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View Full Version : Will the Texans do ANYTHING in Free Agency (excluding Walter and Turk)?


Texans Pride
03-09-2010, 08:37 PM
Just wondering....Silly question...I know!

Carr Bombed
03-09-2010, 08:43 PM
Just wondering....Silly question...I know!

:facepalm:

There's only a bazillion threads this could've been placed in.

To answer your question though....Houston will NEVER sign another FA again...in a 100 years. There I'll start off with the first pessimistic post.

redwhiteANDblue
03-09-2010, 08:45 PM
:facepalm:

There's only a bazillion threads this could've been placed in.

its the off season after all!

Texans Pride
03-09-2010, 08:57 PM
:facepalm:

There's only a bazillion threads this could've been placed in.

To answer your question though....Houston will NEVER sign another FA again...in a 100 years. There I'll start off with the first pessimistic post.

I know there are...I wanted my own, not buried in another.


Thanks for your prompt response though :)

Texans_Chick
03-09-2010, 09:17 PM
Yep, the Bears have now usurped the Redskins in the free agency spending battle. They need to come up with their own Bears' version of this shirt:

http://images.chron.com/blogs/texanschick/RedskinsOffseasonChamps.jpg

It's hard to outspend everyone into the Super Bowl because teams tend to keep their best, non-disgruntled, playing up to their paycheck, hard-working players.

TexansFanatic
03-09-2010, 09:59 PM
Yep, the Bears have now usurped the Redskins in the free agency spending battle. They need to come up with their own Bears' version of this shirt:

http://images.chron.com/blogs/texanschick/RedskinsOffseasonChamps.jpg

It's hard to outspend everyone into the Super Bowl because teams tend to keep their best, non-disgruntled, playing up to their paycheck, hard-working players.

Right on, TC.

Is there a case to be made in the NFL for spending your way to a championship? If so, where has it worked?

If someone could point out the team that has broken the bank during free agency and had a big payoff with the high-dollar roster, I'd like to see it.

Has such a thing happened yet?

I'm not an apologist for the Texans. There are dozens of things I wanted them to do differently from day one.

But it seems to me the proven method of building a winning franchise in the era of free agency is to fill holes with mid-level players and to make a big splash very sparingly.

gtexan02
03-09-2010, 10:06 PM
Right on, TC.

Is there a case to be made in the NFL for spending your way to a championship? If so, where has it worked?

If someone could point out the team that has broken the bank during free agency and had a big payoff with the high-dollar roster, I'd like to see it.

Has such a thing happened yet?

I'm not an apologist for the Texans. There are dozens of things I wanted them to do differently from day one.

But it seems to me the proven method of building a winning franchise in the era of free agency is to fill holes with mid-level players and to make a big splash very sparingly.

Lets see... The New Orleans Saints...

I can think of at least 3 or 4 major acquisitions they've made either through trades or FAs that put them over the top...
Drew Brees
Mike Bell
Jeremy Shockey
Darren Sharper
Jabari Greer
etc

TexansFanatic
03-09-2010, 10:11 PM
Lets see... The New Orleans Saints...

I can think of at least 3 or 4 major acquisitions they've made either through trades or FAs that put them over the top...
Drew Brees
Mike Bell
Jeremy Shockey
Darren Sharper
Jabari Greer
etc

Serious question: Were those high-dollar acquisitions? I recall that Drew Brees didn't attract a lot of attention.

Again, I could be wrong, but would you really classify any of those names as big-splash/high-dollar guys?

Carr Bombed
03-09-2010, 10:14 PM
Lets see... The New Orleans Saints...

I can think of at least 3 or 4 major acquisitions they've made either through trades or FAs that put them over the top...
Drew Brees
Mike Bell
Jeremy Shockey
Darren Sharper
Jabari Greer
etc

I think he was talking about high dollar free agents. NOLA just kicked ass in the front office/draft (well outside of the Jason David signing), but they didn't break the bank.

Thorn
03-09-2010, 10:17 PM
championship teams are built through the draft AND free agency. You can't rely solely on one or the other, and if you are unbalenced on either side, you could have problems. Teams that spend horrific amounts of money in FA quite often don't pan out for the long run, teams that build a base in the draft and get free agents to fill the holes are much better off.

TexansFanatic
03-09-2010, 10:20 PM
I think he was talking about high dollar free agents. NOLA just kicked ass in the front office/draft (well outside of the Jason David signing), but they didn't break the bank.

Technically Shockey wasn't acquired in free agency. But, that was a ballsy move by the Saints. They gave up a second and a fifth for a guy who----let's all admit it----doesn't fit the profile of a Bob McNair player. That worked out.

Darren Sharper was 33 years old, and didn't break the bank. But that worked out.

Yes, the Saints have made moves that make the whole league sit up and pay attention. But they don't really qualify as the "break the bank" acquisitions.

TexansFanatic
03-09-2010, 10:21 PM
Teams that spend horrific amounts of money in FA quite often don't pan out for the long run, teams that build a base in the draft and get free agents to fill the holes are much better off.

Agreed.

And, I think the Texans are doing this.

steelbtexan
03-09-2010, 10:24 PM
Vikings didn't win a championship but got very close

Hutchinson
Favre
Taylor
Winfield
P.Williams
K.Williams
J.Allen

Jets same as above

FA
Faneca Woody, Douglas, Scott, Leonhard,Pace

Trades

Sanchez,Jones,Edwards,Greene,Sheppard

Teams that win make moves in FA/Trades. Teams that dont make moves make excuses.

How would you describe the Texans as an organization?

steelbtexan
03-09-2010, 10:27 PM
Agreed.

And, I think the Texans are doing this.

Really?

What moves?

Texan_Bill
03-09-2010, 10:27 PM
Agreed.

And, I think the Texans are doing this.

http://www.colectiva.tv/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/lkzyz89efm_clap.gif

Texans Pride
03-09-2010, 10:28 PM
Let me clarify, when I asked if the Texans would do anything via FA, I didn't mean just high dollar players....I'd like to see them bring in some quality players that can help this team.

steelbtexan
03-09-2010, 10:29 PM
championship teams are built through the draft AND free agency. You can't rely solely on one or the other, and if you are unbalenced on either side, you could have problems. Teams that spend horrific amounts of money in FA quite often don't pan out for the long run, teams that build a base in the draft and get free agents to fill the holes are much better off.

Yep

This is how the good organizations do it.

The Texans not so much.

TexansFanatic
03-09-2010, 10:29 PM
Vikings didn't win a championship but got very close

Hutchinson
Favre
Taylor
Winfield
P.Williams
K.Williams
J.Allen

Jets same as above

FA
Faneca Woody, Douglas, Scott, Leonhard,Pace

Trades

Sanchez,Jones,Edwards,Greene

Teams that win make moves in FA/Trades. Teams that dont make moves make excuses.

How would you describe the Texans as an organization?

Again, I'm not an apologist for the Texans. And there are things I would have done differently---no question. I'm on record saying the organization should have made a stronger attempt to acquire Cedric Benson. That one really pissed me off.

BUT.....under Smithiak they weren't afraid to give up two second round picks to acquire Schaub. That proved to be a pretty shrewd move.

The hole-filling acquisitions under Smithiak have been above average, to say the least.

The big splash acquisitions are non-existent.

Would I have loved to have seen them throw money at Julius Peppers? You bet.

But I have no argument with the mindset.

gtexan02
03-09-2010, 10:32 PM
You can build a winner through the draft if you consistently excel at drafting quality players.

The Texans have been extremely hit or miss in the draft, seeming to get either pro bowlers or Travis Johnson's.

If you can't draft a position, you have to acquire quality there either through FA or trades.

We have yet to have success with our secondary or our interior defensive line.

axman40
03-09-2010, 10:32 PM
No?

TexansFanatic
03-09-2010, 10:33 PM
Let me clarify, when I asked if the Texans would do anything via FA, I didn't mean just high dollar players....I'd like to see them bring in some quality players that can help this team.

Like Bernard Pollard?

I know, I know. That's one of their few claims to quiet brilliance.

But are we going to ignore the quiet, great moves just so we can ***** about the lack of bold moves?

Texan_Bill
03-09-2010, 10:35 PM
That's all well and good including FA to build a team, but it also matters what the FA crop looks like... This year's FA crop looks like dog shit stuck in between the treads of your tennis shoes..

steelbtexan
03-09-2010, 10:36 PM
No?

LOL

Not anything of consequence.

TexansFanatic
03-09-2010, 10:39 PM
I'm pretty damned pleased that the organization appears to have learned a strong lesson from the Ahman Green fiasco.

No more throwing money at a used up running back. Thank God!

You can find an undrafted free agent 22 year old who will fight for every yard at the league minimum who will do just as well if not MUCH better than a 33-year-old, washed-up, semi-star back.

steelbtexan
03-09-2010, 10:42 PM
Like Bernard Pollard?

I know, I know. That's one of their few claims to quiet brilliance.

But are we going to ignore the quiet, great moves just so we can ***** about the lack of bold moves?

They got luck that the Chiefs were stupid enough to cut Pollard. Even then they waited 2 weeks to sign him. They only signed him after Barber Screwed up the C.Johnson long receiving TD.

Name one impact player that has been signed by the Texans in FA. ?

Not street FA's.

steelbtexan
03-09-2010, 10:44 PM
That's all well and good including FA to build a team, but it also matters what the FA crop looks like... This year's FA crop looks like dog shit stuck in between the treads of your tennis shoes..

We agree about this FA class.

Although there were some vet FA RB's that could make an impact.

Taylor,T.Jones and LT for example.

Ole Miss Texan
03-09-2010, 10:47 PM
I think we're going to see Smith pick up some players that get cut from other teams. Often fans think these players are scrubs, but good players are cut all the time. One example, in this uncapped year, are those players earning high $'s and the team wants to save. We've seen players get released already that were due bonuses by a certain date. Around draft time and camp time, teams will have a better idea of the players they have and where to save/spend money.

Carr Bombed
03-09-2010, 10:48 PM
They got luck that the Chiefs were stupid enough to cut Pollard. Even then they waited 2 weeks to sign him. They only signed him after Barber Screwed up the C.Johnson long receiving TD.

Name one impact player that has been signed by the Texans in FA. ?

Not street FA's.

Kevin Walter

And who cares how and why Pollard got here and became a starter.... That's just nitpicking, you think Cardinal fans were upset at their front office/coaching staff for not signing Warner to a huge deal and starting him from the get go after he became such a surprise for them...

Fact is, the dude (Pollard) was a FA they signed and he more than made his fair share of plays for them. Andre Daivs also made plays his first year here....signing him to another contract was the mistake.

CloakNNNdagger
03-09-2010, 10:50 PM
championship teams are built through the draft AND free agency. You can't rely solely on one or the other, and if you are unbalenced on either side, you could have problems. Teams that spend horrific amounts of money in FA quite often don't pan out for the long run, teams that build a base in the draft and get free agents to fill the holes are much better off.


Even though change doesn't necessarily assure progress, progress does not occur without change. As Thomas Edison once said, "Restlessness and discontent are the first necessities of progress." However, over the years as I see it, the only response of restlessness and discontent has been demonstrated by the fans................ 8 years and counting.

Carr Bombed
03-09-2010, 10:50 PM
I think we're going to see Smith pick up some players that get cut from other teams. Often fans think these players are scrubs, but good players are cut all the time. One example, in this uncapped year, are those players earning high $'s and the team wants to save. We've seen players get released already that were due bonuses by a certain date. Around draft time and camp time, teams will have a better idea of the players they have and where to save/spend money.

Keith Bulluck might be one of those players and I wouldn't be upset at all if Houston signed him. Sometimes the best thing is to let teams blow their wad out of the gate and then you're able to pick up key signings later in FA.

steelbtexan
03-09-2010, 10:56 PM
I think we're going to see Smith pick up some players that get cut from other teams. Often fans think these players are scrubs, but good players are cut all the time. One example, in this uncapped year, are those players earning high $'s and the team wants to save. We've seen players get released already that were due bonuses by a certain date. Around draft time and camp time, teams will have a better idea of the players they have and where to save/spend money.

I hope you're right.

Texan_Bill
03-09-2010, 11:00 PM
We agree about this FA class.

Although there were some vet FA RB's that could make an impact.

Taylor,T.Jones and LT for example.

While I don't wanna split hairs, 'cause I'm old and fixin to hit the hay... Those running backs were 30+. A) We've seen that before (Ahman Green), B) When it's over for RB's, it's generally over. They tend to drop off quickly... Would I like LT or Thomas Jones a Texan?? Hellz yeah!! As a complimentary back - YES!!

*EDIT*
I'm out for tonight

steelbtexan
03-09-2010, 11:02 PM
Kevin Walter

And who cares how and why Pollard got here and became a starter.... That's just nitpicking, you think Cardinal fans were upset at their front office/coaching staff for not signing Warner to a huge deal and starting him from the get go after he became such a surprise for them...

Fact is, the dude (Pollard) was a FA they signed and he more than made his fair share of plays for them. Andre Daivs also made plays his first year here....signing him to another contract was the mistake.

Forgot about Walter.

If they had picked up Pollard as soon as he got cut I would have given them some slack. Even though they were very lucky Pollard became available.

The fact that they didn't sign Pollard until after week 2 and he didn't start playing till week 4 and IMHO this cost the Texans a playoff spot takes any of the Kudos Smith would be getting away.

Kaiser Toro
03-09-2010, 11:14 PM
At least they're not apathetic. So we've got that going for us.

steelbtexan
03-09-2010, 11:28 PM
While I don't wanna split hairs, 'cause I'm old and fixin to hit the hay... Those running backs were 30+. A) We've seen that before (Ahman Green), B) When it's over for RB's, it's generally over. They tend to drop off quickly... Would I like LT or Thomas Jones a Texan?? Hellz yeah!! As a complimentary back - YES!!

*EDIT*
I'm out for tonight

A Jones and Hardesty in the 3rd would be a great Tandem. IMHO

Give me Fargas and Hardesty. They wouid be alot like Jones and Greene were for the Jets last year.

Although Huggy Bear Jr is 30 he doesn't have alot of miles on him.

Ole Miss Texan
03-09-2010, 11:29 PM
Here's some offseason moves the Texans have done since Kubiak has been here (free agents and restricted free agents). Good and/or bad, just naming some:

1. Traded two 2nd round picks for Matt Schaub - 6 years $48MM
2. Traded a 7th round pick for Kevin Walter - re-signed for 5 years $21.5MM
2. Traded a 5th round pick for Eric Moulds - 4 years $14MM
3. Traded a 6th round pick for Chris Myers - 4 years $11MM

FA Antonio Smith - 5 years $35.5MM
FA Anthony Weaver - 5 years $26.5MM
FA Ahman Green - 4 years $23MM
FA Jacques Reeves - 5 years $20MM
FA Andre Davis - re-signed for 4 years $16MM
FA Eugene Wilson - 3 years $11.3MM

Matched NY's offer for Vonta Leach (previously FA) - 4 years $8MM
Matched Denver's offer for David Anderson (previously FA) - 3 years $4.5MM

And I'd be remiss if I didn't mention we outbid every other team for Ron Dayne.

steelbtexan
03-09-2010, 11:36 PM
Here's some offseason moves the Texans have done since Kubiak has been here (free agents and restricted free agents). Good and/or bad, just naming some:

1. Traded two 2nd round picks for Matt Schaub - 6 years $48MM
2. Traded a 7th round pick for Kevin Walter - re-signed for 5 years $21.5MM
2. Traded a 5th round pick for Eric Moulds - 4 years $14MM
3. Traded a 6th round pick for Chris Myers - 4 years $11MM

FA Antonio Smith - 5 years $35.5MM
FA Anthony Weaver - 5 years $26.5MM
FA Ahman Green - 4 years $23MM
FA Jacques Reeves - 5 years $20MM
FA Andre Davis - re-signed for 4 years $16MM
FA Eugene Wilson - 3 years $11.3MM

Matched NY's offer for Vonta Leach (previously FA) - 4 years $8MM
Matched Denver's offer for David Anderson (previously FA) - 3 years $4.5MM

And I'd be remiss if I didn't mention we outbid every other team for Ron Dayne.

We can see why the Texans are making such slow progress looking at that list.

Allstar
03-09-2010, 11:48 PM
I'm surprised no one has brought up the misspelling of "Walter"

Kaiser Toro
03-09-2010, 11:52 PM
I'm surprised no one has brought up the misspelling of "Walter"

It happens so often, that it is just a known and folks move on. But it does look sloppy in the title. Thanks, will edit.

Second Honeymoon
03-10-2010, 12:21 AM
Even though change doesn't necessarily assure progress, progress does not occur without change. As Thomas Edison once said, "Restlessness and discontent are the first necessities of progress." However, over the years as I see it, the only response of restlessness and discontent has been demonstrated by the fans................ 8 years and counting.

leave it to a surgeon to bring the knowledge from the golden age of invention

anytime you can bring a quote from Edison into football talk, its a total win

Second Honeymoon
03-10-2010, 12:29 AM
A Jones and Hardesty in the 3rd would be a great Tandem. IMHO

Give me Fargas and Hardesty. They wouid be alot like Jones and Greene were for the Jets last year.

Although Huggy Bear Jr is 30 he doesn't have alot of miles on him.

Just Say No To Fargas

I'd be good with LT or even Parker over Fargas

If what Ole Man McClain is saying is true, we probably won't make a move for a FA RB. They will look to get some young backs in via draft and UDFA and see who hits the hole the fastest and wants to be an NFL back. Occassionally you can find lightning in a bottle that way but I would really prefer having an established and proven veteran to start the season, especially when the $$ rate for the older RBs is so relatively inexpensive to fill.

LT would look good carrying the rock for us while we try and find someone to fill the spot long term. Slaton isn't that guy. Foster isn't that guy. Moats isn't that guy. I don't want to rely on a rookie RB to be 'that guy' this year.

I also think LT would bring some needed experience and leadership to the locker room...and he can pick up the blitz and that is the most important thing when you have Schaub at QB. Matt is my guy 100% but we can't afford to let other teams take free shots on him like Moats, Slaton, and Foster all allowed at various points of hte season last year. AJ is our best player, but without Matt, AJ is almost wasted. Matt was MVP offense last year imho and Cushing MVP defense.

ObsiWan
03-10-2010, 07:51 AM
I'd like Pierre Thomas or Mike Bell - should the Saints be stupid enough to let either of them walk.

El Tejano
03-10-2010, 08:30 AM
I would like to get the lineman that we've shown interest in. Something that says we are trying to win right now. I'm getting tired of being fed this "for the future" crap.

HuttoKarl
03-10-2010, 09:34 AM
Lets see... The New Orleans Saints...

I can think of at least 3 or 4 major acquisitions they've made either through trades or FAs that put them over the top...
Drew Brees
Mike Bell
Jeremy Shockey
Darren Sharper
Jabari Greer
etc

Most of those guys had issues when the Saints took them. I don't know if any of them are uber-paid.

Shockey wore out his welcome as a Giant because not only was he a knucklehead, he was hurt.

Nobody came after Brees because he just had a surgically repaired throwing shoulder.

Mike Bell pretty much didn't do anything outside of Denver...remember his illustrious Texans career. He's not a huge moneymaker either.

Greer...nice CB but he didn't command a huge paycheck from the Saints when he signed.

Sharper is 34 years old. He fit their system. He just had knee surgery. He signed a one year deal with the Saints last year...

Basically, they didn't throw money at the big name free agents. They took chances on players and those players panned out. Tom Benson's not spending like Dan Snyder or Jerry Jones.

Rick Smith? Got Schaub. Took a chance on Pollard. Got decent play out of DelJuan Robinson and Zgonina. Drafted some nice players (looking past his propensity to draft TE's though). There's still some work to do, but your Saints championship team got players that weren't first or second choices for other teams. That's probably the right call to make.

TexanSam
03-10-2010, 09:41 AM
Right on, TC.

Is there a case to be made in the NFL for spending your way to a championship? If so, where has it worked?

If someone could point out the team that has broken the bank during free agency and had a big payoff with the high-dollar roster, I'd like to see it.

Has such a thing happened yet?


The only example I can think of is the 1994 49ers.

HuttoKarl
03-10-2010, 09:43 AM
I gotta stop posting before reading a whole thread...most of my points were already made. :wild:

Anyway....

I'd like us to bring in Ben Hamilton from the Broncs, I thought about Bly as a stopgap CB, William Gay and Brodney Pool (Gay is restricted, and I'm not positive on what he'd cost us if signed) as young DB's.

I don't think we're done trying by any means. Bodden would have been a welcome addition, but it wasn't meant to be.

HuttoKarl
03-10-2010, 09:44 AM
The only example I can think of is the 1994 49ers.

That was such a different era. Cowboys and Niners spending whatever they needed to in order to absolutely crush everyone else.

El Tejano
03-10-2010, 10:04 AM
The answer to the original question is no, excluding the fact that they will sign back up players to lucrative deals.

steelbtexan
03-10-2010, 11:16 AM
Most of those guys had issues when the Saints took them. I don't know if any of them are uber-paid.

Shockey wore out his welcome as a Giant because not only was he a knucklehead, he was hurt.

Nobody came after Brees because he just had a surgically repaired throwing shoulder.

Mike Bell pretty much didn't do anything outside of Denver...remember his illustrious Texans career. He's not a huge moneymaker either.

Greer...nice CB but he didn't command a huge paycheck from the Saints when he signed.

Sharper is 34 years old. He fit their system. He just had knee surgery. He signed a one year deal with the Saints last year...

Basically, they didn't throw money at the big name free agents. They took chances on players and those players panned out. Tom Benson's not spending like Dan Snyder or Jerry Jones.

Rick Smith? Got Schaub. Took a chance on Pollard. Got decent play out of DelJuan Robinson and Zgonina. Drafted some nice players (looking past his propensity to draft TE's though). There's still some work to do, but your Saints championship team got players that weren't first or second choices for other teams. That's probably the right call to make.

Lets see

1.Brees slightly better than Schaub
2. Bell > than any RB on the Texans roster last year
3. Shockey > than OD Eight games dont make a season, Shockey contributed the entire season
4. Sharper=Pollard They were both difference maker on their teams.
5. Greer>Robinson It's sad that Dunta got 10 mil for 1 yr, while the Saints locked up Greer for 4 yrs 22 mil. Smith compounded this mistake by not signing Bodden to a reasonable deal this offseason.
6. Hargrove > Del Robinson Hargrove was better than any DT on the Texans.
7.McCray = Barwin Both added depth and playmaking abilities at DE. Barwin has more upside.

You're right about the Saints not over paying. They made some shrewed moves and laid the character issues aside (Shockey,McCray, Hargrove) and won rings. Meanwhile the Texans are still hoping for their 1st playoff appearance.

Loomis and Payton took Smithiak to the wood shed in both personel decisions and on field gameday decisions. IMHO Otherwise if the Talent level is as close as people on this MB say it is between the two teams the Texans should've atleast made the playoffs.

infantrycak
03-10-2010, 11:34 AM
Lets see

1.Brees slightly better than Schaub
2. Bell > than any RB on the Texans roster last year
3. Shockey > than OD Eight games dont make a season, Shockey contributed the entire season
4. Sharper=Pollard They were both difference maker on their teams.
5. Greer>Robinson It's sad that Dunta got 10 mil for 1 yr, while the Saints locked up Greer for 4 yrs 22 mil. Smith compounded this mistake by not signing Bodden to a reasonable deal this offseason.
6. Hargrove > Del Robinson Hargrove was better than any DT on the Texans.
7.McCray = Barwin Both added depth and playmaking abilities at DE. Barwin has more upside.

You left out Reeves, Smith and Jason David
The Texans made the Bell move first and prior to all the difficulties at the position.
Totally unfair to call Shockey better than OD or a more shrewd move based on injury. Shockey has been injured every year of his 9 year career. Missing 8 games OD out performed him since Shockey got to the Saints to the tune of 1381 yds v. 1052 and 7 TD's to 3 TDs. Shockey has only missed one less game over the last two seasons by the way.
Greer, Reeves and Dunta are all in the same talent ballpark.
They didn't just get Barwin, they got Smith.
You also fail to mention the failure on the Jason David signing.

HuttoKarl
03-10-2010, 11:56 AM
You left out Reeves, Smith and Jason David
The Texans made the Bell move first and prior to all the difficulties at the position.
Totally unfair to call Shockey better than OD or a more shrewd move based on injury. Shockey has been injured every year of his 9 year career. Missing 8 games OD out performed him since Shockey got to the Saints to the tune of 1381 yds v. 1052 and 7 TD's to 3 TDs. Shockey has only missed one less game over the last two seasons by the way.
Greer, Reeves and Dunta are all in the same talent ballpark.
They didn't just get Barwin, they got Smith.
You also fail to mention the failure on the Jason David signing.

And the ONE time the Saints and Texans met in the Kubiak v. Payton era, the Texans won...no mention of that. Small victory, but a victory nonetheless.

The fans here complaining the loudest are complaining that we didn't sign Peppers or Taylor (who I would have loved to get) or trade for Boldin...they're complaining while saying "LOOKIT WUT THE SAINTS DONE!!!" when the Saints didn't sign any Peppers types either.

steelbtexan
03-10-2010, 12:15 PM
You're right I forgot about Smith, David,and Reeves

Smith and McCray are about = with a slight edge going to Smith. IMO

Greer is > than Reeves and Dunta IMO The reason he was available was because he was injury prone. Last year hw stayed healthy and played at a very high level.

But if the Texans and Saints are = in the FO moves department and talent level why is it the Saints won a SB and the Texans didn't make the playoffs?

Maybe your overrating the talent that Smith aquired making these moves. Or maybe the coaching staff isn't as good as the Saints is?

Injuries played a part but both teams had injuries. The Saints lost all-pro LT Jamal Brown and their yong stud DT Ellis for a long time. I can pnly imagine the excuses that would be made on this MB if D.Brown was lost for the season. But Payton put this behind him replaced Brown and won a SB.

We lose OD for half a season and that's the reason we didn't make the playoffs.

steelbtexan
03-10-2010, 12:24 PM
And the ONE time the Saints and Texans met in the Kubiak v. Payton era, the Texans won...no mention of that. Small victory, but a victory nonetheless.

The fans here complaining the loudest are complaining that we didn't sign Peppers or Taylor (who I would have loved to get) or trade for Boldin...they're complaining while saying "LOOKIT WUT THE SAINTS DONE!!!" when the Saints didn't sign any Peppers types either.

No I'm just asking the ? If the Texans FO did as good a job as the Saints and our coacing staff is as good as the Saints why did the Saints win a SB and the Texans didn't make the playoffs? Maybe we overrate Smithiak on this MB.

Dont say injuries because both teams lost key players to injury and in the Saints case suspension.

BTW I didn't expect McNair to sign Peppers. Although that would've been nice.

I wanted them to sign Taylor but it appears that Smith is going to aquire a front line RB through the draft. I dont want to hear about a rookie RB struggling in pass pro. Hopefully they pick up a vrt RB on the cheap in FA. So he can show the rookie RB the ropes in the NFL.

HuttoKarl
03-10-2010, 12:24 PM
I hate to say it, but the NFC South is a weaker division by far than the AFC South no matter how you slice it.

badboy
03-10-2010, 12:26 PM
Even though change doesn't necessarily assure progress, progress does not occur without change. As Thomas Edison once said, "Restlessness and discontent are the first necessities of progress." However, over the years as I see it, the only response of restlessness and discontent has been demonstrated by the fans................ 8 years and counting.Edison also said "Let there be light" and Reliant Stadium was born given Mr. McNair more income. Every month, I pay my eletricity bill and consider myself keeping Bob out of the poor house. He calls me occasionally just to say thanks.

dalemurphy
03-10-2010, 12:26 PM
Lets see

3. Shockey > than OD Eight games dont make a season, Shockey contributed the entire season
.

Perhaps you should reconsider this comment. It's utterly ridiculous!

Owen Daniels vs. Jeremy Shockey
2007: 63 for 768 57 for 619
2008: 70 for 862 vs. 50 for 483
2009: 40 for 519 vs. 48 for 569

Owen Daniels is much younger and his career is on the upswing while Jeremy Shockey is on the backside of his career. By the way, Houston got OD for a 4th round pick while it cost N.O Saints a 2nd and a 5th.

HuttoKarl
03-10-2010, 12:28 PM
Perhaps you should reconsider this comment. It's utterly ridiculous!

Owen Daniels vs. Jeremy Shockey
2007: 63 for 768 57 for 619
2008: 70 for 862 vs. 50 for 483
2009: 40 for 519 vs. 48 for 569

Owen Daniels is much younger and his career is on the upswing while Jeremy Shockey is on the backside of his career. By the way, Houston got OD for a 4th round pick while it cost N.O Saints a 2nd and a 5th.

But OD doesn't have a huge awesome Eagle Tattoo.

steelbtexan
03-10-2010, 12:35 PM
I can go along with that. But I consider the Panthers and the Falcons to be the = of the Tacks and Jags. TB and Detroit were the only layup games on the Saints schedule last year.

But didn't our schedule include the NFC West this year? Rams,Seahawks and 49ers were atrocious.

Along with the Raiders and Bills, Jags and we caught the Tacks early before they were a good team.

It's not going to be that easy next year.

The Saints had to play the NFC east this past year and the NFC North.

Iwould submit that the Saints had the harder schedule last year.

Ole Miss Texan
03-10-2010, 12:37 PM
Perhaps you should reconsider this comment. It's utterly ridiculous!

Owen Daniels vs. Jeremy Shockey
2007: 63 for 768 57 for 619
2008: 70 for 862 vs. 50 for 483
2009: 40 for 519 vs. 48 for 569

Owen Daniels is much younger and his career is on the upswing while Jeremy Shockey is on the backside of his career. By the way, Houston got OD for a 4th round pick while it cost N.O Saints a 2nd and a 5th.

And Daniels was picked up in the 4th round of the draft where the Saints traded 2 picks (2nd round and late round?) for Shockey.

Mike Bell? Is he being included as a great offseason pick up for the Saints? LOL

dalemurphy
03-10-2010, 12:44 PM
And Daniels was picked up in the 4th round of the draft where the Saints traded 2 picks (2nd round and late round?) for Shockey.

Mike Bell? Is he being included as a great offseason pick up for the Saints? LOL

Bell was so good that they didn't tender him. He's a FA now drawing very little interest. We can all agree that the Texans screwed up by relying too much on Slaton and then Chris Brown as his backup... That screw up doesn't say too much about the Saints though. Bell's success says more about the excellent interior line of the Saints, IMO... now, that interior line is something I hope the Texans emulate!

steelbtexan
03-10-2010, 12:49 PM
Perhaps you should reconsider this comment. It's utterly ridiculous!

Owen Daniels vs. Jeremy Shockey
2007: 63 for 768 57 for 619
2008: 70 for 862 vs. 50 for 483
2009: 40 for 519 vs. 48 for 569

Owen Daniels is much younger and his career is on the upswing while Jeremy Shockey is on the backside of his career. By the way, Houston got OD for a 4th round pick while it cost N.O Saints a 2nd and a 5th.

Shockey stayed healthy an contributed to his team all season OD didn't.

There's more to playing TE than catching passes. Shockey is a better blocker than OD. BTW OD was part of the problem in the run game during the 8 games he played last year. If OD was a great blocker Smith wouldn't have draft A.Hill in the 4th rd.

I'm not going to change your mind but do think they would've spent a 4th on Hill when they needed a RB badly. If Smith was happy with OD's all around performance?

This is why I could see the Texans letting OD go after this season. They're grooming Casey to take over OD's pass catchig TE role.

It will be a mistake to let OD go. IMHO

Second Honeymoon
03-10-2010, 12:49 PM
Bell was so good that they didn't tender him. He's a FA now drawing very little interest. We can all agree that the Texans screwed up by relying too much on Slaton and then Chris Brown as his backup... That screw up doesn't say too much about the Saints though. Bell's success says more about the excellent interior line of the Saints, IMO... now, that interior line is something I hope the Texans emulate!

good luck. due to McNair being cheap errrr frugal, we will be spending picks that could be used to fix our long-neglected Center position on RB and CB...both of which could have been filled by pretty reasonably priced FAs such as Taylor, Jones, Tomlinson and Bodden.

DM, I really want to get that interior line fixed but there are only so many draft picks that we have and Center may be left neglected...yet again.

Chris Myers is the worst OL in the history of the Texans....except for Victor Riley. That guy was an effen bum.

GP
03-10-2010, 12:56 PM
No I'm just asking the ? If the Texans FO did as good a job as the Saints and our coacing staff is as good as the Saints why did the Saints win a SB and the Texans didn't make the playoffs? Maybe we overrate Smithiak on this MB.

Dont say injuries because both teams lost key players to injury and in the Saints case suspension.

BTW I didn't expect McNair to sign Peppers. Although that would've been nice.

I wanted them to sign Taylor but it appears that Smith is going to aquire a front line RB through the draft. I dont want to hear about a rookie RB struggling in pass pro. Hopefully they pick up a vrt RB on the cheap in FA. So he can show the rookie RB the ropes in the NFL.

Anybody who is thinking we're grabbing a RB in round 1, or probably even round 2, is only setting themselves up for huge disappointment.

Since we didn't sign Taylor, nor Jones, now I see a lot of people thinking that it points towards Smithiak going RB to get that guy.

I think that's us trying to assuage our fears.

People better stop having this pipe-dream that we'll add a known commodity at RB. We'll head into 2010 with Foster, Moats, and possibly Slaton as a sort-of/kind-of/maybe chance IF he heals properly and can find his rookie form from two years ago. Chris Brown can't possibly make this team--I don't have much faith in Kubiak, but I have enough to say that he will cut Chris Brown at some point, maybe during camp or preseason at the latest.

RBs will be: Foster, Moats, iffy-Slaton, and one or two guys who will NOT be drafted in round 1 or 2. I seriously think Kubiak is THAT serious about his chances of finding another guy in late rounds or even UDFA (or TC cuts, ets.)

We're going to add strength on either the OL, the DL, or secondary, in rounds 1 and 2. And the obligatory TE in rounds 3 or 4.

Look guys: We re-signed Walter. What does that say? It says Smithiak feels safe at WR with what we have. We're good at starting QB. TE is iffy, and might be the only spot I'd see us making a dramatic move in round 1 or 2. If so, bye-bye Owen Daniels--Writing on the wall.

We all know that the Denver system produces very little early round RBs (Please spare me the Clinton Portis example--And you guys know who you are. Who else, over the past decade has the Denver system drafted for RB in round 1? Or 2, for that matter?) So we ain't taking a guy in round 1 or 2 for RB. That leaves OL as the only offensive position crew that would get round 1 or 2 treatment. And we have lots of statements from Smithiak about how we have to get tougher and stronger and better "in the trenches." Pitts also makes the OL a very likely candidate for round 1 or 2.

On defense, I am a bit confused about how some people on here are saying that maybe McNair or Smithiak met with Bodden and didn't like what they saw (that's over in the thread in the NFL section). Uh, they DID like what they saw. They liked it so much that they wined and dined him--And then couldn't make it happen on the financial aspects of the deal. It has the same vibe as the Cedric Benson situation: It was a "need" position, and the guy was going to be at least somewhat useful to us, but gosh darn it he just asked for too much money. Oh well.

So now we have a need for a better CB, a better RB, some help on the OL, and that brings me to DL. We need a workhorse at DT, and The Nigerian Wet Dream is not that workhorse. We need a 3-4 NT type of guy at DT who wants to live life like Seth Payne lived it for the Texans: Eating up double-teams and even finding a way to beat those double-teams every now and then. Amobi gets doubled, but he does nothing with it, IMO. I'm also slightly perturbed at Mario Williams while I'm on a roll here. He better come into his own this season. Or Jamie Dukes is going to be proven right.

CB, RB, OL (most likely C and/or G), DT, and quasi-needs at TE and S.

Sorry to be a Doug Downer here, but we could have wiped out CB and RB off that list. That would have made THIS fan a lot more enthusiastic about the upcoming draft. I just think the owner and Smithiak put themselves in a deeper hole by not going after, and securing, Bodden and Jones.

Just my take on it.

BigBull17
03-10-2010, 12:57 PM
good luck. due to McNair being cheap errrr frugal, we will be spending picks that could be used to fix our long-neglected Center position on RB and CB...both of which could have been filled by pretty reasonably priced FAs such as Taylor, Jones, Tomlinson and Bodden.

DM, I really want to get that interior line fixed but there are only so many draft picks that we have and Center may be left neglected...yet again.

Chris Myers is the worst OL in the history of the Texans....except for Victor Riley. That guy was an effen bum.

I have fought the "McNair is cheap" crowd all offseason, but now I can't. Two need positions we have let go over next to pocket change. Thomas Jones making 2.5 million a year? WHTF were'nt we all over that? Makes you sick a little. I wanted to get those two done so we could really look at BPA, as I think thats how you win, but nope. We'll have to reach a few times cause we got nada at positions. This shit has pissed me the **** off.

steelbtexan
03-10-2010, 12:58 PM
I'm not saying Bell was a great FA pickup. But he and another UDFA pickup (Hamilton) was better than any RB on the Texans roster this season.

When Thomas went down these guys picked up the slack. When Slaton went down who picked up the slack on the Texans.

This is just another example of the Saints FO schooling the Texans FO.

The thing is hopefully the Texans FO learned a few things by seeing how the Saints conduct their business.

So far it doesn't look promising that the Texans FO has learned anything.

El Tejano
03-10-2010, 01:06 PM
Chris Myers is the worst OL in the history of the Texans....except for Victor Riley. That guy was an effen bum.

There is no way you can't include Seth Wand's name in that list.

Texan_Bill
03-10-2010, 01:10 PM
Mike Bell was so impressive that we cut him. :kitten:

Second Honeymoon
03-10-2010, 01:11 PM
I have fought the "McNair is cheap" crowd all offseason, but now I can't. Two need positions we have let go over next to pocket change. Thomas Jones making 2.5 million a year? WHTF were'nt we all over that? Makes you sick a little. I wanted to get those two done so we could really look at BPA, as I think thats how you win, but nope. We'll have to reach a few times cause we got nada at positions. This shit has pissed me the **** off.

of course it has pissed you off, that is because you care and you know what our team needs are and you aren't so naive to think that the team is just going to magically improve. anyone who is happy with the way this offseason is going is a total freaking moron. period. you don't have to be disappointed but if your happy with what the Texans have done or more effectively not done, I repeat, you are a total freaking moron.

you have to spend money to improve. last time i checked, the Patriots don't spend crazy money on players and yet we weren't willing to pay a higher rate than them in order to address needs. 2 separate players and the same outcome. One owner wants to win the other owner wants to have windfall profits. Guess which one is Kraft and which one is McNair.

Scoreboard Kraft 2 - McNair 0.

the only way this FA offseason is uprighted is if we go the veteran route and go out and pay Darren Sharper and LaDanian Tomlinson. Everyone else is pretty much gone that doesn't cost draft picks. Just sad sad sad that we can't even address critical needs because our franchise is too cheap to pay fair market value. We aren't talking Peppers/Haynesworth-type deals here.

Maybe players and/or agents are turned off by McNair being one of the strong arming owners who looks to be forcing a lockout and a major rollback on player's percentages of the pie. I don't know. I am looking for answers but its either they are nickel and diming or players don't want to come here or both. Probably both.

what a total joke this FA offseason has been. thank god we at least kept Walter. I would have to say we are having the worst FA offseason of any team besides Arizona. Oh man, that team is just hemorraghing players left and right. I think they have lost 5 starters so far. Wow. At least we aren't them but they have probably the worst owner in football in Bidwell. Bidwell makes Bud look like Bob Kraft.

dalemurphy
03-10-2010, 01:15 PM
good luck. due to McNair being cheap errrr frugal, we will be spending picks that could be used to fix our long-neglected Center position on RB and CB...both of which could have been filled by pretty reasonably priced FAs such as Taylor, Jones, Tomlinson and Bodden.

DM, I really want to get that interior line fixed but there are only so many draft picks that we have and Center may be left neglected...yet again.

Chris Myers is the worst OL in the history of the Texans....except for Victor Riley. That guy was an effen bum.

I'm not a Myers guy but that is an awfully bold statement. You've basicly put Myers in a group with my Aunt and my three-legged dog.

By the way, I'm still hopeful we get Wade Smith. He's pretty solid, I think. Then, maybe we retain Pitts and he's at least 80% of what he was. if those things happen (at least one of them), a pick in the first 4 rounds... all of sudden, it looks a lot better! Wait until May to panic. That's when I usually begin to panic. Last year, I went psychotic over the safety position after the draft and until Pollard was signed. That seemed to work well. For now, let's do some meditation. You can use my chant if you want: "Cuuuussshhing". Just visualize and repeat until you are totally at peace with the football world.

Second Honeymoon
03-10-2010, 01:17 PM
There is no way you can't include Seth Wand's name in that list.

I'd take Wand over Myers. Myers is a worthless pile of warm garbage masquerading as a football player. He played for the Broncos though, so he is Jesus in cleats to Rickiak.

dalemurphy
03-10-2010, 01:18 PM
Shockey stayed healthy an contributed to his team all season OD didn't.

There's more to playing TE than catching passes. Shockey is a better blocker than OD. BTW OD was part of the problem in the run game during the 8 games he played last year. If OD was a great blocker Smith wouldn't have draft A.Hill in the 4th rd.

I'm not going to change your mind but do think they would've spent a 4th on Hill when they needed a RB badly. If Smith was happy with OD's all around performance?

This is why I could see the Texans letting OD go after this season. They're grooming Casey to take over OD's pass catchig TE role.

It will be a mistake to let OD go. IMHO

He played all season and barely matched OD's stats in half the games. I agree that OD was disappointing as a blocker last year. Though, I was impressed with his blocking in the second half of '08. Regardless, though, I doubt you could find a GM that would rather have Jeremy Shockey instead of OD.

Perhaps you are right about the Texans' plans to replace him. However, it's no more telling of OD's abilities than the Giants being so eager to replace Shockey with Voss a few years ago.

steelbtexan
03-10-2010, 01:20 PM
Carolina is also having a terrible offseason.

Speaking of that Ken Lucas could be a late offseason addition.

Dont know if Lucas has anything left though.

Second Honeymoon
03-10-2010, 01:20 PM
I'm not a Myers guy but that is an awfully bold statement. You've basicly put Myers in a group with my Aunt and my three-legged dog.

By the way, I'm still hopeful we get Wade Smith. He's pretty solid, I think. Then, maybe we retain Pitts and he's at least 80% of what he was. if those things happen (at least one of them), a pick in the first 4 rounds... all of sudden, it looks a lot better! Wait until May to panic. That's when I usually begin to panic. Last year, I went psychotic over the safety position after the draft and until Pollard was signed. That seemed to work well. For now, let's do some meditation. You can use my chant if you want: "Cuuuussshhing". Just visualize and repeat until you are totally at peace with the football world.

oh, don't get me wrong. Cushing made last year's failures palatable. guy played hurt, played with intensity, played with passion, played to win. Basically everything our team has been missing. Love that guy. If he can become our Ray Lewis and get in people's faces and demand effort (yeah, I am talking to you, Mario and Antonio and Okoye) we could see some more improvement and production.

i am not too geeked up about the draft because yeah, our team will improve but so will everyone elses. FA is where you can make up ground and address holes in your lineup so that you can have a better chance at finding draftees to fill your holes. The less holes you have, the more selective you can become in the draft.

but i will try the 'cuuuuushing' method and see where it takes me.

Texan_Bill
03-10-2010, 01:20 PM
DeMingo Graham, Cameron Spikes and Jimmy Herndon ???

CloakNNNdagger
03-10-2010, 01:23 PM
Edison also said "Let there be light" and Reliant Stadium was born given Mr. McNair more income. Every month, I pay my eletricity bill and consider myself keeping Bob out of the poor house. He calls me occasionally just to say thanks.

Reliant Energy tried to negotiate with me to get me back. I was hoping I could get things done with Reliant and just move on. After hours with back and forth parlaying, Uncle Bob offered me an on the spot guaranteed signing bonus of $100 and a 3-year $900 a month contract, stating that this was the best he was able to offer due to cap limits he had to strictly adhere to. Thanking him and telling him that I would be pondering his "generous" offer, I left his office without signing a contract. Returning to the table with my current Stream Energy, I let them know that I was in negotiations with Uncle Bob directly, but this was business. What could they offer to "make it happen"? They upped the guaranteed bonus substantially and threw in 2 season tickets for the Texans at a 50% discount...........and now I'm back with Stream.:tiphat:

Second Honeymoon
03-10-2010, 01:23 PM
DeMingo Graham, Cameron Spikes and Jimmy Herndon ???

ok, the worst starting OL in Texans history. we are entering Year 3 of Myers at Center.

I just puked in my mouth a little.

steelbtexan
03-10-2010, 01:32 PM
He played all season and barely matched OD's stats in half the games. I agree that OD was disappointing as a blocker last year. Though, I was impressed with his blocking in the second half of '08. Regardless, though, I doubt you could find a GM that would rather have Jeremy Shockey instead of OD.

Perhaps you are right about the Texans' plans to replace him. However, it's no more telling of OD's abilities than the Giants being so eager to replace Shockey with Voss a few years ago.

The reason Shockey doesn't have more catches is Brees spreads the ball around more.

I wouldn't trade OD for Shockey

But if a team offered me a 2nd and a 3rd rd pick I would take it. Because I have this feeling McNair is going to let OD walk after this season.

BTW How would you feel if Ryans isn't re-upped some time this year? I dont see this happening either.

Ole Miss Texan
03-10-2010, 01:58 PM
I understand saying a player has to stay healthy and stay on the field or else they're not useful to the team... but to say that Shockey was a better pick up than Daniels b/c one stayed healthy and one didn't is insane. It would be different if Daniels had chronic injury issues and was a risk, but it was a freak injury that put him out. Injuries are part of the game but in this case it doesn't make the case that the Saints were smarter than the Texans.

Daniels I can see them playing the waiting game on. Demeco on the otherhand, I think they really need to re-sign him as soon as possible. Signing unrestricted free agents has a little more urgency to it, but I hope they get something done for Demeco before the season. I think if they really play hardball it can send the wrong message to the other players and potential free agents for us. Demeco came in and way overperformed his contract, is playing as a top 5 LB and deserves to be paid by one. Gotta take care of the players you draft that turn out great and make them longterm fixtures on this team. Andre is most likely a life long Texan, let's make Demeco one too.

dalemurphy
03-10-2010, 02:03 PM
The reason Shockey doesn't have more catches is Brees spreads the ball around more.

I wouldn't trade OD for Shockey

But if a team offered me a 2nd and a 3rd rd pick I would take it. Because I have this feeling McNair is going to let OD walk after this season.

BTW How would you feel if Ryans isn't re-upped some time this year? I dont see this happening either.

I'd be very upset! Even if his contract demands are unreasonable, he's a guy you pay- especially when you can dump a lot of it into the uncapped year.

dalemurphy
03-10-2010, 02:05 PM
The reason Shockey doesn't have more catches is Brees spreads the ball around more.

I wouldn't trade OD for Shockey

But if a team offered me a 2nd and a 3rd rd pick I would take it. Because I have this feeling McNair is going to let OD walk after this season.

BTW How would you feel if Ryans isn't re-upped some time this year? I dont see this happening either.

Brees threw for 5000 yards in 2008 and OD still had much better numbers, even with a stud AJ in catching way over 100 balls and KW getting almost 1000 yards. I think you're grasping at straws. Watch both guys play. OD's better and it's not very close.

Ole Miss Texan
03-10-2010, 02:07 PM
Schaub does have a large concentration of passes to Andre, no getting around that! But take a look at last years' receptions numbers for guys with 10+ receptions. Texans had 10 and Saints had 9 players with 10+ rec.

Texans: Andre (101), Walter (53), Slaton (44), Daniels (40), Anderson (38), Jacoby (27), Dreessen (26), Leach (20), Brown (16), Moats (13).

Saints: Colston (70), Henderson (51), Shockey (48), Bush (47), Meachem (45), Thomas (39), Thomas (35), Moore (14), Evans (10).

I do think there is some merit that Brees spreads his passes out more evenly than Schaub. Another thing though is that if Owen didn't get injured, I'd say he gets considerably more receptions which decreases the other players (Anderson, Dreessen, etc). So I think there would be a higher concentration of passes to Andre, Walter and Daniels and less to the others. Might argue Slaton too if he didn't have a down year. who knows.

With that said, If I was a QB I sure as hell would be throwing most of my passes to Andre and Daniels, those two are arguably the best at there position in the league! Andre + Daniels >>> Colston + Shockey. So in other words, Daniels should get more receptions because he's better and more of a threat.

2slik4u
03-10-2010, 02:15 PM
Forgot about Walter.

If they had picked up Pollard as soon as he got cut I would have given them some slack. Even though they were very lucky Pollard became available.

The fact that they didn't sign Pollard until after week 2 and he didn't start playing till week 4 and IMHO this cost the Texans a playoff spot takes any of the Kudos Smith would be getting away.

Not starting Pollard cost us a playoff spot?????

I seem to remember about three Kris Brown kicks and a goal line stuff on Chris brown (x2) being the reasons.

If we would have won one more game, just one more game, we would have been in. Its hard for me to agree that not starting Pollard the moment he stepped off the bus was the reason we missed the playoffs.

Besides, how the hell can you start a guy who doesnt even know the playbook yet?

infantrycak
03-10-2010, 02:16 PM
Shockey stayed healthy an contributed to his team all season OD didn't.

No he didn't stay healthy all season. He missed 3 regular season games and didn't start a 4th. Then he had a greatly reduced role in the playoffs being on the field for only 40% of offensive snaps.

If OD was a great blocker Smith wouldn't have draft A.Hill in the 4th rd.

Yeah obviously it's that rather than Breuner wasn't 5 years younger.

The reason Shockey doesn't have more catches is Brees spreads the ball around more.

Sure he does - 9 Saints with 10 or more receptions. 10 Texans with 10 or more receptions.

2slik4u
03-10-2010, 02:21 PM
No he didn't stay healthy all season. He missed 3 regular season games and didn't start a 4th. Then he had a greatly reduced role in the playoffs being on the field for only 40% of offensive snaps.



Yeah obviously it's that rather than Breuner wasn't 5 years younger.



Sure he does - 9 Saints with 10 or more receptions. 10 Texans with 10 or more receptions.

Burn!

:boxing:

steelbtexan
03-10-2010, 02:37 PM
So Shockey missed 3 of 19 games? That's much better than 8 of 16.

Fact if OD was a great blocker A.Hill wouldn't have been drafted. (Arguementative)

Brees spreads the ball around amongst his main receivers better. The 1 catch by Hill really proves your point. Doesn't it. In this case I trust my eyes more than I trust your stats.

BullNation4Life
03-10-2010, 02:39 PM
So Shockey missed 3 of 19 games? That's much better than 8 of 16.

I think someone is doing too much of this....

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_gcA0ZuKGkI8/Svw1M6rpLnI/AAAAAAAAEog/a0LV0OLhX_4/s320/butt.jpg

steelbtexan
03-10-2010, 02:43 PM
i think someone is doing too much of this....

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_gca0zukgki8/svw1m6rplni/aaaaaaaaeog/a0lv0olhx_4/s320/butt.jpg

lol

HuttoKarl
03-10-2010, 02:57 PM
The front office really needs to give Pitts a one year deal...he's earned that much. Why make the guy beg?

Also, while Sharper is feeling disrespected at the Saints' lowball offer, we should call him up and get that vet leadership in town for a visit.

infantrycak
03-10-2010, 03:00 PM
So Shockey missed 3 of 19 games? That's much better than 8 of 16.

No Shockey missed 3 of 16 games, basically 4 and then was in on only 40% of snaps in the playoffs because he was still hurt. They only commented on it about 30 times during the playoffs.

Brees spreads the ball around amongst his main receivers better.

Main receivers? - ok bump it up to minimum of 25 receptions and they each still have 7 guys. To the extent AJ gets a larger % of balls than Colston that might be because he's AJ.

But this was really about Shockey - in the last two years Shockey has been targeted 135 times for 98 receptions (72.5% completions) and OD was targeted a whopping 8 times more at 143 times for 110 receptions (77%). This is during a time period the saints threw the ball 1149 times and the Texans 1137 times.

Heck if anything AJ is stealing from OD. That's when you often see some of the biggest TE numbers like when Vick relied on his TE or Gonzo up in KC.

GP
03-10-2010, 03:34 PM
I have to wonder if posters on here are now possibly (at least maybe just a little) beginning to understand the "McNair is cheap" crowd and its theories.

It's easy to squash that, if a Homer wants to point to Bob being "generous" enough to purchase a business entity, err...ummm...I mean a "sports team" and us little old fans should be thankful to have football back again. That's the "You ought to be thankful that you're married to someone like me who is kind enough to starve you so that you won't get fat" card, IMO.

But here we have instances where three free agents--Dunta, OD, and DeMeco--entered last season desiring the front office to do something for them. One guy got his wish, and I think it was the dumbest move ever. It smells of "superstar treatment" because that's how Dunta is viewed in some circles in the NFL world. So Bob wants to reward those people who are faces-of-the-franchise. It's his strategy to do this, to attract future faces-of-the-franchise. Meanwhile, DeMeco and OD are stiff-armed. Royally.

And it's looking a little grim for them again this year. Now, there might be talks we don't know about. After all, the Texans organization operates like that suspicious family down the street whom you think might be beating his kids at night...but you don't have proof. All you have is rumors. Things look a certain way, but it might not be anything at all. The point is this: You just aren't going to know.

McClain doesn't know. And won't know. Nobody will know. Until something happens out in the open, you won't know.

The more I look at the way this team's FO operates, the more awkward and uncomfortable I feel. I didn't like how Kubiak giggled and scoffed at the idea of Benson, then tried to sign the guy, then couldn't manage to seal the deal. Same thing with Bodden. And now it appears Thomas Jones had no plans to meet with the Texans. When I see his contract that he has now, I am left scratching my head. There is a huge breakdown here.

This team is holding it together, but I don't see them advancing from last year to-the-next. Maybe we hit on a draft choice or two. I hope so. But as it stands, we're needing a near-perfect draft. We're needing a lot of good things to happen.

I just don't buy into the way this thing is being built. There's way too much of an inward-focused attitude with them--Paraphrased: "Hey, if someone wants buy into what we're doing, and not make as much, then that's great. But we're not going to overpay. We're right. We know what's up. We're going to be the next big thing. And you ought to be glad that you could even be considered to be considered in the first place. Want to join our club?"

This is all a little too cult'ish and exclusive and weird for me. Gary is an Aggie, and those guys have their rituals and their mantras and their own unique way of going about things. The way he handles players is weird, too--Banning JJ from the Jags game for being late (not for MISSING it, mind you. For being LATE. The roster decisions for WRs and RBs is curious, too).

I just think the culture of this franchise is semi-competent and not nearly as forward-looking in its philosophy of how to get better come gameday as you see elsewhere. At least with other teams, you can see things clearly. With this team? It's an enigma, wrapped inside a mystery.

I'm just sayin' that things looked good when we wined and dined Bodden. And when we didn't seal the deal? A huge list of questions are emerging. Again.

Same song and dance, different year.

GP
03-10-2010, 03:39 PM
The Kubiak Approval Index, with me, is at an all-time low right now.

There were two guys who could have supplemented (and maybe started) at CB and RB.

But, like with Benson or LJ, we will never know.

TexCanada
03-10-2010, 03:47 PM
The Kubiak Approval Index, with me, is at an all-time low right now.

There were two guys who could have supplemented (and maybe started) at CB and RB.

But, like with Benson or LJ, we will never know.

All of what you are saying makes sense, but I don't think that just because all the negotioations are kept private that it makes our FO bad. We don't know what is going on behind the scenes, but it seems to me that MOST of the players continually have praise for Kubes and stand behind him. I would bet that most of the players are happy to be a part of this org.

Also, I agree that some of the personnel choices have been strange, but I completely agree with telling JJ to stay home for being late. I mean, its not like he got stuck at work late or something.

GP
03-10-2010, 04:23 PM
All of what you are saying makes sense, but I don't think that just because all the negotioations are kept private that it makes our FO bad. We don't know what is going on behind the scenes, but it seems to me that MOST of the players continually have praise for Kubes and stand behind him. I would bet that most of the players are happy to be a part of this org.

Also, I agree that some of the personnel choices have been strange, but I completely agree with telling JJ to stay home for being late. I mean, its not like he got stuck at work late or something.

Thank you for not going off the deep end and condemning what I posted.

I still like this team. I mean, I was Oilers since a kid...now it's the Texans.

But I am really disheartened by the subtle slip-ups that have happened the past year or two. In the beginning, Kubiak could do no wrong because things were really SO terrible that anything he did was an instant upgrade.

I just feel like there is a bit of a ceiling being reached by this team. We're soooo close to getting into the playoffs; soooo close of becoming a seriously good team.

But when Kubiak left one of his home-run hitters in Houston, and we lost to the Jags...I was deflated. Everyone says "Woe unto Jacoby for being late and not following the rules."

But I say "Woe unto Kubiak for not understanding that you don't leave your best guys at home." There were other options for dealing with Jacoby. People should be dealt with in ways that make an impact upon the person needing correction, not shaming tactics like you'd use on a puppy who isn't peeing outside yet. Fine him so much money that he has to eat Hot Pockets for a week. THAT is where you influence professional athletes: The pocketbook.

The only thing Kubiak did was screw himself out of a chance to maybe have JJ score a TD on either a return or a pass reception. He might have cost himself a playoff spot by doing that. There are more instances of where this uber-smart guy everyone calls Kubiak has had some brain-farts, but we're to believe that it was circumstantial and all hindsight and blah-blah-blah, etc., etc.

Chris Brown on multiple occasions, then not sealing the deal with Benson. Kris Brown on multiple multiple occasions. JJ left at home, vs. a divisional rival, needing every weapon we can get our hands on. Now it's the blunders with two NEED positions at CB and RB.

There seems to be a lot of "cutting off the nose, in order to spite the face" with Kubiak. It's a pattern of arrogance and so much swagger, mixed in with some success at offensive stats rankings, that is concerning me.

TexCanada
03-10-2010, 04:44 PM
Thank you for not going off the deep end and condemning what I posted.

I still like this team. I mean, I was Oilers since a kid...now it's the Texans.

But I am really disheartened by the subtle slip-ups that have happened the past year or two. In the beginning, Kubiak could do no wrong because things were really SO terrible that anything he did was an instant upgrade.

I just feel like there is a bit of a ceiling being reached by this team. We're soooo close to getting into the playoffs; soooo close of becoming a seriously good team.

But when Kubiak left one of his home-run hitters in Houston, and we lost to the Jags...I was deflated. Everyone says "Woe unto Jacoby for being late and not following the rules."

But I say "Woe unto Kubiak for not understanding that you don't leave your best guys at home." There were other options for dealing with Jacoby. People should be dealt with in ways that make an impact upon the person needing correction, not shaming tactics like you'd use on a puppy who isn't peeing outside yet. Fine him so much money that he has to eat Hot Pockets for a week. THAT is where you influence professional athletes: The pocketbook.

The only thing Kubiak did was screw himself out of a chance to maybe have JJ score a TD on either a return or a pass reception. He might have cost himself a playoff spot by doing that. There are more instances of where this uber-smart guy everyone calls Kubiak has had some brain-farts, but we're to believe that it was circumstantial and all hindsight and blah-blah-blah, etc., etc.

Chris Brown on multiple occasions, then not sealing the deal with Benson. Kris Brown on multiple multiple occasions. JJ left at home, vs. a divisional rival, needing every weapon we can get our hands on. Now it's the blunders with two NEED positions at CB and RB.

There seems to be a lot of "cutting off the nose, in order to spite the face" with Kubiak. It's a pattern of arrogance and so much swagger, mixed in with some success at offensive stats rankings, that is concerning me.

For me personally, I am willing to suspend my judgement on Smithiak for one more season. Last year was a really good year for determining exactly what our strengths and weaknesses are, and improving our roster by one extra win isn't that tall of an order. So, if they are unable to get it done then I will agree that they will never be able to take this team "over the hump". I will give them them the chance to do so though before I decide whether or not they are capable (not that my decision actually matters). I will also give them the benefit of the doubt when it comes to not signing any free agents, because clearly they believe they can address our issues in other ways.

This year is going to be very interesting. There will be no more, "if we can go 2-2 in this stretch of the season" crap. Every game will be difficult, no more excuses. We have to bring it every game like it is a playoff game.

NitroGSXR
03-10-2010, 05:41 PM
Today I learned that we have the 3rd highest payroll in the NFL. How accurate is that? I don't know but I think McNair's not as cheap as some have made him out to be. He's making a lot of money because he's lucky enough to have the best fans in the NFL. We love our football here in Texas. Enough with the profit angle. They all make money. It just looks like our organization may not be the best at accumulating a championship football team right now. I know we'll go to the Super Bowl one day. I just hope I'm alive when it happens. I'll never forget the world champion days in 1994 and 1995 for Houston. Thanks, Dream!

A new season is a new season every year. We have as much of a chance as anyone else before the first game starts. Let's hope the dominoes fall our way and we end up Super at the end of the season.

devo-x
03-10-2010, 06:21 PM
Why were the Texans swept by a 7-9 Jaguars Team last season? :brickwall: That's one of the reasons for narrowly missing the playoffs

Texans Pride
03-10-2010, 06:41 PM
Ok, I'm satisfied for now...We signed Smith....See, I just needed to create this thread, and boom, free agent signing baby.

Carr Bombed
03-10-2010, 08:46 PM
So Shockey missed 3 of 19 games? That's much better than 8 of 16.

Fact if OD was a great blocker A.Hill wouldn't have been drafted. (Arguementative)

Brees spreads the ball around amongst his main receivers better. The 1 catch by Hill really proves your point. Doesn't it. In this case I trust my eyes more than I trust your stats.

LOL, teams draft TEs all the time. It's one of those positions where you can fill alot of holes, because they are also key on special teams and they also allow you to run ALOT of different looks/packages on offense.

What's next? Are you going to tell us the reason why Dallas drafted Martellus Bennet in the second round was because "Jason Witten" can't run block :rolleyes: A healthy Owen Daniels is CLEARLY a better TE than Jeremy Shockey... If Daniels makes it back from his knee injury teams around the league would easily take him over Shockey, run blocking be damned.

P.S.
I also love how you start opinions off with the word "FACT".

You're comments are threatening to cross a thin line of harsh criticism of your team to just straight hate. Shockey>Owen Daniels LOL.

steelbtexan
03-10-2010, 09:52 PM
I believe I said in one of my posts that I think cutting OD would be a mistake.

Just because OD got hurt and missed half of the season and isn't a great blocker doesn't mean I hate him or the team. The chemistry that OD and Schaub have is the reason OD is valuable as he is.

I wish you luck trying to read my mind many have tried and failed. He** I cant even read my mind half the time so good luck with that. LOL

GP
03-10-2010, 11:07 PM
I have to wonder if posters on here are now possibly (at least maybe just a little) beginning to understand the "McNair is cheap" crowd and its theories.

It's easy to squash that, if a Homer wants to point to Bob being "generous" enough to purchase a business entity, err...ummm...I mean a "sports team" and us little old fans should be thankful to have football back again. That's the "You ought to be thankful that you're married to someone like me who is kind enough to starve you so that you won't get fat" card, IMO.

But here we have instances where three free agents--Dunta, OD, and DeMeco--entered last season desiring the front office to do something for them. One guy got his wish, and I think it was the dumbest move ever. It smells of "superstar treatment" because that's how Dunta is viewed in some circles in the NFL world. So Bob wants to reward those people who are faces-of-the-franchise. It's his strategy to do this, to attract future faces-of-the-franchise. Meanwhile, DeMeco and OD are stiff-armed. Royally.

And it's looking a little grim for them again this year. Now, there might be talks we don't know about. After all, the Texans organization operates like that suspicious family down the street whom you think might be beating his kids at night...but you don't have proof. All you have is rumors. Things look a certain way, but it might not be anything at all. The point is this: You just aren't going to know.

McClain doesn't know. And won't know. Nobody will know. Until something happens out in the open, you won't know.

The more I look at the way this team's FO operates, the more awkward and uncomfortable I feel. I didn't like how Kubiak giggled and scoffed at the idea of Benson, then tried to sign the guy, then couldn't manage to seal the deal. Same thing with Bodden. And now it appears Thomas Jones had no plans to meet with the Texans. When I see his contract that he has now, I am left scratching my head. There is a huge breakdown here.

This team is holding it together, but I don't see them advancing from last year to-the-next. Maybe we hit on a draft choice or two. I hope so. But as it stands, we're needing a near-perfect draft. We're needing a lot of good things to happen.

I just don't buy into the way this thing is being built. There's way too much of an inward-focused attitude with them--Paraphrased: "Hey, if someone wants buy into what we're doing, and not make as much, then that's great. But we're not going to overpay. We're right. We know what's up. We're going to be the next big thing. And you ought to be glad that you could even be considered to be considered in the first place. Want to join our club?"

This is all a little too cult'ish and exclusive and weird for me. Gary is an Aggie, and those guys have their rituals and their mantras and their own unique way of going about things. The way he handles players is weird, too--Banning JJ from the Jags game for being late (not for MISSING it, mind you. For being LATE. The roster decisions for WRs and RBs is curious, too).

I just think the culture of this franchise is semi-competent and not nearly as forward-looking in its philosophy of how to get better come gameday as you see elsewhere. At least with other teams, you can see things clearly. With this team? It's an enigma, wrapped inside a mystery.

I'm just sayin' that things looked good when we wined and dined Bodden. And when we didn't seal the deal? A huge list of questions are emerging. Again.

Same song and dance, different year.

I think that might be my best post. Ever.

I've gone back and re-read it about 5 or 6 times. I like it better each time I read it.

I thought I might have been a little harsh; maybe stretching it a bit with my statements about the Texans owner, coach, GM, and front office and its handling of things (comparing it to a cult).

But in the end, I think it's a good way to summarize the current state of this team. It just feels like this team is so sterile and scrubbed down. Maybe it has no heart and emotion on the field because it has had no heart and emotion off the field. I have to stop and wonder if the players who say they just adore Gary Kubiak are playing the game, so to speak.

Because you see what happens when you DON'T play the game: You don't play the game. I have no clue who Gary Kubiak is, to tell you the truth. I live outside of Houston, so there's one reason why. But as a fan, I just don't really understand him. I don't get the goose-bumps on the arm like the players supposedly do.

It's all just very contrived and a bit puzzling to me, the way Kubiak holds the sort of sway that he does. I guess Capers and Casserly screwed the pooch THAT badly. Things were THAT bad back then. Creating a competent offense has bought Kubiak so much job protection equity. (Sigh)......

OK, back to semi-on topic: I never even tweeted Wade Smith. I feel bad about that. Did anybody tweet him? I haven't even been to his thread yet.