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Section516
03-03-2010, 03:28 PM
Here's Pro Football Weekly's thorough look at needs in the AFC South.

PFF has also done pass-protection research recently. They rank David Stewart and Eric Winston among the league’s best right tackles in 2009 with Eben Britton as one of the worst and Eugene Monroe and Duane Brown among the worst left tackles.

Part two covers guards and centers; Chris White and Jeff Saturday fared well and Brad Meester and Kevin Mawae did not.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth

Goatcheese
03-03-2010, 03:46 PM
I've seen a few sources that say the Texans have been eyeballing LTs projected to go in the first few rounds. I wonder if they're planning a move to guard for Brown where he won't be so exposed. I still think he can live up to his draft position at guard, but he's been close to a bust at LT.

BullNation4Life
03-03-2010, 03:59 PM
I've seen a few sources that say the Texans have been eyeballing LTs projected to go in the first few rounds. I wonder if they're planning a move to guard for Brown where he won't be so exposed. I still think he can live up to his draft position at guard, but he's been close to a bust at LT.

Well you have to take in the fact Brown has also only been playing LT for 3 years total now where most LTs have been playing the position way longer. I would say the "bust" tag couldn't be added until Brown is in the league 4-5 years...

BigTimeTexanFan
03-03-2010, 04:42 PM
I've seen a few sources that say the Texans have been eyeballing LTs projected to go in the first few rounds. I wonder if they're planning a move to guard for Brown where he won't be so exposed. I still think he can live up to his draft position at guard, but he's been close to a bust at LT.

Brown may not be an all-pro, but he is certainly not close to being a bust (I think that term gets over used). Look at your own signature, dude was the starting left tackle for that offense.

ArlingtonTexan
03-03-2010, 04:56 PM
Pro Football Forecast and Football Outsides are interesting sites in what they try to do, but the flaws cannot be overlooked. that siad, I have less problem with the sites, but when fans just point to them as unquestioned experts.

ChampionTexan
03-03-2010, 05:05 PM
The OP originally had me confused, as the body of the linked blog-post never discusses Pro Football Weekly's analysis of the Texans needs - it just acknowledges they did one, and provides a link to it.

While the next paragraph does mention it's Pro Football Focus's research, I initially read the post as PFW's praise of Winston, and criticizing of Brown, when in fact, they mentioned neither specifically.

(or it could just be that I'm stupid)

Thorn
03-03-2010, 07:54 PM
Pro Football Forecast and Football Outsides are interesting sites in what they try to do, but the flaws cannot be overlooked. that siad, I have less problem with the sites, but when fans just point to them as unquestioned experts.

Stats are great things when you want to compare stuff. But they aren't going to tell you who's going to win the most games and make the playoffs.

Texan4Ever
03-03-2010, 09:40 PM
Thorn said it best about stats. Glad to hear Eric Winston getting noticed for his play!

ATXtexanfan
03-03-2010, 09:42 PM
Goatcheese calls duane brown a bust but defends dunta...... not saying anything just saying

Goatcheese
03-04-2010, 08:57 AM
Goatcheese calls duane brown a bust but defends dunta...... not saying anything just saying

I said DB is close to being a bust at LT, not that he is a bust. I know reading comprehension can be difficult sometimes, but give it a shot.

I also said that I think he can live up to his 1st round draft status as a guard.

I "defend" D-Rob by saying he is a jackhole who overrates himself, and is only the 20-25th best corner in the NFL, but that brain damaged people who think he's not good enough to be a nickle corner don't know what they're talking about.

Man, I really have a mancrush on him. :rolleyes:

HOU-TEX
03-04-2010, 09:00 AM
It might be just me, but I don't think Winston did a whole lot better than DB, if at all. I saw Winston struggle run blocking quite often. Which is unusual for him.

BullNation4Life
03-04-2010, 09:02 AM
I said DB is close to being a bust at LT, not that he is a bust. I know reading comprehension can be difficult sometimes, but give it a shot.

I also said that I think he can live up to his 1st round draft status as a guard.

I "defend" D-Rob by saying he is a jackhole who overrates himself, and is only the 20-25th best corner in the NFL, but that brain damaged people who think he's not good enough to be a nickle corner don't know what they're talking about.

Man, I really have a mancrush on him. :rolleyes:

same could be said for those who would be willing to give 12 million to a "nickel corner"

As far a DB goes, lack of experience does not constitute a bust tag, it constitutes a "need more time" tag...

BullNation4Life
03-04-2010, 09:08 AM
It might be just me, but I don't think Winston did a whole lot better than DB, if at all. I saw Winston struggle run blocking quite often. Which is unusual for him.


Mainly because he had an inexperienced Guard playing next to him the whole year. Brisiel and Winston worked very well together for the last couple of seasons. Hopefully Brisiel can come back healthy and pick up where he and Winston left off....

HuttoKarl
03-04-2010, 09:12 AM
I hope Winston retires a Texan. He excels on the field and I love catching him on the radio on those clear days that I can pick up AM Houston channels from Austin.

My biggest beef with Duane Brown is that he telegraphs pass vs. run plays. He's upright on passing plays and in the stance on running plays....at least he was his first season...didn't pay close enough attention last season.

I think he's improving though. This doesn't mean that I'm against stockpiling Tackle talent, left or right. You've got to have GOOD depth on the line to win in this league.

HOU-TEX
03-04-2010, 09:21 AM
Mainly because he had an inexperienced Guard playing next to him the whole year. Brisiel and Winston worked very well together for the last couple of seasons. Hopefully Brisiel can come back healthy and pick up where he and Winston left off....

I was speaking primarily of this season, but considering I lost my recordings of the first few games due to a switch to AT&T Uverse from Dish, I'll have to take your word. However, our running game sucked when he was in at G early this season too. How much of it had to do with he and Winston? I don't know because I can't re-watch those particular games. :cry2:

Goatcheese
03-04-2010, 09:22 AM
same could be said for those who would be willing to give 12 million to a "nickel corner"

Except 20-25th out of 64 possible starters isn't a "nickel corner".

As far a DB goes, lack of experience does not constitute a bust tag, it constitutes a "need more time" tag...

He's definitely not a bust yet, but if he doesn't dramatically improve he will become a bust as a 1st round LT.

The Pencil Neck
03-04-2010, 09:27 AM
My biggest beef with Duane Brown is that he telegraphs pass vs. run plays. He's upright on passing plays and in the stance on running plays....at least he was his first season...didn't pay close enough attention last season.


I'm pretty sure he fixed that. I didn't really analyze it like I did his first year but I did watch it early on.

EDIT: Actually, now that I think about it, I think he fixed it a game or two after we had discussed it here his first season.

CloakNNNdagger
03-04-2010, 09:36 AM
I'm pretty sure he fixed that. I didn't really analyze it like I did his first year but I did watch it early on.

EDIT: Actually, now that I think about it, I think he fixed it a game or two after we had discussed it here his first season.


You might recall, I called in on the "Kubiak Show" on 610 pointing out this observation to Kubiak. He stated that he didn't notice this pattern, but that he "would look into it." The next game, the pattern "mysteriously" disappeared.

HuttoKarl
03-04-2010, 09:38 AM
I'm pretty sure he fixed that. I didn't really analyze it like I did his first year but I did watch it early on.

EDIT: Actually, now that I think about it, I think he fixed it a game or two after we had discussed it here his first season.

I hope you're right! I had to clear any recorded games to save room for Orange Housewives of Desperate County and Jon and Kate and Spongebob...and all the shows my wife and kids wanted to record. :kingkong:

Goatcheese
03-04-2010, 09:47 AM
I hope you're right! I had to clear any recorded games to save room for Orange Housewives of Desperate County and Jon and Kate and Spongebob...and all the shows my wife and kids wanted to record. :kingkong:

Don't lie, you recorded them for yourself. :smooch:

BullNation4Life
03-04-2010, 10:17 AM
I hope you're right! I had to clear any recorded games to save room for Orange Housewives of Desperate County and Jon and Kate

*Man Card Revoked due to deleting football for reality TV.* :ymca:

ATXtexanfan
03-04-2010, 10:41 AM
I said DB is close to being a bust at LT, not that he is a bust. I know reading comprehension can be difficult sometimes, but give it a shot.

I also said that I think he can live up to his 1st round draft status as a guard.

I "defend" D-Rob by saying he is a jackhole who overrates himself, and is only the 20-25th best corner in the NFL, but that brain damaged people who think he's not good enough to be a nickle corner don't know what they're talking about.

Man, I really have a mancrush on him. :rolleyes:

Easy bro. Was just saying that's all. I know duane brown was a 1st rd pick but weren't there like 5-6 tackles taken before him? Also we moved back for another pick. He's not an all pro but was a good pick considering. Also his qb tends to hold the ball a bit to long if you ask me. I say winston is solid, not great.

eriadoc
03-04-2010, 11:05 AM
Thunderkyss really needs to post in this thread. I specifically remember him calling Winston our worst lineman, and I told him no one in the NFL would agree with him.

dalemurphy
03-04-2010, 11:07 AM
Thunderkyss really needs to post in this thread. I specifically remember him calling Winston our worst lineman, and I told him no one in the NFL would agree with him.

He's certainly not our worst lineman, but I can't agree with him being ranked among the best RTs based on last season's performance. And, I'm a member of the Sunshine Club!

Goatcheese
03-04-2010, 11:12 AM
He's certainly not our worst lineman, but I can't agree with him being ranked among the best RTs based on last season's performance. And, I'm a member of the Sunshine Club!

I thought Winston was solid-to-good 90% of the time, with just an occasional "wtf" block that left me shaking my head. His attempts to cut block are pretty embarrassing at times.

Overall RT isn't a position stocked with elite talent in this era, so Winston being up there is more of a "Hmm, that's nice" than a "Wow, that's great!"

eriadoc
03-04-2010, 11:16 AM
I thought Winston was solid-to-good 90% of the time, with just an occasional "wtf" block that left me shaking my head. His attempts to cut block are pretty embarrassing at times.

Overall RT isn't a position stocked with elite talent in this era, so Winston being up there is more of a "Hmm, that's nice" than a "Wow, that's great!"

THAT is our biggest problem on this line. I'd really like some people more knowledgeable than I to go back and grade film, while considering the idea that our guys might not put their hearts into it. I have picked up enough hints here and there, and watched their pathetic cut blocking enough, to suspect that our guys don't want to do it, and they're doing their best to get by with the minimum cut block necessary. Whereas, the Broncos teams that excelled in the ZBS wanted to put their guy on the ground and didn't really consider whether it was dirty or not. I just think our guys don't have the stomach for it.

HuttoKarl
03-04-2010, 11:20 AM
Don't lie, you recorded them for yourself. :smooch:

I'm not lying...I'm also not saying I haven't watched all of them. :doot:

I record Nip/Tuck (no more though..series over), Modern Family and House Hunters International (planning on finding a home overseas for when I'm old and gray), and sports I won't be around to see. We've got one TV and one DVR, so I tend to let them get their fix.

The Pencil Neck
03-04-2010, 12:22 PM
I hope you're right! I had to clear any recorded games to save room for Orange Housewives of Desperate County and Jon and Kate and Spongebob...and all the shows my wife and kids wanted to record. :kingkong:

That's why I got a 1 terabyte drive and hooked it up to my DVR.

I just wish I'd gotten a 2 terabyte drive now.

HuttoKarl
03-04-2010, 12:26 PM
That's why I got a 1 terabyte drive and hooked it up to my DVR.

I just wish I'd gotten a 2 terabyte drive now.

No idea one could do that.

I may have to see what the back of the DVR box looks like.

The Pencil Neck
03-04-2010, 12:37 PM
No idea one could do that.

I may have to see what the back of the DVR box looks like.

Look for an eSATA jack.

barrett
03-04-2010, 02:44 PM
I like him and think he is a good player but I wouldn't hesitate to say that he is perhaps our most overrated player on the team. Certainly not one of the best RT's.

Insideop
03-04-2010, 03:20 PM
Mainly because he had an inexperienced Guard playing next to him the whole year. Brisiel and Winston worked very well together for the last couple of seasons. Hopefully Brisiel can come back healthy and pick up where he and Winston left off....

You can use that excuse with Duane Brown too. He had Studdard next to him instead of Pitts. I know that had to affect his play somewhat.

I guess I feel that both EW and DB are good tackles (not great). But the real question is, do you feel they are continuing to improve or have they plateaued? In my mind DB improved last season, especially in pass protection. I think he was dead last in sacks allowed by a LT in 08 (think he had 11.5) and this past year I think he gave up 7. So he has improved somewhat. Not sure about QB pressures and hurries given up, but I still think he has improved from his rookie year enough to give him some more time to develop. If he cuts down his sacks allowed by 3 or 4 he will be up there with some of the better LT's as far as pass protection goes.

As for EW, he may be reaching his peak. I just don't know. As I said, I think he is good, just not sure if we've seen the best of him yet or not. JMHO!

gary
03-04-2010, 06:37 PM
This just me but I think Eric would be a better fit at RG.