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View Full Version : Taylor Mays 4.24! (NOT!)


Mailman
03-02-2010, 10:49 AM
Yeah it's unofficial via NFLN, but holy shoeballs that is fast!

Thought it deserved its own thread.

Does it change your mock?

nero THE zero
03-02-2010, 10:50 AM
Does it change your mock?
It should. He was pretty much universally being left out of the first round in mocks. He's a lock to go in the first.

SAMURAITEXAN
03-02-2010, 11:20 AM
2nd time he ran was 4.34 I think. Even in 4.3's with his measurement is very fast.

Blake
03-02-2010, 11:23 AM
I had Mays to Oakland #8 4 weeks ago and its still lookin good.

SAMURAITEXAN
03-02-2010, 11:26 AM
I had Mays to Oakland #8 4 weeks ago and its still lookin good.

Yeah! I can see Al jumping off his chair just about now.

Ole Miss Texan
03-02-2010, 11:30 AM
Physical Freak. Vernon Gholston 2.0

Here's a scenario. Our top players are off the board, Texans trade down with Arizona for their 2nd + 3rd round picks. Arizona selects Sean Weatherspoon (the next Demeco Ryans).

At #26, Taylor Mays is still available. Al Davis and the Oakland Raiders come calling, offer us their 2nd + 3rd round picks in exchange for Mays and our 4th rounder.

We now have THREE 2nd round picks and THREE 3rd round picks. First pick becomes #39 overall, 7th in the 2nd round. Can get Great value with quality starters by addressing CB, RB, DT, WR, OG and FS all in the first 3 rounds.

Brandon Ghee, Mardy Gilyard, Linval Joseph, Brandon Tate, Jon Asamogha, Major Wright?

Texecutioner
03-02-2010, 11:31 AM
It's official. He's a Raider now. :runaway:


Honestly though with all of the problems that I read about him from last season in coverage I'm not sure he'd be worth a first rounder at all. As great as he looked at times as a Junior, his Senior season was rather unimpressive.

SAMURAITEXAN
03-02-2010, 11:36 AM
Physical Freak. Vernon Gholston 2.0

Here's a scenario. Our top players are off the board, Texans trade down with Arizona for their 2nd + 3rd round picks. Arizona selects Sean Weatherspoon (the next Demeco Ryans).

At #26, Taylor Mays is still available. Al Davis and the Oakland Raiders come calling, offer us their 2nd + 3rd round picks in exchange for Mays and our 4th rounder.

We now have THREE 2nd round picks and THREE 3rd round picks. First pick becomes #39 overall, 7th in the 2nd round. Can get Great value with quality starters by addressing CB, RB, DT, WR, OG and FS all in the first 3 rounds.

Brandon Ghee, Mardy Gilyard, Linval Joseph, Brandon Tate, Jon Asamogha, Major Wright?

If Mays is there at #20, we may pick him up. It will be very difficult to pass him up. Don't you think? But it's so funny that I can actually see Al doing that tho.

Mailman
03-02-2010, 11:37 AM
Physical Freak. Vernon Gholston 2.0

Here's a scenario. Our top players are off the board, Texans trade down with Arizona for their 2nd + 3rd round picks. Arizona selects Sean Weatherspoon (the next Demeco Ryans).

At #26, Taylor Mays is still available. Al Davis and the Oakland Raiders come calling, offer us their 2nd + 3rd round picks in exchange for Mays and our 4th rounder.

We now have THREE 2nd round picks and THREE 3rd round picks. First pick becomes #39 overall, 7th in the 2nd round. Can get Great value with quality starters by addressing CB, RB, DT, WR, OG and FS all in the first 3 rounds.

Brandon Ghee, Mardy Gilyard, Linval Joseph, Brandon Tate, Jon Asamogha, Major Wright?

After he just blew up the combine, I doubt the Raiders pass on him at #8. He definitely won't be there at 26.

Wolf6151
03-02-2010, 11:43 AM
If Mays had some pass coverage skills and tackling skills he'd be scary good. He's got all the physical skills, I wonder if he can learn pass coverage skills, learn to play the ball and not the WR, and surely he can learn to wrap up when tackling.

SAMURAITEXAN
03-02-2010, 11:50 AM
It's official. He's a Raider now. :runaway:


Honestly though with all of the problems that I read about him from last season in coverage I'm not sure he'd be worth a first rounder at all. As great as he looked at times as a Junior, his Senior season was rather unimpressive.

I agree with you on his Junior year and Senior year productivity. However, we need to understand that all those great 3 LBs left in 2008 and D is not the same quality wise in 2009 and need to take that as a consideration to evaluate. Also, people tend to remember amazing play as their stardard of plays and anything else is subpar performance. Like when you playing golf, you expect yourself to hit more than 300yds everytime however, only happens 1 out of 10 drives.

stingray
03-02-2010, 11:57 AM
The official time just came out.. he ran a 4.43. Big difference from 4.24. It's still fast but not blazing fast. And he was the fastest of all DB's.

Section516
03-02-2010, 11:57 AM
4.43 offical time. Whoops NFL network!

SAMURAITEXAN
03-02-2010, 11:58 AM
Al is back on his chair now.

BigBull17
03-02-2010, 12:07 PM
It's official. He's a Raider now. :runaway:


Honestly though with all of the problems that I read about him from last season in coverage I'm not sure he'd be worth a first rounder at all. As great as he looked at times as a Junior, his Senior season was rather unimpressive.

He is the true definition of a non-playmaker. He doesn't have the nose for the ball some guys have. He looked average without three 1st round LB'ers in front of him. (Maluga went 2nd, but he is a 1st round talent)

Texecutioner
03-02-2010, 12:13 PM
He is the true definition of a non-playmaker. He doesn't have the nose for the ball some guys have. He looked average without three 1st round LB'ers in front of him. (Maluga went 2nd, but he is a 1st round talent)

Yeah, that's all I read about him this year. He was compared to Roy Williams a number of times actually. A faster version of him that hits really hard and is a freak, but just not a play maker with a nose for the ball which is what you want out of your safety. It's funny to, because I remember so many people wanting that guy last season. I was one of them as well. I couldn't believe it when he didn't come into the draft when his stock was so high either. He probably lost a ton of money now that his stock will drop.

Dutchrudder
03-02-2010, 12:14 PM
Physical Freak. Vernon Gholston 2.0

Here's a scenario. Our top players are off the board, Texans trade down with Arizona for their 2nd + 3rd round picks. Arizona selects Sean Weatherspoon (the next Demeco Ryans).

At #26, Taylor Mays is still available. Al Davis and the Oakland Raiders come calling, offer us their 2nd + 3rd round picks in exchange for Mays and our 4th rounder.

We now have THREE 2nd round picks and THREE 3rd round picks. First pick becomes #39 overall, 7th in the 2nd round. Can get Great value with quality starters by addressing CB, RB, DT, WR, OG and FS all in the first 3 rounds.

Brandon Ghee, Mardy Gilyard, Linval Joseph, Brandon Tate, Jon Asamogha, Major Wright?

Dude, you are WAY off on your draft pick values. Texans 20th pick overall is worth 850 by the chart, 26th is worth 700. Picks 58 and 90 are worth 320 and 140. In your scenario the Texans would only get a 3rd round pick from the Cards and that would be about even. Still worth it IMO if no one we need drops, but you're over valuing the Texans pick.

Draft Pick Value Chart (http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/Value-Chart.php)

As for the Raiders portion, pick 40 and 72 are worth 500 and 230, so together right at 730, which would be a good swap for the Texans if they had pick 26.

With all the needs the Texans have, it certainly is preferable for them to trade back a few times, but only if they are picking up round 2 and 3 picks. I really hope they don't just drop a spot or two for a 6th instead of dropping back 6-10 and getting a 2nd and/or 3rd as you suggest.

badboy
03-02-2010, 12:19 PM
Physical Freak. Vernon Gholston 2.0

Here's a scenario. Our top players are off the board, Texans trade down with Arizona for their 2nd + 3rd round picks. Arizona selects Sean Weatherspoon (the next Demeco Ryans).

At #26, Taylor Mays is still available. Al Davis and the Oakland Raiders come calling, offer us their 2nd + 3rd round picks in exchange for Mays and our 4th rounder.

We now have THREE 2nd round picks and THREE 3rd round picks. First pick becomes #39 overall, 7th in the 2nd round. Can get Great value with quality starters by addressing CB, RB, DT, WR, OG and FS all in the first 3 rounds.

Brandon Ghee, Mardy Gilyard, Linval Joseph, Brandon Tate, Jon Asamogha, Major Wright?Like your trades. My picks would be:
2a Ryan Mathews RB 2b Brandon Ghee CB 2c Jordan Shipley WR
3a Linval Joseph DT 3b Marshall Newhouse LG 3c JD Walton Center
4 Robert Johnson FS 5. Chris Brown RB OKla and BPA after that.

BigBull17
03-02-2010, 12:31 PM
Yeah, that's all I read about him this year. He was compared to Roy Williams a number of times actually. A faster version of him that hits really hard and is a freak, but just not a play maker with a nose for the ball which is what you want out of your safety. It's funny to, because I remember so many people wanting that guy last season. I was one of them as well. I couldn't believe it when he didn't come into the draft when his stock was so high either. He probably lost a ton of money now that his stock will drop.

I thought last year he was a little over-rated. If we didn't have Pollard, I would love him at SS, but not as you're ball hawk.

Corrosion
03-02-2010, 12:33 PM
I hope he goes to .... someone in front of the Texans. All it does is push another talent down a spot.

Texecutioner
03-02-2010, 12:38 PM
I hope he goes to .... someone in front of the Texans. All it does is push another talent down a spot.

Yep. It would be nice if someone drafted him before Earl Thomas.

Ole Miss Texan
03-02-2010, 12:41 PM
Dude, you are WAY off on your draft pick values.
Oh I boo-boo'd, I have like 6 different trade down ideas written down. We'd get Arizona's 1st and 3rd. The with another trade down (Ari's 1st) get Oakland's 2nd and 3rd. So I guess that would be two 2nds and three 3rds.

bah007
03-02-2010, 02:16 PM
It should. He was pretty much universally being left out of the first round in mocks. He's a lock to go in the first.

Anyone who left him out of the first round of a mock is a fool. Everybody already knew what a freak of an athlete he is so this isn't new to anyone. Just like Bruce Campbell, he looks great in shorts and mediocre on tape. But some coach somewhere is always gonna get an ego about a guy like that and think he is the guy that can fix him. In my last mock I had him going #21 and I actually thought he could possibly go a little higher.

WolverineFan
03-02-2010, 02:28 PM
40 times are so overrated. Haden barely ran a sub-4.6 (4.57) and now media types are talking like he can't play CB anymore. What a joke. The funny thing is that Haden (4.57) and Donovan Warren (4.59) ran "sub-par" 40 times and their stock is dropping yet the fastest 'official' 40 time by a CB was a 4.41. It's not like every other CB is burning 4.2's out there. Game tape never lies.

As for Mays, we've all known the rap on him for a long time. He is a physical freak that has sub-par football skills. He is being hyped up as a FS, but he cannot play that position in the NFL. He doesn't have the instincts to play deep safety. He needs to be drafted as a SS. If a team drafted him high as a SS then I would say great pick. If someone drafts him in at the top of the 1st as a FS they are just stupid.

IDEXAN
03-02-2010, 02:46 PM
40 times are so overrated. Haden barely ran a sub-4.6 (4.57) and now media types are talking like he can't play CB anymore. What a joke. The funny thing is that Haden (4.57) and Donovan Warren (4.59) ran "sub-par" 40 times and their stock is dropping yet the fastest 'official' 40 time by a CB was a 4.41. It's not like every other CB is burning 4.2's out there. Game tape never lies.

Of course Haden can still play CB, but his chances of being drafted in the top 10 to do so just took a serious dip. When the adjustment for official time comes out, he's probably not even sub 4.6. That's an argument "not to take" a CB in the top 10.

BigBull17
03-02-2010, 02:46 PM
Yep. It would be nice if someone drafted him before Earl Thomas.

I agree. I am afraid that we may over reach on a CB and pass up a guy like ET. CB is a huge need, but you have to be a little smart about it. ET would instantly be the best CB on our team, let alone the best FS we have ever had. I would really like our worst case senario to be we sign Sharper and let Thomas play CB for a year or so.

HuttoKarl
03-02-2010, 02:48 PM
I agree. I am afraid that we may over reach on a CB and pass up a guy like ET. CB is a huge need, but you have to be a little smart about it. ET would instantly be the best CB on our team, let alone the best FS we have ever had. I would really like our worst case senario to be we sign Sharper and let Thomas play CB for a year or so.

Earl's 4.4 40 and 21 reps is looking good so far. I truly hope he lands on our team...he's got football smarts, which we could definitely use in the secondary. Versatility is nice too.

WolverineFan
03-02-2010, 03:08 PM
Of course Haden can still play CB, but his chances of being drafted in the top 10 to do so just took a serious dip. When the adjustment for official time comes out, he's probably not even sub 4.6. That's an argument "not to take" a CB in the top 10.

Which is stupid. Everyone has seen his film. Everyone considered him a top 10 pick and the consensus #1 CB before he ran the 40 and now because he ran a "bad" time he's suddenly not worth that pick? No, I don't think so. I don't care how fast or slow he runs the forty-yard dash, the kid can play CB and I would still draft him in the top 10 regardless. The 40 has nothing to do with a kid's ability to play the position. Scouts saying otherwise is just their way of trying to over-evaluate the draft process.

Ole Miss Texan
03-02-2010, 03:32 PM
Which is stupid. Everyone has seen his film. Everyone considered him a top 10 pick and the consensus #1 CB before he ran the 40 and now because he ran a "bad" time he's suddenly not worth that pick? No, I don't think so. I don't care how fast or slow he runs the forty-yard dash, the kid can play CB and I would still draft him in the top 10 regardless. The 40 has nothing to do with a kid's ability to play the position. Scouts saying otherwise is just their way of trying to over-evaluate the draft process.
Might warrant a trade up for him if the unthinkable happens...

disaacks3
03-02-2010, 03:48 PM
Which is stupid. Everyone has seen his film. Everyone considered him a top 10 pick and the consensus #1 CB before he ran the 40 and now because he ran a "bad" time he's suddenly not worth that pick? No, I don't think so. I don't care how fast or slow he runs the forty-yard dash, the kid can play CB and I would still draft him in the top 10 regardless. The 40 has nothing to do with a kid's ability to play the position. Scouts saying otherwise is just their way of trying to over-evaluate the draft process.
The opposite argument is that the PRO game is always faster than the college game and that his "college speed" won't hold up against the faster WRs in the NFL. It doesn't matter how great your coverage skills are if you can't cover a guy on a fly route without over-the-top help every time.

- I'm not saying that this IS the case with Haden, but don't be surprised to see him fall out of the 1st round now.

rmartin65
03-02-2010, 03:53 PM
The opposite argument is that the PRO game is always faster than the college game and that his "college speed" won't hold up against the faster WRs in the NFL. It doesn't matter how great your coverage skills are if you can't cover a guy on a fly route without over-the-top help every time.

- I'm not saying that this IS the case with Haden, but don't be surprised to see him fall out of the 1st round now.

I was with you, until you said he could fall out of the first. No way in hell that happens. If Haden is there at 20 the Texans better be running to that podium. Combine times are important. Speed, strength, etc are important to measure. Where people get into trouble is they overvalue the combine. They use it to make the board, not edit the board.

bah007
03-02-2010, 03:59 PM
The opposite argument is that the PRO game is always faster than the college game and that his "college speed" won't hold up against the faster WRs in the NFL. It doesn't matter how great your coverage skills are if you can't cover a guy on a fly route without over-the-top help every time.

- I'm not saying that this IS the case with Haden, but don't be surprised to see him fall out of the 1st round now.

DeAngelo Hall runs one of the fastest 40 times in the NFL. How often does he get beat deep?

A guy with good speed and great instincts will always be better than a guy with great speed and no instincts...even against fly routes.

HoustonFrog
03-02-2010, 04:07 PM
That 40 was moved to a 4.43 officially and he will still be late 1st. Most having him going to Dallas, GB or Philly. All teams needing safety bad. This was reported in the ESPN Insider too

leebigeztx
03-02-2010, 04:22 PM
Bill Polian says 4.5 is the cutoff for a cb. If one of the greatest talent evaluaters ever says he wouldn't draft a 4.55 corner, i dont think the texans should either. I know game speed is different, but if at his pro day he runs a 4.3, then they have this formula they use and investigate the conditions, speaking of hayden.

Back to mays, he might can make the transition like thomas davis did and play will backer, but i would rather take witherspoon in that spot and get chad jones in the 2nd rd. Really, i think witherspoon is going to be one of the best players of the draft regardless of position..

stingray
03-02-2010, 04:24 PM
Earl's 4.4 40 and 21 reps is looking good so far. I truly hope he lands on our team...he's got football smarts, which we could definitely use in the secondary. Versatility is nice too.

I don't think Earl ran a 4.4 oficially. I might be wrong but I think they gave him in the 4.5's officially.

HuttoKarl
03-02-2010, 04:29 PM
I don't think Earl ran a 4.4 oficially. I might be wrong but I think they gave him in the 4.5's officially.

I saw 4.44 on footballsfuture.com. Didn't see any official time (they don't actually keep an official time...scouts keep their own).

stingray
03-02-2010, 04:33 PM
I saw 4.44 on footballsfuture.com. Didn't see any official time (they don't actually keep an official time...scouts keep their own).

They don't have Earl in the top three and the third best is a 4.48.

http://www.nfl.com/combine/top-performers

stingray
03-02-2010, 04:40 PM
I kinda hope for a poorer time from Thomas because the faster his times are the surer he will go before twenty.

painekiller
03-02-2010, 06:01 PM
Physical Freak. Vernon Gholston 2.0

Here's a scenario. Our top players are off the board, Texans trade down with Arizona for their 2nd + 3rd round picks. Arizona selects Sean Weatherspoon (the next Demeco Ryans).

At #26, Taylor Mays is still available. Al Davis and the Oakland Raiders come calling, offer us their 2nd + 3rd round picks in exchange for Mays and our 4th rounder.

We now have THREE 2nd round picks and THREE 3rd round picks. First pick becomes #39 overall, 7th in the 2nd round. Can get Great value with quality starters by addressing CB, RB, DT, WR, OG and FS all in the first 3 rounds.

Brandon Ghee, Mardy Gilyard, Linval Joseph, Brandon Tate, Jon Asamogha, Major Wright?Sorry to burst this bubble but the Raiders do not have a 3rd round pick this year, they traded it to New England.

Second Honeymoon
03-02-2010, 07:53 PM
Remember the system where Mays played in at USC. Most plays they run a single safety deep so he wasn't involved in a lot of short to mid coverages which is where a lot of college passing attacks target.

I liked Mays last year and soured on him a little after seeing some so-so performances on the field, but with the way he ran and his size and his killer instinct, you gotta love the guy's potential. I know potential is a bad word around here, trust me, but he has it in spades.

I would be happy if we got either Thomas or Mays myself. that DTackle Dan Williams from the other UT would be a nice fit too. We are going to get a good player at #20, this is a pretty deep draft especially at our positions of need (DT, FS, RB).

My dream draft would be
1st FS (mays or thomas)
2nd Center
3rd DTackle
4th Guard
5th Guard
6th BPA
7th BPA

of course that leaves RB out of the picture, but I hope we take a long look at some of these veterans out there. i think LT, Sproles, or Jones would give us some help with our running game. Slaton needs to be a 3rd down back, which is what he was to begin with. I know I may be in the strong minority here, but I think LT makes some sense especially with his ability to catch passes out of the backfield. Its risky, but I love the move.

*that being said, I liked the Ahman Green signing so take that for what its worth*

Kaiser Toro
03-02-2010, 07:59 PM
Bill Polian says 4.5 is the cutoff for a cb. If one of the greatest talent evaluaters ever says he wouldn't draft a 4.55 corner, i dont think the texans should either. I know game speed is different, but if at his pro day he runs a 4.3, then they have this formula they use and investigate the conditions, speaking of hayden.

Back to mays, he might can make the transition like thomas davis did and play will backer, but i would rather take witherspoon in that spot and get chad jones in the 2nd rd. Really, i think witherspoon is going to be one of the best players of the draft regardless of position..

Good point/take per usual. I am not a Spoon fan as a player, let alone for the Texans. However, I am with you on Jones.

Texans_Chick
03-02-2010, 08:08 PM
I think some of the talking on Mays is over-analysis and a lack of recognition of what he was asked to do for USC. It's sort of like how fans tend to like draft prospects better than established players-familiarity breeds contempt.

Also, here's an interesting screen shot from NFL Network which is food for thought:

http://i46.tinypic.com/2a50nyp.jpg

Just sayin.

Kaiser Toro
03-02-2010, 08:10 PM
I think some of the talking on Mays is over-analysis and a lack of recognition of what he was asked to do for USC. It's sort of like how fans tend to like draft prospects better than established players-familiarity breeds contempt.

Also, here's an interesting screen shot from NFL Network which is food for thought:

http://i46.tinypic.com/2a50nyp.jpg

Just sayin.

Rather than saying, can you elaborate on exactly what is being depicted? :-)

I have been on the road for what seems forever and not as plugged in to the combine.

IDEXAN
03-02-2010, 08:23 PM
Rather than saying, can you elaborate on exactly what is being depicted? :-)

I have been on the road for what seems forever and not as plugged in to the combine.

The 40s are being superimposed upon each other and the implication is Mays ran a time faster than Bests 4.35 instead of the 4.43 the Combine people say he ran. Looks like we got a Taylor Mays/USC booster on the Board ?

Texans_Chick
03-02-2010, 08:24 PM
Rather than saying, can you elaborate on exactly what is being depicted? :-)

I have been on the road for what seems forever and not as plugged in to the combine.

The original time given for Taylor Mays was 4.24. Then some people tweeted that scouts had him at 4.30. The "official" NFL network time is 4.43.

The difference between the first time and the official time is huge. Or like Chris Johnson tweeted...like Stevie Wonder doing the timing.

The NFL network does this overlay thing where they show stride for stride how different players do activities, like running. So you can see their relative acceleration. This is the screen shot of a finish for a number of the fastest players.

The Rich Eisen one they have over at NFL.com is hilarious. He ran the 40 again and the way they directed it was very funny--tho the slo mo was a brutality.

Texans_Chick
03-02-2010, 08:27 PM
The 40s are being superimposed upon each other and the implication is Mays ran a time faster than Bests 4.35 instead of the 4.43 the Combine people say he ran. Looks like we got a Taylor Mays/USC booster on the Board ?

No, not a booster. I just think that a lot of the reps that players get during the combine become exaggerated caricatures based on "what people are saying." There becomes a group think that becomes the new reality.

IDEXAN
03-02-2010, 08:33 PM
Which is stupid. Everyone has seen his film. Everyone considered him a top 10 pick and the consensus #1 CB before he ran the 40 and now because he ran a "bad" time he's suddenly not worth that pick? No, I don't think so. I don't care how fast or slow he runs the forty-yard dash, the kid can play CB and I would still draft him in the top 10 regardless. The 40 has nothing to do with a kid's ability to play the position. Scouts saying otherwise is just their way of trying to over-evaluate the draft process.

The 40 is generally overrated for most positions, but not for corner-backs.
A first-rate shut-down corner had better be able to run stride for stride
down the sideline in a dead sprint when an Andre Johnson runs a fly-pattern and if he can't then a fast WY like Johnson gets seperation and the corner needs help over the top from a safety. And shut-down corners don't need safety help.
They don't use top 10 picks on anything but first-rate corners so Haden can't expect to be drafted that high if he can't even break 4.6. No way he gets
drafted anywhere in the top half of the first round if even in the top round at all.

Honoring Earl 34
03-02-2010, 08:39 PM
No, not a booster. I just think that a lot of the reps that players get during the combine become exaggerated caricatures based on "what people are saying." There becomes a group think that becomes the new reality.

Scott Wright had him in the high 4.2s . This after going back and timing the replay to verify it .

This is a tough one for me because I might bite if Earl Thomas is gone . Why ... cause a big safety ( if he was a sure tackler ) to lay the lumber to the running QBs in our division plus CJ and MJD would be nice . If he could harrass Dallas Clark , that would be a bonus . A guy with this type of size/speed is rare . Besides if he can't cover we can move him to OLB or RB ... right .

beerlover
03-02-2010, 08:42 PM
I could see the attraction of taking another elite USC prospect. The last one seemed to turn out so well its tempting, but in Mays case it all comes down to his game tape, that was also exposed in simple drills he did not excell in, no doubt his athletic measureables are fantastic. He seemed more complete his junior year maybe his on field success was attributable to one of his teammates who left for the NFL? Cushing could probably shed some light on this subject, how much did he rely on help with assignments, just how much direction does he need?

Texans_Chick
03-02-2010, 08:42 PM
Scott Wright had him in the high 4.2s . This after going back and timing the replay to verify it .

This is a tough one for me because I might bite if Earl Thomas is gone . Why ... cause a big safety ( if he was a sure tackler ) to lay the lumber to the running QBs in our division plus CJ and MJD would be nice . If he could harrass Dallas Clark , that would be a bonus . A guy with this type of size/strength is rare . Besides he can't cover we can move him to OLB or RB ... right .

I took him my first mock when Thomas was gone. And who knows, maybe if Thomas played for four years people would be nitpicking his game.

awtysst
03-02-2010, 08:43 PM
If Mays is there at #20, we may pick him up. It will be very difficult to pass him up. Don't you think? But it's so funny that I can actually see Al doing that tho.

Why would we take him? He is Roy WIlliams the saftey part II. What did he do at the combine to remove that thought? Absolutely nothing. He is a classic Saftey-WILL tweaner and we already have his predecessor on the Practice Squad: Darnell Bing. Why would we want another one?

Ole Miss Texan
03-02-2010, 08:43 PM
No, not a booster. I just think that a lot of the reps that players get during the combine become exaggerated caricatures based on "what people are saying." There becomes a group think that becomes the new reality.
Totally agree with you, but this mentality about Mays has been around for 2 years.
Sorry to burst this bubble but the Raiders do not have a 3rd round pick this year, they traded it to New England.
What!? son of al davis... I looked at seattle trading up for ot charles brown but they didn't have a 3rd. then i went to washington but i dont think they have a 3rd. i think one i did with kansas city, they had a 3rd.

Have them throw in Michael Bush instead of the 3rd and we'll be alright. :)

Jackie Chiles
03-02-2010, 08:46 PM
Why would we take him? He is Roy WIlliams the saftey part II. What did he do at the combine to remove that thought? Absolutely nothing. He is a classic Saftey-WILL tweaner and we already have his predecessor on the Practice Squad: Darnell Bing. Why would we want another one?

Those guys are tweeners because they can't run. Mays can run circles around Williams and pretty much all the other defensive backs in this draft.

IDEXAN
03-02-2010, 08:51 PM
Mays will probably yet run his sub 4.3 this year but at his teams Pro-Day. Now if you want to accept that time that the USC crowd says their golden-boy runs, well I've got some real attractive Louisiana real estate that would be the perfect site your new home. Its got a real good price !
And did anybody else see Mays runs his positional drills today ? If so, you saw what looked like a drunk on roller skates. He's not a DB, but he could be a helluva WIL with his size and speed.

Honoring Earl 34
03-02-2010, 08:52 PM
I took him my first mock when Thomas was gone. And who knows, maybe if Thomas played for four years people would be nitpicking his game.

I think there's a lot of depth in what the Texans need but I don't think a first tier need player will be there at 20 . Mays has 1st tier numbers and if he can be coached ... watch out . If he can't and plays special teams ... watch out .

Lucky
03-02-2010, 09:35 PM
The NFL network does this overlay thing where they show stride for stride how different players do activities, like running. So you can see their relative acceleration. This is the screen shot of a finish for a number of the fastest players.
If Mays' time was wrong, who's to say that the other times today are not wrong? Or maybe the times today were correct and the previous days were wrong? It makes me question much of the information received from Indy.

Berry, Mays, or Thomas would look great in a Texan uniform. I still think the Texans need to do a better job of controlling the line of scrimmage. So I would prefer seeing a defensive tackle, all things being equal. But I wouldn't complain about a Mays or Thomas in the 1st round.

ArlingtonTexan
03-02-2010, 09:37 PM
I took him my first mock when Thomas was gone. And who knows, maybe if Thomas played for four years people would be nitpicking his game.

There is something to this, but 5 interceptions over 3 years for a DB is not that good.

Now, to talk out of the other side of the mouth, when coaches and scouts are looking at specific players they are thinking about how a players fits into specific things that the team wants to do. Mays is a player that if you ask him to do the right things he can be a superstar, but in the wrong system looks awful. Whether the Texans have the right system is a big question. If you look at the last two first rounders: Brown and Cushing they fit into the Texans systems perfectly. An organization needs clarity about what it is looking for because the guys like Berry and Thomas who fit into any system at the same level of play are more exceptins than rules.

Texans_Chick
03-02-2010, 09:46 PM
If Mays' time was wrong, who's to say that the other times today are not wrong? Or maybe the times today were correct and the previous days were wrong? It makes me question much of the information received from Indy.

Berry, Mays, or Thomas would look great in a Texan uniform. I still think the Texans need to do a better job of controlling the line of scrimmage. So I would prefer seeing a defensive tackle, all things being equal. But I wouldn't complain about a Mays or Thomas in the 1st round.

I'd prefer seeing a quality defensive tackle but boy howdy, there have been some really sketchy choices on the defensive line in recent years. Can't miss players missing (or like my blog post the other day that quoted a much read draft site comparing Okoye to Reggie Freaking White).

The defensive line is such a premium position that teams tend overdraft near the top of the draft. Hard to say that recent year drafts are busts, but DT is a position where guys have to grow into it.

I'd almost prefer a middle of the pack journeyman FA who is physically developed and understands technique and what it takes to play in the NFL over another baby DT. I'd like the special rookie DT for the team, but can they identify him?

Mr teX
03-02-2010, 09:50 PM
Which is stupid. Everyone has seen his film. Everyone considered him a top 10 pick and the consensus #1 CB before he ran the 40 and now because he ran a "bad" time he's suddenly not worth that pick? No, I don't think so. I don't care how fast or slow he runs the forty-yard dash, the kid can play CB and I would still draft him in the top 10 regardless. The 40 has nothing to do with a kid's ability to play the position. Scouts saying otherwise is just their way of trying to over-evaluate the draft process.

You are absolutely nuts. the 40 probably matters more for a cb than any other position on the field. The guy on NFL network explained it best when he said "they don't call it make up speed for nothing". meaning, if you get beat & don't have the speed to make up the stagger, you're done. Isn't that part of the justification for those wanting Dunta outta here; b/c he's lost a step & couldn't keep up with the speedsters? Next to technique, speed is the number 1 requirement for a great db & to be honest, Haden didn't look all that great doing that either which is why analysts are saying he left the door open in the 1st place.

IDEXAN
03-02-2010, 09:55 PM
If Mays' time was wrong, who's to say that the other times today are not wrong? Or maybe the times today were correct and the previous days were wrong? It makes me question much of the information received from Indy.

I'm not totally comfortable with the Indy info either, but do you really feel any better about what the schools put out about their own athletes on ProDays ?

Mr teX
03-02-2010, 09:58 PM
Totally agree with you, but this mentality about Mays has been around for 2 years.

What!? son of al davis... I looked at seattle trading up for ot charles brown but they didn't have a 3rd. then i went to washington but i dont think they have a 3rd. i think one i did with kansas city, they had a 3rd.

Have them throw in Michael Bush instead of the 3rd and we'll be alright. :)

If this talk were out about mays last year, he wouldn't have been considered a consensus top 5 pick. All of this came about after this past season when USC couldn't get any pressure on the Qb & left the secondary exposed, which is basically what has been happening to us every year of our existence.

Hervoyel
03-02-2010, 10:44 PM
If Mays had some pass coverage skills and tackling skills he'd be scary good. He's got all the physical skills, I wonder if he can learn pass coverage skills, learn to play the ball and not the WR, and surely he can learn to wrap up when tackling.

I've seen guys come here and "un-learn" basic football skills like that so I can only assume it's possible for it to work the other way.

wagonhed
03-02-2010, 10:47 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDhYKZHKh4Q

WolverineFan
03-02-2010, 11:25 PM
You are absolutely nuts. the 40 probably matters more for a cb than any other position on the field. The guy on NFL network explained it best when he said "they don't call it make up speed for nothing". meaning, if you get beat & don't have the speed to make up the stagger, you're done. Isn't that part of the justification for those wanting Dunta outta here; b/c he's lost a step & couldn't keep up with the speedsters? Next to technique, speed is the number 1 requirement for a great db & to be honest, Haden didn't look all that great doing that either which is why analysts are saying he left the door open in the 1st place.

No, people who just know nothing about CB think it is the most important thing. I played CB pretty much my entire football career. I was never the fastest guy on the field and was usually the smallest. Never got beat deep. Technique and instincts beat speed every damn day of the week.

Also, if you have great technique then you don't need "make up speed" because you are always in good position and not getting beat in the first place.

On top of that, I can name 5 things right now that are more important to being a CB than top-end speed.

1) Technique
2) Instincts
3) Confidence
4) Intelligence
5) Quickness

All of these things are more important than top-end speed. Now if this was a 2nd-3rd round prospect that ran those times then I would agree that his draft stock is dropping. However, Haden was a consensus top 10 pick based on FILM, which is the only thing that really matters, and just because he ran a sub-par 40 has nothing to do with his ability to play the position. It is a way for some of these bonehead scouts and internet GM's to try and prove how much they know, or don't know.

WolverineFan
03-02-2010, 11:36 PM
Also, if anyone else knows anything about strength training and training for these types of drills then I think you'll agree with me that Haden's starting form was terrible. He was completely off balance to start and got a very weak first step. I would expect his time to be much better at his pro day.

He also looked fantastic in his position drills. Anybody saying that he will drop out of the 1st round is a fool.

Ole Miss Texan
03-03-2010, 01:19 AM
If this talk were out about mays last year, he wouldn't have been considered a consensus top 5 pick. All of this came about after this past season when USC couldn't get any pressure on the Qb & left the secondary exposed, which is basically what has been happening to us every year of our existence.
He had a lot of hype for the exact same reasons why he does today, physical freak. Closer draft time he wasn't considered a consensus top 5 pick, everyone thought he'd go #10 to SF or #12 to Denver. The knocks on Mays are nothing new and this past season hasn't caused any of it... the same problems were discussed last year as we are doing right now: poor coverage skills, goes for the big hit, wreckless, not a wrap up tackler. We're having the exact same debate we did 12 months ago. The minute he decided to go back to school was the minute he became at best the #2 safety in this class- everyone knew Eric Berry was better and nothing changed that.

Also, if he was exposed b/c of USC's lack of ability to create pressure on the QB then how is he going to help here?

Ole Miss Texan
03-03-2010, 01:21 AM
Also, if anyone else knows anything about strength training and training for these types of drills then I think you'll agree with me that Haden's starting form was terrible. He was completely off balance to start and got a very weak first step. I would expect his time to be much better at his pro day.

He also looked fantastic in his position drills. Anybody saying that he will drop out of the 1st round is a fool.
I'd like watching CB drills when they back pedal, flip their hips and then run out b/c that mirrors what they're doing on the football field. Not coming out of a track stance running straight.

Ole Miss Texan
03-03-2010, 01:23 AM
To give credit where credit is due though, that video clip from nfl network was impressive. Mays beasted over the other smaller players and was just as fast. I would not want to get hit by this guy at all.

SAMURAITEXAN
03-03-2010, 04:30 AM
Why would we take him? He is Roy WIlliams the saftey part II. What did he do at the combine to remove that thought? Absolutely nothing. He is a classic Saftey-WILL tweaner and we already have his predecessor on the Practice Squad: Darnell Bing. Why would we want another one?

awtysst, let me get this straight. First of all, I am not on Mays' bandwagon. My post was posted when he ran 4.24(unofficial time) and clearly said we MAY pick him up at #20. Other reasons of Mays posted in my earlier post so please read it. Anyway, what I am saying is that with Mays measurement and 4.24 speed, worth a hard look about this prospect. That was all I was trying to say.

Now, I have a question to you awtysst, how can you be so certain that he will be Roy Williams the safety part II? I can understand someone questioning his ability due to his 2009 performance and he may be Roy Williams safety part II.
But, can't be certain about how he will play at the next level. Can you?

I am just a fan of the Texans and not an expert. But I do believe, Mays may become legit 1st rd Safety prospect at least more than I used to think. But who knows he may not.

phantom17
03-03-2010, 08:48 AM
Yeah! I can see Al jumping off his chair just about now.



You mean jumping out from his grave!:evil:

WolverineFan
03-03-2010, 10:02 AM
awtysst, let me get this straight. First of all, I am not on Mays' bandwagon. My post was posted when he ran 4.24(unofficial time) and clearly said we MAY pick him up at #20. Other reasons of Mays posted in my earlier post so please read it. Anyway, what I am saying is that with Mays measurement and 4.24 speed, worth a hard look about this prospect. That was all I was trying to say.

Now, I have a question to you awtysst, how can you be so certain that he will be Roy Williams the safety part II? I can understand someone questioning his ability due to his 2009 performance and he may be Roy Williams safety part II.
But, can't be certain about how he will play at the next level. Can you?

I am just a fan of the Texans and not an expert. But I do believe, Mays may become legit 1st rd Safety prospect at least more than I used to think. But who knows he may not.

I'll continue to say it. As a SS prospect, Mays is a top 15 player in this draft. But as a FS prospect he's not in the top 30, despite his measurables. If the Texans needed a SS then I would take him at 20 no problem, but we don't. We need a ballhawking type FS and that's not Mays. That's Eric Berry and Earl Thomas.

b0ng
03-03-2010, 11:54 AM
Watching the replay there's no way Mays ran anything above a 4.4. It doesn't look Chris Johnson fast, but he's easily one of the two or three fastest guys in the Combine.

Knowing this doesn't change my stance because it was well rumored that he would run a fast 40. I really just don't like his game in comparison to Thomas, and maybe that is because Mays played his senior season. But it is what it is, and game film rarely tells lies.

Ole Miss Texan
03-03-2010, 12:02 PM
Knowing this doesn't change my stance because it was well rumored that he would run a fast 40. I really just don't like his game in comparison to Thomas, and maybe that is because Mays played his senior season. But it is what it is, and game film rarely tells lies.
This is one thing that I don't understand how people can use as an excuse or an arguement though. It makes zero sense to me and it's used for all sorts of players (William Moore last year).

The arguement is basically: if he came out last year he would have been a high draft pick. However, he played an extra year in college which gave scouts more games/more film to watch and analyze him. There's now a bigger body of work to judge him on. But sense it didn't help him, it shouldn't count... it shouldn't be allowed to hurt him.

That mindset makes absolutely no sense to me.

b0ng
03-03-2010, 01:26 PM
This is one thing that I don't understand how people can use as an excuse or an arguement though. It makes zero sense to me and it's used for all sorts of players (William Moore last year).

The arguement is basically: if he came out last year he would have been a high draft pick. However, he played an extra year in college which gave scouts more games/more film to watch and analyze him. There's now a bigger body of work to judge him on. But sense it didn't help him, it shouldn't count... it shouldn't be allowed to hurt him.

That mindset makes absolutely no sense to me.

This is why you just leave as a junior now. If he would've went last year there's no way he wouldn't have gone in the top 10 (That combine time is going to be poured over a lot before the draft). Instead he placed doubt in the minds of lots of scouts by having a ho-hum senior season and some people are mad he's not held in such high regard.

He still has a chance to go top 10 (Raiders at #8 though as somebody alluded to.) but it's nowhere near the chance it would've been last year. I didn't think USC really had a chance to win the championship with some of the best parts of the defense leaving, so why he stayed is a real mystery to me.

If the Texans did some kind of crazy trade down, and got him extremely late in the first with a few more picks in the 2nd 3rd and 4th rounds I wouldn't be too sour on him. Picking him straight up at 20 (especially if there are other DB's available such as Thomas, Hayden, or maybe one random DB that I determine later) would definitely leave a nasty after taste.

Mailman
03-03-2010, 02:21 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDhYKZHKh4Q

MoveTheSticks tweet (http://twitter.com/MoveTheSticks/status/9893922870) -- I'm in Dallas on my way home. I guess there were issues with the electronic time for Mays. I talked to two scouts and they had him 430, 428

SAMURAITEXAN
03-03-2010, 03:14 PM
You mean jumping out from his grave!:evil:

Ha ha. Please be nice to an old man as he only has a few more miles left in his tank.

SAMURAITEXAN
03-03-2010, 03:20 PM
I'll continue to say it. As a SS prospect, Mays is a top 15 player in this draft. But as a FS prospect he's not in the top 30, despite his measurables. If the Texans needed a SS then I would take him at 20 no problem, but we don't. We need a ballhawking type FS and that's not Mays. That's Eric Berry and Earl Thomas.

I can see your take. He may also able to play situational LB position as well. Very intriging prospect.

rollinstone18
03-03-2010, 03:39 PM
mays may not be a ballhawk, but he is a centerfielder. just thinking of the intensity our defense would have with mays, pollard, cushing, antonio, mario and meco....that's something to fear. i'd feel better if we still had dunta but i wouldn't hesitate to draft mays if thomas or dan williams are off the board.

Mr teX
03-03-2010, 03:56 PM
No, people who just know nothing about CB think it is the most important thing. I played CB pretty much my entire football career. I was never the fastest guy on the field and was usually the smallest. Never got beat deep. Technique and instincts beat speed every damn day of the week.

Also, if you have great technique then you don't need "make up speed" because you are always in good position and not getting beat in the first place.

On top of that, I can name 5 things right now that are more important to being a CB than top-end speed.

1) Technique
2) Instincts
3) Confidence
4) Intelligence
5) Quickness

All of these things are more important than top-end speed. Now if this was a 2nd-3rd round prospect that ran those times then I would agree that his draft stock is dropping. However, Haden was a consensus top 10 pick based on FILM, which is the only thing that really matters, and just because he ran a sub-par 40 has nothing to do with his ability to play the position. It is a way for some of these bonehead scouts and internet GM's to try and prove how much they know, or don't know.


Well, Forgive me if i go with the opinions 100's of pro scouts, former players and my own experience as a db in my "career" lol.

Im not saying speed is the only thing that matters for a cb, but i believe it matters more than you would like to let on for them.

For 1, every cb that matters or has mattered in the league over the last umpteen years or so has been a 4.4 guy or better coming out of college..that's not an accident.

2nd, speed is the no. 1 problem rookies have trouble with when they make the leap from college to the nfl, & that's true across the board. So how do you figure it is the 6th most important attribute for a player who's job it is to shadow the fastest guys on the field? Technique can only do so much.

3rd, I think people look at the 40 in the wrong way. it doesn't just show top end speed. it also provides a very good look at acceleration, aka how fast that player can get to top end speed. This goes with the quickness & closing speed factor you cited above and has important ramifications for a cb when you are beat. And make no mistake about it, you will get beat from time to time in the NFL; depending on your closing speed, it can be the difference between a regular gain & a TD depending on the situation. To sum it up, these aren't things that you can coach up like technique, intelligence etc.

For Haden's sake, i hope his slow time was just a fluke due to terrible starting form, but no way should he be drafted in the top 10 if his 40 time is anywhere near what it was at the NFL combine, i don't care what his tape says.

wagonhed
03-03-2010, 05:31 PM
Deion Sanders, considered both the best CB and the fastest player in the NFL during his time (unless I'm remembering wrong about the speed thing, certainly one of the fastest). Doesn't that say something about speed for CBs?

Personally I've always thought that speed and agility in a CB were more important than almost any physical attribute in other positions, more important than strength for Oline, speed for WRs, agility in RBs, quickness in DEs, etc.

Ole Miss Texan
03-03-2010, 09:46 PM
For what its worth I think Asante Samuel ran a 4.5 and he's got like the most interceptions of any CB in the league.

I can see it going one of two ways. (1) Kubiak/Smith see Mays' incredible talent and think they can coach him to work out in whatever safety system we run/will run. or (2) Kubiak/Smith think Mays doesnt have the instinct of a football player they want and completely dismiss him.

kiwitexansfan
03-03-2010, 09:50 PM
I could see us taking him, that USC team was not the same team as it has been last year. It is understandable a DB struggling with the front 7 not performing.

I think ideally if we could slip down a few spots, get some more picks, and then grab Mays I'd be happy

BigBull17
03-04-2010, 11:03 AM
Scott Wright had him in the high 4.2s . This after going back and timing the replay to verify it .

This is a tough one for me because I might bite if Earl Thomas is gone . Why ... cause a big safety ( if he was a sure tackler ) to lay the lumber to the running QBs in our division plus CJ and MJD would be nice . If he could harrass Dallas Clark , that would be a bonus . A guy with this type of size/speed is rare . Besides if he can't cover we can move him to OLB or RB ... right .

If we still want interchangable safties, the we take him. If we want a ball hawk, we pass. Simple stuff.

Texecutioner
03-04-2010, 01:06 PM
Well, Forgive me if i go with the opinions 100's of pro scouts, former players and my own experience as a db in my "career" lol.

Im not saying speed is the only thing that matters for a cb, but i believe it matters more than you would like to let on for them.

For 1, every cb that matters or has mattered in the league over the last umpteen years or so has been a 4.4 guy or better coming out of college..that's not an accident.

2nd, speed is the no. 1 problem rookies have trouble with when they make the leap from college to the nfl, & that's true across the board. So how do you figure it is the 6th most important attribute for a player who's job it is to shadow the fastest guys on the field? Technique can only do so much.

3rd, I think people look at the 40 in the wrong way. it doesn't just show top end speed. it also provides a very good look at acceleration, aka how fast that player can get to top end speed. This goes with the quickness & closing speed factor you cited above and has important ramifications for a cb when you are beat. And make no mistake about it, you will get beat from time to time in the NFL; depending on your closing speed, it can be the difference between a regular gain & a TD depending on the situation. To sum it up, these aren't things that you can coach up like technique, intelligence etc.

For Haden's sake, i hope his slow time was just a fluke due to terrible starting form, but no way should he be drafted in the top 10 if his 40 time is anywhere near what it was at the NFL combine, i don't care what his tape says.

Agreed. Speed is a very important factor for any DB and especially corners. All the technique in the world isn't going to help you if you're D line isn't getting pressure on the QB and you're having to run toe to toe with a speedy WR on a long ball or a slant down the field. Technique and skill is still very important, but the speed has to be there and quickness as well which has to do with recovery on plays where you get faked and can get back in position. Those aren't always skills that you can teach. You either have it or you don't.

bah007
03-04-2010, 09:38 PM
I'm not worried about Haden. If you saw his form then you would realize he is faster than that time.

Reading a route, turning your hips, and covering a guy for 40 yards is not comparable in any way to running 40 yards in a straight line from a sprinter's stance.

If he had showed great technique while making that run then I would be worried about his top end speed. But some of the fastest guys in the 40 are slower on the field because there are several ways to cheat the clock in a 40 yard dash (not literally cheat, but improve technique).

The technique you use while running a 40 yard dash is not the same as the technique you use with pads on and a football in the air, nor should it be.

Mr teX
03-05-2010, 09:48 AM
I'm not worried about Haden. If you saw his form then you would realize he is faster than that time.

Reading a route, turning your hips, and covering a guy for 40 yards is not comparable in any way to running 40 yards in a straight line from a sprinter's stance.

If he had showed great technique while making that run then I would be worried about his top end speed. But some of the fastest guys in the 40 are slower on the field because there are several ways to cheat the clock in a 40 yard dash (not literally cheat, but improve technique).

The technique you use while running a 40 yard dash is not the same as the technique you use with pads on and a football in the air, nor should it be.

yeah, but the question is HOW much faster is he from what he ran at the combine. I mean, he did run a 4.6 on his 2nd one & i know there are ways to improve your time via technique but dude would have to shave damn near a full second off his 40 time to get in that speed range for teams to feel comfortable selecting him that high. Everyone knows that colleges exagerate 40 times for their players but Florida in particular has taken huge hits over the last couple of years when it comes to this and thier "fastest team in america" mantra.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/blog/dr_saturday/post/Fine-we-get-it-Florida-is-fast-There-s-no-nee?urn=ncaaf,147026

here's another after Haden's NFL combine 40's.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/blog/dr_saturday/post/Haden-Mays-reminds-us-again-to-beware-the-cult-?urn=ncaaf,225322

Ckw
03-05-2010, 10:16 AM
Wrong thread....

b0ng
03-05-2010, 04:58 PM
yeah, but the question is HOW much faster is he from what he ran at the combine. I mean, he did run a 4.6 on his 2nd one & i know there are ways to improve your time via technique but dude would have to shave damn near a full second off his 40 time to get in that speed range for teams to feel comfortable selecting him that high. Everyone knows that colleges exagerate 40 times for their players but Florida in particular has taken huge hits over the last couple of years when it comes to this and thier "fastest team in america" mantra.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/blog/dr_saturday/post/Fine-we-get-it-Florida-is-fast-There-s-no-nee?urn=ncaaf,147026

here's another after Haden's NFL combine 40's.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/blog/dr_saturday/post/Haden-Mays-reminds-us-again-to-beware-the-cult-?urn=ncaaf,225322

I'm hoping you mean a tenth of a second. Otherwise he might as well train in track and field and go to the Olypmics.

Dutchrudder
03-05-2010, 05:46 PM
Why is anyone talking about the Texans drafting a SS? We have Bernard Pollard, who is a hell of a lot better than this rookie will be. He proved himself this year, and as long as Pollard keeps it up, there's no need to waste a first round pick on a strong position.

WolverineFan
03-05-2010, 05:51 PM
Why is anyone talking about the Texans drafting a SS? We have Bernard Pollard, who is a hell of a lot better than this rookie will be. He proved himself this year, and as long as Pollard keeps it up, there's no need to waste a first round pick on a strong position.

It's because Mays is being hyped up as a FS prospect despite his film providing overwhelming evidence to the contrary. If he ran a 4.5 then scouts would see the light and project him as a SS, but he runs a 4.3 so they will continue to push the idea of him being a deep safety down everyone's throat.

Dutchrudder
03-05-2010, 06:05 PM
It's because Mays is being hyped up as a FS prospect despite his film providing overwhelming evidence to the contrary. If he ran a 4.5 then scouts would see the light and project him as a SS, but he runs a 4.3 so they will continue to push the idea of him being a deep safety down everyone's throat.

Ah, that makes a little more sense, but I still don't see him being a FS at the NFL level. I guess this is also assuming that Earl Thomas isn't there when they pick. Sad, I was hoping they would get him. :(

Gymrat2005
03-06-2010, 02:39 AM
I want everyone to mark my words when I say this,Taylor Mays will not be a Texan,Even in 2008 with that Defence he still wouldnt play the ball,the dude has below average ball skills

He is a Vernon Davis 2.0

1.We dont need a SS,we have Pollard

2.Alot of teams have Converted their safety's to outside linebackers over the years if they just arent hacking it,we have arguebly the best LB core in the NFL right now.

3.If we do draft a safety,it will be the Quentisential FS by the book all around ball hawk,not Taylor Mays by any means,he can lay the wood,he can run sub 4.4,and he is 230 pounds. But he is and never will be a ballhawk.

He is not worth a 1st round pick to teach the guy how to play the ball,if he couldnt do it in college.

What makes some of you think he can learn to in the pro's?

TheRealJoker
03-06-2010, 05:09 PM
I'd be interested to hear if Cushing has been pushing Mays to the Texans coaching staff. I think he played himself out of the 1st round but if he's still there in the 2nd round I wouldn't mind the Texans picking him up. Mays might do a lot better with the talent we have on defense vs what USC had after the NFL fleeced them in 08.

1st round however, we need someone with better instincts, even if they aren't as physically impressive.

WolverineFan
03-06-2010, 05:19 PM
I'd be interested to hear if Cushing has been pushing Mays to the Texans coaching staff. I think he played himself out of the 1st round but if he's still there in the 2nd round I wouldn't mind the Texans picking him up. Mays might do a lot better with the talent we have on defense vs what USC had after the NFL fleeced them in 08.

1st round however, we need someone with better instincts, even if they aren't as physically impressive.

NFL scouts are stupid. Any player that weighs 230+ and can run a 4.3 will get drafted in the 1st round. No way he drops out of the 1st. His game tape says 2nd round pick at best (as a FS at least), but his measureables say top 10 pick. Which do you think NFL teams will put more stock into?

If someone drafts him in the top 15 as a SS then I will give them at least an A- for that pick. If anybody drafts him in the 1st round as a FS I will give them an F. Somebody will draft him in the 1st though, you can bet on that.

bah007
03-07-2010, 11:18 AM
NFL scouts are stupid. Any player that weighs 230+ and can run a 4.3 will get drafted in the 1st round. No way he drops out of the 1st. His game tape says 2nd round pick at best (as a FS at least), but his measureables say top 10 pick. Which do you think NFL teams will put more stock into?

If someone drafts him in the top 15 as a SS then I will give them at least an A- for that pick. If anybody drafts him in the 1st round as a FS I will give them an F. Somebody will draft him in the 1st though, you can bet on that.

It's not the scouts that are the problem. There is always that one coach with an ego big enough to convince himself that he can be the one that helps the guy reach his full potential.

Mr teX
03-07-2010, 11:57 AM
I remember hearing this same crap about Landry vs. Nelson in 2007. Landry's a SS in the league & Nelson is the better FS prospect, Landry doesn't have the speed, he's not a ballhawk, no ball skills, technique etc, etc. Well, for a guy who supposedly couldn't play the free safety spot in the league, he's faired damn good...at least as good if not better than the "better" free safety prospect.

Is Mays rough around the edges? yes but that doesn't preclude him from being as good a prospect at the position as thomas b/c everything that's "wrong" with him can be coached up.

& for those talking about his tape, unless you're an NFL scout with access to game tape that shows him play in play out, you're basically looking at the same things i'm looking at & reading the same things from the same people.

WolverineFan
03-07-2010, 12:25 PM
I remember hearing this same crap about Landry vs. Nelson in 2007. Landry's a SS in the league & Nelson is the better FS prospect, Landry doesn't have the speed, he's not a ballhawk, no ball skills, technique etc, etc. Well, for a guy who supposedly couldn't play the free safety spot in the league, he's faired damn good...at least as good if not better than the "better" free safety prospect.

I don't know where you're getting this from but Landry had great ball skills coming out of college and he was pretty good in coverage too. He was just used more in run support by LSU because he was a beast. He also burned a 4.4 at the combine so speed was not an issue.

It was also pretty much a consensus that for all the hype around Nelson that Landry was going to be the better player.

Is Mays rough around the edges? yes but that doesn't preclude him from being as good a prospect at the position as thomas b/c everything that's "wrong" with him can be coached up.

You can't coach someone to have the instincts to play FS. You either have them or you don't. You can teach him how to wrap-up instead of trying to kill shot everyone. You can teach him to read his keys and to have a coverage first mindset. You can run him through drills to improve his ball skills and improve his coverage skills. But you cannot play FS just because you can burn a 4.3 forty-yard dash and right now that's the only reason he's projected to be a FS.

Some GM and coach are going to convince themselves that they can do just that, but they are going to be making a mistake.

& for those talking about his tape, unless you're an NFL scout with access to game tape that shows him play in play out, you're basically looking at the same things i'm looking at & reading the same things from the same people.

Or you just watch a ton of college football. It's not like there's some secret gametape warehouse that only NFL scouts have access to. Also, if you are serious about scouting players and have an interest in it there are a ton of places you can do so using the internet. I've watched Mays closely for the past 2 years because he was considered an elite talent at Safety in the NFL. I'll tell you right now if we needed a SS then I would draft him instantly. But if you need a FS then stay away.

Mr teX
03-07-2010, 01:35 PM
I don't know where you're getting this from but Landry had great ball skills coming out of college and he was pretty good in coverage too. He was just used more in run support by LSU because he was a beast. He also burned a 4.4 at the combine so speed was not an issue.

It was also pretty much a consensus that for all the hype around Nelson that Landry was going to be the better player.



You can't coach someone to have the instincts to play FS. You either have them or you don't. You can teach him how to wrap-up instead of trying to kill shot everyone. You can teach him to read his keys and to have a coverage first mindset. You can run him through drills to improve his ball skills and improve his coverage skills. But you cannot play FS just because you can burn a 4.3 forty-yard dash and right now that's the only reason he's projected to be a FS.

Some GM and coach are going to convince themselves that they can do just that, but they are going to be making a mistake.



Or you just watch a ton of college football. It's not like there's some secret gametape warehouse that only NFL scouts have access to. Also, if you are serious about scouting players and have an interest in it there are a ton of places you can do so using the internet. I've watched Mays closely for the past 2 years because he was considered an elite talent at Safety in the NFL. I'll tell you right now if we needed a SS then I would draft him instantly. But if you need a FS then stay away.

good post maybe i just remember alot of that from this board on Landry Nevertheless, we'll just agree to disagree. I think with the right coaching & system, the guy could flourish at either safety spot. There are many reasons why the kid struggled last year; injuries, young core group of guys around him.

bah007
03-07-2010, 06:58 PM
good post maybe i just remember alot of that from this board on Landry Nevertheless, we'll just agree to disagree. I think with the right coaching & system, the guy could flourish at either safety spot. There are many reasons why the kid struggled last year; injuries, young core group of guys around him.

The majority of the posters on this board had a hard on for Nelson so you probably did read those things here. I got blasted here when I had the audacity to suggest that we should take Michael Griffin instead of Nelson if we had the choice.

JB
03-07-2010, 07:04 PM
The majority of the posters on this board had a hard on for Nelson so you probably did read those things here. I got blasted here when I had the audacity to suggest that we should take Michael Griffin instead of Nelson if we had the choice.

I wasnt on the MB then, but I was reading daily. I thought that Landry was the next coming of Ronnie Lott!

bah007
03-07-2010, 07:19 PM
I wasnt on the MB then, but I was reading daily. I thought that Landry was the next coming of Ronnie Lott!

A lot of the posters who have been on here for a while were really wanting Landry. I thought he would be awesome but didn't see us as having a realistic shot at drafting him.

After Nelson ran a 4.22 at Florida's Pro Day we were bombarded by Nelson fanboys when hardly anybody had even wanted him before that.

JB
03-07-2010, 07:26 PM
A lot of the posters who have been on here for a while were really wanting Landry. I thought he would be awesome but didn't see us as having a realistic shot at drafting him.

After Nelson ran a 4.22 at Florida's Pro Day we were bombarded by Nelson fanboys when hardly anybody had even wanted him before that.

Nelson was never in the picture for me. I wanted Landry or Peterson to fall to us. Next choice was Griffin and then Revis. But I was really pleased when Amobi fell to our spot.