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LZ
02-27-2010, 06:07 PM
Here is my the second version of my mock draft. I will have a much, much clearer mock draft within a week after speaking with some NFL people who are at the combine. There will be some shifting and I'll find out who a couple of teams are favoring.

http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2010/02/mock_draft_20_texans_get_a_cor.html

Texans34Life
02-27-2010, 06:14 PM
Hehe, LZ, I was just about to post this.... :)

Good analysis as always.

stingray
02-27-2010, 06:19 PM
You think Clausen will be Quinn 2.0? By that I mean dropping all the way into the teens or possible the twenties?

LZ
02-27-2010, 06:27 PM
You think Clausen will be Quinn 2.0? By that I mean dropping all the way into the teens or possible the twenties?

A scout told me "if you have any balls, you will drop him out of your first round - he sucks!"

I obviously didn't have the balls to do that, but before my mock was finished, I did have him at 30 to the Vikings at one point.

beerlover
02-27-2010, 08:04 PM
20. Houston - Kyle Wilson, CB, Boise State
Z-Report Says: It will be interesting to see if the Texans will pass on C.J. Spiller is on the board. This is a deep CB draft, but most NFL insiders feel like Wilson is one of the top 3 CBs on the board and if the Texans don't address this position via free agency, they probably need to do it within the first two rounds. If the Texans draft CB here, it wouldn't surprise me to see them move up a couple of spots in order to draft a RB they might covet.

love it. I've fast become territorial about Kyle, he would be a great fit here in Houston if still available. here are my notes so far -


natural, fluid hip turn creating instant redirect/change direction
cathes everything in his zone both over the top & dropped underneath
sits on routes reads QB patinet smooth back peddle, makes play on ball
does not back down, plays big in big games
shows excellent leadership, takes ownership of other teams #1 WR
physical despite size, better than advertised in run support
will hold position edge on WR forcing QB to take risks with ball
appetite for hard work & challanges, plays prepared

your contacts are right about Jimmy Claussen too, well at least you don't have him in top 10 kuddos!

Wolf6151
02-27-2010, 08:10 PM
I really hope St. Louis does take Bradford #1 overall, it'll mean another good player will fall a little, but I just don't see it happening. I also hope your right about Atlanta taking Weatherspoon and leaving Wilson for us but that pick makes me nervous because CB is a huge need for them as well. Also I don't see Eric Berry falling out of the top 10.

beerlover
02-27-2010, 11:16 PM
pick by pick breakdown

1. St.Louis - Sam Bradford, QB, Oklahoma
Bigger upside than Matt Stafford, QB is the most important position & St. Louis certainly needs one bad.
2. Detroit - Ndamukong Suh, DT, Nebraska
No arguement here either, but it is Detroit so McCoy is still possible.
3. Tampa Bay - Gerald McCoy, DT, Oklahoma
no brainer Suh or McCoy.
4. Washington - Russell Okung, LT, Oklahoma State
Bradford gone, take the top LT prospect from what I seen today he's it.
5. Kansas City - Brian Bulaga, LT, Iowa
think he is only 20, nasty football player should be solid for next 12-15 years.
6. Seattle - Anthony Davis, LT, Rutgers
His stock dropped in my opinion @ the combine. also tape shows inconsistancies. should drop out of the top 10.
7. Cleveland - Joe Haden, CB, Florida
I'm not so sure he is even the top CB anymore? not tested that much, only 4 int's & 10 break-ups as a junior.
8. Oakland - Trent Williams, OT, Oklahoma
you think Oakland is this smart? I think Trent is actually the #2 OT prospect in this draft. he is polished, versatile & very smooth with each task assigined.
9. Buffalo - Dez Bryant, WR, Oklahoma State
character issues, enigma, diva potential.
10. Jacksonville - Jason Pierre-Paul, DE, South Florida
have not seen him but everybody chatters. not worried because I think Brown can neutralize him.
11. Denver - Rolando McClain, MLB, Alabama
dominant defensive leader, great pick if still here.
12. Miami - Sergio Kindle, OLB, Texas
I could see this but think pick is based more on need than bpa. They should go C.J. Spiller here.
13. San Francisco - Eric Berry, FS, Tennessee
again don't see Barry falling this far maybe switch out with Haden?
14. Seattle - Derrick Morgan, DE, Georgia Tech
Was not impressed with his inability to seperate against Iowa, can be shutdown.
15. New York (N) - Dan Williams, DT, Tennessee
this pick I have not seen before but makes sense with injury concerns.
16. Tennessee - Earl Thomas, CB/FS, Texas
Yeah another bitter pill to swallow I see you working......
17. San Francisco - Jimmy Claussen, QB, Notre Dame
reminds me of a meerkat http://www.eicsd.k12.ny.us/staffweb/ksulli/images/meerkat-suricatasuricatta.jpg
18. Pittsburgh - Mike Iupati, LG, Idaho
I'll trust you on this one. for sure doesn't fit ZBS.
19. Atlanta - Sean Weatherspoon, LB, Missouri
love this pick, great leadership ability @ need position & leaves Texans-
20. Houston - Kyle Wilson, CB, Boise State
like taking candy from a baby (no babies were harmed in this exercise).
21. Cincinnati - Jermaine Gresham, TE, Oklahoma
he's got to have a clean bill of health to grade out this high.
22. New England - Jared Odrick, DT/DE, Penn State
totally down with this pick, top 3-4 DE in draft
23. Green Bay - C.J. Spiller, RB, Clemson
again don't see him out of the top 20, but how could you resist? after today just plug in Campbell, they must address OL.
24. Philadelphia - Carlos Dunlap, DE, Florida
why does it seem the Eagles always go DL in 1st? maybe Mays?
25. Baltimore - Golden Tate, WR, Notre Dame
much needed weapon to stretch field.
26. Arizona - Taylor Mays, FS, USC
could be a trade up with Green Bay to get Spiller & pair him with Wells, then Packers get Campbell?
27. Dallas - Bruce Campbell, OT, Maryland
Jerry wishes.
28. San Diego - Maurkice Pouncey, C/G, Floridadid not blow me away over other Center prospects @ combine, like to see them going Mathews or Dwyer.
29. NY Jets - Brandon Graham, DE, Michigan
great pick, not feeling great going into NY next season, Texans need to protect Schaub.
30. Minnesota - Ryan Matthews, RB, Fresno State
let the run on CB's begin one pick earlier.
31. Indianapolis - Patrick Robinson, CB, Florida State
Donovan Warren maybe if Patrick Robinson off board, don't think they have salary cap room to sign Dunta Robinson but wouldn't that be ironic, anybody ever think about that....Texans.....
32. New Orleans - Brian Price, DT, UCLA
could see this happening, monitor their free agent movement.

LZ
02-28-2010, 12:31 AM
pick by pick breakdown

1. St.Louis - Sam Bradford, QB, Oklahoma
Bigger upside than Matt Stafford, QB is the most important position & St. Louis certainly needs one bad.
2. Detroit - Ndamukong Suh, DT, Nebraska
No arguement here either, but it is Detroit so McCoy is still possible.
3. Tampa Bay - Gerald McCoy, DT, Oklahoma
no brainer Suh or McCoy.
4. Washington - Russell Okung, LT, Oklahoma State
Bradford gone, take the top LT prospect from what I seen today he's it.
5. Kansas City - Brian Bulaga, LT, Iowa
think he is only 20, nasty football player should be solid for next 12-15 years.
6. Seattle - Anthony Davis, LT, Rutgers
His stock dropped in my opinion @ the combine. also tape shows inconsistancies. should drop out of the top 10.
7. Cleveland - Joe Haden, CB, Florida
I'm not so sure he is even the top CB anymore? not tested that much, only 4 int's & 10 break-ups as a junior.
8. Oakland - Trent Williams, OT, Oklahoma
you think Oakland is this smart? I think Trent is actually the #2 OT prospect in this draft. he is polished, versatile & very smooth with each task assigined.
9. Buffalo - Dez Bryant, WR, Oklahoma State
character issues, enigma, diva potential.
10. Jacksonville - Jason Pierre-Paul, DE, South Florida
have not seen him but everybody chatters. not worried because I think Brown can neutralize him.
11. Denver - Rolando McClain, MLB, Alabama
dominant defensive leader, great pick if still here.
12. Miami - Sergio Kindle, OLB, Texas
I could see this but think pick is based more on need than bpa. They should go C.J. Spiller here.
13. San Francisco - Eric Berry, FS, Tennessee
again don't see Barry falling this far maybe switch out with Haden?
14. Seattle - Derrick Morgan, DE, Georgia Tech
Was not impressed with his inability to seperate against Iowa, can be shutdown.
15. New York (N) - Dan Williams, DT, Tennessee
this pick I have not seen before but makes sense with injury concerns.
16. Tennessee - Earl Thomas, CB/FS, Texas
Yeah another bitter pill to swallow I see you working......
17. San Francisco - Jimmy Claussen, QB, Notre Dame
reminds me of a meerkat http://www.eicsd.k12.ny.us/staffweb/ksulli/images/meerkat-suricatasuricatta.jpg
18. Pittsburgh - Mike Iupati, LG, Idaho
I'll trust you on this one. for sure doesn't fit ZBS.
19. Atlanta - Sean Weatherspoon, LB, Missouri
love this pick, great leadership ability @ need position & leaves Texans-
20. Houston - Kyle Wilson, CB, Boise State
like taking candy from a baby (no babies were harmed in this exercise).
21. Cincinnati - Jermaine Gresham, TE, Oklahoma
he's got to have a clean bill of health to grade out this high.
22. New England - Jared Odrick, DT/DE, Penn State
totally down with this pick, top 3-4 DE in draft
23. Green Bay - C.J. Spiller, RB, Clemson
again don't see him out of the top 20, but how could you resist? after today just plug in Campbell, they must address OL.
24. Philadelphia - Carlos Dunlap, DE, Florida
why does it seem the Eagles always go DL in 1st? maybe Mays?
25. Baltimore - Golden Tate, WR, Notre Dame
much needed weapon to stretch field.
26. Arizona - Taylor Mays, FS, USC
could be a trade up with Green Bay to get Spiller & pair him with Wells, then Packers get Campbell?
27. Dallas - Bruce Campbell, OT, Maryland
Jerry wishes.
28. San Diego - Maurkice Pouncey, C/G, Floridadid not blow me away over other Center prospects @ combine, like to see them going Mathews or Dwyer.
29. NY Jets - Brandon Graham, DE, Michigan
great pick, not feeling great going into NY next season, Texans need to protect Schaub.
30. Minnesota - Ryan Matthews, RB, Fresno State
let the run on CB's begin one pick earlier.
31. Indianapolis - Patrick Robinson, CB, Florida State
Donovan Warren maybe if Patrick Robinson off board, don't think they have salary cap room to sign Dunta Robinson but wouldn't that be ironic, anybody ever think about that....Texans.....
32. New Orleans - Brian Price, DT, UCLA
could see this happening, monitor their free agent movement.


Iupati could totally play in a zone scheme. The guy is one of the quickest guards laterally that I've seen on tape in a long time. Terrific feet and quickness. He can play in any system.

beerlover
02-28-2010, 12:47 AM
Iupati could totally play in a zone scheme. The guy is one of the quickest guards laterally that I've seen on tape in a long time. Terrific feet and quickness. He can play in any system.

& Ben Tate led the RB class in bench press, I'm not impressed. He plays too high in his stance, maybe that can be corrected? Against NFL talent he is going to be a holding machine, because he doesn't anchor, keeping his butt down & at least one foot on the ground, fast or not. I think he is best suited as a pulling guard in a power rushing attack, thats not at all what the Texans do.

Shaft75
02-28-2010, 12:48 AM
Iupati could totally play in a zone scheme. The guy is one of the quickest guards laterally that I've seen on tape in a long time. Terrific feet and quickness. He can play in any system.

Well, he may turn out to be a fine player. But he's certainly no Kasey Studdard.

Shaft75
02-28-2010, 12:51 AM
Btw LZ, I was wondering if your pops ever tells you what he thinks of some of the OL prospects. Or is he disconnected right now?

LZ
02-28-2010, 01:10 AM
& Ben Tate led the RB class in bench press, I'm not impressed. He plays too high in his stance, maybe that can be corrected? Against NFL talent he is going to be a holding machine, because he doesn't anchor, keeping his butt down & at least one foot on the ground, fast or not. I think he is best suited as a pulling guard in a power rushing attack, thats not at all what the Texans do.


I'm not sure what his anchor has to do with being able to move and playing in a zone scheme where quickness is at a premium.

LZ
02-28-2010, 01:11 AM
Btw LZ, I was wondering if your pops ever tells you what he thinks of some of the OL prospects. Or is he disconnected right now?

If he is watching them, he'll tell me. He was at the Sr. Bowl and he went to the Combine, but his info has been limited this year. I'm relying on other line coaches with different teams and my own studying this year.

beerlover
02-28-2010, 08:22 AM
I'm not sure what his anchor has to do with being able to move and playing in a zone scheme where quickness is at a premium.

will get over extended, needs to focus on balance, the ability to anchor & slide is a required technique for OL regardless of scheme. I'm fine with Iupati going to Pittsburgh it helps push Kyle down to us :)

threetoedpete
02-28-2010, 08:35 AM
5. Kansas City - Brian Bulaga, LT, Iowa
think he is only 20, nasty football player should be solid for next 12-15 years.

I don't care how nasty he is, he can't cover OLT with thirty three inch arms. Yes it makes a difference. Solid RT.....play him inside. Put hm covering the blind side....you start looking for your new next QB. the speed rushers will eat him a live.

beerlover
02-28-2010, 08:35 AM
Speaking of ZBS & OL prospects after Trent Williams, who is so fluid & athletic I couldn't help but notice you left off Charles Brown, USC LT. I have him rated as my #2 LT prospect for ZBS. Had him going to Seattle for weeks @ #14 since Carrol took over & added Alex Gibbs to staff. He is the type of long, athletic LT I was hoping for the Texans. your thoughts?

beerlover
02-28-2010, 08:41 AM
I don't care how nasty he is, he can't cover OLT with thirty three inch arms. Yes it makes a difference. Solid RT.....play him inside. Put hm covering the blind side....you start looking for your new next QB. the speed rushers will eat him a live.

I could be wrong but I think KC needs a RT so Lance may have him penciled in there while Brandon Albert goes into year 3 @ LT. But yeah from a BPA I was surprised how high he had him selected along with Anthony Davis? somehow Trent Williams needs to be the 2nd tackle taken off the board.

threetoedpete
02-28-2010, 08:56 AM
I could be wrong but I think KC needs a RT so Lance may have him penciled in there while Brandon Albert goes into year 3 @ LT. But yeah from a BPA I was surprised how high he had him selected along with Anthony Davis? somehow Trent Williams needs to be the 2nd tackle taken off the board.

Ok I agree. More over....K.C.'s calling card was always a dominate o-line....which featured two great guards. As a guard prospect....as a RT I'll give y'all that. He's a great player. I could see them giving up a one next year and their two, and four and six.....coming back up and Taking Iupati to pair with him, I believe they are both that good. problem solved they can now run the ball against anyone . and crawl out of the top five pick tank.


But Brian Bulaga isn't going to cover OLT. In the first place , no coach in his right mind is going to stick a guy with thirty thee inch arms on the left side. Why , once the QB got killed that head coach would be done. forever.

Ya know I love Eric. absolutely. But every 300 snaps or so he's going to give up the inside move. and the reason why is, and we've had this discussion before , is the length of his arms. And you and Z and Mike Mayock aren't going to tell me Brian is quicker than Eric. No way. I was born at night. But not last night. No head coach in his right mind is going to stick a guy with 33" arms on the left side.

LZ
02-28-2010, 09:35 AM
Speaking of ZBS & OL prospects after Trent Williams, who is so fluid & athletic I couldn't help but notice you left off Charles Brown, USC LT. I have him rated as my #2 LT prospect for ZBS. Had him going to Seattle for weeks @ #14 since Carrol took over & added Alex Gibbs to staff. He is the type of long, athletic LT I was hoping for the Texans. your thoughts?


I was all excited about Charles Brown until I watched him on tape and that excitement diminished. I wanted to like him because of how athletic he is, but he still has a ways to go. I could, however, see Seattle take a strong look at him in the 2nd round, but I can't see him as a first rounder.

rickyb
02-28-2010, 10:09 AM
LZ,
A sincere question: if the draft is deep enough at CB to justify starters through the first 3 rounds, why not hit a talent like CJ in round 1, and go after a CB in round 2?

(I am not taking a position. Just a sincere question.)

Best,
Rick

LZ
02-28-2010, 06:00 PM
LZ,
A sincere question: if the draft is deep enough at CB to justify starters through the first 3 rounds, why not hit a talent like CJ in round 1, and go after a CB in round 2?

(I am not taking a position. Just a sincere question.)

Best,
Rick

Very fair question and very fair observation. If the Texans feel like they can get their money's worth from Spiller (in other words, can they get him enough touches per game to justify that money), then they will probably give him or another RB a very hard look in the first and then CB in the 2nd because their is a great chance of having a CB you like avaialble in the 2nd and in free agency as opposed to RB in the 2nd and free agency.

beerlover
02-28-2010, 06:35 PM
Very fair question and very fair observation. If the Texans feel like they can get their money's worth from Spiller (in other words, can they get him enough touches per game to justify that money), then they will probably give him or another RB a very hard look in the first and then CB in the 2nd because their is a great chance of having a CB you like avaialble in the 2nd and in free agency as opposed to RB in the 2nd and free agency.

agree totally.

bckey
02-28-2010, 06:51 PM
If Eric Berry fell that far I would hope that the Texans would at least talk to teams about a move up to get him. I hope the draft doesn't go like your mock because Dan Williams and Earl Thomas would be gone by the time we pick although I do like Kyle Wilson quite a bit. I definately don't want Patrick Robinson or Brian Pryce. If we stayed at 20 with your mock I would say we would have to consider Mays and Matthews also and they might even look at trading back a few spots.

infantrycak
03-01-2010, 10:07 AM
If the Texans feel like they can get their money's worth from Spiller (in other words, can they get him enough touches per game to justify that money), then they will probably give him or another RB a very hard look in the first

Justify what money? The #20 pick is going to be a cheap hire for anyone that performs well other than a kicker. You're looking at a 4-5 year $13 mil deal. It's only the top 10 that get absurd money.

HuttoKarl
03-01-2010, 11:05 AM
love it. I've fast become territorial about Kyle, he would be a great fit here in Houston if still available. here are my notes so far -


natural, fluid hip turn creating instant redirect/change direction
cathes everything in his zone both over the top & dropped underneath
sits on routes reads QB patinet smooth back peddle, makes play on ball
does not back down, plays big in big games
shows excellent leadership, takes ownership of other teams #1 WR
physical despite size, better than advertised in run support
will hold position edge on WR forcing QB to take risks with ball
appetite for hard work & challanges, plays prepared

your contacts are right about Jimmy Claussen too, well at least you don't have him in top 10 kuddos!

Every time I do one of my lame mocks, Kyle Wilson seems to be there. Guy's sort of a big deal.

beerlover
03-01-2010, 01:02 PM
Every time I do one of my lame mocks, Kyle Wilson seems to be there. Guy's sort of a big deal.

yeah but will he still be there @ #20? I'm being told to make contingency plans.

badboy
03-01-2010, 01:03 PM
Very fair question and very fair observation. If the Texans feel like they can get their money's worth from Spiller (in other words, can they get him enough touches per game to justify that money), then they will probably give him or another RB a very hard look in the first and then CB in the 2nd because their is a great chance of having a CB you like avaialble in the 2nd and in free agency as opposed to RB in the 2nd and free agency.Wow, Lance , I'm gonna have to disagree with you on Iupati and the above opinion. Of course, that is what makes this so much fun; the debate and exchange of ideas. First, I have to side with BeerLover. We did quite a bit of research as he & I and RMARTIN 65 looked at Iupati @ #20. I see him more suited as a power bruiser for that type scheme. As you know, it takes more than quick feet in ZBS to be successful. His type OG can do it, in fact I have Newhouse from TCU our pick in 5th, just do not see Iupati doing it.

CB: I am hopeful Quin will be the #1 but not very hopeful. We need to draft CB that will replace DR and your pick of Wilson is a guy I have been pushing for long time. I think Gerhart, Matthews, Dixon or Dwyer should be there in 2nd. There are no other CB starters IMO. Closest would be Perrish Cox if Smith gets past his discipline issue.

LZ
03-01-2010, 01:23 PM
Justify what money? The #20 pick is going to be a cheap hire for anyone that performs well other than a kicker. You're looking at a 4-5 year $13 mil deal. It's only the top 10 that get absurd money.

You can always go cheaper than that in the 2nd round.

infantrycak
03-01-2010, 01:25 PM
You can always go cheaper than that in the 2nd round.

Same can be said with any position. Non-discriminating criteria.

Fact is a #20 pick is going to be a relative to league top performers cheap contract at any position other than kicker/punter. I'm not advocating Spiller but "justify the money" is a throw away line without merit.

LZ
03-01-2010, 01:29 PM
Wow, Lance , I'm gonna have to disagree with you on Iupati and the above opinion. Of course, that is what makes this so much fun; the debate and exchange of ideas. First, I have to side with BeerLover. We did quite a bit of research as he & I and RMARTIN 65 looked at Iupati @ #20. I see him more suited as a power bruiser for that type scheme. As you know, it takes more than quick feet in ZBS to be successful. His type OG can do it, in fact I have Newhouse from TCU our pick in 5th, just do not see Iupati doing it.

CB: I am hopeful Quin will be the #1 but not very hopeful. We need to draft CB that will replace DR and your pick of Wilson is a guy I have been pushing for long time. I think Gerhart, Matthews, Dixon or Dwyer should be there in 2nd. There are no other CB starters IMO. Closest would be Perrish Cox if Smith gets past his discipline issue.


I respect your opinion, but I have to tell you that I think too much is made of guard play when talking about the ZBS. A tackles ability to get to the backside LB or to reach on the 3-technique is much more important than finding some dazzling dancer at guard. Iupati is GREAT as a pulling tackle and can certainly play in a power system which is why I put him where I did, but NFL line coaches have all told me that he has the athleticism to play in pretty much any scheme. His issues that teams are picking at have more to do with how he tries to finish and with technique right now, but I'm not really hearing much about him not being athletic enough. Go ahead and put very little into anything you see at combines for interior linemen. I can tell you from having a family member coach and evaluate NFL lineman that film study and Shrine Game/Senior Bowl practices count for about 90 to 95% on centers and guards and the combine makes up the other 5 to 10%. Film doesn't lie.

threetoedpete
03-01-2010, 01:29 PM
Justify what money? The #20 pick is going to be a cheap hire for anyone that performs well other than a kicker. You're looking at a 4-5 year $13 mil deal. It's only the top 10 that get absurd money.

Yep can't argue contract value with Spiller or Mathews or Tate in the second or third round. Just as a philosophy thingy, as one cut and go back thing....I think it's foolish not to hit another hole first before running back. But you can't argue contract value. If it is the running backs and not the holes for the running backs and he gets you over the division hurdle, any running back will be worth the twenty contract.

LZ
03-01-2010, 01:31 PM
Same can be said with any position. Non-discriminating criteria.

Fact is a #20 pick is going to be a relative to league top performers cheap contract at any position other than kicker/punter. I'm not advocating Spiller but "justify the money" is a throw away line without merit.


Not to a team who has to redo deals with OD, Ryans and Mario. I also think you are underestimating the "RB has limited value" mindset that we've see from the Texans in the past. Sure, with Gibbs gone it might be different, but it would be careless to just throw away what you already know about how they operate in regards to the RB position and their idea of value at that position.

LZ
03-01-2010, 01:32 PM
Yep can't argue contract value with Spiller or Mathews or Tate in the second or third round. Just as a philosophy thingy, as one cut and go back thing....I think it's foolish not to hit another hole first before running back. But you can't argue contract value. If it is the running backs and not the holes for the running backs and he gets you over the division hurdle, any running back will be worth the twenty contract.

By the way, Tate is turning into a big time workout warrior. If there is one back that I've heard "just a guy" comments about this year from RB evaluators, it has been Tate. I wouldn't touch him in the 2nd.

badboy
03-01-2010, 01:34 PM
I respect your opinion, but I have to tell you that I think too much is made of guard play when talking about the ZBS. A tackles ability to get to the backside LB or to reach on the 3-technique is much more important than finding some dazzling dancer at guard. Iupati is GREAT as a pulling tackle and can certainly play in a power system which is why I put him where I did, but NFL line coaches have all told me that he has the athleticism to play in pretty much any scheme. His issues that teams are picking at have more to do with how he tries to finish and with technique right now, but I'm not really hearing much about him not being athletic enough. Go ahead and put very little into anything you see at combines for interior linemen. I can tell you from having a family member coach and evaluate NFL lineman that film study and Shrine Game/Senior Bowl practices count for about 90 to 95% on centers and guards and the combine makes up the other 5 to 10%. Film doesn't lie.What is your read on Casey Studdard? He seems to be well liked by Kubiac but I do not evaluate him that high. What I am leading to is do you think any drafted guard will beat Studdard out before mid-season? I was leaning towards Pitts returning to end his career in Houston. I may need to re-arrange my mock to get a guard before 4th.

beerlover
03-01-2010, 01:34 PM
I respect your opinion, but I have to tell you that I think too much is made of guard play when talking about the ZBS. A tackles ability to get to the backside LB or to reach on the 3-technique is much more important than finding some dazzling dancer at guard. Iupati is GREAT as a pulling tackle and can certainly play in a power system which is why I put him where I did, but NFL line coaches have all told me that he has the athleticism to play in pretty much any scheme. His issues that teams are picking at have more to do with how he tries to finish and with technique right now, but I'm not really hearing much about him not being athletic enough. Go ahead and put very little into anything you see at combines for interior linemen. I can tell you from having a family member coach and evaluate NFL lineman that film study and Shrine Game/Senior Bowl practices count for about 90 to 95% on centers and guards and the combine makes up the other 5 to 10%. Film doesn't lie.

in your professional opinion did you think Iupati played himself into a top 20 pick based on the actual game film in the Senior Bowl or practices?

infantrycak
03-01-2010, 01:36 PM
Not to a team who has to redo deals with OD, Ryans and Mario. I also think you are underestimating the "RB has limited value" mindset that we've see from the Texans in the past. Sure, with Gibbs gone it might be different, but it would be careless to just throw away what you already know about how they operate in regards to the RB position and their idea of value at that position.

The #20 pick is going to make the same money regardless of position and OD, Ryans and Mario are irrelevant to that issue.

I also know the difference between internet/radio myth and reality which is the Texans attempted to trade into the 1st to get DeAngelo Williams contrary to the "they won't draft a RB in the 1st" or "RB has limited value" myths. I'm not claiming they will take a RB in the 1st. Depends on how the players fall. But this mythology they are categorically against the idea is silly.

threetoedpete
03-01-2010, 01:38 PM
Look I know Iupati was a little sloppy in his game at the senior bowl. And I know he's a grabber. But what I except verbatim is that a pro o line coach is not going to have one bit of difficulty teaching this guy how to punch instead of grab. And with the OLTs such a mixed bag in this draft, and you're having trouble rushing the ball, a guy like Iupati gives you a yard of push with his first two steps. Make no mistake about it this guy is a rare athlete at 321. Anyone taking him in the top fifteen would be well justified if they wanted a rushing attack in their back pocket next fall. My worst nightmare now is Iupati is going to end up in the AFC ( South....Oiler senior moment)central.

beerlover
03-01-2010, 01:44 PM
By the way, Tate is turning into a big time workout warrior. If there is one back that I've heard "just a guy" comments about this year from RB evaluators, it has been Tate. I wouldn't touch him in the 2nd.

your hysterical, killing me with Tate so much so I come to expect it. Which by the way fits into what Texans are most likely to do, which was the point in the beginning to find the best of the lot among the rest of the pack, the underwhelming bunch. sucks that Ben had other ideas & is hell bent on disproving his naysayers :lol:

LZ
03-01-2010, 01:46 PM
What is your read on Casey Studdard? He seems to be well liked by Kubiac but I do not evaluate him that high. What I am leading to is do you think any drafted guard will beat Studdard out before mid-season? I was leaning towards Pitts returning to end his career in Houston. I may need to re-arrange my mock to get a guard before 4th.

No more than a backup. Limited physically and athletically but tough.

LZ
03-01-2010, 01:48 PM
in your professional opinion did you think Iupati played himself into a top 20 pick based on the actual game film in the Senior Bowl or practices?

<em><strong>Not really, but I think that is where he'll go. He has rare size/ athleticism and he is still somewhat raw, but guard is just such a lower priority position that you would have to blow people away to legitimately play yourself inside the top 20. However, the Niners are looking to remake themselves on the offensive line and the Steelers owner came out and basically demanded they run the ball more and their guards are VERY average.</em></strong>

LZ
03-01-2010, 01:50 PM
Look I know Iupati was a little sloppy in his game at the senior bowl. And I know he's a grabber. But what I except verbatim is that a pro o line coach is not going to one bit of difficulty teaching this guy how to punch instead of grab. And with the OLTs such a mixed bag in this draft, and you're having trouble rushing the ball, a guy like Iupati gives you a yard of push with his first two steps. Make no mistake about it this guy is a rare athlete at 321. anyone taking him in the top fifteen would be well justified if they wanted a rushing attack in their back pocket next fall. My worst nightmare now is Iupati is going to end up in the AFC central.

You are dead on. There isn't any problems that he has shown on film that aren't coachable. Bad feet or lack of core strength aren't coachable.

HuttoKarl
03-01-2010, 01:55 PM
All I know is that Iupati would help us overcome our severe lack of Samoans on the roster.

LZ
03-01-2010, 01:56 PM
The #20 pick is going to make the same money regardless of position and OD, Ryans and Mario are irrelevant to that issue.

I also know the difference between internet/radio myth and reality which is the Texans attempted to trade into the 1st to get DeAngelo Williams contrary to the "they won't draft a RB in the 1st" or "RB has limited value" myths. I'm not claiming they will take a RB in the 1st. Depends on how the players fall. But this mythology they are categorically against the idea is silly.

They DID want to trade into the first for DeAngelo Williams, but that was before Gibbs came in and installed his version of the zone and Casserly was still there. I'm not saying that won't take a RB in the first (because Matthews will probably be my pick for them in the post combine mock), but if Iupati and Matthews were both on the board, I'm not sure I don't go with the guard in that spot and try and trade up after Hardesty in round 2.

Blake
03-01-2010, 01:59 PM
You are dead on. There isn't any problems that he has shown on film that aren't coachable. Bad feet or lack of core strength aren't coachable.

Lance. Can I get your thoughts on the corner back position?

And what do you think of Patrick Robinson? I feel he is undervalued and should be a solid first round selection, especially for a team that just lost one of their starting cornerbacks.

LZ
03-01-2010, 02:03 PM
Lance. Can I get your thoughts on the corner back position?

And what do you think of Patrick Robinson? I feel he is undervalued and should be a solid first round selection, especially for a team that just lost one of their starting cornerbacks.

I defer completely on CBs to a scout buddy of mine who specializes in that position for his team. He thinks Robinson has as much pure talent at CB as anyone in the draft, but that he is inconsistent in his effort. The CB draft is deep though as I counted 10 possible starters within the first three rounds this year to about 5 or 6 last year.

gtexan02
03-01-2010, 02:04 PM
What would it cost draft pick wise to move from 20th to 12th?

Ole Miss Texan
03-01-2010, 02:43 PM
What would it cost draft pick wise to move from 20th to 12th?
Using Miami as the example, I think that really depends on how their draft board is set up. A hypothetical would be if they have Dez Bryant or Jason Pierre-Paul rated really highly and one is available, it may take a lot for them to move down because they covet them so highly. Maybe we swap 1sts and they require our 2nd rounder... if they trade at all.

Another hypothetical is if their absolute favorites are gone and they have a list of guys all rated really closely together. If they really feel that by trading down 8 spots they would still have a shot at several of these players (and their value is all real similar) they probably wouldn't require as much... or might prefer to trade down. In this case, maybe we swap 1sts, we give them our 2nd and they give us their 4th rounder.

Just my guess at least.

mussop
03-02-2010, 12:13 AM
& Ben Tate led the RB class in bench press, I'm not impressed. He plays too high in his stance, maybe that can be corrected? Against NFL talent he is going to be a holding machine, because he doesn't anchor, keeping his butt down & at least one foot on the ground, fast or not. I think he is best suited as a pulling guard in a power rushing attack, thats not at all what the Texans do.

Watched alot of film on Iupati have you??? Surely you didnt come to these conclusions from just the Senior Bowl and Combine??

mussop
03-02-2010, 12:15 AM
Wow, Lance , I'm gonna have to disagree with you on Iupati and the above opinion. Of course, that is what makes this so much fun; the debate and exchange of ideas. First, I have to side with BeerLover. We did quite a bit of research as he & I and RMARTIN 65 looked at Iupati @ #20. I see him more suited as a power bruiser for that type scheme. As you know, it takes more than quick feet in ZBS to be successful. His type OG can do it, in fact I have Newhouse from TCU our pick in 5th, just do not see Iupati doing it.

CB: I am hopeful Quin will be the #1 but not very hopeful. We need to draft CB that will replace DR and your pick of Wilson is a guy I have been pushing for long time. I think Gerhart, Matthews, Dixon or Dwyer should be there in 2nd. There are no other CB starters IMO. Closest would be Perrish Cox if Smith gets past his discipline issue.

Iupati would be great in the ZB scheme.

beerlover
03-02-2010, 05:51 AM
Watched alot of film on Iupati have you??? Surely you didnt come to these conclusions from just the Senior Bowl and Combine??

not alot maybe a couple games. I really don't know what to think of him anymore. Seems very raw to me, the potential is there, but I don't want the Texans to spend their 1st rd. pick on potential. Kubiak & Rick Smith have said it many times, even if its another LB, he has to be an immediate impact player. Despite several peoples opinons, which I respect, no way in hell does he fit the zone blocking mold, unless with the departure of Alex Gibbs we mutate into some kind of third dimension zone blocking scheme where size matters.

IDEXAN
03-02-2010, 08:33 AM
I could be wrong but I think KC needs a RT so Lance may have him penciled in there while Brandon Albert goes into year 3 @ LT.
Albert will be the Chiefs RT so they probably go after the top LT @ 5 but hopefully not the Iowa guy who's arms are too short just like the "can't miss"
guy, also from Iowa, who Oakland took a few years ago who busted
at OT.

bah007
03-02-2010, 11:25 AM
Albert will be the Chiefs RT so they probably go after the top LT @ 5 but hopefully not the Iowa guy who's arms are too short just like the "can't miss"
guy, also from Iowa, who Oakland took a few years ago who busted
at OT.

Gallery never should have been put at LT. They almost ruined him with that move. Ever since they switched him to LG he has been a very good player.

Kaiser Toro
03-02-2010, 08:12 PM
Thanks for sharing as always, and terrific dialogue coming from all.

I have not seen the narrative form, but I keep looking at mocks and am stunned that the weak Big 12 is dominating the first round:
- Top 4 picks
- 6 of the first 10
- 10 of the first 21

Lucky
03-02-2010, 10:02 PM
Watched alot of film on Iupati have you???
Have you??? Really???

Let's just let everyone have their takes without being snide. There are no scouts here. Even LZ is a radio personality, not a scout. Hell, even scouts can be wrong.

Texans_Chick
03-02-2010, 10:57 PM
Have you??? Really???

Let's just let everyone have their takes without being snide. There are no scouts here. Even LZ is a radio personality, not a scout. Hell, even scouts can be wrong.

From the late Joel Buchsbaum: "I don't evaluate players, I listen to the right people."

Scouts and teams with the best information out there get it wrong so we have very little chance ourselves.

I try to go into the draft process with an open mind. Know what is being said but not believing all the hype both negative and positive.

painekiller
03-03-2010, 03:23 AM
Gallery never should have been put at LT. They almost ruined him with that move. Ever since they switched him to LG he has been a very good player.

You should hear ND Kalu's thoughts on Gallery. He said the Raiders play Gallery only because the owner is making them due to the money he is making. Kalu said they scheme the blocking so that the OT and OC are protecting Gallery. Kalu said Gallery id one of the worse OGs in the league.

leebigeztx
03-07-2010, 03:01 AM
I know I'm late to the party, but anyone who thinks Iupati can't be a really good player in any scheme is really missing out. Drafting a guy of his size and athletic ability will only take whatever scheme the texans run to another level. His size,feet,arms are all great attributes to have. The texans are a primary zone team, but every team has some power runs inside. They may not have the classic g-power like what faneca perfected in pittsburgh, but at some point and time, every team runs a power. Iupati on the same side as brown would give them a power side to run and pick up quality yards. I know they're loyal to myers, but if they ever get a guy that can handle some of those bigger 0 techniques without getting rag dolled, the texans can be a really good running team. Unless a top 10 projected player is off the board, the texans would be a fool to pass iupati. They could come back in the 2nd rd and get a kareem jackson from alabama if they need to replace a corner.