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HOU-TEX
02-24-2010, 11:19 AM
Soo, I guess we're going to let him test the FA waters? With all the rumblings on Dunta, I haven't heard anything about K-dub. I like him and hopefully he'll allow us to match whatever he's offered.

Are we satisfied with JJ's progress enough to let him walk? Will we grab a Shipley type WR mid to late rounds of the draft?

Thoughts?

infantrycak
02-24-2010, 11:28 AM
Wouldn't at all be surprised to have an announcement come out before March 5th. But for reference here is the WR FA market:

Terrell Owens 36
Antonio Bryant 29
Derrick Mason 36
Kevin Walter 29

According to Football's Future.

Hardcore Texan
02-24-2010, 11:30 AM
Soo, I guess we're going to let him test the FA waters? With all the rumblings on Dunta, I haven't heard anything about K-dub. I like him and hopefully he'll allow us to match whatever he's offered.

Are we satisfied with JJ's progress enough to let him walk? Will we grab a Shipley type WR mid to late rounds of the draft?

Thoughts?

I thougt it was Kevin Walters?

:jk:

HOU-TEX
02-24-2010, 11:35 AM
Wouldn't at all be surprised to have an announcement come out before March 5th. But for reference here is the WR FA market:

Terrell Owens 36
Antonio Bryant 29
Derrick Mason 36
Kevin Walter 29

According to Football's Future.

Isn't tomorrow the last day to tag a player? I'm not saying we should or shouldn't tag him, it's just my thinking that if he isn't tagged or given a new deal he's destined for FA. I suppose there's a chance we could re-sign him in a weeks time, but I would assuume a deal would've been done by now if that was the direction we wanted to go?

Brisco_County
02-24-2010, 12:16 PM
Wouldn't at all be surprised to have an announcement come out before March 5th. But for reference here is the WR FA market:

Terrell Owens 36
Antonio Bryant 29
Derrick Mason 36
Kevin Walter 29

According to Football's Future.

Antonio Bryant would be scary on this team, but he's too me-first to play second fiddle. Walter is still the best fit and best value for us at that position, so we'll probably lock him up.

HuttoKarl
02-24-2010, 03:04 PM
Maybe ditching Dunta is a way to help keep Kevin here????

barrett
02-24-2010, 03:09 PM
I'm certain that money will be used to resign players but I don't expect anything like that this year. McNair is a pretty savvy businessman and I think there are many teams sitting this one out until they know what's going to happen in 2011. Normally you would be hearing about all the new deals players are getting at this time of year but if you've noticed, it's not happening this year.

I think everyone is on board with them resigning all these guys but I expect everything to just sit until the CBA is worked out.

HOU-TEX
02-24-2010, 03:44 PM
I'm certain that money will be used to resign players but I don't expect anything like that this year. McNair is a pretty savvy businessman and I think there are many teams sitting this one out until they know what's going to happen in 2011. Normally you would be hearing about all the new deals players are getting at this time of year but if you've noticed, it's not happening this year.

I think everyone is on board with them resigning all these guys but I expect everything to just sit until the CBA is worked out.

That's not really what I've heard. I might be wrong, but it's my understanding that players that have, or will, sign new deals that go through 2011 will just have it temporarily suspended. In other words, if no deal has been made by the end of the 2010 NFL season (early March?), then players who are under contract will have their contracts put on hold until the new deal is struck. They would resume as if nothing happened once a new CBA is in place

I'll try to find a link, but I've yet to remember where I'd heard/read it from.

Shaft75
02-24-2010, 04:22 PM
Antonio Bryant would be scary on this team, but he's too me-first to play second fiddle. Walter is still the best fit and best value for us at that position, so we'll probably lock him up.

Never really thought about that. Man, Bryant and Dre on the outside... That would be killer.

mike moffat
02-24-2010, 06:07 PM
We better not lose him.
I'll have to change my signature line.:gun:

infantrycak
02-24-2010, 08:17 PM
That's not really what I've heard. I might be wrong, but it's my understanding that players that have, or will, sign new deals that go through 2011 will just have it temporarily suspended. In other words, if no deal has been made by the end of the 2010 NFL season (early March?), then players who are under contract will have their contracts put on hold until the new deal is struck. They would resume as if nothing happened once a new CBA is in place

I'll try to find a link, but I've yet to remember where I'd heard/read it from.

That's correct from what I have seen. No 2011 season then it doesn't count against the contract term. Now of course the player gets older and may not have the same dedication but a 5 year deal is supposed to be a 5 years playing deal.

barrett
02-25-2010, 12:40 AM
Anybody got a link? I'm surprised that I haven't heard anything like that.

HOU-TEX
02-25-2010, 08:34 AM
Anybody got a link? I'm surprised that I haven't heard anything like that.

I tried to find a link for a few minutes. I'll see if I can find one some time throughout the day. At least I'm educating myself on the CBA (or lack thereof) by having to read through all the articles. :)

Goatcheese
02-25-2010, 08:42 AM
Rick Smith is too busy looking for a 3rd string QB to throw $10 million bucks at to worry about resigning our own players.

Section516
02-25-2010, 08:43 AM
I actually wrote a paper on the CBA last semester..Was good stuff.

I'm more worried as to what the year off would do to some of our more..ah..not motivated players

Blake
02-25-2010, 09:05 AM
Rick Smith is too busy looking for a 3rd string QB to throw $10 million bucks at to worry about resigning our own players.

Lol QFT!

Seriously resign the man. He is a solid WR and can fill the #2 while Jones keeps the competition up.

threetoedpete
02-26-2010, 04:23 AM
Wouldn't at all be surprised to have an announcement come out before March 5th. But for reference here is the WR FA market:

Terrell Owens 36
Antonio Bryant 29
Derrick Mason 36
Kevin Walter 29

According to Football's Future.

Yep I've got myself braced for this. Walter is a front line , clutch receiving, good blocking, great hands #2 wide receiver. Maybe one of the best in the league. I was really surprised the Giants didn't trade for him last year before the draft. I thought after the ricochet off the hands interception last year...(Miami game?) that Gary Kubiak threw Jacoby Jones in to the middle of the pound and said to him OK J.J. swim or drown. His targets went way up. Every time he screwed up they kept going back to Jacoby. What I read was at that moment in time, either Jacoby was going to make it or he was going to be gone. So if J.J. is not exposed now....somebody has gotta go.

What I'm hoping is that the loss of Daunta will free up enough money to make several of the other players happy with a due bump up.

JayCee
02-26-2010, 02:09 PM
Texans don't sound optimistic about retaining Walter

Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on February 26, 2010 1:47 PM ET
Texans G.M. Rick Smith said he spoke with wide receiver Kevin Walter's agent Thursday night, but he didn't sound overly optimistic about retaining him.

"Kevin is a big part of our team. We would like to have Kevin back. We have articulated that to him as recently as last night," Smith said.

We asked about Walter because he's one of the better young (29) starters about to hit free agency. He provides an alternative to teams that don't want Terrell Owens or Antonio Bryant.

"We're trying to see if we can retain him, but the unfortunate part of free agency is you can't keep everybody," Smith said. "When you talk about putting your team together, you have to make tough decisions, and sometimes you have to let players go you otherwise wouldn't want to."

Our G.M. Translator says: "The guy is a week away from free agency. We like him, but not enough. It's going to be almost impossible to keep him at a reasonable price and we have Jacoby Jones behind him ready to become a starter."


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/02/26/texans-dont-sound-optimistic-about-retaining-walter/#comments

Time to get consistent Jacoby.

leebigeztx
02-26-2010, 03:16 PM
I like walters alot and he's a good redzone threat, but jones has explosion. Jones has they type of explosion to take the top off the defense and give dre more room. He does need refinement, but getting a guy like Parrish to handle special teams stuff and allowing jones to just focus on wr would benefit the team more. Anderson is the slot guy and with daniels coming back, the middle of the field stuff should be ok. If they don't feel jones is ready, they should get a guy like bryant opposite of dre.

Double Barrel
02-26-2010, 03:37 PM
I hate to lose KW, but he was under-utilized last year. He saw little action until OD went down. Only one ball for so many receivers.

I'm not sold on JJ...think he's got big play potential, but he's too loose with the ball and seems to be running before he secures the catch...but at least we've got him if KW ends up on another team.

BIG TORO
02-26-2010, 03:43 PM
On the Texans Twitter thread it read Rick smith like Kevin and wants him back!

barrett
02-26-2010, 04:07 PM
I like walters alot

Apparently you don't like him enough to learn his name.

This is the one reason I'll be glad to see him go.

I personally will miss you Kevins Walter.

HuttoKarl
02-26-2010, 04:25 PM
Apparently you don't like him enough to learn his name.

This is the one reason I'll be glad to see him go.

I personally will miss you Kevins Walter.

:splits:

threetoedpete
02-27-2010, 07:52 AM
I thougt it was Kevin Walters?

:jk:

I miss spelled it also for eighteen months. I grew up with a huge crush on Cynthia WalterS at David G. Burnett. Kinda hard for me to reprogram after hearing Walters for twelve years.

http://www.lsjunction.com/people/burnet.htm

GP
02-27-2010, 11:53 AM
I personally think we should lose David Anderson before losing Walter.

I like Walter's frame and length when compared to Anderson. I like his ability to know where the marker is at and where he's got to be to get the first down. I think his hands are better. Not by much, but still better.

I would love to see AJ, JJ, Walter, and then maybe Martinez in Anderson's spot. I like what we have at WR, with obviously (as you all know very well) the idea that J be made the second guy at WR. Consistently.

I think we could go the whole draft with not even drafting a WR, and be OK, unless there was just a guy sitting there at some unforeseen spot that we thought we wouldn't still be available for us.

Nobody needs to get anxious about Dez Bryant. I predict he will be a Top 15 pick, if not a Top 10 pick. He has skills. All he cares about is playing football, not being a doctor in Nigeria some day. I'm not sayin'....I'm just sayin'....

Chance_C
02-27-2010, 01:24 PM
I would love to see AJ, JJ, Walter, and then maybe Martinez in Anderson's spot. I like what we have at WR, with obviously (as you all know very well) the idea that J be made the second guy at WR. Consistently.


Why would you want to fill David Andersen's spot with Martinez?

threetoedpete
02-27-2010, 03:31 PM
Why would you want to fill David Andersen's spot with Martinez?

Because the grass is always greener than the 83% reception rate on third down. They've been trying to run off Dav Anderson for three years. Until they draft a similar guy, you gotta figure his spot is safe. He77 they won't even move Myers out for a game. Anderson fills his roll. His salary is cheap. And he produces when his number is called. He's not going anywhere.

GP
02-27-2010, 03:59 PM
Why would you want to fill David Andersen's spot with Martinez?

Because if I had to choose between two receivers to retain, I would make the commitment to Walter.

I feel Walter and Anderson are essentially the same thing. It's redundant. And then we have Martinez, which I feel can be a mix of Anderson's agility and Walter's hands.

I don't hate David Anderson. I just think Walter is the more valuable of the two, and I'd hope we would keep him. It might not come down to having to choose between the two. Was just saying where I stack up the receivers on our team.

TheRealJoker
02-27-2010, 09:48 PM
Because if I had to choose between two receivers to retain, I would make the commitment to Walter.

I feel Walter and Anderson are essentially the same thing. It's redundant. And then we have Martinez, which I feel can be a mix of Anderson's agility and Walter's hands.

I don't hate David Anderson. I just think Walter is the more valuable of the two, and I'd hope we would keep him. It might not come down to having to choose between the two. Was just saying where I stack up the receivers on our team.

KW being the # 2 and DA being the slot guy makes KW more valuable...

However, given the # 2 WR salary and the fact we have JJ progressing well and in position to fill that role, DA is the better value.

GP
02-27-2010, 11:24 PM
KW being the # 2 and DA being the slot guy makes KW more valuable...

However, given the # 2 WR salary and the fact we have JJ progressing well and in position to fill that role, DA is the better value.

Yeah, I'm thinking of depth. I like what we have, and I think losing KW would hurt if something happened to JJ and he missed playing time.

After all, JJ could be late to a meeting again.

beerlover
02-27-2010, 11:50 PM
what do you think the market will bear should he not be tendered?

Lucky
02-28-2010, 09:03 AM
what do you think the market will bear should he not be tendered?
Walter's not eligible for receiving a restricted free agent tender as he has 6+ accrued seasons (actually 7).

I think Walter will draw some interest from any WCO team with a need as he fits that mold. Plus, he's a very valuable special teamer. I hope he's re-signed by the Texans. I just want Jacoby Jones more involved in the offense. I think the 3 WR sets should consist of AJ-Jones-Walter, not AJ-Walter-Anderson.

GP
02-28-2010, 09:21 AM
Walter's not eligible for receiving a restricted free agent tender as he has 6+ accrued seasons (actually 7).

I think Walter will draw some interest from any WCO team with a need as he fits that mold. Plus, he's a very valuable special teamer. I hope he's re-signed by the Texans. I just want Jacoby Jones more involved in the offense. I think the 3 WR sets should consist of AJ-Jones-Walter, not AJ-Walter-Anderson.

Here's a man who understands.

:clap:

ATXtexanfan
02-28-2010, 09:29 AM
I love walter as well but you can only tie up so much money into your receiving core. If letting walter go means keeping OD then it's cool. I hope he stays but he might get an offer he can't refuse.

Lucky
02-28-2010, 10:06 AM
Here's a man who understands.

:clap:
You're just now coming around to that? :)

Let's take a quick look at last season's WR corps:

AJ - Pro Bowl, All-Pro, All World WR
Jones - Occasionally spectacular, good special teamer
Walter - Injured, but generally solid WR, good special teamer
Davis - OK WR, good special teamer
Anderson - OK WR, doesn't give you much on special teams

Take out your superstar, and what's the difference in these players? One doesn't make an impact on special teams. Anderson was a favorite of Baby Shanny, so I would offer him to the Skins for a late rounder and pickup a young WR on the 3rd day who can help on special teams. And re-sign Walter (it's an uncapped year people). Give our WR coach a chance to develop a Miles Austin or Pierre Garcon type. I'm not crazy about the WR class at the top of this draft. But, it seems very deep in Day 3 prospects.

Norg
02-28-2010, 06:29 PM
The is no way we will lose KW kubes likes him and he is a hard
worker. With that said u can't deny JJ rise and we can't pay both

it's strictly biz Nass

Carr Bombed
02-28-2010, 07:01 PM
Draft Jordan Shipley if he's there in the 3rd or 4th round and then problem solved. I would love to see Shipley on this team and no..it's not because he's a Longhorn, it's because he's a very good football player and would fit perfectly in this offense.

ChampionTexan
02-28-2010, 07:27 PM
The is no way we will lose KW kubes likes him and he is a hard
worker. With that said u can't deny JJ rise and we can't pay both

it's strictly biz Nass

So your saying we lose Jacoby?

Vinnie
02-28-2010, 09:45 PM
I hopes we keep Walters and Owens.

I don't think it will kill us if we lose Kevin. I've said it before, I was not a Jacoby fan in past seasons but the dude flat out impressed me last year. We need to get him the ball more. DA is cheap and serviceable, he's a lock to stay. I wish Walter all the best, and I hate to see him go, but I think that's the path we're staring down.

Dutchrudder
03-01-2010, 03:08 PM
If Kevins Walter :) hits free agency, I bet you the Redskins will go after him. They need WRs very badly, and KW would help them out a lot. I hope he stays with the Texans, but they better get him a deal before Friday if they want to keep him.

Blake
03-01-2010, 03:42 PM
I hope they work something out. And no, you cannot replace 6'3" 218 lbs 7 year vet KW with 5'11" 193 lbs rookie Jordan Shipley.

Dont let another valuable vet walk. If you like him so much, sign him to your team!

HuttoKarl
03-01-2010, 04:20 PM
I hope they work something out. And no, you cannot replace 6'3" 218 lbs 7 year vet KW with 5'11" 193 lbs rookie Jordan Shipley.

Dont let another valuable vet walk. If you like him so much, sign him to your team!

b.b.b.but they're both white guys!

Mr. White
03-01-2010, 04:32 PM
WR is a luxury position for us right now. We could afford to lose any two who aren't named Andre Johnson.

Section516
03-01-2010, 04:41 PM
Luxury? Losing two won't hurt us? How?

We don't know the status on OD. We don't know how our run games going to look. We don't know if JJ is going to come back big, or fade away. We don't know a lot.

Throwing all these known quantities out of the way for what *might* be upgrades is dumb, especially in this uncapped year.

BullNation4Life
03-01-2010, 04:41 PM
WR like Kevin Walter are a dime a dozen. Though he would be missed, it would only be for the short time his replacement takes his locker.

Move on down the road Kevin, we hardly knew ya...:jogger:

JB
03-01-2010, 04:47 PM
WR like Kevin Walter are a dime a dozen. Though he would be missed, it would only be for the short time his replacement takes his locker.

Move on down the road Kevin, we hardly knew ya...:jogger:

Really?

HuttoKarl
03-01-2010, 04:50 PM
WR like Kevin Walter are a dime a dozen. Though he would be missed, it would only be for the short time his replacement takes his locker.

Move on down the road Kevin, we hardly knew ya...:jogger:

Which is why before Kevin Walter we've had so many awesome #2 WR's.

3rd all time receptions for Houston. 3rd all time yards for Houston. 4th all time Receiving TD's.

Dime a dozen.

Texan_Bill
03-01-2010, 04:51 PM
Which is why before Kevin Walter we've had so many awesome #2 WR's.

3rd all time receptions for Houston. 3rd all time yards for Houston. 4th all time Receiving TD's.

Dime a dozen.

You weren't a Jabar Gaffney fan?? :whip:

Section516
03-01-2010, 04:53 PM
:gun::gun::gun::gun::gun::gun:

Make it stop. Please make it stop.

HuttoKarl
03-01-2010, 04:54 PM
You weren't a Jabar Gaffney fan?? :whip:

Hey...he was AWESOME!!!

24 fewer receptions and half the TD's of Walter in two more games with Houston.

Bradford had 65 fewer receptions in one more game than Walter, but did have 4 more TD's.

The rest of our top ten "receivers" are AJ at #1, a smattering of RB's and TE's (OD at #2) and David Anderson at 10.

I do blame some of the poor WR production on HWSNBN, but if a #2 WR is a dime a dozen, why haven't we had more than one?

BullNation4Life
03-01-2010, 04:55 PM
Which is why before Kevin Walter we've had so many awesome #2 WR's.

3rd all time receptions for Houston. 3rd all time yards for Houston. 4th all time Receiving TD's.

Dime a dozen.

Considering the bar was never set very high on this team for #2 WRs, what Kevin Walter has done could be done with numerous WRs on this team with Schaub throwing the ball....

I'll go out on a limb and say if JJ was given the full time gig, he may very well replace those numbers. You could possible go get Breason in FA, he could replace those numbers....

While I like Kevin Walter, he is replacable...

HuttoKarl
03-01-2010, 04:58 PM
Considering the bar was never set very high on this team for #2 WRs, what Kevin Walter has done could be done with numerous WRs on this team with Schaub throwing the ball....

I'll go out on a limb and say if JJ was given the full time gig, he may very well replace those numbers. You could possible go get Breason in FA, he could replace those numbers....

While I like Kevin Walter, he is replacable...

Kevin's also only fumbled the ball ONE time in Houston. Forgot to mention that.

Big Lou
03-01-2010, 05:00 PM
WR like Kevin Walter are a dime a dozen. Though he would be missed, it would only be for the short time his replacement takes his locker.

Move on down the road Kevin, we hardly knew ya...:jogger:

Damn if they're a dime a dozen we sure are overpaying him. Also we should stay well under the cap in 2011 if there are that many out there.

A dime a dozen, really, name nine more is 20 seconds. Can't do it can you.

KW is a key component to this teams offense. He makes clutch catchs and blocks like a steam roller (For a WR). Let him go with out an adequate replacement, and you won't be seeing top 5 Offensive stats out of Houston anymore.

Does anyone remember this team when WR wasn't a strength? I sure do, AJ is the best damn WR in the NFL IMHO, but he wasn't putting up 1,500 yards a season with 2 guys from the secondary hawking him every single play of the game.

Damn we might as well bring Moulds back!!!!!

BullNation4Life
03-01-2010, 05:00 PM
Hey...he was AWESOME!!!

24 fewer receptions and half the TD's of Walter in two more games with Houston.

Bradford had 65 fewer receptions in one more game than Walter, but did have 4 more TD's.

The rest of our top ten "receivers" are AJ at #1, a smattering of RB's and TE's (OD at #2) and David Anderson at 10.

I do blame some of the poor WR production on HWSNBN, but if a #2 WR is a dime a dozen, why haven't we had more than one?

Who the GM was in the last regime? There is your answer.

Big Lou
03-01-2010, 05:01 PM
Considering the bar was never set very high on this team for #2 WRs, what Kevin Walter has done could be done with numerous WRs on this team with Schaub throwing the ball....

I'll go out on a limb and say if JJ was given the full time gig, he may very well replace those numbers. You could possible go get Breason in FA, he could replace those numbers....

While I like Kevin Walter, he is replacable...

Bieng a WR is a lot more than just catching the ball for positive yardage........

Mr. White
03-01-2010, 05:05 PM
Luxury? Losing two won't hurt us? How?

We don't know the status on OD. We don't know how our run games going to look. We don't know if JJ is going to come back big, or fade away. We don't know a lot.

Throwing all these known quantities out of the way for what *might* be upgrades is dumb, especially in this uncapped year.

I think it's dumb to keep all six of these guys on the roster considering we have a weak secondary, weak interior line, and an inability to run the ball.

Andre Johnson
Kevin Walter
Jacoby Jones
David Anderson
Andre Davis
Glenn Martinez

Like somebody else said, there's only one football. Let a couple of 'em go and spend the money somewhere else

Dutchrudder
03-01-2010, 05:06 PM
I think it's dumb to keep all six of these guys on the roster considering we have a weak secondary, weak interior line, and an inability to run the ball.

Andre Johnson
Kevin Walter
Jacoby Jones
David Anderson
Andre Davis
Glenn Martinez

Like somebody else said, there's only one football.

We could probably trade Andre Johnson for the entire Detroit Lions roster. Would that help?

BullNation4Life
03-01-2010, 05:08 PM
Bieng a WR is a lot more than just catching the ball for positive yardage........

Be that as it may, Kevin Walter still could be replaced and this team not miss a beat. Here are 3 that could do so...

Miles Austin
Vincent Jackson
Steve Breaston

I know Jackson was the #1 and Miles played like a #1 but they are both more #2's than #1 WRs and could replace Walter nicely

Mr. White
03-01-2010, 05:09 PM
We could probably trade Andre Johnson for the entire Detroit Lions roster. Would that help?

I said we could afford to lose any two not named Andre Johnson.

disaacks3
03-01-2010, 05:16 PM
I love walter as well but you can only tie up so much money into your receiving core. If letting walter go means keeping OD then it's cool. I hope he stays but he might get an offer he can't refuse. Agreed, I love me some KW, but OD is far more important.

Draft Jordan Shipley if he's there in the 3rd or 4th round and then problem solved. I would love to see Shipley on this team and no..it's not because he's a Longhorn, it's because he's a very good football player and would fit perfectly in this offense. I'm not sure how well his game will work at the NFL level, but I'd sure be willing to spend a 4th rounder to find out.

I hope they work something out. And no, you cannot replace 6'3" 218 lbs 7 year vet KW with 5'11" 193 lbs rookie Jordan Shipley.

Dont let another valuable vet walk. If you like him so much, sign him to your team! KW is NOT AJ and can be replaced, his numbers are not so flashy that no one could match him. No telling how good / bad Shipley will be at the Pro Level - he could be a bomb, or he could be twice what KW is..no telling yet.

Carr Bombed
03-01-2010, 05:48 PM
I hope they work something out. And no, you cannot replace 6'3" 218 lbs 7 year vet KW with 5'11" 193 lbs rookie Jordan Shipley.

Austin Collie (6'0 and 200 pounds) and the Colts beg to differ. :rolleyes:

LOL, this era of NFL football (salary cap/free agency) is all about REPLACING VETS WITH ROOKIES, the teams that do the best job of it are the ones that win year in and year out. You can't keep everyone and by no means is Kevin Walter a franchise cornerstone type player.....teams have to make tough decisions to move on without/replace players of Kevin Walters caliber all the time.

Carr Bombed
03-01-2010, 05:50 PM
b.b.b.but they're both white guys!

Umm....has NOTHING to do with skin color. Has to do with the fact that arguably the most polished, mature, and productive receiver in the draft may go in the middle rounds, right about where we'd be looking for another receiver if Kevin Walter did move on to another team.

Carr Bombed
03-01-2010, 06:01 PM
Hey...he was AWESOME!!!

24 fewer receptions and half the TD's of Walter in two more games with Houston.

Bradford had 65 fewer receptions in one more game than Walter, but did have 4 more TD's.

The rest of our top ten "receivers" are AJ at #1, a smattering of RB's and TE's (OD at #2) and David Anderson at 10.

I do blame some of the poor WR production on HWSNBN, but if a #2 WR is a dime a dozen, why haven't we had more than one?

You answered your own question in the same sentence. Gaffney has been productive whenever given a real chance since he's left Houston. David Carr didn't know how to progress through his reads.....his reads went like this -

Look at A.J., is he covered..if no, throw the ball, if yes....dump the ball down to D.D. The next play after that was to take off and run out of bounds with the ball and a loss of yards. :gun:

We now have a QB who can elevate the players around him, Matt Schaub is not David Carr and as far as I'm concerned our franchise's offensive records/stats really started when Matt Schaub took over this team, because before he did Houston wasn't even fielding a NFL QB the first 5 seasons (yes I'm starting to block Carr completely out of my memory)

Norg
03-01-2010, 06:49 PM
Who was our number two before kw got here andre Davis

the thing his we got to many wr now and we need to pick up other positions

why would we keep kw when we got jj and a solid vet ad has well

I love kw but I can see why we won't pick him up

Lucky
03-01-2010, 09:48 PM
Who was our number two before kw got here
Before Walter came here? Jabar Gaffney. Eric Moulds was the #2 WR in Walter's 1st season with the Texans.
andre DavisUm, no. Walter joined the team in 2006. Davis in 2007.

If money is a consideration in signing Walter, then cut Davis and his $2.5 million salary and give it to Walter. He's better than Davis.

HuttoKarl
03-02-2010, 09:13 AM
Be that as it may, Kevin Walter still could be replaced and this team not miss a beat. Here are 3 that could do so...

Miles Austin
Vincent Jackson
Steve Breaston

I know Jackson was the #1 and Miles played like a #1 but they are both more #2's than #1 WRs and could replace Walter nicely

Miles Austin is not going anywhere.
Vincent Jackson will want to be paid as a #1 WR because that's what he is.
Steve Breaston shows flashes of goodness in between knee injuries and hobbles.

I'd rather have Walter than any of them.

HuttoKarl
03-02-2010, 09:16 AM
Before Walter came here? Jabar Gaffney. Eric Moulds was the #2 WR in Walter's 1st season with the Texans.
Um, no. Walter joined the team in 2006. Davis in 2007.

If money is a consideration in signing Walter, then cut Davis and his $2.5 million salary and give it to Walter. He's better than Davis.

Yes.

and carr-bombed...you forgot "going fetal" when talking about the playcalling of the Ochostinko days.

jaayteetx
03-02-2010, 09:25 AM
Miles Austin is not going anywhere.
Vincent Jackson will want to be paid as a #1 WR because that's what he is.
Steve Breaston shows flashes of goodness in between knee injuries and hobbles.

I'd rather have Walter than any of them.

JJ needs to step up and take the #2 IMO, he is a playmaker plain and simple. Good things happen when he gets the ball, unfortunately, so do bad things. JJ should spend his entire offseason hanging with AJ and picking his brain and working out with him.

datchapin
03-02-2010, 09:39 AM
I would rather keep Walter over Daniels. Considering OD is coming off a major injury with no certainty that he will return to pre-injury play I wouldn't let Walter go so easily. OD is a good player, but Dreseen has shown to be reliable as well. Walter wasn't targeted as often this season however the yr. before he stepped up with almost 900 yds. and 8 TD's. He's a great blocker and hard worker. JJ hasn't shown to be too reliable yet. He's had discipline problems.

The thing with OD is he was offered a long-term deal last off-season and turned it down. However even he would admit that he needs to work on his blocking. He was on the way there, but was derailed by the injury. While we may all hope he comes back in top shape, keep in mind this is his second blown ACL. With that in mind, KW is not going to break the bank, to just let him walk would be foolish. If he left in pursuit of more money that's one thing, but if we just let him walk that would really irritate me.

GP
03-02-2010, 09:42 AM
JJ needs to step up and take the #2 IMO, he is a playmaker plain and simple. Good things happen when he gets the ball, unfortunately, so do bad things. JJ should spend his entire offseason hanging with AJ and picking his brain and working out with him.

See, this is a tag that doesn't apply to JJ. At least not last season.

He had the bobbled fair catch in game 2 vs. the Titans.

He had the bobbled pass reception in game 16 that became an interception and a return for a TD by the Patriots.

Other than those two bobbles, he came down with the catch on passes that had a reasonable chance to be caught. He even caught some that others would not have been able to get to, IMO.

You guys need to stop repeating the same mantra about JJ--The tag that he's an accident waiting to happen. His production this past season, versus the previous seasons, is like night and day. It's THAT contrasting.

HoustonFrog
03-02-2010, 09:52 AM
Miles Austin is not going anywhere.
Vincent Jackson will want to be paid as a #1 WR because that's what he is.
Steve Breaston shows flashes of goodness in between knee injuries and hobbles.

I'd rather have Walter than any of them.

That is just silly talk. 2 of those guys are game breakers( a third could be but he has been a #3) and would open it up for AJ even more. Walters is a complimentary guy who works the field well. There is no way the Texans get them or go after them but to stay you'd rather have Walters seems silly to me. In my book there are other Kevin Walter types who can be your #2 and even some that are more athletic and could do more.

GP
03-02-2010, 10:01 AM
2009 Stats for Jacoby Jones:
Games played: 14
Receptions: 27
Yards: 437
Avg: 16 yards-per-catch
Longest reception/YAC: 45 yards
TOUCHDOWNS: 6
Receptions over 20 yards: 7
Receptions of 40 yards: 3
1st downs: 19
FUMBLES: 0

2009 Stats for David Anderson:
Games played: 16
Receptions: 38
Yards: 370
Avg: 9.7 yards-per-catch
Longest reception/YAC: 27 yards
TOUCHDOWNS: 0
Receptions over 20 yards: 2
Receptions of 40 yards: 0
1st downs: 22
FUMBLES: 0

2009 Stats for Kevin Walter:
Games played: 14
Receptions: 53
Yards: 611
Avg: 11.5 yards-per-catch
Longest reception/YAC: 41 yards
TOUCHDOWNS: 2
Receptions over 20 yards: 7
Receptions of 40 yards: 1
1st downs: 33
FUMBLES: 0

GP
03-02-2010, 10:18 AM
Here's the logistics, IMO:

SCORING THREAT AND REAL ESTATE EATER:
Jacoby Jones is chomping up the field in bigger chunks when he's out there, as compared to David Anderson who is bottom man on the totem pole when it comes to practically every statistical category. His 6 TDs is four more than Walter and 6 more than Anderson. He's the guy who can score if he gets the ball in the right spot at the right time.

THE SAFETY VALVE WHEN SCHAUB IS UNDER PRESSURE:
David Anderson makes those little short, choppy receptions where other guys are covered and Schaub needs to get rid of the ball quickly. He runs the quick-outs, the little slants, etc. It's his role. But he gets hunted down once he makes the catch, and he's no real threat to a defense on a down-by-down basis. His role is to catch that ball and make something out of nothing.

THE "GO TO" GUY WHEN YOU NEED A 1st DOWN:
Kevin Walter is the guy who has the most 1st downs (33 compared to JJ's 19 and DA's 22). He has the most comparable stats to JJ, but yet he's not getting into the end zone that much. He's the guy, on 3rd and 6, who runs a curl route and ends up getting 6.5 yards and the first down for you. And, he's the guy who is out there finding the empty areas of the field that are cleared out by AJ and OD. He has the heighth and the arm length to grab those lofted "touch" passes that slip over the heads of the defenders who lost track of him.

Theoritically, all three guys are doing things that are unique and provide the offense with aspects that enable the offense to be potent with Andre Johnson out there. With a good, calm QB who stands in there and throws the ball (Schaub) it's why this offense is doing so well. And this is not even considering what Owen Daniels brings to the mix. He has traits of all those three guys, maybe even approaching the level of dynamic skill set that AJ has.

Keeping all these guys together, IMO, is a smart thing. If it can't happen, I think Martinez can fit either Anderson's spot or Walter's spot if we lost either Anderson or Walter.

But if I had to choose to vote one of those guys out of the Texans tribe, I have to reluctantly write down David Anderson's name on the slip of paper. Nothing personal. But I'd like to retain Walter's skill set when compared to David Anderson's. While DA's role is important, I think it's the one Wr role that can be filled most easily.

That's my whole opinion on the issue of our WR crew. I think it's smart to keep these guys together. They have a good thing going on--they are in rhythm with one another and know what to do at all times--so I hope we keep those pieces in place.

HuttoKarl
03-02-2010, 10:30 AM
That is just silly talk. 2 of those guys are game breakers( a third could be but he has been a #3) and would open it up for AJ even more. Walters is a complimentary guy who works the field well. There is no way the Texans get them or go after them but to stay you'd rather have Walters seems silly to me. In my book there are other Kevin Walter types who can be your #2 and even some that are more athletic and could do more.

Two of those guys are going to command #1 money. One of them is snakebit and will probably want to be paid on potential rather than production. Kevin Walter, for the price and based on past performance, is a better option in my opinion than any of them would be. He's familiar with the system. He does everything his coaching staff asks and needs from him. He doesn't whine or complain or piss or moan.

BigBull17
03-02-2010, 10:42 AM
Here's the logistics, IMO:

SCORING THREAT AND REAL ESTATE EATER:
Jacoby Jones is chomping up the field in bigger chunks when he's out there, as compared to David Anderson who is bottom man on the totem pole when it comes to practically every statistical category. His 6 TDs is four more than Walter and 6 more than Anderson. He's the guy who can score if he gets the ball in the right spot at the right time.

THE SAFETY VALVE WHEN SCHAUB IS UNDER PRESSURE:
David Anderson makes those little short, choppy receptions where other guys are covered and Schaub needs to get rid of the ball quickly. He runs the quick-outs, the little slants, etc. It's his role. But he gets hunted down once he makes the catch, and he's no real threat to a defense on a down-by-down basis. His role is to catch that ball and make something out of nothing.

THE "GO TO" GUY WHEN YOU NEED A 1st DOWN:
Kevin Walter is the guy who has the most 1st downs (33 compared to JJ's 19 and DA's 22). He has the most comparable stats to JJ, but yet he's not getting into the end zone that much. He's the guy, on 3rd and 6, who runs a curl route and ends up getting 6.5 yards and the first down for you. And, he's the guy who is out there finding the empty areas of the field that are cleared out by AJ and OD. He has the heighth and the arm length to grab those lofted "touch" passes that slip over the heads of the defenders who lost track of him.

Theoritically, all three guys are doing things that are unique and provide the offense with aspects that enable the offense to be potent with Andre Johnson out there. With a good, calm QB who stands in there and throws the ball (Schaub) it's why this offense is doing so well. And this is not even considering what Owen Daniels brings to the mix. He has traits of all those three guys, maybe even approaching the level of dynamic skill set that AJ has.

Keeping all these guys together, IMO, is a smart thing. If it can't happen, I think Martinez can fit either Anderson's spot or Walter's spot if we lost either Anderson or Walter.

But if I had to choose to vote one of those guys out of the Texans tribe, I have to reluctantly write down David Anderson's name on the slip of paper. Nothing personal. But I'd like to retain Walter's skill set when compared to David Anderson's. While DA's role is important, I think it's the one Wr role that can be filled most easily.

That's my whole opinion on the issue of our WR crew. I think it's smart to keep these guys together. They have a good thing going on--they are in rhythm with one another and know what to do at all times--so I hope we keep those pieces in place.

I agree with all this. JJ needs to see the field a little more, IMO. Also agree the only one who could really be upgraded is DA. Not saying we need to, but he could be.

HoustonFrog
03-02-2010, 11:06 AM
Two of those guys are going to command #1 money. One of them is snakebit and will probably want to be paid on potential rather than production. Kevin Walter, for the price and based on past performance, is a better option in my opinion than any of them would be. He's familiar with the system. He does everything his coaching staff asks and needs from him. He doesn't whine or complain or piss or moan.

I was just saying it purely on talent. For the money, etc, of course you don't need to get a #1 guy to go with AJ. But to say you'd rather have him just on their ability, I'll take some of the others. Austin, for example , is a playmaker and a great team guy.

infantrycak
03-02-2010, 11:12 AM
See, this is a tag that doesn't apply to JJ. At least not last season.

He had the bobbled fair catch in game 2 vs. the Titans.

He had the bobbled pass reception in game 16 that became an interception and a return for a TD by the Patriots.

Other than those two bobbles, he came down with the catch on passes that had a reasonable chance to be caught. He even caught some that others would not have been able to get to, IMO.

He didn't fumble but he did have 5 drops on 35 targets. Needs to be working with the Jugs machine.

Section516
03-02-2010, 11:37 AM
What happens when Jacoby Jones feels like sleeping in and missing a game over it?

Yeah. Thats who i want as a make or break player.

Screw KW.

:sarcasm:

I love JJ. I love KW. I want to keep them both. JJ provides something when he feels like not being a knucklehead.

HuttoKarl
03-02-2010, 11:43 AM
No kidding...why not try to keep a successful WR core together? AJ, KW, and JJ along with whatever retread/draft pick we can use to round it out?

We're so used to a dearth of talent on the team that we seem to want to allow players who are actually good to walk. Depth of talent is a good thing.

thetrooper
03-02-2010, 11:51 AM
We better not lose him.
I'll have to change my signature line.:gun:

yeah that would suck on many levels

Thorn
03-02-2010, 11:56 AM
If we lost Walter but kept all the rest of our recievers we would be in good shape. You can always draft a another WR in the late rounds.

HuttoKarl
03-02-2010, 12:42 PM
I was just saying it purely on talent. For the money, etc, of course you don't need to get a #1 guy to go with AJ. But to say you'd rather have him just on their ability, I'll take some of the others. Austin, for example , is a playmaker and a great team guy.

If you're talking talent, I'd rather have Fitzgerald and Lee Evans, but in the NFL you have to evaluate on both talent and money.

BullNation4Life
03-02-2010, 01:43 PM
Miles Austin is not going anywhere.
Vincent Jackson will want to be paid as a #1 WR because that's what he is.
Steve Breaston shows flashes of goodness in between knee injuries and hobbles.

I'd rather have Walter than any of them.

I agree but wouldn't any one of those players be more than sufficient as a #2 if Walter leaves? I mean he is Kevin Walter, the same guy who couldn't get a starting gig in Cinncy behind Ochocinco, Who'sUrMama and Chris Henry (RIP). I just think that if he goes, so be it. It will not devastate the offense as much as loosing OD for example. We all saw what happened when he went down, right?

BullNation4Life
03-02-2010, 01:46 PM
That is just silly talk. 2 of those guys are game breakers( a third could be but he has been a #3) and would open it up for AJ even more. Walters is a complimentary guy who works the field well. There is no way the Texans get them or go after them but to stay you'd rather have Walters seems silly to me. In my book there are other Kevin Walter types who can be your #2 and even some that are more athletic and could do more.

:bravo: This is all I was saying...

GP
03-02-2010, 01:56 PM
He didn't fumble but he did have 5 drops on 35 targets. Needs to be working with the Jugs machine.

Meh. 5 drops. I am willing to place a bet that DA or KW had at least 2 or 3 drops (each) over the course of the season. The two that could have hurt us badly were the two I mentioned.

One thing I think I have noticed about Jacoby is that he catches punts and passes more easily when his feet are moving quickly. If you get him standing still, or slowing down, his brain short-circuits. If he never keeps his stride, he's lethal.

He would make an AWFUL outfielder in baseball. Those high, soft pop-flies would kill him.

infantrycak
03-02-2010, 02:16 PM
Meh. 5 drops. I am willing to place a bet that DA or KW had at least 2 or 3 drops (each) over the course of the season. The two that could have hurt us badly were the two I mentioned.

Walter had 1 and Anderson is down for 0. 5 drops out of 35 targets is high.

BullNation4Life
03-02-2010, 02:29 PM
Walter had 1 and Anderson is down for 0. 5 drops out of 35 targets is high.

speaking of drops, how about Braylon Edwards as replacement for Walter?

infantrycak
03-02-2010, 02:34 PM
speaking of drops, how about Braylon Edwards as replacement for Walter?

The Jets have said they are going to give him the highest RFA tender.

BullNation4Life
03-02-2010, 03:26 PM
The Jets have said they are going to give him the highest RFA tender.

really? Soooo how many drops will it take for them to regret that decision?

HOU-TEX
03-03-2010, 09:59 AM
Interesting tidbit about K-dub. IMO, the Texans need to get busy with their FA's and RFA tenders/negotiating.

A league source tells beat writer Jamison Hensley that the Ravens have been watching a lot of film on unrestricted free agent Kevin Walter.

Walter would be a nice addition for the Ravens if they can't land Anquan Boldin or Brandon Marshall in a trade. Walter is a plus blocker and could complement Derrick Mason with his willingness to go over the middle.

http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/home_NFL.aspx

BullNation4Life
03-03-2010, 11:05 AM
Interesting tidbit about K-dub. IMO, the Texans need to get busy with their FA's and RFA tenders/negotiating.



http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/home_NFL.aspx

Washington would also be a good destination. Wouldn't have a steep learning curve in that offense, being it is the same one being run now...

HOU-TEX
03-03-2010, 11:09 AM
Washington would also be a good destination. Wouldn't have a steep learning curve in that offense, being it is the same one being run now...

True, plus Shanny Jr being there too

BullNation4Life
03-03-2010, 11:35 AM
True, plus Shanny Jr being there too

Hell if you think about it, if Walter were to land there, they would have a nice little WR core there in DC. Moss, Randel El and Walter. They just need someone to throw the ball. Bradford or a McCoy maybe?

Then Walter could exact is revenge this upcoming season when the Texans play the Redskins...

El Tejano
03-03-2010, 12:13 PM
Hell if you think about it, if Walter were to land there, they would have a nice little WR core there in DC. Moss, Randel El and Walter. They just need someone to throw the ball. Bradford or a McCoy maybe?

Then Walter could exact is revenge this upcoming season when the Texans play the Redskins...

Walter would look like a giant (no pun intended) if he was on that receiving corp.

Blake
03-03-2010, 01:53 PM
The Jets have said they are going to give him the highest RFA tender.

Jeez. At that price you might as well go after Brandon Marshall.

LonerATO
03-03-2010, 02:39 PM
If the Texans can get something for him I would be ok with the trade. There is a ton of talent this year and they could go after Williams from Tulane, Eric Decker from the Sota or Andre Roberts from Citadel.

HOU-TEX
03-03-2010, 02:59 PM
If the Texans can get something for him I would be ok with the trade. There is a ton of talent this year and they could go after Williams from Tulane, Eric Decker from the Sota or Andre Roberts from Citadel.

He's a unrestricted FA. There'd be no trade and the only thing we might get for him is a late round compensatory draft pick for next year.

ArlingtonTexan
03-03-2010, 03:54 PM
One thing to note on this situation is that remember Kevin Walter is facing the one time in his career where he can potentially cash in for that one huge payday. He was a low round draft pick, and did not get silly money from the Texans when he signed here. Even if the Texans have offer a good contract, my guess is that Walter feels (I don't know him obviously) that he owes it to himself and his family to see what is out there especially in a thin FA WR market.

ArlingtonTexan
03-03-2010, 04:09 PM
http://www.profootballweekly.com/2010/03/03/texans-acknowledge-re-signing-walter-will-be-chall

Speaking at the NFL Scouting Combine, Texans general manager Rick Smith indicated that re-signing UFA WR Kevin Walter would be challenging. "We would like to have Kevin back," Smith said, noting he had talked to Walter's agent. "… He is an important part of our football team and we would like to (keep him.) Unfortunately the thing about free agency now is, you can't keep everybody. When you talk about putting a football team together and structuring your team and trying to improve and get better, you've got to make some tough decisions. And sometimes, you've got to let players go that you otherwise wouldn't want to. That's just a part of it." Walter, who turns 29 in August, caught 53 passes for 611 yards and two TDs in 14 starts for Houston last season. He missed a pair of games with a hamstring injury. One factor that would reduce the sting if Walter departed: the Texans have good WR depth. Jacoby Jones, talented but still developing, would step in for Walter, and reserves André Davis and David Anderson are also capable pass catchers. Other UFA wide receivers include the Derrick Mason, Antonio Bryant, Chris Chambers, Terrell Owens and Nate Burleson.

False Start
03-03-2010, 06:20 PM
Just heard the Ravens are taking a look at him, please Texans..... don't let this guy get away.

Beau Texan
03-03-2010, 06:37 PM
u can kiss demeco ryans good bye too! the leading tackler on the team and they won't pay him. well at least we'll get a 1 & a 3rd round pick for him.

JB
03-04-2010, 07:10 AM
u can kiss demeco ryans good bye too! the leading tackler on the team and they won't pay him. well at least we'll get a 1 & a 3rd round pick for him.

This is a pretty worthless comment. Do you have any facts do base this on?

Thorn
03-04-2010, 07:12 AM
This is a pretty worthless comment. Do you have any facts do base this on?

Yep, pretty much. According to everything put out so far, negoations are under way. And that can mean a lot of different things as we all know by now.

HuttoKarl
03-04-2010, 08:48 AM
One thing to note on this situation is that remember Kevin Walter is facing the one time in his career where he can potentially cash in for that one huge payday. He was a low round draft pick, and did not get silly money from the Texans when he signed here. Even if the Texans have offer a good contract, my guess is that Walter feels (I don't know him obviously) that he owes it to himself and his family to see what is out there especially in a thin FA WR market.

I definitely couldn't fault him for taking the biggest payday he can get. I would hope it would be from us, but I'm not really holding out hope at this point.

Mike Kerns
03-04-2010, 10:40 AM
Texans are trying to re-sign Kevin Walter. If he gets a better offer somewhere else, Jacoby Jones will be elevated. That's scary.

Per McClain.

I guess I'm the only one who actually likes Jacoby.

m5kwatts
03-04-2010, 11:51 AM
Per McClain.

I guess I'm the only one who actually likes Jacoby.

I think whats "scary" about it is his work ethic and dedication... although with a potential starting gig as the carrot dangled in front of your face, I'd think he'd sack up and put in the work. The benching at the end of the season was disturbing for a guy who seemed to have turned a corner.

I don't think anyones questioning his ability if his minds right. He could have a huge year.

BigBull17
03-04-2010, 11:55 AM
I think whats "scary" about it is his work ethic and dedication... although with a potential starting gig as the carrot dangled in front of your face, I'd think he'd sack up and put in the work. The benching at the end of the season was disturbing for a guy who seemed to have turned a corner.

I don't think anyones questioning his ability if his minds right. He could have a huge year.

I think we need to resign Walter, but JJ has to get more PT. If you don't trust him enough to use him more this year, cut bait and go after a small school speed guy in the later rounds. Time to shit or get off the pot, IMO.

Cjeremy635
03-04-2010, 12:10 PM
I think whats "scary" about it is his work ethic and dedication... although with a potential starting gig as the carrot dangled in front of your face, I'd think he'd sack up and put in the work. The benching at the end of the season was disturbing for a guy who seemed to have turned a corner.

I don't think anyones questioning his ability if his minds right. He could have a huge year.

This. :cutthroat:

ArlingtonTexan
03-04-2010, 05:34 PM
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=nfl&id=2523

rumor: back to the Bengals?

HouSportsWriter
03-04-2010, 07:29 PM
:voodoo::choke::slapfight:http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d816b7e94&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true


it has kevin has the #1 bargin free agent



bye walter we will all miss you!

2slik4u
03-04-2010, 07:32 PM
:voodoo::choke::slapfight:http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d816b7e94&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true


it has kevin has the #1 bargin free agent



bye walter we will all miss you!

EH....I would like to have walter but its not gonna break my heart if he leaves. I think Jacoby would taken over the #2 spot anyways. Hes a great player but I think the Texans will move on and find someone to take his spot.

Cjeremy635
03-04-2010, 07:40 PM
EH....I would like to have walter but its not gonna break my heart if he leaves. I think Jacoby would taken over the #2 spot anyways. Hes a great player but I think the Texans will move on and find someone to take his spot.

I keep reading that from posters on here, but I just don't get the warm and fuzzies for the guy. I think he's got great speed and makes a few good plays for you, but I don't have confidence in him like I do for Kevin. I think that Jacoby scared the crap out of me with the muffed punts and I've never gotten over that.....makes me hold my breath when he runs with the ball too. I also got really disappointed when he got left at home for a game due to his actions. The more I think about it, maybe it's his maturity issues that bother me more than anything else. Bad thing about it though, his maturity will directly impact his growth as a player. I just feel that it's a step backwards with him as our main #2 instead of a step forward. If Kevin ends up leaving, I hope to hell that I'm wrong.

J_R
03-04-2010, 07:45 PM
All the signs,reports,etc point to Kevin leaving. Hate to see him go. I'm not one who is comfortable with JJ as the #2. Him, DA, and AD are suited just fine in the roles they are in with this team imo. He has some maturing to do [as the poster above pointed out] before I'd be comfortable giving him the starting job.

2slik4u
03-04-2010, 07:47 PM
I keep reading that from posters on here, but I just don't get the warm and fuzzies for the guy. I think he's got great speed and makes a few good plays for you, but I don't have confidence in him like I do for Kevin. I think that Jacoby scared the crap out of me with the muffed punts and I've never gotten over that.....makes me hold my breath when he runs with the ball too. I also got really disappointed when he got left at home for a game due to his actions. The more I think about it, maybe it's his maturity issues that bother me more than anything else. Bad thing about it though, his maturity will directly impact his growth as a player. I just feel that it's a step backwards with him as our main #2 instead of a step forward. If Kevin ends up leaving, I hope to hell that I'm wrong.

Im not saying Jacoby is already there. The guy showed great progress last year with his route running, pass catching, and of course big play abilities. I think the fact that Kubes left his ass home was one of the best things to happen to him. I think that was some sort of wake up call for the guy. I too hold my breathe every time he returns punts but he has fielded many punts since his last muffed one. That shows a lot to me that he is working on his faults and he wants to get better. Im just saying, Kevin Walter never had that big play ability, he was always just a solid possesion guy. dont get me wrong, i like that stability but the upside on Jacoby is very exciting. I think AJ and Jacoby next year will turn heads as one of the premiere WR duos in the league.

You heard it here first.

If we can somehow field AJ as #1, Jacoby as #2 on the other side and K-dub as our slot WR, that would be ideal and dangerous at the same time.

Cjeremy635
03-04-2010, 08:05 PM
Im not saying Jacoby is already there. The guy showed great progress last year with his route running, pass catching, and of course big play abilities. I think the fact that Kubes left his ass home was one of the best things to happen to him. I think that was some sort of wake up call for the guy. I too hold my breathe every time he returns punts but he has fielded many punts since his last muffed one. That shows a lot to me that he is working on his faults and he wants to get better. Im just saying, Kevin Walter never had that big play ability, he was always just a solid possesion guy. dont get me wrong, i like that stability but the upside on Jacoby is very exciting. I think AJ and Jacoby next year will turn heads as one of the premiere WR duos in the league.

You heard it here first.

If we can somehow field AJ as #1, Jacoby as #2 on the other side and K-dub as our slot WR, that would be ideal and dangerous at the same time.

That's what I admire about Kevin. His ability to go across the middle and make the tough catch. I'm hoping JJ proves me wrong, I just think it's still a year early in his development for him to be the solid #2. If he could step up big this year (play and maturity), then I may feel more at ease with him taking on that role in the 2011 season.

2slik4u
03-04-2010, 08:08 PM
That's what I admire about Kevin. His ability to go across the middle and make the tough catch. I'm hoping JJ proves me wrong, I just think it's still a year early in his development for him to be the solid #2. If he could step up big this year (play and maturity), then I may feel more at ease with him taking on that role in the 2011 season.

Only time will tell my friend.....only time. For my prides sake (and the team of course), I hope Im right.

Cjeremy635
03-04-2010, 08:12 PM
Only time will tell my friend.....only time. For my prides sake (and the team of course), I hope Im right.

For our team's sake, I hope you're right too. I'd love to have my concerns lifted on this issue. If JJ can get it all to come together, he'll be really successful for us. I just see him as his own worst enemy though.

TheRealJoker
03-04-2010, 08:16 PM
If KW leaves, that elevates WR on our list of needs to bring in some competition for JJ and take over JJ's return duties if they don't beat him out in camp.

I'd love to see Jordan Shipley in a Texan uniform if KW signs elsewhere. If we don't find a replacement atleast at JJ's position the passing offense will suffer which we certainly cannot afford.

Cjeremy635
03-04-2010, 08:24 PM
My biggest question is what are they (the powers that be) planning? I could only see letting him walk if we have plans to upgrade at the position. It would aggrevate me to slide sideways and really piss me off to take a step backwards at the position. I'm trying to keep faith until proven wrong though. It's still early and I can't afford to start having anxiety attacks at this point in the offseason! :hairpull:

2slik4u
03-04-2010, 08:42 PM
If KW leaves, that elevates WR on our list of needs to bring in some competition for JJ and take over JJ's return duties if they don't beat him out in camp.

I'd love to see Jordan Shipley in a Texan uniform if KW signs elsewhere. If we don't find a replacement atleast at JJ's position the passing offense will suffer which we certainly cannot afford.

jeez, if we could see shipley in a texan jersey.....they might as well give us the damn lombardi trophy.:sarcasm:

but seriously, that would be friggin awesome. out goes KW and in comes shipley? fuhgetta about it.

TheRealJoker
03-04-2010, 09:30 PM
My biggest question is what are they (the powers that be) planning? I could only see letting him walk if we have plans to upgrade at the position. It would aggrevate me to slide sideways and really piss me off to take a step backwards at the position. I'm trying to keep faith until proven wrong though. It's still early and I can't afford to start having anxiety attacks at this point in the offseason! :hairpull:

I wouldn't be surprised at all if they use a 2nd round pick on a WR if KW leaves. I would be a bit perturbed if they used a 1st but I wouldn't be opposed to a 2nd. You've gotta make sure the strength of your team keeps on moving like a well oiled machine.

That's why the Colts are always contenders (other than Seyton of course) they are always looking to find # 18 weapons to make sure he can do his job well. Remember when they drafted Gonzo in the 1st round after already having Harrison/Wayne at WR and Dallas Clark at TE? You've gotta keep the strength of your team in optimal condition if you want to win games.

We need to get stronger in the trenches on both sides of the ball but we also need to realize that we aren't gonna be developing gameplans to beat teams at the point of attack running the ball 40+ times in a game. We're a passing team, our HC is a former QB, we have weak but fast OL. If we want to win we've gotta play to our strengths.

If KW walks, WR is just as important as all our other needs imo. If JJ doesn't work out we've gotta have somebody who can step up to the plate and take pressure off of AJ/OD. On the other hand, if JJ shines we've gotta have somebody who can take PRs to JJ's momma on gameday.

Cjeremy635
03-04-2010, 10:28 PM
I wouldn't be surprised at all if they use a 2nd round pick on a WR if KW leaves. I would be a bit perturbed if they used a 1st but I wouldn't be opposed to a 2nd. You've gotta make sure the strength of your team keeps on moving like a well oiled machine.

That's why the Colts are always contenders (other than Seyton of course) they are always looking to find # 18 weapons to make sure he can do his job well. Remember when they drafted Gonzo in the 1st round after already having Harrison/Wayne at WR and Dallas Clark at TE? You've gotta keep the strength of your team in optimal condition if you want to win games.

We need to get stronger in the trenches on both sides of the ball but we also need to realize that we aren't gonna be developing gameplans to beat teams at the point of attack running the ball 40+ times in a game. We're a passing team, our HC is a former QB, we have weak but fast OL. If we want to win we've gotta play to our strengths.

If KW walks, WR is just as important as all our other needs imo. If JJ doesn't work out we've gotta have somebody who can step up to the plate and take pressure off of AJ/OD. On the other hand, if JJ shines we've gotta have somebody who can take PRs to JJ's momma on gameday.

I see what you're saying. My main problem with the situtation, atleast how I see it, is that we have too many positions of NEED to fill instead of spending high draft picks on WANTS. Does that make sense? What I'm referring to are CB, Safety, DT, etc. If we are planning a FA move to upgrade those positions,that's one thing, but I'd hate to see us let KW walk and have to use a 2nd round draft pick on a receiver. It would be one thing if we were one solid #2 away from a super bowl run, but we have higher priorities, IMHO, for us to become a legit playoff team.

rmartin65
03-04-2010, 10:32 PM
If Walter leaves (hopefully not), I could see the Texans spending a higher pick on a wideout. Anybody else see Arrelious Benn being a good fit in Walter's role?

steelbtexan
03-04-2010, 10:54 PM
If Walter leaves (hopefully not), I could see the Texans spending a higher pick on a wideout. Anybody else see Arrelious Benn being a good fit in Walter's role?

I would love to see Benn drafted in the 2nd rd.

It could happen if the Texans can fill 3 needs in FA.

Probably not gonna happen.

TheRealJoker
03-04-2010, 11:05 PM
I see what you're saying. My main problem with the situtation, atleast how I see it, is that we have too many positions of NEED to fill instead of spending high draft picks on WANTS. Does that make sense? What I'm referring to are CB, Safety, DT, etc. If we are planning a FA move to upgrade those positions,that's one thing, but I'd hate to see us let KW walk and have to use a 2nd round draft pick on a receiver. It would be one thing if we were one solid #2 away from a super bowl run, but we have higher priorities, IMHO, for us to become a legit playoff team.

Plenty of playoff teams that had holes this past season. There's not a single team out there that doesn't have a noticeable weakness at a position on the roster. The key is to minimize the weaknesses while maximizing the strengths.

Say we find a DT in the 2nd round. We "banged the hole" as threetoedpete puts it but we passed up a replacement for either KW's # 2 WR position or JJ's production at WR/PR unless we nail a pick in the later rounds. Plus DTs normally take a couple years to be productive (we're still waiting on our top 10 DT to be less baby and more Sapp).

If KW leaves, WR is just as high a priority. We need to make sure Schaub maintains high quality targets, especially if OD doesn't come return 100% or football gods forbid AJ gets hurt.

J_R
03-04-2010, 11:05 PM
Ravens beat writer Jamison Hensley reiterates that there is "strong talk" linking free agent Kevin Walter to the Ravens as the open market approaches.

It's notable that both of the Ravens' top two reporters -- Hensley and Aaron Wilson of the Carroll County Times -- are picking up very positive vibes about Walter. Baltimore currently appears the clear-cut favorite to sign him.



Hello Jacoby?

TexanBacker93
03-05-2010, 08:40 AM
If KW leaves, that elevates WR on our list of needs to bring in some competition for JJ and take over JJ's return duties if they don't beat him out in camp.

I'd love to see Jordan Shipley in a Texan uniform if KW signs elsewhere. If we don't find a replacement atleast at JJ's position the passing offense will suffer which we certainly cannot afford.

Shipley gets mentioned in a lot of articles about the types of players that aren't real flashy but end up having solid NFL careers. He could probably fit the KW role just fine. It won't take a high draft pick to get him either.

Battle Red Flash
03-05-2010, 09:30 AM
My belief is the Texans should do what it takes to keep KW.
Because defenses paid more attention to KW last year is a big reason OD went off.
Also, (and follow me here), the reason Rich Gannon had such great years in Oakland was because he could trust his WR's to run the right routes every time. He had J Rice and T Brown.
One of the reasons Schaub had such a good year last year was he could trust AJ, Walter and OD to most always run the right route.
Can the same be said of Jacoby Jones? I highly doubt it. If KW walks, watch Schaub's INT's go up next year.
In an uncapped year, there is no excuse to let KW sign with another team.

....and that's all I got to say about that.

Big Lou
03-05-2010, 09:51 AM
Shipley gets mentioned in a lot of articles about the types of players that aren't real flashy but end up having solid NFL careers. He could probably fit the KW role just fine. It won't take a high draft pick to get him either.

I love me some Jordan Shipley, and would love him in a Texans uniform, but he needs about 4" in height and 15 to 20 pounds of mass to be K-Dub. I'm sure he can get the weight, but I don't know if he can be stretched to 6' 3" or so. Height can be important for a pocession type reciever, expecially in the end zone.

I think that Safety and Weak Side LB's will have thier way with Shipley in the NFL. But hey I could be wrong, and I hope I am, because as I said I like the guy.....

infantrycak
03-05-2010, 09:52 AM
In an uncapped year, there is no excuse to let KW sign with another team.

....and that's all I got to say about that.

Folks keep saying things like this and it is unrealistic. The players aren't wanting one year contracts that will only apply in the uncapped year. They are wanting 5-7 year deals and so the teams have to plan for more than just this uncapped year.

Big Lou
03-05-2010, 09:53 AM
My belief is the Texans should do what it takes to keep KW.
Because defenses paid more attention to KW last year is a big reason OD went off.
Also, (and follow me here), the reason Rich Gannon had such great years in Oakland was because he could trust his WR's to run the right routes every time. He had J Rice and T Brown.
One of the reasons Schaub had such a good year last year was he could trust AJ, Walter and OD to most always run the right route.
Can the same be said of Jacoby Jones? I highly doubt it. If KW walks, watch Schaub's INT's go up next year.
In an uncapped year, there is no excuse to let KW sign with another team.

....and that's all I got to say about that.



You are dead on BFR. I think a lot of folks are underestimating the impact KW has on this offense. I think the system helps him a lot too, but if he's gone I have a bad feeling........

IDEXAN
03-05-2010, 10:11 AM
Wide receiver Kevin Walter is the most in-demand. According to this note that appeared early this morning in the St. Petersburg Times, Walter has been linked to several teams including the Ravens, Bucs, Bears. Patriots, and Jaguars. Walter has also been mentioned along with Cleveland and Cincinnati. Any team needing a solid #2 wide out is probably interested.
http://www.examiner.com/x-778-Houston-Texans-Examiner~y2010m3d5-Texans-unrestricted-free-agent-update--Walter-in-high-demand
*************************
Sounds like KW is drawing lots of interest.

J_R
03-05-2010, 10:16 AM
^^Yeah sounds like Kevin Walter is gone.

I'm somewhat surprised there has been no mention or talk of the Texans trying to work something out with him. Only "we want him back".

texanfan2002114
03-05-2010, 10:17 AM
Wide receiver Kevin Walter is the most in-demand. According to this note that appeared early this morning in the St. Petersburg Times, Walter has been linked to several teams including the Ravens, Bucs, Bears. Patriots, and Jaguars. Walter has also been mentioned along with Cleveland and Cincinnati. Any team needing a solid #2 wide out is probably interested.
http://www.examiner.com/x-778-Houston-Texans-Examiner~y2010m3d5-Texans-unrestricted-free-agent-update--Walter-in-high-demand
*************************
Sounds like KW is drawing lots of interest.

And it sucks the Texans aren't taking care of their own! KW should be here! Had a injury season last year but is a heck of a footbal player!

J_R
03-05-2010, 10:46 AM
LanceZierlein Texans losing Kevin Walter not the end of the world but he is a pro and a guy the texans could count on. They don't have that luxury now

jaayteetx
03-05-2010, 10:49 AM
I like KW and all, but something tells me his production is gonna go way down without the luxury of lining up opposite of the best WR in the game. JJ needs to see the field more anyway, he is a playmaker plain and simple.

TEXANS84
03-05-2010, 10:49 AM
Wide receiver Kevin Walter is the most in-demand. According to this note that appeared early this morning in the St. Petersburg Times, Walter has been linked to several teams including the Ravens, Bucs, Bears. Patriots, and Jaguars. Walter has also been mentioned along with Cleveland and Cincinnati. Any team needing a solid #2 wide out is probably interested.
http://www.examiner.com/x-778-Houston-Texans-Examiner~y2010m3d5-Texans-unrestricted-free-agent-update--Walter-in-high-demand
*************************
Sounds like KW is drawing lots of interest.

I'd get pissed if KW signs with JAX.

False Start
03-05-2010, 10:53 AM
Yeah, this really sucks. Losing K Dub is going to really hurt this offense more than some folks think. I really hope we have a back up plan, that doesn't involve JJ. While JJ showed improvement last season, I still don't trust the guy to be our # 2 receiver.

LonerATO
03-05-2010, 10:59 AM
Something tells me that he goes for the cash and the Texans wont match the amount, but I would be ok with that as long as they pay Ryans, Daniels and Pollard.

JWarren14
03-05-2010, 10:59 AM
Riley Cooper will be the next Kevin Walter

TheCD
03-05-2010, 11:02 AM
Folks keep saying things like this and it is unrealistic. The players aren't wanting one year contracts that will only apply in the uncapped year. They are wanting 5-7 year deals and so the teams have to plan for more than just this uncapped year.

Because this year is uncapped, isn't it possible to give KW a frontloaded contract with most of the guaranteed money he's seeking this year, and thus reverting to a very manageable contract from there on if the cap returns? That seems like it would be doable if we really wanted him back.

steelbtexan
03-05-2010, 11:07 AM
Because this year is uncapped, isn't it possible to give KW a frontloaded contract with most of the guaranteed money he's seeking this year, and thus reverting to a very manageable contract from there on if the cap returns? That seems like it would be doable if we really wanted him back.

McNair could do this with any FA.

Dont look for this to happen though.

IDEXAN
03-05-2010, 11:14 AM
Something tells me that he goes for the cash and the Texans wont match the amount, but I would be ok with that as long as they pay Ryans, Daniels and Pollard.
I don't think the Texans get the opp to match any offer KW receives because
he's an Unrestricted FA.

infantrycak
03-05-2010, 11:24 AM
Because this year is uncapped, isn't it possible to give KW a frontloaded contract with most of the guaranteed money he's seeking this year, and thus reverting to a very manageable contract from there on if the cap returns? That seems like it would be doable if we really wanted him back.

Sure but that is just an accounting issue which doesn't really affect the underlying contract. Being an uncapped year doesn't mean a 5 year $25 mil player suddenly becomes worth 5 year $35 mil.

Second Honeymoon
03-05-2010, 11:33 AM
Sure but that is just an accounting issue which doesn't really affect the underlying contract. Being an uncapped year doesn't mean a 5 year $25 mil player suddenly becomes worth 5 year $35 mil.

if he ends up signing a $35 million dollar deal, then he is worth the money. Market dictates your salary, not solely your play. You can think he is only worth $25 million but if someone else pays him more that doesn't mean he isn't worth it, that just means you weren't willing to pony up the money.

Bottom line is that we are losing players left and right (perhaps one of the hardest hit of any team) while we are Top 5 Revenue team that is supposedly trying to take the next step and make the playoffs. Is this a great job? Are the Texans doing the right thing by getting worse? Really?

The Chargers could end up losing a lot of starters, but other than them I think the Texans could be the hardest hit of any team. Why is that? Why can't we keep our players.

Look at what Detroit, EVEN DETROIT, did with VandenBosch. They frontloaded his deal giving him $10 million in 2010 (the uncapped year). But you know what that takes? Cash. Money. McNair seems he loves money more than winning. $500 million increase in his franchise just isn't enough I guess. Raise Ticket Prices. Drop Payroll. :(

Go Texans?

TheCD
03-05-2010, 11:34 AM
Sure but that is just an accounting issue which doesn't really affect the underlying contract. Being an uncapped year doesn't mean a 5 year $25 mil player suddenly becomes worth 5 year $35 mil.

What I'm getting at is this:

Say KW wants a $30 mil. contract for 5 years with $15 mil. guaranteed. That's a base salary of $3 mil. per year. Couldn't we frontload $10 mil. in the first year in guaranteed money so that we're only paying him a little over $4 mil. per year if the cap comes back so that we can keep him at a price that he wants?

Now this all presumes that we want him back. But I think that's the key to getting any FA this year that wants big money. A reasonable salary with a frontloaded contract that can be absorbed while there is no cap.

dalemurphy
03-05-2010, 11:37 AM
What I'm getting at is this:

Say KW wants a $30 mil. contract for 5 years with $15 mil. guaranteed. That's a base salary of $3 mil. per year. Couldn't we frontload $10 mil. in the first year in guaranteed money so that we're only paying him a little over $4 mil. per year if the cap comes back so that we can keep him at a price that he wants?

Now this all presumes that we want him back. But I think that's the key to getting any FA this year that wants big money. A reasonable salary with a frontloaded contract that can be absorbed while there is no cap.

Yes, the Lions have done this with the KVB deal, apparently. What you do is split the guaranteed money into a signing bonus and a roster bonus. So, if $20 million is guaranteed, you give a $10 million signing bonus and $10 million roster bonus owed the player if he's on the roster in August of this year. The roster bonus only counts towards this season. Therefore, only the $10 million signing bonus is spread over the life of the contract if and when a new cap is set.

infantrycak
03-05-2010, 11:42 AM
What I'm getting at is this:

Say KW wants a $30 mil. contract for 5 years with $15 mil. guaranteed. That's a base salary of $3 mil. per year. Couldn't we frontload $10 mil. in the first year in guaranteed money so that we're only paying him a little over $4 mil. per year if the cap comes back so that we can keep him at a price that he wants?

Now this all presumes that we want him back. But I think that's the key to getting any FA this year that wants big money. A reasonable salary with a frontloaded contract that can be absorbed while there is no cap.

Sure you can do that and I hope they do take advantage of that mechanism but it doesn't change the underlying value of the player. That's what I was getting at. Whatever his market value is what it is. Folks are saying well uncapped year so pay him whatever to keep him. I don't think any of the owners are approaching this off-season that way.

Yes, the Lions have done this with the KVB deal, apparently. What you do is split the guaranteed money into a signing bonus and a roster bonus. So, if $20 million is guaranteed, you give a $10 million signing bonus and $10 million roster bonus owed the player if he's on the roster in August of this year. The roster bonus only counts towards this season. Therefore, only the $10 million signing bonus is spread over the life of the contract if and when a new cap is set.

Or no signing bonus at all and just a roster bonus due the day after the contract is signed. The Vikings did that with Antoine Winfield when they signed him.

Second Honeymoon
03-05-2010, 11:51 AM
Sure you can do that and I hope they do take advantage of that mechanism but it doesn't change the underlying value of the player. That's what I was getting at. Whatever his market value is what it is. Folks are saying well uncapped year so pay him whatever to keep him. I don't think any of the owners are approaching this off-season that way.



Or no signing bonus at all and just a roster bonus due the day after the contract is signed. The Vikings did that with Antoine Winfield when they signed him.

that takes cash up front and not chicken feed. mcnair won't do this because its too cost prohibitive and can be risky if the player is injured and/or ineffective. any owner using the cap as an excuse are lying to your face. there are risks in frontloading but that is how it is. seems like other teams are willing to spend money....sucks that our owner is in windfall profit mode.

plain and simple. if you want the player, you have to pay him. we want the player we just dont want to pay him.

current scoreboard = 3 starters lost, no starters gained

JB
03-05-2010, 11:55 AM
that takes cash up front and not chicken feed. mcnair won't do this because its too cost prohibitive and can be risky if the player is injured and/or ineffective. any owner using the cap as an excuse are lying to your face. there are risks in frontloading but that is how it is. seems like other teams are willing to spend money....sucks that our owner is in windfall profit mode.

plain and simple. if you want the player, you have to pay him. we want the player we just dont want to pay him.

current scoreboard = 3 starters lost, no starters gained

No starters lost until they sign with another team.

Second Honeymoon
03-05-2010, 11:59 AM
No starters lost until they sign with another team.

ok mr. technicality. are you saying that Dunta, Walter, and Pitts won't be signed by another team? cmon now.

expect Walter and Dunta to be done today and Pitts sometime in the next week or so. there is an outside chance that Pitts could be re-signed by the Texans but its not looking likely based on Pitts' actions and words and the franchise's currently perceived lack of interest.

infantrycak
03-05-2010, 12:11 PM
that takes cash up front and not chicken feed. mcnair won't do this because its too cost prohibitive and can be risky if the player is injured and/or ineffective. any owner using the cap as an excuse are lying to your face. there are risks in frontloading but that is how it is. seems like other teams are willing to spend money....sucks that our owner is in windfall profit mode.

plain and simple. if you want the player, you have to pay him. we want the player we just dont want to pay him.

You're just spewing now. It doesn't cost any more to call it a roster bonus instead of a signing bonus. The name and the accounting change not the check handed to the player. For example McNair handed Smith a $12.5 mil check when he signed up last year.

J_R
03-05-2010, 12:12 PM
ok mr. technicality. are you saying that Dunta, Walter, and Pitts won't be signed by another team? cmon now.

expect Walter and Dunta to be done today and Pitts sometime in the next week or so. there is an outside chance that Pitts could be re-signed by the Texans but its not looking likely based on Pitts' actions and words and the franchise's currently perceived lack of interest.

Rick Smith said you can't keep everyone. I guess this is what he means? Half kidding there but..yeah certainly not looking good early.

eriadoc
03-05-2010, 12:13 PM
OK, so it's been reported that he's talked with the Ravens and the Bengals, I believe, maybe others. Have the Texans spoken with him? Has he received an offer from the Texans?

J_R
03-05-2010, 12:17 PM
OK, so it's been reported that he's talked with the Ravens and the Bengals, I believe, maybe others. Have the Texans spoken with him? Has he received an offer from the Texans?

I asked the same thing earlier and am wondering the same. I'm a little surprised there is talk of him leaving to sign with other teams, yet NO talk of him re-signing here? Only thing we've or rather I've heard from the Texans side is "we want him back".

eriadoc
03-05-2010, 12:21 PM
I can understand the team picking and choosing their battles,and you can't always keep everyone. But as a fan, I'm not seeing them even putting up a fight in any of these battles. So far as I can tell, they aren't even trying to keep their own guys, much less go after complementary pieces.

Did they re-hire Casserly or something?

Kaiser Toro
03-05-2010, 12:30 PM
As long as we get something of value for KW I will be happy. He had a nice year in 2008 as a WR2, outside of that I lose no sleep with him moving on, win win for all parties IMO.

eriadoc
03-05-2010, 12:30 PM
As long as we get something of value for KW I will be happy. He had a nice year in 2008 as a WR2, outside of that I lose no sleep with him moving on, win win for all parties IMO.

How are we going to get anything for him? He's an unrestricted free agent. We just let him walk. We get nothing back, as far as I know.

TexanBacker93
03-05-2010, 12:35 PM
if he ends up signing a $35 million dollar deal, then he is worth the money. Market dictates your salary, not solely your play. You can think he is only worth $25 million but if someone else pays him more that doesn't mean he isn't worth it, that just means you weren't willing to pony up the money.


Go Texans?

Market dictates salary to a point. Just because someone gets a deal doesn't mean he is worth it. NFL history is littered with players getting big contracts and then not living up to it. I agree that you have to be willing to pony up, but a team must be realistic. This is the first time in the franchise history where the Texans have free agents that other teams might want to sign. I'm talking about starting caliber players of course. Teams lose players every year. The Steelers, the Pats, the Chargers, the Colts have all let starters go and replaced them and continued to win. I'm not suggesting we're there with those teams yet, but we have more depth and talent than ever before. None of the UFAs that we have are so important to the team that they can't be replaced.

Kaiser Toro
03-05-2010, 12:39 PM
How are we going to get anything for him? He's an unrestricted free agent. We just let him walk. We get nothing back, as far as I know.

Total brain fart on my part. However, I still do not see the roof on fire with his possible departure.

Runner
03-05-2010, 12:43 PM
Did they re-hire Casserly or something?

I've always thought the confidence in Smith as a "great" GM was based more on his being an employee of the Texans than on his performance here. Sure he's improved the roster, but that isn't that surprising given where he started. His job is now becoming more difficult and complex since he has to try to maintain and improve a good roster. He needs to show he can reach the next level as much as the rest of the team.

I think for most good moves he's made there have been offsetting bad ones. As far as I'm concerned he's the GM for a team that has been average or underperforming since he's put his stamp on it.

I think average/underperforming is the mark of the whole team, not just the players. Front office, coaching, player roster - no group stands out to me.

eriadoc
03-05-2010, 12:44 PM
Total brain fart on my part. However, I still do not see the roof on fire with his possible departure.

I agree. I can rationalize any one of these moves so far. In sum total, I'm having a hard time rationalizing it. Whether they keep Walter or not, the team will probably be OK, but I can't fathom why they aren't even showing any real interest. If nothing else, make it more expensive for teams in our conference to lure him away.

The little signings make a big difference in the end.

infantrycak
03-05-2010, 12:49 PM
How are we going to get anything for him? He's an unrestricted free agent. We just let him walk. We get nothing back, as far as I know.

Depending on what other departures and signings there are they might get a compensatory pick. But that would be in 2011.

J_R
03-05-2010, 02:10 PM
McClain_on_NFL Walter should do better than Nate Burleson's five-year, $25 million deal from the Lions.

McClain_on_NFL Walter, who left Cincinnati for Houston as a third-year restricted free agent, doesn't want to leave the Texans but wants the best deal.

McClain_on_NFL The Texans have been working real hard to keep Kevin Walter. Rick Smith started talking to his agent last week and continues to do so.

Texan_Bill
03-05-2010, 02:12 PM
Per Rotoworld (http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/home_NFL.aspx)

Kevin Walter-WR-Texans Mar. 5 - 3:01 pm et

The Texans have reportedly been working "real hard" to keep free agent WR Kevin Walter.
GM Rick Smith has been talking to Walter's agent since last week. Though he's coming off a disappointing season in Houston, the reported interest in Walker has the Texans' second-guessing their decision to let him go free. We'll call it the "Darren Sproles effect."

Cjeremy635
03-05-2010, 02:17 PM
Per Rotoworld (http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/home_NFL.aspx)

They are going to regret letting him test the FA waters. I think we could have had him cheaper by offering him a fair/to a little high contract, instead of getting into a bidding war with other teams. I'd be very surprised if we are able to keep him at this stage of the game.

HOU-TEX
03-05-2010, 02:19 PM
McClain_on_NFL Walter should do better than Nate Burleson's five-year, $25 million deal from the Lions.

McClain_on_NFL Walter, who left Cincinnati for Houston as a third-year restricted free agent, doesn't want to leave the Texans but wants the best deal.

McClain_on_NFL The Texans have been working real hard to keep Kevin Walter. Rick Smith started talking to his agent last week and continues to do so.

Per Rotoworld (http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/home_NFL.aspx)

Y'all have to consider the source. The Gobbler is coming to his own conclusions. I truly doubt Smith is keeping Gobbler in the loop.

Texan_Bill
03-05-2010, 02:20 PM
They are going to regret letting him test the FA waters. I think we could have had him cheaper by offering him a fair/to a little high contract, instead of getting into a bidding war with other teams. I'd be very surprised if we are able to keep him at this stage of the game.

Yup!! Agreed, we shouldn't have let it get to this point.

Texan_Bill
03-05-2010, 02:20 PM
Y'all have to consider the source. The Gobbler is coming to his own conclusions. I truly doubt Smith is keeping Gobbler in the loop.

Maybe the agent leaked a little sumtin, sumtin.

HOU-TEX
03-05-2010, 02:26 PM
Maybe the agent leaked a little sumtin, sumtin.

That very well could be true, but are we to believe the Gobbler? I'm not until he comes up with a source. Otherwise, his opinion ain't no better than any of ours.

For all we know, K-dub might have a verbal agreement with Smith that will allow us a chance to match. Doubtful, but just as viable as what comes from Gobbler

beerlover
03-05-2010, 02:27 PM
Texans are leaking like a seive. at least Gary & Rick got theirs :money:

Texan_Bill
03-05-2010, 02:27 PM
That very well could be true, but are we to believe the Gobbler? I'm not until he comes up with a source. Otherwise, his opinion ain't no better than any of ours.

For all we know, K-dub might have a verbal agreement with Smith that will allow us a chance to match. Doubtful, but just as viable as what comes from Gobbler

I hear you. Maybe I was merely trying to stoke the fire. I.E. stir up the hornets nest.

:stirpot:

Thorn
03-05-2010, 02:29 PM
I think it's a little early to panic.

HOU-TEX
03-05-2010, 02:31 PM
I hear you. Maybe I was merely trying to stoke the fire. I.E. stir up the hornets nest.

:stirpot:

Yeah, it ain't going to take much to get a few knee-jerkin today

valleytexfan
03-05-2010, 02:33 PM
Per Rotoworld (http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/home_NFL.aspx)

Kevin Walter-WR-Texans Mar. 5 - 3:01 pm et

The Texans have reportedly been working "real hard" to keep free agent WR Kevin Walter.
GM Rick Smith has been talking to Walter's agent since last week. Though he's coming off a disappointing season in Houston, the reported interest in Walker has the Texans' second-guessing their decision to let him go free. We'll call it the "Darren Sproles effect."

They can have WALKER. We'll keep WALTER ;)

eriadoc
03-05-2010, 03:20 PM
Kevin Walter-WR-Texans Mar. 5 - 3:01 pm et

The Texans have reportedly been working "real hard" to keep free agent WR Kevin Walter.
GM Rick Smith has been talking to Walter's agent since last week. Though he's coming off a disappointing season in Houston, the reported interest in Walker has the Texans' second-guessing their decision to let him go free. We'll call it the "Darren Sproles effect."


At least the Chargers were smart enough to float the idea out there ahead of time and then gauge the interest, thus giving them the option of tendering him at the last minute. Rick Smith just gets caught with his pants down. Oh well, at least it isn't anyone really high end, like Demeco.

J_R
03-05-2010, 03:31 PM
Ravens may be close to acquiring Boldin. Obviously they were targeting Walter, so that may be good news on our front? Though, others teams still out there such as Cincy

Jackie Chiles
03-05-2010, 03:33 PM
At least the Chargers were smart enough to float the idea out there ahead of time and then gauge the interest, thus giving them the option of tendering him at the last minute. Rick Smith just gets caught with his pants down. Oh well, at least it isn't anyone really high end, like Demeco.

Tendering him was never an option. His situation has nothing in common with Sproles.

The Pencil Neck
03-05-2010, 03:50 PM
I think it's a little early to panic.

How about now?

eriadoc
03-05-2010, 03:52 PM
Tendering him was never an option. His situation has nothing in common with Sproles.

No, not tendering, you're right. But gauging interest and then offering him a competitive contract before he hit FA might have been a good idea. Again, it's just KW - no biggie in and of itself.

JB
03-05-2010, 03:56 PM
No, not tendering, you're right. But gauging interest and then offering him a competitive contract before he hit FA might have been a good idea. Again, it's just KW - no biggie in and of itself.

How do you gauge interest before free agency starts without tampering or collusion?

Texan_Bill
03-05-2010, 04:01 PM
How do you gauge interest before free agency starts without tampering or collusion?

Bastage! You beat me to it.

Big Lou
03-05-2010, 05:18 PM
Baltimore is going after Boldin!!!!


Damn dirty birds keep your talons off our #2!!!!


Rick Smith, get KW signed for goodness sake. Why didn't we transition tag him or something.... (Could we have even done that, I don't know how that one works! Think I'll Wikipedia it.)

eriadoc
03-05-2010, 05:21 PM
How do you gauge interest before free agency starts without tampering or collusion?

The same way SD did it.

J_R
03-05-2010, 05:24 PM
Boldin trade official. I assume that takes them out of the running for Walter.

Brisco_County
03-05-2010, 05:25 PM
Hell yeah, Ravens got Boldin.

Who else is in the hunt for Walter?

Texan_Bill
03-05-2010, 05:29 PM
Hell yeah, Ravens got Boldin.

Who else is in the hunt for Walter?

I think I read Cincy?? Which is kinda funny considering that's where we picked him up from.

Jackie Chiles
03-05-2010, 05:32 PM
Hell yeah, Ravens got Boldin.

Who else is in the hunt for Walter?

Definitely helps our chances of retaining Walter but ugh, I am not so keen on seeing Boldin again this year.

Brisco_County
03-05-2010, 07:58 PM
According to Adam Schefter's twitter page, Walter has re-signed with Houston.

Hoss
03-05-2010, 08:03 PM
ugh, I am not so keen on seeing Boldin again this year.

:brickwall:

Houston_Fanatic
03-05-2010, 08:14 PM
According to Adam Schefter's twitter page, Walter has re-signed with Houston.

:hurrah:


he's usually right.

RagingBull
03-05-2010, 08:46 PM
"UPDATE: Aaron Wilson of NFP reports Walter will get $21 million over five years."

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/05/kevin-walter-stays-with-texans/

eriadoc
03-05-2010, 09:24 PM
Kudos to the Texans!! They got a deal done that is much more reasonable than the Burleson one, and most importantly, kept a key player.

If you're going to build slowly, you have to keep your guys.

JB
03-05-2010, 09:26 PM
The same way SD did it.

Sproles was a RFA! No similarity at all. Texans could not tender Walter.

Cjeremy635
03-06-2010, 12:39 AM
Just got home and saw that he was resigned. That's great news! I think this definately keeps us from having to waste a high pick on a receiver and will alllow us to not create another need. We have a solid group of receivers with Walter as a key piece puzzle. Good job Smith in getting KW back.....now resign Ryans, Daniels, and Pollard and I'll be one happy camper.

For the record, I didn't care if we picked up any FA from another team, I just didn't want to lose some of our key players.

Texan_Bill
03-06-2010, 12:51 AM
Just got home and saw that he was resigned. That's great news! I think this definately keeps us from having to waste a high pick on a receiver and will alllow us to not create another need. We have a solid group of receivers with Walter as a key piece puzzle. Good job Smith in getting KW back.....now resign Ryans, Daniels, and Pollard and I'll be one happy camper.

For the record, I didn't care if we picked up any FA from another team, I just didn't want to lose some of our key players.

I reckon you and the wife should really move closer to the city!!! :hides:

GNTLEWOLF
03-06-2010, 12:56 AM
Just got home and saw that he was resigned. That's great news! I think this definately keeps us from having to waste a high pick on a receiver and will alllow us to not create another need. We have a solid group of receivers with Walter as a key piece puzzle. Good job Smith in getting KW back.....now resign Ryans, Daniels, and Pollard and I'll be one happy camper.

For the record, I didn't care if we picked up any FA from another team, I just didn't want to lose some of our key players.

That is pretty much how I feel as well. After all the press saying that the Texans were not planning on being big players in FA and after the team track record over the years, I was just hoping to lock up the talent we have here.

Cjeremy635
03-06-2010, 01:09 AM
I reckon you and the wife should really move closer to the city!!! :hides:

lol.....not a chance! :foottap: We were at her parents house visiting, not a night on the town.

It's a possibility tomorrow night though, our daughter is spending the night with one of her friends so we may actually be able to get out for a change.

Texan_Bill
03-06-2010, 01:22 AM
lol.....not a chance! :foottap: We were at her parents house visiting, not a night on the town.

It's a possibility tomorrow night though, our daughter is spending the night with one of her friends so we may actually be able to get out for a change.

Right on my brother...... Come visit me at a place on Westheimer, near Chimney Rock. :D

False Start
03-07-2010, 05:02 PM
This is a good thing, I'm glad we signed him back.

http://assets.houstontexans.com/assets/top_stories/4919.jpg

:jam: :cool: