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infantrycak
03-10-2005, 10:17 AM
I think we released him because we want to redo our LBs..

You're a little ahead of the game here--he hasn't been released yet.

Something else for people to keep in mind--just because Sharper says he was willing to restructure doesn't mean his demands were reasonable. Sure he might have done something to reduce his cap for a year or two but he may have been demanding a longer time period for the contract than the Texans were interested in or a really big signing bonus. Sharper may think a 6 year deal with a $12 mil signing bonus and league minimum in the 1st year is reasonable because his cap hit would go down to $2.7 this year but the Texans may not think he has 6 years left in him and if the contract doesn't have a long term you can't pro-rate out a large bonus.

Marcus
03-10-2005, 10:17 AM
From the Point to Ponder department:

The fact that none of the 31 other teams are beating on Casserly's door seeking a trade for Sharper ought to be an eye opener for some.

infantrycak
03-10-2005, 10:19 AM
How much was Foreman's signing bonus? Doesn't he still have 3 years left (including 2005)?

Sharper's dead money for the last year of his contract would be $1.375 mil. Foreman's dead money for the last three years of his contract would be $1.32 mil.

Honoring Earl 34
03-10-2005, 10:24 AM
:thumbup I believe the Texans are building for the long haul . Why not get younger in the middle now as apposed to a couple of years from now . I know he's the best defensive player on a team thats 3 yrs old but you can't say our future is Sharper .

FILO_girl
03-10-2005, 10:32 AM
I am so irked at all this.
Jamie was one of FEW Texans players who were consistant. He came to play each game at 100%, something the rest of the team can't say. He should continue to suit up as a Texan and retire here. I need to contact Casserly, how do I do this? I am serious!!!!!!!!! :shocked

I find it quite refreshing to hear that some players (not the mouthy ones, but the respectful ones) make comments about how they are being coached and managed. Just goes to show that they are as in tune with it as we (the fans) are. If a good vet player like Jamie makes a comment and is known to be a great guy, kind of makes you stand back and think about what he says more. Is he seeing what we see? Is he saying what we are saying? He gets it in the tush because he is employed by them and is in the spotlight. We get ignored as the uneducated ignorant masses. Guess there is no such thing as constructive criticism in the NFL. It is all about the Benjamins and keeping Jamie is that way too, if you look at it in a WINNING SEASON sort of light. Putting the young talent out there with no mentor is not too smart IMO.
.02 spent /rant

Honoring Earl 34
03-10-2005, 10:44 AM
:hmmm: The Texans did not have the best defense last year . If Sharper was the leader he did'nt lead to well . I don't think Sharpers rants made a bit of difference . He did'nt play that great . The Texans need to get younger on the front seven ,why noy start now . If the Texans are 7-9 again fans are going to look at Capers and Sharper will be long gone . My gut feeling is the Texans will be at least as good as they were last year on defense .

bckey
03-10-2005, 10:44 AM
:thumbup I believe the Texans are building for the long haul . Why not get younger in the middle now as apposed to a couple of years from now . I know he's the best defensive player on a team thats 3 yrs old but you can't say our future is Sharper .

You can't say it is Payne either but we resigned him.

Honoring Earl 34
03-10-2005, 10:46 AM
:hmmm: What is the alternative to Payne ? Don't say no gain .

bckey
03-10-2005, 10:50 AM
From the Point to Ponder department:

The fact that none of the 31 other teams are beating on Casserly's door seeking a trade for Sharper ought to be an eye opener for some.

They may be waiting to pick him up after he is cut so it doesn't cost them any draft picks. The Texans probably want too high of a draft pick in return and every team in the league knows that we are going to release him if he can't find a trade. Sharper will play this year.

Lucky
03-10-2005, 10:54 AM
I am so irked at all this...I need to contact Casserly, how do I do this? I am serious!!!!!!!!!
9 exclamation points? I can see that you're serious!

Address
The Houston Texans
Two Reliant Park
Houston, TX 77054

Telephone (832) 667-2000

email fanfeedback@houstontexans.com

Don't dismiss what effect a groundswell of fan feedback can have on the Texan organization. Good luck with that.

Honoring Earl 34
03-10-2005, 10:55 AM
:woot It did'nt take long for Minnasota to dump Moss . Whats up with that .

JustBonee
03-10-2005, 10:56 AM
I bet that phone will be ringing off the wall!


.. My gut feeling is the Texans will be at least as good as they were last year on defense .
I would hope that they would be looking to improve, not stay status quo. Maybe there is a "method to the madness" of the coaching staff, but at the moment they are only leaving Jamie Sharper fans MAD!

TheOgre
03-10-2005, 10:58 AM
Lets assume for a second that we cannot trade Sharper for whatever reason(s). If we cut him, we get $6 million to spend elsewhere. If we don't cut him, we spend $6 million for a guy that will almost certainly leave after the season anyways.

TexanAggie
03-10-2005, 11:01 AM
I was wondering why the
Texans signed the LB from Miami. I thought maybe foreman would hit the dirt but Sharper that is a terrible mistake, he has way too much football in him..

Bye bye Foreman but Jamie WOW talk about a hit in the gut.......


I dont see the Texans getting anybody good for Jamie unless they are trying to change his contract around, damn i sure hope so. Jamie has been a mainstay in the defense since day 1 and has been a overall stud

infantrycak
03-10-2005, 11:03 AM
Lets assume for a second that we cannot trade Sharper for whatever reason(s). If we cut him, we get $6 million to spend elsewhere. If we don't cut him, we spend $6 million for a guy that will almost certainly leave after the season anyways.

You have to deduct the dead money to get the cap space the team saves so the Texans would have about $4.75 extra cap space if they release Sharper. Releasing Foreman gives about $200k in cap space but also clears $2.2 and $3.1 off in later years.

Errant Hothy
03-10-2005, 11:11 AM
From earlier this morning:

Bengals | Interested in Sharper? - from www.KFFL.com
Thu, 10 Mar 2005 07:20:55 -0800

ESPN.com's John Clayton reports the Cincinnati Bengals are interested in possibly trading with the Houston Texans for LB Jamie Sharper, who will likely cost a middle round draft choice.

So is a fourth(hopefully a third) enough for Sharper; and is it probaly safe to say Foreman will just be cut? For me it is, I just don't get why we arn't resturcting Jaime's contract. Did something sever go on behind closed doors, or is this all a PR game.

bckey
03-10-2005, 11:11 AM
:hmmm: What is the alternative to Payne ? Don't say no gain .

Rocky Bernard? Marques Douglas? About as well known as Greenwood. Actually I believe Pat Williams would have been a good short term alternative until we bring a draft pick in (this year I hope) to fill the spot. He is older but we are taking a big risk with Payne because of his past injury problems. That is most likely what we will do with Payne if he can stay healthy. Have him bring along whatever dl we draft kind of like Glenn did with Dunte last year.

JustBonee
03-10-2005, 11:17 AM
However this all plays out .. I say in the end, it's the biggest black eye on the Texans since the Boselli disaster. :twocents:

Honoring Earl 34
03-10-2005, 11:19 AM
:woot If BJ Symmons came in and showed more than Carr I'd say trade Carr . Carr is the face of the franchise but thats only for today . Sharper is 30 and gets paid alot of money so don't be scared of change .

Vinny
03-10-2005, 11:20 AM
I don't see how this is a black eye, and Boselli was already injured so if you consider that a disaster you were expecting way too much. Cap casualties for older players are common.

UberDork
03-10-2005, 11:21 AM
Seems to me the Texans' brain trust is looking for more out of their LBs. I don't think Sharper and Foreman are going to come out of nowhere and get better next year. We can't stay idle. We may hurt a little by the change next year, but I think change has to come...I just hope this is the right time.

I am wondering if organizations who want Sharper may be inclined to offer a higher draft pick if they know he would be released. If they really want him seems their odds of getting him drop a lot if he were released being that he can go where he wants then...just a thought though.

DoCt3rJ
03-10-2005, 11:27 AM
So basically the front 2 runners in trading for Sharper are Seattle and Bengals, which gives the edge to the Bengals since it's his former coach.

Honoring Earl 34
03-10-2005, 11:28 AM
:woot Look we can get Greenwood to grow dreadlocks OK . The Texans have not had enough success top get a major black eye . When you start winning you really have to make tough decisions . Your players are gonna want to be paid .

bckey
03-10-2005, 11:36 AM
I don't see how this is a black eye, and Boselli was already injured so if you consider that a disaster you were expecting way too much. Cap casualties for older players are common.

I think it is the fact that Sharper has been with us from the start and has played his butt off. He hasn't been injured and isn't rehabbing either. He is still a great player. I understand that this move is all about $ but it really has a sour taste to it right now. This reminds me of the Lawyer Milloy move in New England except they brought in a pro bowler to replace him named Rodney Harrison. Greenwood may prove to be that kind of replacement but that is just it, he will have to come in and prove it. Harrison was already proven.

Honoring Earl 34
03-10-2005, 11:40 AM
:shocked Would ya'll trade Sharper for Donnie Edwards ?

Vinny
03-10-2005, 11:40 AM
Apparently when the Texans reviewed the game tape they weren't real happy. We have no cap problems and if they don't think Sharper is worth nearly $7 million dollars this is the exact moment to do this. You don't wait till next year and just let him walk. Its my gut feeling that this is going to be some sort of draft day trade. I've posted in the past (speculation) that we would rebuild our linebackers in year 4.

Errant Hothy
03-10-2005, 11:44 AM
As much as I like him Jaime Sharper is on the decline, aging and overpaid (which he will be next year, with his current contract); and no taking measures to either fix the contract or the position leads to the kind of cap hell that Tennesse, the Niners and soon to be the Colts are in. There are times when it is better to make teh tough choice and cut the palyer and move on, look at how the Steelers and the Pats have re-vamped their LB corps, and as much as we may want him to stay this is that time for Sharper. Also I can't seem to shake teh feeling that either Sharpers comments at the end of the season, or something else, is also factoring into this decision.

This is a decision that sucks form all side; the player, the coach, the GM, the owner and the fans.

edo783
03-10-2005, 11:48 AM
IMO, this makes sense after I thought a bit about it. He is 30 years old, cost 6 mill, wont be here after the 05 season unless a sever restructure happens and we wouldn't want to sign him for a 4-5 year contract like I am sure he would want. Could he play and be a good contributer this year....of course, but it would be better to move on now, bring in a younger replacement and get them a year in the system. That way your looking at a solid play off run in the 06 season with a young, but experienced LB core. Make sense, just don't like seeing Jamie go, but that's football.

Blake
03-10-2005, 11:49 AM
"All's fair in love, war and free agency."

Texans32
03-10-2005, 11:57 AM
what about trading him for a younger ILB in stead of a draft pick. that way you get someone who can come in and contribute right off the bat instead of waiting for them to develop. maybe we could trade him and a 4th rounder to the jets for jonathan vilma, the 2nd year linebacker out of miami

bckey
03-10-2005, 12:00 PM
As much as I like him Jaime Sharper is on the decline, aging and overpaid (which he will be next year, with his current contract); and no taking measures to either fix the contract or the position leads to the kind of cap hell that Tennesse, the Niners and soon to be the Colts are in. There are times when it is better to make teh tough choice and cut the palyer and move on, look at how the Steelers and the Pats have re-vamped their LB corps, and as much as we may want him to stay this is that time for Sharper. Also I can't seem to shake teh feeling that either Sharpers comments at the end of the season, or something else, is also factoring into this decision.

This is a decision that sucks form all side; the player, the coach, the GM, the owner and the fans.

I agree Sharper is overpaid but when I look at the Texans roster I see names like Walker, Wong, McKinney, Wiegert, Coleman, Foreman, Glenn, Payne, Brown and I see some big salaries that we aren't always getting a good return on. Sharper is just in the bad position of being in the last year of his contract at a critical time for the Texans $ wise.

Errant Hothy
03-10-2005, 12:01 PM
Becasue the Jets front office wouldn't trade away a future Pro-bowler for even our first round pick. Much less an aging over-paid LB, and a fourth round pick.

JustBonee
03-10-2005, 12:01 PM
I don't see how this is a black eye, and Boselli was already injured so if you consider that a disaster you were expecting way too much. Cap casualties for older players are common.

Just my opinion about Jamie Sharper, and I feel very strong about it. As for Boselli, yes he was injured BUT they had brought him in, expecting him to play at some point. So it was a disaster.
My point was .. totally different story lines .. but equally bad endings.


I think it is the fact that Sharper has been with us from the start and has played his butt off. He hasn't been injured and isn't rehabbing either. He is still a great player. I understand that this move is all about $ but it really has a sour taste to it right now. This reminds me of the Lawyer Milloy move in New England except they brought in a pro bowler to replace him named Rodney Harrison. Greenwood may prove to be that kind of replacement but that is just it, he will have to come in and prove it. Harrison was already proven.

Sour taste ..yes. The bottom line to me is this.. it just is not going down very well right now, being the way it is going down.

Texans32
03-10-2005, 12:02 PM
then how about we go out and sign ed hartwell and then either trade sharper on keep him on 'till next year

bckey
03-10-2005, 12:25 PM
Sour taste ..yes. The bottom line to me is this.. it just is not going down very well right now, being the way it is going down.


I agree with you Sassy.

TexanBacker93
03-10-2005, 12:27 PM
Just my opinion about Jamie Sharper, and I feel very strong about it. As for Boselli, yes he was injured BUT they had brought him in, expecting him to play at some point. So it was a disaster.
My point was .. totally different story lines .. but equally bad endings.




Sour taste ..yes. The bottom line to me is this.. it just is not going down very well right now, being the way it is going down.

I think the Texans expected him (Boselli) to play, but I would be very shocked if they weren't thinking that it was always a possibility that he couldn't play. It was a gamble that was worth it in my book.

I have trouble deciding where I stand on the Sharper issue. I hear that he is willing to renegotiate and I hear that he refuses to do so. I hear that he wants out of Houston and I hear that he figures he would stay here for his whole career. Teams that hold on to players beyond their usefulness just because they are big name players end up in cap hell. I don't think Sharper is there yet, but in a 3-4 defense there are probably 20 LBs in the league that could do what Sharper does at a much lesser cost.

I would be surprised if he is released outright. If the Texans can't trade him he would still be better on the roster than not, unless they have other plans already or feel that Babin, Peek, Wong, Greenwood would be as good as Babin, Wong, Greenwood, and Sharper. They cost less which would give us the money to find that #2 receiver or an upgrade on the DLine.

Vinny
03-10-2005, 12:32 PM
Just my opinion about Jamie Sharper, and I feel very strong about it. As for Boselli, yes he was injured BUT they had brought him in, expecting him to play at some point. So it was a disaster.You call it a disaster, I'll call it taking a chance on a player who was the best at his position when we already knew he may not play. The only think we lost was Bob McNairs money. It's not like it cost us another player.
Sour taste ..yes. The bottom line to me is this.. it just is not going down very well right now, being the way it is going down. It's going down fine by me. I'm glad we are making a move to revamp the linebackers. They have been over hyped and over-rated from the start here and our defense has been 'bad' the last two years. Our linebacker play was not exceptional in the middle. It was average.

TexanBacker93
03-10-2005, 12:35 PM
You know, deep down...you gotta feel for these guys.

Things like this seperate this "game" from a "business".

Good luck to both of them...its gonna be extremely strange not seeing 55 with the dread-locks not on the field.


Another team was faced with a similar decision with a well-loved #55 a couple of years ago. You think Sharper is the face of the defense? How about the Chargers and Seau? That guy was the face of the team for 13 years. It was a tough first year, but it was the right move in the long term and they won a division and got to the playoffs. Granted, it was in the AFC West, but still.

TheTim5125
03-10-2005, 12:36 PM
he said he would restructure i say we keep him

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
03-10-2005, 12:37 PM
From John Clayton:

March 9, 2005
Sharper drawing interest
There seems to be trade interest in Texans inside linebacker Jamie Sharper. The Bengals and Seahawks are among the teams most interested. It will cost a middle round choice -- possibly a fourth -- to get Sharper, who is being replaced by Morlon Greenwood.

TexanAddict
03-10-2005, 12:57 PM
While I do believe some change in the linebacker corps is necessary, I believe the complete overhaul approach is probably not the best way go about it. We already know that Grenwood will be playing inside next season, his first in the 3-4. If Sharper leaves and Wong moves inside, then we have another player with only limited experience playing inside in the 3-4. If we draft a replacement then there will be even less experience. If Wong does move inside, that means a new player will be playing outside, possibly Peek, who has very little starter and every down experience. That would leave Babin, who was a rookie last year, as the only player to stay put. I personally think so much instability cannot be the best way to address our LB issues. Sorry if that's a little long winded.

UberDork
03-10-2005, 12:59 PM
I don't see how Sharper saying he would restructure his contract should mean anything. For all we know, he wants even more money and/or a 4-5 year deal...neither of those options is going to be good for the Texans because we must get better at LB. So even if he took a little less money and wanted a long term deal...I don't know if it would be good for the Texans. We know what he can do. I don't think we will see him step his play up another notch from what he has averaged over the last three years, and other than the OLBs making sacks, Sharper is supposed to be the big play LB right? Isn't the mac LB supposed to be the headhunter or something along those lines. He doesn't quite fit that bill to me. It is starting to look like now is the time to move on. Feelings may be hurt but that is a part of life. Our LBs must get better...not stay the same.

Honoring Earl 34
03-10-2005, 01:06 PM
:woot Sharper for Ricky Williams . Vinny do you remember when the Oilers were phasing out Brazile and Bingham ? People were going crazy because they from the Bum era . Sharper was not as good as Brazile but apparently he's more popular .

Vinny
03-10-2005, 01:07 PM
I was a big Dr Doom fan. He was LT before LT was LT. I still think he should have more consideration for the Hall of Fame. He was one of the first 240-250 stand up edge rushing linebackers with great speed.

Htown34s
03-10-2005, 01:12 PM
Robert Brazile was my favorite guy on D in the 70's. He definately deserves more attention as one of the best ever!

That being said, I was hoping for at least a 3rd rounder. But if its between a 4th rounder and just cutting him...

Honoring Earl 34
03-10-2005, 01:19 PM
:thumbup I read where Brazile has the record for stuffs in a season . In 79 he had 41 for losses of 63 yds. He also was a 7 time pro bowler in 10 seasons . John McClain needs to start pumping him up for the Hall of Fame .

bckey
03-10-2005, 01:27 PM
You call it a disaster, I'll call it taking a chance on a player who was the best at his position when we already knew he may not play. The only think we lost was Bob McNairs money.


It is sad that Boselli kept the money in my opinion.

Errant Hothy
03-10-2005, 01:32 PM
It is sad that Boselli kept the money in my opinion.

Would you have given it up?

He signed a contract. Also he restructured it to help the team. I honeslty can't seem to get why so many people make Boselli out to be a bad guy in all of this.

Vinny
03-10-2005, 01:32 PM
He was going to take it from the Jags. Nobody forced us to take the risk. I have a hard time blaming Tony B. on that one.

bckey
03-10-2005, 01:33 PM
I'm glad we are making a move to revamp the linebackers. They have been over hyped and over-rated from the start here and our defense has been 'bad' the last two years. Our linebacker play was not exceptional in the middle. It was average.

How about the outside? Surely you aren't implying that Sharper was the weakest link of the 4 starters.

michaelm
03-10-2005, 01:35 PM
he said he would restructure i say we keep him

It almost surely isn't that simple.
His idea of restructuring may be way out of line with his actual value to the team. He may be looking for a lot longer contract than the team thinks reasonable and may also want guaranteed money which is a step in the direction of cap hell...

Vinny
03-10-2005, 01:38 PM
How about the outside? Surely you aren't implying that Sharper was the weakest link of the 4 starters.I don't know how you figure I am implying that. Right now the only two sure starters are Babin and Greenwood. Everything else is up in the air. I've already stated before this trade was announced that I thought Sharper's play wasn't as good as his previous years and he may be in decline. They may feel he is not worth what he is asking and just want to get younger and faster at this position. It's not like our linebackers have made game changing plays very often here in the first three years. Seems to me the Texans feel that this group has gotten as good as it is going to get and they may not feel like that is good enough.

michaelm
03-10-2005, 01:38 PM
I personally think so much instability cannot be the best way to address our LB issues.

I mostly agree with you, but Capers' 3-4 has always been about speed and athleticism, two things that are largely adressed with this kind of re-vamp of the LBs.

WildBlackBear32
03-10-2005, 01:41 PM
:woot If BJ Symmons came in and showed more than Carr I'd say trade Carr . Carr is the face of the franchise but thats only for today.

Ragone has a far better chance at doing that than Symens. Symens was the product of a system that produces 4k passers every year with the Dink'N'Dunk style at TT.

DOCTOR24
03-10-2005, 01:46 PM
.... Right now the only two sure starters are Babin and Greenwood. Everything else is up in the air.....

Vinny, you don't consider Wong a sure starter?

bckey
03-10-2005, 01:52 PM
I don't know how you figure I am implying that. Right now the only two sure starters are Babin and Greenwood. Everything else is up in the air. I've already stated before this trade was announced that I thought Sharper's play wasn't as good as his previous years and he may be in decline. They may feel he is not worth what he is asking and just want to get younger and faster at this position. It's not like our linebackers have made game changing plays very often here in the first three years. Seems to me the Texans feel that this group has gotten as good as it is going to get and they may not feel like that is good enough.


I agree with most of what you are saying Vinny but I think most people felt the DL was our weakest link and hampered some of our LB play. We do need a shake up on defense though.

Vinny
03-10-2005, 02:02 PM
Vinny, you don't consider Wong a sure starter?No, I think he is a good but not above average ROLB and I think that he may not be a good fit inside. I've even seen some astute Texans observers speculate that Wong may not even be on the squad next season. Just remember that this defensive unit has never been better than average. Perhaps the Texans feel that their linebacker play is the culprit moreso than most of us do.

bckey - I think injuries played a role in their play last year and hopefully they will add a youngster and the vets all get past their nagging injuries. It’s my perception that Walker should bounce back because he has a long history of high caliber play and he had problems with some critical leg/thigh area muscles last year that robbed his explosion. Two gap linemen play at a high level deep into their careers so I am not as concerned as most of you guys. I'm more concerned that RoSmith was overrated and not as good as either Payne or Walker. Last year it took him more than half a year to start to make a few plays. Payne had a slow start and got better as he got back into playing shape and RoSmith and Payne never really had many of their best games together. If all 3 are healthy and RoSmith isn't a bust, I think our line will be fine for years as they are currently situated. That goes against the common sentiment here, but that’s what I see.

TheOgre
03-10-2005, 02:08 PM
You have to deduct the dead money to get the cap space the team saves so the Texans would have about $4.75 extra cap space if they release Sharper. Releasing Foreman gives about $200k in cap space but also clears $2.2 and $3.1 off in later years.

Okay for some reason I thought his base was around 6.5 and he had a bonus on top of that. I'm aware of how the base and bonus numbers function, but I just don't keep track of how they are broken down for individuals.

rittenhouserobz
03-10-2005, 02:08 PM
Here is an article from the Chronicle via prosports daily. Maybe some of you are interested.
I apologize if it is already posted.

Sharper and Forman article (http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/3077869)

I believe that too many people are thinking that we are not taking a step down by losing Sharper. I think we will; however, I think it is a neccessary step to progress two steps forward in the overall scheme. We need the cap space for other reasons.

TEXANS84
03-10-2005, 02:11 PM
From bengals.com:
Link to Article (http://bengals.com/press/news.asp?iCurPage=0&news_id=2792)

Reunion interests Sharper

One of Marvin Lewis’ high-profile Super Bowl defenders is interested in re-joining him in Cincinnati, but a few things have to happen first.

Linebacker Jamie Sharper, who had 20 tackles, two sacks, and two interceptions during the Ravens’ championship postseason for Lewis in 2000, is on the trading block in Houston and he has told his agent he finds playing for Lewis again intriguing.

But Tony Agnone said Wednesday it doesn’t look promising that a trade can be struck with any team.

“We’re looking into a release,” said Agnone, the Baltimore-based agent who has a good relationship with Lewis from his six seasons there as the Ravens defensive coordinator.

“It’s up to the Texans, and obviously we’d like to get Jamie on the market as quickly as possible,” Agnone said. “He loves Marvin. He’s his guy, his mentor, whatever you want to call him. Jamie would love to be able to sit down and talk with Marvin, but he can’t and we can’t. We’ve been given permission to seek a trade, but not permission to talk.”

Agnone wouldn’t comment when asked if he had approached the Bengals about a trade, but he indicated they are one of the teams leading Sharper’s list.

Sharper, who turns 31 late in the season, has never missed an NFL game in the eight years since Lewis helped draft him in the second round out of Virginia in 1997. He is one season removed from leading the NFL in tackles with 195 and in each of three seasons with the Texans he has had at least 137 tackles.

The 6-3, 240-pound Sharper, who works mainly on the inside, is an athletic ball hawk who would also help the Bengals raise themselves from No. 26 in NFL run defense. Although Houston is moving in a different direction at backer, Sharper is coming off a 137-tackle season in which he returned one of his two fumble recoveries for a touchdown. He’s also got 25 career sacks.

Agnone anticipates Sharper playing on the left, or strong side, if he ended up in Cincinnati, but also said he could play the middle because of his experience playing inside in the Texans’ 3-4 alignment.

“I think the thing he wants to do is to be able to sit down with Marvin,” Agnone said. “But that can’t happen yet and we’re hoping things move along.”

What is not clear yet is if the Bengals have been holding off to make a run like this in free agency, or if they simply don’t have the salary cap room to make such a move. There has been some speculation they may be waiting for March 12, when Sharper’s brother, safety Darren, is expected to be released by the Packers.

In a bit of a twist, the Bengals keep talking about a long-term deal with the agent for running back Rudi Johnson, a guy that just happens to be friends with the Sharpers. They grew up in Richmond, Va., not far from Johnson in Ettrick, Va.

Also Wednesday, the situation of Dolphins defensive lineman Bryan Robinson looked to be status quo, with the Bengals, Broncos and Cowboys in the picture.

TheOgre
03-10-2005, 02:12 PM
Just remember that this defensive unit has never been better than average. Perhaps the Texans feel that their linebacker play is the culprit moreso than most of us do.

Many of the fans (myself included) have thought that the LB's have underperformed as a result of poor D-line play. The fact that they have re-signed Walker and Payne, yet plan on getting rid of Sharper and Foreman, leads me to believe they think it is the other way around. We absolutely have to good to great LB's to run a 3-4.

bckey
03-10-2005, 02:25 PM
bckey - I think injuries played a role in their play last year and hopefully they will add a youngster and the vets all get past their nagging injuries. It’s my perception that Walker should bounce back because he has a long history of high caliber play and he had problems with some critical leg/thigh area muscles last year that robbed his explosion. Two gap linemen play at a high level deep into their careers so I am not as concerned as most of you guys. I'm more concerned that RoSmith was overrated and not as good as either Payne or Walker. Last year it took him more than half a year to start to make a few plays. Payne had a slow start and got better as he got back into playing shape and RoSmith and Payne never really had many of their best games together. If all 3 are healthy and RoSmith isn't a bust, I think our line will be fine for years as they are currently situated. That goes against the common sentiment here, but that’s what I see.

I hope you are right Vinny. No one really questions how good Payne is when he is 100%. I too wonder about Robaire Smith being overrated. This will be the year that makes or breaks us on the DL. Walker worries me the most because we have so much money and a long term contract invested in him. He may have just had "contract lag" last year after signing. Some players play their best in the last year of their contracts and then the worst the first year after signing it.

ThaShark316
03-10-2005, 02:51 PM
I have a question...

If we trade Sharper AND Foreman...exactly how much money do we dump (if we take no players in return)?

infantrycak
03-10-2005, 03:10 PM
I have a question...

If we trade Sharper AND Foreman...exactly how much money do we dump (if we take no players in return)?

This year's net cap savings would be about $4.95 mil. Foreman's cap hit for the years after that would have been 2.2 and 3.1 mil.

dalemurphy
03-10-2005, 03:30 PM
It's hard to identify, specifically, who the weakest links were on offense or defense. I can say, however, offensively that the interior OLine was the problem (whether it was Pitts, Mckinney, Weigert, or some combination of them)... Similarly, defensively, the weakness against the run and pass on the defense was primarily the fault of the interior 5 (Payne, Walker, Smith, Sharper, Foreman)... They were bad against the run, obviously... And, if there had been an interior pass rush, I'd say that Wong and Babin would've combined for close to 20 sacks.

All that is to say that I'm glad to see changes made. Apparently the Texans have identified weaknesses and are in the process of repair them.

Grid
03-10-2005, 03:37 PM
have a hard time beleiving that releasing sharper is a good move if we get nothing in return. Maybe im just not thinking outside the box.

The way I see it.. Sharper has been the BEST LB on our roster for the last 3 years. No he hasnt gotten any better, and he may have even gotten SLIGHTLY worse.. but he has still been the best. Releasing him and not getting anything in return just strikes me as a very poor move.

I mean.. If our WRs werent producing and we needed to start over.. would your first move be to release Andre Johnson? No.. you would hold onto your strongest talent and try to bring in some new talent. That way you at least have somewhat of a saftey net in case your new talent bombs. Instead.. we are just taking a leap and hoping everything turns out alright.

Also.. unless we plan on making a slew of signings.. I dont see why the 4.7 million or whatever that we free up by releasing sharper is that important. If im not mistaken.. even after signing our FAs and Greenwood we still have plenty of room left over to sign our draft picks.. so why do we need to release one of our best defensive players to free up cap space?

If we dont trade him and get a draft pick or something.. then the only thing that could save this situation in my mind is if we package him with some picks in order to trade up with the browns or something and grab DJ. I can see how that could be a possibility since the browns would still get a quality LB, and some extra picks. It would sweeten the deal, so to speak.

I dunno.. I trust Casserly.. and im not crying about it yet.. but I dont like the direction this appears to be going.



BTW..

Salary Cap Casualty = Samari Rolle and the other Titan cuts
Veteran being cut for god knows what reason = Sharper, Moss


Cmon Casserly.. if you can get a 3rd rounder for Drew Henson.. you better be able to get us a 3rd or 4th for Sharper.

TexanAddict
03-10-2005, 03:44 PM
Again, I hope the coaching staff is trying to fix this weakness without weakening the LB unit as a whole. The 3-4 is a complex defensive scheme to grasp and with all the anticipated position changes I wonder how long it will take for the new group to gel. I have faith in our staff, I would just love to have some indication from Capers or Casserly as to which direction they plan on taking this.

TheOgre
03-10-2005, 03:48 PM
They obviously are trying to improve the defense's speed. Robinson, Babin, and Greenwood help with that. I really think our 1st round pick is likely to be either a pass-rushing ROLB (sorry Peek) or a WR (since we don't have a #2).

TexanAddict
03-10-2005, 03:51 PM
I'm with Grid on this one. I think replacing Foreman with Greenwood could upgrade the position, but losing Sharper and getting nothing in return would make no sense unless the staff has already decided how he is going to be replaced. As someone posted earlier, players often play some of their best football in their contract year, knowing they're up for sale, so to speak.

Vinny
03-10-2005, 03:52 PM
Releasing him and not getting anything in return just strikes me as a very poor move. This is probably why you have not heard the Texans discussing this as an option. The only place you hear that is from Sharper's camp and from the fans. aj. has pointed out in the near-past that this Texans defense is getting old. 2-gap linemen have long careers and Glenn looks like the kind of guy to play long into his. We may be looking to stay a veteran unit at the line and get younger at linebacker as a two-step Super Bowl run strategy. Many people expect us to push for the playoffs this year but may not consider us Super Bowl contenders. Next year is the year we likely become one of the legit Super Bowl possible teams. This move to inject youth and speed in our linebackers may have its heart aimed at next season. I suspect the Texans are trying to incorporate Sharper into a trade that may be announced at the draft or close to the draft. It may already be in place for all we know. Pure speculation by me of course. I agree with dalemurphy in post 327 also.

TexanAddict
03-10-2005, 03:53 PM
Also, if we get nothing for him, then he might as well be released after this season. At least we would retain some stability in the LB corps.

texasguy346
03-10-2005, 05:01 PM
It's really tough to accept the fact that Sharper won't be a Texan next season, but it does make for a very interesting offseason and training camp. For all those who would love to see Peek on the field more they may jsut get their wish. He might even see time at the ILB position in training camp, although I must confess I'd rather see him outside rushing the QB. This is really leaving a lot of spots up in the air, and it will be very interesting to see what happens. I just hope having players in new positions next season won't play out as badly as having players in new positions on the OLine played out last season.

Señor Stan
03-10-2005, 07:16 PM
I just opened ESPN's home page and saw a bold text link that says Sharper cut

That would be Darren Sharper.

I need a defibrillator.

ThaShark316
03-10-2005, 07:18 PM
OWNED! :heh:

Grid
03-10-2005, 07:34 PM
well im not saying it is set in stone.. but when sharper started talking about it.. and the chronicle started talking about it.. and that jerkweed on ESPN started talking about it.. I have started to get a little worried that we wont get anything and will end up releasing him.

but if anyone can squeeze a pick out of someone, its Casserly.

Texans Pride
03-10-2005, 09:19 PM
For sentimental reasons I am sad to see this taking place, Sharper has been the cornerstone of this defense, and it will be hard to not see him out there.

However, I do believe that this move is being done to make this defense better. We started with nothing and Sharper was a major player for us that was solid and consistent. As this team grows, the changes should be upgrades. I’m sure that as hard as this change is, it is for the best. The front office is making a move that they feel will make this team better, not worse. Sharper is good, and is the face of our defense, but does that mean we don’t go after anyone better just so our face stays the same?

We were 7-9 last year; I for one don’t want to stay the same.

keyfro
03-10-2005, 09:44 PM
well it will be different and sad not to see sharper out there...i'm just sorry this whole thing is ending the way it is...and i know people say it's a business and the gm's don't care what the fans think but you know what they should...the fans are the ones who pay the tickets, buy the jerseys, and support the team...without us there is no team...that being sad i understand why moving sharper on is must...peek needs to be a starter on this defense and with greenwood signing there would be no room for peek...with sharper out that moves wong inside (even though they deny it you know it's gonna happen) and peek will take over the starting ROLB position...i think if peek can stay healthy and in capers good graces he could end the season with 10+ sacks and be the pass rusher we've lacked over the past few seasons...greenwood will provide solid pass coverage...wong will be the run stopper in the middle...and babin will continue to improve and be a strong link in our linebacking corp

back ups will probably be charlie anderson who i think can be solid rotational guy for us...deshon polk proved his worth this past season...i don't see foreman being with us anymore and i can honestly say i'm not sad to see him go...shantee orr i believe will be the second back up to the OLB'ers...as for the other inside guy i believe he will come in the draft...preferably barret ruud or lance mitchell on my side of things...but i hope sharper goes to the bengals to be re-united with marvin lewis...i have nothing but respect for jamie sharper and i wish him the best

TexanFanInCC
03-11-2005, 01:22 AM
i almost cant wait to see what happens. i always like trade talk and rumors. it keeps me interested during the offseason. i dont care what we do or what path we take, as long as the LB group is better than last yrs. i guess its a lock that foreman will be dealt or released. as for sharper, who knows. i do wanna see peek hitting the QB more....its awesome

bckey
03-11-2005, 01:58 AM
i almost cant wait to see what happens. i always like trade talk and rumors. it keeps me interested during the offseason. i dont care what we do or what path we take, as long as the LB group is better than last yrs. i guess its a lock that foreman will be dealt or released. as for sharper, who knows. i do wanna see peek hitting the QB more....its awesome

I still think our DL and OL are more of a problem than our LB's.

Negative Jesus
03-11-2005, 02:25 AM
I just opened ESPN's home page and saw a bold text link that says Sharper cut

That would be Darren Sharper.

I need a defibrillator.


I saw the same thing ............ and i felt the same way . :whew :heh:

saints63213
03-11-2005, 07:06 AM
I have heard a rumor that sharper has been traded for a 4th round pick and a player.(probably Tebucky Jones or Kenny Smith) Have you guys heard anything about this?

Thanks and good luck this year.

Vinny
03-11-2005, 09:25 AM
I've heard and seen this rumor. Where did you hear it from originally? I'm trying to find out if it started in the New Orleans media or if it is just some message board thing. Help me out if you could please. We generally wipe all ridiculous rumors around here (if you state a rumor as a fact it will get hammered) but I have seen this and have been emailed about this from a couple of people so I am going ot answer it here as so it doesn't pop up multiple times.

Vinny
03-11-2005, 09:51 AM
On the saintsreport board they said Haslett stated that he is not interested in either Sharper.

I think I found where it started....

http://whodatzone.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=3543

Texans SHarper was told to look for a trade. Apparently Sharper is not getting the Texans what they want. He is demanding to be let go. It seems the Saints, Cheifs, Broncos and Cardinals are interested. According to local radio the Saints made the best trade offer. He would have to redo his current contract to get the deal done. The Saints are giving a player and a 4th round pick for him. Sharper refused to give trade talk info out. He says his agent is in charge of that.

We will have to wait and see.

WSF

------------

Everything i'm hearing is on the radio. It seems many are reporting all kinds of things. The Saints seem to be logical to some. Many radio broadcasters seem to think a trade would leave Sharper with not much choice.

As far as who the trade is, I would expect some rookie or 2nd year player because of value. The Texans love draft picks. Could it be Henderson? The Texans are looking for another speedy WR!

I will try to find some links on this...

WSF

U4ikrob
03-11-2005, 10:00 AM
ESPN's - Clayton also has a few hits on articles about Jaime for us mentioning picks and trades with Cincy or Seattle

Sharper drawing interest
There seems to be trade interest in Texans inside linebacker Jamie Sharper. The Bengals and Seahawks are among the teams most interested. It will cost a middle round choice -- possibly a fourth -- to get Sharper, who is being replaced by Morlon Greenwood.

keyfro
03-11-2005, 10:15 AM
you know i'm wondering if sharper can control who he is traded to because there is no doubt in my mind he wants to go to the bengals to re-join marvin lewis...if he can't i don't see a problem with a trade to the saints...right now i just want this deal done so we can move on

edo783
03-11-2005, 10:44 AM
The best control he has is whether he will adjust his contract or not. If he is willing to redo his contract someone will pick him up, but if he is willing to do a reasonable contract, he would be here anyway unless he is just ticked off and wants out of Houston..

Lucky
03-11-2005, 11:15 AM
you know i'm wondering if sharper can control who he is traded to...
He can't, because he still has 1 year remaining on his contract. The problem is, how much will the Texans get in return from a team that Sharper won't extend with? It would amount to renting an unhappy Sharper for a season. The Texans don't want a unhappy Sharper, why would another team? He has to go to a team that he chooses to get any value in return.

SESupergenius
03-11-2005, 11:31 AM
Unless we off a sweet deal to Sharper he's as good as gone. So much negativity can be whiped out in a heartbeat with lucrative contract, but I feel that that is not going to happen. We are about to lose one our best defensive players so we better get something good in return. He may have spouted off at the end of the season last year, but this could be the start of a trend in the locker room. Once you start losing guys motivation to play for you it's all over. Pressure sure is mounting on this staff to succeed this year.

Marcus
03-11-2005, 03:32 PM
We are about to lose one our best defensive players so we better get something good in return.

He apparently wasn't one of the best defensive players last season, as concluded in the team meetings. And they also must have concluded that he wasn't worth the cap hit this year. Since I'm on the outside looking in, I'll have to put my faith in that they know what is going on, and I don't. idonno:

texansfan1974
03-11-2005, 03:39 PM
it was just stated on the dan patrick show that THE EDGE might be interested
in the TEXANS. how bout we sign little brother DARRIN SHARPER and trade
JAMIE to the colts for THE EDGE. at least we will still have a sharper on the
our team.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
03-11-2005, 03:40 PM
I would trade Sharper for James in a heartbeat but it seems unlikely that would happen.

SESupergenius
03-11-2005, 04:13 PM
He apparently wasn't one of the best defensive players last season,

1 season does not make or break a player. How tough do you think it will be on our defense this year when we will have 3 of our 4 lb's that were not there last year. I am big proponent on cohesion. I understand us having to upgrade our defense, but at 3 positions in our lb group is going to be tough.

TexanExile
03-11-2005, 04:30 PM
I will be sick if this happens. The reasons are obvious--they've been thoroughly posted on this thread, and elsewhere I've already repeated my disdain for the Greenwood signing that started this whole mess.

If the Texans didn't see this train wreck coming, I'm scared. And if they DID see it coming, I'm mystified, because I don't understand why this has to happen. Casserly's the expert, not me, so I'll wait to see the outcome after the draft. Signing a no-name free agent to replace a solid, top-notch LB is scary to me. But let's face it--the benefit of the doubt can only be applied to so many busted signings before he starts to lose credibility. Signing a no-name free agent to replace a solid, top-notch LB is scary to me.

Also, what's stuff like this going to do to the Texans' reputation as a place for veterans to want to be? It may indeed be Sharper's PR moves causing all the waves here, but it looks poor.

texan279
03-11-2005, 04:48 PM
LINK (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/football/215453_hawk11.html)

The Seahawks also are being mentioned as potential landing spots for two more players who are being dangled as trade bait -- New Orleans defensive end Darren Howard, the Saints' franchise player; and Houston linebacker Jamie Sharper.

The Saints and Texans have spoken to the Seahawks about potential deals, with the Saints seeking a first- or second-round draft choice for Howard and the Texans possibly willing to part with Sharper for a fourth-round pick.

cadahnic
03-11-2005, 04:50 PM
If we dont package sharper in a deal to move up in the draft I will be so hurt. I mean he has been the leagues top or top 5 tackler for three years now and he is still relatively young. I know alot of people want DJ who would be awsome but likely not going to happen, but if we could trade for two first rounders or something of that sort and add some serious depth we could be dangerous.

texan279
03-11-2005, 04:54 PM
I don't know exactly what Sharper's value is on the market, but we got a 3rd round pick for Drew Henson and if it is true we are willing to take a 4th round pick for Sharper either something is oging on we do not know about or the Texans want him gone badly...

uga_iv
03-11-2005, 05:25 PM
It's about the $$$$$$$

texan279
03-11-2005, 05:27 PM
If it is about money and the powers that be feel he will make too much this season, they should cut him, personally I don't think his salary is too much if you look at what he has done for us the last 3 seasons, I am starting to feel the people up top want him gone for other reasons.

MIGHTYTEX
03-11-2005, 08:08 PM
Signing a no-name free agent to replace a solid, top-notch LB is scary to me.

If Sharper was so "top-notch" there would be teams knocking down our doors and trying to get him, but guess what they aren't. Don't get me wrong Sharper as been a big part of our team the past 3 years, but the coaches and CC think its time for a change. All we can do is trust them in their thinking until everything plays out at the end of next season, then thats the time to reflect back and see if they made the right decision.

texan279
03-11-2005, 08:11 PM
If Sharper was so "top-notch" there would be teams knocking down our doors and trying to get him, but guess what they aren't. Don't get me wrong Sharper as been a big part of our team the past 3 years, but the coaches and CC think its time for a change. All we can do is trust them in their thinking until everything plays out at the end of next season, then thats the time to reflect back and see if they made the right decision.

IMO the reason no team has made an offer is A. because of Sharper's cap hit and B. because I have read in a few spots that Sharper will be released soon if he is not traded so teams may be waiting for him to be released so they don't have to give up any picks or players.

TexansTrueFan
03-11-2005, 08:21 PM
i always thought Sharper was the one strength that our defense had, i guess i was wrong. Is it me or is our D gonna be missing something when he's gone ???

Wolf
03-11-2005, 08:29 PM
i always thought Sharper was the one strength that our defense had, i guess i was wrong. Is it me or is our D gonna be missing something when he's gone ???
I'm divided on this.. I like Sharper.. I want him to retire as a Texan, yet he has one year left on his contract and I am assuming (you know what they say about when you assume) that contract extention has stalled and that is what this fuss is about. Well we better get something for him before he leaves us.Only smart thing to do.

TexansTrueFan
03-11-2005, 09:00 PM
yeah id hate to see him go as well, but if he does i would like to see us get something for him, i think he is one of the better ILB in the nfl !!!

AndreJ
03-11-2005, 09:08 PM
My take on the situation is that we should atleast try and get something with a trade, but im not for realeasing him just to free up some cap space.

Jamie has been wonderful these past 3 years, but he is past his prime and wont get any better. He will either stay the same or his playing ability will decrease as age starts to take a toll on him. I think the texans could use some more youth @ the ILB position which they acheived with Greenwood, but another young backer to go alongside with him would be very nice.

Obviously i would love to see DJ in a Texans uniform and i am all for the trade with the Browns, but i dont know abotut he likelyhood of that. Anywho, I would really like to see Greenwood and another young ILB mature together throughout thier careers and see them tag-team on opposing offenses.

Honoring Earl 34
03-12-2005, 09:43 AM
:shocked It got really messy when Sharper demanded a release . He took the Texans trading leverage and tossed into Braes Bayou.

hot pickle
03-12-2005, 10:40 AM
what about Sharper for Andra Davis on the and maybe a 3rd or 4th rounder

BigDTexansFan
03-12-2005, 11:22 AM
Everyone knows Dallas is changing to 3-4 because Bill wants 3-4, so why not trade Jamie Sharper to Dallas for one of those early 1st round picks. they get LB who is a consistent player and knows 3-4 and we get an extra pick to get a couple of solid additions like Drob and Babin :thumbup

dalemurphy
03-12-2005, 12:48 PM
Everyone knows Dallas is changing to 3-4 because Bill wants 3-4, so why not trade Jamie Sharper to Dallas for one of those early 1st round picks. they get LB who is a consistent player and knows 3-4 and we get an extra pick to get a couple of solid additions like Drob and Babin :thumbup

Because Sharper is in the final year of his contract, he's almost 31, and he's making $6 million per year... Nobody is going to give us a first round pick in order to take over that situation.

TexanExile
03-12-2005, 02:09 PM
Yup. You can't even get T.O. for a first-round pick in the NFL!

It's not gonna happen....MAYBE a 2nd.

infantrycak
03-12-2005, 05:27 PM
Because Sharper is in the final year of his contract, he's almost 31, and he's making $6 million per year... Nobody is going to give us a first round pick in order to take over that situation.

People keep acting like Sharper has no trade value because he is in the last year of his contract, but the reverse is true. Trades only get done in the NFL in the last 1-2 years of the contracts because the trading team has to take all the un-prorated signing bonus as a dead money cap hit. The new team just makes the deal conditional on having an acceptable contract extension worked out. For example, Champ Bailey and Clinton Portis both worked on new contracts when traded.

bckey
03-14-2005, 09:30 AM
This was posted on KFFL today. So it isn't impossible to trade Sharper and move up and take Derrick Johnson or to at least get a 3rd rounder for Jamie.


Vikings | Made Two Offers for Jaguars' Darius - from www.KFFL.com
Mon, 14 Mar 2005 00:45:28 -0800

Bart Hubbuch, of the Florida Times-Union, reports the Minnesota Vikings gave two trade proposals to the Jacksonville Jaguars regarding Jaguars SS Donovin Darius. Both trade offers were turned down by the Jaguars. According to the report, the Vikings first offered the Jaguars their No. 7 overall pick for the Jaguars No. 21 pick and Darius. The team's second offer was reportedly a third-round pick for Darius.

JustBonee
03-14-2005, 10:03 AM
If you haven't read Ajs 'Voice of the Fan' on the main page .. it's a great read.
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/news_detail.php?PRKey=1585


Losing the most popular player in the team's short history will be felt.
http://www.houstontexans.com/news_images/players/sharper/sharper_colts111404.jpg

bckey
03-14-2005, 10:13 AM
Thanks Sassy. That was a very good read.

TexansNFL
03-14-2005, 02:43 PM
Sharper is the Texans player that I admire the most. He is a leader on and off the field and he will be missed. Leaders say and do what is needed even though it is not politically correct. Leaders stand up and fight when necessary.

The real reason that Sharper was told to seek a trade is because he said “somebody has to show us the way” and “we need somebody to direct us to wins instead of close games.” I said amen to that. I respect Sharper for having the guts to tell it like it is, and I am sure that some of the young players on the team also respect him for that.

The Texans are a team in turmoil after only 3 years of starting play!! CC said that he came to Houston to build a team...I wonder how getting rid of the best defensive player on the team, who is still young, is accomplishing that?? What kind of message it sends to other veteran players? Shut up or be traded? How is that building a team? Who is next? Wong said after the last game of the season that the "coudn't understand why Texans got away from what was working" does that mean he is next?

Caw Daddy
03-14-2005, 03:54 PM
hes old, just like pace. i think we trade him for some youngins and maybe some picks.

jacquescas
03-14-2005, 04:21 PM
send sharper to the Rams for pace, we prolly have to throw in project LT wand and a 3rd rounder but its worth it.

HardCoreTxn
03-15-2005, 02:02 AM
I think losing Sharper will be a big blow to our defense, 139 tackles,...6th in the league,...I hope they can work it our because our D was really starting to click.

TexanBacker93
03-15-2005, 08:52 AM
Sharper is the Texans player that I admire the most. He is a leader on and off the field and he will be missed. Leaders say and do what is needed even though it is not politically correct. Leaders stand up and fight when necessary.

The real reason that Sharper was told to seek a trade is because he said “somebody has to show us the way” and “we need somebody to direct us to wins instead of close games.” I said amen to that. I respect Sharper for having the guts to tell it like it is, and I am sure that some of the young players on the team also respect him for that.

The Texans are a team in turmoil after only 3 years of starting play!! CC said that he came to Houston to build a team...I wonder how getting rid of the best defensive player on the team, who is still young, is accomplishing that?? What kind of message it sends to other veteran players? Shut up or be traded? How is that building a team? Who is next? Wong said after the last game of the season that the "coudn't understand why Texans got away from what was working" does that mean he is next?

You've spoken with Casserly and Capers? What else did they tell you? It could be that the Texans are trying to trade Sharper because he spoke out. It could be they want to trade him because he is overpaid as a LB in a 3-4 defense. It could be they want to trade him because he is turning 30, wants a 5 plus year extension and hasn't shown that he will improve over the next 5 years. It could be they want to trade him because they can get someone that's faster in the middle.

The 3-4 defense forces the ILBs to make tackles. Foreman led the league in tackles for us one year. I guess he's better than Ray Lewis since he made all the tackles. Sharper was a very good LB for the Texans. I liked watching him and I liked the way he played, but he isn't a franchise player. The Ravens wouldn't have let him go if he was. Do you honestly feel he is the best player on the defense? Is it just because you see his jersey everywhere in the stands and he is the most vocal? I think Robinson and Babin have more upside and more overall talent. They play more difficult positions and did very well as rookies.

I fail to see what turmoil the Texans are in. They struggled in the last week of the season against a team with nothing to lose. Teams lose games. There is no difference in 7-9 or 8-8. The Texans didn't lose a spot in the playoffs because of that game. It doesn't affect the outcomes this season. The Texans are looking to dump a few salaries to maintain flexibility and continue to improve the defense. The Patriots released 9 players 2 weeks ago. A few of them guys that started for them. Do you think they are in turmoil? 2 years ago they released their starting safety a week before the season started. Teams get rid of players. If a team wants to win in this league in this day and age they have to be willing to make roster adjustments and make the difficult decisions.

AndreJ
03-15-2005, 10:30 AM
Sharper is the Texans player that I admire the most. He is a leader on and off the field and he will be missed. Leaders say and do what is needed even though it is not politically correct. Leaders stand up and fight when necessary.

The real reason that Sharper was told to seek a trade is because he said “somebody has to show us the way” and “we need somebody to direct us to wins instead of close games.” I said amen to that. I respect Sharper for having the guts to tell it like it is, and I am sure that some of the young players on the team also respect him for that.

The Texans are a team in turmoil after only 3 years of starting play!! CC said that he came to Houston to build a team...I wonder how getting rid of the best defensive player on the team, who is still young, is accomplishing that?? What kind of message it sends to other veteran players? Shut up or be traded? How is that building a team? Who is next? Wong said after the last game of the season that the "coudn't understand why Texans got away from what was working" does that mean he is next?

Sharper is far from young?... and just exactly how do you know that his statements are the real reason his is being traded/cut/realesed? You're gonna have to do better than making a few statements that were assumed, give us a link or something.

LBblitz
03-15-2005, 07:20 PM
Initially I thought the idea of trading sharper would be horrible but it makes more sense to me now that an aging LB wanting too much money is not the way to go. He may be a fan favorite but fan favorites do not always mean winning, example:emitt smith in AZ. If we strengthen our D by releasing him by adding more youth I am all for it. Who knows, we may even find a gem in his replacement.

hot pickle
03-15-2005, 07:25 PM
I say try to trade him for a 2nd rounder, and if we sign pace, and give up a 1st rounder, maybe trade later picks for a 1st round like last year

ccdude730
03-15-2005, 07:43 PM
sharper for a 2nd rounder? that sure sounds nice but you might have an easier time trying to sell ice to an eskimo.

sources are saying we got played - pace signs a long term contract with the rams so no giving up our 1st.

like last year, we very well might likely trade back into the 1st round

TheRealJoker
03-15-2005, 07:52 PM
Well that sucks. But if we get a good value in return for him it may not suck so bad....

fresno8
03-17-2005, 11:01 AM
If we had made the playoffs last year I'd be more reluctant to trade Sharper. I like this team and I think we can get to the playoffs this year with or w/ out Jaime. It would be nice to get a 2nd for him, but I would be happy with a 3/4 or 3/5 type deal. I think we have enough young veterans who are ready to lead this team so lets trade Sharper, save some cap space and get picks to add more pieces to the puzzle. Babin/Dunta are the face of our D for the future. Glenn Earl is a good young talent too + Peek, Greenwood, etc, see my point here we have some players on D. With the pick we get for Sharper we can find a good D-lineman to help this year and to groom to start in a year or two, or a saftety to replace Coleman in a year or 2, or a db to replace glenn in a couple years. Payne will do fine being a leader for the D and Babin, Peek, Earl, & Dunta have experience now + I like Greenwood and we'll have a couple good rookies. I like Sharper but lets get something for him while we can.

keyfro
03-17-2005, 03:52 PM
well the way i've been looking at the whole sharper issue is this...if we trade or release sharper then we are more likely to start peek who i think we can all agree should be given a chance to start all 16 games...if we don't lose sharper then we keep a cornerstone of our defense but we need to re-sign him to a long term deal...what do i think is gonna happen...i think he'll be part of a draft day trade in order for us to gain another 1st day pick...probably a third rounder

jacquescas
03-17-2005, 05:02 PM
i think the best we can do realisticly is a 3rd or 4th round pick, factoring in his contract age and lack of pro bowl appearances, his price will be driven down.

keepsharper05
03-19-2005, 01:51 PM
The guy is the best player on our defense. If they do trade him I don't think even a just a first rounder can provide what he does to this team. I am not a big Wong fan, him playing inside isn't as comforting to me than Sharper, a pro bowl caliber player.

BigDTexansFan
03-19-2005, 03:04 PM
I have been encouraging the fans of the 2nd best NFL team in Texas to give us that extra #1 as they will only waste it, if they going 3-4 who better to help other players get accustomed to it then our trade bait Jamie Sharper.


On a more personal note last time Texans played in Dallas in preseason. Jamie Sharper was nice enough after game to sign some autographs and talk to a few fans that night

z0rpAn
03-22-2005, 02:44 PM
I think it would be a great deal and it would be a win win situation.

barzilla
03-22-2005, 02:49 PM
I think we would have to throw in a draft pick, but Sharper and a third would be a nice deal. Do the Cardinals need a linebacker though?

Tailgate
03-22-2005, 02:51 PM
And the cap situation?

Tailgate
03-22-2005, 02:52 PM
And can the Cards afford to lose a Tackle????

Scooter
03-23-2005, 09:16 AM
i'd like to know how we'll possibly improve on defense by losing sharper.

sharper > wong
sharper > greenwood
sharper > 3rd (or worse) draft pick
DJ might be a future upgrade or he might be a bust (dont read too far into it, i'd love to have DJ, he's yet to even see a nfl practice squad is my point)

we play a 3-4 defense and losing our best lb doesnt make much sense to me, nomatter the reason. if it is posturing to assist in negotiations, fine. if we're looking to dump salaries, get rid of foreman & wong. both of whom have been average at best over the past 3 seasons. dont drop the defensive mvp for our entire existance.

"he's on the downside of his career" ... and still leads the texans defense in nearly every category.

"he costs too much" ... maybe, but we can afford it. the last year of a veteran's contract is always big, that's nothing new.

"he angered management with his comments" ... he said what fans have been saying for 3 years. play to win a game instead of keeping it close til the end. vinny you said his comments showed lack of leadership and i'm not sure i see how. how is he supposed to lead to wins? he's not much of a quarterback, i doubt he's calling the plays from the booth, & i really dont think he'd accomplish much on our lethargic o-line. he does lead with his play though sporting first in tackles, stops for loss, forced fumbles (t), & defensive td's (t) ... had we actually blitzed and used him on the rare occasion that we did he'd probably have atleast 2 more sacks putting him on top there also. i'd actually commend him on his restraint for saying only the blatently obvious.

TheOgre
03-23-2005, 09:20 AM
I have been encouraging the fans of the 2nd best NFL team in Texas to give us that extra #1 as they will only waste it, if they going 3-4 who better to help other players get accustomed to it then our trade bait Jamie Sharper.

Pipe dream. We will be LUCKY to get a 3rd rounder for him.

Vinny
03-23-2005, 09:40 AM
vinny you said his comments showed lack of leadership and i'm not sure i see how. how is he supposed to lead to wins? Most of the people around me knew I was critical of Sharper's play long before this was announced (the Texans moving him on). I just thought that the comment was weak because leaders don't beg to be led. He could lead by example or by word, but he was doing neither with those comments and his poor play. Not much more to my comment than that.

wildcat45
03-23-2005, 09:42 AM
whos in line to pick up dj in the draft and is it possible for that big a jump down with a trade involving sharper

TheOgre
03-23-2005, 09:59 AM
whos in line to pick up dj in the draft and is it possible for that big a jump down with a trade involving sharper

Another lets get DJ fan huh? Sharper likely wouldn't move us up much in the draft IF we found a taker. If we moved from 13 to say 6 (Tennessee), the proper term is "moving up" not "jump down".

FILO_girl
03-23-2005, 10:20 AM
i'd like to know how we'll possibly improve on defense by losing sharper.

sharper > wong
sharper > greenwood
sharper > 3rd (or worse) draft pick
DJ might be a future upgrade or he might be a bust (dont read too far into it, i'd love to have DJ, he's yet to even see a nfl practice squad is my point)

we play a 3-4 defense and losing our best lb doesnt make much sense to me, nomatter the reason. if it is posturing to assist in negotiations, fine. if we're looking to dump salaries, get rid of foreman & wong. both of whom have been average at best over the past 3 seasons. dont drop the defensive mvp for our entire existance.

"he's on the downside of his career" ... and still leads the texans defense in nearly every category.

"he costs too much" ... maybe, but we can afford it. the last year of a veteran's contract is always big, that's nothing new.

"he angered management with his comments" ... he said what fans have been saying for 3 years. play to win a game instead of keeping it close til the end. vinny you said his comments showed lack of leadership and i'm not sure i see how. how is he supposed to lead to wins? he's not much of a quarterback, i doubt he's calling the plays from the booth, & i really dont think he'd accomplish much on our lethargic o-line. he does lead with his play though sporting first in tackles, stops for loss, forced fumbles (t), & defensive td's (t) ... had we actually blitzed and used him on the rare occasion that we did he'd probably have atleast 2 more sacks putting him on top there also. i'd actually commend him on his restraint for saying only the blatently obvious.

:thumbup GREAT post!

ThaShark316
03-23-2005, 01:02 PM
i'd like to know how we'll possibly improve on defense by losing sharper.

sharper > wong
sharper > greenwood
sharper > 3rd (or worse) draft pick
DJ might be a future upgrade or he might be a bust (dont read too far into it, i'd love to have DJ, he's yet to even see a nfl practice squad is my point)

we play a 3-4 defense and losing our best lb doesnt make much sense to me, nomatter the reason. if it is posturing to assist in negotiations, fine. if we're looking to dump salaries, get rid of foreman & wong. both of whom have been average at best over the past 3 seasons. dont drop the defensive mvp for our entire existance.

"he's on the downside of his career" ... and still leads the texans defense in nearly every category.

"he costs too much" ... maybe, but we can afford it. the last year of a veteran's contract is always big, that's nothing new.

"he angered management with his comments" ... he said what fans have been saying for 3 years. play to win a game instead of keeping it close til the end. vinny you said his comments showed lack of leadership and i'm not sure i see how. how is he supposed to lead to wins? he's not much of a quarterback, i doubt he's calling the plays from the booth, & i really dont think he'd accomplish much on our lethargic o-line. he does lead with his play though sporting first in tackles, stops for loss, forced fumbles (t), & defensive td's (t) ... had we actually blitzed and used him on the rare occasion that we did he'd probably have atleast 2 more sacks putting him on top there also. i'd actually commend him on his restraint for saying only the blatently
obvious.



Stating the obvious > j00 :whistle: :heh:


We can wish they keep the Sharper Image...BUT IT AINT HAPPENIN'! Trust me, I want predator back here, but the wrong things were said..sadly, he wont be back. :thumbdown

Mr Shush
03-24-2005, 07:14 AM
The Cards could use both a linebacker and an injection of experience. They still have plenty of cap room. Shelton is out of favour with Green, basically because he's a lazy sod, and I don't want him here for the same reason. If they just want to throw us their third, that might be ok by me.

z0rpAn
03-24-2005, 09:20 AM
And can the Cards afford to lose a Tackle????

"Shelton, a first-round pick in 1999, has started 77 games. Falling out of favor with Cardinals' first-year coach Dennis Green last season, Shelton had only nine starts and missed the final three games with a left knee injury.

Shelton, who has the Cardinals permission to seek a trade, visited the Bills last month. "

http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/BUF/8316634

<<EDIT>>

I'm not too familiar with linemen but in that article i read that he had quality

infantrycak
03-24-2005, 09:40 AM
The nine starts he did get last year came at RT not LT by the way.

JustBonee
03-24-2005, 09:42 AM
We can wish they keep the Sharper Image...BUT IT AINT HAPPENIN'! Trust me, I want predator back here, but the wrong things were said..sadly, he wont be back. :thumbdown
You are probably right. Reality has finally set in for me. It was fun while it lasted!
Jamie gave us some exciting football, especially the first two years.

Wonder if we'll see all the #55 jerseys in the stadium this year? I plan to wear mine.

TexansTrueFan
03-24-2005, 10:30 AM
i really feel letting sharper go will come back to bite this organization in the rear end. I only hope Green wood can be half as productive as Sharper has been for us the 3 years he has been here.

texan279
03-25-2005, 09:14 PM
Texans | Could Hold Onto Sharper Beyond Draft - from www.KFFL.com
Fri, 25 Mar 2005 15:26:10 -0800

ESPN.com's Len Pasquarelli reports the Houston Texans may hold onto LB Jamie Sharper until after the NFL Draft if they are not able to work out a trade before then. While they are looking to part ways with him, they are not simply going to give him away.

D-ReK
03-25-2005, 09:22 PM
Texans | Could Hold Onto Sharper Beyond Draft - from www.KFFL.com
Fri, 25 Mar 2005 15:26:10 -0800

ESPN.com's Len Pasquarelli reports the Houston Texans may hold onto LB Jamie Sharper until after the NFL Draft if they are not able to work out a trade before then. While they are looking to part ways with him, they are not simply going to give him away.

That's what I like to see...We have all the leverage in this situation, and it's good to see the front office at least trying to get something for him...

TexansTrueFan
03-25-2005, 11:09 PM
i agree we should atleast try to get something for our leading tackler ! Itd be dumb not to !

ThOrNy
03-27-2005, 10:33 AM
im fine with a third rd pick! we are keeping the roster young and restructuring or giving him a new deal next year would be pointless (in this regard i aggree with CC). he is a solid player but if we can get pro bowl caliber players at most positions and all of them be young by building in the drsft the way we are than there is a bright future. hhmmmm dynasty??

TexansTrueFan
03-27-2005, 01:23 PM
im fine with a third rd pick! we are keeping the roster young and restructuring or giving him a new deal next year would be pointless (in this regard i aggree with CC). he is a solid player but if we can get pro bowl caliber players at most positions and all of them be young by building in the drsft the way we are than there is a bright future. hhmmmm dynasty??


haha that is the first time i have ever heard someone say dynasty is the same sentence as the texans, well lets win 1-2 superbowls and then we can have that kinda thread, or more fire D.D or Capers threads, cause noone will ever be 100% happy !

ThOrNy
03-27-2005, 10:19 PM
hehe, im tryin to project it into reality. lets make the playoffs first hey

texan_fan
03-30-2005, 08:18 PM
I finally found something in writing about Jamie: http://www.bengals.com/press/news.asp?iCurPage=0&news_id=2792

Pisses me off that I have to buy a new jersey in PROTEST of what they're doing.

We should ALL do that...buy his new team jersey and wear it opening day ( regular season ) in protest of this...

**sigh**

pat
03-30-2005, 08:25 PM
Yeah this pisses me off too. I thought I was over it but I guess not!

xuboy
03-31-2005, 02:53 AM
I love Sharper's play for the Texans, but he is wearing down and getting older. We have young and speedy linebackers on our roster already so if you move Sharper, somebody will step up. What if the Texans trade Sharper and our second pick for Dallas' second first round pick? I'm thinking Alex Barron at 13 and either Carlos Rogers or Fabian Washington at 20. Barron will give us a franchise left tackle and imagine Rogers or Washington opposite Robinson. That will allow Aaron Glenn to move to nickel or dime back. As for d-line and wide receiver, look at these two young players we can trade for late draft picks...

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/493017
Johnnie Morant-young, tall, athletic receiver, great hands and speed,age 23

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/235152
Terdell Sands-young, massive nose tackle, takes up a lot of space, under the guidance of Ted Washington, age 25

That's what we should do.

El Tejano
03-31-2005, 09:57 AM
Sharper has never missed a game in his eight year career? That has to say something. I am tired of us trying new people on defense. We all want consistency well maybe keeping the people that have proven to be there over the years would help that out. This defense has been bothered by injuries in the past and he has proven to be durable.

Vinny
03-31-2005, 10:23 AM
I think the team wanted to get faster in its chase backers (inside guys) and Sharper has probably lost a step. I complained about his play several times last year and mused he was on decline. That is debatable, but it sure looks like the Texans see it that way as well. Not all Texans fans are upset over this.

El Tejano
03-31-2005, 10:27 AM
I am not either and I don't see it as hurting us if we lose him but I do wish we could get the same players for a few years especially standouts. This way we have no excuses. I guess the team knows better though.

pat
03-31-2005, 10:50 AM
The only player I see who is declining is Gary Walker but we signed him on thinking he will do better this season. What gives us the right to predict who is going to do better?

People, Sharper is not old. He is still young.

Vinny
03-31-2005, 12:43 PM
Over the history of the NFL there are many people I could point to in the 2-gap tackle mold that has had long careers because their skill set doesn't really have to factor in losing a step due to age. I think Walker has a much better chance to play at a high level longer than Sharper does. I'm in the minority opinion but I see Walkers struggles tied into his injuries and it limited his explosion the last year and a half. I don't see why he cannot reach the Pro Bowl status he played to when he was our first Pro Bowler. He hasn't lost any of the skills that make 2-gap players effective; he just had some nagging injury concerns. Speed is a key component to our inside linebacker spot however. If you watch the games again we were a step slow across the board inside all year long. I'm not all tore up on this Sharper thing myself. I hope he gets a nice gig.

OzzO
03-31-2005, 01:13 PM
I finally found something in writing about Jamie: http://www.bengals.com/press/news.asp?iCurPage=0&news_id=2792

Pisses me off that I have to buy a new jersey in PROTEST of what they're doing.

We should ALL do that...buy his new team jersey and wear it opening day ( regular season ) in protest of this...

**sigh**

Yeah - the TEXANS are the bad guys in this and Sharper is just a poor defenseless waif that wants to be with his bud in Cincinatti. :listening Amazing how a one-sided spin can be placed on it.

It's a business brother. The company is looking to profit from the move and will wait till the last moment if necessary. Welcome to the contract you signed.

I'm gonna miss him (if it does end up a split), and he served well during his tenure here... he even graces my Battle Red jersey and don't plan on buying another red one any time soon just because he leaves. Ditto Vinny that I wish him well in his future endevors, but dang - can you blame the Texans for trying to make an improvement on defense and pass rushes?

Seem to recall a few posts this past year of "why can't we get to the QB?"

... and no, texan_fan, I'm not calling you out. Just voicing a response to that link. Everyone has their opinion.

nunusguy
03-31-2005, 01:18 PM
Speed is a key component to our inside linebacker spot however. If you watch the games again we were a step slow across the board inside all year long.
Jamies speed was not the only thing that receded last year, his intensity
did to. I imagine he became frustrated and his competitive edge got a little dull about the time he realized for the third consecutive year that he would not get into the playoffs and once again would not make the Hawaii trip. He should have gone to the Pro Bowl after the '03 sweason when he led the league in tackles, but its tough when you're on a team with a losing record.
Jamie (and A.Glenn and G.Walker for that matter) were never this teams future - they were our X draft personnel to permit us to run in place until we could really develope our team with a base of players lead by Carr, AJ, D-Rob, etc.

TheOgre
03-31-2005, 02:14 PM
Jamie (and A.Glenn and G.Walker for that matter) were never this teams future - they were our X draft personnel to permit us to run in place until we could really develope our team with a base of players lead by Carr, AJ, D-Rob, etc.

You bring up a good point here. Wong, Sharper, Walker, Payne, Coleman, Glenn, Foreman, and McKinney were brought in 3 years ago while they were in their relative primes. 2-3 years from now, they will all likely be considered "past their prime". One or two of them might still be productive, but we have to plan for the rest of the guys' replacements. D-Rob is Coleman's replacement at CB. Greenwood is Foreman's replacement. Babin was Wong's initial replacement, but we just moved him. Perhaps Peek will subplant him on the other side and Wong will replace Sharper's soon-to-be-departed spot.

That still leaves Wong (as an ILB), Payne, Walker, Coleman (at FS now), and our favorite punching bag, Steve McKinney, to get bumped of the next few years. We have our work cut out for us.

!! ITEAF !!
04-01-2005, 09:50 AM
I agree with Grid. I cannot see us losing Shaper without trying to get Johnson.

Also I may be alone on this...but I think if we give Carr enogh time in the pocket ( O-line upgrade) he could still utilize Gaffney.

Gaffney is a great receiver waitng to happen! His hands are good, he doesn't have break away speed but neither did Jerry Rice. Not comparing him to Rice but I think our receiver corps is set. We need to free up David to allow him to utilize them. :thumbup

El Tejano
04-01-2005, 10:00 AM
When was this said?

Sorry, I thought there was a post on this thread that said someone was asking for Sharper, Wand and a second for Orlando Pace. I click back and then that post is gone. Sorry don't mind me.

PapaL
04-01-2005, 02:04 PM
MLB Status in Free Agency.....

ESPN.com (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2027049&num=0)

The other position at which there is a logjam in free agency is linebacker, especially middle linebacker, where several starting caliber players remain in limbo. Longtime starting middle 'backers such as Ronald McKinnon of Arizona and Indianapolis' Rob Morris are still looking for work but, as is the case with safeties, might have to wait until after the draft to find homes.

The Cincinnati Bengals are looking for a new starter in the middle but appear to be in no hurry to fill the position. As indicated here last week, the Bengals seem poised to make some type of move with Nate Webster, who they signed last spring to be the starter, but who suffered a patella tendon injury from which he has been slow to recover. The guess here is that Cincinnati eventually will reach an injury settlement with Webster and fill the spot with one of two 2004 draft picks, Landon Johnson or Caleb Miller, or add a veteran run-stuffer.

Two names to watch: Jamie Sharper of Houston and Atlanta's Chris Draft. Both veterans are on the trading block but Cincinnati coach Marvin Lewis is more apt to play a waiting game, hoping that one or both of the players will be released after the draft.

El Tejano
04-01-2005, 02:40 PM
Hopefully Casserly will be able to find a couple of customers. Maybe between Cincy and Cleveland.

jacquescas
04-01-2005, 05:04 PM
and this topic is dead. Dr. please remove the feeding tube to this thread.