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ToxicButt
02-24-2010, 10:20 AM
I am actually a big Rockets fan and admire Daryl Morey's (the GM) advanced methods of player evaluation. Beyond traditional scouting, Morey's staff uses complex quantitative analysis and are able to identify characteristics of performance (defense and ability to draw fouls) that are undervalued relative to cost.

The situation with Dunta brings back a frustration of mine regarding football. Lots of folks here say Dunta's not worth the tag, Dunta's average but still our best, and on and on....

These observations might be right but is there a real basis for these opinions?

For example, my own eyes seemed to tell me that there's no real difference between Glover Quinn, Jacque Reeves and Dunta. All of them appear to be pretty average CB's that sometimes made plays defending the pass and Quinn and Dunta being somewhat better against the run (but Dunta has declined in that area the most).

Reeves and Quinn look faster, but Reeves lacks instincts to make plays on the ball.

For those reasons, I don't think Dunta leaving makes that much a difference, unless you expect that he will "Return to form" another year removed from surgery.

In football, how do talent evaluators compare these three. What are the criteria, whether subjective or objective?

Shaft75
02-24-2010, 04:16 PM
I am actually a big Rockets fan and admire Daryl Morey's (the GM) advanced methods of player evaluation. Beyond traditional scouting, Morey's staff uses complex quantitative analysis and are able to identify characteristics of performance (defense and ability to draw fouls) that are undervalued relative to cost.

The situation with Dunta brings back a frustration of mine regarding football. Lots of folks here say Dunta's not worth the tag, Dunta's average but still our best, and on and on....

These observations might be right but is there a real basis for these opinions?

For example, my own eyes seemed to tell me that there's no real difference between Glover Quinn, Jacque Reeves and Dunta. All of them appear to be pretty average CB's that sometimes made plays defending the pass and Quinn and Dunta being somewhat better against the run (but Dunta has declined in that area the most).

Reeves and Quinn look faster, but Reeves lacks instincts to make plays on the ball.

For those reasons, I don't think Dunta leaving makes that much a difference, unless you expect that he will "Return to form" another year removed from surgery.

In football, how do talent evaluators compare these three. What are the criteria, whether subjective or objective?

Cornerbacks sit on an island. Shouldn't be hard to determine their talent. I would have to see game film though, which I don't think any fan can get his hands on.

We do know that top players get the big paydays. I haven't seen enough evidence that he is a top dollar guy. In the other Dunta thread I asked who can name a big play that Dunta made this season, and only got one reply. I can't personally remember when he made a huge play. I remember Pollard, Cushing, Demeco, Mario, and Smith's plays. The only thing that comes to mind with Dunta is a couple of dropped INT's.

painekiller
02-24-2010, 11:13 PM
Try this site they already have rated every player in the league.

ProFootballFocus.com (http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=CB&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1)

Lucky
02-24-2010, 11:30 PM
Try this site they already have rated every player in the league.

ProFootballFocus.com (http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=CB&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1)
Ranking Tom Brady behind Joe Flacco and David Garrard tells me their formula needs a little tweaking. Maybe more than a little.

ToxicButt
02-25-2010, 10:09 AM
250 views of this thread and three responses, only one of which attempts to answer the question. This is kind of disappointing and seems to support a theory I have ... evaluation of football players is much more subjective and speculative (euphamisms for opinion based guesswork) than it should be, even on this board.

infantrycak
02-25-2010, 10:13 AM
Ranking Tom Brady behind Joe Flacco and David Garrard tells me their formula needs a little tweaking. Maybe more than a little.

Yeah I go look at their stats but their rankings often look whack.

lostboy
02-25-2010, 12:06 PM
Cornerbacks sit on an island. Shouldn't be hard to determine their talent. I would have to see game film though, which I don't think any fan can get his hands on.

We do know that top players get the big paydays. I haven't seen enough evidence that he is a top dollar guy. In the other Dunta thread I asked who can name a big play that Dunta made this season, and only got one reply. I can't personally remember when he made a huge play. I remember Pollard, Cushing, Demeco, Mario, and Smith's plays. The only thing that comes to mind with Dunta is a couple of dropped INT's.


Dunta was a leader of the team... but the last season has been about him trying to show his worth( to the Texans and the world)...the play that stands out the most to me, besides the gimme INT that he dropped was laying the wood to Addai in the Colts game and then Peyton lighting us up for 30 yards, since he was 10 yards down field showboating...Yes, yes ,yes he wasn't the only person not ready that next play, but even Peyton made comment about it after the game.

Shaft75
02-25-2010, 03:47 PM
Dunta was a leader of the team... but the last season has been about him trying to show his worth( to the Texans and the world)...the play that stands out the most to me, besides the gimme INT that he dropped was laying the wood to Addai in the Colts game and then Peyton lighting us up for 30 yards, since he was 10 yards down field showboating...Yes, yes ,yes he wasn't the only person not ready that next play, but even Peyton made comment about it after the game.

How did I forget about that???? Good call man, that really pissed me off.

Carr Bombed
02-25-2010, 09:44 PM
Try this site they already have rated every player in the league.

ProFootballFocus.com (http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=CB&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1)


I really do hate that website. I see people post it on forums around the league and their rankings are horrible. Here's a funny thread on the Jags message board when they put David Garrard ahead of Tom Brady and Kurt Warner.

http://forum.jaguars.com/index.php?showtopic=682326

That same website also has Mercedes Lewis rated ahead of Dallas Clark and Antonio Gates (ahead of Owen Daniels as well) and has Joel Dreessen rated ahead of Owen Daniels. A website that does that has no credibility with me. I don't know what stats they compute or what equations they use to come up with those rankings, but whatever is is.....they need to change their formula.