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Second Honeymoon
02-25-2010, 12:51 PM
Why?

OD is not better than Dallas Clark, Antonio Gates, Jason Witten, Tony Gonzales, Vernon Davis, Heath Miller. Even Kellen Winslow, Visanthe Shiancoe and a few others are better or on par with OD. Yes he is good. Yes he can catch. But overall he is not top 5 IMO. OD coming off a knee injury doesnt help his case.

I really hope he sits out TC. I want to see if TexansTalk bashes him like they bashed Dunta.

something tells me he won't. just a wild guess.

Blake
02-25-2010, 12:53 PM
something tells me he won't. just a wild guess.

Agreed.

FYI

"Second Honeymoon has exceeded their stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until they clear some space."

Second Honeymoon
02-25-2010, 12:57 PM
Seems like the players union did not do a very good job educating the players on the potential upcoming difficulties. If they had, Dunta, OD and DeMeco should have jumped on the deals they were offered last year which by all accounts were ordinarily configured deals. Now they are RFAs again or staring a very uncertain market in the face.

i blame the agents more than the NFLPA. the agents don't want to take a lowball-ish offer because it makes them look bad. the agents will end up costing their clients millions but will be able to blame the new rules when the prospectively lower deals are inked and signed.

isn't it 6 RFA tenders per team? and now the UFA is 6 years tenure not 4. That is totally brutal.

i wonder if Dunta could do it all over again, would he have taken the deal he was offered last offseason?
i wonder if Dunta would have been franchised or re-signed by the Texans if not for his stupid 'Pay Me Rick' act.

Personally, I blame Kubiak for the PayMeRick blowing up. Dunta wrote the words but he shouldn't have even been on the field after such a selfish message. maybe Dunta getting benched would have woken the team up before their home opener v. the Jets. Dunta shouldn't have even been on the field after that petulant act. I would have benched him and docked him 1/16th of his franchise tag. After the game, Kubiak said he didn't know about the writing on his shoes. Give me an f-ing break. I am sure the whole locker room knew about it. Players talk and their not that stupid. and if Kubiak is that out of touch, we have serious problems.

Second Honeymoon
02-25-2010, 01:02 PM
What was Antonio Smith?

that is a 2nd tier signing imho. that is all a speculative term, but guaranteeing around 10-15 million over a long term deal isn't big money. Haynesworth-type deal is what I am talking about. I am talking about getting one of the truly elite players made available. Haynesworth. Jenkins. Turner. etc.

How sweet would it have been to take Big Al away from Bud and then have him just crush the Titans twice a year for the next decade.

nero THE zero
02-25-2010, 01:02 PM
it sure as hell isn't his track record. bob has yet to go out there and make a big splash player-wise or coaching-wise.

The mistake you're making is assuming that McNair shares the same fundamental idea of what creates a winning organization as you. He might very well be of the philosophy that a winning NFL team is built from the ground up, via internal promotions, rewarding your own players, and staying patient and loyal to your staff.

McNair's mentioned that he wants to model his franchise after the Steelers, and they operate in much the same way. Name the last time they spent top dollar of a free agent or hired a big-name head coach.

HuttoKarl
02-25-2010, 01:02 PM
that is a 2nd tier signing imho. that is all a speculative term, but guaranteeing around 10-15 million over a long term deal isn't big money. Haynesworth-type deal is what I am talking about. I am talking about getting one of the truly elite players made available. Haynesworth. Jenkins. Turner. etc.

How sweet would it have been to take Big Al away from Bud and then have him just crush the Titans twice a year for the next decade.

Pretty damn sweet.

Blake
02-25-2010, 01:06 PM
per game numbers are skewed because he missed half the season. those other guys played 16 games and are in less pass-happy run-deficient offenses.

don't get me wrong. OD is a good TE, but he is not Top 5. Top 10 for sure. He is close to Top 5 maybe 6th or 7th at best, but he has to show me he can do what he did last year for a whole season before I consider him Top 5.

I would take Witten, Gonzalez, Davis, Gates, and Clark over him. No doubt. Then you he is in the 2nd tier with Heath Miller, Celek, and Shiankoe. Winslow is off my radar until he gets with a real QB.

Thats basically what I said. They are putting OD on a pedestal cause he is a Texan. OD is right in line with your 2nd tier TE's. Heck, even your 2nd tier TE's played a full season in 2009. Not just 8 good games.

When is the last time you remember a legit champion contender NFL team give a multi-year contract extension to a player coming off off a knee injury? That is crazy talk.

And who was it that said "knee injuries arent as serious as they once were 5-10 years ago"? I think it was 2slik4u. Knee injuries can be career ending injuries!!! Are you on drugs that you would say something like that? Yeah I hear that all the time. Dude tore his ACL but dont worry! Just walk it off and rub some dirt on it! You will be fine!

Second Honeymoon
02-25-2010, 01:11 PM
The mistake you're making is assuming that McNair shares the same fundamental idea of what creates a winning organization as you. He might very well be of the philosophy that a winning NFL team is built from the ground up, via internal promotions, rewarding your own players, and staying patient and loyal to your staff.

McNair's mentioned that he wants to model his franchise after the Steelers, and they operate in much the same way. Name the last time they spent top dollar of a free agent or hired a big-name head coach.

how is letting go of your #1 CB who was drafted #10 overall building from the ground up?

how is letting him go rewarding your own players?

staying patient and loyal? this isn't Boy Scouts. it's the NFL. Didn't anyone learn anything from the handling of Carr?

As for the Steelers comparison, it is a disservice to the Steelers to compare them with us. You can't model yourself after a team like the Steelers with words. You have to do it through astute drafting, having success, and building a tradition of winning....trust me, if the Undercover Brother Tomlin doesn't make the playoffs next year, he will be gone. There are already Steelers faithful calling for his head one year removed from a championship.

Tomlin is cursed with the whole Switzer curse. You win but then you are told you won with another coach's team. Then you have a few down years because of injury and you are fired.

Section516
02-25-2010, 01:12 PM
that is a 2nd tier signing imho. that is all a speculative term, but guaranteeing around 10-15 million over a long term deal isn't big money. Haynesworth-type deal is what I am talking about. I am talking about getting one of the truly elite players made available. Haynesworth. Jenkins. Turner. etc.

How sweet would it have been to take Big Al away from Bud and then have him just crush the Titans twice a year for the next decade.

I know your not just saying Hayneworth, but I don't want to spend that much money for such a injury prone, known to take off entire games, player. Even Julius peppers. Now, Jared Allen is someone I'd go after. I don't know, I'm just turned on by these high motor players. At least they give it their all, I mean, MW annoys me. So much potential, so much power, yet not the will to give it your all.:cool:

Blake
02-25-2010, 01:13 PM
What was Antonio Smith?

Who was Antonio Smith 2 years ago? He rides the red capet from the superbowl Cardinals to the Texans vault on Kirby Dr.. I dont think you and I would disagree that he was not worth what we paid, but the market dictated that.

Hell Chris Canty got paid just as much. Around 7 million a year. Do you consider Chris Canty a big splash?

Section516
02-25-2010, 01:17 PM
He was the best DE on the market at the time, minus arranging some deal with the Panthers. Are you regreting that we signed him? He was the best DLman we had this year, all in all (he sucked major donkey at the start.) We still made the deal.

El Tejano
02-25-2010, 01:20 PM
A guy on HT.com said that he rewatched the MNF game vs. Tenn. Without even watching the game again myself I can tell you that game will give all the reason you need to let Dunta walk.

VY dedicating an entire passing drive to Dunta
Dunta chest bumping an INT.

ChampionTexan
02-25-2010, 01:23 PM
that is a 2nd tier signing imho. that is all a speculative term, but guaranteeing around 10-15 million over a long term deal isn't big money. Haynesworth-type deal is what I am talking about. I am talking about getting one of the truly elite players made available. Haynesworth. Jenkins. Turner. etc.

How sweet would it have been to take Big Al away from Bud and then have him just crush the Titans twice a year for the next decade.

The problem is there's more than one way to build a winning organization, and you seem to think that the Texans choosing to attempt it another way is simply inexcusable. There's no basis to say it can't work.

The Steelers, Colts, Giants and the Pats have won 7 of the last 9 Super Bowls. Not one of those Super Bowl winning teams relied much at all on high profile Free Agent pickups. In fact that biggest name I can think of that any of them picked up was Plaxico Burress, and at the time the Giants picked him up, he had been a problem in Pittsburgh, and certainly wasn't viewed anywhere close the the way the guys you mention were.

Not the only way to build a franchise, but it's the only way that's created 7 of the last 9 NFL Champions.

BullNation4Life
02-25-2010, 01:39 PM
The problem is there's more than one way to build a winning organization, and you seem to think that the Texans choosing to attempt it another way is simply inexcusable. There's no basis to say it can't work.

The Steelers, the Colts, and the Pats have won 7 of the last 9 Super Bowls. Not one of those Super Bowl winning teams relied much at all on high profile Free Agent pickups. In fact that biggest name I can think of that any of them picked up was Plaxico Burress, and at the time the Giants picked him up, he had been a problem in Pittsburgh, and certainly wasn't viewed anywhere close the the way the guys you mention were.

Not the only way to build a franchise, but it's the only way that's created 7 of the last 9 NFL Champions.

Adalius Thomas was a pretty big FA acquisition for the PATs that seems to not be working out now...

but your point is valid.

IDEXAN
02-25-2010, 01:46 PM
12M seems like a godawful amount for Robinson ? But on the other hand if
NOLA pays Bush 8 M in 2010, as the NFL.Network is now reporting, maybe Robinson is worth 12M ?
One is only a reserve running back, while the other is the best corner on his team plus CBs have a higher positional value. Thoughts ?

ChampionTexan
02-25-2010, 01:47 PM
edit

Goatcheese
02-25-2010, 01:52 PM
A guy on HT.com said that he rewatched the MNF game vs. Tenn. Without even watching the game again myself I can tell you that game will give all the reason you need to let Dunta walk.

VY dedicating an entire passing drive to Dunta
Dunta chest bumping an INT.

He allowed 3 receptions for 37 yards the entire game. That's a quality game for anyone not named Asomugha. Even Revis and Woodson had plenty of 30+ yard games.

If your expectation is for him to give up ZERO receptions per game, then you're going to be disappointed in every corner ever to lace 'em up. That is completely unreasonable.

Ask yourself how you would feel if our receivers were held to 3 for 37 by their top corner.

Here is how Darrell Revis fared:

Week 1 HOU 2 for 21
week 2 NEP 4 for 24
week 3 TEN 5 for 64
week 4 NOS 0 for 0
Week 5 MIA 4 for 75
Week 6 BUF 3 for 13
week 7 OAK 2 for 10
week 8 MIA 1 for 15
week10 JAX 2 for 16
week11 NEP 5 for 72
week12 CAR 1 for 5
week13 BUF 3 for 29
week14 TAM 3 for 25
week16 IND 3 for 28
week17 CIN 1 for 16

Thorn
02-25-2010, 01:53 PM
12M seems like a godawful amount for Robinson ? But on the other hand if
NOLA pays Bush 8 M in 2010, as the NFL.Network is now reporting, maybe Robinson is worth 12M ?
One is only a reserve running back, while the other is the best corner on his team plus CBs have a higher positional value. Thoughts ?

My thoughts? It's not my money. I'd not like to see them spend that much on an average CB. If they do and still draft a good one to come along later and the team makes the playoffs, the second guessing will go down some, but it'll never leave.

I got my own ideas (as does everyone else here) on how McNair should spend his money though. As to Reggie Bush, the Saints are fools if they spent a lot of money on Bush. At least Dunta starts, which is more than you can say for Reggie Bust.

Hooston Texan
02-25-2010, 02:18 PM
Adalius Thomas was a pretty big FA acquisition for the PATs that seems to not be working out now...

but your point is valid.

True, but the Patriots have not won a Super Bowl since signing Thomas. He was on the 18-1 team, but his defensive unit could not get the critical stop that would have let them go 19-0.

Since free agency got into full swing in the early 1990s, these are the big time free agents who have won Super Bowls as far as I can tell:
Deion Sanders (with the Niners in 1994 and the Cowboys in 1995)
Reggie White (Packers in 1996)
Plaxico Burress
Drew Brees

Deion probably deserves an asterisk: he selected SF and then Dallas based on likelihood of getting a ring (he later said Al Davis offered him more money). An up-and-coming team like the 2009 Texans would have had no shot at PrimeTime in 1994 and 1995 going against the two dominant franchises (winners of 6 out of 8 Super Bowls between 1988 and 1995) of the day.

So that leaves us with White, Burress and Brees over the past 20 years. If I've missed a big-time free agent signing who went on to win get a ring, fire away.

infantrycak
02-25-2010, 02:25 PM
Super Mario gets it. He is realistic. He is honest. He is objective.

Nice cheap rhetorical tactic. Why don't you throw in his arguments are just too intellectual for most people to understand.

Self-aggrandizing through the compliment of a like minded person.

Signing Haynesworth wouldn't have made us get rid of anyone on our roster and wouldn't have even affected this year's roster.

Given that the Texans ended up with $4 mil in cap space and Albert's cap hit was over $7 mil that statement is incorrect.

The salary cap is a soft cap that can be manipulated if you are just willing to pay the money. Bob isn't willing to spend the money.

It is not a soft cap. There are certain tricks on LTBE and NLTBE bonuses which can be done but they all come down to robbing Peter in one year to pay Paul in another and can't be continued indefinitely.

per game numbers are skewed because he missed half the season. those other guys played 16 games and are in less pass-happy run-deficient offenses.

Yeah right, those less pass happy run deficient offenses known as San Diego and Indy. You know the 31st and 32nd rushing teams.

OD is a good TE, but he is not Top 5. Top 10 for sure. He is close to Top 5 maybe 6th or 7th at best, but he has to show me he can do what he did last year for a whole season before I consider him Top 5.

When he does it for a full year? 2008 5th on receptions, 3rd on yards, 7th on passes over 20, with a 1st down % better than Gates, Witten & Clark.

isn't it 6 RFA tenders per team?

No tenders can be extended to as many RFAs as a team has.

Personally, I blame Kubiak for the PayMeRick blowing up.

There's a shocker. Kubiak failed on his pre-game shoe inspection.

ChampionTexan
02-25-2010, 02:29 PM
True, but the Patriots have not won a Super Bowl since signing Thomas. He was on the 18-1 team, but his defensive unit could not get the critical stop that would have let them go 19-0.

Since free agency got into full swing in the early 1990s, these are the big time free agents who have won Super Bowls as far as I can tell:
Deion Sanders (with the Niners in 1994 and the Cowboys in 1995)
Reggie White (Packers in 1996)
Plaxico Burress
Drew Brees



And while I excluded the Saints from my list in large part due to Brees, keep in mind he was largely viewed as risky at best, and damaged goods at worst by almost every NFL team when he was available. The Saints and the Dolphins are the only teams that made him offers, and Brees himself stated that he didn't feel the Dolphins really believed in him.

I would clearly rank Brees along with Reggie White as the two most impactful free agent pickups since free agency as we know it came about, but he was not exactly viewed like Haynesworth (or Reggie White) was and Peppers is when he was available.

Shaft75
02-25-2010, 02:32 PM
Hey, WTH is up with the people to your left who always seem to be patting opposing players on the back?!?!?! (off topic, I know, but the picture you posted reminded me you sit down there).

The guy that owns those seats sells them to opposing fans. And 50% of the time I try to make sure they never buy those again. Although, I have met some cool people down there.

Hardcore Texan
02-25-2010, 02:34 PM
The guy that owns those seats sells them to opposing fans. And 50% of the time I try to make sure they never buy those again. Although, I have met some cool people down there.

I would love to sit in the front row just once.

Shaft75
02-25-2010, 02:39 PM
I would love to sit in the front row just once.

Well, there might be a way. There is always a wedding, vacation, work issue, or some other bullshart event that takes away a game day. I really hate it, but whatever.

infantrycak
02-25-2010, 02:43 PM
And while I excluded the Saints from my list in large part due to Brees, keep in mind he was largely viewed as risky at best, and damaged goods at worst by almost every NFL team when he was available. The Saints and the Dolphins are the only teams that made him offers, and Brees himself stated that he didn't feel the Dolphins really believed in him.

I would clearly rank Brees along with Reggie White as the two most impactful free agent pickups since free agency as we know it came about, but he was not exactly viewed like Haynesworth (or Reggie White) was and Peppers is when he was available.

Something else to remember is the cap didn't go into effect until 1994 and lots of teams got into big cap trouble signing splashy free agents because it took them a decade to learn to operate within the system. Hence all the big cap dump players for the Texans expansion draft.

beerlover
02-25-2010, 02:52 PM
can you name the only player currently under contract in 2010 who was drafted by Casserly?

2005 1 1 16 16 Travis Johnson DT Florida State
2 3 9 73 Vernand Morency RB Oklahoma State
3 4 13 114 Jerome Mathis WR Hampton
4 5 15 151 Drew Hodgdon C Arizona State
5 6 14 188 Ceandris Brown DB Louisiana-Lafayette
6 7 13 227 Kenneth Pettway LB Grambling State
2004 1 1 10 10 Dunta Robinson DB South Carolina
2 1 27 27 Jason Babin DE Western Michigan
3 4 26 122 Glenn Earl DB Notre Dame
4 6 5 170 Vontez Duff DB Notre Dame
5 6 10 175 Jammal Lord DB Nebraska
6 6 35 200 Charlie Anderson LB Mississippi
7 7 9 210 Raheem Orr DE Rutgers
8 7 10 211 Sloan Thomas WR Texas
9 7 47 248 B.J. Symons QB Texas Tech
2003s 1 2 0 0 Tony Hollings RB Georgia Tech
2003 1 1 3 3 Andre Johnson WR Miami (FL)
2 2 9 41 Ben Joppru TE Michigan
3 3 3 67 Antwan Peek LB Cincinnati
4 3 11 75 Seth Wand T Northwest Missouri State
5 3 24 88 Dave Ragone QB Louisville
6 4 4 101 Domanick Davis RB Louisiana State
7 6 19 192 Drew Henson QB Michigan
8 6 41 214 Keith Wright DT Missouri
9 7 3 217 Curry Burns DB Louisville
10 7 19 233 Chance Pearce C Texas A&M
2002s 1 6 0 0 Milford Brown G Florida State
2002 1 1 1 1 David Carr QB Fresno State
2 2 1 33 Jabar Gaffney WR Florida
3 2 18 50 Chester Pitts G San Diego State
4 3 1 66 Fred Weary C Tennessee
5 3 18 83 Charles Hill DT Maryland
6 4 1 99 Jonathan Wells RB Ohio State
7 5 1 136 Jarrod Baxter RB New Mexico
8 5 18 153 Ramone Walker DB Pittsburgh
9 6 1 173 Howard Faggins DB Kansas State
10 6 18 190 Howard Green DT Louisiana State
11 7 18 229 Greg White DE Minnesota
12 7 50 261 Ahmad Miller DT UNLV

Andre Johnson. that's right, what a track record. parting ways with Dunta leaves one player to show four years of draft picks, three top 10's, a #13 & all other associated rounds combined :strangle:

nero THE zero
02-25-2010, 02:59 PM
how is letting go of your #1 CB who was drafted #10 overall building from the ground up?

how is letting him go rewarding your own players?

staying patient and loyal? this isn't Boy Scouts. it's the NFL. Didn't anyone learn anything from the handling of Carr?

As for the Steelers comparison, it is a disservice to the Steelers to compare them with us. You can't model yourself after a team like the Steelers with words. You have to do it through astute drafting, having success, and building a tradition of winning....trust me, if the Undercover Brother Tomlin doesn't make the playoffs next year, he will be gone. There are already Steelers faithful calling for his head one year removed from a championship.

Tomlin is cursed with the whole Switzer curse. You win but then you are told you won with another coach's team. Then you have a few down years because of injury and you are fired.

1. I'm not disputing, nor discussing Dunta. I'm indifferent as to whether we sign(ed) him or not, so that's a non-starter. I am specifically replying to your ubiqitous attacks on the Texans not going after every overpaid big-name on the FA market.

2. I'm not making a qualititative judgment on McNair's approach, simply bringing to light that just because his approach is different than yours would be doesn't mean his objective isn't the same as yours would be.

BigBull17
02-25-2010, 03:00 PM
Quick... Name a good play that Dunta made during the 2009 season.

...

...

...

He picked off Vince on Monday Night Football to secure the win and a play-off spot....Damn, he dropped it, didn't he...He refused to sign the contract we offered. That's the best move he made for Texans fans all year.

Shaft75
02-25-2010, 03:08 PM
He picked off Vince on Monday Night Football to secure the win and a play-off spot....Damn, he dropped it, didn't he...He refused to sign the contract we offered. That's the best move he made for Texans fans all year.

LostBoy pointed this out in another thread...

Remember the celebration incident? When Manning hosed the ball downfield for a 30 yard gain and Robinson was still showboating. Good riddance.:strangle:

El Tejano
02-25-2010, 03:10 PM
He allowed 3 receptions for 37 yards the entire game. That's a quality game for anyone not named Asomugha. Even Revis and Woodson had plenty of 30+ yard games.

If your expectation is for him to give up ZERO receptions per game, then you're going to be disappointed in every corner ever to lace 'em up. That is completely unreasonable.

Ask yourself how you would feel if our receivers were held to 3 for 37 by their top corner.

Here is how Darrell Revis fared:

Week 1 HOU 2 for 21
week 2 NEP 4 for 24
week 3 TEN 5 for 64
week 4 NOS 0 for 0
Week 5 MIA 4 for 75
Week 6 BUF 3 for 13
week 7 OAK 2 for 10
week 8 MIA 1 for 15
week10 JAX 2 for 16
week11 NEP 5 for 72
week12 CAR 1 for 5
week13 BUF 3 for 29
week14 TAM 3 for 25
week16 IND 3 for 28
week17 CIN 1 for 16

He also dropped a sure interception and got burnt for a TD in basically back to back possessions. Reevis, Asomugha, and Woodson all make that play.

I'm just saying. IF he makes that INT and we beat Tenn on MNF which eventually helps us get into the playoffs, Duntal looks a little better. But after the crying, and then you don't make the sure plays, you gots to go.

Hardcore Texan
02-25-2010, 03:12 PM
Well, there might be a way. There is always a wedding, vacation, work issue, or some other bullshart event that takes away a game day. I really hate it, but whatever.

I got two seats in Sect 115 Row J, would love to swap someday.

Shaft75
02-25-2010, 03:17 PM
I got two seats in Sect 115 Row J, would love to swap someday.

where's 115?

Hardcore Texan
02-25-2010, 03:19 PM
where's 115?

NEZ, right next to the BullPen, BP is 116 & 117.

barrett
02-25-2010, 03:21 PM
how is letting go of your #1 CB who was drafted #10 overall building from the ground up?

how is letting him go rewarding your own players?

staying patient and loyal? this isn't Boy Scouts. it's the NFL. Didn't anyone learn anything from the handling of Carr?

As for the Steelers comparison, it is a disservice to the Steelers to compare them with us. You can't model yourself after a team like the Steelers with words. You have to do it through astute drafting, having success, and building a tradition of winning....trust me, if the Undercover Brother Tomlin doesn't make the playoffs next year, he will be gone. There are already Steelers faithful calling for his head one year removed from a championship.

Tomlin is cursed with the whole Switzer curse. You win but then you are told you won with another coach's team. Then you have a few down years because of injury and you are fired.

I think you find with alot of the teams that we try to model ourselves after as an organization they often times let picks walk when the money becomes unrealistic. They resign big time playmakers to big time contracts (Rothlisburger & Hampton today come to mind) but they will let a guy walk if it gets stupid. I think the Texans did exactly that last year. They offered what they believed was a big time contract to what they believed was a big time player. He didn't play as well as they had hoped and I think they felt like after a season back from injury they knew better what they had as well as knowing what he was going to be asking for and it was realistic to cut talks and move on. Why waist time on a deal that it's realistic.

That's the kind of things that I am guessing those organizations go through as well.

The teams I believe we model ourselves after organizationally speaking are Pittsburgh, New England and Indianapolis.

They pay key performers that are interested in the best interest of the team. (Manning, Brady etc. Guys that are willing to structure a contract reasonably and they let the stupid money guys go because it's not good business and in turn not good football because of how it effects the other players.

You don't pay guys that aren't going to be getting better either.

Goatcheese
02-25-2010, 03:21 PM
LostBoy pointed this out in another thread...

Remember the celebration incident? When Manning hosed the ball downfield for a 30 yard gain and the whole defense was still showboating. Good riddance.:strangle:

Added a little intellectual honesty to your post.

I like how you give Cushing, Pollard, Ryans and Williams a pass but dump on Robinson just because you don't like him. Nevermind that he was one of the few defenders to actually do his job on that play.

Malloy
02-25-2010, 03:24 PM
Is he gone yet?

Mike Kerns
02-25-2010, 03:25 PM
Lance Z says we may get some good compensatory picks for Dunta:

I spoke with an agent who told me that his best guess is that when Dunta signs with another team, the Texans will get a 3rd or 4th at worst.

That would be a compensatory pick at the end of one of those rounds

That'd be nice.

rmartin65
02-25-2010, 03:26 PM
Lance Z says we may get some good compensatory picks for Dunta:



That'd be nice.

Unfortunately, I dont think it will be in this upcoming draft. I think it is for the 2011 draft. Somebody correct me if I am wrong.

Shaft75
02-25-2010, 03:29 PM
He allowed 3 receptions for 37 yards the entire game.

Where's your evidence of that?

WolverineFan
02-25-2010, 03:33 PM
Unfortunately, I dont think it will be in this upcoming draft. I think it is for the 2011 draft. Somebody correct me if I am wrong.

I'm not positive either but I think it's for this upcoming draft.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_Draft#Compensatory_picks

Of course Wiki isn't completely reliable but I do think this is the correct description.

Hervoyel
02-25-2010, 03:37 PM
Added a little intellectual honesty to your post.

I like how you give Cushing, Pollard, Ryans and Williams a pass but dump on Robinson just because you don't like him. Nevermind that he was one of the few defenders to actually do his job on that play.

What's the difference between each and every one of those players and Dunta last season?

Cushing, Pollard, Ryans, and yes, even Williams all had better seasons than Dunta so naturally they're going to catch less heat over that. Hopefully they all (Dunta included) learned a very important lesson from that play.

Maybe Dunta can apply that lesson someday in the future while playing for another team for the kind of money he wants. Reminds me of Chris Dishman taunting with an interception and fumbling it before crossing the goal line (not at all uncommon). I hated him for that but he didn't do that silly crap again.

It's all good. A win-win situation if you ask me.

Mike Kerns
02-25-2010, 03:46 PM
Unfortunately, I dont think it will be in this upcoming draft. I think it is for the 2011 draft. Somebody correct me if I am wrong.

Lance Z just added:

in 2011...

HuttoKarl
02-25-2010, 03:52 PM
I'm not positive either but I think it's for this upcoming draft.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_Draft#Compensatory_picks

Of course Wiki isn't completely reliable but I do think this is the correct description.

They're awarded for free agent losses from the previous year, so losing Dunta could net a pick in the 2011 draft.

Double Barrel
02-25-2010, 04:07 PM
He picked off Vince on Monday Night Football to secure the win and a play-off spot....Damn, he dropped it, didn't he...He refused to sign the contract we offered. That's the best move he made for Texans fans all year.

2nd tier CB, without a doubt.

And that's the sad state of our secondary, that a 2nd tier CB is our best CB. :choke:

I think most of the pro-D.Rob crowd are overlooking one simple fact: he has shown all signs that he doesn't want to be Houston Texan. Minor detail, though... :ok:

Dutchrudder
02-25-2010, 04:08 PM
I'm not positive either but I think it's for this upcoming draft.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_Draft#Compensatory_picks

Of course Wiki isn't completely reliable but I do think this is the correct description.

It's based on the number of free agents lost in the previous off-season versus the free agents signed and the value of those signed or lost. Compensatory picks are awarded the year AFTER they free agency season. 2010 comp. picks are based on last years free agent market, so anything from Dunta would be a 2011 pick. The picks are announced towards the end of March and the evaluation is done by a proprietary formula. The formula is not public but speculation says that it is largely based on the free agents new contract value.

There can only be up to 32 compensatory picks given out in each draft. If less than 32 picks are given out, then the remaining will be awarded based on draft position starting from the top and proceeding down until they reach 32. This is also known as a 'supplemental 8th round'.

Scenarios:
So for example, let's assume Dunta is worth a 3rd round pick and Kevin Walter is evaluated to be a 5th round pick. (I know he's worth more...) They both sign with teams other than the Texans.

Let's say the Texans signed a 4th round value player from another team and no one else. The Texans would be awarded one 3rd round compensatory pick in 2011, because the signing of the 4th would cancel the 5th.

If the Texans signed 3rd round and 5th round value players through free agency, they would be awarded no picks at all because they are of equal or greater value to those free agents lost.

If the Texans signed a 3rd and 6th round value players the Texans would be eligible for a net value compensatory pick because they signed players are slightly less value than the ones they lost. This would likely be a 7th round pick and possibly a Mr. Irrelevant. However, it all depends on what other teams qualify as well, and how many other compensatory picks are given out ahead of them.

--------

This is my understanding of the way it works, but I'm by no means an expert, so correct me if I am wrong. :D

Goatcheese
02-25-2010, 04:21 PM
Where's your evidence of that?

Watch the game? I know, crazy, outlandishly, insane idea.

What's the difference between each and every one of those players and Dunta last season?

The fans love them, and make excuses for their screw ups. That's the difference.

Cushing, Pollard, Ryans, and yes, even Williams all had better seasons than Dunta so naturally they're going to catch less heat over that. Hopefully they all (Dunta included) learned a very important lesson from that play.

Maybe Dunta can apply that lesson someday in the future while playing for another team for the kind of money he wants. Reminds me of Chris Dishman taunting with an interception and fumbling it before crossing the goal line (not at all uncommon). I hated him for that but he didn't do that silly crap again.

I see, so they make the exact same mistake, on the exact same play, and only one of them gets bashed for it. That makes a lot of sense. NOT.

It's all good. A win-win situation if you ask me.

We lost our starting corner in an uncapped season for no reason except to spare McNair's pocket book, and we gained... Oh that's right, we didn't gain anything. We just lost our starting corner. I'm seeing a loss there, and no win.

At best we get a 3rd round compensatory pick around #100 in 2011, and that's only if we don't sign a significant free agent. If we sign somebody we get nothing for losing D-Rob.

Hervoyel
02-25-2010, 04:31 PM
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc272/Hervoyel/judgedredd.jpg

I knew you'd say that :)

infantrycak
02-25-2010, 05:07 PM
Lance Z says we may get some good compensatory picks for Dunta:

That'd be nice.

Unfortunately, I dont think it will be in this upcoming draft. I think it is for the 2011 draft. Somebody correct me if I am wrong.

Yup 2011 and you can't just look at who we lose. Compensatory picks are made on a net loss basis so say you bring in a player with a similar contract as the one Dunta gets then there is no net loss and no pick or a very low one.

Shaft75
02-25-2010, 05:54 PM
Watch the game? I know, crazy, outlandishly, insane idea.

Dude I was at the game. The only td we allowed through the air was Young to Britt, and guess who was covering Britt... Here is the highlight for reference Britt scores on DUNTA (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009112300/2009/REG11/titans@texans#tab:watch) So please tell me where I missed the boat. He also dropped a gift INT that would have turned the game around. What game were you watching Mr. smarty pants?

The fans love them, and make excuses for their screw ups. That's the difference.

They are better players at their positions. That's why they get all of the hype.

I see, so they make the exact same mistake, on the exact same play, and only one of them gets bashed for it. That makes a lot of sense. NOT.

Like I said, just go ahead and forget that then. I see your point. HOWEVER, quit the using the expression "not". The early 90's have looooooong been over with.

We lost our starting corner in an uncapped season for no reason except to spare McNair's pocket book, and we gained... Oh that's right, we didn't gain anything. We just lost our starting corner. I'm seeing a loss there, and no win.

The guy didn't want to be here and we're better off without him. Let's find someone that doesn't have such an inflated view of their own self worth. Him telling himself he's worth top 5 money is like you telling yourself that your argument is legit. You need to step outside of yourself and find an ounce of logic.

At best we get a 3rd round compensatory pick around #100 in 2011, and that's only if we don't sign a significant free agent. If we sign somebody we get nothing for losing D-Rob.

We get to move on. That's worth it in my opinion.

Goatcheese
02-25-2010, 08:12 PM
Dude I was at the game. The only td we allowed through the air was Young to Britt, and guess who was covering Britt... Here is the highlight for reference Britt scores on DUNTA (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009112300/2009/REG11/titans@texans#tab:watch) So please tell me where I missed the boat. He also dropped a gift INT that would have turned the game around. What game were you watching Mr. smarty pants?

And? That was 1 of the 3 receptions he allowed.

They are better players at their positions. That's why they get all of the hype.

So you're saying it doesn't matter when they screw up because they're better players? :mcnugget:

Were you on the OJ Simpson jury?

Like I said, just go ahead and forget that then. I see your point. HOWEVER, quit the using the expression "not". The early 90's have looooooong been over with.

I'm bringing it back. Retro is in! :fingergun:

The guy didn't want to be here and we're better off without him. Let's find someone that doesn't have such an inflated view of their own self worth. Him telling himself he's worth top 5 money is like you telling yourself that your argument is legit. You need to step outside of yourself and find an ounce of logic.

:mcnugget:

I would tell you this was stupid, but you probably already knew that.

We get to move on. That's worth it in my opinion.

Move on to... an empty roster spot and a gaping hole that now has to be filled by a high draft pick.

Yeah, that's a real win. :rolleyes:

Pantherstang84
02-25-2010, 08:39 PM
Dude. :slapfight:

Texan4Ever
02-25-2010, 08:44 PM
Let Dunta go, aside from his rookie season, he hasn't done much. The Detroit Lions fans seem to want him and consider hima "shut down corner" check out The Lions Fanatics message board.

Do we get draft picks if a team signs him, any comp picks for us?

steelbtexan
02-25-2010, 08:51 PM
SH I repped Super M

I didn't want Dunta re-signed. He was not worth the $. I wouldn't re-sign OD. With the $ saved I would make a run at Peppers.

Nero was talking about McNair and your philosophy not being the same. I know this my kid was in 1st grade when the Texans started playing football. They may make the playoffs by the time he graduates.

McNair has never paid top $ for his own guys (HWNSNBM excluded) much less bring in top tier FA's.

I went to the Arizona game last year and got a call from a friend that was in a club in Houston that Sunday night. He said Mario and the veteran leader A.Smith were in the club. That gave me a case of the warm fuzzies.

The only way to get McNairs attention is to stop going to the games. That affects the bottom line. Unfortunately that makes fed up fans bad fans in some peoples eyes.

Brisco_County
02-26-2010, 12:11 AM
SH I repped Super M

I didn't want Dunta re-signed. He was not worth the $. I wouldn't re-sign OD. With the $ saved I would make a run at Peppers.



It amazes me what some people on this board say.

Owen Daniels was in the top 10 of ALL receivers in the NFL last season before his injury. That's extremely rare for a TE. Of course you re-sign him. He hasn't earned the long term contract this season, but when he's due, he gets signed.

And Peppers is a 3-4 OLB. Different athlete, different skills.

Blake
02-26-2010, 07:42 AM
It amazes me what some people on this board say.

Owen Daniels was in the top 10 of ALL receivers in the NFL last season before his injury. That's extremely rare for a TE. Of course you re-sign him. He hasn't earned the long term contract this season, but when he's due, he gets signed.

And Peppers is a 3-4 OLB. Different athlete, different skills.

Hey Brisco. Answer this for me. If you give OD his nice fat multi-year huge signing bonus contract and he has a down year after his knee injury, or gets injured again, are you going to ask for some of that money back?

Or are you going to wish you waited a year to see how Owen comes back from the injury since he was already under contract anyways?

HoustonFrog
02-26-2010, 08:02 AM
And? That was 1 of the 3 receptions he allowed.

So you're saying it doesn't matter when they screw up because they're better players? :mcnugget:

Were you on the OJ Simpson jury?

I'm bringing it back. Retro is in! :fingergun:

:mcnugget:

I would tell you this was stupid, but you probably already knew that.

Move on to... an empty roster spot and a gaping hole that now has to be filled by a high draft pick.

Yeah, that's a real win. :rolleyes:

You sure like to smart off and roll your eyes alot but you never respond to real facts or real stats. You make up your own..and then try and use put downs in order to try and prove your posts worth. It's not effective. Let's go back to page 7 again. Maybe you can study the stats and then make a valid argument.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1371003&postcount=121

So your one stat trumps all my stats and my source? I'm not even sure of the source of your 25%. Maybe Quin gives a little bigger cushion and doesn't get burned as much. The point you missed completely is that Quin had similar or better stats in areas and yet Dunta is allegedly this top corner. BTW, profootballfocus uses a ton of things to come up with their rankings. Reeves was 41st, Quinn 74th and Dunta 98 to end the year. Those include these stats...

Dunta 594 yards, 11.0 average per game, 180 yards after catch and 3 TDs
Quin 587 yards, 11.5 average per game, 241 yards after catch and 1 TD.

So where is the big difference?

http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=CB&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1

HuttoKarl
02-26-2010, 08:48 AM
Peppers will not be a Texan. It's just not going to happen. If we're going to spend a ton of money, it would be better spent on shipping out some picks and picking up a certain Oakland CB's insane 16 million dollar contract.

Second Honeymoon
02-26-2010, 09:47 AM
lets try and keep things civil.

one group of fans don't mind losing their #1 cornerback
one group of fans have a problem with losing their #1 cornerback

and before you start bringing up how much he costs (reported $12 million to franchise him for 2010) remember these FACTS.

a.) FACT: There is no salary cap in 2010. Thus his $12 million doesn't matter.

b.) FACT: For those thinking that McNair is going to spend that money elsewhere. You are wrong. He has already stated that the Texans will not be a big player in Free Agency.

c.) FACT: He wants to continue to build through the draft, even though Pitts and Dunta were both through the draft and we are letting them go, even though they are talented and have value. So much for 'building through the draft'. OPINION: He must really think his fans are that stupid to believe that load of mularkey. Building through the draft is codeword for 'we are too cheap to steal other team's players away and we are too cheap to prevent other team's from stealing ours away'. I never knew that Bob made his billions selling snake oil.

c.) FACT: Losing your #1 CB is never a good thing. Replacing him with someone from the draft only hurts other positions that need help and only increases the number of question marks on your roster going into 2010.

Those aren't opinions for the most part. Those are facts. There is no salary cap this year, so paying Dunta a one year deal means nothing especially if the money you save isn't used to bring someone else in that wasn't already on our roster. Spending a draft pick on Dunta's replacement is all well and good, but if we keep Dunta then you can spend that pick on another position of urgent need (C, FS, DT)

I understand that some of the fans feel that if they spend money on Dunta, that all of a sudden DeMeco and Owen Daniels are gone, but that isn't the case. They are on our team in 2010 and there probably won't even be football in 2011 and the rules will be different, so we need to do the prudent thing and wait till the rules are established before we pay the guys...just like we should have with Dunta for another year. His play wasn't bad enough that we should just let him walk for nothing. NOTE: If we manage to get a 3rd Rounder for his departure, I will be somewhat placated but I would still rather have Dunta in 2010 than another end of the 3rd Round pick. 3rd Rounder is nice, but Dunta would help us win games in 2010. That is all I care about. WINNING. Screw Bob's pocketbook. He is making money hand over fist.

Please remember the franchise tag is used to help teams keep their good players. Look at the Steelers, they even used their franchise tag on their kicker, Reed. Not because he was great and the cat's meow but because he was coming off a questionable year and they didn't want to sign him to a long term deal BUT they couldn't afford to lose him because he was a known quantity. Thus they did the low risk thing and just tendered him as franchise player. They did this because they went ahead and ponied up the money to keep Casey Hampton a Steeler. Why did they spend money to keep their players, even some who have some question marks ala Dunta? BECAUSE THEY ARE COMMITTED TO WINNING!!!!!

McNair has shown nothing to prove to me he is committed to anything other than the almighty dollar (opinion).

and what are these people complaining about Dunta not showing up for camp last year going to say when Owen doesn't show up for camp? Is OD going to be held to the same 'team first' standards?

Don't get me wrong, Dunta was a ********* for what he wrote on his sneakers in the season opener. He also was beaten on some critical plays but all corners get beaten and he is, without a doubt, our best corner. not saying a whole lot, but you can't lose your #1 corner if you are looking to 'turn the corner'. no pun intended.

This team needs to stop losing players like Dunta and Pitts, and start adding players, even stealing players, from other teams. We gotta stop this and its all because McNair is a cheap SOB. he hasn't spent the big money it takes to compete. That doesn't mean spend the big money in Free Agency every year, but at least keep your own players that you drafted and developed you cheap SOB.

Texan_Bill
02-26-2010, 09:50 AM
Losing your #1 corner is a good thing when your #1 corner should be a nickel at best.

HoustonFrog
02-26-2010, 09:56 AM
lets try and keep things civil.



Right, thus my reply above. I don't like over the top smarmy

Losing your #1 corner is a good thing when your #1 corner should be a nickel at best.

Right. As the stats have shown, losing someone like Reeves may have been bad but fortunately it was just Dunta who was 98 out of 107 CBs.

Texan_Bill
02-26-2010, 09:58 AM
Right, thus my reply above. I don't like smarmy



Right. As the stats have shown, losing someone like Reeves may have been bad but fortunately it was just Dunta who was 98 out of 107 CBs.

Petey Faggins thinks that Dunta sucks. :texanbill:

Second Honeymoon
02-26-2010, 09:59 AM
Peppers will not be a Texan. It's just not going to happen. If we're going to spend a ton of money, it would be better spent on shipping out some picks and picking up a certain Oakland CB's insane 16 million dollar contract.

I would give up our 2nd Rounder and the money it would take to bring Nmandi Asomugha to our team. No doubt. I would easily have traded Dunta and a 2nd Rounder for Nmandi which is, in essence, what that would be.

I just don't see Bob spending the money. PROVE ME WRONG, BOB!!!

HELP US WIN!!

Second Honeymoon
02-26-2010, 10:03 AM
Right, thus my reply above. I don't like over the top smarmy



Right. As the stats have shown, losing someone like Reeves may have been bad but fortunately it was just Dunta who was 98 out of 107 CBs.

Frog,

Your just fine, HF. You are knowledgeable and a great fan and even when I disagree with you, I respect your opinion because its based on solid logic and your own beliefs. Same with TexanBill. I see some of your points, but I guess I am more of a bottom line guy. We didn't improve this week. In fact, we took major steps backwards especially after losing Pitts. I want to start taking steps forward. I guess that is what I am getting at. If there was a year that would have been easy to keep Dunta and just pony up the money worry-free it was 2010.

Why hasn't Joe Texan weighed in on this? I know he wants to win. Is losing Dunta and Pitts in one week going to make us a better team, JT? I can't see how we are a better team. No way in hell.

Second Honeymoon
02-26-2010, 10:05 AM
Petey Faggins thinks that Dunta sucks. :texanbill:

ok, now. you have crossed the line :foottap:

Texan_Bill
02-26-2010, 10:09 AM
ok, now. you have crossed the line :foottap:

:lol: I know.. That was a bit too much.

HoustonFrog
02-26-2010, 10:09 AM
Frog,

Your just fine, HF. You are knowledgeable and a great fan and even when I disagree with you, I respect your opinion because its based on solid logic and your own beliefs. Same with TexanBill. I see some of your points, but I guess I am more of a bottom line guy. We didn't improve this week. In fact, we took major steps backwards especially after losing Pitts. I want to start taking steps forward. I guess that is what I am getting at. If there was a year that would have been easy to keep Dunta and just pony up the money worry-free it was 2010.

Why hasn't Joe Texan weighed in on this? I know he wants to win. Is losing Dunta and Pitts in one week going to make us a better team, JT? I can't see how we are a better team. No way in hell.

Just so you know my comment wasn't towards you. It was Goat and the 2 posts I have seen that involve a myriad of eye rolling emoticons and smart aleck comments. You and I are pretty much on the same page when it comes to many things, as you know. :) I just think this move is one where, despite the talent level or lack thereof at the position, it is addiction by subtraction. I think Dunta's skills had diminished and his attitude had worn thin.

BIG TORO
02-26-2010, 10:11 AM
I would give up our 2nd Rounder and the money it would take to bring Nmandi Asomugha to our team. No doubt. I would easily have traded Dunta and a 2nd Rounder for Nmandi which is, in essence, what that would be.

I just don't see Bob spending the money. PROVE ME WRONG, BOB!!!

HELP US WIN!!

Is it 16 million to bring him in?

infantrycak
02-26-2010, 10:14 AM
Is it 16 million to bring him in?

About $14.5 mil. Basically it is a one year deal. After that there is a team option to retain him by paying the higher of a little under $17 mil or the franchise amount for QBs. There is also a clause that he cannot be franchised. And of course there is also whatever draft pick compensation the Raiders will want.

Joe Texan
02-26-2010, 10:23 AM
Losing Dunta was like getting Cured of aids in the corner back area.
Dunta was a self centered, it is all for me, Pay me Rick, douche bag since you asked me to chime in. He was bad for team morale, he was a poor leader, He was a sorry Corner back. He should have gotten league minimum and been suspended for what he did at the start of last season but BOB and Gary gave the little weasle a chance to shine. Well he blew that chance and now he can sit in hopes of finding a team that wants to pay his ass 10 times his worth. I have full confidence that Bob Smithiak will address this vacancy and will fill the void. From what your saying SH I doubt I could stay on board with your knee jerk decisions, have some patience this is a long offseason.

I have nothing but good things to say for Chester, He is a great guy who has given this team all he could, I am sorry he got injured and I wish him well.
Thank You Chester for your commitment to our growing team.

BIG TORO
02-26-2010, 10:33 AM
About $14.5 mil. Basically it is a one year deal. After that there is a team option to retain him by paying the higher of a little under $17 mil or the franchise amount for QBs. There is also a clause that he cannot be franchised. And of course there is also whatever draft pick compensation the Raiders will want.

He is good, but that is alot of money.

I dont know if he is worth that much!

Shaft75
02-26-2010, 10:39 AM
Just sat down to my pc... What did I miss? :evil:

FirstTexansFan
02-26-2010, 10:40 AM
Just sat down to my pc... What did I miss? :evil:


Just the FACTS Shaft....just the FACTS :)

Shaft75
02-26-2010, 10:42 AM
Just the FACTS Shaft....just the FACTS :)

It seems that some posters think that, but whaddaya gonna do??

steelbtexan
02-26-2010, 10:42 AM
I would give up $14.5 a 1st and a 4th for AO and Bush.

The $ can come from trading OD and Duntas $. The added benefit in this deal is you probably can get a 2nd rder for OD.

OD's great and everything but nobody knows how he is going to come back from his ACL injury. As much as some on this MB try to down play it an ACL injury is a serious thing.

If trading OD helped land AO I'm all in. Give me a sure thing over a hopefully/maybe any day.

They made the right call on letting Dunta walk. IMO

SH you know where I stand on unclcle BoB and his penny penching ways.

Shaft75
02-26-2010, 10:45 AM
And? That was 1 of the 3 receptions he allowed.



So you're saying it doesn't matter when they screw up because they're better players? :mcnugget:

Were you on the OJ Simpson jury?



I'm bringing it back. Retro is in! :fingergun:



:mcnugget:

I would tell you this was stupid, but you probably already knew that.



Move on to... an empty roster spot and a gaping hole that now has to be filled by a high draft pick.

Yeah, that's a real win. :rolleyes:

Wow, just wow. That's all I get for taking the time to back my stuff up with some decent semi-lengthy rhetoric? A couple of smart ass responses with no substance. GEESH

Shaft75
02-26-2010, 10:46 AM
I would give up $14.5 a 1st and a 4th for AO and Bush.

The $ can come from trading OD and Duntas $. The added benefit in this deal is you probably can get a 2nd rder for OD.

OD's great and everything but nobody knows how he is going to come back from his ACL injury. As much as some on this MB try to down play it an ACL injury is a serious thing.

If trading OD helped land AO I'm all in. Give me a sure thing over a hopefully/maybe any day.

They made the right call on letting Dunta walk. IMO

SH you know where I stand on unclcle BoB and his penny penching ways.

Sorry but who is AO?

HOU-TEX
02-26-2010, 10:48 AM
Wow, just wow. That's all I get for taking the time to back my stuff up with some decent semi-lengthy rhetoric? A couple of smart ass responses with no substance. GEESH

Come on, Shaft. Practically this entire thread is filled with BS and horrible logic. I just thank the good Lord the Texans don't listen to their fans when it comes to player personel.

Shaft75
02-26-2010, 10:51 AM
Come on, Shaft. Practically this entire thread is filled with BS and horrible logic. I just thank the good Lord the Texans don't listen to their fans when it comes to player personel.

True dat about the thread.

They can listen to us though. Just not SH, SM, GC, any others?

BIG TORO
02-26-2010, 10:53 AM
I am glad Bob is smart about his money!

I don't like teams who just shell out money, and feel like money is the way to a championship.

I rather our team win a championship through smart moves like the Dunta move, Hard work and good coaching.

steelbtexan
02-26-2010, 10:56 AM
He is good, but that is alot of money.

I dont know if he is worth that much!

That's what the cost of getting the top tier FA is

If you want to win you gottta pay the price. So far uncle BoB has been unwilling to pay the price. Hopefully he changes his ways or this franchise will end up like the Cardinals. 50 yrs before they even reach a SB.

I think Smithiak will sign a 2nd tier FA like Bodden to an over inflated contract like A.Smiths. Instead of going after a tier 1 guy like AO. Atleast this is what their history says they wil do in FA.

Shaft75
02-26-2010, 10:57 AM
That's what the cost of getting the top tier FA is

If you want to win you gottta pay the price. So far uncle BoB has been unwilling to pay the price. Hopefully he changes his ways or this franchise will end up like the Cardinals. 50 yrs before they even reach a SB.

I think Smithiak will sign a 2nd tier FA like Bodden to an over inflated contract like A.Smiths. Instead of going after a tier 1 guy like AO. Atleast this is what their history says they wil do in FA.

Seriously man, AO?? Who is it?

Goatcheese
02-26-2010, 10:58 AM
You sure like to smart off and roll your eyes alot but you never respond to real facts or real stats. You make up your own..and then try and use put downs in order to try and prove your posts worth. It's not effective. Let's go back to page 7 again. Maybe you can study the stats and then make a valid argument.

Maybe because the stats you picked don't provide an accurate picture.

If you want to compare D-Rob to Quin then you have to do it on a snap by snap basis, not just looking at total numbers. A guy who played 5 snaps and didn't give up any receptions is not the greatest corner to ever take the field. He's a bum who couldn't get on the field.

above average
average
bellow average

Yards allowed per play in coverage
Dunta Robinson 0.88 <--- here's your winner
Glover Quin 1.18

Percentage of plays in coverage they allowed a reception.
Dunta Robinson 8.6% <--- here's your winner
Glover Guin 10.3%

Percentage of plays in coverage they were thrown at.
Dunta Robinson 13.1% <--- here's your winner
Glover Quin 16.1

Yards per reception
Dunta Robinson 10.3 <--- here's your winner
Glover Quin 11.5

Yards per attempt
Dunta Robinson 6.7 <--- here's your winner
Glover Quin 7.3

Completion percentage against
Dunta Robinson 65.4%
Glover Quin 63.8% <--- here's your winner

Despite D-Rob covering the other team's #1 and Quin covering the #2 or slot, Robinson still comes out ahead in almost every category.

It isn't even close.


Right, thus my reply above. I don't like over the top smarmy



Right. As the stats have shown, losing someone like Reeves may have been bad but fortunately it was just Dunta who was 98 out of 107 CBs.

98th out of 107 corners based completely on an opinion based ratings system.

"I thought Petey looked good getting torched on that 98 yard TD. I'll give him +2"

That's what their ratings amount to. They are opinions. Opinions are not stats.

JCTexan
02-26-2010, 11:01 AM
Seriously man, AO?? Who is it?

I think he's talking about Nnamdi Asomugha. I don't know what AO means though.

HOU-TEX
02-26-2010, 11:02 AM
Seriously man, AO?? Who is it?

He means Nnamdi Asomugha

People wanting to trade half our draft, OD and pay him 14 million a year = Poor logic and stupid

BigBull17
02-26-2010, 11:02 AM
Seriously man, AO?? Who is it?

Think he ment Asmoguelkjsavb from Oakland. So NO, not AO

HuttoKarl
02-26-2010, 11:04 AM
Seriously man, AO?? Who is it?

Looking at the nfl free agent list maybe this?

Adewale Ogunleye, Chicago Bears (33)
Ogunleye started the first 14 games at left defensive end for the Bears this season, before sitting out the final two. He notched 6.5 sacks on the season, breaking last year’s total of 5. He led the team in that category. With the sudden and tragic loss of Gaines Adams, the Bears should have more incentive to keep Ogunleye around until they can find some consistent production from the position.

ChampionTexan
02-26-2010, 11:05 AM
he means nnamdi asomugha

people wanting to trade half our draft, od and pay him 14 million for one year = poor logic and stupid

fify
(After the first year it's most likely tied to top QB salaries, and since both P. Manning and Brady will have new deals by then (maybe Brees too), it's gonna be one big number).

Dutchrudder
02-26-2010, 11:05 AM
Think he ment Asmoguelkjsavb from Oakland. So NO, not AO

Yeah, but the pronunciation of it is: "Na-ma-dee Aus-O-moy-uh". So "AO" is kind of an abbreviated phonetic of his last name. When I read "NO" i think New Orleans, but whatever. If we get him, I will be impressed.

HuttoKarl
02-26-2010, 11:05 AM
He means Nnamdi Asomugha

People wanting to trade half our draft, OD and pay him 14 million a year = Poor logic and stupid

Oh...he'd make more sense than O-Gun. haha

It's just not realistic. If we were to give up a bunch of stuff for a defensive back, trade up and get Berry and pray for some production from what would be left of our draft (maybe a couple late round picks).

steelbtexan
02-26-2010, 11:10 AM
I had Amobi on the brain for whatever reason. I meant the CB from the Raiders.

Hervoyel
02-26-2010, 11:11 AM
SH

You keep saying that we've lost our "#1 Cornerback" and it forces me to reflect and then ask "By what measure?"

Was Dunta our #1 because he played better than anyone else on our roster? I don't believe that's accurate. profootballfocus.com has him rated 98th (as has been covered widely already in this thread) behind two other Texans corners neither of who are fan favorites. One is a rookie.

Is he our #1 corner because of his stats? Led the corners in tackles? Nope, that was Glover Quin, the rookie. Led the corners in interceptions? Nope, that was Jaques Reeves with a whopping 1 pick. Passes defensed? Nope, Quin again with 9. Penalties then, maybe he committed fewer penalties than the rest of them? No, that wasn't it either.

The whole focus of your anger about this seems to be funneled through the idea that we let our #1 cornerback go but damn man, if your #1 cornerback can't even make a case for why he should be considered your #1 cornerback then what in the hell are we talking about anyway?

So that was a down year? He's really much better than that but didn't show it?

Because why exactly? Because he didn't come to camp to make a point? Then he's stupid and is a stupid cornerback really an asset? Dunta played like shit last year by almost every legitimate measurable standard and he did it because he either couldn't play any better or wouldn't play any better. Neither one of those is a good road to be going down.

If he's lost a step as a result of injury then is he really our #1 cornerback?
If he couldn't do it because he sat out then is he really our #1 cornerback?
If he just sandbagged and pouted his way through a shitty year is he really our #1 cornerback?

Before we get all upset about what we're losing lets at least try to be honest about what he's worth. In this scenario Dunta is just getting his usual pass because he was our 2004 first round pick and had a good rookie year opposite Aaron Glenn.

BIG TORO
02-26-2010, 11:13 AM
He means Nnamdi Asomugha

People wanting to trade half our draft, OD and pay him 14 million a year = Poor logic and stupid

Thats my thought too!

I dont believe in the Al Davis or Jerry Jones way of building a football team!

Hardcore Texan
02-26-2010, 11:14 AM
Is it safe to say the state of this thread has approached:

:deadhorse:

steelbtexan
02-26-2010, 11:17 AM
He means Nnamdi Asomugha

People wanting to trade half our draft, OD and pay him 14 million a year = Poor logic and stupid

Stupid

We would have two 2nd rd picks. Can you tell me for sure OD is going to come back and be the player he was? Assuming that he will is short sighted and well Stupid.

I will do alittle mock mock for you after adding NA and Bush

Rd2 Nate Allen S
Rd2 Cam Thomas DT
Rd3 Kyle Calloway OT/OG

Adding those 5 guys would make this team complete. IMHO

Hervoyel
02-26-2010, 11:17 AM
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc272/Hervoyel/internet_white_knight.jpg

DuntaFan1

BIG TORO
02-26-2010, 11:17 AM
Is it safe to say the state of this thread has approached:

:deadhorse:

not yet! :spin:

infantrycak
02-26-2010, 11:22 AM
Can you tell me for sure OD is going to come back and be the player he was?

For sure, of course not. But his game is not built on speed like a CB. OD's game is built on good hands and a great perception of the coverage and finding holes so the likelihood of him recovering is much greater than positions such as RB and CB.

HOU-TEX
02-26-2010, 11:34 AM
Stupid

We would have two 2nd rd picks. Can you tell me for sure OD is going to come back and be the player he was? Assuming that he will is short sighted and well Stupid.

I will do alittle mock mock for you after adding NA and Bush

Rd2 Nate Allen S
Rd2 Cam Thomas DT
Rd3 Kyle Calloway OT/OG

Adding those 5 guys would make this team complete. IMHO

First let me say, we're not going to go after Nnamdi, Peppers or any other player that's going to want a boat load of jack. The owner, GM, coach and their dogs have said this team will be built through the draft while adding veteran FA's for stop-gaps until they can replace them. Yet, we have people like you, SH, etc. that want us to throw all kinds of draft picks and money at top tier players and when we don't spend an ass load on a FA y'all call McNair cheap. Go figure!

When was the last time you heard of a player unable to return from an ACL? An ACL repair usually stronger than it was originally after fully healing. The healing/rehab process does take a while, but OD will be fine. And no, I'm not one that thinks he should get a new deal right now. He needs a "prove it again" year first.

infantrycak
02-26-2010, 11:42 AM
And no, I'm not one that thinks he should get a new deal right now. He needs a "prove it again" year first.

I'd like to see them be creative and give him a new deal but something that protects the team. Offer him the same deal as last year for total compensation but have the guarantees and years conditioned on his play next year at certain defined levels. At least make the offer to show him good faith.

HOU-TEX
02-26-2010, 11:48 AM
I'd like to see them be creative and give him a new deal but something that protects the team. Offer him the same deal as last year for total compensation but have the guarantees and years conditioned on his play next year at certain defined levels. At least make the offer to show him good faith.

I wouldn't be opposed to something like that either. I just think if he truly turned down an offer last year, he wouldn't want to settle for a similar or smaller deal until he's able to prove that he's still a top 5 TE.

But, if it's something similar to what you mentioned....heck yeah.

HoustonFrog
02-26-2010, 12:05 PM
Maybe because the stats you picked don't provide an accurate picture.

If you want to compare D-Rob to Quin then you have to do it on a snap by snap basis, not just looking at total numbers. A guy who played 5 snaps and didn't give up any receptions is not the greatest corner to ever take the field. He's a bum who couldn't get on the field.

above average
average
bellow average

Yards allowed per play in coverage
Dunta Robinson 0.88 <--- here's your winner
Glover Quin 1.18

Percentage of plays in coverage they allowed a reception.
Dunta Robinson 8.6% <--- here's your winner
Glover Guin 10.3%

Percentage of plays in coverage they were thrown at.
Dunta Robinson 13.1% <--- here's your winner
Glover Quin 16.1

Yards per reception
Dunta Robinson 10.3 <--- here's your winner
Glover Quin 11.5

Yards per attempt
Dunta Robinson 6.7 <--- here's your winner
Glover Quin 7.3

Completion percentage against
Dunta Robinson 65.4%
Glover Quin 63.8% <--- here's your winner

Despite D-Rob covering the other team's #1 and Quin covering the #2 or slot, Robinson still comes out ahead in almost every category.

It isn't even close.




98th out of 107 corners based completely on an opinion based ratings system.

"I thought Petey looked good getting torched on that 98 yard TD. I'll give him +2"

That's what their ratings amount to. They are opinions. Opinions are not stats.

You are pencil whipping the numbers and the stats are based on pure yardage, etc, not opinions. It is one of the most repsected sites out there. You are basically making up an argument. Let me switch places with you and be smarmy for a minute. An opinion is something like "I think Dunta sucks." Giving a value system to a stat isn't an opinion when all those value stats are used the same across the board for each player. It's not like they decided to make a statistical analysis site to stick it to Dunta. What is funny is that there are fractions involved in the alleged #1 corner you so covet and a rookie last year. Even in your cherry picking you make my point. And Quin wasn't even as good as Reeves. So how is Dunta #1?

Texan_Bill
02-26-2010, 12:16 PM
He is good, but that is alot of money.

I dont know if he is worth that much!

Does it matter? It's uncapped year. Teams can go out and spend like crazy. Forget about it being a business that needs to work within a budget. Hell I say we should've franchised Dunta at $12 mill and brought Nnamdi Asomugha here for $15 mill and given up a couple of draft choices...

Oh wait, Bob is too cheap... :gun:

:sarcasm:

Texan_Bill
02-26-2010, 12:26 PM
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc272/Hervoyel/internet_white_knight.jpg

DuntaFan1

:spit:

Hardcore Texan
02-26-2010, 12:30 PM
Does it matter? It's uncapped year. Teams can go out and spend like crazy. Forget about it being a business that needs to work within in a budget. Hell I say we should've franchised Dunta at $12 mill and brought Nnamdi Asomugha here for $15 mill and given up a couple of draft choices...

Oh wait, Bob is too cheap... :gun:

:sarcasm:

For the people saying Bob isn't committed to winning and is just in for profit, gimme a break. It doesn't make sense.

Along that line of logic, wouldn't winning in the playoffs and/or a Superbowl increase your brand and make you more money? So why wouldn't he be committed to winning if it could make him more money at it? Afterall, that's all he is in it for right? That logic contradicts itself and does not make sense.

The REAL problem those people are having with Bob is the way he is going about winning. They seem to feel like he's doing it all wrong. Well, there is a solution. Go become a billionaire and buy yourself and team and show the world how right you are.

It's crazy to assume that Bob doesn't want to win because it hasnt' been proven to 'you'. Want to argue he's trusting the wrong football people to run his team, fine.....want to critique the way he goes about it fine.....but this 'Bob hasn't proven to me he wants to win' stuff is just mind boggling to me.

Oh, and last time I check Dunta doesn't even want to be on this team, what good is forcing a player to stay, overpaying him just so he can take plays off when he feels like it and costing the club some wins.

But carry on, :deadhorse:

BIG TORO
02-26-2010, 12:39 PM
Does it matter? It's uncapped year. Teams can go out and spend like crazy. Forget about it being a business that needs to work within a budget. Hell I say we should've franchised Dunta at $12 mill and brought Nnamdi Asomugha here for $15 mill and given up a couple of draft choices...

Oh wait, Bob is too cheap... :gun:

:sarcasm:

Its not about being cheap!

Its about being smart, making the right decisions for the team, and not just blowing money because you have it.

In other word acheiving the goal with the minimum necessary. Thats how he became a millionaire.

correction billionaire!

Texan_Bill
02-26-2010, 12:45 PM
I guess my :sarcasm: smiley is not working.


Facetious

fa·ce·tious   /fəˈsiʃəs/ Show Spelled[fuh-see-shuhs] Show IPA
–adjective
1.not meant to be taken seriously or literally: a facetious remark.
2.amusing; humorous.
3.lacking serious intent; concerned with something nonessential, amusing, or frivolous: a facetious person.

imatexan
02-26-2010, 12:52 PM
18+ pages on Dunta, shows that he is a big part of this team hate him or love him.

BIG TORO
02-26-2010, 12:54 PM
I guess my :sarcasm: smiley is not working.

No its not Bill this is serious serious serious stuff were talking about here!there is no room for clowns:clown:

Texan_Bill
02-26-2010, 12:56 PM
No its not Bill this is serious serious serious stuff were talking about here!there is no room for clowns:clown:

lol:

Was just trying to dispel the notion that Bob McNair is some sort of cheapass.

WolverineFan
02-26-2010, 12:57 PM
18+ pages on Dunta, shows that he is a big part of this team hate him or love him.

He is a big part of this team because at this time we do not have a suitable replacement for him. If we did then I would have no qualms about letting him walk. However, I will not overpay him just because he thinks he's worth more than he really is and thinks he can get away with it because we need a CB.

Hardcore Texan
02-26-2010, 12:57 PM
I guess my :sarcasm: smiley is not working.

I knew what you meant and was agreeing, I was just piggybacking off of your comments. :photos:

beerlover
02-26-2010, 01:00 PM
free agent market will determine his value, its out of Rick Smith control now :cool:

HOU-TEX
02-26-2010, 01:00 PM
lol:

Was just trying to dispel the notion that Bob McNair is some sort of cheapass.

Good luck with that! As long as a select few are around here, he'll always be considered "cheap".

Goatcheese
02-26-2010, 01:01 PM
You are pencil whipping the numbers and the stats are based on pure yardage, etc, not opinions. It is one of the most repsected sites out there. You are basically making up an argument. Let me switch places with you and be smarmy for a minute. An opinion is something like "I think Dunta sucks." Giving a value system to a stat isn't an opinion when all those value stats are used the same across the board for each player. It's not like they decided to make a statistical analysis site to stick it to Dunta. What is funny is that there are fractions involved in the alleged #1 corner you so covet and a rookie last year. Even in your cherry picking you make my point. And Quin wasn't even as good as Reeves. So how is Dunta #1?

Putting them on an equal level so that you can do an accurate analysis is "pencil whipping the numbers"?

Did you mean for that to come across as retarded as it did? You are the one trying to warp the stats to show what you want them to. Comparing a guy who had < 500 snaps in coverage to a guy with > 600 using just the flat yards and receptions is neither fair, accurate or honest.

If Robinson had played 121 fewer snaps you could reasonably expect him to have given up 106 fewer yards based on his performance of 0.88 yards per snap.

If the number of snaps they played were reversed their numbers would have projected to looked like this:

Robinson 497 snaps for 438 yards
Quin 618 snaps 730 yards

See why the number of snaps, and yards per snap matter?

PFF even admits their rating system is subjective and opinion based fyi. They also note that anything to do with receivers and DBs downfield can't be graded because they can't see it unless the ball goes to that part of the field.

That means the 86.9% of plays D-Rob wasn't thrown at netted him no points for coverage. It's why they don't have Nnamdi Asomugha as the run away best cover man. They just rarely see him.

beerlover
02-26-2010, 01:01 PM
Good luck with that! As long as a select few are around here, he'll always be considered "cheap".

I've never considered him "cheap" more like mis-informed :kitten:

HOU-TEX
02-26-2010, 01:05 PM
I've never considered him "cheap" more like mis-informed :kitten:

During the previous regime, I'd agree. But, he even admitted he wasn't up to snuff on pro football when he brought the team here. He made the mistake of bringing Casserly and Capers here and considering he's a very good business man I'd assume he's learned.

Texan_Bill
02-26-2010, 01:13 PM
Good luck with that! As long as a select few are around here, he'll always be considered "cheap".

Which "select few"? :whistle:

Blake
02-26-2010, 01:13 PM
SH

You keep saying that we've lost our "#1 Cornerback" and it forces me to reflect and then ask "By what measure?"

Was Dunta our #1 because he played better than anyone else on our roster? I don't believe that's accurate. profootballfocus.com has him rated 98th (as has been covered widely already in this thread) behind two other Texans corners neither of who are fan favorites. One is a rookie.

Is he our #1 corner because of his stats? Led the corners in tackles? Nope, that was Glover Quin, the rookie. Led the corners in interceptions? Nope, that was Jaques Reeves with a whopping 1 pick. Passes defensed? Nope, Quin again with 9. Penalties then, maybe he committed fewer penalties than the rest of them? No, that wasn't it either.

The whole focus of your anger about this seems to be funneled through the idea that we let our #1 cornerback go but damn man, if your #1 cornerback can't even make a case for why he should be considered your #1 cornerback then what in the hell are we talking about anyway?

So that was a down year? He's really much better than that but didn't show it?

Because why exactly? Because he didn't come to camp to make a point? Then he's stupid and is a stupid cornerback really an asset? Dunta played like shit last year by almost every legitimate measurable standard and he did it because he either couldn't play any better or wouldn't play any better. Neither one of those is a good road to be going down.

If he's lost a step as a result of injury then is he really our #1 cornerback?
If he's couldn't do it because he sat out then is he really our #1 cornerback?
If he just sandbagged and pouted his way through a shitty year is he really our #1 cornerback?

Before we get all upset about what we're losing lets at least try to be honest about what he's worth. In this scenario Dunta is just getting his usual pass because he was our 2004 first round pick and had a good rookie year opposite Aaron Glenn.

Just ask yourself this. Who lined up against the other teams #1 WR each and every play, each and every game?

THAT is your #1 Corner.

There are no statistics you can use to prove which CB is better or worse. They play against different WR's.

Blake
02-26-2010, 01:14 PM
I agree that this thread has just about run its course.

Bottom line: We lost our #1 corner, and best pound for pound hitter on the team, maybe in the league, and plan on replacing him with a rookie. Let the fun begin!

Double Barrel
02-26-2010, 01:16 PM
SH

You keep saying that we've lost our "#1 Cornerback" and it forces me to reflect and then ask "By what measure?"

Was Dunta our #1 because he played better than anyone else on our roster? I don't believe that's accurate. profootballfocus.com has him rated 98th (as has been covered widely already in this thread) behind two other Texans corners neither of who are fan favorites. One is a rookie.

Is he our #1 corner because of his stats? Led the corners in tackles? Nope, that was Glover Quin, the rookie. Led the corners in interceptions? Nope, that was Jaques Reeves with a whopping 1 pick. Passes defensed? Nope, Quin again with 9. Penalties then, maybe he committed fewer penalties than the rest of them? No, that wasn't it either.

The whole focus of your anger about this seems to be funneled through the idea that we let our #1 cornerback go but damn man, if your #1 cornerback can't even make a case for why he should be considered your #1 cornerback then what in the hell are we talking about anyway?

So that was a down year? He's really much better than that but didn't show it?

Because why exactly? Because he didn't come to camp to make a point? Then he's stupid and is a stupid cornerback really an asset? Dunta played like shit last year by almost every legitimate measurable standard and he did it because he either couldn't play any better or wouldn't play any better. Neither one of those is a good road to be going down.

If he's lost a step as a result of injury then is he really our #1 cornerback?
If he's couldn't do it because he sat out then is he really our #1 cornerback?
If he just sandbagged and pouted his way through a shitty year is he really our #1 cornerback?

Before we get all upset about what we're losing lets at least try to be honest about what he's worth. In this scenario Dunta is just getting his usual pass because he was our 2004 first round pick and had a good rookie year opposite Aaron Glenn.

Good post, Herv. I'd like to see some pro-D.Rob folks honestly try to answer the questions you put forth. What, other than opinion or payroll or draft position, makes him the lock as our no. 1 CB?

HoustonFrog
02-26-2010, 01:23 PM
Putting them on an equal level so that you can do an accurate analysis is "pencil whipping the numbers"?

Did you mean for that to come across as retarded as it did?

I stopped reading after this. Classy and in left field, great combo. I guess when you can't make an intelligent argument you resort to this.

Goatcheese
02-26-2010, 01:29 PM
I stopped reading after this. Classy and in left field, great combo. PFF is alot more detailed then your simple mindeset on it. Read it all. Again, you don't get that big of a gap on opinion alone. Since there are 32 teams with 2 actual starting corners of course the snaps are going to be off. But you take the time played and use those stats. That is all you can go on. You can't assume. Again, Dunta was about the 3rd best corner. I'm glad the Texans allowed him to get burned by a teams top WR every week.

So to recap: You have no valid arguments.

You could have just started with that and saved everyone a lot of time.

Hardcore Texan
02-26-2010, 01:47 PM
I agree that this thread has just about run its course.

Bottom line: We lost our #1 corner, and best pound for pound hitter on the team, maybe in the league, and plan on replacing him with a rookie. Let the fun begin!

Maybe before we got here, but not since.

Signed,

Brian Cushing and Bernard Pollard

HOU-TEX
02-26-2010, 01:50 PM
Which "select few"? :whistle:

Oh, I think you might have an idea. If Tha Dumpster posted in this thread it would then be complete.

badboy
02-26-2010, 01:52 PM
Compare Dunta Robinson and Tracy McGrady.

Kaiser Toro
02-26-2010, 01:53 PM
So to recap: You have no valid arguments.

You could have just started with that and saved everyone a lot of time.

I believe the recap is that your constant berating of members is getting in the way of your narrative.

HoustonFrog
02-26-2010, 01:54 PM
So to recap: You have no valid arguments.

You could have just started with that and saved everyone a lot of time.

I laid out my arguments, sans name calling and an attitude that lends itself to an inferiority complex. It's simple. The stats show Dunta wasn't much better or even better than a rookie and that the #1 corner on the team last year was Reeves. You can cut and spin all you want. You can say he played on different WRs or played a certain number or plays, but when broken down, he was constantly burned, had big time PI calls on him, missed tackles and was not a Top corner. What is funny is that you are up in arms over Dunta vs Quin...a rookie and are splicing percentage points to make an argument of being the 2nd best corner on just this team. The stats don't lie, sorry. You can now continue to cut people down while rolling your eyes. It makes you smart.

I believe the recap is that your constant berating of members is getting in the way of your narrative.

This

Texan_Bill
02-26-2010, 01:54 PM
Oh, I think you might have an idea. If Tha Dumpster posted in this thread it would then be complete.

:spit:

Compare Dunta Robinson and Tracy McGrady.

Too bad this board is rated PG, I could have a field day with this. :texanbill:

HOU-TEX
02-26-2010, 01:55 PM
Compare Dunta Robinson and Tracy McGrady.

Nothing to compare, except neither one will be in Houston. I liked Dunta, but he lost a little in his legs and put the Texans in a difficult decision. I have no doubt Dunta gave his best every time on the field.

As far as McPuhC, not going to talk about him. He's gone and I'm happy.

Goatcheese
02-26-2010, 02:12 PM
I laid out my arguments,

Yes, your completely innacurate, dishonest and unfair argument that doesn't account for the difference in the number of snaps.

Hey Carr threw for 2,767 yards in 2006, we were stupid to replace him with Schaub's 2,241 yards in 2007.

Hint: Schaub only played in 11 games. Take note that how much you play matters.

sans name calling and an attitude that lends itself to an inferiority complex.

You poor little victim. :rolleyes:

It's simple. The stats show Dunta wasn't much better or even better than a rookie

The stats say that Robinson was wildly better than Quin. They're not even close. Robinson is above average in almost every category. Quin is bellow average in almost every category. NO COMPARISON.

and that the #1 corner on the team last year was Reeves.

Actually I've said that Reeves was our best corner this year. Based on statistical analysis I have him as the 8th best, Robinson 23rd best, and Quin 53rd best.

Robinson played the role of #1 corner though. "Best" and "#1 corner" are not the same thing. One is a talent/performance analysis, the other is a position on the field/depth chart.

You can cut and spin all you want to say he played on different WRs or played a certain number or plays, but when broken down, he was constantly burned, had big time PI calls on him, missed tackles and was not a Top corner. What is funny is that you are up in arms over Dunta vs Quin...a rookie and are splicing percentage points to make an argument of being the 2nd best corner on just this team. The stats don't lie, sorry.

No, the statistics clearly show that they're not even close. You have to ignore half the numbers to even get them to within spitting distance.

You can now continue to cut people down while rolling your eyes. It makes you smart.

Seriously, get over the "poor little me" bullshit. I said your statement was retarded, that's not a "cut down" or a personal attack. It's a comment on how stupid your reply was.

The more you post, the more I'm convinced that more than your comments are deficient.

Shaft75
02-26-2010, 02:35 PM
:d:

Texan_Bill
02-26-2010, 02:43 PM
:d:

I'll finish the thought:

":d:...... will be better without Dunta!"


:stirpot:

Shaft75
02-26-2010, 02:54 PM
:kitten::scarygirl::breakdance::photos::splits: :ant:

JB
02-26-2010, 02:59 PM
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/sanjacal/th_argue.gif

Texan_Bill
02-26-2010, 03:01 PM
Progresses from thishttp://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/sanjacal/th_argue.gif

To this:

:slapfight:

HOU-TEX
02-26-2010, 03:03 PM
http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-finger004.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

HoustonFrog
02-26-2010, 03:03 PM
Seriously, get over the "poor little me" bullshit. I said your statement was retarded, that's not a "cut down" or a personal attack. It's a comment on how stupid your reply was.

The more you post, the more I'm convinced that more than your comments are deficient.

Again, its not poor little me. It's just called having a mature debate on a player. I'm not the only person you've done this to in the thread. When you have to act this way, it implies you have a self esteem problem. Why else would you add such brilliant statements to a simple debate?

Let me make it simple for you because no one cares what your rankings are because they are made up in your head. Your main claim is that because of Dunta's playing time that the stats are skewed. Yet wouldn't more playing time net him more ints, more passes defensed, more knockdowns, etc, etc?Logically it would. Yet it doesn't translate that way. You can make the excuse that they weren't throwing his way but that isn't true either because being on their #1 guy he was getting beat and teams weren't afraid of him. I mean here is a guy that had approx 250 more snaps and yet has 54 tackles and 3 assts and Quin has 57 tackles and 9 assts. You can't just attribute that to teams running to Quin's side or him chasing guys from behind when there are 250 more snaps. You just admitted that Reeves had a better year and is ranked higher but according to PFF he had even less snaps than Quin...499 total. Quin had 762 and Dunta just above 1000. So you are basically making an argument to fit your need. I'm just looking at from a broad view from the outside. You can get defensive about it but there is a reason why the have their rankings and its not even close.

Texan_Bill
02-26-2010, 03:10 PM
http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-finger004.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

Awesome!!

*********************

Maybe Aaron Glenn will come back(??) :thinking:

HOU-TEX
02-26-2010, 03:15 PM
Awesome!!

*********************

Maybe Aaron Glenn will come back(??) :thinking:

I still don't know why everyone's worried about the CB position when we still have Mark Parson. :shrug:

Texan_Bill
02-26-2010, 03:21 PM
I still don't know why everyone's worried about the CB position when we still have Mark Parson. :shrug:

:clap: YUP and he put up some lofty numbers too. :lol:

El Tejano
02-26-2010, 03:50 PM
He allowed 3 receptions for 37 yards the entire game. That's a quality game for anyone not named Asomugha. Even Revis and Woodson had plenty of 30+ yard games.

If your expectation is for him to give up ZERO receptions per game, then you're going to be disappointed in every corner ever to lace 'em up. That is completely unreasonable.

Ask yourself how you would feel if our receivers were held to 3 for 37 by their top corner.

Here is how Darrell Revis fared:

Week 1 HOU 2 for 21
week 2 NEP 4 for 24
week 3 TEN 5 for 64
week 4 NOS 0 for 0
Week 5 MIA 4 for 75
Week 6 BUF 3 for 13
week 7 OAK 2 for 10
week 8 MIA 1 for 15
week10 JAX 2 for 16
week11 NEP 5 for 72
week12 CAR 1 for 5
week13 BUF 3 for 29
week14 TAM 3 for 25
week16 IND 3 for 28
week17 CIN 1 for 16

Vince also only completed 12 of 22 passes and 6 of those 12 went for 1st downs. Half of those 6 passes were Dunta and the only TD pass Vince threw was Dunta. Really Really Bad.

Shaft75
02-26-2010, 03:55 PM
Vince also only completed 12 of 22 passes and 6 of those 12 went for 1st downs. Half of those 6 passes were Dunta and the only TD pass Vince threw was Dunta. Really Really Bad.

And the plot thickens...

Texan_Bill
02-26-2010, 04:32 PM
Revis had 6 interceptions, Dunta a big fat 0

/Comparison between Dunta and Darrelle Revis.

Goatcheese
02-26-2010, 07:00 PM
Again, its not poor little me. It's just called having a mature debate on a player. I'm not the only person you've done this to in the thread. When you have to act this way, it implies you have a self esteem problem. Why else would you add such brilliant statements to a simple debate?

Yes, you are whining and crying about "why are you being mean to me? :baby: don't be mean to me." I said you made a retarded comment and you threw a tantrum that has run over multiple pages. Grow up and stop acting like a two year old.

Let me make it simple for you because no one cares what your rankings are because they are made up in your head. Your main claim is that because of Dunta's playing time that the stats are skewed. Yet wouldn't more playing time net him more ints, more passes defensed, more knockdowns, etc, etc?Logically it would. Yet it doesn't translate that way. You can make the excuse that they weren't throwing his way but that isn't true either because being on their #1 guy he was getting beat and teams weren't afraid of him. I mean here is a guy that had approx 250 more snaps and yet has 54 tackles and 3 assts and Quin has 57 tackles and 9 assts. You can't just attribute that to teams running to Quin's side or him chasing guys from behind when there are 250 more snaps. You just admitted that Reeves had a better year and is ranked higher but according to PFF he had even less snaps than Quin...499 total. Quin had 762 and Dunta just above 1000. So you are basically making an argument to fit your need. I'm just looking at from a broad view from the outside. You can get defensive about it but there is a reason why the have their rankings and its not even close.

So your argument is that it's okay to give up 34% more yards per play in coverage, as long as you break up 2 more passes in the same number of times thrown at, while having the same number of interceptions?

...

And you're asking why I'm talking down to you? Seriously?

FYI Nnamdi Asomugha had 1 int, 2 PD and allowed a 75% completion %. Man that guy must suck. :rolleyes:

As for Reeves, I have him rated higher because the facts say he's better. It doesn't matter that he played fewer snaps because, unlike you, I account for playing time on a play by play basis. You just stare at the numbers cross eyed while drooling in your poop cup, because you have no idea how to adjust for simple differences in playing time. We're talking 2nd grade math here and it's flying over your head like a 747 at cruising altitude.

Yards per play in coverage
Reeves 0.82 <--- winner
D-Rob 0.88

Reception %
Reeves 7.5% <--- winner
D-Rob 8.6%

Thrown at %
Reeves 14.2
D-Rob 13.1 <--- winner

Yards per reception
Reeves 10.9
D-Rob 10.3 <--- winner

Yards per attempt
Reeves 5.7 <--- winner
D-Rob 6.7

Completion %
Reeves 52.9 <--- winner
D-Rob 65.4

WWJD
02-26-2010, 07:06 PM
Goodness who cares?

He's going to another team...he'll get a huge contract somewhere...he'll win some battles and he'll get beat sometimes.

Just like every other CB in the league.

This stat, that stat. Who cares anymore?

HoustonFrog
02-26-2010, 07:38 PM
WWJD, sometimes people can't see the forest through the trees. It's that simple. I'm out of here.

Second Honeymoon
02-26-2010, 07:45 PM
Bob is cheap. Dunta was our best corner and we lost him. Pitts was one of our best interior lineman and we lost him. Both were drafted early by the Texans.

So much for Bob's 'build through the draft' excuse for not spending money on quality free agents. We can't even retain our own.....

but boy, he will pay up the yin yang for 'players' like Carr, Weaver, and Greenwood. In other words, you have to suck mightily to get paid by Bob.

I am not saying Dunta is the cat's meow but to lose him and get nothing is just embarassing and indicative of the franchise's lack of commitment to winning....imho. I respect all of your opinions and I know a lot of you guys have an axe to grind regarding Dunta. I wasn't a fan of his act either with the whole shoe thing, but at the end of the day he was a good corner for us and now we are left without one of our starting corners. How does this make us better in 2010? It makes the Texans more profitable, but does it make us better? That is all I care about.

I wonder if we spend another 8 years without a playoff berth and Bob the Spendthrift continues his ways, will some of you sing the same tune? We are halfway there after all. If we continue with this draft a player and let him go method of business, we will be back at the bottom of the NFL in no time at all.

As the unquestioned best player on the team, I wonder what Andre thinks of this move? I doubt he is really happy about this move which was based purely on profit. You can't blame this on the salary cap because you can be over the cap and still franchise a player...oh and the fact that there is NO SALARY CAP IN 2010. This was a move purely for profit. Simple as that.

are some of you guys involved in profit sharing with the Texans? if not, then why would you not want us to spend whatever it takes to put the best team on the field. Salary cap has no meaning this year. I respect your opinion, but I just wonder why some of you guys think this makes us a better team because its easy to see this doesn't make us a better team and does NOTHING to help us regarding salary cap.

Have a great weekend everyone. I will check on this thread from my iphone but hate replying on that thing. i could do some five word comments like 'Bob u r teh suxxorz' or 'Dunta is 1337' and I bet that would make people a lot happier around here as opposed to my lengthy rants.

The kinder gentler SH.

P.S. If we do end up getting a 3rd Rounder as compensation, I will be less 'disgruntled'

Second Honeymoon
02-26-2010, 07:49 PM
WWJD, sometimes people can't see the forest through the trees. It's that simple. I'm out of here.

don't go HF. we wub you :)

HoustonFrog
02-26-2010, 07:56 PM
don't go HF. we wub you :)

Not leaving around here bud, just away from area where I've alredy made my peace. :toast2:

beerlover
02-26-2010, 08:37 PM
During the previous regime, I'd agree. But, he even admitted he wasn't up to snuff on pro football when he brought the team here. He made the mistake of bringing Casserly and Capers here and considering he's a very good business man I'd assume he's learned.

surely you jest? or do you mean post David Carr extension based on Kubiak telling Bob he is fixable :snowday:

playa465
02-26-2010, 09:04 PM
A guy who played 5 snaps and didn't give up any receptions is not the greatest corner to ever take the field. He's a bum who couldn't get on the field.


I like this one, it made my day LOL...THANKS

Goat, I see your point but I still don't agree with it. Dunta played in our #1 CB role. We didn't resign him but it doesn't mean we didn't replace him. It means that either 1, 2 or both things applied:

1. Mgmnt thinks we could do better with what we have or will pursue (draft/FA)
2. Mgmnt does not think he is worth the $$$

Alot of people say well its an uncapped year so sign him, if it was my money I wouldn't. Just b/c there is no cap, does it mean spend wildly for 1 year on everything? That still does not necessarily transform us into SB contenders so it makes zero business sense. $12M is just too much to pay a player who is not performing at that level esp when you have a choice; so the Texans exercised their choice. Most of us think Reeves is the better cover corner so maybe its time for him to take over the opposing team's #1 WR in coverage. This would allow our younger CBs to step up in into the #2 CB and nickel spots. Other teams have done it with young CBs why can't we?

Cjeremy635
02-26-2010, 10:30 PM
Bob is cheap. Dunta was our best corner and we lost him. Pitts was one of our best interior lineman and we lost him. Both were drafted early by the Texans.

So much for Bob's 'build through the draft' excuse for not spending money on quality free agents. We can't even retain our own.....


Did I miss something? When did we lose Pitts? Is this purely your speculation?

If so.............:choke:

steelbtexan
02-27-2010, 02:02 AM
Hey Frog

You cant fix stupd.

Goatcheese
02-27-2010, 05:17 AM
I like this one, it made my day LOL...THANKS

Goat, I see your point but I still don't agree with it. Dunta played in our #1 CB role. We didn't resign him but it doesn't mean we didn't replace him. It means that either 1, 2 or both things applied:

1. Mgmnt thinks we could do better with what we have or will pursue (draft/FA)
2. Mgmnt does not think he is worth the $$$

Alot of people say well its an uncapped year so sign him, if it was my money I wouldn't. Just b/c there is no cap, does it mean spend wildly for 1 year on everything? That still does not necessarily transform us into SB contenders so it makes zero business sense. $12M is just too much to pay a player who is not performing at that level esp when you have a choice; so the Texans exercised their choice. Most of us think Reeves is the better cover corner so maybe its time for him to take over the opposing team's #1 WR in coverage. This would allow our younger CBs to step up in into the #2 CB and nickel spots. Other teams have done it with young CBs why can't we?

Obviously D-Rob isn't good value at $12 mil for one year. Nobody would argue that.

But when you're on the cusp of finally breaking into the playoffs and pull this, it just stinks of 2005. Remember when we went 7-9, the media loved us and the fans were pumped for the playoffs? Then suddenly we dumped our vets, overpaid a bunch of turds from a horrid FA class, had a piss poor draft and proceeded to go 2-14. That's what this year feels like.

Our best(and I use the term loosely) case scenario for this year is to sign Bodden, who is going to demand a lot of money as an only slightly bellow average corner in a nonexistent FA class. That would have serious ramifications spanning 5+ years of our franchise. We could also roll the dice in the annual craps shoot and use a high draft pick that could have filled one of our 7 other gaping holes.

Which would you rather the Texans have:

-Dunta Robinson - 1st round draft pick at DT/G/C/FS

-1st round CB and $12 mil that disappears into Bob's bank account, never to be seen again

For me that's not even a question.

Lucky
02-27-2010, 07:04 AM
Which would you rather the Texans have:

-Dunta Robinson - 1st round draft pick at DT/G/C/FS

-1st round CB and $12 mil that disappears into Bob's bank account, never to be seen again

Did you consider the possibility of:

FAs @ DT/G/C/or FS and 1st CB?

What's with the whining about signings and draft picks before free agency and the draft? There's plenty of time to ***** and moan about the Texans offseason moves. Maybe we should wait until they actually do something before we start crying about it?

steelbtexan
02-27-2010, 08:55 AM
For the people saying Bob isn't committed to winning and is just in for profit, gimme a break. It doesn't make sense.

Along that line of logic, wouldn't winning in the playoffs and/or a Superbowl increase your brand and make you more money? So why wouldn't he be committed to winning if it could make him more money at it? Afterall, that's all he is in it for right? That logic contradicts itself and does not make sense.

The REAL problem those people are having with Bob is the way he is going about winning. They seem to feel like he's doing it all wrong. Well, there is a solution. Go become a billionaire and buy yourself and team and show the world how right you are.

It's crazy to assume that Bob doesn't want to win because it hasnt' been proven to 'you'. Want to argue he's trusting the wrong football people to run his team, fine.....want to critique the way he goes about it fine.....but this 'Bob hasn't proven to me he wants to win' stuff is just mind boggling to me.

Oh, and last time I check Dunta doesn't even want to be on this team, what good is forcing a player to stay, overpaying him just so he can take plays off when he feels like it and costing the club some wins.

But carry on, :deadhorse:

What is the Texans winning %?

How many winning seasons have the Texans had?

Playoff appearances?

You dont think it's appropriate to ? McNairs committment to winning?

Oh well take another sip of the koolaid. It's umm ummm good

Hardcore Texan
02-27-2010, 09:47 AM
What is the Texans winning %? Not high enough

How many winning seasons have the Texans had? 1

Playoff appearances? 0

You dont think it's appropriate to ? I don't follow? McNairs committment to winning? How can people assume because we haven't had the results yet that the committment from the OWNER is not there.

Oh well take another sip of the koolaid. It's umm ummm good. Well goh-lee that's orginal, Ha ha ha, pass me a bigger cup......there's barely anything in this one.





You guys are probably right, he dropped a half a billion because he only wanted to be mediocre.

Shaft75
02-27-2010, 10:01 AM
I posed a question to all the Dunta-lovers earlier in this thread asking for what big plays he has made, since he wants big time money... All I got was 1 interception and one forced fumble.

NOW I want to ask something to all the McNair-haters. What has he ever done to suggest that he's not willing to do what it takes to win?

Goatcheese
02-27-2010, 10:07 AM
Did you consider the possibility of:

FAs @ DT/G/C/or FS and 1st CB?

What's with the whining about signings and draft picks before free agency and the draft? There's plenty of time to ***** and moan about the Texans offseason moves. Maybe we should wait until they actually do something before we start crying about it?

This thread is for you: http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68358

You guys are probably right, he dropped a half a billion because he only wanted to be mediocre.

The Texans are one of the most profitable franchises in the NFL. It's not like he just gave $500,000,000 to the city of Houston as a charitable contribution. He's making a ton of money.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/30/football-values-09_Houston-Texans_302019.html



#6 Houston Texans

Team Value $1.2 bil

Houston Texans
are owned by Robert McNair (Net Worth: $1.2 billion),
who bought them in 1999
for $700 mil.

1-Yr Value Chg. 2%
Ann. Value Chg. 5%
Debt/Value 26%
Revenue $256 mil
Operating Income $41.5 mil
Player Expenses $140 mil
Gate Receipts $50 mil


His $700 million investment has increased 71.4% in value in a decade without one playoff appearance to show for it.

Hardcore Texan
02-27-2010, 10:37 AM
This thread is for you: http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68358



The Texans are one of the most profitable franchises in the NFL. It's not like he just gave $500,000,000 to the city of Houston as a charitable contribution. He's making a ton of money.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/30/football-values-09_Houston-Texans_302019.html



His $700 million investment has increased 71.4% in value in a decade without one playoff appearance to show for it.

So if we won some playoff games and possibly a superbowl would Bob stand to make even more money? Would ticket prices go up? Would his brand be more recognizable?

steelbtexan
02-27-2010, 11:02 AM
This thread is for you: http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68358



The Texans are one of the most profitable franchises in the NFL. It's not like he just gave $500,000,000 to the city of Houston as a charitable contribution. He's making a ton of money.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/30/football-values-09_Houston-Texans_302019.html



His $700 million investment has increased 71.4% in value in a decade without one playoff appearance to show for it.

Numbers dont lie, both the Texans winning % and McNairs profit margin.

The Texans raised ticket prices 7% after failing at their stated mission. (making the playoffs)

How much are they going to raise ticket prices when they actually live up to the hype and make the playoffs?

This is just another business to McNair and he's a great businessman.

GP
02-27-2010, 11:37 AM
I posed a question to all the Dunta-lovers earlier in this thread asking for what big plays he has made, since he wants big time money... All I got was 1 interception and one forced fumble.

NOW I want to ask something to all the McNair-haters. What has he ever done to suggest that he's not willing to do what it takes to win?

I think he makes a lot of decisions based on his feelings, or based upon how much he likes a person. He pushes the "character" card to a flaw.

It's as if he doesn't want to JUST win, but he wants to be known as the nicest team in the nation, with the cleanest-cut players and staff, etc.

While it's good that he's loyal and gives people lots of chain, I wonder if this is somehow seeping down into the psyche of the team's attitude and their mindset on the field on gameday.

Because if you know that your owner is a patient man, someone who gave $8 million to David Carr for a wasted season, as well as almost $10 million to Dunta, and then there's keeping Travis Johnson for about 2 years too long, as well, and the list goes on (Richard Smith anyone?) then you begin to think that there's always another day, another game, and another season down the road as a Texans player.

The niceness is being carried out to a flaw, IMO.

So in an innocent, unassuming way, McNair has contributed to this team's inability to seize the key moments and to make actual progress...versus progress that's defined by McNair: "I measure Gary against the other coaches in the NFL, and I think he's on the right track, blah-blah-blah..."

Does this jive with anybody here? That's the "nicest" way I can put it, since the Texans are all about how we approach the game of football.

steelbtexan
02-27-2010, 11:49 AM
I think he makes a lot of decisions based on his feelings, or based upon how much he likes a person. He pushes the "character" card to a flaw.

It's as if he doesn't want to JUST win, but he wants to be known as the nicest team in the nation, with the cleanest-cut players and staff, etc.

While it's good that he's loyal and gives people lots of chain, I wonder if this is somehow seeping down into the psyche of the team's attitude and their mindset on the field on gameday.

Because if you know that your owner is a patient man, someone who gave $8 million to David Carr for a wasted season, as well as almost $10 million to Dunta, and then there's keeping Travis Johnson for about 2 years too long, as well, and the list goes on (Richard Smith anyone?) then you begin to think that there's always another day, another game, and another season down the road as a Texans player.

The niceness is being carried out to a flaw, IMO.

So in an innocent, unassuming way, McNair has contributed to this team's inability to seize the key moments and to make actual progress...versus progress that's defined by McNair: "I measure Gary against the other coaches in the NFL, and I think he's on the right track, blah-blah-blah..."

Does this jive with anybody here? That's the "nicest" way I can put it, since the Texans are all about how we approach the game of football.

That was a very nice way to put it.

Nice has no place in the NFL. IMHO

I want my players to be big tough mean SOB's that are fast and willing to do whatever it takes to win.

But that's just me. It certianly doesn't describe Bob McNair.

That was the nicest way that i know how to put it.

GP
02-27-2010, 11:56 AM
That was a very nice way to put it.

Nice has no place in the NFL. IMHO

I want my players to be big tough mean SOB's that are fast and willing to do whatever it takes to win.

But that's just me. It certianly doesn't describe Bob McNair.

That was the nicest way that i know how to put it.

Well, "Thank you," steelbtexan.

You are a nice guy, too. I like your posts a lot.

I would like to reward you with 8 million rep points. Or 10 million. Your choice. :heart:

Second Honeymoon
02-27-2010, 12:58 PM
Did I miss something? When did we lose Pitts? Is this purely your speculation?

If so.............:choke:

yeah, he is gone. but we are 'building through the draft' and rewarding the players that play well for us....

...what a load of crap...but hey, a lot of the fanbase actually buys that load of crap.

Chance_C
02-27-2010, 01:19 PM
yeah, he is gone. but we are 'building through the draft' and rewarding the players that play well for us....

...what a load of crap...but hey, a lot of the fanbase actually buys that load of crap.

I must have missed something.....or is this just you speculating?

playa465
02-27-2010, 01:36 PM
Which would you rather the Texans have:

-Dunta Robinson - 1st round draft pick at DT/G/C/FS

-1st round CB and $12 mil that disappears into Bob's bank account, never to be seen again

For me that's not even a question.

For you these are "your" only choices. I'm not going to list other choices but you know there are more possibilities than that.

To the other posters that question McNair's commitment to winning:

Do you really think McNair tells his people ok you can sign some players but you can only spend "X" amount? Do you think McNair can scout a player for this team's need? McNair is a businessman, he pays people to make the football decisions and I highly doubt he goes against their judgment unless something is blatantly out of the ordinary. Look at this: http://www.houstontexans.com/team/FrontOffice.asp at spots 4 and 5 under executive mgmnt and spots 1 and 2 under football operations...those are your decision makers as far as players are concerned. Even though he won't let his decision makers just spend all of his money I'm sure if they want someone/something he will oblige.

steelbtexan
02-27-2010, 01:49 PM
Well, "Thank you," steelbtexan.

You are a nice guy, too. I like your posts a lot.

I would like to reward you with 8 million rep points. Or 10 million. Your choice. :heart:

You can franchise me if you want to 12 million rep points

Or a long term deal 40 mil over 5 yrs. (23 mil garunteed)

Where's my shoes and tape (PAY ME GP)

LOL

infantrycak
02-27-2010, 02:02 PM
I must have missed something.....or is this just you speculating?

Just speculation. But it wouldn't be surprising either as he is 30 now which isn't old for an OLmen but is also coming off a major injury which the Texans have a lot more information on than we do. Remember Sharper? - people were pissed when he was let go. Turns out the Texans were right that his knee was about to go.

Big Lou
02-27-2010, 02:10 PM
Which would you rather the Texans have:

-Dunta Robinson - 1st round draft pick at DT/G/C/FS

-1st round CB and $12 mil that disappears into Bob's bank account, never to be seen again

For me that's not even a question.

Yeh rich Fat Cat!!! What does he think he's doing making a profit!!! That Billion that he earned and invested in an upstart NFL Franchise should be spent in order to pacify, us the loyal fans!!!!

Professional sports are a choice not a right, if we feel that ol' Bob is raking us over the coals for profit through tickets prices and not spending anything on the team then we don't have to buy tickets or anything else for that matter. This is "his" bussiness, he has all the risk so he get's all the reward.

Bud "Satan" Adams owne the ummm, uummm well you know what he owned had the right to move the franchise he owned, but he was a pr**k about it and extorted money from the city every year for the Dome, at least Bob hasn't tried to pull that sh*t and probably never will.

steelbtexan
02-27-2010, 02:27 PM
Yeh rich Fat Cat!!! What does he think he's doing making a profit!!! That Billion that he earned and invested in an upstart NFL Franchise should be spent in order to pacify, us the loyal fans!!!!

Professional sports are a choice not a right, if we feel that ol' Bob is raking us over the coals for profit through tickets prices and not spending anything on the team then we don't have to buy tickets or anything else for that matter. This is "his" bussiness, he has all the risk so he get's all the reward.

Bud "Satan" Adams owne the ummm, uummm well you know what he owned had the right to move the franchise he owned, but he was a pr**k about it and extorted money from the city every year for the Dome, at least Bob hasn't tried to pull that sh*t and probably never will.

Your right and this town has told one owner to take a hike. It could happen again. If we dont spend $ on uncle BoBs toy does that make this a city of bad fans?

Uncle BoB will never have to pull a Bottom Line Bud. He is subsidized by the energy tax that is Reliant Stadium.

Not that I'm taking up for anything Bud Adams does.

GP
02-27-2010, 04:21 PM
For you these are "your" only choices. I'm not going to list other choices but you know there are more possibilities than that.

To the other posters that question McNair's commitment to winning:

Do you really think McNair tells his people ok you can sign some players but you can only spend "X" amount? Do you think McNair can scout a player for this team's need? McNair is a businessman, he pays people to make the football decisions and I highly doubt he goes against their judgment unless something is blatantly out of the ordinary. Look at this: http://www.houstontexans.com/team/FrontOffice.asp at spots 4 and 5 under executive mgmnt and spots 1 and 2 under football operations...those are your decision makers as far as players are concerned. Even though he won't let his decision makers just spend all of his money I'm sure if they want someone/something he will oblige.

1. My speculation is that he DOES put a cap on what people can spend on players, and even on coaches.

2. Unless, that is, he has a special someone he wants to really roll out the red carpet for (such as Carr's $8 million season of wastefulness, and Dunta's $10 million year of wastefulness). We could have spent that $10 million on a free agent. But nooooo.....Dunta held some sort of sentimental value to the owner.

This guy makes some curious decisions to me. In almost all other scenarios, we see disciplined spending and what seems to be great job by Rick Smith of putting the right value on contracts in accordance to the player, his value, and the cap aspects related to the contracts.

But then we see two instances where a couple of players, in their respective moments of time in their careers, were not worth the lavish one-year extensions they received.

So someone (maybe the guy who writes the actual checks???) made the executive decision(s) to pay these guys big money for questionable results.

I think Bob McNair has more to do with this team than just making canned statements and sitting in his booth during games. I think, to some degree, he's in there in the decision-making process on certain things. To what extent? Not sure. But I think he alone was responsible for the Carr and Dunta red-carpet-treatment.

I can't reconcile, in my mind, that Kubiak, Bush, and/or Rick Smith thought Dunta deserved the money for the injury he was coming off of and for the attitude he rolled out during the off-season. I see Kubiak/Smith telling Dunta to take flying leap if they had their way. The reason I think this is because DeMeco and OD didn't get red-carpet-treatments last off-season. And out of Dunta, DeMeco, and OD, I see Kubiak/Smith desiring to give that sort of money to 'Meco or OD. Not Dunta.

McNair wants other NFL "superstars" out there to see that he takes care of the Texans "superstars," because it's a P.R. stunt to draw them here. I argue that we can sit here and point fingers at what moves are McNair's and what moves are coaching moves made by the coaches.

And I don't buy the idea that Rick Smith grabs players and stuffs them onto Kubiak's roster without consulting Kubiak. That's a whole other conversation, though.

redwhiteANDblue
02-27-2010, 05:58 PM
Wait...I'm late to the party and too lazy to read. Is Dunta not a Texan anymore?:pepper:

Second Honeymoon
02-27-2010, 06:22 PM
LZ and Marcus Coleman were talking Friday morning and saying that the Texans have decided to let Pitts become a UFA. They were also talking about how Gary in his post-season presser was talking about looking forward to getting Chester back for 2010. Sounds like someone put the kaybosh on that feeling.

but yeah, were 'building through the draft'....building towards another 2-14 freefall like we had in 2005. someone on this thread spoke how this whole thing smells like that offseason where we were 7-9 and then the organization got rid of players like Glenn and Sharper amongst others, and the whole shithouse went up in flames.

Other than the fact that we have competent QBing, this smells like that offseason.

and to the guy who was saying 'God forbid Bob make a profit'...Bob's franchise value has reportedly increased by 75%...but I guess that isn't enough profit. 500million increase just isn't enough. Lets put another $12 in the coffer at the detriment of his team's talent level. The sheeple are buying it. I guess I would too.

Joe Texan
02-27-2010, 07:08 PM
I am sorry SH but your comparison of Sharper and Glenn to Chester and Dunta
is like comparing Super man and Bat Man to Bart and Homer Simpson. Chester was mediocre and you want him on the team, Dunta was below mediocre and you want him on the team. Gary was above mediocre but you want him gone, and Bob is way above mediocre but you would get rid of him if you could. Come on do you not see where your going, clean those goggles man your headed straight into Mediocreville.

D-ReK
02-27-2010, 07:24 PM
LZ and Marcus Coleman were talking Friday morning and saying that the Texans have decided to let Pitts become a UFA. They were also talking about how Gary in his post-season presser was talking about looking forward to getting Chester back for 2010. Sounds like someone put the kaybosh on that feeling.

but yeah, were 'building through the draft'....building towards another 2-14 freefall like we had in 2005. someone on this thread spoke how this whole thing smells like that offseason where we were 7-9 and then the organization got rid of players like Glenn and Sharper amongst others, and the whole shithouse went up in flames.

Other than the fact that we have competent QBing, this smells like that offseason.

and to the guy who was saying 'God forbid Bob make a profit'...Bob's franchise value has reportedly increased by 75%...but I guess that isn't enough profit. 500million increase just isn't enough. Lets put another $12 in the coffer at the detriment of his team's talent level. The sheeple are buying it. I guess I would too.

You would be dead-on, except that Aaron Glenn was a much better CB in 2004 than Dunta ever was. There is a reason that Dunta's best season came when he played across from Glenn. Therefore, losing Dunta shouldn't be as big as losing Glenn. Dunta seemed to put himself before the team, also. That being said, it is very foolish to let your best CB go over money, especially in an upcapped year. If they bring in someone who is a clear upgrade, then all should be forgiven, but letting him go and relying on Quin, McCain, and Reeves is more than a bit like playing Russian Roulette with a fully loaded gun.

As for McNair's profit, I really couldn't care less about a man whose net worth is in the billions losing a few million. Money shouldn't be an issue, and it's very disheartening to get fed the company line of "spending as if there was a cap" and "building through the draft" when we have a team that is on the cusp of greatness with a couple of big moves, and knowing that those big moves aren't going to happen.

Lucky
02-27-2010, 07:40 PM
This thread is for you: http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68358
So I'm guessing you're not that impressed with the pending free agent class? Well, have you considered the possibility that the free agent class will grow when some teams (or a lot of teams) dump big contracts without repercussions in this cap free season?

playa465
02-27-2010, 07:48 PM
1. My speculation is that he DOES put a cap on what people can spend on players, I'm sure the NFL's CBA does this

2. Unless, that is, he has a special someone he wants to really roll out the red carpet for (such as Carr's $8 million season of wastefulness, and Dunta's $10 million year of wastefulness). We could have spent that $10 million on a free agent.On Carr, I bet it was Kubiak who said he could win with him so the option was picked up (you know with Kubiak being the proclaimed QB genius). With Dunta last year what was our other option? They thought he would be the CB he was prior injury...with the spark he supposedly provided when he came back at the end of 08. He didn't sign the contract which was good for us in hindsight

So someone (maybe the guy who writes the actual checks???) made the executive decision(s) to pay these guys big money for questionable results.See the link I posted and look at the chain. While McNair is the owner and ultimately will hold responsibility for the franchise look where Kubiak is. The Texans are not just a football team, they are a corporation and Kubiak is #4 with the guy who should be his boss BENEATH him in the ENTIRE operation

But I think he alone was responsible for the Carr and Dunta red-carpet-treatment.I disagree...the football people in the organization make the decisions and make the owner aware, McNair of course gives the green or red light but I highly doubt he is football savvy enough to make player personnel decisions.

I can't reconcile, in my mind, that Kubiak, Bush, and/or Rick Smith thought Dunta deserved the money for the injury he was coming off of and for the attitude he rolled out during the off-season. I see Kubiak/Smith telling Dunta to take flying leap if they had their way.I see this the other way, Kubiak is loyal to vets almost too much

The reason I think this is because DeMeco and OD didn't get red-carpet-treatments last off-season. And out of Dunta, DeMeco, and OD, I see Kubiak/Smith desiring to give that sort of money to 'Meco or OD. Not Dunta.Ryans and OD weren't UFAs last season and they are not this season either unlike Dunta. In hindsight maybe we should have gone after Bodden, but again that's not the owner who missed that call and we offered OD a real good deal last year if you ask me

McNair wants other NFL "superstars" out there to see that he takes care of the Texans "superstars," because it's a P.R. stunt to draw them here. What superstar level of FA did we re-sign? Dunta wasn't that

I argue that we can sit here and point fingers at what moves are McNair's and what moves are coaching moves made by the coaches.I'm not educated or informed enough inside the Texans org to accurately give you a debate on this. But we can both specualte

And I don't buy the idea that Rick Smith grabs players and stuffs them onto Kubiak's roster without consulting Kubiak. That's a whole other conversation, though.Again I believe Kubiak has more input into personnel decisions with Smith making sure it can be beneficial financially (in present/future terms) or thru draft picks. See my responses in bold.

Also however small chance it may be, Dunta could still end up a Texan. What we know right now is that he was not franchised or signed to a new deal. Do we know for sure that the Texans are not just trying to see what his value is on the market?

Second Honeymoon
02-27-2010, 07:59 PM
So I'm guessing you're not that impressed with the pending free agent class? Well, have you considered the possibility that the free agent class will grow when some teams (or a lot of teams) dump big contracts without repercussions in this cap free season?

McNair has stated they aren't going to be players in the free agent game.

Even if he hadn't said that I wouldn't be that optimistic based on his track record regarding attracting top FAs.

also, JT. I love your optimism, but why you calling Pitts mediocre? Obviously a lot of fans have an axe to grind with Dunta, but what did Pitts do to earn your wrath? That guy was a helluva football player and one of the leaders in the locker room. Pitts has been a damn good football player for us, not great, but damn good. Guy has an injury and people want to throw him to the curb when he is a UFA. OD has an injury and people want to re-sign him even though he is just an RFA. What is that all about?

Where is this 'loyalty' and 'building through the draft' that McNair speaks of? Just sayin.

GP
02-27-2010, 08:41 PM
playa465,

Kubiak is McNair's kind of coach. They share the same attributes, IMO, in terms of the approach to playing veterans and playing favorites. It's what McNair means when he says "I have been grading Gary against other coaches in the NFL and I like what I see in Gary" (paraphrased). In short, McNair is saying that he "likes" Gary.

Liking is the flavor of the month for McNair. If he "likes" someone, well...do the math with David and Dunta's contracts. Because actual production and overall value to the team doesn't figure into the equation.

Our approach to potential players is that we're a nice place, nice facilities, good clean-cut atmosphere, etc., etc. That's fine with me (better than being known as murder's row). I just think it permeates everything and every nook and cranny of this team. It's almost overkill.

Just observation.

Joe Texan
02-27-2010, 10:15 PM
Pitts is coming off an injury and the Texans have never got the injury bug right, Maybe they know something we do not know. Pitts was all we had and he did a good job but he was not top 50% starting O lineman. He ws on the back half of the starters thus mediocre. And it could be we are making room for a better Player no one knows. SH you want to call out McNair on not going after FA when he is not a stupid man, if there is someone there we will grab em we just aint going after a 35 year old scrub like we have in the past.
Patients

GP
02-27-2010, 11:22 PM
Pitts is coming off an injury and the Texans have never got the injury bug right, Maybe they know something we do not know. Pitts was all we had and he did a good job but he was not top 50% starting O lineman. He ws on the back half of the starters thus mediocre. And it could be we are making room for a better Player no one knows. SH you want to call out McNair on not going after FA when he is not a stupid man, if there is someone there we will grab em we just aint going after a 35 year old scrub like we have in the past.
Patients

Doctor.

I love word association games.

Goatcheese
02-28-2010, 04:58 AM
So I'm guessing you're not that impressed with the pending free agent class? Well, have you considered the possibility that the free agent class will grow when some teams (or a lot of teams) dump big contracts without repercussions in this cap free season?

Teams will dump the contracts of underachievers. This is their opportunity to let go of bad situations like we had with Weaver, and old farts on their last leg.

Most of the good players are RFA or have already been Franchised. This was a bad year to let your own players walk.

record
02-28-2010, 08:48 AM
Teams will dump the contracts of underachievers. This is their opportunity to let go of bad situations like we had with Weaver, and old farts on their last leg.

Kinda like the Chiefs viewed Pollard last season? One man gathers what another man spills.

I don't understand the people who are already criticizing the Texans moves. Don't ya'll realize that the offseason has just begun? It's like criticizing a chef for his omellette when all he has done so far is crack the eggs. Until we know who is taking his place on the roster next season, we don't really know anything. I think the Texans brass feels confident they can replace Dunta with a more productive player at a cheaper price.

Lucky
02-28-2010, 08:53 AM
Teams will dump the contracts of underachievers.
Teams will dump bad contracts. That doesn't mean some of these guys can't still play.

I'm not one to sugar coat every move Smithiak makes. But, I'm not going to bash them until the results are in. And I find it laughable to dump on them before the process even begins. I knew last offseason (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1184187&postcount=268) that the Texans were not going to franchise Robinson for a 2nd year.

I don't know the plans the Texans have for replacing Robinson. I do know that secondary coach David Gibbs teaches techniques that might be easier for younger players to learn. As they have less to unlearn. I saw the Colts make it to the Super Bowl with 2 rookies of their top 3 corners. So playing young players is not an excuse to lose.

infantrycak
02-28-2010, 09:32 AM
Pitts is coming off an injury and the Texans have never got the injury bug right, Maybe they know something we do not know. Pitts was all we had and he did a good job but he was not top 50% starting O lineman. He ws on the back half of the starters thus mediocre.

Gonna have to differ with you here. Pitts was a very good LG. Season prior to injury he was a pro-bowl alternate at a position which gets no press or fan voting so coaches and players agreed he was good. Having said that, with his age and coming off an injury losing him isn't the end of the world. I certainly don't read anything into it like SH. Just looks like a business move to me if they are letting him go.

Joe Texan
02-28-2010, 10:12 AM
Who has jumped out of the woodwork to talk with Dunta. How do you know we don't let Dunta sit and pick up dust just to have him beg for a job before camp? I have not heard any talk that a team is interested in a guy who is mediocre at best and will Write pay me GM on his clothes when he does not get his way. Maybe Dunta needs to exercise the :voodoo: and in the words of Disney "Get you head in the Game".

Second Honeymoon
02-28-2010, 10:27 AM
Who has jumped out of the woodwork to talk with Dunta. How do you know we don't let Dunta sit and pick up dust just to have him beg for a job before camp? I have not heard any talk that a team is interested in a guy who is mediocre at best and will Write pay me GM on his clothes when he does not get his way. Maybe Dunta needs to exercise the :voodoo: and in the words of Disney "Get you head in the Game".

He will be with the Steelers or Giants, if you ask me. Both have dire needs at the position and both teams have a lot of their own RFA/UFA issues handled and negotiated, thus freeing them to concentrate on bringing some people in.

If anyone doesn't think Dunta is going to get big time paid they are kidding themselves. Also, anyone who has deluded themselves enough to think Dunta is going to 'beg to come back' is just off the charts insane.

Dunta is gone and we got nothing for him. Hooray for building through the draft.
Pitts will be gone by Tuesday and we got nothing for him. Hooray for building through the draft.
At least McNair spent the big money and retained DelJuan Robinson's services. Thats spending the big money right there.

McNair FTW

ChampionTexan
02-28-2010, 10:29 AM
Who has jumped out of the woodwork to talk with Dunta. How do you know we don't let Dunta sit and pick up dust just to have him beg for a job before camp? I have not heard any talk that a team is interested in a guy who is mediocre at best and will Write pay me GM on his clothes when he does not get his way. Maybe Dunta needs to exercise the :voodoo: and in the words of Disney "Get you head in the Game".

Free agency doesn't start until March 5 (unless you're a street free agent - which Dunta's not). Any contact - or even acknowledgement - prior to that would be tampering. For example, Ladainian's been released, and as such is a street FA. Rick Smith has indicated the Texans will take a look at him (whatever that actually means). Sproles isn't a street FA, and will not become available until 3/5 (other than to re-sign with San Diego). As such, no NFL team is supposed to even discuss him.

I feel confident that Dunta will see considerable interest once the time gets here (even though I'm not overly upset to see him go).

Lucky
02-28-2010, 10:40 AM
He will be with the Steelers or Giants, if you ask me.
I think Robinson winds up with a team playing a Tampa 2 scheme. Or back with Dom Capers in Green Bay.

steelbtexan
02-28-2010, 11:09 AM
I think Robinson winds up with a team playing a Tampa 2 scheme. Or back with Dom Capers in Green Bay.

On a Tampa 2 team Dunta will be very productive. IMHO

He just wasn't a good fit in a Bush defense/Gibbs secondary.

Norg
02-28-2010, 06:38 PM
Now the question is were will dunta go?????

Greenbay with capers
within the divison jags colts titans what if dunta had to cover
AJ next year LOL

Browns bills tho I think dunta would want to stay in the afc and take less money. NAaa what am I saying he will prob go for the team that pays him
the most

Texan_Bill
03-01-2010, 09:47 AM
If anyone doesn't think Dunta is going to get big time paid they are kidding themselves. Also, anyone who has deluded themselves enough to think Dunta is going to 'beg to come back' is just off the charts insane.


I know Dunta will be overpaid by someone. Some team will get all giddly like a little school girl at prom about him. Similar to the way Carolina got when they scored HWSRN.

I wouldn't take Dunta back if he begged me, or he "paid me Dunta" and loaned me his girlfriend.

HuttoKarl
03-01-2010, 09:48 AM
This thread is starting to make me wish we had another "Should I stay or should I go now? Sincerely, Kris Brown" Thread.

Texan_Bill
03-01-2010, 09:51 AM
This thread is starting to make me wish we had another "Should I stay or should I go now? Sincerely, Kris Brown" Thread.

Coming soon, to a message board near you.

steelbtexan
03-01-2010, 09:52 AM
This thread is starting to make me wish we had another "Should I stay or should I go now? Sincerely, Kris Brown" Thread.

I miss the sincerely Chris/Kris Brown threads.

HuttoKarl
03-01-2010, 10:03 AM
I miss the sincerely Chris/Kris Brown threads.

I don't think there is ANY question if CHris Brown should go....is there?