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m5kwatts
02-18-2010, 12:35 PM
He's still upset about his contract situation

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/02/18/owen-daniels-says-he-might-skip-training-camp/

This year, Daniels will be a restricted free agent again, due to the uncapped year and the shift of the minimum years of service for unrestricted free agency from four years to six. He recently told Tim Ryan and Pat Kirwan of Sirius NFL Radio that, even though a torn ACL will be healed by May, Daniels might wait even longer this year before signing.

"I might not even do training camp," Daniels said.

nero THE zero
02-18-2010, 12:37 PM
I'd be interested in hearing the entire interview to put that into context. The way it reads it's as if he's working under the idea that there's no chance a long-term contract is executed.

m5kwatts
02-18-2010, 12:39 PM
Yeah I didn't hear the interview, he doesn't sound like a guy who thinks he needs to re-prove himself after a pretty significant injury....Rick Smith and the org. won't have much sympathy I'm guessing

infantrycak
02-18-2010, 12:42 PM
Would you consider the Texans wrong to offer OD less money than he did last year or with more contingencies in it? I think that is reasonable but it sure might be a sticking point with OD. Would not at all be surprised to see him get a highest RFA tag or out of respect even a franchise tag ($5.9 mil for TEs).

BIG TORO
02-18-2010, 01:26 PM
damn that suck!

D-Frank
02-18-2010, 01:31 PM
good, more reps for casey

stingray
02-18-2010, 01:34 PM
I heard the entire interview, and it was more tongue in cheek, but you could tell by his tone in his voice that he will not be happy if he is not given a long term contract. He also said that Tony Hill don't take crap from no one. And that he can't really run any routes but he is a ferocious blocker.

disaacks3
02-18-2010, 01:36 PM
Great....another Texans player coming back from injury that doesn't think he needs the Training Camp reps to get himself ready. I hope the Texans get his situation under control faster than they did w/ Dunta, or we'll have the same crappy scenario all over again.

I've got no problem w/ the Texans franchising OD, he's definitely top-5 material (pre-injury).

BigBull17
02-18-2010, 01:39 PM
Great....another Texans player coming back from injury that doesn't think he needs the Training Camp reps to get himself ready. I hope the Texans get his situation under control faster than they did w/ Dunta, or we'll have the same crappy scenario all over again.

I've got no problem w/ the Texans franchising OD, he's definitely top-5 material (pre-injury).

No kidding. OD has more to prove this year than last year. Knee's arent anything to be ****ed with.

ATXtexanfan
02-18-2010, 02:29 PM
Nice to see dunta's leadership at work, j/k

Texecutioner
02-18-2010, 02:46 PM
And here we go again................:roast:

eriadoc
02-18-2010, 02:49 PM
I don't think he should do TC. He outperformed his contract, asked for a new deal that better reflected what he brought to the organization, and wanted to look out for what his main concern was (injury). Well, he was proven correct in his concerns, and he's also proven that he's one of the best TEs in the league. I'd tell the team that they can have TC when they fairly compensate. Then, when the season started, I'd play because I'm under contract, as crappy as it is.

Players get paid a pittance in TC. Coming off injury, it's definitely not worth it.

Dutchrudder
02-18-2010, 02:54 PM
It's too early to tell if OD really means this. If we see him mention it a few more times in other interviews, I think there will be cause for concern. As it is now, he is trying to get a good contract for multiple years from the Texans, so this is just a bit of indirect negotiating.

disaacks3
02-18-2010, 03:01 PM
I don't think he should do TC. He outperformed his contract, asked for a new deal that better reflected what he brought to the organization, and wanted to look out for what his main concern was (injury). Well, he was proven correct in his concerns, and he's also proven that he's one of the best TEs in the league. I'd tell the team that they can have TC when they fairly compensate. Then, when the season started, I'd play because I'm under contract, as crappy as it is.

Players get paid a pittance in TC. Coming off injury, it's definitely not worth it. If he's under contract in TC, and gets injured during a TC practice that extends into the regular season, is he not paid his existing contract $$?

Thorn
02-18-2010, 03:02 PM
And here we go again................:roast:

:spit:

Big Lou
02-18-2010, 03:34 PM
I don't think he should do TC. He outperformed his contract, asked for a new deal that better reflected what he brought to the organization, and wanted to look out for what his main concern was (injury). Well, he was proven correct in his concerns, and he's also proven that he's one of the best TEs in the league. I'd tell the team that they can have TC when they fairly compensate. Then, when the season started, I'd play because I'm under contract, as crappy as it is.

Players get paid a pittance in TC. Coming off injury, it's definitely not worth it.

How many players go to thier front offices and request a pay cut when they under perform when compared to thier contract?

I love me some OD, but it's a bidness and it works both ways. I didn't see Dunta give McNair a rebate check this year for bieng a $2 million dollar player as opposed to a $9 million dollar CB. I believe that it is in the Texans best interested to give OD a new deal because he did out play his original contract, but he is coming off a major injury. Why do the Texans or any franchise "have" to tear up a guys contract when they outplay it? It's the option of the Front Office.

eriadoc
02-18-2010, 03:41 PM
How many players go to thier front offices and request a pay cut when they under perform when compared to thier contract?

I love me some OD, but it's a bidness and it works both ways. I didn't see Dunta give McNair a rebate check this year for bieng a $2 million dollar player as opposed to a $9 million dollar CB. I believe that it is in the Texans best interested to give OD a new deal because he did out play his original contract, but he is coming off a major injury. Why do the Texans or any franchise "have" to tear up a guys contract when they outplay it? It's the option of the Front Office.

I didn't say how I'd handle it if I were in the front office. I agree, it's a business for both sides. If I'm OD, I'm viewing it exactly like a business deal and doing everything I can to protect my interests. Sorry if that doesn't line up with the front office, but the FO is going to do everything they can to protect their interests, regardless if it lines up with the players.

Fans are the ones left in the lurch, but they have to realize that the FO doesn't care about the fans anymore than the players.

Double Barrel
02-18-2010, 04:43 PM
Fans are the ones left in the lurch, but they have to realize that the FO doesn't care about the fans anymore than the players.

Oh, they care about the fans...the paying ones, at least. :shades:

I think it'll get worked out, though. OD is too valuable to this offense, and replacing him is nowhere near as easy as many fans have suggested.

TexansSeminole
02-18-2010, 04:50 PM
Oh, they care about the fans...the paying ones, at least. :shades:

I think it'll get worked out, though. OD is too valuable to this offense, and replacing him is nowhere near as easy as many fans have suggested.

We only have 3 real playmaking receivers on the team in AJ, OD, and Slaton. I hope the FO knows we can't afford to lose OD. Same goes for AJ, god forbid we ever lose him.

Knee injuries are tricky. You never really know how well someone is going to come back from it. The good thing about keeping OD here is that we have backups who can help ease him in or take over if he doesn't play well.

badboy
02-18-2010, 04:51 PM
We will now draft two TEs.

redwhiteANDblue
02-18-2010, 06:11 PM
We will now draft two TEs.

and here i am thinking TEs were the least of our worries

GP
02-18-2010, 10:24 PM
I don't see how anyone, not even Owen Daniels, can expect the Texans FO to just plop down the coin after not being able to evaluate OD coming off this injury.

Minus that injury, this is a no-brainer for all sides of this discussion.

But we can't undo what's been done. He needs to go through camp, and all pre-season games, to show that he's back.

If he's going to skip camp, will that extend into skipping pre-season games?

As much as 2009 was going to be the time and place for him to solidify his contract future with us...that's now been rolled forward into 2010 IMO. He was well on his way to being maybe the best TE in the NFL this season. So there's going to be some frustration there for him.

But knees? And with how he would drive off the snap, get up-field very quickly, and make cuts and run routes so well? There's a lot to be seen.

Big Lou
02-18-2010, 10:48 PM
I don't see how anyone, not even Owen Daniels, can expect the Texans FO to just plop down the coin after not being able to evaluate OD coming off this injury.
Minus that injury, this is a no-brainer for all sides of this discussion.

But we can't undo what's been done. He needs to go through camp, and all pre-season games, to show that he's back.

If he's going to skip camp, will that extend into skipping pre-season games?

As much as 2009 was going to be the time and place for him to solidify his contract future with us...that's now been rolled forward into 2010 IMO. He was well on his way to being maybe the best TE in the NFL this season. So there's going to be some frustration there for him.

But knees? And with how he would drive off the snap, get up-field very quickly, and make cuts and run routes so well? There's a lot to be seen.

I believe that the Dean of the Dunta Robinson School of Bussiness would strongly disagree!!!

CloakNNNdagger
02-18-2010, 10:54 PM
I heard the entire interview, and it was more tongue in cheek, but you could tell by his tone in his voice that he will not be happy if he is not given a long term contract. He also said that Tony Hill don't take crap from no one. And that he can't really run any routes but he is a ferocious blocker.


Funny, as I remember, in college he was known as a ferocious block as well as a very productive receiver.

houstonspartan
02-18-2010, 11:02 PM
I believe that the Dean of the Dunta Robinson School of Bussiness would strongly disagree!!!

LMFAO!!!!!!

Good one.

mattieuk
02-18-2010, 11:47 PM
OD's best attributes are in his head. He has more going on upstairs than Dunta in regards to playing the game...not that his knee isn't important, but his real ability lies in reading the coverage, and managing to run routes than land him open down under the middle, where Dunta's game pre-injury seemed to be based on his quick step to getting to a WR's route. I think even if his knee injury affects him a lot, his mental capacity for the game will help him a great deal.

Don't let OD walk. Tag him if necessary, keep OD.

Joe Texan
02-19-2010, 12:02 AM
If OD gets shafted and Dunta gets 10 mill then Rick Is not the Genious he is made out to be

barrett
02-19-2010, 01:47 AM
The thing that gets under my skin about this is that it's a very different situation than Robinson's. 23 was not under contract and technically had no reason to be in camp risking injury without a deal. It clearly effected his play but I could make sense of the philosophy even though I didn't agree with it in my Houston Texans dreamland that I live in where all the players are as in love with the Texans as I am. (Like this guy: http://twitpic.com/140wi7)

But the holdout clearly effected Robinson's play. It is almost certainly going to do the same for Open Daniels. As a player, under contract, that to me is sacrificing too much and it gets at me a bit. He's one of my favorite players on the team.

Lucky
02-19-2010, 07:21 AM
The thing that gets under my skin about this is that it's a very different situation than Robinson's. 23 was not under contract and technically had no reason to be in camp risking injury without a deal.

But the holdout clearly effected Robinson's play. It is almost certainly going to do the same for Open Daniels. As a player, under contract, that to me is sacrificing too much and it gets at me a bit. He's one of my favorite players on the team.
There is no difference, whatsoever. If the Texans fail to reach a long term contract with Daniels, they will either give him a restricted free agent tender or a franchise player tender. Daniels is under no obligation to sign either. And until he does, he will not be under contract. Just as Dunta wasn't until just before the season opener.

And the holdout "clearly" affecting Robinson's play is pure speculation on your part. Dunta hasn't played up to his pre-injury level since his return. It's not as if he got better as the season went by. Dunta just isn't as good as he once was. Training camp wasn't going to change that. For all of the bellyaching over Kubiak bashing, maybe some of you guys should ease back on the Robinson hating. The guy just isn't that good, anymore. And it's not his fault the Texans gave him close to $10million to find that out.

threetoedpete
02-19-2010, 11:59 AM
Would you consider the Texans wrong to offer OD less money than he did last year or with more contingencies in it? I think that is reasonable but it sure might be a sticking point with OD. Would not at all be surprised to see him get a highest RFA tag or out of respect even a franchise tag ($5.9 mil for TEs).

But O.D. and his agent aren't looking at it form the Texans perspective. They are looking to what Kellen Winslow Jr. got....what was it last year thirteen million over how many years last year ?

O.D. is looking to get paid. And know what ? He deserves to be paid. He's earned it. Worse thing he, or any player could do, is sign for short money with the CBA up in the air. No one knows at this point how that will shake out.

This is his shot at the brass ring, and good soldier or not, he is looking for his pay day. Whether or not that is with the Texans remains to be seen.

the fly in that ointment Lucky is that this horse doesn't have to drink. He's proven what he is, elite. And their are people willing to pay him top dollar. If ever a player deserved to hold out all season it's O.D. He's not making fair market. Pay him or trade him. I mean form my perspective if Farve has O.D. in his pocket they are the SB champions.

eriadoc
02-19-2010, 12:17 PM
O.D. is looking to get paid. And know what ? He deserves to be paid. He's earned it.

This is the sentiment that makes discussing this topic so difficult amongst fans. To quote Clint, "deserve's got nothin' to do with it". OD is trying to get the most he can out of a business deal and the team is trying to get the most out of a business deal. There are elements of unfairness on both sides, but there simply is no wrong or right. We fans just have to sit back and wait.

If you were in OD's shoes, you would want some measure of security. In fact, you would have wanted some measure of security in case you got injured. If you're the team, you want to pay as little as possible to get Pro Bowl caliber play at the position, and you want the ability to cut players on a whim. That is why NFL contracts are the way they are, and that's why players negotiate the way they negotiate. Unlike other sports, they can be let go with no contract consideration at any point, aside from signing bonus.

Contracts in the NFL are one-way contracts. Until that changes, these situations will continue to play out exactly like they've played out, and the fans are no consideration in the matter.

infantrycak
02-19-2010, 12:18 PM
But O.D. and his agent aren't looking at it form the Texans perspective. They are looking to what Kellen Winslow Jr. got....what was it last year thirteen million over how many years last year ?

O.D. is looking to get paid. And know what ? He deserves to be paid. He's earned it. Worse thing he, or any player could do, is sign for short money with the CBA up in the air. No one knows at this point how that will shake out.

He hasn't earned a contract after going down with injury. You also don't earn just any damn thing you want. He turned down elite TE money. At some point a team has to tell a player no more than X. Winslow signed a 6 year $36 mil contract and it was considered around the league to be a stupid contract. Given the injury I think he either has to take less than the offer last year or what I would suggest the Texans do is offer him the same total with less guaranteed but bonuses and new guarantees kick in if he hits certain performance points proving he is back to the old OD.

barrett
02-19-2010, 03:25 PM
There is no difference, whatsoever. If the Texans fail to reach a long term contract with Daniels, they will either give him a restricted free agent tender or a franchise player tender. Daniels is under no obligation to sign either. And until he does, he will not be under contract. Just as Dunta wasn't until just before the season opener.

And the holdout "clearly" affecting Robinson's play is pure speculation on your part. Dunta hasn't played up to his pre-injury level since his return. It's not as if he got better as the season went by. Dunta just isn't as good as he once was. Training camp wasn't going to change that. For all of the bellyaching over Kubiak bashing, maybe some of you guys should ease back on the Robinson hating. The guy just isn't that good, anymore. And it's not his fault the Texans gave him close to $10million to find that out.

It was clear to me that his play did actually improve as the season went on. It's not speculation. Perhaps you saw something differently. I'm not suggesting that he played at an elite level or anything, but he did clearly improve from week 1 to week 17.

I had forgotten that they have to sign the tender. Thanks for that tip.

Joe Texan
02-19-2010, 03:29 PM
Without him we lost 3 maybe 4 games, Those games would have put us in the playoffs, He is way more valuable than Drob. Unless you think pass interference is something that will help this team, in OD's Case it is but Drob is the one who get them.

Wolf
02-19-2010, 09:27 PM
Mike Florio of profootballtalk.com reported today that Texans tight end Owen Daniels is considering skipping training camp.

Daniels made the comments during an interview with Tim Ryan and Pat Kirwan of Sirius NFL Radio, according to the report.

Daniels, who is recovering from a torn ACL suffered at Buffalo on November 1, 2009, said during the interview that the knee would be healed by May.

I'm not a medic and have no direct knowledge of Daniels' health situation but in all my years watching the NFL, I don't think I've ever seen a NFL player 'healed' from a torn ACL in six months. I assume what he means is that he's on schedule - and I have no doubt that he's working as hard as he can to get back to full strength.

Daniels' comments are most certainly timed to coincide with the upcoming start of free agency on March 5. He wants people to know he's totally healthy - even though it's going to take a while for him to be back to normal.

As far as Daniels skipping training camp, he could probably use the time to rehab. But it's unlikely another protest will cause the Texans to change their mind on his contract situation.

This is an unfortunate situation for Daniels as he is a victim of bad luck and even worse timing.

Tearing an ACL is an NFL player's worst nightmare. Tearing an ACL in November of a contract year is even worse.

Add to that the unfortunate timing of an expiring CBA which puts Daniels and many others into a restricted free agent category for at least another year and it's easy to understand the frustration. Daniels was upset last year when a long term contract agreement couldn't be reached and he was forced to play under a one year RFA tender.

But it's not like the Texans refused to negotiate with Daniels.



http://www.examiner.com/x-778-Houston-Texans-Examiner~y2010m2d18-Daniels-boycott-solves-nothing

2slik4u
02-19-2010, 11:51 PM
This might be the beer talking but I say we pay OD a nice contract.....one that he feels good with and we feel good with....and get on with the offseason. We know how much he helps the team, we saw how much those two "rookies" filled in for him and we see the actual win/loss record without him (4 game losing streak??). I say keep him, make him a Texan for a long time (like SD did with Gates) and make the rest of the AFC south plan their defenses around a guy like him.

GP
02-20-2010, 10:53 AM
This might be the beer talking but I say we pay OD a nice contract.....one that he feels good with and we feel good with....and get on with the offseason. We know how much he helps the team, we saw how much those two "rookies" filled in for him and we see the actual win/loss record without him (4 game losing streak??). I say keep him, make him a Texan for a long time (like SD did with Gates) and make the rest of the AFC south plan their defenses around a guy like him.

It's the beer.

Pre-injury, I would say that he rightly deserves a very nice contract.

But he was injured. It happens.

No way can a team shell out the money for a guy who hasn't fully rehabilitated the injured knee yet. Even in Dunta's situation, he had rehabb'd his leg and was consistently working out and showing that he could make cuts and perform. OD's knee can't begin to be judged until around the month of May.

It would be the same if...

1. Hey, I have a great race horse named Maxamillion. He's won 90% of his races this year. Would you like to buy him for $200,000?

2. Then, Maxamillion injures his hoof in the next race. He can't race the rest of the season, and he has to have extensive therapy to recover.

3. Do you still want to buy Maxamillion for $200,000 before seeing him run his first race since the injury?

When it's your own money, it makes the situation a little bit different. And in the case of the Texans, the spending of the money affects other players.

beerlover
02-20-2010, 11:20 AM
did somebody mention :beer:

It's not about Owen much as it is about resolving the collective bargining agreement moving forward. The Texans approach is overly cautious - with a wait & see attitude. Don't read anymore into it than that :shades:

WWJD
02-20-2010, 11:36 AM
It almost seems like there are some contenious feelings between Owen and the front office. What that would be I don't know and haven't read but seems like he's being very bullish about the whole thing. Maybe his agent is telling him what to say...

steelbtexan
02-20-2010, 01:23 PM
He hasn't earned a contract after going down with injury. You also don't earn just any damn thing you want. He turned down elite TE money. At some point a team has to tell a player no more than X. Winslow signed a 6 year $36 mil contract and it was considered around the league to be a stupid contract. Given the injury I think he either has to take less than the offer last year or what I would suggest the Texans do is offer him the same total with less guaranteed but bonuses and new guarantees kick in if he hits certain performance points proving he is back to the old OD.

This is the exact situation as Duntas last year. Guy coming off serious knee injury (his 2nd torn ACL) who was offered a fair contract didn't take it and wants a do over.

Except OD was a top 5 TE therefore I could see being justified in givinghim the franchise tag.

I would try to trade OD for a 2nd rd pick. With the money saved by not resigning Dunta and OD the Texans could sign the top DT in FA and have a 1 and two 2nds and could fix the secondary the RB and OL in rds 1-3.

BTW this draft is loaded at the TE position. Colin Peek would be a good 4th rd pick. He reminds me alot of OD coming out of college.

Otherwise I would just franchise OD.

IDEXAN
02-20-2010, 01:36 PM
He should have taken the best deal offered last year.

IDEXAN
02-20-2010, 01:37 PM
He should have taken last years best deal.

Carr Bombed
02-20-2010, 04:35 PM
I have no problem with Owen skipping camp. He needs to just rehab that knee all the way up to the regular season.

Ole Miss Texan
02-22-2010, 11:46 AM
I don't get bothered by this as much as I used to... in part because I think we finally have a good team with really good players. I don't think if he skips training camp it will have much effect if any on the season. The other TE's will get more reps which is needed. The thing you have to worry about in this situation is the timing between the QB and the Receiver. OD and Schaub are some of the best at their respective positions and I think they will pick up on their timing pretty quickly and easily.

Plus OD has been rehabbing all offseason and working out a lot. He's not a slouch that will be doing nothing.


What I do get upset about are rookies that hold out ala Jamarcus Russell and Michael Crabtree. The rookies and the new guys.

HoustonFrog
02-23-2010, 11:31 AM
This is ESPN Insider so tell me if it is right or wrong to post the info since not everyone gets the link

Pats make a play for Owen...not likely

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/features/rumors

To paraphrase, a writer in Boston would love the Pats to go after Daniels but admits that it is highly unlikely.

steelbtexan
02-23-2010, 11:45 AM
RFA tender OD and see if the Pats would give up their two 2's for OD.

I think this would be a fair trade.

RD1 Wilson
RD2 Mathews
RD2 Asamoah
RD2 Cody
RD3 Burnett
RD4 Best TE my favorite would be Colin Peek.

This would allow Smithiak to fill all of the teams needs. It would eliminate the possible OD holdout situation.

This trade would give value for both teams and keep the payroll down. Which is a big thing for McNair. (Win-Win for both teams IMHO)

eriadoc
02-23-2010, 12:13 PM
This is ESPN Insider so tell me if it is right or wrong to post the info since not everyone gets the link

I believe the TOS allows a small blurb accompanied by the link. Don't quote me, though.

infantrycak
02-23-2010, 12:56 PM
I believe the TOS allows a small blurb accompanied by the link. Don't quote me, though.

We don't allow quoting of paid for/premium content. You can provide a link that those with memberships can follow and folks with memberships can read and paraphrase in their posts.

badboy
02-23-2010, 01:03 PM
But O.D. and his agent aren't looking at it form the Texans perspective. They are looking to what Kellen Winslow Jr. got....what was it last year thirteen million over how many years last year ?

O.D. is looking to get paid. And know what ? He deserves to be paid. He's earned it. Worse thing he, or any player could do, is sign for short money with the CBA up in the air. No one knows at this point how that will shake out.

This is his shot at the brass ring, and good soldier or not, he is looking for his pay day. Whether or not that is with the Texans remains to be seen.

the fly in that ointment Lucky is that this horse doesn't have to drink. He's proven what he is, elite. And their are people willing to pay him top dollar. If ever a player deserved to hold out all season it's O.D. He's not making fair market. Pay him or trade him. I mean form my perspective if Farve has O.D. in his pocket they are the SB champions.Correction. He has proved what he was prior to injury. No one knows today what he is or will be.

badboy
02-23-2010, 01:16 PM
Hey Owen! I got this really great idea. You get a Marks A Lot and a pair of your game day shoes....

GuerillaBlack
02-23-2010, 02:10 PM
OD, you take that RFA tender. Then, play well, and you'll probably get an extension midseason.

HoustonFrog
02-23-2010, 02:52 PM
We don't allow quoting of paid for/premium content. You can provide a link that those with memberships can follow and folks with memberships can read and paraphrase in their posts.

Thanks, I'll change it

BigBull17
02-23-2010, 03:44 PM
RFA tender OD and see if the Pats would give up their two 2's for OD.

I think this would be a fair trade.

RD1 Wilson
RD2 Mathews
RD2 Asamoah
RD2 Cody
RD3 Burnett
RD4 Best TE my favorite would be Colin Peek.

This would allow Smithiak to fill all of the teams needs. It would eliminate the possible OD holdout situation.

This trade would give value for both teams and keep the payroll down. Which is a big thing for McNair. (Win-Win for both teams IMHO)


God no. You don't get better giving up a top 3 tight end, to an AFC team no less, for two 2nd round picks. No way no how.

BSofA04
02-23-2010, 04:33 PM
God no. You don't get better giving up a top 3 tight end, to an AFC team no less, for two 2nd round picks. No way no how.

I agree with you. However, I believe the scenario steelbtexan proposed should be only if Daniels is asking for a ridiculous sum of money in the near future. But since he's a RFA coming off an injured season, he has no leverage other than to formally ask for a trade through his agent to a team that's willing to make a long term commitment.

GP
02-23-2010, 04:49 PM
Correction. He has proved what he was prior to injury. No one knows today what he is or will be.

Exactly.

This is like someone wanting to sell you a race horse. But the horse injures his hoof, and he has a long recovery ahead of him. He's nearly back, and the owner wants to know if you still want to buy him.

Do you buy him for the same price as before the injury? Do you buy him at all?

Plus, this is not his first ACL injury (IIRC). He's had this happen before. So I think, in this case, he has to show that he's all the way back...before he gets the new contract.

Otherwise, tender him and get draft picks if someone else wants to put the kind of faith in OD that I personally wouldn't place in him right now. The injury played a role in ruining 2009 for the team and all us fans, IMO, but most of all it has set OD back from getting what he was well on his way to earning had he finished 2009.

Going to be interesting to see how each side will approach this situation. I bank on Owen and his agent(s) saying he demands the new contract without even playing a down. Can't blame them for trying (if they do try it) and can't blame the Texans if they refuse. That's show business.

JB
02-23-2010, 05:03 PM
Exactly.

This is like someone wanting to sell you a race horse. But the horse injures his hoof, and he has a long recovery ahead of him. He's nearly back, and the owner wants to know if you still want to buy him.

Do you buy him for the same price as before the injury? Do you buy him at all?

Plus, this is not his first ACL injury (IIRC). He's had this happen before. So I think, in this case, he has to show that he's all the way back...before he gets the new contract.

Otherwise, tender him and get draft picks if someone else wants to put the kind of faith in OD that I personally wouldn't place in him right now. The injury played a role in ruining 2009 for the team and all us fans, IMO, but most of all it has set OD back from getting what he was well on his way to earning had he finished 2009.

Going to be interesting to see how each side will approach this situation. I bank on Owen and his agent(s) saying he demands the new contract without even playing a down. Can't blame them for trying (if they do try it) and can't blame the Texans if they refuse. That's show business.

:goodpost:

I agree with this. OD and his agent will take the stance of "look what I was doing" and the Texans will be asking "what can you do for us now?"

Blake
02-25-2010, 10:15 AM
OD should not get a long term contract yet. And I hope he follows through and skips TC so I can see how Texan Talk members respond.

gary
02-28-2010, 02:12 PM
OD should not get a long term contract yet. And I hope he follows through and skips TC so I can see how Texan Talk members respond.I'd be upset just like I was with Dunte but I'd like to see the F.O. sit down with O.D. and tell if he comes back and plays well then a long term deal may be signed mid season or right after the season.

steelbtexan
02-28-2010, 03:14 PM
This is OD's 2nd torn ACL.

I'm not willing to gamble there wont be a 3rd torn ACL. This seems to be a reoccurring theme. It's time to get ehat you can in the way of draft choices and move on.

A torn ACL will affect his blocking more than his receiving. IMO

You have to have explosion to be a good blocker and having a bad wheel is going to hurt his production in the run game. Kubes said he wants to improve the run game next year. I'm not sure OD is going to be what Kubes wants out of the TE position in the run game.

Moeaki, Pitta and Peek should all be there in the 4/5th rds. They are virtual OD clones without the injury concerns.

And no OD is not a top 3 TE.

Gates, Gonzales,Clark,V.Davis Whitten and H.Miller are better all around TE's than OD. (blocking included)

OD is one of my favorite Texans.

Brisco_County
02-28-2010, 03:18 PM
...since he's a RFA coming off an injured season, he has no leverage other than to formally ask for a trade through his agent to a team that's willing to make a long term commitment.

This is the answer. It's a formality, and skipping camp is probably more beneficial for recovery than it is for negotiations.

Carr Bombed
02-28-2010, 07:43 PM
OD should not get a long term contract yet. And I hope he follows through and skips TC so I can see how Texan Talk members respond.

LOL, you're not really trying to compare this to the Dunta Robinson situation are you?

Dunta was a unrestricted FA who turned down a contract that would've made him one of the highest paid corners in the entire league.....then he was offered 9 million dollars to play football for one season and he sat at home and bitched the entire time. He then made a complete ass out of himself when he came back.

Owen Daniels is a RFA who's completed out performed his current contract. (unlike Dunta "look at my shoes" Robinson) :rolleyes: He's looking for a new deal that better fits his level of play....and I don't have one problem with him holding out. (same goes for DeMeco if he decides to go that route, DeMeco and Owen haven't been given the opportunity to foolishly turn down a contract that would make them one of the highest paid players at their position yet) Especially since he's coming off of a injury, that way he can rehab and strengthen that knee all the way up until the regular season.

JB
03-01-2010, 08:53 AM
LOL, you're not really trying to compare this to the Dunta Robinson situation are you?

Dunta was a unrestricted FA who turned down a contract that would've made him one of the highest paid corners in the entire league.....then he was offered 9 million dollars to play football for one season and he sat at home and bitched the entire time. He then made a complete ass out of himself when he came back.

Owen Daniels is a RFA who's completed out performed his current contract. (unlike Dunta "look at my shoes" Robinson) :rolleyes: He's looking for a new deal that better fits his level of play....and I don't have one problem with him holding out. (same goes for DeMeco if he decides to go that route, DeMeco and Owen haven't been given the opportunity to foolishly turn down a contract that would make them one of the highest paid players at their position yet) Especially since he's coming off of a injury, that way he can rehab and strengthen that knee all the way up until the regular season.

I thought both OD and Demeco turned down contract offers that would pay them in the top 5 range for their positions last offseason?

ChampionTexan
03-01-2010, 09:07 AM
I thought both OD and Demeco turned down contract offers that would pay them in the top 5 range for their positions last offseason?

I don't know if it was top 5 or top 10, but according to McClain (the original source of the LT offer for Dunta), yes they did.

HOU-TEX
03-01-2010, 09:59 AM
This is OD's 2nd torn ACL.

I'm not willing to gamble there wont be a 3rd torn ACL. This seems to be a reoccurring theme. It's time to get ehat you can in the way of draft choices and move on.

A torn ACL will affect his blocking more than his receiving. IMO

You have to have explosion to be a good blocker and having a bad wheel is going to hurt his production in the run game. Kubes said he wants to improve the run game next year. I'm not sure OD is going to be what Kubes wants out of the TE position in the run game.

Moeaki, Pitta and Peek should all be there in the 4/5th rds. They are virtual OD clones without the injury concerns.

And no OD is not a top 3 TE.

Gates, Gonzales,Clark,V.Davis Whitten and H.Miller are better all around TE's than OD. (blocking included)

OD is one of my favorite Texans.

2nd ACL tear, but different knee.

steelbtexan
03-01-2010, 10:10 AM
2nd ACL tear, but different knee.

That's more comforting.

I guess

infantrycak
03-01-2010, 10:24 AM
(same goes for DeMeco if he decides to go that route, DeMeco and Owen haven't been given the opportunity to foolishly turn down a contract that would make them one of the highest paid players at their position yet)

Agreed generally with your post but this part is wrong. The Texans offered to make OD the 3rd highest paid TE in the league and DeMeco somewhere in the top 5 LBs in the league and they turned them down.

BigBull17
03-01-2010, 12:04 PM
This is OD's 2nd torn ACL.

I'm not willing to gamble there wont be a 3rd torn ACL. This seems to be a reoccurring theme. It's time to get ehat you can in the way of draft choices and move on.

A torn ACL will affect his blocking more than his receiving. IMO

You have to have explosion to be a good blocker and having a bad wheel is going to hurt his production in the run game. Kubes said he wants to improve the run game next year. I'm not sure OD is going to be what Kubes wants out of the TE position in the run game.

Moeaki, Pitta and Peek should all be there in the 4/5th rds. They are virtual OD clones without the injury concerns.

And no OD is not a top 3 TE.

Gates, Gonzales,Clark,V.Davis Whitten and H.Miller are better all around TE's than OD. (blocking included)

OD is one of my favorite Texans.

Heath Miller...? Vernon Davis....? No. OD has been better than them for a longer period of time. Davis is a one year wonder type, and I've never really been impressed with Miller. Gonzo is the best ever, but now I think OD is a better player. Gates Clark Whitten and OD would be the best in the game. In some order.

Texecutioner
03-01-2010, 12:14 PM
Heath Miller...? Vernon Davis....? No. OD has been better than them for a longer period of time. Davis is a one year wonder type, and I've never really been impressed with Miller. Gonzo is the best ever, but now I think OD is a better player. Gates Clark Whitten and OD would be the best in the game. In some order.

Miller is one of the best TE's in the entire league has been for years. He just isn't used as a big time pass catching threat in that offense and is asked to block more often than most TE's. He's easily one of the best pass blocking TE's in the entire league. When Pittsburgh throws the ball to Miller the guy makes a ton of plays though. He's very reliable.

edo783
03-03-2010, 12:24 AM
OD skipping training camp is pretty much a non issue IMO. He needs the extra time to heal and he is an RFA, so he isn't going anywhere. The risk is that he plays really well and hits the market as a UFA and we can't afford to keep him after this next season. However, given his injury history, I think I bet on the side of caution. Meco, that's another story and I would like to see him locked down. No rush yet as He is also an RFA, but we need to get something done in the next 6-9 months.

GP
03-03-2010, 11:19 PM
Agreed generally with your post but this part is wrong. The Texans offered to make OD the 3rd highest paid TE in the league and DeMeco somewhere in the top 5 LBs in the league and they turned them down.

Yeah, there was a time when OD was going public with stuff, and then all of a sudden it all stopped. As if he and 'Meco somehow figured out that they were mayyybe not getting the best contract counsel from their agent.

I remember that. There was some snippy comments from DeMeco and OD, sort of building upon the grumbling of Dunta...and then one day they started singing a different tune.

My bet is that they played off of Dunta's attitude of discontent, tried to play "tough guy" by refusing the money the Texans offered them, and then quickly found out that now the offer is going to start decreasing if they keep up the shenanigans.

I think Rick Smith is a cold-blooded killa' when it comes to contracts. I can't prove it, but my instincts tell me (from observing the other contracts that Rick Smith has orchestrated--including the unceremonious CUT of David Carr once we got Schaub) that Rick Smith don't jack around.

I can't prove it, but I also think that McNair is the one who pushed for Dunta to get one more season at a whopping $9 million. That crime of passion has Bobby McNair's fingerprints all over it, IMO. I don't see Smithiak willfully allowing Dunta to act the way he did, sit out for so long, get paid like Rick James, be able to write crap on his shoes, etc. If Kubiak left Jacoby's ass in Houston for a divisional game vs. the Jags, you know dang well that Smithiak would have washed their hands of Dunta Robinson if they had the chance.

Geez, Smithiak has 'Meco and OD right there in the palm of their hands and they won't give them contracts. How much more would we be able to envision them refusing to pay Dunta Robinson $9 million for a one-shot season after the crap he pulled in the of-season? That's where things don't match up for me. That's where I think McNair is hands-on with the contracts of the ones he thinks are NFL superstars, and the other 50 players on the roster are entrusted with Smithiak.

I know there's a quote from Kubiak where he says he believes Dunta got better as the season went along, and that his best game was the last one. We also have it on record where Kubiak said he thinks he can work with David Carr and make him a stud QB. In the end, Gurry Kubiak is proving to be very agile in the way he presents things and conducts his business as HC.

I gotta' give him credit for that much.

gwallaia
03-03-2010, 11:26 PM
I would love for a professional football player to get a real job in the real world.

Blake
03-04-2010, 01:39 PM
LOL, you're not really trying to compare this to the Dunta Robinson situation are you?

Dunta was a unrestricted FA who turned down a contract that would've made him one of the highest paid corners in the entire league.....then he was offered 9 million dollars to play football for one season and he sat at home and bitched the entire time. He then made a complete ass out of himself when he came back.

Owen Daniels is a RFA who's completed out performed his current contract. (unlike Dunta "look at my shoes" Robinson) :rolleyes: He's looking for a new deal that better fits his level of play....and I don't have one problem with him holding out. (same goes for DeMeco if he decides to go that route, DeMeco and Owen haven't been given the opportunity to foolishly turn down a contract that would make them one of the highest paid players at their position yet) Especially since he's coming off of a injury, that way he can rehab and strengthen that knee all the way up until the regular season.

C'mon Carr Bombed. At least research that before you say it like it is true. So now that you know OD and DeMeco BOTH turned down contract offers that would make them top 5 paid at the position, do you still think of them any differently than Dunta?

Not to mention OD is threatening to hold out of TC.

I just want to know if you still feel the same way about them.

Second Honeymoon
03-04-2010, 01:49 PM
C'mon Carr Bombed. At least research that before you say it like it is true. So now that you know OD and DeMeco BOTH turned down contract offers that would make them top 5 paid at the position, do you still think of them any differently than Dunta?

Not to mention OD is threatening to hold out of TC.

I just want to know if you still feel the same way about them.

no, everyone will clamor for OD to get paid even though he is coming off a major knee injury. why the difference in treatment? I have my suspicions but your guess is as good as mine.

keyser
03-04-2010, 03:52 PM
C'mon Carr Bombed. At least research that before you say it like it is true. So now that you know OD and DeMeco BOTH turned down contract offers that would make them top 5 paid at the position, do you still think of them any differently than Dunta?

Not to mention OD is threatening to hold out of TC.

I just want to know if you still feel the same way about them.

I'm not Carr Bombed, but I'll reply as to why I think things are different for them compared to Dunta.


OD and DeMeco are both pro-bowl players. I expect pro-bowlers to receive higher payouts than non pro-bowlers. They have more of a reason to demand it.
Dunta complained about getting a franchise tag. Almost $10 million for one year!! That's a lot more than the RFA tags are. You could easily argue that DeMeco and OD are being underpaid at the RFA tag value; you can't do that at the franchise tag level, especially for Dunta. If we were giving OD or DeMeco $10 million for one year, and they complained about being treated badly, yeah, I would be upset with them.
Even after he had no other options besides the franchise tag, Dunta held out of camp. This hurt his own performance and the team's. DeMeco and OD have not done this (yet), though OD could have done so last year. If we get to the point where they have no option but to sign or not play, and they choose to sit out, then yes, I'll be annoyed with them. Again, though, I don't think this would be as bad as with Dunta, considering that the RFA tag is so much lower than the franchise tag - I'd be somewhat less annoyed with them than I was with Dunta.
Finally, we know little about the parameters of the offers to DeMeco and OD. Dunta's offer details were widely circulated; to the point that they would have probably been refuted if they were inaccurate. Most everyone felt that the Texans were being very generous in their offer to Dunta; I'm not sure I've heard anyone argue that their offer was lower than it should have been. For OD and DeMeco, we don't know what the offers were, in terms of being "top 5 at their position" - there are a lot of ways that an offer could be structured where you could reach "top 5", but a young pro-bowl player would reasonably feel that it wasn't enough.


In summary, non-probowler Dunta (after one partial post-injury season when he wasn't 100%) was given an offer that almost everyone agrees was more than fair, turned it down (OK so far), then is given a ton of money for a 1 year contract. Instead of playing in what might not be his favorite circumstances, he holds out of camp and complains about being treated badly. You've got to be kidding.

Meanwhile, we have prowbowlers DeMeco and OD, offered deals that were probably OK but not great, and instead they are forced to play for much less money on a 1-year contract (OD last year, or both of them this year) than they could earn in Free Agency. They've got a much stronger case as far as not getting paid what they're worth, but haven't been going on about being mistreated by the organization and haven't held out of camp (yet).

To me, these aren't equivalent cases, and even if OD and/or DeMeco act like Dunta this year (I really hope not), I think they have a much stronger basis for doing so than he did.

BigTimeTexanFan
03-04-2010, 08:11 PM
no, everyone will clamor for OD to get paid even though he is coming off a major knee injury. why the difference in treatment? I have my suspicions but your guess is as good as mine.

I have been reading your crap for a while now and have generally brushed it off as something along the lines of a 15 year old trying to get attention, but this is ridiculous. Good Luck in life, sir. You will need it with such a negative outlook.

Kaiser Toro
03-06-2010, 10:10 AM
Some young eager Texan fan should alert OD, the Texans or NFL.com that there is a typo on his NFL.com profile. Not a big thing, but a mistake nonetheless.

Second Honeymoon
03-06-2010, 10:18 AM
I have been reading your crap for a while now and have generally brushed it off as something along the lines of a 15 year old trying to get attention, but this is ridiculous. Good Luck in life, sir. You will need it with such a negative outlook.

whatever dude. go take a sunshine bath in a cascade of rainbows.

i don't think i will lose any sleep over the opinion of 'bigtimetexanfan'...just sayin'

Kaiser Toro
03-06-2010, 10:26 AM
whatever dude. go take a sunshine bath in a cascade of rainbows.

i don't think i will lose any sleep over the opinion of 'bigtimetexanfan'...just sayin'

Dude, come on. You take hard line stances, of course you are going to get some hard line retorts that could get personal. Although they may blur the line of message board protocol, could you at least let some of them just roll off rather than pour some gasoline on them?

You bring flavor, just pick your battles and weave some topical content within it.

Second Honeymoon
03-06-2010, 10:34 AM
Dude, come on. You take hard line stances, of course you are going to get some hard line retorts that could get personal. Although they may blur the line of message board protocol, could you at least let some of them just roll off rather than pour some gasoline on them?

You bring flavor, just pick your battles and weave some topical content within it.

will do, KT.

infantrycak
03-06-2010, 10:47 AM
Dude, come on. You take hard line stances, of course you are going to get some hard line retorts that could get personal. Although they may blur the line of message board protocol, could you at least let some of them just roll off rather than pour some gasoline on them?

You bring flavor, just pick your battles and weave some topical content within it.

will do, KT.

What both of you said. Just for reinforcement.