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View Full Version : Lack of CBA Agreement benefits Texans


JWarren14
02-16-2010, 02:37 PM
Haven't really thought about this too much, just want to get our guys resigned, but I was just reading about how the lack of a CBA will really benefit us in the offseason.

ESPN Rumor Central: "With so many of their key players in free-agent situations, the Houston Texans may be able to take advantage of the lack of a collective bargaining agreement as much as any team in football.

In summarizing free agency, ESPN.com's AFC South blogger Paul Kuharsky writes that "The lack of a CBA will benefit the Texans more than anyone in the division because middle linebacker DeMeco Ryans and tight end Owen Daniels will be restricted rather than unrestricted."

This will give the Texans the opportunity to match any deal offered to Ryans and Daniels, rather than playing versus an open market, and since the cap itself would be a non-factor, they could conceivably match any offer sheet without salary cap ramifications.

The lack of such problems could help the Texans take care of cornerback Dunta Robinson's situation, perhaps without having to place the franchise tag on him for the second straight year."

Paul Kuharsky blog (http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/18314/free-agency-afc-south) about AFC South FA situation:Houston Texans

Unrestricted free agents: CB Dunta Robinson, WR Kevin Walter

Key figures: The lack of a CBA will benefit the Texans more than anyone in the division, because middle linebacker DeMeco Ryans and tight end Owen Daniels will be restricted rather than unrestricted. Cornerback Dunta Robinson was ticked off at being franchised last year. Will they do it again? Receiver Kevin Walter didnít have a great year, but is a valuable piece who could be attractive to a team looking for a No. 2 wideout.


The Titans will have a lot to think about in FA all UFA - Eugene Amano, LB Keith Bulluck, TE Alge Crumpler, CB Nick Harper, P Craig Hentrich, DE Jevon Kearse, C Kevin Mawae, DE Kyle Vanden Bosch

nero THE zero
02-16-2010, 02:42 PM
The idea that this helps us is terribly shortsighted. Having either of these guys, much less both come into camp disgruntled again! would have ill-fated consequences down the line.

The lack of a CBA helps teams with a lot of bad contracts more than anyone else, because those teams can cut those contracts without any ramifications. So, if this were the '06 Texans the CBA disagreement would be of great use; this year? Not so much.

HOU-TEX
02-16-2010, 02:50 PM
The idea that this helps us is terribly shortsighted. Having either of these guys, much less both come into camp disgruntled again! would have ill-fated consequences down the line.
The lack of a CBA helps teams with a lot of bad contracts more than anyone else, because those teams can cut those contracts without any ramifications. So, if this were the '06 Texans the CBA disagreement would be of great use; this year? Not so much.

I agree with that in D-Ryans case, but I think OD realizes he'll be tendered again due to his injury.

If D-Ryans isn't offered a reasonable deal to lock him up long term, I'm not going to blame him one bit if he comes back in pissed off. Hell, I'm going to be pissed off too. He deserves it more than anybody, IMO

Dutchrudder
02-16-2010, 03:09 PM
Benefits the team? No. Benefits the fans? No. Benefits the bottom line of the owners? Yes.

JWarren14
02-16-2010, 03:43 PM
I have no doubt we will re-sign our main guys to solid deals to make them happy, but I am just glad we aren't competing with the open market and risking other teams throwing crazy money around and signing our guys away.

We will lock up the core of our team to keep with the "continuity" of the franchise, but it helps us that we don't have to worry about the Dan Snyder's of the league throwing $XXX millions at DRyans and OD without getting something back in return no?

nero THE zero
02-16-2010, 03:52 PM
I have no doubt we will re-sign our main guys to solid deals to make them happy, but I am just glad we aren't competing with the open market and risking other teams throwing crazy money around and signing our guys away.

We will lock up the core of our team to keep with the "continuity" of the franchise, but it helps us that we don't have to worry about the Dan Snyder's of the league throwing $XXX millions at DRyans and OD without getting something back in return no?

You also have to consider that last year Smith might have been working under the assumption that these guys would be restricted again this year. If there were no CBA uncertainty, then he might have operated differently in regards to their negotiations.

Hervoyel
02-16-2010, 04:49 PM
The Titans will have a lot to think about in FA all UFA - Eugene Amano, LB Keith Bulluck, TE Alge Crumpler, CB Nick Harper, P Craig Hentrich, DE Jevon Kearse, C Kevin Mawae, DE Kyle Vanden Bosch


I see a lot of old guys in that list. I don't think it will be as much of a problem for them as the list would indicate.

Malloy
02-18-2010, 04:46 AM
IMo the lack of a CBA will hurt everyone, including the owners. Sure they _might_ save a few bucks right now, but as with other leagues, too much of a discrepancy in team quality in the league will hurt the NFL as a whole. Lockout... just look at what happened with the NHL...

Last but not least, sure it would be sad to see Demeco and OD grumpy, but honestly... there are 2 sides in this conflict and Demeco and OD is being represented by one of the sides. If they're pissy... take it up with their player union, they're the ones negotionating after all :)

nero THE zero
02-18-2010, 07:57 AM
Last but not least, sure it would be sad to see Demeco and OD grumpy, but honestly... there are 2 sides in this conflict and Demeco and OD is being represented by one of the sides. If they're pissy... take it up with their player union, they're the ones negotionating after all :)

The players' union has essentially nothing to do with the inability of Rick Smith and their respective agents to reach a long term contract.

TexanBacker93
02-18-2010, 08:18 AM
I might help in the short run only because you can match the offer from another team. I can see Demeco being upset if the only long term offer he gets is from another team and then the Texans match it.

Where no CBA hurts the Texans more than most teams is this team seems on the cusp of being something. With no CBA a lockout is probably going to happen and this will be a big loss to a team going into their prime.

I'd rather get Demeco, Pollard, and OD locked up to good contracts and have a CBA in place so we don't run the risk of having a lockout. If there is one I wonder if season ticket holders will still have to pay for the tickets.

disaacks3
02-18-2010, 09:23 AM
The difference between FA & RFA is huge. It still allows teams to throw a ridiculous offer at a particular player and see if his current team will match it. Normally, this is a no-brainer as "offering" teams still have to deal with the cap. Since that wouldn't apply here, a team that REALLY wants a good young MLB could offer Meco a monstrous deal that front loads the contract (for future cap purposes) and allows a team to OVERpay without any long-term ramifications.

OD will be viewed differently (like Dunta) due to his coming back from injury. Don't expect many huge deals to be thrown at him anytime soon.

I expect hell will freeze over before the Texans would franchise Dunta again. Serioulsly, is the any rational human being that thinks Dunta was worth the nearly $10 mil he was paid last year? I'd love the Texans to simnply ignore he and his agent and see what the market offers him. Only if the Texans were confident that he could return to his pre-injury form and effectiveness, could I see them slapping him with the franchise tag again. Unless they've got different footage to view than his 16-game performance this past season, I can't imagine the Texans offering him more than 5-6 mil/yr at best.

stevn8r
02-18-2010, 09:32 AM
You also have to consider that last year Smith might have been working under the assumption that these guys would be restricted again this year. If there were no CBA uncertainty, then he might have operated differently in regards to their negotiations.

That was my thinking all along....why rush to get a deal done when you are sure you are going to have the players for the last year of the CBA and you knew new rules were coming?
O.D. and Ryans may get better deals than what they were expecting and the front office will have the ability to do more than they would have in free agency....seems like Bob and Rick were gambling a little bit...which is fine with me!
Any time there is negotiations you are sure to have a little of this :slapfight:
My dream is Earl Thomas drafted, Ryans and O.D. signed

JB
02-18-2010, 09:55 AM
The difference between FA & RFA is huge. It still allows teams to throw a ridiculous offer at a particular player and see if his current team will match it. Normally, this is a no-brainer as "offering" teams still have to deal with the cap. Since that wouldn't apply here, a team that REALLY wants a good young MLB could offer Meco a monstrous deal that front loads the contract (for future cap purposes) and allows a team to OVERpay without any long-term ramifications.

Isn't that the poison pill contract that they worked so hard to eliminate? And if the Texans did not match, the other team would have to give up a 1st & 3rd pick and have to pay the ridiculous contract. I do not see that happening, and imo Ryans wants to stay here and help take it to the nezxt level.

infantrycak
02-18-2010, 10:07 AM
Isn't that the poison pill contract that they worked so hard to eliminate? And if the Texans did not match, the other team would have to give up a 1st & 3rd pick and have to pay the ridiculous contract. I do not see that happening, and imo Ryans wants to stay here and help take it to the nezxt level.

First they haven't eliminated poison pills but front loading a contract wouldn't be a poison pill. A poison pill would be San Diego offering DeMeco a 7 year $70 mil deal which becomes fully guaranteed if he plays more than 5 games a season in Texas. A term which punishes the original team but not the offering team.

Section516
02-18-2010, 10:13 AM
Well, It can benefit the Texans.

Front load a contract with Meco, Pollard, and OD. Big bucks. Use the year to our advantage.

But just not resigning them because you don't have to? Bad. We gotta keep the players happy. We gotta have them want something to play for.

El Tejano
02-18-2010, 10:31 AM
Well, It can benefit the Texans.

Front load a contract with Meco, Pollard, and OD. Big bucks. Use the year to our advantage.

But just not resigning them because you don't have to? Bad. We gotta keep the players happy. We gotta have them want something to play for.

Michael Irvin said the same thing once about Reggie Bush being re-signed by N.O. He said that even though Reggie doesn't carry the rock for you as much, he still scores TDs but on top of that he was part of the turnaround that took place in N.O.

For this reason, you sign that kid because you tell the team that we are a family and we are going to take care of the core members of this family. The rest of the locker room seees it and then you get players playing their hearts out.

JB
02-18-2010, 10:34 AM
First they haven't eliminated poison pills but front loading a contract wouldn't be a poison pill. A poison pill would be San Diego offering DeMeco a 7 year $70 mil deal which becomes fully guaranteed if he plays more than 5 games a season in Texas. A term which punishes the original team but not the offering team.

ok Thanks!

awtysst
02-18-2010, 12:25 PM
I would offer Demeco a nice long term contract that is heavily foreward loaded, almost like a major signing bonus. That way he makes his money, he gets it up front, and we pay him big during the uncap year. Then when the salary cap returns, his contract will be manageble.

I would offer OD an incentive laden deal with minimum escaltors that becomes a Demeco type deal (ie front loaded) if he meets basic requirments.

I would put a DR on a tender and see if i can get a team to give up a 2nd rounder or so for him.

infantrycak
02-18-2010, 12:58 PM
I would put a DR on a tender and see if i can get a team to give up a 2nd rounder or so for him.

Dunta has six years in so the only things that can be done with him are franchise (120% of last year) or transition (110% of last year).

TexanBacker93
02-18-2010, 02:37 PM
Well, It can benefit the Texans.

Front load a contract with Meco, Pollard, and OD. Big bucks. Use the year to our advantage.

But just not resigning them because you don't have to? Bad. We gotta keep the players happy. We gotta have them want something to play for.

The $ amount for the bonus will still be prorated over the life of the contract. The players just get it up front. The non-guaranteed portion usually goes up a set amount each year. I'm not sure if there are rules regarding this, though.

infantrycak
02-18-2010, 02:46 PM
The $ amount for the bonus will still be prorated over the life of the contract. The players just get it up front. The non-guaranteed portion usually goes up a set amount each year. I'm not sure if there are rules regarding this, though.

Not if you designate it as a roster bonus one day after the signing of the contract. Minnesota did this when they picked up Antoine Winfield.

Big Lou
02-19-2010, 02:20 PM
If this has been said already sorry.

McNair said that winning will get the players "paid".

Fair enough, but you have to keep your best guys happy, especially the leaders. I've read that McNair will operate as if there is a cap, but why not just front load the hell out of contracts for guys like OD, and Demeco in the first year and put some performance pay in the back end to keep'em playing at a high level. This way you send the message that the cream of the crop gets paid, and you divert future cap issues.

I'm sure McNair doesn't want to run the team like a charity, but hell it helps the team in the future, plus it sends a strong message.

Anybody see downside other than Bob's wallet is a little lighter? (Easy for me to say!!)

badboy
02-22-2010, 11:10 AM
I agree with that in D-Ryans case, but I think OD realizes he'll be tendered again due to his injury.

If D-Ryans isn't offered a reasonable deal to lock him up long term, I'm not going to blame him one bit if he comes back in pissed off. Hell, I'm going to be pissed off too. He deserves it more than anybody, IMONeither OD or Demeco got what they wanted last off season and both had best season ever. I say do the same thing again.

Section516
02-22-2010, 11:17 AM
Hey..Buddy, I know you were supposed to get that raise..And I know you increased our market by 20%..And i know you had a spectacular year..

But look, see, there's a clause in the company's doctrine that say's we can keep you without your raise for two more years..So yeah, why don't you work through that, and we can review you after two years? I know your one of the top 5 guys in the entire business, and that new guy, while great, is making more than you, but your still going to work for us after that two years..Right?


Right?

badboy
02-22-2010, 11:27 AM
Hey..Buddy, I know you were supposed to get that raise..And I know you increased our market by 20%..And i know you had a spectacular year..

But look, see, there's a clause in the company's doctrine that say's we can keep you without your raise for two more years..So yeah, why don't you work through that, and we can review you after two years? I know your one of the top 5 guys in the entire business, and that new guy, while great, is making more than you, but your still going to work for us after that two years..Right?


Right?Or..hey Buddy, the player union negotiated this little clause for you. Do you need the number of the president? Even if you have a poor year, you still get to cash the paycheck we negotiated with your agent so why all the whining about me taking advantage of a situation when it is to my benefit? Oh and by the way, you played real good and will get a very good raise but that 20% your old amigo Section 516 referred to? You did not do it by yourself. Now go get ready to play the best you ever played because I heard we just might sign another Cushing to take your place. signed Robert (Bob) McNair

Section516
02-22-2010, 12:34 PM
Or another Ghost (http://www.nfl.com/players/vernongholston/profile?id=GHO395377)

You reward your players when they deserve it. You don't want to turn your leaders. Meco deserves a raise, and i can justify giving him a raise due to he played his initial contract. We can use this clause to our benefit and reward the players at the same time. Front load the contract and at the end, add player incentives.

And your right. Meco did it with those fantastic DT eating up blocks and allowing him to attack gaps.

ChampionTexan
02-22-2010, 01:04 PM
While it may border on collusion, I think there's going to be a pretty common League-wide theme this off-season of very little in the way of upfront cash. At least where it can be avoided such as in the case of almost all RFA's.

For every Jerry Jones (who's limited by being one of the final 8 teams standing anyway), and Daniel Snyder out there, I think there's 10 or 15 owners who will take the approach that large upfront payments will undermine the impact of a lockout, and effectively pay all those receiving said payment to do nothing if there's no football for any portion of 2011.

For better, or for worse, look for the Texans to be in the majority on this one.

badboy
02-22-2010, 03:50 PM
While it may border on collusion, I think there's going to be a pretty common League-wide theme this off-season of very little in the way of upfront cash. At least where it can be avoided such as in the case of almost all RFA's.

For every Jerry Jones (who's limited by being one of the final 8 teams standing anyway), and Daniel Snyder out there, I think there's 10 or 15 owners who will take the approach that large upfront payments will undermine the impact of a lockout, and effectively pay all those receiving said payment to do nothing if there's no football for any portion of 2011.

For better, or for worse, look for the Texans to be in the majority on this one.Snyder is the guy who usually irritates the other owners by throwing money at players see Hainesworth as most recent but not only bad decision. The Micorsoft owner at Seatlle has cancer and I expect him to buy whatever he think it takes to give him a great shot at a Super Bowl.