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View Full Version : Marlon Greenwood Signed!


Bayern
03-03-2005, 02:08 PM
I hear this guy is awesome and totall underrated

Greenwood signs five-year, $22.5 million deal

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2004143

Sarg01
03-03-2005, 02:11 PM
I hear this guy is awesome and totall underrated

Greenwood signs five-year, $22.5 million deal

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2004143

Sounds good. Perhaps even more significant, notice in the link that the Texans have already told Wong that he'll be moving inside this year?

Bayern
03-03-2005, 02:19 PM
Agreed on the move for Wong. We've all been waiting for the day Wong would move back inside. He's better there anyways. So now you got Peek, Greenwood, Sharper, Babin and Wong all rotating in and out of the linebacker positions. Excellent!

jagsfanincanada
03-03-2005, 02:21 PM
And holy shz did you guys overpay him. $7 million signing bonus for an average LB? Wow. I don't want to hear any cracks about us overpaying for Hayward. At least Hayward makes plays.

TheOgre
03-03-2005, 02:22 PM
This probably moves ILB down on our draft needs. I still wouldn't be surprised to see us take one though.

LikeABoss
03-03-2005, 02:23 PM
This is good news, now the only thing we have to do is focus on improving the D-line and the CB position through the draft :thumbup

TheOgre
03-03-2005, 02:26 PM
Actually it sounds like Wong is getting moved inside and Greenwood might move outside. So I guess this projects to:

Outside Babin (L), Greenwood (R)
Inside Wong, Sharper

with Foreman and Peek as the top backups. Not sure who would play left and right on the inside this season.

bckey
03-03-2005, 02:31 PM
I don't know if this is good news or not. I'm not real familiar with this guy. He seems small for the outside (6' 238 lbs). Could be a play maker like Dat Nguyen though. I would rather have seen us pursue Hartwell or K. Bell.

Bayern
03-03-2005, 02:32 PM
Actually it sounds like Wong is getting moved inside and Greenwood might move outside. So I guess this projects to:

Outside Babin (L), Greenwood (R)
Inside Wong, Sharper

with Foreman and Peek as the top backups. Not sure who would play left and right on the inside this season.

You think so? Maybe its my wishful thinking but if anything I think this shoves Wong into a backup role (eventhough espn says otherwise). Peek is ready to hold the job on his own on the outside IMO. I think you need to use a guy like Wong both inside and out and you keep guys like greenwood and sharper stuffing the run in the middle. Then again I'm no coach. :whew

Bayern
03-03-2005, 02:34 PM
I don't know if this is good news or not. I'm not real familiar with this guy. He seems small for the outside (6' 238 lbs). Could be a play maker like Dat Nguyen though. I would rather have seen us pursue Hartwell or K. Bell.

Again I really don't think we're using him on the outside, but if we do, he played it succesfully in Miami.

ThaShark316
03-03-2005, 02:39 PM
LOL @ 23 users viewing this thread. :heh:

jacquescas
03-03-2005, 02:40 PM
4.5 million average for 5 years is alot for a non probowl player, lets hope they did their research because being a linebacker on the worst team in the league doesn't get you noticed.

He has a cap hit of just under 2 million for this year.

dalemurphy
03-03-2005, 02:41 PM
You think so? Maybe its my wishful thinking but if anything I think this shoves Wong into a backup role (eventhough espn says otherwise). Peek is ready to hold the job on his own on the outside IMO. I think you need to use a guy like Wong both inside and out and you keep guys like greenwood and sharper stuffing the run in the middle. Then again I'm no coach. :whew

Remember the five year plan?... It's important to think about the 2006 lineup when looking at this deal... Peek, Babin on the outside and Greenwood, Sharper? on the inside... Wong, Foreman, and maybe Sharper will all be gone next year. He'll likely replace Foreman this year as the starter and Wong will share time and backup all 4 Lb positions.

dalemurphy
03-03-2005, 02:43 PM
4.5 million average for 5 years is alot for a non probowl player, lets hope they did their research because being a linebacker on the worst team in the league doesn't get you noticed.

He has a cap hit of just under 2 million for this year.

$7 million bonus over 5 years isn't much. I'd rather have my team looking for young improving players with potential to sign to 5 year deals, than signing aged veterans like Hugh Douglas to big deals... Obviously, our scouts and coaches like this guy and think he'll be worth it. We'll see soon enough.

texasguy346
03-03-2005, 02:44 PM
I'm thinking that this might shake out with Babin and Peek on the outsides starting. With Sharper and either Wong/Greenwood starting at the other ILB position. Then that would leave both Polk and Wong/Greenwood as depth at ILB, and Charlie Anderson and perhaps a Merriman/Ware/Goddard (wishful thinking) as depth at our other OLB position. In this scenario Foreman would get the axe, and be out looking for work. I think this signing may be a more of an indicator of what will happen next offseason. They might be experimenting with Greenwood so they'll be able to let Wong go.

What intrigues me is having Wong and Greenwood who are both good in coverage, and also having Sharper who is pretty good too. Polk is okay, and Foreman blows. I wonder which LBs will be in when it's a nickle situation. You always want Sharper on the field, but who's better in coverage Greenwood or Wong? Babin and Peek would likely be in as DEs.

LikeABoss
03-03-2005, 02:46 PM
lets hope they did their research because being a linebacker on the worst team in the league doesn't get you noticed.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/DEF-TOTAL/2004/regular?sort_col_1=4

^^Even though the Dolphins were one of the worst teams in the NFL, they still had the #8 ranked defense. It wasn't the Dolphin's defensive players that caused the team to be so bad.

Bayern
03-03-2005, 02:48 PM
[QUOTE=texasguy346]I'm thinking that this might shake out with Babin and Peek on the outsides starting. With Sharper and either Wong/Greenwood starting at the other ILB position. Then that would leave both Polk and Wong/Greenwood as depth at ILB, and Charlie Anderson and perhaps a Merriman/Ware/Goddard (wishful thinking) as depth at our other OLB position. QUOTE]

Oh jeez.... we would be ridiculously strong at the linebacker position :thumbup

Vinny
03-03-2005, 02:48 PM
Wong has a 2005 cap hit of $4,400,000 and is in the last year of his deal. He may not be around after this year. Wong didn't do to well inside when he was in last year and looked lost when he replaced Foreman. I'm not sure he has enough speed for the coverage responsiblities. We may not have Foreman and Wong as our core linebackers after this season.

Bayern
03-03-2005, 02:51 PM
Wong has a 2005 cap hit of $4,400,000 and is in the last year of his deal. He may not be around after this year. Wong didn't do to well inside when he was in last year and looked lost when he replaced Foreman. I'm not sure he has enough speed for the coverage responsiblities. We may not have Foreman and Wong as our core linebackers after this season.

Losing both of those guys is fine with me. Wong plays smart ball but he's hardly a show stopper, Foreman just sucks.

Porky
03-03-2005, 02:51 PM
The contract is worth $22.5 million and includes a $7 million signing bonus. Greenwood will earn salaries of $540,000 (for 2005), $2.56 million (2006), $3.4 million (2007), $4 million (2008) and $5 million (2009). Those salaries include $100,000 workout bonuses for some seasons.

Are they nuts? That is way too much for this guy. He better turn into Ray Lewis Jr. The first yr is fine, but a 5 million dollar salary for an average LB? Maybe I am way underestimating him. Time will tell. But, as of right now, I don't like that deal. His agent held up the Texans. Someone had too much cafeine. :wacko:

Vinny
03-03-2005, 02:58 PM
Why? Foreman and Wong both make as much or more in the next two years. Perhaps the Texans evaluate talent better than you do. This is a guy who is just entering his peak years. People are quick to complain around here.

bckey
03-03-2005, 02:58 PM
Where does this leave Cheatwood?

Vinny
03-03-2005, 02:59 PM
As a member of the Texans.

WildBlackBear32
03-03-2005, 03:00 PM
This is a pretty bad signing if you ask me. Babin - Sharper - Wong - Peek would have been a damn good enough core of LBs, especially given the fact that noone in the division is even close to that strong(spare maybe TEN).This money and about an extra mil off the Payne signing could have landed us either a solid #2 WR or a decent CB. I dont really have a problem with the Payne signing(other than it being a LITTLE high) since we had NO NTs on the roster but this was a bad, bad signing.

Vinny
03-03-2005, 03:02 PM
This is a pretty bad signing if you ask me. Babin - Sharper - Wong - Peek would have been a damn good enough core of LBs, especially given the fact that noone in the division is even close to that strong(spare maybe TEN).We were one of the worst teams in the NFL when it came to pressuring the QB. We get our pressure from our linebackers.

on all these negative posts in general (not you specifically wildbeardude) How did the Texan fan nation get so negative? All of you guys amaze me.

Lucky
03-03-2005, 03:02 PM
The first yr is fine, but a 5 million dollar salary for an average LB?
He'll never see the $5 million salary in '09. Either Greenwood will have his contract extended and turn the $5 mil into a bonus, or he'll be released. In fact, it will be cheaper to release Morlon than keep him in '08. I see this deal as a 3 year, $13.5 million contract.

LikeABoss
03-03-2005, 03:05 PM
How did the Texan fan nation get so negative? All of you guys amaze me.

I'm being positive about this signing and the way the offseason is going Vinny :) I would be even more happy if we could sign Travis Taylor to compliment Andre and draft Marcus Spears to replace Gary Walker :thumbup

Grid
03-03-2005, 03:06 PM
yah.. he is young and has plenty of upside. he wont see the large part of his contract unless he DOES turn into a pro bowl LB. if he doesnt, we will get rid of him and not lose to much money doing it.

It was a good deal. I like how our LBs are shaping up. I like Wong too but lets face it.. he isnt the total package. he CAN be upgraded and Greenwood may be that guy. If nothing else.. it looks like Greenwood could be either an OLB or an ILB for us.. so we will just have to see where he ends up.

I like this signing.

WildBlackBear32
03-03-2005, 03:08 PM
We were one of the worst teams in the NFL when it came to pressuring the QB. We get our pressure from our linebackers. How did the Texan fan nation get so negative? All of you guys amaze me.

Which is exactly the point. Peek and Babin are fine, high octane pass rushing/run stopping OLBs.Both very young and need time on the field to progress. Wong can also more than move in when necessary. You then use Sharper as a clog when the others blitz.

You then save the money from this bad signing and get something to help out the offense.Psssst here's a stat for you, 21st in points scored, "only" 15th in Points allowed.

texasguy346
03-03-2005, 03:08 PM
We were one of the worst teams in the NFL when it came to pressuring the QB. We get our pressure from our linebackers.

I agree. I think you can never have enough good LBs in a 3-4. Outside of our starters we need some good backups to be able to rotate in from time to time, and to be able to have an equally good LB ready to come in if a starter goes down with an injury.

infantrycak
03-03-2005, 03:09 PM
Can't remember who, but there was someone around here that was big on wrestlers. From the announcement on the home page:

He was also the New York state wrestling champion in the 215-pound weight class.

Lucky
03-03-2005, 03:11 PM
From the Official Site (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/news_detail.php?PRKey=1570):
HOUSTON – The Houston Texans have agreed to a contract with unrestricted free agent LB Morlon Greenwood, it was announced today.

Greenwood (6-0, 238) started 15-of-16 games and recorded a career high 129 tackles for the Miami Dolphins in 2004. Greenwood finished second on the team in total tackles while leading the Dolphins in tackles in three separate contests. He recorded a season high 15 tackles during the Dolphins' 24-17 win at San Francisco.

The former Syracuse Orangeman was selected in the third round (88th overall) of the 2001 NFL draft. Greenwood moved into the starting lineup against the New England Patriots where he started the final 12 games during his rookie season, recording 70 tackles and his career best 1.5 sacks.

As a member of the Dolphins, Greenwood contributed to a defense ranked in the top-10 for each of the four years he played with the team. He has amassed 354 total tackles in 62 games, starting 52 games at strongside linebacker.

Entering his fifth season, Greenwood looks to make the transition from playing in a 4-3 system to a 3-4 with the Texans. He played middle and outside linebacker during his four years at Syracuse where he was named first-team All Big East during his junior and senior season, posting 187 tackles during those two seasons.

Greenwood was born in Jamaica and moved to Long Island, N.Y. when he was 11 years old. He began playing football during his junior year of high school. He went on to earn all-state honors at Freeport High School during his senior season. He was also the New York state wrestling champion in the 215-pound weight class.

WildBlackBear32
03-03-2005, 03:12 PM
I agree. I think you can never have enough good LBs in a 3-4. Outside of our starters we need some good backups to be able to rotate in from time to time, and to be able to have an equally good LB ready to come in if a starter goes down with an injury.

Which is all well and good, but you dont pay backups 5 for 22. If you plug him in as a starter, then either you force a good young player to the bench or you bench Wong and have another expensive backup.

UberDork
03-03-2005, 03:12 PM
I like the signing. We have some big question marks about the LB position comming up after the 2005 season. The fact that the Texans are preparing for that now is great to me. We need depth at LB; anyone could get hurt...then what. The contract is backloaded so nobody should worry about those last few years unless he is worth the money. I think we should still try and draft a good ILB prospect because we may loose some guys in the next few years.

Vinny
03-03-2005, 03:13 PM
Which is exactly the point. Peek and Babin are fine, high octane pass rushing/run stopping OLBs.Both very young and need time on the field to progress. Wong can also more than move in when necessary. You then use Sharper as a clog when the others blitz.

You then save the money from this bad signing and get something to help out the offense.Psssst here's a stat for you, 21st in points scored, "only" 15th in Points allowed.Wong may not be here after this year. He is in his last contract year and has not been above average. Sharper had the worst year of the 3 Texans seasons last year and very well may be a player in decline. On top of that he is a 6+ million dollar cap hit who doesn't play like a 6 million dollar player and is in the last year of his contract also. This may be a shock to you but the team is probably looking further ahead than this year when it comes to signing free agents. The new linebacker is just now entering his prime years. I'm pretty happy we are shoring up this position. Huge upgrade over Foreman.


PS: Payne is on 610am right now live if you catch this.

Nawzer
03-03-2005, 03:13 PM
I'll trust the Texans and Charlie Casserly..for now.

jagsfanincanada
03-03-2005, 03:14 PM
This is a pretty bad signing if you ask me. Babin - Sharper - Wong - Peek would have been a damn good enough core of LBs, especially given the fact that noone in the division is even close to that strong(spare maybe TEN).This money and about an extra mil off the Payne signing could have landed us either a solid #2 WR or a decent CB. I dont really have a problem with the Payne signing(other than it being a LITTLE high) since we had NO NTs on the roster but this was a bad, bad signing.

Yeah those Jag LBs suck...

:rolleyes:

texasguy346
03-03-2005, 03:15 PM
Which is all well and good, but you dont pay backups 5 for 22. If you plug him in as a starter, then either you force a good young player to the bench or you bench Wong and have another expensive backup.

With Wong likely leaving after this season I don't see it as a bad signing. You get a young guy in here to learn from some veteran LBs with experience in the 3-4, and if he picks up the system and performs well then you don't need to go after a guy next year to fill in for Wong. If, on the other hand, he performs poorly, or doesn't fit in the system then you can still get rid of him before he becomes too costly.

infantrycak
03-03-2005, 03:17 PM
Something is strange with Pasquarelli's report about Wong. Greenwood has the speed/coverage ability, build and prior experience (I know he was OLB but it was in a 4-3 behind Taylor and Ogunleye) IMO to be the replacement for Foreman, not an OLB for us. But if Wong is moving inside we have way too much money and way to few ILB spots for the guys we have. Somebody(s) out of here--what is the net cap effect of cutting Wong this off-season?

WildBlackBear32
03-03-2005, 03:17 PM
Wong may not be here after this year. He is in his last contract year and has not been above average. Sharper had the worst year of the 3 Texans seasons last year and very well may be a player in decline. On top of that he is a 6+ million dollar cap hit who doesn't play like a 6 million dollar player and is in the last year of his contract also. This may be a shock to you but the team is probably looking further ahead than this year when it comes to signing free agents. Everyone yawned when the Patriots signed Mike Vrabel and Teddy Brusci (same kind of signing). The new linebacker is just now entering his prime years. I'm pretty happy we are shoring up this position.


PS: Payne is on 610am right now live if you catch this.

I know Wong (hopefully) wont be back after this season, but Sharper....Declining?? I realize he wasnt in 2003 form last year, but he was still 6th in the N-F-L in tackles. Last year, he wasnt forced to overacheive like he was in 2003 because he had more solid guys around him.

texasguy346
03-03-2005, 03:20 PM
We need depth at LB; anyone could get hurt...then what. The contract is backloaded so nobody should worry about those last few years unless he is worth the money. I think we should still try and draft a good ILB prospect because we may loose some guys in the next few years.

I think those are two very good points, and I too would like to see us pick up a young ILB in the draft. This signing just gives us more time to develop a young ILB.

texasguy346
03-03-2005, 03:22 PM
Somebody(s) out of here--what is the net cap effect of cutting Wong this off-season?

I was wondering the same thing about Foreman. Where's aj when you need him?

Vinny
03-03-2005, 03:24 PM
I know Wong (hopefully) wont be back after this season, but Sharper....Declining?? I realize he wasnt in 2003 form last year, but he was still 6th in the N-F-L in tackles. Last year, he wasnt forced to overacheive like he was in 2003 because he had more solid guys around him.
Declining? Sure, they all start declining somewhere and there is no doubt that he didn't have a great year last year. I still watch many of the games even in the off-season. Sharper is in his 9th NFL season and last year he didn't have any major injuries and he was not the impact linebacker that he has been in the past. He was slower to the ball than he has been in the past also. Just because I may feel he may be in decline, it doesn't mean that he is not a good NFL linebacker. I tend to think in more complex terms than he is great or he sux. Sharper should have a ton of tackles because most of the tackles are supposed to be made by him and Foreman in our defense. Compound that with the fact that our defense was on the field way too much he should be in the top 10 in tackles.

Porky
03-03-2005, 03:25 PM
We were one of the worst teams in the NFL when it came to pressuring the QB. We get our pressure from our linebackers.

on all these negative posts in general (not you specifically wildbeardude) How did the Texan fan nation get so negative? All of you guys amaze me.

Don't get me wrong. I like the signing from a player personell perspective. OTOH, as you know, I am not a cheerleader or kool-aid drinker. I calls em as I sees em. If I think they overpaid, I'll state that. I will admit that this guy was not on my radar, and if he is good, then I'll be happy. But, just because the Texans signed a free agent LB doesn't make him good. I'm sure most of you know the history with free agent LB signings by the Texans, or do I need to remind you? :heh:

Lucky had a good point though, and that makes me feel a bit better. :)

Vinny
03-03-2005, 03:27 PM
Don't get me wrong. I like the signing from a player personell perspective. OTOH, as you know, I am not a cheerleader or kool-aid drinker. I calls em as I sees em. If I think they overpaid, I'll state that. I will admit that this guy was not on my radar, and if he is good, then I'll be happy.Let me ask you this then....

If you never heard of the guy and didn't see many Dolphin games then how to your form the basis of your opinion that we were hoodwinked and over-paid him?

keyfro
03-03-2005, 03:27 PM
this signing is very interesting when you hear that we are moving wong inside greenwood projects better at ILB than OLB so my question is this...is foreman now on the trading block for draft picks?

Vinny
03-03-2005, 03:28 PM
foreman now on the trading block for draft picks? Foreman has zero trade value.

TheOgre
03-03-2005, 03:28 PM
Greenwood did well in the role he was given with the Dolphins. He wasn't a star but he was steady. I'm curious to see where we project him to play.

Sarg01
03-03-2005, 03:28 PM
Something is strange with Pasquarelli's report about Wong. Greenwood has the speed/coverage ability, build and prior experience (I know he was OLB but it was in a 4-3 behind Taylor and Ogunleye) IMO to be the replacement for Foreman, not an OLB for us. But if Wong is moving inside we have way too much money and way to few ILB spots for the guys we have. Somebody(s) out of here--what is the net cap effect of cutting Wong this off-season?

We're not so close to the cap that Wong needs to go this year. After this year he's a FA, so his salary doesn't represent a "cap hell" threat. We could still extend Sharper another year (he's also due for FA after this year) to lower his cap number by 2-2.5 mil if we want to pick up one more quality FA.

Grid
03-03-2005, 03:28 PM
Supposedly Greenwood is a VERY fast LB.. who isnt very strong going heads up against olinemen. This would lead me to beleive he probably projects better into OLB than ILB.

we wont really know though till we see him playing for us.

texasguy346
03-03-2005, 03:29 PM
I'm sure most of you know the history with free agent LB signings by the Texans, or do I need to remind you? :heh:


Ouch! Yeah Clemons was a major disappointment.

texasguy346
03-03-2005, 03:31 PM
Foreman has zero trade value.

Come on now. I'm sure we could get a pack of gum, or maybe tickets to a NHL game for him. :rolleyes:

TEXANS84
03-03-2005, 03:39 PM
Ouch! Yeah Clemons was a major disappointment.

Clemons was a huge dissapointment.
This year is starting to remind me alot of last year.

2004' *IE- Walker gets re-signed first, player we weren't expecting from Miami gets signed (Todd Wade), biggest offseason move aquiring Robaire Smith
2005' *IE- Payne gets re-signed first, player we weren't expecting from Miami gets signed (Morlon Greenwood), is the big one looming around the corner?

Corrosion
03-03-2005, 03:40 PM
What i get from this transaction ....

First and foremost , the Texans management does'nt think that Peek is gonna be an every down player THIS SEASON . As much physical talent as the guy has , I have to agree (at least for now) . Or at least until he shows some maturity , he's just too prone to the silly penalty .


Wong will be gone next season . Or will have to re-structure / extend his contract to be more cap friendly . He's a solid player but not worth the cap hit after this season .

The front office finally understands that Foreman isnt very good and most if not all the other LB's on the roster are an upgrade .He's most likely released next season as well.

Lastly the Texans arent in a positoin of NEED at the LB position come draft draft day and can look to improve their other glaring weaknesses . OL , DL , TE and an eventual replacement for Glenn. As well as another WR and RB.

Vinny
03-03-2005, 03:43 PM
What i get from this transaction ....

First and foremost , the Texans management does'nt think that Peek is gonna be an every down player THIS SEASON . As much physical talent as the guy has , I have to agree (at least for now) . Or at least until he shows some maturity , he's just too prone to the silly penalty . I think he came here to play inside linebacker (the buc), so this would not effect Peek.

281
03-03-2005, 03:46 PM
I've watched practically every Dolphin game for the past three and a half seasons, and I can tell you he really isn't anything too special. His name isn't called out too many times during a game, but then again, when you have players like Jason Taylor and Zack Thomas in THAT defense, you're going to be overshadowed. I can't really give this signing a thumbs-down because he's relatively young, and I know he is better than Foreman because he can actually RUN. He's more suited to be on the outside because he's small. The linebacker competition will be VERY interesting come training camp.

keyfro
03-03-2005, 03:49 PM
you say that yet in the 3-4 defense the OLB's are generally bigger than the ILB's...mostly converted college DE's

Vinny
03-03-2005, 03:50 PM
I've watched practically every Dolphin game for the past three and a half seasons, and I can tell you he really isn't anything too special. His name isn't called out too many times during a game, but then again, when you have players like Jason Taylor and Zack Thomas in THAT defense, you're going to be overshadowed. I can't really give this signing a thumbs-down because he's relatively young, and I know he is better than Foreman because he can actually RUN. He's more suited to be on the outside because he's small. The linebacker competition will be VERY interesting come training camp.

He had 108 tackles last year and was second on the team behind Zach Thomas. The Dolphins also had one tough defense although the rest of the team blew.

Greenwood is also 240 pounds so I'm not shure how you define "small" (Foreman is 240 also). That is plenty big for the Buc postion in our defense.

WildBlackBear32
03-03-2005, 03:51 PM
I've watched practically every Dolphin game for the past three and a half seasons, and I can tell you he really isn't anything too special. His name isn't called out too many times during a game, but then again, when you have players like Jason Taylor and Zack Thomas in THAT defense, you're going to be overshadowed.


Not only that, but his production picked up because Seau went down. I know he was a total non-factor in both of the Fish games vs the Pats last season.

keyfro
03-03-2005, 03:51 PM
another thing...a lot of people on this board have been wanting derrick johnson to be our first round pick...and projected him to the ILB position...we all agreed that johnson wasn't big enough to really project well in the 3-4 system and johnson and greenwood have similar bodies...just a thought

the wonger need food
03-03-2005, 03:52 PM
I hear this guy is awesome and totall underrated

Greenwood signs five-year, $22.5 million deal

You're kidding, right? If this guy and Payne are the big offseason moves it's gonna be another long year.

Vinny
03-03-2005, 03:53 PM
Not only that, but his production picked up because Seau went down. I know he was a total non-factor in both of the Fish games vs the Pats last season. Actually, Seau plays LOLB and Greenwood plays ROLB. Seau didnt give him any tackles when he went down


http://www.nfl.com/teams/depthcharts/MIA

beerlover
03-03-2005, 03:54 PM
This one we need to trust the Texans & Casserly on. I'm sure they've been targeting him from the beginning, now Miami is turning into our farm system. I'm sure its our gain & their loss, just like Todd Wade last year.

Now having said that one point that needs to be made is this- doesn't competition breed excellence? Clearly this makes the LB's the strength of the Texans team both talent and depth wise and isn't this suppose to be the bread and butter of the 3-4 defense. I'm not real familar with Marlon either but I am a draft junkie and I know he was a 3rd round pick out of Syracuse (88th) in 2001. Since we just had the combines some of you might be familar with these specifics 6ft, 237, 21 reps and ran a 4.67 40. I mean this kid sounds like a human flying cannonball. Last year he registered over 100 tackles.

The only problem I see is how there are going to be enough tackles to go around for all the linebackers to supplement their diets. Remember that little problem last year with stopping opposing offenses from converting 3rd downs? Watch cannonball run :woot

WildBlackBear32
03-03-2005, 03:54 PM
another thing...a lot of people on this board have been wanting derrick johnson to be our first round pick...and projected him to the ILB position...we all agreed that johnson wasn't big enough to really project well in the 3-4 system and johnson and greenwood have similar bodies...just a thought

DJ has 4 inches and 4 years(younger) to get bigger than Greenwood. This isnt even taking into consideration the difference in the two's playmaking abilities..

Corrosion
03-03-2005, 03:55 PM
I think he came here to play inside linebacker (the buc), so this would not effect Peek.


From what i heard on the ride home switching between 610 and 790 this will move Wong Inside and have Greenwood taking his old position outside . which doesnt directly affect Peek but there was talk of moving Wong inside before this which wuold have moved Peek up the depth chart . Looks to me the odd man out is Foreman

DoCt3rJ
03-03-2005, 03:55 PM
You think we paid too much for Greenwood, look at Cowboys. They gave Anthony Henry a 5 year deal worth 25 mil and a 11mil signing bonus..... :O

Vinny
03-03-2005, 03:57 PM
From what i heard on the ride home switching between 610 and 790 this will move Wong Inside and have Greenwood taking his old position outside . which doesnt directly affect Peek but there was talk of moving Wong inside before this which wuold have moved Peek up the depth chart . Looks to me the odd man out is Foreman
The Texans are having a press conf soon so that should clear it up.

Vinny
03-03-2005, 03:57 PM
DJ has 4 inches and 4 years(younger) to get bigger than Greenwood. This isnt even taking into consideration the difference in the two's playmaking abilities..
Greenwood is the same size as Foreman (one inch shorter and the same weight).

WildBlackBear32
03-03-2005, 03:58 PM
Actually, Seau plays LOLB and Greenwood plays ROLB. Seau didnt give him any tackles when he went down


http://www.nfl.com/teams/depthcharts/MIA

...Production in 8 games with Seau playing...Seau = 57 tackles, Greenwood = 42 Tackles.

Greenwood production in 8 games without Seau = 66.

I stick to my story, since I get about 10 Fish games on regional broadcast even without Sunday Ticket.

281
03-03-2005, 03:58 PM
He had 108 tackles last year and was second on the team behind Zach Thomas. The Dolphins also had one tough defense although the rest of the team blew.

Greenwood is also 240 pounds so I'm not shure how you define "small" (Foreman is 240 also). That is plenty big for the Buc postion in our defense.

He is more of a speed player, really, I'd rather see him on the outside. Besides, the Miami run defense wasn't too great (31st in the league).

WildBlackBear32
03-03-2005, 03:59 PM
Greenwood is the same size as Foreman (one inch shorter and the same weight).

???? Who said anything about Foreman??? The post(er) I quoted was talking about Derrick Johnson...sigh.

Vinny
03-03-2005, 03:59 PM
He is more of a speed player, really, I'd rather see him on the outside. Besides, the Miami run defense wasn't too great (31st in the league).We need speed at all our linebacker spots. Have you noticed how much we put them in coverage?

Sarg01
03-03-2005, 04:09 PM
DJ has 4 inches and 4 years(younger) to get bigger than Greenwood. This isnt even taking into consideration the difference in the two's playmaking abilities..

Who's said we'd start Greenwood over DJ? Let's get realistic though, the only shot we've got at DJ is if he hurts himself before the draft or we trade away our whole first day to get him.

Bayern
03-03-2005, 04:12 PM
Ahhh we're speculating both ways. No one here saw what Casserly and Co. saw in this guy at the workout the other day. I'm sure most of us as well didn't tune into enough games that this guy had with the Dolphins to make an accurate assessment. Lastly, as most of us know, a sold 3-4 goes after talent at the linebacker position EVERY year.

Trust Casserly and our scouts! They are excited about him and I'm excited to see what this guy can do.

281
03-03-2005, 04:13 PM
We need speed at all our linebacker spots. Have you noticed how much we put them in coverage?

Greenwood hasn't had too many sacks in his career, but I personally think he'd be a better 3-4 OLB because he has the potential to be a better pass rusher rather than a run stuffer. He isn't the world's greatest tackler. He would definitely be an improvement inside, though. That can't be denied. I just don't think we will place him there.

Corrosion
03-03-2005, 04:16 PM
The only problem I see is how there are going to be enough tackles to go around for all the linebackers to supplement their diets.


putting numbers in the win column will solve this problem .

tiger06
03-03-2005, 04:26 PM
Great signing! Our LB corps get stronger...

keyfro
03-03-2005, 04:30 PM
first i think putting in some speed in our linebacker corp is a great idea...after this past season our underachieving linebackers are getting shook up a bit...wong is getting to that unmagical number 30 and foreman hasn't lived up to be anything special unless your talking about special teams...greenwood is 26, fast, athletic, and is a new face in the texans linebacker corp...now we dont' know just yet if he's gonna be an ILB or an OLB but either way we just got a lot fast which is always a good thing because speed kills

SESupergenius
03-03-2005, 04:46 PM
This is going to be yet another very interesting preseason for the linebackers. I'm betting that Peek just isn't cutting it and so they are bringin in guys to fill that void. Wong is a smart player and yes he can cover very well so I think knowing that he is going to be at the ILB spot will give him more time to adjust. He's been the LOLB, ROLB, and ILB in 3 seasons now.

I still think we should have gone after Kendral Bell if we are going to shell out that kind of money for a LB. Bell still has very good upside and since he plays inside, one of major weaknesses, I thought it would be a natural fit. That would have left Wong happier on at the ROLB spot and Peek to prove himself in minicamp. Now, once again we are shuffling one of our linebackers and may end up with 2 spots on in our linebacking that were not there last year.

TexanBacker93
03-03-2005, 04:51 PM
This was a much better pickup than Bell or Hartwell. Those 2 would have commanded $5 million this year alone along with whatever signing bonus it would take. Greenwood was never going to get the press in Miami with Thomas and then Seau in that LB group. Just because he wasn't a probowl player doesn't mean he isn't good. Dunta Robinson anyone?? I don't imagine Foreman will be on the team this year.

OLB- Babin, Peek, Greenwood, Anderson
ILB - Sharper, Wong, Polk, Orr

I'd rather go with the younger and less costly backups instead of Foreman.

Tailgate
03-03-2005, 04:57 PM
Thats what I think as well. Greenwood had zero sacks last year and is supposedly great in coverage. Meaning a better fit for Inside.

TheTim5125
03-03-2005, 04:59 PM
how good is this guy.. you can't look at numbers that much because the numbers sometimes lie

TexSon
03-03-2005, 05:01 PM
I don't think there is any question he will be an ILB (Foreman's spot) for us.
No way do we ask a 238 pound guy that struggles with blockers to take OTs head on.
I think it will be Babin - Greenwood - Sharper - Peek/Wong next season. Wong will be restructured or released after this season- same with Foreman.

I think it is a good signing. It gives us good speed at ILB, which we were desperate for. It also gives us an ILB that can cover. We were abused repeatedly by our ILB coverage. Fangio's scheme requires lots of coverage from the LB spots and Greenwood perfectly fits this. He's young and about to enter the prime of his career.

After I got over the sticker shock of his contract, it really doesn't look all that bad. After the third year I expect we will restructure.

Tailgate
03-03-2005, 05:02 PM
how good is this guy.. you can't look at numbers that much because the numbers sometimes lie

Supposedly he is a solid solid player. I think 2nd in tackles last year on a GOOD defense. He is another workhorse who will give 110% on every play...but just wont wow you with any sportcenter highlights.

But at his age.... he may just now be reaching his full potential.

Gotta think POSITIVE!

Sarg01
03-03-2005, 05:03 PM
This is going to be yet another very interesting preseason for the linebackers. I'm betting that Peek just isn't cutting it and so they are bringin in guys to fill that void. Wong is a smart player and yes he can cover very well so I think knowing that he is going to be at the ILB spot will give him more time to adjust. He's been the LOLB, ROLB, and ILB in 3 seasons now.



Moving Wong inside is a vote of confidence in Peek as near as I can make it out. Unless you think we're going to start Cheatwood over him, I don't see how it can be anything but.

I'd be really surprised if Greenwood plays OLB for us, except in cases of injury/special situations. My bet is Greenwood is here to replace Foreman and be ILB for us for the next several years and we'll try to draft a replacement for Sharper.

JustBonee
03-03-2005, 05:20 PM
... we'll try to draft a replacement for Sharper.

*sigh* ... can't picture the Texans without my favorite player.
BUT.. unless he has an outstanding year this year, he could very well be finding himself in the same position that his brother is facing right now ... end of contract ..
then what? stay for less or go shopping?

nunusguy
03-03-2005, 05:26 PM
I'm bettin they project him to play inside - he may have speed but that dosn't
mean he has to be an edge rusher - like someone said we want all of our backers to be able to run. We need more help inside. The only solid guy there is Sharper and he's aging too fast. Wong, Peek, and now "The Cheater" are all OLBs. And they will get another OLB in the Draft in the form of a tweener in the 4th or 5 th round. But I'll be glad when they make an official announcement so we get a chance to hear their plans for Greenwood.

SESupergenius
03-03-2005, 05:40 PM
I just don't see how people are saying Sharper is getting too old right now. Last year he wasn't outstanding, but he was far from being bad. he's 1 season removed from a great year, and now all of the sudden he's old man Sharper. You are putting him in the same category as Walker, all of the sudden these guys are bad.

kcwilson
03-03-2005, 05:43 PM
I think this move is a sign that Dj won't be around in the draft given recent hype... That likely means that Troy Williamson is even more likely a selection than before.

Regardless of whether Greenwood is OLB or ILB, I think we have versatility in combinations and depth. Peek could be a force and with Wong likely gone, we can be pretty sure that Peek will get more exposure this year.

I am willing to bet that the starting crops of LB in week 4 is much different than week 1.

infantrycak
03-03-2005, 05:57 PM
I agree Ses. Sharper had a down year from being a great LB, i.e. still a very solid LB. People need to learn there is a middle ground between pro-bowl and scrub.

Porky
03-03-2005, 05:59 PM
Let me ask you this then....

If you never heard of the guy and didn't see many Dolphin games then how to your form the basis of your opinion that we were hoodwinked and over-paid him?

Based on "scouting reports" and the fact I was not familiar with him. Even if I haven't seen alot of a particular guys work, I usually at least know of him if he is a good quality starter, and for the money they are paying, I am going to expect to see a good quality starter. Just giving my opinion, just like you and everyone else. Of course, in matters like this, I ALWAYS defer to the experts with the team. I don't pretend to know more than they do.

Blake
03-03-2005, 06:01 PM
I agree Ses. Sharper had a down year from being a great LB, i.e. still a very solid LB. People need to learn there is a middle ground between pro-bowl and scrub.

I just think people are expecting a constant pro-bowler for the money he is getting. I dont think anyone thinks hes a scrub.

Number19
03-03-2005, 06:11 PM
Agreed on the move for Wong. We've all been waiting for the day Wong would move back inside. He's better there anyways. So now you got Peek, Greenwood, Sharper, Babin and Wong all rotating in and out of the linebacker positions. Excellent!
And don't forget Tim Cheatwood.

Reddevil63
03-03-2005, 06:15 PM
I doubt Cheatwood will be subed in as regularly as those guys, he will probably get as much playing time as Charlie Anderson got last season.

edo783
03-03-2005, 06:27 PM
We seem to be building a SPEED set of LBs. Good idea IMO.

Number19
03-03-2005, 06:38 PM
I doubt Cheatwood will be subed in as regularly as those guys, he will probably get as much playing time as Charlie Anderson got last season.
Maybe that's how it will turn out. But I'm thinking it's going to be a knock-down, drag-out, free-for-all come training camp. I don't think anyone's position will be secure on day one.

Cheatwood - 6'-4", 260 lbs - developed some pass-rush skills up there in Canada. He is probably a more complete and well rounded player at this time than Peek.

One advantage Greenwood has over Cheatwood is probably speed. The only number I've managed to find on Cheatwood is an estimated 4.85 his senior year at Ohio State.

Should make for an interesting training camp.

nunusguy
03-03-2005, 07:17 PM
I checked out the Dolphins forum in the Miami Herald and they aren't shedding
any tears about this guys depature, just surprise at the kind of money he's getting. It's about the same kind of reaction they had last year when we signed their RT Todd Wade with some big bucks too. I suspect he's fairly mediorce - but he's young so still has time to surprise. Afterall, we're not contenders, not yet. That's what it takes to attract the top FAs, they all
want that SB ring. We've still got the Draft - afterall Cass says point blank
that's our main source for building, certainly for finding the real playmakers.

Vinny
03-03-2005, 07:58 PM
Greenwood’s addition to the linebacker corps adds speed and quickness to both inside posts and will allow the Texans to utilize him to drop into coverage and snuff the run as well as add an extra blitzer on third down.

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/news_detail.php?PRKey=1571

Reddevil63
03-03-2005, 08:19 PM
I think Foreman's days as a Texan are numbered. They told Wong to move inside, re-signed Polk and Evans, and are obvioulsy planning on having Greenwood play inside as well. Thats a few too many bodies and the way I see it, Foreman is the odd man out.

Hervoyel
03-03-2005, 08:52 PM
Foreman has zero trade value.

Minor point but technically I think he actually has less than zero trade value. I'm pretty sure the Texans have got to throw in some Gatorade, Toro's four wheeler, and an autographed David Carr bobblehead if they want another team to take him at his current contract.

utahmark
03-03-2005, 08:57 PM
they guys over on the miami mb's dont seem to sad to see him go. they were calling him the invisable man, said we over paid. hope they are wrong.

Reddevil63
03-03-2005, 09:17 PM
Considering the state of their team, I wouldnt put to much weight on what they say :loser

MikeMc
03-03-2005, 09:34 PM
What will the LB corps look like in 2005??

Starters:
OLB Jason Babin
OLB Antwan Peek
ILB Morlon Greenwood
ILB Jaime Sharper

Reserves:
ILB Jay Foreman & DaShon Polk
OLB Kailee Wong & Charlie Anderson

ginessey
03-03-2005, 10:20 PM
What will the LB corps look like in 2005??

Starters:
OLB Jason Babin
OLB Antwan Peek
ILB Morlon Greenwood
ILB Jaime Sharper

Reserves:
ILB Jay Foreman & DaShon Polk
OLB Kailee Wong & Charlie Anderson

I don't think Greenwood was picked up to be an immediate starter. He is a little too undersized right now to be and outside or inside linebacker. He is a coverage linebacker. He has tremendous upside though. Right now we'll probably see him in 3rd down situations, nickel, 3-3-5, and maybe dime packages. But we must not forget the clever defensive mind of Dom Capers. In the playoffs the Patriots started using a lot of defensive formations that the Texans used this year and last year. Picture this its, 3rd and long and the Texans come on the field with Sharper, Greenwood, Peek, Babin, Wong, Foreman, and Polk. Who's coming and who's dropping in coverage? If I'm an offensive lineman I sure would be confused with 0 D-lineman and 7 linebackers all showing blitz. It's schemes like this that make me think this pickup was a good one. For the starters I would say OLB Peek/Babin ILB Wong/Sharper. But I wouldn't be suprised if they go after Derrick Johnson in the draft and throw him in the rotation also.

infantrycak
03-03-2005, 10:30 PM
I don't think Greenwood was picked up to be an immediate starter. He is a little too undersized right now to be and outside or inside linebacker. He is a coverage linebacker.

He is the same size as our starting ILB for the last three years that he will be replacing--Foreman. And the texans didn't pay that kind of money for a situational LB.

FYI from the Texans roster:

Greenwood 238 lbs
Anderson 243 lbs (and 4" taller)
Foreman 240 lbs
Polk 242 lbs
Sharper 240 lbs

MikeMc
03-04-2005, 12:22 AM
Here Here infantrycak!

With a $7mil signing bonus and avg of $4mil a year, he better play all special teams, start at ILB and be the holder on FGs & PATs!

Not start??? Hell, there are several LBs in FA that would kill to have that signing bonus & contract...all of them are projected starters!

He is also rated as the #31 FA this season and #5 LB. At 26 and only 4 years in the league, I'd say he is the ILB of the future!! He is just starting to show what he can do. Here are his tackles thus far:

2001- 70
2002- 70
2003- 85
2004- 133

SESupergenius
03-04-2005, 12:27 AM
Here's what the Dophins fans have to say:

Huh?

Greenwood has'nt made a meaningful play in four years. Yes he made some tackles when Zach got hurt but in our system a traffic cone would get some tackles...it is about PLAYS...and Morlon has'nt made one in four years.
---------------
He's a very solid player. I don't know if I'd say "playmaker". But I'll be interested in seeing what he can do in a more aggressive scheme (such as Houston's 3-4).
---------------
MG is indeed a sold LB who I believe will improve over the next few years as he is still young, but when you look up Playmaker in the dictionary your def not going to find a picture of Morlon Greenwood
---------------
It's funny how his named is never heard in a game.
---------------
Kinda boring wasn't he...at least he wasn't a big penalty maker..
---------------
If Morlon Greenwood was so solid ..... Can anyone name or place one big play he made over the last four years?? Like turnover,cause a fumble or big sack or INT!! You can't because in 4 years he never had an INT, a fumble recovery,forced fumble!! I mean we are talking about linebacker and four years!! NO BIG TIME PLAYS IN 4 YEARS!! NOTTA!!The price we paid for this clown rapper was way too much! He was a bust! I mean you sometimes luck out and even cause a turnover or even recover a fumble,especially at linebacker.Morlon had ZERO in four years!He's a ZERO! Trust me, The Texans did us a huge favor!
----------------
Greenwood was the same way here at Syracuse...tons of athletic ability, but he never made any plays here either. When we drafted MG, I was still giving Wanny the benefit of the doubt, but it seriously made me question why we gave up a 2nd round pick the next year for a guy who never made any plays in college.
----------------
He's a solid starter, but nothing special. Texans definitly overpaid. I don't see how he fits into the 3-4 either.
----------------
the texans problem with there D is there so slow in the linebacker area...jamie sharper is fast but everyone else is slow...jason babin is fast and so is morlon greenwood...will help them more than it did us
----------------
Texans need an inside linebacker more than anything, not sure why they went for Greenwood
-----------------
Their GM must be asking Ricky for advice. Morlon Greenwood is an ok player, they're paying him like if he was a game changer. They're on crack, they overpaid big time.
-----------------
I still don't get it. He doesn't fit their scheme at all. They should have at least looked at Ed Hartwell or Kendrell Bell. I would be pissed if I was a Texans fan.
-----------------
alot are saying it was a great signing because of his upside, and because he can play both outside and inside(not my words from the Texans message board on nfl.com) I'm cotemplating registering and telling them that in the course of 1 month, Moore, Pope, AND Ayo made more meaningful plays than Morlon did in 4 years here.[

Grid
03-04-2005, 12:32 AM
*shrug*.. has he ever played in a 3-4? as an ILB? its completely different. if he has the coverage skills and tackling ability that he is supposed to have.. he could be really good for us.

Im going to trust Casserly on this one.. and we have 3 years to decide if we want him or not before his contract really makes a difference.

MikeMc
03-04-2005, 12:41 AM
Hell, making tackles and stopping big plays (gains of 20+ yards) is just the same as getting a FF,FR or INT. It is part of the game. The Texans "other" LBs have lacked fundamentals....if Greenwood can get the job done w/o the flash (i.e. tackle) then I'm all over that.

Hell, Matt Stevens would of needed a 15 INT season to compensate for all of his missed tackles! Too many people only care about the "flashy" play, HomeRuns & TOs, but the real playmakers make the "simple" plays!

TexanExile
03-04-2005, 05:37 AM
This guy is a joke. As someone who lives in Miami and watches the Dolphins as my "second" team, I can assure you he's never been part of a big play in his entire career. If memory serves, his career stats include the following highlights:

No sacks EVER
No forced fumbles EVER
No INTs EVER

And only a significant number of tackles 1 of 4 years. Even with a GREAT DL and GREAT secondary in Miami, he was still invisible. The sports media here was crucifying the Texans yesterday for this move and I totally agree.

Vinny
03-04-2005, 05:41 AM
Sporting news radio said that the sportingnews him ranked very high as I was listening to their broadcast this last night. They were praising the move and said he had a rating with up with Claiborne and Gold (couple of pretty good linebackers). They had him rated at 7.something on their rating scale, and that rating figure was fairly high from what Kevin Wheeler was relaying. Juinor Seau's best sack year in the last 7 years is 3.5 The Dolphins do not ask their linebackers to sack the quarterback (the DE's do in a 4-3). Run and chase is what they wanted out of Greenwood. btw, Greenwood was the second leading tackler last year on a pretty good defense. Only Zach Thomas had more tackles.

Looks like the other higher rated LB's were asking for the moon.
Thursday, the Chiefs entertained Jeremiah Trotter, who passed his physical, and even brought in Kendrell Bell. They previously had Ed Hartwell in for a visit but his contract demands seem quite high according to several teams — $10 million to sign and $6 million average.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/3437464

ccdude730
03-04-2005, 06:06 AM
wow, 10 million to sign and 6 mil avg is alot - sorry ed, too rich for our 'battle red' blood

contrary to dolphins and other people unassociated with the texan org i believe he was a good pickup and hope him and _______ (whoever he will be playing with at ILB) become a strong point for our defense.

SESupergenius
03-04-2005, 09:41 AM
But is this really an upgrade to Foreman??

cadahnic
03-04-2005, 09:52 AM
This is a dumbass move by the Texans. I mean they have the opportunity to grab Derrick Johnson in the draft and the money they spent on Greenwood could have went to Kareem McKenzie the offensive tackle that we desperately need. He can also play guard. Greenwood is small and rangy, but he cannot get away from a block and in four years as a starter only last year did he finally get over 100 tackles. A terrible move and a complete reach by the Texans that is the worst move since drafting Babin instead of a big time saftey or OL.

Reddevil63
03-04-2005, 10:06 AM
This is a dumbass move by the Texans. I mean they have the opportunity to grab Derrick Johnson in the draft and the money they spent on Greenwood could have went to Kareem McKenzie the offensive tackle that we desperately need. He can also play guard. Greenwood is small and rangy, but he cannot get away from a block and in four years as a starter only last year did he finally get over 100 tackles. A terrible move and a complete reach by the Texans that is the worst move since drafting Babin instead of a big time saftey or OL.
Your right, ship em outta here. They obviously dont know what they are doing so LA can have its franchise!!!! *note blatant sarcasm*


Dude, these people get paid lots of money to make these decisions and Im willing to bet they know more than you do on the subject. Let it play out before we start calling it a bad move.

RTP2110
03-04-2005, 10:19 AM
Let it play out before we start calling it a bad move.

I agree, you never know how a guy will react in a new system. We need to give this guy a few games or a season to show what he can do and how he will fit in before we label this move good or bad.

WildBlackBear32
03-04-2005, 10:22 AM
Sporting news radio said that the sportingnews him ranked very high as I was listening to their broadcast this last night. They were praising the move and said he had a rating with up with Claiborne and Gold (couple of pretty good linebackers). They had him rated at 7.something on their rating scale, and that rating figure was fairly high from what Kevin Wheeler was relaying. Juinor Seau's best sack year in the last 7 years is 3.5 The Dolphins do not ask their linebackers to sack the quarterback (the DE's do in a 4-3). Run and chase is what they wanted out of Greenwood. btw, Greenwood was the second leading tackler last year on a pretty good defense. Only Zach Thomas had more tackles.

Come on...dose of reality time...you got 3-4 people here who get to watch Miami games all the time(myself included), telling you he's not worth it. You got a group of Fins fans on another BB, telling you he's not worth it.Most of the time when a team loses a good-great player, the fans will say "MANAGEMENT!!!! :thumbdown ", I'm seeing none of this.

MojoX
03-04-2005, 10:35 AM
Come on...dose of reality time...you got 3-4 people here who get to watch Miami games all the time(myself included), telling you he's not worth it. You got a group of Fins fans on another BB, telling you he's not worth it.Most of the time when a team loses a good-great player, the fans will say "MANAGEMENT!!!! :thumbdown ", I'm seeing none of this.
All those Miami fans have only said that Greenwood is not a playmaker. But the reality is that none of the Miami linebackers are statistically dominant playmakers because the Miami system doesn't ask them to be. Miami asks their LB core to stop the run and tackle. Greenwood did that.

Greenwood brings speed and coverage to the ILB, something that has been missing at the LB position. The guy is a solid tackler, has pursuit speed and can cover. That alone makes him an upgrade over Foreman. On top of that, in Capers scheme, just being fast will make him a legit blitz threat from the inside. So where is the complaint? Let's not be too hasty. Let's just see what else happens this off season. Given the draft, there is ample opportunity to further upgrade the LB core at both/either the inside or the outside.

infantrycak
03-04-2005, 10:35 AM
Greenwood is small and rangy, but he cannot get away from a block and in four years as a starter only last year did he finally get over 100 tackles.

Horrible move--while we're at it, what were the pro-bowl people thinking. The pro-bowl OLB's this year only had 107, 101, 96, 62, 60 & 53 tackles--bunch of worthless hacks.

Psst--Morlon Greenwood 108 tackles.

WildBlackBear32
03-04-2005, 10:45 AM
Horrible move--while we're at it, what were the pro-bowl people thinking. The pro-bowl OLB's this year only had 107, 101, 96, 62, 60 & 53 tackles--bunch of worthless hacks.

Psst--Morlon Greenwood 108 tackles.

How silly that you left Derrick Brooks off that list...

Pssssst the Pro Bowl OLBs also had 3 Sacks, 5 INTs, 4 FFs and 17 PDs(Spikes)... 10.5 Sacks and 1 FF(Suggs)...7 Sacks, 3 FFs, 12 PDs and 1 INT(Porter)...2.5 Sacks, 2 FF, 3 INTs(Brooking)...I could continue...but the trend is rather obvious...

infantrycak
03-04-2005, 10:51 AM
How silly that you left Derrick Brooks off that list...

Listed the top 3 from each conference.

Pssssst the Pro Bowl OLBs also had 3 Sacks, 5 INTs, 4 FFs and 17 PDs(Spikes)... 10.5 Sacks and 1 FF(Suggs)...7 Sacks, 3 FFs, 12 PDs and 1 INT(Porter)...2.5 Sacks, 2 FF, 3 INTs(Brooking)...I could continue...but the trend is rather obvious...

Psst, can you say 3-4 vs. 4-3? Can you say $7 mil per year instead of $4 mil. Wasn't saying Greenwood was as good as those guys, just that saying he didn't have enough tackles is dumb. Care to seriously argue that point? Try reading the quote above a post and it will give you a lot better idea on the point being responded to.

MikeMc
03-04-2005, 10:53 AM
Zach Thomas, arguably the Fins best LB and perrenial Pro-Bowl player, has not had the "playmaker" numbers that people are saying Greenwood lacks as well.

Zach career numbers (9 seasons/ 133 games):

Sacks: 13.5
FF: 10
FR: 6
INT: 15

Tackles: 1259

Seems to me that either the Dolphins' defensive scheme is centered around LBs making tackles, not "plays", or that Zach is a "tackles-only" kind of LB!

What do you think??

Contrast that with the other highly touted Defensive player on the Dolphins:

Jason Taylor:
(8 seasons/ 124 games)

Sacks: 80.5
FF: 22
FR: 19
INT: 4

Tackles: 461 (342 solo)

And for the size issue, Morlon has 1 inch on Zach and about 8 pounds!!

cadahnic
03-04-2005, 10:53 AM
By the way Dude I have been doing scouting for years, and I get paid a good wage for it. I am just a big fan of the Texans because I am from Houston and played ball at A&M. I want to see them make smart moves not pass on good players and reach on bad ones. I also have waited years for the Houston to get a team and I am dont want to wait and listen to piss ant excuses about why they did not make the playoffs. We are getting rid or restructuring alot of contracts next year so we need to win now.

WildBlackBear32
03-04-2005, 10:59 AM
Psst, can you say 3-4 vs. 4-3? Can you say $7 mil per year instead of $4 mil. Wasn't saying Greenwood was as good as those guys, just that saying he didn't have enough tackles is dumb. Care to seriously argue that point? Try reading the quote above a post and it will give you a lot better idea on the point being responded to.

Yes, I can say 3-4 vs 4-3, because we are moving a 4-3 linebacker into a 3-4 system. Wanna know something about the majority of those Pro Bowlers?? They also played in 4-3 systems...so if they were able to force turnovers or get sacks, why couldnt Greenwood??

7 mill??? Suggs is going to make a base salary of 380k next year. 3.2 mil for Brooking. That Porter guy?? 3.5 Mil. The only LBs who made the Pro Bowl making more than 4 mil are Spikes and Brooks...

MojoX
03-04-2005, 11:02 AM
By the way Dude I have been doing scouting for years, and I get paid a good wage for it. I am just a big fan of the Texans because I am from Houston and played ball at A&M. I want to see them make smart moves not pass on good players and reach on bad ones. I also have waited years for the Houston to get a team and I am dont want to wait and listen to piss ant excuses about why they did not make the playoffs. We are getting rid or restructuring alot of contracts next year so we need to win now.
Big freaking deal. So what, the internet scouts can't agree on the value of this move. I don't even think the real NFL team scouts would share a unified opinion. What we know for sure is that the Texans scouts and staff obviously like Greenwood. Since I don't much more about the guy than what I know from NFL2K5, I'll just trust the Texans on this one.

Here's some reality about free agency: you always overpay. Casserly has repeatedly said it. That is why the Texans try not to break the bank for the (fan) consensus top guys and tend to focus on the draft. This team is in no position to mortgage its future cap space just to win now. Look at NE. They usually don't make exciting offseason moves or throw crazy money at big name players. They usually puzzle people by signing seemingly average and obscure guys. But they win. That is what the Texans are doing. Getting players who fit their team best so they can win.

MikeMc
03-04-2005, 11:03 AM
By the way, ILBs in a 3-4 are looked upon to shore up the run defense first, cover second, make plays third. Athletic/fast LBs succeed in the 3-4 D, so maybe the Texans brass wanted a LB that fits their system, not one that has looked good on paper.....besides, those Pro-Bowl players you mention:

Spikes, Suggs, Porter, and Brooking...they all play OLB! Porter & Suggs play OLB in a 3-4!

As for the ILBs from the Pro-Bowl:

AFC:
Lewis - 147 tkls, 1 sack, 1 FF, 0 INT
Farrior - 95 tkls, 3 sacks, 3 FF, 4 INTs
Bruschi - 120 tkls, 4 sacks, 2 FF, 3 INTs

NFC:
Dan Morgan - 102 tkls, 2 sacks, 1 FF, 2 INTs
Trotter - 61 tkls, 1 sack, 0 FF, 0 Int

So then Farrior is the stud in the bunch: Greenwood would be between Lewis and Trotter! According to numbers.

infantrycak
03-04-2005, 11:05 AM
Yes, I can say 3-4 vs 4-3, because we are moving a 4-3 linebacker into a 3-4 system. Wanna know something about the majority of those Pro Bowlers?? They also played in 4-3 systems...so if they were able to force turnovers or get sacks, why couldnt Greenwood??

Funny of the 4 you mentioned, 2 (those with the highest sack totals) play in 3-4 defenses. Ya think, maybe it was because Greenwood played behind Jason Taylor and the system wasn't set up for him to get the sacks (Miami's OLB's combined for 1 sack last year and the team was still a top defense)?

7 mill??? Suggs is going to make a base salary of 380k next year. 3.2 mil for Brooking. That Porter guy?? 3.5 Mil. The only LBs who made the Pro Bowl making more than 4 mil are Spikes and Brooks...

We aren't talking about acquiring those guys as draft choices so their cap numbers are reasonable, we are talking about free agent value. Edgerton Hartwell is asking $6 mil/yr. So call it $6+ for those guys as free agents.

MojoX
03-04-2005, 11:09 AM
Yes, I can say 3-4 vs 4-3, because we are moving a 4-3 linebacker into a 3-4 system. Wanna know something about the majority of those Pro Bowlers?? They also played in 4-3 systems...so if they were able to force turnovers or get sacks, why couldnt Greenwood??

7 mill??? Suggs is going to make a base salary of 380k next year. 3.2 mil for Brooking. That Porter guy?? 3.5 Mil. The only LBs who made the Pro Bowl making more than 4 mil are Spikes and Brooks...
Not all 4-3s are the same. You know that. Were those backs in a 4-3 zone blitz scheme (similar to a 3-4 zone scheme)? Were they cover-2 guys? What were they asked to do? Those questions matter. Greenwood was asked to tackle and be a run-stopper. Miami depended upon their D-line for sacks and their excellent secondary for pass defense. The LBs were dedicated run-stoppers. The stats for the Miami defense bear that out.

FYI, Sharper, despite starting all 16 games each season, never got over 100 tackles until his 5th year in the league. He only has 2 career interceptions and his sack numbers have been in decline since he became a Texan.

WildBlackBear32
03-04-2005, 11:11 AM
Funny of the 4 you mentioned, 2 (those with the highest sack totals) play in 3-4 defenses. Ya think, maybe it was because Greenwood played behind Jason Taylor and the system wasn't set up for him to get the sacks?

Brooking played a 4-3, had some sacks and INTs. Spikes played a 4-3 and had 5 INTs. Both those guys had good Dlines and still made plays.

So call it $6+ for those guys as free agents.

If 2+ million dollars will add 10 takeaways and a pro-bowler to our defense...I'm in.

WildBlackBear32
03-04-2005, 11:12 AM
Not all 4-3s are the same. You know that. Were those backs in a 4-3 zone blitz scheme (similar to a 3-4 zone scheme)? Were they cover-2 guys? What were they asked to do? Those questions matter. Greenwood was asked to tackle and be a run-stopper. Miami depended upon their D-line for sacks and their excellent secondary for pass defense. The LBs were dedicated run-stoppers. The stats for the Miami defense bear that out.

Atlanta and Buffalo ran the same type of system..

bckey
03-04-2005, 11:14 AM
Not all 4-3s are the same. You know that. Were those backs in a 4-3 zone blitz scheme (similar to a 3-4 zone scheme)? Were they cover-2 guys? What were they asked to do? Those questions matter. Greenwood was asked to tackle and be a run-stopper. Miami depended upon their D-line for sacks and their excellent secondary for pass defense. The LBs were dedicated run-stoppers. The stats for the Miami defense bear that out.

FYI, Sharper, despite starting all 16 games each season, never got over 100 tackles until his 5th year in the league. He only has 2 career interceptions and his sack numbers have been in decline since he became a Texan.


That is because our dl has never been more than average at best. And guess what, nothing is changing on the dl.

infantrycak
03-04-2005, 11:15 AM
If 2+ million dollars will add 10 takeaways and a pro-bowler to our defense...I'm in.

Mojo hit the nail on the head and you can't sign FA pro-bowlers to every position. You try to draft your pro-bowlers and fill in needs with solid FA's. There just isn't enough cap to sign Kendrell Bell, Orlando Pace, Plaxico Burress and keep the guys you are growing like AJ & Dunta.

infantrycak
03-04-2005, 11:19 AM
That is because our dl has never been more than average at best. And guess what, nothing is changing on the dl.

He is refering to the Sharper's first 5 seasons in the league while he was with the Ravens.

MojoX
03-04-2005, 11:22 AM
Atlanta and Buffalo ran the same type of system..
The question is whether those linebackers were depended on to perform the same duties as Miami's linebackers. Stop skirting the issue just to be argumentative. Bottomline is that none of us know what Greenwood can do beyond what Miami's coaches asked him to do.

I've know idea what point you were trying to make, so I checked the LB stats for both Atlanta (http://www.nfl.com/teams/stats/ATL) and Buffalo (http://www.nfl.com/teams/stats/BUF). Lets just say I wasn't impressed.

WildBlackBear32
03-04-2005, 11:28 AM
The question is whether those linebackers were depended on to perform the same duties as Miami's linebackers. Stop skirting the issue just to be argumentative. Bottomline is that none of us know what Greenwood can do beyond what Miami's coaches asked him to do.

I've know idea what point you were trying to make, so I checked the LB stats for both Atlanta (http://www.nfl.com/teams/stats/ATL) and Buffalo (http://www.nfl.com/teams/stats/BUF). Lets just say I wasn't impressed.

Which is why I said, YES, BUFFALO AND ATLANTA RAN THE SAME TYPE OF 4-3.I dont know what's so hard about that... Both teams had solid DLines and used the DBs for pass coverage and used the LBs for run stopping, yet both Brooking and Spikes still made plays.

To your second point...hey, if you'll take a guy with 10 or so more tackles and 10 fewer takeaways/sacks, that's your call....I'm willing to be the even casual football fan would choose otherwise.

bckey
03-04-2005, 11:32 AM
He is refering to the Sharper's first 5 seasons in the league while he was with the Ravens.

FYI, Sharper, despite starting all 16 games each season, never got over 100 tackles until his 5th year in the league. HE ONLY HAS 2 CAREER INTERCEPTIONS AND HIS SACK NUMBERS HAVE BEEN IN DECLINE SINCE HE BECAME A TEXAN.

infantrycak
03-04-2005, 11:33 AM
FYI, Sharper, despite starting all 16 games each season, never got over 100 tackles until his 5th year in the league. HE ONLY HAS 2 CAREER INTERCEPTIONS AND HIS SACK NUMBERS HAVE BEEN IN DECLINE SINCE HE BECAME A TEXAN.

Well gee, sorry don't go all caps on me. If you are talking about his INT and sack numbers going down it is because he moved from OLB to ILB primarily. That is also why his tackle numbers went up dramatically when he got here.

MojoX
03-04-2005, 11:40 AM
Which is why I said, YES, BUFFALO AND ATLANTA RAN THE SAME TYPE OF 4-3.I dont know what's so hard about that..
Complete sentences help. :)

Both teams had solid DLines and used the DBs for pass coverage and used the LBs for run stopping, yet both Brooking and Spikes still made plays.

To your second point...hey, if you'll take a guy with 10 or so more tackles and 10 fewer takeaways/sacks, that's your call....I'm willing to be the even casual football fan would choose otherwise.
But did they do it like Miami? That is the issue here. And it isn't a matter of getting 10+ tackles for -10 takeaways/sacks. So stop exaggerating. Not one linebacker on either team had more than 3.5 sacks. The only outstanding "playmaker" was Spikes with 3 sacks and 5 ints. The rest of the linebackers on either team had under 3 sacks.

My point is the same: even those teams didn't run the scheme like Miami did. Heck, I wouldn't expect the LB that plays behind Jason Taylor to rack up the sacks. You have to compare Greenwood's performance to what he was asked to do. You can't get a sack if the coaches don't blitz you. It is just that simple.

At the very least, Greenwood is an upgrade over Foreman who had no sacks, no ints, and only 79 tackles.

MojoX
03-04-2005, 11:44 AM
Well gee, sorry don't go all caps on me. If you are talking about his INT and sack numbers going down it is because he moved from OLB to ILB primarily. That is also why his tackle numbers went up dramatically when he got here.
This is what I am trying to demonstrate here. All this stat and playmaker stuff is too one-dimensional. Sharper has been a great defender. To understand his play, you have to understand more about the role he played and the team he was on. Sharper didn't become a worse blitzer. Our Dline was weak. Sharper didn't become a better tackler. His role in the D was to be the primary run stopper. Looking at stats alone one could argue that Sharper is a playmaker in severe decline, but it may not be that simple.

Its a similar thing with Greenwood. We gotta measure is production in terms of his role as much as we can. I am sure the Texans have done that.

titan hater
03-04-2005, 11:45 AM
MArlon at LIL.
Wong at RIL.
Babin at ROL.
Peek at LOL.

Marlon is fast and can cover. Can any of you remember the SD game. Thier TE killed us. In fact our D made most Opossinf TE look like Pro-bowler.

Speed kills! Although, Peek does get some stupid penalties he still has a tremendous upside. Every time he was in the game he caused the other guys QB to have to move a some. I truley beleive he is the real deal.

Wong is OK on the outside, but he is built like a prototyoical IL. If SHaper goes somewhere else Wong can do the job!

Babin was learning a new position last year. This year he will improve 5 fold!!

I am excited over this signing. It will be even better if we can get a 2nd rounder for Sharper...

WildBlackBear32
03-04-2005, 11:47 AM
At the very least, Greenwood is an upgrade over Foreman who had no sacks, no ints, and only 79 tackles.

And are 29 tackles worth 5 years for 22 mil?? Fact of the matter is, Greenwood's production will more than likely go DOWN with Sharper next to him. The only numbers with the probability of going up are his INTs, because if you watched him with Miami the last couple years, he is not a pass rusher because YES, he was asked to blitz on occasion.

MojoX
03-04-2005, 11:56 AM
And are 29 tackles worth 5 years for 22 mil?? Fact of the matter is, Greenwood's production will more than likely go DOWN with Sharper next to him. The only numbers with the probability of going up are his INTs, because if you watched him with Miami the last couple years, he is not a pass rusher because YES, he was asked to blitz on occasion.
I disagree. I think the tackle numbers go up or stay the same (near 100) while Sharpers come down a bit. ILBs in the 3-4 are runstoppers. I am sure Sharper will be happy to have a sure tackler with pursuit speed next to him. Greenwood brings more than 29+ tackles. Don't underestimate his speed and coverage ability. Capers said it as plain as day that Greenwood's attributes will allow the team to further develop the scheme and do things they couldn't do before. Beyond stats, the Texans needed players who would let them unleash the playbook. At the very least, I think this means Sharper (if he stays) will get to blitz more. This signing is about scheme more than it is about stats.

There is a difference between blitzing on occassion and having blitzing duties well schemed into your role. If Payne is healthy and playing up to his ability, a fast ILB is gonna have an easy path to the QB (assuming Peek and Babin are playing well). But we'll just have to wait and see how this all plays out.

Remember, you always overpay for FAs. Especially young, promising ones. That's just how the NFL works. As long as his contract doesn't destroy the Texans' cap, then no worries.

michaelm
03-04-2005, 12:26 PM
This issue seems to be blown a bit out of proportion to me.
I can't find it now, but I read on these boards where someone figured Greenwood's 2005 cap hit to be in the (I believe) $2.5 mil range.
If that's the case, it ONLY cost us that much to either have him replace Foreman in the line up, which is a pretty good improvement IMO;

or

Repalce Wong, and have Wong move inside to replace Foreman, which is also an improvement (again IMO).

I don't know (and probably none of you do either) the exact details of the contract, but it seems to me that if he doesn't show the produtivity that management expects, he can be unloaded before the big part of the contract kicks in.

2.5mil for a starting OLB (assumed outside) seems to be a pretty fair deal if you ask me.

This is an improvement to me. Not the free agent splash that many of you had hoped for, but the quality of the D has gone up. The level of improvement is all that remains to be seen.

And as said many times, doesn't risk future negotiations with Lucifer regarding salary cap issues!

cadahnic
03-04-2005, 12:32 PM
Greewood's cap hit is less than a million this year it is a back-ended contract. He is an upgrade over Foreman i just feel we paid a little bit more than what he was worth, but he is cheaper than going after Hartwell.

michaelm
03-04-2005, 12:34 PM
Greewood's cap hit is less than a million this year it is a back-ended contract. He is an upgrade over Foreman i just feel we paid a little bit more than what he was worth, but he is cheaper than going after Hartwell.

I believe that his salary is around $540,000 but figuring in his signing bonus spread out over the length of the contract, it goes to around $2.5mil.

I could very well be mistaken on that, but it is what I have read.

infantrycak
03-04-2005, 12:55 PM
I believe that his salary is around $540,000 but figuring in his signing bonus spread out over the length of the contract, it goes to around $2.5mil.

I could very well be mistaken on that, but it is what I have read.

Greenwood's prorated bonus is $1.4 mil per year so with the $540k salary this year his cap hit is $1.94 mil.

Lucky
03-04-2005, 02:49 PM
Come on...dose of reality time...you got 3-4 people here who get to watch Miami games all the time(myself included), telling you he's not worth it. You got a group of Fins fans on another BB, telling you he's not worth it...
So your version of "reality" is where internet posters' opinions should be more valued than Charley Casserly and Dom Capers' opinions? Don't you think that the Texans have access to coaching tapes of Dolphin games? Did you know that Miami came into Houston last summer for a series of practices and a scrimmage? Maybe the Texans saw something in Greenwood then that indicated he would be a good fit at ILB in the 34?

My version of reality is to give the Texans the benefit of the doubt in player evaluations. They've earned that by bringing in talent like Carr, AJ, Dunta, & Domanick. On the other hand, there are many internet posters around who haven't earned that respect. Yourself included.

infantrycak
03-04-2005, 04:22 PM
Maybe the Texans saw something in Greenwood then that indicated he would be a good fit at ILB in the 34?

And to add on that he would be a good fit at ILB in the 3-4 the Texans want to run because those two numbers don't define the whole defense. The Texans clearly believe his range/speed and coverage ability are valuable to the scheme they want to run next year. Players do shrink or thrive depending on the system they are in.

Ex. Mike Vrabel Pittsburgh 3-4 1st four years--56 total tackles in four year, 7 sacks total and 0 INT's. Then goes to New England 3-4 and in four years has 270 tackles, 22.5 sacks and 5 INT's.

The system and the player work together to create stats.

TexansTrueFan
03-05-2005, 05:08 PM
i heard someone on here say we overpayed greenwood, because he is average. Well maybe the coaches see some Star potential that other didnt see ! I guess we'll find out come this season, it sounds like a deadly LB core we have IMO !

ginessey
03-06-2005, 10:48 AM
He is the same size as our starting ILB for the last three years that he will be replacing--Foreman. And the texans didn't pay that kind of money for a situational LB.

FYI from the Texans roster:

Greenwood 238 lbs
Anderson 243 lbs (and 4" taller)
Foreman 240 lbs
Polk 242 lbs
Sharper 240 lbs


FYI from the Ravens roster:
Lewis 245 lbs
Thomas 270 lbs
Suggs 260 lbs
Hartwell 250 lbs
Green 250 lbs

from the Patriots roster:
McGinest 270 lbs
Johnson 250 lbs
Bruschi 247 lbs
Vrabel 261 lbs
Colvin 250 lbs
Banta-Cain 250 lbs
Chatham 250 lbs

According to ESPN.com
The deal includes a $7 million signing bonus and base salaries as follows: $540,000 (for 2005), $2.56 million (2006), $3.4 million (2007), $4 million (2008) and $5 million (2009).

You're right the Texans didn't pay that kind of money for a situational LB for 2006-2009.

Fiddy
03-06-2005, 10:57 AM
FYI from the Ravens roster:
Lewis 245 lbs
Thomas 270 lbs
Suggs 260 lbs
Hartwell 250 lbs
Green 250 lbs

from the Patriots roster:
McGinest 270 lbs
Johnson 250 lbs
Bruschi 247 lbs
Vrabel 261 lbs
Colvin 250 lbs
Banta-Cain 250 lbs
Chatham 250 lbsThomas, Suggs, and Green are OLB's for the Ravens and McGinest, Brabel, Vrabel, Chatham and Colvin are OLB's for the Pats. Greenwood is an ILB for us.

ginessey
03-06-2005, 11:17 AM
Thomas, Suggs, and Green are OLB's for the Ravens and McGinest, Brabel, Vrabel, Chatham and Colvin are OLB's for the Pats. Greenwood is an ILB for us.

My point exactly he's too undersized for OLB and he needs to maybe add just a few more pound to hold his own at ILB. Lewis 245/Hartwell 250 and Bruschi 247/Johnson 250 are ILB and have enough size to hold there own against 300lb guards and tackles on every down played. I'm not saying he won't be the answer. I'm just saying don't expect him to immediately start right away and put up Lewis and Bruschi numbers in his first year with us. IMO he's still a work in progress, but not a bad one.

Fiddy
03-06-2005, 11:24 AM
My point exactly he's too undersized for OLB and he needs to maybe add just a few more pound to hold his own at ILB. Lewis 245/Hartwell 250 and Bruschi 247/Johnson 250 are ILB and have enough size to hold there own against 300lb guards and tackles on every down played. I'm not saying he won't be the answer. I'm just saying don't expect him to immediately start right away and put up Lewis and Bruschi numbers in his first year with us. IMO he's still a work in progress, but not a bad one.He is not playing OLB, so dont compare his size to OLB. Sharper is only 2 pounds heavier than Greenwood and he has done just fine for us.

If the coaches share your feelings then they will tell Greenwood to add a few pounds. Nothing to worry about.

ginessey
03-06-2005, 11:36 AM
He is not playing OLB, so dont compare his size to OLB. Sharper is only 2 pounds heavier than Greenwood and he has done just fine for us.

If the coaches share your feelings then they will tell Greenwood to add a few pounds. Nothing to worry about.

Ok, we'll see, but remember that the 3-4 is whole lot different than the 4-3. LB's, especially ILB's, take on a whole lot more blocks than 4-3 OLB's.

Fiddy
03-06-2005, 01:01 PM
Ok, we'll see, but remember that the 3-4 is whole lot different than the 4-3. LB's, especially ILB's, take on a whole lot more blocks than 4-3 OLB's.I guess they do, but from what I have inferred by reading articles on Greenwood, he uses his speed to get around blocks rather than take them on.

Grid
03-06-2005, 02:03 PM
do ILBs in a 3-4 take on more blocks than OLBs in a 4-3?

I thought that is what the oversized Dline was for.

Vinny
03-06-2005, 03:59 PM
The dynamics are different. OLB's are converted defensive ends in a 3-4. They have to take on 330 pound Offensive Tackles and 230 pound guys give up 100 pounds or so to them. Inside guys are generally the coverage guys and chase guys in a 3-4. They don't really need to have as much size. All you have to do is look at how Dom Capers used short, undersized Sam Mills in his past defenses to understand how Greenwood is going to be used here.

ArlingtonTexan
03-06-2005, 05:25 PM
The dynamics are different. OLB's are converted defensive ends in a 3-4. They have to take on 330 pound Offensive Tackles and 230 pound guys give up 100 pounds or so to them. Inside guys are generally the coverage guys and chase guys in a 3-4. They don't really need to have as much size. All you have to do is look at how Dom Capers used short, undersized Sam Mills in his past defenses to understand how Greenwood is going to be used here.

For those that can't remember that far, notice the difference in aggressiveness of the Texans defense with career back-up Deshaun Polk played the final for or five games. The texans were more comfortable leaving him in coverage situations than foreman and blitzed more.

The Texans have needed more pure speed on defense. If Peek can figure how to play consistently, then the teams goes from a slow LBs corps to one of the faster one in one off-season.

BGRICK
03-06-2005, 09:59 PM
HAS ANYONE SEEN THIS PAGE http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&nid=83&lnid=83&pid=27 LOOK AT WHERE GREENWOOD IS LISTED DOES THIS SCARE ANYONE

MikeMc
03-06-2005, 10:07 PM
Nope, scout.com rates players based on name recognition...no actual scouting involved.

ESPN has Greenwood as the #31 FA overall, #5 LB. I'll take their (ESPN) word for it first.

ledzeppelin229
03-06-2005, 10:16 PM
Remember that scrap known as Steve Foley? No one knew who that was until the Chargers signed him simply from spot-duty with the Texans, and look what he's done in San Diego.

Before SD, he never had more than 4 sacks in a season, no more than 1 interception in like 5 seasons overall, and only 6 forced fumbles in that timespan.

Last season: 10 sacks, 2 interceptions, 5 forced fumbles.

RTP2110
03-06-2005, 10:22 PM
Whoa, C.Bradford as a 3 star Free Agent????

http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&nid=83&lnid=83&pid=16

TexanFanInCC
03-07-2005, 12:58 AM
i dont know much about morlon greenwood, but if casserly thinks he is good enough to start over jay foreman, then thats all i care about. i think this signing really makes things complicated. if we trade sharper, our linebacking core would be peek, wong, greenwood, and babin. thats really not that bad. in fact, it makes up much faster, and thats what capers has commented about. sharper is a heck of a tackler, but not very fast. we are a better pass rushing team without him. im just optimistic bc of what we could potentially get in return for a foreman or sharper. :cool:

TexanFanInCC
03-07-2005, 01:00 AM
Remember that scrap known as Steve Foley? No one knew who that was until the Chargers signed him simply from spot-duty with the Texans, and look what he's done in San Diego.

Before SD, he never had more than 4 sacks in a season, no more than 1 interception in like 5 seasons overall, and only 6 forced fumbles in that timespan.

Last season: 10 sacks, 2 interceptions, 5 forced fumbles.

i know dude that is incredible. it reminds me of jeff posey. a guy that could have been a major weapon goes off to kill us with their new team. we could have been a playoff team if we had foley's 10 sacks and 5 forced fumbles. :wacko:

infantrycak
03-07-2005, 07:39 AM
HAS ANYONE SEEN THIS PAGE http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&nid=83&lnid=83&pid=27 LOOK AT WHERE GREENWOOD IS LISTED DOES THIS SCARE ANYONE

Not when you see such brilliant scouting that they have Jarrod Baxter rated higher than Moran Norris and Greg Comella rated over both of them.

jagualex
03-07-2005, 02:21 PM
I have heard many say that the jags overpaid Hayward and the money is almost similar to greenwoods. How is it that we overpaid on him, and no one will say the same about greenood?

Fiddy
03-07-2005, 02:24 PM
I have heard many say that the jags overpaid Hayward and the money is almost similar to greenwoods. How is it that we overpaid on him, and no one will say the same about greenood?People in the media have said that we overpaid for Greenwood. Prisco said it in one of his articles off www.sportsline.com

jagualex
03-07-2005, 02:29 PM
People in the media have said that we overpaid for Greenwood. Prisco said it in one of his articles off www.sportsline.com

I was interested in what you thought. Do you think that he was worth the money?

He is a talented LB and has plent of exp. playing with those LB's he played with down in Miami. But how do you guys feel about him?

Fiddy
03-07-2005, 02:33 PM
I trust Casserly and Capers. He adds much needed speed to the LB corps and is an instant improvement over Foreman. I think if we did overpay for him then Capers wanted to make sure they got him cause he can do big things for us.

I have nothing against the signning

jagualex
03-07-2005, 02:37 PM
Ok, I like your thoughts. It was just bothering me how people were saying that we overpaid for a DE who has had 18 sacks the past two years. Then a guy who didnt make any "plays" last year besides tackles gets about the same deal Hayward got.


But i realize that you pay more for a guy when you really need him. He will be a great player for the texans and he is a very speedy LB that WILL make plays for you guys.

Fiddy
03-07-2005, 02:40 PM
Ok, I like your thoughts. It was just bothering me how people were saying that we overpaid for a DE who has had 18 sacks the past two years. Then a guy who didnt make any "plays" last year besides tackles gets about the same deal Hayward got.Yeah, I dont think yall overpaid for Hayward. He had double digits sacks last year and he wont get many double teams with the Jags cause Stroud and Henderson are in the middle.

jagualex
03-07-2005, 02:46 PM
I just hope that with this new addition our defense will finaly have the pressure on the quarterback it has so desperately needed. We get a decent corner opposite of Rashean and we will have a nice 'lil defense.

I cant really see any hole on your defense. But I do see some on offense. The o-line is what concerns me about the texans. With a good line, Carr can be a very, very good quarterback. And with that DD can put up some good numbers. So are the texans dedicated to DD as the starter or has there been any whispers of him being replaced?

Sorry for the interrigation its just im curious.

Fiddy
03-07-2005, 02:54 PM
I cant really see any hole on your defense. But I do see some on offense. The o-line is what concerns me about the texans. With a good line, Carr can be a very, very good quarterback. And with that DD can put up some good numbers. So are the texans dedicated to DD as the starter or has there been any whispers of him being replaced?

Sorry for the interrigation its just im curious.The hole on defense may be the D-line.

I think the O-line will do fine this year. Last year they had 3 out of 5 positions with new people. Wand came from i think Division II football to starting at LT. Pitts moved from LT to G, which he never played before. Wade just got here. And to add onto that, we had a new blocking scheme. The only place on the O-line I would like to see improved is center.

I cant give you an straight answer on the Davis question. The Texans seem to want a RB to share the load with Davis because Davis isnt the 30 carry a game pounder that Capers likes, although Capers uses him as one. He bought himself another year as the starter because of the last few games of last season. Timing is everything. (I cant say anymore because if I did I would come off as a Davis hater and be prosecuted)

jagualex
03-07-2005, 03:24 PM
The hole on defense may be the D-line.

I think the O-line will do fine this year. Last year they had 3 out of 5 positions with new people. Wand came from i think Division II football to starting at LT. Pitts moved from LT to G, which he never played before. Wade just got here. And to add onto that, we had a new blocking scheme. The only place on the O-line I would like to see improved is center.

I cant give you an straight answer on the Davis question. The Texans seem to want a RB to share the load with Davis because Davis isnt the 30 carry a game pounder that Capers likes, although Capers uses him as one. He bought himself another year as the starter because of the last few games of last season. Timing is everything. (I cant say anymore because if I did I would come off as a Davis hater and be prosecuted)

Well, your right, with all that lack of experience that they had last year on the ling. They cant do anything but get better. Never knew that about the texans line.

THEFUTURE
03-07-2005, 04:08 PM
our linebackers are deep... greenwood, peek, sharper, babin, foreman, wong, cheatwood, anderson, polk are the notable ones... that is a pretty good rotation of young and veteran players

Cincinnatikid
03-07-2005, 07:10 PM
at least one of the linebackers wont be on this team more than likely. Foreman and/or sharper may be gone according to the rumors so its early to judge what the rotation is going to be and who will even be at what position. I would say that the OLB rotation will be good, but then again this team doesnt really rotate the LB corp to much, as seen last year with no subs except for an occasional Peek appearance. However, i think starting Babin and Peek on the outside with the occasional sub of Cheatwood, Anderson, and Wong will be good. Wong probably will be moving mostly inside though.

THEFUTURE
03-07-2005, 07:17 PM
i think sharper will rework his contract, i hope, but foreman is ok... if greenwood is playing outside, then peek might not be starting... the 4 OLB i see having a big impact are Peek, Babin, Cheatwood, and Greenwood... since wong will be playing inside now

Vinny
03-07-2005, 07:41 PM
The team has already stated that Greenwood is playing inside, and have denied that Wong is moving inside.

wags
03-07-2005, 09:34 PM
The team has already stated that Greenwood is playing inside, and have denied that Wong is moving inside.

That kinda got me wondering. I think Cak may be right about the Sharper trade being a case of finding his market value for an extension. Dump Foreman, and we have Babin, Sharper, Greenwood, and Wong. Sounds good to me, because I am fine with Wong at OLB.

southtexan
03-07-2005, 09:57 PM
Here's what the Dophins fans have to say:

Huh?

Greenwood has'nt made a meaningful play in four years. Yes he made some tackles when Zach got hurt but in our system a traffic cone would get some tackles...it is about PLAYS...and Morlon has'nt made one in four years.
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He's a very solid player. I don't know if I'd say "playmaker". But I'll be interested in seeing what he can do in a more aggressive scheme (such as Houston's 3-4).
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MG is indeed a sold LB who I believe will improve over the next few years as he is still young, but when you look up Playmaker in the dictionary your def not going to find a picture of Morlon Greenwood
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It's funny how his named is never heard in a game.
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Kinda boring wasn't he...at least he wasn't a big penalty maker..
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If Morlon Greenwood was so solid ..... Can anyone name or place one big play he made over the last four years?? Like turnover,cause a fumble or big sack or INT!! You can't because in 4 years he never had an INT, a fumble recovery,forced fumble!! I mean we are talking about linebacker and four years!! NO BIG TIME PLAYS IN 4 YEARS!! NOTTA!!The price we paid for this clown rapper was way too much! He was a bust! I mean you sometimes luck out and even cause a turnover or even recover a fumble,especially at linebacker.Morlon had ZERO in four years!He's a ZERO! Trust me, The Texans did us a huge favor!
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Greenwood was the same way here at Syracuse...tons of athletic ability, but he never made any plays here either. When we drafted MG, I was still giving Wanny the benefit of the doubt, but it seriously made me question why we gave up a 2nd round pick the next year for a guy who never made any plays in college.
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He's a solid starter, but nothing special. Texans definitly overpaid. I don't see how he fits into the 3-4 either.
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the texans problem with there D is there so slow in the linebacker area...jamie sharper is fast but everyone else is slow...jason babin is fast and so is morlon greenwood...will help them more than it did us
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Texans need an inside linebacker more than anything, not sure why they went for Greenwood
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Their GM must be asking Ricky for advice. Morlon Greenwood is an ok player, they're paying him like if he was a game changer. They're on crack, they overpaid big time.
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I still don't get it. He doesn't fit their scheme at all. They should have at least looked at Ed Hartwell or Kendrell Bell. I would be pissed if I was a Texans fan.
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alot are saying it was a great signing because of his upside, and because he can play both outside and inside(not my words from the Texans message board on nfl.com) I'm cotemplating registering and telling them that in the course of 1 month, Moore, Pope, AND Ayo made more meaningful plays than Morlon did in 4 years here.[

I can assure you that CC knows what he is doing. :thumbup

THEFUTURE
03-08-2005, 02:29 AM
The team has already stated that Greenwood is playing inside, and have denied that Wong is moving inside.

alright well then take out greenwood where i placed him, and add in wong.. that solves that