PDA

View Full Version : What do our strongest units rank against rest of league?


TheRealJoker
02-14-2010, 09:08 PM
I'm assuming everyone will think our strongest units for offense/defense are WR/LB respectively...

Where does our WR unit and LB unit rank in comparison to the rest of the NFL? Top 10, top 5, number one?

Do not just take into account the starting unit, but also the depth of competing units. The Texans are deep at WR/LB!!!

redwhiteANDblue
02-14-2010, 10:09 PM
W.Rs has to be second to only the Pats. Pats have Moss and Welker and then don't forget Edleman that ripped up our defense last time. Our LBs have to be the best in the league. Demeco and Cushing? Thats just sickening.:tvhorror:

DiehardChris
02-14-2010, 10:15 PM
Can't forget about the Cards. Fitz, Boldin, Breaston, Doucet. Eagles with DJax, Maclin, Jason Avant. Pack have Driver, Jennings, James Jones. I'm probably forgetting a couple of other ones, too. I think the Texans are probably top 5-7 in WR.

NitroGSXR
02-14-2010, 10:59 PM
You guys really think very highly of our WRs. Andre Johnson is in a class of his own but Walter and Jones have not accounted for as much as one would think considering Schaub's gaudy numbers. Our passing attack relies on our RBs and TEs just as much as our WRs. I'd rank us between 7 to 10 but what the hell do i know. I just don't think we have as an elite corps as it's beginning to sound. Mainly because the Texans could easily decide to upgrade some of our WRs in the upcoming draft. We could use improvement.

TexansSeminole
02-14-2010, 11:34 PM
You guys really think very highly of our WRs. Andre Johnson is in a class of his own but Walter and Jones have not accounted for as much as one would think considering Schaub's gaudy numbers. Our passing attack relies on our RBs and TEs just as much as our WRs. I'd rank us between 7 to 10 but what the hell do i know. I just don't think we have as an elite corps as it's beginning to sound. Mainly because the Texans could easily decide to upgrade some of our WRs in the upcoming draft. We could use improvement.

I agree. After Andre, we don't have alot going for us besides Owen Daniels. Kevin Walter and Jacoby Jones work for right now, but we don't have any young guys looking to get PT. Andre Davis is not doing anything anymore, and David Anderson will probably always be a strictly situational guy. I wouldn't be surprised if we drafted a WR in the 4th or 5th round this year, especially if we are able to somehow trade back and get more picks. Last year I thought they might pull the trigger on Jarrett Dillard out of Rice. He seemed like a savvy guy who could take advantage of this system.

HOU-TEX
02-15-2010, 08:57 AM
You guys really think very highly of our WRs. Andre Johnson is in a class of his own but Walter and Jones have not accounted for as much as one would think considering Schaub's gaudy numbers. Our passing attack relies on our RBs and TEs just as much as our WRs. I'd rank us between 7 to 10 but what the hell do i know. I just don't think we have as an elite corps as it's beginning to sound. Mainly because the Texans could easily decide to upgrade some of our WRs in the upcoming draft. We could use improvement.

I agree, Nitro. We have a beast in AJ, then a handfull of your average WR's. I don't know if we'd use a pick on a WR, but I'd like to see a little upgrade there too. Will JJ continue to progress into a solid #2? Will K-dub bounce back if we were to re-sign?

I just noticed that we only have 6 WR's on the roster, including the PS. So, I expect we'll be bringing in a couple few more. Hopefully somebody can win the #2 outright.

Tailgate
02-15-2010, 10:25 AM
The LB and WR unit are at least in the discussions for sure.

Anyone else agree that TE could very well be up there as well? I thought Dreessen was actually pretty good in the open field. Then you have potential in Hill and Casey. But it was Open Daniels who was lighting up the league with league leading numbers before he went down.

Thorn
02-15-2010, 10:28 AM
In the top ten for both WR and LBs if you also include all the backups at those spots. Maybe even top five.

NitroGSXR
02-15-2010, 10:36 AM
In the top ten for both WR and LBs if you also include all the backups at those spots. Maybe even top five.

Again only referring to WRs... I think it's our backups that drag us down. Andre Davis, Glenn Martinez, David Anderson and Jacoby Jones are an average backup corp. To be called elite... You can't be worried about the TEAM if Andre Johnson goes down. Davis filled in admirably two years ago but he didn't do any running after the catch. I'd call that us undervaluing Matt Schaub more than anything else back then.

TimeKiller
02-15-2010, 10:40 AM
is QB a unit? cuz if so that's the strongest offensive unit...

NitroGSXR
02-15-2010, 11:02 AM
is QB a unit? cuz if so that's the strongest offensive unit...

That was my immediate thought then i reread TRJ's post. We have to consider our depth. Our depth there looks pretty gross and i mean that literally.

AnthonyE
02-15-2010, 08:57 PM
That was my immediate thought then i reread TRJ's post. We have to consider our depth. Our depth there looks pretty gross and i mean that literally.

Zing!

But if you think about it, our 2nd and 3rd string QBs are both former starters, one was a starter in a SB. That has to account for something. At least we don't have two players who haven't played in a game before.

Bronco Texan
02-15-2010, 09:09 PM
That was my immediate thought then i reread TRJ's post. We have to consider our depth. Our depth there looks pretty gross and i mean that literally.

Yeah, but except for maybe the Vikings and Eagles the rest of the League's depth is pretty bad too. So in that case I'd say we are at least in the top 10 for QBs.

m5kwatts
02-15-2010, 10:34 PM
QB - top 7

WR - top 5 (MIN, ARI, PHI, GB other 4)

TE - top 5

LB - the best 4-3 LB crew, top 5 in NFL if 3-4's are factored in

DE - top 10

NitroGSXR
02-15-2010, 10:53 PM
Truth be told... The QB position is not really a unit therefore it cannot be fairly ranked.

m5kwatts
02-15-2010, 11:16 PM
Truth be told... The QB position is not really a unit therefore it cannot be fairly ranked.

I shoulda put an asterisk stating your starting QB is a one man unit. You don't wanna have a quarterbacking unit I suppose-whats the saying, if you have 2 quarterbacks you don't have any?

NitroGSXR
02-16-2010, 12:06 AM
I shoulda put an asterisk stating your starting QB is a one man unit. You don't wanna have a quarterbacking unit I suppose-whats the saying, if you have 2 quarterbacks you don't have any?

Then i think you've got Matt Schaub ranked a little low. Note that i said Schaub not the Texans QBs. Schaub's pretty good.

m5kwatts
02-16-2010, 12:08 AM
Then i think you've got Matt Schaub ranked a little low. Note that i said Schaub not the Texans QBs. Schaub's pretty good.

I've gained a rep for being a bit too much of a :homer: so I'm trying to scale back a bit. This is what I'm working on this offseason haha.

RazorOye
02-16-2010, 07:57 AM
QB - top 7

WR - top 5 (MIN, ARI, PHI, GB other 4)

TE - top 5

LB - the best 4-3 LB crew, top 5 in NFL if 3-4's are factored in

DE - top 10

Are you talking about the 1 and 2 WR tandems from teams? Or are you factoring in all WR options as a corps?

NitroGSXR
02-16-2010, 11:08 AM
Are you talking about the 1 and 2 WR tandems from teams? Or are you factoring in all WR options as a corps?

I know you're responding to m5kwatts. I'd like to chime in. I 'm going to assume your question has to do with the Saints not being on his list. It doesn't matter whether we're talking about tandems or corps when it comes to the Saints. They definitely should be ranked right up there on top either way. Brees has a lot more to do with the Saints ariel attack because of his immaculate accuracy but how does a team find gold like they did with Colston in the 7th round and not be in the talks. The Saints have a great great WR corps for today's NFL. They're definitely super!

steelbtexan
02-16-2010, 11:22 AM
LB's top 5
Wr's 10-15 with a chance to move into the 7-10 range if JJ becomes the player he can be.

buddyboy
02-16-2010, 11:45 AM
This is one of those threads that you just cringe and think about what would happen if this season doesn't turn out so well.

"I can't believe we all thought our unit was top 5 in the league..."

I don't know where we stand against the rest of the league. LB, WR, QB, TE all seem to be some of our strong points, but as far as how we rank against the league, the only one I'd feel comfortable putting in the top 7-8 is Matt Schaub (even though one man doesn't really count as a "unit").

RazorOye
02-16-2010, 04:18 PM
I know you're responding to m5kwatts. I'd like to chime in. I 'm going to assume your question has to do with the Saints not being on his list. It doesn't matter whether we're talking about tandems or corps when it comes to the Saints. They definitely should be ranked right up there on top either way. Brees has a lot more to do with the Saints ariel attack because of his immaculate accuracy but how does a team find gold like they did with Colston in the 7th round and not be in the talks. The Saints have a great great WR corps for today's NFL. They're definitely super!

Well, either way I think there were some teams I'd include - if it's tandem, I think NE should be up there - I might put NE in Philly's place on that list and slide Philly behind Houston (with the option of moving them up as the youngsters get some more experience :) ). Even given Moss's temperament. But I do think that the Texans are higher on the WR tandem list than they would be on the WR corps list.

If we're talking corps, I'd take (Saints homer in me talking) Colston, Meachem, Henderson, and Moore over the Texans' entire corps, personally. I also think that the Colts have to be considered - Wayne is a terrific receiver and I think the injury to Gonzales (who I also think is quite good) allowed Garcon and Collie to get some time in. I think the lack of depth/performance behind Johnson and Walter drops them further down in this category.

When it comes to top #1 in the NFL, though, I have the Texans squarely at the top. I love every aspect of AJ's game - love watching him play.

m5kwatts
02-16-2010, 04:26 PM
Well, either way I think there were some teams I'd include - if it's tandem, I think NE should be up there - I might put NE in Philly's place on that list and slide Philly behind Houston (with the option of moving them up as the youngsters get some more experience :) ). Even given Moss's temperament. But I do think that the Texans are higher on the WR tandem list than they would be on the WR corps list.

If we're talking corps, I'd take (Saints homer in me talking) Colston, Meachem, Henderson, and Moore over the Texans' entire corps, personally. I also think that the Colts have to be considered - Wayne is a terrific receiver and I think the injury to Gonzales (who I also think is quite good) allowed Garcon and Collie to get some time in. I think the lack of depth/performance behind Johnson and Walter drops them further down in this category.

When it comes to top #1 in the NFL, though, I have the Texans squarely at the top. I love every aspect of AJ's game - love watching him play.

Yes I'm talking about the entire unite not just WR1 & 2. Welker's injury is serious enough to where I don't think he can be considered to be the same guy going forward. If he comes back and proves otherwise then they're a top 5 unit yes.

NO? I left them out on purpose. I just can't help but to think its the system and Brees. I mean, Lance Moore stepped up when others were hurt and grabbed 900 yards last year and did nothing this year. Meachem did nothing his first few years and was plugged in and he took off. Colston would be the only legitimate guy who I'd say could succeed on any team. Henderson comes and goes. I guess you could say they have a lot of solid WRs that combine to make a good unit but top 5? I don't know about that.

ArlingtonTexan
02-16-2010, 05:30 PM
This is one of those threads that you just cringe and think about what would happen if this season doesn't turn out so well.

"I can't believe we all thought our unit was top 5 in the league..."

I don't know where we stand against the rest of the league. LB, WR, QB, TE all seem to be some of our strong points, but as far as how we rank against the league, the only one I'd feel comfortable putting in the top 7-8 is Matt Schaub (even though one man doesn't really count as a "unit").

Actually QBs do count as a unit. A team needs to be able to evaluate what would have when the starter misses time. The Texans would have a better QB unit, if we trusted that Orlovsky was decent as a back-up versus we have no idea.

ArlingtonTexan
02-16-2010, 05:38 PM
Andre Johnson elavates the WR unit into the top ten, but the Texans are average to adequate at WR 2,3,4. At those spots, most of the playoff teams ae stronger than the Texans.

Because we have needed other things more, it was okay for the Texans to not address this spot either in the draft or FA, but now that the rest of the squad is better the Texans SHOULD add someone to challenge Walter, Anderson. Jones, Davis. They are not good enough to go three years of no FA signing, no draft picks as competition.

RazorOye
02-16-2010, 05:50 PM
NO? I left them out on purpose. I just can't help but to think its the system and Brees.

I am not sure what you mean by "system"

Schaub had more attempts and more passing yards than Brees did this year - should we argue, then, that AJ and Walter are overrated as WRs and just product of the system?

I think this is a bogus claim - it's not like Brees just sits back there and slings it all day.

I mean, Lance Moore stepped up when others were hurt and grabbed 900 yards last year and did nothing this year.

He did nothing this year because he was injured nearly the entire year. And I'll take his 16 game season over a 4 game season (limited even in those, too) as an indicator of potential. I think you tell more about someone's potential by what they do on the field rather than how well they watch a game from the sidelines, but ymmv...

Meachem did nothing his first few years and was plugged in and he took off.

his "first few years"? How many years do you think he's played? He's played two seasons - and what do you mean by "plugged in"? Did the system change drastically this year compared to last? Brees had 700 fewer yards this year and 120 fewer attempts - so what was he being "plugged" into?

It appears that you're making an argument that Meachem sucked before this year when he got into a more favorable passing attack - independent of his own growth. He "took off" because he got tired of hearing the "first round bust" label and started working out very hard in the offseason. Worked on his hands. Worked on his route running. Studied the playbook - he looked positively lost sometimes last year.

I would characterize that as a pretty poor argument, both in conception and in support.

Colston would be the only legitimate guy who I'd say could succeed on any team.

how generous of you...

NFL record holder for receptions in his first two seasons. No fluke. Guy works hard. Has amazing hands. Earned Brees's trust.

Henderson comes and goes.

henderson's hands killed his numbers in years past. They also killed drives and Brees's confidence. This year, though, he - like Meachem - sought help from Sonic Boom, worked closely with coaches to improve his hands. And it showed. He had several clutch catches, some circus grabs.

I guess you could say they have a lot of solid WRs that combine to make a good unit but top 5? I don't know about that.

I never said they were Top 5 - just that I'd have them ahead of the Texans. I hadn't thought about it that much vis a vis rankings, tbh.

But yea, they have a lot of solid WRs - I'd agree.

And my point is that you can't say the same about Houston.

Houston has one amazing phenomenal WR and one solid WR. I think it's the dropoff after that which hurts them.

Which is why I think the Texans have a better 1/2 punch but beyond that, I'll take our "lot of solid WRs" over what the Texans offer, top to bottom.

m5kwatts
02-16-2010, 06:04 PM
I am not sure what you mean by "system"

Schaub had more attempts and more passing yards than Brees did this year - should we argue, then, that AJ and Walter are overrated as WRs and just product of the system?

I think this is a bogus claim - it's not like Brees just sits back there and slings it all day.



He did nothing this year because he was injured nearly the entire year.



his "first few years"? How many years do you think he's played? He's played two seasons - and what do you mean by "plugged in"? Did the system change drastically this year compared to last? Brees had 700 fewer yards this year and 120 fewer attempts - so what was he being "plugged" into?

It appears that you're making an argument that Meachem sucked before this year when he got into a more favorable passing attack - independent of his own growth. He "took off" because he got tired of hearing the "first round bust" label and started working out very hard in the offseason. Worked on his hands. Worked on his route running. Studied the playbook - he looked positively lost sometimes last year.

I would characterize that as a pretty poor argument, both in conception and in support.



how generous of you...

NFL record holder for receptions in his first two seasons. No fluke. Guy works hard. Has amazing hands. Earned Brees's trust.



henderson's hands killed his numbers in years past. They also killed drives and Brees's confidence. This year, though, he - like Meachem - sought help from Sonic Boom, worked closely with coaches to improve his hands. And it showed. He had several clutch catches, some circus grabs.



I never said they were Top 5 - just that I'd have them ahead of the Texans. I hadn't thought about it that much vis a vis rankings, tbh.

But yea, they have a lot of solid WRs - I'd agree.

And my point is that you can't say the same about Houston.

Houston has one amazing phenomenal WR and one solid WR. I think it's the dropoff after that which hurts them.

Which is why I think the Texans have a better 1/2 punch but beyond that, I'll take our "lot of solid WRs" over what the Texans offer, top to bottom.

You sound like you think I think the Saints have a poor receiving corps. I never said that. Just not top 5. Houston having the best receiver in the NFL certainly boosts their ranking. You can't even begin to argue a Saints receiver being even close to his skill set. And it doesn't make sense to compare the Saints WR's to the Texans because the Saints are more of a spread-the-wealth kind of system, they have like 8 guys with atleast 40 catches, this is why I said its the system & Brees. We feed our best playmakers (Andre, OD) so others get neglected as far as catch numbers.

Both teams have deep WR units. IMO the Texans WRs have better hands. They have the best receiver out of both of the units. They're more consistent and also block better.

NitroGSXR
02-16-2010, 06:44 PM
Andre Johnson elavates the WR unit into the top ten, but the Texans are average to adequate at WR 2,3,4. At those spots, most of the playoff teams ae stronger than the Texans.

Because we have needed other things more, it was okay for the Texans to not address this spot either in the draft or FA, but now that the rest of the squad is better the Texans SHOULD add someone to challenge Walter, Anderson. Jones, Davis. They are not good enough to go three years of no FA signing, no draft picks as competition.

Unfair to say that we neglected to address the WR slot on any level. We didn't. We've brought in many WRs into camp every year. I mean... glenn Martinez didn't join the squad until this past season. It's just that Andre Davis is so two years ago and he shined in a contract year. Kevin Walter gained notoriety and is being gameplanned better. It's NOW time to upgrade but i'd be REAL happy if we had the squad from two years ago inserted onto the team today and maybe just maybe i'd even call them elite. We were THAT good. We were still waiting for Schaub to develop by well. We stunned the league and ourselves with our WR corps.

NitroGSXR
02-16-2010, 06:54 PM
Actually QBs do count as a unit. A team needs to be able to evaluate what would have when the starter misses time. The Texans would have a better QB unit, if we trusted that Orlovsky was decent as a back-up versus we have no idea.

Fair enough. My issue with that is when it comes to units... They contribute in almost every game. The QBs don't come out of games very often. A unit to me... Defines a rotation of some sort during the game. I think there are far more DNPs at the QB position than any other position. Even Andre Johnson comes out for a few plays to catch his breath thereby igniting a rotation within the unit. I hope that made sense. I think i confused myself a little. Heh.

Texecutioner
02-16-2010, 07:01 PM
We do not have the best LB corps in the league. I've been hearing that lately around here and we're getting up there, but we do not have the best LB corps.

Pittsburgh Steelers have 3 studs at LB in Harrison, Woodley, and Farrior. Harrison being a two time Defensive player of the year award winner. Those guys have also won SB's and really know what it takes to lead a top defensive unit year in and year out.

I'd say that we're right around the 5 position though.

The Steelers, Cowboys, Ravens, and the Jets would have to be higher than the Texans at this point. So that would put us at about 5 and I'm okay with that.

From a WR standpoint, well we're great there with AJ alone.

The Cardinals are leading the league there no question and then the Pats.

After that I'd say the Saints, Packers, and the Colts are all about tied and then I'd put the Texans right there.

Texecutioner
02-16-2010, 07:07 PM
I know you're responding to m5kwatts. I'd like to chime in. I 'm going to assume your question has to do with the Saints not being on his list. It doesn't matter whether we're talking about tandems or corps when it comes to the Saints. They definitely should be ranked right up there on top either way. Brees has a lot more to do with the Saints ariel attack because of his immaculate accuracy but how does a team find gold like they did with Colston in the 7th round and not be in the talks. The Saints have a great great WR corps for today's NFL. They're definitely super!

Good post and the biggest factor that supports the Saints being up there is the fact that all of these WR in that group have gotten hurt at one time or another, and yet they still have flourished and not missed a beat these past few years. Even last season when Colston went down for quite a few games the passing game was still great.When Moore went down this season it didn't matter either, nor has it when Meachum wasn't in the line up. All of these guys get it done and have for several years now.

ArlingtonTexan
02-16-2010, 08:47 PM
Unfair to say that we neglected to address the WR slot on any level. We didn't. We've brought in many WRs into camp every year. I mean... glenn Martinez didn't join the squad until this past season. It's just that Andre Davis is so two years ago and he shined in a contract year. Kevin Walter gained notoriety and is being gameplanned better. It's NOW time to upgrade but i'd be REAL happy if we had the squad from two years ago inserted onto the team today and maybe just maybe i'd even call them elite. We were THAT good. We were still waiting for Schaub to develop by well. We stunned the league and ourselves with our WR corps.

The Texans have an elite WR, Andre Johnosn. The rest of the players are just guys, who have not been challenged for playing time (martinez played virtuely no snaps on offense). I am happy that as a group they are professional and NFL worthy, but this is not a difference making corp san Andre Johnson.

RazorOye
02-16-2010, 09:59 PM
You sound like you think I think the Saints have a poor receiving corps.

what?

I quoted you saying that you said we had a lot of solid WRs - and I agreed. How does me agreeing with that equal me thinking you called them "poor"

How can I believe - simultaneously - that they are "solid" and "poor"?

Once again, I don't follow your argument - it just doesn't make sense.

You can't even begin to argue a Saints receiver being even close to his skill set.

once again - I don't follow where you pull some of this from.

Didn't I say that I had AJ as my #1 WR in the entire league? Where did I even suggest that there is a Saint WR with a comparable skillset?

Let's see what I said about AJ:

When it comes to top #1 in the NFL, though, I have the Texans squarely at the top. I love every aspect of AJ's game - love watching him play.

as for this:


And it doesn't make sense to compare the Saints WR's to the Texans

what?

isn't that - like - exactly what this thread is about? Comparing Texans units against the rest of the league?

Both teams have deep WR units.

You think the Texans are deep at WR? How deep? How happy are you with your 3rd and 4th and 5th options?

You've got a strong argument for one of the top tandems.

Past AJ and Walter - what convinces you that the Texans are so deep?

They're more consistent and also block better.

I don't know what you mean by "consistent" (isn't there a fair amount of concern over Jones's consistency, for example? And where is he on your depth chart?) - but as for blocking, I'm not sure because I don't know how well the 3rd and 4th WRs for the Texans block. As a unit, the Saints wideouts are strong blockers - all 4 of them. Their ability to block is absolutely vital to the Saints' offense. Look at the plays the Saints run on the perimeter and the efficacy of their screens

Look at Pierre Thomas's touchdown on the screen in the Super Bowl as one example - both wideouts at the bottom of the screen, the direction the play went to - went upfield, sold the passing route, and then got down to blocking. They do a good job of engaging the defenders and staying with their blocks for a long time.

I actually think it might very well be the most underrated aspect of the Saints WR corps - people talk about Colston's and Moore's hands, Devery and Meachem's speed, Moore's route running, Colston's size, etc.... and not enough people give props to how adept and willing they are to block. And our offense relies on that.

Ultimately, your arguments strike me as somewhat arbitrary and lacking - I would take the Saints corps together over the Texans corps and have yet to come across anything in your posts that convince me that the Texans WR corps is better and deeper than what the Saints offer.

Peace -

m5kwatts
02-16-2010, 10:19 PM
what?

I quoted you saying that you said we had a lot of solid WRs - and I agreed. How does me agreeing with that equal me thinking you called them "poor"

How can I believe - simultaneously - that they are "solid" and "poor"?

Once again, I don't follow your argument - it just doesn't make sense.



once again - I don't follow where you pull some of this from.

Didn't I say that I had AJ as my #1 WR in the entire league? Where did I even suggest that there is a Saint WR with a comparable skillset?

Let's see what I said about AJ:


as for this:



what?

isn't that - like - exactly what this thread is about? Comparing Texans units against the rest of the league?



You think the Texans are deep at WR? How deep? How happy are you with your 3rd and 4th and 5th options?

You've got a strong argument for one of the top tandems.

Past AJ and Walter - what convinces you that the Texans are so deep?



I don't know what you mean by "consistent" (isn't there a fair amount of concern over Jones's consistency, for example? And where is he on your depth chart?) - but as for blocking, I'm not sure because I don't know how well the 3rd and 4th WRs for the Texans block. As a unit, the Saints wideouts are strong blockers - all 4 of them. Their ability to block is absolutely vital to the Saints' offense. Look at the plays the Saints run on the perimeter and the efficacy of their screens

Look at Pierre Thomas's touchdown on the screen in the Super Bowl as one example - both wideouts at the bottom of the screen, the direction the play went to - went upfield, sold the passing route, and then got down to blocking. They do a good job of engaging the defenders and staying with their blocks for a long time.

I actually think it might very well be the most underrated aspect of the Saints WR corps - people talk about Colston's and Moore's hands, Devery and Meachem's speed, Moore's route running, Colston's size, etc.... and not enough people give props to how adept and willing they are to block. And our offense relies on that.

Ultimately, your arguments strike me as somewhat arbitrary and lacking - I would take the Saints corps together over the Texans corps and have yet to come across anything in your posts that convince me that the Texans WR corps is better and deeper than what the Saints offer.

Peace -

So you want to have an argument about WR corps vs WR corps yet you can't even name the Texans 3-4-5 receivers? Well here's some education for you. David Andersen is one of the most underrated slot receivers in the NFL, terrific hands, terrific route runner. Jacoby Jones caught 6 tds on 27 receptions, outstanding ratio for a receiver. Being behind AJ and Walter has slowed his development and again like I said, the Texans and Saints have very different passing philosophies. The Texans feed Andre and Owen Daniels the ball so the 2nd 3rd and 4th receivers aren't featured as much as say the Saints 2 3 and 4. That doesn't mean they're not as good. It just means they're not asked to do as much. And when Owen Daniels went on IR half way through the season the rest of the WRs picked up the slack and we stopped throwing to our TE's as much. And despite this, the Texans still led the league in passing yards.

NitroGSXR
02-16-2010, 11:19 PM
Razor... I absolutely agree. I was blown away by the blocking i saw during our preseason game earlier this year. The saints receivers are very strong. The Texans are weak in this department. One contributing factor to the failure of our run game. Outside of Johnson and Walter... We've got one decent blocker and that's Glenn Martinez. This is just my opinion and i do not speak for other Texan fans.

m5kwatts
02-16-2010, 11:33 PM
Razor... I absolutely agree. I was blown away by the blocking i saw during our preseason game earlier this year. The saints receivers are very strong. The Texans are weak in this department. One contributing factor to the failure of our run game. Outside of Johnson and Walter... We've got one decent blocker and that's Glenn Martinez. This is just my opinion and i do not speak for other Texan fans.

You mean you've never seen David Anderson chip 280 pound defensive ends? He's asked to do this a lot. Walter blocks like a tight end. In the WCO you're receivers HAVE to be able to block.

NitroGSXR
02-16-2010, 11:42 PM
but this is not a difference making corp san Andre Johnson.
That's what we all thought before Andre Davis stepped up and won some games by himself.

NitroGSXR
02-16-2010, 11:48 PM
You mean you've never seen David Anderson chip 280 pound defensive ends? He's asked to do this a lot. Walter blocks like a tight end. In the WCO you're receivers HAVE to be able to block.

I've seen him make a few good blocks but i've also seen him get utterly destroyed. I mean... chris meyers/kris jen kins destroyed. I'm happy with Anderson right now but i won't shed a tear if we upgrade his slot. It's VERY upgradeable.

m5kwatts
02-17-2010, 12:26 AM
I've seen him make a few good blocks but i've also seen him get utterly destroyed. I mean... chris meyers/kris jen kins destroyed. I'm happy with Anderson right now but i won't shed a tear if we upgrade his slot. It's VERY upgradeable.

I remember Kubiak once said you could install a portion of the playbook in the morning and David would be running it perfectly by the afternoon. He processes coverage very well, runs very good routes, and needless to say has stellar hands. How else do you think a 5-11 180 pound guy can get open so easily (yeah, Andre over there helps)? I can assure you, DA will be in the slot for the Texans for a long time, which is why we gave him a multi-year deal last year with relatively little actual NFL production.

NitroGSXR
02-17-2010, 12:56 AM
...is why we gave him a multi-year deal last year with relatively little actual NFL production. Maybe this is the problem that I'm having. Don't misunderstand, i'm not calling for Anderson's head. I like him. ArlingtonTexan said it best. We need to throw some competition in front the WRs. I'm saying specifically Anderson, Walter, and Davis but especially Anderson.

RazorOye
02-17-2010, 11:46 AM
So you want to have an argument about WR corps vs WR corps yet you can't even name the Texans 3-4-5 receivers? Well here's some education for you.

so out of that entire post, that's the only thing you found worth responding to?

And didn't I mention Jones's name in the very same post you quoted in its entirety? How do you figure, then, that I don't know anything about the Texans' WRs behind AJ and Walter?

By the way, you misspelled Anderson's last name :) ("David Andersen is one of the most underrated slot receivers in the NFL")

And I didn't include him because I don't think he is anywhere close to Henderson or Meachem or Moore - Moore was our 4th option this year when he played and I don't think there's any comparison between the two. Can that change? Of course - but I think he hasn't shown anything that trumps what the bottom of the Saints top 4 has done. I can't put his potential ahead of what the Saints talent opposite has done on the field - sorry, just can't make that jump

I will confess, though, that I don't know who the Texans 5th option would be

I watched every Texans game this season when it wasn't playing opposite the Saints but I'm not going to pretend to know them better than you do.

But even this post here, that I quoted, I would still take the Texans top 2 over the Saints top 2 and I'd take the Saints Top 4 over the Texans Top 4 - in a heartbeat.


Being behind AJ and Walter has slowed his development and again like I said, the Texans and Saints have very different passing philosophies. The Texans feed Andre and Owen Daniels the ball so the 2nd 3rd and 4th receivers aren't featured as much as say the Saints 2 3 and 4. That doesn't mean they're not as good. It just means they're not asked to do as much.

once again, your logic mystifies me

You keep talking about how the system benefits the Saints wide receivers - because we throw to them and that makes them better than they actually are (they still have to catch those balls and get open, ya know) - the Saints 2 and 3 and 4 have such inflated numbers because we throw to them so much and so often

ergo, they are overrated because of playing in a system that benefits them

and yet, you turn around and talk about how the Texans system feed AJ the ball so much. he benefits from the Texans' system in the same way the Saints depth benefits from theirs.

But when talking about the Saints, that system is a detriment and shows how they aren't really as good as some think but the system is a benefit to AJ's performance - a system that throws the ball more than the Saints

I mean, I wouldn't claim that AJ is only good because he's the product of a system that feeds him the ball. I think that's a pretty ludicrous claim -

But I also think it's ludicrous - perhaps not as equally of course - to say that the Saints WRs are only good because of the system.

As Nitro said though, it's only my opinion -

m5kwatts
02-17-2010, 04:33 PM
so out of that entire post, that's the only thing you found worth responding to?

And didn't I mention Jones's name in the very same post you quoted in its entirety? How do you figure, then, that I don't know anything about the Texans' WRs behind AJ and Walter?

By the way, you misspelled Anderson's last name :) ("David Andersen is one of the most underrated slot receivers in the NFL")

And I didn't include him because I don't think he is anywhere close to Henderson or Meachem or Moore - Moore was our 4th option this year when he played and I don't think there's any comparison between the two. Can that change? Of course - but I think he hasn't shown anything that trumps what the bottom of the Saints top 4 has done. I can't put his potential ahead of what the Saints talent opposite has done on the field - sorry, just can't make that jump

I will confess, though, that I don't know who the Texans 5th option would be

I watched every Texans game this season when it wasn't playing opposite the Saints but I'm not going to pretend to know them better than you do.

But even this post here, that I quoted, I would still take the Texans top 2 over the Saints top 2 and I'd take the Saints Top 4 over the Texans Top 4 - in a heartbeat.



once again, your logic mystifies me

You keep talking about how the system benefits the Saints wide receivers - because we throw to them and that makes them better than they actually are (they still have to catch those balls and get open, ya know) - the Saints 2 and 3 and 4 have such inflated numbers because we throw to them so much and so often

ergo, they are overrated because of playing in a system that benefits them

and yet, you turn around and talk about how the Texans system feed AJ the ball so much. he benefits from the Texans' system in the same way the Saints depth benefits from theirs.

But when talking about the Saints, that system is a detriment and shows how they aren't really as good as some think but the system is a benefit to AJ's performance - a system that throws the ball more than the Saints

I mean, I wouldn't claim that AJ is only good because he's the product of a system that feeds him the ball. I think that's a pretty ludicrous claim -

But I also think it's ludicrous - perhaps not as equally of course - to say that the Saints WRs are only good because of the system.

As Nitro said though, it's only my opinion -

Agree to disagree.

datchapin
02-20-2010, 01:58 PM
I think we have one of the top units in the league. It's hard to really quantify because we utilize AJ and OD so much so our other guys don't get the chance to show what they are capable of. Walter has one of the highest conversion rates in the league. However he's not really thrown to as much. DA also has solid hands, I remember that catch the second game against the Jags, jaw dropping. In addition he is great at YAC. JJ also seems to have focused more on his receiving game, I would hope his progress continues.

A. Davis, is the guy that perplexes me. He's a burner and proved when AJ went down that he was a reliable receiver down the field. Thus it perplexes me when the coaching staff lines him up in the slot and have him run routes over the middle when his strength is stretching the field on the outside. I understand that he was injured this yr. but when he was healthy I just question how the coaches utilized him.

Obviously the production we get is generated by AJ and OD for the most part, however Dreeseen showed he was capable of stepping in and producing. I never liked how long it took the coaching staff to start going to him, its not like he was a back-up he was a rotational player. We have the potential to be a top 3 unit, but the way our guys are utilized keeps us from proving it.