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badboy
02-12-2010, 03:28 PM
Charlie Pallilo recently mentioned on 790 radio that he would not be surprised to see Washington or Seattle throw ridiculous money at Dunta R. I think I have read that if restricted Texans could accept 1st & 3rd picks for him. I do not see any team doing that but..could Smith play these two teams off each other to get the best offer? I sure would like a 2. We don't have to just allow him to walk and can remove the tag for a trade and then use tag for another player. I can see both Owen Daniels and Demeco getting tagged if no deal reached.

Blake
02-12-2010, 03:31 PM
Somebody is going to pay DR. And it wont be cheap. The Texans are in a tough spot here.

Wolf6151
02-12-2010, 03:39 PM
I'm not exactly sure how all the tags work but we'd have to work out the trade before we franchised him and Dunta is definitely not worth franchise money. We could put the transition tag on him to save us or the other team some money and make his contract and trade more sensible, then take Kyle Wilson in the 1st round. I think Washington would be more likely to spend stupid money on Dunta and I'd be happy to take their 2nd round pick this year for him.

That would be a major trade deal for Smith to pull off and I just don't see him being able to sell that kind of deal.

badboy
02-12-2010, 03:49 PM
I'm not exactly sure how all the tags work but we'd have to work out the trade before we franchised him and Dunta is definitely not worth franchise money. We could put the transition tag on him to save us or the other team some money and make his contract and trade more sensible, then take Kyle Wilson in the 1st round. I think Washington would be more likely to spend stupid money on Dunta and I'd be happy to take their 2nd round pick this year for him.

That would be a major trade deal for Smith to pull off and I just don't see him being able to sell that kind of deal.My understanding is a team can tag a player and then remove the tag to use on another player if they want to release the player, trade him or sign for a long term deal. If correct, you do not have to work the trade before tagging him as he is restricted. I think this is what we did when we got Schaub who was a restricted FA but not tagged as franchise. We worked out the trade for two seconds.

The other team's position would be to hold out hoping we allowed him to walk. Our position is we paid him once, watch us do it again. If you want him, make the trade.

threetoedpete
02-12-2010, 08:38 PM
Its Tag day in NFL …

as usual GBN has a little primer on it's front page...no need to "think"

http://www.gbnreport.com/

Haven't you seen enough to believe that he's not worth 9 million ? Uncertainty might just be a better deal in this case.

infantrycak
02-13-2010, 09:10 AM
Charlie Pallilo recently mentioned on 790 radio that he would not be surprised to see Washington or Seattle throw ridiculous money at Dunta R. I think I have read that if restricted Texans could accept 1st & 3rd picks for him. I do not see any team doing that but..could Smith play these two teams off each other to get the best offer? I sure would like a 2. We don't have to just allow him to walk and can remove the tag for a trade and then use tag for another player. I can see both Owen Daniels and Demeco getting tagged if no deal reached.

Dunta will not be restricted even under the no cba rules. He has six years in the league. The only option is whether or not to franchise him again. That franchise tag price would be 20% over last year's. The stated compensation would be two 1sts but teams can negotiate that down.

badboy
02-15-2010, 02:33 PM
Dunta will not be restricted even under the no cba rules. He has six years in the league. The only option is whether or not to franchise him again. That franchise tag price would be 20% over last year's. The stated compensation would be two 1sts but teams can negotiate that down.When I posted that I was thinking five years. I should have checked. But am I not correct that we can franchise and then remove if traded?

infantrycak
02-15-2010, 02:56 PM
When I posted that I was thinking five years. I should have checked. But am I not correct that we can franchise and then remove if traded?

What happens is a team that doesn't want to pay two first round picks will agree in principle to a contract but it will not be signed. Then the team will contact the original team and see if a lower draft pick compensation can be agreed to. If they can the original team will sign the player to the contract terms the new team and player agreed upon and then trade that contract/player to the new team for the agreed upon price.

badboy
02-15-2010, 04:02 PM
What happens is a team that doesn't want to pay two first round picks will agree in principle to a contract but it will not be signed. Then the team will contact the original team and see if a lower draft pick compensation can be agreed to. If they can the original team will sign the player to the contract terms the new team and player agreed upon and then trade that contract/player to the new team for the agreed upon price.Agreed. So my scenario of getting a pick for Dunta is possible? I really don't want him on the team but can see him going to Washington.

Shaft75
02-16-2010, 10:02 AM
Agreed. So my scenario of getting a pick for Dunta is possible? I really don't want him on the team but can see him going to Washington.

No way does Shanny pick up Dunta.

badboy
02-16-2010, 02:02 PM
No way does Shanny pick up Dunta.Again I did not originate this, Charlie Pallilo mentioned it. Snyder has paid huge sums to other so-so free agents.

Shaft75
02-16-2010, 04:39 PM
Again I did not originate this, Charlie Pallilo mentioned it. Snyder has paid huge sums to other so-so free agents.

It wasn't well thought out then. I don't see Shanny overcoming the Denver connection cronyism to pull the trigger. Now, Seattle, maybe... Or a division rival...

threetoedpete
02-16-2010, 11:55 PM
No way does Shanny pick up Dunta.

I won't say no way. But I will say it will be interesting three years down the road and compare the Washington roster as of today with the Texans roster of 2006. And then compare the number of player spots differential three years down the road with the Washington in 2013 as to the Texans roster of 2009. I think Shanahan will have to take a wrecking ball to it over the next three years, myself. They are paying for all the reckless drafts of years past. And one untimely death. Which I think will pretty much kill "if a new coach comes in here he won't shake up the roster " argument featured in the pink soap thread.

badboy
02-17-2010, 01:50 PM
It wasn't well thought out then. I don't see Shanny overcoming the Denver connection cronyism to pull the trigger. Now, Seattle, maybe... Or a division rival...Not sure what you mean about Denver connection. Gary says "hey buddy, we like DR but we want to draft a younger guy in the first and don't want to pay the $ or go through the whole PR thing over a long term contract. Give me your second and Snyder will pay Dunta more than McNair."

Tailgate
02-17-2010, 02:51 PM
Taggem and baggem. We need as much depth as possible here while working on a DT, interior OL, RB, and safety as priorities.

badboy
02-17-2010, 03:13 PM
Taggem and baggem. We need as much depth as possible here while working on a DT, interior OL, RB, and safety as priorities.How about a trade down getting a lower 1st and another 2nd to go with our own 2nd. Then we get a 2nd for DR. We could easily get 4 very qualified players and the imo draft JD Walton a center from Baylor.

Tailgate
02-17-2010, 03:52 PM
How about a trade down getting a lower 1st and another 2nd to go with our own 2nd. Then we get a 2nd for DR. We could easily get 4 very qualified players and the imo draft JD Walton a center from Baylor.

If we were offered a second, then I would probably take it. BUT, this team and this coaching staff have to win NOW. If we lose DR, then CB becomes one of the highest priorities in the draft and the unit loses its only real vet and leader other than Reeves. It takes a while for a rookie CB to gain the coaches trust imo... and I just think that this D while may be better off in the long run, would be set back for 2010.

You have to weigh it out...would a 1st or 2nd round pick on a CB.... be better for this team THIS YEAR at that position... rather than just keeping D-Rob and seeing if the he can be even better being a full season removed from those devastating injuries. Or do it, and have other positions then take a back seat to the elevated CB priority and resulting in an extremely youthful and unproven CB unit to boot.

To me, this team is better tagging DR and checking that need off the list so to speak and focusing on holes that currently exist. Especially with the youth we have at that posish and with the money we threw at Reeves already.

badboy
02-17-2010, 04:28 PM
If we were offered a second, then I would probably take it. BUT, this team and this coaching staff have to win NOW. If we lose DR, then CB becomes one of the highest priorities in the draft and the unit loses its only real vet and leader other than Reeves. It takes a while for a rookie CB to gain the coaches trust imo... and I just think that this D while may be better off in the long run, would be set back for 2010.

You have to weigh it out...would a 1st or 2nd round pick on a CB.... be better for this team THIS YEAR at that position... rather than just keeping D-Rob and seeing if the he can be even better being a full season removed from those devastating injuries. Or do it, and have other positions then take a back seat to the elevated CB priority and resulting in an extremely youthful and unproven CB unit to boot.

To me, this team is better tagging DR and checking that need off the list so to speak and focusing on holes that currently exist. Especially with the youth we have at that posish and with the money we threw at Reeves already.I think DR has lost his leadership role and his popularity with fans. Be prepared for same routine from him as last year despite his recent comments. He was not worth $10 m this season nor will he be worth $12m next season. Bennett and Quin are two recent rookies who started at CB and Kubes recently was very positive about Quin's ability. There are two CBs for sure that could start game one. Haden and Kyle Wilson. A third possible is Perrish Cox who has the skills but discipline bothers the coaches. The last two will be there for us.

Tailgate
02-18-2010, 08:31 AM
I think DR has lost his leadership role and his popularity with fans. Be prepared for same routine from him as last year despite his recent comments. He was not worth $10 m this season nor will he be worth $12m next season. Bennett and Quin are two recent rookies who started at CB and Kubes recently was very positive about Quin's ability. There are two CBs for sure that could start game one. Haden and Kyle Wilson. A third possible is Perrish Cox who has the skills but discipline bothers the coaches. The last two will be there for us.

Im not really worried about the cost for DR.... especially this year. Its a one year tag. And you dont know if DR will get better or not this year, or if he will regain the fans or if he still has an effect as a leader or not. But typically after a big time injury year 2 is better than year 1.... and DR was a pretty damn good player in my mind before he went down.

Again, this team has to win right now. And tagging DR plays more to that theme than taking him out of the equation and replacing him with more unknowns and risks imo. I am done waiting 2+ years on rookies to hit their stride. We have just enough holes to fill with rookies already without creating another one at the CB position.

badboy
02-18-2010, 01:09 PM
McNair recently said he will operate the team budget as if there was a cap this year and it was noted on another thread that Smith has not discussed a long term deal nor the franchise tag with DR.

steelbtexan
02-18-2010, 10:50 PM
McNair recently said he will operate the team budget as if there was a cap this year and it was noted on another thread that Smith has not discussed a long term deal nor the franchise tag with DR.

Of course McNair is going to operate as if there's a cap this year.

Suprise suprise suprise

barrett
02-19-2010, 01:52 AM
Taggem and baggem. We need as much depth as possible here while working on a DT, interior OL, RB, and safety as priorities.

This is pretty much my line of thinking as well. It's not my money but it seems worth it to me.

Damnit, I'm stressed out about being able to afford the tickets this year and I'd give anything to get just a tiny crumb from these guys.

Thorn
02-19-2010, 08:18 AM
This is pretty much my line of thinking as well. It's not my money but it seems worth it to me.

Damnit, I'm stressed out about being able to afford the tickets this year and I'd give anything to get just a tiny crumb from these guys.

The money aspect of this game irratates me to no end. I hate this part of the season because of it. NFL players make boatloads of money, but then again they put their bodies at risk more than any other sport. One wrong move or bad play and they could have a crippling injury for life. I can see why they want the money. Most especially when us folks (and the TV networks and their advertisers) are willing to pay for it.

But I hate it anyway.

bigbrewster2000
02-19-2010, 08:40 AM
Of course McNair is going to operate as if there's a cap this year.

Suprise suprise suprise

He would be STUPID not to. If the cap comes back in 2011 or whenever a new CBA is agreed upon it would be far worse to try to cut under the cap than it would to operate as if there were one. It doesnt mean we wont re-sign players, it just means McNair wont go on some crazy player shopping spree. And he wont be able to anyway since there wont be much out there to get.

Way to over react.

bckey
02-19-2010, 11:27 AM
I'll say the same thing as last year. Let Dunta walk. He wasn't even close to being worth 9 million and he sure isn't worth 12 million. Spend that money on some of our other players like Ryans and Daniels that play and act like they want to be here and/or signing a free agent.

ubecool454
02-19-2010, 11:30 AM
Why would the redskins want DR when they have Carlos Rogers just spent to much money on Deangelo Hall? Maybe the Seahawks but not the Skins...it just doesn't make sense to me.

threetoedpete
02-19-2010, 11:37 AM
Speaking of trades:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/347781-antonio-cromartie-trade-talk-8-possible-running-back-trades

Dauta Robinson, a back and our number three for AC ? Probably take more than that....Tim Bullman ?

:peek:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Cromartie
http://sdg.scout.com/2/947589.html

Cornerback Antonio Cromartie has worn out his welcome with the Chargers. Cromartie was once considered a rising star as he oozed with athleticism and led the NFL with franchise-record 10 interceptions two years ago.

But he's been a pain off the field to some extent and his play on it has been questioned because of inconsistency.

Second Honeymoon
02-19-2010, 11:38 AM
McNair only gives the big money to players that suck like David Carr, plus McNair is on a self-imposed salary cap, which is Newspeak for 'I am being cheap and going into profit-mode. the 2011 nuclear winter is coming'.

Last year was the year we should have spent our money (Haynesworth would have been nice). This year there aren't any good Free Agents out there that fit our needs for the most part...so Bob has a built-in excuse too. They could have just paid Haynesworth and loaded most of his cap hit to last year and this year (uncapped)....but that would have meant spending money on top tier guys. We would rather spend top money on 2nd tier guys.

I am not hating on McNair for not spending this year, because that would be unwise because there aren't that many good guys out there....I am hating on him for not spending in the past (kris jenkins, haynesworth, faneca, michael turner, etc.)

McNair has his team and he has his profits. He is happy and most of the fanbase is too....after all we went 9-7 last year. Start the parades and re-sign the .500 coach to a 3 year extension. Break out the good china and silverware. Get out your finest bottle of Boone's Farm. It's celebration time in Houston. 9-7 baby!!!! wooo-freaking-hoo.

I know they shouldn't spend free agent money this year, but they better make sure that DeMeco and Pollard are happy. DRob can be franchised and Mario needs to play better before he deserves to get paid the money that he will inevitably want. Owen Daniels got hosed by the injury. This isn't Goodwill. He needs to accept that he was unlucky and picked a bad time to get injured. Sorry OD. I say, re-sign some guys and point the majority of their money towards this un-capped year.

oh and sign/draft a decent Center and Kicker. those two positions cost us 4 or 5 wins this past year.

Chris Myers sucks the big one.

Hervoyel
02-19-2010, 12:14 PM
I genuinely believe that Dunta is gone. I've believed that since last year and I haven't seen anything that would really lead me to think anything has changed. I think he wants out of town and I think there are owners out there who will pay him what he imagines he's worth. The only thing that remains to be seen is if (and how) we can find a way to get something in return for him. I'd franchise him again and then let it be known far and wide that I'd be happy to negotiate that price down. As a matter of fact I'd franchise him and shop him aggressively. I'd tell the world that I'd be thrilled to score a 2 for Dunta Robinson. I don't think it would be too hard to find a 2 for Dunta.

That leaves us what? Jacques Reeves, Antwuan Molden, Fred Bennett, Brice McCain, Glover Quin, and a guy named Mark Parson who came off the practice squad.

Would anyone here really be crapping bricks if we started the year with Reeves and Quin as our starting CB tandem? I mean, ok it's not even remotely optimal but we've been down this road before. We draft a rookie CB and keep moving forward. If we can get that 2 then drafting a replacement for Dunta becomes much less of a problem. Trade down to pick up another first day pick (I still think of first day picks as 1-3, old habits) as well and I think we'd be fine.

What did we pay Reeves all that money for if we aren't going to use him. So many times this past year I saw Mario & Co. get so close to the QB but just not get there in time or watch the QB step up into that perfect pocket and elude them. Get just one DT who can bust up the inside and Reeves and Quin would look like a pair of Pro Bowl corners thanks to the pass rush we'd generate.

In the first three rounds look for a RB, DT, and a couple of CB's in a BPA order in this scenario.

Tailgate
02-19-2010, 06:52 PM
He would be STUPID not to. If the cap comes back in 2011 or whenever a new CBA is agreed upon it would be far worse to try to cut under the cap than it would to operate as if there were one. It doesnt mean we wont re-sign players, it just means McNair wont go on some crazy player shopping spree. And he wont be able to anyway since there wont be much out there to get.

Way to over react.


Exactly. Which is why I am fine with tagging DR for one more year. Its not going to affect the future cap situation and there isn't going to be much to go after in free agency this year anyway.... so this self imposed cap to me shouldn't change much. But it ain't my money. I already stated that I would probably accept the hypothetical trade mentioned, but the likelihood of it actually happening isn't very high.

2slik4u
02-19-2010, 11:38 PM
Dunta will not be restricted even under the no cba rules. He has six years in the league. The only option is whether or not to franchise him again. That franchise tag price would be 20% over last year's. The stated compensation would be two 1sts but teams can negotiate that down.

can someone please explain every facet (wishful thinking) of the franchise tag in LAMENS TERMS.

Just thought I would throw that out there.....

2slik4u
02-19-2010, 11:46 PM
Speaking of trades:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/347781-antonio-cromartie-trade-talk-8-possible-running-back-trades

Dauta Robinson, a back and our number three for AC ? Probably take more than that....Tim Bullman ?

:peek:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Cromartie
http://sdg.scout.com/2/947589.html

I think D rob and Slaton would be great for Cromartie on both sides of the ball. We add a good CB, dont give a draft pick, and get rid of a headache all in the same deal......and possibly two headaches (slaton being the other one...not saying he is one, but out of the two seasons we have with him he has the best rookie season out of the NFL then the most ineffective starting RB in the NFL so we have the two extremes...it could be either or). Im just saying, we need a high picked RB anyways........crucify me now or worship me later....someone give me a prop on this and show me im not the only one thinking this...

TexanBacker93
02-20-2010, 10:51 AM
Charlie Pallilo recently mentioned on 790 radio that he would not be surprised to see Washington or Seattle throw ridiculous money at Dunta R. I think I have read that if restricted Texans could accept 1st & 3rd picks for him. I do not see any team doing that but..could Smith play these two teams off each other to get the best offer? I sure would like a 2. We don't have to just allow him to walk and can remove the tag for a trade and then use tag for another player. I can see both Owen Daniels and Demeco getting tagged if no deal reached.

With no CBA they will both be restricted FAs. No need to franchise them as long as they both get tendered. If they don't give Demeco a long term deal I think this will be his last season here, though. He deserves a better deal and I don't think he'll be happy playing another season on a 1 year contract for less money than he could make somewhere else.

infantrycak
02-21-2010, 11:04 AM
can someone please explain every facet (wishful thinking) of the franchise tag in LAMENS TERMS.

Just thought I would throw that out there.....

A franchise tag mandates the higher of either the average of the top 5 at that position or 20% over what the player made the last year. It gives the team the option to meet any offer made to the player. If they decide not to match the contract then they receive two 1st round draft picks (this can be negotiated down but that is the rule). Franchise tags can be used multiple times but on the 3rd year the number becomes average of the top 5 players in the NFL rather than at that position so basically what the top 5 QBs make.

beerlover
02-21-2010, 11:14 AM
A franchise tag mandates the higher of either the average of the top 5 at that position or 20% over what the player made the last year. It gives the team the option to meet any offer made to the player. If they decide not to match the contract then they receive two 1st round draft picks (this can be negotiated down but that is the rule). Franchise tags can be used multiple times but on the 3rd year the number becomes average of the top 5 players in the NFL rather than at that position so basically what the top 5 QBs make.

in the Dunta Robinson case instead of paying him 10 million he would get a 20% bump to 12 million correct?

is Rick Smith allowed to negoiate with other teams for his services before or after designated as such to aquire additional draft pick/s?

http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2010CB.php

infantrycak
02-21-2010, 12:14 PM
in the Dunta Robinson case instead of paying him 10 million he would get a 20% bump to 12 million correct?

is Rick Smith allowed to negoiate with other teams for his services before or after designated as such to aquire additional draft pick/s?

http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2010CB.php

20% over last year's franchise tag or average of top 5 whichever is highest. Since there weren't any huge CB deals last year I would imagine 20% will be the higher. The team is kind of out of it after tagging the player. He has to find a suitor to offer a deal. The team can make it known they would take less than 2 1sts but that's about it. They can't work the contract for the player.

beerlover
02-21-2010, 12:33 PM
20% over last year's franchise tag or average of top 5 whichever is highest. Since there weren't any huge CB deals last year I would imagine 20% will be the higher. The team is kind of out of it after tagging the player. He has to find a suitor to offer a deal. The team can make it known they would take less than 2 1sts but that's about it. They can't work the contract for the player.

thanks,

Since Rick would have to find a suitor is he allowed to talk with other teams now or wait until free agency officially begins?

infantrycak
02-21-2010, 01:44 PM
thanks,

Since Rick would have to find a suitor is he allowed to talk with other teams now or wait until free agency officially begins?

Frankly I don't know the official rule for certain but I think Rick can let it be known now they would take less. You can't tamper with your own team.

Hottoddie
02-21-2010, 03:15 PM
I agree that Dunta will not be on this team next year, but it would be great to get some kind of draft compensation this year rather than having to wait & see what compensatory pick we'd get next year.

Having said that though, in regards to the concerns some have about fielding a young CB tandem of Quinn/Reeves, Pollard showed how big an impact a veteran SS can make to the entire secondary. Why not go after a veteran FS in free agency?

If they don't franchise him, Nick Collins would be worth over paying to see if Green Bay would match the offer. There's also Antoine Bethea, O.J. Atogwe & several other FA FS's available.

Would you give up a 2nd round pick for Collins (RFA) if that's all it would cost? I would.

Signing a veteran FS in free agency would free us up to take the best CB or DT with our 1st round pick.

Lucky
02-21-2010, 03:28 PM
Frankly I don't know the official rule for certain but I think Rick can let it be known now they would take less. You can't tamper with your own team.
Just to clarify, Robinson would have to sign the tender prior to any trade taking place. The Texans can't trade his rights.

As far as the Texans tagging and trading Dunta, that's not realistic. The tender will be around $12 million. I doubt there's any team willing to pay Robinson that much in the 1st year of the contract. Much less give the Texans a draft pick, to boot. If the Texans tag Dunta, expect him to sign it immediately and be on the team in 2010.

Wolf
02-21-2010, 03:57 PM
But there might be an option 3A that the Texans could exploit if they feel spunky and don't want to let Robinson leave town without some compensation.

The CBA states that if Team B signs Team A's franchise player, then Team B must send Team A two 1st round draft picks as compensation. But if Team A (that would be the Texans in this case) is willing to part with said franchise player for less than two first rounders, then that's their prerogative if they can agree on alternate terms with Team B.

If the Texans franchise Robinson, there's no team out there that's going to give up a #1 draft pick for him, much less two. But I know there's a team out there that would be willing to pay Robinson more than $12 million in a long term deal.

The trick is to find the team that's willing to sign Robinson to a long term deal and part with a draft choice. It could be a second rounder or a third. But at least it would be something more than nothing.

In this scenario, after Robinson is tagged, the Texans could give Team B permission to negotiate the terms of a new contract with Robinson which would later be traded to Team B for the draft pick.

That sounds like a win-win, but as Paul Kuharsky of ESPN pointed out to me earlier today, the risk of Option 3A is that Robinson can sign his franchise tender at any time - and it's guaranteed.

That means that if Team B is a destination that doesn't suit Robinson, like say a Detroit or Cleveland, then Robinson could counter and say 'screw it, I'll play in Houston again this year,' which alleviates a major problem at corner but also leaves McNair holding the bag with a 'less than happy' player - one that's good but not great - making $12 million guaranteed in 2010.


http://www.examiner.com/x-778-Houston-Texans-Examiner~y2010m2d20-Texans-may-have-one-more-card-to-play-in-Dunta-drama

painekiller
02-21-2010, 08:31 PM
IIRC league rules state a team can not discuss trading a player who is not signed to a contract.

Remember this from one of the other franchise guys who would not sign with his team a few years ago. The press asked about this trade option and that option and the GM replied back flatly, the team is not allowed to discuss trades with other team regarding unsigned players. Now the team can release the the player's agent to bring them some trade offers, which would be in play with the player's signature.

badboy
02-22-2010, 11:57 AM
http://www.examiner.com/x-778-Houston-Texans-Examiner~y2010m2d20-Texans-may-have-one-more-card-to-play-in-Dunta-dramaThis was exactly the purpose of my thread. I also, don't think DR would not opt for a long term deal compared to 1 one year with Texans. That was his whole tirade last off season. Both Seattle (whose owner has cancer & wants a SB now) and Snyder @ Washington will probably offer a very lucrative deal.