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ToxicButt
02-08-2010, 10:29 PM
Maybe I'm imposing my personal impatience or that of Texans fans onto Kubiak and Smith. However, I have to believe that they feel 2010 is the year they need to break through. Schaub took a big step forward. AJ remains elite. We have an elite passing attack. The defense is improved and has a foundation of youth that will continue to improve. Much more so than 2008 and 2009, there's no excuse for not making the playoffs in 2010.

How does this impact their draft philosophy, particularly Rounds 1-3.

1. We need to draft players that will have immediate impact. We need another Cushing type addition, possibly 2.

2. I think Pollard and Dunta will be brought back. It is very rare to have a CB take over as a starter as a rookie. I don't know that anyone other than Hayden projects to that type of rookie. Continued improvement on defense is going to come from Dunta being 1 more year removed/recovered from the surgery and injury, from continuity, and from young players improving.

3. In think we wanted Coffee or Shonn Greene last year, and they were taken before our pick came up in the third round. I think at the time, Kubiak and Smith had strong misgivings about that. With our garbage run game, bare cupboard at RB, they can't let it happen again, and if anything, they'll overcompensate to make sure it doesnt.

4. Where does this leave the draft?

I think it's a lock they take Dwyer in the first round or Highest rated RB in second round. That would have the greatest impact on our team in 2010, no doubt about it.

From there, the next highest impact positoin is FS. I'd take highest rated, perhaps Thomas in Rd 1, or the BPA at FS in Round 2.

DT's are too big a gamble in the draft. To shore up the line, McNair just needs to spend the money.

Interior OL - I believe we can continue to stockpile talent and depth in the middle rounds. It's very possible to find startign caliber talent in the middle rounds.

Perhaps this is all elementary, but I think expectations and our experience from the 2009 draft will shape Kubiak's and Smith's behavior in the 2010 draft.

TheRealJoker
02-08-2010, 10:59 PM
Texans did a good job last year of drafting team captains and established college players. Only "project" was Barwin because it was his 2nd year on defense, but given the Antonio Smith signing it gave us the opportunity to add a true speed rusher which is another wrinkle this defense needed to add.

I hope its more of the same this season. I'd love to get another rookie with a Cushing-like impact!!!

Ole Miss Texan
02-08-2010, 11:02 PM
Maybe I'm imposing my personal impatience or that of Texans fans onto Kubiak and Smith. However, I have to believe that they feel 2010 is the year they need to break through. Schaub took a big step forward. AJ remains elite. We have an elite passing attack. The defense is improved and has a foundation of youth that will continue to improve. Much more so than 2008 and 2009, there's no excuse for not making the playoffs in 2010.

How does this impact their draft philosophy, particularly Rounds 1-3.

1. We need to draft players that will have immediate impact. We need another Cushing type addition, possibly 2.

2. I think Pollard and Dunta will be brought back. It is very rare to have a CB take over as a starter as a rookie. I don't know that anyone other than Hayden projects to that type of rookie. Continued improvement on defense is going to come from Dunta being 1 more year removed/recovered from the surgery and injury, from continuity, and from young players improving.

3. In think we wanted Coffee or Shonn Greene last year, and they were taken before our pick came up in the third round. I think at the time, Kubiak and Smith had strong misgivings about that. With our garbage run game, bare cupboard at RB, they can't let it happen again, and if anything, they'll overcompensate to make sure it doesnt.

4. Where does this leave the draft?

I think it's a lock they take Dwyer in the first round or Highest rated RB in second round. That would have the greatest impact on our team in 2010, no doubt about it.

From there, the next highest impact positoin is FS. I'd take highest rated, perhaps Thomas in Rd 1, or the BPA at FS in Round 2.

DT's are too big a gamble in the draft. To shore up the line, McNair just needs to spend the money.

Interior OL - I believe we can continue to stockpile talent and depth in the middle rounds. It's very possible to find startign caliber talent in the middle rounds.

Perhaps this is all elementary, but I think expectations and our experience from the 2009 draft will shape Kubiak's and Smith's behavior in the 2010 draft.
I agree with your line of thinking that we need immediate impact from our rookies. Some solid football players like Cushing.

I definitely want Pollard back and am on the fence concerning Dunta. I basically want him re-signed solely for the reason that it opens our draft and we aren't forced to take a cb early (unless we get a FA). I do think CB's like Kyle Wilson, Perrish Cox and maybe even Patrick Robinson or Brandon Ghee have the chance to make immediate impact.

I could see them taking a RB early this year, as where that's usually not the M.O. I doubt they take Dwyer at 20 though. I think they're still going to take BPA b/c that player, no matter what position, will probably make an immediate impact. If we take a RB early, he's going to have to be the whole package. Runner, Receiver and BLOCKER.

Also, you bring up finding starting calibre OL in the middle rounds? I think that's possible but I don't see why the same can't be said about RB, too. I feel like this is a really deep class and we're going to be able to find contributers throughout the draft. I always look forward to what sort of things Kubiak and Smith can pull off during the draft and this year is certainly no different. I think we could end up talking about the 2010 draft like we do about the 2006!

ToxicButt
02-09-2010, 12:05 AM
my god, i look at my moniker of Toxicbutt and I'm reminded that I joined this board when my kid was in diapers, hence the name.

Ole Miss - I think RB is much greater a need than interior OL. Slaton is a huge question mark, which means we have nothing proven and are light on talent. While there will be backs available in the middle rounds, I'd lean toward picking a RB in the first or second round because that guy is going to get 10-15 carries a game, unless he's a bust. That's more impact than anyone else could make as a rookie.

As for the OL, i think our running game suffered greatly because Slaton wasn't healthy. He certainly wasn't quick to the hole and didn't read well. Also, the loss of Pitts hurt quite a bit. It can be credibly argued that our run blocking should be at least average if you bring back pitts and add some talent in the middle rounds. What's missing is a dynamic RB like what Slaton provided.

I'd love for CJ spiller to fall to us at 19 or 20, as Zerlein thinks he will. He's a playmaker period and would be hard to pass on.

I guess the bottom line to me is that there will be good talent in all rounds, but RB is unique because it presents the greatest opportunity to make an immediate and significant impact for us. With that in mind, if players are graded closely in the early rounds, I'd pick the RB.

TexCanada
02-09-2010, 12:29 AM
I'm a pretty firm believer that good to great RBs can be found after the first round. I really don't think we should go RB in the first. If the opportunity was there in the second I'd be happy with it, but I'd prefer Gerhart in the 3rd. Of course that is simply my opinion.

I'm a defense first kind of a guy, and I would like to see either Earl Thomas or Kyle Wilson in the first round. After that I would probably go for Dan Williams, but its starting to look like he will be gone by our pick.

Our secondary, as it stands right now, is a huge issue. It is so thin back there right now that I honestly think that 1 injury could cost us our chance at playoffs. We need some warm bodies in there for training camp to compete for spots. I would be very happy to see us pick up a FS and 2 CBs at some point in this draft. If we resign D-Rob then that could fill one of those CB positions.

HOU-TEX
02-09-2010, 10:44 AM
Maybe I'm imposing my personal impatience or that of Texans fans onto Kubiak and Smith. However, I have to believe that they feel 2010 is the year they need to break through. Schaub took a big step forward. AJ remains elite. We have an elite passing attack. The defense is improved and has a foundation of youth that will continue to improve. Much more so than 2008 and 2009, there's no excuse for not making the playoffs in 2010.

How does this impact their draft philosophy, particularly Rounds 1-3.

1. We need to draft players that will have immediate impact. We need another Cushing type addition, possibly 2.

2. I think Pollard and Dunta will be brought back. It is very rare to have a CB take over as a starter as a rookie. I don't know that anyone other than Hayden projects to that type of rookie. Continued improvement on defense is going to come from Dunta being 1 more year removed/recovered from the surgery and injury, from continuity, and from young players improving.

3. In think we wanted Coffee or Shonn Greene last year, and they were taken before our pick came up in the third round. I think at the time, Kubiak and Smith had strong misgivings about that. With our garbage run game, bare cupboard at RB, they can't let it happen again, and if anything, they'll overcompensate to make sure it doesnt.

4. Where does this leave the draft?

I think it's a lock they take Dwyer in the first round or Highest rated RB in second round. That would have the greatest impact on our team in 2010, no doubt about it.

From there, the next highest impact positoin is FS. I'd take highest rated, perhaps Thomas in Rd 1, or the BPA at FS in Round 2.

DT's are too big a gamble in the draft. To shore up the line, McNair just needs to spend the money.

Interior OL - I believe we can continue to stockpile talent and depth in the middle rounds. It's very possible to find startign caliber talent in the middle rounds.

Perhaps this is all elementary, but I think expectations and our experience from the 2009 draft will shape Kubiak's and Smith's behavior in the 2010 draft.

Quin became a starter for us as a 4th round CB.

It's easy to say go out and shore up a particular position, but it ain't that easy. Especially this year where free agency's going to suck compared to previous season's due to the CBA. McNair can't go out and "spend the money" if there isn't much to spend it on

HuttoKarl
02-09-2010, 12:00 PM
In the past few drafts, we've gotten spectacular to solid talent in the early rounds. We got a Pro-Bowler DE, MLB and OLB. We parlayed a couple 2nd rounders into a Pro-Bowl QB. We have a RT that any team would like to have.

If we expect our secondary and Offensive line and Running game to improve, we need to stop hoping late round picks work out and grab first and second rounders in those positions to immediately upgrade.

ToxicButt
02-09-2010, 12:52 PM
In the past few drafts, we've gotten spectacular to solid talent in the early rounds. We got a Pro-Bowler DE, MLB and OLB. We parlayed a couple 2nd rounders into a Pro-Bowl QB. We have a RT that any team would like to have.

If we expect our secondary and Offensive line and Running game to improve, we need to stop hoping late round picks work out and grab first and second rounders in those positions to immediately upgrade.

Well said. It's about priorities and we absolutely have to make an impact on the running game through the draft.

Big Lou
02-09-2010, 03:11 PM
I'm a pretty firm believer that good to great RBs can be found after the first round. I really don't think we should go RB in the first. If the opportunity was there in the second I'd be happy with it, but I'd prefer Gerhart in the 3rd. Of course that is simply my opinion.

I'm a defense first kind of a guy, and I would like to see either Earl Thomas or Kyle Wilson in the first round. After that I would probably go for Dan Williams, but its starting to look like he will be gone by our pick.

Our secondary, as it stands right now, is a huge issue. It is so thin back there right now that I honestly think that 1 injury could cost us our chance at playoffs. We need some warm bodies in there for training camp to compete for spots. I would be very happy to see us pick up a FS and 2 CBs at some point in this draft. If we resign D-Rob then that could fill one of those CB positions.

I agree!

Although I can appreciatte wanting a great DT, our DL was a millisecond late on sacks so many times this year. A Blue Chip FS could add that millisecond the DL needs. I think that helping our secondary would make our DL look a lot better than it did this last year. Pollard proved he was much better in coverage than he's ussually give credit for, if we had a ball hawk at FS, QB's would really have to work harder for what they get!!!!!

krocket
02-09-2010, 03:37 PM
my god, i look at my moniker of Toxicbutt and I'm reminded that I joined this board when my kid was in diapers, hence the name. Anyway the draft goes, that is a very relieving thought, at first I thought it was your nick name. It could happen !

krocket
02-09-2010, 03:48 PM
It's easy to say go out and shore up a particular position, but it ain't that easy. Especially this year where free agency's going to suck compared to previous season's due to the CBA. McNair can't go out and "spend the money" if there isn't much to spend it onThere are a good number of restricted free-agents including some pro-bowlers. It is not cheap to procure a RFA, but it can and has been done. This year may a good one to give it a try since there are some teams that may not have the money to compete with us. So I guess I just can't agree with your statement.

badboy
02-09-2010, 04:32 PM
There are a good number of restricted free-agents including some pro-bowlers. It is not cheap to procure a RFA, but it can and has been done. This year may a good one to give it a try since there are some teams that may not have the money to compete with us. So I guess I just can't agree with your statement.Unfortunately, it is not just a money issue. RFA cost draft picks also. That is the huge problem. To get a starter you may have to give up at least a first and maybe more. I am not willing to do that for most RFA.
:barman:

HOU-TEX
02-09-2010, 05:08 PM
There are a good number of restricted free-agents including some pro-bowlers. It is not cheap to procure a RFA, but it can and has been done. This year may a good one to give it a try since there are some teams that may not have the money to compete with us. So I guess I just can't agree with your statement.

Unfortunately, it is not just a money issue. RFA cost draft picks also. That is the huge problem. To get a starter you may have to give up at least a first and maybe more. I am not willing to do that for most RFA.
:barman:

What badboy said. I've never been high on trading picks away. Unless the RFA is clearly more talented than what his team tendered him, I'll pass.

badboy
02-09-2010, 05:15 PM
What badboy said. I've never been high on trading picks away. Unless the RFA is clearly more talented than what his team tendered him, I'll pass.HouTex, even more so this draft, right? I am very happy that we should be able to land some very solid draft prospects this draft. We want more picks and some one mentioned trade down. Do you see any reasonable scenario of a trade being offer to Texans? I do not. The Duane Brown scenario was the exception not the rule as Joe Flacco was available.

infantrycak
02-09-2010, 05:18 PM
HouTex, even more so this draft, right? I am very happy that we should be able to land some very solid draft prospects this draft. We want more picks and some one mentioned trade down. Do you see any reasonable scenario of a trade being offer to Texans? I do not. The Duane Brown scenario was the exception not the rule as Joe Flacco was available.

Absolutely. Late 1st round trading is prevalent. All it takes is one team enamored with a player or a position. May not be a dramatic trade - as you say a type trade. I'll take an extra 2nd thru 4th depending on the situation.

badboy
02-09-2010, 05:25 PM
Absolutely. Late 1st round trading is prevalent. All it takes is one team enamored with a player or a position. May not be a dramatic trade - as you say a type trade. I'll take an extra 2nd thru 4th depending on the situation.I tend to agree as the players I want can be had later than #20. We got a third and a sixth and swapped firsts two years ago. You think a #2 is reasonable? If I could land Kyle WIlson any where in late first and get another 2nd rounder, wow!

ArlingtonTexan
02-09-2010, 05:33 PM
There are a good number of restricted free-agents including some pro-bowlers. It is not cheap to procure a RFA, but it can and has been done. This year may a good one to give it a try since there are some teams that may not have the money to compete with us. So I guess I just can't agree with your statement.

I think the best use of this strategy is when you see a guy with a minimium tender which will require a late round pick versus the earlier rounds. We have done this twice. Once we got Kevin Walter for a 7th and the other we got Myers.

RFA who have higher tender require both a large dollar contract and the lost of high draft picks meaning the player needs to be a true difference making player for it to be worthwhile.

Dutchrudder
02-09-2010, 05:38 PM
....

DT's are too big a gamble in the draft. To shore up the line, McNair just needs to spend the money.

Interior OL - I believe we can continue to stockpile talent and depth in the middle rounds. It's very possible to find startign caliber talent in the middle rounds.

Perhaps this is all elementary, but I think expectations and our experience from the 2009 draft will shape Kubiak's and Smith's behavior in the 2010 draft.

Here are a few potential free agent defensive lineman this year:

Marcus Spears (3-4)
Mark Anderson
Jason Hatcher (3-4)
Elvis Dumervil
Johnny Jolly
Aaron Kampman
Ryan Pickett
Travis Johnson
Jason Fergueson (3-4)
Jarvis Green (3-4)
Richard Seymour (3-4)
Fred Robbins
Derrick Burgess
Casey Hampton (3-4)
Brett Keisel (3-4)
Darryl Tapp
Jevon Kearse
Kyle Vanden Bosch
Jason Taylor

There are a few names that might be worth a look on there. I like Johnny Jolly since he is a bit younger than most of the big names on there.

ArlingtonTexan
02-09-2010, 05:41 PM
Speaking generally on the point of this thread. The drafting Brian Cushing of the world as far the exception to the rule. He was a rookie who looked like Romonowski in the peek of his career and was a top 5 SLB in the NFL. This sort of impact is not "normal."

The good new for the Texans, is that couple of position that many think they need are found regularly (not just in the first round either). RB and FS are often contribute early. OG/c don't have to be early picks, but ususally take a year or two. The good news at DT is this is one of the best DT drafts in quite awhile as it has impact at the top and depth available most rounds.

threetoedpete
02-10-2010, 04:01 AM
As for the OL, i think our running game suffered greatly because Slaton wasn't healthy. He certainly wasn't quick to the hole and didn't read well. Also, the loss of Pitts hurt quite a bit. It can be credibly argued that our run blocking should be at least average if you bring back pitts and add some talent in the middle rounds. What's missing is a dynamic RB like what Slaton provided.

I'd love for CJ spiller to fall to us at 19 or 20, as Zerlein thinks he will. He's a playmaker period and would be hard to pass on.



The reason Slaton is hurt is because....say it with me...there were no holes. nada. Zilich. Zero.

Pick any of the first fourteen games you choose and if you love o-line play it flat out hurts to watch the carnage and slop. I love our young ZBS guys and they will develop. But they stunk up the house last year. You can look at the rushing stats and see they clearly weren't ready for prime time. Once they hit Miami, who was dinged up... which meant they were playing talent commiserate with theirs, they, the o-line, got on a roll. For two games. Now on the one hand you could say the "guys" were coming together and there is no need to address it early.

Or you could realize although the sky isn't quite falling.....they've got to hit at least a guy who will elevate the level of competition. And believing you're going to get that latter, possible, is setting your self up for another Charles Spencer type season. they gotta know about their rushing attack and they gotta know after the draft. If you see a free agent out there, please do tell. But if there are no holes, I don't care if the dude is fast as sin...he ain't going to be worth squat until the o-line starts blocking and making holes.

I highly doubt they take another sub 210 pound running back, not early anyway.

infantrycak
02-10-2010, 09:15 AM
Speaking generally on the point of this thread. The drafting Brian Cushing of the world as far the exception to the rule. He was a rookie who looked like Romonowski in the peek of his career and was a top 5 SLB in the NFL. This sort of impact is not "normal."

The good new for the Texans, is that couple of position that many think they need are found regularly (not just in the first round either). RB and FS are often contribute early. OG/c don't have to be early picks, but ususally take a year or two. The good news at DT is this is one of the best DT drafts in quite awhile as it has impact at the top and depth available most rounds.

Yup don't set yourself up for disappointment thinking guys are routinely going to come in and be a Ryans or Cushing. Many years teams will get a heavy impact player but often it isn't the top pick and even then that doesn't mean perform at a pro-bowl level. I would add CB and OG as other positions where folks often contribute early.

Pick any of the first fourteen games you choose and if you love o-line play it flat out hurts to watch the carnage and slop.

I highly doubt they take another sub 210 pound running back, not early anyway.

It was tough to watch. I will disagree on the size of the RB. I just don't think this coaching staff is size oriented. They are style oriented. Chris Brown looks like an exception but he played their style in college under Gibbs. And personally I think a team would be silly to pass on a MJD because he is 208 lbs.

krocket
02-10-2010, 12:14 PM
Unfortunately, it is not just a money issue. RFA cost draft picks also. That is the huge problem. To get a starter you may have to give up at least a first and maybe more. I am not willing to do that for most RFA.
:barman:

I am not going to get in a fight with people that probably know more than I do about the subject, but I should have noted the link to my source. According to this site some really premium players may become UFA's if a new CBA is adopted. This means several pro-bowl guards may become available. They will still not be cheap but will not require picks. Obviously, this is a big IF.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2010/fa/ol.html

HOU-TEX
02-10-2010, 12:23 PM
I am not going to get in a fight with people that probably know more than I do about the subject, but I should have noted the link to my source. According to this site some really premium players may become UFA's if a new CBA is adopted. This means several pro-bowl guards may become available. They will still not be cheap but will not require picks. Obviously, this is a big IF.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2010/fa/ol.html

They've got around 3 weeks to come to an agreement for a new CBA in 2010. Considering the fact that the two sides are still World's apart and are already talking about the possibilities of the 2011 lockout, I'd say the odds of an agreement for 2010 are zip, zero, nada....

badboy
02-10-2010, 12:26 PM
Yup don't set yourself up for disappointment thinking guys are routinely going to come in and be a Ryans or Cushing. Many years teams will get a heavy impact player but often it isn't the top pick and even then that doesn't mean perform at a pro-bowl level. I would add CB and OG as other positions where folks often contribute early.



It was tough to watch. I will disagree on the size of the RB. I just don't think this coaching staff is size oriented. They are style oriented. Chris Brown looks like an exception but he played their style in college under Gibbs. And personally I think a team would be silly to pass on a MJD because he is 208 lbs.Do you have a personal evaluation on Chris Brown? I have him in 6th round. 5'10" 202 4.47. I have only seen bits and pieces on him but he seems to be the real deal.

badboy
02-10-2010, 12:30 PM
I am not going to get in a fight with people that probably know more than I do about the subject, but I should have noted the link to my source. According to this site some really premium players may become UFA's if a new CBA is adopted. This means several pro-bowl guards may become available. They will still not be cheap but will not require picks. Obviously, this is a big IF.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2010/fa/ol.htmlNo fight and I apologize if you thought I was attacking you. To add info to the post immediately after yours, the Union president was quoted by the NFL leader as saying the chance of a CBA not being agreed to as a 14 on a scale of 1-10. The 2 sides are too far apart to be resolved in months let alone 3 weeks.

infantrycak
02-10-2010, 12:38 PM
Do you have a personal evaluation on Chris Brown? I have him in 6th round. 5'10" 202 4.47. I have only seen bits and pieces on him but he seems to be the real deal.

I was referring to the current much reviled Chris Brown. He is unusually large for a Texans/Denver RB at 6' 3" 235 lbs but I think they made that exception because he ran for Gibbs in college.

I don't know enough about prospect CB to opine.

beerlover
02-10-2010, 12:54 PM
Yup don't set yourself up for disappointment thinking guys are routinely going to come in and be a Ryans or Cushing. Many years teams will get a heavy impact player but often it isn't the top pick and even then that doesn't mean perform at a pro-bowl level. I would add CB and OG as other positions where folks often contribute early.

understand your meaning & people make this mistake all the time especially when the record doesn't measure up to the sum of its parts. The only thing we set ourselves up for in the disapointment department is not becoming a legitimate playoff contender SOONER (this year) than LATER (years after next).



It was tough to watch. I will disagree on the size of the RB. I just don't think this coaching staff is size oriented. They are style oriented. Chris Brown looks like an exception but he played their style in college under Gibbs. And personally I think a team would be silly to pass on a MJD because he is 208 lbs.

Maybe I'm wrong but I don't have confidence in this organization to have the mentality to run it successfully with this type of RB. Dennison hasn't excatly set the league on fire in Denver with a pounding running game? another thing that bothers me is the similarity between Broncos & Texans injury history, none of their backs can make it even one full season healthy, not to mention our own. Is this a function of ZBS? Can both OL's be the problem? Or is it the physcial make-up of the backs they aquire?

This is a prime reason when I did my first Texans mock http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68968 I took a RB in both 1st & 3rd rds. One lightening (Spiller) one thunder (Dixon). I've since elevated Ben Tate to the Texans lone selection @ RB via the draft in the 3rd rd. because he does not have the injury history, he's flourished in the SEC, excellent blocking back (to replace Brown) & is the physical specimen 5-10 215 to fit scheme & play through the contact he will surely be expoused to.

JB
02-10-2010, 12:59 PM
understand your meaning & people make this mistake all the time especially when the record doesn't measure up to the sum of its parts. The only thing we set ourselves up for in the disapointment department is not becoming a legitimate playoff contender SOONER (this year) than LATER (years after next).





Maybe I'm wrong but I don't have confidence in this organization to have the mentality to run it successfully with this type of RB. Dennison hasn't excatly set the league on fire in Denver with a pounding running game? another thing that bothers me is the similarity between Broncos & Texans injury history, none of their backs can make it even one full season healthy, not to mention our own. Is this a function of ZBS? Can both OL's be the problem? Or is it the physcial make-up of the backs they aquire?

This is a prime reason when I did my first Texans mock http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68968 I took a RB in both 1st & 3rd rds. One lightening (Spiller) one thunder (Dixon). I've since elevated Ben Tate to the Texans lone selection @ RB via the draft in the 3rd rd. because he does not have the injury history, he's flourished in the SEC, excellent blocking back (to replace Brown) & is the physical specimen 5-10 215 to fit scheme & play through the contact he will surely be expoused to.


I am liking Tate a lot. I think he may be the best overall fit for the Texans due to his excelling in the passing game (blocking as well as receiving) and his downhill running style. He looked real good for the Senior Bowl.

beerlover
02-10-2010, 01:03 PM
I am liking Tate a lot. I think he may be the best overall fit for the Texans due to his excelling in the passing game (blocking as well as receiving) and his downhill running style. He looked real good for the Senior Bowl.

Agreed. Auburn produces excellent NFL backs & of all the backs I've seen them produce over the past few years he is not the flashiest, or quickest he is simply the most complete & durable.

infantrycak
02-10-2010, 01:16 PM
Maybe I'm wrong but I don't have confidence in this organization to have the mentality to run it successfully with this type of RB.

I wasn't making a personal comment of preference (although I do tend to like smaller RBs) but a comment on the Texans' philosophy. That's what counts at the end of the day.

badboy
02-10-2010, 01:17 PM
understand your meaning & people make this mistake all the time especially when the record doesn't measure up to the sum of its parts. The only thing we set ourselves up for in the disapointment department is not becoming a legitimate playoff contender SOONER (this year) than LATER (years after next).





Maybe I'm wrong but I don't have confidence in this organization to have the mentality to run it successfully with this type of RB. Dennison hasn't excatly set the league on fire in Denver with a pounding running game? another thing that bothers me is the similarity between Broncos & Texans injury history, none of their backs can make it even one full season healthy, not to mention our own. Is this a function of ZBS? Can both OL's be the problem? Or is it the physcial make-up of the backs they aquire?

This is a prime reason when I did my first Texans mock http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68968 I took a RB in both 1st & 3rd rds. One lightening (Spiller) one thunder (Dixon). I've since elevated Ben Tate to the Texans lone selection @ RB via the draft in the 3rd rd. because he does not have the injury history, he's flourished in the SEC, excellent blocking back (to replace Brown) & is the physical specimen 5-10 215 to fit scheme & play through the contact he will surely be expoused to.You think Tate will be a possession type back for us and power the ball in to end zone from 6 or less yards out?

beerlover
02-10-2010, 01:23 PM
I wasn't making a personal comment of preference (although I do tend to like smaller RBs) but a comment on the Texans' philosophy. That's what counts at the end of the day.

It is a function of the Texans philosophy. The Texans have not prioitized the RB position via the draft, they've gone the free agent route instead, with unsatisfactory results. They said something like "we targeted Shonn Greene & Glen Coffee but both where off the board by our pick (3rd)". My fear is that history repeats itself.

beerlover
02-10-2010, 01:24 PM
You think Tate will be a possession type back for us and power the ball in to end zone from 6 or less yards out?

not just yes, hell yes :handshake:

bah007
02-10-2010, 02:21 PM
not just yes, hell yes :handshake:

Agreed.

I've been on Tate's bandwagon just as long (if not longer) than anyone else here. I think he can do all the things we need in a RB.

Would love to see him or Mathews in a Texans uni.

steelbtexan
02-10-2010, 02:32 PM
Here are a few potential free agent defensive lineman this year:

Marcus Spears (3-4)
Mark Anderson
Jason Hatcher (3-4)
Elvis Dumervil
Johnny Jolly
Aaron Kampman
Ryan Pickett
Travis Johnson
Jason Fergueson (3-4)
Jarvis Green (3-4)
Richard Seymour (3-4)
Fred Robbins
Derrick Burgess
Casey Hampton (3-4)
Brett Keisel (3-4)
Darryl Tapp
Jevon Kearse
Kyle Vanden Bosch
Jason Taylor

There are a few names that might be worth a look on there. I like Johnny Jolly since he is a bit younger than most of the big names on there.

McNair said the Texans aren't doing the FA thing unless they are the 2nd/3rd tier FA guys. WOO HOO

badboy
02-10-2010, 02:34 PM
not just yes, hell yes :handshake:Ok, but don't make me call you and BAH out next season if I see 3 and two and Tate gets stopped for no gain.:thinking:

steelbtexan
02-10-2010, 02:38 PM
I am not going to get in a fight with people that probably know more than I do about the subject, but I should have noted the link to my source. According to this site some really premium players may become UFA's if a new CBA is adopted. This means several pro-bowl guards may become available. They will still not be cheap but will not require picks. Obviously, this is a big IF.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2010/fa/ol.html

McNairs noy going to spend money that it takes to get a pro-bowl quality OG.

He said this in his PC today.

bah007
02-10-2010, 02:59 PM
Ok, but don't make me call you and BAH out next season if I see 3 and two and Tate gets stopped for no gain.:thinking:

Haha I just hope Gerhart pans out wherever he ends up so we don't have to put you on suicide watch.

infantrycak
02-10-2010, 03:29 PM
McNairs noy going to spend money that it takes to get a pro-bowl quality OG.

He said this in his PC today.

No that is not at all what he said. He said he and Kubiak agreed there was significant risk in FAs who have played their best years and teams end up overpaying for a declining player but they were searching for young players like they did with Antonio Smith.

steelbtexan
02-10-2010, 03:40 PM
No that is not at all what he said. He said he and Kubiak agreed there was significant risk in FAs who have played their best years and teams end up overpaying for a declining player but they were searching for young players like they did with Antonio Smith.

Antonio Smith = 2nd tier FA signing

How many pro-bowl level players have the Texans ever signed?

Dont get your hopes up thinking McNair is going to sign a tier 1 FA.

It's not going to happen. IMHO

infantrycak
02-10-2010, 03:47 PM
Antonio Smith = 2nd tier FA signing

How many pro-bowl level players have the Texans ever signed?

Dont get your hopes up thinking McNair is going to sign a tier 1 FA.

It's not going to happen. IMHO

And that's fine stated as your opinion but that is not what McNair said. PS - they traded for Schaub who went to the pro-bowl. They attempted to sign Pace (and thank goodness that didn't happen). There aren't a lot of pro-bowl players on the market each year and typically they are past their prime.

badboy
02-10-2010, 05:23 PM
Haha I just hope Gerhart pans out wherever he ends up so we don't have to put you on suicide watch.Now that's funny. WHen we did not get Rashad Jennings last year it took me an hour to clean up my living room. I threw draft stuff every where.

krocket
02-10-2010, 07:49 PM
No fight and I apologize ....

Not at all, I just didn't want you guys to think I was beating a dead horse. Anything like this would be a long shot at best, but stranger things have happened. I posted this on another board but another long shot would be trading our #20 to a team like Tamp Bay that has two second rounds (#3/#10). We could pick some very nice starters with a value combination we should get three rounds of picks either 2,3,4 or 2,3,5 depending on whether we take #3 or #10 in the 2nd. Again, maybe a pipe dream, but it could happen !

ToxicButt
02-11-2010, 12:44 AM
It is a function of the Texans philosophy. The Texans have not prioitized the RB position via the draft, they've gone the free agent route instead, with unsatisfactory results. They said something like "we targeted Shonn Greene & Glen Coffee but both where off the board by our pick (3rd)". My fear is that history repeats itself.

That's exactly why I want them to take RB in the first or second round. since Spiller won't be there and I think there's a group of backs that follow, the best course is probably for them to take the highest rated back with the 2nd round pick.

I don't want them getting cute and waiting for the perfect value in Round 3, only to see that all the RB's in the group after Spiller are gone. There's a void of talent at RB and you have to put some resources there.

threetoedpete
02-11-2010, 12:55 AM
I am not going to get in a fight with people that probably know more than I do about the subject, but I should have noted the link to my source. According to this site some really premium players may become UFA's if a new CBA is adopted. This means several pro-bowl guards may become available. They will still not be cheap but will not require picks. Obviously, this is a big IF.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2010/fa/ol.html

The owners want a roll back. The union guy is an Obama protege'. Read 'hatchet man'. And he, Smith, wants the owners to open up their books. It's not looking too good for a season in 2011 nor an agreement. I just pretty much figure judging but whom the players chose to represent them, that there will be a lock out.

threetoedpete
02-11-2010, 12:57 AM
That's exactly why I want them to take RB in the first or second round. since Spiller won't be there and I think there's a group of backs that follow, the best course is probably for them to take the highest rated back with the 2nd round pick.

I don't want them getting cute and waiting for the perfect value in Round 3, only to see that all the RB's in the group after Spiller are gone. There's a void of talent at RB that i know about. You have to put some resources there.


there fixed it for you big guy.

ToxicButt
02-11-2010, 01:06 AM
there fixed it for you big guy.


What do you mean? We have a Slaton coming off neck surgery, Arian Foster and Ryan Moats. I think we may have the least talented/established stable of RB's in the league, if not the least, then in the bottom quarter.

Texecutioner
02-11-2010, 01:28 AM
Texans did a good job last year of drafting team captains and established college players. Only "project" was Barwin because it was his 2nd year on defense, but given the Antonio Smith signing it gave us the opportunity to add a true speed rusher which is another wrinkle this defense needed to add.

I hope its more of the same this season. I'd love to get another rookie with a Cushing-like impact!!!

What?? Those two TE's weren't project players?? They totally were.

badboy
02-11-2010, 04:20 PM
Not at all, I just didn't want you guys to think I was beating a dead horse. Anything like this would be a long shot at best, but stranger things have happened. I posted this on another board but another long shot would be trading our #20 to a team like Tamp Bay that has two second rounds (#3/#10). We could pick some very nice starters with a value combination we should get three rounds of picks either 2,3,4 or 2,3,5 depending on whether we take #3 or #10 in the 2nd. Again, maybe a pipe dream, but it could happen !If i'm TB you are going to have to give me more than #20 for the #3 & #10 second round.

badboy
02-11-2010, 04:21 PM
That's exactly why I want them to take RB in the first or second round. since Spiller won't be there and I think there's a group of backs that follow, the best course is probably for them to take the highest rated back with the 2nd round pick.

I don't want them getting cute and waiting for the perfect value in Round 3, only to see that all the RB's in the group after Spiller are gone. There's a void of talent at RB and you have to put some resources there.:goodpost:

Texan4Ever
02-13-2010, 07:46 PM
Hate to get away from the running back chat, just wanted to post my thoughts...


I don't think Dunta Robinson will want to resign with us, I feel that he might want to test the waters and see what other teams are offering him before he comes running back to us.

As for running back, its important that we establish a run game but I think there is no need because Slaton proved to us that he has the ability to carry the rock like he did his rookie season and I also feel that we have something special in Arian Foster, now all we need is a goaline back.

Our defense needs to continue adding playmakers and the starters on our roster need to continue improving. If we can get Joe Haden, Earl Thomas, or Perrish Cox in the first round then that will either fix our CB or S need.

Next we need to upgrade the interior offensive line by drafting a center and a guard so we can open up running lanes for whomever our running back will be.

We also need a punter and kicker to provide some competition for our current starters.

Basically, there are a number of ways we can go but the 2010 NFL Draft will be amongst our best (hopefully)...

:fans:

badboy
02-15-2010, 02:27 PM
Hate to get away from the running back chat, just wanted to post my thoughts...


I don't think Dunta Robinson will want to resign with us, I feel that he might want to test the waters and see what other teams are offering him before he comes running back to us.

As for running back, its important that we establish a run game but I think there is no need because Slaton proved to us that he has the ability to carry the rock like he did his rookie season and I also feel that we have something special in Arian Foster, now all we need is a goaline back.

Our defense needs to continue adding playmakers and the starters on our roster need to continue improving. If we can get Joe Haden, Earl Thomas, or Perrish Cox in the first round then that will either fix our CB or S need.

Next we need to upgrade the interior offensive line by drafting a center and a guard so we can open up running lanes for whomever our running back will be.

We also need a punter and kicker to provide some competition for our current starters.

Basically, there are a number of ways we can go but the 2010 NFL Draft will be amongst our best (hopefully)...

:fans:Interesting thoughts. Since we can tag him, I tell DR go get your deal and bring us back a 2nd round pick & we will let you go. I think you vastly over stated Slaton's ability to run the ball last season. Foster did well in 3 games against questionable defense. I hope you are correct & if you are why isn't Foster your Red Zone guy? He is 6 foot 232 lbs. Thomas is a great FS and may be a CB also. I like Kyle Wilson CB and Perrish Cox but the latter has to get his head screwed on straight. I think you will find CHester Pitts starting the season at LG.