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Brisco_County
02-08-2010, 07:51 PM
NFL Scout Daniel Jeremiah of movethesticks.com had this to say on his Twitter page today:

I believe this next season will be the breakthrough year for the Texans... Experience will catch up to their talent and they win 12 games

And his rebuttal to the rebuttal:

RT @BBSFLcommish: Everyone says the same thing every year about the Texans.>> not me, I said they would win 8 or 9 this year

Source: http://twitter.com/MoveTheSticks

Jeremiah knows his stuff, and his predictions have always been insightful and reasonable.

So what do guys think? Owen Daniels will be back. Things will start clicking. Do we win 12 games against the hardest schedule in the NFL?

TexCanada
02-08-2010, 08:30 PM
I think that it is quite possible, but it will be largely dependent on the players we add through FA and the draft. We have a couple of holes to fill still, like RB, the O-line and the secondary. If we can get at least some adequate players in those positions then I think we could be tough to beat.

redwhiteANDblue
02-08-2010, 08:31 PM
We wouldve won atleast 10 or 11 if it wasnt for OD breaking his knee. We were 5-3 with him (and we were playing our best football with him) and went on that ugly 4 game loosing streak. I think we had learned how to use him very well thats why we won 3 in a row. After he was gone, it was like they were almost confused and lost the next four. If we can just get A.J, J.J, O.D, and Matt at 100% I don't know what can stop us. Hopefully our run game will be patched up so that we could hold on to a 21-0 lead >.>

Craig.
02-08-2010, 08:32 PM
Do we win 12 games against the hardest schedule in the NFL?

I'm going with no. I'd like to be proven wrong, though.

Thorn
02-08-2010, 08:48 PM
We'll improve upon our 9-7 record and get a wild card spot next year.

Brisco_County
02-08-2010, 09:07 PM
We'll improve upon our 9-7 record and get a wild card spot next year.

Our division games are always close. I think we can win it.

Our needs also include a kicker. If we had one that could perform under pressure this season, we'd be in the playoffs.

devo-x
02-08-2010, 11:00 PM
Texans should set 9-7 as the baseline next year (although I'll predict 10-6 next year depending on the results of the draft and free agency)

Carr Bombed
02-08-2010, 11:00 PM
I think we'll be somewhere around 8-8 next season. But with that schedule we'll be the best 8-8 team in the league :rolleyes: (where have I heard that before)

This past season was the year to make the playoffs, Houston blew it. Next season we're playing just about every dominant DT/NT in the league and Schaub could very well end up missing games again if things don't get better up front.

TheRealJoker
02-08-2010, 11:02 PM
Texans are a very similar team to the Saints last year, not as explosive as that offense (I blame the interior OL!!!) but a better defense. Lost a lot of close games but maybe that's a good experience for us moving towards next year?

m5kwatts
02-08-2010, 11:54 PM
I think we'll be somewhere around 8-8 next season. But with that schedule we'll be the best 8-8 team in the league :rolleyes: (where have I heard that before)

This past season was the year to make the playoffs, Houston blew it. Next season we're playing just about every dominant DT/NT in the league and Schaub could very well end up missing games again if things don't get better up front.

I agree with this sentiment, this team has to get tough on the interiors on both sides of the ball if they're going to win games against all those tough teams on the schedule.

However I think if we do upgrade our interiors we'll be on the same level of competitiveness with the NFC East, Chargers, Jets, Ravens etc. We have an explosive offense even with a week interior and our defense over-compensated for having poor DT play well enough to be an above average unit this year.

We're right on the cusp but I agree if we ignore these spots we're looking at many more 8-8's.

houstonspartan
02-09-2010, 12:30 AM
I agree with this sentiment, this team has to get tough on the interiors on both sides of the ball if they're going to win games against all those tough teams on the schedule.

However I think if we do upgrade our interiors we'll be on the same level of competitiveness with the NFC East, Chargers, Jets, Ravens etc. We have an explosive offense even with a week interior and our defense over-compensated for having poor DT play well enough to be an above average unit this year.

We're right on the cusp but I agree if we ignore these spots we're looking at many more 8-8's.

MK5,

Co-sign.

El Tejano
02-09-2010, 08:55 AM
I think we'll be somewhere around 8-8 next season. But with that schedule we'll be the best 8-8 team in the league :rolleyes: (where have I heard that before)

This past season was the year to make the playoffs, Houston blew it. Next season we're playing just about every dominant DT/NT in the league and Schaub could very well end up missing games again if things don't get better up front.

True. I think we will get better though.

BIG TORO
02-09-2010, 09:14 AM
It will probably be more like 11-7 or 7-11!

GuerillaBlack
02-09-2010, 09:45 AM
Our division games are always close. I think we can win it.

Our needs also include a kicker. If we had one that could perform under pressure this season, we'd be in the playoffs.

I think this hurt us more than anything. Wish we had a kicker like Hartley. Right down the middle on all of his FGs since the NFC Championship game winner.

Dread-Head
02-09-2010, 12:10 PM
When Manning threw that interception he sent a message. The Texan Era...begins NOW.

HOU-TEX
02-09-2010, 12:20 PM
A 12 win prediction already? Welp! It looks like we're going to be cursed again in '10. :gun:

El Tejano
02-09-2010, 01:09 PM
A 12 win prediction already? Welp! It looks like we're going to be cursed again in '10. :gun:

Take it easy. It was brought up by someonelse not anyone here.

I do wonder what this dude would've had to say about our record and what he thinks about our coaching staff though.

Mailman
02-09-2010, 01:15 PM
If that prediction were to come true, then you might as well pencil in the Texans as next year's Lombardi Trophy winners because 12-4 with that schedule is something only a championship team could pull off.

Hardcore Texan
02-09-2010, 01:15 PM
I am just going to start agreeing with everything I read here for the rest of the offseason, even though that means I will contradict myself on a consistent basis.

It's just easier that way. So, yep, sure we will 12 games. :worldpeace:

The Pencil Neck
02-09-2010, 01:28 PM
I don't think our schedule next year is as bad as some people make out. And you never really know when some team is going to break out and have a great year or when a supposedly good team is going to collapse.

I don't think the NFC East is as tough as a lot of people may think. Every team in that division was 2-2 against non-conference opponents and their non-conference opponents were the AFC West (Chargers, Broncos, Raiders, and Chiefs.)

The Cowboys, Giants, and Eagles are all good teams but they're all beatable. The Redskins? Who knows. Shanahan may be able to turn them around or they could be a total freakshow next season as they try to re-tool for a ZBS offense. I think we at least win 2 of those games, possibly 3.

We're also going to be going against the AFC West and I think we're better than at least 3 of those teams.

I think we do better in our division next year and go at least 3-3.

That's 9 wins right there. I think our team is going to be improved next year and I think we'll be able to split with the Ravens/Jets. That gives us 10 wins.

So, I expect 10 wins. If we get some bad bounces of the balls, I'll go 9. If we have multiple injuries to star players, we could do worse. If some of the teams we're playing have injuries to star players, we could do better. But 10 is what I'm expecting.

I don't know if that will be good enough to get into the playoffs but I think it will be.

gary
02-10-2010, 05:29 PM
Mistake free football is the key a few less of those in 2009 and the Texans are in.

SteveSlaton20
02-10-2010, 06:51 PM
i say 10 wins next year.

infantrycak
02-10-2010, 07:44 PM
Mistake free football is the key a few less of those in 2009 and the Texans are in.

That's it. Stop with the one stupid play a game that throws away close games.

Call it Kubiak with the half back pass and not running a play on the Moats fumble. Call it the officials screwing us on the Walter pass interference. Call it CB not fumbling on the 1 foot line. Call it Schaub not throwing 2 pick sixes. Call it KB not missing field goals. This team should have been in the playoffs and the blame is shared around the team.

gary
02-10-2010, 07:53 PM
That's it. Stop with the one stupid play a game that throws away close games.

Call it Kubiak with the half back pass and not running a play on the Moats fumble. Call it the officials screwing us on the Walter pass interference. Call it CB not fumbling on the 1 foot line. Call it Schaub not throwing 2 pick sixes. Call it KB not missing field goals. This team should have been in the playoffs and the blame is shared around the team.Players going down are key as well but players who are out do not make mistakes and throw games away. Agree?

infantrycak
02-10-2010, 07:55 PM
Players going down are key as well but players who are out do not make mistakes. Agree?

Sure. I am just trying to point out with the injuries (and OD and Eugene Wilson were big ones) the Texans easily could have made the playoffs this year. Blame across the board. I hate this binary discussion each year when most of the discussion is 0 (coach) or 1 (players) - they all did it.

gary
02-10-2010, 07:59 PM
Sure. I am just trying to point out with the injuries (and OD and Eugene Wilson were big ones) the Texans easily could have made the playoffs this year. Blame across the board. I hate this binary discussion each year when most of the discussion is 0 (coach) or 1 (players) - they all did it.Only play who you have and they should make plays not screw them up.

Texans_Chick
02-11-2010, 04:36 PM
Funny, I was working on interview questions with Daniel Jeremiah when he did this tweet. I decided to ask him more about his prediction.

Here's my post over at Chron blog where he talks about this prediction, draft stuff, and surprise free agents:

Daniel Jeremiah of 'Move the Sticks' talks Texans (http://blogs.chron.com/texanschick/2010/02/daniel_jeremiah_of_move_the_st.html)

No big surprises but it's just food for thought.

Double Barrel
02-11-2010, 06:59 PM
We'll improve upon our 9-7 record and get a wild card spot next year.

This. :texflag:

thunderkyss
02-11-2010, 07:11 PM
We wouldve won atleast 10 or 11 if it wasnt for OD breaking his knee.

Good thing about it.... though it took him a while to get in the groove, Joel Dressen is a more than adequate back-up.

We were dangerous before.... now with two Bad-ass tightends

We'll be deadly.

thunderkyss
02-11-2010, 07:12 PM
We'll improve upon our 9-7 record and get a wild card spot next year.

Maybe we'll get lucky like the Jets, go 9-7 again, and back into the play-offs.

thunderkyss
02-11-2010, 07:28 PM
So, I expect 10 wins. If we get some bad bounces of the balls, I'll go 9. If we have multiple injuries to star players, we could do worse. If some of the teams we're playing have injuries to star players, we could do better. But 10 is what I'm expecting.

I don't know if that will be good enough to get into the playoffs but I think it will be.

If I'm Kubiak, it's got to be about winning the division. Every game is a must win from day one. No more testing new formations, no more practicing on the run game on game day.

That means putting game changers on the field. Jacoby over Walter, Foster over Brown, or the rookie, if he's got what it takes in practice.

If we have to settle for a Wild-Card, I hope it's week 13 or 14 before we concede.

thunderkyss
02-11-2010, 07:31 PM
Mistake free football is the key a few less of those in 2009 and the Texans are in.

No one else in the league plays mistake free.

I agree we need to reduce our give aways & increase our take-aways.

But more importantly, we've got to get better at overcoming adversity.

GuerillaBlack
02-11-2010, 07:58 PM
No one else in the league plays mistake free.

I agree we need to reduce our give aways & increase our take-aways.

But more importantly, we've got to get better at overcoming adversity.

I kind of think this started in the New England game when the Texans went down by fourteen. I'd be sold if the Patriots played all out, but they didn't. Still like what I saw (from the crowd and team). Build on that.

gary
02-11-2010, 08:41 PM
I do not mean zero mistakes.

threetoedpete
02-12-2010, 10:10 PM
When Manning threw that interception he sent a message. The Texan Era...begins NOW.

Plenty of time to get worked up. from your fingers to God's brain. I would love to see another big Houston run before I go. Pretty tough schedule.

steelbtexan
02-12-2010, 11:54 PM
If I'm Kubiak, it's got to be about winning the division. Every game is a must win from day one. No more testing new formations, no more practicing on the run game on game day.

That means putting game changers on the field. Jacoby over Walter, Foster over Brown, or the rookie, if he's got what it takes in practice.

If we have to settle for a Wild-Card, I hope it's week 13 or 14 before we concede.

I agree with this but

I'm a 10-6 or you haven't done a good job guy.

With this schedule Kubes is going to have to coach his butt off to get to 10-6.

Wether he can do it remains to be seen. Past history says it wont happen.

TexansSeminole
02-13-2010, 02:01 AM
I agree with this but

I'm a 10-6 or you haven't done a good job guy.

With this schedule Kubes is going to have to coach his butt off to get to 10-6.

Wether he can do it remains to be seen. Past history says it wont happen.

We can do that if we address specific needs during the offseason (running game, defensive secondary and line). We have a good core of players to work around.

DexmanC
02-13-2010, 03:25 AM
I kind of think this started in the New England game when the Texans went down by fourteen. I'd be sold if the Patriots played all out, but they didn't. Still like what I saw (from the crowd and team). Build on that.

I'd like to think that, but in '07 they went down 14-0 to the Panthers
AT Carolina in the second game of the season. It ultimately meant
squat. They went down 21-7 against the Titans AT Tennessee during
the second game of the '09 season. It ultimately meant squat.

TK is right. We need to see 16 full weeks of "do-or-die" football. No more
lackadaisical starts. No more half-assed games. 16 full weeks of "life-on-
the-line" football. Game ONE should mean just as much as game 16.

I listened to Eric Winston's show during the first month of the season. I
watched every interview after wins and losses. This team doesn't take
losses hard enough early in the season. Maybe it'll change in 2010, but
I'm about tired of this team playing with no urgency one week, and full-tilt
the next.

GuerillaBlack
02-13-2010, 09:30 AM
I'd like to think that, but in '07 they went down 14-0 to the Panthers
AT Carolina in the second game of the season. It ultimately meant
squat. They went down 21-7 against the Titans AT Tennessee during
the second game of the '09 season. It ultimately meant squat.

Well, at least this New England game had playoff implications. The Carolina and Tennessee games were the second weeks of the season. Plus, the Titans are a divisional opponent.

thunderkyss
02-13-2010, 10:42 AM
Well, at least this New England game had playoff implications. The Carolina and Tennessee games were the second weeks of the season. Plus, the Titans are a divisional opponent.

The point is the Texans faced adversity in all but the Seattle game. They did just enough to win some of those games, came up short in 6 games, and completely missed the mark in one game.

I remember saying a lot of the same things about the Texans taking that next step towards maturity last year(2008)..... We would have been 9-7 then if we didn't look past the Raiders. Or whatever it is we did.

That was after a four game win streak, which included wins against divisional rivals Tennessee & Jacksonville, and an up & coming team in GB.

I think with the talent we'll undoubtably add in 2010, we'll win more games straight up... we won't have to rely on gut check time to beat other mediocre teams.

Then when we play the New Englands, or the Colts, or the Steelers, or the Chargers.... we can dig down for that something extra, and the tank won't be empty.

Brando
02-13-2010, 11:31 AM
When Manning threw that interception he sent a message. The Texan Era...begins NOW.

I like the way you think Dread. I'm optimistic that we win 10 games and make the playoffs next year. We have a great offense and the defense improved and both should only get better next year. We better sign Pollard!

steelbtexan
02-13-2010, 12:02 PM
The point is the Texans faced adversity in all but the Seattle game. They did just enough to win some of those games, came up short in 6 games, and completely missed the mark in one game.

I remember saying a lot of the same things about the Texans taking that next step towards maturity last year..... We would have been 9-7 last year if we didn't look past the Raiders. Or whatever it is we did.

That was after a four game win streak, which included wins against divisional rivals Tennessee & Jacksonville, and an up & coming team in GB.

I think with the talent we'll undoubtably add in 2009, we'll win more games straight up... we won't have to rely on gut check time to beat other mediocre teams.

Then when we play the New Englands, or the Colts, or the Steelers, or the Chargers.... we can dig down for that something extra, and the tank won't be empty.

Agreed

Except there aren't many medicore teams on next years schedule.

The Texans are facing the Jets,Ravens,Chargers,Cowbows,Eagles,Gints and Broncos next year.

Not the Buff,Stl,SF,Sea etc.

There's going to be plenty of gut check times. We'll see if Kubes can pull 10-6 off.

thunderkyss
02-13-2010, 02:58 PM
Agreed

Except there aren't many medicore teams on next years schedule.

The Texans are facing the Jets,Ravens,Chargers,Cowbows,Eagles,Gints and Broncos next year.

Not the Buff,Stl,SF,Sea etc.

There's going to be plenty of gut check times. We'll see if Kubes can pull 10-6 off.

It's obvious we define mediocre a little differently. Seattle, San Francisco, Broncos, Buff & St Louis are bad teams.

Jags, Titans, Cowboys, Eagles, Balt, Giants are Mediocre teams

Colts, Patriots, Steelers, San Diego are good teams.

Of course this isn't all 32 teams, but you should get an idea of how I group them. To me, the good teams more times than not will win 10 or more games a year. Cowboys & Eagles are close, but they are just as likely to go 9-7 in 2010. Most people would be surprised if you predicted either team will win less than 9 games, but you can argue they'll have more than 9. The NFC doesn't have any good teams, the Saints, Eagles, Minnesota, & Cowboys were good in 2009, but I wouldn't bet my house they will be in 2010.

Mediocre teams, IMHO are in the hunt. these are the teams that can win on any given Sunday. They'll beat the good teams sometimes, and lose to the bad teams sometimes. They may go 13-3 one year, then 8-8 the next year. The Steelers should probably go here. If anything, I can see them being a high mediocre, or low good team. I believe the Texans are squarely in the middle of this bunch of teams.

Bad teams, are not very likely to win many games. The NFC has more poor teams than the AFC. These teams don't need to be worried about winning games. They need to be worried about building and learning.

WWJD
02-13-2010, 03:21 PM
It's obvious we define mediocre a little differently. Seattle, San Francisco, Broncos, Buff & St Louis are bad teams.

Jags, Titans, Cowboys, Eagles, Balt, Giants are Mediocre teams

Colts, Patriots, Steelers, San Diego are good teams.

Of course this isn't all 32 teams, but you should get an idea of how I group them. To me, the good teams more times than not will win 10 or more games a year. Cowboys & Eagles are close, but they are just as likely to go 9-7 in 2010. Most people would be surprised if you predicted either team will win less than 9 games, but you can argue they'll have more than 9. The NFC doesn't have any good teams, the Saints, Eagles, Minnesota, & Cowboys were good in 2009, but I wouldn't bet my house they will be in 2010.

Mediocre teams, IMHO are in the hunt. these are the teams that can win on any given Sunday. They'll beat the good teams sometimes, and lose to the bad teams sometimes. They may go 13-3 one year, then 8-8 the next year. The Steelers should probably go here. If anything, I can see them being a high mediocre, or low good team. I believe the Texans are squarely in the middle of this bunch of teams.

Bad teams, are not very likely to win many games. The NFC has more poor teams than the AFC. These teams don't need to be worried about winning games. They need to be worried about building and learning.

You're all over the place here..the NFC doesn't have any good teams but an NFC team just won the SB..they were good in 2009 but you wouldn't bet they will be in 2010.

Huh? What a confusing bunch of sentences this post is...

thunderkyss
02-13-2010, 03:44 PM
You're all over the place here..the NFC doesn't have any good teams but an NFC team just won the SB..they were good in 2009 but you wouldn't bet they will be in 2010.

Huh? What a confusing bunch of sentences this post is...

Do you believe the Cowboys, Eagles, Vikings, or Saints are going to win 10 games in 2010?

I know you're a Cowboy fan, but would you bet money the Saints will win 10 games next season?

Personally, I wouldn't.

Colts, Patriots, San Diego? I'll take that bet, & I'll consider the Steelers.

Every year is a different year. Some teams will get better, some teams will get worse.

Good teams are consitently good. Mediocre teams are good some times, not so good other times.

Bad teams are consistently bad.

WWJD
02-13-2010, 05:00 PM
Yes I believe the Cowboys, Saints, Vikes and Eagles are capable and probably will win 10 games next year.

Can't believe you actually said the NFC doesn't have any good teams. Particularly after an NFC victory in the SB....

That post was all over the place but you're entitled to your opinion!

steelbtexan
02-13-2010, 05:03 PM
TK

The Saints and Cowboys will win 10 games, history says the Eagles will win 10 games and if Favre comes back/stays healthy I garuntee you the Vikings will win 10 games.

I would take all of those teams to beat the Texans at this point. The Texans have all offseason to catch up personel wise. Kubes also needs to do a better job coaching on game day.

If all of this happens then the Texans will have the kind of season everybody wants. There's alot of hard work and hopefully self inspection that needs to go on in the front office/coaching staff.

If this doesn't happen McNair just sold the fans another bill of goods. IMHO

GuerillaBlack
02-13-2010, 05:04 PM
Do you believe the Cowboys, Eagles, Vikings, or Saints are going to win 10 games in 2010?

I know you're a Cowboy fan, but would you bet money the Saints will win 10 games next season?

Personally, I wouldn't.

Colts, Patriots, San Diego? I'll take that bet, & I'll consider the Steelers.

Every year is a different year. Some teams will get better, some teams will get worse.

Good teams are consitently good. Mediocre teams are good some times, not so good other times.

Bad teams are consistently bad.

You really don't think the Cowboys, Eagles, Saints, and Vikings won't win 10 games this year? Why? Cowboys and Eagles have been consistent for the past three years. Vikings have for the past two. If Favre comes back, it's ten games easily. Saints will win ten games, too.

And by your description, the Texans are definitely mediocre. Therefore, those four teams are better than us.

thunderkyss
02-13-2010, 06:17 PM
You really don't think the Cowboys, Eagles, Saints, and Vikings won't win 10 games this year? Why? Cowboys and Eagles have been consistent for the past three years. Vikings have for the past two. If Favre comes back, it's ten games easily. Saints will win ten games, too.

The Cowboys and Eagles have been anything but consistent.
Team...... 2009.........2008........2007.......2006
Cowboys...11-5........9-7...........13-3.......9-7
Eagles......11-5........9-6-1.........8-8.......10-6
Colts........14-2........12-4.........13-3.......12-4
Pats.........10-6........11-5.........16-0.......12-4

And by your description, the Texans are definitely mediocre. Therefore, those four teams are better than us.

Definitely

steelbtexan
02-13-2010, 06:46 PM
TK while you'r at it will you look up the Texans record against Dal. NYG,Wash,Philly,NYJ Balt. and SD.

If the Texans improve to 3-3 in division. They will need to go 4-3 in the games listed above and this includes a game in Denver that I didn't even list.

This coming season is going to be a tall task, Not impossible but very difficult.

GuerillaBlack
02-13-2010, 06:59 PM
The Cowboys and Eagles have been anything but consistent.
Team...... 2009.........2008........2007.......2006
Cowboys...11-5........9-7...........13-3.......9-7
Eagles......11-5........9-6-1.........8-8.......10-6
Colts........14-2........12-4.........13-3.......12-4
Pats.........10-6........11-5.........16-0.......12-4


Definitely

So, the Eagles had a down year in 2007 (went to 8-8), and the Cowboys have been above .500 for four years now. I'd say that's consistent. Aren't you a Cowboys fan?

dalemurphy
02-13-2010, 07:35 PM
TK while you'r at it will you look up the Texans record against Dal. NYG,Wash,Philly,NYJ Balt. and SD.

If the Texans improve to 3-3 in division. They will need to go 4-3 in the games listed above and this includes a game in Denver that I didn't even list.

This coming season is going to be a tall task, Not impossible but very difficult.

Our record versus the NFC east is irrelavent since we haven't played them in 4 years. But, yes, we likely will have a very difficult schedule next season. That being said, it doesn't scare me. This team no longer suffers from a talent deficit. I expect to win the majority of games versus good opponents moving forward.

thunderkyss
02-13-2010, 07:45 PM
So, the Eagles had a down year in 2007 (went to 8-8), and the Cowboys have been above .500 for four years now. I'd say that's consistent. Aren't you a Cowboys fan?

I don't follow the Cowboys the way I follow the Texans. I like for them to do well, but I root for Texas against everybody. I'm as much a Cowboy fan as I am a Spurs fan. But I love the Texans, & I love the Rockets.

Dallas is a consistent 9 win team.... that's what I said, upper mediocre. My definition, is that good teams are consistent 10+ wins.

I'll bet money the Cowboys & the Eagles will win 9 games. I won't touch a 10 game bet, because I think that most likely won't happen for both teams.

If the Cowboys belong on the same tier as Indianapolis & New England in your definition..... that's fine. I'm just not seeing it.

GuerillaBlack
02-13-2010, 07:50 PM
I don't see the Eagles and Cowboys as being there, but a step below. The Texans a step below that.

steelbtexan
02-13-2010, 07:54 PM
Our record versus the NFC east is irrelavent since we haven't played them in 4 years. But, yes, we likely will have a very difficult schedule next season. That being said, it doesn't scare me. This team no longer suffers from a talent deficit. I expect to win the majority of games versus good opponents moving forward.

Dale

Are you a 10-6 or bust kind of guy?

I ? whether the Texans talent level is good enough right now to finish 8-8. But if the talent level is upgraded I could see 10-6

If the talent level is as good as you think then if the Texans dont go 10-6 are you going to be on board with me that Kubes hasn't done a good job.

thunderkyss
02-13-2010, 08:16 PM
I don't see the Eagles and Cowboys as being there, but a step below. The Texans a step below that.

we aren't saying anything different.

The NFC doesn't have any teams comparable to the Colts & Patriots on a consistent basis.

Yes or No?

thunderkyss
02-13-2010, 08:28 PM
Dale

Are you a 10-6 or bust kind of guy?

I ? whether the Texans talent level is good enough right now to finish 8-8. But if the talent level is upgraded I could see 10-6

If the talent level is as good as you think then if the Texans dont go 10-6 are you going to be on board with me that Kubes hasn't done a good job.

It's not just talent level. The Cowboys have been one of the most talented teams, if not the most talented team, since Parcell's last year. Fujita & Shanle couldn't make it on that team, but they start on the Super Bowl winning Saints. It took them a few years before they could put it all together.

I feel like our talent level is better than 8-8, has been that way at least since 2008. They just need to put it together.

Remember we used to argue about how good Andre really is. There were a couple of years where he was neck & neck with T.O. for the most drops(seemed like it anyway). We don't have that discussion anymore.

Our margin of victory/loss says a lot about where we are as a team. That with the upward trend in talent level, offensive & defensive stats... I think it says we are headed in the right direction.

steelbtexan
02-13-2010, 08:52 PM
TK

You said a few years, How many years?

1,2,5

That would make 9,10,13 yrs without a sniff of the plyoffs.

Instead of using a term like a few years be more specific.

Like if Kubes bombs next year or doesn't make a run in the playoffs in 2 years he should be fired.

How long is long enough TK?

Norg
02-13-2010, 10:32 PM
If we can stay healthy we could go 16-0 with other teams

decling manily on the divison but if not I say yeah 9 to 11 wins

thunderkyss
02-13-2010, 11:11 PM
TK

You said a few years, How many years?

1,2,5

That would make 9,10,13 yrs without a sniff of the plyoffs.

Instead of using a term like a few years be more specific.

Like if Kubes bombs next year or doesn't make a run in the playoffs in 2 years he should be fired.

How long is long enough TK?

If it were up to me, we would have been in the play-offs in 2005. We would have been in the play-offs by now had McNair allowed Capers to do what needed to be done going into that season, & replaced the QB.

We would be in the play-offs by now, if McNair would have demanded we stayed in the 3-4, & not that we keep & build around a shell-shocked QB.

We would have been in the play-offs by now, if Kubiak could have got the guy he wanted for DC in 2006.

We would have been in the play-offs by now, if Kubiak would have fired Richard Smith going into the 2008 season.

That last one is the only one we could possibly lay blame on Kubiak, but for all we know, McNair made him honor that contract for at least another year.... who knows?

I think I've already been specific enough..... we win the division in 2010, or Kubiak is unemployed.

HJam72
02-14-2010, 08:42 AM
Don't forget that we could get a wild card birth and then start winning play-off games.

steelbtexan
02-14-2010, 10:03 AM
If it were up to me, we would have been in the play-offs in 2005. We would have been in the play-offs by now had McNair allowed Capers to do what needed to be done going into that season, & replaced the QB.

We would be in the play-offs by now, if McNair would have demanded we stayed in the 3-4, & not that we keep & build around a shell-shocked QB.

We would have been in the play-offs by now, if Kubiak could have got the guy he wanted for DC in 2006.

We would have been in the play-offs by now, if Kubiak would have fired Richard Smith going into the 2008 season.

That last one is the only one we could possibly lay blame on Kubiak, but for all we know, McNair made him honor that contract for at least another year.... who know?

I think I've already been specific enough..... we win the division in 2010, or Kubiak is unemployed.

So you're saying McNair is a profit mongering hands on owner? Not that he would be any different than about 27 other owners.

I thought as has been mentioned on this MB, McNair was a hands off owner who gives Smithiak anything they need. Minus players with character issues.

Which kind of owner do you think McNair is? You know my answer on that one.

This whole mess ultimately falls at the feet of McNair.

thunderkyss
02-14-2010, 11:35 AM
So you're saying McNair is a profit mongering hands on owner? Not that he would be any different than about 27 other owners.

I thought as has been mentioned on this MB, McNair was a hands off owner who gives Smithiak anything they need. Minus players with character issues.

Which kind of owner do you think McNair is? You know my answer on that one.

This whole mess ultimately falls at the feet of McNair.

I don't think McNair is a profit mongerer any more than you are. I wouldn't call him hands on either. Setting guidelines by which he wants his business to run isn't the same as hands on.

I don't have an issue with his "character" requirements either. I actually like that about him. I think Kubiak & Smith both completely agree with McNair on the character thing.... so I don't think it is solely on McNair regarding the guys we will/will not bring in. Again, I'm fine with that.

In 2002, I don't think McNair understood much about this game. He let the people he surrounded himself with lead the decisions he made for the franchise. I think those people had no backbone, and told the man what he wanted to hear, and not what he needed to hear.

I blame Capers more than McNair for not being able to persuade McNair into allowing him to make the right decisions regarding David Carr. As a head coach, I feel it was his responsibility. Casserly also had some responsibility there.

McNair didn't know much about football then. I believe Kubiak has done a much better job teaching McNair about this business than Capers/Casserly ever did.

I think McNair has given Kubiak & Smith the freedom to do what they need to do, & I don't think money is an object.

I'd like to know which free agents you think we missed on because of money. I know of some that eventually took a bigger pay-day to go to another team. I don't think that was because we low balled them, I think those players never had any intention of coming to Houston. They were just using us to get the bidding up.

thunderkyss
02-14-2010, 11:52 AM
& I don't think this is a "mess" that we are in. I think we are exactly where we want to be.


Forget about the record, that will eventually take care of itself.

If you want Kubiak to make the jumps, and "big" improvements you've seen in Miami, Atlanta, Baltimore, New Orleans... it's coming.

Talent and experience wise, we are where those teams were when they got their new coaches.

I think we were there in 2008, & like all of you, I believe 2009 was our year. Things just didn't go our way. We are playing good football. We are very talented. We are young. Unlike the Titans & the Jags, we will challenge Indy for the AFC South consistently for years.

The Pencil Neck
02-14-2010, 02:24 PM
Personally, I don't think we need to win the division or even make the playoffs to keep Kubiak around for another year after next season.

If we get 10+ wins, Kubiak stays. If we go 11-5 and miss the playoffs the way the Patriots did a couple of years ago, Kubiak should be fine.

If we get 8-9 wins but we're fighting for a playoff birth the last week of the season, Kubiak should stay.

If we get 8 wins but we're out of the playoffs with more than a week to go, Kubiak goes.

To me, it's about being in the hunt. Until this year, we were never in the hunt late December/early January. So for me, this year was a big step forward.

GuerillaBlack
02-14-2010, 03:56 PM
Personally, I don't think we need to win the division or even make the playoffs to keep Kubiak around for another year after next season.

If we get 10+ wins, Kubiak stays. If we go 11-5 and miss the playoffs the way the Patriots did a couple of years ago, Kubiak should be fine.

If we get 8-9 wins but we're fighting for a playoff birth the last week of the season, Kubiak should stay.

If we get 8 wins but we're out of the playoffs with more than a week to go, Kubiak goes.

To me, it's about being in the hunt. Until this year, we were never in the hunt late December/early January. So for me, this year was a big step forward.

If we only have 8 wins going into Week 17, Kubiak goes. 9? Depends on if we win that last one or not.

steelbtexan
02-14-2010, 04:04 PM
TK

just so you know I am a profit mongerer.

LOL

steelbtexan
02-14-2010, 04:15 PM
Personally, I don't think we need to win the division or even make the playoffs to keep Kubiak around for another year after next season.

If we get 10+ wins, Kubiak stays. If we go 11-5 and miss the playoffs the way the Patriots did a couple of years ago, Kubiak should be fine.

If we get 8-9 wins but we're fighting for a playoff birth the last week of the season, Kubiak should stay.

If we get 8 wins but we're out of the playoffs with more than a week to go, Kubiak goes.

To me, it's about being in the hunt. Until this year, we were never in the hunt late December/early January. So for me, this year was a big step forward.

Let me understand this correctly

If the Texans finish 9-7 again next year and are in the hunt for a playoff spot make them or not. You are good with 9-7 and Kubes coming back for another year.

While I respect your opinion my expectations are much higher than that.

At 8-8,8-8, 9-7,9-7 then 10-6,10-6,11-5,11-5 you get my point, I should have my kid put through college and grandchildren on the way before the Texans are a SB contender.

If its going to be that way the Texans will be into me for about $100,000 by the time they have a team that is worthy of this teams fan base.

thunderkyss
02-14-2010, 04:23 PM
If its going to be that way the Texans will be into me for about $100,000 by the time they have a team that is worthy of this teams fan base.

I don't know about that. They can be 9-7, & still be SB contenders... they'll have to make the play-offs of course, but it could happen.

& for the record, I don't think your standards are any higher than ThePencilNeck's, any other fan, or Bob McNair himself.

We're all upset we didn't make the play-offs.

The Pencil Neck
02-14-2010, 07:36 PM
Let me understand this correctly

If the Texans finish 9-7 again next year and are in the hunt for a playoff spot make them or not. You are good with 9-7 and Kubes coming back for another year.

While I respect your opinion my expectations are much higher than that.

At 8-8,8-8, 9-7,9-7 then 10-6,10-6,11-5,11-5 you get my point, I should have my kid put through college and grandchildren on the way before the Texans are a SB contender.

If its going to be that way the Texans will be into me for about $100,000 by the time they have a team that is worthy of this teams fan base.

You can expect whatever you want. But you don't have to win 10+ games to win the Super Bowl. And you can have 10+ wins and not get into the playoffs.

No team goes to the Super Bowl every year. Teams like the Patriots and Colts, who win consistently for an extended period of time, are rare. And they weren't always this way and they're not going to always be that way. We all hope that this team is becoming that sort of team. But that doesn't mean that finishing at 9-7 some years isn't getting there.

Over the past few years, the Chargers and the Steelers have been good teams. And they've still missed the playoffs a few times. And they've still finished with a less than 10 win season at times.

We're getting there. And for me, having coaching and front office stability is the best way to get there. IF the team falls apart, that's when Kubiak should be fired. I think that Kubiak could be fired even if the team doesn't totally fall apart but I don't think he should be.

We've been through all of this before. The bottom line is that I think that Kubiak is a good enough coach to win a Super Bowl. And you don't. I think that Kubiak is building something good and that he hasn't hit a plateau at all. And you don't. I think that in the NFL there are vagaries and sometimes even good teams don't win as much as they should and that Kubiak should have some leeway because of that. And you don't.

We're not going to change each other's minds on that.

You think I'm not thinking this through because Kubiak hasn't gotten us to the promised land and therefore can't get it done, that we need to get someone who can. And I think you're not thinking this through because I think that changing coaches and winning a SB don't go hand in hand and for many coaches (like Dungy and Cowher and Coughlin), they just need the time and I think Kubiak is one of those guys.

Dread-Head
02-16-2010, 11:49 AM
I don't think our schedule next year is as bad as some people make out. West (Chargers, Broncos, Raiders, and Chiefs.)

The Cowboys, [are] beatable.


If they blow the rest of the SEASON...they better play like someone has their mothers in a BASEMENT in that game. You don't let the Cowboys show you up at home...PERIOD.

HJam72
02-16-2010, 01:14 PM
Meh....we could slaughter the Cowboys and most Cowboys fans would be unimpressed when and if we finished with a slightly less overall performance for the year. They know our record every year and they are watching to see if we make the playoffs. Heck, most of them place the Texans as their 2nd favorite team ('least in terms of who they WANT to win games).

'Sides dat, they are a talented team and losing at home to them wouldn't be much worse than losing at home to hardly anybody else. Lose to the girls and I'll forgive you as soon as you WIN A FREAKING DIVISIONAL GAME!

The Pencil Neck
02-16-2010, 02:50 PM
I'll forgive you as soon as you WIN A FREAKING DIVISIONAL GAME!

Preferably more than one.

Norg
02-16-2010, 06:35 PM
THE NFC east is decling IMO the NY giants and Redskins allready showed this teams are just not afriad of them anymore

How much longer can the the eagles go.... 1 and done in the PLayoffs last year Westbrook and Mcnabbs time there is growing dimm

and all we got to do is handle Dalls at our house on MNF or Sunday night


and the chargers all the experts have been saying there time for wining a championship is growing short

bckey
02-17-2010, 07:15 AM
Baby steps don't cut it in todays NFL. This slow methocical building process some Houston fans are so happy with doesn't cut it any more. Free agency has players changing teams more than ever before in the NFL. Careers are cut short due to injury probably more now because players are bigger and faster. Rookies don't sit the bench for a few years and learn the game to much any more. In todays NFL most rookies (1st 3 rounds or so) are expected to contribute immediately.

Alot of fans love to bring up coaches that have been allowed to stay on for years before winning. Again that isn't the formula for winning in todays NFL. If a coach is taking years to win today it means they either are not a good head coach, can't evaluate talent, don't put the best talent on the field always, force players into their system instead of adjusting the system to their players and/or make bad decisions during the game.

You start to run into trouble keeping your good players if you build methodically slow also. A team like the Texans have alot of stat stars on offense that you have to pay some high coin to keep them. Good players on defense too. Sooner or later you have to let some walk because you can't pay everyone top dollar and stay under the salary cap. Winning when you have the most good players is crucial because the next year could be with some different players in key positions that you couldn't afford to pay.

Winners set their goals high. They don't pat theirself on the back for mediocre improvements and stats.

The Pencil Neck
02-17-2010, 03:36 PM
Baby steps don't cut it in todays NFL. This slow methocical building process some Houston fans are so happy with doesn't cut it any more. Free agency has players changing teams more than ever before in the NFL. Careers are cut short due to injury probably more now because players are bigger and faster. Rookies don't sit the bench for a few years and learn the game to much any more. In todays NFL most rookies (1st 3 rounds or so) are expected to contribute immediately.

Alot of fans love to bring up coaches that have been allowed to stay on for years before winning. Again that isn't the formula for winning in todays NFL. If a coach is taking years to win today it means they either are not a good head coach, can't evaluate talent, don't put the best talent on the field always, force players into their system instead of adjusting the system to their players and/or make bad decisions during the game.

You start to run into trouble keeping your good players if you build methodically slow also. A team like the Texans have alot of stat stars on offense that you have to pay some high coin to keep them. Good players on defense too. Sooner or later you have to let some walk because you can't pay everyone top dollar and stay under the salary cap. Winning when you have the most good players is crucial because the next year could be with some different players in key positions that you couldn't afford to pay.

Winners set their goals high. They don't pat theirself on the back for mediocre improvements and stats.

OTOH, most teams that follow the "go big or go home" philosophy go home. Some of them might have a year of moderate success but some don't even get that.

steelbtexan
02-17-2010, 04:07 PM
You can expect whatever you want. But you don't have to win 10+ games to win the Super Bowl. And you can have 10+ wins and not get into the playoffs.

No team goes to the Super Bowl every year. Teams like the Patriots and Colts, who win consistently for an extended period of time, are rare. And they weren't always this way and they're not going to always be that way. We all hope that this team is becoming that sort of team. But that doesn't mean that finishing at 9-7 some years isn't getting there.

Over the past few years, the Chargers and the Steelers have been good teams. And they've still missed the playoffs a few times. And they've still finished with a less than 10 win season at times.

We're getting there. And for me, having coaching and front office stability is the best way to get there. IF the team falls apart, that's when Kubiak should be fired. I think that Kubiak could be fired even if the team doesn't totally fall apart but I don't think he should be.

We've been through all of this before. The bottom line is that I think that Kubiak is a good enough coach to win a Super Bowl. And you don't. I think that Kubiak is building something good and that he hasn't hit a plateau at all. And you don't. I think that in the NFL there are vagaries and sometimes even good teams don't win as much as they should and that Kubiak should have some leeway because of that. And you don't.

We're not going to change each other's minds on that.

You think I'm not thinking this through because Kubiak hasn't gotten us to the promised land and therefore can't get it done, that we need to get someone who can. And I think you're not thinking this through because I think that changing coaches and winning a SB don't go hand in hand and for many coaches (like Dungy and Cowher and Coughlin), they just need the time and I think Kubiak is one of those guys.

You're right about not changing each others minds. You are SPOT ON about where we disagree.

All of the teams and coaches that you have mentioned have atleast made the playoffs. I'm not talking about the SB I'm talking playoffs.

I think that continuity = mediocrity with this regime. You dont believe this to be true.

McNair and you are in agreement but as a fan is it asking to much to expect a 10-6 season. For me it's not. For McNair and you it's O.K. to finish 8-8,9-7 as long as the $ is flowing in and there is some sort of preceived improvement. Not record wise but some sort of improvement that I haven't cant figure out at this point.

I hope I'm wrong about all of this and the Texans can atleast make the playoffs for the 1st time in franchise history. I'm not even dreaming about the SB.

bckey
02-17-2010, 09:29 PM
OTOH, most teams that follow the "go big or go home" philosophy go home. Some of them might have a year of moderate success but some don't even get that.

I'm not saying go big or go home. I'm saying a relatively good football mind can fill holes via the draft and free agency and build a winner in 4 years or less nowadays. No excuses. Don't cry about what you inherited or whine about injuries. Plain old football coaching that just gets it done.

Houston is one of the easiest fan bases in the country to please. Yeah they may ***** a little but in the end but they will pay for whatever is shoved down their throats because they have never expected much. They have hoped for much but never expected it. Every year excuses are a dime a dozen after the Texans blow another season. Bush did more to get that one extra win this year than Kubiak. Bush did more with less than Kubiak did with more. Stats don't win games. Making plays when you absolutely have to does and making the right decision does also.

The Pencil Neck
02-18-2010, 03:15 AM
McNair and you are in agreement but as a fan is it asking to much to expect a 10-6 season. For me it's not. For McNair and you it's O.K. to finish 8-8,9-7 as long as the $ is flowing in and there is some sort of preceived improvement. Not record wise but some sort of improvement that I haven't cant figure out at this point.


Yes.

It is too much to expect a 10-6 season. It ignores the fact that a lot of really good teams don't reach 10-6 in any given season. That doesn't mean there not good teams. The Steelers didn't reach 10-6 this year. The Jets didn't reach 10-6 this year. The Eagles are a great example. They're a really good and fairly consistent team but the past 5 years, they've only finished with over 9 wins twice. Our team is a really good team and we didn't make 10-6 this season. Winning 9 games is a good thing. Winning more than you lose is a good thing.

Teams that consistently win 10 or more games a year for more than a couple of years at a time are pretty rare. The Colts are the only team in the league to win 10+ games every year for the past 8 years. Over the past 4 years, only the Colts, Patriots, and Chargers have done it.

We'd all love to be in that boat. Over the past 4 years, 10 teams have failed to reach 10 wins and 8 teams have only made it one time. Players should never expect to lose. They should be pissed off over losing even 1 game. But FANS should be more realistic. We all want to win 19 games per year but I think we should understand that winning isn't a given even with good coaches and good players.

This has nothing to do with money. You're the one who keeps bringing up money because apparently it's important to you that McNair is making money off this team and apparently you'd prefer that not be the case or something. What's the deal with that?

If you can't see improvement with this team, then you're not looking. Our QB puts up the 6th most prolific season in QB history and you don't see improvement. Our offense goes from 17th to 10th in scoring even with unexpected problems in the running game, and you can't see improvement. Our defense goes from being ranked in the mid to high 20's and low 30's to being in the teens, and you don't see improvement. Our win total goes from 8 to 9, and you can't see improvement. We go from being out of the playoff race by the first week of December to being knocked out of the playoff race on the last day of the season, and you can't see improvement.

You remind me of the guy that's driving on the freeway and is constantly changing lanes because his lane never seems to be moving fast enough for him. Sometimes when you change lanes, you get into a faster lane and you make progress but sometimes when you change lanes, you move into a lane that stops and the lane you used to be in starts moving.

The Pencil Neck
02-18-2010, 03:22 AM
I'm not saying go big or go home. I'm saying a relatively good football mind can fill holes via the draft and free agency and build a winner in 4 years or less nowadays. No excuses. Don't cry about what you inherited or whine about injuries. Plain old football coaching that just gets it done.

Houston is one of the easiest fan bases in the country to please. Yeah they may ***** a little but in the end but they will pay for whatever is shoved down their throats because they have never expected much. They have hoped for much but never expected it. Every year excuses are a dime a dozen after the Texans blow another season. Bush did more to get that one extra win this year than Kubiak. Bush did more with less than Kubiak did with more. Stats don't win games. Making plays when you absolutely have to does and making the right decision does also.

And I think you're wrong.

If a relatively good football mind could build a winner in 4 years, there would be a lot more parity in the league. A lot more teams would have won a lot more games. Everyone would be at 8-8 if it were that easy. Teams like the Dolphins and Falcons wouldn't have just one good year before falling back to the pack.

A lot of variables go into building a winning football team that consistently wins over a long period of time. And it's very easy to screw things up.