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Texecutioner
02-10-2010, 01:51 AM
Hello? What are you responding to? Nobody is arguing this point. Once again, the point I was making is that Kris Brown did not adversely affect our W/L record after the point when cutting him would've been a consideration.

I'm sure the heck not defending Kris Brown!

I thought that you were defending him or Kubes for not looking to make a change. If I misunderstood you then I apologize. Again, I think most people would have been less critical of Kubes as far as Kris Brown went if he had just brought in another kicker and let him compete against Brown for the rest of the season and even if Brown stayed the starter, had he messed up some more (Which he did) than we could have tried out the other guy. That never happened though and we just stuck with the guy that was awful. Love Kris Brown though for his history here. I'll always like the guy for all of the other years. But his tenure here needs to be over and should have been in mid season.

DexmanC
02-10-2010, 03:06 AM
Hello? What are you responding to? Nobody is arguing this point. Once again, the point I was making is that Kris Brown did not adversely affect our W/L record after the point when cutting him would've been a consideration.

I'm sure the heck not defending Kris Brown!

Nice twist of logic, Dale. Should this team use the same "twist" to re-sign
Chris Brown? Hell. His shitty performance didn't "negatively effect the last
four wins of the season." Frank Okam should stay on the roster. His
benchwarming "didn't negatively effect the last four wins of the season."

Why didn't the Saints allow Jason David to win a Superbowl with them?
Just because he sucks doesn't merit him getting released by that team,
right? Please quit twisting logic like this. It's making me laugh too hard.

GuerillaBlack
02-10-2010, 08:39 AM
You said we'd have won at least one of those 4 games, if we'd only fired the Browns. It was a ridiculous statement. First of all, why on earth would we have fired Kris Brown before the Tennessee game? He missed one big kick the week before against Indy but was excellent for us the past 2 1/2 seasons. If we cut him after the Tennessee game, I'm not sure how that helps us since he didn't miss a kick vs. Indy or vs. Jacksonville. Perhaps you wanted him replaced with a magic kicker? that could score more points per FG than Kris Brown could, who went 3 for 3 over those two games.

Regardless of all that, how ridiculous do you have to be to think that simply cutting players can make your position stronger in the middle of the season?
Too bad the Redskins didn't cut Jason Campbell in October. Imagine how much better they would've been at QB. Or, perhaps Jacksonville should've cut their starting DEs in order to improve their pass rush. Maybe Baltimore could've cut Derek Mason in order to improve their passing game?

This is a lost cause.

You be happy with mediocrity. It isn't hard to replace a kicker and just freaking sit the other Brown. You act like it would have been impossible.

HoustonFrog
02-10-2010, 08:57 AM
That didn't happen in New Orleans. Hartley was on the roster before the season started.

That's not the point, though. He was arguing that we'd have won at least one of those 4 games if Brown was cut. But, there isn't one coach in the NFL that would've cut Kris Brown before the Tennessee game. Kris Brown never missed another kick in any Texan loss after the Monday night game versus Tennessee.

You need to stop this. What you are saying makes zero sense. ZERO. You're stating that a kicker can miss 2-3 kicks a game and as long as the Texans win it doesn't matter. That IS your argument with that last sentence. He single handedly almost blew the playoff hopes and winning season the last game. That puts pressure on the team to make up for those gaffs during the game. A team shouldn't have to overcome their kicker. How hard is that?You can spin that sentence to say it isn't sticking up for Brown and that you were just saying it didn't make a difference but you are advocating not cutting him because what you see in hindsight. Rich

infantrycak
02-10-2010, 09:38 AM
Dale, you and I have discussed this over and over. Replacing a kicker late in the season isn't really all that hard. Ask that somewhat successful team in New Orleans.

Kickers are a dime a damn dozen.

That's true and they could have replaced him. But as dale has pointed out it wouldn't have made any difference. The time to replace him was after the TN game when he had back to back outings that effected the outcome of the game. But then what happened? He made every kick in the next two games (both losses) and then missed five over the last four games (all wins anyway). Sometimes things that are wrong just don't happen. For example in the 1st Indy game I thought the unnecessary roughness call on Eugene Wilson was crap but a few plays later Pollard got an INT so it probably didn't effect the outcome of the game.

I don't think it's completely all about the fact that we didn't "start" a new kicker over Brown, but it's more about the fact that we never once even looked for another kicker or tried out any new legs.

We just don't know that. Fans look at the result and say they did nothing. Could be. Could be they contacted other kickers and even tried some out and were unimpressed.

DexmanC
02-10-2010, 11:10 AM
Could be they contacted other kickers and even tried some out and were unimpressed.

Such an instance of tryouts would have been reported. The league
is just too damn wide open to have "unreported tryouts." Just doesn't
happen.

dalemurphy
02-10-2010, 11:24 AM
You need to stop this. What you are saying makes zero sense. ZERO. You're stating that a kicker can miss 2-3 kicks a game and as long as the Texans win it doesn't matter. That IS your argument with that last sentence. He single handedly almost blew the playoff hopes and winning season the last game. That puts pressure on the team to make up for those gaffs during the game. A team shouldn't have to overcome their kicker. How hard is that?You can spin that sentence to say it isn't sticking up for Brown and that you were just saying it didn't make a difference but you are advocating not cutting him because what you see in hindsight. Rich

Wow! For about the 10th time, that is not what we are talking about!

I'm saying that the decision not to cut Kris Brown did not cost the Texans any games. Of course, it could've. But, it didn't. I'm not engaging in the argument as to whether he should've or shouldn't have been replaced. I'm only resonding to Guerilla's comment that cutting Kris Brown would've gotten this team into the playoffs. To that stament: "NO, it would not have!"

The Pencil Neck
02-10-2010, 11:30 AM
Such an instance of tryouts would have been reported. The league
is just too damn wide open to have "unreported tryouts." Just doesn't
happen.

How would you know? Unless it was reported.

We're frequently finding guys added to the roster whose workouts weren't reported.

I'm not saying we did work out other kickers. We probably didn't. But don't assume that the lack of a report is a negative report.

Texan_Bill
02-10-2010, 11:54 AM
Yeah, but we were ahead on both Indy games. Bad coaching is what lost us those games...not losing OD. I mean, he would have definitely helped, but we were in positions to win regardless.



Ever heard of signing a new kicker?

Really?? How about having your pro-bowl TE as an option in the red zone?

In less than 8 games OD was on pace to have 1000+ yards recieving and 10+ TD's. Blame a kicker all you want, but it doesn't take away from the fact that you lost a major component of the offense.

HOU-TEX
02-10-2010, 12:12 PM
Really?? How about having your pro-bowl TE as an option in the red zone?

In less than 8 games OD was on pace to have 1000+ yards recieving and 10+ TD's. Blame a kicker all you want, but it doesn't take away from the fact that you lost a major component of the offense.

Yup, I still don't know why they never utilized Casey more in the passing game. Maybe a trust issue? I dunno

infantrycak
02-10-2010, 12:21 PM
Such an instance of tryouts would have been reported. The league
is just too damn wide open to have "unreported tryouts." Just doesn't
happen.

As Pencil pointed out teams sign players all the time with no prior report of a tryout. It does just happen, particularly with a team that does not like the reporters for the only paper in town very much.

HOU-TEX
02-10-2010, 12:25 PM
As Pencil pointed out teams sign players all the time with no prior report of a tryout. It does just happen, particularly with a team that does not like the reporters for the only paper in town very much.

Kinda like the firing of Ray Wright that not a sole knew about.

Second Honeymoon
02-10-2010, 12:32 PM
Really?? How about having your pro-bowl TE as an option in the red zone?

In less than 8 games OD was on pace to have 1000+ yards recieving and 10+ TD's. Blame a kicker all you want, but it doesn't take away from the fact that you lost a major component of the offense.

injuries happen. we actually have been pretty fortunate on the injury front the last two years.

Brown was horrible last year and seemed to get worse as the year went on. What is the problem with bringing in competition? oh thats right, were a niiiiiice organization. We don't want to hurt players or coaches feelings by actually having them compete/earn their spot on the team. God forbid and if you think there shoudl be accountability and competition, you are a hater and a negative nancy. Shame on you.

After all, that carebear philosophy has worked so well for us in the past....

cmon, TB. how can you defend KB's horrible performances last year by speaking about OD's injury? OD was having a Pro-Bowl, scratch that, an All-Pro year before the injury. Dude was nails and yes, our team's performance in critical offensive situations suffered after he was put on IR, but that can't be used as an excuse for anything whether its the team's lackluster performance in the big games or Kris Brown's lackluster performance in clutch situations.

I have been a fan of KB for a long time, but he has lost something and that something is confidence. once you lose it, its tough to get it back for a kicker. Normally it takes a change of venue. Heck, its already happened once with Kris Brown when the Steelers essentially let him go (left unprotected in expansion draft) after he started getting the 'yips' for them. He was costing them games and what do the Steelers do. They get rid of him because they put winning above carebear BS like loyalty or hurting some guy's feelings.

The Steelers are about winning, pure and simple, and until our organization develops that mindset we will continue to be a losing franchise who holds parades and gives extensions to barely .500 coaches like Kubiak and rewards players like Carr, Greenwood, Weaver, both Browns, and many other players that basically suck. Kris Brown just recently displayed his suckitude, but its suckitude nonetheless.

GuerillaBlack
02-10-2010, 01:32 PM
Really?? How about having your pro-bowl TE as an option in the red zone?

In less than 8 games OD was on pace to have 1000+ yards recieving and 10+ TD's. Blame a kicker all you want, but it doesn't take away from the fact that you lost a major component of the offense.

I agree, but they were in positions to win regardless. They couldn't take care of business.

Texan_Bill
02-10-2010, 01:42 PM
I agree, but they were in positions to win regardless. They couldn't take care of business.

And I hear what you're saying.

Hardcore Texan
02-10-2010, 04:55 PM
So can this thread like die and stuff.....:voodoo:

Texan_Bill
02-10-2010, 05:07 PM
injuries happen. we actually have been pretty fortunate on the injury front the last two years.


I've acknowledged that ad nauseum.

It doesn't change the fact that some major production was lost and that Dreessen didn't step up the way I thought he would.

Texan_Bill
02-10-2010, 05:07 PM
So can this thread like die and stuff.....:voodoo:

I'l help: :voodoo: :voodoo: :voodoo: :voodoo: :voodoo:

infantrycak
02-10-2010, 07:14 PM
Motion sustained.