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Mailman
02-01-2010, 08:44 PM
Bob McNair is ready to do what many have predicted--extend Gary Kubiak.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/6846344.html

Continuity is a good thing with the talent foundation the team has. Me likey.

J_R
02-01-2010, 08:49 PM
I said it on the other board(Mailman saw it ;))

Texans owner Bob McNair is working on a multiyear contract extension for coach Gary Kubiak that could be completed as early as next week.

Kubiak has one year left on the five-year, $10-million contract he signed to become the Texans coach in 2006. Kubiak's new deal is expected to extend through the 2013 season and perhaps longer, according to McNair.

“We've been working on our assistant coaches, and we don't have all of them signed, but I think we've pretty much got them resolved, and everybody will be signed through 2012,” McNair said Monday. “Now we're in the process of working on Gary's extension, and I think probably by next week, we'll have his finalized.

“His will run at least one year longer than (2012), maybe more.”
Kubiak and general manager Rick Smith, who joined the Texans in 2006 and signed a four-year extension in 2008, have put together a team that's coming off its best season. The Texans won their last four games and finished 9-7. They missed making the playoffs for the first time on the last day of the season.

“I think Gary's done a good job,” McNair said. “I look at our results, and I look at what some other coaches have done, and I evaluated his performance against others. We have a great foundation in place.”

McNair wasn't going to let Kubiak work under a one-year contract.

“I think continuity's extremely important in building a strong team,” he said.
“It can impact free agency.

“It's important when you hire (assistant) coaches. Our new coaches (offensive coordinator Rick Dennison and quarterbacks coach Greg Knapp), who are outstanding, were getting contracts beyond Gary's, and I told him to let them know it wasn't an issue.

“I think we're on the right path. I think we have to keep building on the foundation we have.”

The Texans are going to hire a new strength and rehabilitation coach. Ray Wright, who was elevated last year when Dan Riley was fired, also was fired after the season.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/6846344.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed:+houstonchronicle/topheadlines+(chron.com+-+Top+Stories)&utm_content=Twitter


Time to put all that coaching talk aside. At the same time, please hear me out. I understand not wanting your coach to work under basically a 1 year deal where he is a lame duck, but on the other side, what has warranted an extension? 1 winning season? Maybe a 2nd this upcoming year? Ahh it is what it is.

bckey
02-01-2010, 08:56 PM
Kubiak got the extension but he will still be fired next season if he doesn't improve and get this team in the playoffs. And you can bet the soap will show up on these boards quick if the Texans get off to a crappy start. No excuses next year and if the Texans make the playoffs next year with the brutal schedule they have then Kubiak will deserve to stick around. The extension was merely to keep potential free agents from getting scared off and give the coaching staff some confidence going into next season.

m5kwatts
02-01-2010, 08:57 PM
I don't think this means he has as much job security as an extension may imply. Believe me, if the team went 5-11 next year he'd be fired and we'd be paying 2 head coaches for years. This, to me, is more for what McNair said, posturing in free agency and giving assistants security. We couldn't have gotten Dennison if Kubiak's situation wasn't addressed. We wouldn't be able to sign free agents to multi-year deals in free agency if they kept asking "will the HC be here in the future?"

Yes Kubiak is being given a vote of confidence but its not a blind endorsement of his career as an HC. Really, no HC in this league has job security. Everyone is on a one year deal.

bckey
02-01-2010, 09:01 PM
That is the first I had heard about Ray Wright getting fired. I guess they didn't care for him too much to fire him after 1 year.

J_R
02-01-2010, 09:03 PM
Good points Bckey and M5K. I'll admit, I jumped since I saw extension, and was thinking, what?! But both valid points you both brought up

Thorn
02-01-2010, 09:03 PM
Damn. Now there's one less thing to argue about. :spin:

gary
02-01-2010, 09:15 PM
The Kubiaks and their coach know he only has one more year left to prove other wise.

Jackie Chiles
02-01-2010, 09:51 PM
That is the first I had heard about Ray Wright getting fired. I guess they didn't care for him too much to fire him after 1 year.

Yeah this is the first I have heard about that. Wonder if they have someone in mind. I can't wait for all the feel good fluff pieces on whoever it is.:cool: Boy, our players sure sounded like they loved Ray's new regimen. Third times a charm.

Rex Ryan handing a game ball to their S&C coach after week one couldn't have helped his chances.

edo783
02-01-2010, 09:55 PM
That is the first I had heard about Ray Wright getting fired. I guess they didn't care for him too much to fire him after 1 year.

Yeah, it's kind of strange. I suspect that he may have mis-handled something, because I didn't see anything that said "Fire that guy". In fact, they seemed to have better health overall than in most of the previous years.

dalemurphy
02-01-2010, 10:02 PM
HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE HEH.

"Today, I feel that I am the luckiest man on the face of the earth"

"Except for my kid being born, this is the greatest day in the history of my life... and I just want to say one thing to my wife, who's at home. Yo Adrian, I did it! I did it!"

Sorry. I couldn't come up with anything original to express the shear joy I'm feeling right now, so I thought I'd leave it to Lou Gehrig and Rocky Balboa.

HoustonFrog
02-01-2010, 10:32 PM
Really, this isn't a surprise and still doesn't take the pressure off this next year. If he loses, he is gone and they eat a couple of years. If he wins, they have him locked in.

Hervoyel
02-01-2010, 10:51 PM
Damn. Now there's one less thing to argue about. :spin:

I think we've clearly shown here on Texans Talk that we can argue over nothing at all if the situation calls for it.

We should be good until something else comes up.

ArlingtonTexan
02-01-2010, 11:09 PM
If Kubes is getting an extension until 2013, he probably has to go Capers in order to get the axe next year. Unlike players coaches money is normally guaranteed in the NFL. If I saw a one or two year thing, then, I would accept that Kubiak is playoffs or bust, but I am not buying that McNair is going to just pay good ole Gary four years of pay for 1 year of work w/o it being obvious that he made a huge mistake. (See extending Carr).

beerlover
02-01-2010, 11:15 PM
get over it pink soap lovers its done, time to move on :wesmantexanfan:

houstonspartan
02-01-2010, 11:57 PM
Holy shit.

My first season ticket payment is due in a few weeks. McNair wants more of my cash for this mediocre coach?

*******k him. If they want to look at a successful coach in four years, give Sean Payton a call.

houstonspartan
02-01-2010, 11:59 PM
HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE HEH.

"Today, I feel that I am the luckiest man on the face of the earth"

"Except for my kid being born, this is the greatest day in the history of my life... and I just want to say one thing to my wife, who's at home. Yo Adrian, I did it! I did it!"

Sorry. I couldn't come up with anything original to express the shear joy I'm feeling right now, so I thought I'd leave it to Lou Gehrig and Rocky Balboa.

Don't get too smug now. At the end of the day, your boy Kubiak will likely lead his team to 8-8 next year.

Extension or not, a shitty coach is a shitty coach.

Texan4Ever
02-02-2010, 12:34 AM
Is there anyway we can keep him for next season, see how he does THEN extend him? I have a bad feeling that once he gets his extension he will fall flat on his ass and we might end up 6-10 or something....hope this doesn't happen.


What I think of Kubes = :splits: + :scarygirl: + :pissed:

houstonspartan
02-02-2010, 12:38 AM
Is there anyway we can keep him for next season, see how he does THEN extend him? I have a bad feeling that once he gets his extension he will fall flat on his ass and we might end up 6-10 or something....hope this doesn't happen.


What I think of Kubes = :splits: + :scarygirl: + :pissed:

That's exactly what's going to happen. He's going to get complacent, sit on his butt, ignore the division games, bring us to 7-9, and say "It's all on me."

m5kwatts
02-02-2010, 01:00 AM
Is there anyway we can keep him for next season, see how he does THEN extend him? I have a bad feeling that once he gets his extension he will fall flat on his ass and we might end up 6-10 or something....hope this doesn't happen.


What I think of Kubes = :splits: + :scarygirl: + :pissed:

So what was Kubiak supposed to say to Dennison? Come coach for a year with me in Houston, move your family and risk your coaching reputation on a lame duck year with me? The only way to attract coaches AND keep the ones on your own staff is to offer security. On paper this will provide that security. But then again anything on paper can be changed or ripped up (although you still have to pay the contract).

houstonspartan
02-02-2010, 01:21 AM
So what was Kubiak supposed to say to Dennison? Come coach for a year with me in Houston, move your family and risk your coaching reputation on a lame duck year with me? The only way to attract coaches AND keep the ones on your own staff is to offer security. On paper this will provide that security. But then again anything on paper can be changed or ripped up (although you still have to pay the contract).

Won't he be risking his coaching reputation with Kubiak anyway? You are kidding if you don't think Dennison and Knapp don't realize that they could be canned next year right along with Gary. Everyone in the NFL - everyone - knows that the problem in Houston is the head coach.

It's not like Dennison is suddenly all "Oh, Gary got an extension! I'm set for a long time."

m5kwatts
02-02-2010, 01:33 AM
Won't he be risking his coaching reputation with Kubiak anyway? You are kidding if you don't think Dennison and Knapp don't realize that they could be canned next year right along with Gary. Everyone in the NFL - everyone - knows that the problem in Houston is the head coach.

It's not like Dennison is suddenly all "Oh, Gary got an extension! I'm set for a long time."

I think its more like "Oh, Gary got an extension so it'll be that much more difficult for Bob McNair to fire him" which in the NFL is worth something. I agree they could be canned next year and everyone knows coaching is the problem here, I'm sure Dennison thinks if he can become a part of the solution (improving the running game, improving closing games offensively) it'll better posture him for head coaching gigs, which Kubiak said is something Dennison is thinking about and aspires to.

Texecutioner
02-02-2010, 02:40 AM
So what was Kubiak supposed to say to Dennison? Come coach for a year with me in Houston, move your family and risk your coaching reputation on a lame duck year with me? The only way to attract coaches AND keep the ones on your own staff is to offer security. On paper this will provide that security. But then again anything on paper can be changed or ripped up (although you still have to pay the contract).

I think a lot of this has to do with this. At least I hope so. With Mcnair though, you just never know how complacent this guy could really be. Arlington Texan is right about the fact that with a longer 4 year deal the chances of him being here longer are higher because of the pay off if Gary was axed in one year. That doesn't mean that it couldn't happen, but it just makes the chances of Gary's stay longer possibly if he were to fail again. It might not be a "no excuses" or a "playoff or bust" attitude from Mcnair next season with Gary. If those reasons that you mentioned aren't the main causes for this, then this is unbelievable.

DexmanC
02-02-2010, 06:29 AM
That's exactly what's going to happen. He's going to get complacent, sit on his butt, ignore the division games, bring us to 7-9, and say "It's all on me."

I wonder what beat he's gonna be tapping the podium to this year.

Silver Oak
02-02-2010, 06:34 AM
the "Mediocrity Boyz" are going nuts over this.

Thorn
02-02-2010, 07:09 AM
I think we've clearly shown here on Texans Talk that we can argue over nothing at all if the situation calls for it.

We should be good until something else comes up.

You're wrong.

:ahhaha:

OzzO
02-02-2010, 07:29 AM
Meh. If anything, perhaps this'll help in free agency. Players like the continuity and will go where they play, get paid, and have some stability in who hired them. (Not necessarily in that order)

BigBull17
02-02-2010, 07:48 AM
If Kubes is getting an extension until 2013, he probably has to go Capers in order to get the axe next year. Unlike players coaches money is normally guaranteed in the NFL. If I saw a one or two year thing, then, I would accept that Kubiak is playoffs or bust, but I am not buying that McNair is going to just pay good ole Gary four years of pay for 1 year of work w/o it being obvious that he made a huge mistake. (See extending Carr).

If we don't make the play-off's, Bob will eat the rest of the contract and move on. No way Kubiak stays without a play-off trip.

Thorn
02-02-2010, 07:54 AM
If we don't make the play-off's, Bob will eat the rest of the contract and move on. No way Kubiak stays without a play-off trip.

That's not exactly true. If enough legitimate excuses pile up (injuries to key players, ect.) over the year he'll be here even if he doesn't make the playoffs.

Marcus
02-02-2010, 07:59 AM
Everyone in the NFL - everyone - knows that the problem in Houston is the head coach.

If we don't make the play-off's, Bob will eat the rest of the contract and move on. No way Kubiak stays without a play-off trip.

:dontknowa :gun:

Silver Oak
02-02-2010, 08:00 AM
I know some of these PFT posts are from some posters here...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/02/01/texans-close-to-extension-for-kubiak/

HoustonFrog
02-02-2010, 08:08 AM
Dear Bob McNair,

I'd like to submit my resume for employment with the Houston Texans. I can be a top legal advisor for you...on some days. On other days I might just knock off and play golf or spend 10 out of 11 hours playing Tetris or WGT. But believe me, whenever it is deadline time and I really need to step up, I will. I'll show you how good I am. Then when the next year starts I might have some good things to add regarding how we can avoid some costly situations regarding sponsorships, etc....or I might just let them pass where we will get in trouble. But in the end I promise I'll decide to get it done.

Thank You For Your Time

HF

That's not exactly true. If enough legitimate excuses pile up (injuries to key players, ect.) over the year he'll be here even if he doesn't make the playoffs.

The scary part Thorn is that excuses can pile up no matter what kind of season it is. I was listening to some talk this morning and I just don't get why he couldn't have made it through 2012. I agree with others that even if he tanks, McNair might keep with the program. That is poor management. Especially since one year might be an off year.

Also, why are some people so hell bent on making this a "Pink Soap" vs "Kubes" thing. It is really a legitimate issue that should be discussed because how many years McNair gives Kubiak shows where Bob's head is at, no matter what side you take. Celebrating your side, despite the implications, just seems ridiculous since the team hasn't accomplished anything yet. To me this kind of reeks of Carr in that it doesn't seem well thought out. Bob is just going with someone he likes again.

ArlingtonTexan
02-02-2010, 08:32 AM
If we don't make the play-off's, Bob will eat the rest of the contract and move on. No way Kubiak stays without a play-off trip.

That might be what you want, but an extension to 2013 does not scream playoffs or bust, it says I am happy with the direction of the organization. The assistants are under contract until 2012. Jerry Jones extended Wade Phillips only 2011. That's a situation where perform this year and we will reevaluate, we have an owner who values stabilty and patience.

Kaiser Toro
02-02-2010, 08:34 AM
Although I have never met him, it would be impossible for to say Kubiak is a bad guy. Moreover, he is from Houston and has put together an offense that can move the ball. With the CBA uncertainty, this seems like a logical move to me.

b0ng
02-02-2010, 08:53 AM
Even though I might not agree with it, I'm okay if he's extended.

2slik4u
02-02-2010, 09:07 AM
For those who didnt know, here you go.

http://www.click2houston.com/sports/22406734/detail.html

infantrycak
02-02-2010, 09:09 AM
To me this kind of reeks of Carr in that it doesn't seem well thought out. Bob is just going with someone he likes again.

See thing is not everyone thinks Kubiak is doing a poor job and it appears Bob is one of them. And this isn't like HWWNBN who was getting worse when they extended him.

TheCD
02-02-2010, 09:15 AM
That's exactly what's going to happen. He's going to get complacent, sit on his butt, ignore the division games, bring us to 7-9, and say "It's all on me."

Would you be willing to share that crystal ball with the rest of us?

Not trying to be rude, or even advocate for keeping Kubiak, but we really don't know what's going to happen next year. We do know that about 4 losses can be strongly attributed to 2 players who share the same last name, and that if this is not addressed in some way, Kubiak has some serious 'splaining to do, but where do you justify 7-9? Kubiak has had one losing season. One. Is this team over-achieving? Not a chance. Is that on the coach? Yes. But I am still of the ilk that believes this team is not as good as people believe it is.

To win in football you have to win in the trenches. Guess what...we can't do that. Therefore, we are not as good as most other teams in the league. Once we can dominate at least one side of the line, then I'll start considering us capable of the playoffs. Until then we've got all the glitz and glamour of a nice passing game with none of the nitty-gritty. It's like bringing a kid to a math competition who's amazing at doing multiplication in his head, but can't handle fractions or even addition.

I just don't really see where the talent is in the non-glamorous positions. We've got most of our skill positions set (save DBs), but no real workhorses.

I fail to understand how he's going to get "complacent" and lead us to 7-9. Perhaps if he tries to get flashy in the draft and take even more skill positions, but if he goes hard after getting better line-play on both sides, I see the potential for us to break that threshold. Has Kubiak proved he's a great coach? Not at all. But year 5 is the year that a coach has absolutely no excuses. Let's let them play the game and then we can criticize how he coached in those games.

HoustonFrog
02-02-2010, 09:16 AM
See thing is not everyone thinks Kubiak is doing a poor job and it appears Bob is one of them. And this isn't like HWWNBN who was getting worse when they extended him.

He isn't doing a "poor" job. But as an owner I think you need to assess mistakes from the past and then look at what you can do to avoid that again. I think the simple act of extending him would have done the job. He could have cut a year and gotten the same result. Instead, I fear, if Kubiak has any trouble next year it looks like Bob might chalk it up to 5 years of learning. I'm not being negative about it but if you look at both sides of the fence, the schedule, etc you can still lock him up and then move forward. Even with a lockout you would still have time to talk shop after a good year.

infantrycak
02-02-2010, 09:29 AM
He isn't doing a "poor" job. But as an owner I think you need to assess mistakes from the past and then look at what you can do to avoid that again. I think the simple act of extending him would have done the job. He could have cut a year and gotten the same result. Instead, I fear, if Kubiak has any trouble next year it looks like Bob might chalk it up to 5 years of learning. I'm not being negative about it but if you look at both sides of the fence, the schedule, etc you can still lock him up and then move forward. Even with a lockout you would still have time to talk shop after a good year.

My main point was this isn't a situation of just liking Kubiak as it arguably was with HWWNBN. There really isn't an argument the Texans were not better this year than last so the argument has been over whether they are better enough. HWWNBN was extended after a season in which he had regressed.

The Pencil Neck
02-02-2010, 09:30 AM
Personally, I don't think the extension means much of anything. If we have a bad year, he's gone. If we have a so-so year, he might be gone. If we're in the playoff hunt on the last day of the season, he's coming back.

I think that's the same situation he would have been in even without the extension. Not having the extension didn't seem to make it harder to get assistants. I'm not sure it would have made it that much harder to get FAs. It's not like we've ever gone balls out to get FAs in the past.

Marcus
02-02-2010, 09:35 AM
I fail to understand how he's going to get "complacent" and lead us to 7-9. Perhaps if he tries to get flashy in the draft and take even more skill positions, but if he goes hard after getting better line-play on both sides, I see the potential for us to break that threshold. Has Kubiak proved he's a great coach? Not at all. But year 5 is the year that a coach has absolutely no excuses. Let's let them play the game and then we can criticize how he coached in those games.

Because there is faction that have already made up their minds that Kubiak is a "mediocre" coach who will never take it to the next level, and have now got the red ass that McNair doesn't see it that way, and are now throwing the David Carr thing at him.

Sour grapes. The pink soapers didn't get it their way. Can't wait until they come back later and say "Well, um . . um . . I'll eat crow now".

:rolleyes:

GP
02-02-2010, 09:36 AM
I think we've clearly shown here on Texans Talk that we can argue over nothing at all if the situation calls for it.

We should be good until something else comes up.

I disagree with that.

:)

HoustonFrog
02-02-2010, 09:45 AM
Because there is faction that have already made up their minds that Kubiak is a "mediocre" coach who will never take it to the next level, and have now got the red ass that McNair doesn't see it that way, and are now throwing the David Carr thing at him.

Sour grapes. The pink soapers didn't get it their way. Can't wait until they come back later and say "Well, um . . um . . I'll eat crow now".

:rolleyes:

Again, why take it here? Sounds childish. There are legitimate concerns with a long term contract vs a couple of years. There is no "getting your way here." Getting people's way means the team is winning. Everyone is happy. Plus no one has gotten any way. Everyone knew he was getting an extension. He still can be fired anytime if not performing. It is a matter of how many years. Thus the discussion. Just like McNair I'm not sure some people here learn from the Carr and Sage debates. Two debates where I'll gladly trot out my side on to see who got their way..lol

HoustonFrog
02-02-2010, 09:51 AM
My main point was this isn't a situation of just liking Kubiak as it arguably was with HWWNBN. There really isn't an argument the Texans were not better this year than last so the argument has been over whether they are better enough. HWWNBN was extended after a season in which he had regressed.

Agree. They were better. I just have issue with the length and thought he would be more cautious after DC since a payout occurs if bad things happen.

b0ng
02-02-2010, 09:57 AM
Again, why take it here? Sounds childish. There are legitimate concerns with a long term contract vs a couple of years. There is no "getting your way here." Getting people's way means the team is winning. Everyone is happy. Plus no one has gotten any way. Everyone knew he was getting an extension. He still can be fired anytime if not performing. It is a matter of how many years. Thus the discussion. Just like McNair I'm not sure some people here learn from the Carr and Sage debates. Two debates where I'll gladly trot out my side on to see who got their way..lol

That won't stop a seemingly normal every day person from turning into a sperglord once sitting comfortably behind their screen and keyboard discussing the "latest thing that gets their blood boiling". I've said before that I wasn't in favor of an extension because I'm still rather unsure about him as a coach. I think it's very possible he can succeed but I don't believe anything he's done (record wise) yet can qualify as "Resounding success". Getting new assistants and coordinators did not prove to be a problem without an extension so why do it now when there's nothing beating us in the face to do so?

But I also realize that coaching salaries are a mere pittance in comparison to player salaries so extending a coach and then firing him next year is not that out there like it was with David Carr.

dalemurphy
02-02-2010, 09:58 AM
Again, why take it here? Sounds childish. There are legitimate concerns with a long term contract vs a couple of years. There is no "getting your way here." Getting people's way means the team is winning. Everyone is happy. Plus no one has gotten any way. Everyone knew he was getting an extension. He still can be fired anytime if not performing. It is a matter of how many years. Thus the discussion. Just like McNair I'm not sure some people here learn from the Carr and Sage debates. Two debates where I'll gladly trot out my side on to see who got their way..lol

Well, when Houstonspartan jumps on this thread and begins to predict "another 7-9 season"... even though there hasn't been one of those under Kubiak, it does give the impression that the guy isn't exactly hoping for the team's success. After all, we were 9-7 this season. The off-season hasn't even started yet. Surely a fan can be cautiously optimistic at this point and still voice his trepidation for the coach. But, not him, I guess.

infantrycak
02-02-2010, 10:00 AM
Getting new assistants and coordinators did not prove to be a problem without an extension so why do it now when there's nothing beating us in the face to do so?

We don't know that. For all we know Smith and McNair signed Dennison in part representing they were working on extending Kubiak. Odds are this extension has been in the works for a while.

dalemurphy
02-02-2010, 10:01 AM
Don't get too smug now. At the end of the day, your boy Kubiak will likely lead his team to 8-8 next year.

Extension or not, a shitty coach is a shitty coach.

a shitty fan is a shitty fan, too. Wouldn't you agree with that?

b0ng
02-02-2010, 10:07 AM
We don't know that. For all we know Smith and McNair signed Dennison in part representing they were working on extending Kubiak. Odds are this extension has been in the works for a while.

It may be true and then again it may not. Dennison might feel that there will be no football in 2011 and figures he might as well put himself in more of a spotlight role than what he had in Denver.

I can't just assume that no extension would have been a huge roadblock in getting assistants here just because.

ChampionTexan
02-02-2010, 10:08 AM
We don't know that. For all we know Smith and McNair signed Dennison in part representing they were working on extending Kubiak. Odds are this extension has been in the works for a while.

That's exactly what I was thinking. As TC has already pointed out, McClain's been expecting this since the season ended, and she credited it to some "little birdies" telling him.

I'm thinking if the birdies were willing to share with McLain, there very well may have been a few folks ahead of him in the pecking order of info sharing, including every assistant coach they hired.

Ole Miss Texan
02-02-2010, 10:13 AM
As a fan that thinks Kubiak has turned this team completely around and can be the coach to lead us to the promised land, this makes me even more excited for our future.

Texecutioner
02-02-2010, 12:29 PM
Because there is faction that have already made up their minds that Kubiak is a "mediocre" coach who will never take it to the next level, and have now got the red ass that McNair doesn't see it that way, and are now throwing the David Carr thing at him.

Sour grapes. The pink soapers didn't get it their way. Can't wait until they come back later and say "Well, um . . um . . I'll eat crow now".

:rolleyes:

This is so freaking childish. This "us vs them" mentality is pathetic to say the least especially when we're all from the same fan base. People have their opinions based off of what they see and what they evaluate. It isn't as if you've got some leg to stand on like Kubes has won a SB or something or that Mcnair had some ten years of success with another HC in the NFL in the 90's or something. I've got no problem with people who support Gary Kubiak as fans. That's their right to their opinion and they're obviously rooting for the same team I am regardless of what I may think or anyone else rooting for the Texans. I've got no problem with anyone that doesn't like the way the guy coaches either. They wouldn't be criticizing him if they weren't compassionate fans. And for the people that can admit when they're wrong or that "their opinion" might not have been correct, well good for them. You certainly could learn a thing or two from that.

Mr. White
02-02-2010, 12:48 PM
I'm good with this. If he was gonna stay for another year, he needed to get extended.

There's no decent free agents or assistant coaches that want to come to a team with uncertainty at head coach.

steelbtexan
02-02-2010, 01:02 PM
McNair must think it's alright to be mediocore. That's what this extension says to me.

Why wouldn't McNair feel this way? While his team has been an utter failure on the fieild, the marketing arm of the orginazation has been a sucess beyond his wildest dreams. He's making $ why change a good thing?

McNair says he's doing the extention to help lure FA's. This is great. Now it's time for Uncle Bob to step up to the plate and spend the $ that it takes to get the best FA's in this uncapped year. I'm not talking about the A.Smith type FA. I'm talking about the best FA's Seymour, Peppers type guys.

Hopefully Kubes will continue to improve as a HC. As Texan fans this is all we have left for optmisim.

With this years schedule I can see another 9-7,7-9 season. There will be more excuses and people will say that we were a better team than last year. Which will be true but being better but continiously average isn't good enough.

Looks like there will be 2 more years of medicore football at Reliant.

I hope I'm wrong. I dont get the guys that say people that want Kubes gone aren't getting their way. Every Texan fan wants one thing, THE TEXANS TO BE A WINNER.

Hopefully McNair is right about Kubes. His opinion is the only one that counts.

Marcus
02-02-2010, 01:50 PM
McNair must think it's alright to be mediocore. That's what this extension says to me.

Why wouldn't McNair feel this way? While his team has been an utter failure on the fieild, the marketing arm of the orginazation has been a sucess beyond his wildest dreams. He's making $ why change a good thing?

Do you actually believe that?

Maddict5
02-02-2010, 03:37 PM
a shitty fan is a shitty fan, too. Wouldn't you agree with that?

lol.

anyway its another move im 100% in agreement with after the dennison & knapp hires

Double Barrel
02-02-2010, 03:45 PM
This doesn't surprise me. We've been the milktoast team of the NFL for 8 years, so why would that change now?

For the definition-challenged: milktoast - easily dominated; extremely mild; ineffectual; namby-pamby; wishy-washy

There is nothing in the past four years to really challenge this notion. 7-17 in our division and 8 wins against winning teams in 64 games/4 years. Milktoast.

'eh, it is what it is. I've gone from low expectations to no expectations. But I'll be there rooting for the Texans in 2010. Go team go. :texflag:

gary
02-02-2010, 03:55 PM
This is one problem I have with this a pretty legit one if Gary gets canned in 2011 then Bob has to pay him whatever amount they are paid when that happens. Why not wait this next season out and see how things go? Won't this take away some cash in order to sign key players to long term deals and other free agents?

4Texans
02-02-2010, 03:59 PM
He gets a 3 year deal.......

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/6847569.html

Texans coach Gary Kubiak has agreed to a new three-year contract that begins this year and runs through 2012.

Rather than sign an extension through 2013, including an option year, Kubiak agreed to a deal that allows the last year of his original 5-year, $10-million contract to be torn up, meaning the new contract will kick in as soon as he signs it.

Kubiak wanted his contract to expire after the 2012 season — the same as his assistant coaches.

"I'm real excited about it," Kubiak said. "Bob (McNair) has always been very good to me. I respect him a great deal. I'm glad he's got the confidence in me to finish what we started when we came here. We've got a great opportunity to have something real special."

Kubiak's news coaches have been signing three-year contracts that expire after the 2012 season. His returning coaches got two-year extensions.

"I want to be on the same path as them," he said. "I think that's important. It shows we're all in this together."

SICLICK
02-02-2010, 04:18 PM
Man Eff Kubiak!

ArlingtonTexan
02-02-2010, 04:20 PM
If Kubes is getting an extension until 2013, he probably has to go Capers in order to get the axe next year. Unlike players coaches money is normally guaranteed in the NFL. If I saw a one or two year thing, then, I would accept that Kubiak is playoffs or bust, but I am not buying that McNair is going to just pay good ole Gary four years of pay for 1 year of work w/o it being obvious that he made a huge mistake. (See extending Carr).

He gets a 3 year deal.......

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/6847569.html

Texans coach Gary Kubiak has agreed to a new three-year contract that begins this year and runs through 2012.

Rather than sign an extension through 2013, including an option year, Kubiak agreed to a deal that allows the last year of his original 5-year, $10-million contract to be torn up, meaning the new contract will kick in as soon as he signs it.

Kubiak wanted his contract to expire after the 2012 season the same as his assistant coaches.

"I'm real excited about it," Kubiak said. "Bob (McNair) has always been very good to me. I respect him a great deal. I'm glad he's got the confidence in me to finish what we started when we came here. We've got a great opportunity to have something real special."

Kubiak's news coaches have been signing three-year contracts that expire after the 2012 season. His returning coaches got two-year extensions.

"I want to be on the same path as them," he said. "I think that's important. It shows we're all in this together."

This information places Kubiak closer to the do it in 2010 or your gone than the initial reports that he was going to get an extension until 2013 or longer. A couple of years is not unusual for teams to eat, but the prospect at 3 or 4 years was too much. Much closer to what I expected and quite frankly to my liking.

steelbtexan
02-02-2010, 04:21 PM
Do you actually believe that?

Yes and what has happened since this franchises inception to make that statement seem untrue to you.

Give examples where McNair has re-invsted the $ that he's made off the fan base either on top notch coaches. (1st time GM,HC,OC,DC) or top tier FA. McNair always pays a little above market value for a 2nd tier FA A.Smith) While his franchise keeps going up in value. The Texans are currently the 6th most valuable franchise in the NFL.

If McNair is keeping Kubes so that as he said the team can attract FA's this offseason then fine. The proof will be in the pudding. Or this may just be another PR move with the intention to keep the $ rolling in.

Kaiser Toro
02-02-2010, 04:23 PM
This information places Kubiak closer to the do it in 2010 or your gone than the initial reports that he was going to get an extension until 2013 or longer. A couple of years is not unusual for teams to eat, but the prospect at 3 or 4 years was too much. Much closer to what I expected and quite frankly to my liking.

Yep, no impact on the cap. From a fan standpoint that is all I care about. Coach money is McNair money.

HJam72
02-02-2010, 04:24 PM
Go MCedioKrity!!! :fans:

:includeme: ...and I just want y'all to know it's really ticking me off. :brickwall:

Wolf
02-02-2010, 04:34 PM
Mark Berman of Fox 26 Sports in Houston reported last night that Texans head coach Gary Kubiak will be receiving a contract extension as early as next week.

John McClain of the Houston Chronicle reported the deal will be at least three years, through the 2013 season.

Kubiak is entering the final year of his current contract

The extension was expected and deserved considering where Kubiak has taken the team since his arrival in 2006. The only thing that would surprise me is if the extension is for more than three years.

Progress has been slow, painfully slow it seems, but there's no question progress is being made, But the time to win is now because Kubiak's first draft class including core players like Mario Williams, DeMeco Ryans, Eric Winston and Owen Daniels are entering their 5th season. Andre Johnson is entering his 8th season. Matt Schaub is in his prime.

This business is a series of high stakes bets for NFL owners, and giving Kubiak this extension is a clear sign that McNair thinks he has a winning hand.

Despite their 9-7 record and playoff near miss, one could argue that the Texans underachieved in 2009 by blowing several close games with critical fumbles, missed field goals, getting stuffed at the one yard line as time runs out, or calling bizarre halfback option passes near the goal line.

Fumbles and missed field goals aren't on the coaches. And the next time you hear someone vaguely criticize the Texans play calling, or say 'I was watching on TV and my cocker spaniel was barking out the plays before they were called,' remind them that the Texans had a top five offense - with no running game in 2009,

But Kubiak isn't without his faults.

He did a better job with coaches challenges in 2009 but there are still things in the area of game management/clock management that can be improved.

I've questioned some of his leadership characteristics, although it's clear that the players (and the owner) love him. So that part may just be my imagination,

Most important, he hasn't figured out how to beat his AFC South opponents on a consistent basis.

Least important is where he went to college. And it seems that a group of 'fans' just can't let that go.




http://www.examiner.com/x-778-Houston-Texans-Examiner~y2010m2d2-Reports-Kubiaks-contract-being-extended

Joe Texan
02-02-2010, 04:39 PM
:lol: Eff you pink Soap droppers

Ole Miss Texan
02-02-2010, 04:54 PM
Color me a fan of the pickups of Antonio Smith, Bernard Pollard, Kevin Bentley, Kevin Walter, Vonta Leach, Matt Schaub and yes... even the 6th rd pick we traded for Chris Myers. As much as I wanted a big name free agent, I've always been more of a fan of building up the base of your team before spending top FA $'s. I think our team still has plenty of holes to fill before we're elite, but I think we've got such a great foundation. Now is the time to add that 1 maybe 2 guys to take us to the next level.

With that said, at what cost do you do this (and for who) without running the risk of not being able to re-sign your own top free agents in the future. The Top Tier $ FA's will have huge ramifications on the payroll and cap (if/when its "reinstated"). We're drafting bonafide studs right now. Matt Schaub, Mario Williams, Dunta Robinson, Antonio Smith, Eric Winston, Jacques Reeves, Amobi Okoye, Demeco Ryans, Brian Cushing, Duane Brown and Owen Daniels. All those guys contracts will expire with Kubiak's new extension or before. Andre Johnson is the only one signed through 2014.

I'm totally for getting a key guy through FA that is an elite player at his position. Let's use DT/NT for example. I think it'd do wonders. But we all need to realize if... no when we do that, it will be at the expense of a fan favorite like Cushing (might go after top $'s). We all want guys like him to be on this team forever, but it's highly unlikely. Let's get back to the here and the now though... because NOW is the time for us to make that push. NOW is the time 2010, 2011 and 2012 that we have to be getting through the playoffs and being in the perennial super bowl talks. I also have pretty good faith in Smith and Kubiak to judge which players can make that difference. Unfortunately it really might not be this offseason's FA's.

The Pencil Neck
02-02-2010, 05:02 PM
Come on, guys.

Chill out about the Pink Soap (putting it away or pulling it out) or the McNair Mediocrity oozing through Houston or whatever. This extension doesn't mean that anyone is right or anyone else is wrong.

We all want the same thing. We want to win. A lot.

We know that Kubiak is going to be our coach at the beginning of next season. And that's pretty much all we know. And we knew that before this extension was signed.

If Kubiak flames out at the beginning of the season, he's almost definitely gone. Some are expecting that and some aren't. And we'll see when we see.

What we should be concentrating on now are free agency and the draft. Kubiak and Smith's abilities are really irrelevant at this point. They are what we have. One way or the other.

infantrycak
02-02-2010, 05:02 PM
Yes and what has happened since this franchises inception to make that statement seem untrue to you.

Give examples where McNair has re-invsted the $ that he's made off the fan base either on top notch coaches. (1st time GM,HC,OC,DC) or top tier FA. McNair always pays a little above market value for a 2nd tier FA A.Smith) While his franchise keeps going up in value. The Texans are currently the 6th most valuable franchise in the NFL.

If McNair is keeping Kubes so that as he said the team can attract FA's this offseason then fine. The proof will be in the pudding. Or this may just be another PR move with the intention to keep the $ rolling in.

Casserly and Capers were well regarded and not bargain basement. He paid for Sherman and Alex Gibbs. He has brought in guys at the top of their off-season positions. Wade was listed as the top UFA OT that off-season. Robaire Smith was a top 3 DT that off-season. Walker got a fat contract. He paid a lot of money for a gamble on Schaub. He could have saved himself a bunch of money by not extending Carr. They went after Orlando Pace. Clearly not all of those decisions worked out well for the team but they demonstrated a willingness to spend money. No they haven't gone after the Haynesworth blockbuster guys but that isn't proof he is cheap. It isn't even my money and I am against those deals 95% of the time.

houstonspartan
02-02-2010, 05:09 PM
Yes and what has happened since this franchises inception to make that statement seem untrue to you.

Give examples where McNair has re-invsted the $ that he's made off the fan base either on top notch coaches. (1st time GM,HC,OC,DC) or top tier FA. McNair always pays a little above market value for a 2nd tier FA A.Smith) While his franchise keeps going up in value. The Texans are currently the 6th most valuable franchise in the NFL.

If McNair is keeping Kubes so that as he said the team can attract FA's this offseason then fine. The proof will be in the pudding. Or this may just be another PR move with the intention to keep the $ rolling in.

Steel,

I'm just as angry about this as you are, and am wondering what McNair is thinking.

However, I've never thought of McNair as a cheap owner. I really don't think he is. In fact, I would say he's often been the other way, tossing open the vault so we can pay scrubs.

If Kubiak wanted to fly every single player to Hawaii for three months for training camp, McNair would say yes in three seconds.

But there's the rub, and my frustration with him: He sometimes says yes a bit too much...

TexCanada
02-02-2010, 05:15 PM
I like this deal. It creates the appearance of a stable coaching situation to players potentially joining the Texans, but in reality Kubiak's job is in as much danger as it was a week ago. Firing Kubiak after next season is still an option with only 2 years left on his contract. Having a coach with no contract for the next season creates a lot of uncertainty and doubt in a locker room.

houstonspartan
02-02-2010, 05:15 PM
Well, when Houstonspartan jumps on this thread and begins to predict "another 7-9 season"... even though there hasn't been one of those under Kubiak, it does give the impression that the guy isn't exactly hoping for the team's success. After all, we were 9-7 this season. The off-season hasn't even started yet. Surely a fan can be cautiously optimistic at this point and still voice his trepidation for the coach. But, not him, I guess.

Oh, sure. I hope they fail. Yeah, I've invested five years of being a season ticket holder in this team because I want them to fail.

Give me a break. I live, breathe, eat and sleep this team.

I'm being real. Gary's performance record suggests 5 or 6 losses in the division alone. Do I hope I'm wrong? Of course. And I will admit it. But that's not going to stop me from giving a fair, honest assessment of this team.

houstonspartan
02-02-2010, 05:17 PM
a shitty fan is a shitty fan, too. Wouldn't you agree with that?

I do. You should grab a mirror.

I have years of reciepts that prove that I'm not a shitty fan. I put my money where my mouth is. I'm lucky that I am able to do so.

Wolf
02-02-2010, 05:19 PM
not sure why anyone is surprised or upset now , McNair basically said Kubiak would be back at the beginning of this year

steelbtexan
02-02-2010, 05:20 PM
Casserly and Capers were well regarded and not bargain basement. He paid for Sherman and Alex Gibbs. He has brought in guys at the top of their off-season positions. Wade was listed as the top UFA OT that off-season. Robaire Smith was a top 3 DT that off-season. Walker got a fat contract. He paid a lot of money for a gamble on Schaub. He could have saved himself a bunch of money by not extending Carr. They went after Orlando Pace. Clearly not all of those decisions worked out well for the team but they demonstrated a willingness to spend money. No they haven't gone after the Haynesworth blockbuster guys but that isn't proof he is cheap. It isn't even my money and I am against those deals 95% of the time.

Were Gibbs and Sherman paid top $ as their position coaches? I dont know the answer to this.

As far as FA goes CC were well regarded? Casserely screwed up Washington before getting fired. The NFL league offices held Casserly in high regard. Which is why McNair hired Casserly. Capers was known as a guy that knew how to start up a franchise. When he left Carolina it took 2 coaches Seifert/Fox) for the Panthers to get back to the playoffs.

I dont know where Wade/R.Smith etc. were rated in their FA classes but I'm not suprised Casserly screwed up decisions in FA.

I hope that McNair will decide to give Smithiak the same luxury in aquiring top tier FA's as he did Casserly. (I doubt this will happen)

thunderkyss
02-02-2010, 05:21 PM
..... what has warranted an extension? 1 winning season? Maybe a 2nd this upcoming year? Ahh it is what it is.

4 years ago, when Gary accepted the job, where did you think this team would be 4 years later?

I'm going to assume that we have underperformed your expectations, but how far under the bar are we?

Do you think we are on the right track? or do you think we are wasting our time?

Wolf
02-02-2010, 05:21 PM
I like this deal. It creates the appearance of a stable coaching situation to players potentially joining the Texans, but in reality Kubiak's job is in as much danger as it was a week ago. Firing Kubiak after next season is still an option with only 2 years left on his contract. Having a coach with no contract for the next season creates a lot of uncertainty and doubt in a locker room.

exactly, bottom line is Kubiak has to get this team to the playoffs next season and if he doesn't I imagine he is gone (unless the Texans go 11-5 and still miss it or something crazy like that)

steelbtexan
02-02-2010, 05:26 PM
[QUOTE=Joe Texan;1359162]:lol: Eff you pink Soap droppers[/QUOTE

You dont get it we all want the Texans to win. Now that Kubes has signed his extension I'm all behind him. I dont think it was wrong to ? the wisdom behind giving him an extention.

So enough with the giggling icon and you can take my pink soap and stick it up your a**.

houstonspartan
02-02-2010, 05:30 PM
4 years ago, when Gary accepted the job, where did you think this team would be 4 years later?

I'm going to assume that we have underperformed your expectations, but how far under the bar are we?

Do you think we are on the right track? or do you think we are wasting our time?

Thunder,

Fair enough. I respect your thoughts, even though we often don't agree. No doubt we have come a LOOOOONG way. And we are currently a good, solid team.

But we still appear to be stumbling and bumbling our way around the field. And we have too much talent for that. I think that's where the frustration sets in.

I think we're on the right track, but that's a complicated question.

Here's where I think we're headed: In the next four or five years, the Texans will go to the Super Bowl. And we will win it. However, Kubiak won't be the coach. He will have been fired by then, and a new coach will come in and take us where we need to go fairly quickly.

Then, we will become one of those Super Bowl teams that will be debated for years to come: Coach X took the Texans to the Super Bowl, but with Kubiak's players...etc...

I can see it plain as day. That's what's setting up right now. It happens all the time in the NFL. As a fan, I don't care WHO coaches us to the Super Bowl. Just get us there.

When I think about the players on this team, I get excited. No joke. My adreneline starts pumping. But when I think about the coach, I don't get excited. It's not that I hate the team. I just have serious doubts about the coach.

Does that make sense?

The Pencil Neck
02-02-2010, 05:32 PM
Steel,

I'm just as angry about this as you are, and am wondering what McNair is thinking.

However, I've never thought of McNair as a cheap owner. I really don't think he is. In fact, I would say he's often been the other way, tossing open the vault so we can pay scrubs.

If Kubiak wanted to fly every single player to Hawaii for three months for training camp, McNair would say yes in three seconds.

But there's the rub, and my frustration with him: He sometimes says yes a bit too much...

This is the way I've seen it, too. I've heard a couple of people complain that McNair is a penny pincher but I don't think there could be anything further from the truth than that.

The last couple of years, we've had one of the largest coaching staffs in the NFL. That's paying money.

Back in the C&C days, we threw money at guys that didn't deserve it under the excuse that good FAs wouldn't want to come here because we were new and didn't have a good team. That put us into salary cap hell with dead money out the ass and Smith has had to dig us out from under that.

I think McNair wants a perennial power house here and he's trying to do the right things to do that. What he thinks are the right things and what some posters on this board thing are the right things might not correspond, but I don't think it's because of the money involved.

thunderkyss
02-02-2010, 05:36 PM
Kubiak got the extension but he will still be fired next season if he doesn't improve and get this team in the playoffs.

I do agree, if this team isn't better at the end of the season than we are now, the man should go.

I don't agree with the "play-offs" being part of the equation. Remember, it's possible to go 11-5 in the AFC and not make the play-offs.

Unless you are saying the goal should be to win the division. I don't agree that should be where the bar should be set, but I can understand, "Win the division or be gone." more than "Get in the play-offs or be gone."



This, to me, is more for what McNair said, posturing in free agency ...

I'm not buying that. It's not like we go after the top free agents. I doubt Anthony Weaver, Antonio Smith & Eugene Wilson were too concerned about our coaching situation.

If I were a RB, TE, or WR, I would almost kill to be part of this offense.

If I were a CB, DT, FS... DE, Houston may not be my first choice, but Mario, Demeco, & Cushing would be more of a draw than the future of the head-coach.

But, that's just me.

The Pencil Neck
02-02-2010, 05:36 PM
When I think about the players on this team, I get excited. No joke. My adreneline starts pumping. But when I think about the coach, I don't get excited. It's not that I hate the team. I just have serious doubts about the coach.

Does that make sense?

I'm not TK, but...

I'm fine with that and I understand that. What gets me is when the rhetoric gets into hyperbole mode.

Personally, I think Kubiak is as good of a coach as a Tom Coughlin or a Brian Billick or maybe even a Dick Vermiel. I look at the talent on this team and, like you, I get excited about it. But I think we're going to get more talented and deeper and better. I just don't think we've hit the ceiling. And I think that's the difference between our positions.

houstonspartan
02-02-2010, 05:40 PM
I'm not TK, but...

I'm fine with that and I understand that. What gets me is when the rhetoric gets into hyperbole mode.

Personally, I think Kubiak is as good of a coach as a Tom Coughlin or a Brian Billick or maybe even a Dick Vermiel. I look at the talent on this team and, like you, I get excited about it. But I think we're going to get more talented and deeper and better. I just don't think we've hit the ceiling. And I think that's the difference between our positions.

Good point. I see what you mean.

And, I don't totally think he's a useless coach. One of the things I like is his ability to pick a diamond in the rough in late draft rounds and turn them into super stars. Some people get annoyed by that and say that Kubiak should stop drafting "projects," but I like that he does it.

Guess we all have our opinions.

Wolf
02-02-2010, 05:46 PM
"I like to draft projects"

signed

Charlie Casserly

:gun:

with that bad joke, Kubiak and Smith have done well drafting in the late rounds

The Pencil Neck
02-02-2010, 05:49 PM
Good point. I see what you mean.

And, I don't totally think he's a useless coach. One of the things I like is his ability to pick a diamond in the rough in late draft rounds and turn them into super stars. Some people get annoyed by that and say that Kubiak should stop drafting "projects," but I like that he does it.

Guess we all have our opinions.

And at least he's an offensive minded head coach that was able to build a powerful offense and pick up a QB who could possibly be considered elite. Unlike Billick, whose offense never sniffed at what he had in Minnesota when he was an OC and was never able to do better than 14th in yards from scrimmage.

Thorn
02-02-2010, 05:51 PM
It's done an over with. Some of us expect Kubiak to fail, some of us expect Kubiak to succeed, but those who I think are realistic about all this don't know what to expect and are just hoping for success. We still got free agency, the draft, and training camp before the season starts. And one thing we should ALL know by now is those three things can change a season.

Lucky
02-02-2010, 05:54 PM
'eh, it is what it is. I've gone from low expectations to no expectations. But I'll be there rooting for the Texans in 2010. Go team go. :texflag:
I see where you're coming from. But, I still have high expectations. Talent can trump coaching. And the Texans have talent that is maturing. I expect that talent to take over in 2010. I'm puting it on Andre Johnson, Mario Williams, Matt Schaub, DeMeco Ryans, and Brian Cushing to lift their teammates to a championship level.

So it's time to put the pink soap away for...now. It's time to start winning, and winning big. I don't want to hear from the head coach that a 10-6 record and the playoffs are an acceptable goal. All I want to hear is how the Houston Texans will become the next champions of National Football League. I expect to hock everything I can, buy a ticket to Jerry Jones' Taj Mahal, and watch my football team win Super Bowl XLV.

Double Barrel
02-02-2010, 05:55 PM
It's done an over with. Some of us expect Kubiak to fail, some of us expect Kubiak to succeed, but those who I think are realistic about all this don't know what to expect and are just hoping for success. We still got free agency, the draft, and training camp before the season starts. And one thing we should ALL know by now is those three things can change a season.

Booya! Count me in this third group. Expect nothing but hope for the best! Go team go. :texflag:

infantrycak
02-02-2010, 05:55 PM
I dont know where Wade/R.Smith etc. were rated in their FA classes but I'm not suprised Casserly screwed up decisions in FA.

I hope that McNair will decide to give Smithiak the same luxury in aquiring top tier FA's as he did Casserly. (I doubt this will happen)

Well just for example look at last year and signing Antonio Smith. He was ranked as the 5th best DE but 2 guys in front were franchised and one, Jason Taylor was a one year at a time type of guy at the back end of his career. Going after Smith was going after a top realistic DE. Link. (http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=127&p=9&c=12&nid=83&lnid=83&yr=2009) Year before, Reeves was the 6th FA DB with one franchised, one resigned with his team, one RFA and one signed to a giant contract. I'd like to have Asante back there but again they spent money to improve the team. Clearly there are Snyder's of the world that spend any amount - he and Jones are the classic examples - but it really hasn't worked out well for them. How about that Roy Williams trade?

dalemurphy
02-02-2010, 06:00 PM
Oh, sure. I hope they fail. Yeah, I've invested five years of being a season ticket holder in this team because I want them to fail.

Give me a break. I live, breathe, eat and sleep this team.

I'm being real. Gary's performance record suggests 5 or 6 losses in the division alone. Do I hope I'm wrong? Of course. And I will admit it. But that's not going to stop me from giving a fair, honest assessment of this team.

This is what you said on page one!: "That's exactly what's going to happen. He's going to get complacent, sit on his butt, ignore the division games, bring us to 7-9, and say "It's all on me.""

Perhaps I'm missing something?

dalemurphy
02-02-2010, 06:07 PM
I do. You should grab a mirror.

I have years of reciepts that prove that I'm not a shitty fan. I put my money where my mouth is. I'm lucky that I am able to do so.


Well, I don't live in Houston, so I don't think going to games in Reliant is a fair measure of what makes a good fan or not. You probably live in Houston. I'm in Austin so I would have to drive almost 3 hours each way just to go to a football game. That would mean, if I wanted to tailgate before all those noon games, I'd need to leave Austin at 5:30 am and wouldn't get back home until late in the evening.



Oh, I just grabbed a mirror, and saw an Austinite that has been a season ticket holder since 2002 and has made probably 50 of those roundtrips. Thanks for the suggestion!

dalemurphy
02-02-2010, 06:15 PM
Perhaps Kubiak would be more deserving of this deal if he was more like Tony Sparano, right?:

Here's a snippet from rotoworld.com:

"Dolphins OLB Joey Porter revealed that he and Tony Sparano never spoke a word to each other after his mid-November suspension".

man, that's the kind of leadership Kubiak needs to use more: The silent treatment! If he behaved more like a 14 year old girl, imagine how successful the team could've been last year! Kudos to TONY SPARANO! 6 weeks of the silent treatment. IMPRESSIVE!

houstonspartan
02-02-2010, 06:24 PM
This is what you said on page one!: "That's exactly what's going to happen. He's going to get complacent, sit on his butt, ignore the division games, bring us to 7-9, and say "It's all on me.""

Perhaps I'm missing something?


No, you're not missing anything. That's what I predicted their record would be next year. I guess you're saying that's "fail." Perhaps. I consider fail to be in the 3-13, 2-14 range.

Kaiser Toro
02-02-2010, 06:25 PM
I expect to hock everything I can, buy a ticket to Jerry Jones' Taj Mahal, and watch my football team win Super Bowl XLV.

In the event we make the SUper Bowl we should take a week off before the Super Bowl and walk to Dallas from Reliant and have it sponsored. Between the sponsorship dollars and "football interest story" we could easily get in at "no cost."

Should that not work I will be going the old fashioned way.

houstonspartan
02-02-2010, 06:28 PM
Well, I don't live in Houston, so I don't think going to games in Reliant is a fair measure of what makes a good fan or not. You probably live in Houston. I'm in Austin so I would have to drive almost 3 hours each way just to go to a football game. That would mean, if I wanted to tailgate before all those noon games, I'd need to leave Austin at 5:30 am and wouldn't get back home until late in the evening.



Oh, I just grabbed a mirror, and saw an Austinite that has been a season ticket holder since 2002 and has made probably 50 of those roundtrips. Thanks for the suggestion!

No, of course I don't think going to Reliant is a fair measure of what makes a good fan. I know people that have never been to Reliant, and are ravid, mad dog Texan fans.

Last year, I was talking to a company out of state about a job and relocating. If it had worked out, I had decided I would keep my Texans tickets. Yep. I would fly down for most of the home games. Cheap tix to Houston are easy to find, and I have some miles saved up. Yep, I'm that hard core.

But, that's irrelevant. We're all intense fans here. We get excited over different things is all.

Kaiser Toro
02-02-2010, 06:28 PM
Well, I don't live in Houston, so I don't think going to games in Reliant is a fair measure of what makes a good fan or not. You probably live in Houston. I'm in Austin so I would have to drive almost 3 hours each way just to go to a football game. That would mean, if I wanted to tailgate before all those noon games, I'd need to leave Austin at 5:30 am and wouldn't get back home until late in the evening.



Oh, I just grabbed a mirror, and saw an Austinite that has been a season ticket holder since 2002 and has made probably 50 of those roundtrips. Thanks for the suggestion!

Whatever, you t-sipping tree hugger. You call that commitment? :kitten:

JimC
02-02-2010, 06:29 PM
There are two reasons that this extension is a complete no-brainer.

First, the extension won't keep Kubiak from getting fired if he performs badly. The difference in money is in line with one year of Anthony Weaver's old contract -- hardly an obstacle to changing the entire direction of an NFL franchise.

Second, next year is likely to be a strange offseason with a lockout looming over every decision made. Once McNair decided to keep Kubiak this year, it made no sense to consider replacing him next year with a lockout looming. What top-tier head coach would join a team just in time for a lockout?

The only way McNair would consider firing Kubiak before late in the 2011-2012 season is if the labor situation is cleared up before next year's Superbowl. If the Texans enter the 2011 offseason with the labor situation still uncertain, McNair won't attempt to change coaches. The new coach would have almost no chance to succeed with such uncertainty.

Given the way things are going in the labor negotiations, Kubiak is almost certain to be the coach through the end of the 2011-2012 season. At that point, he will have only 1 year left on his new contract.

When you combine McNair's decision to keep Kubiak next year with the labor situation looming over the following year, the extension is a complete no-brainer.

houstonspartan
02-02-2010, 06:31 PM
Perhaps Kubiak would be more deserving of this deal if he was more like Tony Sparano, right?:

Here's a snippet from rotoworld.com:

"Dolphins OLB Joey Porter revealed that he and Tony Sparano never spoke a word to each other after his mid-November suspension".

man, that's the kind of leadership Kubiak needs to use more: The silent treatment! If he behaved more like a 14 year old girl, imagine how successful the team could've been last year! Kudos to TONY SPARANO! 6 weeks of the silent treatment. IMPRESSIVE!

LOL. We actually agree on something.

No, Kubiak shouldn't behave like that. That's not motivating players. That's just being a jerk. For a coach to not talk to a player for six weeks is just ridiculus.

dalemurphy
02-02-2010, 06:32 PM
No, you're not missing anything. That's what I predicted their record would be next year. I guess you're saying that's "fail." Perhaps. I consider fail to be in the 3-13, 2-14 range.

We lost 1 game by more than one score last year. We have 8 draft picks and plenty of money to spend. We have the youngest team in the NFL... Yet, on Feb. 2nd, you are predicting this team will lose two games more than it did last year and have it's worst season since 2006. Based on what?... the fact that the coach who hasn't had a losing season since 2006 signed an extension? If you aren't hoping it happens, then what is the basis for that prediction?

Lucky
02-02-2010, 06:36 PM
In the event we make the SUper Bowl we should take a week off before the Super Bowl and walk to Dallas from Reliant and have it sponsored. Between the sponsorship dollars and "football interest story" we could easily get in at "no cost."

That's a great freakin' idea!

That's why you're the smartest kid in the room. :D

WWJD
02-02-2010, 06:38 PM
LOL. We actually agree on something.

No, Kubiak shouldn't behave like that. That's not motivating players. That's just being a jerk. For a coach to not talk to a player for six weeks is just ridiculus.

Sparano is from the Bill Parcells School of Coaching...TO is alot of things and mostly all bad but he said that Bill Parcells never spoke a word to him the entire time they were both with the Cowboys.

I agree with you. Not a good way to coach a player.

Texecutioner
02-02-2010, 06:39 PM
Perhaps Kubiak would be more deserving of this deal if he was more like Tony Sparano, right?:

Here's a snippet from rotoworld.com:

"Dolphins OLB Joey Porter revealed that he and Tony Sparano never spoke a word to each other after his mid-November suspension".

man, that's the kind of leadership Kubiak needs to use more: The silent treatment! If he behaved more like a 14 year old girl, imagine how successful the team could've been last year! Kudos to TONY SPARANO! 6 weeks of the silent treatment. IMPRESSIVE!


This is seriously one of the silliest posts I've read in here. You're so butt hurt over the fact that some posters on a football website don't cater to your homerish feelings over a HC that has never made it to the playoffs, so you go out of your way and reach to try and insult another coach that's been a runner up to coach of the year just last season after taking over a 1-15 team and who highly over achieved in his first season and did a decent job in his 2nd season. It's one thing to make arguments for why you like Kubiak or why you want him as the HC, but to sit here and bash Sparano just makes you look uninformed as a football fan in general.

HoustonFrog
02-02-2010, 06:42 PM
:lol: Eff you pink Soap droppers

Stay classy JT

As far as the deal, as I said earlier, I wanted one less year than the 2013 report and got that. Now it is sit back and watch time.

Marcus
02-02-2010, 06:49 PM
Yes and what has happened since this franchises inception to make that statement seem untrue to you.

Give examples where McNair has re-invsted the $ that he's made off the fan base either on top notch coaches. (1st time GM,HC,OC,DC) or top tier FA. McNair always pays a little above market value for a 2nd tier FA A.Smith) While his franchise keeps going up in value. The Texans are currently the 6th most valuable franchise in the NFL.

If McNair is keeping Kubes so that as he said the team can attract FA's this offseason then fine. The proof will be in the pudding. Or this may just be another PR move with the intention to keep the $ rolling in.

So I guess when you say that "every Texan fan wants one thing, THE TEXANS TO BE A WINNER", that doesn't include McNair, right? I guess he must not be a Texan fan, right?

And no, I'm not putting words in your mouth. Go back and carefully re-read what you posted.

dalemurphy
02-02-2010, 06:54 PM
This is seriously one of the silliest posts I've read in here. You're so butt hurt over the fact that some posters on a football website don't cater to your homerish feelings over a HC that has never made it to the playoffs, so you go out of your way and reach to try and insult another coach that's been a runner up to coach of the year just last season after taking over a 1-15 team and who highly over achieved in his first season and did a decent job in his 2nd season. It's one thing to make arguments for why you like Kubiak or why you want him as the HC, but to sit here and bash Sparano just makes you look uninformed as a football fan in general.

What's silly is you not being able to recognize how amateurish and childish it is for a grown man to give another grown man the silent treatment. The fact that the team had one good season under him hardly makes him a good coach.

See: Herm Edwards, Eric Mangini.

Joe Texan
02-02-2010, 07:03 PM
Anyone who had the Pink Soap needs to use it in the shower now.
After reading what you guys were saying about Gary I am laughing My Ass OFF

thunderkyss
02-02-2010, 07:16 PM
When I think about the players on this team, I get excited. No joke. My adrenaline starts pumping. But when I think about the coach, I don't get excited. It's not that I hate the team. I just have serious doubts about the coach.

Does that make sense?

I thought I've been pretty clear about not understanding why people have doubts about our coach.

I thought it was pretty clear to everyone that Gary Kubiak was not ready to be a head coach after the 2006 season. We could clearly see he had some learning to do.

Whether he brought them on himself, or they were forced on him, Gary's been hamstrung most of his HC career. I don't know if there was any truth to McNair requiring some veteran leadership on Gary's coaching staff... Mike Sherman, Richard Smith....

More Hamstringing... Kyle Shanahan... David Carr... Charlie Casserly..

I think this was the first year, that Kubiak grabbed his gnads, and said we're going to do it my way. & I like that.

Even with everything he's had to put up with, he's done a really good job building this team through the draft.

I think it is a testament to his coaching ability that we've got the #4 total offense & the only high draft pick he's used on offense was a LT. We're not breaking the bank on offensive FAs.... we're basically scrubs on offense, overachieving like a mother@#$. & we had no run game in 2009.

Defensively, again, mostly through the draft, he's put together a very impressive core of players, mostly through the draft. The talent on the defensive side of the ball is actually better than what we've got offensively....

I've never been a draft only guy, mainly because I believe that route takes longer.



Personally I don't understand how we can judge what he does on game day, or say we won or lost a game because of this decision, or that decision... when his young team still act like a young team. Inconsistency is one thing, but unpredictable is something totally different.

Raise your hands if you knew Slaton was going to develop a bad.... bad case of the drops.. If you knew we would lose our 2 starting guards 3 games into the season..

Raise your hands if you knew we would lose OD when the schedule got tough. Or that you knew KDub would only beat OD by 100 yards on the season despite playing 6 more games.

I'm not making excuses for the man. I recognize there is still a lot of learning & growing going on on the sidelines as well as on the field. When I talk about the foundation Kubiak is building, I recognize he's building it on the sidelines as well.

& though Andre Johnson has been our best player since we drafted him, & Schaub has been our QB since we gave two picks for him, neither were true leaders on this team, until this year.

Plain as day, I see the future of this team as well.... & it looks nothing like what you see.

Not saying my opinion is more valid than yours... just saying I honestly don't get your opinion.

Kaiser Toro
02-02-2010, 07:18 PM
Soap. Shower. Ass. Gary. 2010 is going to be a doozy.

Kris Brown saw his shadow go wide left today. The Texans can expect one more season of...

HoustonFrog
02-02-2010, 07:19 PM
What's silly is you not being able to recognize how amateurish and childish it is for a grown man to give another grown man the silent treatment. The fact that the team had one good season under him hardly makes him a good coach.

See: Herm Edwards, Eric Mangini.

I'm not sure if you know this but Parcells, Landry and a host of other HOF coaches were known to barely communicate with players who weren't respecting them. It has happened since football has been around. From the stuff I have heard spewed from Porter's mouth, I don't blame Sparano.

Anyone who had the Pink Soap needs to use it in the shower now.
After reading what you guys were saying about Gary I am laughing My Ass OFF

I've come to the conclusion that you write ignorant stuff just to stir the pot and because there are no repercussions for you. At least I hope it is to stir the pot because it would be scary if you believe half of it. Most people expected this. It has nothing to do with being right or him being able to be fired or kept next year. You realize this right?

This comes to mind everytime I read you

"Principal: Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

Joe Texan
02-02-2010, 07:27 PM
I realize how stupid some of the posts on here were and how adamant poeple were that gary needs to go and how it pissed them off whenever someone spoke highly of Gary. Look at them now and you know who you were. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

dalemurphy
02-02-2010, 07:46 PM
I'm not sure if you know this but Parcells, Landry and a host of other HOF coaches were known to barely communicate with players who weren't respecting them. It has happened since football has been around. From the stuff I have heard spewed from Porter's mouth, I don't blame Sparano. [/I]

It's comforting to me to know that the coach I root for is a vastly superior man and coach, at least in this regard.

HoustonFrog
02-02-2010, 07:59 PM
It's comforting to me to know that the coach I root for is a vastly superior man and coach, at least in this regard.

It has nothing to do with what kind of man he is. Landry is a legend and was a great man who was known for his faith. But Staubach and many others said he was stubborn about what he wanted done and when players didn't comply he could be known to let his coaches coach while he didn't have to say a word to them. They just knew. You are really just overplaying something that happens quite often. Some guys are screamers and some guys can say a ton by saying nothing.

Joe Texan
02-02-2010, 08:36 PM
Now Tom Landry was a Texas Hero and did coach Americas Team, When Jerry took over they lost that title and jerry was an ass to treat Tom the way he did. Now he has Tom in statue outside his new stadium, If I was Ms. Landry I would sue and have him take it down

houstonspartan
02-02-2010, 08:59 PM
I thought I've been pretty clear about not understanding why people have doubts about our coach.

I thought it was pretty clear to everyone that Gary Kubiak was not ready to be a head coach after the 2006 season. We could clearly see he had some learning to do.

Whether he brought them on himself, or they were forced on him, Gary's been hamstrung most of his HC career. I don't know if there was any truth to McNair requiring some veteran leadership on Gary's coaching staff... Mike Sherman, Richard Smith....

More Hamstringing... Kyle Shanahan... David Carr... Charlie Casserly..

I think this was the first year, that Kubiak grabbed his gnads, and said we're going to do it my way. & I like that.

Even with everything he's had to put up with, he's done a really good job building this team through the draft.

I think it is a testament to his coaching ability that we've got the #4 total offense & the only high draft pick he's used on offense was a LT. We're not breaking the bank on offensive FAs.... we're basically scrubs on offense, overachieving like a mother@#$. & we had no run game in 2009.

Defensively, again, mostly through the draft, he's put together a very impressive core of players, mostly through the draft. The talent on the defensive side of the ball is actually better than what we've got offensively....

I've never been a draft only guy, mainly because I believe that route takes longer.



Personally I don't understand how we can judge what he does on game day, or say we won or lost a game because of this decision, or that decision... when his young team still act like a young team. Inconsistency is one thing, but unpredictable is something totally different.

Raise your hands if you knew Slaton was going to develop a bad.... bad case of the drops.. If you knew we would lose our 2 starting guards 3 games into the season..

Raise your hands if you knew we would lose OD when the schedule got tough. Or that you knew KDub would only beat OD by 100 yards on the season despite playing 6 more games.

I'm not making excuses for the man. I recognize there is still a lot of learning & growing going on on the sidelines as well as on the field. When I talk about the foundation Kubiak is building, I recognize he's building it on the sidelines as well.

& though Andre Johnson has been our best player since we drafted him, & Schaub has been our QB since we gave two picks for him, neither were true leaders on this team, until this year.

Plain as day, I see the future of this team as well.... & it looks nothing like what you see.

Not saying my opinion is more valid than yours... just saying I honestly don't get your opinion.


You think Gary has been hamstrung? As in, not being able to do his job? As in, someone is holding him back?

Wow. Never mind.

kiwitexansfan
02-02-2010, 09:13 PM
I like the extension, I rate stability as an important component of long term success.

Kubiak is a great X-O's coach and the players seem to like him.

Now with the defence another year into its system we are on the right track.

GP
02-02-2010, 09:43 PM
Anyone who had the Pink Soap needs to use it in the shower now.
After reading what you guys were saying about Gary I am laughing My Ass OFF

You DO understand that an extension is more of a safety net for the Texans than it is for Kubiak, don't you? LOL.

Yeah, Joe. Our minds are truly changed now that Kubiak isn't working under a one-year contract.

Oops. I forgot. EVERY coach works under what is essentially a one-year contract.

We should have listened to you, Joe. Will you forgive us? :heart:

steelbtexan
02-02-2010, 09:45 PM
Well just for example look at last year and signing Antonio Smith. He was ranked as the 5th best DE but 2 guys in front were franchised and one, Jason Taylor was a one year at a time type of guy at the back end of his career. Going after Smith was going after a top realistic DE. Link. (http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=127&p=9&c=12&nid=83&lnid=83&yr=2009) Year before, Reeves was the 6th FA DB with one franchised, one resigned with his team, one RFA and one signed to a giant contract. I'd like to have Asante back there but again they spent money to improve the team. Clearly there are Snyder's of the world that spend any amount - he and Jones are the classic examples - but it really hasn't worked out well for them. How about that Roy Williams trade?

Sometimes you win sometimes you lose. If you dont take a chace you're garunteed not to win.

I know you dont like to spend $ in FA. Hell I dont like having the team to spend $ in FA either. It is a necessary evil.

The good teams (the final 4 have all spent big $ in FA Indy not so much) bite the bullet and spend anyway.

steelbtexan
02-02-2010, 10:02 PM
Hou Spartan

Dont take my thinking McNair doesn't know what he's doing, Front office/player wise to think that I'm mad.

After the Tack Monday night game I realized that that game meant far more to the fans than to the Texans organization. I was mad but I realized there was nothing I could do about it. I vowed to not get emotionally envolved with this team again.

That's why I laughed in the games right after that. (blowing the game against INDY and the Jax HB pass game.) This is the kind of team McNair wants and that's the way it is.

I've learned to laugh about this bumbling stumbling organization that's led by the huckster named Bob McNair.

Just for all of you that say McNair didn't make a billion dollars making mistakes. Just because somebody is successful in one business doesn't mean they will be successful in another totally diferent business. In fact the odds are against a McNair team being successful with the good ole boy attitude that currently exists in this organization.

Wolf
02-02-2010, 10:07 PM
seriously?

The Pencil Neck
02-02-2010, 10:22 PM
In the event we make the SUper Bowl we should take a week off before the Super Bowl and walk to Dallas from Reliant and have it sponsored. Between the sponsorship dollars and "football interest story" we could easily get in at "no cost."

Should that not work I will be going the old fashioned way.

Can I just walk from my home here in Dallas, instead? Not that I'm not devoted or anything but... well... you know... that woud be the suxor.

And if we make it to the SB here in Dallas, I might be willing to put someone up for the weekend. Providing they're clean and stuff. And provided the boss approves.

Second Honeymoon
02-02-2010, 10:34 PM
hooray. we just gave a .500 coach a 3year extension. Why not a lifetime contract, Bob? Why not just name the stadium after him. Kubiak Stadium. Why don't we just erect a statue of the guy outside the stadium. You could have him there with his Denny's menu turning away from watching the play because he doesn't have the balls to actually watch players compete. All huddled over like he just set off a firecracker and he is afraid of the noise its gonna make. The guy has done a great job with the offense but his teams play flat and he makes WAYYYY too many stupid decisions. Outcoached on an almost weekly basis.

can you say cheap ass owner? i sure can. mcnair's ability to make decisions is a joke.

EPIC FAIL and when it all comes back to bite us...again...
maybe one day Bob will release that being a carebear owner has failure written all over it.

half the fans want Kubiak fired and they re-sign the guy...sounds like another brilliant decision he made.

MORON

thunderkyss
02-02-2010, 10:37 PM
In fact the odds are against a McNair team being successful with the good ole boy attitude that currently exists in this organization.


When you say, "good ole boy" do you mean "good ole boy" or do you mean "good character guys"?

Just ask'n

Wolf
02-02-2010, 10:43 PM
well guess this offense would have done wonders if we would have gotten rid of kubiak and after losing our offensive coordinator/QB coach

:sarcasm:

again, we knew this on or about Jan 2nd that Kubiak was staying, I don't see why there is a continued outroar

besides If Kubiak doesn't cut it after this year, he will be gone

steelbtexan
02-02-2010, 10:54 PM
I think McNair has favorites (one ex. K.Brown) and it doesn't matter that Kubes has been an average HC. He likes Kubes therefore McNair makes a judgement (contract extention) based on emotions. Rather than doing the prudent thing and let the 2010 season play out.

As far as players go L.Johnson could've been the difference in making the playoofs. Pollard spoke on his behalf. McNair said no to the move. Johnson helped Cincy make the playoffs, and had no problems on/off the field in Cincy. Meanwhile Texan fans got to continue to watch the greatness of C.Brown and get another year of watching other teams in the playoffs.

That is another example of the milk toast attitude I'm talking about.

GP
02-02-2010, 10:58 PM
hooray. we just gave a .500 coach a 3year extension. Why not a lifetime contract, Bob? Why not just name the stadium after him. Kubiak Stadium. Why don't we just erect a statue of the guy outside the stadium. You could have him there with his Denny's menu turning away from watching the play because he doesn't have the balls to actually watch players compete. All huddled over like he just set off a firecracker and he is afraid of the noise its gonna make. The guy has done a great job with the offense but his teams play flat and he makes WAYYYY too many stupid decisions. Outcoached on an almost weekly basis.

can you say cheap ass owner? i sure can. mcnair's ability to make decisions is a joke.

EPIC FAIL and when it all comes back to bite us...again...
maybe one day Bob will release that being a carebear owner has failure written all over it.

half the fans want Kubiak fired and they re-sign the guy...sounds like another brilliant decision he made.

MORON

LOL. That is a pretty good mental image of what the statue should look like.

Nicely done.

GP
02-02-2010, 11:07 PM
I think McNair has favorites (one ex. K.Brown) and it doesn't matter that Kubes has been an average HC. He likes Kubes therefore McNair makes a judgement (contract extention) based on emotions. Rather than doing the prudent thing and let the 2010 season play out.

As far as players go L.Johnson could've been the difference in making the playoofs. Pollard spoke on his behalf. McNair said no to the move. Johnson helped Cincy make the playoffs, and had no problems on/off the field in Cincy. Meanwhile Texan fans got to continue to watch the greatness of C.Brown and get another year of watching other teams in the playoffs.

That is another example of the milk toast attitude I'm talking about.

You're catching quite a bit of heat for the things you are saying.

This post that you just made? I agree with it.

If we wanted to do all we could do to make the playoffs, we had two chances to upgrade the RB position. It's not a "forever fix," but it could have helped alleviate the pain we endured once Owen Daniels got hurt and the running game started feeling the after-effects of his injury.

Once Owen Daniels was hurt, character issues (including Jacoby Jones' sick, twisted and completely evil act of being late for a meeting) should have taken a back seat to the very real NEED of adding anyone who might be able to produce some positive yards and plays.

And that includes finding a kicker to come in and seize a golden opportunity. That non-move, IMO, is even worse than not trying to sign Larry Johnson and failing to sign Cedric Benson. If you're a kicker out there, you know that there aren't many chances to (a) get a shot with a team mid-year, and (b) possibly go into the playoffs if you come in and nail your kicks. You could be sitting on a pretty sweet trip. So if you're that kicker, do you maybe go 100% let-it-all-hang-out and show you got the goods?

Instead, you got Kris Brown who knew dang well that he was never going to get cut no matter how many FGs or PAT's he missed. The Texans sabotaged themselves by allowing him to trot out there game after game, when everyone with half-a-brain knew Kris Brown was done for the season. It's not even to be argued about. Is it? I mean, can we all agree that our head coach failed to properly address the situation with Kris Brown? Good guy and everything, but he needed to be benched or cut. Period.

So this is where the anger for Kubiak resides. It resides in the knowledge that not EVERYTHING was done, nor was every possible avenue explored, to really get us to the playoffs. That's the empty feeling that some people have spoken of on here, when they talk about how they feel right now.

Slaton gets benched for fumbles. Jacoby can't play in a divisional game. Yet Chris Brown is tossing HB passes and Kris Brown is permitted to suck his way through the rest of the season? There is some serious continuity issues with Gary Kubiak. Maybe that's trickling its way out into each week's game-planning and even the game-day strategy and coaching efforts? Could roster decisions by Kubiak be a snapshot of what else is going on in other areas of the team?

It's certainly plausible. So the little shame-game that's going on against the so-called "soapers" is just comical to me. There's no shame in saying you're fed up with Gary Kubiak's leadership when you look at Rex Ryan and Sean Payton's trips to the playoffs. Owen Daniels injury aside, we could have played the Colts better than the Jets did.

houstonspartan
02-02-2010, 11:12 PM
hooray. we just gave a .500 coach a 3year extension. Why not a lifetime contract, Bob? Why not just name the stadium after him. Kubiak Stadium. Why don't we just erect a statue of the guy outside the stadium. You could have him there with his Denny's menu turning away from watching the play because he doesn't have the balls to actually watch players compete. All huddled over like he just set off a firecracker and he is afraid of the noise its gonna make. The guy has done a great job with the offense but his teams play flat and he makes WAYYYY too many stupid decisions. Outcoached on an almost weekly basis.

can you say cheap ass owner? i sure can. mcnair's ability to make decisions is a joke.

EPIC FAIL and when it all comes back to bite us...again...
maybe one day Bob will release that being a carebear owner has failure written all over it.

half the fans want Kubiak fired and they re-sign the guy...sounds like another brilliant decision he made.

MORON

LOL. Second Honeymoon, I was wondering where you were. Good to see you in this conversation.

And here's the icing on the cake: The invoices for the season ticket holders are starting to roll in this week. McNair wants his first payment - with an increase of course - by the end of this month. Great.

The Pencil Neck
02-02-2010, 11:18 PM
LOL. Second Honeymoon, I was wondering where you were. Good to see you in this conversation.

And here's the icing on the cake: The invoices for the season ticket holders are starting to roll in this week. McNair wants his first payment - with an increase of course - by the end of this month. Great.

Accept mediocrity or don't accept mediocrity. Show your approval or show your disapproval.

Put your money where your mouth is or be McNair's *****.

If you're so unhappy, walk away.

houstonspartan
02-02-2010, 11:19 PM
Instead, you got Kris Brown who knew dang well that he was never going to get cut no matter how many FGs or PAT's he missed. The Texans sabotaged themselves by allowing him to trot out there game after game, when everyone with half-a-brain knew Kris Brown was done for the season. It's not even to be argued about. Is it? I mean, can we all agree that our head coach failed to properly address the situation with Kris Brown? Good guy and everything, but he needed to be benched or cut. Period.

So this is where the anger for Kubiak resides. It resides in the knowledge that not EVERYTHING was done, nor was every possible avenue explored, to really get us to the playoffs. That's the empty feeling that some people have spoken of on here, when they talk about how they feel right now.




GP,

Damn, I wish I could rep you again. The bolded parts were brilliant. And you perfectly explained that "empty" feeling a lot of us had. After the Pat's game, there was just this numbness. I just wasn't feeling all that happy. Something was missing.

I think you nailed it: We could have made the playoffs, but, we didn't have the balls to make tough decisions. We just don't have the killer attitude, either on the field or in the offices.

The Pencil Neck
02-02-2010, 11:23 PM
OK.

You guys feel an empty numbness. You think more could have been done. You think mistakes were made at all levels. You think you were gypped.

I think we got that.

When are you going to stop whining about it?

houstonspartan
02-02-2010, 11:24 PM
Accept mediocrity or don't accept mediocrity. Show your approval or show your disapproval.

Put your money where your mouth is or be McNair's *****.

If you're so unhappy, walk away.

Dude, that's such a simple answer. The point is is that a lot of season ticket holders are furious, and McNair doesn't seem to care. And, just for the record, I have put my money where my mouth is. For five years. I say I'm a fan, and I have proven it with my cash.

houstonspartan
02-02-2010, 11:27 PM
OK.

You guys feel an empty numbness. You think more could have been done. You think mistakes were made at all levels. You think you were gypped.

I think we got that.

When are you going to stop whining about it?

Uh, if you go back and look at the start of this thread, it was the pro-Kubiak people who were on here like, "Nyah, Nyah, Nyah. We won! You didn't!"

What's funny about all of that taunting is that Karma is a first class *****.

Give it a year.

The Pencil Neck
02-02-2010, 11:27 PM
Dude, that's such a simple answer. The point is is that a lot of season ticket holders are furious, and McNair doesn't seem to care. And, just for the record, I have put my money where my mouth is. For five years. I say I'm a fan, and I have proven it with my cash.

And then you say you're not going to accept mediocrity but you keep giving them your cash. If you're that furious, then be a man. Walk away until they fix the problem. If you say you're not going to accept it, then put your money (or lack thereof) where your mouth is.

And you come on this board and you bring your furiousness and pain up in thread after thread. Now, granted, THIS is a thread to bring it up in, but you bring it up in threads where it has nothing to do with anything.

The Pencil Neck
02-02-2010, 11:28 PM
Uh, if you go back and look at the start of this thread, it was the pro-Kubiak people who were on here like, "Nyah, Nyah, Nyah. We won! You didn't!"

What's funny about all of that taunting is that Karma is a first class *****.

Give it a year.

And what have you and the other soapers been doing in thread after thread?

houstonspartan
02-02-2010, 11:30 PM
And then you say you're not going to accept mediocrity but you keep giving them your cash. If you're that furious, then be a man. Walk away until they fix the problem. If you say you're not going to accept it, then put your money (or lack thereof) where your mouth is.

And you come on this board and you bring your furiousness and pain up in thread after thread. Now, granted, THIS is a thread to bring it up in, but you bring it up in threads where it has nothing to do with anything.

Hell no. I bring it up if it's appropriate. If you haven't noticed lately, quite a few threads - unfortunately - devolve into "Kubiak" threads, which kind of sucks. But it happens.

And, in case you hadn't noticed, I'm not the only one who is angry. This is not just me being the lone pissed off Texan fan.

houstonspartan
02-02-2010, 11:32 PM
And what have you and the other soapers been doing in thread after thread?

You know what? I was pissed at first when they gave him his final year of his contract. But, then, I got over it after a week. What's done is done. This is a different story. This is rewarding him for naught.

But, as has been pointed out, he can still get canned.

And, for the record, I've never gotten into that "soaper" nonsense.

GP
02-02-2010, 11:42 PM
OK.

You guys feel an empty numbness. You think more could have been done. You think mistakes were made at all levels. You think you were gypped.

I think we got that.

When are you going to stop whining about it?

Hey, man. We're unhappy that our team's coach didn't man-up and somehow find a way to swallow some ego/pride and do more to get this team into the playoffs. The issues we had are not minor. Kris and Chris is HUGE in terms of positioning us for the playoffs this past season--Having those two guys do what they did, and continuing to run them out there week after week, is something I expected out of Kubiak in his first season when he seriously had no other options to go with. But not THIS year. Not with the way the defense really improved and Matt stayed healthy and finally showed that he gets it.

You, on the other hand, are upset at US.

See the difference?

We find fault with the guy who makes big bucks, and has just been extended. Though I (and others) are aware that Kubiak being extended is no big vote of job security, and I (and others) fully understand that. You sit on your judgment seat and throw stones at those around here who are just sick and tired of the Mickey Mouse'ing that exists with this head coach. Grown men, like Gary Kubiak, do NOT change their stripes overnight--And he sure as heck isn't changing them over a four or five-year period. It should be obvious, by now, that he's hit his ceiling. But he's got a puncher's chance. And that's what has some of you guys scared. You're afraid he's going to hit a bulls-eye, from 1,000 yards out, with a BB gun. So be it.

2010 will be it. It's going to cut one way or another. If I am wrong, I get to eat crow...but I still get to enjoy eating crow because my team found a way to finally get to the playoffs. If non-soapers are wrong, you get to go through the stages of mourning that we have already gone through and moved on from.

I stayed with David Carr up until the very end. I just knew that he could be salvaged and that he could turn it around. I voted with my heart. Instead of voting with my head (that thing that has eyeballs and lets us SEE things). So I pretty much decided that it doesn't take very long in the NFL to know what you have. Which then brings up the issue of God Of The Patriots who seems to have so much in common with Gurry Kubiak.

And the circle of life repeats itself....

infantrycak
02-02-2010, 11:46 PM
Sometimes you win sometimes you lose. If you dont take a chace you're garunteed not to win.

I know you dont like to spend $ in FA. Hell I dont like having the team to spend $ in FA either. It is a necessary evil.

The good teams (the final 4 have all spent big $ in FA Indy not so much) bite the bullet and spend anyway.

No it isn't not liking to spend money in free agency, it is wisely spending money instead of just trying to make a glitzy move. That's my point about Antonio Smith - big but not insane money spent to definitely upgrade the team. I'd rather do that with three guys for $35 mil average than one guy for $100 mil. I'm not seeing "the good teams" comment as correct. As you admit Indy doesn't do it. New Orleans has improved the most off signing a rejected QB, a malcontent TE, an incredibly lucky 7th WR, a LB who didn't fit the system of a coach since fired and an over the hill FS - none of whom were top tier free agents or at least any higher than I am talking about.

Larry Johnson? Really? Dude had 1 good game against one of the worst run D's in the league. But in any event that wasn't the kind of high dollar FA we were discussing.

The point is is that a lot of season ticket holders are furious, and McNair doesn't seem to care.

No, McNair didn't agree. Huge difference between not agreeing and not caring.

houstonspartan
02-02-2010, 11:51 PM
No it isn't not liking to spend money in free agency, it is wisely spending money instead of just trying to make a glitzy move. That's my point about Antonio Smith - big but not insane money spent to definitely upgrade the team. I'd rather do that with three guys for $35 mil average than one guy for $100 mil. I'm not seeing "the good teams" comment as correct. As you admit Indy doesn't do it. New Orleans has improved the most off signing a rejected QB, a malcontent TE, an incredibly lucky 7th WR, a LB who didn't fit the system of a coach since fired and an over the hill FS - none of whom were top tier free agents or at least any higher than I am talking about.

Larry Johnson? Really? Dude had 1 good game against one of the worst run D's in the league. But in any event that wasn't the kind of high dollar FA we were discussing.

I agree with this. Some people are saying we should go after Julius Peppers. But, he's going to be looking for a major contract. And he's, what, 30? Not sure he'd be worth big money for us at this point.

I could be wrong, and he could still have a lot left in the engine. But from where I sit, Peppers may not be worth the potential money. At least not for us.

EDIT: Just saw your comment about me saying McNair doesn't care. Fair point. There is a difference.

DexmanC
02-02-2010, 11:51 PM
Hou Spartan

Dont take my thinking McNair doesn't know what he's doing, Front office/player wise to think that I'm mad.

After the Tack Monday night game I realized that that game meant far more to the fans than to the Texans organization. I was mad but I realized there was nothing I could do about it. I vowed to not get emotionally envolved with this team again.

That's why I laughed in the games right after that. (blowing the game against INDY and the Jax HB pass game.) This is the kind of team McNair wants and that's the way it is.

I've learned to laugh about this bumbling stumbling organization that's led by the huckster named Bob McNair.

Just for all of you that say McNair didn't make a billion dollars making mistakes. Just because somebody is successful in one business doesn't mean they will be successful in another totally diferent business. In fact the odds are against a McNair team being successful with the good ole boy attitude that currently exists in this organization.

Damn. Steel. You sound just like me after the Tacks game. My reaction
to the "DooDoo Brown" play was a hard belly-laugh. This team has to earn
my emotional investment again. Some fans say "Well, wasn't this team
EXCITING!!??"

Professional teams don't get payed to be "exciting."

Professional teams get paid to WIN.

When teams win, emotions are invested into them. I'm waiting on my Texans
to open up their first account.

GP
02-02-2010, 11:56 PM
I think Julius Peppers is a gamble, just like Haynesworth was.

I don't want the money issues and possible side-effects that will be associated with grabbing him off the market.

Of course, that sort of gamble paid off for Jared Allen who was heralded a lot less than Peppers ever was.

It seems that free agency is as big of a gamble as the draft is. Although there has to be ways to know that you're getting a potentially "good" return on your investment. There just has to be a way. Like with Haynesworth, there were a LOT of analysts and even casual fans who were skeptical that the Redskins could land Haynewsorth AND have him play like he did with the Titans. There were a lot of warning signs there, via some character issues.

But then you have Jared Allen. He had some off-the-field character stuff going on, where you really wonder if the guy can hold it all together and be the man the Vikings thought he could be.

It's tiring just thinking about free agency and its pitfalls.

The Pencil Neck
02-02-2010, 11:59 PM
You know what? I was pissed at first when they gave him his final year of his contract. But, then, I got over it after a week. What's done is done. This is a different story. This is rewarding him for naught.

But, as has been pointed out, he can still get canned.

And, for the record, I've never gotten into that "soaper" nonsense.

As I have ponted out, this extension means nothing.

And if you think you've gotten over something, then you should go back and look at some of your posts.

The Pencil Neck
02-03-2010, 12:04 AM
2010 will be it. It's going to cut one way or another. If I am wrong, I get to eat crow...but I still get to enjoy eating crow because my team found a way to finally get to the playoffs. If non-soapers are wrong, you get to go through the stages of mourning that we have already gone through and moved on from.

The extension means nothing. 2010 is Kubes' make or break year.

And on that we agree.

The rest of this is just pure BS and whining. You haven't moved on from anything. If you had moved on, then you wouldn't be making the posts you make. You're still re-hashing what you consider mistakes and errors over and over and over. Making the same points over and over and over again without adding any new information. Some agree with your points and some don't. But we all understand it and there's no reason to go over it again.

houstonspartan
02-03-2010, 12:05 AM
As I have ponted out, this extension means nothing.

And if you think you've gotten over something, then you should go back and look at some of your posts.

Again: I am over him getting his final year of his contract. I am not over him getting the extension. It just happened TODAY. And, yes, I'm pissed about it.

The Pencil Neck
02-03-2010, 12:08 AM
Again: I am over him getting his final year of his contract. I am not over him getting the extension. It just happened TODAY. And, yes, I'm pissed about it.

The extension doesn't mean anything.

If Kubes fails, he'll still be let loose.

Now, the definition of "fail" is going to be open to debate and my definition isn't going to be your definition isn't going to be McNair's definition.

But getting upset over this extension is pointless.

GP
02-03-2010, 12:19 AM
The extension means nothing. 2010 is Kubes' make or break year.

And on that we agree.

The rest of this is just pure BS and whining. You haven't moved on from anything. If you had moved on, then you wouldn't be making the posts you make. You're still re-hashing what you consider mistakes and errors over and over and over. Making the same points over and over and over again without adding any new information. Some agree with your points and some don't. But we all understand it and there's no reason to go over it again.

Oh, so the pro-Kubiak crowd doesn't re-hash old, tired arguments without adding new information. You're being a bit biased with your assertions on this.

This is like saying that only Republicans are scoundrels who lie and steal and corrupt their way to the top. That's junior high'ish, PN, and you know it.

Both sides throw their rocks and bottles at each other. It's how it goes. It's schoolyard rules. Watch the alley fight in the movie Anchorman.

The topic is ABOUT so-called Pink Soapers. Nobody is off-topic here, OK?

And as far as your assertion that I haven't moved on? I didn't sulk and cry when I saw the news that McNair extended Kubiak. The definition of "moving on" is that you are able to accept and adjust to what has happened, as well as to anticipate (and deal with) similar hurts that are bound to occur in the future. I am un-phased with this news of Kubiak's extension.

Why?

Because it's only a safety net for the Texans, in case he hits his bulls-eye with his BB gun. This is essentially Kubiak's version of the David Carr extension. McNair was afraid to let eithe one walk into a tricky situation, so he does the prudent thing and retains the questionable assets for one more closer look. One more year.

Is Kubiak better at his job than Carr was at his? Yes, I have no problem saying that the two are separate in terms of quality when compared side-by-side. But Kubiak is still not good enough to receive MY vote of confidence.

And if a fan wants to feel that way, he can. I agree that it's getting old to talk about this. But this thread was started, and we're all adults here. Choices have been made. And here we are.

GP
02-03-2010, 12:23 AM
The extension doesn't mean anything.

If Kubes fails, he'll still be let loose.

Now, the definition of "fail" is going to be open to debate and my definition isn't going to be your definition isn't going to be McNair's definition.

But getting upset over this extension is pointless.

Well, not everyone reacts the same way.

I was over it in about .5 seconds.

He is taking a bit longer. Big deal.

There's a lot of judgmental attitudes flying around on this issue, which is sort of funny and sort of sad. Oh well. Like I said: We're all adults, and choices have been made about participating in this discussion in this thread. And I am right there in the mix of things, as well. No finger-pointing from me.

Common ground: We all want the Texans to win and get to the playoffs, the extension is really not a Kubiak safety net--it's a Texans safety net--and Vince Young and the Titans can kiss our rears.

:fans:

Ole Miss Texan
02-03-2010, 12:39 AM
Most people are upset over this extension because of the thought Kubiak didn't "deserve" it. This could be true, but it doesn't mean the extension was a bad idea. There's been lots of examples given why already (continuity, free agents, hiring coaches, etc). But I see this as really similar to a player's situation. You run the risk of losing them to free agency. Players get their contracts renewed all the time without "deserving" them. It's out of necessity sometimes and its just part of the game/business. So is overpaying for free agents sometimes.

Now there are different rules regarding signing coaches from other teams vs. players and free agents but the concept is similar.

This extension shows confidence in the direction the organization is going. It tells Kubiak that we think you are the right guy and we support you 100%. He signs an extension with what I'm sure have incentives attached if we reach # of wins or most likely advancement in playoffs.

But what happens if we don't extend his contract now?
(A) Texans don't make playoffs: Now we have to decide whether to keep Kubiak or not. If not, then what coach out there could we pick up that would be better than him? There's also the chance that some other team likes what Kubiak did here, in terms of building the foundation and wants them for their organization... we could lose him even if we want him. This is a possibily although maybe unlikely b/c this seems like such a great opportunity for him (Houston, player/coaches, owner, etc.)

(B) Texans do make the playoffs: Now we think that we definitely want him long term. But now Kubiak's leverage and bargaining position is MUCH higher than it was a year prior. Also more teams may be interested in his services so we could either lose him to them or they could drive his asking price up.

This could be a risky move. Coaches have more ability to leave than players do. But McNair thinks Kubiak is a good investment. In a business sense, he's buying the stock at a lower price now because he thinks it could cost more in the future. So whether or not Kubiak "deserved" this extension, I think it was a really good idea, for tons of reasons. That's one thought anyways.

houstonspartan
02-03-2010, 01:24 AM
Most people are upset over this extension because of the though Kubiak didn't "deserve" it. This could be true, but it doesn't mean the extension was a bad idea. There's been lots of examples given why already (continuity, free agents, hiring coaches, etc). But I see this as really similar to a player's situation. You run the risk of losing them to free agency. Players get their contracts renewed all the time without "deserving" them. It's out of necessity sometimes and its just part of the game/business. So it overpaying for free agents sometimes.

Now there are different rules regarding signing coaches from other teams vs. players and free agents but the concept is general.

This extension shows confidence in the direction the organization is going. It tells Kubiak that we think you are the right guy and we support you 100%. He signs an extension with what I'm sure have incentives attached if we reach # of wins or most likely advancement in playoffs.

But what happens if we don't extend his contract now?
(A) Texan don't make playoffs: Now we have to decide whether to keep Kubiak or not. If not, then what coach out there could we pick up that would be better than him? There's also the chance that some other team likes what Kubiak did here, in terms of building the foundation and wants them for their organization... we could lose him even if we want him. This is a possibily although maybe unlikely b/c this seems like such a great opportunity for him (Houston, player/coaches, owner, etc.)

(B) Texans do make the playoffs: Now we think that we definitely want him long term. But now Kubiak's leverage and bargaining position is MUCH higher than it was a year prior. Also more teams may be interested in his services so we could either lose him to them or they could drive his asking price up.

This could be a risky move. Coaches have more ability to leave than players do. But McNair thinks Kubiak is a good investment. In a business sense, he' buying the stock at a lower price now because he thinks it could cost more in the future. So whether or not Kubiak "deserved" this extension, I think it was a really good idea, for tons of reasons. That's one thought anyways.

Sorry, but I have to disagree. Your scenario would be feasible if we had a coach that has shown some sense of success, someone like Tony Sparano. That situation would be difficult. Kubiak has ZERO leverage. None.

If the Texans don't make the playoffs, the answer is simple. Fire him. There is middle ground there, no hand wringing. He should be fired. Period.

And, please, can we stop with the "who else could we get to come here?" argument. That's simply not true that we couldn't attract a top shelf coach.

Gary has no leverage with this team. What Gary has is a 31-32 record (or something like that) as a coach and a 7-17 record in his division (which is a telling sign of how good a coach is, btw).

As I said earlier, we are going to become the team that fires it's coach, hires someone else, and wins the Super Bowl right after. Then it will be debated for years about how Coach X won with Kubiak's players. Just like the Tampa/Jon Gruden/Tony Dungy saga.

Oh well.

barrett
02-03-2010, 01:45 AM
In the event we make the SUper Bowl we should take a week off before the Super Bowl and walk to Dallas from Reliant and have it sponsored. Between the sponsorship dollars and "football interest story" we could easily get in at "no cost."

Should that not work I will be going the old fashioned way.




I'm in. I'll make the walk. No question. Oh wait!!!!! A fuccking RV was just added to my family tree!!!! Well, I'd still walk if it got me in for free.

By the way Austin Texans, I'm officially starting the "help Barrett continue to have season tickets" movement. That's right, I said RV!!!!!!!!!

Norg
02-03-2010, 01:51 AM
if we go 10-6 and still miss the playoffs will kubes be gone ????? LOL

or how about next year 9-7 gets u in and we get blwon out the WC game ???? to like kansas city or something LOL will kubes be gone

Norg
02-03-2010, 01:52 AM
if the texans make the superbowl we should have a texans fan march to dallas LOL walk all the way to dallas LOL how long would that take ???? maybe horse and cart would be better LOL

Showtime100
02-03-2010, 01:54 AM
***just a notice, fyi, or in case you are interested***

Hey Rookie, Welcome To The NFL is on ESPN2 @ 2:00am CST. Brain Cushing is one of the players they focus on. Really cool show. Didn't want to start a second thread.

Apologies, saw this thread was busy, just trying to help. Carry on. :hides:

barrett
02-03-2010, 02:00 AM
& though Andre Johnson has been our best player since we drafted him, & Schaub has been our QB since we gave two picks for him, neither were true leaders on this team, until this year.

Plain as day, I see the future of this team as well.... & it looks nothing like what you see.

Not saying my opinion is more valid than yours... just saying I honestly don't get your opinion.

Great points all of them. Specifically the one about AJ. Nobody talks about that but he has undoubtedly carried this team on his humble shoulders this past year. (especially the last 5) . But I couldn't agree more with the statements above. Great, great, post.

Ole Miss Texan
02-03-2010, 02:22 AM
Sorry, but I have to disagree. Your scenario would be feasible if we had a coach that has shown some sense of success, someone like Tony Sparano. That situation would be difficult. Kubiak has ZERO leverage. None.

If the Texans don't make the playoffs, the answer is simple. Fire him. There is middle ground there, no hand wringing. He should be fired. Period.

And, please, can we stop with the "who else could we get to come here?" argument. That's simply not true that we couldn't attract a top shelf coach.

Gary has no leverage with this team. What Gary has is a 31-32 record (or something like that) as a coach and a 7-17 record in his division (which is a telling sign of how good a coach is, btw).

As I said earlier, we are going to become the team that fires it's coach, hires someone else, and wins the Super Bowl right after. Then it will be debated for years about how Coach X won with Kubiak's players. Just like the Tampa/Jon Gruden/Tony Dungy saga.

Oh well.

To each their own. But I refuse to believe owners and general managers around the league don't see how much of an improved team the texans are. Who's to say Denver doesn't get fed up with McDaniels after this season and want to bring in ole Kubes!

Bringing in a new coach is a very real issue. It's been talked about a lot but it's there. I have no doubt coaches would be lined up down Kirby to try and get the HC gig here.... but who's to say their coaching philosophy will align with McNair and Smith? Finding THE coach for this team is hard... find A coach is easy. We'd have plenty of guys to choose from sure... but change for the sake of change is not the best business model. And it sure as hell ain't McNair's.

Kubiak's leverage comes next year if he takes us 11-5 and we advance to the AFC Championship game (for example). His contract is up. That's when he's got the leverage, what is his contract then? Right now McNair and Smith know what they have in Kubiak and they've got the leverage right now. Kubiak is making $2MM a year right now, if McNair negotiates a long term deal after a successful next season what's it going to be? $4MM...$5MM a year?

I think you're right, if we do end up getting a new coach and he fits in with our model, he could be very successful. But I think a HUGE part of that will be because of the team Kubiak and Smith built up. The Draftees, the Free Agents and the Coaching Staff.

Scooter
02-03-2010, 02:23 AM
these posts are pretty fun. i'm not going to quote and respond to a mile of posts, so here's some potshots. :fingergun:

gp's in mourning over a 9-7 season that missed the playoffs by conference tiebreaker. somebody get that man a hug!

steelb wants larry johnson who helped the bengals reach the playoffs. the bengals totalled 9 rushing touchdowns this season (6 to benson, 0 to johnson - and 3 go to the quarterback), where as the texans had 13 rushing touchdowns (3 to slaton, 3 to brown - none to the quarterback). we had an absolutely aweful running game this season and the bengals had a great one by their standards. i know it goes against everything "soapers" believe in (attitude, free agency, madden) so i'll give this one for free ... a better arguement would be playing arian foster sooner - more carries, better YPC, and 3 more touchdowns than johnson.

second honeymoon doesnt like something the texans did, which makes me feel safe knowing all's right in the world.


here's my 2 cents. i like the extension obviously, and not for the common reasons posted (consistancy, 2011 uncertainty, assistant coaches, free agents). mcnair emphasized one word twice in my reading of his comments - foundation. this is what kubiak's built. even in a building season like this one where no fewer than 6 rookies see significant playing time and we acquire hopefully a long-term staple on defense in week 3, we're a tiebreaker away from our first playoff berth. that's the foundation mcnair is focused on, and one we're just now in position to start adding accessories to to reach the next level.

bone-head calls aside. management's favoritism aside. every other flaw with kubiak and mcnair and browns and the ball-boy that the forum agrees upon aside. isnt this the team we asked for? 5 probowlers under 29 years old? winning record? a chance at consistancy and realized improvement both now and the forseeable future? we have a foundation built, taught, and coached by kubiak that has nowhere to go but up. if kubiak sticks to his tendancies these next few seasons ... sticks to players too long, gets a value free agent or few, sits the right guy at the wrong time or doesnt sit the wrong guy at the right time, finds a stud or two in the draft and a handful of good depth picks, brainfarts playcalling a couple times, coaches an elite offense and deligates on defense, and everything else i'm missing ... if those things continue, what's the worst that happens, 8-8? realistically 9-11 wins? fortune smiles on us for 12-14 wins?

steelbtexan
02-03-2010, 03:08 AM
No it isn't not liking to spend money in free agency, it is wisely spending money instead of just trying to make a glitzy move. That's my point about Antonio Smith - big but not insane money spent to definitely upgrade the team. I'd rather do that with three guys for $35 mil average than one guy for $100 mil. I'm not seeing "the good teams" comment as correct. As you admit Indy doesn't do it. New Orleans has improved the most off signing a rejected QB, a malcontent TE, an incredibly lucky 7th WR, a LB who didn't fit the system of a coach since fired and an over the hill FS - none of whom were top tier free agents or at least any higher than I am talking about.

Larry Johnson? Really? Dude had 1 good game against one of the worst run D's in the league. But in any event that wasn't the kind of high dollar FA we were discussing.

Wasn't Drew Brees a FA pickup?

The Saints secondary stunk last year. How did they address the problem?

Added Sharper,Greer in FA and drafted Jenkins. Those are bold moves that helped get them in the playoffs.

I sure would like to see the Texans make some moves like this. If the Texans had let Dunta walk they could've signed both Sharper and Greer. Instead they chose to hardball Dunta (which I agreed with) and ended up with a half a** disgruntled whiny DB.

The Vikings were built mainly through FA. As were the Jets.

dalemurphy
02-03-2010, 06:19 AM
It has nothing to do with what kind of man he is. Landry is a legend and was a great man who was known for his faith. But Staubach and many others said he was stubborn about what he wanted done and when players didn't comply he could be known to let his coaches coach while he didn't have to say a word to them. They just knew. You are really just overplaying something that happens quite often. Some guys are screamers and some guys can say a ton by saying nothing.

The way a person treats people, even at work, does say something about the kind of man he is. It's scary, frankly, that a person would argue that isn't so.

By the way, being "a legend" and a "Christian" doesn't shield Tom Landry from criticism for how he handled/treated his players. He was a real SOB and had regrets at the end of his life for his coldness towards them.

dalemurphy
02-03-2010, 06:31 AM
these posts are pretty fun. I'm not going to quote and respond to a mile of posts, so here's some potshots. :fingergun:

Gp's in mourning over a 9-7 season that missed the playoffs by conference tiebreaker. Somebody get that man a hug!

Steelb wants larry johnson who helped the bengals reach the playoffs. The bengals totalled 9 rushing touchdowns this season (6 to benson, 0 to johnson - and 3 go to the quarterback), where as the texans had 13 rushing touchdowns (3 to slaton, 3 to brown - none to the quarterback). We had an absolutely aweful running game this season and the bengals had a great one by their standards. I know it goes against everything "soapers" believe in (attitude, free agency, madden) so i'll give this one for free ... A better arguement would be playing arian foster sooner - more carries, better ypc, and 3 more touchdowns than johnson.

Second honeymoon doesnt like something the texans did, which makes me feel safe knowing all's right in the world.


Here's my 2 cents. I like the extension obviously, and not for the common reasons posted (consistancy, 2011 uncertainty, assistant coaches, free agents). Mcnair emphasized one word twice in my reading of his comments - foundation. This is what kubiak's built. Even in a building season like this one where no fewer than 6 rookies see significant playing time and we acquire hopefully a long-term staple on defense in week 3, we're a tiebreaker away from our first playoff berth. That's the foundation mcnair is focused on, and one we're just now in position to start adding accessories to to reach the next level.

Bone-head calls aside. Management's favoritism aside. Every other flaw with kubiak and mcnair and browns and the ball-boy that the forum agrees upon aside. Isnt this the team we asked for? 5 probowlers under 29 years old? Winning record? A chance at consistancy and realized improvement both now and the forseeable future? We have a foundation built, taught, and coached by kubiak that has nowhere to go but up. If kubiak sticks to his tendancies these next few seasons ... Sticks to players too long, gets a value free agent or few, sits the right guy at the wrong time or doesnt sit the wrong guy at the right time, finds a stud or two in the draft and a handful of good depth picks, brainfarts playcalling a couple times, coaches an elite offense and deligates on defense, and everything else i'm missing ... If those things continue, what's the worst that happens, 8-8? Realistically 9-11 wins? Fortune smiles on us for 12-14 wins?



what he said!

Thorn
02-03-2010, 07:02 AM
***just a notice, fyi, or in case you are interested***

Hey Rookie, Welcome To The NFL is on ESPN2 @ 2:00am CST. Brain Cushing is one of the players they focus on. Really cool show. Didn't want to start a second thread.

Apologies, saw this thread was busy, just trying to help. Carry on. :hides:

Hey! What do you think you are doing? We are far to busy trashing the Texans coaching staff, the players and other posters to be paying attention to stuff like this. Be gone you with that sort of nice news, we don't want to see any of that stuff in here!

HoustonFrog
02-03-2010, 07:04 AM
The way a person treats people, even at work, does say something about the kind of man he is. It's scary, frankly, that a person would argue that isn't so.

By the way, being "a legend" and a "Christian" doesn't shield Tom Landry from criticism for how he handled/treated his players. He was a real SOB and had regrets at the end of his life for his coldness towards them.

What is scary is that you take the game of football so seriously that you live in this lala land where every coach doesn't confront these issues and that Kubes is somehow a Saint of coaches out there. It is the players jobs too and if they aren't doing it or are disrespecting the coach then the coaches have only so many ways they can deal with it. Some use the silent treatment. That isn't disrespectful if it gets a players attention. Some are screamers and get in guys faces. Some try to be calm and talk to the guys. Sometimes it works.

Players get on the field, talk noise, run amok and do things they wouldn't do in the real world. Afterward they shake hands and laugh and some huddle and pray. As many a player and coach has said there is a field persona and an off field persona. They can be separate because it is a game.

Treating someone with respect can sometimes mean saying nothing instead of things you will regret.

WWJD
02-03-2010, 07:36 AM
I can't put the pink soap away..it's all I use..Dove pink. :)

Marcus
02-03-2010, 09:01 AM
these posts are pretty fun. i'm not going to quote and respond to a mile of posts, so here's some potshots. :fingergun:

gp's in mourning over a 9-7 season that missed the playoffs by conference tiebreaker. somebody get that man a hug!

steelb wants larry johnson who helped the bengals reach the playoffs. the bengals totalled 9 rushing touchdowns this season (6 to benson, 0 to johnson - and 3 go to the quarterback), where as the texans had 13 rushing touchdowns (3 to slaton, 3 to brown - none to the quarterback). we had an absolutely aweful running game this season and the bengals had a great one by their standards. i know it goes against everything "soapers" believe in (attitude, free agency, madden) so i'll give this one for free ... a better arguement would be playing arian foster sooner - more carries, better YPC, and 3 more touchdowns than johnson.

second honeymoon doesnt like something the texans did, which makes me feel safe knowing all's right in the world.


here's my 2 cents. i like the extension obviously, and not for the common reasons posted (consistancy, 2011 uncertainty, assistant coaches, free agents). mcnair emphasized one word twice in my reading of his comments - foundation. this is what kubiak's built. even in a building season like this one where no fewer than 6 rookies see significant playing time and we acquire hopefully a long-term staple on defense in week 3, we're a tiebreaker away from our first playoff berth. that's the foundation mcnair is focused on, and one we're just now in position to start adding accessories to to reach the next level.

bone-head calls aside. management's favoritism aside. every other flaw with kubiak and mcnair and browns and the ball-boy that the forum agrees upon aside. isnt this the team we asked for? 5 probowlers under 29 years old? winning record? a chance at consistancy and realized improvement both now and the forseeable future? we have a foundation built, taught, and coached by kubiak that has nowhere to go but up. if kubiak sticks to his tendancies these next few seasons ... sticks to players too long, gets a value free agent or few, sits the right guy at the wrong time or doesnt sit the wrong guy at the right time, finds a stud or two in the draft and a handful of good depth picks, brainfarts playcalling a couple times, coaches an elite offense and deligates on defense, and everything else i'm missing ... if those things continue, what's the worst that happens, 8-8? realistically 9-11 wins? fortune smiles on us for 12-14 wins?

:perfect10:

"You sir are a steely-eyed missleman". Rep!

infantrycak
02-03-2010, 09:08 AM
Wasn't Drew Brees a FA pickup?

The Saints secondary stunk last year. How did they address the problem?

Added Sharper,Greer in FA and drafted Jenkins. Those are bold moves that helped get them in the playoffs.

I sure would like to see the Texans make some moves like this.

I have made clear from the beginning the Texans have made mistakes. My main points were to address McNair being cheap and the kinds of FAs to go after. Drew Brees was a two time probowl FA who only two teams were interested in because of his shoulder surgery.

How is going after Jabari Greer more bold than going after Jacques Reeves?
How is going after Sharper (who had 1 INT and 4 PD's his last year with the Vikes) for a 1 year $1.7 mil contract because many thought he was done such a bold move or a bolder move than going after Eugene Wilson?

How is drafting Jenkins more bold than drafting Cushing?

Joe Texan
02-03-2010, 09:21 AM
Oh Yea I forgive each of you So lets get down to planning to Win some Football Games and put all this I hate the Coach Crap Behind us. Believe me I know you pink soapers Will pop it out as soon as the players hit the showers but We need to focus on the draft and putting a Better team on the feild right now.

Ole Miss Texan
02-03-2010, 09:34 AM
Wasn't Drew Brees a FA pickup?

The Saints secondary stunk last year. How did they address the problem?

Added Sharper,Greer in FA and drafted Jenkins. Those are bold moves that helped get them in the playoffs.

I sure would like to see the Texans make some moves like this. If the Texans had let Dunta walk they could've signed both Sharper and Greer. Instead they chose to hardball Dunta (which I agreed with) and ended up with a half a** disgruntled whiny DB.

The Vikings were built mainly through FA. As were the Jets.

I have made clear from the beginning the Texans have made mistakes. My main points were to address McNair being cheap and the kinds of FAs to go after. Drew Brees was a two time probowl FA who only two teams were interested in because of his shoulder surgery.

How is going after Jabari Greer more bold than going after Jacques Reeves?
How is going after Sharper (who had 1 INT and 4 PD's his last year with the Vikes) for a 1 year $1.7 mil contract because many thought he was done such a bold move or a bolder move than going after Eugene Wilson?

How is drafting Jenkins more bold than drafting Cushing?
Dang, beat me to in infantrycak.

Drew Brees? We traded two 2nd round picks and moved down 2 spots in the 1st round to get Matt Schaub. That was a bold move.

Saints picked up Darren Sharper and signed him to a 1 year $1.7MM deal. Texans went after Eugene Wilson and signed him to a 3 year $11.3MM deal. He was 5 years into the league with 3 Super Bowl appearances and 2 Super Bowl Wins. We wanted a guy in the secondary that had a winning background and successful playoff experience.

Saints picked up Jabari Greer who had previously been with the Bills. Prior years stats were 38 tackles, 7 pass deflections and 2 interception. Signed a 4year $22MM contract with $10MM guaranteed. Texans picked up Jacques Reeves to a 5 year $20MM contract and $8MM gtd. His prior year he had 60 tackles 12 pass deflections and 1 interception.

I'm not saying we got the better deal or that Brees, Sharper, Greer aren't as good as our guys. Not at all:) But as infantrycak pointed out... we had huge needs at QB, FS and CB as well and we DID address them. McNair DID open up his pocket book and go after guys to add to this team.

JB
02-03-2010, 09:38 AM
Dang, beat me to in infantrycak.

Drew Brees? We traded two 2nd round picks and moved down 2 spots in the 1st round to get Matt Schaub. That was a bold move.

Saints picked up Darren Sharper and signed him to a 1 year $1.7MM deal. Texans went after Eugene Wilson and signed him to a 3 year $11.3MM deal. He was 5 years into the league with 3 Super Bowl appearances and 2 Super Bowl Wins. We wanted a guy in the secondary that had a winning background and successful playoff experience.

Saints picked up Jabari Greer who had previously been with the Bills. Prior years stats were 38 tackles, 7 pass deflections and 2 interception. Signed a 4year $22MM contract with $10MM guaranteed. Texans picked up Jacques Reeves to a 5 year $20MM contract and $8MM gtd. His prior year he had 60 tackles 12 pass deflections and 1 interception.

I'm not saying we got the better deal or that Brees, Sharper, Greer aren't as good as our guys. Not at all:) But as infantrycak pointed out... we had huge needs at QB, FS and CB as well and we DID address them. McNair DID open up his pocket book and go after guys to add to this team.

Don't go to using logic or facts around here! What are you trying to do? :kitten:

must spread rep

Second Honeymoon
02-03-2010, 09:41 AM
LOL. Second Honeymoon, I was wondering where you were. Good to see you in this conversation.

And here's the icing on the cake: The invoices for the season ticket holders are starting to roll in this week. McNair wants his first payment - with an increase of course - by the end of this month. Great.

oh, I am well aware of the invoice about to hit the mailbox. was already on the fence about keeping my tickets, this sure didn't help the cause.

as long as Kubiak still gets fired if we miss the playoffs in 2010, I will stomach this move, but if its another blah-blah season of Kubiak screwups, he better get sent to the unemployment line and we better go out and get a legitimate top head coach like Cowher. to be honest, it may not even matter...we probably wont even have a Texans football season in 2011 much less a Kubiak-free Texans football season.

as for my absence, its purely based on the 2 month old little angel that we are raising. its been 7 years since we had our oldest and I think I mentally blocked out how hard it was and how much effort it takes.

Second Honeymoon
02-03-2010, 09:46 AM
Oh Yea I forgive each of you So lets get down to planning to Win some Football Games and put all this I hate the Coach Crap Behind us. Believe me I know you pink soapers Will pop it out as soon as the players hit the showers but We need to focus on the draft and putting a Better team on the feild right now.

JT, I agree with you on that one. We all want the same thing and that is a winner.

We need to use this offseason to set the Texans up to win in 2010 because there isn't going to be football in 2011 from the looks of it...and the 2012 season could be a huge difference in league/competitive structure.

what sucks is that our owner is one of hte hardline owners that wants to make more $$ and share less with the players. that may not work out in our favor competitively.

Scooter
02-03-2010, 09:54 AM
as for my absence, its purely based on the 2 month old little angel that we are raising. its been 7 years since we had our oldest and I think I mentally blocked out how hard it was and how much effort it takes.

congrats on the little one SH.

ArlingtonTexan
02-03-2010, 09:55 AM
I have made clear from the beginning the Texans have made mistakes. My main points were to address McNair being cheap and the kinds of FAs to go after. Drew Brees was a two time probowl FA who only two teams were interested in because of his shoulder surgery.

How is going after Jabari Greer more bold than going after Jacques Reeves?
How is going after Sharper (who had 1 INT and 4 PD's his last year with the Vikes) for a 1 year $1.7 mil contract because many thought he was done such a bold move or a bolder move than going after Eugene Wilson?

How is drafting Jenkins more bold than drafting Cushing?

What he wants is Daniel Synder/Jerry jones type move. Go sign the most name brand player, no matter what it costs, what you think of the player, no matter how he fits into your system. Until we sign a player who carries the perception of being the best player available, then McNair will always be cheap.

BigTimeTexanFan
02-03-2010, 10:13 AM
Why is it automatically assumed that the Texans are going to regress and miss the playoffs next year? Kubiak hasn't taken a step back in his tenure here yet and you could argue that this last season was a huge step foward (even though only a one game improvement in the win column) especially on the defensive side of the ball. I don't get the negativity. They will continue to add to the roster via draft and free agency and improve our team. I just don't see why people are already penciling the Texans in to miss the playoffs when the track record has been steady improvement.

I for one am excited about what the Texans can do this next season.

HoustonFrog
02-03-2010, 10:18 AM
What he wants is Daniel Synder/Jerry jones type move. Go sign the most name brand player, no matter what it costs, what you think of the player, no matter how he fits into your system. Until we sign a player who carries the perception of being the best player available, then McNair will always be cheap.

Let's clear something up because I saw Cak say this too. Jerry Jones in no way, shape or form does what Daniel Snyder does. Not even close. Snyder pulls in the biggest names and throws record contracts at them with no regard to cap, etc. Jerry failed on a Roy Williams trade but in general has been very smart with the cap and money and had brought in quality FAs or has spent almost low money on "flyers" who can be cut when they fail(see PM and Tank). TO was years ago and he didn't even break the bank for that. Last season they went after solid performers who could fit in...Keith Brooking, Igor Olshansky(run stopper who played with SD and Phillips) and Gerald Sensabaugh. They resigned Miles Austin..smartly. Kitna was in there too. All were key contributors this year and all were solid pick ups that made their signings some of the best. Olshansky was key because Chris Canty went to NY. The year before they resigned Flozell and brought in Zach Thomas...that was their splash...well.. Then they brought in PacMan with a cheap contract that allowed him to be gone...and he was. In 2007 they signed Brad Johnson, Martin Gramatica, Leonard Davis and Ken Hamlin. They resigned Andre Gurode and Mat McBriar. This idea that Jones does this every year when most in Dallas have complained about his inactivity is laughable.

steelbtexan
02-03-2010, 10:18 AM
Dang, beat me to in infantrycak.

Drew Brees? We traded two 2nd round picks and moved down 2 spots in the 1st round to get Matt Schaub. That was a bold move.

Saints picked up Darren Sharper and signed him to a 1 year $1.7MM deal. Texans went after Eugene Wilson and signed him to a 3 year $11.3MM deal. He was 5 years into the league with 3 Super Bowl appearances and 2 Super Bowl Wins. We wanted a guy in the secondary that had a winning background and successful playoff experience.

Saints picked up Jabari Greer who had previously been with the Bills. Prior years stats were 38 tackles, 7 pass deflections and 2 interception. Signed a 4year $22MM contract with $10MM guaranteed. Texans picked up Jacques Reeves to a 5 year $20MM contract and $8MM gtd. His prior year he had 60 tackles 12 pass deflections and 1 interception.

I'm not saying we got the better deal or that Brees, Sharper, Greer aren't as good as our guys. Not at all:) But as infantrycak pointed out... we had huge needs at QB, FS and CB as well and we DID address them. McNair DID open up his pocket book and go after guys to add to this team.

You missed my point. The Saints had a problem at DB they addressed the problem. The Texans had problems at S/RB. How did they adress their probem? By signing an UDFA (Foster) and deciding Barber was a starting S and Busing was a suitable backup. They weren't willing to spend $ to get adequate players to fill these positions.

Smithiak got lucky, imagine if K.C. hadn't cut Pollard. The defense that we saw the 1st 3 weeks would've been the norm. Then I bet you would've been singing a different tune.

Greer got hurt last season and that's why his numbers dont look good when compared to Reeves. The Saints took a gamble on Greer and won. They got a no.1 CB at a fair price. Reeves was a good signing but he's nowhere as good a CB as Greer.

Stats dont always tell the whole truth.

Texan_Bill
02-03-2010, 10:20 AM
these posts are pretty fun. i'm not going to quote and respond to a mile of posts, so here's some potshots. :fingergun:

gp's in mourning over a 9-7 season that missed the playoffs by conference tiebreaker. somebody get that man a hug!

steelb wants larry johnson who helped the bengals reach the playoffs. the bengals totalled 9 rushing touchdowns this season (6 to benson, 0 to johnson - and 3 go to the quarterback), where as the texans had 13 rushing touchdowns (3 to slaton, 3 to brown - none to the quarterback). we had an absolutely aweful running game this season and the bengals had a great one by their standards. i know it goes against everything "soapers" believe in (attitude, free agency, madden) so i'll give this one for free ... a better arguement would be playing arian foster sooner - more carries, better YPC, and 3 more touchdowns than johnson.

second honeymoon doesnt like something the texans did, which makes me feel safe knowing all's right in the world.


here's my 2 cents. i like the extension obviously, and not for the common reasons posted (consistancy, 2011 uncertainty, assistant coaches, free agents). mcnair emphasized one word twice in my reading of his comments - foundation. this is what kubiak's built. even in a building season like this one where no fewer than 6 rookies see significant playing time and we acquire hopefully a long-term staple on defense in week 3, we're a tiebreaker away from our first playoff berth. that's the foundation mcnair is focused on, and one we're just now in position to start adding accessories to to reach the next level.

bone-head calls aside. management's favoritism aside. every other flaw with kubiak and mcnair and browns and the ball-boy that the forum agrees upon aside. isnt this the team we asked for? 5 probowlers under 29 years old? winning record? a chance at consistancy and realized improvement both now and the forseeable future? we have a foundation built, taught, and coached by kubiak that has nowhere to go but up. if kubiak sticks to his tendancies these next few seasons ... sticks to players too long, gets a value free agent or few, sits the right guy at the wrong time or doesnt sit the wrong guy at the right time, finds a stud or two in the draft and a handful of good depth picks, brainfarts playcalling a couple times, coaches an elite offense and deligates on defense, and everything else i'm missing ... if those things continue, what's the worst that happens, 8-8? realistically 9-11 wins? fortune smiles on us for 12-14 wins?

Awesome!! Repped.

BigTimeTexanFan
02-03-2010, 10:27 AM
You missed my point. The Saints had a problem at DB they addressed the problem. The Texans had problems at S/RB. How did they adress their probem? By signing an UDFA (Foster) and deciding Barber was a starting S and Busing was a suitable backup. They weren't willing to spend $ to get adequate players to fill these positions.

Smithiak got lucky, imagine if K.C. hadn't cut Pollard. The defense that we saw the 1st 3 weeks would've been the norm. Then I bet you would've been singing a different tune.

Greer got hurt last season and that's why his numbers dont look good when compared to Reeves. The Saints took a gamble on Greer and won. They got a no.1 CB at a fair price. Reeves was a good signing but he's nowhere as good a CB as Greer.

Stats dont always tell the whole truth.

You are wrong here. The Texans didn't have a problem at running back last season (08). They were 13th overall averaging 115.4 ypg for the season with Slaton averaging 4.8 ypc and more than 1200 yards which was good for 6th overall. RB wasn't a problem until THIS year (09) which I'm sure they will address.

Yes the Texans probably got lucky with Pollard but the Saints definately got luck with Sharper. Regardless of luck or not they still adressed the problem.

steelbtexan
02-03-2010, 10:27 AM
Oh Yea I forgive each of you So lets get down to planning to Win some Football Games and put all this I hate the Coach Crap Behind us. Believe me I know you pink soapers Will pop it out as soon as the players hit the showers but We need to focus on the draft and putting a Better team on the feild right now.

I dont hate Kubes. In fact I like him.

I just think he has taken this organization as far as he can. I appreciate all of the hard work he's put in.

McNair disagrees with my position. I hope he's right and I'm wrong.

Although 8 yrs of history has me feeling pretty comfortable about my position.

steelbtexan
02-03-2010, 10:46 AM
You are wrong here. The Texans didn't have a problem at running back last season (08). They were 13th overall averaging 115.4 ypg for the season with Slaton averaging 4.8 ypc which was good for 6th overall. RB wasn't a problem until THIS year (09) which I'm sure they will address.

Yes the Texans probably got lucky with Pollard but the Saints definately got luck with Sharper. Regardless of luck or not they still adressed the problem.

The Texans had a problem with depth at RB and they needed a short yardage RB. They thought C.Brown and Foster were the answer. LOL This choice bit them in the rear.

There is a big difference between the Sharper luck and the Pollard luck.

Sharper luck is, he was signed in FA during the offseason went through TC with the team. The Saints got lucky that Sharper stayed healthy all season. Which is remarkable for a long in the tooth Vet.

The Texans on the other hand didn't address their problems during the offseason. Pollard got cut in the preseason. The Texans elected to wait unti after game 1 to sign him. Pollard wasn't ready to play with the Texans until game 4. This was one of the main reasons the Texans didn't make the playoffs. IMHO They were lucky some other team didn't sign him. If some other team had signed Pollard Kubes would probably be looking for another job instead of getting a contract extention.

Can you see the difference?

Scooter
02-03-2010, 11:08 AM
The Texans had a problem with depth at RB and they needed a short yardage RB. They thought C.Brown and Foster were the answer. LOL This choice bit them in the rear.

There is a big difference between the Sharper luck and the Pollard luck.

Sharper luck is, he was signed in FA during the offseason went through TC with the team. The Saints got lucky that Sharper stayed healthy all season. Which is remarkable for a long in the tooth Vet.

The Texans on the other hand didn't address their problems during the offseason. Pollard got cut in the preseason. The Texans elected to wait unti after game 1 to sign him. Pollard wasn't ready to play with the Texans until game 4. This was one of the main reasons the Texans didn't make the playoffs. IMHO They were lucky some other team didn't sign him. If some other team had signed Pollard Kubes would probably be looking for another job instead of getting a contract extention.

Can you see the difference?

absolutely everything you post is hindsight, and still wrong more often than not. at this point i'm anxious to hear which big free agents are available and who is going to win next year's DROY.

Ole Miss Texan
02-03-2010, 11:13 AM
Luck luck luck. I'm going to preface this with saying I'm a huge Drew Brees fan. I'm just telling it like it is.

2001: Brees was drafted, played in 1 game and lost.
2002-2003: Mediocre as a starter, lost his job to Flutie.
2004: Phillip Rivers draft #4 overall, Brees all but done. River held out forcing SD to play Brees. Brees had a GREAT season and went to the Pro Bowl.
2005: Franchised, had a good season but injured his THROWING shoulder in the last game. Torn ligament, rotator cuff damage... required offseason surgery.
2006: SD was too worried about the injury and offered him an hugely incentive-laden deal. Miami backed out of contract negotions with him because they were worried witht the injury and didn't want to offer him a lot of money. Saints ponied up and gave him a really nice deal with guaranteed money.

Luck goes on with every team and Drew Brees was the best (and luckiest) thing that happened to the Saints in franchise history, in my opinion. We all know Brees has gone on to be very successful. But if his throwing shoulder hadn't fully healed or he had gotten hit on it and injured it again, the Saints franchise would be worse of than when they started. They'd have been in cap hell with no QB, no passing attack and an ineffective #2 overall pick. Their backup QB was a 13 year veteran whose career passing yards were that of DAVID CARR's in '04!

You mentioned something about having to roll the dice on occassion. The Saints certainly did and it was a huge success. We havn't really fared too well in a lot of high dollar FA acquisitions... but hopefully that will change and we'll score a homerun this offseason!!

Ole Miss Texan
02-03-2010, 11:15 AM
at this point i'm anxious to hear which big free agents are available and who is going to win next year's DROY.

I suspect we're going to end up getting some decent guys closer to the season when teams start cutting their players. Not so much the scheduled free agents right now, but some guys that get cut (especially those overpaid).

And [insert Texans 1st/2nd round pick] as next year's DROY.... Earl Thomas anyone!?

infantrycak
02-03-2010, 11:19 AM
This idea that Jones does this every year when most in Dallas have complained about his inactivity is laughable.

JJ doesn't throw money at problems in the same fashion as Snyder but he is attracted to baubles such as Pacman, TO and Roy Williams.

The Texans on the other hand didn't address their problems during the offseason.

Sure they did signing a DE and DT was addressing needs. And we don't know how many free agents the Texans approached but were unable to sign. This may be a tough year for free agents particularly those under 30 years old.

Pollard got cut in the preseason. The Texans elected to wait unti after game 1 to sign him. Pollard wasn't ready to play with the Texans until game 4. This was one of the main reasons the Texans didn't make the playoffs. IMHO They were lucky some other team didn't sign him. If some other team had signed Pollard Kubes would probably be looking for another job instead of getting a contract extention.

There was a report a deal was in place very quickly after the Chiefs let him go and the time delay was him getting a medical clearance to play.

Scooter
02-03-2010, 11:22 AM
I suspect we're going to end up getting some decent guys closer to the season when teams start cutting their players. Not so much the scheduled free agents right now, but some guys that get cut (especially those overpaid).

And [insert Texans 1st/2nd round pick] as next year's DROY.... Earl Thomas anyone!?

lol i was being facetious bud. my jab was at the hindsight club being barely half right after the fact (we should've signed xxxxx!!!), and wanting them to hindsight next season for us.

HoustonFrog
02-03-2010, 11:38 AM
JJ doesn't throw money at problems in the same fashion as Snyder but he is attracted to baubles such as Pacman, TO and Roy Williams.

Yes, he can be. But he has gotten much smarter in FA the last few years. I like how he has resigned his top guys and filled in with some other guys, especially last off season. To tell you the truth, at the time of when it happened, I didn't mind the PM type contract. I didn't like PM or him on the team but the way Jerry set up the contract I was fine with because they allowed them to cut him and not lose much. More of a calculated risk. High risk/High Reward. I think Snyder just sees a top name, no matter position or fit and wants to spend 90-100 mil.

Scooter
02-03-2010, 11:54 AM
Yes, he can be. But he has gotten much smarter in FA the last few years. I like how he has resigned his top guys and filled in with some other guys, especially last off season. To tell you the truth, at the time of when it happened, I didn't mind the PM type contract. I didn't like PM or him on the team but the way Jerry set up the contract I was fine with because they allowed them to cut him and not lose much. More of a calculated risk. High risk/High Reward. I think Snyder just sees a top name, no matter position or fit and wants to spend 90-100 mil.

has JJ gotten smarter (TO, williams), or has he been limited by re-signing success that his coaches have drafted and coached up (ware, newman, romo)? seems to me that the only thing keeping jerry afloat is inspite of himself.

Vinny
02-03-2010, 11:56 AM
wow, every time I miss a day on the net I can always count on a big news event of some sort.

I expected an extention (said so a few weeks ago) so this isn't a shock. I also expected the Kubiak crowd to insult everyone else who isn't a big fan of Kubiak. It reminds me of the Carr era in that regard.

HoustonFrog
02-03-2010, 11:59 AM
has JJ gotten smarter (TO, williams), or has he been limited by re-signing success that his coaches have drafted and coached up (ware, newman, romo)? seems to me that the only thing keeping jerry afloat is inspite of himself.

As I pointed out on the last page they have added more quality guys that are midlevel guys than what people think and have actually been relatively quiet with a few exceptions. Putting him in Snyder's league just doesn't work. Last year they filled needs with Wade guys and got leaders and blue collar guys in the process. Same with the 2 years before. Williams sucks, granted but TO was 4 years ago and he didn't break the bank. I commented on PM and Tank..flyers with no real cap repercussions. The conversation was regarding owners who just throw money at top FAs. Jerry isn't one of them these days and is usually quite smart with the cap and his money.

Texecutioner
02-03-2010, 11:59 AM
absolutely everything you post is hindsight, and still wrong more often than not. at this point i'm anxious to hear which big free agents are available and who is going to win next year's DROY.

It isn't hind sight at all. It's a no brainer. Sharper has been one of the ebst safties in the league for like 10 years now. Pollard, well he was a no name guy that the Chiefs didn't even want and over achieved this year. Hopefully he can have that same play next season, but I wouldn't bet the bank on it. I'm not doubting him either, but Sharper's been a stud with the Packers, the Vikes, and now with the Saints. And lets not forget about the fact that Dawkins was available as well and he had a very big impact on that Denver defense this season. Dawkins was one of the players I wanted most last off season.

And as far as the RB situation, uuummm a few of us were very upset on draft day when we didn't go after another RB in the first 3 rounds. We needed one for depth to play either behind Slaton or to share carries with Slaton and we didn't address that. I was pissed, and I heard a ton of stuff in here about how Jeremiah Johnson was going to be some stud for us and how he was the guy we got and didn't even have to draft him and yada yada. I don't think many expected Slaton to have the season he had this year and expected much more, but regardless now days you need at least two capable backs and the Gary Kubiak thought Chris Brown was capable of being in that role which knocked us out of the playoffs. SteelBTexan is exactly right about what we "didn't" do in the off season as far as addressing to needs.

HOU-TEX
02-03-2010, 12:02 PM
wow, every time I miss a day on the net I can always count on a big news event of some sort.

I expected an extention (said so a few weeks ago) so this isn't a shock. I also expected the Kubiak crowd to insult everyone else who isn't a big fan of Kubiak. It reminds me of the Carr era in that regard.

Personally, I don't consider myself on either side of this debate. That said, the insults have come from both sides, Vinny. Also, I think a lot of flawed logic has come from the "soapers", trying to find more reasons to support their opinion.

In the end, can't we all get along...:grouphug:

Second Honeymoon
02-03-2010, 12:06 PM
has JJ gotten smarter (TO, williams), or has he been limited by re-signing success that his coaches have drafted and coached up (ware, newman, romo)? seems to me that the only thing keeping jerry afloat is inspite of himself.

thanks for the good word on my daughter, scooter. class act.

saying that I didn't like what the Texans are doing is a reason to think they are on the wrong track is pie in the sky thinking imho.

my track record as a Texans fan speaks for itself. hated the david carr pick. validated. hated the travis johnson pick. validated. hated the greenwood signing. validated. hated the weaver signing. validated. hated the Carr re-signing. validated. hated the Richard Smith retention. validated. hated the Chris Myers signing/trade. validated. and many many more. loved the Carr cut and Schaub trade. validated.

myself, vinny, kaisertoro, and a few others were the only people on this board that knew what a pile of crap Carr was while a lot yall had his poster in your high school lockers. i may have an opinion that some of yall dont like, but i know talent and i am not blinded by kool-aid or homerisms.

Kubiak is a .500 coach. that is a fact. almost every coach hired during his hiring has made the playoffs and some even had less to work with than Kubiak did. I will give Kubiak the credit that he plays in Peyton's division, and that is a tough road to hoe dont get me wrong, but at the end of the day its about winning and he hasn't done that. he is .500. period. why extend a guy who is .500? are you afraid of losing him?

kubiak wouldn't get a sniff of another HC job anywhere else. he would be hired instantly as an OC though, and he has done a remarkable job with the offense. he is just a poor motivator and bad at in game decisions and adjustments. abysmally bad. gets outcoached by rookie head coaches. the fact that he called a timeout to let Caldwell take another look at that goalline fumble v. the Colts was my last straw. all he had to do was QB sneak with Schaub and get the play off. If he does that, we win and we are in playoffs. Did you see Ryan (rookie head coach) not let that happen to his team in their game against the Colts. He had Sanchez instantly QB sneak the ball before Caldwell could gather his thoughts and make a decision. They lost the game but that was a big play and showed the difference between a quality coach and a quality head coach. Gary is a quality coach but is sorely lacking in the head coaching department. flatlining performances. aww shucks mentality. can't even watch plays transpire.

Vinny
02-03-2010, 12:08 PM
Personally, I don't consider myself on either side of this debate. That said, the insults have come from both sides, Vinny. Also, I think a lot of flawed logic has come from the "soapers", trying to find more reasons to support their opinion.

In the end, can't we all get along...:grouphug: the so called soapers are talking about the team and giving opinion about the coach. The Kubiak crowd seems to talk more about insulting the posters. That's what I see as similar to the Carr situation. Some goes both ways of course...I expected the extension but I'm not a fan of Kubiak as a HC. I don't know why that has to end up as an personal insult my way. Not saying that happened to me in this thread or anything.

I think that a little heated exchange is good for the place...but not an never ending ongoing insult-fest.

Texecutioner
02-03-2010, 12:09 PM
What's silly is you not being able to recognize how amateurish and childish it is for a grown man to give another grown man the silent treatment. The fact that the team had one good season under him hardly makes him a good coach.

See: Herm Edwards, Eric Mangini.

So what makes Kubes a good coach to you then if you put this type of stigma on Sparano who has had one season where he did an excellent job and another where he went 8-8 which is Kubiak's motto. But to you Gary's this great up and comer, and Sparano is just this one year wonder. I won't sit here and act like Sparano is this great prodigy of a coach or anything, but he has had more success in two years than what Gary has had in 4.

I think with you it doesn't matter who we're talking about really. It's about the logo. If Sparano was the coach of the Texans you'd probably be calling him better than Billicheck and if Kubes was the coach of the Dolphins you'd be acting like he's an average coach in the NFL.

HoustonFrog
02-03-2010, 12:13 PM
the so called soapers are talking about the team and giving opinion about the coach. The Kubiak crowd seems to talk more about insulting the posters. That's what I see as similar to the Carr situation. Some goes both ways of course...I expected the extension but I'm not a fan of Kubiak as a HC. I don't know why that has to end up as an personal insult my way. Not saying that happened to me in this thread or anything.

I think that a little heated exchange is good for the place...but not an never ending ongoing insult-fest.

This. Beat me to it. I haven't seen one soaper or anyone on the fence tell anyone else to eff off, shove soap anywhere or to eat crow about nothing. Yet I've seen it from one side. I've seen alot of good discussion regarding Kubes and McNair and the extension. I don't think it is bad to ask questions and not accept all that is. I also see alot of the same Carr/Sage crowd doing the same thing. But as I have said it is something where everyone has a similar goal and you just wait until the 10 season.

Second Honeymoon
02-03-2010, 12:17 PM
the so called soapers are talking about the team and giving opinion about the coach. The Kubiak crowd seems to talk more about insulting the posters. That's what I see as similar to the Carr situation. Some goes both ways of course...I expected the extension but I'm not a fan of Kubiak as a HC. I don't know why that has to end up as an personal insult my way. Not saying that happened to me in this thread or anything.

I think that a little heated exchange is good for the place...but not an never ending ongoing insult-fest.

Vinny, we don't have to defend ourselves. We were right before and we are going to be right again. It's funny how the same objective fans who panned Carr's ability are the same who are panning Kubiak's ability. maybe we know more than everyone else..or maybe we are just honest with ourselves...probably both.

Kubiak is what he is...

...and definitely not worth extending unless its under the unspoken edict of 'playoffs in 2010 or you are fired'

McNair's mularkey about comparing him to other head coaches is just laughable. if he did that, Gary would be an OC somewhere today and wouldn't still be our head coach. Who was he comparing him to? Tom Cable, Morningwheg(sic), and Kiffin? McNair's act is getting really really really really tired.

*makes walk of shame out to mailbox to look for his season ticket invoice*

SCREW YOU, BOB!!! YOUR PSL HAS DEFEATED ME AGAIN!!! KHAN!!!!

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/ic/blogs/channelsurfing/uploaded_images/khan-787365.jpg

Joe Texan
02-03-2010, 12:18 PM
Oh no the Pink soapers are gathered in the shower again, be careful what yall do in there we have kids watching you.

For you guys to bag on Bob McNair it shows it is your fault not the Mayors fault we lost the Oilers, My god the man spent a billions dollars to give us a football team and you with you pitiful whine want to bag on the Owner like he doesn't want to Win. I think you pink soapers need to move to Tennessee and then stay in your outhouses cause you will not be welcome back in Houston. I think I will call an tell the Texans to look at some of the stupid stuff that is written here. I am so Glad you guys are just dumbass couch potatoes rather than anything to do with the Texans. Enjoy the next 3 years and i am sure you will beat me to the wagon if we move into playoffs. Touting all along that you were onboard from the start, I got news for you you bailed on the owner and coach.

Scooter
02-03-2010, 12:24 PM
yup.

disaacks3
02-03-2010, 12:29 PM
wow, every time I miss a day on the net I can always count on a big news event of some sort.

I expected an extention (said so a few weeks ago) so this isn't a shock. I also expected the Kubiak crowd to insult everyone else who isn't a big fan of Kubiak. It reminds me of the Carr era in that regard. Too many people are reading this as some sort of ringing endorsement of Kubes', when it's anything but.

This is for FA acquisition / Asst. coach hirings, nothing more / nothing less. If anybody thinks that Kubes can go 6-10 next year and keep his job, they are smoking the good stuff.

I'd like nothing more than for Kubes to take us to the promised land, but it still remains to be seen if he's the one to get us there.

Scooter
02-03-2010, 12:32 PM
nope.

HoustonFrog
02-03-2010, 12:34 PM
Too many people are reading this as some sort of ringing endorsement of Kubes', when it's anything but.

This is for FA acquisition / Asst. coach hirings, nothing more / nothing less. If anybody thinks that Kubes can go 6-10 next year and keep his job, they are smoking the good stuff.

I'd like nothing more than for Kubes to take us to the promised land, but it still remains to be seen if he's the one to get us there.

Best post yet.

hope you feel better

Vinny
02-03-2010, 12:37 PM
as an admitted newcomer, have you actually read the posts V? or did you flashback to carr and throw out first reaction?

newcomer? I probably read more posts than most of you guys combined. I'm still the primary moderator here....I just rather talk about the games. This stuff (and threads like it) is just a bunch of circular arguments. I stopped posting in most of them a while back.

Marcus
02-03-2010, 12:39 PM
So only one side is 'insulting' the other, right?

:strangle:

WWJD
02-03-2010, 12:39 PM
Too many people are reading this as some sort of ringing endorsement of Kubes', when it's anything but.

This is for FA acquisition / Asst. coach hirings, nothing more / nothing less. If anybody thinks that Kubes can go 6-10 next year and keep his job, they are smoking the good stuff.

I'd like nothing more than for Kubes to take us to the promised land, but it still remains to be seen if he's the one to get us there.

Hope you are feeling better.

Scooter
02-03-2010, 12:41 PM
okay.

Vinny
02-03-2010, 12:42 PM
i must've misunderstood your post a short while ago about missing the signing, and assumed you havent gone through this thread yet.I just stated that I was busy yesterday and haven't logged on till around lunch time today. :cow:

infantrycak
02-03-2010, 12:49 PM
Personally, I don't consider myself on either side of this debate.

In the end, can't we all get along...:grouphug:

That's pretty much where I am. I'd say there have been plenty of insults from both sides and some pretty creatively one-sided/self-serving/made up/mind reading arguments from both sides as well.

Yankee_In_TX
02-03-2010, 12:50 PM
Can I just gripe about the 790 callers who seem to think the Kubes extension 100% promises to deliver 3-5 years of utter destruction and devasation for the team?!

Who cares? Worst case scenario we suck next year and he gets fired.

Yeah, I've had issues with his coaching. Yeah, I think it has improved as far as clock management and play calling (still lots of room for growth, halfback pass....!).

But as far as this deal *shruh?(

Vinny
02-03-2010, 01:02 PM
So only one side is 'insulting' the other, right?

:strangle:since this is aimed at my quote, let me restate what I said - It reminds me of the Carr era where some guys were dogging Carr while the other side dogged the people who were criticizing Carr. I also said that there it went both ways as far as the insults are going. I actually think that some heated exchanges are good for the place (except when it gets too intolerant on an ongoing basis). I think that about covers it.

Mailman
02-03-2010, 01:11 PM
I am awestruck by the inability of Houston sports fans to think this through rationally. Nothing has changed except that Bob McNair is buying himself some security with the coaching staff. It's his money and it doesn't affect the cap, so why should anyone give a shit?

Gary Kubiak is a solid coach who has rebuilt this franchise into a respectable team on the verge of success. Unless you have a better plan in place, why mess with it? And as others have correctly pointed out, it's a good move because it cultivates chemistry and stability at a time when the NFL is heading for a showdown between the NFLPA and the owners.

IMO this news is just being used as an opportunity for the frustrated football fans in Houston to ***** about being frustrated.

dalemurphy
02-03-2010, 01:15 PM
It isn't hind sight at all. It's a no brainer. Sharper has been one of the ebst safties in the league for like 10 years now. Pollard, well he was a no name guy that the Chiefs didn't even want and over achieved this year. Hopefully he can have that same play next season, but I wouldn't bet the bank on it. I'm not doubting him either, but Sharper's been a stud with the Packers, the Vikes, and now with the Saints. And lets not forget about the fact that Dawkins was available as well and he had a very big impact on that Denver defense this season. Dawkins was one of the players I wanted most last off season.

And as far as the RB situation, uuummm a few of us were very upset on draft day when we didn't go after another RB in the first 3 rounds. We needed one for depth to play either behind Slaton or to share carries with Slaton and we didn't address that. I was pissed, and I heard a ton of stuff in here about how Jeremiah Johnson was going to be some stud for us and how he was the guy we got and didn't even have to draft him and yada yada. I don't think many expected Slaton to have the season he had this year and expected much more, but regardless now days you need at least two capable backs and the Gary Kubiak thought Chris Brown was capable of being in that role which knocked us out of the playoffs. SteelBTexan is exactly right about what we "didn't" do in the off season as far as addressing to needs.



Dawkins and Sharper are in their mid 30s and are basically slow-footed free safeties at this point. We already had Eugene Wilson, who plays the same position, and is about 5 years younger. You would've torn up the Texans organization if they'd signed a 35 year old DB and the player got injured and never contributed. That being said, you are right that they should've signed at least one free agent safety in the off-season. It was a severe miscalculation on their part.

Pollard is 26 years old and was a 2nd round draft pick. He was a good player for a very bad KC defense. So, I'm not sure where this "no name" business comes from. He was released because of the regime change not because of his on-field performance.

The Texans needed another RB and would've drafted one if it made sense. Instead of standing pat in the 3rd round, they could've traded up and taken Shonn Greene or Coffee, I suppose. However, they would then have an even greater deficit on the interior OL (no Caldwell) and may have missed out on someone like G.Quin (certainly another position of need). They had lots of needs and addressed many of them. I'm not sure why you continue to harp on the RB position. If they didn't have needs at : LB, DE, DT, OG/OC, CB, S.. then I'm sure they would've gotten to it. This season, since they need less, I'm sure they will adequately address the RB position.

Blake
02-03-2010, 01:26 PM
Why would you extend a HC in their last year of a contract, who should be fired IF they have another losing season?

Smells alot like the David Carr extension.

We are too nice as an organization...

dalemurphy
02-03-2010, 01:27 PM
So what makes Kubes a good coach to you then if you put this type of stigma on Sparano who has had one season where he did an excellent job and another where he went 8-8 which is Kubiak's motto. But to you Gary's this great up and comer, and Sparano is just this one year wonder. I won't sit here and act like Sparano is this great prodigy of a coach or anything, but he has had more success in two years than what Gary has had in 4.

I think with you it doesn't matter who we're talking about really. It's about the logo. If Sparano was the coach of the Texans you'd probably be calling him better than Billicheck and if Kubes was the coach of the Dolphins you'd be acting like he's an average coach in the NFL.

My point is that one good NFL season doesn't prove a coach to be a good one. Furthermore, one can look beyond the record and see how a coach carries himself, handles situations, etc... and learn more about his ability to coach or not. It's not as simple as, "oh 6-10, bad coach. 11-5, good coach". Who knows if Jim Caldwell is a good NFL head coach or not. I bring up Sparano because some of you compare Kubiak to him because of his one year turnaround in 2008.

I'm not convinced that Kubiak is among the upper echelon of NFL head coaches. I believe it was the best thing for this organization for him to stay. I think the fact that the players consistently play hard for him is a good sign. I also think he has done a very good job remaking this roster. So, I am encouraged with him. And, I genuinely like him.

HoustonFrog
02-03-2010, 01:30 PM
My point is that one good NFL season doesn't prove a coach to be a good one. Furthermore, one can look beyond the record and see how a coach carries himself, handles situations, etc... and learn more about his ability to coach or not. It's not as simple as, "oh 6-10, bad coach. 11-5, good coach". Who knows if Jim Caldwell is a good NFL head coach or not. I bring up Sparano because some of you compare Kubiak to him because of his one year turnaround in 2008.

I'm not convinced that Kubiak is among the upper echelon of NFL head coaches. I believe it was the best thing for this organization for him to stay. I think the fact that the players consistently play hard for him is a good sign. I also think he has done a very good job remaking this roster. So, I am encouraged with him. And, I genuinely like him.

I think the bolded is where alot of the debate happens. People are confused why they are so flat some losing games and step up with things on the line. Last season they maybe played 1 complete game. Maybe it is the difference between hard and smart. Who knows. I'll let it lie.

Mailman
02-03-2010, 01:37 PM
There can be no argument that the Texans have improved every year under Kubiak's leadership. Since they dumped HWWNBN and traded for Matt Schaub in 2007, the Texans have finished finished .500 or better all three seasons.

Here's the list of teams that have done that, with wins in reverse chronological order:

Arizona 10, 9, 8
Dallas 11, 9, 13
Indy 14, 12, 13
Minn 12, 10, 8
NE 10, 11, 16
NYG 8, 12, 10
Phil 11, 9, 8
Pitt 9, 12, 10
SD 13, 8, 11
Tenn 8, 13, 10
Hou 9, 8, 8

Of those teams, only Jim Caldwell, Mike Tomlin, and Ken Whisenhunt have less NFL head coaching experience than Gary Kubiak. Yes, Gary Kubiak is the only coach on that list that hasn't made the playoffs, but I don't think it's completely fair to judge his performance as a head coach based on that fact alone. He has done a good job overall or the Texans wouldn't be included here. On the other hand, he's failed because the Texans haven't cashed in on their potential yet.

I don't think Kubiak's coaching or leadership skills are eclipsed by Ken Whisenhunt, he's simply a victim of circumstance in the form of the AFC South. Put the Texans in the NFC West and they win twelve games a year. The AFC South is the best division in football. It frustrates me that this team can't win those important divisional games, but I'm not convinced that a head coaching change would rectify this. Players gotta lead on the field and learn how to close out games.

Mailman
02-03-2010, 01:39 PM
Why would you extend a HC in their last year of a contract, who should be fired IF they have another losing season?

Smells alot like the David Carr extension.

We are too nice as an organization...

Because no owner wants to have his team saddled with the distractions of a coach in a lame duck year.

The Carr comparison isn't close to relevant. Player contracts count against the cap. Coach contracts don't.

HOU-TEX
02-03-2010, 01:44 PM
the so called soapers are talking about the team and giving opinion about the coach. The Kubiak crowd seems to talk more about insulting the posters. That's what I see as similar to the Carr situation. Some goes both ways of course...I expected the extension but I'm not a fan of Kubiak as a HC. I don't know why that has to end up as an personal insult my way. Not saying that happened to me in this thread or anything.

I think that a little heated exchange is good for the place...but not an never ending ongoing insult-fest.

I made a post in one of TC's threads that I was under the impression the new coaches were probably informed Kubiak was getting extended, which likely solidified their decisions to come here. So, I was expecting it as well. I'm neither happy or unhappy about it because there ain't diddly I can do about it. I just want to win regardless of who's coaching/playing. This City needs it!

newcomer? I probably read more posts than most of you guys combined. I'm still the primary moderator here....I just rather talk about the games. This stuff (and threads like it) is just a bunch of circular arguments. I stopped posting in most of them a while back.

Me too, my friend, me too.

infantrycak
02-03-2010, 01:45 PM
Why would you extend a HC in their last year of a contract, who should be fired IF they have another losing season?

Smells alot like the David Carr extension.

We are too nice as an organization...

I see where Vinny compares the discussion to the HWWNBN discussions but in terms of merits there is one giant difference.

HWWNBN was getting worse v. the Texans have improved every year under Kubiak and the debate is the speed of that improvement.

Vinny
02-03-2010, 01:51 PM
I see where Vinny compares the discussion to the HWWNBN discussions but in terms of merits there is one giant difference.

HWWNBN was getting worse v. the Texans have improved every year under Kubiak and the debate is the speed of that improvement.
I know you 'get it' but just to clarify, what I see as a comparison is the fan reaction/behavior as similar in both scenarios. One segment really doesn't care for the player/coach and another fan segment is super defensive and instead of making good arguments about how to defend their opinion, they just infer that the people who don't share their opinion are idiots.

Blake
02-03-2010, 01:57 PM
Because no owner wants to have his team saddled with the distractions of a coach in a lame duck year.

The Carr comparison isn't close to relevant. Player contracts count against the cap. Coach contracts don't.

I guess you are right. Why would McNair care about having to pay Kubiak any guaranteed money if he decided to fire him after this season since he can just take it out of our asses in ticket prices and concessions.

Texan_Bill
02-03-2010, 01:58 PM
I guess you are right. Why would McNair care about having to pay Kubiak any guaranteed money if he decided to fire him after this season since he can just take it out of our asses in ticket prices and concessions.

I just recieved my invoice. :bat:

Dutchrudder
02-03-2010, 02:01 PM
This thread is 11 pages long, so I haven't read anything beyond the last two pages, but this question goes out to the Kubiak haters.

Who would you replace Kubiak with? (be specific)

Promote someone within the current organization? Pull a potential HC away from another team? Lure John Gruden away for 12 million a year? Who would be better than Kubiak?

dalemurphy
02-03-2010, 02:03 PM
This thread is 11 pages long, so I haven't read anything beyond the last two pages, but this question goes out to the Kubiak haters.

Who would you replace Kubiak with? (be specific)

Promote someone within the current organization? Pull a potential HC away from another team? Lure John Gruden away for 12 million a year? Who would be better than Kubiak?

Don't ask that! They don't like that question!

b0ng
02-03-2010, 02:05 PM
I see one side of fans making the most hyperbole filled and insulting posts twoards one of the staff of the Houston Texans. When the opposing opinion comes out and says "No he's okay" we get the first set of fans saying "You're persecuting me as a fan!"

People are getting defensive about having their opinions questioned on all fronts not one.

GP
02-03-2010, 02:11 PM
Don't ask that! They don't like that question!

People have said who they would like to look at.

I personally don't think Gruden would suffice. I don't think Cowher has the energy he once had--Would be a similar scenario as we saw with Jimmy Johnson going to the Dolphins, IMO.

I would like a coach who took a college program, and turned that program around from an unknown into the champion of its conference. Because that, to me, signifies that the coach is a true HEAD COACH in the sense of the word. He has a track record of taking all the little bits and pieces and rallying everyone to the point of taking his conference by storm.

Some of you act like there are literally only 4 good head coaches who are still alive out there.

I'll take someone who JUST rallied his team from being a mere unknown to being the type of team that waxed its opponents and spanked its conference rivals. I would take someone who has that sort of energy, confidence, and track record of success.

Joe Texan
02-03-2010, 02:16 PM
I am not against judging Kubes by his performances and it has been said that Bob has him on the bubble. I am just happy the deal went down cause I thought it would get rid of the pink soapers, guess I was wrong, there is always a few Bad apples in the bunch.

That being said for you guys who want to Rag on Bob McNair, you will hear my opinion every time cause he is a Houston Hero and you who want to drag him down will have to drag me down with him.

Dutchrudder
02-03-2010, 02:18 PM
People have said who they would like to look at.

I personally don't think Gruden would suffice. I don't think Cowher has the energy he once had--Would be a similar scenario as we saw with Jimmy Johnson going to the Dolphins, IMO.

I would like a coach who took a college program, and turned that program around from an unknown into the champion of its conference. Because that, to me, signifies that the coach is a true HEAD COACH in the sense of the word. He has a track record of taking all the little bits and pieces and rallying everyone to the point of taking his conference by storm.

Some of you act like there are literally only 4 good head coaches who are still alive out there.

I'll take someone who JUST rallied his team from being a mere unknown to being the type of team that waxed its opponents and spanked its conference rivals. I would take someone who has that sort of energy, confidence, and track record of success.

So you're suggesting guys like Pete Carrol, Bob Stoops, Nick Saban or that guy from Stanford? (I think its Harbaugh?)

Grams
02-03-2010, 02:52 PM
:popcorn:

HoustonFrog
02-03-2010, 03:14 PM
This thread is 11 pages long, so I haven't read anything beyond the last two pages, but this question goes out to the Kubiak haters.

Who would you replace Kubiak with? (be specific)

Promote someone within the current organization? Pull a potential HC away from another team? Lure John Gruden away for 12 million a year? Who would be better than Kubiak?

1) Kubiak hater is such a misused term. Almost everyone likes Kubiak and agrees he is a good man. Basically we are team realists who just want to point out the deficiencies to those who think everything is constantly hunky dory(sp?). Nothing wrong with questioning the status quo.

2) It has been quoted in many places that Cowher liked this situation. It was said, if he coached, this would be a place where he would come. Why not ask? Also, if you went coordinator, I think Zimmer, the D Coordinator at Cincy would do a great job. Players respect and like him. He is no nonsense and, from what I read in Dallas and Cincy, holds guys accountable, something I think is missing here. But overall, many people weren't specifically saying Kubes needed to be fired right away. Just held accountable where people stop acting like similar records with better systems is acceptable. I won't repeat it again but guys that were with KC before Schottenheimer got there said they thought they were always right there but couldn't get there. When he came in they realized the discipline they lacked. Some think that might be the case here.

Don't ask that! They don't like that question!

No, we like the question. Some just don't like to read and are too busy writing out their next response.

Texan_Bill
02-03-2010, 03:20 PM
From Honoring Earl's record collection:

You spin me right round baby, right round.
Like a record baby, right round.
Round, round.

You spin me right round baby, right round.
Like a record baby, right round.
Round, round.

:gun:

dalemurphy
02-03-2010, 04:07 PM
1) Kubiak hater is such a misused term. Almost everyone likes Kubiak and agrees he is a good man. Basically we are team realists who just want to point out the deficiencies to those who think everything is constantly hunky dory(sp?). Nothing wrong with questioning the status quo.

2) It has been quoted in many places that Cowher liked this situation. It was said, if he coached, this would be a place where he would come. Why not ask? Also, if you went coordinator, I think Zimmer, the D Coordinator at Cincy would do a great job. Players respect and like him. He is no nonsense and, from what I read in Dallas and Cincy, holds guys accountable, something I think is missing here. But overall, many people weren't specifically saying Kubes needed to be fired right away. Just held accountable where people stop acting like similar records with better systems is acceptable. I won't repeat it again but guys that were with KC before Schottenheimer got there said they thought they were always right there but couldn't get there. When he came in they realized the discipline they lacked. Some think that might be the case here.



No, we like the question. Some just don't like to read and are too busy writing out their next response.


So, you named two guys... Cowher won't take the job. He wasn't going to coach anywhere this year unless Carolina became available.

So, the one remaining name:

Mike Zimmer! You really would want to turn this organization upside down in order to give Mike Zimmer the head coaching job? Well, that's an answer, I suppose.

I really don't understand this belief that Kubiak doesn't hold players accountable?
Mike Zimmer is the guy that continued to trot Roy Williams onto the field for years in Dallas despite the fact that he was undisciplined, sloppy safety and was known for his lack of work ethic... Then, when Zimmer went to Cincy and Roy Williams was released from Dallas, he signed him and plugged him into the starting defense. ( this is the kind of accountability you are looking for? )

Double Barrel
02-03-2010, 04:16 PM
I'm just curious, but where do some of y'all get the idea that Kubiak will lose his job if we don't make the playoffs in 2010? Is this just speculation on your part, or is there something mentioned or implied by McNair that justifies this perspective?

McNair's history tends to reveal an owner that is more about the patient, benefit of the doubt decisions than any sort of knee-jerk reaction. I honestly don't think Kubiak will lose his job in 2010 without some sort of catastrophic meltdown akin to 2-14. This is clearly McNair's M.O., so I was wondering about the many comments that Kubiak is still on the so-called "hot seat" in 2010.

p.s. this post is not intended to reflect joy or displeasure with the extension. It is what it is, so I'm just asking if I have missed something from McNair or if fans are speculating as fans are prone to do sometimes.

steelbtexan
02-03-2010, 04:17 PM
absolutely everything you post is hindsight, and still wrong more often than not. at this point i'm anxious to hear which big free agents are available and who is going to win next year's DROY.

No Greer has always been a better DB than Reeves.

It isn't hondsight to know that depth and or an upgrade was needed during TC . In fact if /kubes didn't see this it makes me ask ? about his judgement.

DROY in 2010 Relondo McClain, I called it now. I'm not going to look it up at the end of next season but I will remind you.

Mailman
02-03-2010, 04:21 PM
I'm just curious, but where do some of y'all get the idea that Kubiak will lose his job if we don't make the playoffs in 2010? Is this just speculation on your part, or is there something mentioned or implied by McNair that justifies this perspective?

I have the same question. It is not a foregone conclusion that next year is "playoffs or the unemployment line" for Kubiak. If the team regresses then it's more likely to happen than not, but it is false to assume that his fate would solely be determined by a playoff appearance.

As always, it depends on the circumstances (i.e. injuries to key players) and how the team responds.

Texan_Bill
02-03-2010, 04:32 PM
I have the same question. It is not a foregone conclusion that next year is "playoffs or the unemployment line" for Kubiak. If the team regresses then it's more likely to happen than not, but it is false to assume that his fate would solely be determined by a playoff appearance.

As always, it depends on the circumstances (i.e. injuries to key players) and how the team responds.

Exactly. What happens if the Texans go 8-8, but without the services of AJ, Cush and say Pollard for a good chunk of the season??

There are so many variables that go into the equation, it's blanketly naive to throw out the "Kubiak will fired if they have another 8-8 or don't make the play offs" assertions.

HoustonFrog
02-03-2010, 04:36 PM
So, you named two guys... Cowher won't take the job. He wasn't going to coach anywhere this year unless Carolina became available.

So, the one remaining name:

Mike Zimmer! You really would want to turn this organization upside down in order to give Mike Zimmer the head coaching job? Well, that's an answer, I suppose.

I really don't understand this belief that Kubiak doesn't hold players accountable?
Mike Zimmer is the guy that continued to trot Roy Williams onto the field for years in Dallas despite the fact that he was undisciplined, sloppy safety and was known for his lack of work ethic... Then, when Zimmer went to Cincy and Roy Williams was released from Dallas, he signed him and plugged him into the starting defense. ( this is the kind of accountability you are looking for? )

1) Your answer on Cowher is something you read months and months ago which is wrong and dated. That changed down the road. He told people that he had multiple destinations that he would listen to...one being Houston. The only reason he decided this year was a bad one was because all 3-4 of those places had coaches in place or ones that were resigning. You don't know until you ask.

2) Zimmer led the #1 defense in the league while in Dallas. Roy Williams played because they made due with him. They had nothing else. He has completely installed a new attitude into Cincys team and they turned around. It is a guy who I think will be successful and has discipline.

This is why people won't debate with you. You make ignorant blanket statements that "THEY don't like answering that question." Then when people do you attack full bore like there is no possible way anyone would take the job or be better than Kubiak. Under your theory, its Kubiak or we are screwed.

Texecutioner
02-03-2010, 04:38 PM
So, you named two guys... Cowher won't take the job. He wasn't going to coach anywhere this year unless Carolina became available.

You don't have anything to support this claim and you clearly are not aware of plenty of the things that he said and did in order to get ready to coach. It's no secret that he mentioned that the Bears job and the Texans job would have been very interesting jobs "if they opened up." That right there said he had interest in those jobs. Neither of them opened up though, so there goes that. The Texans job would have been the most appealing job in all of the NFL actually.

It was reported that Cowher even went out and started assembling a coaching staff to coach next season. He was clearly preparing to take a job. If he only wanted to coach in Carolina he wouldn't have interviewed and negotiated things with Buffalo for one and he did. He didn't like what he heard from the owner which is no surprise and it was reported that Cowher wasn't confident that the owner would be competitive in bringing in the personal player wise to compete. Cowher was smart for not taking that job.

He never had any plans about that Carolina job and that's easily been the most overrated story in the past two off seasons. Fox was NOT going to get fired for one, and I even posted an article about this in here that explained it all. Carolina was not in any position to fire Fox because it would have costed them a ton of money and they have all sorts of cap problems right now. Cowher to Carolina was never going to happen and he knew that.

Bill Cowher is no dummy and he wants to coach right now, but he's not going to just coach anywhere. He's been sitting back patiently and waiting for the right spot to open up where he can "cherry pick" the perfect situation for him. He knows that he's the most sought after coach out there right now by far, so he can confidently wait.

And it's been reported that he's got a great relationship with the family that owns the Giants and that he's most likely waiting to see what happens with Coughlin next year. If the Giants under achieve again Coughlin will most likely be fired and Cowher will go there. That's a big time job right there that Cowher would surely be interested in.

As far as the Texans job is concerned there is no question in my mind that he would have been interested in that job and the fact that he said that he would be interested pretty much confirms that.

WWJD
02-03-2010, 04:43 PM
I have read several places and heard discussed on ESPN radio that Cowher will most likely be the Giants next coach. Who knows? Speculation but he was available....

The Pencil Neck
02-03-2010, 04:48 PM
People have said who they would like to look at.

I personally don't think Gruden would suffice. I don't think Cowher has the energy he once had--Would be a similar scenario as we saw with Jimmy Johnson going to the Dolphins, IMO.

I would like a coach who took a college program, and turned that program around from an unknown into the champion of its conference. Because that, to me, signifies that the coach is a true HEAD COACH in the sense of the word. He has a track record of taking all the little bits and pieces and rallying everyone to the point of taking his conference by storm.

Some of you act like there are literally only 4 good head coaches who are still alive out there.

I'll take someone who JUST rallied his team from being a mere unknown to being the type of team that waxed its opponents and spanked its conference rivals. I would take someone who has that sort of energy, confidence, and track record of success.

Personally, I think if you look at coaches who are successful in terms of winning a Super Bowl, they were either head coaches who got fired (or left) from another place where they didn't win a SB (Gruden, Dungy, Coughlin, Belichik, Vermiel) or they were assistants who finally got their chance (Billick, Tomlin).

I wouldn't like a college coach, no matter how successful in college. And I don't want a coach that's already won a Super Bowl (because no HC has ever won a SB with two different teams.)

If we fired Kubiak, our best bet would be some guy who a lot of people on this board wouldn't like. Like a Romeo Crennel or a Marty Schottenheimer or something.

Ole Miss Texan
02-03-2010, 04:53 PM
I'd rather have Chris Brown at RB than Roy Williams at S. :chili:

Texan_Bill
02-03-2010, 04:55 PM
I'd rather have Chris Brown at RB than Roy Williams at S. :chili:

The real question is would you rather have Roy Williams as WR or Roy Williams at S?? :worm:

Dutchrudder
02-03-2010, 04:55 PM
1) Kubiak hater is such a misused term. Almost everyone likes Kubiak and agrees he is a good man. Basically we are team realists who just want to point out the deficiencies to those who think everything is constantly hunky dory(sp?). Nothing wrong with questioning the status quo.

2) It has been quoted in many places that Cowher liked this situation. It was said, if he coached, this would be a place where he would come. Why not ask? Also, if you went coordinator, I think Zimmer, the D Coordinator at Cincy would do a great job. Players respect and like him. He is no nonsense and, from what I read in Dallas and Cincy, holds guys accountable, something I think is missing here. But overall, many people weren't specifically saying Kubes needed to be fired right away. Just held accountable where people stop acting like similar records with better systems is acceptable. I won't repeat it again but guys that were with KC before Schottenheimer got there said they thought they were always right there but couldn't get there. When he came in they realized the discipline they lacked. Some think that might be the case here.



No, we like the question. Some just don't like to read and are too busy writing out their next response.

1. 'Kubiak hater' is probably not the best way to describe it, but you know what I mean by it. I would imagine that even the most adamant critic of Kubiak wouldn't wish cancer and boils upon him. I suppose we could start a new term called "Kubiak Kritics", but that sounds kind of lame... :foottap:

2a. Cowher would make a great coach in just about any organization. If the Texans had fired Kubiak after this season ended, I certainly would have had him atop my coaching wish-list. However, without that vacancy it's difficult to gauge the actual interest of potential candidates. I think Cowher could have been snagged this offseason had McNair gone that route. Whatever organizational changes made to accommodate him would have been acceptable due to the intangibles he brings with him. Confidence, respect, hype, national interest, fear - all things currently lacking with Kubiak.

2b. Zimmer I'm sure will make a good HC someday, but I don't think he's ready to leave his post in Cincy. If I remember correctly he declined to interview for the Bills job, but that is the Bills... maybe he would have been more inclined to interview with the Texans instead.

Thorn
02-03-2010, 05:23 PM
I'm just curious, but where do some of y'all get the idea that Kubiak will lose his job if we don't make the playoffs in 2010? Is this just speculation on your part, or is there something mentioned or implied by McNair that justifies this perspective?

There is nothing written in stone that Kubiak will get fired if we don't make the playoffs.

Let's say Schaub and our backup QBs go down for the year in pre-season and we have to play all year with a scrub starting at QB. And in a few more injuries in key postions and the Texans could very well win three to five games next year. Will Kubiak get fired because of that? I doubt it seriously.

Now let's say we stay healthy all year and and play well but continue to lose games at the last second we should have won. Well then, Kubiak might be in trouble then.

My point is, you just can't make a flat statement Kubiak is history if he doesn't make the playoffs.

We still have free agency, the draft, and pre-season to go before you can start to make sensible predictions about next year.

Silver Oak
02-03-2010, 05:29 PM
wow, every time I miss a day on the net I can always count on a big news event of some sort.

I expected an extention (said so a few weeks ago) so this isn't a shock. I also expected the Kubiak crowd to insult everyone else who isn't a big fan of Kubiak. It reminds me of the Carr era in that regard.

go back and look at some of SH's recent posts, then we can revisit this one side business you're pitching here.

Kaiser Toro
02-03-2010, 05:47 PM
Tigers love cinnamon

dalemurphy
02-03-2010, 05:52 PM
You don't have anything to support this claim and you clearly are not aware of plenty of the things that he said and did in order to get ready to coach. It's no secret that he mentioned that the Bears job and the Texans job would have been very interesting jobs "if they opened up." That right there said he had interest in those jobs. Neither of them opened up though, so there goes that. The Texans job would have been the most appealing job in all of the NFL actually.
It was reported that Cowher even went out and started assembling a coaching staff to coach next season. He was clearly preparing to take a job. If he only wanted to coach in Carolina he wouldn't have interviewed and negotiated things with Buffalo for one and he did. He didn't like what he heard from the owner which is no surprise and it was reported that Cowher wasn't confident that the owner would be competitive in bringing in the personal player wise to compete. Cowher was smart for not taking that job.

He never had any plans about that Carolina job and that's easily been the most overrated story in the past two off seasons. Fox was NOT going to get fired for one, and I even posted an article about this in here that explained it all. Carolina was not in any position to fire Fox because it would have costed them a ton of money and they have all sorts of cap problems right now. Cowher to Carolina was never going to happen and he knew that.

Bill Cowher is no dummy and he wants to coach right now, but he's not going to just coach anywhere. He's been sitting back patiently and waiting for the right spot to open up where he can "cherry pick" the perfect situation for him. He knows that he's the most sought after coach out there right now by far, so he can confidently wait.

And it's been reported that he's got a great relationship with the family that owns the Giants and that he's most likely waiting to see what happens with Coughlin next year. If the Giants under achieve again Coughlin will most likely be fired and Cowher will go there. That's a big time job right there that Coughlin would surely be interested in.

As far as the Texans job is concerned there is no question in my mind that he would have been interested in that job and the fact that he said that he would be interested pretty much confirms that.


Pat Kirwin, whom I respect, usually does not make overreaching statements. He has insisted that Bill Cowher was not going to coach in 2010. Furthermore, he said he knows this because he has inside information and is friends with him. Of course I don't know with absolute certainty.

It's also rather naive to argue that a coach who goes to speak with ownership neccessarily has interest in the job. That kind of misdirection is done all the time for a multitude of reasons... perhaps simply as a favor to Ralph Wilson.

I wasn't suggesting that he was likely to coach in Carolina, only that with his committment to his family, that would be the only place he'd willingly coach in 2010. Again, this is information gleaned primarily from Pat Kirwin on sirius radio.

By the way, how do you know Bob McNair didn't speak privately with Cowher about coaching the Texans? Perhaps McNair was willing to let Kubiak go if he had the right replacement? Do you have direct knowledge that this wasn't the case?

steelbtexan
02-03-2010, 05:53 PM
JJ doesn't throw money at problems in the same fashion as Snyder but he is attracted to baubles such as Pacman, TO and Roy Williams.



Sure they did signing a DE and DT was addressing needs. And we don't know how many free agents the Texans approached but were unable to sign. This may be a tough year for free agents particularly those under 30 years old.



There was a report a deal was in place very quickly after the Chiefs let him go and the time delay was him getting a medical clearance to play.

They addresed there depth isuues in the secondary and short yardage RB adequately

Signed John Busing/Chris Brown

Do you have a link to the Pollard medical clearance?

I may have issues with the Texans medical staff if it took 2 weeks to get medical clearance for Pollard to join the Texans.

Marcus
02-03-2010, 05:57 PM
I'm just curious, but where do some of y'all get the idea that Kubiak will lose his job if we don't make the playoffs in 2010? Is this just speculation on your part, or is there something mentioned or implied by McNair that justifies this perspective?

There was nothing of any sort implied by McNair.

It's nothing but wishful thinking tinged with empty threats.

steelbtexan
02-03-2010, 06:09 PM
So, you named two guys... Cowher won't take the job. He wasn't going to coach anywhere this year unless Carolina became available.

So, the one remaining name:

Mike Zimmer! You really would want to turn this organization upside down in order to give Mike Zimmer the head coaching job? Well, that's an answer, I suppose.

I really don't understand this belief that Kubiak doesn't hold players accountable?
Mike Zimmer is the guy that continued to trot Roy Williams onto the field for years in Dallas despite the fact that he was undisciplined, sloppy safety and was known for his lack of work ethic... Then, when Zimmer went to Cincy and Roy Williams was released from Dallas, he signed him and plugged him into the starting defense. ( this is the kind of accountability you are looking for? )

Super Bowl winning Brian Bilick (SP) Jim Harbaugh, Rob Ryan,Zimmer to name a few

I dont know who will be available after next season. I wasn't against bringing Kubes back next season. I was against the extention. He has done nothing to earn an extention. If you are fine with 8-8,8-8,9-7 mediocrity then he doesn't deserve an extention. I'm not in this group. I exellence, that may be too much to expect from a McNair run organization.

Mailman
02-03-2010, 06:30 PM
Super Bowl winning Brian Bilick (SP)

I dont know who will be available after next season. I wasn't against bringing Kubes back next season. I was against the extention. He has done nothing to earn an extention. If you are fine with 8-8,8-8,9-7 mediocrity then he doesn't deserve an extention. I'm not in this group. I exellence, that may be too much to expect from a McNair run organization.

Well, it's not exactly an appointment to the federal judiciary. Why do you care that he got an extension when it won't affect the salary cap? This is good for the team NEXT YEAR. If they regress without cause, Kubes is probably gone anyway, so the extension is not that big of a deal.

Mailman
02-03-2010, 06:38 PM
If you are fine with 8-8,8-8,9-7 mediocrity then he doesn't deserve an extention. I'm not in this group. I exellence, that may be too much to expect from a McNair run organization.

Oh, come the fugg on! That is ridiculous. This is where y'all drive me nuts and get me pissed off.

One can justifiably defend the last three years without being "fine with mediocrity." That is just idiotic.

Go look at the list I posted upthread of teams that have won at least 8 games each of the last three years. There are only eleven teams out of thirty that have managed that accomplishment, so it's not exactly fair to characterize the team's performance in such a negative light. 11/30!

Yeah, they're the only team of that bunch that hasn't made the playoffs, but they also haven't regressed, either. And they play in arguably the toughest division in the NFL with maybe the greatest quarterback of all time.