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View Full Version : Why do we keep beating ourselves? ? ?


thunderkyss
01-24-2010, 12:21 PM
This is a question for the Sunshine Klub... I know what you Soapers think.

But Sunshine Klub (the K makes it kewl), how long have we been saying that WE are losing these games. That our boneheaded mistakes are costing us games?

I remember that's what we said last year, and the year before.

What needs to happen?

Goatcheese
01-24-2010, 04:22 PM
What needs to happen?

They need to get stronger up front. Smithiak can have linemen who weigh 180lbs. for all I care, as long as they aren't getting pushed around.

Our super athletic O-line got 3 kicks blocked, and countless runs blown up in the backfield.

Change that and you add atleast 2 wins. Find a kicker who isn't embarrassingly bad and you'll add 2 more.

Yankee_In_TX
01-24-2010, 04:31 PM
They need to get stronger up front. Smithiak can have linemen who weigh 180lbs. for all I care, as long as they aren't getting pushed around.

Our super athletic O-line got 3 kicks blocked, and countless runs blown up in the backfield.


QFT. After I think the AZ game I was so ticked and posted this (sorry, there were SO many games where we failed to get 1 yard not sure which...). We got pushed back didn't get a first or TD and lost. That week our coaches said:

1. When we need one yard bunching our players and going up the middle is our best play and;

2. Our linemen are undersized, they're athletic and finesse - they're not made for power


HTF do those comments NOT completely contradict each other?

steelbtexan
01-24-2010, 05:44 PM
QFT. After I think the AZ game I was so ticked and posted this (sorry, there were SO many games where we failed to get 1 yard not sure which...). We got pushed back didn't get a first or TD and lost. That week our coaches said:

1. When we need one yard bunching our players and going up the middle is our best play and;

2. Our linemen are undersized, they're athletic and finesse - they're not made for power


HTF do those comments NOT completely contradict each other?

Yes they do contradict each other. Classic Kubes

thunderkyss
01-24-2010, 06:15 PM
I was speaking more specifically to the bone headed plays where we fumble the ball away, throw an INT in the red zone, drop INTs, etc... Rosencopter... you know where we just screw the pooch and gift wrap the games for the other team.

ATXtexanfan
01-24-2010, 06:50 PM
Young and dumb?

SteveSlaton20
01-24-2010, 06:57 PM
http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Tennessee+Titans+v+Houston+Texans+8guX9XPJDIrl.jpg

http://cdn.picapp.com/ftp/Images/6/1/f/c/Tennessee_Titans_v_2723.jpg

thunderkyss
01-24-2010, 07:03 PM
http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Tennessee+Titans+v+Houston+Texans+8guX9XPJDIrl.jpg

http://cdn.picapp.com/ftp/Images/6/1/f/c/Tennessee_Titans_v_2723.jpg

I should have known better.

Lesson learned.

TheRealJoker
01-24-2010, 07:14 PM
We aren't a clutch team. I hope that changes with experience but that's the fact. We had a clutch kicker until the team was good enough to start winning meaningful games, then he got the yips.

We don't have the interior OL to push the pile in the running game, the coaches were too slow to insert Foster at RB so we don't know if we've got an answer at power back either.

We don't have a ballhawk in the secondary so clutch takeaways are scarce, which is what this team needs to beat elite teams without a clutch kicker or short yardage running game.

I hope our first round pick solves either of the short yardage running game problem or the need for a ballhawk in the secondary. I wouldn't mind using a draft pick at some point to see if we can get a clutch kicker in here either, or at least someone who will put enough pressure on Brown to make him go back to his 07 Dolphins game form.

thunderkyss
01-24-2010, 07:22 PM
We don't have a ballhawk in the secondary so clutch takeaways are scarce, which is what this team needs to beat elite teams without a clutch kicker or short yardage running game.


I'll go one step farther.

We don't have any play-makers on the defensive side of the ball, save Cushing.

Pollard is a good player, so is Mario & Antonio Smith, & Demeco.

But we don't have a Ray Lewis, an Ed Reed, a Derryl Revis... we've got players that make plays, but we don't have any play makers.

Scooter
01-24-2010, 07:29 PM
outside of our hero CHKris brown, i think many of our problems are lack of experience. that doesnt encompasses all of the problems we had, but it makes things difficult and then dominoes into other mistakes. things such as leaning too heavily on the few veterans that we do have to win games, or coaches getting overly creative (or conservative), or the young players struggling to balance motivation, intensity, and discipline. very few times this season did i feel like the opposing team was taking us out of the game or just plain beating us in any area. my memory's pretty bad but i dont remember that being the case these last couple of seasons where against teams like baltimore and pittsburgh and even within our division we were obviously outmatched.

like every team there are a lot of factors in every win and loss, and holes to be filled during the offseason, but our more costly areas are relatively easy to fix and some will fix themselves with time.

thunderkyss
01-24-2010, 07:54 PM
my memory's pretty bad but i dont remember that being the case these last couple of seasons where against teams like baltimore and pittsburgh and even within our division we were obviously outmatched.


Just to clarify, from your recollection, we were out matched against Indy, Pittsburgh, and Baltimore?

We split the games with Tennessee & Jacksonville, so we must have been close, right?

Then we lost pretty badly, I mean it was embarrassing, to Oakland.

We lost by a touchdown to Minnesota... I didn't even get to watch that game, so I don't know what happened.


Interesting.

CloakNNNdagger
01-24-2010, 09:46 PM
They need to get stronger up front. Smithiak can have linemen who weigh 180lbs. for all I care, as long as they aren't getting pushed around.

Our super athletic O-line got 3 kicks blocked, and countless runs blown up in the backfield.

Change that and you add atleast 2 wins. Find a kicker who isn't embarrassingly bad and you'll add 2 more.

QFT. After I think the AZ game I was so ticked and posted this (sorry, there were SO many games where we failed to get 1 yard not sure which...). We got pushed back didn't get a first or TD and lost. That week our coaches said:

1. When we need one yard bunching our players and going up the middle is our best play and;

2. Our linemen are undersized, they're athletic and finesse - they're not made for power


HTF do those comments NOT completely contradict each other?

Our stadium intro on the big screen characterizes our Texans as MIGHTY BULLS.

As this game has evolved with bigger and bigger and stronger and stronger players, a team based mainly on finesse these days is nothing more than a sad archaic anachronism...............destined to be thrown around like a rag doll...........and ultimately rewarded by taking it in the ass.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/05/29/article-0-016922E600000578-367_468x615.jpg

thunderkyss
01-24-2010, 10:00 PM
Our stadium intro on the big screen characterizes our Texans as MIGHTY BULLS.

As this game has evolved with bigger and bigger and stronger and stronger players, a team based mainly on finesse these days is nothing more than a sad archaic anachronism...............destined to be thrown around like a rag doll...........and ultimately rewarded by taking it in the ass.


In what way would you say our offensive line is different from the Indianapolis Colts offensive line?

The "sad archaic anachronism........ destined to be thrown around like a rage dall.... and ultimately rewarded by taking it in the ass." Indianapolis Colts Super Bowl appearing offensive line?

CloakNNNdagger
01-24-2010, 10:09 PM
In what way would you say our offensive line is different from the Indianapolis Colts offensive line?

The "sad archaic anachronism........ destined to be thrown around like a rage dall.... and ultimately rewarded by taking it in the ass." Indianapolis Colts Super Bowl appearing offensive line?

The Colts OL plays strong (they don't get thrown around) besides Manning being a 1 in a million exception QB. The Colts are an anachronism not because of their OL, but because they have an Iron Man behind them.

steelbtexan
01-24-2010, 10:09 PM
Our stadium intro on the big screen characterizes our Texans as MIGHTY BULLS.

As this game has evolved with bigger and bigger and stronger and stronger players, a team based mainly on finesse these days is nothing more than a sad archaic anachronism...............destined to be thrown around like a rag doll...........and ultimately rewarded by taking it in the ass.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/05/29/article-0-016922E600000578-367_468x615.jpg

I laughed almost as much as I did watching Favres career end on anther INT.

Very funny stuff

thunderkyss
01-24-2010, 10:40 PM
The Colts OL plays strong (they don't get thrown around) besides Manning being a 1 in a million exception QB. The Colts are an anachronism not because of their OL, but because they have an Iron Man behind them.

So you're saying back in the day, they taught the OL to get pushed around.

That it isn't the size of our OL, but their demeanor? They choose to play the game they way they did back in the 90s... getting pushed around and all?

Carr Bombed
01-24-2010, 11:21 PM
Jeff Saturday >>> Chris Myers.

You can start there. Most of our problems start in the middle of the line.

houstonspartan
01-24-2010, 11:59 PM
Jeff Saturday >>> Chris Myers.

You can start there. Most of our problems start in the middle of the line.


Yep

Carr Bombed
01-25-2010, 12:40 AM
We aren't a clutch team. I hope that changes with experience but that's the fact.

and I hope for RealJoker's sake that we become a clutch team, so he won't have to be so "clutch". :chicken:

poor guy :)

CloakNNNdagger
01-25-2010, 08:05 AM
So you're saying back in the day, they taught the OL to get pushed around.

That it isn't the size of our OL, but their demeanor? They choose to play the game they way they did back in the 90s... getting pushed around and all?


A total misrepresentation of what I wrote. Back when, the OLs were generally much smaller and weaker. Size and strength has evolved to the present day........both have significantly increased. The Texans have elected to remain in a time warp of sorts.

They don't CHOOSE to get pushed around, it's just fact they DO get pushed around, especially in short yardage and enclosed space (red zone) where superior size and/or strength must be demonstrated to be consistently successful.

dalemurphy
01-25-2010, 08:23 AM
A total misrepresentation of what I wrote. Back when, the OLs were generally much smaller and weaker. Size and strength has evolved to the present day........both have significantly increased. The Texans have elected to remain in a time warp of sorts.

They don't CHOOSE to get pushed around, it's just fact they DO get pushed around, especially in short yardage and enclosed space (red zone) where superior size and/or strength must be demonstrated to be consistently successful.

This regime has made the following draft picks on the OL in the first 3 rounds: Charles Spencer, Eric Winston, Duane Brown, A. Caldwell... all well over 300 lbs and physical players

using 6th round picks or less, they acquired: Kasey Studdard, Mike Briesel, Chris Myers, Chris White, Rashod Butler... all at or below 300 lbs

They have continued to start Chester Pitts.


Based on that, I would conclude that they want athletic guys with good size. However, they believe they can find value late in the draft and in Free Agency with some players that are undersized but still have good athleticism.

HOU-TEX
01-25-2010, 08:26 AM
Man! The season's over and we're still beating ourselves?

Personel (K & C Brown), coaching and youth = Inconsistency

Marcus
01-25-2010, 09:27 AM
Man! The season's over and we're still beating ourselves?

Personel (K & C Brown), coaching and youth = Inconsistency

hehe . . . yeah, like this happens to only the Houston Texans.

:rolleyes:

HOU-TEX
01-25-2010, 09:30 AM
hehe . . . yeah, like this happens to only the Houston Texans.

:rolleyes:

I don't recall saying it did. :rolleyes:

infantrycak
01-25-2010, 10:12 AM
Jeff Saturday >>> Chris Myers.

You can start there. Most of our problems start in the middle of the line.

Off-topic (which is probably a good thing in this case) did folks catch the Manning tirade against Jeff Saturday they aired before the game yesterday? It's from a year or two ago and the Colts have 1st and goal at about the 1 and try three straight passing plays which fail. As they are on the sideline Saturday says something about needing to run in that situation and Manning goes ballistic - walks down to where the OL is and starts yelling at Saturday to just hike the ball, pass block and shut the F up on calling plays. Another OLmen tells Manning to leave.

HOU-TEX
01-25-2010, 10:29 AM
Off-topic (which is probably a good thing in this case) did folks catch the Manning tirade against Jeff Saturday they aired before the game yesterday? It's from a year or two ago and the Colts have 1st and goal at about the 1 and try three straight passing plays which fail. As they are on the sideline Saturday says something about needing to run in that situation and Manning goes ballistic - walks down to where the OL is and starts yelling at Saturday to just hike the ball, pass block and shut the F up on calling plays. Another OLmen tells Manning to leave.

Yeah, I've seen that a few times. IIRC, it was about 5 years ago. They've obviously found neutral ground considering they're probably the best C/QB combo in the NFL.

Via PFT) The argument took place during the third quarter of a game in which the Rams took a 17-0 lead, only to have the Colts storm back and win, 45-28. It appears that Manning was angry because he was calling passing plays but center Jeff Saturday was calling run protections. Eventually left tackle Tarik Glenn got into it as well. The transcript of the argument is after the jump.

Manning: Damn it! Hey! Quit calling the (expletive) plays, all right?

Saturday: We've got to run the ball.

Manning: Bull (expletive)!

Saturday: We're six down here.

Manning: When you pass block, block. We'll run the (expletive) ball.

Saturday: Can we run it?

Manning: Yeah, Jeff, we will. When we call pass plays (expletive) block.

Glenn: Go sit down!

Manning: I will sit down! You all quit yelling!

Glenn: You're over here telling us how to block.

Manning: He's doing it! He's yelling at us!

Glenn: You don't have to yell.

Considering that the Colts' offense scored 31 points in just over 15 minutes of play after that incident, I'd have to say getting everyone fired up on the sideline is a good thing.

http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2008/04/29/peyton-manning-screams-at-offensive-line/

steelbtexan
01-25-2010, 11:04 AM
That is what's called leadership.

The good ship lollypop that's the Texans could use some of it.

infantrycak
01-25-2010, 11:24 AM
That is what's called leadership.

The good ship lollypop that's the Texans could use some of it.

This was not a good example of leadership. In fact Manning had his Mangina on display. It's not a good thing when your OL tells you to go away.

Texan_Bill
01-25-2010, 11:29 AM
Yeah, I've seen that a few times. IIRC, it was about 5 years ago. They've obviously found neutral ground considering they're probably the best C/QB combo in the NFL.



http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2008/04/29/peyton-manning-screams-at-offensive-line/

Your link didn't work.

Here: Peyton Manning goes crazy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEPDNHCrPfM&feature=related)

buddyboy
01-25-2010, 11:32 AM
That is what's called leadership.

The good ship lollypop that's the Texans could use some of it.

lol, remember when Bush yelled at Antonio Smith and they got into it? The whole board lit up saying he was out of line, etc. The grass is always greener on the other side.

Yelling at your offensive line until they are forced to tell you to gtfo is NOT a good example of leadership.

The Pencil Neck
01-25-2010, 11:55 AM
That is what's called leadership.

The good ship lollypop that's the Texans could use some of it.

You mean, like when Schaub got all over Slaton last year?

Like when Kubiak repeatedly got so into Rosenfel's face that Rosenfels had to beg him to stop?

thunderkyss
01-25-2010, 01:32 PM
A total misrepresentation of what I wrote. Back when, the OLs were generally much smaller and weaker. Size and strength has evolved to the present day........both have significantly increased. The Texans have elected to remain in a time warp of sorts.

They don't CHOOSE to get pushed around, it's just fact they DO get pushed around, especially in short yardage and enclosed space (red zone) where superior size and/or strength must be demonstrated to be consistently successful.

Which is why I brought up the Colts & their line. We're as big or bigger, run a similar scheme... & they are very successful, we are not.

I don't think it has anything to do with following some out dated anachronistic philosophy. That's all I'm saying.

Texan_Bill
01-25-2010, 01:57 PM
Which is why I brought up the Colts & their line. We're as big or bigger, run a similar scheme... & they are very successful, we are not.

I don't think it has anything to do with following some out dated anachronistic philosophy. That's all I'm saying.

You do know that there were only two teams worse than us in rushing, right?

30. Houston Texas
31. San Diego Chargers
32. Indianapolis Colts

Carr Bombed
01-25-2010, 02:09 PM
You do know that there were only two teams worse than us in rushing, right?

30. Houston Texas
31. San Diego Chargers
32. Indianapolis Colts

Yeah and one of the teams are those Colts... Maybe a reason why their line is so "successful" is because they have a HOF QB playing behind them LOL.

So yeah, either the line needs to get stronger up front or we need to swing a trade for Peyton Manning. Hmm :thinking: something tells me we'll have a much better shot at improving the offensive line.

HoustonFrog
01-25-2010, 02:13 PM
This was not a good example of leadership. In fact Manning had his Mangina on display. It's not a good thing when your OL tells you to go away.

This is why I used to hate Manning.... Marino. 1) Make bad plays or throws, 2) yell at someone else and act pissed that your throw would have been perfect if not for them

However over the last 3 years I've mellowed on Manning and realize how good he is...it seems to have coincided with him seeming like less of a prick.

BigBull17
01-25-2010, 02:17 PM
Weird that all of the last place rushing teams run some killer Play Action. Peyton and Schaub are great, and I'm not real sure about Rivers. Teams bite on it, which is shocking.

GP
01-25-2010, 02:39 PM
This is a question for the Sunshine Klub... I know what you Soapers think.

But Sunshine Klub (the K makes it kewl), how long have we been saying that WE are losing these games. That our boneheaded mistakes are costing us games?

I remember that's what we said last year, and the year before.

What needs to happen?

Are you for real? LOL.

As a former member (and perhaps Vice Chancellor for the Sunshine Qlub, because "Q" makes it queer) I can say that the time for sunshine was LAST off-season.

You guys must be the people who still wear the fashion style of your high school days, same hair style, and same music. Even though that was 20 years ago. You're still sporting the look.

Look, I don't want to crash this party or anything...but let's try and remember that maybe we don't get into situations to MAKE a bone-headed play if our leadership would just do a better job of putting the t-e-a-m into position to simply play.

I see PencilNeck, over in another thread, is talking about how Chris Brown laying it down on the ground is not so much of a big deal (Can't remember the exact justification he gave, but it was weak). Yet when Sage Rosenfels does it, it's nuclear around here? LOL. Okie-dokie.

My suggestions:

1. Go after a real running back, for a change. Not a roll of the dice.

2. Find a center who has longer arms than the T-Rex from Toy Story.

3. Allow your QB to audible to more than just a running play.

4. Stop the madness in the red zone. You have Andre Johnson and anywhere from 4-to-8 attempts to get it to him, based on down and distance from the 20.

5. Find a way to beat your divisional rivals. Or at least go .500 vs. them.

6. Find the balls to cut those who cost you multiple games, when they weren't all that good to begin with. Sacrifice your ego, FOR REAL, instead of the fake "It's on me" horse-hockey you throw out at Loser Monday pressers.

7. Play the best players at all times, and not just the ones you personally like. Jacoby Jones found his groove this season. Can he please play more snaps? Pretty please? Or is that nasty behavioral problem poisoning our well-constructed team of veteran leaders?

Those are the things that indirectly affect this team's chances to win.

Or was this just a thread about how we can miraculously avoid making mistakes that are going to occur on any team on any given Sunday?

I like to control the things we can control. Coaches can control the things they can control. Out on the field, it's up for grabs. So the coaches better have their end running on all cylinders.

As a former Sunshine Qlubber, I feel fit to address this eternal optimism with the revelation that the sun you see is really a 3rd grader's craft he made out of poster board and hung from the ceiling tile. And Gary Kubiak IS that 3rd grader, in terms of head coaching acumen.

Make sure you wear plenty of sunscreen this off-season.

dalemurphy
01-25-2010, 03:10 PM
Are you for real? LOL.

As a former member (and perhaps Vice Chancellor for the Sunshine Qlub, because "Q" makes it queer) I can say that the time for sunshine was LAST off-season.

You guys must be the people who still wear the fashion style of your high school days, same hair style, and same music. Even though that was 20 years ago. You're still sporting the look.

Look, I don't want to crash this party or anything...but let's try and remember that maybe we don't get into situations to MAKE a bone-headed play if our leadership would just do a better job of putting the t-e-a-m into position to simply play.

I see PencilNeck, over in another thread, is talking about how Chris Brown laying it down on the ground is not so much of a big deal (Can't remember the exact justification he gave, but it was weak). Yet when Sage Rosenfels does it, it's nuclear around here? LOL. Okie-dokie.

My suggestions:

1. Go after a real running back, for a change. Not a roll of the dice.

Now that they've repaired the defense, gotten the QB, solved LT, there's little doubt that they will improve the RB position

2. Find a center who has longer arms than the T-Rex from Toy Story.

Now that they've repiared, the defense, got a QB, solved, LT, I'm sure they will work to improve the interior OL

3. Allow your QB to audible to more than just a running play.
2nd of the season, Schaub was doing a lot more at the LOS

4. Stop the madness in the red zone. You have Andre Johnson and anywhere from 4-to-8 attempts to get it to him, based on down and distance from the 20.
In case you haven't noticed, AJ and KW are god awful at the flag routes near the goal line, neither shield the defender off well, both often overrun the play and allow the CB an INT opportunity. Since they will be improving the running game and the all-world TE will be back, red zone should be better.

5. Find a way to beat your divisional rivals. Or at least go .500 vs. them.
that goes hand in hand with be really good... since it's a really good division.

6. Find the balls to cut those who cost you multiple games, when they weren't all that good to begin with. Sacrifice your ego, FOR REAL, instead of the fake "It's on me" horse-hockey you throw out at Loser Monday pressers.
You have the players you have. I'm not sure that vindictive cutting of players during the season sends any positive message to the team... perhaps it makes angry fans happy, but I don't want my NFL head coach making decisions based on that.

7. Play the best players at all times, and not just the ones you personally like. Jacoby Jones found his groove this season. Can he please play more snaps? Pretty please? Or is that nasty behavioral problem poisoning our well-constructed team of veteran leaders?
Jacoby did see more snaps as he proved himself during the season. Hard to be too critical of the 6th most prolific passing attack in the history of the NFL.

Those are the things that indirectly affect this team's chances to win.

Or was this just a thread about how we can miraculously avoid making mistakes that are going to occur on any team on any given Sunday?

I like to control the things we can control. Coaches can control the things they can control. Out on the field, it's up for grabs. So the coaches better have their end running on all cylinders.

As a former Sunshine Qlubber, I feel fit to address this eternal optimism with the revelation that the sun you see is really a 3rd grader's craft he made out of poster board and hung from the ceiling tile. And Gary Kubiak IS that 3rd grader, in terms of head coaching acumen.

Kubiak led this team to the same record as NYJets, Baltimore, Pittsburgh. We finished second in the division... is this a better roster than they have in Pittsburgh, NY, and Baltimore, or did our coaches perform better this year than Ryan, Tomlin, Harbaugh, Fisher, Soprano?
Make sure you wear plenty of sunscreen this off-season.


signed, Sunshine Club

thunderkyss
01-25-2010, 07:04 PM
Are you for real? LOL.

Even though that was 20 years ago. You're still sporting the look.

But I make this shit look gooddddd!

Those are the things that indirectly affect this team's chances to win.

If I look past the crappy attittude, you've got some good points in there.

Or was this just a thread about how we can miraculously avoid making mistakes that are going to occur on any team on any given Sunday?

I like to control the things we can control. Coaches can control the things they can control. Out on the field, it's up for grabs. So the coaches better have their end running on all cylinders.


I'm assuming from this part of your reply, that you are blaming Chris Brown & Kris Brown for our season more than you are blaming AJ, Schaub & Slaton?

I can understand that we should never have been in a situation where Chris Brown was our best option. I can understand things couldn't have been much worse replacing Kris Brown midway through the season.

But I believe none of those would have been the case, if Slaton didn't have his nerve thing... If Matt didn't throw INTs in the redzone (is it just me, or was there an un-proportional amount thrown in the red zone), if AJ would have caught that ball in the endzone... If Mario decided to make a statement against the Colts, & not the Seahawks...

etc.. honestly, if it were just a couple of scrubs on the team screwing up. But for most of the season, it was the guys we were hoping would be leaders.

GP
01-25-2010, 07:27 PM
But I make this shit look gooddddd!

If I look past the crappy attittude, you've got some good points in there.


I'm assuming from this part of your reply, that you are blaming Chris Brown & Kris Brown for our season more than you are blaming AJ, Schaub & Slaton?

I can understand that we should never have been in a situation where Chris Brown was our best option. I can understand things couldn't have been much worse replacing Kris Brown midway through the season.

But I believe none of those would have been the case, if Slaton didn't have his nerve thing... If Matt didn't throw INTs in the redzone (is it just me, or was there an un-proportional amount thrown in the red zone), if AJ would have caught that ball in the endzone... If Mario decided to make a statement against the Colts, & not the Seahawks...

etc.. honestly, if it were just a couple of scrubs on the team screwing up. But for most of the season, it was the guys we were hoping would be leaders.

LOL at the "I make this _____ look gooood!" You're still in my posse, TK.

But to be a leader, it must be modeled. Unless you truly ARE a great one, such as Brady or Manning or any of the other great ones. You can be great and shine all on your own. Others, who are one rung lower than the great ones, need help. I don't think Trent Dilfer won a ring by being a great QB. I think that team had a monster staff of coaches who used the defense to maneuver the offense into position for the wins--The staff knew what their strength was, and they didn't get "cute" trying to be something else. And Dilfer was just in the right place at the right time.

I look to the coaches for that "next level" leadership, because otherwise what in the hell are they there for? To unlock the gym and take inventory of the equipment? Players play. Coaches coach.

And I just cannot buy the tired old argument that these players just need to nut up and get it done. There's too much that's woefully lacking with Gary as head coach to focus upon the players and lay this on them.

If Chris Brown wasn't on this team, Arian Foster gets the 3rd string spot. I shudder to think what might have been had Arian Foster received the snaps Chris Brown was given. This is a Kubiak thang: Playing favorites and willing said favored players to success (and watching them crash and burn) at the detriment of the team.

We didn't have to cut the kicker, Kris Brown. Want to play nice guy with Kris Brown? Fine. Keep his yip-infested leg on the bench and bring in a guy who might try and prove something. Because from what we all saw, Kris Brown had the shanks and it didn't get better over time. Cut CHRIS Brown, leave Kris Brown (on the bench to sit and chill) and sign a dude. They're out there, despite what people claim to the contrary. Sometimes, you just have to show that you have a Plan B in case things go south. And things went wayyy south.

To all those reading, "YES, we probably missed the playoffs because Gary Kubiak couldn't grit his teeth and make some roster moves that mattered." I said it, and I believe it. He has no killer instinct in his blood. Fine tactician, builder of a great-looking offense, but not a head coach who moves and shakes on gameday or leading up to games.

And this team is a reflection of that. You know, it really IS all on the players because I don't think this head coach can do a head coach's job when it matters. You guys are damn right when you say the players didn't come through in the clutch. They're all they got. I know that might sound overly dramatic (eh, it's who I am after all). But I'm getting worn out by the 5th year Keep Hope Alive! tour around here.

In the end, lots of people are scared to the death that Kubiak is going to pull off a magic bullet and strike a bulls-eye with his BB gun from 1,000 yards out. So they don't want to be on record around here as being the Negative Ned who had no faith in him. I can understand it.

I don't even know if it's even a 50-50 odds of him pulling it off or not. From what I have seen in the NFL over the past 3 or 4 years, the trend is that a coach gets exposed pretty fast or he finds a way to put the team above and beyond where it had been before he arrived. Pull out the stats about our offense this year and basically blow your nose with it...because we sat at home with that prolific offense. Getting up and down the field, between the 20s, is easy for this team. It's the payoff that's slippery. Things get "cute" after we hit the 20-yard-line. That's on Gary Kubiak.

All someone has to do is sit down, forget all the pro-Kubiak or anti-Kubiak rhetoric that's been peddled on here, and ask himself this: "Do I believe that Gary Kubiak WILL turn the corner, or do I DESIRE to see him turn a corner?"

Too much sentimental Hometown Boy Makes Good stuff, for me. I wanted David Carr, the good little Christian boy who has a wife and a kid and wears athletic tape around his ring finger on game day, to succeed and turn the corner. But I had to let go when his final year started off horribly and it was painfully obvious that he was overmatched for this. I'm bailing before Kubiak's extra year. This is eerily similar to the Carr saga.

If we apply the same critique upon Kubiak that we applied to Carr, I think there's a bit of a similar ending: Almost, but not good enough. Looks good, but crumbles under pressure. Says all the right things. Sounds like he believes in himself. Does great in practice. Gameday is iffy.

GP
01-25-2010, 07:36 PM
I know you guys prolly laugh at my long post.

TK and I are notorious for these novel-length back-and-forths between us. It's a love letter thing, I suppose. (Don't tell Joe Texan about this! I quit him, and have moved on.).

Anyways, I will gladly man up and come on here and repent and ask for forgiveness, etc., if Kubiak pulls this off. I just don't see it happening.

thunderkyss
01-25-2010, 08:52 PM
But to be a leader, it must be modeled.

I look to the coaches for that "next level" leadership, because otherwise what in the hell are they there for? To unlock the gym and take inventory of the equipment? Players play. Coaches coach.

And I just cannot buy the tired old argument that these players just need to nut up and get it done. There's too much that's woefully lacking with Gary as head coach to focus upon the players and lay this on them.

And this team is a reflection of that. You know, it really IS all on the players because I don't think this head coach can do a head coach's job when it matters. You guys are damn right when you say the players didn't come through in the clutch. They're all they got.

I cut a lot of your rant out, & it's still too long. Let me ask you a couple of questions.

What do you think of Mario? Did you see him play in Seattle? He was a beast. I know he's been hurt all year long, but in that game, he wasn't going to be blocked by a tight end, or a RB. Every time they tried, he made them pay. Against their tackles & Guards, he attacked them so many different ways he had them on their heels all day.

Why didn't he do that against the Colts?

If it was simply because we were playing a lower level of competition, then we spent too much on Mr. Williams. I know he's better than that. I know he's played very well this year. & I'm not going by stats, I'm not going by sacks. When I watched him play Seattle, I think it was obvious, he decided to play at a different level.

He did it again in the 4th Qtr against New England. Do you think Kubiak should have to motivate him to play at that level? Don't get me wrong, I think as a head coach, he should be all over Mario, but right now, I don't want to talk about that. It would be nice if you Soapers would mention it every now & then, but you're so fixated on the Browns, it doesn't even make sense.

Andre took Beast Mode to a completely new level, practically all year long. Demeco.. a beast, all year long. Cushing.. All year.

I know Schaub has the stats and everything, but he didn't step it up until mid season.

Do you think you would even know the names Peirre Garson or Austin Collie if they played on any other team? They've been stepping up their game because they are playing with Peyton Manning, and Reggie Wayne, and Dallas Clark, and Jeff Saturday. They don't want to let their role models down, they want to belong.

Do you think they are more "prepared" than Jacoby Jones or Glen Martinez? I don't.

Do you think the Colts struck lightning twice with Lacey & Powers? or do you think it's more plausible that they are trying to play up to the expectations of Freeney, Bethea, Brackett & Session?

Don't get me wrong, the Coach sets the expectations, but if you don't have leaders on the field living it & breathing it, it's in one ear, and out the other. They'll go through the motions, and never reach their full potential.

In the end, lots of people are scared to the death that Kubiak is going to pull off a magic bullet and strike a bulls-eye with his BB gun from 1,000 yards out. So they don't want to be on record around here as being the Negative Ned who had no faith in him. I can understand it.


If we apply the same critique upon Kubiak that we applied to Carr, I think there's a bit of a similar ending: Almost, but not good enough. Looks good, but crumbles under pressure. Says all the right things. Sounds like he believes in himself. Does great in practice. Gameday is iffy.

No, that's not it at all. David Carr was scared. period. He was scared to throw interceptions, so he took sacks, at least he could blame those on someone else. Gary isn't trying to shift any blame, he's actually taking more than is rightfully his.

David had no idea what he was looking at when he looked at an NFL defense. Remember the, "Are you F@$#ing kidding me?" thing?

Kubiak's got these guys playing really, really good football. That's one of the things a coach does. He teaches them the right way to play the game. & they are getting it.

Andre going to that other level... I think it's because he believes what Kubiak is spitting, not because it's club med Houston chapter. Jacoby is buying in.

Demeco, no doubt in my mind that he's bought in, and he's teaching his little brother. I think Antonio bought in. I'm sure Pollard's bought in.

There's a lot of things that a head coach is supposed to do.... & Kubiak screwed those all to hell.

But there are other things that he is excelling in. I believe that.

He's got a young team... a young team.. with strong leaders.. look back at 2009, and you know what they are capable of.

Look at the stats..... look at the pro bowls.... think about the body of work. Forget about Chris Brown... he's gone. Forget about what they didn't do. Think about how close we were..... I know it's not horse shoes.... But we're talking about a building process.

GP
01-25-2010, 09:23 PM
But there are other things that he is excelling in. I believe that.

He's got a young team... a young team.. with strong leaders.. look back at 2009, and you know what they are capable of.

Look at the stats..... look at the pro bowls.... think about the body of work. Forget about Chris Brown... he's gone. Forget about what they didn't do. Think about how close we were..... I know it's not horse shoes.... But we're talking about a building process.

That's not a bad job of selling/marketing your thoughts. Well done.

I can't forget about Chris Brown because there will be one or two more of those in 2010. Same problem, different names.

Overall, this head coach doesn't out-coach his opponents. You speak of the Seahawks quite a bit. Is that really the measuring stick? And Tom Brady blew a knee out last year (not as mobile as he once was, and he wasn't very mobile to begin with). Plus, that team had just begun to crater when they hit Reliant. Caught them at the right time.

Why doesn't Mario play the same way vs. the Colts? In the end, I think Mario will play well against the offensive lines he knows he can beat up on, and he does the "Run up field and into the arms of the lineman, or 15 yards around the QB" when he knows he's licked. Yet that's a whole different discussion.

DeMeco and Cushing and Pollard have basically saved this team this past season, IMO. Those guys are playing consistent football. Our defense plays more consistently than the offense. I think Frank Bush gets more out of his squad than Kubiak gets out of his. And that's an indictment on Kubiak.

I think that defense made a bigger turn-around in one year under Bush than Kubiak made with his offense over the past four years. We had a horrid situation with Dunta's holdout, TJ got dumped pretty unceremoniously, and we were coming off of the epitome of ineptitude with Richard Smith's handling of the scheming.

Maybe the offense can finally gel and maybe the defense will excel again, and maybe they will both operate in rhythm together in 2010. That's an awfully lot of maybe's.

I think it takes so many huge efforts on so many different levels for this to work out past year 5 for Kubiak.

Norg
01-25-2010, 10:49 PM
We didnt make enough plays

And we didnt play 60 mins of clean football

simpe has that


Thats what matt or Kubes will tell u LOL

Thats what Belichek says all the time after the pats lose

infantrycak
01-26-2010, 09:45 AM
If Matt didn't throw INTs in the redzone (is it just me, or was there an un-proportional amount thrown in the red zone)

Inside the redzone Schaub threw 21 TD's and 2 INT's with a QB rating of 103.

The Pencil Neck
01-26-2010, 09:57 AM
If Matt didn't throw INTs in the redzone (is it just me, or was there an un-proportional amount thrown in the red zone

It's just you. You're thinking of last season, I think.

Joe Texan
01-26-2010, 07:41 PM
The Colts OL plays strong (they don't get thrown around) besides Manning being a 1 in a million exception QB. The Colts are an anachronism not because of their OL, but because they have an Iron Man behind them.

Manning is an out and out Cheater, Illegal Procedure, Motion I DO NOT CARE WHAT YOU CALL IT, when he has him, a tight end and a running back moving at the same time at the line of scrimmage he is cheating plain and simple but the Refs will never call anything on the God of Football cause then they might get it right.

WWJD
01-26-2010, 07:52 PM
I highly doubt a few illegal procedure calls diminish any of Peyton's greatness.

Fact is the guy is a football surgeon. He reads defenses better than 99% of QB's playing today and he can make the tough throws whether they be long or short passes. One of the Jets DB's made the comment after the game the other day that they threw everything at him and he just kept making plays.

He also has the luxury of having receivers that run very crisp routes.

He's had the same OC for all these years and he's very good.

Fact is Peyton is just smarter than most QB's playing and he has the physical tools to go along with that.

That offense never panics and if you give them the ball with 30 seconds left they'll most likely make something happen.

Joe Texan
01-26-2010, 09:42 PM
The fact that Payaton is good does not erase the fact that the offence cheats. His movement and his teamates movements behind the line Would never be allowed by any other QB. I am not saying that is all his fault I am saying it is BS that the Refs allow it and it makes the Feild an unfair advantage for the Colts.

redwhiteANDblue
01-26-2010, 09:50 PM
Inside the redzone Schaub threw 21 TD's and 2 INT's with a QB rating of 103.

and one of those INT's wasn't his fault. Matt played great in the redzone this year imo

WWJD
01-27-2010, 07:26 AM
The fact that Payaton is good does not erase the fact that the offence cheats. His movement and his teamates movements behind the line Would never be allowed by any other QB. I am not saying that is all his fault I am saying it is BS that the Refs allow it and it makes the Feild an unfair advantage for the Colts.

Then I am sure they are called for illegal procedure and penalized the 5 yards if they aren't set. I frankly haven't seen what you could possibly be referring to. Peyton does have the freedom to turn and say something to the RB's..you see all QB's do that.

Maybe you're talking about a hurry up offense. ???

infantrycak
01-27-2010, 09:09 AM
Manning is an out and out Cheater, Illegal Procedure, Motion I DO NOT CARE WHAT YOU CALL IT, when he has him, a tight end and a running back moving at the same time at the line of scrimmage he is cheating plain and simple but the Refs will never call anything on the God of Football cause then they might get it right.

I highly doubt a few illegal procedure calls diminish any of Peyton's greatness.

Fact is the guy is a football surgeon. He reads defenses better than 99% of QB's playing today and he can make the tough throws whether they be long or short passes.

What JT is talking about in no way takes away from Manning's analysis of D's or play after the ball is snapped but he's right the Colts have their own rules for movement. Manning and the entire O will get set and then Manning backs out and starts barking. Sometimes two or three of his OLmen will even pull their hands off the ground to crane around and look at him. We've seen Walter get hit with a false start for his back heel lifting slightly while it isn't unusual for a back or WR to move closer to Manning to hear him. That's fine coming out of the huddle but not after they have set. Wish I could remember which head coach did it a few years back (think it might have been Belichick) but one submitted a tape to the league and the issue was covered on ESPN.

BigTimeTexanFan
01-27-2010, 09:33 AM
What JT is talking about in no way takes away from Manning's analysis of D's or play after the ball is snapped but he's right the Colts have their own rules for movement. Manning and the entire O will get set and then Manning backs out and starts barking. Sometimes two or three of his OLmen will even pull their hands off the ground to crane around and look at him. We've seen Walter get hit with a false start for his back heel lifting slightly while it isn't unusual for a back or WR to move closer to Manning to hear him. That's fine coming out of the huddle but not after they have set. Wish I could remember which head coach did it a few years back (think it might have been Belichick) but one submitted a tape to the league and the issue was covered on ESPN.

This has always bothered me when watching the Colts and I have often wondered why don't defensive coaches coach their lineman to jump off the ball and MAKE CONTACT with the offensive line the second they move. This would force the refs to call a false start every time they pull that crap. This happens all the time and it drives me crazy.

WWJD
01-27-2010, 10:35 AM
It must be ok..Romo does the same thing.

infantrycak
01-27-2010, 11:03 AM
It must be ok..Romo does the same thing.

Romo doesn't do a quarter what Manning does but it isn't so much about the QB. It's about what the OL and other players do in response to Manning. Once they are set they aren't supposed to twitch. Myers has been called a couple times for sliding the football a quarter inch closer to him. There was a Bears C who was repeatedly called for wiggling the fingers on his non-snapping hand. Can't remember which game it was this last weekend but a RB pulled a false start for an almost imperceptible twitch. And yet just this last weekend Manning gets fully under C, then backs out and the LT stood almost full upright and turned his whole body to Manning.

HoustonFrog
01-27-2010, 11:34 AM
Romo doesn't do a quarter what Manning does but it isn't so much about the QB. It's about what the OL and other players do in response to Manning. Once they are set they aren't supposed to twitch. Myers has been called a couple times for sliding the football a quarter inch closer to him. There was a Bears C who was repeatedly called for wiggling the fingers on his non-snapping hand. Can't remember which game it was this last weekend but a RB pulled a false start for an almost imperceptible twitch. And yet just this last weekend Manning gets fully under C, then backs out and the LT stood almost full upright and turned his whole body to Manning.

I've noticed refs let alot of this slide but I'm wondering if it is a slack interpretation of the rules and whether it is drawing the defense. The official rule uses the word "abruptly" when talking about movement after being set.

http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/positionofplayers

No interior lineman may move abruptly after taking or simulating a three-point stance.

No player of offensive team may charge or move abruptly, after assuming set position, in such manner as to lead defense to believe snap has started. No player of the defensive team within one yard of the line of scrimmage may make an abrupt movement in an attempt to cause the offense to false start.

Of course then they have to be set for 1 second presnap.

I didn't find anything about people or teams openly complaining about it.

infantrycak
01-27-2010, 11:58 AM
I've noticed refs let alot of this slide but I'm wondering if it is a slack interpretation of the rules and whether it is drawing the defense. The official rule uses the word "abruptly" when talking about movement after being set.

Well that's why I gave some specific examples. AJ or Walter (both of whom have pulled false start flags) lifting their rear heal from one quarter inch off the ground to one half inch off the ground or Olin Kreutz (that was the Bears C) wiggling his off hand fingers is somehow less abrupt than Manning's LT coming out of his stance? And why is Manning allowed to get set and then back out? I am fine with his running around when he has never gotten set but just this last weekend there were several times that he was fully tucked under C and just stood up and walked away The rule is supposed to apply to QBs as well.

HoustonFrog
01-27-2010, 12:07 PM
Well that's why I gave some specific examples. AJ or Walter (both of whom have pulled false start flags) lifting their rear heal from one quarter inch off the ground to one half inch off the ground or Olin Kreutz (that was the Bears C) wiggling his off hand fingers is somehow less abrupt than Manning's LT coming out of his stance? And why is Manning allowed to get set and then back out? I am fine with his running around when he has never gotten set but just this last weekend there were several times that he was fully tucked under C and just stood up and walked away The rule is supposed to apply to QBs as well.

Yeah, I have no clue about those instances. Guess some refs are strict. Just wanted to get that out there as to why some of the refs may overlook it. I haven't paid close enough attention to him.

BigTimeTexanFan
01-27-2010, 12:26 PM
Well that's why I gave some specific examples. AJ or Walter (both of whom have pulled false start flags) lifting their rear heal from one quarter inch off the ground to one half inch off the ground or Olin Kreutz (that was the Bears C) wiggling his off hand fingers is somehow less abrupt than Manning's LT coming out of his stance? And why is Manning allowed to get set and then back out? I am fine with his running around when he has never gotten set but just this last weekend there were several times that he was fully tucked under C and just stood up and walked away The rule is supposed to apply to QBs as well.

Or the guards almost turning completely around trying to look at him. This has gone on for a long time and I can't stand it. It's all part of Manning's game, he's trying to see what the defense is going to do. That's why I don't understand why defensive coaches don't coach their def. lineman to blow up the offensive lineman the second they move. If the refs won't call it on their own, they would have to when 2 or 3 players of the offensive line is lying on the ground.

thunderkyss
01-27-2010, 05:57 PM
This has always bothered me when watching the Colts and I have often wondered why don't defensive coaches coach their lineman to jump off the ball and MAKE CONTACT with the offensive line the second they move. This would force the refs to call a false start every time they pull that crap. This happens all the time and it drives me crazy.

That's been my thinking as well. Especially if they all point at the offending lineman... it would be a sure flag.