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dalemurphy
01-19-2010, 06:16 PM
Anybody know whether we received a 5th or 6th for Travis Johnson.

The rumor is that the conditional pick was based on games played. If so, it should be a 5th rounder. He played in 13 games and also in the playoff game. However, if it's tied to production, we're looking at a 6th. He had 16 tackles, only 2 for a loss, and 0 sacks.

Tailgate
01-19-2010, 06:20 PM
If I remember correctly, the 5th was due upon meeting minimal playing time requirements.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/08/31/chargers-acquire-former-first-rounder-travis-johnson/

b0ng
01-19-2010, 06:22 PM
Just assume it was a sixth because. . .well it's Travis Johnson.

dalemurphy
01-19-2010, 06:27 PM
If I remember correctly, the 5th was due upon meeting minimal playing time requirements.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/08/31/chargers-acquire-former-first-rounder-travis-johnson/

Excellent!

dalemurphy
01-19-2010, 06:31 PM
Here's another question:

Do the compensatory picks get awarded for the same off-season, or do they lag a year?

In other words, let's say that Dunta and Pitts both get signed away in March for significant money... and we don't sign any bigtime FAs. If that happens, we'd be in line for 2 middle round compensatory draft picks. Would we get those in the 2010 draft or would it be for the 2011 draft?

Also, are there any relevant rule changes regarding compensatory picks under the adjusted 2010 no cap rules?

b0ng
01-19-2010, 06:32 PM
Here's another question:

Do the compensatory picks get awarded for the same off-season, or do they lag a year?

In other words, let's say that Dunta and Pitts both get signed away in March for significant money... and we don't sign any bigtime FAs. If that happens, we'd be in line for 2 middle round compensatory draft picks. Would we get those in the 2010 draft or would it be for the 2011 draft?

Also, are there any relevant rule changes regarding compensatory picks under the adjusted 2010 no cap rules?

Going by last years rules the number of FA's you sign also has a direct impact on the compensatory draft picks you may or may not receive.

Ole Miss Texan
01-19-2010, 06:38 PM
Just assume it was a sixth because. . .well it's Travis Johnson.

There are no words to express how funny this is. Simply stunning, b0ng.

dalemurphy
01-19-2010, 06:40 PM
Going by last years rules the number of FA's you sign also has a direct impact on the compensatory draft picks you may or may not receive.

Yes, but the question is: does that equation take place for the same year. Or, do our off-season gains and losses get factored in for compensatory picks the following year?

b0ng
01-19-2010, 06:43 PM
Yes, but the question is: does that equation take place for the same year. Or, do our off-season gains and losses get factored in for compensatory picks the following year?

Pro click zone (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=NFL+Compensatory+pick+rules)

infantrycak
01-19-2010, 06:44 PM
Yes, but the question is: does that equation take place for the same year. Or, do our off-season gains and losses get factored in for compensatory picks the following year?

They lag a year. For instance Haynesworth leaving last off-season will be considered this off-season.

steelbtexan
01-19-2010, 06:50 PM
Just assume it was a sixth because. . .well it's Travis Johnson.

Very funny

It's hard to believe CC and the losing factory gave up a 1st rd pick for this guy.

On second thought it isn't really that hard to believe.

RagingBull
01-19-2010, 08:00 PM
Just assume it was a sixth because. . .well it's Travis Johnson.

Rep!

m5kwatts
01-19-2010, 08:56 PM
I'm not gonna say Rick Smith took AJ Smith to the cleaners on this trade, but getting anything out of Travis Johnson was a miracle in my eyes. I assumed he'd be cut and that'd be that. Getting a 5th for the guy feels like stealing.

nero THE zero
01-20-2010, 09:15 AM
Yes, but the question is: does that equation take place for the same year. Or, do our off-season gains and losses get factored in for compensatory picks the following year?
They lag because they're dependent not only on what kind of contract that player signs, but how he performs with his new team.

For instance, if Pitts signs a mediocre contract with, say, Washington, and doesn't earn a starting spot on the team, we'd get a considerably worse pick (if one at all) than if he signs a mediocre contract with Washington and earns a pro-bowl selection.

In regards to the OP, I don't remember where I heard it, but I am under the impression that we are due a 5th if TJ played 1/3 of SD's plays.

No More 8-8's
01-20-2010, 09:56 AM
You know back when we drafted Travis Johnson, i wasnt that into the draft like i am now.....but do you remember if we was a first-round lock DT?

The only reason i ask this, is i thought the pick came out of left field? was he projected to go that high?

HOU-TEX
01-20-2010, 10:14 AM
You know back when we drafted Travis Johnson, i wasnt that into the draft like i am now.....but do you remember if we was a first-round lock DT?

The only reason i ask this, is i thought the pick came out of left field? was he projected to go that high?

Travis Johnson may be the best pure defensive tackle in the draft. Guys like Marcus Spears and Shaun Cody have spent a lot of time at defensive end, but Johnson is a pure tackle.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2005/prospects/travis_johnson.html

ANALYSIS: Rebounding off a poor junior campaign, Johnson got his game back on track last season and progressed off of what was a terrific sophomore year. The court case of .03 seemed to drag on him as a junior and was not as highly ranked as he should have been coming into the season. Stands to add bulk and strength to his frame yet a solid tackle for a conventional defense and a legitimate first round choice.

PROJECTION: Mid First Round

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2005/draft/players/56778.html

Ole Miss Texan
01-20-2010, 10:17 AM
You know back when we drafted Travis Johnson, i wasnt that into the draft like i am now.....but do you remember if we was a first-round lock DT?

The only reason i ask this, is i thought the pick came out of left field? was he projected to go that high?

I didn't really start following the draft like I do now until 2006. It was because of the whole #1 pick, Mario/Vince/Reggie/D'Brick/Trade Down debate that got me so interested in this process.

TJ was considered a 1st round pick by most so-called Draft Experts. He had a lot of potential (there's that word again) but there were questions about the intangibles and passion.

I really like Drew Boylhart's opinion on prospects... he's usually spot on.


Travis Johnson - DT - Florida St.

Strengths
Travis has good size and speed for his position. He has good lateral pursuit and can handle the double team. He does well in run defense and looks to have enough talent to be a good pass rusher. Travis has the potential to be an NFL DT because of his size-speed ratio.

Needs to Improve
Let’s start with the lack of intensity, strength to shed blockers, plays too high and in general, is completely overmatched by the good O-linemen at the college level strictly because he seems uninterested.

Talent Board Round 1
If somebody tells you that this kid has 1st round talent because of his size-speed ratio, then you can believe they are mailing it in. This is exactly the type of kid that could make you lose your job. Travis has that word potential attached to him like a lead weight attached to a body that you throw into the river. The problem is, if you believe it, then you’re the body. In my opinion, you can’t show up a few times in four years to warrant a first day pick -- much less a first round pick. Travis does have talent, but it will not be enough to make him a player in the NFL. Right now, he lacks the intangibles to make it. He lacks the intensity and heart needed to be the best and to improve every year. A 2nd day pick is where I would personally rate him, but I bet you will get some coach who thinks that he is going to make a name for himself as some great talent evaluator and turn this kid around. This is the same coach that tells you what a ‘great young man’ a player is as the kid is going to court. Can Travis be a good player in the NFL? Absolutely, but that does not mean I would take him on the 1st day of this draft. Remember, for me it’s a business and the player has to play on the field all the time like it’s a job interview -- not just when he wants to or when the mood strikes him. We are talking millions of dollars here!

http://www.thehuddlereport.com/Free/archive/2005DRAFT/2005PlayerProfiles/TravisJohnson.htm

Mailman
01-20-2010, 10:57 AM
I'm not gonna say Rick Smith took AJ Smith to the cleaners on this trade, but getting anything out of Travis Johnson was a miracle in my eyes. I assumed he'd be cut and that'd be that. Getting a 5th for the guy feels like stealing.

Brilliant! Smith could parlay Travis Johnson into a rookie kicker who can actually make clutch kicks.

Draft Hunter Lawrence with that pick.

DeMarCushPoll
01-20-2010, 11:19 AM
I just went back and looked at the Texans 2005 draft and I only have one question. How in the HELL did casserly EVER get a job doing ANYTHING in the NFL!?!?!?! WTF? That has to be the worst draft in NFL history.

No More 8-8's
01-20-2010, 11:21 AM
I didn't really start following the draft like I do now until 2006. It was because of the whole #1 pick, Mario/Vince/Reggie/D'Brick/Trade Down debate that got me so interested in this process.

TJ was considered a 1st round pick by most so-called Draft Experts. He had a lot of potential (there's that word again) but there were questions about the intangibles and passion.

I really like Drew Boylhart's opinion on prospects... he's usually spot on.

http://www.thehuddlereport.com/Free/archive/2005DRAFT/2005PlayerProfiles/TravisJohnson.htm

Great find! Man that guy hit the nail on the head didnt he?

Ole Miss Texan
01-20-2010, 12:25 PM
I just went back and looked at the Texans 2005 draft and I only have one question. How in the HELL did casserly EVER get a job doing ANYTHING in the NFL!?!?!?! WTF? That has to be the worst draft in NFL history.

"You don't understand, Bob... that's how we do it in the NFL."

scourge
01-20-2010, 12:56 PM
What I remember was being at the draft party with Dante and Lauren and the majority of the place, us included, were less than thrilled with 1st the decision to trade down and then to select TJ. At the time it was Derrick Johnson most people there seemed to be drooling over, that or a LT like Brown.

If i remember correctly, there was also an iss with TJ regarding mental health regarding his passion for the game. Something about maybe ADHD or something and needing to take his meds.

Big Lou
01-20-2010, 03:02 PM
Actually I think San Diego wants a 5th or 6th from us for taking TJ off our hands. I'd say it was worth it!

DiehardChris
01-20-2010, 03:11 PM
A ton of us Texans bloggers are trying to track the answer down still. The problem is, if I'm not mistaken the actual requirements for what determines the pick have never been publicly disclosed - it's all been speculation.

If we go by speculation, it sounds like it's going to be a 5th. This is based on the unconfirmed reports that TJ had to play in a certain amount of games, and other assertions that it was more about him eclipsing a certain percentage of snaps.

However, to my knowledge there has NEVER been a public statement by a Texans official that says what the requirements exactly were.

I've fired off emails to a couple of Texans staff members, but haven't heard back.

*shrug*

gtexan02
01-20-2010, 03:13 PM
DT is the 2nd most missed position in the 1st round. Top 10 DTs fail almost as often as top 10 QBs. I hope we learned our lessons with TJ and AO. Stick with guys who ar eeasy to evaluate, and either trade them for proven guys or sign proven FAs to play tough to scout positions

Ole Miss Texan
01-20-2010, 03:16 PM
All I've seen is that it's based on Johnson's performance. That could mean anything from games played, to snaps, to actual stats. This is one quote I read that signified playing time as the measure. Again, like DiehardChris said, not too sure if its ever been officially reported. I view the following as speculation still.
Chargers gave up a conditional sixth-round pick in the 2010 draft that could become a fifth-rounder based on Johnson's playing time.
http://www.boltsfromtheblue.com/2009/9/1/1010227/san-diego-chargers-trade-for-dt-de?ref=yahoo

DiehardChris
01-20-2010, 03:16 PM
DT is the 2nd most missed position in the 1st round. Top 10 DTs fail almost as often as top 10 QBs. I hope we learned our lessons with TJ and AO. Stick with guys who ar eeasy to evaluate, and either trade them for proven guys or sign proven FAs to play tough to scout positions

Interesting stat. Do you have the link that has that info? It would help out some of my offseason draft coverage.

nero THE zero
01-20-2010, 03:18 PM
DT is the 2nd most missed position in the 1st round. Top 10 DTs fail almost as often as top 10 QBs. I hope we learned our lessons with TJ and AO. Stick with guys who ar eeasy to evaluate, and either trade them for proven guys or sign proven FAs to play tough to scout positions

But it's all worthwhile when you hit on your Ngata, or Henderson, or Haynesworth.

I'll gladly take an Okoye or Johnson if I can get a Ngata in the end.

Point is, if you think a DT is the best player available when you pick, you take him. If they think Price or Williams is the best player available at 19/20, then by all means, take him. You can never have enough good d-linemen, and some interior push in the pass rush is a vital ingredient that we're missing. Teams are always criticized for playing scared, I think they should be equally criticized for drafting scared. Don't draft scared, Texans.

Ole Miss Texan
01-20-2010, 03:26 PM
DT is the 2nd most missed position in the 1st round. Top 10 DTs fail almost as often as top 10 QBs. I hope we learned our lessons with TJ and AO. Stick with guys who ar eeasy to evaluate, and either trade them for proven guys or sign proven FAs to play tough to scout positions
I agree. While I'd love for us to draft a DT that comes in and becomes an absolute STUD that lifts the play of Amobi, Mario, Antonio and Barwin... I just can't get over how risky that position seems to be. I would really love it if we could get a proven player at that position that can immediately start and contribute.

I am kind of worried about our depth though. Right now Cody and Amobi are our starters. Behind them we have Zgonina and Deljuan. Zgonina is like the dude from The Terminator that just won't go away. I really like him and I think he's great backup. But the guy will be 40 going into training camp and played college ball WITH Rick Smith! I keep thinking each season is his last but he's still back, that's got to run out sometime. Also, this season is Deljuan's contract year. I heard from a reliable source that it doesn't look good he'll be staying in Houston long term. Chances are he's going to test the free agency waters and go play elsewhere. I really like him as a rotational player. So there goes our primary depth and rotation guys that really have performed admirably.

So I think DT will soon become a need position for us (if it isn't already!). Not sure what Okam's situation is. But I think we need to get a veteran to come in and we gotta draft a guy this year somewhere. Ideally I'd like to get playmakers early and then get OL/DL depth in the mid to late rounds. Maybe Smith can work his magic. Of course that's if all the FA happenings happen like I want.

dalemurphy
01-20-2010, 03:57 PM
I agree. While I'd love for us to draft a DT that comes in and becomes an absolute STUD that lifts the play of Amobi, Mario, Antonio and Barwin... I just can't get over how risky that position seems to be. I would really love it if we could get a proven player at that position that can immediately start and contribute.

I am kind of worried about our depth though. Right now Cody and Amobi are our starters. Behind them we have Zgonina and Deljuan. Zgonina is like the dude from The Terminator that just won't go away. I really like him and I think he's great backup. But the guy will be 40 going into training camp and played college ball WITH Rick Smith! I keep thinking each season is his last but he's still back, that's got to run out sometime. Also, this season is Deljuan's contract year. I heard from a reliable source that it doesn't look good he'll be staying in Houston long term. Chances are he's going to test the free agency waters and go play elsewhere. I really like him as a rotational player. So there goes our primary depth and rotation guys that really have performed admirably.

So I think DT will soon become a need position for us (if it isn't already!). Not sure what Okam's situation is. But I think we need to get a veteran to come in and we gotta draft a guy this year somewhere. Ideally I'd like to get playmakers early and then get OL/DL depth in the mid to late rounds. Maybe Smith can work his magic. Of course that's if all the FA happenings happen like I want.


Ole Miss, talk to me about your reliable source. Who and why? He'll only be a RFA this season, so they can tender him a contract in the $1.5 million range and be almost guaranteed to keep him.

HuttoKarl
01-20-2010, 04:12 PM
What I remember was being at the draft party with Dante and Lauren and the majority of the place, us included, were less than thrilled with 1st the decision to trade down and then to select TJ. At the time it was Derrick Johnson most people there seemed to be drooling over, that or a LT like Brown.

If i remember correctly, there was also an iss with TJ regarding mental health regarding his passion for the game. Something about maybe ADHD or something and needing to take his meds.

I remember wanting DJ and getting TJ....perhaps Casserly misheard his scouts and wrote the wrong name down?

No More 8-8's
01-20-2010, 04:20 PM
I cant believe we thought Travis Johnson was high first round pick. The only thing "high" about him now is his blood pressure.

Thorn
01-20-2010, 04:50 PM
Actually I think San Diego wants a 5th or 6th from us for taking TJ off our hands. I'd say it was worth it!

LOL, that's funny! Sad, but really made me laugh.

badboy
01-20-2010, 05:00 PM
I hope I can move my 6A guy to 5B and my 6B to 6A. There are some good candidates in 5th.

HuttoKarl
01-20-2010, 05:12 PM
Maybe we can draft a kicker with the extra pick.

rush2112mn
01-20-2010, 09:00 PM
Maybe we can draft a kicker with the extra pick.

Draft or get one through free agency......

As far as Travis Johnson is concerned I am hoping for a 5th...but I bet it turns out be a 6th......

Lucky
01-20-2010, 11:01 PM
Ole Miss, talk to me about your reliable source. Who and why? He'll only be a RFA this season, so they can tender him a contract in the $1.5 million range and be almost guaranteed to keep him.
And the Texans would be silly not to offer DelJuan the 2nd round tender, in an uncapped season. It wouldn't be guaranteed, so if he doesn't make the roster it's no loss.

m5kwatts
01-20-2010, 11:03 PM
So nobody has an actual answer to the original question? Is it a 5th or 6th rounder? I think it has to be a 5th based on how many games he was active.

Ole Miss Texan
01-20-2010, 11:49 PM
And the Texans would be silly not to offer DelJuan the 2nd round tender, in an uncapped season. It wouldn't be guaranteed, so if he doesn't make the roster it's no loss.
He's quality depth and great to have as part of the rotation. He earned $385K during 2009. No team will trade a 2nd round pick for him so we'd be forced to pay him $1.3MM during 2010 or cut him. I think this would be backing ourselves into a corner.

So nobody has an actual answer to the original question? Is it a 5th or 6th rounder? I think it has to be a 5th based on how many games he was active.
The answer is we don't know. We don't know if its ever been publicly disclosed. The draft pick is a condition to performance. That could mean games played, snaps played or actual statistical measures (tackles, sacks, hurries, etc).

m5kwatts
01-20-2010, 11:51 PM
He's quality depth and great to have as part of the rotation. He earned $385K during 2009. No team will trade a 2nd round pick for him so we'd be forced to pay him $1.3MM during 2010 or cut him. I think this would be backing ourselves into a corner.


The answer is we don't know. We don't know if its ever been publicly disclosed. The draft pick is a condition to performance. That could mean games played, snaps played or actual statistical measures (tackles, sacks, hurries, etc).

Anyone know when we'll find out? After the Super Bowl at the soonest I assume...

DiehardChris
01-21-2010, 12:03 AM
Anyone know when we'll find out? After the Super Bowl at the soonest I assume...

I'm workin' on it, man. As are others. When we find out we will put it out there if it doesn't get public first.

Mike Kerns
01-21-2010, 09:28 AM
I'm workin' on it, man. As are others. When we find out we will put it out there if it doesn't get public first.

Yeah, me and BFD were talking to Nick Scurfield yesterday on his twitter trying to figure it out...even he doesn't know.

infantrycak
01-21-2010, 10:22 AM
The answer is we don't know. We don't know if its ever been publicly disclosed. The draft pick is a condition to performance. That could mean games played, snaps played or actual statistical measures (tackles, sacks, hurries, etc).

Rumor has it the deal was conditioned on 30 or 33% of snaps and TJ well exceeded that playing about 50% of snaps.

HuttoKarl
01-21-2010, 10:49 AM
Draft or get one through free agency......

As far as Travis Johnson is concerned I am hoping for a 5th...but I bet it turns out be a 6th......

I was kinda joking (in a hopeful manner, anyway) about drafting a kicker with the extra pick.

I fully expect Brown back to keep us popping Rolaids on FG and PAT attempts another year.

Texans_Chick
01-21-2010, 06:40 PM
This is the response I got to that question from someone with the Texans:

From the way I understand it, itís still undetermined because we havenít received a report on the percentage of snaps Travis participated in Ė he had to hit a certain threshold for us to get a 5th-round pick. Not sure when that will be determined.

As of 1/8