PDA

View Full Version : Possible 1st round draft picks for the Texans.


Wolf6151
01-17-2010, 11:44 PM
I came up with the idea that every week on Sunday evening I'd start a thread about realistic possible draft picks by round. We can each post players that we feel are appropriate for that round and why and what effect they'd have on the Texans.

:texflag: Possible 1st round draft picks for the Texans: (Realistic)

1. Earl Thomas-FS, great speed and ball skills though he lacks some height. I think this guy is a distinct possibility and would make a great ballhawking FS to pair with Pollard thus making our Safety positions set for years to come. He'd be of great help to our CB's.

2. Taylor Mays-FS, this guy is a possiblity but I sure hope that we don't take him since he lacks the ball skills we need in a FS. He seems to go for the big hit and not the interception or pass deflection. He's got great size and speed but I think he'd be a better SS or possibly a WLB.

3. Brian Price-DT, 6'02 and 300 lbs. with good penetration ability and seems to me to be more of an UT than a NT. I think we're looking for a NT since we've already go Okoye at UT. I never saw any UCLA games this year but watched his YouTube highlight videos and was unimpressed. For every good play he made there was one where he's pushed laterally and out of the play. He does seem to fit Kollars system of smaller quicker DT's though.

4. Dan Williams-DT/NT, 6'03" and 325 lbs. possibly gone by the time we pick but maybe not. He'd make a great NT in our system, taking up 2 blockers and freeing up Okoye and Smith to make penetration. I'm tired of spending 1st round picks on the D-line but this guy could solidify our line for years to come.

5. Mike Iupati-OG, 6'05" and 330 lbs. this guy is big which doesn't seem to fit our ZBS system but he is also very agile and fit, he's not a big fat guy taking up space. He also seems to have alot of lower body strength where an OG needs it in his legs. His height worries me though, being tall will allow shorter DT's to get under his pads and stand him up.

6. C.J. Spiller-RB, Kubiak stated that they were going to work on the running game this offseason which means RB's and O-linemen. Now I'm not sure they're ready to give up on Slaton after one bad year but Spiller would be perfect for the one cut and go ZBS system. Great speed and quickness. He's not my personal choice in the 1st round but I wouldn't be against it either.

7. Jonathan Dwyer-RB, some may not agree that he's a possibility in the 1st round but this guy most likely won't be available by the time we pick in the 2nd. He'll probably go later 1st or very early 2nd round. Good speed and a larger size that should allow him to take more of the NFL pounding than Spiller.

8. Trent Williams-OT, the Texans want to improve the running game this offseason so working on the O-line is a distinct possibility in the early part of the draft, he's not LT material but could be a possibility at RT if the Texans were to move Eric Winston to RG. Winston didn't have a great year at RT this season so it's a possibility.

9. Bryan Bulaga-OT, same explanation as Trent Williams but this guy could play either LT or RT thus moving Duane Brown inside to LG, doubtful but it's a possibility.

10. Donovan Warren-CB, I never saw this guy play but he's very highly rated with great speed and we sure need help at CB. This pick all depends on whether or not Dunta stays or leaves. I'd sure like to see an upgrade at CB but this isn't the year for it, there aren't very many guys that will be a future #1 CB in this draft.

Let's hear your opinions, other realistic players. Next week I'll post possibilities for the 2nd round if it seems that people here like this idea, so start reading up. This should keep us busy for 7 weeks. :)

bah007
01-18-2010, 12:01 AM
Here are some guys I've been keeping an eye on who could be around when we select. Looks like you already covered them. I've listed them in the order I covet them. I don't think RB needs to be addressed in the first round and I think that we will most likely be targeting the interior OL or the secondary.

Earl Thomas - FS, Texas: Ballhawking FS who can play centerfield but also excels in man coverage. Better than Eric Berry against the pass, but will he hold up against NFL blockers and RBs? Could be off the board when we pick.

Mike Iupati - G, Idaho: I think he would work in our system. People tend to get too hung up on size when thinking about the ZBS. You can be big and still move well.

Donovan Warren - CB, Michigan: The second best CB in this draft, IMO. He doesn't hit quite like Dunta but he can wrap up a guy and finish him off. Great playmaker in zone coverage. Haden and Lindley are probably the only guys that are better in man.

Brian Price - DT, UCLA: Great player. I have him ranked as my #3 DT. I think he would work well in our style of defense. I think the people on this board are a little bit obsessed with the idea of getting a big NT into the middle of our defense but I disagree. I think we need DTs that can shoot gaps and disrupt the passing game.

Dan Williams - DT, Tennessee: Williams can play in the middle of a 43 or a 34. Not much of a threat in the pass rush but he would hold blocks in the running game.

Texan4Ever
01-18-2010, 11:01 AM
I watched a few Michigan football games and overall, with coaching, Donovan Warren has the potential to become a solid cornerback. He hails from a school that has produced good DBs like Charles Woodson and Leon Hall and so I can expect him to bring his A-game day in and day out. I feel that he shouldv'e stayed in school for one more year to hone his skills but if we can grab him in the 2nd or 3rd round then we have a steal.

UCLAs Brian Price is another solid defensive tackle even through his stats may not be THAT impressive, Price is a good UT and can get after the quarterback. We already have Amobi Okoye so we should pass on Price.

Dan Williams would be nice because we need a space eating DT who can take on blockers and allow Okoye to go one-on-one with the opposing linemen. I doub't he lasts by the time we draft him because there are a few teams ahead of us that need a NT, but if he is there then we should consider it.

Mike Iupati is an absolute beast and I think he may become a solid All-Pro guard even through he comes from a small school. He is massive yet nimble enough that he can get a good push on defensive linemen and open up nice holes. He has a 1st round grade but I doubt he gets picked up untill the early 2nd, however, with the NFL Draft you never know...

The Sooners Trent Williams played a bit of center during a few games and I'd like to see him continue to play that position because its always nice to have a linemen who can play multiple positions well (a la Bruce Matthews :fingergun:)

badboy
01-18-2010, 01:09 PM
Here's my thinking, Iupati is high for #20 but I would take him and not look back. My concerns for him in the ZBS is long term capability. Will he make 16 games? If he could split time with Pitts, all right, I guess. I think he will be gone by our pick in round two. If you have a "dire need" position and your guy will quite possibly be gone by your next pick, I say pull the trigger.

That is why I have Gerhart in 1st on my board. I love this guy and I think Dwyer will also be gone by our second and so might Anthony Dixon. Scott was hurt & I am a bit leery of him. I had read that TG had said he would petition Stanford for a fifth year of eligibility if NFL advisory did not give him a first round rating. He came out.

nero THE zero
01-18-2010, 01:14 PM
I don't think there's any way in the world the Texans would entertain drafting a T in the 1st (unless they have designs on moving him to G.) Winston and Brown are both entrenched at the T spots.

My tentative list for possible round 1 Texans right now would be:
Earl Thomas
Donovan Warren
Brian Price
Dan Williams
Jonathan Dwyer
Ryan Matthews
Dez Bryant

b0ng
01-18-2010, 01:33 PM
I don't think there's any way in the world the Texans would entertain drafting a T in the 1st (unless they have designs on moving him to G.) Winston and Brown are both entrenched at the T spots.

My tentative list for possible round 1 Texans right now would be:
Earl Thomas
Donovan Warren
Brian Price
Dan Williams
Jonathan Dwyer
Ryan Matthews
Dez Bryant

I think you just gotta put Iupati on this list. He at least has as much of a chance at being drafted as Bryant.

Wolf6151
01-18-2010, 03:18 PM
I don't think there's any way in the world the Texans would entertain drafting a T in the 1st (unless they have designs on moving him to G.) Winston and Brown are both entrenched at the T spots.

My tentative list for possible round 1 Texans right now would be:
Earl Thomas
Donovan Warren
Brian Price
Dan Williams
Jonathan Dwyer
Ryan Matthews
Dez Bryant


Unfortunately I think your right about the Texans moving Winston or Brown. Neither Winston or Brown are stud OT's. Picking a stud OT that might fall to us would be filling 2 spots with one pick by moving Winston or Brown inside. It makes sense so naturally I don't think the Texans would even consider it. I forgot about Dez Bryant, he's a 1st round consideration, but I hope we don't go that route. I'm thinking Ryan Matthews is a 2nd round consideration but we all have differing opinions. I could see taking him if we traded down to the high 20's.

beerlover
01-18-2010, 05:25 PM
Spiller hands down if available.

Earl Thomas clear cut 2nd best option.

then it gets very interesting. for this discussion lets assume both are off the board by 19/20.

lets also assume the Texans re-sign Dunta Robinson, to a resonable contract.

who address biggest need & who is the best player fit for Texans?

Brian Price, DT UCLA would be a great fit. premium size 6-2 300 lbs. productive numbers 23 1/2 tackles for loss and seven sacks, value with early entry. This would give the Texans increased QB pressure & prevent them from getting overpowered @ the line of scrimmage. Expect our sack numbers to finally reflect the emphasis placed on these building blocks. http://www.pe.com/imagesdaily/2008/10-05/ucla05amcb_400.jpg

Mike Iupati, OG Utah 6-5 330. massive interior lineman for the ZBS but creates much needed interior strength & mass to push on nose/bigger DT's both in short yardage, goaline stands & added pass protection for Schaub. Also enables new OL coach Benton to move around players to respective strengths to help overall OL performance. http://media.mlive.com/its-just-sports/photo/mikeiupatijpg-0608aeb80e2431b9_medium.jpg

Recap if the skilled player defensive or offensive is off the board look for the Texans to address either line of scrimmage to enforce the trenches.

playa465
01-18-2010, 05:39 PM
Unfortunately I think your right about the Texans moving Winston or Brown. Neither Winston or Brown are stud OT's. Picking a stud OT that might fall to us would be filling 2 spots with one pick by moving Winston or Brown inside. It makes sense so naturally I don't think the Texans would even consider it.

Agreed but also I don't think Kubiak would ever start a rookie on the OL unless he absolutely had too.

Big Poundcake
01-18-2010, 05:42 PM
Earl Thomas or Dez Bryant for me.

Jackie Chiles
01-18-2010, 09:31 PM
There are quite a few players that I would be pleased with at 19/20.

At safety either Mays or Thomas. Historically it is rare for 3 safety's to be selected in the top 20 so we could have a shot at one of them. I know a lot of people are down on Mays but after what we got in Cushing I wouldn't hesitate to go back to the USC well. Polamalu didn't have great INT numbers at SC either. Mays won't be Polamalu good but I think he is going to be a very very good pro.

At DT Brian Price or Dan Williams would be fine with me. I prefer Price though and I think he fits better.

At CB I would be alright with Donovan Warren and I am starting to come around on Patrick Robinson. Just a gut feeling but I think he will also be a better pro than college player.

Iupati is probably the only O-lineman I would want at that spot.

Spiller would be great at RB and I wouldn't mind Jahvid Best.

Keep in mind these are only players I think have a chance at being available but thats 9 players right there I could live with. Haven't looked at the trade value charts but I also wouldn't mind trading completely out of the first, maybe with the Patriots or some other team with multiple 2nd round picks.

WolverineFan
01-18-2010, 10:01 PM
Here are some guys I've been keeping an eye on who could be around when we select. Looks like you already covered them. I've listed them in the order I covet them. I don't think RB needs to be addressed in the first round and I think that we will most likely be targeting the interior OL or the secondary.

Earl Thomas - FS, Texas: Ballhawking FS who can play centerfield but also excels in man coverage. Better than Eric Berry against the pass, but will he hold up against NFL blockers and RBs? Could be off the board when we pick.

Mike Iupati - G, Idaho: I think he would work in our system. People tend to get too hung up on size when thinking about the ZBS. You can be big and still move well.

Donovan Warren - CB, Michigan: The second best CB in this draft, IMO. He doesn't hit quite like Dunta but he can wrap up a guy and finish him off. Great playmaker in zone coverage. Haden and Lindley are probably the only guys that are better in man.

Brian Price - DT, UCLA: Great player. I have him ranked as my #3 DT. I think he would work well in our style of defense. I think the people on this board are a little bit obsessed with the idea of getting a big NT into the middle of our defense but I disagree. I think we need DTs that can shoot gaps and disrupt the passing game.

Dan Williams - DT, Tennessee: Williams can play in the middle of a 43 or a 34. Not much of a threat in the pass rush but he would hold blocks in the running game.

Earl Thomas - Thomas has all the skills to succeed in the NFL he just lacks ideal size. He should have won the Thorpe this year and I think he will have a great NFL career. He is also my #1 option right now.

Mike Iupati - He would not make an immediate impact but would be a good option to replace Pitts in a year or two. The ZBS is complicated to learn but he is very capable of playing within the scheme.

Donovan Warren - I am also high on him. He started as a true freshman at UM and he played very well every year. For those that think he should have gone back for his senior year you need to watch some more film of this kid. He is legit.

Brian Price - If we hadn't already taken TJ and Okoye in the 1st round in recent years then I would like this pick, but I'm just so tired of wasting picks on DT's. The D-Line actually played pretty well this year and I feel we should add a FA or take a guy later in the draft.

Dan Williams - See Price above. Also, I agree we don't necessarily need a space eating NT. We need a guy who will be effective in the scheme. If he can shoot gaps then he can play in our defense.

badboy
01-19-2010, 01:41 PM
Agreed but also I don't think Kubiak would ever start a rookie on the OL unless he absolutely had too.He did just last season with Duane Brown so the history is there.

Goldensilence
01-19-2010, 02:59 PM
He did just last season with Duane Brown so the history is there.

Very true. I'm just hoping that with his job on the line Kubiak is forced to think a lot differently then he has before as far as his roster choices go.

The guys I have as first round picks.

Spiller - Franchise RB? I don't know, but he's explosive in all phases of the game running, catching, and on returns.

Earl Thomas - He's what we probably need at FS, for the first time a guy that can man up on the outisde and play center fielder.

Iupati - Stuck between him being my first round choice. I think if we plug him in at either guard, Caldwell at the other and look at center later in the draft we've got our line situated for a while. We can get the push we need up the middle for whomever is at RB.

Dez Bryant - Slowly starting to think this is who I would target if he drops then look for a interior OL in the second.

Ok just think about it for a moment. This pick is the only reason I'd let Walter walk via FA, but look at the top 3 WRs. AJ, Dez, and JJ. Then you've got to consider a healthy OD into the mix. In the secondary who are you going to cover? And with who? You obviously can't stack the box now and you've always got to be aware that either of those 4 can break a big play.

If we can keep the same level of defensive play I think we'd be a tough team to beat because our offense could set the game's pace. Force opposing offenses to keep up and in the mean time with a healthy Mario back, Smith's motor and Barwin's speed all being able to pin their ears back and go after the QB. Don't forget Cushing can come on a blitz as well.

badboy
01-19-2010, 03:45 PM
Very true. I'm just hoping that with his job on the line Kubiak is forced to think a lot differently then he has before as far as his roster choices go.

The guys I have as first round picks.

Spiller - Franchise RB? I don't know, but he's explosive in all phases of the game running, catching, and on returns.

Earl Thomas - He's what we probably need at FS, for the first time a guy that can man up on the outisde and play center fielder.

Iupati - Stuck between him being my first round choice. I think if we plug him in at either guard, Caldwell at the other and look at center later in the draft we've got our line situated for a while. We can get the push we need up the middle for whomever is at RB.

Dez Bryant - Slowly starting to think this is who I would target if he drops then look for a interior OL in the second.

Ok just think about it for a moment. This pick is the only reason I'd let Walter walk via FA, but look at the top 3 WRs. AJ, Dez, and JJ. Then you've got to consider a healthy OD into the mix. In the secondary who are you going to cover? And with who? You obviously can't stack the box now and you've always got to be aware that either of those 4 can break a big play.

If we can keep the same level of defensive play I think we'd be a tough team to beat because our offense could set the game's pace. Force opposing offenses to keep up and in the mean time with a healthy Mario back, Smith's motor and Barwin's speed all being able to pin their ears back and go after the QB. Don't forget Cushing can come on a blitz as well.If Dez Bryant is there and Earl Thomas is not my thought will be "Please, pretty please some team that needs a WR please trade up." :runaway:

Ole Miss Texan
01-19-2010, 04:00 PM
Dez Bryant reminds me of a more polished Jacoby Jones. While I think it'd be awesome to have him on the offense, I think by re-signing Walter you save yourself a draft pick (a 1st rounder at that).

However, if we've got him rated as a Top 10 / elite calibre type of player and the other players on the board aren't rated near as high... then I'm not going to argue with the selection.

playa465
01-19-2010, 04:57 PM
He did just last season with Duane Brown so the history is there.

True the facts speak for itself... however I bet if Salaam hadn't had knee issues and the arthroscopic surgery, Brown would have been brought along slowly...at that time Kubiak HAD to start Brown.

b0ng
01-19-2010, 05:21 PM
True the facts speak for itself... however I bet if Salaam hadn't had knee issues and the arthroscopic surgery, Brown would have been brought along slowly...at that time Kubiak HAD to start Brown.

Well you can guess and surmise but in the end, there has not been a 1st round pick that didn't start in week 1 under Kubiak. So if we go OL in the first my guess is that they feel the player will be good enough to supplant a current starter and take over.

I haven't really seen that in any of the OL outside of Iupati (Which I still think would have to have a long battle with Pitts, Briesel and Caldwell to get snaps.), but I can always be surprised.

Wolf6151
01-19-2010, 05:31 PM
I like Dez Bryant, I think he would be a wonderful weapon to add to the offense but I also see him as a luxury pick that we just can't afford right now. We've got holes on the O-line and secondary that need to be filled first.

Someone mentioned Jahvid Best as a possible 1st round pick. I like his running style and either he or Spiller would be perfect for our one cut and go system. If we traded down in the 1st then I wouldn't mind him late in the 1st.

beerlover
01-19-2010, 11:08 PM
I like Dez Bryant, I think he would be a wonderful weapon to add to the offense but I also see him as a luxury pick that we just can't afford right now. We've got holes on the O-line and secondary that need to be filled first.

Someone mentioned Jahvid Best as a possible 1st round pick. I like his running style and either he or Spiller would be perfect for our one cut and go system. If we traded down in the 1st then I wouldn't mind him late in the 1st.

there is no such thing as a luxury pick if that said person improves a position on the team, that's an upgrade which is what it's all about :specnatz:

steelbtexan
01-19-2010, 11:18 PM
there is no such thing as a luxury pick if that said person improves a position on the team, that's an upgrade which is what it's all about :specnatz:

True

Ole Miss Texan
01-20-2010, 08:54 AM
there is no such thing as a luxury pick if that said person improves a position on the team, that's an upgrade which is what it's all about :specnatz:
I think what he meant was that WR isn't really a position of need (assuming we have the same players on the roster). The thought that if you're addressing a position that doesn't need to be addressed, then it could be considered a luxury pick. That you're succeeding with with what you have now and that it could actually be considered a strength. With that said, I'm a believer that you upgrade a position/your team any way you can. Who knows if you're going to have the same opportunity over the next few years. If you're getting a superstar like Andre Johnson... that would be huge!

There's one draft theory about building a 'super unit'. It could be about building a team, in general. But instead of getting above average, quality guys all around. You stock up on extremely great talent at one position. You build a super unit that forces opposing teams to spend the vast majority of their time gameplanning against and still having trouble defeating it. With this theory, and going back to your original post.... it wouldn't be a luxury pick at all. It would be a necessity to get your team to the level you want!

nero THE zero
01-20-2010, 09:02 AM
It's really a moot discussion. Bryant is already being touted as better than Crabtree was last year, he's a virtual lock to go in the top 10.

That said, we really have Andre Johnson and a bunch of guys. DA and Jacoby will obviously be here, barring trade. But, Walter is a FA and Andre Davis is a prime candidate to be cut given the CBA situation. Unless you're sold on Jacoby as a number 2, which I'm not, there's absolutely no reason you'd pass up a premiere talent like Dez Bryant simply because you have other (or even greater) needs.

steelbtexan
01-20-2010, 09:40 AM
I think what he meant was that WR isn't really a position of need (assuming we have the same players on the roster). The thought that if you're addressing a position that doesn't need to be addressed, then it could be considered a luxury pick. That you're succeeding with with what you have now and that it could actually be considered a strength. With that said, I'm a believer that you upgrade a position/your team any way you can. Who knows if you're going to have the same opportunity over the next few years. If you're getting a superstar like Andre Johnson... that would be huge!

There's one draft theory about building a 'super unit'. It could be about building a team, in general. But instead of getting above average, quality guys all around. You stock up on extremely great talent at one position. You build a super unit that forces opposing teams to spend the vast majority of their time gameplanning against and still having trouble defeating it. With this theory, and going back to your original post.... it wouldn't be a luxury pick at all. It would be a necessity to get your team to the level you want!


The Texans should build a super unit on offense. If you upgrade the offense the defense is good enough to win with. With a few tweaks.

I believe the only way to beat the Mannings is to develop an offense that can score points with the Colts. A great offense also keeps Manning off the field. Thereby limiting his effectiveness.

The Texans defense is almost on par with the Colts defense. IMO

Smithiak need to upgrade the offense. IMO

TexCanada
01-20-2010, 11:14 AM
The Texans should build a super unit on offense. If you upgrade the offense the defense is good enough to win with. With a few tweaks.

I believe the only way to beat the Mannings is to develop an offense that can score points with the Colts. A great offense also keeps Manning off the field. Thereby limiting his effectiveness.

The Texans defense is almost on par with the Colts defense. IMO

Smithiak need to upgrade the offense. IMO

To keep Manning off the field we need to improve our run game and O-line, not take a top receiver in the first round.

Ole Miss Texan
01-20-2010, 11:23 AM
The Texans should build a super unit on offense. If you upgrade the offense the defense is good enough to win with. With a few tweaks.

I believe the only way to beat the Mannings is to develop an offense that can score points with the Colts. A great offense also keeps Manning off the field. Thereby limiting his effectiveness.

The Texans defense is almost on par with the Colts defense. IMO

Smithiak need to upgrade the offense. IMO

I'd be onboard with it. We've got a really good offense right now, a few key additions and I think we'd be really great. Obviously getting the running game is a KEY instruement in having a great offense as well as keeping Manning off the field. With our team, I am also in favor of the pass to set up the run strategy... because it works. Our strength is the passing game. We had the 30th ranked rushing offense last year... only ahead of who? San Diego and Indianapolis. With that rushing game... we still successfuly passed the ball! Teams KNEW what we were doing and couldn't stop us!

In our case we've got a great passing game. We should pass pass pass. What happens is that the opposing defenses will consistently have an extra DB in to cover the pass and one less LB or guy on the DL. And that's when its easier to run successfully against teams than when there are 7-8 in the box, all of whom weigh 250+ and strength is tackling!

steelbtexan
01-20-2010, 11:29 AM
To keep Manning off the field we need to improve our run game and O-line, not take a top receiver in the first round.

Agreed

I would try to trade down.

beerlover
01-20-2010, 11:31 AM
I'd be onboard with it. We've got a really good offense right now, a few key additions and I think we'd be really great. Obviously getting the running game is a KEY instruement in having a great offense as well as keeping Manning off the field. With our team, I am also in favor of the pass to set up the run strategy... because it works. Our strength is the passing game. We had the 30th ranked rushing offense last year... only ahead of who? San Diego and Indianapolis. With that rushing game... we still successfuly passed the ball! Teams KNEW what we were doing and couldn't stop us!

In our case we've got a great passing game. We should pass pass pass. What happens is that the opposing defenses will consistently have an extra DB in to cover the pass and one less LB or guy on the DL. And that's when its easier to run successfully against teams than when there are 7-8 in the box, all of whom weigh 250+ and strength is tackling!

Just how great is this Texans offense if Andre Johnson/Matt Schaub or both get hurt? I don't like to think about it but it's a huge drop off either position, thats a fragile thing not discussed but has to be on Kubiak & Rick Smiths mind :headhurts:

Corrosion
01-20-2010, 11:41 AM
To keep Manning off the field we need to improve our run game and O-line, not take a top receiver in the first round.

While I agree with the premise - and for me fixing the interior OL is a very high priority this offseason -

That didnt help the Fish much earlier this season when they held the rock for over 45 minutes. The Colts managed only 14 total first downs in the game and still managed to put up 27 points and a Win.

Here's the box score (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=20090921015) from that game.

To beat the Dolts you need to do more than just control the clock - You have to disrupt Pey-Me-A-Ton. Get guy's in his face early and often and
be physical with those recievers , not allow them off the line of scrimmage without some disruption to the route's timing.

Last but not least - You have to continue to put up points even if you are up two or three scores. No lead is safe from that bastard.

Just how great is this Texans offense if Andre Johnson/Matt Schaub or both get hurt? I don't like to think about it but it's a huge drop off either position, thats a fragile thing not discussed but has to be on Kubiak & Rick Smiths mind :headhurts:

The same could be said for most any team in the NFL - the drop off from starting QB to the #2 is usually pretty big.
In the case of AJ - he's the teams best player ...

badboy
01-20-2010, 12:12 PM
True the facts speak for itself... however I bet if Salaam hadn't had knee issues and the arthroscopic surgery, Brown would have been brought along slowly...at that time Kubiak HAD to start Brown.My memory is Brown was told immediately after being drafted he would start and Salaam mentioned his disappointment in newspaper and on TV. He wanted Kubes to say best person playing would start season. Kubes replied Brown will start. I believe Duane was pulled in 3rd game and Salaam played most of that game but Brown started 4th. May be wrong on that game.

badboy
01-20-2010, 12:20 PM
While I agree with the premise - and for me fixing the interior OL is a very high priority this offseason -

That didnt help the Fish much earlier this season when they held the rock for over 45 minutes. The Colts managed only 14 total first downs in the game and still managed to put up 27 points and a Win.

Here's the box score (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=20090921015) from that game.

To beat the Dolts you need to do more than just control the clock - You have to disrupt Pey-Me-A-Ton. Get guy's in his face early and often and
be physical with those recievers , not allow them off the line of scrimmage without some disruption to the route's timing.

Last but not least - You have to continue to put up points even if you are up two or three scores. No lead is safe from that bastard.



The same could be said for most any team in the NFL - the drop off from starting QB to the #2 is usually pretty big.
In the case of AJ - he's the teams best player ...It also helps if your grass causes injury to their wide receivers. :dancer:

Goldensilence
01-20-2010, 12:20 PM
To keep Manning off the field we need to improve our run game and O-line, not take a top receiver in the first round.

Yeah but as others have pointed out the drop off at WR is a chasm after AJ and you have to put points on the board with the Colts.

the other things I'd say is yeah, we have to keep up with the Colts no doubt, but would either the Jags or Titans be able to play the kind of ball they'd like to if they are playing from behind consistently? Force them to keep up with our offense and make Garrard and Young throw the ball as opposed to handing the ball of the MJD and Chris Johnson.

Also if we give Schaub another target we don't have to settle for FGs as often and let Brown shank important FGs.

If it was up to me I'd probably take Iupati at G in the first round and not look back, but if, and that's likely a BIG IF, Bryant is still there run up the podium and select the guy. Top off the passing game. Force teams to keep up with our offensive pace.

Corrosion
01-20-2010, 12:29 PM
If it was up to me I'd probably take Iupati at G in the first round and not look back, but if, and that's likely a BIG IF, Bryant is still there run up the podium and select the guy. Top off the passing game. Force teams to keep up with our offensive pace.


Ive stated before that Iupati is my first choice but if Bryant or one of the top safety's happened to still on the board at that time it would most deffinately be a difficult decision

Blake
01-20-2010, 01:11 PM
I really like the idea of FS Earl Thomas, or OG Mike Iupati. But I am not going to count out NT Dan Williams, or a CB like Patrick Robinson, or Perrish Cox.

We will just have to see when the cream rises to the top.

TexCanada
01-20-2010, 01:24 PM
Yeah but as others have pointed out the drop off at WR is a chasm after AJ and you have to put points on the board with the Colts.

the other things I'd say is yeah, we have to keep up with the Colts no doubt, but would either the Jags or Titans be able to play the kind of ball they'd like to if they are playing from behind consistently? Force them to keep up with our offense and make Garrard and Young throw the ball as opposed to handing the ball of the MJD and Chris Johnson.
Also if we give Schaub another target we don't have to settle for FGs as often and let Brown shank important FGs.

If it was up to me I'd probably take Iupati at G in the first round and not look back, but if, and that's likely a BIG IF, Bryant is still there run up the podium and select the guy. Top off the passing game. Force teams to keep up with our offensive pace.

I'm not saying that we don't need a WR, I'm just saying to whoever made the original point about keeping Peyton off the field that we would need to improve the run game more than the passing game.

Personally for me I would rather address the defense once again with our first pick. I would love to take Price but I'm too scared of DTs in the first round given our history. My top choice would be Earl Thomas, so hopefully he is still around when we pick. It will largely depend on what teams are thinking about Mays though. I would guess that 2 of the 3 top safeties will be gone by our pick, so it depends if Mays goes before Thomas or not.

TexCanada
01-20-2010, 01:26 PM
I think the chances of Dez being around by our pick are almost none. I can't see Denver passing him up since Marshall will likely be gone this off-season.

Blake
01-20-2010, 01:26 PM
Since the Kubiak era, the Texans first 2 picks each year have been (DE/LB) (DT/WR) (OT/CB) (LB/DE)

Thats 6 defensive players, and 2 offensive players. Whatever they decide to do, you know at least 1, possibly both will be defenders.

We had major injuries at the OG spot. Dunta Robinson might not be coming back. NT needs help since TJ left the building, and safety has been an issue since day 1.

That makes our biggest needs CB/FS/NT/OG

So it makes the most sense to focus on defense again in rounds 1 and 2.

In rounds 3/4 you can focus on a RB and OL.

Texecutioner
01-20-2010, 01:37 PM
I'm not saying that we don't need a WR, I'm just saying to whoever made the original point about keeping Peyton off the field that we would need to improve the run game more than the passing game.

Personally for me I would rather address the defense once again with our first pick. I would love to take Price but I'm too scared of DTs in the first round given our history. My top choice would be Earl Thomas, so hopefully he is still around when we pick. It will largely depend on what teams are thinking about Mays though. I would guess that 2 of the 3 top safeties will be gone by our pick, so it depends if Mays goes before Thomas or not.

Exactly. The Texans still have plenty of holes on defense. In this league it's much easier to win consistently with a stout defense and I'd like to see the Texans move into that direction. With Schaub and Johnson out there, the Texans don't need a ton of awsome play makers on offense. They just need a good RB that has good blocking and some other WR's that can get things done.

We've got to stack the defense. I want Earl Thomas. The guy does everything well at Safety, and he'd be the #1 safety coming out if he played another season in college. I want that guy badly if we can get him. I want a top play making safety to play along side of Pollard. If there is a really good CB available then I'd take that as well. I don't like the CB's we have. They're servicable, but that's about it. I wish we could get a better upgrade at DT through free agency or through a trade.

beerlover
01-20-2010, 01:54 PM
The same could be said for most any team in the NFL - the drop off from starting QB to the #2 is usually pretty big.
In the case of AJ - he's the teams best player ...

So what if Matt Schaub who is now playing in the Pro-Bowl (congratualtions) sustains a grade 3 shoulder seperation, you think the Texans draft board doesn't flip upside down?

TexCanada
01-20-2010, 02:04 PM
So what if Matt Schaub who is now playing in the Pro-Bowl (congratualtions) sustains a grade 3 shoulder seperation, you think the Texans draft board doesn't flip upside down?

The "What If?" game can be played all day long. You could say this about any position on our team.

Goldensilence
01-20-2010, 02:15 PM
I'm not saying that we don't need a WR, I'm just saying to whoever made the original point about keeping Peyton off the field that we would need to improve the run game more than the passing game.

Personally for me I would rather address the defense once again with our first pick. I would love to take Price but I'm too scared of DTs in the first round given our history. My top choice would be Earl Thomas, so hopefully he is still around when we pick. It will largely depend on what teams are thinking about Mays though. I would guess that 2 of the 3 top safeties will be gone by our pick, so it depends if Mays goes before Thomas or not.

Though I think we need to do more than just focus on beating the Colts. As Corrosion pointed out keeping Manning off the field isn't enough if you don't score points as well. We've had problems on getting into the endzone once we get into the RZ. I think adding an OL that will help the offense hold the LOS would be big or adding another threat outside would create mismatch problems with opposing defenses.

I absolutely DO NOT want a DT in the first round. Am I a bit disappointed with the production we've gotten out of our DTs? Yes. But that doesn't mean I want or think that throwing another DT to the rotation will help.

If Thomas is there and we snag him I'll be happy that we're going to get a true play making FS for once in the history of the franchise.

I still think we'd be better served putting our offense into overdrive and being able to score at will whether that is improving the OL, RB or landing Dez Bryant, again IF he's there.

steelbtexan
01-20-2010, 02:22 PM
Since the Kubiak era, the Texans first 2 picks each year have been (DE/LB) (DT/WR) (OT/CB) (LB/DE)

Thats 6 defensive players, and 2 offensive players. Whatever they decide to do, you know at least 1, possibly both will be defenders.

We had major injuries at the OG spot. Dunta Robinson might not be coming back. NT needs help since TJ left the building, and safety has been an issue since day 1.

That makes our biggest needs CB/FS/NT/OG

So it makes the most sense to focus on defense again in rounds 1 and 2.

In rounds 3/4 you can focus on a RB and OL.

I wish Smithiak would go offense but looking at their past draft record I think you are right the probably will go defense in at least the 1st rd and probably in rd 2 also.

They need to get Schaub some protection and help in the running game in the worst way though. IMO

Blake
01-20-2010, 02:32 PM
I wish Smithiak would go offense but looking at their past draft record I think you are right the probably will go defense in at least the 1st rd and probably in rd 2 also.

They need to get Schaub some protection and help in the running game in the worst way though. IMO

Same here. If we miss out on Earl Thomas, I would love to get Matt some help on the OL, then we can focus on CB or FS in the 2nd round. Also depends on what we do in FA.

infantrycak
01-20-2010, 05:27 PM
Since the Kubiak era, the Texans first 2 picks each year have been (DE/LB) (DT/WR) (OT/CB) (LB/DE)

More accurately that would be DE/LB, DT/QB, OT/QB, LB/DE.

5 D picks and 3 O picks.

Now if you go 1st 3 rounds you get - DE/LB/OT/OT, DT/QB/WR, OT/QB/CB/RB, LB/DE/C.

Looks like 6 D picks and 8 O picks.

WolverineFan
01-21-2010, 01:26 AM
I like Dez Bryant, I think he would be a wonderful weapon to add to the offense but I also see him as a luxury pick that we just can't afford right now. We've got holes on the O-line and secondary that need to be filled first.

Someone mentioned Jahvid Best as a possible 1st round pick. I like his running style and either he or Spiller would be perfect for our one cut and go system. If we traded down in the 1st then I wouldn't mind him late in the 1st.

We already have a guy like that in Slaton. Why use a 1st rd pick on something we already have when we have holes elsewhere?

nero THE zero
01-21-2010, 09:46 AM
So what if Matt Schaub who is now playing in the Pro-Bowl (congratualtions) sustains a grade 3 shoulder seperation, you think the Texans draft board doesn't flip upside down?

It's worth noting that the shoulder injury Schaub suffered in 2008 (and re-injured in 2009) is a chronic conditions. I'm sure we can get CnD (wherever he's been lately) in here to elaborate, but according to the doctors I've heard speak on the radio, his separated shoulder will continue to be vulnerable to separation.

Granted, it is his non-throwing shoulder, and it can be protected by a brace, but this is an injury that is chronic and can affect him mentally as well as physically.

I think any idea that Schaub is the long term answer at QB is terribly shortsighted.

Blake
01-21-2010, 10:00 AM
We already have a guy like that in Slaton. Why use a 1st rd pick on something we already have when we have holes elsewhere?

I would have to agree. Since we have Slaton and Foster, we should be able to wait until the 3rd or 4th round to address that need.

Now if Best/Dwyer make it to us in round 2 then hey hey, they might be the pick.

Also until FA is over the waters are going to be murky as hell.

mussop
01-21-2010, 10:06 AM
I would have to agree. Since we have Slaton and Foster, we should be able to wait until the 3rd or 4th round to address that need.

Now if Best/Dwyer make it to us in round 2 then hey hey, they might be the pick.

Also until FA is over the waters are going to be murky as hell.

You guys speak as if its a sure thing that Slaton returns to his rookie form. Would YOU risk YOUR job on that assumption?

Blake
01-21-2010, 11:28 AM
You guys speak as if its a sure thing that Slaton returns to his rookie form. Would YOU risk YOUR job on that assumption?

By no means do I think Slaton is a lock to return to his 2008 form. I am simply in the camp that thinks we have more urgent needs to fill with our #1 draft pick than RB. I did not say that we would ignore it. In fact I said I would spend a 2nd round pick on a RB if the right one was there.

And I dont see how its any different risking your job by not taking a RB or a FS. Or a NT. Or OL help.

badboy
01-21-2010, 12:06 PM
By no means do I think Slaton is a lock to return to his 2008 form. I am simply in the camp that thinks we have more urgent needs to fill with our #1 draft pick than RB. I did not say that we would ignore it. In fact I said I would spend a 2nd round pick on a RB if the right one was there.

And I dont see how its any different risking your job by not taking a RB or a FS. Or a NT. Or OL help.Slaton may come back from injury and had a very poor season prior to injury. Brown should be gone. Foster while looking good played 3 games. Moats while seemingly steady is not my starter. What other position has no guaranteed starter and one promising back up? RB in first round screams to me And don't give me the we can draft one later. Maybe yes and maybe no. Your first round is pretty much the only guarantee that a RB you want for your system will be there. It is a priority nedd. Fill it.

Blake
01-21-2010, 12:21 PM
Slaton may come back from injury and had a very poor season prior to injury. Brown should be gone. Foster while looking good played 3 games. Moats while seemingly steady is not my starter. What other position has no guaranteed starter and one promising back up?

Are you kidding me? At free safety we have John Busing and Brian Russell. They were both awful. And Eugene Wilson was injured and is getting older.

RB in first round screams to me And don't give me the we can draft one later. Maybe yes and maybe no.

We can draft one later... maybe yes.

Your first round is pretty much the only guarantee that a RB you want for your system will be there. It is a priority nedd. Fill it.

That is not even true. There are ZBS running backs scattered throughout, and will be taken, early, middle, and late.

Sounds to me like you have Reggie Bush syndrome. Dont get caught up in the hype.

badboy
01-21-2010, 12:35 PM
[QUOTE=Super Mario;1352502]Are you kidding me? At free safety we have John Busing and Brian Russell. They were both awful. And Eugene Wilson was injured and is getting older. Are you kidding me? Schaub, AJ, Mario, Demeco and Cushing were injured this year also. In an offense that Kubes insists the run sets up the pass (only changed it very reluctantly his season) a FS does not have impact as a RB. I am ok with a FS that will be 30 next August and Gary likes him also. FYI, on my board I am drafting a FS for back up but not first round.


We can draft one later... maybe yes.



That is not even true. There are ZBS running backs scattered throughout, and will be taken, early, middle, and late. It is very true. There is no guarantee any of the backs you want will be available at our pick in later rounds.
Sounds to me like you have Reggie Bush syndrome. Dont get caught up in the hype.[/QUOTE

The Pencil Neck
01-21-2010, 01:05 PM
Slaton may come back from injury and had a very poor season prior to injury. Brown should be gone. Foster while looking good played 3 games. Moats while seemingly steady is not my starter. What other position has no guaranteed starter and one promising back up? RB in first round screams to me And don't give me the we can draft one later. Maybe yes and maybe no. Your first round is pretty much the only guarantee that a RB you want for your system will be there. It is a priority nedd. Fill it.

That's why, in the RB draft thread, I was saying draft a RB high (1-3) and draft a RB low (4-7) this year. We're supposed to be a running team, well, make that an area of absolute strength.

Along with that RB, grab two interior linemen (DL/OL) and a FS in the first 4 rounds.

mussop
01-21-2010, 01:31 PM
Are you kidding me? At free safety we have John Busing and Brian Russell. They were both awful. And Eugene Wilson was injured and is getting older.

Wrong!!!! Current Depth chart
CB: Dunta, Reeves, Quin, McCain, Molden, Parson, Bennett
S: Pollard, EWilson, DBarber, Busing, Nolan, NFerguson, B.Russell



We can draft one later... maybe yes.[/b]

You think Kubiak wants go into next season HOPING Slaton can return to his rookie form or pinning all his hopes on finding a gem in the later rounds?


That is not even true. There are ZBS running backs scattered throughout, and will be taken, early, middle, and late. [/b]

Off course there will but the percentage of the hitting on a starrting caliber RB gets lower and lower every round.

Sounds to me like you have Reggie Bush syndrome. Dont get caught up in the hype.

Sounds to me like you have Denver Broncos syndrome. Dont get caught up in the hype yourself.

Blake
01-21-2010, 02:32 PM
Are you kidding me? At free safety we have John Busing and Brian Russell. They were both awful. And Eugene Wilson was injured and is getting older.

Wrong!!!! Current Depth chart
CB: Dunta, Reeves, Quin, McCain, Molden, Parson, Bennett
S: Pollard, EWilson, DBarber, Busing, Nolan, NFerguson, B.Russell

You think Kubiak wants go into next season HOPING Slaton can return to his rookie form or pinning all his hopes on finding a gem in the later rounds?

Off course there will but the percentage of the hitting on a starrting caliber RB gets lower and lower every round.

Sounds to me like you have Denver Broncos syndrome. Dont get caught up in the hype yourself.

I said Free Safety Mussop. And why are you even listing cornerbacks? And thats not a depth chart smart guy. You listed the either roster of safeties. Cause Nolan and Wilson are in IR so they will not show on a depth chart.

You think Kubiak wants to go into nex season HOPING someone steps up at NT, FS, OG either? It goes both ways.

WolverineFan
01-21-2010, 03:16 PM
I said Free Safety Mussop. And why are you even listing cornerbacks? And thats not a depth chart smart guy. You listed the either roster of safeties. Cause Nolan and Wilson are in IR so they will not show on a depth chart.

You think Kubiak wants to go into nex season HOPING someone steps up at NT, FS, OG either? It goes both ways.

I agree. We have a RB that has showed he is capable of being The Guy (Slaton). Whether he returns to that form or not is yet to be seen, but he has done it before. We don't have anybody at Safety that has played at that kind of level other than Pollard. Problem is we need 2 Safeties on the field at once and only 1 RB. Therefore Safety is the bigger need.

Mario and Smith only combined for 12-13 sacks this year. Would you draft a DE before a Safety just because they didn't light it up.

TexCanada
01-21-2010, 03:25 PM
Slaton/Foster/Moats > Wilson/Busing/Russell

FS is a much greater need.

If the FSs we are targeting are gone I would rather see us draft Iupati. If its decided that Iupati is too much of a stretch at our pick then I'd like to see Price. RB's have the shortest careers!! Fix the other problems before using a top pick on a RB.

beerlover
01-21-2010, 03:34 PM
Slaton/Foster/Moats > Wilson/Busing/Russell

FS is a much greater need.

If the FSs we are targeting are gone I would rather see us draft Iupati. If its decided that Iupati is too much of a stretch at our pick then I'd like to see Price. RB's have the shortest careers!! Fix the other problems before using a top pick on a RB.

wrong, Slaton/Foster/Moats = Wilson/Barber/Busing

steelbtexan
01-21-2010, 03:46 PM
wrong, Slaton/Foster/Moats = Wilson/Barber/Busing

Yep

Both are well below avg as of the end of last season. IMO

mussop
01-22-2010, 02:53 AM
I said Free Safety Mussop. And why are you even listing cornerbacks? And thats not a depth chart smart guy. You listed the either roster of safeties. Cause Nolan and Wilson are in IR so they will not show on a depth chart.

You think Kubiak wants to go into nex season HOPING someone steps up at NT, FS, OG either? It goes both ways.

The season is over, they are under contract, they are on the roster smart guy. We also have Quin at CB who played FS in college and could return there if Robinson returns. In fact as far as safety goes We have a legitamate starter in Pollard and Barber played good enough for the defense to finish out pretty well. Dont think Kubes needs to hope alot here.

NT, again we finished pretty well on D and were really coming around against the run with the current linup of DT's. I dont think Kubes has to hope alot here.

Og, well I dont see Kubes hoping alot here either, not when we drafted Caldwell in the third round last year and he got alot of playing time and started coming along and good OG's are available at a higher rate than any other position.

None of those compare to RB a position that takes maximum punishment and has the shortest shelf life of any position where we have one quality player that might not ever return to his previous form and a bunch of trash after him. So you see it doesnt go both ways. :pop:

Corrosion
01-22-2010, 06:44 AM
The season is over, they are under contract, they are on the roster smart guy. We also have Quin at CB who played FS in college and could return there if Robinson returns. In fact as far as safety goes We have a legitamate starter in Pollard and Barber played good enough for the defense to finish out pretty well. Dont think Kubes needs to hope alot here.

NT, again we finished pretty well on D and were really coming around against the run with the current linup of DT's. I dont think Kubes has to hope alot here.

Og, well I dont see Kubes hoping alot here either, not when we drafted Caldwell in the third round last year and he got alot of playing time and started coming along and good OG's are available at a higher rate than any other position.

None of those compare to RB a position that takes maximum punishment and has the shortest shelf life of any position where we have one quality player that might not ever return to his previous form and a bunch of trash after him. So you see it doesnt go both ways. :pop:

Two thing I have to say about this post -

1) Quin was arguably our 2nd best Corner - Unless the position is significantly upgraded he likely stays there.

2) OG - With Brisiel and Pitts both injured and Pitts contract expired (and the weakness at the C spot) I think overlooking the OG spot is a HUGE mistake. There are only a few players I pass on Mike Iupati for in this draft. Dez Bryant , Joe Haden , C.J. Spiller and Earl Thomas are on that short list - very few if any are likely to be there when the Texans pick.

Blake
01-22-2010, 08:47 AM
The season is over, they are under contract, they are on the roster smart guy. We also have Quin at CB who played FS in college and could return there if Robinson returns. In fact as far as safety goes We have a legitamate starter in Pollard and Barber played good enough for the defense to finish out pretty well. Dont think Kubes needs to hope alot here.

Then why did you innitially say CURRENT DEPTH CHART? I normally tend to agree with you Mussop, but you thinking Quin is going to FS makes me realize that you are reaching to prove a nonexistent point. Quin is a damn good young cornerback and he is not going anywhere.

NT, again we finished pretty well on D and were really coming around against the run with the current linup of DT's. I dont think Kubes has to hope alot here.

Our D still gave up 4.3 yards YPR this season. Jeff Zgonina might retire, Frank Okam IMO isnt commited to being a football player, so that leaves you Shaun Cody and DelJuan Robinson. So this position might be able to wait until the 2nd or 3rd for some help.

Og, well I dont see Kubes hoping alot here either, not when we drafted Caldwell in the third round last year and he got alot of playing time and started coming along and good OG's are available at a higher rate than any other position.

Will Mike Brisiel and Chester Pitts come back strong? Are we going to be stuck with Studdard and Chris White? If so I think that position is in need of some serious help.

None of those compare to RB a position that takes maximum punishment and has the shortest shelf life of any position where we have one quality player that might not ever return to his previous form and a bunch of trash after him. So you see it doesnt go both ways. :pop:

I still think FS is the biggest need. Then RB/OG/NT/CB. I might agree more with you If there was a RB worth the #20 overall selection. Spiller, Best, and Dwyer seem more like late first, early 2nd round picks. Now if we are able to trade back a few spots and draft one of those guys in the 25-32 range, then you have my interest.

Corrosion
01-22-2010, 09:24 AM
.



Our D still gave up 4.3 yards YPR this season. Jeff Zgonina might retire, Frank Okam IMO isnt commited to being a football player, so that leaves you Shaun Cody and DelJuan Robinson. So this position might be able to wait until the 2nd or 3rd for some help.


Even if Zgonina doesnt retire - is it realistic for us to expect him to play as well next season as he did this past season ? He is older than dirt .... at some point there has to be a drop off in play.


Will Mike Brisiel and Chester Pitts come back strong? Are we going to be stuck with Studdard and Chris White? If so I think that position is in need of some serious help.

Studdard White and Myers isnt gonna get it done. I can see one of the three as a regular starter and thats going to be Myers - I havent heard any news about either injury and Pitts contract is expired - this is a huge questionmark position.


I still think FS is the biggest need. Then RB/OG/NT/CB. I might agree more with you If there was a RB worth the #20 overall selection. Spiller, Best, and Dwyer seem more like late first, early 2nd round picks. Now if we are able to trade back a few spots and draft one of those guys in the 25-32 range, then you have my interest.

I think OG is the #1 need at this point since I doubt any attention is given to the C spot. The OL has to be able to get a push in short yardage. With the combination of players we have for those interior spots we dont get that push.

I also place RB much lower in the order behind FS and NT and possibly CB depending upon Dunta.

I agree however that none of these backs seem to be early first round picks - they each have flaws. When I take an RB that early I want an instant impact player with very few flaws.

FA will affect these needs so a lot can change between now and draft day but this is how I see it for the time being. WR could actually move up the need list considerably depending upon Walter ....

Blake
01-22-2010, 09:52 AM
Well said Corrosion.

badboy
01-22-2010, 10:27 AM
That's why, in the RB draft thread, I was saying draft a RB high (1-3) and draft a RB low (4-7) this year. We're supposed to be a running team, well, make that an area of absolute strength.

Along with that RB, grab two interior linemen (DL/OL) and a FS in the first 4 rounds.Exactly my idea too. I think most of us agree on team needs just differ on when to fill the need.

Corrosion
01-22-2010, 10:32 AM
Exactly my idea too. I think most of us agree on team needs just differ on when to fill the need.

That all depends upon who's available when they pick and how they have these players graded .... and how the team views their needs.

I dont know if they feel the same as many of us do about their needs ...

badboy
01-22-2010, 10:40 AM
Slaton/Foster/Moats > Wilson/Busing/Russell

FS is a much greater need.

If the FSs we are targeting are gone I would rather see us draft Iupati. If its decided that Iupati is too much of a stretch at our pick then I'd like to see Price. RB's have the shortest careers!! Fix the other problems before using a top pick on a RB.I disagree in that it is not only a matter of numbers and who may or may not play but the importance of the postion in our schemes. While both FS and RB are important, Kubiac wants to run to set up the pass. He seems to prefer an apprx 60 -40 run/pass play scheme. Keep in mind Foster while looking good, did so in only 3 games. Historically, the safety positions have not seemed of particular focus of Smith/Kubiac. Your comment about RBs having shortest careers means little as focus is primarily only on the season that you are in or facing if the off season.

HouSportsWriter
01-22-2010, 11:04 AM
i dont think we get a safty with the 1st pick because w ehave pollard so i say we get 1 in free agency or later in the draft


i think we get dt cb or rb with 1st pick

The Pencil Neck
01-22-2010, 12:03 PM
That all depends upon who's available when they pick and how they have these players graded .... and how the team views their needs.

I dont know if they feel the same as many of us do about their needs ...

I think we can be pretty confident that they don't.

bah007
01-22-2010, 12:43 PM
I disagree in that it is not only a matter of numbers and who may or may not play but the importance of the postion in our schemes. While both FS and RB are important, Kubiac wants to run to set up the pass. He seems to prefer an apprx 60 -40 run/pass play scheme. Keep in mind Foster while looking good, did so in only 3 games. Historically, the safety positions have not seemed of particular focus of Smith/Kubiac. Your comment about RBs having shortest careers means little as focus is primarily only on the season that you are in or facing if the off season.

Same could be said about the RB position.

Corrosion
01-22-2010, 12:44 PM
I think we can be pretty confident that they don't.

Soon I'll have to banish myself to the NSZ :rake:

rickyb
01-22-2010, 04:54 PM
Consider the following. Texans are on the clock in round 1. The following players are on the board, in no order of importance:
Earl Thomas
Dez Bryant
Dan Williams

What do you do? I think this has a reasonable probability of coming to pass (so to speak).

Corrosion
01-22-2010, 05:03 PM
Consider the following. Texans are on the clock in round 1. The following players are on the board, in no order of importance:
Earl Thomas
Dez Bryant
Dan Williams

What do you do? I think this has a reasonable probability of coming to pass (so to speak).

Its hard for me to see one of those three on the board at 19 or 20 much less all three .... each would likely have to have a poor combine performance and or several other players blow the scouts away.

But if the three are there and Im at the helm , Im taking Earl Thomas - call me a UT homer if you like ...

bah007
01-22-2010, 05:37 PM
Consider the following. Texans are on the clock in round 1. The following players are on the board, in no order of importance:
Earl Thomas
Dez Bryant
Dan Williams

What do you do? I think this has a reasonable probability of coming to pass (so to speak).

Easy decision. I'm taking Thomas.

steelbtexan
01-22-2010, 06:15 PM
Kubes said this offseason that getting the running game going was job no.1.

Kubes said last offseason that getting more pressure on the QB was job no.1. Hence selecting Cush and Barwin in rds 1/2.

This year I believe that OG and RB will be addressed in rds 1-3.

I think Smithiak will take one of the highly rated OL in the draft Iupati is my favorite. If none of the highest rated OL are available Smithiak will probably reach and take Dwyer at 20 and fill the OG spot in rd 2-3. I also belive they will fill one of the OG spots in FA.

I think people are selling Dwyer short because of the offense he played in.

Remember Earl played in the wishbone for 3 yrs at UT. He did alrirght in the Nfl.

Dwyer reminds me of Stewart.

The combination of Dwyr and Slaton, with an upgraded OL and AJ/JJ on the outside would be deadly. This would be the fastest and most significant way to upgarde the team as a whole. IMHO

BAH got it right Thomas. Easy Decision

Corrosion
01-22-2010, 06:17 PM
BAH got it right Thomas. Easy Decision

Three for three so far .....

Goldensilence
01-22-2010, 07:49 PM
Consider the following. Texans are on the clock in round 1. The following players are on the board, in no order of importance:
Earl Thomas
Dez Bryant
Dan Williams

What do you do? I think this has a reasonable probability of coming to pass (so to speak).

If Earl is there he should be the pick without question. Second choice Bryant. Don't want a DT in the first.

mussop
01-22-2010, 08:00 PM
Consider the following. Texans are on the clock in round 1. The following players are on the board, in no order of importance:
Earl Thomas
Dez Bryant
Dan Williams

What do you do? I think this has a reasonable probability of coming to pass (so to speak).

Thats a tough one. First I would give Cinci, Baltimore and Green Bay a call and see if I could get them in a bidding war over Bryant. If that didnt work and I had to choose it would come down to Bryant and Thomas.

Thomas fills a need and is a very good player who would complement Pollard well. On the other hand he is small framed guy that plays physical and could have problems holding up in the very physical world of the NFL.

Bryant is a top ten talent and would be a huge bargain at #20. He would eliminate teams from being able to double AJ and a combination of Johnson, Od and Bryant would be down right scary. On the other hand WR isnt really a need persay. And I would have to consider what the reason a top ten talent fell all the way to #20 and consider the risk.

Either way were getting an instant starter and both would be an upgrade over what we currently have at there positions. Since I couldnt pull off a trade down and I have to choose I have to go with value here and take Bryant. Thats if he passes a thorough screening of course.

:chef:

mussop
01-22-2010, 08:57 PM
Then why did you innitially say CURRENT DEPTH CHART? I normally tend to agree with you Mussop, but you thinking Quin is going to FS makes me realize that you are reaching to prove a nonexistent point. Quin is a damn good young cornerback and he is not going anywhere.

I just cut and pasted "the current depth chart" to show that the safety position has more than the 3 players you made it out to have. I left the CB's in there to show the secondary as a whole. As for Quin, I love him at CB. I was just suggesting that if Robinson is resigned that gives us three quality CB's and if we were in a pinch he could play FS as he did in college. Better him at FS with Robinson and Reeves at CB than Busing at S with Robinson and Quin at CB if we were stricken by injury.

Besides just because I think RB is more a need doesnt suggest I think S isnt a position that needs to be addressed.

Our D still gave up 4.3 yards YPR this season. Jeff Zgonina might retire, Frank Okam IMO isnt commited to being a football player, so that leaves you Shaun Cody and DelJuan Robinson. So this position might be able to wait until the 2nd or 3rd for some help.

Im going to steal a qoute from dalemurphy. "We were 4th or 5th in the NFL against the run after week #3. Everyone is very young! The scheme was simplified because of all the inexperience on the team. More disguise and nuance will be implemented this off-season.".

But I do agree with your assesment that some talent does need to be added. I really believe they will go after at least one quality rotation DT in FA.



Will Mike Brisiel and Chester Pitts come back strong? Are we going to be stuck with Studdard and Chris White? If so I think that position is in need of some serious help.

Agree here also.I just think finding good guards is not as hard as finding players at our other need positions. I also believe if we do not resign Pitts we will sign someone in FA. That player along with what we have and possibly a later round pick will be enough to get our OL to generate a running game to go along with our already potent passing game.

I still think FS is the biggest need. Then RB/OG/NT/CB. I might agree more with you If there was a RB worth the #20 overall selection. Spiller, Best, and Dwyer seem more like late first, early 2nd round picks. Now if we are able to trade back a few spots and draft one of those guys in the 25-32 range, then you have my interest.

Do you think Barber played bad at the end of this year? He is still young and gained valuable experience with all the playing time he got. I know WE all want a super ballhawking type back there but Kubiak has said more than once they like their S to be interchangeable. So I dont think they see it as big a need as WE do.

Currently we do not have a single back that you can say is capable of starting 16 games next year and performing at a high level. If we dont sign a quality back via FA (and it doesnt look like there are going to be any) then we better get one in the draft. You know as well as I do that every round you wait the percentage or chance of getting a legitamate RB goes down.

We struck gold with Slaton in the 3rd round (well at least for one year) This draft isnt a strong draft for running backs. If we dont get one early our running game will continue to go backwards. To top that off Kubiak himself has said fixing the running game is priority one.

If this post is all over the place forgive me I am tired and a little scatter brained. I need to take me a little nappy.

rickyb
01-22-2010, 11:49 PM
Easy decision. I'm taking Thomas.

I'm just asking the questions. I had heard lots of mb chatter on DT, so I thought I would push a bit.

Course, another guy folks are falling in love with, perhaps justifiable so, is Iupati.

If Iupati, Dez, and Thomas were on the board, the decision is not so easy for me. mussop's analysis of Dez's impact on our offense resonates with me. Conversely, OG is a position of need. So is FS.

I just want people thinking about opportunity costs, and had hoped to stimulate discussion.

mussop
01-23-2010, 12:13 AM
I'm just asking the questions. I had heard lots of mb chatter on DT, so I thought I would push a bit.

Course, another guy folks are falling in love with, perhaps justifiable so, is Iupati.

If Iupati, Dez, and Thomas were on the board, the decision is not so easy for me. mussop's analysis of Dez's impact on our offense resonates with me. Conversely, OG is a position of need. So is FS.

I just want people thinking about opportunity costs, and had hoped to stimulate discussion.

My feelings for Iupati are well documented (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68340).

rickyb
01-23-2010, 12:47 PM
My feelings for Iupati are well documented (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68340).

Yup. And while I am not entirely sure that my thought process is yet complete or cemented, but I will think out loud.

Iupati at 20. CB draft is deep, so address later.

Or, Thomas at 20. Asamoah in the 2nd. Address CB later.

I am unqualified to differentiate between OG talent, Iupati and Asamoah. Now, Thomas I am familiar with, since I live in Austin, and have UT football crammed down my piehole -- fortunately, it has been good football last 2 years --- hey, Earl Thomas has been with UT last 2 years. Funny, I remember the sportstalk ilk all up in arms about the freshman safeties 2 years ago before the first game. They changed their tune quickly. Thomas is a special talent, and FS is a position of need.

Man, I am torn. "Finkle...Einhorn...Finkle...Einhorn" I will just have to do more research and agonize a bit more. It will be a long wait from SB Sunday until late April.

mussop
01-26-2010, 08:37 AM
Yup. And while I am not entirely sure that my thought process is yet complete or cemented, but I will think out loud.

Iupati at 20. CB draft is deep, so address later.

Or, Thomas at 20. Asamoah in the 2nd. Address CB later.

I am unqualified to differentiate between OG talent, Iupati and Asamoah. Now, Thomas I am familiar with, since I live in Austin, and have UT football crammed down my piehole -- fortunately, it has been good football last 2 years --- hey, Earl Thomas has been with UT last 2 years. Funny, I remember the sportstalk ilk all up in arms about the freshman safeties 2 years ago before the first game. They changed their tune quickly. Thomas is a special talent, and FS is a position of need.

Man, I am torn. "Finkle...Einhorn...Finkle...Einhorn" I will just have to do more research and agonize a bit more. It will be a long wait from SB Sunday until late April.

Me too!

BigBull17
01-26-2010, 10:05 AM
I like Dez Bryant, I think he would be a wonderful weapon to add to the offense but I also see him as a luxury pick that we just can't afford right now. We've got holes on the O-line and secondary that need to be filled first.

Someone mentioned Jahvid Best as a possible 1st round pick. I like his running style and either he or Spiller would be perfect for our one cut and go system. If we traded down in the 1st then I wouldn't mind him late in the 1st.

I think if we traded down and got more picks and Dez was still there, I would pull the trigger. He would help open up the field for both AJ and the running game. Hard to play the run with two explosive guys outside.

I think what he meant was that WR isn't really a position of need (assuming we have the same players on the roster). The thought that if you're addressing a position that doesn't need to be addressed, then it could be considered a luxury pick. That you're succeeding with with what you have now and that it could actually be considered a strength. With that said, I'm a believer that you upgrade a position/your team any way you can. Who knows if you're going to have the same opportunity over the next few years. If you're getting a superstar like Andre Johnson... that would be huge!

There's one draft theory about building a 'super unit'. It could be about building a team, in general. But instead of getting above average, quality guys all around. You stock up on extremely great talent at one position. You build a super unit that forces opposing teams to spend the vast majority of their time gameplanning against and still having trouble defeating it. With this theory, and going back to your original post.... it wouldn't be a luxury pick at all. It would be a necessity to get your team to the level you want!

I think one of the reasons we go into droughts is that outside of AJ and OD, we don't really have a dependable WR. DA is ok in the slot, but he is a little two small and slow to make that much of an impact. Walter is a great blocking WR, and is a decent reciever, but I do not think he is a "playmaker". WR could use an upgrade, me thinks.

Ole Miss Texan
01-26-2010, 10:37 AM
I think one of the reasons we go into droughts is that outside of AJ and OD, we don't really have a dependable WR. DA is ok in the slot, but he is a little two small and slow to make that much of an impact. Walter is a great blocking WR, and is a decent reciever, but I do not think he is a "playmaker". WR could use an upgrade, me thinks.
If we focus on the offensive side of the ball, just think about how great we could be if we pick up a starting calibre guard and a solid RB to add to the rotation in Free Agency. Then in the 1st/2nd round go WR Dez Bryant and RB Ryan Matthews.

I think our OL would be good plus Schaub would have weapons of Andre Johnson, Dez Bryant, Jacoby Jones, Owen Daniels. Throw in the RB's of Slaton, Foster, Ryan Matthews + FA.... Might be near unstoppable.

3rd and 4th round we might be able to get a FS and DT rotation. :cow:

BigBull17
01-26-2010, 10:45 AM
If we focus on the offensive side of the ball, just think about how great we could be if we pick up a starting calibre guard and a solid RB to add to the rotation in Free Agency. Then in the 1st/2nd round go WR Dez Bryant and RB Ryan Matthews.

I think our OL would be good plus Schaub would have weapons of Andre Johnson, Dez Bryant, Jacoby Jones, Owen Daniels. Throw in the RB's of Slaton, Foster, Ryan Matthews + FA.... Might be near unstoppable.

3rd and 4th round we might be able to get a FS and DT rotation. :cow:

I agree. Looking at out O, we havn't put anything into it really. No real high draft picks, or FA pick-ups. And we were still 1st in passing. Time to take a step on O and go for it. We have talent on D, we need a CB and maybe a FS, thought Wilson is servicable enough to survive.

infantrycak
01-26-2010, 12:21 PM
I agree. Looking at out O, we havn't put anything into it really. No real high draft picks, or FA pick-ups. And we were still 1st in passing. Time to take a step on O and go for it. We have talent on D, we need a CB and maybe a FS, thought Wilson is servicable enough to survive.

Really nothing on O?

2 1sts, 2 2nds (with a 3rd from the prior regime playing and a 4th picked up from TN), 5 3rds (6 if you consider picking up 3rd rounder Butler) plus signing Leach to the most expensive FB contract at the time. That's a lot of what used to be termed first day talent.

nero THE zero
01-26-2010, 12:55 PM
If we focus on the offensive side of the ball, just think about how great we could be if we pick up a starting calibre guard and a solid RB to add to the rotation in Free Agency. Then in the 1st/2nd round go WR Dez Bryant and RB Ryan Matthews.

I think our OL would be good plus Schaub would have weapons of Andre Johnson, Dez Bryant, Jacoby Jones, Owen Daniels. Throw in the RB's of Slaton, Foster, Ryan Matthews + FA.... Might be near unstoppable.

3rd and 4th round we might be able to get a FS and DT rotation. :cow:

Listening to LZ rave about Iupati this morning on my way into work, I started pondering how a few simple move could make this offense probably the best in the league.

If we took Iupati at 19/20, signed Mawae, and took Dwyer, Matthews, or Dixon in the 2nd, our offense would be unbelievable.

QB: Schuab
FB: Leach
RB: Slaton/2nd rounder
WR: AJ, Walter/FA
TE: Daniels
T: D. Brown, Winston
G: Iupati, Caldwell
C: Mawae

That's pretty much unstoppable.

steelbtexan
01-26-2010, 02:24 PM
Listening to LZ rave about Iupati this morning on my way into work, I started pondering how a few simple move could make this offense probably the best in the league.

If we took Iupati at 19/20, signed Mawae, and took Dwyer, Matthews, or Dixon in the 2nd, our offense would be unbelievable.

QB: Schuab
FB: Leach
RB: Slaton/2nd rounder
WR: AJ, Walter/FA
TE: Daniels
T: D. Brown, Winston
G: Iupati, Caldwell
C: Mawae

That's pretty much unstoppable.

That lineup there= TD's in the red zone not FG's and that = wins.

This is the kind of offense that is needed to beat the Colts. IMO

The good teams are usually dominant on one side of the ball. That offense would be dominant.

threetoedpete
01-28-2010, 12:21 PM
Two thing I have to say about this post -

1) Quin was arguably our 2nd best Corner - Unless the position is significantly upgraded he likely stays there.

2) OG - With Brisiel and Pitts both injured and Pitts contract expired (and the weakness at the C spot) I think overlooking the OG spot is a HUGE mistake. There are only a few players I pass on Mike Iupati for in this draft. Dez Bryant , Joe Haden , C.J. Spiller and Earl Thomas are on that short list - very few if any are likely to be there when the Texans pick.

This is what I've been thinking also. and I agree with all of your points.

Didn't it strike any one as pretty ironic that their rushing attack didn't get rolling until they hit two teams A. New England, who was resting players or B. Miami,who had players severely dinged up ? Once Crowder went out of the Miami game....our guards started to roll. In other words.....our rushing attack improved exponentially as the talent level on defense lowered to the lowest common denominator. All three of the quick guards are fine.....they all can pass protect and knock peoples pee pee in the dirt when the get off their combo blocks and reach the second level. The problem is covering for Myers. And I believe just judging what Kubes has done in the past, Myers isn't going anywhere. therefore....you raise the talent level at guard to raise the level of the entire o-line.

I'm with Old Miss on trading Picks....but if you want Iupati....and a rushing attack in '10 probably going to have to be bold and move up. Course I also said that Winston would never make it into the third round so you never know. You can always go with the hope, pick the OLT from TCU, Marshal Newhouse in the third or forth kick him inside, (or one of Beerlover's prospects in the second), and hope it works out.

And we still haven't seen Iupati in the combine drills. I guessing he's going to blow the socks off everyone at Indy. Probably do a deal with Cleveland or Seattle pretty dog gone cheap. Both clubs are like the Texans were four years ago.....desperate for talent. And should be well motivated to make a move down....cheap. They both need mass quantities of warm bodies to get out of the NFL bottomless pit. And we don't. Exactly how many roster spots will be open by April 24th for the Texans ? If Iupati keeps Mr. Manning on the pine....and we can dominate the other two division foes...make a 4-2 division record ....anything is possible. What we know for a fact after sixteen tries.....getting to Manning is pretty dog gone tough. I think the most important part of that equation, beating the Colts and dominating the division, is providing actual holes the RBs can one cut into. And that means, to me, getting some girth next to Myers. As close as we are why wouldn't you aggressively go after the best girth you can get your hands on ?

WolverineFan
01-28-2010, 01:26 PM
Right now Iupati is blowing it up at the Senior Bowl. If he's there at #20 we should grab him. Right now my wishlist is . . .

1. Joe Haden - CB, Florida (won't be available)
2. Mike Iupati - G, Idaho (might be available)
3. Donovan Warren - CB, Michigan (might be available)
4. Brian Price - DT, UCLA (might be available)
5. Dan Williams - DT, Tennessee (might be available)

Or we could trade down into the 28-32 range and take Kyle Wilson, Perrish Cox, or Brandon Ghee (all CB's).

mussop
01-30-2010, 02:11 PM
At this point Kyke Wilson and Odrick should be on this list. Both were exceptional this week and worked their way into the first round.

Throw Branden Grahams name in as well. This guy looks like Freeney at times.

bah007
01-31-2010, 11:29 AM
At this point Kyke Wilson and Odrick should be on this list. Both were exceptional this week and worked their way into the first round.

Throw Branden Grahams name in as well. This guy looks like Freeney at times.

Didn't WolverineFan get blasted on here weeks ago for suggesting Graham?...

mussop
01-31-2010, 01:43 PM
Didn't WolverineFan get blasted on here weeks ago for suggesting Graham?...

It wasnt by me if he did. Graham has a special quick change of direction skill that is rare for a guy his size. If we develop any kind of running game at all our offense is going to be really good. Having a guy like Graham/Freeney who can really get after the QB will be worth his weight in gold.