PDA

View Full Version : A reminder of why Kris Brown deserves our gratitude


Brisco_County
01-13-2010, 05:00 AM
It can be validly argued that we are not in the playoffs because of Kris Brown.

The dumbfounding reality that good kickers can instantly go bad emerges every year in the NFL. This year, the shanking-plague spread more rapidly through the league than staphylococcus in a Cleveland locker room, but no kicker contracted a more acute infection than Brown.

But because Brown's sudden unreliability was so severe, it caused a lot of fans to react as if the guy was the Ryan Leaf of field goal kickers. People who should've known better were posting things like, "A loser is a loser, run him out of town!" Short memories seem to also be contagious.

It is true that Brown should probably hang up the cleats this year, but here's an article that will help remind you of what the guy has done for this team, and how important he is in Texans history:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/5959242.html

After Kris is gone, this is the kind of player I'm going to remember:

"In a 22-19 victory against the Dolphins last Oct. 7, Brown showed the Texans just how much football player lurks inside that No. 3 jersey. Brown became the third kicker in NFL history to make three field goals of 50 yards or longer in the same game, and that wasn’t the half of it. He injured the heel of his left foot during the Texans’ first kickoff and needed a pain-killing injection at halftime... After all that, Brown made a 57-yarder as time expired."

ObsiWan
01-13-2010, 06:15 AM
Kris just needs to earn his job back next year.
Come into camp, against legit competition, and show the team and fans that he can regain the form and consistency he had when he was kicking 50+ yarders with regularity. If he gets his swagger back he stays. If he doesn't, "so long and thanks for all the kicks".
...well, at least all the game winners. :)

Corrosion
01-13-2010, 07:23 AM
Its a what have you done for me lately league - Brown was pathetic this season. If Brown isnt held accountable how can Kubiak retain the respect of the team ... They absolutely must bring in some serious competition for the kicker spot - If Brown wins the job thats fine but they cant go into camp without a real fight for the roster spot.

TimeKiller
01-13-2010, 08:48 AM
I don't get why some people have such a hangup about calling a duck a duck. KB kicks like a duck, shits like a duck and when he tries to blame himself like Kubiak does all I hear is "Quack Quack QUUuuaaaack!!!"

Did Kris Brown put on an atrocious display of kicking this past season?
Quack
Did he miss every single field goal in every single pressure situation?
Quack
Did these misses likely keep the Texans from a better record than 9-7?
Quack
Would 1 or 3 more win(s) have us in the playoffs?
Quack
So it's safe to assume KB played a large role in blocking the team from a post season berth?
Quack but here's the deal. On one hand you see the team and it's failures and say, "Oh it's not just KB's fault, the team shouldn't put him in that position." On the other hand you have to look at game deciding kicks in a vaccuum. Nothing else matters when they start lining up for the kick, all that matters is that the guy who is paid solely and exclusively on his ability to make kicks does his job. Kickers are over praised/over criticized just like QBs are because their job is more decisive than the rest of the team but he missed all the big kicks. All of them. There isn't middle ground here and if there was KB couldn't kick a ball through it.

Oh and he missed an extra point. QUACK. That's a guy who is really, really, I mean truly struggling with his confidence. People on quack don't have the jitters that bad. But that's the guy you just want to thank because of all the kicks he made when they were not making any playoff noise?

Thorn
01-13-2010, 09:05 AM
I don't know, maybe it's just me, but if I had the chance to get rid of someone that's about to cost me my job, that sucker is going bye-bye. And I don't care what the history is.

Imatexanfan
01-13-2010, 09:08 AM
The thing is we lost not only one but two games that could have been wins for us because of him. Now I now what he means to the organization and all but when the shit hits the fan bud you gotta go...

HuttoKarl
01-13-2010, 09:09 AM
It can be validly argued that we are not in the playoffs because of Kris Brown.

The dumbfounding reality that good kickers can instantly go bad emerges every year in the NFL. This year, the shanking-plague spread more rapidly through the league than staphylococcus in a Cleveland locker room, but no kicker contracted a more acute infection than Brown.

But because Brown's sudden unreliability was so severe, it caused a lot of fans to react as if the guy was the Ryan Leaf of field goal kickers. People who should've known better were posting things like, "A loser is a loser, run him out of town!" Short memories seem to also be contagious.

It is true that Brown should probably hang up the cleats this year, but here's an article that will help remind you of what the guy has done for this team, and how important he is in Texans history:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/5959242.html

After Kris is gone, this is the kind of player I'm going to remember:

"In a 22-19 victory against the Dolphins last Oct. 7, Brown showed the Texans just how much football player lurks inside that No. 3 jersey. Brown became the third kicker in NFL history to make three field goals of 50 yards or longer in the same game, and that wasn’t the half of it. He injured the heel of his left foot during the Texans’ first kickoff and needed a pain-killing injection at halftime... After all that, Brown made a 57-yarder as time expired."

One great game doesn't excuse a completely crappy season. The truth about Kris Brown is that he's mixed about three nice seasons into a totally mediocre career. Unfortunately, we thought it was wise to lock him up for multiple years right before he got the yips. We're probably stuck with him now.

BigTimeTexanFan
01-13-2010, 09:11 AM
In the past he's been good. After last year, even if he wins his job back, I will be nervous everytime he lines up to kick. I might have to follow Kubiak and turn my back and not watch.

HoustonFrog
01-13-2010, 09:16 AM
I don't know, maybe it's just me, but if I had the chance to get rid of someone that's about to cost me my job, that sucker is going bye-bye. And I don't care what the history is.

I agree and I'm not sure why people are attached to Kris Brown. He wasn't that good when he got here. He hasn't been that great overall. He had maybe 2-3 good years and they were still alright.

Kickers are a dime a dozen if you can get one with some confidence. There are truly only a few studs. Look at the Cowboys. They cut a Pro-Bowler and picked up another cut guy who has been perfect, I believe, so far, in a playoff run. Folk was costing them games or chances to win games. I never realized how interchangeable they were until the Cowboys in the 90s. They had a stud kicking coach, Steve Hoffman..now with the Chiefs. It seemed like they brought in a cheap FA every couple of years, coached him up, and he would be a stud. When they got the yips...bye, bye.

Here is what Hoffman did:

http://www.kcchiefs.com/coach/steve_hoffman/

During his tenure in Dallas, Hoffman successfully tutored a number of rookie or first-year specialists, including P John Jett (’93), K Chris Boniol (’94), K Richie Cunningham (’97) and P Toby Gowin (’97). In total, Hoffman’s specialists established 15 separate club records during his tenure in Dallas.

Again, this is just one example of one guy and one team. Sorry for some of you that I used the Cowboys. Just comes to mind. Teams routinely bring in new guys to compete and to make themselves better. This Kris Brown love just reeks of a misplaced loyalty they have. It really makes no sense. It isn't like he is Adam Vinatieri. And even he went to another team.

Texan4Ever
01-13-2010, 09:27 AM
The reason Kris Brown was lambasted is because THIS was OUR year to make it to the playoffs and there were so many games that came down to his ability to make kicks that he didn't make, he didn't step up his A-game like Matt Schaub, Andre Johnson, etc did.

Yes, Kris Brown has helped us win our first game against the Colts but when we needed him to step up...he didn't!

eriadoc
01-13-2010, 10:00 AM
But because Brown's sudden unreliability was so severe ....

In the past he's been good.

Decent NFL kickers consistently kick in the low-to-mid 80s percentile. Good NFL kickers consistently kick in the mid-to-high 80s percentile. Kickers will have a season here or there that is an outlier, either in the 90s or in the 70s, maybe even low 70s. Here's a reminder of Kris Brown in seasons past:

2002: 70.8%
2003: 81.8%
2004: 70.8%
2005: 76.5%
2006: 76.0%
2007: 86.2%
2008: 87.9%
2009: 65.6%

This year was not an aberration; the last two years were. Kris Brown has a career average of 77.3%, which is bottom 25% of NFL kickers, and six of the past nine seasons, he hasn't even achieved that lowly percentage.

HuttoKarl
01-13-2010, 10:05 AM
Decent NFL kickers consistently kick in the low-to-mid 80s percentile. Good NFL kickers consistently kick in the mid-to-high 80s percentile. Kickers will have a season here or there that is an outlier, either in the 90s or in the 70s, maybe even low 70s. Here's a reminder of Kris Brown in seasons past:

2002: 70.8%
2003: 81.8%
2004: 70.8%
2005: 76.5%
2006: 76.0%
2007: 86.2%
2008: 87.9%
2009: 65.6%

This year was not an aberration; the last two years were. Kris Brown has a career average of 77.3%, which is bottom 25% of NFL kickers, and six of the past nine seasons, he hasn't even achieved that lowly percentage.

Exactly...we shoulda drafted Mason Crosby when we had the chance.

GuerillaBlack
01-13-2010, 10:05 AM
It can be validly argued that we are not in the playoffs because of Kris Brown.

The dumbfounding reality that good kickers can instantly go bad emerges every year in the NFL. This year, the shanking-plague spread more rapidly through the league than staphylococcus in a Cleveland locker room, but no kicker contracted a more acute infection than Brown.

But because Brown's sudden unreliability was so severe, it caused a lot of fans to react as if the guy was the Ryan Leaf of field goal kickers. People who should've known better were posting things like, "A loser is a loser, run him out of town!" Short memories seem to also be contagious.

It is true that Brown should probably hang up the cleats this year, but here's an article that will help remind you of what the guy has done for this team, and how important he is in Texans history:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/5959242.html

After Kris is gone, this is the kind of player I'm going to remember:

"In a 22-19 victory against the Dolphins last Oct. 7, Brown showed the Texans just how much football player lurks inside that No. 3 jersey. Brown became the third kicker in NFL history to make three field goals of 50 yards or longer in the same game, and that wasn’t the half of it. He injured the heel of his left foot during the Texans’ first kickoff and needed a pain-killing injection at halftime... After all that, Brown made a 57-yarder as time expired."

No sir.

Brown did this with the Steelers. Was fine when the team was not contending for anything, but when the pressure is on, he sucks. That's why Bill Cowher kicked him out. I really can't believe Brown is still on the roster. Most teams kick their kickers out after what he did. Look at Sean Payton and (gasp) Wade Philips. Good coaches. Kubiak was too loyal to go find a new kicker this season...and it cost us.

disaacks3
01-13-2010, 10:40 AM
Its a what have you done for me lately league - Brown was pathetic this season. If Brown isnt held accountable how can Kubiak retain the respect of the team ... They absolutely must bring in some serious competition for the kicker spot - If Brown wins the job thats fine but they cant go into camp without a real fight for the roster spot. Yep, if he wins the spot again, fine. There HAS to be competition for the position after this past year though.

Double Barrel
01-13-2010, 10:51 AM
Its a what have you done for me lately league - Brown was pathetic this season. If Brown isnt held accountable how can Kubiak retain the respect of the team ... They absolutely must bring in some serious competition for the kicker spot - If Brown wins the job thats fine but they cant go into camp without a real fight for the roster spot.

This.

If they go with the status quo and do not seriously challenge this guy, it is a microcosm of the Kubiak regime as a whole body of work, IMO. You do not reward longevity in this league, you reward positive results.

Yes, Kris Brown has helped us win our first game against the Colts but when we needed him to step up...he didn't!

yep. Just like Ron Dayne, and I don't see anyone making a thread why he deserves our gratitude. The one and only time we beat the Colts was on the backs of Dayne and Brown, and even HWSNBN made a couple of plays when it mattered.

But that is ancient history as far as the 2010 season is concerned.

hadaad
01-13-2010, 11:21 AM
As long as he stops costing us more games than he wins us, I'll remember him fondly.

If he's still a Texan next year, he'd better be better. That's all.

Joe Texan
01-13-2010, 11:30 AM
Dude you remind me of a Saint fan but you do not hear me ranting and raving about that now do you.


I don't get why some people have such a hangup about calling a duck a duck. KB kicks like a duck, shits like a duck and when he tries to blame himself like Kubiak does all I hear is "Quack Quack QUUuuaaaack!!!"

Did Kris Brown put on an atrocious display of kicking this past season?
Quack
Did he miss every single field goal in every single pressure situation?
Quack
Did these misses likely keep the Texans from a better record than 9-7?
Quack
Would 1 or 3 more win(s) have us in the playoffs?
Quack
So it's safe to assume KB played a large role in blocking the team from a post season berth?
Quack but here's the deal. On one hand you see the team and it's failures and say, "Oh it's not just KB's fault, the team shouldn't put him in that position." On the other hand you have to look at game deciding kicks in a vaccuum. Nothing else matters when they start lining up for the kick, all that matters is that the guy who is paid solely and exclusively on his ability to make kicks does his job. Kickers are over praised/over criticized just like QBs are because their job is more decisive than the rest of the team but he missed all the big kicks. All of them. There isn't middle ground here and if there was KB couldn't kick a ball through it.

Oh and he missed an extra point. QUACK. That's a guy who is really, really, I mean truly struggling with his confidence. People on quack don't have the jitters that bad. But that's the guy you just want to thank because of all the kicks he made when they were not making any playoff noise?

TD
01-13-2010, 11:32 AM
This year was not an aberration; the last two years were. Kris Brown has a career average of 77.3%, which is bottom 25% of NFL kickers, and six of the past nine seasons, he hasn't even achieved that lowly percentage.

Not saying we shouldn't look at kickers, but how is two years at 10% above your average an aberration while one year at 12% below it is not?? :thinking:

El Tejano
01-13-2010, 11:34 AM
Does anyone know if Kris Brown has stock in Reliant or The Texans?

eriadoc
01-13-2010, 11:52 AM
Not saying we shouldn't look at kickers, but how is two years at 10% above your average an aberration while one year at 12% below it is not?? :thinking:

Well, 65% might be an aberration even by Kris Brown standards, but the point stands - three years out of nine with a decent average does not justify the general perception that Kris Brown was a good kicker. For his career, he's been a bad kicker, and he has a quite lengthy track record to which one can refer. This year was bad, which Kris Brown has been more often than not, which is why I did not refer to this year as an aberration. You can qualify that if you want, I suppose, but it doesn't change the central premise.

HoustonFrog
01-13-2010, 11:55 AM
Not saying we shouldn't look at kickers, but how is two years at 10% above your average an aberration while one year at 12% below it is not?? :thinking:

Because the one year coincides with a majority of his career.

houstonspartan
01-13-2010, 12:19 PM
This is bs. I like Kris Brown, but 11 missed field goals is SHAMEFUL.

No one is saying he isn't a great guy. The "original Texan" thing is a cool piece of trivia, but, so what?

I don't think he should have competition brought in. I think he should be flat out released.

It's clear Kris can't handle pressure situations. Does he have any idea how much pressure this team will be under next year? Every single game, every single play, every single possession, every single drive, every single kick will be important next year. Every SECOND of every game next year will be important.

Can Kris handle that?

No More 8-8's
01-13-2010, 12:23 PM
Missing field goals is one thing....it happens. Nobody is perfect. The misses he had were in clutch moments of the game and he failed everytime. Thats why kickers get big contracts, because they have ice in their veins and dont let it get to him. His time with us is over. Period.

Get rid of Pitts and Brown. 2010 is the start of a new decade and we dont need to hold on to such crappy history.

JT
01-13-2010, 12:27 PM
Dude you remind me of a Saint fan but you do not hear me ranting and raving about that now do you.


What?..... Ok now ready for the other old lady to blame the Hurricane for Kris Brown's misses.....geez is the kool-aid that good?!

Mr. White
01-13-2010, 12:30 PM
He'd get my gratitude if he made his kicks when a game is on the line.

Some of you care about how nice a guy is. I care about production.

TD
01-13-2010, 12:55 PM
Because the one year coincides with a majority of his career.

No it doesn't....in the last 11 years he has 5 years above 80%; 4 year between 70 - 79% and 2 years below 70%.

Hate to let facts get in the way of a good crucifixion, but last year was the aberration.

TimeKiller
01-13-2010, 12:58 PM
Dude you remind me of a Saint fan but you do not hear me ranting and raving about that now do you.

Holy roflcopters batman, I remind you of a Saint(s) fan do I? Why, because when I went to visit my sister in NOLA to watch a Saint(s) game the Texan(s) had just lost 4 straight chances at being a real playoff contender with no small thanks to Kris Brown's borderline amatuer season and I put up an avatar to express my displeasure?

I actually thought it was a funny rant but...I think I'm hilarious so whatever. All of it's still true. Kris Brown played an enormous part in the Texan(s) remaining playoff-free and got the gratitude he deserved for kicks he made 2 years ago 2 YEARS AGO! He doesn't deserve much now and certainly not gratitude. This thread is ****ing stupid.

houstonspartan
01-13-2010, 01:07 PM
Holy roflcopters batman, I remind you of a Saint(s) fan do I? Why, because when I went to visit my sister in NOLA to watch a Saint(s) game the Texan(s) had just lost 4 straight chances at being a real playoff contender with no small thanks to Kris Brown's borderline amatuer season and I put up an avatar to express my displeasure?

I actually thought it was a funny rant but...I think I'm hilarious so whatever. All of it's still true. Kris Brown played an enormous part in the Texan(s) remaining playoff-free and got the gratitude he deserved for kicks he made 2 years ago 2 YEARS AGO! He doesn't deserve much now and certainly not gratitude. This thread is ****ing stupid.

I actually thought your rant was hilarious. I agreed with it 100 percent.

HoustonFrog
01-13-2010, 01:08 PM
No it doesn't....in the last 11 years he has 5 years above 80%; 4 year between 70 - 79% and 2 years below 70%.

Hate to let facts get in the way of a good crucifixion, but last year was the aberration.



Yeah, so 6 out of the 11 years are just average or below and in his time here...only 3 of his 8 are what you would call good. How is that alright? Look at my stuff on Page 1. It is abnormal for a team to keep trotting out a guy who really isn't that great. There are 20 other guys out there who can do his job at his rate. This is the NFL. Teams don't keep guys who are just average or below out of some random idea of being loyal. He is a kicker. Good teams cut kickers this year and moved on seemlessly. How does 5 of 11 years turn into a good stat for a kicker?

Folk, who got cut, is only in his 3rd year and was hitting 86.8 his first 2 years. He is gone because he started costing chances to win. But Kris is a swell guy, by golly. Heck, Carney is in his 21st year and his career average is 82.4%...over 21 years.

Texecutioner
01-13-2010, 01:12 PM
Again, this is just one example of one guy and one team. Sorry for some of you that I used the Cowboys. Just comes to mind. Teams routinely bring in new guys to compete and to make themselves better. This Kris Brown love just reeks of a misplaced loyalty they have. It really makes no sense. It isn't like he is Adam Vinatieri. And even he went to another team.

Not me. I think it's the perfect reference here. Kubes and Mcnair could learn a lot from Wade and Jerry. They didn't sit there with blind loyalty and get complacent. They showed that you've got to produce or sit down somewhere. This is a results oriented league. Brown has been great in the past, but he was atrocious this season, and the Texans could have at least brought another kicker on to sit behind Brown and kicked the rest of the game if Brown missed another one which he ended up missing several. The Texans could learn a lot from Jerry Jones at this point as sad as I am to have to say that and I never thought I would be saying those words, but it's the truth. Jerry's always changing things to try and make his team better. His moves aren't always the right ones, but he never gets complacent with anyone no matter who it is. We're way to complacent here and that needs to change at some point. Mcnair needs to start demanding accountability instead of kindly asking for it.

disaacks3
01-13-2010, 01:16 PM
No it doesn't....in the last 11 years he has 5 years above 80%; 4 year between 70 - 79% and 2 years below 70%.

Hate to let facts get in the way of a good crucifixion, but last year was the aberration. Avg during Texans tenure? (nobody should have to kick at Heinz field) 76.95%

He's had 3 years above that and 5 years below. Kickers don't tend to get appreciably better this late in a career, but many DO get appreciably worse.

Barely over 70% is NOT good for an NFL kicker. 65% is get-cut MID-Season bad. I appreciate everything that K. Brown has done for the Texans over the years, but you'd have to be the dumbest NFL management team in history to NOT bring in competition come camp time.

PapaL
01-13-2010, 01:20 PM
My thought...set him free. Bring in a bunch of guys. If those guys suck too it's not like people are going to be beating down his door offering him a new job. I'm sure he'd be avaliable. Even if he's not, keep the revolving door open and keep bringing in guys until he find a half decent one to replace the half decent one that has worn out his use.

houstonspartan
01-13-2010, 01:22 PM
Not me. I think it's the perfect reference here. Kubes and Mcnair could learn a lot from Wade and Jerry. They didn't sit there with blind loyalty and get complacent. They showed that you've got to produce or sit down somewhere. This is a results oriented league. Brown has been great in the past, but he was atrocious this season, and the Texans could have at least brought another kicker on to sit behind Brown and kicked the rest of the game if Brown missed another one which he ended up missing several. The Texans could learn a lot from Jerry Jones at this point as sad as I am to have to say that and I never thought I would be saying those words, but it's the truth. Jerry's always changing things to try and make his team better. His moves aren't always the right ones, but he never gets complacent with anyone no matter who it is. We're way to complacent here and that needs to change at some point. Mcnair needs to start demanding accountability instead of kindly asking for it.


Yep. I think the Cowboys are the perfect reference here. I am not a Jerry Jones fan becuase I think he's a buffoon. But, I give him credit for identifying a problem and dealing with it immediately.

With a few games left in the season, he saw that his pro bowl kicker was struggling. I'm sure he liked Nick Folk, but he also knew that they were trying to make a playoff push. So he replaced him. That's smart.

HoustonFrog
01-13-2010, 01:26 PM
Yep. I think the Cowboys are the perfect reference here. I am not a Jerry Jones fan becuase I think he's a buffoon. But, I give him credit for identifying a problem and dealing with it immediately.

With a few games left in the season, he saw that his pro bowl kicker was struggling. I'm sure he liked Nick Folk, but he also knew that they were trying to make a playoff push. So he replaced him. That's smart.

And again, if you want to reference them and look back even farther, look at what the kicking coach did in the 90s(on page 1) there. Again, in this day and age where guys have big legs and there are many guys with the same ability, why keep one that hits a wall and loses games.

TD
01-13-2010, 01:28 PM
Yeah, so 6 out of the 11 years are just average or below and in his time here...only 3 of his 8 are what you would call good. How is that alright? Look at my stuff on Page 1. It is abnormal for a team to keep trotting out a guy who really isn't that great. There are 20 other guys out there who can do his job at his rate. This is the NFL. Teams don't keep guys who are just average or below out of some random idea of being loyal. He is a kicker. Good teams cut kickers this year and moved on seemlessly. How does 5 of 11 years turn into a good stat for a kicker?

Never said it was good enough. I am saying that to act like last year was closer to his norm than the two years prior is factually incorrect. Last year was further from his average and his mean than 2007-2008.

The difference between an 80% kicker and a 75% kicker is < 2 makes a year. Situation and distance could easily account for that with virtually identical kickers.

Brown had a HORRIBLE year...particularly late, but the SMART thing to do is decide his fate next TC....not today.

HoustonFrog
01-13-2010, 01:41 PM
Never said it was good enough. I am saying that to act like last year was closer to his norm than the two years prior is factually incorrect. Last year was further from his average and his mean than 2007-2008.

The difference between an 80% kicker and a 75% kicker is < 2 makes a year. Situation and distance could easily account for that with virtually identical kickers.

Brown had a HORRIBLE year...particularly late, but the SMART thing to do is decide his fate next TC....not today.

Gotcha. I think my problem with this is twofold though 1) With pressure off in TC he might look great but feel the pressure once the games start again and with last year in his mind...who knows what happens 2) his career overall isn't so impressive that I worry about having to ask him back. Honestly, you might as well invite Folk, a younger and better kicker (when on) and hope he corrects himself compared to Brown. It isn't like he is Stover or Vinitieri years ago and you are worried about a top guy. Heck, invite 3 other guys like him if you chose. I think kickers might thrive on fresh starts

GuerillaBlack
01-13-2010, 01:42 PM
No it doesn't....in the last 11 years he has 5 years above 80%; 4 year between 70 - 79% and 2 years below 70%.

Hate to let facts get in the way of a good crucifixion, but last year was the aberration.

And guess what? This season was the closest year the Texans have been to the playoffs. When the Texans suck, he's good (as you can see by the numbers). When the pressure is on, he sucks (look at him with the Steelers and now, this year).

DexmanC
01-13-2010, 01:46 PM
Never said it was good enough. I am saying that to act like last year was closer to his norm than the two years prior is factually incorrect. Last year was further from his average and his mean than 2007-2008.

The difference between an 80% kicker and a 75% kicker is < 2 makes a year. Situation and distance could easily account for that with virtually identical kickers.

Brown had a HORRIBLE year...particularly late, but the SMART thing to do is decide his fate next TC....not today.

The reason the margin of error on kickers is so small, because 2 makes a year
can also equate to 2 wins a year. The NFL is a PRESSURE COOKER. ANY
mistake you make could potentially END YOUR SEASON. This is not the
time to play around with "he just missed two kicks" sentiment. Those
two kickers could mean the playoffs. Do you think Neal Rakers will be back
with the Cardinals next year?

GuerillaBlack
01-13-2010, 01:54 PM
The reason the margin of error on kickers is so small, because 2 makes a year
can also equate to 2 wins a year. The NFL is a PRESSURE COOKER. ANY
mistake you make could potentially END YOUR SEASON. This is not the
time to play around with "he just missed two kicks" sentiment. Those
two kickers could mean the playoffs. Do you think Neal Rakers will be back
with the Cardinals next year?

Uh....yeah.

Agree with the rest of your post though. Kris Brown should have been cut after the MNF game, but we're too loyal for that.

TD
01-13-2010, 02:03 PM
Do you think Neal Rakers will be back
with the Cardinals next year?

Over 90% accuracy the last two regular seasons, plus 6-7 inside the 50 during the playoffs? You tell me.

Grams
01-13-2010, 02:06 PM
What?..... Ok now ready for the other old lady to blame the Hurricane for Kris Brown's misses.....geez is the kool-aid that good?!


The other old lady?

And you are who??

Oh that's right - you are the guy that likes to neg rep people because you think they are off topic.

GuerillaBlack
01-13-2010, 02:10 PM
Over 90% accuracy the last two regular seasons, plus 6-7 inside the 50 during the playoffs? You tell me.

If only Kris Brown was that good for a team trying to win huh? Hell, Kris Brown misses extra points now. I think he was trying to make us lose the game.

TD
01-13-2010, 02:17 PM
And guess what? This season was the closest year the Texans have been to the playoffs. When the Texans suck, he's good (as you can see by the numbers). When the pressure is on, he sucks (look at him with the Steelers and now, this year).

One year doesn't make a trend.

Better stat for pressure kicks is the game is tied (in other words...he can give the team the lead):

2007 - 2009 when the game is tied he is 19 of 22 (86%). Pretty damn good.

This year was bad enough without making up stuff to justify your opinions of him.

GuerillaBlack
01-13-2010, 02:19 PM
One year doesn't make a trend.

Better stat for pressure kicks is the game is tied (in other words...he can give the team the lead):

2007 - 2009 when the game is tied he is 19 of 22 (86%). Pretty damn good.

C'mon....this year was bad enough without making up stuff to justify your opinions of him.

This isn't the first time it happened though. See, Kris Brown was good for the Texans when the pressure was off, but when it's on, he sucks. Now, pressure is not trying to win against the Colts when you're already 4-10. Pressure is when you are trying to get a playoff spot, like we were.

The same thing happened with him in Pittsburgh. When the pressure was on, he sucks. Kris Brown should have been cut after the MNF game. He better not be the only kicker brought in at training camp. If he is, we will really know how weak of a coach loyal Kubiak is.

McNair needs to really get some Jerry Jones in him and stop being so damn attached to players.

TD
01-13-2010, 02:22 PM
If only Kris Brown was that good for a team trying to win huh? Hell, Kris Brown misses extra points now. I think he was trying to make us lose the game.

He lost it for whatever reason. I don't know if he can fix it, but you may want to Google Brad Lidge before you give up on him based on a late season swoon.

TD
01-13-2010, 02:23 PM
He better not be the only kicker brought in at training camp. If he is, we will really know how weak of a coach loyal Kubiak is.

If Kris is the only kicker brought in....Kubiak probably won't be the only coach. ;)

GuerillaBlack
01-13-2010, 02:23 PM
He lost it for whatever reason. I don't know if he can fix it, but you may want to Google Brad Lidge before you give up on him based on a late season swoon.

Late season swoon? This all started with the first Colt game in Indy. The MIDDLE of the season. I don't care about Brad Lidge. He needed a change of scenery. So does Brown.

PapaL
01-13-2010, 02:23 PM
How many times does a kicker trot out onto the field? 3, maybe 4? All of which are for points.

I would consider all those pressure situations.

It's not like he's making people miss mid trot and kicking an XP/FG.

TD
01-13-2010, 02:27 PM
Late season swoon? This all started with the first Colt game in Indy. The MIDDLE of the season. I don't care about Brad Lidge. He needed a change of scenery. So does Brown.

If fans ran teams, they would have 16 starting line-ups and a decade of 2-14 seasons. Thank goodness people with the football smarts don't have the same knee-jerk philosophy.

PapaL
01-13-2010, 02:27 PM
As for the gratitude comment in the title - he should show the team gratitude for not cutting his sorry "leg".

GuerillaBlack
01-13-2010, 02:36 PM
If fans ran teams, they would have 16 starting line-ups and a decade of 2-14 seasons. Thank goodness people with the football smarts don't have the same knee-jerk philosophy.

Knee-jerk philosophy? Let's see, I'll give you two examples: John Carney missed field goals, Sean Payton cuts him. Nick Folk misses field goals (the last straw was the New Orleans game), Jerry Jones cuts him. Do those teams play this weekend? Yes. Do the Texans? No. Why? We couldn't make field goals. We couldn't make one to tie in Indy. I'll give him a pass on that one. We couldn't make one to tie at home on MNF. Hell, it could have been the one to win if he had made on earlier in the game. And it just continued. This last New England game was especially bad. The dude just sucks.

This is really the first time I've seen anybody want to keep a kicker after he misses so many field goals because he is a good guy.

I'm glad fans aren't running teams either, because if so, we'd probably still be trotting out David Carr.

Runner
01-13-2010, 02:41 PM
If fans ran teams, they would have 16 starting line-ups and a decade of 2-14 seasons. Thank goodness people with the football smarts don't have the same knee-jerk philosophy.


I think we need to add "knee-jerk" to the Texans Talk dictionary. The meaning as used on this board is "any action taken before the poster using the word deems the action necessary, even if said action is done at a snail's pace."

A move to cut Kris Brown or add an additional kicker before the end of last season is anything but knee-jerk with its normal definition of "reflexive action done without thinking".

In NFL terms, this decision has been glacial. I'm still astounded he was the kicker for the Texans against the Patriots, in a game they HAD to win to have a chance to make the playoffs. With his two missed field goals and missed extra point, I think it is safe to say the Texans won in spite of the decision to keep him.

Texecutioner
01-13-2010, 02:54 PM
If fans ran teams, they would have 16 starting line-ups and a decade of 2-14 seasons. Thank goodness people with the football smarts don't have the same knee-jerk philosophy.

Yes, because if fans were running the team with this thought process that you seem to have Capers would still be here along with Carr because getting rid of them would have been a "knee jerk" reaction and Casserly would still be our GM along with Amaan Green helping out Chris Brown at RB.

Kickers are a dime a dozen for the most part. Brown was damn good for a while, and I'll credit that to him, but it became painfully obvious that we needed at least one more K on this roster. Ignoring that, hurt the team and the franchise period. There is no rebuttal to argue that we didn't need another kicker on our team for the 2nd half of the season after Brown choked so many opportunities they way he did.

Porky
01-13-2010, 02:57 PM
I don't get why some people have such a hangup about calling a duck a duck. KB kicks like a duck, shits like a duck and when he tries to blame himself like Kubiak does all I hear is "Quack Quack QUUuuaaaack!!!"

Did Kris Brown put on an atrocious display of kicking this past season?
Quack
Did he miss every single field goal in every single pressure situation?
Quack
Did these misses likely keep the Texans from a better record than 9-7?
Quack
Would 1 or 3 more win(s) have us in the playoffs?
Quack
So it's safe to assume KB played a large role in blocking the team from a post season berth?
Quack but here's the deal. On one hand you see the team and it's failures and say, "Oh it's not just KB's fault, the team shouldn't put him in that position." On the other hand you have to look at game deciding kicks in a vaccuum. Nothing else matters when they start lining up for the kick, all that matters is that the guy who is paid solely and exclusively on his ability to make kicks does his job. Kickers are over praised/over criticized just like QBs are because their job is more decisive than the rest of the team but he missed all the big kicks. All of them. There isn't middle ground here and if there was KB couldn't kick a ball through it.

Oh and he missed an extra point. QUACK. That's a guy who is really, really, I mean truly struggling with his confidence. People on quack don't have the jitters that bad. But that's the guy you just want to thank because of all the kicks he made when they were not making any playoff noise?

Awesome and funny post and totally true. I'd rep you if I could.

I'm in the dump him now crowd. The guy was terrible and the more clutch the situation and the further into the season where each play and kick was magnified - the worse he got. That's the opposite of ideal. That should be us this Sunday instead of the Jets and it would have been if it wasn't for Kris Brown. Inexcusable and unfogivable. He's done.

I like Kris Brown the person. He is awesome, and by all account a great family man and has a great charity. But, right now I HATE Kris Brown the football player. Let him go somewhere else or retire and go on to the next part of his life.

Nawzer
01-13-2010, 03:19 PM
The problem with bringing him back is that we won't really know if he's still good or bad until a regular season game. That means that he can still cost us games next year before we truly realize he's done. And I don't think the Texans coaches will take that risk unless they are 100% confident that Kris Brown won't cost us games but win us games like he did in the past.

houstonspartan
01-13-2010, 03:23 PM
The problem with bringing him back is that we won't really know if he's still good or bad until a regular season game. That means that he can still cost us games next year before we truly realize he's done. And I don't think the Texans coaches will take that risk unless they are 100% confident that Kris Brown won't cost us games but win us games like he did in the past.

That's why I say flat out release him. If we bring in competition, I really believe it'll be a sham. Kris will get the job, because the coaches like him so much. Let's just start all over.

TimeKiller
01-13-2010, 03:25 PM
Speaking of getting a few legs in for camp, Matt Turk is 64. Can we bring in a punter too?

DexmanC
01-13-2010, 03:27 PM
Speaking of getting a few legs in for camp, Matt Turk is 64. Can we bring in a punter too?

Turk took Chad Stanley's job in year 2 of Kubiak. What did Stanley
do to piss Kubiak off?

TD
01-13-2010, 03:53 PM
This is really the first time I've seen anybody want to keep a kicker after he misses so many field goals because he is a good guy.

Don't know who you're talking about cuz its not me. I want to evaluate and make sure we have a better option first that's all. I also don't like the way the same people who would have gladly given Kris a free hand job the last couple of years are now now bad-mouthing his entire career. Its classless......plain and simple. And typical.

houstonspartan
01-13-2010, 03:58 PM
Don't know who you're talking about cuz its not me. I want to evaluate and make sure we have a better option first that's all. I also don't like the way the same people who would have gladly given Kris a free hand job the last couple of years are now now bad-mouthing his entire career. Its classless......plain and simple. And typical.

Whatever you're smoking, you need to stop.


Throughout this thread, people have said, time and time again, that Kris is a good guy, and that he had some great years for us, but we need to move on. No one is bad mouthing his entire career.

I was at the Miami game a few years ago when he hit three 50 plus yarders. It was amazing, and I praised him.

However, that was a long time ago. I respect Kris's achievements, but it's time he moved on. Plus, I think a new team could possibly do him some good.

Quite honestly, your "let's wait to see if we have a better option first" is a losers mentality. You know perfectly well that it's not THAT hard to find a good kicker.

HoustonFrog
01-13-2010, 03:58 PM
Don't know who you're talking about cuz its not me. I want to evaluate and make sure we have a better option first that's all. I also don't like the way the same people who would have gladly given Kris a free hand job the last couple of years are now now bad-mouthing his entire career.

I don't think people are bad mouthing his career. They are basically explaining the reality of it.....he isn't a once in a lifetime kicker. He is an average NFL kicker who has had a few good years. It isn't like we are discussing if DeMeco is over the hill 6 years from now. You can find a Kris Brown type kicker with a phone call to some free agents out there. No matter how he does in camp, this season may make it hard for him come game time next season.

GuerillaBlack
01-13-2010, 04:00 PM
Whatever you're smoking, you need to stop.


Throughout this thread, people have said, time and time again, that Kris is a good guy, and that he had some great years for us, but we need to move on. No one is bad mouthing his entire career.

I was at the Miami game a few years ago when he hit three 50 plus yarders. It was amazing, and I praised him.

However, that was a long time ago. I respect Kris's achievements, but it's time he moved on. Plus, I think a new team could possibly do him some good.

Quite honestly, your "let's wait to see if we have a better option first" is a losers mentality. You know perfectly well that it's not THAT hard to find a good kicker.

I don't think people are bad mouthing his career. They are basically explaining the reality of it.....he isn't a once in a lifetime kicker. He is an average NFL kicker who has had a few good years. It isn't like we are discussing if DeMeco is over the hill 6 years from now. You can find a Kris Brown type kicker with a phone call to some free agents out there. No matter how he does in camp, this season may make it hard for him come game time next season.

Yep.

Thorn
01-13-2010, 04:07 PM
The discussions around Kris Brown remind me of the discussions about Kubiak. I like them both, they've both done good things for the Texans, but it's time to move on. Kubiak is back next year, so that discussion is over with, but Brown will likely not be kicking for us next year.

TD
01-13-2010, 04:25 PM
I don't think people are bad mouthing his career. They are basically explaining the reality of it.....he isn't a once in a lifetime kicker. He is an average NFL kicker who has had a few good years. It isn't like we are discussing if DeMeco is over the hill 6 years from now. You can find a Kris Brown type kicker with a phone call to some free agents out there. No matter how he does in camp, this season may make it hard for him come game time next season.

Well...when you say this year is typical of his career, I consider that bad mouthing as it is flat untrue.

As to the rest....you're right. Although, I suspect it'll be harder on the fans than anyone else if he returns. I don't know Brown's mental toughness...clearly he let himself get rattled this year, but its not like he pulled an Ian Howfield.

HuttoKarl
01-13-2010, 04:30 PM
Well...when you say this year is typical of his career, I consider that bad mouthing as it is flat untrue.

As to the rest....you're right. Although, I suspect it'll be harder on the fans than anyone else if he returns. I don't know Brown's mental toughness...clearly he let himself get rattled this year, but its not like he pulled an Ian Howfield.

He's been around the low to mid 70's in FG% except for three seasons. He missed 11 last year...that's horrible. You act like he's your brother the way you're sticking up for him despite his lack of kicking ability. If he is, tell him to stop shanking kicks.

Double Barrel
01-13-2010, 04:36 PM
Don't know who you're talking about cuz its not me. I want to evaluate and make sure we have a better option first that's all. I also don't like the way the same people who would have gladly given Kris a free hand job the last couple of years are now now bad-mouthing his entire career. Its classless......plain and simple. And typical.

Did you really just call someone else classless after making a gay hand job blast? :mcnugget:

TD
01-13-2010, 04:42 PM
Did you really just call someone else classless after making a gay hand job blast? :mcnugget:

How do you know I was talking about men? Its a smart ass way of saying the people that loved him are throwing him under the bus. Put your your big boy pants on.

No More 8-8's
01-13-2010, 04:43 PM
Did you really just call someone else classless after making a gay hand job blast? :mcnugget:

You should never combine the words "Blast" and "Gay Hand Job" together in a sentence.

TD
01-13-2010, 04:44 PM
He's been around the low to mid 70's in FG% except for three seasons. He missed 11 last year...that's horrible. You act like he's your brother the way you're sticking up for him despite his lack of kicking ability. If he is, tell him to stop shanking kicks.

See....that's a flat lie. He has been above 80% FIVE OF HIS ELEVEN SEASONS.

If being fair (and truthful) about somebody is sticking up for them, then I stick up for EVERYONE.

HuttoKarl
01-13-2010, 04:46 PM
See....that's a flat lie. He has been above 80% FIVE OF HIS ELEVEN SEASONS.

If being fair (and truthful) about somebody is sticking up for them, then I stick up for EVERYONE.

Two of them for the Steelers.

As a Texan, he's been average, at best, and this past season he was horrendous. 11 FG's missed. Two in a game we lost by three. If you can't tie a game and send it to overtime with a FG, then you just lost the game for your team.

KB wasn't our only problem, but to act like we owe him anything is insane.

eriadoc
01-13-2010, 04:48 PM
I also don't like the way the same people who would have gladly given Kris a free hand job the last couple of years are now now bad-mouthing his entire career. Its classless......plain and simple. And typical.

I know you aren't referring to me, but just for a bit of historical reference, here's a post (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=661688#post661688) (followed by more in the same thread) I made back in '06.

Mr teX
01-13-2010, 04:50 PM
Kris Brown deserves nothing but a knap sack & a kick in the *&^ on the way out....

BIG TORO
01-13-2010, 04:51 PM
Why are we on page 4 of Kris brown, this is redicoulous! he was a decent kicker a point in his career and he sucks now. thats all to it!

HoustonFrog
01-13-2010, 04:51 PM
Well...when you say this year is typical of his career, I consider that bad mouthing as it is flat untrue.

As to the rest....you're right. Although, I suspect it'll be harder on the fans than anyone else if he returns. I don't know Brown's mental toughness...clearly he let himself get rattled this year, but its not like he pulled an Ian Howfield.

Hey "Hulk" Brown, I didn't say it was "typical." :) I said this season is closer to the truth for his career campared to 3 good ones here. When the majority of your career on a team is average to below average and there are 3 good years, then my statement makes sense. Again, I'm not sure why you are so excited about a career average kicker when there are FA like Neil Rackers, Stephen Gostkowski, Shayne Graham, Dan Carpenter, Jay Feely, New York Jets (34), Garrett Hartley, New Orleans Saints (24), Sebastian Janikowski, Oakland Raiders (32), Olindo Mare, Seattle Seahawks (37), Matt Prater, Denver Broncos (26) – Restricted FA, Jeff Reed, Pittsburgh Steelers (31), Shaun Suisham, Cowboys (28) Heck, as I stated earlier, fixing Nick Folk is better than Brown and he is on his couch.

Why are we on page 4 of Kris brown, this is redicoulous! he was a decent kicker a point in his career and he sucks now. thats all to it!

This

houstonspartan
01-13-2010, 04:51 PM
I know you aren't referring to me, but just for a bit of historical reference, here's a post (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=661688#post661688) (followed by more in the same thread) I made back in '06.

Wow. I don't know what to say.

scourge
01-13-2010, 05:00 PM
How do you know I was talking about men? Its a smart ass way of saying the people that loved him are throwing him under the bus. Put your your big boy pants on.

Probably because the people you are referring to are far more likely to be guys than gals. How many girls you think post here, and have this stance, compared to men? The percentage of men for this specific comment you made is highly likely to be far better than Kris Brown's % has ever been.

And while we are on Kris Brown's %, here is something to think about. Lets take Kris' att/made for each season and calculate how many more fg's he would've had to make to hit 80%. If you take that and look at those teams faced each of those seasons and take games we lost by 3 or less where he missed a fg...
2002 we would've taken Jax to OT and potentially been 5-11
2004 same with GB and possibly 8-8
2005 same to possibly be 3-13
2006 no difference
2009 OT with Indy and win against Ten, to potentially be 10-6 minimum or 11-5 at best.

while 02, and 05 wouldn't have really made a difference, it would've been nice to hit 8-8 that early on, and we all know how much that woulda meant to '09.

TD
01-13-2010, 05:06 PM
I know you aren't referring to me, but just for a bit of historical reference, here's a post (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=661688#post661688) (followed by more in the same thread) I made back in '06.

Yep....and back then you had a VERY good argument. Stangely though, you were silent about him during 07-08 except to say he belonged in the Pro Bowl. (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1067066&postcount=8) ;)

The funny thing here is that I am saying that he sucked this year and that he should have to fight for job next year, but because I don't want to throw him on (under) a bus on I-45 today, I'm some huge fan who thinks he walks on water. Geez people get a grip and READ.

I need to see how many people here were screaming to dump Schaub the last year or two...I bet it would make pretty interesting reading today.

HOU-TEX
01-13-2010, 05:11 PM
Man! I've got to take a dump

houstonspartan
01-13-2010, 05:11 PM
Yep....and back then you had a VERY good argument. Stangely though, you were silent about him during 07-08 except to say he belonged in the Pro Bowl. (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1067066&postcount=8) ;)

The funny thing here is that I am saying that he sucked this year and that he should have to fight for job next year, but because I don't want to throw him on a bus up I-45 today, I'm some huge fan who thinks he walks on water. Geez people get a grip and READ.

I need to see how many people here were screaming to dump Schaub the last year or two...I bet it would make pretty interesting reading.

And you seem to think that praising him a few years ago is the equavalent of "giving a hand job."

YOU need to get a grip.

You're in "aw shucks, give the guy a chance mode." The Texans have done that WAAAAAY too much in their short history. Uh uh. In the case of Kris Brown, we've seen all we've needed to see.

HoustonFrog
01-13-2010, 05:15 PM
Yep....and back then you had a VERY good argument. Stangely though, you were silent about him during 07-08 except to say he belonged in the Pro Bowl. (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1067066&postcount=8) ;)

The funny thing here is that I am saying that he sucked this year and that he should have to fight for job next year, but because I don't want to throw him on (under) a bus on I-45 today, I'm some huge fan who thinks he walks on water. Geez people get a grip and READ.

I need to see how many people here were screaming to dump Schaub the last year or two...I bet it would make pretty interesting reading today.

I wanted Carr gone and defended Schaub from Day 1. Check it.

People are ripping you because you really are defensive about what some of us wrote earlier...he is an average kicker and average kicker's are a dime a dozen. It is a truth in the NFL. It's pretty simple. The minute people stop rewarding average around the team, the better it will get. Do you think the players love Kris because of his personality and ignore the misses?No, because it is his only job.

Goldensilence
01-13-2010, 05:23 PM
Yep....and back then you had a VERY good argument. Stangely though, you were silent about him during 07-08 except to say he belonged in the Pro Bowl. (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1067066&postcount=8) ;)

The funny thing here is that I am saying that he sucked this year and that he should have to fight for job next year, but because I don't want to throw him on (under) a bus on I-45 today, I'm some huge fan who thinks he walks on water. Geez people get a grip and READ.

I need to see how many people here were screaming to dump Schaub the last year or two...I bet it would make pretty interesting reading today.

To be fair the argument against Matt Schaub included another person at the position, who despite whatever I thought,some people thought he could be a better long term answer. I don't think it was until the fateful rosenchopter incident did the answer become glaringly clear to even those who were willing to look past Sage Rosenfels short comings.

I think the point of the past freaking 4 pages is pretty simple. Kris Bown = average kicker with a year or two highlight.

I thought it was pretty sad that even a team that ended up 4-14 with a lame duck headcoach in Jim Zorn could make the call on cutting a kicker that cost them a win.

TD
01-13-2010, 05:24 PM
Probably because the people you are referring to are far more likely to be guys than gals. How many girls you think post here, and have this stance, compared to men? The percentage of men for this specific comment you made is highly likely to be far better than Kris Brown's % has ever been.

And while we are on Kris Brown's %, here is something to think about. Lets take Kris' att/made for each season and calculate how many more fg's he would've had to make to hit 80%. If you take that and look at those teams faced each of those seasons and take games we lost by 3 or less where he missed a fg...
2002 we would've taken Jax to OT and potentially been 5-11
2004 same with GB and possibly 8-8
2005 same to possibly be 3-13
2006 no difference
2009 OT with Indy and win against Ten, to potentially be 10-6 minimum or 11-5 at best.

while 02, and 05 wouldn't have really made a difference, it would've been nice to hit 8-8 that early on, and we all know how much that woulda meant to '09.

Not much there....I do think you have to look at games won by three or less where he didn't have a miss (especially if there were any long ones) to make that fair. I seem to remember this being looked at in pretty good detail a few years ago, but I don't remember the results. I do know he was 100% in 2007-2008 when the game was tied, so.........

scourge
01-13-2010, 05:51 PM
My point wasn't whether or not he was occasionally clutch, it was that to make it to that magical 80% to be on the low end of average, those particular key misses not only helped keep him below 80%(below 71% in 3 of those seasons) but also potentially cost us specific games.

eriadoc
01-13-2010, 06:04 PM
Yep....and back then you had a VERY good argument. Stangely though, you were silent about him during 07-08 except to say he belonged in the Pro Bowl. (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1067066&postcount=8) ;)

Two things:

1.) I've made it clear in a few different threads that I like Kris Brown. I like him as a person, and I don't wish bad things upon him. When he straightened his act up in '07 and '08 (both very good years, not just good), then I figured OK, cool, he's figured it out.

2.) After a two year reprieve, he's back to what he really has been for most of his career.

The numbers are what they are. Two good years and one average year out of the past nine don't make him a good kicker. If I hadn't noticed it back then, perhaps I'd be as surprised as y'all are about how bad a kicker he's been. Instead, those numbers stuck with me, and I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop (and hoping it didn't).

Double Barrel
01-13-2010, 06:07 PM
How do you know I was talking about men? Its a smart ass way of saying the people that loved him are throwing him under the bus. Put your your big boy pants on.

Considering 99% of this forum is men, and considering all of the anti-Brown posters in this thread are men, it's pretty safe to make the connection. I understand why you said it, but still, you said it. Out of all the ways that you could have created a metaphor or allegorical connection, you went for this example. Should I somehow infer that your defense of Brown has a homosexual undertone? Of course not. Which is why I found it a bit weird that you went there.

I have absolutely no idea what "put your big boy pants on" has do do with gay sex references, but I guess it works in your mind. :boogereater:

You should never combine the words "Blast" and "Gay Hand Job" together in a sentence.

lol! yeah, I never made the connection, but...ummm...yeah. :rake:

Texan_Bill
01-13-2010, 06:10 PM
:backsout:

Norg
01-13-2010, 06:15 PM
Iam on the Lets FIre Kris brown and get some new young stud in here Boat screw compention so yeahhh

TD
01-13-2010, 06:35 PM
Considering 99% of this forum is men, and considering all of the anti-Brown posters in this thread are men, it's pretty safe to make the connection. I understand why you said it, but still, you said it. Out of all the ways that you could have created a metaphor or allegorical connection, you went for this example. Should I somehow infer that your defense of Brown has a homosexual undertone? Of course not. Which is why I found it a bit weird that you went there.

Its just a TDism I use relatively often. Man-crush is overused and boring.

I have absolutely no idea what "put your big boy pants on" has do do with gay sex references, but I guess it works in your mind.

Just another of my isms that I use when somebody seems offended by something silly. Perhaps...a simple "grow up" would be better. :)

scourge
01-13-2010, 06:51 PM
Considering 99% of this forum is men, and considering all of the anti-Brown posters in this thread are men, it's pretty safe to make the connection.

lol, that's exactly what I said earlier...


Probably because the people you are referring to are far more likely to be guys than gals. How many girls you think post here, and have this stance, compared to men? The percentage of men for this specific comment you made is highly likely to be far better than Kris Brown's % has ever been.

barrett
01-13-2010, 07:46 PM
gay hand job blast?

How do you know I was talking about men? Put your your big boy pants on.


99% of this forum is men

put your big boy pants on

:backsout:

FUN WITH THE QUOTE FUNCTION AND THE DELETE KEY! God I love our Texans Talk friends!

TexanBacker93
01-14-2010, 09:27 AM
Kris just needs to earn his job back next year.
Come into camp, against legit competition, and show the team and fans that he can regain the form and consistency he had when he was kicking 50+ yarders with regularity. If he gets his swagger back he stays. If he doesn't, "so long and thanks for all the kicks".
...well, at least all the game winners. :)

The problem with this scenario is with the NFL and the cheap owners limiting the training camp rosters, can a team really afford to have 2 kickers on it's roster? You need extra at all the contact positions so these guys can stay fresh and keep from getting a starter injured. You can look at them during OTAs and minicamps when you aren't limited, but you need to see what they can do during game situations.

I imagine Brown was hitting everything during pregames and practices. I don't even know if preseason will determine if he's over the yips. It's not like the make believe games matter.

Grams
01-14-2010, 10:02 AM
From the 1% that is NOT male.

I also think that it is time for Kris Brown to go.

I appreciate what he has done for us in the past, but the misses he made this year cost us games.

While a miss on a +50 yarder is not something I would hold against a kicker, I think most of the "pressure" misses were well inside the 50 and should have been made.

He cost us at least 1 win if not 2 and 1 win would have put up in the playoffs.

Say thanks for the memories and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

infantrycak
01-14-2010, 10:13 AM
While a miss on a +50 yarder is not something I would hold against a kicker, I think most of the "pressure" misses were well inside the 50 and should have been made.

He cost us at least 1 win if not 2 and 1 win would have put up in the playoffs.

Say thanks for the memories and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

I don't mind if they bring him to TC but he was missing must hit kicks this year.

20-29 yds - 2 misses
30-39 yds - 3 misses
40-49 yds - 4 misses on just 6 attempts.
50-59 yds - 2 misses

I'll give him the two over 50 yards although he should have hit at least one of those, but 33% in the 40's and missing inside 30 are inexcusable.

TD
01-14-2010, 10:18 AM
Just on a lark, I looked at Morten Andersen's first 10 years in the league. Anyone care to guess who was better between him and Brown? In fact, if not for a really good last few years, their career averages would be almost identical. (Brown would be slightly better)

Kicking is a weird science.

For the record....I am NOT saying Brown is Andersen....I am just pointing out that his sucky 2009 does not spell the end. Anderson was mid to low 70% 3 of 6 years before finishing his career with 7 straight at over 80%. Just something to think about.

TD
01-14-2010, 10:27 AM
I'll give him the two over 50 yards although he should have hit at least one of those, but 33% in the 40's and missing inside 30 are inexcusable.

As is the PAT....Let's face it, he LOST IT in a Chuck Knoblach kind of way. I don't think anyone would excuse or defend the swoon. The only question is it an aberration or permanent mental block. I find it hard to believe its a physical problem.

HuttoKarl
01-14-2010, 10:33 AM
TD...if anything, I admire your loyalty.

Personally...I wanted Crosby (a powerful legged kicker from central Texas) after Brown's last horrible season. I would like to see us get some GOOD competition for Brown. I don't think we'll have a kicker change because Kubiak is too wishy-washy about ditching duds, but a guy can hope. If we have to sit through another season of holding our breath for every FG attempt and some PAT's as well, I hope Kris proves me wrong...but I won't bet the ranch on it.

HoustonFrog
01-14-2010, 10:41 AM
Just on a lark, I looked at Morten Andersen's first 10 years in the league. Anyone care to guess who was better between him and Brown? In fact, if not for a really good last few years, their career averages would be almost identical. (Brown would be slightly better)

Kicking is a weird science.

For the record....I am NOT saying Brown is Andersen....I am just pointing out that his sucky 2009 does not spell the end. Anderson was mid to low 70% 3 of 6 years before finishing his career with 7 straight at over 80%. Just something to think about.

Morten Anderson is considered by some to be one of the top kickers of all time. Over 24 years his percentage was 79.7%. He only missed 10 extra points in all that time. I think he is the career scoring leader on 3 teams. I give him more credit because he started in 1982 when there was alot less indoor play. He also had 103 game winning FGs. He has 40 FGs of 50 or more. Again, I realize you aren't saying Brown is Anderson but this is kind of like the argument that Kubiak can be Landry.

TD
01-14-2010, 10:55 AM
TD...if anything, I admire your loyalty

Its not loyalty...its fear that the Texans make the wrong decision without looking at it fully; some team picks him up; and he returns to 2007-2008 form. The only solace I have is that I know it won't be the Titans which would KILL me.


Morten Anderson is considered by some to be one of the top kickers of all time. Over 24 years his percentage was 79.7%. He only missed 10 extra points in all that time. I think he is the career scoring leader on 3 teams. I give him more credit because he started in 1982 when there was alot less indoor play. He also had 103 game winning FGs. He has 40 FGs of 50 or more. Again, I realize you aren't saying Brown is Anderson but this is kind of like the argument that Kubiak can be Landry.

Brown kicked in Pittsburgh and Andersen kicked in New Orleans....sorry but advantage Brown. Nice try though.

All the rest of the accolades would NEVER have happened if Andersen's career had ended as the mediocre kicker he was his first 10 years. So why throw Brown away today instead of after TC next year? There is ZERO logic in it.

GuerillaBlack
01-14-2010, 11:08 AM
Its not loyalty...its fear that the Texans make the wrong decision without looking at it fully; some team picks him up; and he returns to 2007-2008 form. The only solace I have is that I know it won't be the Titans which would KILL me.

Stop acting like Kris Brown is some stud kicker. He is a VERY replaceable below average kicker.

HoustonFrog
01-14-2010, 11:13 AM
Its not loyalty...its fear that the Texans make the wrong decision without looking at it fully; some team picks him up; and he returns to 2007-2008 form. The only solace I have is that I know it won't be the Titans which would KILL me.




Brown kicked in Pittsburgh and Andersen kicked in New Orleans....sorry but advantage Brown. Nice try though.

All the rest of the accolades would NEVER have happened if Andersen's career had ended as the mediocre kicker he was his first 10 years. So why throw Brown away today instead of after TC next year? There is ZERO logic in it.


I can't say anymore. Your first paragraph is a total loser mentality and is a ridiculous way to think. As I said the Cowboys cut a 3 year guy who was 89% his first 2 years because he was losing games. Your statement has ZERO logic. Just like any sport, changes in scenery can help. Suisam misses important kicks in 2 games and was gone even though he only missed 3 kicks all year. The Cowboys sign him and he hasn't missed. If he misses in the playoffs it will be no different than Folk who already missed 10 kicks and almost single handedly blew the NO game and a chance at the playoffs.

Brown has no advantage over Anderson. Your way of thinking can apply to anyone. Tiki Barber fumbled alot to start his career and then ended his career strong therefore Slaton is closer to Tiki Barber than Kevin Faulk. It is a fantasy world. Anderson was named to 6 Pro Bowls his first 10 years. He was considered "Mr. Automatic." 14 of 24 years in the 80%. Only 1 full season in 24 years under 70% and that was 69%. You really are barking up the wrong tree.

HOU-TEX
01-14-2010, 11:13 AM
I've tried to stay away from this thread because I realize KB has been a board favorite. I think he's a good dude, but in the end we've got to do what's best for the team.

KB, and kickers alike, get paid nice chunks of change to kick. KB was just extended this past off-season signing for 4 years $10 million and 2.5 guaranteed. That's more than what a lot of position players receive. Players that actually put themselves in harms way getting paid less than a kicker? A kicker that has had an inconsistent career to boot?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't an uncapped year mean teams can dump players without taking a cap hit? If so, I would think now would be the time to send him packing.

Texan_Bill
01-14-2010, 11:16 AM
Morten Anderson is considered by some to be one of the top kickers of all time. Over 24 years his percentage was 79.7%. He only missed 10 extra points in all that time. I think he is the career scoring leader on 3 teams. I give him more credit because he started in 1982 when there was alot less indoor play. He also had 103 game winning FGs. He has 40 FGs of 50 or more. Again, I realize you aren't saying Brown is Anderson but this is kind of like the argument that Kubiak can be Landry.

Morten Andersen...... :thinking:

25 seasons with New Orleans, Atlanta, NYG, KC, Minnesota and back to Atlanta. 22 seasons indoors. :hmmm:

And before someone says kicking indoors doesn't matter.... It DOES. I got and extra 10 yards on my kicks in the Astrodome versus Butler Stadium.

GuerillaBlack
01-14-2010, 11:18 AM
Morten Andersen...... :thinking:

25 seasons with New Orleans, Atlanta, NYG, KC, Minnesota and back to Atlanta. 22 seasons indoors. :hmmm:

And before someone says kicking indoors doesn't matter.... It DOES. I got and extra 10 yards on my kicks in the Astrodome versus Butler Stadium.

Wait, you're a kicker? Why didn't you go talk to Kubiak?

I now blame the losses on you.

HoustonFrog
01-14-2010, 11:21 AM
Morten Andersen...... :thinking:

25 seasons with New Orleans, Atlanta, NYG, KC, Minnesota and back to Atlanta. 22 seasons indoors. :hmmm:

And before someone says kicking indoors doesn't matter.... It DOES. I got and extra 10 yards on my kicks in the Astrodome versus Butler Stadium.

My point was from when he started many stadiums weren't indoors. He didn't play ALL home games. But point made. I kicked too and never kicked indoors. So I wouldn't know. The guy was still a 6 time PB'er his first 10 years. He and Kris Brown aren't one in the same.

Texan_Bill
01-14-2010, 11:21 AM
Wait, you're a kicker? Why didn't you go talk to Kubiak?

I now blame the losses on you.

I was a LB, OL and back-up kicker. That's why I stayed out of it.... :runaway:

HoustonFrog
01-14-2010, 11:32 AM
I was a LB, OL and back-up kicker. That's why I stayed out of it.... :runaway:

I was WR, DB and kicker. Kicked barefoot. Could kick deep on kickoffs and we didn't kick alot of FGs but hit a long of 45. Hit from 50 in practice. Not sure why I enjoyed barefoot...felt like I could get more on the ball. In law school, while drunk, we went up to Bellaire HS and tried to kick FGs. I basically almost broke my foot and there were big bruises all over the top of my foot. I guess your body feels better between 16-18 :)

eriadoc
01-14-2010, 12:18 PM
So why throw Brown away today instead of after TC next year? There is ZERO logic in it.

I wouldn't say zero. I see at least two points of merit to dumping him now. First, it sends a message that performance is key, regardless of your contract status. You think players in the locker room aren't waiting for that hammer to fall? They know KB cost them chances.

Second, there's nothing you learn about KB in camp that you don't already know. You either confirm that he's lost it completely, or he makes the few kicks he gets chances at, in which case he still hasn't proven how he'll perform under pressure.

The one thing you do have to refer to, that is incontrovertible fact, is his 10+ year track record. Nothing in that track record suggests you can't do better.

Runner
01-14-2010, 12:36 PM
I wouldn't say zero. I see at least two points of merit to dumping him now. First, it sends a message that performance is key, regardless of your contract status. You think players in the locker room aren't waiting for that hammer to fall? They know KB cost them chances.

Second, there's nothing you learn about KB in camp that you don't already know. You either confirm that he's lost it completely, or he makes the few kicks he gets chances at, in which case he still hasn't proven how he'll perform under pressure.

The one thing you do have to refer to, that is incontrovertible fact, is his 10+ year track record. Nothing in that track record suggests you can't do better.

I don't see any real value to the team in dumping him now. The team lost the chance to send the performance message when they let him finish out the year. A team 100% committed to winning would have replaced him before the big week 16 and 17 games; maybe sooner. Trying to sign Carney or the guy that had the best performance in the recently completed UFL season would have been a lower risk than hoping Brown would snap out of it. The Texans were content to wait until next year before replacing the faulty part - that's the message they sent.

There might be some advantage to Brown himself if he is cut now, so he could shop his services around.

In any case, I don't think it will be difficult to replace him with a better kicker whenever the team gets around to making that decision.

TD
01-14-2010, 12:37 PM
The one thing you do have to refer to, that is incontrovertible fact, is his 10+ year track record. Nothing in that track record suggests you can't do better.

Of course you can do better...you can also do worse. Or do you think teams that have worse kickers (sans last year) do so when there are better options out there?

Unless someone with a proven record of year in - year out consistency is there to pick up, you're taking a flyer no matter what. That's all I'm saying.

TD
01-14-2010, 12:40 PM
Stop acting like Kris Brown is some stud kicker. He is a VERY replaceable below average kicker.

Show me where I ever called him a stud (or great, or top tier, or awesome, or even really good).....can't anybody on this board @#$%^*ing read?????

TimeKiller
01-14-2010, 12:46 PM
Is this thread still alive?

Wowzers.

GuerillaBlack
01-14-2010, 12:50 PM
Show me where I ever called him a stud (or great, or top tier, or awesome, or even really good).....can't anybody on this board @#$%^*ing read?????

Did I say you called him a stud? Maybe you should learn how to read?

Look at the quote made by you:

Its not loyalty...its fear that the Texans make the wrong decision without looking at it fully; some team picks him up; and he returns to 2007-2008 form. The only solace I have is that I know it won't be the Titans which would KILL me.

That, to me, looks you defending Brown as if he's a stud kicker. He's below-average. I highly doubt we should be "fearing" Kris Brown.

Thorn
01-14-2010, 01:03 PM
Is this thread still alive?

Wowzers.

Exactly. LOL.

If they wanted rid of Brown in a way so as to make a statement, it would have happened already. It hasn't. Since he's under a contract, he'll be back for training camp unless they trade him, and no one would want him. So, we all get to see him this coming fall again.

TD
01-14-2010, 01:11 PM
That, to me, looks you defending Brown as if he's a stud kicker. He's below-average. I highly doubt we should be "fearing" Kris Brown.

You're inferring what isn't there. I am defending that the FO should evaluate next TC and then decide. It is just plain stupid to cut him now. Believe it or not, we could wind up with worse IF he corrects himself.

I don't LOVE Kris Brown...he is not my brother....I don't worship him from afar. I make a living talking people out of making premature decisions. It bleeds over here I guess.

GuerillaBlack
01-14-2010, 01:16 PM
Premature would have bene cutting Kris Brown during training camp in '09. Premature stopped after the MNF game against Tennessee. His due date arrived the Tuesday after.

rush2112mn
01-14-2010, 01:57 PM
All I know is the Texans need to bring in some competition at both punter and kicker.

Kris Brown is going to have to prove himself. His job is not safe.

NBT
01-14-2010, 02:15 PM
While I agree Kris Brown had a down year, it was not altogether his fault. By that I mean, the kicker has to have coordination and cooperation between himself, the holder and the ST center. Last year he ended up with Hawkins I believe at center. This year because of injuries, he has had at least 3 different snappers. Dreesen, Casey (R), and one other. I'm not taking up for Kris, I'm just saying that with all the turmoil it was hard to keep his confidence up.

disaacks3
01-14-2010, 02:19 PM
While I agree Kris Brown had a down year, it was not altogether his fault. By that I mean, the kicker has to have coordination and cooperation between himself, the holder and the ST center. Last year he ended up with Hawkins I believe at center. This year because of injuries, he has had at least 3 different snappers. Dreesen, Casey (R), and one other. I'm not taking up for Kris, I'm just saying that with all the turmoil it was hard to keep his confidence up. I'd buy that if a good-sized portion of these were bad/high snap situations...they clearly weren't.

Texan_Bill
01-14-2010, 02:25 PM
I was WR, DB and kicker. Kicked barefoot. Could kick deep on kickoffs and we didn't kick alot of FGs but hit a long of 45. Hit from 50 in practice. Not sure why I enjoyed barefoot...felt like I could get more on the ball. In law school, while drunk, we went up to Bellaire HS and tried to kick FGs. I basically almost broke my foot and there were big bruises all over the top of my foot. I guess your body feels better between 16-18 :)

I kicked barefoot as well. Tony Franklin was my hero. Anywho, I tried kicking a ball last year and I hurt my hip, groin, knee and I also bruised my foot. WTF?? Sucks getting old.

scourge
01-14-2010, 03:12 PM
You're inferring what isn't there. I am defending that the FO should evaluate next TC and then decide. It is just plain stupid to cut him now. Believe it or not, we could wind up with worse IF he corrects himself.


You compared him to Andersen. With or without your disclaimer, you compared him to Andersen, a stud. That tells me you acting like he may have stud potential.

Just on a lark, I looked at Morten Andersen's first 10 years in the league. Anyone care to guess who was better between him and Brown? In fact, if not for a really good last few years, their career averages would be almost identical. (Brown would be slightly better)



Just on a lark, I looked at Roger Staubach's and John Elway's first 5 years to compare them to David Carr's 5 with the Texans...
Staubach - 66.4 QB rating
Elway - 72.86 QB rating
Carr - 75.02 QB rating

What were we thinking?!?!?!? Shoulda brought him back to compete.

infantrycak
01-14-2010, 03:24 PM
Just on a lark, I looked at Roger Staubach's and John Elway's first 5 years to compare them to David Carr's 5 with the Texans...
Staubach - 66.4 QB rating
Elway - 72.86 QB rating
Carr - 75.02 QB rating

What were we thinking?!?!?!? Shoulda brought him back to compete.

You can't just average five years of QB ratings to get the overall QB rating for the period. You averaged in two years he barely played and weighted them equal to years he started almost the whole time and had 104 and 94 QB ratings. PS - Staubach was 23-5 in that time period.

HOU-TEX
01-14-2010, 03:25 PM
I kicked barefoot as well. Tony Franklin was my hero. Anywho, I tried kicking a ball last year and I hurt my hip, groin, knee and I also bruised my foot. WTF?? Sucks getting old.

You should've hacked the toes off on your kicking foot and gone Pro.

TD
01-14-2010, 03:41 PM
Just on a lark, I looked at Roger Staubach's and John Elway's first 5 years to compare them to David Carr's 5 with the Texans...
Staubach - 66.4 QB rating
Elway - 72.86 QB rating
Carr - 75.02 QB rating

What were we thinking?!?!?!? Shoulda brought him back to compete.

Not only is your logic flawed as pointed out, all I meant was that you can't judge a trend off a single year.

Forget all this wonderful 20/20 hindsight you now enjoy. After the 1990 season Anderson was a 77% career FG kicker coming off 69%, 72%, and 78% the previous three years (he was bad getting consistently worse). By what I see here, every one of you would have cut him at the end of 1990 season at the latest.

BUT....New Orleans brought him in to TC instead....and the rest is history. There was an argument for cutting Brown during the season....but when the Jets beat Cincinnati that argument evaporated. The decision needs to be made in August when we are sure we have a better option. Just because he may be low average, doesn't mean there is a better option. If it did, there wouldn't be any bad kickers in the league.

GP
01-14-2010, 03:46 PM
I'd buy that if a good-sized portion of these were bad/high snap situations...they clearly weren't.

Actually, I remember there being a lot of bad snaps (mostly high snaps) early in the season. I remember specifically mentioning it on here during that time, too.

Look, the guy is just done here.

It happens.

Kickers are weird. Move them across the country to a new team, and they start hitting everything they kick at.

Weird.

scourge
01-14-2010, 03:59 PM
You can't just average five years of QB ratings to get the overall QB rating for the period. You averaged in two years he barely played and weighted them equal to years he started almost the whole time and had 104 and 94 QB ratings. PS - Staubach was 23-5 in that time period.

Fair enough. Strike Staubach, but look at Elway.

Or even instead check out Elway vs. Carr completion % for those 5 years, since we are basically trying to justify Kris' completion %.

Elway
47.5
56.3
54
55.6
54.6
AVG% of 53.6

Carr
52.5
56.6
61.2
60.5
68.3
AVG% of 59.8

Goldensilence
01-14-2010, 04:00 PM
You can't just average five years of QB ratings to get the overall QB rating for the period. You averaged in two years he barely played and weighted them equal to years he started almost the whole time and had 104 and 94 QB ratings. PS - Staubach was 23-5 in that time period.

I would probably compare Brown to Jon Kitna. Might have a few upticks in his career, but overall an average QB at best.

scourge
01-14-2010, 04:08 PM
Not only is your logic flawed as pointed out, all I meant was that you can't judge a trend off a single year.

Forget all this wonderful 20/20 hindsight you now enjoy. After the 1990 season Anderson was a 77% career FG kicker coming off 69%, 72%, and 78% the previous three years (he was bad getting consistently worse). By what I see here, every one of you would have cut him at the end of 1990 season at the latest.

BUT....New Orleans brought him in to TC instead....and the rest is history. There was an argument for cutting Brown during the season....but when the Jets beat Cincinnati that argument evaporated. The decision needs to be made in August when we are sure we have a better option. Just because he may be low average, doesn't mean there is a better option. If it did, there wouldn't be any bad kickers in the league.

No reason to disagree with me, I am trying to show other comparisons that could also help your case. We as fans seem to have been too hard on a previous QB, just like we apparently are now with Brown. If we wait long enough, we are bound to strike gold by waiting for a career subpar player to become great.

We naysayers just need to calm down and step away from the "jump to conclusions mat" about Kris Brown's suckage...

/sarcasm

Double Barrel
01-14-2010, 04:27 PM
Just another of my isms that I use when somebody seems offended by something silly. Perhaps...a simple "grow up" would be better. :)

This is rich, man. Telling me to grow up when I call you out for making gay references because people don't like our kicker?

ooooooh-kay :ok: lolzzzzzz

It has nothing to do with being offended, though. :)

I wouldn't say zero. I see at least two points of merit to dumping him now. First, it sends a message that performance is key, regardless of your contract status. You think players in the locker room aren't waiting for that hammer to fall? They know KB cost them chances.

Second, there's nothing you learn about KB in camp that you don't already know. You either confirm that he's lost it completely, or he makes the few kicks he gets chances at, in which case he still hasn't proven how he'll perform under pressure.

The one thing you do have to refer to, that is incontrovertible fact, is his 10+ year track record. Nothing in that track record suggests you can't do better.

This is pretty much how I feel. If they want to bring him back, whatever, it's their call. But if I had a say, dude would have been cut on January 4. Send a message that we cannot tolerate failure, especially from a player with a singular purpose. Keeping him just appears to reward mediocrity and failure, but that's pretty much what we fans do when we buy season tickets every year. ;)

Texan_Bill
01-14-2010, 04:30 PM
You should've hacked the toes off on your kicking foot and gone Pro.

I would've looked like Tom Dempsey. I don't think the chicks would dig that too much. :cool:

HOU-TEX
01-14-2010, 04:33 PM
I would've looked like Tom Dempsey. I don't think the chicks would dig that too much. :cool:

:thinking: You might be surprised.

The Pencil Neck
01-14-2010, 04:34 PM
Just on a lark, I looked at Roger Staubach's and John Elway's first 5 years to compare them to David Carr's 5 with the Texans...
Staubach - 66.4 QB rating
Elway - 72.86 QB rating
Carr - 75.02 QB rating

What were we thinking?!?!?!? Shoulda brought him back to compete.

I know you're just joking about it but...

Offenses were very different in these periods. As offensive schemes have improved over the years, the QB ratings have gone up as well. There was a time when people were blown away having a year QB rating in the 90's. But now you've got to get it into the 100's.

In 2000, there were 2 guys in the 100's and 5 more in the 90's. This year, there were 5 guys in the 100's and 5 more in the 90's. In 1980 before Bill Walsh's renovation of the passing game, there were 2 guys in the 90's.

It's a different game.

TD
01-14-2010, 04:38 PM
phuk it

Vinny
01-14-2010, 05:09 PM
Fair enough. Strike Staubach, but look at Elway.

Or even instead check out Elway vs. Carr completion % for those 5 years, since we are basically trying to justify Kris' completion %.

Elway
47.5
56.3
54
55.6
54.6
AVG% of 53.6

Carr
52.5
56.6
61.2
60.5
68.3
AVG% of 59.8

If you watch a game you won't see Elway throwing mostly hitch passes. Also, you can't compare back to Stauback. Back then there was no five yard chuck rule and WR's were pushed around all over the field. Offensive hand placement rules were different then as well as no protection for the QB as you see today. Totally different dynamics.

infantrycak
01-14-2010, 08:20 PM
I would've looked like Tom Dempsey. I don't think the chicks would dig that too much. :cool:

Well I guess that dispels the rumors of the infamous TB nub job.

silvrhand
01-15-2010, 09:57 AM
This thread is full of "fail"

If you can't make the big kicks I don't care if you kick 90% of your field goals, if you miss the important ones you gotta go. It's called performing under pressure and Kris Brown has failed a couple times not just with the Texans on pressure kicks. He's gotta go.

:shots: