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cland
01-12-2010, 01:17 PM
Alex Gibbs is heading to Seattle to coach Pete Carroll's offensive line... Glad we're adding Dennison as the OC, as he's coached and replaced Gibbs as OL coach at Denver.

I'm sorry to say that Alex Gibbs record of top 10 rushing teams never came to fruition in Houston.

Errant Hothy
01-12-2010, 01:17 PM
per McClain's chat:
http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/

12:11 John McClain: Check this out: Alex Gibbs is going to Seattle to be part of Pete Carroll's first staff. Good for Gibbs. And Carroll.

So we now need an OC, a QB coach and an O-line coach, sounds like fun.

DexmanC
01-12-2010, 01:18 PM
per McClain's chat:
http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/



So we now need an OC, a QB coach and an O-line coach, sounds like fun.

The pickings for Lame Duck Kubiak just get slimmer.

JB
01-12-2010, 01:18 PM
per McClain's chat:
http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/



So we now need an OC, a QB coach and an O-line coach, sounds like fun.

We do not really need a OL coach... we still have Benton & Matthews

cland
01-12-2010, 01:18 PM
Gotcha by a second... :)

JWarren14
01-12-2010, 01:19 PM
Damn, on the heels of our best season, and heading into the projected toughest schedule in the league next year.

I hope we fill these positions early so everyone is on the same page heading into the off-season schedule.

Hardcore Texan
01-12-2010, 01:19 PM
I thought Gibbs was only going to coach a couple of years max and the only reason he didn't stay retired was because Kubiak lured him back.

DexmanC
01-12-2010, 01:22 PM
I thought Gibbs was only going to coach a couple of years max and the only reason he didn't stay retired was because Kubiak lured him back.

I gotta give Texans' Marketing props on that one. I bought it, too.

El Tejano
01-12-2010, 01:28 PM
I thought Gibbs was only going to coach a couple of years max and the only reason he didn't stay retired was because Kubiak lured him back.

Money talks and I believe you know the rest.

Gibbs did wonders for us this year?

Brisco_County
01-12-2010, 01:33 PM
The first questions going through my head:

Will we stay with zone blocking?
What kind of RB will we draft?
What kind of O-lineman will we draft?
Was Gibbs looking to get out because of the quality of our O-linemen?
Is this an indicator of Kubiak's job security?

Vinny
01-12-2010, 01:34 PM
I thought Gibbs was only going to coach a couple of years max and the only reason he didn't stay retired was because Kubiak lured him back.
lol nobody circles the wagons...

OzzO
01-12-2010, 01:39 PM
Wow - that one came outta left field. Quite a few on here were predicting Gibbs to Washington. Meh - as far as hiring an equal amount of assistant / postion coaches - don't we already have a coach per player? What's combining a coach position or two?

dalemurphy
01-12-2010, 01:40 PM
I'm thrilled! thanks, but SEE YA!

Here are some thoughts about this:

1. Barrett suggested that perhaps Dennison said I'd love to work here but not as long as that ********* Gibbs is here.

2. He's going to Seattle. Since he's not going to Washington, retiring, or going to a team with a great Oline and RB... it probably indicates some differences with the direction of this team. I expect to see a little more variation in our running scheme next year.

Hervoyel
01-12-2010, 01:43 PM
I'm kind of relieved but I now wonder and worry about our offensive line situ.

Gibbs was here two years and had a part in the "development" of such perennial greats as Casey Studdard, Mike Brisiel, and Antoine Caldwell. He was the guy who supposedly wanted Duane Brown and while I don't know if he was involved in going to get Myers he arrived here at about the same time and has coached him ever since Myers got here.

What's the real common thread with all those guys? They're all young and Alex Gibbs has had a lot to do with them. What's the problem here? You would think that if Gibbs desired to continue coaching he'd want to turn these guys, "his guys" into the running monster-machine he loves so much. Instead he's cutting out of town to go to Seattle? To work for Pete Carroll? Are you kidding me?

I feel like this is either a really good sign or a really bad one and I'm not accustomed to seeing a lot of good signs around the general area of my Houston Texans.

I'd very much like to believe that Gibbs is pulling a "My work here is done." move instead of a "Time to get while the getting is good" move. Shanahan heading to Washington (yes I know his dad is coaching there) so quick and now Gibbs going to Seattle smacks of rats fleeing a sinking ship. It may not be that and it's most likely not that but it sure looks like it. Next Rhodes will retire and kick back, David Gibbs will get out of his deal to go coach with his daddy in Seattle (and we'll let him because we're such good guys) and then they'll turn around and sign Pollard away from us.

I got a sick feeling about this for some reason.

BigBull17
01-12-2010, 01:44 PM
per McClain's chat:
http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/



So we now need an OC, a QB coach and an O-line coach, sounds like fun.

Good move for Pete Carrol. Nice, experienced coach for a fairly inexperienced NFL head coach.

b0ng
01-12-2010, 01:48 PM
Okay so Benton has been the O-line coach since August 2007, what are the thoughts on the job he has done so far? Sacks have gone down, but the running game is still. . . uh, anemic?

I don't think Bruce Matthews has much of an impact on how our line performs.

Good move for Pete Carrol. Nice, experienced coach for a fairly inexperienced NFL head coach.

You know Carrol has coached in some capacity in the NFL for 16 years right?

Vinny
01-12-2010, 01:50 PM
I'm kind of relieved but I now wonder and worry about our offensive line situ.

Gibbs was here two years and had a part in the "development" of such perennial greats as Casey Studdard, Mike Brisiel, and Antoine Caldwell. He was the guy who supposedly wanted Duane Brown and while I don't know if he was involved in going to get Myers he arrived here at about the same time and has coached him ever since Myers got here.

What's the real common thread with all those guys? They're all young and Alex Gibbs has had a lot to do with them. What's the problem here? You would think that if Gibbs desired to continue coaching he'd want to turn these guys, "his guys" into the running monster-machine he loves so much. Instead he's cutting out of town to go to Seattle? To work for Pete Carroll? Are you kidding me?

I feel like this is either a really good sign or a really bad one and I'm not accustomed to seeing a lot of good signs around the general area of my Houston Texans.

I'd very much like to believe that Gibbs is pulling a "My work here is done." move instead of a "Time to get while the getting is good" move. Shanahan heading to Washington (yes I know his dad is coaching there) so quick and now Gibbs going to Seattle smacks of rats fleeing a sinking ship. It may not be that and it's most likely not that but it sure looks like it. Next Rhodes will retire and kick back, David Gibbs will get out of his deal to go coach with his daddy in Seattle (and we'll let him because we're such good guys) and then they'll turn around and sign Pollard away from us.

I got a sick feeling about this for some reason.
Perhaps you would bolt too if the best lineman your team could come up with in 3 years was Duane Brown. Myers, Casey Studdard and Mike Brisiel? How do you make make a gourmet meal out of ground turkey meat?

houstonspartan
01-12-2010, 01:50 PM
I'm kind of relieved but I now wonder and worry about our offensive line situ.

Gibbs was here two years and had a part in the "development" of such perennial greats as Casey Studdard, Mike Brisiel, and Antoine Caldwell. He was the guy who supposedly wanted Duane Brown and while I don't know if he was involved in going to get Myers he arrived here at about the same time and has coached him ever since Myers got here.

What's the real common thread with all those guys? They're all young and Alex Gibbs has had a lot to do with them. What's the problem here? You would think that if Gibbs desired to continue coaching he'd want to turn these guys, "his guys" into the running monster-machine he loves so much. Instead he's cutting out of town to go to Seattle? To work for Pete Carroll? Are you kidding me?

I feel like this is either a really good sign or a really bad one and I'm not accustomed to seeing a lot of good signs around the general area of my Houston Texans.

I'd very much like to believe that Gibbs is pulling a "My work here is done." move instead of a "Time to get while the getting is good" move. Shanahan heading to Washington (yes I know his dad is coaching there) so quick and now Gibbs going to Seattle smacks of rats fleeing a sinking ship. It may not be that and it's most likely not that but it sure looks like it. Next Rhodes will retire and kick back, David Gibbs will get out of his deal to go coach with his daddy in Seattle (and we'll let him because we're such good guys) and then they'll turn around and sign Pollard away from us.

I got a sick feeling about this for some reason.

I understand what you mean. I don't really want to be a cynic about it and would prefer to just blow it off as not a big deal. But, these are the Texans we're talking about, and the Texans have not allowed us to relax about anything. EVER.

My fear is that these coaches are looking at next year and seeing what I see: 8-8 or 9-7 at best. They know that either record will mean a massive housecleaning.

I hope I'm wrong. I hope none of this means anything, and we can just move forward with planning for the Draft. I think we will be able to tell a lot after the guy from Denver makes his decision.

Jackie Chiles
01-12-2010, 01:50 PM
Can he take our 3.5 ypc on the season with him?

Seriously though, I know hes a great coach with a fantastic resume but as long as we get Dennison I don't think this moves hurts us at all. 1 less cook in the kitchen might actually help. Only one way to go as far as the running game is concerned anyway. Good luck to Gibbs in Seattle.

Runner
01-12-2010, 01:52 PM
Perhaps you would bolt too if the best lineman your team could come up with in 3 years was Duane Brown. Myers, Casey Studdard and Mike Brisiel? How do you make make a gourmet meal out of ground turkey meat?

I'd pair it with a glass half full of good wine.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sal Rosenberg
01-12-2010, 01:58 PM
This in not good.

Vinny
01-12-2010, 02:02 PM
I understand what you mean. I don't really want to be a cynic about it and would prefer to just blow it off as not a big deal. But, these are the Texans we're talking about, and the Texans have not allowed us to relax about anything. EVER.

My fear is that these coaches are looking at next year and seeing what I see: 8-8 or 9-7 at best. They know that either record will mean a massive housecleaning.

I hope I'm wrong. I hope none of this means anything, and we can just move forward with planning for the Draft. I think we will be able to tell a lot after the guy from Denver makes his decision.Lucky make a great case on why you don't go into a season with a lame duck coach. One reason it isn't a good thing is that you may lose staff and find it hard to attract staff that is anyone but "a buddy".

Thorn
01-12-2010, 02:03 PM
Alex Gibbs the OL guru never got a running game going here except for Slaton's surprise. Maybe it's good he's gone. Maybe it's good we get some new faces in here. Isn't that what we were talking about anyway when some of us wanted Kubiac gone?

No need to panic. We won't really know anything until after we've seen them play a few pre-season games and even then maybe not so much. This could be a really good thing for us.

Second Honeymoon
01-12-2010, 02:07 PM
See ya Gibbs, and don't let the door hit you in your fat old unprodutive and cantankerous ass.

Why is this a big deal? Why the tears? In fact, I think its a great move for the Texans. Gibbs has done nothing for us since he got here except bring us further into the ZBS twilight zone. Now we may get a guy that is more flexible in scheme/talent and less of a diva/prima donna personality wise.

What did Gibbs' ZBS scheme reap for us this year? next to last in rushing? thanks but no thanks. Oh and maybe this finally means the end for the worst Center in the NFL, Chris Myers. Maybe we can finally get rid of this loser and get someone who can actually block and move people out of the way.

Another good thing about this is its a good sign when you have members of your coaching staff signed away by other teams. It's not productive for your team per se, but it does show that things are looked at positively from vantage points around the league.

houstonspartan
01-12-2010, 02:07 PM
Lucky make a great case on why you don't go into a season with a lame duck coach. One reason it isn't a good thing is that you may lose staff and find it hard to attract staff that is anyone but "a buddy".

Yeah, but, I'm also not a fan of giving Kubiak an extension right now. He hasn't earned it. Yes, I get the argument that we could give him an extension and fire him anyway if we tank next year, but, I think any assistant coach could see through that.

Even if we gave Kubiak a five year extension, he would STILL be on the hot seat next year, and could STILL get canned.

Everyone in the NFL - EVERYONE - knows that Kubiak has underperformed. It is not a secret.

At the end of the day, extension or not, Kubiak has one year to get it right.
That's his fault.

disaacks3
01-12-2010, 02:14 PM
per McClain's chat:
http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/

So we now need an OC, a QB coach and an O-line coach, sounds like fun. Yep, the pre-built excuses for NOT making the playoffs AGAIN next year just gets longer. *SIGH* :rake:

Vinny
01-12-2010, 02:16 PM
Alex Gibbs the OL guru never got a running game going here except for Slaton's surprise. Maybe it's good he's gone. Maybe it's good we get some new faces in here. Isn't that what we were talking about anyway when some of us wanted Kubiac gone?

No need to panic. We won't really know anything until after we've seen them play a few pre-season games and even then maybe not so much. This could be a really good thing for us.how good a job could this be for an OL coach? They don't like drafting OL early and don't like drafting RB's early. How much fun could that be?

Vinny
01-12-2010, 02:18 PM
Yep, the pre-built excuses for NOT making the playoffs AGAIN next year just gets longer. *SIGH* :rake:
That's why I am not happy with this season and our missed opportunity. They all stand alone. Hell, next year Cushing and Mario could both get knee injuries. For some reason our fans think that the playoffs are some long awaited journey and you stay there a while when you get there.

Thorn
01-12-2010, 02:18 PM
how good a job could this be for an OL coach? They don't like drafting OL early and don't like drafting RB's early. How much fun could that be?

Gibbs and Lil Shanny are gone now, maybe that will change with a new OC. How much of that do we really know was Kubiac?

Vinny
01-12-2010, 02:19 PM
Gibbs and Lil Shanny are gone now, maybe that will change with a new OC. How much of that do we really know was Kubiac?
well, all of it...he's in charge right?

DexmanC
01-12-2010, 02:20 PM
how good a job could this be for an OL coach? They don't like drafting OL early and don't like drafting RB's early. How much fun could that be?

Connor Barwin and Amobi Okoye have more value to this team than
Shonn Greene and Haloti Ngata. Combine that with going without
a second round pick for two seasons, and we've got a cluster*** on
both lines and our backfield. Slaton has been the ONLY *hit* at runningback
out of the ELEVEN we've had since 2006. Another problem.

Thorn
01-12-2010, 02:21 PM
well, all of it...he's in charge right?

Well, for that matter, Rick Smith is actually in charge.

I'll be honest with you, I don't know, and probably no one else does either. My point is I'm not going to worry about it, I'm just going to wait and see if the changes do us some good.

barrett
01-12-2010, 02:22 PM
Can he take our 3.5 ypc on the season with him?

Seriously though, I know hes a great coach with a fantastic resume but as long as we get Dennison I don't think this moves hurts us at all. 1 less cook in the kitchen might actually help. Only one way to go as far as the running game is concerned anyway. Good luck to Gibbs in Seattle.

This is where I'm at with it as well. IF Dennison comes then I think it is much less of an issue if at all. Personally I would have loved to have had him stick around for one more year with a lesser role once again. I think wisdom is still wisdom. Usually it helps more than it hurts. But Dennison is the key factor here and until I see that he's agreed I'm in total panic mode.

Goldensilence
01-12-2010, 02:22 PM
I know John "the walrus" McClain has some decent contacts around the NFL but, I'd like to see this verified by any more major news outlet.

Even if this does turn out to be true, I've said it before but I can't help but wonder if part of the reason he goes is the personnel he's been forced to work with. I mean let's be honest here, he was given Brisiel, Studdard, White, and Myers as his interior and he's supposed to bang out 1,000 yard rushers with that?

Besides if Dennison does accept the job that means we'd basically have 3 guys working on the line. I remember the thinking behind Sherman and Kubiak was too many cooks in the kitchen. Might be the case here regardless if they all run the same scheme.

barrett
01-12-2010, 02:22 PM
Shefter mentioned it first

houstonspartan
01-12-2010, 02:23 PM
That's why I am not happy with this season and our missed opportunity. They all stand alone. Hell, next year Cushing and Mario could both get knee injuries. For some reason our fans think that the playoffs are some long awaited journey and you stay there a while when you get there.

Co-sign.

Hervoyel
01-12-2010, 02:25 PM
Lucky make a great case on why you don't go into a season with a lame duck coach. One reason it isn't a good thing is that you may lose staff and find it hard to attract staff that is anyone but "a buddy".


Moot point with the Texans though I suspect. I doubt seriously we were going to get anyone who wasn't a buddy even if Kubiak had been given a 5 year extension. That's just how we roll.

Other minor point. How much do any of you guys wanna bet that Seattle is a running monster next season? It will "just happen" somehow like it didn't just happen here.

infantrycak
01-12-2010, 02:28 PM
how good a job could this be for an OL coach? They don't like drafting OL early and don't like drafting RB's early. How much fun could that be?

They have spent a 1st and 3 3rds on OL during a stretch they didn't have 2nds for two years. That would be 4 of their top 10 picks on OL. What exactly is your definition of not likely to draft OL early? They attempted to draft a RB in the 1st (which thankfully did not work) and used one of the other top 10 picks on a RB.

Nawzer
01-12-2010, 02:31 PM
This is what happens when your team has a little bit of success. Other teams will go after your assistant coaches. Just look at the Pats they've lost a myriad of coaches and front office people but they still keep on ticking. The key is to bring in coaches who understand what made our offense succesful and add to that.

Jackie Chiles
01-12-2010, 02:32 PM
Connor Barwin and Amobi Okoye have more value to this team than
Shonn Greene and Haloti Ngata. Combine that with going without
a second round pick for two seasons, and we've got a cluster*** on
both lines and our backfield. Slaton has been the ONLY *hit* at runningback
out of the ELEVEN we've had since 2006. Another problem.

What does Haloti Ngata have to do with anything?

Vinny
01-12-2010, 02:32 PM
Well, for that matter, Rick Smith is actually in charge.

I'll be honest with you, I don't know, and probably no one else does either. My point is I'm not going to worry about it, I'm just going to wait and see if the changes do us some good.
You think Rick Smith is in charge? Hell, I am not even sure what he does here.

Vinny
01-12-2010, 02:35 PM
They have spent a 1st and 3 3rds on OL during a stretch they didn't have 2nds for two years. That would be 4 of their top 10 picks on OL. What exactly is your definition of not likely to draft OL early? They attempted to draft a RB in the 1st (which thankfully did not work) and used one of the other top 10 picks on a RB.they FINALLY spent a 1st on a OL when Gibbs came on board and they managed to get what, the 5th best OT in the draft? They THOUGHT about drafting a RB early so that counts...right? 3rd round picks are fairly high but you always get a project of some sort.

Goldensilence
01-12-2010, 02:36 PM
You think Rick Smith is in charge? Hell, I am not even sure what he does here.

Don't cha know? He finds street DTs and gets more production from them than a first rounder.

BigBull17
01-12-2010, 02:36 PM
What does Haloti Ngata have to do with anything?

He would be a guard for us, right?

dc_txtech
01-12-2010, 02:39 PM
What does Haloti Ngata have to do with anything?

Absolutely nothing.

dalemurphy
01-12-2010, 02:40 PM
how good a job could this be for an OL coach? They don't like drafting OL early and don't like drafting RB's early. How much fun could that be?

Hmm... Duane Brown in round 1, Eric Winston early in round 3, Caldwell in round 3, Chester Pitts in round 2... Slaton in round 3.

also, the Texans attempted to trade into round 1 for D. Williams and were going to take Coffee or S.Greene in round 3 this year.

I'm not sure that your statement is accurate. By the way, Seattle has Julius Jones, Justin Forsett, and over the hill Walter Jones and a bunch of crap... not to mention a QB nearing the end of his career. Do you really think he's going to a better situation?

Vinny
01-12-2010, 02:40 PM
Pitts was pre Kubiak pards...even you Kubiak apologists should know that. See post 42 for the rest

Jackie Chiles
01-12-2010, 02:41 PM
Hmm... Duane Brown in round 1, Eric Winston early in round 3, Caldwell in round 3, Chester Pitts in round 2... Slaton in round 3.

also, the Texans attempted to trade into round 1 for D. Williams and were going to take Coffee or S.Greene in round 3 this year.

I'm not sure that your statement is accurate. By the way, Seattle has Julius Jones, Justin Forsett, and over the hill Hutchinson and a bunch of crap... not to mention a QB nearing the end of his career. Do you really think he's going to a better situation?

Hutch has been in Minny for a while.

dalemurphy
01-12-2010, 02:42 PM
they FINALLY spent a 1st on a OL when Gibbs came on board and they managed to get what, the 5th best OT in the draft? They THOUGHT about drafting a RB early so that counts...right? 3rd round picks are fairly high but you always get a project of some sort.

If you are questioning whether they "believe in taking a RB early"... then, yes, that would count.

dalemurphy
01-12-2010, 02:43 PM
Hutch has been in Minny for a while.

sorry, Walter Jones... I'm going to edit it now.

Vinny
01-12-2010, 02:43 PM
If you are questioning whether they "believe in taking a RB early"... then, yes, that would count.
we should make a forum for Kubiak apologists only. You could be a star!

dalemurphy
01-12-2010, 02:44 PM
Pitts was pre Kubiak pards...even you Kubiak apologists should know that. See post 42 for the rest

Gibbs was still allowed to coach him and playing him on the Oline... Surely you realize that.

Vinny
01-12-2010, 02:45 PM
Gibbs was still allowed to coach him and playing him on the Oline... Surely you realize that.

I don't know why I ever engage you. It's like talking to the school janitor.

dc_txtech
01-12-2010, 02:45 PM
Hmm... Duane Brown in round 1, Eric Winston early in round 3, Caldwell in round 3, Chester Pitts in round 2... Slaton in round 3.

also, the Texans attempted to trade into round 1 for D. Williams and were going to take Coffee or S.Greene in round 3 this year.

I'm not sure that your statement is accurate. By the way, Seattle has Julius Jones, Justin Forsett, and over the hill Walter Jones and a bunch of crap... not to mention a QB nearing the end of his career. Do you really think he's going to a better situation?

Charles Spencer was the 1st pick in the 3rd round kubiaks first year.

b0ng
01-12-2010, 02:45 PM
Hmm... Duane Brown in round 1, Eric Winston early in round 3, Caldwell in round 3, Chester Pitts in round 2... Slaton in round 3.

also, the Texans attempted to trade into round 1 for D. Williams and were going to take Coffee or S.Greene in round 3 this year.

I'm not sure that your statement is accurate. By the way, Seattle has Julius Jones, Justin Forsett, and over the hill Walter Jones and a bunch of crap... not to mention a QB nearing the end of his career. Do you really think he's going to a better situation?

I saw what you had in there before your edit.

dalemurphy
01-12-2010, 02:46 PM
we should make a forum for Kubiak apologists only. You could be a star!

And, we could have another forum for pessimists that aren't interested in accuracy and take little shots instead of responding to a reasonable argument.

Vinny
01-12-2010, 02:47 PM
And, we could have another forum for pessimists that aren't interested in accuracy and take little shots instead of responding to a reasonable argument.yer right about one thing...I should just put you on ignore. You don't come with reasonable arguments so I melt down I guess.

silvrhand
01-12-2010, 02:47 PM
And, we could have another forum for pessimists that aren't interested in accuracy and take little shots instead of responding to a reasonable argument.

Vinny are you going to take that, man I wouldn't take that if I was you!

:chef:

imatexan
01-12-2010, 02:48 PM
Why is all our staff leaving after our best season yet?

HoustonFrog
01-12-2010, 02:49 PM
Hmm... Duane Brown in round 1, Eric Winston early in round 3, Caldwell in round 3, Chester Pitts in round 2... Slaton in round 3.

also, the Texans attempted to trade into round 1 for D. Williams and were going to take Coffee or S.Greene in round 3 this year.

I'm not sure that your statement is accurate. By the way, Seattle has Julius Jones, Justin Forsett, and over the hill Walter Jones and a bunch of crap... not to mention a QB nearing the end of his career. Do you really think he's going to a better situation?

I honestly believe this guy will be big next year. JMO from what I saw late.

Goldensilence
01-12-2010, 02:53 PM
Hmm... Duane Brown in round 1, Eric Winston early in round 3, Caldwell in round 3, Chester Pitts in round 2... Slaton in round 3.

also, the Texans attempted to trade into round 1 for D. Williams and were going to take Coffee or S.Greene in round 3 this year.

I'm not sure that your statement is accurate. By the way, Seattle has Julius Jones, Justin Forsett, and over the hill Walter Jones and a bunch of crap... not to mention a QB nearing the end of his career. Do you really think he's going to a better situation?

Do you have anything to back to back this up besides you hope they would've looked at him in Shonn Greene?

I believe Walter Jones was injured this year or something because he's shown as not starting a game. He might be convinced to come back for one more year but, I would think Seattle would be looking to take a LT with their first pick this year.

Let's see first year HC that will probably get a few years in Seattle vs a lame duck coach going into next year. That and he'll be moving to a much more weaker division.

Vinny
01-12-2010, 02:53 PM
Vinny are you going to take that, man I wouldn't take that if I was you!

:chef:I gotta keep the pollyannas fired up somehow. If they get way too happy I gotta throw a monkey in the wrench.

barrett
01-12-2010, 02:53 PM
You think Rick Smith is in charge? Hell, I am not even sure what he does here.

This post does not reflect positively in terms of your credibility.

I don't know why I ever engage you. It's like talking to the school janitor.

This one does though! Rep!!

dalemurphy
01-12-2010, 02:53 PM
I don't know why I ever engage you. It's like talking to the school janitor.

You don't like to be disagreed with. I get that. Why do you think you can take shots dripping with sarcasm and yet if someone responds you attempt to belittle them?

you said:

"how good a job could this be for an OL coach? They don't like drafting OL early and don't like drafting RB's early. How much fun could that be?

You think Rick Smith is in charge? Hell, I am not even sure what he does here.

Pitts was pre Kubiak pards...even you Kubiak apologists should know that.

we should make a forum for Kubiak apologists only. You could be a star!"


I'm not sure I see how I responded inappropriately to these.

infantrycak
01-12-2010, 02:53 PM
What does Haloti Ngata have to do with anything?

Absolutely nothing other than Dexman cherry picking drafts. Not hard to do. Just go back and match pro-bowl lists. 31 teams are kicking themselves for passing on DeMeco too.

they FINALLY spent a 1st on a OL when Gibbs came on board and they managed to get what, the 5th best OT in the draft? They THOUGHT about drafting a RB early so that counts...right? 3rd round picks are fairly high but you always get a project of some sort.

Wait so now that was Gibbs' decision or they wouldn't have done it? Gibbs was the one with the reputation for not ever drafting OL or RBs high. Yes in terms of assertions on what they believe in an attempt to trade for a 1st round RB counts. How could it not? They've had 6 picks above the 3rd round (which I still consider a 1st day pick and significant but putting that aside) - 1 on an OT. Who you going to throw back - Ryans, Cushing, Mario? I guess you can argue they shouldn't have taken Okoye or Barwin but most of the discussion I remember at the time wasn't about OLmen when those picks were made, it was Willis or a RB. They were just 5th in the league on sacks with a QB who supposedly holds the ball too long and 2 starters down. I'm just not getting the no emphasis on OL.

Vinny
01-12-2010, 02:55 PM
Absolutely nothing other than Dexman cherry picking drafts.



Wait so now that was Gibbs' decision or they wouldn't have done it? Gibbs was the one with the reputation for not ever drafting OL or RBs high. Yes in terms of assertions on what they believe in an attempt to trade for a 1st round RB counts. How could it not? They've had 6 picks above the 3rd round (which I still consider a 1st day pick and significant but putting that aside) - 1 on an OT. Who you going to throw back - Ryans, Cushing, Mario? I guess you can argue they shouldn't have taken Okoye or Barwin but most of the discussion I remember at the time wasn't about OLmen when those picks were made, it was Willis or a RB. They were just 5th in the league on sacks with a QB who supposedly holds the ball too long and 2 starters down. I'm just not getting the no emphasis on OL.
my basic argument is that the Texans line is pretty devoid of talent/depth...as is the RB position. Kubiak is a lame duck coach who may get canned this next season. It just doesn't look like a "great job" to me if I was a OL coach.

dalemurphy
01-12-2010, 02:56 PM
Do you have anything to back to back this up besides you hope they would've looked at him in Shonn Greene?

I believe Walter Jones was injured this year or something because he's shown as not starting a game. He might be convinced to come back for one more year but, I would think Seattle would be looking to take a LT with their first pick this year.

Let's see first year HC that will probably get a few years in Seattle vs a lame duck coach going into next year. That and he'll be moving to a much more weaker division.


If one of the younger coaches would've made that move then I could see why it could be because of job security. However, we're talking about a guy that signs a one year contract every season and has to have is ego stroked in order to convince him not to retire. I think that's the difference.

And, I don't think I'm going out on a huge limb to think that an offensive coach would rather be in HOuston than Seattle for the next season or two. I guess that makes me an apologist according to Vinny the Great.

barrett
01-12-2010, 02:57 PM
Do you have anything to back to back this up besides you hope they would've looked at him in Shonn Greene?



Rick Smith said they were planning on taking him but that he got picked up a few picks ahead of us if I remember correctly.

infantrycak
01-12-2010, 02:57 PM
my basic argument is that the Texans line is pretty devoid of talent/depth...as is the RB position. Kubiak is a lame duck coach who may get canned this next season. It just doesn't look like a "great job" to me if I was a OL coach.

And I would agree with that more if we were talking about bringing a new guy in but this was about Gibbs leaving. I think that is a different dynamic. But hopefully Dennison takes the OC job and can coach along with the guys already here.

Vinny
01-12-2010, 02:58 PM
If one of the younger coaches would've made that move then I could see why it could be because of job security. However, we're talking about a guy that signs a one year contract every season and has to have is ego stroked in order to convince him not to retire. I think that's the difference.

And, I don't think I'm going out on a huge limb to think that an offensive coach would rather be in HOuston than Seattle for the next season or two. I guess that makes me an apologist according to Vinny the Great.
I'd settle for Vinny the Mediocre. If I could finally get to 9-7 THEN you can start calling me Great.

dalemurphy
01-12-2010, 02:58 PM
Rick Smith said they were planning on taking him but that he got picked up a few picks ahead of us if I remember correctly.

That is correct. I was thinking it was Kubiak though. But, after the draft, one of them said they had their eye on those two backs.

Honoring Earl 34
01-12-2010, 02:59 PM
Is Walter Jones retiring for Seattle ?

They also have Chris Spencer from Ol Miss as a G/C I think . He was a 1st rounder also ... maybe he's to big ... hmmm .

Vinny
01-12-2010, 03:01 PM
And I would agree with that more if we were talking about bringing a new guy in but this was about Gibbs leaving. I think that is a different dynamic. But hopefully Dennison takes the OC job and can coach along with the guys already here.You think Gibbs would be leaving if Kubiak had an extension and had some job security? All this spin from the Texans FO about Gibbs not wanting to coach anymore is officially crap with his move to the Seachickens.

HoustonFrog
01-12-2010, 03:01 PM
I'd settle for Vinny the Mediocre. If I could finally get to 9-7 THEN you can start calling me Great.

:spit:

Vinny
01-12-2010, 03:02 PM
Is Walter Jones retiring for Seattle ?

They also have Chris Spencer from Ol Miss as a G/C I think . He was a 1st rounder also ... maybe he's to big ... hmmm .

I think Spencer was at Guard and Max Unger was at C.

silvrhand
01-12-2010, 03:06 PM
I'd settle for Vinny the Mediocre. If I could finally get to 9-7 THEN you can start calling me Great.

Don't forget at 9-7 even though you are Vinny the Great your ass is still sitting at home not in the playoffs.. But hey you are the "the great" right?

Still can't understand why we are bringing Kubiak back on a death bed, I agree the ship is sinking and the rats are running. IMHO, it's not a good sign at all for the Texans.

Goldensilence
01-12-2010, 03:06 PM
If one of the younger coaches would've made that move then I could see why it could be because of job security. However, we're talking about a guy that signs a one year contract every season and has to have is ego stroked in order to convince him not to retire. I think that's the difference.

And, I don't think I'm going out on a huge limb to think that an offensive coach would rather be in HOuston than Seattle for the next season or two. I guess that makes me an apologist according to Vinny the Great.

At the same time supposedly Alex loves challenges. He'd get a young guard in Unger, what if the top pick is indeed a LT and he manages to convince Walter Jones to come back for one more year? That's something to work with.

So my question is if Gibbs does go to Seattle as rumored, what happens if he commits to a 2-3 year contract. What would that say about the situation here?

infantrycak
01-12-2010, 03:07 PM
You think Gibbs would be leaving if Kubiak had an extension and had some job security? All this spin from the Texans FO about Gibbs not wanting to coach anymore is officially crap with his move to the Seachickens.

I don't know. I don't know what relationship Carroll and Gibbs have. Carroll appears to have had Gibbs as his 1st choice for this to have happened so quickly. And I am not getting the rats leaving the ship melodrama. Two coaches have left, one to coach with his father. I'm just not seeing the disaster. Heck over the past few days half the folks around here wanted the ZBS gone and now many of the same are seeing the departure of the ZBS guru as the sky falling.

I missed the spin from the FO. What are you referring too?

DexmanC
01-12-2010, 03:07 PM
What does Haloti Ngata have to do with anything?

The Texans had a chance to draft him, but passed. I believe THAT was
the implication.

Honoring Earl 34
01-12-2010, 03:07 PM
I think Spencer was at Guard and Max Unger was at C.

Yep ... I just looked . They also have Rob Simms from Ohio State who was pretty highly regarded . Their interior is much better than ours and this leads me to believe that the old fellow is cherry pickin his team .

GuerillaBlack
01-12-2010, 03:07 PM
Why is all our staff leaving after our best season yet?

Because, they see the hard schedule next year and Kubiak is still our coach. No faith in Kubiak at all. If Cowher was our coach...

Honoring Earl 34
01-12-2010, 03:08 PM
The Texans had a chance to draft him, but passed. I believe THAT was
the implication.

So Ngata with the #1 pick ?

dalemurphy
01-12-2010, 03:08 PM
You think Gibbs would be leaving if Kubiak had an extension and had some job security? All this spin from the Texans FO about Gibbs not wanting to coach anymore is officially crap with his move to the Seachickens.

Why do you think he's concerned with job security when he demands to only sign one year contracts and threatens to retire every year?

I think the most likely scenario is that Dennison said he didn't want the job if that dogmatic, bitter ******* was on the staff. Perhaps not, but I feel fairly confident that there was a determination by Kubiak and company to broaden the running game more than he wanted.

If you listen to Kubiak's final press conference. He certainly didn't sound too interested in bringing back Gibbs. I'm just reading between the lines. But, I think there is something there.

All that being said, I've been hoping he would leave all season. I happen to think that he is the reason why we don't run any counter action and our running game is so stale.

dalemurphy
01-12-2010, 03:10 PM
At the same time supposedly Alex loves challenges. He'd get a young guard in Unger, what if the top pick is indeed a LT and he manages to convince Walter Jones to come back for one more year? That's something to work with.

So my question is if Gibbs does go to Seattle as rumored, what happens if he commits to a 2-3 year contract. What would that say about the situation here?

It would probably say that you are right. Perhaps he wants to work with those players and has decided to coach for a few more years. I'm at peace with that and am thrilled that he's gone.

What will it say next season when our offense improves and our running game is dramaticly improved?

HuttoKarl
01-12-2010, 03:11 PM
Don't cha know? He finds street DTs and gets more production from them than a first rounder.

To be fair....Casserly didn't set the DT bar very high with Travis Johnson. :uchicken:

Goldensilence
01-12-2010, 03:11 PM
Rick Smith said they were planning on taking him but that he got picked up a few picks ahead of us if I remember correctly.

In what I recall the guy they were targeting was Coffee, but when selected by San Fran they elected to go with Caldwell.

I think Spencer was at Guard and Max Unger was at C.

According to the depth chart you're right. He also spent some time at RG during the season as well.

Vinny
01-12-2010, 03:12 PM
Why do you think he's concerned with job security when he demands to only sign one year contracts and threatens to retire every year?

I think the most likely scenario is that Dennison said he didn't want the job if that dogmatic, bitter ******* was on the staff. Perhaps not, but I feel fairly confident that there was a determination by Kubiak and company to broaden the running game more than he wanted.

If you listen to Kubiak's final press conference. He certainly didn't sound too interested in bringing back Gibbs. I'm just reading between the lines. But, I think there is something there.

All that being said, I've been hoping he would leave all season. I happen to think that he is the reason why we don't run any counter action and our running game is so stale.too bad they don't make a Kubiak Fathead huh?

infantrycak
01-12-2010, 03:12 PM
The Texans had a chance to draft him, but passed. I believe THAT was
the implication.

Brilliant. Yup we'd be much better with him instead of Mario.

Runner
01-12-2010, 03:12 PM
Why is all our staff leaving after our best season yet?

I think this is a good question (substituting "some key staff" for "all our staff") that leads me to several others.

Shanahan: the pat answer is he left to coach for his dad, while others wonder why he would go back to being in his dad's shadow. Either:
A) he really wants to coach for dad
B) he wanted to get out while the getting is good.
Which is it?

Gibbs:
A) was he forced out because the Texans weren't satisfied with him? I hope this is the case if it is a good thing he is leaving. I'd like to see the Texans take positive action to correct some of their problems rather than just hope next year is better with the same cast.

B) If he left on his own and the Texans will benefit by luck through his action, I don't like the reactive nature of the Texans decision making.

B1) if he left on his own, is it because he thought Seattle, given better health on the o-line next year, is a good situation?

B2) did he take any job he could get because he didn't see good things happening here next year?


Answers to these questions will always be speculation unless some of the participants have bursts of honesty and openness, and I find that unsatisfying. I'd like to know. :(

drewmar74
01-12-2010, 03:12 PM
All that being said, I've been hoping he would leave all season. I happen to think that he is the reason why we don't run any counter action and our running game is so stale.


You know, at the risk of sounding like a complete *****, I just now realized that I can't recall ever seeing a guard pull any kind of counter play.

Wow.

If you have linemen that move well, like ours, couldn't they run counter action well?

houstonspartan
01-12-2010, 03:12 PM
Why do you think he's concerned with job security when he demands to only sign one year contracts and threatens to retire every year?
I think the most likely scenario is that Dennison said he didn't want the job if that dogmatic, bitter ******* was on the staff. Perhaps not, but I feel fairly confident that there was a determination by Kubiak and company to broaden the running game more than he wanted.

If you listen to Kubiak's final press conference. He certainly didn't sound too interested in bringing back Gibbs. I'm just reading between the lines. But, I think there is something there.

All that being said, I've been hoping he would leave all season. I happen to think that he is the reason why we don't run any counter action and our running game is so stale.


Bam! And there it is!

A person who demands one year contracts has no right to worry about job security.

Honoring Earl 34
01-12-2010, 03:13 PM
In what I recall the guy they were targeting was Coffee, but when selected by San Fran they elected to go with Caldwell.



According to the depth chart you're right. He also spent some time at RG during the season as well.

Pencil in that OT from USC here .

Goldensilence
01-12-2010, 03:15 PM
It would probably say that you are right. Perhaps he wants to work with those players and has decided to coach for a few more years. I'm at peace with that and am thrilled that he's gone.

What will it say next season when our offense improves and our running game is dramaticly improved?

It will likely mean that we likely invested another high pick on the OL or one finally at RB, then maybe also that Kubiak figured out he needs to keep the pedal on the gas on the offense for an entire game.

Hell maybe he'd even figure out in the RZ you supposed to get the ball to your best players not get cute and try to play call away from them.

Honoring Earl 34
01-12-2010, 03:15 PM
think this is a good question (substituting "some key staff" for "all our staff") that lead me to several others.

Shanahan: the pat answer is he left to coach for his dad, while others wonder why he would go back to being in his dad's shadow. Either:
A) he really wants to coach for dad
B) he wanted to get out while the getting is good.
Which is it?

Gibbs:
A) was he forced out because the Texans weren't satisfied with him? I hope this is the case if it is a good thing he is leaving. I'd like to see the Texans take positive action to correct some of their problems rather than just hope next year is better with the same cast.

B) If he left on his own and the Texans will benefit by luck through his action, I don't like the reactive nature of the Texans decision making.

B1) if he left on his own, is it because he thought Seattle, given better health on the o-line next year, is a good situation?

B2) did he take any job he could get because he didn't see good things happening here next year?


Answers to these questions will always be speculation unless some of the participants have bursts of honesty and openness, and I find that unsatisfying. I'd like to know. :(

Or this

C . Richard Justice hurt his feelings and he never got over it .

dc_txtech
01-12-2010, 03:16 PM
The Texans had a chance to draft him, but passed. I believe THAT was
the implication.

Wow! You're right I just looked it up. We took stupid Mario Williams instead.
We also could have drafted Tom Brady.

Fire EVERYBODY!

dalemurphy
01-12-2010, 03:17 PM
You know, at the risk of sounding like a complete *****, I just now realized that I can't recall ever seeing a guard pull any kind of counter play.

Wow.

If you have linemen that move well, like ours, couldn't they run counter action well?

BINGO!

I think the reason why he hasn't been successful here is because Schaub isn't athletic enough to threaten the edge on the bootleg. His success before has been predominately with the following QBs: Elway, Plummer, M.Vick. Also, some rules have been tightened regarding OLmen cutting. Anyway, since Schaub can't keep the defensive front honest, the DL is free to overpursue the zone stretch runs.... Jeremy Rice has written a lot about this at Chron.com/sports. You should read some of his columns.

GuerillaBlack
01-12-2010, 03:20 PM
Wow! You're right I just looked it up. We took stupid Mario Williams instead.
We also could have drafted Tom Brady.

Fire EVERYBODY!

We couldn't have drafted Tom Brady...

But point taken.

Thorn
01-12-2010, 03:20 PM
Woulda Coulda Shoulda. jesus H draft picking christ, what a bunch of crap. Which is what the draft is, a crap shoot. Don't yall think some of those folks that drafted ahead of us and passed on Cushing and left him to us would rather have him than who they took?

This happens every damn year. How are we even talking about this now after all our arguments about the Mario Williams pick?

dalemurphy
01-12-2010, 03:20 PM
too bad they don't make a Kubiak Fathead huh?

Yes... too bad! I'd love to have a Kubiak and a Rick Smith fathead displayed predominately. Love them both!

infantrycak
01-12-2010, 03:21 PM
It will likely mean that we likely invested another high pick on the OL or one finally at RB

He may be speaking out his arse but McClain said in his blog he expects the Texans to take a RB in the 1st or 2nd round this draft.

houstonspartan
01-12-2010, 03:22 PM
I think this is a good question (substituting "some key staff" for "all our staff") that leads me to several others.

Shanahan: the pat answer is he left to coach for his dad, while others wonder why he would go back to being in his dad's shadow. Either:
A) he really wants to coach for dad
B) he wanted to get out while the getting is good.
Which is it?
Gibbs:
A) was he forced out because the Texans weren't satisfied with him? I hope this is the case if it is a good thing he is leaving. I'd like to see the Texans take positive action to correct some of their problems rather than just hope next year is better with the same cast.

B) If he left on his own and the Texans will benefit by luck through his action, I don't like the reactive nature of the Texans decision making.

B1) if he left on his own, is it because he thought Seattle, given better health on the o-line next year, is a good situation?

B2) did he take any job he could get because he didn't see good things happening here next year?


Answers to these questions will always be speculation unless some of the participants have bursts of honesty and openness, and I find that unsatisfying. I'd like to know. :(

If you look at the video of Kubiak's speech after the New England game (on the main web site), everyone is happy and hooting and hollering. Except for Kyle. He was standing right behind Kubiak, and you could see his face for almost the entire video.

The look on his face told a lot. I got the sense that he was sad. He really wants to coach with his dad, but he's also excited about this up and coming team he's a major part of. Both jobs have major upsides. In DC he can work with his dad; In Houston, he was forging his own path on his own.

It's just my two cent theory based on his body language, but I think if he could, he would coach in Houston AND Washington.

GuerillaBlack
01-12-2010, 03:22 PM
Yes... too bad! I'd love to have a Kubiak and a Rick Smith fathead displayed predominately. Love them both!

I wish I could love Kubiak's mediocrity and scary-ass coaching style. "I don't want to throw it here because we could have an interception. We have 1:30 left before half and two timeouts. So what! Let's just kneel it." Maybe there still is hope that Kubiak is gone.... Or not.

Vinny
01-12-2010, 03:24 PM
Yes... too bad! I'd love to have a Kubiak and a Rick Smith fathead displayed predominately. Love them both!
and you wonder why I consider you a Kubiak apologist?

houstonspartan
01-12-2010, 03:24 PM
Woulda Coulda Shoulda. jesus H draft picking christ, what a bunch of crap. Which is what the draft is, a crap shoot. Don't yall think some of those folks that drafted ahead of us and passed on Cushing and left him to us would rather have him than who they took?

This happens every damn year. How are we even talking about this now after all our arguments about the Mario Williams pick?

Exactly!

Just the other day, I was thinking about last year's draft, and couldn't BELIEVE that other teams passed on Brian Cushing. What the hell were they thinking?

It's the draft. Stuff happens.

dc_txtech
01-12-2010, 03:27 PM
We couldn't have drafted Tom Brady...

But point taken.

Burn. :texflag:

dalemurphy
01-12-2010, 03:28 PM
and you wonder why I consider you a Kubiak apologist?

No, I get it. But, you know that my Texan fandom predated Kubiak. I can and am still critical of Kubiak at times. I was livid when the safety position didn't get addressed this off-season, for instance. But, I do believe in the guy and I also genuinely like him.

And, the reality is that I've been hoping to see Gibbs leave this off-season. Jeremy Rice's articles and my own observations have me convinced that he has been holding back the running game schematicly... Though, I'm sure he was valuable as a teacher.

dalemurphy
01-12-2010, 03:31 PM
Exactly!

Just the other day, I was thinking about last year's draft, and couldn't BELIEVE that other teams passed on Brian Cushing. What the hell were they thinking?

It's the draft. Stuff happens.


I almost expect some of these cynics to criticize the Texans for the Cushingtrade. It would look something like this:

It was a huge mistake not trading up a few spots to get Cushing last season. After all, they risked letting another team drafting Cushing ahead of them. Appparently, the Texans didn't know how good Cushing was either. Man, the Texan organization can't do anything right!

Runner
01-12-2010, 03:31 PM
If you look at the video of Kubiak's speech after the New England game (on the main web site), everyone is happy and hooting and hollering. Except for Kyle. He was standing right behind Kubiak, and you could see his face for almost the entire video.

The look on his face told a lot. I got the sense that he was sad. He really wants to coach with his dad, but he's also excited about this up and coming team he's a major part of. Both jobs have major upsides. In DC he can work with his dad; In Houston, he was forging his own path on his own.

It's just my two cent theory based on his body language, but I think if he could, he would coach in Houston AND Washington.


I've seen that same look and body language on people with a bad case of gas, but I'm no body language expert.

Jackie Chiles
01-12-2010, 03:35 PM
The Texans had a chance to draft him, but passed. I believe THAT was
the implication.

I understood perfectly the implication but you obviously missed mine. As a couple posters have pointed out Ngata was drafted the year before Amobi, might be worthwhile to look that up before throwing names out. Therefore Ngata has nothing to do with anything.

houstonspartan
01-12-2010, 03:35 PM
No, I get it. But, you know that my Texan fandom predated Kubiak. I can and am still critical of Kubiak at times. I was livid when the safety position didn't get addressed this off-season, for instance. But, I do believe in the guy and I also genuinely like him.

And, the reality is that I've been hoping to see Gibbs leave this off-season. Jeremy Rice's articles and my own observations have me convinced that he has been holding back the running game schematicly... Though, I'm sure he was valuable as a teacher.

I can one-up you on that one. I lived in Denver before I moved to Houston in 2001. I was there during the two Super Bowls.

My Kubiak fandom preceedes me even moving to Houston. I always thought the guy was the coolest guy ever. And his family is very cool, from what I hear.

But, I'm a Texans season ticket holder and fan, and, that has taken precedence. I LOVE this team and these players. The team is more than Kubiak.

I'll repeat something I've said before: This Kubiak debate comes down to his personality. It's obvious Kubes is one of the coolest, nicest guys on the planet. No one is disputing that. I still like the guy A LOT.

But I no longer want him coaching MY football team. That doesn't mean I don't like him.

nero THE zero
01-12-2010, 03:35 PM
Shanahan made it know before this season that he would like to coach with his dad if given the chance. I think it's pretty disingenuous to use it as some sort of indicator of something awry going on within.

houstonspartan
01-12-2010, 03:36 PM
I've seen that same look and body language on people with a bad case of gas, but I'm no body language expert.


LOL!

Touche.

Vinny
01-12-2010, 03:38 PM
No, I get it. But, you know that my Texan fandom predated Kubiak. I can and am still critical of Kubiak at times. I was livid when the safety position didn't get addressed this off-season, for instance. But, I do believe in the guy and I also genuinely like him.

And, the reality is that I've been hoping to see Gibbs leave this off-season. Jeremy Rice's articles and my own observations have me convinced that he has been holding back the running game schematicly... Though, I'm sure he was valuable as a teacher.Duane Brown said that Benton has taken more of a leadership role on the team this last season so why do you think Gibbs has held back the team other than the fact that he is leaving it? Did you post this opinion before today?

GuerillaBlack
01-12-2010, 03:42 PM
I almost expect some of these cynics to criticize the Texans for the Cushingtrade. It would look something like this:

It was a huge mistake not trading up a few spots to get Cushing last season. After all, they risked letting another team drafting Cushing ahead of them. Appparently, the Texans didn't know how good Cushing was either. Man, the Texan organization can't do anything right!

Wrong.

I didn't see anyone complaining that the Texans didn't move up in 2007 to draft Adrian Peterson. That's just the nature of the draft.

HuttoKarl
01-12-2010, 03:44 PM
Wrong.

I didn't see anyone complaining that the Texans didn't move up in 2007 to draft Adrian Peterson. That's just the nature of the draft.

Now that you mention it...

dalemurphy
01-12-2010, 03:49 PM
Duane Brown said that Benton has taken more of a leadership role on the team this last season so why do you think Gibbs has held back the team other than the fact that he is leaving it? Did you post this opinion before today?

Yes, I've been posting about this theory all season. I've stolen much of it from Jeremy Rice at Chron.com/sports. He's written a lot of articles about how our running game is being defended and the need for counter action in our run game.

So, my theory is that Alex Gibbs is so respected by Kubiak and Shanny jr. that he as an unhealthy amount of say in the gameplanning and gameday playcalling on run plays. My impression of the quote from Winston, I think, regarding his reduced role, was he was referring to hands-on coaching of players and not referring to his involvement in the game plan.

And yes, if my theory is true, it doesn't put Kubiak in a good light. He should be able to stand up to his assistant and make needed adjustments- regardless of whether he is a "guru" or not. Hopefully, though, that is what happened this off-season and one reason why he is gone now.

dalemurphy
01-12-2010, 03:50 PM
Wrong.

I didn't see anyone complaining that the Texans didn't move up in 2007 to draft Adrian Peterson. That's just the nature of the draft.

I have.

Vinny
01-12-2010, 03:51 PM
Yes, I've been posting about this theory all season. I've stolen much of it from Jeremy Rice at Chron.com/sports. He's written a lot of articles about how our running game is being defended and the need for counter action in our run game.

So, my theory is that Alex Gibbs is so respected by Kubiak and Shanny jr. that he as an unhealthy amount of say in the gameplanning and gameday playcalling on run plays. My impression of the quote from Winston, I think, regarding his reduced role, was he was referring to hands-on coaching of players and not referring to his involvement in the game plan.

And yes, if my theory is true, it doesn't put Kubiak in a good light. He should be able to stand up to his assistant and make needed adjustments- regardless of whether he is a "guru" or not. Hopefully, though, that is what happened this off-season and one reason why he is gone now. So if he was soooo respected why was Benton taking a "leadership role" with the OL this season? I don't buy what you are selling.

Texecutioner
01-12-2010, 03:52 PM
I don't care one way or the other about this move from Gibbs.

This is not a loss at all. Gibbs hasn't worked any magic what so ever for this running game and ZBS system. He's been a big household name for O lines, but that's about it. He didn't measure up to the hype over there, that's for sure.

Maybe a new replacement will do this team some good.

disaacks3
01-12-2010, 03:55 PM
He may be speaking out his arse but McClain said in his blog he expects the Texans to take a RB in the 1st or 2nd round this draft. Does McLame speak from any OTHER orifice?

I wish I could love Kubiak's mediocrity and scary-ass coaching style. "I don't want to throw it here because we could have an interception. We have 1:30 left before half and two timeouts. So what! Let's just kneel it." Maybe there still is hope that Kubiak is gone.... Or not. Just when I thought I had suppressed that memory...thanks!

Shanahan made it know before this season that he would like to coach with his dad if given the chance. I think it's pretty disingenuous to use it as some sort of indicator of something awry going on within. If that was the only change in staff, yes. 3+ staff personnel begins to look like a trend.

Wrong.

I didn't see anyone complaining that the Texans didn't move up in 2007 to draft Adrian Peterson. That's just the nature of the draft. I would have moved heaven & Earth to get him (and said so), but nobody was willing to deal (and Smith rarely moves UP).

dalemurphy
01-12-2010, 03:55 PM
So if he was soooo respected why was Benton taking a "leadership role" with the OL this season? I don't buy what you are selling.

My guess is that it was in preparation for his leaving. Also, I think Gibbs really gets a kick out of mentoring coaches. Again, this is just my theory. I'm not trying to convince anyone of something that I'm only guessing at. I'm just glad he's leaving and look forward to more variation and success in the run game next season.

GP
01-12-2010, 03:57 PM
The pickings for Lame Duck Kubiak just get slimmer.

LOL.

Just what I was thinking.

Like rats leaving a sinking ship.....

GP
01-12-2010, 03:59 PM
I have.

Oh heck, I was shocked.

I didn't think AP should have lasted past pick 2 or 3 at the most.

I was VERY shocked that he fell that far.

What a great, special running back. With a ton of heart and determination.

Kudos to Minnesota for seizing the day on that one.

dalemurphy
01-12-2010, 04:01 PM
LOL.

Just what I was thinking.

Like rats leaving a sinking ship.....

Gibbs was always likely to go this year.

Shannihan is leaving because the organization is letting him go. They are under no obligation to do so. Teams deny other teams permission to interview their assistants all the time. It's a simple act of generosity that Baby Shanny is being allowed to go to Washington.

And, if all goes well, Kubes will finally have his dream staff: Dennison as OC, and Bush as DC... Based on Bush's performance, perhaps we should be encouraged by the way the off-season is shaping up.

Grams
01-12-2010, 04:02 PM
I read where Gibb's contract was up. Maybe Seattle offered hm a lot more $$ than we would have, if we wanted to?

nero THE zero
01-12-2010, 04:03 PM
If that was the only change in staff, yes. 3+ staff personnel begins to look like a trend.

I guess I haven't heard about the third coach. Who left and where'd they go?

dalemurphy
01-12-2010, 04:03 PM
Oh heck, I was shocked.

I didn't think AP should have lasted past pick 2 or 3 at the most.

I was VERY shocked that he fell that far.

What a great, special running back. With a ton of heart and determination.

Kudos to Minnesota for seizing the day on that one.


I agree. A lot of people were concerned with his injury history. But, when you look at RBs that have been drafted in the top 10 this decade, he is clearly the cream of that crop and it his befuddling that he lasted until 7. That being said, the Texans had a ton of needs and had just traded away two 2nd round picks for Schaub, not to mention dropping from 8th to 10th in round one of that draft. So, there was no way they could trade up to 6 and take him.

b0ng
01-12-2010, 04:06 PM
Oh heck, I was shocked.

I didn't think AP should have lasted past pick 2 or 3 at the most.

I was VERY shocked that he fell that far.

What a great, special running back. With a ton of heart and determination.

Kudos to Minnesota for seizing the day on that one.

Injury concerns and lots of them. CJ lasted till damn near the end of the first round and people (me included) mocked the Titans for taking him when they did.

Moral of the story: The NFL Draft is a crapshoot.

Vinnie
01-12-2010, 04:08 PM
I wonder if we'll be looking for a new DB coach as well? Then again maybe he's had a gut full of coaching with his dad and will stick around.

dalemurphy
01-12-2010, 04:09 PM
Oh heck, I was shocked.

I didn't think AP should have lasted past pick 2 or 3 at the most.

I was VERY shocked that he fell that far.

What a great, special running back. With a ton of heart and determination.

Kudos to Minnesota for seizing the day on that one.

Here's something to think about though:

If the Bills didn't have such a hard-on for McCargo in 2006, we would've drafted Deangelo Williams with that pick. Then, in 2007, sitting at #10, we could've taken Patrick Willis (no Demeco)... Funny how things workout. Man, our LBs would be even better than they are now! And, our running game would look way different... And, arguably, our DTs would be better too... because Okoye wouldn't have been on our team!

Texecutioner
01-12-2010, 04:13 PM
Here's something to think about though:

If the Bills didn't have such a hard-on for McCargo in 2006, we would've drafted Deangelo Williams with that pick. Then, in 2007, sitting at #10, we could've taken Patrick Willis (no Demeco)... Funny how things workout. Man, our LBs would be even better than they are now! And, our running game would look way different... And, arguably, our DTs would be better too... because Okoye wouldn't have been on our team!

Are you trying to suggest that the Texans would have used a first round pick on a RB? That would never have happened.

infantrycak
01-12-2010, 04:14 PM
Are you trying to suggest that the Texans would have used a first round pick on a RB? That would never have happened.

Well since they offered their 2nd and 4th to make that happen you are wrong. Luckily their offer of what turned into DeMeco and OD was turned down. The Bills out bid us with 2nd and 3rd round choices to move into the 1st and take McCargo.

dalemurphy
01-12-2010, 04:16 PM
Are you trying to suggest that the Texans would have used a first round pick on a RB? That would never have happened.

They attempted to trade with the Bears... offering their 33rd pick, plus a 3rd or 4th in order to jump ahead of the Panthers and take Deangelo Williams. However, the Bills outbid for that spot... traded up and took DT McCargo! IDIOTS!... But, it's been well-documented that Kubiak went after Deangelo Williams.

beerlover
01-12-2010, 04:23 PM
Well since they offered their 2nd and 4th to make that happen you are wrong. Luckily their offer of what turned into DeMeco and OD was turned down. The Bills out bid us with 2nd and 3rd round choices to move into the 1st and take McCargo.

stop being a mod for a sec, I enjoy a good cat fight :pursefight:

Goldensilence
01-12-2010, 04:24 PM
He may be speaking out his arse but McClain said in his blog he expects the Texans to take a RB in the 1st or 2nd round this draft.

I do too. Really I think it's gotta be hitting Gary in the face (and ass for that matter) that he doesn't have much more options if he wants to run the ball consistently, other then giving up on some of his "kids" on the OL.

Yes, I've been posting about this theory all season. I've stolen much of it from Jeremy Rice at Chron.com/sports. He's written a lot of articles about how our running game is being defended and the need for counter action in our run game.

So, my theory is that Alex Gibbs is so respected by Kubiak and Shanny jr. that he as an unhealthy amount of say in the gameplanning and gameday playcalling on run plays. My impression of the quote from Winston, I think, regarding his reduced role, was he was referring to hands-on coaching of players and not referring to his involvement in the game plan.

And yes, if my theory is true, it doesn't put Kubiak in a good light. He should be able to stand up to his assistant and make needed adjustments- regardless of whether he is a "guru" or not. Hopefully, though, that is what happened this off-season and one reason why he is gone now.

I just find it a hard theory to buy. It makes it sound like Gibbs is Troy Polamalu on the Head and Shoulders commercials.

Alex: Gary run the ball up the middle, my guys can get a push and Chris Brown is a man amongst boys.

Gary: Nah Alex I think we should use Slaton's speed and get him outside the tackles.

Alex: Do you really think that Gary?

Gary: Yeah.

Alex (Cold stare) : Do you really think that Gary?

Gary: Ok third and one Chris Brown up the middle it is.

ArlingtonTexan
01-12-2010, 04:25 PM
stop being a mod for a sec, I enjoy a good cat fight :pursefight:

you must getting a kick out this entire thread

Vinny
01-12-2010, 04:26 PM
I do too. Really I think it's gotta be hitting Gary in the face (and ass for that matter) that he doesn't have much more options if he wants to run the ball consistently, other then giving up on some of his "kids" on the OL.

when you are one game over .500 for the last 50 games or so you gotta stop hoping you find a diamond in the rough. Time to stop panning for gold and go visit Jared.

dalemurphy
01-12-2010, 04:28 PM
I do too. Really I think it's gotta be hitting Gary in the face (and ass for that matter) that he doesn't have much more options if he wants to run the ball consistently, other then giving up on some of his "kids" on the OL.



I just find it a hard theory to buy. It makes it sound like Gibbs is Troy Polamalu on the Head and Shoulders commercials.

Alex: Gary run the ball up the middle, my guys can get a push and Chris Brown is a man amongst boys.

Gary: Nah Alex I think we should use Slaton's speed and get him outside the tackles.

Alex: Do you really think that Gary?

Gary: Yeah.

Alex (Cold stare) : Do you really think that Gary?

Gary: Ok third and one Chris Brown up the middle it is.


Get out of my head!!

ChampionTexan
01-12-2010, 04:31 PM
Answers to these questions will always be speculation unless some of the participants have bursts of honesty and openness, and I find that unsatisfying. I'd like to know. :(

Rep for admitting you'd like to know rather than assuming you do!

Edit: That should read "If I could rep you I could!"

badboy
01-12-2010, 04:33 PM
Everthin gonna be alright, mama. signed Tubbs from Miami Vice.

Another one ahead of me bites the dust. signed Bruce Matthews.

The change, change is gonna do you good. signed B52s.

We don't need no coach, just hit somebody! signed Pollard.

dalemurphy
01-12-2010, 04:36 PM
when you are one game over .500 for the last 50 games or so you gotta stop hoping you find a diamond in the rough. Time to stop panning for gold and go visit Jared.

I don't think this is an issue. The reason why they haven't taken a RB in an early round is luck of the draw and the fact that they had so little talent everywhere on the team.

2006:
Mario- needed a DE,
Demeco- tried to trade up for D. Williams
Winson/Spencer- definitely needed OL!

2007:
Okoye- needed a DT (well, a good one)
Schaub- needed a QB
Jac. Jones- they loved him but perhaps they could go RB here?

2008:
D. Brown- needed a LT
Schaub- took two picks to get their QB
Slaton- RB

2009:
Cushing- do i need to justify this one?
Barwin- needed a speed rusher
Caldwell- needed interior line... would've taken SGreene.


Other than the Jac. Jones pick, all of the high picks have been used to address sorely needed positions. So, I don't see the evidence that the coaching staff has some sort of stubborn arrogance about getting RBs late.

GP
01-12-2010, 04:37 PM
Injury concerns and lots of them. CJ lasted till damn near the end of the first round and people (me included) mocked the Titans for taking him when they did.

Moral of the story: The NFL Draft is a crapshoot.

I was laughed at in the draft forum for suggesting that Chris Johnson was going to be a very good running back, and that he should be a sure-fire firsyt rounder.

I want to say that I even went so far as to say he was a top 10 or top 15 pick in my estimation.

IIRC, beerlover said there was no way he was a 1st rounder. That he fit in the second round, and maybe the very end of the 1st at best.

It wouldn't have been a crap shoot if I were drafting that year. I watched him play in that bowl game in Hawaii, and it was the first time I saw him. I watched the whole game and was just jaw-on-the-floor amazed at how good his balance was, his vision, and his burst was phenomenal. He was, to me, one of the only sure-fire "GREAT" running backs that I felt wasn't getting very much attention.

I got it right on Chris Johnson, and had only one game to do it in. :cowboy1:

GP
01-12-2010, 04:40 PM
The departures are interesting.

Two guys on the offensive side of the ball are gone this year.

Calhoun exited. Sherman exited. Kyle exited. Gibbs exited.

Anybody see a pattern? Gary Kubiak runs the offense.

nero THE zero
01-12-2010, 04:45 PM
Calhoun exited. Sherman exited. Kyle exited. Gibbs exited.

Anybody see a pattern? Gary Kubiak runs the offense.
Calhoun and Sherman both left for HC jobs.

Kyle left to coach with his dad.

There's really no room for tin foil conspiracies here and it's no wonder some people get labeled as pessimists trying to spin innocuous things into such.

Good teams lose coaches to promotion. We're not yet a "good" team, but we're a good offense, so it's no wonder we lose our offensive coaches to promotions.

GP
01-12-2010, 04:53 PM
Calhoun and Sherman both left for HC jobs.

Kyle left to coach with his dad.

There's really no room for tin foil conspiracies here and it's no wonder some people get labeled as pessimists trying to spin innocuous things into such.

Good teams lose coaches to promotion. We're not yet a "good" team, but we're a good offense, so it's no wonder we lose our offensive coaches to promotions.

If we had something going on here, those guys don't leave.

Don't think for a second that they wouldn't stay for a chance at a Super Bowl title.

The Sherman and Calhoun exits don't look nearly as bad as the Shanahan and Gibbs departures do.

Two is plausible. Four? Like rats leaving a sinking ship.

They'd rather take their chances with VERY incompetent teams than stay here? Come on, think about it.

Goldensilence
01-12-2010, 04:54 PM
Calhoun and Sherman both left for HC jobs.

Kyle left to coach with his dad.

There's really no room for tin foil conspiracies here and it's no wonder some people get labeled as pessimists trying to spin innocuous things into such.

Good teams lose coaches to promotion. We're not yet a "good" team, but we're a good offense, so it's no wonder we lose our offensive coaches to promotions.

Speaking of spinning, your head must be because neither coach will leave for promotions. Just lateral moves.

GP
01-12-2010, 04:58 PM
Look, people get lured here with aspirations of doing what they were hired to do.

Then, they learn (over time) that they are never going to be free to really spread their wings.

Only the defensive coaches and assistants get a lot of leash (see: Richard Smith) and that's because Gary's head is so buried in the offense that he doesn't care to venture over to that side of town.

It's a cake walk to be a defensive coach or assistant with the Texans. But to be on the offense, working for Gary? I bet it wears on a person after awhile.

To me, it just looks like his offensive coaches are there to help with practices, then stay the heck out of the way on game day. Gary wants them to work their butts off in practice because of all that has to be done, and then he wants the reins on game day.

That's my theory, and has been for a long time now. And look at the departures, and to where they have gone. Oy!

dalemurphy
01-12-2010, 04:58 PM
If we had something going on here, those guys don't leave.

Don't think for a second that they wouldn't stay for a chance at a Super Bowl title.

The Sherman and Calhoun exits don't look nearly as bad as the Shanahan and Gibbs departures do.

Two is plausible. Four? Like rats leaving a sinking ship.

They'd rather take their chances with VERY incompetent teams than stay here? Come on, think about it.

Calhoun: promotion to head coach
Sherman: promotion to Head Coach
Alex Gibbs: always a wild card- we were hoping to get one year out of him.
Kyle Shannihan: went to coach with Dad. He's only gone because Kubiak let him go. Most teams don't let coaches leave. It has nothing to do with abandoning ship. This was an arrangement made before the season, among friends.

by the way, what ship was Sherman abandoning. An 8-8 team only 2 seasons removed from 2-14?

There are certainly legitimate concerns and criticisms that can be levied against/about Kubiak. Clearly, though, this isn't one of them.

nero THE zero
01-12-2010, 04:59 PM
Two is plausible. Four? Like rats leaving a sinking ship.

They'd rather take their chances with VERY incompetent teams than stay here? Come on, think about it.
We'll leave Calhoun and Sherman out of the discussion given that they left for the highest promotion they could get, which any assistant on any team would take.

Other than that, we've lost two coaches. One coach, who said before the season that if his dad returned to the NFL, he would love to work with him, and the other whose contract ended.

We know why Shanahan left, and we knew that he would be gone as soon as his dad made it public he was back in the market. We don't know what Gibbs' motivation is.

So, if you have a "sky is falling" theory in mind, let's hear it, because, otherwise, it merely looks like irrational panic on your part.

noxiousdog
01-12-2010, 05:05 PM
If we had something going on here, those guys don't leave.

Don't think for a second that they wouldn't stay for a chance at a Super Bowl title.

The Sherman and Calhoun exits don't look nearly as bad as the Shanahan and Gibbs departures do.

Two is plausible. Four? Like rats leaving a sinking ship.

They'd rather take their chances with VERY incompetent teams than stay here? Come on, think about it.

How many coaches has Belichick lost over the years? I think they had something going on in New England. Hell, they lost a GM!

Hervoyel
01-12-2010, 05:08 PM
Why is all our staff leaving after our best season yet?

That's the thing that pulls you in isn't it? It's probably just a little bad timing mixed with a shot of coincidence served on a side of french fried pessimism but damn if this sure doesn't feels like the same old "other shoe" falling again.

Ryan
01-12-2010, 05:10 PM
Later pal. I won't really miss you.:bravo:

GP
01-12-2010, 05:10 PM
How many coaches has Belichick lost over the years? I think they had something going on in New England. Hell, they lost a GM!

Because they ACCOMPLISHED something!!!!

You LEAVE when you hit the BIG time, or you LEAVE when you see you ain't going to hit the BIG time.

Players do this, too. Super Bowl teams lose players every year because other teams think the player had so much to do with the Super Bowl win that they, too, can cash in on the player's talents. But what's funny is that most teams are just over-spending for the Asante Samuels of the NFL.

It's actually quite puzzling as to why Andre Johnson has stayed so loyal for so long. It could be that he has a personality bent toward being loyal at all costs, as well as the recent jump in his personal stats.

But the coaches? Those two guys left for lateral moves with WORSE teams than ours.

Ya' know, sometimes 1 + 1 really is 2.

Goldensilence
01-12-2010, 05:12 PM
How many coaches has Belichick lost over the years? I think they had something going on in New England. Hell, they lost a GM!

Yep most of them have gone on to headcoaching positions in the NFL.

The Sherman and Calhoun accepted jobs as NCAA head coaches. One of them in a BCS conference.

Alex Gibbs would be accepting the same position in Seattle. Kyle is accepting the same position in D.C.. It's not like either is getting a promotion guys no matter how hard you want to spin it.

nero THE zero
01-12-2010, 05:13 PM
FWIW, I'm 99% certain that if we had been playing in Cinci on Saturday, and Mike Shanahan had taken a a job with Cleveland, we'd still be searching for a new OC.

GP
01-12-2010, 05:13 PM
I wish Brian Cushing was our head coach.

Can you imagine THAT type of focus and dedication to excellence all bundled up inside a head coach here in Houston?

Shhhhooot, man. Get outta' town! :chef:

GP
01-12-2010, 05:15 PM
FWIW, I'm 99% certain that if we had been playing in Cinci on Saturday, and Mike Shanahan had taken a a job with Cleveland, we'd still be searching for a new OC.

Not if he thought he was about to win a Super Bowl with us.

I bet he was tired of Kubiak's crap. Plain and simple.

ArlingtonTexan
01-12-2010, 05:17 PM
That's the thing that pulls you in isn't it? It's probably just a little bad timing mixed with a shot of coincidence served on a side of french fried pessimism but damn if this sure doesn't feels like the same old "other shoe" falling again.

I don't think that 2 asst is some inordinate amount to lose in an off-season. I mean we fired more than that last year. I guess for some there is a perception issue when someone leaves versus when you tell them to go, but overall there is not much "upset" to the family. I will feel even stronger about this once Dennison is hired as the OC with a strong background as an OL coach, effectively replacing both.

Goldensilence
01-12-2010, 05:20 PM
I don't think that 2 asst is some inordinate amount to lose in an off-season. I mean we fired more than that last year. I guess for some there is a perception issue when someone leaves versus when you tell them to go, but overall there is not much "upset" to the family. I will feel even stronger about this once Dennison is hired as the OC with a strong background as an OL coach, effectively replacing both.

We're still assuming it's a shoe in hire, but what if Dennison declines to go to D.C.?

Scooter
01-12-2010, 05:21 PM
stuff

seriously? our 19 year old offensive coordinator, in his second season, with "i made all of the calls after the bengals' game" has been handcuffed by gary's tyranical running of the offense. i would hate for gary to support both his mentor and proxy by fast tracking an at best quarterbacks coach to legitimacy in time for his father's return ... that bastard. his trust of alex gibbs' insistance of duane brown in the first round is nothing more than an overbearing dictator. our offensive line directly under gibbs, who had a decade of experience working with kubiak before coming to houston, failed spectacularly ... the weakest link, who was grooming matthews this year as a replacement, and stood a good chance of being let go by those higher than the head coach, goes to another job at the fault of kubiak.

sherman was an experienced head coach with no opportunities that we could tutor a long term head coach under. he didnt work (because, you know, he sucks) and took a flailing college coaching gig for a hometown discount.

i dont even remember calhoun ... damn kubiak!

ArlingtonTexan
01-12-2010, 05:24 PM
We're still assuming it's a shoe in hire, but what if Dennison declines to go to D.C.?

Unless the Broncos change their minds, he won't be given permission to interview for the lateral job.

GuerillaBlack
01-12-2010, 05:24 PM
I wish Brian Cushing was our head coach.

Can you imagine THAT type of focus and dedication to excellence all bundled up inside a head coach here in Houston?

Shhhhooot, man. Get outta' town! :chef:

Maybe we can kidnap Cowher and insert his brain into Kubiak.

And Scooter, since when was Kyle 19? Ten or so years ago?

hadaad
01-12-2010, 05:26 PM
Maybe we can kidnap Cowher and insert his brain into Kubiak.

The failure rate on that kind of procedure has to be through the roof. We should just hire Cowher. He could be our new OC.

At $10mil per season.

disaacks3
01-12-2010, 05:27 PM
We'll leave Calhoun and Sherman out of the discussion given that they left for the highest promotion they could get, which any assistant on any team would take.

Other than that, we've lost two coaches. One coach, who said before the season that if his dad returned to the NFL, he would love to work with him, and the other whose contract ended.

We know why Shanahan left, and we knew that he would be gone as soon as his dad made it public he was back in the market. We don't know what Gibbs' motivation is.

So, if you have a "sky is falling" theory in mind, let's hear it, because, otherwise, it merely looks like irrational panic on your part. Gibbs' contact "ends" every year by his design. this isn't like he signed a 3-4year deal that just NOW finished. It's always been a 1-yr at-a-time deal with Gibbs. The question is why he would leave a "coming-of-age" team for the 'Hawks?

I guess I haven't heard about the third coach. Who left and where'd they go? We've had two so far THIS off-season, but more overall during Kubes' run.

Bottom line - the Texans struggles this year have been on the O-Line and the running game. What do we lose, our OC & our OLine coach. It certainly doesn't inspire confidence.

Second Honeymoon
01-12-2010, 05:29 PM
That's why I am not happy with this season and our missed opportunity. They all stand alone. Hell, next year Cushing and Mario could both get knee injuries. For some reason our fans think that the playoffs are some long awaited journey and you stay there a while when you get there.

Yeah, totally agree, freaking hilarious, same thing with the:

"we can't go after top FAs players because of the salary cap. just look at the <<insert failure here>>" crowd.

Gibbs is gone and good riddance. Take your horrible run blocking with ya.

dalemurphy
01-12-2010, 05:32 PM
We're still assuming it's a shoe in hire, but what if Dennison declines to go to D.C.?

If Dennison turns us down then I will join you in the "WTF" camp. I think the Dennison hire has something to do with Gibbs leaving. So, if Dennison doesn't take the job, then I'll start to see a trend and become concerned.

GuerillaBlack
01-12-2010, 05:35 PM
The failure rate on that kind of procedure has to be through the roof. We should just hire Cowher. He could be our new OC.

At $10mil per season.

Well, we sure as hell aren't hiring him. McNair is stuck on Kubes.

dalemurphy
01-12-2010, 05:35 PM
Gibbs' contact "ends" every year by his design. this isn't like he signed a 3-4year deal that just NOW finished. It's always been a 1-yr at-a-time deal with Gibbs. The question is why he would leave a "coming-of-age" team for the 'Hawks?

We've had two so far THIS off-season, but more overall during Kubes' run.

Bottom line - the Texans struggles this year have been on the O-Line and the running game. What do we lose, our OC & our OLine coach. It certainly doesn't inspire confidence.

Our oline struggled, particularly in the run game, and you think it's a bad sign that the OC and the oline coach are being replaced by an OC with a strong background in OLine coaching? Not sure I get that.

Following that logic, would you have been upset if Richard Smith and John Hoke had left after the 2007 season and we replaced them with Frank Bush and David Gibbs?

dalemurphy
01-12-2010, 05:39 PM
Yeah, totally agree, freaking hilarious, same thing with the:

"we can't go after top FAs players because of the salary cap. just look at the <<insert failure here>>" crowd.

Gibbs is gone and good riddance. Take your horrible run blocking with ya.

SH... we're in mutual agreement regarding Gibbs. However, I don't agree with your position on wanting us to go after top dollar FAs. Nor do I agree with the reason why we don't. We have room to do it. Smith and company just believe that is a poor way to build a team. I happen to agree. Don't you like the signings from this last season: A. Smith, Cody, Pollard?

No More 8-8's
01-12-2010, 05:44 PM
Too tell the truth, when i first heard that Gibbs was heading to Seattle, i was really worried. Then, i realized the article was about Alex, and not David; so i feel much better now.

nero THE zero
01-12-2010, 05:49 PM
I bet he was tired of Kubiak's crap. Plain and simple.
Yea, Kubiak was such a hindrance, hiring the youngest OC in the NFL and allowing him to call the plays by the end of his first season.

Ole Miss Texan
01-12-2010, 05:49 PM
The failure rate on that kind of procedure has to be through the roof. We should just hire Cowher. He could be our new OC.

At $10mil per season.

$10 million per season huh? Sure seems a bit steep to me, especially considering you'd probably still have to pay Kubiak another $2MM on top of that.

The team and its payroll is operated through cash (or the availability to access cash). I would rather keep Kubiak at a respectable contract (that amount over 5 years!!) and use the extra $ to pay for some top FA's. With no salary cap we'd have Cowher's $10MM this year and "theoretically" $8MM each other year for some extra talent. Could you imagine adding two extra top notch guys to this team at a price of $4MM/year each!? I think that would improve the team more than switching coaches, personally.

m5kwatts
01-12-2010, 05:54 PM
If Dennison turns down the offer I want Kube's taking over the OC role. Its his ass on the line this year anyways, give him every opportunity to save it.

nero THE zero
01-12-2010, 05:57 PM
Gibbs' contact "ends" every year by his design. this isn't like he signed a 3-4year deal that just NOW finished. It's always been a 1-yr at-a-time deal with Gibbs. The question is why he would leave a "coming-of-age" team for the 'Hawks?

We've had two so far THIS off-season, but more overall during Kubes' run.

Bottom line - the Texans struggles this year have been on the O-Line and the running game. What do we lose, our OC & our OLine coach. It certainly doesn't inspire confidence.
What's your point?

All we know that Gibbs is leaving to go coach in Seattle. You're making the assumption that this decision was Gibbs' perogative and not the other way around. What do you have to base that on?

All we know is that his contract ended, and now he signed one in Seattle. Have you entertained the idea that Gary and Alex came to a mutual decision that Gibbs' work in Houston was done? Gibbs' original intention, afterall, was to only be here one year. He doubled that.

Have you entertained the idea that Gibbs is leaving because we have offered a contract to Dennison, an OL coach with a Denver pedigree?

cland
01-12-2010, 05:57 PM
Texans fans, calm it down...brothers. I was curious if Gibbs would retire after Dennison joined the team, so I wasn't very shocked at all when the news came out. Here's my points / fact correctors:

A.) Gibbs is not the OL coach, John Benton is. Gibbs was essentially the consultant for the the running game, and the developer for Kyle Shanahan.

B.) Gibbs has a magic air about him as an OL coach, and while I don't doubt he was very good, I don't think he is quite the secret sauce that he's made out to be. His reputation comes from being the first coach of the Denver ZBS. What made it so superior is that no-one else was running it at the time, so it took teams by surprise. This is much like when the 3-4, the west-coast offense, and even the running shoot all premiered. It's not necessarily that the systems are vastly superior, it's just normal teams didn't practice against them. Whoever introduces it gets the all-time props, but in this copy-cat league....it doesn't last for very long until the rest of the teams have caught up.

C.) Coaching the OL isn't exactly rocket science. Our OL coach has seen what Gibbs brings to the table, and the addition of Dennison means we'll have all the Denver ZBS knowledge to succeed.

D.) It's about talent. As Gibbs is being quoted 'All Great Coaches...had Great Players.' The 'he can do it' with lower round running backs and OLmen, doesn't really mean anything, for the most part it means that the team in question was fortunate enough to find guys.

E.) No new system will be introduced. The point of Dennison joining is that the offense will be stable.

F.) I'm a big proponent of hiring the learned student over the master. The NFL changes on a yearly basis, and sometimes guys that have 'already done it' don't adapt well enough to keep up.

GuerillaBlack
01-12-2010, 05:57 PM
$10 million per season huh? Sure seems a bit steep to me, especially considering you'd probably still have to pay Kubiak another $2MM on top of that.

The team and its payroll is operated through cash (or the availability to access cash). I would rather keep Kubiak at a respectable contract (that amount over 5 years!!) and use the extra $ to pay for some top FA's. With no salary cap we'd have Cowher's $10MM this year and "theoretically" $8MM each other year for some extra talent. Could you imagine adding two extra top notch guys to this team at a price of $4MM/year each!? I think that would improve the team more than switching coaches, personally.

We could have probably negotiated. It wasn't a set in stone $10M, but hey, if you'd rather take another lame duck year with Kubiak instead of going with a Super Bowl winning and Hall of Fame head coach, more power to you.

Tailgate
01-12-2010, 06:06 PM
Too tell the truth, when i first heard that Gibbs was heading to Seattle, i was really worried. Then, i realized the article was about Alex, and not David; so i feel much better now.

Thats the question... Is David at risk of leaving now?

sometexansfan
01-12-2010, 06:12 PM
Connor Barwin and Mario Williams have more value to this team than
Shonn Greene and Haloti Ngata. Combine that with going without
a second round pick for two seasons, and we've got a cluster*** on
both lines and our backfield. Slaton has been the ONLY *hit* at runningback
out of the ELEVEN we've had since 2006. Another problem.

Fixed it for you.

barrett
01-12-2010, 06:17 PM
I wonder if we'll be looking for a new DB coach as well? Then again maybe he's had a gut full of coaching with his dad and will stick around.
This should be a HUGE concern for everyone. It hasn't been speculated in the press and I'm not clear on his relationship with his father but based on the fact that this guy is practically in the huddle on game day I feel like he's not quite as sentimental as Shanahan was. But, it doesn't change the fact that I'm terribly nervous about that playing out...
If we had something going on here, those guys don't leave.

Don't think for a second that they wouldn't stay for a chance at a Super Bowl title.

The Sherman and Calhoun exits don't look nearly as bad as the Shanahan and Gibbs departures do.

Two is plausible. Four? Like rats leaving a sinking ship.

They'd rather take their chances with VERY incompetent teams than stay here? Come on, think about it.Sinking ship? Coaches leave for better opportunities every single season. From many teams. Not just Superbowl teams. This league is all about change and opportunity. Not For Long.

seriously? our 19 year old offensive coordinator, in his second season, with "i made all of the calls after the bengals' game" has been handcuffed by gary's tyranical running of the offense. i would hate for gary to support both his mentor and proxy by fast tracking an at best quarterbacks coach to legitimacy in time for his father's return ... that bastard. his trust of alex gibbs' insistance of duane brown in the first round is nothing more than an overbearing dictator. our offensive line directly under gibbs, who had a decade of experience working with kubiak before coming to houston, failed spectacularly ... the weakest link, who was grooming matthews this year as a replacement, and stood a good chance of being let go by those higher than the head coach, goes to another job at the fault of kubiak.

sherman was an experienced head coach with no opportunities that we could tutor a long term head coach under. he didnt work (because, you know, he sucks) and took a flailing college coaching gig for a hometown discount.

i dont even remember calhoun ... damn kubiak! Great post.

Gibbs' contact "ends" every year by his design. this isn't like he signed a 3-4year deal that just NOW finished. It's always been a 1-yr at-a-time deal with Gibbs. The question is why he would leave a "coming-of-age" team for the 'Hawks?

I don't understand why everyone keeps asking this. He told Kubiak they gave him a great offer. That should be obvious. It seems obvious to me. They offered him more money. What remains to be seen is was "more money" more than we were going to offer him or was "more money" more than no money which could have been what we were offering him. But his reasons to leave based on that quote are not likely to involve this sinking ship theory that's for sure.
What's your point?

All we know that Gibbs is leaving to go coach in Seattle. You're making the assumption that this decision was Gibbs' perogative and not the other way around. What do you have to base that on?

All we know is that his contract ended, and now he signed one in Seattle. Have you entertained the idea that Gary and Alex came to a mutual decision that Gibbs' work in Houston was done? Gibbs' original intention, afterall, was to only be here one year. He doubled that.

Have you entertained the idea that Gibbs is leaving because we have offered a contract to Dennison, an OL coach with a Denver pedigree?

Not to mention, the possibility that they could have offered him MORE MONEY.

michaelm
01-12-2010, 06:32 PM
Texans fans, calm it down...brothers. I was curious if Gibbs would retire after Dennison joined the team, so I wasn't very shocked at all when the news came out. Here's my points / fact correctors:

A.) Gibbs is not the OL coach, John Benton is. Gibbs was essentially the consultant for the the running game, and the developer for Kyle Shanahan.

B.) Gibbs has a magic air about him as an OL coach, and while I don't doubt he was very good, I don't think he is quite the secret sauce that he's made out to be. His reputation comes from being the first coach of the Denver ZBS. What made it so superior is that no-one else was running it at the time, so it took teams by surprise. This is much like when the 3-4, the west-coast offense, and even the running shoot all premiered. It's not necessarily that the systems are vastly superior, it's just normal teams didn't practice against them. Whoever introduces it gets the all-time props, but in this copy-cat league....it doesn't last for very long until the rest of the teams have caught up.

C.) Coaching the OL isn't exactly rocket science. Our OL coach has seen what Gibbs brings to the table, and the addition of Dennison means we'll have all the Denver ZBS knowledge to succeed.

D.) It's about talent. As Gibbs is being quoted 'All Great Coaches...had Great Players.' The 'he can do it' with lower round running backs and OLmen, doesn't really mean anything, for the most part it means that the team in question was fortunate enough to find guys.

E.) No new system will be introduced. The point of Dennison joining is that the offense will be stable.

F.) I'm a big proponent of hiring the learned student over the master. The NFL changes on a yearly basis, and sometimes guys that have 'already done it' don't adapt well enough to keep up.

Nice post. Agree with all points. As long as Dennison signs.

ChampionTexan
01-12-2010, 06:35 PM
I wonder if we'll be looking for a new DB coach as well? Then again maybe he's had a gut full of coaching with his dad and will stick around.

This was David Gibbs first year with the Texans, and the only year he's coached with his father since 2004, so given the fact he was willing to coach with him in the first place (knowing from his Bronco days what it was like to be on the same staff), it's doubtful this is the reason he stays. It's also kind of ironic that what appears to be the main reason we're losing Kyle is now put forth (even if it's somewhat tongue in cheek) as a reason we might keep Gibbs.

This should be a HUGE concern for everyone. It hasn't been speculated in the press and I'm not clear on his relationship with his father but based on the fact that this guy is practically in the huddle on game day I feel like he's not quite as sentimental as Shanahan was. But, it doesn't change the fact that I'm terribly nervous about that playing out...




Don't know if David was like his Dad in regard to contracts, but if he's like most of the coaching world, and not like his older and more established Father, chances are he didn't sign a one year contract when he joined the Texans last year. If (and I'm merely speculating) he does have a year or more left on that contract, the question then becomes would the Texans turn down a request to interview him for a lateral move (or even a promotion if it got structured that way)?

My guess is that David Gibbs stays on staff through at least next season.

disaacks3
01-12-2010, 06:48 PM
Our oline struggled, particularly in the run game, and you think it's a bad sign that the OC and the oline coach are being replaced by an OC with a strong background in OLine coaching? Not sure I get that.

Following that logic, would you have been upset if Richard Smith and John Hoke had left after the 2007 season and we replaced them with Frank Bush and David Gibbs? Alex Gibbs is considered the Godfather of the ZBS. Houston runs the ZBS and drafted guys to fit the ZBS. Gee, I can't imagine why it wouldn't be great to lose him. :confused: Lil Shanny I'm torn about - We didn't get to ride that horse long enough to find out what he was made of long-term.

What's your point?

All we know that Gibbs is leaving to go coach in Seattle. You're making the assumption that this decision was Gibbs' perogative and not the other way around. What do you have to base that on?

All we know is that his contract ended, and now he signed one in Seattle. Have you entertained the idea that Gary and Alex came to a mutual decision that Gibbs' work in Houston was done? Gibbs' original intention, afterall, was to only be here one year. He doubled that.

Have you entertained the idea that Gibbs is leaving because we have offered a contract to Dennison, an OL coach with a Denver pedigree? What do you have to base YOUR assertions on? Yes, I've considered the Dennison-effect as being a possible motive, but that doesn't make it any less palatable that the guy considered to be the best ZBS guy on the planet just left to go to Seattle. The latest reports are that he got a really good offer, but he originally had to be talked out of retirement to do this for us, so why is $$ the issue all of a sudden?

My point (originally) was very simple - Gibbs came out of retirement to run this show for us and has single-year renewal setup so that when he wanted to hang up his spurs again, he could do so after any season w/o any elaborate contract stuff coming up. (you originally presented it as some run-of-the-mill contract expiration, which it clearly wasn't). Now, ALL OF A SUDDEN, he's not re-retiring, he's moving somewhere else (other than to the retirement home). If you don't think that sounds even the tiniest bit funny, that's up to you.

Bronco Texan II
01-12-2010, 07:12 PM
I am suprised this hasn't been posted in here already...this should solve some questions.

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/sports/nfl/100112-gibbs-interview


Gibbs in Rare Form in Rare Interview
Updated: Tuesday, 12 Jan 2010, 3:39 PM CST
Published : Tuesday, 12 Jan 2010, 3:29 PM CST

HOUSTON - Alex Gibbs, who almost never talks to the media, confirmed on Tuesday he has left his job as assistant head coach/offense with the Houston Texans to join the staff of new head coach Pete Carroll and the Seattle Seahawks.

"I know I am going to be coaching the offensive line for Seattle," Gibbs said in an interview with FOX 26 Sports. "Other than that I don't know anything else.

"If I'm the assistant head coach fine. If I'm not, fine. I know I am going to coach the offensive line."

Gibbs, who worked with John Benton in coaching the Texans offensive line, said leaving the Houston Texans was an easy decision and the right thing to do.

"I was in John's way," Gibbs said. "I needed to get out of his way.

"John is doing a great job and I'm on to another challenge."

Gibbs coached for the Texans for two years and considered retiring from the game before choosing to go to Seattle.

Reality for Gibbs is retirement was never really an option.

"I think I'm sick," Gibbs said. "I can't do anything else. I'm helpless.

"And there are times my wife wants me out of the house."

Gibbs said going to work for Carroll is a logical next step for him.

"He and I have talked about this for a long time, but I didn't think it would happen," Gibbs said.
Gibbs said the two became close while Carroll was at USC.

"After Pete's first year at USC he was not happy with the direction of his offense," Gibbs said. "He liked what we were doing at Denver when I was a part-time coach there.

"So I helped him after his first year at USC. I helped coach the coaches at USC. We coached off of film, not the field. I didn't work with any players."

Gibbs said it was important that he detail what he did at USC, so it would be clear no NCAA rules were violated.

"USC paid me a fee and I worked for them as a consultant," Gibbs said.

While moving to Seattle was not a hard decision for Gibbs, he admits leaving Texans head coach Gary Kubiak was not easy.

"I enjoyed working with Gary," Gibbs said. "He is one of my favorite people ever.

"He is a great young head coach. The Texans are really close and I wish them nothing but the best."

Gibbs, one of the all-time great offensive line coaches, is heading into his 26th season in the NFL .

"I'm just happy for Alex," Kubiak said. "He's done a great job here."

ArlingtonTexan
01-12-2010, 07:25 PM
I am suprised this hasn't been posted in here already...this should solve some questions.

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/sports/nfl/100112-gibbs-interview

Well, that story is a lot less interesting the conspiracies that were getting cooked up in this thread. Taking this at face value unless/until something contradicts this.

Second Honeymoon
01-12-2010, 07:36 PM
SH... we're in mutual agreement regarding Gibbs. However, I don't agree with your position on wanting us to go after top dollar FAs. Nor do I agree with the reason why we don't. We have room to do it. Smith and company just believe that is a poor way to build a team. I happen to agree. Don't you like the signings from this last season: A. Smith, Cody, Pollard?

i was being sarcastic. i want us to go after top free agents too. i wanted us to sign Haynesworth something fierce. Pollard was a great signing, Cody did what we expected out of him, but Smith ended up ok but he took too long to get rolling. He wasn't much less money than Haynesworth though and at least with Big Al you get one of the best at his position.

thunderkyss
01-12-2010, 07:37 PM
2. He's going to Seattle. Since he's not going to Washington, retiring, or going to a team with a great Oline and RB... it probably indicates some differences with the direction of this team. I expect to see a little more variation in our running scheme next year.

Seattle installed the ZBS in 2009. Bringing Gibbs in tells me Carroll wants it done right.

cland
01-12-2010, 07:42 PM
Nice post. Agree with all points. As long as Dennison signs.

And there we go, Dennison just confirmed, he's in. As you see above, Gibbs just said that our current coach was ready to roll, and any advice he may need he can pull from Dennison.

I know the media doesn't like to report this...but sometimes guys can simply and respectably agree to change their roles. Look Gibbs has all the money he needs, he's simply looking for a challenge cause he just can't quit the game of football. He looked at the Texans' staff and Dennison coming in and said to himself "I'm not really needed here" and believe it or not the Texans' staff probably said "I guess, you're probably right."

Quick Hug Out, and we're on to 2010.

PS. This has no impact on David Gibbs.

ObsiWan
01-12-2010, 07:46 PM
I am suprised this hasn't been posted in here already...this should solve some questions.

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/sports/nfl/100112-gibbs-interview

Damn, you should have posted this on page one; it would have saved me from wading thru ten pages of useless conjecture and debate.
LOL!

oh, and rep your way.

nero THE zero
01-12-2010, 07:50 PM
Not to mention, the possibility that they could have offered him MORE MONEY.
Pretty much. I thought that was implied when I said that maybe it was our prerogative and not Gibbs' (re: we chose not to match the contract offer), but I probably should have been more explicit in that.

Regardless, my point is that we don't have enough information to come to any conclusions.

nero THE zero
01-12-2010, 07:54 PM
I am suprised this hasn't been posted in here already...this should solve some questions.

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/sports/nfl/100112-gibbs-interview

As expected. :)

Carr Bombed
01-12-2010, 08:13 PM
i was being sarcastic. i want us to go after top free agents too. i wanted us to sign Haynesworth something fierce, but Smith ended up ok but he took too long to get rolling. He wasn't much less money than Haynesworth though and at least with Big Al you get one of the best at his position.

:tvhorror: LOL, WHAT!?!?

Yeah, one guy signs for 5 years at 35 mil, the next guy signs for 7 years at 100 million dollars, with a NFL record $41 million in guaranteed money.....yep, that's only a little more than what we gave Smith. I mean Haynesworth only has almost 4x the amount of guaranteed dollars.

GNTLEWOLF
01-12-2010, 08:30 PM
Yep, the pre-built excuses for NOT making the playoffs AGAIN next year just gets longer. *SIGH* :rake:

You aren't kidding! I can see that scenerio in my head and it will be yet another reason why the Koolaide drinkers want to give Kubiak one more year.

Carr Bombed
01-12-2010, 08:33 PM
And what's with everybody being so paranoid around here? :tinfoil:

With this news and the news Drayton is looking to sell the Astros...well this has been a fantastic week so far.

I mean, where were all you guys bitching and moaning when we let go of Richard Smith? Because like Smith, Gibbs' ZBS has been near the bottom of the league. This was most likely a mutual agreement for him to "move on". The guy did not work out here and I'm so glad to see him go. I mean really.....it's not like we can get much worse at running the ball without him :rolleyes: So I really don't understand why everybody is getting their undies twisted over the news that he's leaving. Seriously I was afraid we were going to get stuck with Alex Gibbs, because Kubaik doesn't have the balls to fire him.....now he's gone. GREAT NEWS.

DexmanC
01-12-2010, 09:01 PM
You aren't kidding! I can see that scenerio in my head and it will be yet another reason why the Koolaide drinkers want to give Kubiak one more year.

http://i50.tinypic.com/vhdb0j.jpg

Carr Bombed
01-12-2010, 09:08 PM
http://i50.tinypic.com/vhdb0j.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ry-rTHOpgxE

dalemurphy
01-12-2010, 09:10 PM
i was being sarcastic. i want us to go after top free agents too. i wanted us to sign Haynesworth something fierce. Pollard was a great signing, Cody did what we expected out of him, but Smith ended up ok but he took too long to get rolling. He wasn't much less money than Haynesworth though and at least with Big Al you get one of the best at his position.

$40 million guaranteed versus $12 million guaranteed is "much less" in my book. By the way, we got A. Smith for 16 games last season. When is the last time the highest paid non-QB in the NFL played in all 16 games?

cuppacoffee
01-12-2010, 09:14 PM
when you are one game over .500 for the last 50 games or so you gotta stop hoping you find a diamond in the rough. Time to stop panning for gold and go visit Jared.



Especially if you want a $5 footlong.

:coffee:

Wolf
01-12-2010, 09:31 PM
this is non news to me.. we had a pretty successful offense and it is almost a given that once you have a part of your team that is good, teams will start taking parts of the staff (i.e New England)

I havent read through most of these posts, but I figure Gibbs wasn't going to be around long , when we signed him.. hell I think most were making fun with the am't of coaches the Texans have had anyway.

maybe Mathews is still in the wings or maybe he will just move up besides getting game film and such.

I expect if the defense starts getting into the top 5 on a consistent basis .. and our Linebackers are doing as well as they should, our LB coach will be gone too (holland?)

it happens

Yankee_In_TX
01-13-2010, 08:36 AM
Seattle installed the ZBS in 2009. Bringing Gibbs in tells me Carroll wants it done right.

Errr - did he do it right here? (and if so, WHY do we still have it?!?!?!)

Bronco Texan
01-13-2010, 11:59 AM
Errr - did he do it right here? (and if so, WHY do we still have it?!?!?!)

I believe last year was a sign that he was on the right track. Slaton was following the one cut rule that Gibbs tells his back to do and he raked in the yards. This year I think it was more telling of the injuries to the line and Slaton's happy feet to why it wasn't as successful. However we saw what Foster was doing at the end of the year when he was following the one cut rule. So yes I do think he was some what successful in installing it here.

Second Honeymoon
01-13-2010, 01:24 PM
:tvhorror: LOL, WHAT!?!?

Yeah, one guy signs for 5 years at 35 mil, the next guy signs for 7 years at 100 million dollars, with a NFL record $41 million in guaranteed money.....yep, that's only a little more than what we gave Smith. I mean Haynesworth only has almost 4x the amount of guaranteed dollars.

the contract isn't where the crux of the issue is. the issue is guaranteed money. your giving $40 million guaranteed to Haynesworth and didn't we give Smith $30 million guaranteed? maybe I am wrong but I thought I read that he got 30 million. With you saying he only got $35 million overall, I doubt he got 30 million of that guaranteed.

i guess i was wrong, but my point is the same. why overpay for average talent when you can overpay for unique and dominant talent? why not spend the extra 10-20 million and get someone who can actually ball.

Smith started to do better as the season went along but we need a true leader on defense to light a fire under Mario's behind. Haynesworth would be just the guy to do it.

infantrycak
01-13-2010, 01:47 PM
the contract isn't where the crux of the issue is. the issue is guaranteed money. your giving $40 million guaranteed to Haynesworth and didn't we give Smith $30 million guaranteed?

You can't just disregard the other money being paid and Smith got $12.5 mil guaranteed.

Smith started to do better as the season went along but we need a true leader on defense to light a fire under Mario's behind. Haynesworth would be just the guy to do it.

I don't think Haynesworth is any more of a leader and our D has plenty of leadership with Pollard, Smith, Cushing and Ryans.

Oh and by the way, the Redskins were worse on D this year and the Texans improved.

BigTimeTexanFan
01-13-2010, 01:48 PM
Players like Haynesworth and the contracts they demand is exactly whart the Texans need to stay away from. If there was no salary cap it's a different story. The difference in production between a player like A.Smith and Haynesworth does not equate to $65 mil (diff. in their overall salaries).

dalemurphy
01-13-2010, 01:53 PM
the contract isn't where the crux of the issue is. the issue is guaranteed money. your giving $40 million guaranteed to Haynesworth and didn't we give Smith $30 million guaranteed? maybe I am wrong but I thought I read that he got 30 million. With you saying he only got $35 million overall, I doubt he got 30 million of that guaranteed.

i guess i was wrong, but my point is the same. why overpay for average talent when you can overpay for unique and dominant talent? why not spend the extra 10-20 million and get someone who can actually ball.

Smith started to do better as the season went along but we need a true leader on defense to light a fire under Mario's behind. Haynesworth would be just the guy to do it.


Smith got $12 million guaranteed. Nowhere near $30 million.

Lucky
01-13-2010, 08:23 PM
Wow, was I late to this party....
He may be speaking out his arse but McClain said in his blog he expects the Texans to take a RB in the 1st or 2nd round this draft.
And if they don't, they will say they intended to take a RB in the 1st or 2nd.

I don't really care why Gibbs and Baby Shanny left. I certainly wasn't surprised. And I'm not all that upset. If Baby Shanny was some great offensive genius, that brilliance never materialized on the field. That looked like Gary Kubiak's offense. Which is Mike Shanahan's offense, mixed with a few dumbfounding brain freezes.

Alex Gibbs? Not what he was advertised as. Maybe Dennison, Benton, and Matthews will be more creative with the blocking schemes? Maybe it will be the SOS? Either way, Gibbs won't be missed.

What surprises me are the posters who were once Baby Shanny/Gibbs jockers, and now thrash them as if they were Richard Smith and Jon Hoke. How about a little consistancy?
That's the thing that pulls you in isn't it? It's probably just a little bad timing mixed with a shot of coincidence served on a side of french fried pessimism but damn if this sure doesn't feels like the same old "other shoe" falling again.
I've heard that the Euros dip their french fried pessimism in mayonnaise. Which is just gross.

GP
01-13-2010, 09:18 PM
What's going to be crazy is if we take some HUGE leap next season, blowing the doors off of everybody.

Will it be considered that Kyle and Alex were the dead weight and not Kubiak?

Things just got interesting again, for me at least. What I thought was going to be a status-quo off-season with no new developments, has now become intriguing.

As intriguing as it can get for a Texans fan, I suppose... :shades:

steelbtexan
01-13-2010, 09:26 PM
Get Dennison some talent to work with this offseason.

I like Gibbs and think he's a HOF coach.

He did the best he could with two 6th rds (Myers,Studdard) and a FA (White) to work with. A RB that presses the hole then cuts and goes wouldn't hurt.

PS That RB shouldn't be a fumbler either.

Goldensilence
01-13-2010, 09:34 PM
Wow, was I late to this party....

And if they don't, they will say they intended to take a RB in the 1st or 2nd.

I don't really care why Gibbs and Baby Shanny left. I certainly wasn't surprised. And I'm not all that upset. If Baby Shanny was some great offensive genius, that brilliance never materialized on the field. That looked like Gary Kubiak's offense. Which is Mike Shanahan's offense, mixed with a few dumbfounding brain freezes.

Alex Gibbs? Not what he was advertised as. Maybe Dennison, Benton, and Matthews will be more creative with the blocking schemes? Maybe it will be the SOS? Either way, Gibbs won't be missed.

What surprises me are the posters who were once Baby Shanny/Gibbs jockers, and now thrash them as if they were Richard Smith and Jon Hoke. How about a little consistancy?

I've heard that the Euros dip their french fried pessimism in mayonnaise. Which is just gross.

Considering what Alex was likely forced to work with on the interior of the line is anyone really surprised?

I mean when your guys are Studdard, White, Myers, Brisiel, Pitts (who has been praised prior to his injury but, now sounds like to many yesterdays leftovers. Very Weary-esque if you ask me.) and finally this year Caldwell to work with on the interior of the OL.

To me that's like asking Frank Lloyd Wright to make a building like the Guggenheim out of of several trailer houses. Just not going to happen.

Second Honeymoon
01-13-2010, 10:15 PM
You can't just disregard the other money being paid and Smith got $12.5 mil guaranteed.



I don't think Haynesworth is any more of a leader and our D has plenty of leadership with Pollard, Smith, Cushing and Ryans.

Oh and by the way, the Redskins were worse on D this year and the Texans improved.

would you have rather the Texans signed Smith instead of Haynesworth? I know the Skins D didn't light the world on fire, but is that Al's fault?

Haynesworth is twice the playerSmith is and it would be nice to have Big Al putting it in Bud's pooper twice a year.

redwhiteANDblue
01-13-2010, 10:24 PM
What's going to be crazy is if we take some HUGE leap next season, blowing the doors off of everybody.

Will it be considered that Kyle and Alex were the dead weight and not Kubiak?

Things just got interesting again, for me at least. What I thought was going to be a status-quo off-season with no new developments, has now become intriguing.

As intriguing as it can get for a Texans fan, I suppose... :shades:

I wonder how much anger will come across this board if we lose our first game:gun:

infantrycak
01-13-2010, 10:31 PM
would you have rather the Texans signed Smith instead of Haynesworth? I know the Skins D didn't light the world on fire, but is that Al's fault?

Haynesworth is twice the playerSmith is and it would be nice to have Big Al putting it in Bud's pooper twice a year.

If money isn't an issue then I would rather have Haynesworth. With the balance of money and performance I like the Smith signing. One of the problems is Haynesworth hasn't played a full season since his rookie year. He only played 12 games this year. $15 mil for 3/4s of a season seems like a bad exchange.

Tailgate
01-13-2010, 10:50 PM
Justice rips into Gibbs:

http://blogs.chron.com/sportsjustice/archives/2010/01/i_never_liked_a.html

I'm going out on a limb and predicting the Texans can average 3.5 yards a carry even without Alex Gibbs. Only one NFL team did worse in 2009, so it's not like not Alex Gibbs was very good at his job anyway. If the Texans run the ball successfully next season, we'll know who to blame.

So don't let the door hit you in the fanny on the way out, little man. I'm not going to miss our little weekly chats since we never had one. For some reason, he didn't find my wit and charm to be his cup of tea.

I always thought he didn't speak to the media because he was embarrassed that the Texans were such a poor running team. When he got here, we all ran out screaming it was the best hire the Texans had never made and that they'd be able to run the ball for sure.

The sad truth for poor old Alex is that the NFL has caught up with a lot of his zone-blocking scheme. He needs to invent something else pretty quickly, or people are going to start catching onto this guy.

Zone blocking worked when defensive tackles were big fat guys and linebackers didn't run like safeties. In a bigger, faster, more aggressive NFL, zone blocking may be as meaningful as a Brett Favre retirement.

I suspect Alex Gibbs will be one of those ''addition by subtraction'' guys. There's no way they'll get worse, and there's a good chance they'll get better. Besides, no one figured Alex was going to stay very long anyway. Not his style.

Vinny
01-13-2010, 10:56 PM
So don't let the door hit you in the fanny on the way out, little man. I'm not going to miss our little weekly chats since we never had one. For some reason, he didn't find my wit and charm to be his cup of tea. I guess Alex Gibbs has more in common with the average fan than I thought.

dc_txtech
01-13-2010, 11:09 PM
I guess Alex Gibbs has more in common with the average fan than I thought.

LOL, good one Vinny.

Who would have thought that Dickie would be glad to see Gibbs go. He has been bashing the guy since he was denied his first interview.

Honoring Earl 34
01-13-2010, 11:14 PM
I guess Alex Gibbs has more in common with the average fan than I thought.

I think RJ needs one of these ... not the girl either .

http://www.stempsports.com/ItemDetails.aspx?Item=320279

HOU-TEX
01-14-2010, 10:09 AM
Here are a couple quotes from Duane Brown. Winston said something similar, but I couldn't find it.

"We've still got a great staff," Brown said. "Actually, (Gibbs) was more vocal and did a lot more hands-on stuff last year. This year, he kind of stepped back and let John Benton take over and do a lot more.

"It'll definitely be noticeable without him here, but I think he was kind of prepping John for what was about to happen.

Should we really be blasting Gibbs for this past season? Hmm, he was "more hands-on" last year and we ended up #13 with 1846 and a 4.3 ave. He "stepped back" this season to allow Benton to take over and we are #30 with 1475 and a abysmal 3.5 ave.

Coincidence? Possibly

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=6015

JB
01-14-2010, 10:18 AM
Quotes from Eric Winston in email to PK...

I think Gibbs is the kind of guy that likes to build things, Winston wrote. I think he has built a young, solid offensive line here in Houston and has effectively taught his scheme to the coaches as well as the players and for him, it was time to move on. I think he is a great coach and he will make a difference in Seattle, Im sure.


I would seriously doubt any changes -- major scheme changes -- would be made, especially [with] Dennison taking the OC job, Winston said. I think Benton likes the zone runs as much as everyone else. With that being said, every coach likes to make a little adjustment here and there and it will be no different next year. Hell, you might even see us run a power play as a changeup. LOL.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/8151/post-gibbs-winston-not-expecting-big-change

nero THE zero
01-14-2010, 10:27 AM
Coincidence? Possibly

I'm curious to see if it was the injuries and instability at the RB position or the result of Gibbs being hands off and Benton getting his feet wet running the ZBS that caused the poor running attack. It's probably some of both.

It is curious that the running game seemed to pick up over the last few weeks. That might favor the latter idea.

Goldensilence
01-14-2010, 10:46 AM
Here are a couple quotes from Duane Brown. Winston said something similar, but I couldn't find it.





Should we really be blasting Gibbs for this past season? Hmm, he was "more hands-on" last year and we ended up #13 with 1846 and a 4.3 ave. He "stepped back" this season to allow Benton to take over and we are #30 with 1475 and a abysmal 3.5 ave.

Coincidence? Possibly

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=6015

Coincidence? Nope.

More like healthy Steve Slaton last year vs injury plus Chris Brown as your primary backup. The numbers this year would've been even worse had Foster not finally been allowed to step in the last two games.

HOU-TEX
01-14-2010, 10:54 AM
I'm curious to see if it was the injuries and instability at the RB position or the result of Gibbs being hands off and Benton getting his feet wet running the ZBS that caused the poor running attack. It's probably some of both.

It is curious that the running game seemed to pick up over the last few weeks. That might favor the latter idea.

I reckon it's probably a combination of things too, but we really never ran the ball very well with Pitts and Brisiel either.

Before Pitts went down we were averaging around 2.5. However, he went down in the 2nd game of the season, which is kind of a small sample.

We were averaging a little over 3 yds per game up until Brisiel went down.

blitz90
01-15-2010, 07:29 PM
Leave it to Mark Berman to get the old man on record.

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/sports/nfl/100112-gibbs-interview


Sounds like we're in good hands w/Benton.

Bronco Texan II
01-15-2010, 08:00 PM
I posted this in the Alex Gibbs to Seattle thread.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1347562&postcount=183

keyser
01-18-2010, 01:43 AM
I haven't read the whole thread, but maybe someone has mentioned this already: I wonder if we could convince Seattle to trade us draft picks (or some of their current OL - do they have anyone good?) for some of Gibbs' OL players...

I've seen some people say that the poor performance this year is due to Gibbs not having much to work with on the OL, but my impression is that he had exactly the kind of players he wanted to work with.

The Pencil Neck
01-18-2010, 02:14 AM
I haven't read the whole thread, but maybe someone has mentioned this already: I wonder if we could convince Seattle to trade us draft picks (or some of their current OL - do they have anyone good?) for some of Gibbs' OL players...

I've seen some people say that the poor performance this year is due to Gibbs not having much to work with on the OL, but my impression is that he had exactly the kind of players he wanted to work with.

And those should be exactly the types of players that Dennison wants. Dennison runs exactly the same system that Gibbs and Kubiak run. If anything, we should be looking at picking up the Denver OL because they fit more in our system than the Denver system.

The problem is that now we're going to have competition for those linemen from Washington and Seattle because Shanahan and Gibbs are probably going to implement the same system we have.