PDA

View Full Version : Payne to Test FA


TEXANS84
03-01-2005, 01:35 PM
I was surprised to see that nobody has posted this so far. From this mornings Houston Chronicle:

The free-agent market opens for business Wednesday, and while it remains to be seen if the Texans' biggest free agent will be an early buyer, he is prepared to do some window-shopping.


Discussions between the Texans and Ralph Cindrich, the agent for Seth Payne, have not produced a deal, and time is running out for the Texans' exclusive negotiating rights with the unrestricted free agent nose tackle.

The two sides have no contract talks scheduled between now and the start of the signing period, although neither has closed the door.


Packing his bags
"I think what probably will happen is he will go into free agency and make a couple of visits," Cindrich said. "He really likes playing in Houston, and he likes the people there, but at the same time, once you get into free agency, anything can happen."

Of the nine free agents the Texans lost during the past two offseasons, seven signed elsewhere by March 14.

In other words, things happen quickly once players are allowed to visit other teams. The Texans did manage to sign inside linebacker Jay Foreman and strong safety Eric Brown after the market opened in 2003.

In Payne's case, the Texans might have more time on their side. He is recovering from surgery to repair two hamstring tendons attached to his pelvis.

Payne, 30, who expects to make a full recovery, is encouraged by the fact that teammate Gary Walker suffered the same injury before the 2002 season and recovered well enough to cap the year with a trip to the Pro Bowl.

Texans coach Dom Capers always has praised Payne's determination in coming back from multiple knee surgeries in 2003 to play in all 16 games in 2004.

These aren't exactly the circumstances under which Payne hoped to enter free agency, but his camp is confident teams will be encouraged by his progress.

"He's way ahead of schedule, which anyone who knows Seth would expect," Cindrich said. "His prognosis is excellent to outstanding.

"Anytime you have anything that is less than 100 percent, it becomes an issue (in free agency), but it's safe to say anyone who has been associated with Seth in any capacity, on any team, is going to have an interest."

Giants coach Tom Coughlin, Lions defensive coordinator Dick Jauron and Browns defensive coordinator Todd Grantham have ties to Payne, and each team could use help on the defensive line.

Coughlin was Payne's head coach in Jacksonville. Jauron was one of three defensive coordinators with whom Payne worked in Jacksonville, and Grantham was the Texans' defensive line coach for the past three seasons.


Saints could be factor
League sources also said the Saints might have some interest in the eight-year veteran, whom the Texans acquired in the 2002 expansion draft.

The Texans already have $52.5 million, including guaranteed signing bonuses of just over $19 million, invested in Walker and defensive lineman Robaire Smith.

Jerry Deloach, who shared the nose tackle position with Payne during the first half of the 2004 season, is an unrestricted free agent. So is veteran reserve Corey Sears.

Junior Ioane, who has agreed to terms on a three-year contract, has experience at nose tackle.

Separately, the Texans have reached a one-year agreement with unrestricted free agent linebacker DeShon Polk at a base salary of $540,000.

OzzO
03-01-2005, 01:41 PM
well.....

link to Polk thread (http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=6860) :D

Tailgate
03-01-2005, 01:54 PM
This would probably mean alot more to me if Seth hadnt been hurt so much these past couple years.

edo783
03-01-2005, 03:16 PM
It will be interesting to see what he is worth in the marketplace. I suspect it will be in the 2 mill a year range. However, with teams switching to the 34 and needing NTs he might get a great offer.

texasguy346
03-01-2005, 03:30 PM
However, with teams switching to the 34 and needing NTs he might get a great offer.

That's the key point about this whole scenario that has me a little worried. Even last season there were several teams that were either converting/using the 3-4 or mixing it in with their base formation. Now you can add Dallas, Denver, and New Orleans all looking at changing to a 3-4. There will be plenty of interest in a 3-4 NT who's had experience and success in the 3-4. I really want to see Payne in a Texan uniform next season. If he leaves for another team it could be a long season for the Texans.

Vinny
03-01-2005, 03:44 PM
Payne hasn't done much in the last two years. If someone wants to offer him huge money then I'm fine with not resigning him. I'd rather see him leave than for us to over pay him and he give us what he has given us the last couple of years on the field. I know injuries are not his fault and he is a hard worker, but reality is he hasn't really been too productive the last two years.

SESupergenius
03-01-2005, 03:49 PM
Exactly. People can fall in love with his character but if he's not on the field then it does not good. Payne was a 4-3 tackle before switching to a NT in the 3-4, there will be plenty of guys that can do the same.

WWJD
03-01-2005, 03:52 PM
If the Texans resign him to big money it's going to be really big trouble down the road. You'll have 2 potential Gary Walkers then. Players on the downslide with big contracts.

Negative Jesus
03-01-2005, 03:55 PM
I just don't want to put too much into Payne . He is a good guy and all but the injury thing has me worried . Just let him test the market and see what hes worth and then make him an offer , just don't go throwing big money at him right away .

jacquescas
03-01-2005, 05:02 PM
Payne needs to go unless he comes in at a reduced rate. He is already on the wrong side of 30 coming off a major injury, why not look for someone younger.

infantrycak
03-01-2005, 05:32 PM
Payne hasn't done much in the last two years. If someone wants to offer him huge money then I'm fine with not resigning him. I'd rather see him leave than for us to over pay him and he give us what he has given us the last couple of years on the field. I know injuries are not his fault and he is a hard worker, but reality is he hasn't really been too productive the last two years.

Exactly. People can fall in love with his character but if he's not on the field then it does not good. Payne was a 4-3 tackle before switching to a NT in the 3-4, there will be plenty of guys that can do the same.

True, but the devil is in the detail. What amount of money is too much at this point? My guess has been he would be resigned for about $2.5 mil a year. I want to see him back but if some team wants to throw $4 mil+ a year at him then good for you Seth Payne have fun with them. BUT, while it is true 4-3 tackles can and do convert to 3-4 NT's, who specifically is available to replace him. DeLoach, Sears and Ioane all do a solid job as rotation/back-up, but there is a very noticeable drop off from Payne even last year while Payne was recovering from his knee surgeries. Kendrick Clancy has experience but he was waived by the Steelers until being brought back when Casey Hampton went down. So who FA or draft could really be expected to step in as the presumptive starter with the expectation of doing as well as or better than Payne? Draftniks please do not just list every college hopeful over 310 lbs and say they will be better.

Grid
03-01-2005, 06:08 PM
hes a good DT.. but with his injuries and his age..and our cap situation, we cant afford to pay him the big bucks.

Judging by that article.. and the comments like "Walker came back from the same injury in 2002 and went to the pro bowl".. id say it sounds like Payne thinks he is gonna be just fine and playing as well as he always has.. so he probably expects the same pay. While Casserly and Co. probably feel that he has been too inconsistent and suffered alot of injuries, and want to sign him for less so that we dont end up in another bosselli situation.

I have a feeling.. with all the teams changing a 3-4 this season.. that someone out there is going to offer Payne more than we are willing to.. and he will be leaving us.

SESupergenius
03-01-2005, 06:43 PM
There are a lot of tactics that go along with Free Agency. The agent representatives are trying like mad to sell their product, the athlete. You are going to see all kinds of hype and stuff at this time, and Payne should be no different. Payne played a lot last but didn't look as good as he did in previous years, uh when he played. I can't see us shelling out more than 3 million a year for him. A 3 year 9 Million dollar deal with an incentive based bonus is fine with me, but I'm sure that he will be asking a good chuck of the guaranteed bonus. Our options at NT are limited and I'm sure the agent is aware of that. And yes with so many teams switching to the 3-4 a NT will be in demand. I don't see any major DT's other than Williams in this free agency so I would try and resign Payne but go after either HArtwell or Bell as my big free agent acquistion.

LoNghoRn-TeXaN
03-01-2005, 06:49 PM
As of right now we have only two starting and a back-up D-linemen on the roster. I don't see us signing Payne, DeLoach or Sears. We might sign about two back-up D-linemen from FA but I don't see anyone available who might be better than Sears or DeLoach. Regarding our starting NT, I don't know if there is anyway to go other than the draft. So in the end, I think that we may very well have a worse DL than last season. But I certainly hope that I'm very wrong. Please correct me if I am!

ccdude730
03-01-2005, 09:51 PM
that kind of sounds depressing...i want our Dline to be alot better than last season.

it all starts with the Dline to free up LBs to make plays and put pressure on the QB. then that lets our DBs take a few chances and cause some turnovers.

honestly id like to see payne back but maybe find someone who he can rotate with more often, maybe a cheap vet backup or rookie to maybe learn the position and to groom - not really sure who else he can rotate more with though. but im fairly confident he can recover and be a dominant force on the line again.

just dont overpay !

LikeABoss
03-01-2005, 10:39 PM
I think the Houston front office should look into signing Kendrick Clancy as Payne's replacement idonno:

My :twocents:

texansfan88
03-01-2005, 10:40 PM
I think the houston front office should look to sign any of the remaining 12 free agents that will not be Texans in about 80 minutes...

texasguy346
03-01-2005, 10:42 PM
I think the houston front office should look to sign any of the remaining 12 free agents that will not be Texans in about 80 minutes...

If we have another midnight signing like we did with Posey I'm not going to have a restful sleep tonight.

AndreJ
03-01-2005, 10:42 PM
I think the Houston front office should look into signing Kendrick Clancy as Payne's replacement idonno:

My :twocents:

Who dat? LoL

Ranger
03-01-2005, 10:54 PM
I don't really see a big drop off at the position if we don't resign him. I think its time we go out and give somebody else the chance. I know I've heard talk about maybe Robairre moving to NT and then drafting Spears to take his spot, be there is some quality FA's at the position, Pat Williams is one of them.

AndreJ
03-01-2005, 10:59 PM
I don't really see a big drop off at the position if we don't resign him. I think its time we go out and give somebody else the chance. I know I've heard talk about maybe Robairre moving to NT and then drafting Spears to take his spot, be there is some quality FA's at the position, Pat Williams is one of them.

Pat would require a huge contract and I think he'd want to go to a better team with him getting up their in the age now. Older players want to win the big SB.

Vinny
03-02-2005, 07:51 AM
Payne is on 610am right now and he is about to head out to see the Jets and the Browns (he said that Grantham made him a better player) and will visit a few other teams (missed it). He said that he should be fine by May 1st and won't miss camp or any of the preseason. He also said that his surgery is not as bad as everyone is making it out to be. He doesn't sound like he is coming back when asked directly. He said he loves it here and there is a mutual respect but he he didn't sound too positive about a return.

keyfro
03-02-2005, 08:34 AM
well if he doesn't return i wish him the best of luck in his future team...we need to figure out whether or not we're going to sign a new NT or move walker or smith over and draft a new DE since there really isn't a strong NT in this years draft

TheOgre
03-02-2005, 10:28 AM
We have too much invested at the DE positions. I don't see us spending big bucks on Payne. He will go elsewhere. Time to get used to that idea.

nunusguy
03-02-2005, 10:48 AM
We have too much invested at the DE positions. I don't see us spending big bucks on Payne. He will go elsewhere. Time to get used to that idea.
Yup. We sealed our fate last year when we payed the big bucks to Walker (why oh why did we do that ? - worst mistake Cass has made since becoming a Houstonian. Well, either that or Hollings). Payne has now established a history of injuries in recent years and while he's not in the twilight of his carrer age wise, he can see it from where he's at as the saying goes. Givin the corner we are re retaining another veteran DL but with injury
issues - there's 31 other teams, long shot he returns cause somebody else will take a chance. But he's a class act - I hope he goes to someplace like
the Jets or Philly, gets a SB ring, and is voted to the PB for the annual Hawaii game all in the next 12 months.

JustBonee
03-02-2005, 11:20 AM
I wish him the best. He is one good team player. If he were to get back to 02 form, pre injuries, he will be missed.
:hmmm: .. trying to picture him a Brownie.

Chance_C
03-02-2005, 11:37 AM
I know that the injury is a huge issue with Seth. But it's a very scary thought, him not being here. Who are we gonna replace him with? I think he is our best option at this point, and it seems like playing with fire to me. I'm just gonna have to trust that the organization knows just what they are doing. Not questioning that at all, I just don't see alot of options for his replacement.

beerlover
03-02-2005, 11:54 AM
I'm guessing the Texans & Payne have been in negoiations up till the F/A deadline (resigned Polk LB, Faggins CB & Ioane NT). its a buisness, Seth has exceeded expectations his entire career up until the last two, so maybe its time to part ways. I'm sure he thinks he can find a bigger pay-check in the open market, unless the Texans draft a NT look for Ioane to start earning that new contract.

LikeABoss
03-02-2005, 02:25 PM
I think the Houston front office should look into signing Kendrick Clancy as Payne's replacement

My :twocents:

Who dat? LoL


http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=6093

^^This was like one of my first post here, but I did a little piece on him a while back. He's young and doesn't have that much playing experience because he was the third NT on the depth chart behind Hampton and Hoke in Pittsburgh, but he has played in the 3-4 formation and he is a UFA that should not demand too much money.

TEXANS84
03-02-2005, 04:26 PM
-- Cleveland to Host Payne --
Wed Mar 2, 2005 --from FFMastermind.com

The New Orleans Times-Picayune reports free agent DT Seth Payne (Houston) will visit the Cleveland Browns today.

-- Saints Interested in Payne --
Wed Mar 2, 2005 --from FFMastermind.com

The New Orleans Times-Picayune reports a ball-hawking free safety and veteran defensive tackle are high on the Saints free-agent wish list. The Saints have expressed interest in Houston DT Seth Payne, who played five seasons for New Orleans defensive line coach John Pease in Jacksonville from 1997 to 2001.

Jonathan
03-02-2005, 07:08 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2003271

As Houston moved closer to a deal with Bills defensive tackle Pat Williams to be their nose tackle, current Texans nose tackle Seth Payne got word of potentially losing his job and quickly signed a deal.

Payne, 30, agreed to a four-year, $16 million contract that includes a $4.5 million signing bonus. Payne battled a knee injury last year, but still started 12 games and played 53 percent of downs.

Payne played in the middle of a well-paid, three-man line that includes Robaire Smith and Gary Walker at ends.

TEXANS84
03-02-2005, 07:12 PM
Wow...I can't see ESPN from work, but if that's true....thats good news.

AndreJ
03-02-2005, 07:14 PM
Texans making a run for Pat Williams? I like that, but he'll come @ a heavy price.

Jonathan
03-02-2005, 07:16 PM
Texans making a run for Pat Williams? I like that, but he'll come @ a heavy price.

Read it again. The Texans were moving closer to Williams but managed to resign Seth Payne instead.

AndreJ
03-02-2005, 07:19 PM
Read it again. The Texans were moving closer to Williams but managed to resign Seth Payne instead.

O ok, thnx for the correction. I've just seen so many dif. things today. Ex: Seth Payne was in some other state working out a deal with another team. Thnx for the info though.

wags
03-02-2005, 07:21 PM
:whoohoo:

:whoohoo:

:whoohoo:

Never a doubt. :fib

ccdude730
03-02-2005, 07:25 PM
:whew glad we kept him

that takes care of things, whats next on the "to do" list?

nunusguy
03-02-2005, 07:27 PM
KPRC reporting we have worked out a deal with Payne.

AndreJ
03-02-2005, 07:34 PM
I think that may decrease our chances of picking up Spears in the draft. I beleive G-Funk will be given a chance to redeem his poor performance he showed last year.

I'm clueless as to who the texans will go after.

Blake
03-02-2005, 07:36 PM
I think that may decrease our chances of picking up Spears in the draft. I beleive G-Funk will be given a chance to redeem his poor performance he showed last year.

I'm clueless as to who the texans will go after.

Like you said, it only decreases our chances to get Spears. The Texans like to rotate their D-Line. So there is nothing wrong with having depth, and a rookie to learn.
:twocents:

Blake
03-02-2005, 07:39 PM
I really didnt think we would pay that much for him. I wonder what Williams will go for?

texasguy346
03-02-2005, 07:47 PM
I really didnt think we would pay that much for him. I wonder what Williams will go for?

I didn't think so either, but I'm glad we re-signed him. Anyone think that our interest in Pat Williams might have been a bluff to see how Payne would react? Probably not very likely, but still interesting.

Blake
03-02-2005, 07:49 PM
I didn't think so either, but I'm glad we re-signed him. Anyone think that our interest in Pat Williams might have been a bluff to see how Payne would react? Probably not very likely, but still interesting.

I was thinking the same thing. But I think the interest in Pat was genuine. We have to look out for #1 right?

texasguy346
03-02-2005, 07:51 PM
Yeah that's what I'm thinking too, but since it's the offseason I can't help but inject some drama into the situation even though there wasn't much of any.

TexanExile
03-02-2005, 07:58 PM
I've heard about a lot of teams wanting help on their defensive line this year, which will definitely affect the "market price." The number for Payne initially caused me to gulp, but this may be one of those things similar to the Todd Wade deal last year--at first it seems like a lot, but it ends up being close to the going rate for that talent at that position.

I really do like the guy. PLEASE, PLEASE get (and stay) healthy!!!!

nunusguy
03-02-2005, 08:05 PM
We need to remember that more and more teams are going 3-4 and Seth's
a 3-4 Nose. Still, we paid a lot for a guy that has some real downside
because of reinjury to himself (or having a third, different injury for the third straight year!). That's my concern.

Texans Pride
03-02-2005, 08:25 PM
I just don't understand why we keep paying extra for guys who aren't worth it? Walker was overpaid by a mile, and now Payne. . . I love Payne, but that just seems to much.

aj.
03-02-2005, 08:33 PM
Payne and Walker's deals are not in the same universe.

Look at it this way. Seth could suffer a career ending knee injury going to the bank tomorrow and it still won't cost as much on the cap as Gary Walker will two years from now when he becomes a cap casualty (with three years left on his deal) - if he lasts that long.

WildBlackBear32
03-02-2005, 08:33 PM
I just don't understand why we keep paying extra for guys who aren't worth it? Walker was overpaid by a mile, and now Payne. . .

Exactly how I feel... :thumbdown

Sarg01
03-02-2005, 08:34 PM
It's not the salary that kills you on old-guy contracts, it's the signing bonus, because you can cut them whenever their cap number exceeds their production. 4.5 million signing bonus for 4 years means his amortization is only 1.13 million/year. That's not bad for someone who conceivably might play the whole contract out (he's 30, not 35 or anything like that)

beerlover
03-02-2005, 08:42 PM
resigning their own free agents is exactly what Casserly said the Texans would do and true to his word they have done a nice job keeping the team intact. now if they can come through on the promise to fix the offensive line and provide David some protection :rolleyes:

infantrycak
03-02-2005, 08:55 PM
It's not the salary that kills you on old-guy contracts, it's the signing bonus, because you can cut them whenever their cap number exceeds their production. 4.5 million signing bonus for 4 years means his amortization is only 1.13 million/year. That's not bad for someone who conceivably might play the whole contract out (he's 30, not 35 or anything like that)

To reinforce sarg and aj, that is exactly right. This is a very modest signing bonus--less than Coleman got last year on a 3 year contract--and leaves the Texans free to cut Payne if his performance does not maintain a high level.

edo783
03-02-2005, 09:35 PM
resigning their own free agents is exactly what Casserly said the Texans would do and true to his word they have done a nice job keeping the team intact. now if they can come through on the promise to fix the offensive line and provide David some protection :rolleyes:

I suspect/hope they pickup one or two O-line FAs. I would LOVE to see Mike Wahle (GB) in a Texans uni. Very solid gaurd. Seems like all of the top level centers have been scarfed up all ready so replacing McKinny with an experinced one may be out the window. Don't need any tackles IMO.