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View Full Version : Just how big a need is DT?


Maddict5
01-09-2010, 03:15 PM
obviously we'd love to have a prototypical Haynesworth/Wilfork/Jenkins/Rogers type monster partnering a warren sapp/kevin williams penetrating 3 tech but just how badly do we need any new DT's?

since week 3: every week the cody/okoye/smith/zgonina combo has been excellent in run defence (id guess top 5) & gotten decent pressure too (antonio especially deserves special mention in this regard) so how big an upgrade need is it this offseason.

although okoye, cody & jeff generally cause a meh reaction from fans they must be doing decent to have the consistently good run defence we have. given our secondary & o-line woes, just what do we need at DT?

IBleedTexans
01-09-2010, 03:43 PM
obviously we'd love to have a prototypical Haynesworth/Wilfork/Jenkins/Rogers type monster partnering a warren sapp/kevin williams penetrating 3 tech but just how badly do we need any new DT's?

since week 3: every week the cody/okoye/smith/zgonina combo has been excellent in run defence (id guess top 5) & gotten decent pressure too (antonio especially deserves special mention in this regard) so how big an upgrade need is it this offseason.

although okoye, cody & jeff generally cause a meh reaction from fans they must be doing decent to have the consistently good run defence we have. given our secondary & o-line woes, just what do we need at DT?

You know seriously.... , i think if we were to go after vince wilfork, our secondary improves dramaticly.If we did make a big splash in the offseason like that we would make dunta and quin look like studs corners.

m5kwatts
01-09-2010, 03:45 PM
I think you may be on to something. I think DT is definitely in the "need" column but maybe not so much in the "desperate need" column. And judging by the drafts of the past few years, 1st round DT's aren't even close to a sure thing, we know that from Okoye. I think through free agency and the 3rd-7th rounds we just need to find DT(s) that fit our system and have upside and hope you get lucky. We really just need depth here because Zgonina is nothing to count on, Okoye needs to be pushed, Cody is a health question mark and Deljuan doesn't play many snaps.

And as far as DT targets, we need size thats for sure. We really had to cover up our small interior by blitzing a lot (Texans tops in the league in blitzes called) and I think with an actual space eating nose tackle we can rely on Antonio, Mario, and Barwin to win their phonebooth matchups and really just get pressure with the front 4.

rollinstone18
01-09-2010, 03:57 PM
i think it's a big enough need to spend a first or second round pick on.

thunderkyss
01-09-2010, 03:57 PM
obviously we'd love to have a prototypical Haynesworth/Wilfork/Jenkins/Rogers type monster partnering a warren sapp/kevin williams penetrating 3 tech but just how badly do we need any new DT's?

since week 3: every week the cody/okoye/smith/zgonina combo has been excellent in run defence (id guess top 5) & gotten decent pressure too (antonio especially deserves special mention in this regard) so how big an upgrade need is it this offseason.

although okoye, cody & jeff generally cause a meh reaction from fans they must be doing decent to have the consistently good run defence we have. given our secondary & o-line woes, just what do we need at DT?

Kubiak/Bush seem to want/value a penetrating 3 tech. I have no idea what they expect from the NT. BUt run defense seems to be more a function of the LBs & DEs. We've been much better in run defense after Cushing got 3 weeks under his belt on this team, as well as the addition of Pollard.

Amobi has looked very good at times, but too far in between.

If I were Smithiak, I would be looking for a value DT in the third or 4th round.

thunderkyss
01-09-2010, 04:04 PM
i think it's a big enough need to spend a first or second round pick on.

I really feel that we are talented enough that there is no definite position of need to say, "we've got to get a "XX" here."

We've got play-makers, bonafide Starters at every position. I understand the argument many have made for interior offensive line, but I believe Kubiak is satisfied with what he has to work with. I believe there will be some shuffling around, but overall, he's satisfied.

I expect us to trade down, and try to get an extra pick. If we can't make that happen, we'll pick the best prospect, regardless of what position, except maybe WR.

ATXtexanfan
01-09-2010, 04:17 PM
If a DT is highest rated player when your pick comes, take him. Agree that it isn't the biggest need.

Mr. White
01-09-2010, 04:18 PM
obviously we'd love to have a prototypical Haynesworth/Wilfork/Jenkins/Rogers type monster partnering a warren sapp/kevin williams penetrating 3 tech but just how badly do we need any new DT's?


We might love to have that type of DT, but the coaching staff wouldn't.

Smaller DT's fit with the defensive philosophy here. Seems like the linemen contain and the LB's make the plays.

So far, whatever we're doing seems like it's working. I don't expect to see any big changes at DT or anywhere on the D-Line for that matter.

ATXtexanfan
01-09-2010, 04:22 PM
Let's not assume that the improvement in run defense will carry over. We thought we had a rushing attack heading into this year. Both lines need improvement.

thunderkyss
01-09-2010, 04:35 PM
We might love to have that type of DT, but the coaching staff wouldn't.

Smaller DT's fit with the defensive philosophy here. Seems like the linemen contain and the LB's make the plays.

So far, whatever we're doing seems like it's working. I don't expect to see any big changes at DT or anywhere on the D-Line for that matter.

I would say there is some truth to what you are saying. But we want to be able to pressure the QB with our DL. There is no question there.

But with Connor Barwin coming on, & AntSmith playing well inside, they may have what they want.

Jackie Chiles
01-09-2010, 04:45 PM
If there is a good value in the first I think it would be a nice investment in front of our young star LBs. If not there are certainly other areas we could address.

RagingBull
01-09-2010, 05:05 PM
I don't think there is any way that Wilfork leaves New England. Either they pay him or franchise him.

Richard Seymore, however is an UFA and I seriously doubt he will want to stay in Oakland.

ObsiWan
01-09-2010, 05:31 PM
I don't think there is any way that Wilfork leaves New England. Either they pay him or franchise him.

Richard Seymore, however is an UFA and I seriously doubt he will want to stay in Oakland.

I hope you're right about that. Man, I sure would like to add Seymour to our D-line rotation.

Back to the original question. Adding a Haynesworth/Jenkins/Rogers quality DT in the middle of the line would make P.Manning very uncomfortable. But is it a critical need? I dunno if I'd put DT above FS or improving the interior O-line. I guess, in the draft anyway, we target those three positions and go best player available.

I guess what we do in F/A depends on how big a dent to our budget re-signing DeMeco, O.D., K.W., Pollard, and the other guys we want to hang onto will cost us. We're not in salary cap hell any more but we ain't all that "fat" either.

m5kwatts
01-09-2010, 05:53 PM
I don't think there is any way that Wilfork leaves New England. Either they pay him or franchise him.

Richard Seymore, however is an UFA and I seriously doubt he will want to stay in Oakland.

Oakland didn't give up a 1st round pick for Seymour to play 16 games and leave, he will be franchised, probably twice

All of the big name d-lineman will be franchised and even if they weren't there's no way the Texans would sign any of them. We have our own players to pay here and add in Antonio Smith's deal last year, the finances just wouldn't permit such a move.

Silver Oak
01-09-2010, 06:02 PM
Let's not assume that the improvement in run defense will carry over. We thought we had a rushing attack heading into this year. Both lines need improvement.

what he said, x 10

Goldensilence
01-09-2010, 06:04 PM
We might love to have that type of DT, but the coaching staff wouldn't.

Smaller DT's fit with the defensive philosophy here. Seems like the linemen contain and the LB's make the plays.

So far, whatever we're doing seems like it's working. I don't expect to see any big changes at DT or anywhere on the D-Line for that matter.

Great post. People on this board have been banging this drum for a couple of years now and there's been ample opportunity to address it via the draft,a few cheaper FAs and some value trades.

I have a similar gut feeling about our safeties as well. Unfortunately I don't think we'll see free safety addressed high this year. I'd love to see them show Dunta the finger release him and look to CB early.

playa465
01-09-2010, 06:14 PM
Big massive NT may not be in our coaching staff's scheme, but next year's schedule has some physical power running teams that we didn't really face this year. Our D steadily improved this year, but I just don't feel comfortable with our DL trying to hold containment against some of those OLs that we are looking at on the schedule.

Jackie Chiles
01-09-2010, 07:21 PM
One guy who fits the profile of a disruptive smaller DT that has pass rush ability is Brian Price. He could be available when we pick in the first round although plenty of time for him to rise or fall. He had a fantastic season for UCLA this year, check out this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irQMYESMEaY

m5kwatts
01-09-2010, 07:25 PM
One guy who fits the profile of a disruptive smaller DT that has pass rush ability is Brian Price. He could be available when we pick in the first round although plenty of time for him to rise or fall. He had a fantastic season for UCLA this year, check out this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irQMYESMEaY

He won't be on the board when the Texans draft, his stock is gonna soar the closer to the draft we get. Dan Williams (Tennessee), Arthur Jones (Syracuse), Marvin Austin (North Carolina) are all viable options in the 1st-2nd round.

Jackie Chiles
01-09-2010, 07:27 PM
He won't be on the board when the Texans draft, his stock is gonna soar the closer to the draft we get. Dan Williams (Tennessee), Arthur Jones (Syracuse), Marvin Austin (North Carolina) are all viable options in the 1st-2nd round.

I agree, I think Price is going to be long gone. Of the other guys you mentioned I think Austin is going back to school and I'm not really feeling Jones. Williams would be a fine pick to help against the run and keep blockers off our LBs.

m5kwatts
01-09-2010, 07:32 PM
I agree, I think Price is going to be long gone. Of the other guys you mentioned I think Austin is going back to school and I'm not really feeling Jones. Williams would be a fine pick to help against the run and keep blockers off our LBs.

I like Dan Williams too because of his motor, he'll play a higher amount of snaps than your normal DT which will only boost his stock more. Other than him and the obvious guys (Suh, McCoy, Price) I don't see any sure-fire 1st round worthy DT prospects.

Maddict5
01-09-2010, 07:43 PM
One guy who fits the profile of a disruptive smaller DT that has pass rush ability is Brian Price. He could be available when we pick in the first round although plenty of time for him to rise or fall. He had a fantastic season for UCLA this year, check out this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irQMYESMEaY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obWmTMTIMZo

just a pinch of salt to go when watching these DT videos. btw not picking on amobi, i couldve used dorsey, mccargo etc. sedrick ellis is the only recent first round DT i can think of off the top of my head that has lived up to his draft status (& hes pretty injury-prone)

Texans#1Fan
01-09-2010, 07:48 PM
if we don't sign pollard back I will be pissed! He was always around the ball! He is the first real safety we have had here and he should stay. How in the hell did the KC let him go? Who cares now since we have him, hopefully Rick will sign him back. If he doesn't we then need a new GM! Also, with the addition of Cushing. Words don't even describe it, He is just AWESOME!!!

Jackie Chiles
01-09-2010, 07:51 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obWmTMTIMZo

just a pinch of salt to go when watching these DT videos. btw not picking on amobi, i couldve used dorsey, mccargo etc. sedrick ellis is the only recent first round DT i can think of off the top of my head that has lived up to his draft status (& hes pretty injury-prone)

I get what your saying but the video I linked is not some three play post draft highlight. It pretty much shows him in every single game that he played in. Sedrick Ellis is actually a very comparable player fwiw.

maddogmrb
01-09-2010, 09:14 PM
i think it's a big enough need to spend a first or second round pick on.

Agreed. I believe we should use our first 2 or 3 picks on interior linemen on both sides of the ball.

Norg
01-09-2010, 10:34 PM
Its not that big prob 4th on the to do list

RipTraxx
01-10-2010, 11:41 AM
I think we should slide Smith inside, let Barwin get more PT at end.

gary
01-10-2010, 12:23 PM
How long do you all think Jeff has left to play?

awtysst
01-10-2010, 12:27 PM
How long do you all think Jeff has left to play?

He's a young 39. Besides haven't we been inundated with 40 is the new 30?! So, by that theory he still has another 5-7 solid seasons!

gary
01-10-2010, 12:35 PM
He's a young 39. Besides haven't we been inundated with 40 is the new 30?! So, by that theory he still has another 5-7 solid seasons!Not that he is almost done or anything I am just asking.

2slik4u
01-10-2010, 04:48 PM
If I were Smithiak, I would be looking for a value DT in the third or 4th round.
See Frank Okam. great value, not so great results. Im all for the "big splash" in the offseason.

TimeKiller
01-11-2010, 07:57 AM
Interior on either line is the biggest need IMO.

BigBull17
01-11-2010, 08:04 AM
i think it's a big enough need to spend a first or second round pick on.

1st round DT's have a HORRIBLE track record in the last few years. I wouldn't touch DT with a ten foot pole 1st round. Thiis draft is deep DT wise, so I would look 3rd or 4th. May even look at FA's.

HOU-TEX
01-11-2010, 08:53 AM
I made a statement before the season that if we went into the season with Zgonina in our DT rotation it was going to be a rough year for our Dline. Admittedly, Jeff had an admirable season and I submit my apologies to him.

That said, can we go into another season with him? I don't think so. Heck, if TJ didn't strain his labia in camp again, Jeff likely wouldn't have been a Texan this past season.

Okam has been a huge disappointment for me. Shame on me for expecting more from a 5th rounder.

So yes, DT is a need. Maybe not as high of a priority as Oline and DB, but definitely a need.

BigBull17
01-11-2010, 09:49 AM
I made a statement before the season that if we went into the season with Zgonina in our DT rotation it was going to be a rough year for our Dline. Admittedly, Jeff had an admirable season and I submit my apologies to him.

That said, can we go into another season with him? I don't think so. Heck, if TJ didn't strain his labia in camp again, Jeff likely wouldn't have been a Texan this past season.

Okam has been a huge disappointment for me. Shame on me for expecting more from a 5th rounder.

So yes, DT is a need. Maybe not as high of a priority as Oline and DB, but definitely a need.

I agree its a need, but 1st round DTs have been very hit/miss the last few years. Alot more miss than hit, to be honest.

beerlover
01-11-2010, 09:52 AM
I think we should slide Smith inside, let Barwin get more PT at end.

I really like this idea :chef:

No More 8-8's
01-11-2010, 10:31 AM
Uhmm why hasnt anyone mentioned Terrence Cody yet?

BigBull17
01-11-2010, 10:40 AM
Uhmm why hasnt anyone mentioned Terrence Cody yet?

I don't think he looked to good in the Title game. He has work ethic knocks by the butt load.

badboy
01-11-2010, 12:06 PM
I hope you're right about that. Man, I sure would like to add Seymour to our D-line rotation.

Back to the original question. Adding a Haynesworth/Jenkins/Rogers quality DT in the middle of the line would make P.Manning very uncomfortable. But is it a critical need? I dunno if I'd put DT above FS or improving the interior O-line. I guess, in the draft anyway, we target those three positions and go best player available.

I guess what we do in F/A depends on how big a dent to our budget re-signing DeMeco, O.D., K.W., Pollard, and the other guys we want to hang onto will cost us. We're not in salary cap hell any more but we ain't all that "fat" either.Under the un capped year criteria Seymour will be a UFA and will turn 31 Oct 2010. I think he'd be a great pick up and not effect our draft choices. Okam should be on way out after TC and Zgonia will be 52 I think.

maddogmrb
01-11-2010, 12:35 PM
I believe if we're going to keep Demeco as an undersized MLB we really need an impact DT in front of him. Whether he comes in the draft or via FA doesn't matter, but I think it should be a priority in moving our defense into the leagues top echelon.

infantrycak
01-11-2010, 12:39 PM
I believe if we're going to keep Demeco as an undersized MLB we really need an impact DT in front of him.

DeMeco is not an undersized MLB.

El Tejano
01-11-2010, 01:18 PM
I dunno if I'd put DT above FS or improving the interior O-line. I guess, in the draft anyway, we target those three positions and go best player available.



I agree with you about putting DT above FS or improving our interior Oline. I wouldn't do it. IMO, we've gone down the road of improving our DL and OL in the draft and each time we find ourselves saying "We won't see the return on our investment until year 3 or 4". Well, we don't have 3 or 4 more years. Okay maybe we do but Kubiak doesn't. They need their draft picks to be 2006esque because they need to have a team that will go to the playoffs next year.

I feel that you go and get veterans on the O and D lines. We got good skill players, so we can afford to draft our skill players now.