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View Full Version : Colt Injury, NCAA Farm System, Etc.


eriadoc
01-08-2010, 01:49 AM
OK, so the more I think about it, the more I think it's BS. The story we're being sold is that Colt wanted to come back in and give it his all. Nothing was broken; it was a sprain. Instead, the UT Longhorns' top priority was not to win their biggest game of the year, on the grandest stage, and win what passes for an NCAA title. No, their top priority was protecting Colt McCoy's future career in some unaffiliated league. I mean, if Colt was projected to go to the CFL, would they have acted the same?

I guess it's about time that the NCAA just openly declares that they're a farm league for the NFL (which we've all known for years anyway) and start conducting business as such. Last night was just a bit too overt for my tastes.

Never mind that the whole sequence of events just seemed a little fishy anyway.

WolverineFan
01-08-2010, 02:15 AM
Of course Colt wanted to play. It was the national championship for christ's sake! But if the doc says you can't play then you can't play. I'm sure the Texas' coaches would have loved to put him back in, if he was 90% or close to it. But he wasn't. In the interview after the game he said his arm was dead. It didn't hurt, but he couldn't feel it at all. I doubt he would have been very useful in the passing game with a dead arm.

Imatexanfan
01-08-2010, 04:14 AM
Colt wanted to play and he was going to play but the simple fact that his dad went to the locker room changed from I'm gonna play to...oh wait how much money will I get in April...

My point is that his daddy had his son not play because he won't f up his chances in the upcoming draft. Which every father would do that just the fact that his son wanted to play but he said no that is kinda messed up to me.

Scooter
01-08-2010, 04:23 AM
as wolverine mentioned, colt after the game said "i dont feel any pain ... i cant feel my arm at all". i'm as far as you can get from an expert, but if colt had gone to the trainer with "it hurts here and there's a sharp pain when i move it this way", there would probably have been a quick diagnosis followed by his return or report of injury. the numbness i can only assume worried the staff enough to bring in colt's dad, mack brown, and the doctors together to assess the risk. it seemed that colt wanted back in but was outvoted 3-1.

you're also missing one very important thing. why do kids go to college? colt mccoy's degree in throwing a football is going to earn him more than 99% of his graduating class. the NCAA is exactly what college is ... an elective for most, a major for others, and a direct opportunity for the top of the class. the only difference is that only 1 company is hiring.

kastofsna
01-08-2010, 08:26 AM
really? texas didn't want their two-time Heisman finalist playing in the national championship because of the draft?

Blake
01-08-2010, 08:53 AM
Obviously if you cant throw a football, I doubt you will be very useful in a game.

Unfortunaly Gilbert gave UT their best chances to win the game. Nothing more.

gwallaia
01-08-2010, 08:57 AM
Apparently it was a pinched nerve. He would not have been able to throw the ball effectively in the game.

michaelm
01-08-2010, 09:02 AM
The entire point of college is for students to get an education and prepare for their professional life. I hardly see how it's fishy that a student who is about to graduate did what is best for his future.

Hardcore Texan
01-08-2010, 09:06 AM
The entire point of college is for students to get an education and prepare for their professional life. I hardly see how it's fishy that a student who is about to graduate did what is best for his future.

Exactly right. Man, people are reaching on this one, the guy got hurt plain and simple, there's no conspiracy behind it.

Joe Texan
01-08-2010, 09:06 AM
the problem is not Colt but Mac Brown, College teams can be 100 strong and all Mac had was a Freshman QB for Back Up. That is a Mac Brown Problem by not having his second string ready.


Rooooooollll Tide Roll Tide

WWJD
01-08-2010, 10:31 AM
Colt tried to throw in the tunnel and wasn't able to. He wasn't whining or crying after the game..he just said his arm was dead and he's a smart guy. He couldn't play. Period.

Mac did the right thing. He couldn't play. He didn't.

gtexan02
01-08-2010, 11:22 AM
Would you have done differently? He has his whole life ahead of him, and he didn't know what the damage was. Would you risk your entire future for one game? Even if its the Ncaa championship?


If I was asked, of course I'd say "I wanted to play!" Even if it was me saying "No way am I risking further injury"

Texan4Ever
01-08-2010, 11:30 AM
I don't think anyone convinced Colt NOT to play, it was just the matter that he had an injury and would not have been effective on the field. If it WAS about the NFL and millions of dollars, how come he didn't go to the NFL Draft in 2009? He had the best season stat wise in 2008-2009 and I'm sure he wouldv'e been a high 2nd round pick.

Mari-OWNED!
01-08-2010, 11:33 AM
Colt McCoy before the National Championship was already considered not a first round talent by most scouts. I will take the benefit of the doubt that he couldn't play, but this will hurt his draft stock even more.

I'm thinking an early third round pick, unless a team falls in love with some of his intangibles.

bah007
01-08-2010, 12:29 PM
Colt McCoy before the National Championship was already considered not a first round talent by most scouts. I will take the benefit of the doubt that he couldn't play, but this will hurt his draft stock even more.

I'm thinking an early third round pick, unless a team falls in love with some of his intangibles.

A pinched nerve is not the type of injury that would cause a guy to fall in the draft.

bah007
01-08-2010, 12:31 PM
the problem is not Colt but Mac Brown, College teams can be 100 strong and all Mac had was a Freshman QB for Back Up. That is a Mac Brown Problem by not having his second string ready.


Rooooooollll Tide Roll Tide

The kid was ready to play. He was the National Player of the Year in high school last year.

The reason he wasn't successful when he first came in was because Greg Davis dummied down the offense and tried to protect him. When they finally decided to give him the keys to the car he started driving the team downfield.

No way in hell we run that dumbass shovel pass with Colt in the game. The coaches went into prevent offense mode when Gilbert came in and that is probably what ultimately cost us the game in the end.

Vinny
01-08-2010, 12:34 PM
OK, so the more I think about it, the more I think it's BS. The story we're being sold is that Colt wanted to come back in and give it his all. Nothing was broken; it was a sprain. Instead, the UT Longhorns' top priority was not to win their biggest game of the year, on the grandest stage, and win what passes for an NCAA title. No, their top priority was protecting Colt McCoy's future career in some unaffiliated league. I mean, if Colt was projected to go to the CFL, would they have acted the same?

I guess it's about time that the NCAA just openly declares that they're a farm league for the NFL (which we've all known for years anyway) and start conducting business as such. Last night was just a bit too overt for my tastes.

Never mind that the whole sequence of events just seemed a little fishy anyway.
So a College team does something in the best interest of the student and you have a problem with it? If they ruined his career for their own self interests you would be quick to jump on the School pimping the kids I'd bet.

eriadoc
01-08-2010, 12:43 PM
First, let me say that I had not heard the reports about the dead arm issue. From what I heard, he thought he could go, he wanted to go, and the team (maybe Dad) vetoed him. If he couldn't throw the ball, then that's that.

So a College team does something in the best interest of the student and you have a problem with it? If they ruined his career for their own self interests you would be quick to jump on the School pimping the kids I'd bet.

Nah. The college needs to try and win games. If the kid is in a situation where he can't play, or where if he plays he can further injure himself, then they need to look out for him. Under no situation should the NFL be a concern of the college. That was my argument all along, because that's the way it was presented on TV. Perhaps it was misrepresented, and I'm fine accepting that.

Also, I'm perfectly OK with McCoy declining to play for career considerations. It would be weak, but that's the way the system has evolved. I just don't like the idea of the college making decisions based on a projected NFL career. It's BS.

Mari-OWNED!
01-08-2010, 12:48 PM
A pinched nerve is not the type of injury that would cause a guy to fall in the draft.

True, but when you're a quarterback that scouts are already doubting, and have questions about your ability, getting knocked out of the National Championship doesn't make them think any higher of you.

Ole Miss Texan
01-08-2010, 12:50 PM
They would have loved for Colt to come back and lead them to victory... but the bottom line is that Gilbert gave the Horns the better shot of winning. Has nothing to do with Colt's situation outside his arm.

Blake
01-08-2010, 12:54 PM
Colt McCoy before the National Championship was already considered not a first round talent by most scouts. I will take the benefit of the doubt that he couldn't play, but this will hurt his draft stock even more.

I'm thinking an early third round pick, unless a team falls in love with some of his intangibles.

From what I hear he was a third round pick to start.

It only takes 1 team liking him to change that, but I could see him lasting until the top of day 2.

disaacks3
01-08-2010, 12:56 PM
the problem is not Colt but Mac Brown, College teams can be 100 strong and all Mac had was a Freshman QB for Back Up. That is a Mac Brown Problem by not having his second string ready.


Rooooooollll Tide Roll Tide BINGO!

But, if Mac's story is true, it actually gives me more respect for him for not risking further injury to Colt.

Scooter
01-08-2010, 01:16 PM
I just don't like the idea of the college making decisions based on a projected NFL career. It's BS.

you had me until that line partner. each of these jobs is top of their field, but one doesnt belong ... texas instruments, sony, national football league, halliburton, ford. doc, you're no young'n and you're intimately familiar with the process. set the NCAA sponserships and brackets aside and reincompass why you're there now or were recently. if your son is going to graduate with an immediate position to microsoft making 500K to start with growth potential, but a class in apple diagnostics would make him valedictorian and 45k with growth potential ... how involved do you want to be along with those more experienced?

college football like it or not is the minor leagues, but it IS College. it IS a projected career.

Texan_Bill
01-08-2010, 01:29 PM
Double post - mods please delete. Thanx.

Texan_Bill
01-08-2010, 01:31 PM
the problem is not Colt but Mac Brown, College teams can be 100 strong and all Mac had was a Freshman QB for Back Up. That is a Mac Brown Problem by not having his second string ready.


Rooooooollll Tide Roll Tide

That's not that uncommon at winning programs. Programs like that have guys that transfer or leave early for the draft. Texas had Jevan Snead that transfered to Ole Miss and John Chiles converted to reciever. An injury to Sam Bradford at OU caused Landry Jones to start this season as a red-shirt freshman. Matt Barkley at USC had to start because Mark Sanchez opted for the NFL draft.

So by your logic, Mack Brown, Pete Carroll and Bob Stoops all suck as coaches. I don't necessarily like any one of those three guys, but they don't suck as coaches.

WolverineFan
01-08-2010, 01:34 PM
"the problem is not Colt but Mac Brown, College teams can be 100 strong and all Mac had was a Freshman QB for Back Up. That is a Mac Brown Problem by not having his second string ready."


You don't know much about college recruiting if you think a coach can just stockpile good QB's on one roster. In this day and age young kids want to play so they go to schools that give them that opportunity. Colt was a 4 year starter. His backups transferred and they couldn't get top recruits until he was an upperclassmen because the young kids didn't want to sit behind him for 3 years. They wanted to play.

They had Jevan Snead behind him who could have redshirted and sat behind Colt for 3 years and then started his senior year. What did he do instead? Transferred as a sophomore and redshirted at Ole Miss and started for 2 years then went pro. You can't blame Mack for not having an experienced backup QB on the roster.

WWJD
01-08-2010, 01:37 PM
BINGO!

But, if Mac's story is true, it actually gives me more respect for him for not risking further injury to Colt.

It was Mac's decision but Colt agreed..I just heard him on the radio and he said in the tunnel he told them he could go....they told him ok throw..he tried to throw very short passes to his dad and he said the ball just fell out of his hand every single time.

There was just no way he could play. No way.

He would have fumbled every snap and never completed one pass if they had put him in.

Goldensilence
01-08-2010, 01:49 PM
The kid was ready to play. He was the National Player of the Year in high school last year.

The reason he wasn't successful when he first came in was because Greg Davis dummied down the offense and tried to protect him. When they finally decided to give him the keys to the car he started driving the team downfield.

No way in hell we run that dumbass shovel pass with Colt in the game. The coaches went into prevent offense mode when Gilbert came in and that is probably what ultimately cost us the game in the end.

Bingo. Greg Davis turtled up Texans style with running game that has struggled most of the year. Though I will admit the Texas WRs did hurt them with a number of dropped passes. Though the little shuffle pass whatever you want to call it was Chris Brown HB pass epically stupid.

I knew right when UT had to settled for a field goal after getting the ball on the kickoff they were in trouble. I kept yelling sooner or later they would have to open up the passing game especially when they got the ball into Goodwin's hands and he seemed to keep making big plays.

Really, nothing would make me happier then seeing Greg Davis fired, but I know it won't happen. Mack piles on so much recruited talent and it seems like only a few really reach their potential on the offensive side of the ball.

Dan B.
01-09-2010, 12:51 PM
Bingo. Greg Davis turtled up Texans style with running game that has struggled most of the year. Though I will admit the Texas WRs did hurt them with a number of dropped passes. Though the little shuffle pass whatever you want to call it was Chris Brown HB pass epically stupid.

I knew right when UT had to settled for a field goal after getting the ball on the kickoff they were in trouble. I kept yelling sooner or later they would have to open up the passing game especially when they got the ball into Goodwin's hands and he seemed to keep making big plays.

Really, nothing would make me happier then seeing Greg Davis fired, but I know it won't happen. Mack piles on so much recruited talent and it seems like only a few really reach their potential on the offensive side of the ball.

I have hated Greg Davis for a decade. The guy constantly retreats and goes into prevent mode. It is unbelievably frustrating and Texas wins despite Davis, not because of him. I just wish he actually had some ambition and would try to get a HC gig somewhere else. Unfortunately, he is perfectly happy calling the most boring games fathomable and getting rescued by superior recruiting.

I can't believe that Texas dropped what got them to the NC Game and went with an absurd up the gut running attack featuring Tre Newton the entire first half. There was no way that Garrett could succeed when the only time they let him pass was on 3rd and 15. They didn't trust their players to do what they had been doing and it cost them the game. Not to mention that it was retarded to call an option play featuring Colt in the first place. The guy is not an option QB. It's like asking Vince Young to run the run and shoot.

Greg Davis cost Texas any shot at that game. I'm not convinced Texas would have won even with Colt, although they played a really nice second half until late in the 4th. But there was no chance with him calling the shots on offense.

Incidentally, can anyone explain what was up with the kickoffs? I don't think I saw anyone kick it past the 30 all night. It was bizarre.

BattleRedToro
01-09-2010, 01:03 PM
Not to mention that it was retarded to call an option play featuring Colt in the first place. The guy is not an option QB. It's like asking Vince Young to run the run and shoot.

I thought that Texas runs a spread offense. The spread offense is a version of an option offense.

Dan B.
01-09-2010, 01:49 PM
I thought that Texas runs a spread offense. The spread offense is a version of an option offense.

Technically you are absolutely correct. I apologize for not being clear. Colt's options are usually one of 5 receivers spread across the field, not QB keeper through the line with a screen option. Davis apparently spaced out and thought it was the 2006 Rose Bowl and he had Vince at QB. bah007 explained it nicely here (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1345029&postcount=341).

It doesn't make a whole lotta sense to call that play when you've got a QB who has injured the same shoulder previously as well as having a neck injury that affected the nerves in that shoulder. Particularly when you spent the year pimping the guy for a Heisman rather than getting your frosh backup some PT when you are leading 44-3 in the 4th. I kind of think part of the reason there were so many dropped passes is that Garrett never had a chance to establish a rhythm with his WR's this season.

Goldensilence
01-09-2010, 04:08 PM
I have hated Greg Davis for a decade. The guy constantly retreats and goes into prevent mode. It is unbelievably frustrating and Texas wins despite Davis, not because of him. I just wish he actually had some ambition and would try to get a HC gig somewhere else. Unfortunately, he is perfectly happy calling the most boring games fathomable and getting rescued by superior recruiting.

I can't believe that Texas dropped what got them to the NC Game and went with an absurd up the gut running attack featuring Tre Newton the entire first half. There was no way that Garrett could succeed when the only time they let him pass was on 3rd and 15. They didn't trust their players to do what they had been doing and it cost them the game. Not to mention that it was retarded to call an option play featuring Colt in the first place. The guy is not an option QB. It's like asking Vince Young to run the run and shoot.

Greg Davis cost Texas any shot at that game. I'm not convinced Texas would have won even with Colt, although they played a really nice second half until late in the 4th. But there was no chance with him calling the shots on offense.

Incidentally, can anyone explain what was up with the kickoffs? I don't think I saw anyone kick it past the 30 all night. It was bizarre.

Yeah my poor fiance had to deal with me yelling at the screen most of the night. I was really pissed because there was no way they were going to get back into the game or win it running with Tre Newton.

Once he started getting it to the WRs, no big surprise the passing game came up with big plays like it has all year despite having crap for a running game.

From my understanding the special teams was afraid of giving up a big play on punts and kickoffs. That's why we likely kept seeing the weird kickoffs, but either way it still gave Alabama good starting field position every time.

Speaking of totally bizarre, what was possibly the thinking behind taking the timeout just to run a shuttle pass at the end of the second quarter that ended up being the play of the game. I had thought at least they'd heave it up and try and get in position for a field goal to edge closer.

Goldensilence
01-09-2010, 05:03 PM
From what I hear he was a third round pick to start.

It only takes 1 team liking him to change that, but I could see him lasting until the top of day 2.

Disagree had he been able to make it through the title game then play on some other bowl games, like the senior. He would've been a mid to late first rounder easy.

To me that's what is going to hurt him the most, not being able to showcase his skill set. I do think it brings back questions if his frame can handle the punishment of the NFL.

Colt's going to miss out on a NFL payday, but it might not be such a bad thing for his career. He doesn't have a cannon arm, but like Matt Schaub it's going to be his approach and his head that makes him attractive as a starter. Suddenly he becomes a late first to early second round value pick and doesn't have to be thrown into a starting position. Right now I think that makes a world of a difference for the growth of an NFL QB. I can think of a few situations were he could land.

Minnesota: Is Brett going to be back next year? Either way are Tavaris Jackson or Sage Rosenfels long term answers? I'm thinking not. You plug him in there with Harvin, Rice, and a good running game you have a good future there.

Seattle: How long is Matt Hasselbeck going to stick around? I don't think Wallace has a future as a starter. Maybe you go best LT in the first and you've got McCoy there is the second to groom.

Washington: Does Shannahan keep Campbell around? If so how long will he stick with him? Might not have the arm Shannahan wants, but has the intangible that make him a good leader in the huddle. Will mature faster then Cutler, and can digest a playbook easily.

At least that's early second that I can really think about. Another team that should be interesting to see what happens in the off-season at QB is going to be Denver.

BattleRedToro
01-09-2010, 10:17 PM
I think McCoy will still get an opportunity to play in one of the All-Star Bowls( Senior Bowl, Shrine Game, Texas vs. The Nation), as well as the NFL Combine.

I think the Titans would be a good fit.

Showtime100
01-09-2010, 10:47 PM
Some folks here think I'm a "hater" though I'm simply a bystander. I have to give the Horns and Gilbert some well deserved credit. I can't imagine a kid or his school coming back the way they did. Good for UT, good for Gilbert.

silvrhand
01-10-2010, 03:20 AM
Incidentally, can anyone explain what was up with the kickoffs? I don't think I saw anyone kick it past the 30 all night. It was bizarre.

Texas did not want to kick it to Arenas.

Dan B.
01-10-2010, 03:43 AM
Texas did not want to kick it to Arenas.

Sure, and Bama wanted nothing to do with Shipley for the most part. But the punting was atrocious as well, particularly for UT. There were no touchbacks or punts out of the end zone that I recall. Every kick seemed to be in the field of play. Texas got an onsides and a fumble recovery -- which I'm not sure I've ever seen a team do before -- so I'm not saying it was a poor strategy. It was definitely unusual to see these 30 yards punts and such on every kick though.

bah007
01-10-2010, 03:21 PM
Sure, and Bama wanted nothing to do with Shipley for the most part. But the punting was atrocious as well, particularly for UT. There were no touchbacks or punts out of the end zone that I recall. Every kick seemed to be in the field of play. Texas got an onsides and a fumble recovery -- which I'm not sure I've ever seen a team do before -- so I'm not saying it was a poor strategy. It was definitely unusual to see these 30 yards punts and such on every kick though.

It's because we had Tucker in there kicking those ridiculous 30 yard rugby punts that he has been doing all year. It only took three quarters for the coaches to realize how stupid this was and they finally put Gold back there and just let him boom it into the endzone.

Why in the hell would you rugby punt it to the 30 when you can just kick it out of the back of the endzone and have them start on the 20?

We've been doing this dumbass rugby punting for two years now and it's really starting to get annoying.

texanhead08
01-12-2010, 10:34 PM
If he can't feel his arm I want to know how in the hell is he supposed to throw the football. I am no Texas fan, but they couldn't have let Colt back in there with that injury they would have crushed any chance they had of winning with a decision like that.

WWJD
01-13-2010, 07:30 AM
If he can't feel his arm I want to know how in the hell is he supposed to throw the football. I am no Texas fan, but they couldn't have let Colt back in there with that injury they would have crushed any chance they had of winning with a decision like that.

There was no way he was going back in that game. Too much at stake.