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euro-Texan
12-30-2009, 09:55 PM
It seems like everyone is pretty glum about the "what could have beens". but I found an intersting stat by adding the point totals over the last few seasons. While we have yet to have our Texans play to OUR expectations, they will make a milestone Sunday (unless they loose by 49 points) by completing a season for the first time with a point differential in the black. I call that progress and moving in the right direction.

Point differential
2009 +48 (so far)
2008 -28
2007 -05
2006 -99
2005 -171
2004 -30
2003 -125
2002 -143

steelbtexan
12-30-2009, 10:04 PM
If they only used point differential as the determining factor on who makes the playoffs then you might be on to something.

houstonspartan
12-30-2009, 10:06 PM
More stats?

Yawn.

I did a quick calculation of how much I've spent on this team as a season ticket holder. Those stats nearly made me cry.

euro-Texan
12-30-2009, 10:08 PM
If they only used point differential as the determining factor on who makes the playoffs then you might be on to something.

We both know this teams isn't going to the superbowl. Did anyone predict that? Hell know. My point is we are moving in the right direction. Even in our previous 8-8 seasons we suffered some major asskickings. This year we delt more than we recieved for the first time EVER!

euro-Texan
12-30-2009, 10:09 PM
More stats?

Yawn.

I did a quick calculation of how much I've spent on this team as a season ticket holder. Those stats nearly made me cry.

Not too late to jump ship.

maddogmrb
12-30-2009, 10:26 PM
Here's some stats:

2009 = mediocrity
2008 = mediocrity
2007 = mediocrity

TexansFanatic
12-30-2009, 10:41 PM
It seems like everyone is pretty glum about the "what could have beens". but I found an intersting stat by adding the point totals over the last few seasons. While we have yet to have our Texans play to OUR expectations, they will make a milestone Sunday (unless they loose by 49 points) by completing a season for the first time with a point differential in the black. I call that progress and moving in the right direction.

Point differential
2009 +48 (so far)
2008 -28
2007 -05
2006 -99
2005 -171
2004 -30
2003 -125
2002 -143

I, for one, think that's pretty significant. Thanks for pointing that out.

SAMURAITEXAN
12-30-2009, 10:46 PM
euro-Texan, thank you for pointing out. It is a positive sign and we are moving in right direction.

Go Texans!!!

Goatcheese
12-30-2009, 10:49 PM
This was one of my requirements for backing Kubes for another year.

If we win this week, and have a + net points I think we're over the dreaded hump.

Brisco_County
12-30-2009, 10:54 PM
Hey, maybe I can dismiss indicative stats just so I can act like toughguy-sports-realist. "Stats are for losers! Grrrr!"

We get it, guys. You're realists. We know stats don't mean everything, but thanks for contributing.

I'd like to point out that these stats do mean the team is moving in the right direction regarding red zone production and defense, which might matter to an owner who needs to decide whether or not to keep his current head coach.

Let me preempt your response: "Winning or losing is all that McNair needs to look at! Grrrr!" I'll preempt that by saying maybe you should go start another "FIRE _______!!!1!" thread.

DexmanC
12-30-2009, 11:38 PM
Those stats indicate this is the BEST LOOKING 8-8 team in the NFL.
Let's see if they change that on Sunday.

houstonspartan
12-30-2009, 11:55 PM
Hey, maybe I can dismiss indicative stats just so I can act like toughguy-sports-realist. "Stats are for losers! Grrrr!"

We get it, guys. You're realists. We know stats don't mean everything, but thanks for contributing.

I'd like to point out that these stats do mean the team is moving in the right direction regarding red zone production and defense, which might matter to an owner who needs to decide whether or not to keep his current head coach.

Let me preempt your response: "Winning or losing is all that McNair needs to look at! Grrrr!" I'll preempt that by saying maybe you should go start another "FIRE _______!!!1!" thread.

Indicative stats my ass.

What a pretentious, smug, piece of shit response. So, you think you're better than us because you like medocrity and refuse to say anything bad about the home team? That's all good. But I disagree.

We can all agree to disagree. But at least be a man and back up how you feel with facts. Don't be a jerk.

And, for the record, yes, stats are, indeed for losers. All that counts are W's. You have not given us any argument to counter that claim.

Period.

Goatcheese
12-31-2009, 12:07 AM
Indicative stats my ass.

And, for the record, yes, stats are, indeed for losers. All that counts are W's. You have not given us any argument to counter that claim.


"W"s are just a team stat that tracks who had more points when time ran out.

What a clueless, whiny, piece of shit response.

houstonspartan
12-31-2009, 12:16 AM
"W"s are just a team stat that tracks who had more points when time ran out.

What a clueless, whiny, piece of shit response.

LOL. Ok, that's a new one.

So W's aren't important, I take it?

Goatcheese
12-31-2009, 12:34 AM
LOL. Ok, that's a new one.

So W's aren't important, I take it?

You're the one saying stats are not important.

According to you counting "W"s is for losers.

houstonspartan
12-31-2009, 12:43 AM
You're the one saying stats are not important.

According to you counting "W"s is for losers.

LOL!!!

Ah, Goat. You are good, my friend.

As a sports fan, you know as well as I do that end results are all that matters. We can be first in every statistic in the book, but if we don't have the W's, it somewhat waters it down a bit.

I don't completely disregard individual stats. Matt Schaub has had such an amazing year that it blows me away. We have a freaking top shelf quarterback. But even then, it would have been nice to get a few more wins to really give him the national attention he truly deserves. That's a case of, 'The stats are great, but a few more wins would have been even better.'

eriadoc
12-31-2009, 03:06 AM
In this particular case, stats are not for losers. They aren't for winners, either. Just 8-8, until further notice.

Malloy
12-31-2009, 04:44 AM
Hey, maybe I can dismiss indicative stats just so I can act like toughguy-sports-realist. "Stats are for losers! Grrrr!"

We get it, guys. You're realists. We know stats don't mean everything, but thanks for contributing.

I'd like to point out that these stats do mean the team is moving in the right direction regarding red zone production and defense, which might matter to an owner who needs to decide whether or not to keep his current head coach.

Let me preempt your response: "Winning or losing is all that McNair needs to look at! Grrrr!" I'll preempt that by saying maybe you should go start another "FIRE _______!!!1!" thread.

Post of the day!

Not that I'm keeping track, that could be used for statistics later ;)

BIG TORO
12-31-2009, 08:16 AM
So if we get beat by 48 we would be at 0, that would go good with our 8-8!

But, we are not going to lose so this is Forward progress! Good Stat

Kaiser Toro
12-31-2009, 08:19 AM
It is a nice stat, however, it should only be given credit to Kubiak if he had included it in his 2009 plan as a KPI. If not, it is a nice stat, but a meaningless one in the retention debate of he and his staff IMO.

Texan_Bill
12-31-2009, 08:46 AM
Hey, maybe I can dismiss indicative stats just so I can act like toughguy-sports-realist. "Stats are for losers! Grrrr!"

We get it, guys. You're realists. We know stats don't mean everything, but thanks for contributing.

I'd like to point out that these stats do mean the team is moving in the right direction regarding red zone production and defense, which might matter to an owner who needs to decide whether or not to keep his current head coach.

Let me preempt your response: "Winning or losing is all that McNair needs to look at! Grrrr!" I'll preempt that by saying maybe you should go start another "FIRE _______!!!1!" thread.

Repped!!!

Hilarious; "Grrr!!"

noxiousdog
12-31-2009, 08:56 AM
And, for the record, yes, stats are, indeed for losers. All that counts are W's. You have not given us any argument to counter that claim.

Period.


Stats are for people who care about the future rather than the past.

TheCD
12-31-2009, 08:59 AM
And, for the record, yes, stats are, indeed for losers. All that counts are W's. You have not given us any argument to counter that claim.

Period.

I agree with you that you are what you are, in terms of record. But I really think that the "stats are for losers" argument was invented by poorly performing players (a la Trent Dilfer as that's his favorite phrase) to excuse their terrible play on a team that won pretty much in spite of them.

You can't argue that a 4,000 yard passer puts you in a position to win.

You can't argue that a 1,600 yard rusher puts you in a position to win.

You can't argue that leading the league in interceptions, sacks and fumbles puts you in a position to win.

These are all stats. They are not the end-all-be-all, but nobody is saying they are. They're signs of production and progress. If stats were for losers, then coaches wouldn't analyze them to find out how to improve those numbers.

Stats = production = W's. We haven't reaped the benefit of those W's, but I'll explain why at the bottom.


LOL!!!
I don't completely disregard individual stats. Matt Schaub has had such an amazing year that it blows me away. We have a freaking top shelf quarterback. But even then, it would have been nice to get a few more wins to really give him the national attention he truly deserves. That's a case of, 'The stats are great, but a few more wins would have been even better.'

I love Matt. I think he's the guy for us. But while he's producing at a high level for us, he's not coming through in the clutch yet consistently. He throw pick 6's during a two-minute drill to win the game. He fails to pick up the proper mike on blitzing plays sometimes. He still holds on to the ball too long. I'm confident that these things will be fixed, but that is why he's not there yet.

There is no running game, as we're all aware of. The old saying goes "you run to win the game", and whether or not that is true, it certainly highlights why we can't hold on to leads. There is no production here. I think we're on pace to finish the season without a single RB over 450 yards rushing. This stat alone tells you how poorly we're playing. I'm still not convinced we have all of the talent we need to be truly competitive. Unfortunately, Matt is no Peyton, who can win regardless of the talent around him (with the exception of an o-line, without that he's toast).

You say that stats are for losers and all that counts are W/L's. But I point to you our rushing stats and show you that this is a stat that shows why we're so high in the L column.

I agree that skewed stats (a la "the Colts have won so many consecutive regular season games yet they lost last postseason, but streak continues...or "Brett Favre has a " " passer rating in games played below whatever temperature) are meaningless and only serve as an interesting side-note to how the player/team might perform. But some stats truly are indicative of the W's and L's. We are what we are in terms of our record, but there are some telling stats that can point out why we are.

DeMarCushPoll
12-31-2009, 09:03 AM
If they only used point differential as the determining factor on who makes the playoffs then you might be on to something.

I think he's on to something big time. It means for the first time in this teams history we have a lagit defense to go along with a potent offense. This will translate in to more wins as well as future trips to the playoffs.

Onward and Upward!

thunderkyss
12-31-2009, 10:03 AM
I, for one, think that's pretty significant. Thanks for pointing that out.

significant?

IT's down right pathetic. That is a huge, huge difference between the Capers & Kubiak years. I knew we weren't very good that first 4 years, but to come in & reduce the point differential by 80 points while retooling... & not even coming close to the 160s where we used to live is amazing. I think anyway.

I don't have the stats to back it up, but this definitely supports my belief that we are better simply for the fact that when we turn the ball over, & we've done that alot over the years... it used to be a guaranteed score for the other team. Now, not so much. We have a defense that can force a 3 & out like nobodies business.

We also used to turn the ball over multiple times, if we turned it over once. Remember that Cowboy game? An Int led to a fumbled kick return, then another Int, & another fumble...

We used to look like the Keystone Cops.... now we look like a football team.

TheCD
12-31-2009, 10:54 AM
We have a defense that can force a 3 & out like nobodies business.

Not to mention goalline stands...

Ranger Tom
12-31-2009, 11:08 AM
Point differential won't tell us if we're "over the hump" or if we've "turned the corner." If we beat the Patriots' starters, then we've got something going. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

HJam72
12-31-2009, 01:17 PM
I think this matters more than some of us want to admit, but if we lose next Sunday (even by a single point) I'm not gonna care at all...

The Pencil Neck
12-31-2009, 01:24 PM
Here's some stats:

2009 = mediocrity
2008 = mediocrity
2007 = mediocrity


How about this:

2002 = Just Happy To Have Football but crap
2003 = Crap
2004 = Average
2005 = Unbelievable Crap
2006 = improving Crap
2007 = Average
2008 = Average
2009 = Possibly slightly above Average

I dislike the word "mediocrity" because it doesn't imply 8-8. Mediocre has two basic definitions: average and poor. So when you say something is "mediocre", it's not clear what you mean but there's a strong implication of being substandard. 8-8 isn't poor. 8-8 isn't substandard. 8-8 is average. Average isn't poor.

To call 8-8 "mediocre" strikes me as intellectually dishonest. To call 9-7 "mediocre" is even worse than that.

houstonspartan
12-31-2009, 02:30 PM
I agree with you that you are what you are, in terms of record. But I really think that the "stats are for losers" argument was invented by poorly performing players (a la Trent Dilfer as that's his favorite phrase) to excuse their terrible play on a team that won pretty much in spite of them.

You can't argue that a 4,000 yard passer puts you in a position to win.

You can't argue that a 1,600 yard rusher puts you in a position to win.

You can't argue that leading the league in interceptions, sacks and fumbles puts you in a position to win.

These are all stats. They are not the end-all-be-all, but nobody is saying they are. They're signs of production and progress. If stats were for losers, then coaches wouldn't analyze them to find out how to improve those numbers.

Stats = production = W's. We haven't reaped the benefit of those W's, but I'll explain why at the bottom.




I love Matt. I think he's the guy for us. But while he's producing at a high level for us, he's not coming through in the clutch yet consistently. He throw pick 6's during a two-minute drill to win the game. He fails to pick up the proper mike on blitzing plays sometimes. He still holds on to the ball too long. I'm confident that these things will be fixed, but that is why he's not there yet.

There is no running game, as we're all aware of. The old saying goes "you run to win the game", and whether or not that is true, it certainly highlights why we can't hold on to leads. There is no production here. I think we're on pace to finish the season without a single RB over 450 yards rushing. This stat alone tells you how poorly we're playing. I'm still not convinced we have all of the talent we need to be truly competitive. Unfortunately, Matt is no Peyton, who can win regardless of the talent around him (with the exception of an o-line, without that he's toast).

You say that stats are for losers and all that counts are W/L's. But I point to you our rushing stats and show you that this is a stat that shows why we're so high in the L column.

I agree that skewed stats (a la "the Colts have won so many consecutive regular season games yet they lost last postseason, but streak continues...or "Brett Favre has a " " passer rating in games played below whatever temperature) are meaningless and only serve as an interesting side-note to how the player/team might perform. But some stats truly are indicative of the W's and L's. We are what we are in terms of our record, but there are some telling stats that can point out why we are.

Fair points all around. You are correct that stats can help us peel back the curtan to get more context. I just don't want to see people happy with just stats. We need to happy with the w's.

Again, great post and counter to my argument.

Brisco_County
12-31-2009, 07:01 PM
Indicative stats my ass.

What a pretentious, smug, piece of shit response. So, you think you're better than us because you like medocrity and refuse to say anything bad about the home team? That's all good. But I disagree.

We can all agree to disagree. But at least be a man and back up how you feel with facts. Don't be a jerk.

And, for the record, yes, stats are, indeed for losers. All that counts are W's. You have not given us any argument to counter that claim.

Period.

Why yes, I am better than you, but that's because I'm better than most people. Loving mediocrity has nothing to do with it.

I'll cut you some slack because you're a season ticket holder, and I do sympathize with expecting value for your money. But one thing that has to be acknowledged is that this team is still transitioning away from a period with a TRAGICALLY bad GM. The house had to be rebuilt from the foundation, and no old materials were re-used except two positions.

"But it shouldn't take anyone four years!"

Maybe, maybe not. There's no gold standard on that, especially on a team with this many young players.

Not every team can be the 2008 Dolphins. Turning this team around is like turning the Titanic in a bathtub... Or like teaching basic algebra to Travis Johnson. It's going to take a few years.

So during the transition, we need some indicators showing that we're getting closer to the goal. I believe this stat is a good one.

infantrycak
12-31-2009, 07:09 PM
Not every team can be the 2008 Dolphins.

In the context of a coaching discussion, it turns out the 2009 Dolphins couldn't be the 2008 Dolphins and that was more about Pennington.

Brisco_County
12-31-2009, 07:15 PM
In the context of a coaching discussion, it turns out the 2009 Dolphins couldn't be the 2008 Dolphins and that was more about Pennington.

Good point. It reminds me of Kurt Warner being given the full time starting job.

ObsiWan
01-01-2010, 02:35 AM
In the context of a coaching discussion, it turns out the 2009 Dolphins couldn't be the 2008 Dolphins and that was more about Pennington.

And it turns out the 2009 Ravens couldn't be the 2008 Ravens again either. Neither could the 2009 Falcons be the 2008 Falcons again.

thunderkyss
01-01-2010, 02:48 AM
In the context of a coaching discussion, it turns out the 2009 Dolphins couldn't be the 2008 Dolphins and that was more about Pennington.

And Pennington's biggest assetts were his intangibles. Leadership, determination & tenacity.

houstonspartan
01-01-2010, 05:18 AM
Why yes, I am better than you, but that's because I'm better than most people. Loving mediocrity has nothing to do with it.

I'll cut you some slack because you're a season ticket holder, and I do sympathize with expecting value for your money. But one thing that has to be acknowledged is that this team is still transitioning away from a period with a TRAGICALLY bad GM. The house had to be rebuilt from the foundation, and no old materials were re-used except two positions.

"But it shouldn't take anyone four years!"

Maybe, maybe not. There's no gold standard on that, especially on a team with this many young players.

Not every team can be the 2008 Dolphins. Turning this team around is like turning the Titanic in a bathtub... Or like teaching basic algebra to Travis Johnson. It's going to take a few years.

So during the transition, we need some indicators showing that we're getting closer to the goal. I believe this stat is a good one.

Thanks for the response. And happy new year, bro.

I agree with your comments about the Casserly era. At first, I thought blaming Casserly was a cop out. But, after looking at it deeper a few months ago, I realized that Casserly's choices really did hurt this team, and we're still dealing with those issues right now.

However, I think you may be misunderstanding my point. I don't expect the 2008 Dolphins. But you have to look at the 2009 New Orleans Saints. No, I'm not expecting the same level of performance they had this year.

But, come on: Sean Payton and Gary Kubiak were hired within weeks of each other. We should be farther along than we are right now. Four years in, 11 wins aren't that much to ask for. At least not from a team as talented as this one.

It's not about me being a season ticket holder. Fans are fans, season ticket holders or not. We should ALL have high standards for this team.

DexmanC
01-01-2010, 07:02 AM
It's just sad that with all the excuse making going on here, the only thing
we have to look forward to is the SAME putrid performance in the AFC South,
and a ONE GAME IMPROVEMENT in "just" THREE YEARS.

We gotta hear how much better this team is than their record, yet their
record is potentially ONE GAME of improvement from the last two years.
At this rate, Kubiak will be in season 10, before we're championship caliber.

thunderkyss
01-01-2010, 07:03 AM
I agree with your comments about the Casserly era. At first, I thought blaming Casserly was a cop out. But, after looking at it deeper a few months ago, I realized that Casserly's choices really did hurt this team, and we're still dealing with those issues right now.

I don't think it was Casserly alone. The biggest problem I think was Bob McNair. I still believe there was an unhealthy relationship with HWSNBN that forced Capers to focus his attention on one specific area of the team, where we did not develop any other position as well as we should have during those years.

Travis Johnon, CC Brown, Jabar Gafney & David Carr are the only players I can think of still making a living in the NFL. none of them are starters. TJ is the only one we got anything for.

AJ, Kris Brown, & Dunta Robinson are the only hold overs from that era, and 2 of the 3 may not make it another year.

Well, Billy Miller did have a good career for a little while after leaving here.

But, come on: Sean Payton and Gary Kubiak were hired within weeks of each other. We should be farther along than we are right now. Four years in, 11 wins aren't that much to ask for. At least not from a team as talented as this one.

I know New Orleans had the second pick in the 2006 draft, but it wasn't because they were untalented. The offense was pretty much intact, all they added was a WR(7th round, so it's not like they thought it was a huge need) & a QB. The entire line, the starting WRs & the backfield was already there. Most of them had been playing together for the better part of 6 years by the time Payton got there.

He did pretty much rebuild the defense, same as Kubiak, & I think Kubiak has kept pace with him in that regard.

It's not about me being a season ticket holder. Fans are fans, season ticket holders or not. We should ALL have high standards for this team.

The standard is high..... we all expect to be contending for a Super Bowl. As an organization.. that's something Kubiak had to bring in. That's how bad things were here.

I've said it before, Kubiak has done wonders for the product on the field. I know you don't see it in the W-L record, but if you can't see it on game day, I don't know what to say.

But he's also done wonders for this organization.

DexmanC
01-01-2010, 07:08 AM
Again, when you butt Kubiak and Smith's achievements next to Casserly/Capers,
this regime looks Hall-of-Fame. However, it's only average. We're ranked near
15th in every overall category. A rookie head coach took something he was
good at, and made his team NUMBER ONE. I know you know who I'm talking
about. His team holds the #1 run offense, and the #1 overall defense.

Putrid next to average looks great, but it's still average.

55 games...

28-27 record.

That's AVERAGE!

thunderkyss
01-01-2010, 10:48 AM
I know it sucks not to be able to go from worse to first. But that doesn't mean there hasn't been major progress on this team from last year. I know it doesn't show up in the W-L column..... ultimately that is where we would all like to see it, & if we keep doing what we are doing..... continue to improve, it will. Look at all the things people have been showing you on this board, & HT.com There is a lot of good stuff, & Kubiak is right in the middle of it.

But if you want to talk about what that other coach did on his team. He had one of the leading rushers in the league last year, & he inherited the entire offensive line. So it's not like he started from scratch.

I know the Stats don't look that great, but he didn't overhaul his defensive personnel like we've done over the last three years.

Last year, that team was where we are today. They had it all, I really don't know why they dumped Mangini... I didn't follow that. They just needed to put it all together.

Would they have been better with Mangini? The defense might not have been #1, because they weren't that aggressive. But they would have been good. Their W-L would probably have been better. But it's hard to say. If Brett Farve didn't loose his arm at the end of last season, they may have gone 12-4 last year.

thunderkyss
01-01-2010, 10:59 AM
Looking at their stats from last year. They were 7th against the run, and 29th against the pass.

It's amazing what getting pressure on the QB will do for you.

houstonspartan
01-01-2010, 11:19 AM
It's just sad that with all the excuse making going on here, the only thing
we have to look forward to is the SAME putrid performance in the AFC South,
and a ONE GAME IMPROVEMENT in "just" THREE YEARS.

We gotta hear how much better this team is than their record, yet their
record is potentially ONE GAME of improvement from the last two years.
At this rate, Kubiak will be in season 10, before we're championship caliber.

Agree with this.

Brisco_County
01-01-2010, 02:23 PM
But, come on: Sean Payton and Gary Kubiak were hired within weeks of each other. We should be farther along than we are right now. Four years in, 11 wins aren't that much to ask for. At least not from a team as talented as this one.

It all depends on which pieces of the engine you have to replace. Sometimes it only requires a timing belt, and sometimes it takes many more parts.

And some mechanics are better than others, but you're patient with the one you've got because he specializes specifically on your model of vehicle.

DexmanC
01-01-2010, 02:26 PM
It all depends on which pieces of the engine you have to replace. Sometimes it only requires a timing belt, and sometimes it takes many more parts.

And some mechanics are better than others, but you're patient with the one you've got because he specializes specifically on your model of vehicle.

Get Kubiak a suit and a tophat, and enshrine him after his namesake, Tom
Landry, in Canton! He's only at FOUR years of failure. He should start
winning after four more years, just like Landry!!

:sarcasm:

Mr. White
01-01-2010, 03:07 PM
It seems like everyone is pretty glum about the "what could have beens". but I found an intersting stat by adding the point totals over the last few seasons. While we have yet to have our Texans play to OUR expectations, they will make a milestone Sunday (unless they loose by 49 points) by completing a season for the first time with a point differential in the black. I call that progress and moving in the right direction.

Point differential
2009 +48 (so far)
2008 -28
2007 -05
2006 -99
2005 -171
2004 -30
2003 -125
2002 -143

Can't argue with the numbers. I'm still not impressed with the team's progress, but credit you with bringing something new to the argument.

I know there's also a stat floating around somewhere about our loss differential. It's gone from an average of 14 points per game in 2006 to 3 points per game this season.

There's no arguing that the team's improved. All the arguing over stats is about to get settled. The most important stat (the W's) gets decided tomorrow.

DexmanC
01-01-2010, 03:10 PM
Can't argue with the numbers. I'm still not impressed with the team's progress, but credit you with bringing something new to the argument.

I know there's also a stat floating around somewhere about our loss differential. It's gone from an average of 14 points per game in 2006 to 3 points per game this season.

There's no arguing that the team's improved. All the arguing over stats is about to get settled. The most important stat (the W's) gets decided tomorrow.

Amen. I pray the Texans win, so that we get to see TANGIBLE improvement.

Fred
01-01-2010, 03:13 PM
In this particular case, stats are not for losers. They aren't for winners, either. Just 8-8, until further notice.

OUCH! OUCH!! OUCH!!!

Of course it wouldn't hurt if it wasn't true...

imatexan
01-01-2010, 04:20 PM
Here's some stats:

2009 = mediocrity
2008 = mediocrity
2007 = mediocrity

Many of you are delusional, it is getting out of control.

Y'all act like the Texans are one of the worst teams in football and have already lost Sunday to go to 8-8.

Well guess what the Texans have not and I expect them to go 9-7 and possibily make the playoffs for the best season in the franchise's history.

This is an exciting time for Texans fan.

We have a meaningful week 17 game at home!

I do not understand how being a fan of a team can be fun if during the better times you are still all gloom and doom.

I just can't wait to watch my Texans sunday in a meaningful game!

It is time to get excited for Sunday and put off your negativity!

DexmanC
01-01-2010, 04:32 PM
Many of you are delusional, it is getting out of control.

Y'all act like the Texans are one of the worst teams in football and have already lost Sunday to go to 8-8.

Well guess what the Texans have not and I expect them to go 9-7 and possibily make the playoffs for the best season in the franchise's history.

This is an exciting time for Texans fan.

We have a meaningful week 17 game at home!

I do not understand how being a fan of a team can be fun if during the better times you are still all gloom and doom.

I just can't wait to watch my Texans sunday in a meaningful game!

It is time to get excited for Sunday and put off your negativity!

We just hold high standards for this team. They are NOT one of the worst
teams in the NFL, they've just had NO NET IMPROVEMENT over the last
3 years. Improvement in some areas, equal regression in others = no
net gain. We're looking to move FORWARD. Most of Kubiak's 1st draft
class have already reached half their careers.

Although a win against the Patriots will be the FIRST meaningful one all season!

imatexan
01-01-2010, 07:57 PM
We just hold high standards for this team. They are NOT one of the worst
teams in the NFL, they've just had NO NET IMPROVEMENT over the last
3 years. Improvement in some areas, equal regression in others = no
net gain. We're looking to move FORWARD. Most of Kubiak's 1st draft
class have already reached half their careers.

Although a win against the Patriots will be the FIRST meaningful one all season!

I agree with the frustration but it seems that you also have to enjoy the good times when they come and many around here do not seem to be.

euro-Texan
01-01-2010, 08:41 PM
Many of you are delusional, it is getting out of control.

Y'all act like the Texans are one of the worst teams in football and have already lost Sunday to go to 8-8.

Well guess what the Texans have not and I expect them to go 9-7 and possibily make the playoffs for the best season in the franchise's history.

This is an exciting time for Texans fan.

We have a meaningful week 17 game at home!

I do not understand how being a fan of a team can be fun if during the better times you are still all gloom and doom.

I just can't wait to watch my Texans sunday in a meaningful game!

It is time to get excited for Sunday and put off your negativity!

I agree whole heartedly. I think some people had unusually high expectations of this team. The reason I posted these stats in the first place was to suggest this team IS improving. The W/L are what is most important for obvious reasons, but they do not tell the whole story. I was expecting a 10 win season this year. This team could have gotten 10 wins this year or maybe more. Last years team could not IMO. I would rather have a team that can consistantly compete than one who gets a fluke season, but consistantly drafts high. We are not there yet, but we ARE moving in that direction.

Comparing us to any other team over the last eight years is impossible, because the last eight season have encompassed our entire franchise. And almost everything that was put into the first four seasons needed to be replaced in the Kubiak era. This team is ready. This season with or without the playoffs, is not just our high water mark, but more because for the first time we are a legitimate NFL heavy hitter that no longer needs excuses. Hell, two years ago the media still called us an expansion team and equated our wins to our opponants mistakes instead of our merits.

Some people expectations or STANDARDS might be higher for the 2009 Texans, but in reality we have now taken a neccessary step towards those standards in the future.

thunderkyss
01-01-2010, 09:35 PM
Hell, two years ago the media still called us an expansion team and equated our wins to our opponants mistakes instead of our merits.


Not just the media, but our own fans as well. Many (if not most) are hoping the Pats sit there starters. I know every little bit helps, but if we are who we think we are, we should want Brady, Moss & Welker in there.

Another thing that I don't understand, the Soapers, DexmanC in particular, talk about no tangible improvement, & "putrid" performance in the division. Those division games were some of the best games I've seen in the 8 year history of this franchise. We didn't win... I know that. But I did not think this was a dominate team & that we were going to steam roll every body.

Each game was competitive.... how can you say we aren't competitive in the division? 1-5 looks like crap, but it doesn't tell the whole story.

And the win against Miami.... we've played them 5 years in a row... & we beat them 5 years in a row. It's been neck & neck every game, except this one, & we dominated for at least a half on offense, with offensive turnovers (because their defense stepped up in the second half) being the big difference in the second half.

Defensively, we dominated the entire game. holding them to 3 points in the first half, & allowing them to score on only half of their second half possessions.

IMHO, if you can't watch this team play, and know that there is definite improvement... you're not a real fan. I know the kool-aid drinkers (raising hand) will profess improvement whether it's there or not. In years pass, we definitely had a "king's new robe" thing going on. But this is different.

I understand wanting, & even needing to see the improvement where it counts most. But to act like the real substantial improvement is meaningless is asinine. & IMHO takes away from their argument.

DexmanC
01-01-2010, 10:38 PM
Not just the media, but our own fans as well. Many (if not most) are hoping the Pats sit there starters. I know every little bit helps, but if we are who we think we are, we should want Brady, Moss & Welker in there.

Another thing that I don't understand, the Soapers, DexmanC in particular, talk about no tangible improvement, & "putrid" performance in the division. Those division games were some of the best games I've seen in the 8 year history of this franchise. We didn't win... I know that. But I did not think this was a dominate team & that we were going to steam roll every body.

Each game was competitive.... how can you say we aren't competitive in the division? 1-5 looks like crap, but it doesn't tell the whole story.

And the win against Miami.... we've played them 5 years in a row... & we beat them 5 years in a row. It's been neck & neck every game, except this one, & we dominated for at least a half on offense, with offensive turnovers (because their defense stepped up in the second half) being the big difference in the second half.

Defensively, we dominated the entire game. holding them to 3 points in the first half, & allowing them to score on only half of their second half possessions.

IMHO, if you can't watch this team play, and know that there is definite improvement... you're not a real fan. I know the kool-aid drinkers (raising hand) will profess improvement whether it's there or not. In years pass, we definitely had a "king's new robe" thing going on. But this is different.

I understand wanting, & even needing to see the improvement where it counts most. But to act like the real substantial improvement is meaningless is asinine. & IMHO takes away from their argument.

Remember when the Astros played in the World Series? EVERY GAME
was decided by ONE run! There was even a 16 inning game?? It was
the most EXCITING World Series I'd ever seen!

But they were STILL SWEPT!!!!

I'm not satisfied with "losing, so long as we look good." The games
were exciting, but the NFL is a RESULTS-BASED league. Winning teams
make damn sure they get the WIN. Don't skew the purpose of those games.
Like the Astros World Series, each game was exciting, but at the end of the
day, I want to see this team put WINNING FIRST.

Just like the elite teams of this league. It's a mindset.

Goldensilence
01-01-2010, 11:07 PM
Many of you are delusional, it is getting out of control.

Y'all act like the Texans are one of the worst teams in football and have already lost Sunday to go to 8-8.

Well guess what the Texans have not and I expect them to go 9-7 and possibily make the playoffs for the best season in the franchise's history.

This is an exciting time for Texans fan.

We have a meaningful week 17 game at home!

I do not understand how being a fan of a team can be fun if during the better times you are still all gloom and doom.

I just can't wait to watch my Texans sunday in a meaningful game!

It is time to get excited for Sunday and put off your negativity!

In other words.... at least we aren't the lions!

We're looking at possibly the most exciting 8-8 season EVER!

imatexan
01-02-2010, 02:28 AM
In other words.... at least we aren't the lions!

We're looking at possibly the most exciting 8-8 season EVER!

This statement is exactly my entire point!

We ARE NOT and I do not think we will be 8-8 after Sunday!
Why can you not cheer for this team to have its best season ever?
I just don't get it.

The lions!?
Come on now we are better than AT LEAST half the league and probally much better talent wise than that.
This is not a "at least were not the lions" kind of season, hopefully at some point people will understand this and join in the fun.

Grams
01-02-2010, 08:43 AM
This team is ready. This season with or without the playoffs, is not just our high water mark, but more because for the first time we are a legitimate NFL heavy hitter that no longer needs excuses. Hell, two years ago the media still called us an expansion team and equated our wins to our opponants mistakes instead of our merits.

Some people expectations or STANDARDS might be higher for the 2009 Texans, but in reality we have now taken a neccessary step towards those standards in the future.

I seem to remeber that after the Bengals game this year, it was more of how the Bengals lost than how we won - - still.

Grams
01-02-2010, 09:00 AM
I think the Texans have improved a great deal this year. Better played games, no blow-outs, always an opportunity to win at the end of the game. Schaub has put up in position to win or tie on several ocassions.

I think this Sunday will be the deciding factor for some of us "fence-sitters" to move over the fence of stay on the other side.

A win over the Pats - no matter how ugly - will get us a winning season and an opportunity for the playoffs. This team should be up and ready to kick some butt and take names later. I know we have lost some important players in the OL, RB, TE and some in the secondary.

But this game, I think, is more about attitude, about wanting to win. The coaches need to get these guys highly motivated to win and come out hitting and hit for a full 60 min.

whiskeyrbl
01-02-2010, 09:06 AM
Indicative stats my ass.

What a pretentious, smug, piece of shit response. So, you think you're better than us because you like medocrity and refuse to say anything bad about the home team? That's all good. But I disagree.

We can all agree to disagree. But at least be a man and back up how you feel with facts. Don't be a jerk.

And, for the record, yes, stats are, indeed for losers. All that counts are W's. You have not given us any argument to counter that claim.

Period.

I can agree that w's are the most important STAT out there. However your Smug(you know the rest) response is not entirely accurate. Stats are not for losers as you so graciously put it. Stats are a measuring stick in sports for individual and team progress. Ex. Is a .350 hitter better than a .250 hitter ?
Is a RB averaging 4.5 yards a carry better than one averaging 2.5 ? Is scoring 20 pts a game better than 10 ? In your assessment people who look at ingredients of food, or calorie intake are losers. Aren't they a form of stats? Just saying that W's are the ultimate goal and the stats are a more in depth look at the progression or regression of a certain team/individual. And stats are facts. And in this case our stats have improved however our record hasn't. What does it all mean? Our team is getting better but we aren't quite there yet. Just because you take things at face value ( w - l ) don't try and demean people who take the time to do a little research and come up with other facts to base thier opinions on........ Just saying

DeMarCushPoll
01-02-2010, 09:26 AM
I seem to remeber that after the Bengals game this year, it was more of how the Bengals lost than how we won - - still.

I don't know why anyone would've thought that, we dominated them on both sides of the ball. Ced Ben was at that time leading the league in rushing and we shut his ass down.

Grams
01-02-2010, 09:46 AM
I don't know why anyone would've thought that, we dominated them on both sides of the ball. Ced Ben was at that time leading the league in rushing and we shut his ass down.

I agree. But on Sports Center after the game it was all about the Bengals and not what we did to them.

DexmanC
01-02-2010, 10:57 AM
I don't know why anyone would've thought that, we dominated them on both sides of the ball. Ced Ben was at that time leading the league in rushing and we shut his ass down.

Yeah, but when you allow MJD to get the ball 11 straight times to put you
away, with 3 FIRST DOWNS, that Juggernaut Run Defense reputation
takes a huge shot.

edo783
01-02-2010, 09:17 PM
Yeah, but when you allow MJD to get the ball 11 straight times to put you
away, with 3 FIRST DOWNS, that Juggernaut Run Defense reputation
takes a huge shot.

You know, I have been following your posts for some time and I have doubts that you even like this team. I have yet to see you post ONE positive thing about them. (There might be one, but I haven't seen it). Don't give me that "Just being/keeping it real" BS. All the fans see that there are warts on the team and even talk about them, but the only "Fans" that I know of that post nothing but negatives have 1) some sort of underlying feeling of injustice that they were somehow wronged. Maybe didn't draft who they wanted, did do.... what ever or 2.) They are actually TROLLS just posing as fans. Now I doubt that you are a TROLL, but it is pretty obvious that you feel some sort of wrong was done to you and therefore all you see about the team is negative. If all you see is puss and dung about this team, you might want to consider being a fan of another team. You might actually find life is a little brighter and the sun might actually shine on your side of the street.

DexmanC
01-02-2010, 09:26 PM
You know, I have been following your posts for some time and I have doubts that you even like this team. I have yet to see you post ONE positive thing about them. (There might be one, but I haven't seen it). Don't give me that "Just being/keeping it real" BS. All the fans see that there are warts on the team and even talk about them, but the only "Fans" that I know of that post nothing but negatives have 1) some sort of underlying feeling of injustice that they were somehow wronged. Maybe didn't draft who they wanted, did do.... what ever or 2.) They are actually TROLLS just posing as fans. Now I doubt that you are a TROLL, but it is pretty obvious that you feel some sort of wrong was done to you and therefore all you see about the team is negative. If all you see is puss and dung about this team, you might want to consider being a fan of another team. You might actually find life is a little brighter and the sun might actually shine on your side of the street.

I'll take the upper road, and say..
Welcome to the board. Please post your opinion. Other, more
distinguished posters know quite well how I feel about this team.
State your mind, and let's not continue with the ad hominem attacks.

Again. Welcome

The Pencil Neck
01-02-2010, 09:51 PM
You know, I have been following your posts for some time and I have doubts that you even like this team. I have yet to see you post ONE positive thing about them. (There might be one, but I haven't seen it). Don't give me that "Just being/keeping it real" BS. All the fans see that there are warts on the team and even talk about them, but the only "Fans" that I know of that post nothing but negatives have 1) some sort of underlying feeling of injustice that they were somehow wronged. Maybe didn't draft who they wanted, did do.... what ever or 2.) They are actually TROLLS just posing as fans. Now I doubt that you are a TROLL, but it is pretty obvious that you feel some sort of wrong was done to you and therefore all you see about the team is negative. If all you see is puss and dung about this team, you might want to consider being a fan of another team. You might actually find life is a little brighter and the sun might actually shine on your side of the street.

That's really a slippery slope position to take.

I don't think that DexmanC or Gary or GP or Second Honeymoon or any of the soapers are trolls.

We all want what is best for this team. We just have a fundamental differences about what we think the best course is for this team and it's hard for us to believe that everyone doesn't believe the same things we believe.

I find it inconceivable that everyone isn't totally stoked about the future of this team. We have a great offense that can still be improved. We have a good defense that can still be improved. To me, our future as a team is really bright and I expect great things.

But, if I try really hard, I can see the point that the soapers are making. We've had the same record for 2 years running and there's nothing that says we'll ever get any better with our current staff, our team can play a half a game at an almost sublime level and then turn around and play a half at a level almost equally bad, we've never completely figured out the running game or the pass rush or the offensive line or the cornerback position. And what makes it even worse for them is that they see teams making radical improvement with new coaches and it seems like an easy fix would be to bring in a new coach, a more competent coach, to solve all our problems.

The soapers cannot believe how someone doesn't see the same problems and the same solutions that they see just as the pro-Smithiaks (like me) cannot believe how someone doesn't see the bright future we have before us.

It's not trolling, it's just disbelief. :worldpeace:

Lucky
01-02-2010, 09:56 PM
Telling each other what is and isn't a fan, and to get lost, is getting old. Post your opinions on the team, the coaches, life in general. But, let's stop attempting to define what a Texan fan is. Or isn't.

thunderkyss
01-02-2010, 10:05 PM
You know, I have been following your posts for some time and I have doubts that you even like this team. I have yet to see you post ONE positive thing about them.

I remember I started this season, determined to be pessimistic about everything. They went 5-3. I was talking about our slow starts after the Jets game & the Jags game. & I pointed to the lack of production in the second half of the 49ers game as an omen of things to come.

At the same time, I saw some things that I thought was positive, very positive, & I couldn't help but get positive, when we started our divisional gauntlet of games.

That's probably the biggest reason we did so badly.

So, I don't think that DexmanC believes this team is bad at all. He may very well believe what he says about Kubiak (even though he's fishing pretty deep to build his case), but he probably feels his doubting attitude is what will push the Texans over the top, & get us a win on Sunday.

DexmanC
01-02-2010, 10:35 PM
I remember I started this season, determined to be pessimistic about everything. They went 5-3. I was talking about our slow starts after the Jets game & the Jags game. & I pointed to the lack of production in the second half of the 49ers game as an omen of things to come.

At the same time, I saw some things that I thought was positive, very positive, & I couldn't help but get positive, when we started our divisional gauntlet of games.

That's probably the biggest reason we did so badly.

So, I don't think that DexmanC believes this team is bad at all. He may very well believe what he says about Kubiak (even though he's fishing pretty deep to build his case), but he probably feels his doubting attitude is what will push the Texans over the top, & get us a win on Sunday.

Whatever it takes to win. No more losing when the stars align for us
to take that "next step." That's the kind of game Sunday is, and they've
lost FIVE such games already.

ObsiWan
01-02-2010, 11:04 PM
I'll take the upper road, and say..
Welcome to the board. Please post your opinion. Other, more
distinguished posters know quite well how I feel about this team.
State your mind, and let's not continue with the ad hominem attacks.

Again. Welcome

One, each, rep for the use of ad hominem. You made me reference the Lexicon.
:fingergun:

edo783
01-02-2010, 11:31 PM
Telling each other what is and isn't a fan, and to get lost, is getting old. Post your opinions on the team, the coaches, life in general. But, let's stop attempting to define what a Texan fan is. Or isn't.

#1 - NEVER once said anything about what a fan is or isn't.

#2 - NEVER told anyone to get lost. Did suggest that he isn't having much fun watching this team and that he might have more watching another team.

I deeply resent your attempt to frame your post as such and expect you to retract it. I'm sorry I don't ascribe to your "Get rid of Kubiak at any cost" agenda, and I expect that you as a moderator show the ethics to apologize for trying to characterize me and ascribe things to me that are absolutely untrue.

houstonspartan
01-03-2010, 12:33 AM
#1 - NEVER once said anything about what a fan is or isn't.

#2 - NEVER told anyone to get lost. Did suggest that he isn't having much fun watching this team and that he might have more watching another team.

I deeply resent your attempt to frame your post as such and expect you to retract it. I'm sorry I don't ascribe to your "Get rid of Kubiak at any cost" agenda, and I expect that you as a moderator show the ethics to apologize for trying to characterize me and ascribe things to me that are absolutely untrue.

LOL. Dude, what are you smoking?

So, because someone didn't agree with you, you expect an apology? Don't count on it.

You say that anyone who doesn't want Kubiak isn't a real fan. Ok. I don't want him back. And, I've been a season ticket holder for five years and have dropped roughtly $10,000 on this team. What does that make me? How much have you spent, since you want to judge who is and is not a "real fan"?

Dex, up until a few months ago, was the BIGGEST Kubiak fan on the planet. Then, he looked deeper at Kube's record, and he saw the light. I think it's riduculus to judge someone based on a few posts.

No offense, but you sound really immature.

The search function is your friend.

houstonspartan
01-03-2010, 12:35 AM
I'll take the upper road, and say..
Welcome to the board. Please post your opinion. Other, more
distinguished posters know quite well how I feel about this team.
State your mind, and let's not continue with the ad hominem attacks.

Again. Welcome

Dex, good call. I was raised by my parents to ALWAYS take the high road.

ALWAYS.

edo783
01-03-2010, 12:53 AM
LOL. Dude, what are you smoking?

So, because someone didn't agree with you, you expect an apology? Don't count on it.

You say that anyone who doesn't want Kubiak isn't a real fan. Ok. I don't want him back. And, I've been a season ticket holder for five years and have dropped roughtly $10,000 on this team. What does that make me? How much have you spent, since you want to judge who is and is not a "real fan"?

Dex, up until a few months ago, was the BIGGEST Kubiak fan on the planet. Then, he looked deeper at Kube's record, and he saw the light. I think it's riduculus to judge someone based on a few posts.

No offense, but you sound really immature.

The search function is your friend.

Well, you seem to think it is OK for a moderator to just flat out lie about what you said. So, how does this fit for you.

1. You haven't spent 10K and never go to a game.

2. You said that anyone who doesn't want Kubes back isn't a fan.


See how that works, none of that is true, yet I just said it and some knucklhead may come along and see it and believe it, kind of like you just did that I said anything about what constitutes a fan (you might want to go back and read my post and not just Luckys). Lucky being a moderator is supposed to be the one stopping that sort of lying not being the one perpetrating it. You can say just about anything you want to me, but don't say I said something when I didn't. That flat pisses me off.

Lucky
01-03-2010, 09:04 AM
You know, I have been following your posts for some time and I have doubts that you even like this team. I have yet to see you post ONE positive thing about them....If all you see is puss and dung about this team, you might want to consider being a fan of another team.

#1 - NEVER once said anything about what a fan is or isn't.

#2 - NEVER told anyone to get lost. Did suggest that he isn't having much fun watching this team and that he might have more watching another team.

I deeply resent your attempt to frame your post as such and expect you to retract it.
Well, I'm not retracting anything. If you would have just kept your post to discussing the poster's opinions, I wouldn't have said squat. "You might consider being a fan of another team..." What I'm saying is that you might want to keep suggestions like this to yourself. BTW, you are not the only poster to suggest the "Love it or leave it" option. It didn't start with you, but I hope it ends here.

Also, Dexman was one of the biggest, if not the biggest, homers on this board prior to the Titan MNF game (not that there's anything wrong with that). If you had followed his posts for some time, you should have known that.

edo783
01-03-2010, 10:05 AM
Well, I'm not retracting anything. If you would have just kept your post to discussing the poster's opinions, I wouldn't have said squat. "You might consider being a fan of another team..." What I'm saying is that you might want to keep suggestions like this to yourself. BTW, you are not the only poster to suggest the "Love it or leave it" option. It didn't start with you, but I hope it ends here.

Also, Dexman was one of the biggest, if not the biggest, homers on this board prior to the Titan MNF game (not that there's anything wrong with that). If you had followed his posts for some time, you should have known that.

OK, I apologies then to Dexman if I miss read him (perhaps didn't pay attention to his posts long enough). However, I never said he should leave. I guess you missed a couple of small words, "IF" and "ALL". If ALL you see are puss and dung for this team.... It is only logical that if you see and write about nothing but negative, then something is wrong and that person would be happier following something else. If I suddenly followed the Cowpies that would be what I would write and I would be very unhappy to be following them and should therefore leave them for a team I would be happier following. I don't care what your thinking is, but mine is not a "Love or leave it" and I read a great deal of garbage spewed by certain people on this board and say nothing. And of course you NEVER tried to put words in my mouth that weren't there and as a MODERATOR with a very apparent agenda you don't have to do squat.

euro-Texan
01-03-2010, 07:07 PM
It seems like everyone is pretty glum about the "what could have beens". but I found an intersting stat by adding the point totals over the last few seasons. While we have yet to have our Texans play to OUR expectations, they will make a milestone Sunday (unless they loose by 49 points) by completing a season for the first time with a point differential in the black. I call that progress and moving in the right direction.

Point differential
2009 +55
2008 -28
2007 -05
2006 -99
2005 -171
2004 -30
2003 -125
2002 -143

Amended

infantrycak
01-03-2010, 07:32 PM
Welcome to the board.

Ed has been here from day one and if anything should be welcoming you not the other way around.

No offense, but you sound really immature.

The search function is your friend.

You might take your own advice on the search function. Ed has for 8 years shown far more maturity than you have in your time and frankly in more ways on and off the message board than you can imagine. Let him and Lucky have their discussion rather than popping off on something you know nothing about.

ziggy29
01-03-2010, 07:46 PM
Wow, this thread got seriously derailed.

Back to the original topic: In some ways it does feel like the Texans have steadily been a better team year after year over the last few years. It just barely, if at all, has resulted in the only stats that really matter: wins and losses.

So what's left? Penalties, turnovers, inability to hold a big lead, that sort of thing. To take some liberties with the old 80/20 rule, you can be good 80% of the time but if you self-destruct at the worst possible time in the other 20%, you'll be lucky to be average.

This team is, I think, clearly better than average (and even wins and losses will bear that out now). But the really good teams need more than raw statistical superiority. They have to avoid dumb penalties, losing the turnover battles and making mistakes at the worst possible times for them.

To me that's the next step for this team regardless of whether or not the Bengals let us down tonight. Because with those next steps (and the Colts not laying down against the Jets last week), this is clearly a playoff team.

(That says nothing about going 8-2 outside the division and 1-5 in it. Yes, it's a pretty tough division, but still...)