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View Full Version : Johnny Holland's future with the Texans?


TheRealJoker
12-30-2009, 04:06 PM
Johnny Holland has been one of the bright spots on the defensive coaching staff since he got here in 06:

http://www.houstontexans.com/team/coach.asp?coach_id=13

He now boasts the best young LB corps in the NFL which features 2 pro bowlers in Ryans and Cushing plus a solid starter in Diles and quality depth in Bentley and Adibi. Does anyone think we're in danger of losing him at the end of the season to a team in need of a DC?

If not this year, its only a matter of time until the coach of the best young LB corps (maybe just best LB unit period) gets a call to become an NFL DC...

Heck of a coach, the results of the talent he's developed speaks for itself. Sure Ryans and Cushing are blue chippers but Diles was a 7th round pick that he developed into a solid starter.

HJam72
12-30-2009, 04:31 PM
Make him our HC, LOL. :bravo:

infantrycak
12-30-2009, 04:40 PM
Make him our HC, LOL. :bravo:

Haven't you heard? - promoting from within never works. It is just the sign of a cheap owner.

Texan_Bill
12-30-2009, 04:42 PM
:hmmm: I think I've heard that a time or thirteen.

utahmark
12-30-2009, 04:43 PM
Johnny Holland has been one of the bright spots on the defensive coaching staff since he got here in 06:

http://www.houstontexans.com/team/coach.asp?coach_id=13

He now boasts the best young LB corps in the NFL which features 2 pro bowlers in Ryans and Cushing plus a solid starter in Diles and quality depth in Bentley and Adibi. Does anyone think we're in danger of losing him at the end of the season to a team in need of a DC?

If not this year, its only a matter of time until the coach of the best young LB corps (maybe just best LB unit period) gets a call to become an NFL DC...

Heck of a coach, the results of the talent he's developed speaks for itself. Sure Ryans and Cushing are blue chippers but Diles was a 7th round pick that he developed into a solid starter.

to be fair a lot of people thought he was a future starter for us when we drafted him. mel kiper and some others thought it was a great pick. not sure how someone everyone thinks can start in this league lasts till the seventh round though. i think that was more of a solid 7th round pick than anything else.

Second Honeymoon
12-30-2009, 04:46 PM
Haven't you heard? - promoting from within never works. It is just the sign of a cheap owner.

it hasn't worked yet, icak. how long should we give Gary before we make a much needed change? another year? another four years? since when did you become such a kubiak apologist? when does the excuse farming stop?

this was our year and kubiak and his gee shucks act blew it....again. people act like changing things is gonna require this huge sea change. the time is now for a change. we have had the talent all along. we just have substandard coaching, game preparation and inspiration/leadership. you can say 'they are professional they should inspire themselves' but we all know that doesn't hold water. coaching is the single most important factor to a team's success other than a decent QB. we need someone with some more fire and someone who isn't such a flatlining good ole boy.

i bet if the guy was from the Northeast or West Coast, people would be lining up to fire him...but because he is from Houston and a 'hero' he gets this carebear treatment. I aint buying it.

kubiak is what he has shown himself to be. a poor to mediocre head coach and a good offensive coordinator. no amount of pandering or excuse making is going to change that. even if he salvages 9-7 this year, he is a .500 coach. is that worth a 5th year? if so, why? because you say so?

is everything gonna magically change next year? you would have thought some of us would have learned that you are what you are. how did making excuses and 'wait till next year' work for the Carr apologists? it didn't...

...so why is it going to work next year. and for the record, McNair has been cheap when it comes to head coaching and when it comes to top free agents. the numbers speak for themselves. sorry to burst your bubble.

the guy has done a good job turning the offense around but you can't play scared like he does and expect to win. you also can't wait till your season is basically over before you start playing good football...oh and mix in a win against a good team every once in a while. beating losing teams is good for 8-8 and that is about it. kubiak gets outcoached constantly and its getting old. you may just be too blind to see or so drunk on the koolaid that you can't see the forest through the trees. dunno.

infantrycak
12-30-2009, 04:51 PM
it hasn't worked yet, icak. how long should we give Gary before we make a much needed change? another year? another four years? since when did you become such a kubiak apologist? when does the excuse farming stop?

Really it hasn't? Last I checked Frank Bush's D was dramatically better than Smith's and is sending 3 guys to the Pro Bowl.

and for the record, McNair has been cheap when it comes to head coaching and when it comes to top free agents. the numbers speak for themselves. sorry to burst your bubble.

Maybe if you say it enough times it will become true. McNair has had top third payrolls throughout the existence of the Texans. Sorry to burst your rant.

ObsiWan
12-30-2009, 04:53 PM
Haven't you heard? - promoting from within never works. It is just the sign of a cheap owner.

signed, the Indy Colts.

Second Honeymoon
12-30-2009, 04:55 PM
Really it hasn't? Last I checked Frank Bush's D was dramatically better than Smith's and is sending 3 guys to the Pro Bowl.



Maybe if you say it enough times it will become true. McNair has had top third payrolls throughout the existence of the Texans. Sorry to burst your rant.

we are talking about coaching icak. nothing burst.

utahmark
12-30-2009, 04:58 PM
it hasn't worked yet, icak. how long should we give Gary before we make a much needed change? another year? another four years? since when did you become such a kubiak apologist? when does the excuse farming stop?

this was our year and kubiak and his gee shucks act blew it....again. people act like changing things is gonna require this huge sea change. the time is now for a change. we have had the talent all along. we just have substandard coaching, game preparation and inspiration/leadership. you can say 'they are professional they should inspire themselves' but we all know that doesn't hold water. coaching is the single most important factor to a team's success other than a decent QB. we need someone with some more fire and someone who isn't such a flatlining good ole boy.

i bet if the guy was from the Northeast or West Coast, people would be lining up to fire him...but because he is from Houston and a 'hero' he gets this carebear treatment. I aint buying it.

kubiak is what he has shown himself to be. a poor to mediocre head coach and a good offensive coordinator. no amount of pandering or excuse making is going to change that. even if he salvages 9-7 this year, he is a .500 coach. is that worth a 5th year? if so, why? because you say so?

is everything gonna magically change next year? you would have thought some of us would have learned that you are what you are. how did making excuses and 'wait till next year' work for the Carr apologists? it didn't...

...so why is it going to work next year. and for the record, McNair has been cheap when it comes to head coaching and when it comes to top free agents. the numbers speak for themselves. sorry to burst your bubble.

the guy has done a good job turning the offense around but you can't play scared like he does and expect to win. you also can't wait till your season is basically over before you start playing good football...oh and mix in a win against a good team every once in a while. beating losing teams is good for 8-8 and that is about it. kubiak gets outcoached constantly and its getting old. you may just be too blind to see or so drunk on the koolaid that you can't see the forest through the trees. dunno.

great, another fire kubiak thread emerges.

TheRealJoker
12-30-2009, 05:05 PM
to be fair a lot of people thought he was a future starter for us when we drafted him. mel kiper and some others thought it was a great pick. not sure how someone everyone thinks can start in this league lasts till the seventh round though. i think that was more of a solid 7th round pick than anything else.

You mean the homers on this forum thought that a 7th round pick would start for us? Just like they do with "insert undrafted rookie who did well at OTAs"? Anytime you draft someone in the 7th round its a success if they stick with your team. Those are flyer players.

I think Johnny Holland should get a bit more credit for developing a 7th round pick into a starter than to say... it was just a solid 7th round pick. No team is drafting a 7th rounder and expecting that player to start. They just hope the player can contribute on ST and if they're a QB maybe they'll get good at holding a clipboard.

infantrycak
12-30-2009, 05:06 PM
we are talking about coaching icak. nothing burst.

What was my comment? Was it about Kubiak? Nope. It was about Bush who has done a good job this year.

And yes payroll does burst your repeated rants on McNair being cheap. He is spending money with the big boys. They have just had a number of poor high dollar decisions.

TheRealJoker
12-30-2009, 05:07 PM
*rant*

There's plenty of other threads to talk about Kubiak. This thread is about one of our better position coaches who might be up for a promotion soon.

barrett
12-30-2009, 05:11 PM
I hate this time of year. I hate the "when will we loose Johnny Holland thread." I am in complete and total denial.

Never. ever. He'll be our Howard Mudd / Dick LeBeau / Jim Johnson. He'll be 70. Demeco and CUshing will play together for 15 more years. Schaub will play into his 40's. Right? Right!?

utahmark
12-30-2009, 05:11 PM
You mean the homers on this forum thought that a 7th round pick would start for us? Just like they do with "insert undrafted rookie who did well at OTAs"? Anytime you draft someone in the 7th round its a success if they stick with your team. Those are flyer players.

I think Johnny Holland should get a bit more credit for developing a 7th round pick into a starter than to say... it was just a solid 7th round pick. No team is drafting a 7th rounder and expecting that player to start. They just hope the player can contribute on ST and if they're a QB maybe they'll get good at holding a clipboard.

no! thats not what i mean. i said what i meant in my original post. mel kiper said he would be a future starter for us. i also read several other so called "experts" who said it was a great pick. i don't watch college football so when we draft a player i start collecting information on them. the information i got about diles was that he had a very good chance of being a starter or at least having a strong impact for this team. i usually don't read that about 7th rounders so it kind of stuck.

TheRealJoker
12-30-2009, 05:13 PM
no! thats not what i mean. i said what i meant in my original post. mel kiper said he would be a future starter for us. i also read several other so called "experts" who said it was a great pick. i don't watch college football so when we draft a player i start collecting information on them. the information i got about diles was that he has a very good chance of being a starter or at least have a strong impact for this team. i usually don't read that about 7th rounders so it kind of stuck.

Regardless, just because pundits claim its a good pick doesn't make it so... Holland has more to do with his development than us just being lucky he fell to the 7th round.

utahmark
12-30-2009, 05:16 PM
and second honeymoon i would appreciate it if you did'nt cuss me out when you give me rep. it really just shows your immaturity.

m5kwatts
12-30-2009, 05:16 PM
Johnny Holland has been one of the bright spots on the defensive coaching staff since he got here in 06:

http://www.houstontexans.com/team/coach.asp?coach_id=13

He now boasts the best young LB corps in the NFL which features 2 pro bowlers in Ryans and Cushing plus a solid starter in Diles and quality depth in Bentley and Adibi. Does anyone think we're in danger of losing him at the end of the season to a team in need of a DC?

If not this year, its only a matter of time until the coach of the best young LB corps (maybe just best LB unit period) gets a call to become an NFL DC...

Heck of a coach, the results of the talent he's developed speaks for itself. Sure Ryans and Cushing are blue chippers but Diles was a 7th round pick that he developed into a solid starter.

Ryans and Cushing are 1st round blue chip prospects but how many guys with the same pedigree never pan out? Holland deserves big time credit for bringing those guys to where they're at. I bet he gets a lot of sniffs and possibly even an interview for a DC job or two.

utahmark
12-30-2009, 05:18 PM
Ryans and Cushing are 1st round blue chip prospects but how many guys with the same pedigree never pan out? Holland deserves big time credit for bringing those guys to where they're at. I bet he gets a lot of sniffs and possibly even an interview for a DC job or two.

i do agree. i was just adding to the conversation with my diles "take".

Second Honeymoon
12-30-2009, 05:42 PM
and second honeymoon i would appreciate it if you did'nt cuss me out when you give me rep. it really just shows your immaturity.

i didn't cuss you out, you little baby. go run to the mods, little one.

infantrycak
12-30-2009, 05:46 PM
i didn't cuss you out, you little baby. go run to the mods, little one.

Really?

try ****ing yourself

Looks like an honesty issue.

GlassHalfFull
12-30-2009, 05:52 PM
Johnny Holland has been one of the bright spots on the defensive coaching staff since he got here in 06:

http://www.houstontexans.com/team/coach.asp?coach_id=13

He now boasts the best young LB corps in the NFL which features 2 pro bowlers in Ryans and Cushing plus a solid starter in Diles and quality depth in Bentley and Adibi. Does anyone think we're in danger of losing him at the end of the season to a team in need of a DC?

If not this year, its only a matter of time until the coach of the best young LB corps (maybe just best LB unit period) gets a call to become an NFL DC...

Heck of a coach, the results of the talent he's developed speaks for itself. Sure Ryans and Cushing are blue chippers but Diles was a 7th round pick that he developed into a solid starter.

Johnny Holland is a class act and I hope we hang on to him for a long time.

steelbtexan
12-30-2009, 05:53 PM
Haven't you heard? - promoting from within never works. It is just the sign of a cheap owner.

Not interviewing anybody else before hiring from within is stupid.

That is on the GM.

Texan_Bill
12-30-2009, 05:54 PM
Johnny Holland is a class act and I hope we hang on to him for a long time.

Aggie.

m5kwatts
12-30-2009, 05:58 PM
i do agree. i was just adding to the conversation with my diles "take".

I remember reading the same stuff you read about how he could step in and start, pundits said his 5'11" height made him a 7th rounder and if he was 3 inches taller he'd have gone 3-5 rounds higher... they did say this but I think it was more of a reflection of the lack of LB'cker quality/depth we had at the time and the fact that they didn't view Clark or Greenwood as NFL starting material. I remember though after Diles rookie year Kubiak was lamenting the fact he didn't play him more. Probably cause we watched Greenwood make 0 impact all season and we coulda played better defense with Diles out there.

More to the point, regardless of these guys' perceived value when they got here, making them the players they are is what's important and Holland is boasting the baddest unit in the NFL.

HJam72
12-30-2009, 06:04 PM
I didn't mean to start all this bickering. I really didn't. :mcnugget:

Hahahaha!

Don't we all cuss at other posters when we give them rep? :thinking:

Runner
12-30-2009, 06:07 PM
If Johnny Holland hadn't lobbied for Ryans over Richard Smith's head, Ryans wouldn't be here. Score one for Holland and Kubiak.

infantrycak
12-30-2009, 06:10 PM
Not interviewing anybody else before hiring from within is stupid.

That is on the GM.

Which would be a cute comment if true. We had threads around here about how long it was taking them to decide and also on the New Orleans DC turning them down for an interview.

GlassHalfFull
12-30-2009, 06:18 PM
I didn't mean to start all this bickering. I really didn't. :mcnugget:

Hahahaha!

Don't we all cuss at other posters when we give them rep? :thinking:

That is ok, Bill is always mean to me. Not your fault.

Texan_Bill
12-30-2009, 06:22 PM
That is ok, Bill is always mean to me. Not your fault.

Mean to you??? You're one of my favorite fellow Blue Crewers!! :smooch:

barrett
12-30-2009, 06:25 PM
Not interviewing anybody else before hiring from within is stupid.

That is on the GM.

Totally. Rick Smith is an iidiot. Frank Bush was a HUGE mistake. God Rick, your list of mistakes is just absurd!

TexanFan23
12-30-2009, 08:51 PM
Aggie.

:lol:

Second Honeymoon
12-30-2009, 10:01 PM
Really?



Looks like an honesty issue.

cmon now. that isn't cussing him out. it is called responding in kind to some lame negative rep..but whatever floats your boat. youre a mod, whatever you say just don't taze me, bro.

4Texans
12-31-2009, 11:30 AM
Aggie.

Could put him in the mix for going back to the Aggies and becoming their DC since they have an opening now.

Texan_Bill
12-31-2009, 11:31 AM
Could put him in the mix for going back to the Aggies and becoming their DC since they have an opening now.

I'd be happy either way, really.

DeMarCushPoll
12-31-2009, 11:51 AM
it hasn't worked yet, icak. how long should we give Gary before we make a much needed change? another year? another four years? since when did you become such a kubiak apologist? when does the excuse farming stop?

this was our year and kubiak and his gee shucks act blew it....again. people act like changing things is gonna require this huge sea change. the time is now for a change. we have had the talent all along. we just have substandard coaching, game preparation and inspiration/leadership. you can say 'they are professional they should inspire themselves' but we all know that doesn't hold water. coaching is the single most important factor to a team's success other than a decent QB. we need someone with some more fire and someone who isn't such a flatlining good ole boy.

i bet if the guy was from the Northeast or West Coast, people would be lining up to fire him...but because he is from Houston and a 'hero' he gets this carebear treatment. I aint buying it.

kubiak is what he has shown himself to be. a poor to mediocre head coach and a good offensive coordinator. no amount of pandering or excuse making is going to change that. even if he salvages 9-7 this year, he is a .500 coach. is that worth a 5th year? if so, why? because you say so?

is everything gonna magically change next year? you would have thought some of us would have learned that you are what you are. how did making excuses and 'wait till next year' work for the Carr apologists? it didn't...

...so why is it going to work next year. and for the record, McNair has been cheap when it comes to head coaching and when it comes to top free agents. the numbers speak for themselves. sorry to burst your bubble.

the guy has done a good job turning the offense around but you can't play scared like he does and expect to win. you also can't wait till your season is basically over before you start playing good football...oh and mix in a win against a good team every once in a while. beating losing teams is good for 8-8 and that is about it. kubiak gets outcoached constantly and its getting old. you may just be too blind to see or so drunk on the koolaid that you can't see the forest through the trees. dunno.

This was our year for what, our first winning season and a shot at the playoffs? I'm pretty sure that's where we are. Going into this season, did you expect this team to be 12-3 at this point? If you did then you had unrealistic expectations IMO.

Second Honeymoon
12-31-2009, 07:25 PM
This was our year for what, our first winning season and a shot at the playoffs? I'm pretty sure that's where we are. Going into this season, did you expect this team to be 12-3 at this point? If you did then you had unrealistic expectations IMO.

if you call a shot at the playoffs what we have, so be it. that is your opinion. i myself, feel that the organization blew it by its slow start and embarassing divisional record. we have a snowballs chance in hell at the playoffs. is it a chance? sure, but to act like we are in the playoff hunt or if 9-7 is something to not even be questioned is just a symptom of low expectation and homering.

sorry and happy new years.

fwiw - i hope we make the playoffs but if we don't we can lay the blame squarely at the flatlining and scaredy-cat coach who can't even watch big plays because he is so scared of failure.

steelbtexan
12-31-2009, 08:10 PM
Which would be a cute comment if true. We had threads around here about how long it was taking them to decide and also on the New Orleans DC turning them down for an interview.

I'm not saying that Bush shouldn't have been hired. In fact I was for hiring Bush but not interviewing other defensive minds about what they would do to control Manning and using those ideas that Kubes liked was short sighted.IMHO

Who did they interview other than Bush?

steelbtexan
12-31-2009, 08:15 PM
Totally. Rick Smith is an iidiot. Frank Bush was a HUGE mistake. God Rick, your list of mistakes is just absurd!

Read above post

Barrett I just think that they should've used the interview process to their advantage.

Stealing good ideas from other companies is never a bad thing.

infantrycak
12-31-2009, 08:26 PM
I'm not saying that Bush shouldn't have been hired. In fact I was for hiring Bush but not interviewing other defensive minds about what they would do to control Manning and using those ideas that Kubes liked was short sighted.IMHO

Who did they interview other than Bush?

We don't know. What we know is they at least attempted to interview/considered other folks from the reports on the New Orleans' guy turning us down and interviewing Rod Marinelli. We also know they waited a considerable time period. Beyond that, we just don't know.

steelbtexan
12-31-2009, 08:37 PM
Do you see why I wanted them to interview other people even if the intended to hire Bush from the begining?

ObsiWan
12-31-2009, 08:42 PM
Do you see why I wanted them to interview other people even if the intended to hire Bush from the begining?

No. If you know who you want for a given job, why waste other people's time when you have no earthly intention of making them an offer?

infantrycak
12-31-2009, 08:49 PM
Do you see why I wanted them to interview other people even if the intended to hire Bush from the begining?

(1) I don't know where you get the belief they didn't. People assume a lot around here. (2) I have been satisfied with the results after the first three games this year. Sure I generally like the idea of looking at all the possibilities but I don't think we know that they didn't and things have turned around nicely on D.

Goldensilence
01-01-2010, 01:59 PM
Really it hasn't? Last I checked Frank Bush's D was dramatically better than Smith's and is sending 3 guys to the Pro Bowl.



Maybe if you say it enough times it will become true. McNair has had top third payrolls throughout the existence of the Texans. Sorry to burst your rant.

Even Dick Smith's D had 2 pro bowlers Demeco, Mario and an alternate in Will Demps one year. I think most of us expected Cushing to be solid, but he's been ridiculously good and has really been the key factor in turning around the defense.

Agree on the payroll for the team on the field. Just some bad high price FA decisions and IMO a few bad high draft picks.

Which would be a cute comment if true. We had threads around here about how long it was taking them to decide and also on the New Orleans DC turning them down for an interview.

Problem is IMO they just looked like they wanted to hire out of staff. From the reports I remember they interviewed Marinelli as a DL coach, who subsequently took the same position with back with Lovie Smith in Chicago. They were denied an interview with Jerry Gray DB coach in Washington. From what I recall they declined to even interview Gregg Williams.

I'm not saying that Bush shouldn't have been hired. In fact I was for hiring Bush but not interviewing other defensive minds about what they would do to control Manning and using those ideas that Kubes liked was short sighted.IMHO

Who did they interview other than Bush?

See post above. That is what I recall the list looking like. I wasn't really excited about hiring Bush initially. I mean hiring in staff from one of the worst DC in the league didn't look like a bight idea.

I think it's worked out well, but I think one of the biggest things was firing Jon Hoke from the secondary and hiring Gibbs. Still mixed on Kollar.


Regarding Holland. I think he's a good coach, but it's been hard to tell the job he's done with the LB corps because of past coaching ineptitude in the past. Generally you don't get hired from bad staffs. I'd also hope your LB corps looks good considering as pointed out, you have two blue chippers. I do give him credit for having them playing possibly better than any two in the league atm though.

Let's be honest the only person from the staff that has been considered for another coaching position is Mike Sherman who took the job at A&M. Other then that zero. Zilch. None of them.

Porky
01-01-2010, 03:02 PM
Why get all fancy. I can sum up Johnny Holland succintly - Good player, great coach, better person.

I hope he is a lifer although I can't blame him if he bolts for greener pastures.