PDA

View Full Version : Just a bit of reality: Our winning games


silvrhand
12-29-2009, 12:19 AM
Have all come against losing record teams except for one, the bengals which aren't looking so good of late either.

Sun. 20 @ Titans 12:00 PM W 34-31
Sun. 4 RAIDERS 12:00 PM W 29-6
Sun. 18 @ Bengals 12:00 PM W 28-17
Sun. 25 49ERS 12:00 PM W 24-21
Sun. 1 @ Bills W 31-10
Sun. 13 SEAHAWKS W 34-7
Sun. 20 @ Rams W 16-13
Sun. 27 @ Dolphins W 27-20

So in reality our schedule was much easier this year, and we had more quality wins over real teams last year than we did this year. I don't understand how we can be happy with having an easy schedule and "feeling" like we are turning the corner.

A win is a win but I would have liked to see a win over some of the quality teams we did play this year.

Joe Texan
12-29-2009, 12:36 AM
take a shower man

HJam72
12-29-2009, 12:42 AM
WE are part of why those teams have losing records.

Hervoyel
12-29-2009, 12:45 AM
It is what it is. I don't see how people can look at this and be happy but if they are then so be it. It doesn't really matter what we think of how 2009 went down. 2010 will be a continuation of what we have been doing so it's best to just get yourself a big old 64 oz cup and pour yourself a tall glass of Battle Red Kool-Aid.

Nothing is going to change this year so why keep beating the drum. We all know the Texans didn't beat anybody worth a damn this year. No need to keep repeating it.

silvrhand
12-29-2009, 12:47 AM
take a shower man

And what stick my head in the sand like last weeks game was the biggest game of this franchise's history?

Our winning games haven't been good either, but now with our record, and not really looking at any of how we won our games I'm concerned that next year we'll not be any better. We need something that can make this team get some tenacity or something. We can't seem to figure out how to be consistent winners. I'm sorry but to me this is a something that has to come from the top down, owner, GM, coach, players.

sportfan73
12-29-2009, 12:49 AM
WE are part of why those teams have losing records.

don't bring logic into the conversation man, that's just crazy talk to the pessimists. We haven't lost to a bad team, its possible none of our losses will have come to sub .500 teams after this weekend.

Norg
12-29-2009, 12:52 AM
We beat the radiers badly


who then beat philly


Philly could get the NUmber 2 seed in the NFC


Are the radiers really a bad team

DOes a 0-1 Tenn team count has a losing team at the time ??????

Norg
12-29-2009, 12:54 AM
and who did we beat last year with a winning record ?????


i remember going 0-4 beating some scrub teams

getting killed by Indy balty beating the browns then making a late season run


WE did beat TENN but hey there in our divison and like i said other then teh colts divison games can go either way LOL

Goldensilence
12-29-2009, 02:21 AM
WE are part of why those teams have losing records.

We're also part of why teams have winning records. Your point?

Goldensilence
12-29-2009, 02:23 AM
don't bring logic into the conversation man, that's just crazy talk to the pessimists. We haven't lost to a bad team, its possible none of our losses will have come to sub .500 teams after this weekend.

Right. Only to get beat by teams with over .500 records or .500 records. Wonderful. If only our entire season consisted of at or below .500 teams we'd be unbeaten.

sportfan73
12-29-2009, 03:07 AM
we've taken care of business against teams we were clearly better than. We've competed in games against teams that were better than us, and we were a few good breaks away from having a playoff spot wrapped up. People just don't understand variance, we could potentially be as good as 13-2 right now, and I don't see how we could be any worse than 8-7.

Thorn
12-29-2009, 07:00 AM
BFD. A win is a win is a win, just like a loss is a loss.

BIG TORO
12-29-2009, 07:13 AM
Reality is we are still alive on our last game of the season and there are alot of teams who are not!!!! That is reality!

El Tejano
12-29-2009, 07:31 AM
We beat the radiers badly


who then beat philly


Philly could get the NUmber 2 seed in the NFC


Are the radiers really a bad team

DOes a 0-1 Tenn team count has a losing team at the time ??????

The Raiders also beat Pittsburgh and Denver. Miami is no push over either. San Fransisco also beat Arizona.

But what if we beat New England? I'm sure some are going to come on here and say because New England didn't have anything to play for.

El Tejano
12-29-2009, 07:35 AM
Earlier I heard a Baltimore fan on Sirius telling Pittsburgh fans to be quiet because Pittsburgh was complaining about how Indy rested their players and win over the Jets would've put them in good standing right now. His point was that if you win the games you are supposed to win you will be in a better position for the playoffs. Winning the games we were supposed to win has put us where we are right now - Playing Important Games in the last two weeks of the season.

Would you have felt better if we lost one of those games?

Fred
12-29-2009, 07:46 AM
We usually beat teams with losing records and lose to teams with winning records? SHA-ZAM!!! Who would have thought?

People complain we have only beat 1 team with a winning record. Look - if we beat the Titans twice, the Jags twice, and the Jets; but lose to the Bengals then we would be at 11-4 (11-5 after losing to the winning Pats) and we would have zero wins against winning teams. I would be OK with that.

On the other hand, we could have lost to Titans twice, Jags twice, Jets, and Dolphins (keeping the loss to the Bengals) and be 5-11 with no losses to losing teams. So our W or L tips a 6 game spread in this parlor game. We could be 11-5 with no good wins or 5-11 with no bad losses. If you want to be a playoff team you need to rise above the 500 club and beat Jags etc.

Fred
12-29-2009, 07:49 AM
Winning the games we were supposed to win has put us where we are right now - Playing Important Games in the last two weeks of the season.

Would you have felt better if we lost one of those games?

No, we should have beaten Jax twice. Then we would have the #5 seed clinched and we would be resting our starters this week.

Would you have felt worse if we won those games?

HJam72
12-29-2009, 09:52 AM
We are 1-5 in our division. That's on Kubiak....and that's why we're not a top 3 team in our conference. Those divisional games MATTER.

infantrycak
12-29-2009, 10:05 AM
We are 1-5 in our division. That's on Kubiak....and that's why we're not a top 3 team in our conference. Those divisional games MATTER.

Really, all on Kubiak? Sure he affected those games as well, but:

Did Kubiak coach the team not to cover MJD?
Did Kubiak cause the bogus flag on Walter?
Did Kubiak coach veteran Brown to not hold the ball at the goal line?
Did Kubiak coach the refs to not see the Indy player touching the ball while out of bounds?
Did Kubiak coach Kris Brown to miss two field goals in one game?

I'm not absolving Kubiak by any means but there were a lot of things outside of his control that led to 1-5 as well.

HJam72
12-29-2009, 10:43 AM
Really, all on Kubiak? Sure he affected those games as well, but:

Did Kubiak coach the team not to cover MJD? They should've had a legit SS sooner.
Did Kubiak cause the bogus flag on Walter? This is just one play.
Did Kubiak coach veteran Brown to not hold the ball at the goal line? Possibly, LOL; but, he had him on the team and in the game.
Did Kubiak coach the refs to not see the Indy player touching the ball while out of bounds? Again, this is one play, but maybe, LOL.
Did Kubiak coach Kris Brown to miss two field goals in one game? Brown is still on this team and shouldn't be. Read my sig. I admit I didn't know his percentages were so crappy, but I'm just a fan. A HC should've seen that and replaced him several years ago.

I'm not absolving Kubiak by any means but there were a lot of things outside of his control that led to 1-5 as well. 1-5 is too ridiculously bad for excuses. If we only played our division opponents in the regular season, we'd be having a Dom Caper's last year type season right now. We player non-divisional teams better...and non-conference teams better than that. Seems that teams who played us most often are on to us. Could we have built a team that is it's own division's patsy? It sure looks that way.

Sorry, I didn't feel like cutting your quote into half a dozen little pieces. I just added my answers.

ArlingtonTexan
12-29-2009, 10:51 AM
Winning games that you should win is the first half of what it takes to be successful (ask this year's Steeler's about that). Most teams are not going win more against good team than not, but you need to hold your own and not go 1-6. Splitting places a team in the playoffs feeling like you have a chance against anyone.

El Tejano
12-29-2009, 11:46 AM
No, we should have beaten Jax twice. Then we would have the #5 seed clinched and we would be resting our starters this week.

Would you have felt worse if we won those games?

After giving up 200 yards rushing a game in the first two games and then having to come play against MJD, I didn't think we should've won that game. Then after losing 3 in a row and seeing our playoffs hopes dim, plus our starting QB playing with injury and still not having a running game, I didn't think it would be an easy win. With the odds against us and playing a division foe on the road, nah I really didn't think we were going to win.

Being a real fan, of course I wouldn't have felt worse. It would've made life more easy but we are who are record says we are and that's on the outside looking in. The reason why we still have a chance though is because we beat the majority of who we should've beat.

The fact that we could've beat some of the teams we lost to is still reason to hope for a spot in the playoffs.

thunderkyss
12-29-2009, 01:16 PM
Last year, a team went 11-5 & didn't get into the play-offs. Indianapolis finished with 12 wins, & didn't win the division. & truth be told if the conference played like it has this year, we would have been, "playing for a play-off spot this late in the season" last year.

Not really, since there was no way we could be any better than 8-8 the final week of the year. But from week 12 through week 16, we would have been "contending"

So making the play-offs has a lot more to do with what the other teams around the league are doing. Unless you thought the Texans were going to win 11 games, "play-offs or bust" just wasn't very reasonable

Last year, we had 2 Pro Bowl performers on the field. OD, & AJ. This year, we should be able to add Matt Schaub. The only way he doesn't get to the Pro Bowl is if he gets robbed.

Defensivley we were a joke..

Our offensive numbers have improved, despite a lack of a run game, & our defense is playing really good football.

I don't understand how anyone cannot see the improvement on this team.


I understand the W-L is an issue. I understand Kubiak is part of that issue. But I think he's done such a good job overall, that we are headed in the right direction, & I want to continue to go in that direction.

HOU-TEX
12-29-2009, 02:09 PM
Last year, a team went 11-5 & didn't get into the play-offs. Indianapolis finished with 12 wins, & didn't win the division. & truth be told if the conference played like it has this year, we would have been, "playing for a play-off spot this late in the season" last year.

Not really, since there was no way we could be any better than 8-8 the final week of the year. But from week 12 through week 16, we would have been "contending"

So making the play-offs has a lot more to do with what the other teams around the league are doing. Unless you thought the Texans were going to win 11 games, "play-offs or bust" just wasn't very reasonable

Last year, we had 2 Pro Bowl performers on the field. OD, & AJ. This year, we should be able to add Matt Schaub. The only way he doesn't get to the Pro Bowl is if he gets robbed.

Defensivley we were a joke..

Our offensive numbers have improved, despite a lack of a run game, & our defense is playing really good football.

I don't understand how anyone cannot see the improvement on this team.


I understand the W-L is an issue. I understand Kubiak is part of that issue. But I think he's done such a good job overall, that we are headed in the right direction, & I want to continue to go in that direction.

Mario

silvrhand
12-29-2009, 04:56 PM
I understand the W-L is an issue. I understand Kubiak is part of that issue. But I think he's done such a good job overall, that we are headed in the right direction, & I want to continue to go in that direction.

That's my problem I continue to see coaching issues that make me think we aren't going to get any better next year. We lack tenacity and toughness which I think you have to have to be a contender.

I dunno I feel we let this year slip away cause of players not making plays, and coaches not reluctant to go to their go to guys.

spurstexanstros
12-29-2009, 05:16 PM
Have all come against losing record teams except for one, the bengals which aren't looking so good of late either.

Sun. 20 @ Titans 12:00 PM W 34-31
Sun. 4 RAIDERS 12:00 PM W 29-6
Sun. 18 @ Bengals 12:00 PM W 28-17
Sun. 25 49ERS 12:00 PM W 24-21
Sun. 1 @ Bills W 31-10
Sun. 13 SEAHAWKS W 34-7
Sun. 20 @ Rams W 16-13
Sun. 27 @ Dolphins W 27-20

So in reality our schedule was much easier this year, and we had more quality wins over real teams last year than we did this year. I don't understand how we can be happy with having an easy schedule and "feeling" like we are turning the corner.

A win is a win but I would have liked to see a win over some of the quality teams we did play this year.

Hmmmmmm I wonder if this thread would have been posted in the Capers era...you remember when we just celebrated wins period.....back when wins were few and far between.

Heck I remember the good ole days to the legendary Vinny begging for win streaks in his annual "its time for a #$@$#$# win streak thread"

Now we are discussing the quality of wins and whining about how they should have come against better opponents... it seems like our expecatations have changed...

My question is why does the head coach and GM not get any credit for us not having a loosing season in three years but instead get cries for their heads on a platter....it is all absurd.

Fred
12-29-2009, 05:23 PM
After giving up 200 yards rushing a game in the first two games and then having to come play against MJD, I didn't think we should've won that game. Then after losing 3 in a row and seeing our playoffs hopes dim, plus our starting QB playing with injury and still not having a running game, I didn't think it would be an easy win. With the odds against us and playing a division foe on the road, nah I really didn't think we were going to win.

Being a real fan, of course I wouldn't have felt worse. It would've made life more easy but we are who are record says we are and that's on the outside looking in. The reason why we still have a chance though is because we beat the majority of who we should've beat.

The fact that we could've beat some of the teams we lost to is still reason to hope for a spot in the playoffs.

Other than the games against us, Jax is a 5-8 team (would be 5-10 if we beat them). If you don't think we should beat a team that is 5-8 against the rest of league then you think the Texans are a pretty sorry lot.


... making the play-offs has a lot more to do with what the other teams around the league are doing. Unless you thought the Texans were going to win 11 games, "play-offs or bust" just wasn't very reasonable

Last year, we had 2 Pro Bowl performers on the field. OD, & AJ. This year, we should be able to add Matt Schaub. The only way he doesn't get to the Pro Bowl is if he gets robbed.

Defensivley we were a joke..

Our offensive numbers have improved, despite a lack of a run game, & our defense is playing really good football.

I don't understand how anyone cannot see the improvement on this team.

I understand the W-L is an issue. I understand Kubiak is part of that issue. But I think he's done such a good job overall, that we are headed in the right direction, & I want to continue to go in that direction.

The problem people have with Kubiak is that they DO see the improvement on this team. The offense is better, the defense is better (due in part to - a coaching change).

But when the team is not prepared to play, gets a lot of stupid penalties, runs idiotic play calls, constantly fumbles, can't convert first downs inside the 5 into TDs, can't ever make the plays to win the game late, can't play consistent for more than 28 minutes a game - people refer to that as "bad coaching". I know some say "did Kubiak tell Brown to fumble?" well no (although it sure looked like he was under orders to throw a interception) and if it happens once or twice it's on the player. When you (seemingly) lead the league in all these inept categories it's on the coach.

We can see that the team is good enough that with only average ineptness they would be 11-5 or better. The fact that we DO see the improvement is WHY we are frustrated with Kubiak. Of course, there is a good argument that he had a hand in bringing in the players responsible for the improvement. I'd be happy to keep him in the front office as Rick Smith's assistant. I want to go in the direction of the team living up to it's potential instead of having a coach holding them back.

euro-Texan
12-29-2009, 06:33 PM
Hey, we are finally beating the teams we are supposed to. One more step in the right direction.

DexmanC
12-29-2009, 06:47 PM
Hmmmmmm I wonder if this thread would have been posted in the Capers era...you remember when we just celebrated wins period.....back when wins were few and far between.

Heck I remember the good ole days to the legendary Vinny begging for win streaks in his annual "its time for a #$@$#$# win streak thread"

Now we are discussing the quality of wins and whining about how they should have come against better opponents... it seems like our expecatations have changed...

My question is why does the head coach and GM not get any credit for us not having a loosing season in three years but instead get cries for their heads on a platter....it is all absurd.

As long as we keep comparing ourselves to the suckitude of the Capers
Era, we'll never get to "Championship Caliber."

In the NFL, you don't win Superbowls by "accident." You either consider
yourself elite, or you go home. Let's take a look at our Texans since Kubiak
got here, and see where our expectations have been set.

2006 Season:
Record: 6-10
Outlook: Whew. At least we don't suck as bad as the Capers/Casserly
era. We even beat the Colts on Christmas Eve! Whoopie-doo!!!

2007 Season:
Record: 8-8
Outlook: Lookie here!! Our first NON-LOSING SEASON!! Whoo hoo! We'll
get 'em next year!

2008 Season:
Record: 8-8
Outlook: That darn hurricane derailed our season. But we're a BETTER 8-8
team than we were LAST YEAR!! Look out 2009!!

.....and so on, so forth.
2009 is looking like another exciting 8-8 year!

Thorn
12-29-2009, 06:56 PM
As long as we keep comparing ourselves to the suckitude of the Capers
Era, we'll never get to "Championship Caliber."

In the NFL, you don't win Superbowls by "accident." You either consider
yourself elite, or you go home. Let's take a look at our Texans since Kubiak
got here, and see where our expectations have been set.

2006 Season:
Record: 6-10
Outlook: Whew. At least we don't suck as bad as the Capers/Casserly
era. We even beat the Colts on Christmas Eve! Whoopie-doo!!!

2007 Season:
Record: 8-8
Outlook: Lookie here!! Our first NON-LOSING SEASON!! Whoo hoo! We'll
get 'em next year!

2008 Season:
Record: 8-8
Outlook: That darn hurricane derailed our season. But we're a BETTER 8-8
team than we were LAST YEAR!! Look out 2009!!

.....and so on, so forth.
2009 is looking like another exciting 8-8 year!


On a night we send three starters to the pro bowl, and three alternates, and are still in the fight for a playoff spot, your pessimism is wearing thin.

tex-sky
12-29-2009, 07:00 PM
Dec 28, 2009 ... Finale gives Texans shot at first winning season, playoff berth ... The Texans lost those four games by an average of 4.75 points. ... NFL Network schedule. The defense continues its improvement after ranking near the ...

DexmanC
12-29-2009, 07:18 PM
On a night we send three starters to the pro bowl, and three alternates, and are still in the fight for a playoff spot, your pessimism is wearing thin.

I'm no pessimist. Just looking to wake up from Groundhog's Day.
I love the Texans, and our low standards are wearing thin on ME.

I'll still be there, rootin' my head off. Hoping, dreaming, wishing for a
day in which we won't SETTLE for mediocrity, and STRIVE for greatness.

It took the Rockets a couple decades to figure that out, but the Texans
and 'Stros are still far behind.

Thorn
12-29-2009, 07:27 PM
I'm no pessimist. Just looking to wake up from Groundhog's Day.
I love the Texans, and our low standards are wearing thin on ME.

I'll still be there, rootin' my head off. Hoping, dreaming, wishing for a
day in which we won't SETTLE for mediocrity, and STRIVE for greatness.

It took the Rockets a couple decades to figure that out, but the Texans
and 'Stros are still far behind.

We are all wishing for greatness. I don't think we have low standards, I just think our standards are misplaced.

:logo:

DexmanC
12-29-2009, 07:41 PM
We are all wishing for greatness. I don't think we have low standards, I just think our standards are misplaced.

:logo:

I'll take your advice, and work towards placing them (expectations) on the bottom rung
like the rest of ya.

GO TEXANS!!

bckey
12-29-2009, 10:50 PM
On a night we send three starters to the pro bowl, and three alternates, and are still in the fight for a playoff spot, your pessimism is wearing thin.

I'm happy about the probowlers but fighting for a playoff spot is kind of strong words. How about keystone copping our way to the playoffs. And hoping we play the Patriots 2nd string and other teams lose. That isn't really battling. The battles were fought and lost in those 4 division games we blew.

Thorn
12-30-2009, 02:50 AM
I'm happy about the probowlers but fighting for a playoff spot is kind of strong words. How about keystone copping our way to the playoffs. And hoping we play the Patriots 2nd string and other teams lose. That isn't really battling. The battles were fought and lost in those 4 division games we blew.

Jacksonville and the Tacks are out for the season and we're not. But hey, who's counting?

THE TEXANS! :texflag:

sportfan73
12-30-2009, 04:03 AM
yea no one seems to want to comment on the fact that we are 7-2 outside of our division, which is 3rd in league, behind 2 teams I think you can all figure out for yourself.

DexmanC
12-30-2009, 06:57 AM
yea no one seems to want to comment on the fact that we are 7-2 outside of our division, which is 3rd in league, behind 2 teams I think you can all figure out for yourself.

I think that's exactly why so many soapers are so pissed off. We're
7-2 OUT of our division, but it's nothing new. Here are our
"Out-of-our Division" records since Kubiak has been here.

2006: 3-7 (3-3 in the division)

2007: 7-3 (1-5 in the division)

2008: 6-4 (2-4 in the division)

CURRENT: 7-2 (1-5 in the division)

So, when you put these numbers into perspective, we're getting
a three-peat of the same thing. We haven't moved forward in 3 seasons.
We are still the doormat of the AFC South, and Sunday we play the
team who destroyed the team that swept us. All this work, because
we came out on opening day with our pants down to a rookie coach
and a rookie quarterback and now THEY hold the tiebreaker over US!

....I'd better stop before my blood gets to boiling again.

silvrhand
12-30-2009, 07:57 AM
On a night we send three starters to the pro bowl, and three alternates, and are still in the fight for a playoff spot, your pessimism is wearing thin.

Four Houston Texans were named to the 2010 AFC/NFC Pro Bowl, the NFL announced today. Houston will send rookie linebacker Brian Cushing, wide receiver Andre Johnson, linebacker DeMeco Ryans and defensive end Mario Williams to South Florida for the league's feature of the best players on Sunday, Jan. 31, 2010. Johnson is the only starter.

Where did you get 3 starters and 3 alternatives?

Thorn
12-30-2009, 08:40 AM
Four Houston Texans were named to the 2010 AFC/NFC Pro Bowl, the NFL announced today. Houston will send rookie linebacker Brian Cushing, wide receiver Andre Johnson, linebacker DeMeco Ryans and defensive end Mario Williams to South Florida for the league's feature of the best players on Sunday, Jan. 31, 2010. Johnson is the only starter.

Where did you get 3 starters and 3 alternatives?

From misreading, I guess. I just watched NFLN and the four that were selected are alternates, not starters. Oops.

But the intent of my post is still the same. Those four will go, and I believe I read there are 3 alternates that might go depending on which team goes to the Super Bowl. Please correct me on that if I'm not right.

HOU-TEX
12-30-2009, 08:57 AM
From misreading, I guess. I just watched NFLN and the four that were selected are alternates, not starters. Oops.

But the intent of my post is still the same. Those four will go, and I believe I read there are 3 alternates that might go depending on which team goes to the Super Bowl. Please correct me on that if I'm not right.

Going to Pro Bowl:
AJ - Starter
Cushing - Sub
D-Ryans - Sub
Mario - Sub

Not going unless they are needed as players drop out:
Schaub - Alternate
Leach - Alternate
Jacoby - Alternate

:)

El Tejano
12-30-2009, 11:30 AM
Other than the games against us, Jax is a 5-8 team (would be 5-10 if we beat them). If you don't think we should beat a team that is 5-8 against the rest of league then you think the Texans are a pretty sorry lot.





At that time, yes. They were giving up 200 yards per game on the ground. If it makes you feel better I thought they could win that game at the beginning of the season but that changed when we started giving up all those yards on defense.

The second time around, we were coming off a 3 game losing streak and going on the road to a, at the time, hot division rival. The last 3 games were heartbrakers and we were only averaging 17 points in the two weeks prior to that game. Yes I thought they would lose that game.

I'm talking circumstances here. They were really playing towards us not winning in those two times. Could we have won those games, yes but the same could be said about our losses to Indy, and Az.

I don't count any division rival game as a should win. You are crazy if you do that. Indy doesn't even do that. These teams see each other twice a year.

thunderkyss
12-30-2009, 11:42 AM
2006: 3-7 (3-3 in the division)

2007: 7-3 (1-5 in the division)

2008: 6-4 (2-4 in the division)

CURRENT: 7-2 (1-5 in the division)


To make sure we are on the same page, you are saying this is indisputable proof that no progress has been made on this team, & that Kubiak is a bad coach..... is that right?

Surely, if a coach can't show discernable improvement in the division record in 4 years, then it's time for him to go?

Sounds like a good point, so I decided to do some looking.

As an aside, in the last 4 years, only 3 teams have consistently (a big buzz word around here) gone to the play-offs. The Colts, The Chargers (they went one year at 8-8) & the Patriots. The Colts & Chargers have gone 4 out of the last 4 years. The Patriots of course screwed up last season by not being prepared for 2 of their 4 division games..... must be a sorry coach.

But any way.

The Broncos have been 3-3 in that division for 2006, 2007, & 2008. Of course that coach needed to be fired. However I was shocked, & find it interesting that he is in high demand. It's also possible that they will be 3-3 this season, so even though everyone is thinking this team is greatly improved, their division record tells us that truthfully, they are the same pathetic franchise they have been for the last three years, coaching change not withstanding. Their 9-7 (missing the play-offs) of 2006, 7-9 of 2007, 8-8 of 2008, and possible 8-8 of 2009 also says that team is not improved, regardless whay your eyes tell you when you watch them play.

Remember, the premise here is that divisional record is an accurate guage of coaching success, & a steady incline means you've got a great coach, and anything else means you have a bad coach.

thunderkyss
12-30-2009, 11:44 AM
The Jets were 4-2 in 2006, they made the play-offs. They were 2-4 in 2007, 4-2 in 2008, & they are currently 2-4 in 2009. Obviously Mangini was a bad coach and deserved to be fired. Starting 4-2, then regressing to 2-4, then only getting the team back to where they started in 2006 of 4-2, missing the play-offs with a 9-7 record in 2008. & Obviously the coaching change set the team back, since they went 2-4 in their division this year. Nevermind that, that looks like a good team, the division record tells you everything you need to know about the coach.

thunderkyss
12-30-2009, 11:44 AM
The Baltimore Ravens were 5-1 in 2006, 1-5 in 2007, which obviously led to the firing of their coach. He must have lost all the coaching ability that had everyone calling him a guru only a few years back. The new coach immediately improved that franchise going 4-2 in 2008, but he must have lost something in 2009, finishing 3-3 in his division games. The only thing that matters, the W-L column also suffered, & they are out of the wildcard hunt today. Obvious proof that this coach is not the right man for the job.

thunderkyss
12-30-2009, 11:45 AM
The Jaguars were 2-4 in 2006, 2-4 in 2007, 2-4 in 2008, & 3-3 in 2009... what's this telling us? Does this coach also need to lose his job? is he not getting it done? The only year they went to the play-offs in the last 4 years they were 2-4. But their division record (the sole/main reason to decide whether you fire your coach or not) shows they haven't got any better or worse over the last 4 years.

thunderkyss
12-30-2009, 11:46 AM
Mangini was thought to be a genius his first year with the Jets & he went 2-4 his second year. Shanahan had the Broncos 3-3 for 3 years straight, showing no obvious improvement after years of coaching success. But every body can look at that team & they can tell you they are better than they were last year, even though they could possibly post the same 3-3 divisional record.

I don't know how long Del Rio has been in Jacksonville, but over the last 4 years, he has been 2-4 in his division, even the year they went to the play-offs. With your line of thinking, that team was no better than the 2009 team, or the 2006 team, even though you can watch them play & see they were better one year than the next, or that they were actually a good team for most of those years.

thunderkyss
12-30-2009, 11:47 AM
My point is not that these numbers are meaningless, only that you have to take several other things into account when looking at them. The teams that have consistently made it to the play-offs over the last 4 years are mature teams. They've got guys that have been playing longer than we've had a franchise. They have several guys that have been playing on their teams longer than we've had a franchise, and most of the guys on those teams have been playing with each other longer than Gary Kubiak has been in Houston.

But you're expecting Kubiak to do something seasoned coaches haven't been able to do. Cowher in his tenure with the Steelers posted a 3-3 divisional record after many, many years coaching (successfully??) that same franchise.

DexmanC
12-30-2009, 12:00 PM
I think that's exactly why so many soapers are so pissed off. We're
7-2 OUT of our division, but it's nothing new. Here are our
"Out-of-our Division" records since Kubiak has been here.

2006: 3-7 (3-3 in the division)

2007: 7-3 (1-5 in the division)

2008: 6-4 (2-4 in the division)

CURRENT: 7-2 (1-5 in the division)



These numbers simply illustrate how consistently sucking in our own division
kills a team's ability to make the playoffs. Asking a coach to win 9 games
in one of his four seasons isn't too much. Making the playoffs at least
once in four years, again, isn't asking for the world. 3-3 in your division
is being COMPETITIVE. Baltimore finishing 5-1 in THEIR division at least
ONCE in four years, is far more than Kubiak has accomplished.

I'm not judging Kubiak on a one-year contingency. I'm judging him
on how little he's done with the talent that continues to improve in
each of his four seasons. Increase in talent SHOULD equal forward
progress in the win/loss column. What we have seen this year, is that
our talent is CLEARLY enough to compete for the division. You don't
go up 17 on the Colts without adequate talent. You don't put 27 unanswered
points on the board AT Miami without adequate talent.

On a pure coaching level, Kubiak has FAILED for the last 3 years. He's
made personnel+playcalling decisions that has cost this team wins. Four
years is enough time to ask for a winning season. Four years is enough
time for a coach to install his system, and garner enough discipline for
his team to play a full game. No team in the league, other than the
Texans, can go up by 27 points and still find a way to lose it. You shouldn't
rely on luck to win with a margin that large, yet they got two penalty calls
to go their way to ice the game for them.

The Jets DESTROYED a woefully prepared team on OPENING DAY, the same
way the STEELERS did the YEAR BEFORE. Now, that same Jets team holds
that tiebreaker over the team they destroyed.. US. Look at how far we've
come. We were an also-ran scrub franchise, and now, we'll be watching
Sunday Night Football praying Marvin Lewis doesn't rest his starters!

That's progress for a team comparing itself to the bottom, but in the big
picture, it ain't ****. Let's start moving forward by comparing our progress
to the best teams in the league. Only then will we achieve the marked
improvement we all seek.

thunderkyss
12-30-2009, 12:31 PM
Let's start moving forward by comparing our progress
to the best teams in the league. Only then will we achieve the marked
improvement we all seek.

We went up 17 points on the Colts & lost that game because of several turnovers & questionable calls by the referees.

If we compare ourselves to the Colts, we are as talented as they are, & more talented in other areas.

But let's not compare this franchise to teams that have been playing together longer than we've been in existence.

Only 3 players on this team have been together longer than 4 years. The Kicker, THE wide Receiver, & a Cornerback.

Ndevine7
12-30-2009, 12:34 PM
an 2 of those players are on their way out

DexmanC
12-30-2009, 12:35 PM
We went up 17 points on the Colts & lost that game because of several turnovers & questionable calls by the referees.

If we compare ourselves to the Colts, we are as talented as they are, & more talented in other areas.

But let's not compare this franchise to teams that have been playing together longer than we've been in existence.

Only 3 players on this team have been together longer than 4 years. The Kicker, THE wide Receiver, & a Cornerback.

Winning teams stay together longer, BECAUSE THEY WIN.
That's the truth of this league.

thunderkyss
12-30-2009, 12:52 PM
Winning teams stay together longer, BECAUSE THEY WIN.
That's the truth of this league.

One of the reason we haven't been winning, is because we didn't have the talent. The fact that few of our players have been playing together for even 4 years, is because the talent was not there.

We've only gotten talented enough to win in the last 2 seasons. You don't want us to compare ourselves to the bottom teams.

But that is where we were.

The comparison there is that we are now head & shoulders above the bad teams. As far as how well we play together. We are as good as the Jets, the Broncos, the Ravens, & all the other mid-level teams.

We are not at the level of the Colts or the Patriots yet, even though we are as talented, even though I think we can beat them.

4 years may have been long enough to get this team there..... I'm not saying any different. I believe it will take 5. Personally, I'm okay with that.

noxiousdog
12-30-2009, 01:19 PM
I'm not judging Kubiak on a one-year contingency. I'm judging him
on how little he's done with the talent that continues to improve in
each of his four seasons. Increase in talent SHOULD equal forward
progress in the win/loss column. What we have seen this year, is that
our talent is CLEARLY enough to compete for the division. You don't
go up 17 on the Colts without adequate talent. You don't put 27 unanswered
points on the board AT Miami without adequate talent.

I'm not sure you can look at it like that. It has to be on a year by year basis.

In year 1, he went 6-10 and at worst you could say they performed to expectations and possibly better.
In year 2, it's about the same thing.
Last year, probably slightly worse, though better than Vegas (7.5 iirc) but difficult to know how accurate vs. reputation based that was.
This year it's worse than expectations, but not by much. Again, better than Vegas, but will still fall short of our consensus (admittedly homer) 10-6.

Second Honeymoon
12-30-2009, 01:33 PM
We beat the radiers badly


who then beat philly


Philly could get the NUmber 2 seed in the NFC


Are the radiers really a bad team

DOes a 0-1 Tenn team count has a losing team at the time ??????

yes, it does count because then and now they had a losing record.

hey I am all for being positive, but to act like this season was a success or some huge improvement is just ridiculous. bottom line is we were 1-5 in our division and only beat one team who has a winning record. that sucks, pure and simple, but it is to be expected from Gary the flatlining retard.

infantrycak
12-30-2009, 01:36 PM
yes, it does count because then and now they both have a losing record.

Yeah and if they beat Seattle then they won't be a losing team. So what?

imatexan
12-30-2009, 04:56 PM
Winning teams stay together longer, BECAUSE THEY WIN.
That's the truth of this league.

I just looked at your last 20 posts and it amazes me how much you talk bad about this team.

One thing is for sure, you sure do follow the Texans, I am just not convinced you are a Texans supporter ;)

silvrhand
12-30-2009, 05:41 PM
But you're expecting Kubiak to do something seasoned coaches haven't been able to do. Cowher in his tenure with the Steelers posted a 3-3 divisional record after many, many years coaching (successfully??) that same franchise.

My point with Gary is that he continues to not be learning/gaining the experience that a head coach should have.

- we let off the gas when we are up on people.. ()(*@$@* that)
- we don't use our go to guys when the time is right.
- lack of intensity/tenacity seems to be a problem with this team.
- we are quite often completely unprepared for the game.
- we are not consistent what so ever.

These are things to me that show coaching is an issue, and this is why I believe that Gary must be replaced.

PapaL
12-30-2009, 05:45 PM
Can't pick your schedule. Can only beat the teams on that schedule. Win some, lose some.

Lucky
12-30-2009, 06:14 PM
The only thing that matters, the W-L column also suffered, & they are out of the wildcard hunt today. Obvious proof that this coach is not the right man for the job.
Reality check:
The Ravens win at Oakland Sunday, and they are in the playoffs. 2 years, 2 playoff appearances. Must be nice.

Obvious proof that John Harbaugh was the right man for the job.

DexmanC
12-30-2009, 06:23 PM
I just looked at your last 20 posts and it amazes me how much you talk bad about this team.

One thing is for sure, you sure do follow the Texans, I am just not convinced you are a Texans supporter ;)

I love this team. I just want them to have a leader who will prepare them
for opening day. As bad we wanna poo-poo the running game, the leader
of our team selected backup linemen and labeled them starters. The leader
told the State of Texas' all-time UIL leading rusher to go take a hike.
Our scrub backs in Chris Taylor, Ahman Green, and Ryan Moats would
back Slaton up quite well. Four years of 8-8, oh well there's always next
year tells me my team deserves better.

Do not confuse my words. I love my Texans. Also understand that I feel
they deserve better than Gary Kubiak's .500 coaching. They like Gary,
but they don't fear him enough to win on a consistent basis. Keep your
argument to the proper point, Imatexan, and never question my
fanhood again.

:fans:

Big Lou
12-30-2009, 06:29 PM
Have all come against losing record teams except for one, the bengals which aren't looking so good of late either.

Sun. 20 @ Titans 12:00 PM W 34-31
Sun. 4 RAIDERS 12:00 PM W 29-6
Sun. 18 @ Bengals 12:00 PM W 28-17
Sun. 25 49ERS 12:00 PM W 24-21
Sun. 1 @ Bills W 31-10
Sun. 13 SEAHAWKS W 34-7
Sun. 20 @ Rams W 16-13
Sun. 27 @ Dolphins W 27-20

So in reality our schedule was much easier this year, and we had more quality wins over real teams last year than we did this year. I don't understand how we can be happy with having an easy schedule and "feeling" like we are turning the corner.

A win is a win but I would have liked to see a win over some of the quality teams we did play this year.

The Colts have only beat 4 teams with winning records, so wins are wins.....

thunderkyss
12-30-2009, 06:38 PM
My point with Gary is that he continues to not be learning/gaining the experience that a head coach should have.

- we let off the gas when we are up on people.. ()(*@$@* that)


We did not let off the gas when we were up on Miami. Our first two possessions of the third Qtr, we came out blazing both guns. Our first play from scrimmage was a 15 yard pass to AJ, followed by a 17 yard run from Foster, & eventually led to a batted ball that was intercepted.


Our second possession was much the same. Firing.

Just because we didn't score doesn't mean we let off the gas. Watch the game again.

- we don't use our go to guys when the time is right.

We use our go to guys all the time... sometimes too many times. Every now & then, Kubiak needs to make it through a game without throwing that bubble screen to Andre. It's been great so far, but there are times that he'll use it three times in a game.

1st & goal is the perfect time to try something "different" you've got three more downs to go, & you're within 10 yards of the end zone.

- lack of intensity/tenacity seems to be a problem with this team.


intensity & tenacity are kind of like mojo. It miraculously shows up when you're winning, and disappears just as quick when you're not. It's kinda like the chicken & egg thing if you ask me.

But that's just me

- we are quite often completely unprepared for the game.

Quite often? Two years in a row I agree we were unprepared for the first game of the season. That is inexcusable, & hopefully GK got reamed for it.

But other than that, you don't lead the league in passing yard, shut down the leagues leading rushing attack (6 games into the season), or lead the league in 3 & outs when you're unprepared.

Impossible

- we are not consistent what so ever.

We consitently beat the bad teams... that's got to count for something. We got our collective butts handed to us by the Oakland Raiders 1 year removed from them being the worst team in the NFL. We were one of their 5 wins.

We played them every year, almost as if we were in the same division. kinda like Miami, who is obviously much better coached than we are, even though they looked like they had no idea the best receiver in the league was coming home to Miami.

Remember losing to that bad Cowboy team last year? I bet we won't lose to them next year.

Think about it, we beat all the bad teams.

These are things to me that show coaching is an issue, and this is why I believe that Gary must be replaced.

Don't get me wrong, I see a lot of bad things in Kubiak. He was not the right man for this job 4 years ago. He obviously didn't know what he was getting into.

I think he would have done very well, with New Orleans, or NYJets, or the StL Rams, or any of the other seasoned teams that hired coaches in 2006.

That was the time to hire a Bill Cowher, or Bill Parcells, or Mike Holmgren... a failed expansion team.

The team we got right now, I think Kubiak is the perfect man for the job.

silvrhand
12-30-2009, 10:13 PM
Thunder,

We have gone conservative on a lot of playing calling after we build up a lead. After the first series interception in the second half of the miami game the next two series were almost all runs.. The Miami game is not the only one we have done this in, Kubiak can't adjust for no running game and do ball control offense aka colts/49'ers.

I don't know how many times this year we see Andre when we are in the red zone matched up one on one and we don't throw a pass to the corner for him to go get. 1st and goal and I bet 80-90% of the time we'll try to run the ball, for being so balanced on offense we sure aren't balanced in the red zone.

It took us almost 10 games to think about maybe lining him up in the slot so thaty can't put corner tight safety over on him and eliminate him.

Consistently beat bad team now, are you watching the same game as I am, how many times have we completely let people back into the game that have no right playing with us? We lack the intensity/tenacity to go for the kill, and honestly I think this is Kubiak wanting to run the ball to put the game away, f'that we can't do it put 60 on them and complete demoralize them.

Tenacity/Intensity doesn't come every game but we are flat more than we are up and I just don't think Gary can motivate a team, his personality just doesn't suit it.

I had high hopes for Gary when he came to the Texans and I hoped he would be able to take his training wheels off by now, but sometimes I see too much of the training wheels.

We can agree to disagree I just want the Texans to be winners and I just don't think Gary is going to get us there.

GP
12-30-2009, 10:26 PM
Reality check:
The Ravens win at Oakland Sunday, and they are in the playoffs. 2 years, 2 playoff appearances. Must be nice.

Obvious proof that John Harbaugh was the right man for the job.

But he had a rookie QB last year. An aged WR who retired this past off-season, then un-retired.

An aging defense.

Calamity at the position of running back. Ray Rice. RAY RICE?

How could Harbaugh lead THAT team to their current state?

Must have been luck. Or cologne made from real bits of panther...

Aw shucks, there I go again. Time to drink some Kool Aid, I suppose. My teeth are stained red, though, and my dental bills are piling up. I'm going to be in dentures by this time next year.

thunderkyss
12-30-2009, 11:29 PM
How could Harbaugh lead THAT team to their current state?


Is that the same team that went 13-3 in 2006? A team that was in the play-offs.

It's not like he needed a LT, a Center, a RG, a RT, a TE, a FB, a HB, a WR, 2 DEs, 3 LBs, a CB & 2 Safeties.

Oh yeah, and a QB.

I could be wrong, but I also think the Ravens won a super bowl in the last decade.

Goatcheese
12-31-2009, 12:03 AM
The Texans two possessions of the 3rd quarter

Houston Texans at 10:10
5-D.Carpenter kicks 65 yards from MIA 30 to HST 5. 12-J.Jones to HST 20 for 15 yards (32-J.Allen).

1-10-HOU 20 (10:03) 8-M.Schaub pass short middle to 80-A.Johnson to HST 34 for 14 yards (24-S.Smith).

1-10-HOU 34 (9:26) 8-M.Schaub pass short middle to 83-K.Walter to HST 41 for 7 yards (21-V.Davis).

2-3-HOU 41 (8:43) 37-A.Foster right tackle to MIA 45 for 14 yards (51-A.Ayodele).

1-10-MIA 45 (8:05) 21-R.Moats left guard to MIA 44 for 1 yard (70-K.Langford).

2-9-MIA 44 (7:26) 8-M.Schaub pass short right intended for 85-J.Dreessen INTERCEPTED by 37-Y.Bell (70-K.Langford) at MIA 38. 37-Y.Bell to HST 33 for 29 yards (89-D.Anderson). MIA-37-Y.Bell was injured during the play.

Houston Texans at 05:52
1-10-HOU 44 (5:52) 37-A.Foster right end to HST 46 for 2 yards (21-V.Davis).

2-8-HOU 46 (5:18) 37-A.Foster right guard to MIA 47 for 7 yards (99-J.Taylor).

3-1-MIA 47 (4:40) 37-A.Foster right tackle to MIA 46 for 1 yard (70-K.Langford). 1st down measurement.

1-10-MIA 46 (4:10) 8-M.Schaub pass incomplete deep middle to 80-A.Johnson (24-S.Smith).

2-10-MIA 46 (4:01) 8-M.Schaub pass short left to 21-R.Moats to MIA 48 for -2 yards (51-A.Ayodele). Penalty on HST, Illegal Shift, declined.

3-12-MIA 48 (3:34) (Shotgun) 8-M.Schaub pass incomplete short right to 22-C.Brown (21-V.Davis). Play was challenged by MIA, but play considered unreviewable.

4-12-MIA 48 (3:23) 1-M.Turk punts 37 yards to MIA 11, Center-85-J.Dreessen, fair catch by 15-D.Bess.

4th quarter

Houston Texans at 14:53
1-10-HOU 10 (14:53) 37-A.Foster left tackle to HST 16 for 6 yards (21-V.Davis).

2-4-HOU 16 (14:16) 37-A.Foster right guard to HST 22 for 6 yards (21-V.Davis).

1-10-HOU 22 (13:35) 37-A.Foster left tackle to HST 25 for 3 yards (97-P.Merling, 55-J.Porter).

2-7-HOU 25 (12:53) 8-M.Schaub pass short right to 83-K.Walter to HST 31 for 6 yards (21-V.Davis).

3-1-HOU 31 (12:17) 8-M.Schaub pass incomplete short left to 89-D.Anderson.

4-1-HOU 31 (12:12) 1-M.Turk punts 51 yards to MIA 18, Center-85-J.Dreessen. 15-D.Bess to MIA 26 for 8 yards (25-N.Ferguson).

8 passes
8 runs
Super conservative!