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View Full Version : Are we seeing Jacoby Jones make a legitimate case to become the #2 WR next year?


Porky
12-28-2009, 05:38 PM
Ok, before throwing stones at me the source for my question is none other than Lance Zierlein whose opinions I respect more than basically anyone when it comes to all things football in Houston. Here is a question he posed in his blog. (http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2009/12/post_132.html)

Are we seeing Jacoby Jones make a legitimate case to become the #2 WR next year? I know the Texans don't want to lose Kevin Walter in free agency and I know that Walter is a better blocker in the running game than Jacoby (that matters to the Texans), but it is hard to ignore Jacoby's ability to make things happen after the catch and his 5 TDs in 22 catches is an insane total in comparison to Walter's 2 TDs in 51 catches.

So, what say you?

infantrycak
12-28-2009, 05:45 PM
I don't think it matters whether he is #2 or #3 - he just needs play time and he has shown he deserves to be on the field. We play tons of 3 and 4 WR sets.

stingray
12-28-2009, 05:46 PM
He is becoming a legit reciever but can he be counted on for a full time row? I just don't know. I don't think anyone will break the bank for Kevin since he is having a very average season.

Thorn
12-28-2009, 05:46 PM
A situational number two, yes. We do need someone that can block if itís a running play, but JJ can damn near outrun everyone on the team and we need that speed. I do think JJ has redeemed himself and is becoming a legitimate receiver. With both him and AJ in at the same time, it poses a big coverage problem for opposing CBs and safeties on long passing plays.

utahmark
12-28-2009, 05:47 PM
i would tell you that he droped another catchable ball yesterday but so did kevin.

why did he list wr as one of our positions of need? it was later in the article when people were asking him questions. don't really agree with that.

disaacks3
12-28-2009, 05:50 PM
Lance Z's opinion notwithstanding, I don't trust Jacoby's hands in tight quarters enough yet to make him a #2. As a #3 or 4, we NEED to get him on the field more to stretch the coverage as he can get safeties pulled off of AJ. Simply put, if Jacoby gets a step on your CB, there are VERY few who can catch him...hit him in stride and it's 6.

Thorn
12-28-2009, 05:52 PM
why did he list wr as one of our positions of need? it was later in the article when people were asking him questions. don't really agree with that.

WR is one of the last positions I'd be addressing in the offseason. We need CBs, safetys, linemen, and a good RB LONG before we need more WRs.

Double Barrel
12-28-2009, 05:53 PM
I've got mixed feelings on JJ, but I'm a lot more positive about him after this season. He's still a work in progress, but I agree with Thorn in that he's a 'situational number two'. I don't want to lose Walter, though, but there may not be enough ball to go around.

infantrycak
12-28-2009, 05:54 PM
Simply put, if Jacoby gets a step on your CB, there are VERY few who can catch him...hit him in stride and it's 6.

Agreed and yet his speed reputation is a funny phenomenon. He appears fast when he runs while AJ does not but AJ is faster. Something about their stride.

TEXANRED
12-28-2009, 05:56 PM
Jacoby is a young Corey Bradford at this point in his career. I hope he becomes more but only time will tell.

Honoring Earl 34
12-28-2009, 05:58 PM
Agreed and yet his speed reputation is a funny phenomenon. He appears fast when he runs while AJ does not but AJ is faster. Something about their stride.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=66988&draftyear=2007&genpos=WR

According to this , he ran a 4.5 before the draft . Jacoby has good football speed and runs away from guys . He also has a loosey goosey way when he's got the ball and cuts on a dime . All this and he's 6'2 and 210 lbs . Reminds me of a poor man's John Taylor .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Taylor_%28American_football%29

euro-Texan
12-28-2009, 06:06 PM
I like Jacoby's progress, but our number 2 WR needs to be able to catch balls over the middle. I still think Jacoby is too fragile for that. Keven Walter has good hands, good speed and is consistant. I rewound his missed catch as soon as it happened and while it was catchable, it was poorly thrown. Had Schaub put that ball in front of him KW would have gotten a few yards out of that play. I think slot guys historically score few times because they catch the ball in the middle in traffic. It's a good thing we have a player like AJ who can play both positions, but I like what we have right now.

hookinreds
12-28-2009, 06:07 PM
i would tell you that he droped another catchable ball yesterday but so did kevin.

why did he list wr as one of our positions of need? it was later in the article when people were asking him questions. don't really agree with that.

We've been playing without a C all season, so we are going to just drop the position all together and run a 6 WR scheme. The petition has already been submitted to the NFL to allow this formation and a decision should be made the week after the Superbowl.

stingray
12-28-2009, 06:34 PM
Agreed and yet his speed reputation is a funny phenomenon. He appears fast when he runs while AJ does not but AJ is faster. Something about their stride.

I think it takes jacoby a while to get started when he gets the ball. It's almost like he has bricks as shoes. But when he gets in stride he does put the jets on. But yeah, Andre has no wasted movement, he just puts it on as soon as he gets the ball.

Bubbajwp
12-28-2009, 06:52 PM
As much as I like KW and considering our other needs I cant help but wanting Malcom Floyd.

I mean come on

AJ
Malcom Floyd - 6-5 225
Jacoby Jones

Thats impossible to defend.

Fred
12-28-2009, 07:13 PM
I like Jacoby's progress, but our number 2 WR needs to be able to catch balls over the middle. I still think Jacoby is too fragile for that. Keven Walter has good hands, good speed and is consistant. I rewound his missed catch as soon as it happened and while it was catchable, it was poorly thrown. Had Schaub put that ball in front of him KW would have gotten a few yards out of that play. I think slot guys historically score few times because they catch the ball in the middle in traffic. It's a good thing we have a player like AJ who can play both positions, but I like what we have right now.

I agree with this. Whether you call him 2 or 3, we need a over the middle makes tough catches guy. And AJ and JJ.

This is the first time this year that Jacoby has scored a TD that the board has not lit up with "Cut JJ NOW!" threads. Come on Jacoby haters, where are you?

Corrosion
12-28-2009, 07:27 PM
A situational number two, yes. We do need someone that can block if itís a running play, but JJ can damn near outrun everyone on the team and we need that speed. I do think JJ has redeemed himself and is becoming a legitimate receiver. With both him and AJ in at the same time, it poses a big coverage problem for opposing CBs and safeties on long passing plays.

Add OD to that equasion and you have a passing offense that is almost impossible to defend against.

My hope is that JJ doesnt revert back to last years immaturity .... falling asleep in his car at a stop light. I hope he's past all that and can keep his mind on football rather than things outside the field. Fame , money , being MrBigshot .... can do strange things to people , especially those in their early 20's .

ArlingtonTexan
12-28-2009, 07:57 PM
I am of the view that the Texans need more speed quickness from WR position not manned by andre Johnosn. Walter and Anderson are effective players, but it appears to me that all of the Texans best offensive games are when they get either JJ/Davis deep. I have the need for more speed as a fairly high priority for the Texans off-season especially since Walter is a FA.

Ndevine7
12-28-2009, 08:11 PM
I am of the view that the Texans need more speed quickness from WR position not manned by andre Johnosn. Walter and Anderson are effective players, but it appears to me that all of the Texans best offensive games are when they get either JJ/Davis deep. I have the need for more speed as a fairly high priority for the Texans off-season especially since Walter is a FA.

I like david anderson as a nice 3rd wr that can run the short or intermediate route and get some yac. Walter hasnt done anything this year, but idk if jacoby is developed enough to be that 2nd wr

GP
12-28-2009, 08:18 PM
I think I've raised enough hell over this issue that you all know where I stand.

The guy makes plays. You get the ball into his hands, in space, and he can break off HUGE plays. Chris Johnson is the same way--If he gets into space, he just makes defenders look silly.

You can see it in the body language of LBs and DBs when Jacoby gets the ball in space. They all slow down and try to NOT make a bad angle on him.

Do you see that being done when Walter or Anderson make a catch? Hell no, you don't. You see the defenders running those two guys down and tackling them fairly soon after the catch.

Jacoby Jones was late to a meeting, wasn't allowed to play in the Jags game, and MIGHT have made a difference for us that day. Instead, Kubiak had to inflate his artificial nuts and go "I'm A Man!" on Jacoby.

When Jacoby Jones gets the ball, he makes plays. Period.

Do we NOT need that? How many freaking seasons is it going to take before he gets played? So Gary is NOT racist, but he sure is a dumbass when it comes to making good coaching decisions.

i.e. Chris Brown fumble champion of 2009.

The sooner we get rid of Kubiak, the sooner this team can get a new head coach who knows how to lead men. Jacoby needs work on his character, I won't deny it, but there is more than one way ("I'm A Man!") to lead someone who is dragging his feet on complying with rules.

Gary Kubiak has shot himself in the foot with personnel decisions as it relates to playing the BEST players at critical times.

ArlingtonTexan
12-28-2009, 08:37 PM
I like david anderson as a nice 3rd wr that can run the short or intermediate route and get some yac. Walter hasnt done anything this year, but idk if jacoby is developed enough to be that 2nd wr

For the Texans to take another step they don't need a nice 3rd WR, they one who can make big plays. Look at the teams that throw as much as the Texans they all have more dynamic WR3s than the Texans. Also, I think Anderson is below average at YAC, although he is very quick out his break and runs quality patterns. Nothing wrong with Anderson, but you are a better team if he is a 4th or 5th versus a 3rd.

Maddict5
12-28-2009, 09:06 PM
For the Texans to take another step they don't need a nice 3rd WR, they one who can make big plays. Look at the teams that throw as much as the Texans they all have more dynamic WR3s than the Texans. Also, I think Anderson is below average at YAC, although he is very quick out his break and runs quality patterns. Nothing wrong with Anderson, but you are a better team if he is a 4th or 5th versus a 3rd.

i disagree. he plays our welker role excellently. we dont use him that much but when we do hes money esp on 3rd down (bar that jags game).

Cjeremy635
12-28-2009, 09:12 PM
I like JJ, but he appears to have some maturity issues that he's going to have to fix before I think he can handle the responsibility of being a legit #2. I think he has great speed, but he lacks concentration and focus at times to be one of the guys that Schaub can continually rely on. I would love to see him grow though and become a bigger part of the offense. I'll give him credit though, he has made some clutch catches for us this year and surprised me a few times.

On a side note, I would really like him to learn to reposition the ball when he's running. He's just begging to have that thing punched out by a tackler. I know we've kicked that topic around on here numerous times....but it still isn't fixed. :gun:

ArlingtonTexan
12-28-2009, 10:14 PM
i disagree. he plays our welker role excellently. we dont use him that much but when we do hes money esp on 3rd down (bar that jags game).

Anderson is accepteable not excellent. The next level for the Texans will be on becoming dynamic forcing teams to stop what we do, he is not that level of player. Anderson is a Section 8 versus of Wes Welker.

edo783
12-28-2009, 10:27 PM
JJ is certainly doing better and is a threat, but do you hold your breath when he has the ball? I know I do. Just don't trust him yet.

sportfan73
12-28-2009, 10:32 PM
I'd like to see us take a look at the Cincy WR (Gilyard I think) if he falls to the 2nd round, that or if Dez Bryant somehow falls in our lap in Round 1. Hell he might even fall to the 3rd round, that'd be a nice pick-up after we address RB and OG.

thunderkyss
12-28-2009, 11:12 PM
I don't think it matters whether he is #2 or #3 - he just needs play time and he has shown he deserves to be on the field. We play tons of 3 and 4 WR sets.

I agree with cak....

I believe Walter is the man, & it doesn't make sense to lose him to FA. If Walter does a good job in run blocking (& he does) & the Texans are more productive with JJ on the field (& we are) than Vonta Leach/Joel Dressen....

Then you take those guys off the field, & run more 3 & 4 WR sets.

Honoring Earl 34
12-28-2009, 11:19 PM
I'd like to see us take a look at the Cincy WR (Gilyard I think) if he falls to the 2nd round, that or if Dez Bryant somehow falls in our lap in Round 1. Hell he might even fall to the 3rd round, that'd be a nice pick-up after we address RB and OG.

I agree with this , if the Texans pick #20 and Dez Bryant is the BPA ... take him . Same thing with Spiller , if he falls to #20 ... take him . The guys who say he's to much like Slaton have to take into consideration that he's a lot like Chris Johnson to .

thunderkyss
12-28-2009, 11:21 PM
i disagree. he plays our welker role excellently. we dont use him that much but when we do hes money esp on 3rd down (bar that jags game).

If he played our Welker role, he would be on the field a whole lot more. He's more akin to Keith Poole & Mcafee (he guy who played in Denver), he's clutch & tough as nails.

Jacoby has been our Wes Welker, in that he is a threat & must be respected. You pay too much attention to AJ, & JJ will burn you. As good as Walther is, & as clutch as DA is neither of them do for AJ & Schaub, what Welker does for Moss & Brady.

But none of the three are Welker, & we need at least JJ & Walther. I don't want to lose DA, because I think he's productive, plus a good locker room guy, but if any of the three has to lose snaps, I would vote for DA.

But I would rather Vonta & Dressen lose snaps (with a healthy OD of course).

Honoring Earl 34
12-28-2009, 11:28 PM
If he played our Welker role, he would be on the field a whole lot more. He's more akin to Keith Poole & Mcafee (he guy who played in Denver), he's clutch & tough as nails.

Jacoby has been our Wes Welker, in that he is a threat & must be respected. You pay too much attention to AJ, & JJ will burn you. As good as Walther is, & as clutch as DA is neither of them do for AJ & Schaub, what Welker does for Moss & Brady.

But none of the three are Welker, & we need at least JJ & Walther. I don't want to lose DA, because I think he's productive, plus a good locker room guy, but if any of the three has to lose snaps, I would vote for DA.

But I would rather Vonta & Dressen lose snaps (with a healthy OD of course).

I think JJ is like Welker in that they are elusive after the catch to get some more yards . Walter is a possession receiver who runs good routes and blocks but if we can't run the ball ?

I like Leach but would like to have a guy who's somewhat of a threat to run . I thought Casey was going to play more H Back this year .

Texaninlild
12-28-2009, 11:30 PM
JJ has never had a lack of talent except between the ears. It is nice to see him progress into a good catch and run guy. It is also nice just to see him catch and not fumble. Feast or famine with JJ at times throughout his career.

Goldensilence
12-29-2009, 12:02 AM
Anderson is accepteable not excellent. The next level for the Texans will be on becoming dynamic forcing teams to stop what we do, he is not that level of player. Anderson is a Section 8 versus of Wes Welker.

I think this summarizes my feelings.

I think anderson is more like Wayne Chrebet then he is Wes Welker. If he was even close to Welker he'd be returning kicks. He just doesn't have the same deceptive speed in the open field or is as slippery in traffic.

I keep hearing he's a great locker guy, I guess people are just in love with his string dance for touchdowns and his great Ron Kaworski impression. I think he's much better as a 4th option at WR.

Far as JJ goes....mixed feelings. I think he's become a much better WR and looks to be applying himself. He's definitely got the speed the team needs outside. I think Cak's right in that whether it's a 2 or 3 spot is not as important as getting him in matchups where the offense can use his speed. I just don't think he's been consistent enough to move up to a #2 yet.

For sure I think whether or notto resing KW is going to bea tough decision. I like KW and I think his game fits well into what we do. I just think this year they've used OD to exploit the middle of the field when in the past it seemed like that is where KW made his living, that and making tough catches over the middle.

Norg
12-29-2009, 12:07 AM
IMO i like JJ has a WR deep threat but has a punt returner he stinks

and head to head hes just not has good has Kevin walter Kevin is bigger stronger and all around better

let him stay #3 WR if not o well cut him it will not hurt us that much we still got other WR and anderson


i dont know the probelm with Houston is we just got so many good WR and we dont want to let any of them go i guess thats a good problem

we still have Glenn Martinez who showed flashes in PS

is it even normal for a team to have SIx Wide Recivers ???

steelbtexan
12-29-2009, 12:09 AM
If JJ has matured in his personal life (I've got my doubts) I would let Walter walk and spend the $ in FA on defense.

AJ,JJ,DA,Martinez and I would draft Brandon James in the 5th or 6th rd to return purnts and back DA as the slot receiver.

That WR corps doesn't look bad. IMHO

Getting Floyd or Meachem would be great but is just a pipe dream.

Norg
12-29-2009, 12:14 AM
GIving JJ tho the nod and letting KW walk would be like a money saving upgrade and succuess since WE built our new WR in house "JJ"


but man Kevin walter is to sexy to let go i think LOL

drunkcookie
12-29-2009, 05:38 PM
what does it matter if JJ is 2 or 3? Is the passing game suffering or something?

Without a running game I'd say this year's passing game has been beyond excellent...

As for Walter, the thing I like about the guy is he gets open quick... someone said he runs good routes... exactly... many a time Shaub is being rushed and Walter is open for a short catch... without Walter getting open in short distance Shaub is getting sacked, grounding or throwing a pick in those situations... you can't just let a guy like that walk...

screw YAC, Walter has been our running game...

HJam72
12-29-2009, 08:29 PM
screw YAC, Walter has been our running game...

Now that's just funny. Not sure if I totally agree, but....:goodpost:

ObsiWan
12-29-2009, 09:02 PM
If JJ has matured in his personal life (I've got my doubts) I would let Walter walk and spend the $ in FA on defense.

AJ,JJ,DA,Martinez and I would draft Brandon James in the 5th or 6th rd to return purnts and back DA as the slot receiver.

That WR corps doesn't look bad. IMHO

Getting Floyd or Meachem would be great but is just a pipe dream.

I don't know why people think it would break the bank to re-sign K.W. I know he's a key part in our offense - our clearance rack Wes Welker - but according to this site (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/player/kevin-walterkevin-walter/140537) he's making 1.3 mil this year. So it shouldn't take more than 2-2.5 mil/yr over say, 3 yrs to sign him. Put half of that in incentives/signing bonus and leave the 3rd yr as an option yr.
Do you think he'd walk away from that offer?
Do you guys think he'll get a better deal elsewhere?

Cjeremy635
12-29-2009, 09:42 PM
I don't know why people think it would break the bank to re-sign K.W. I know he's a key part in our offense - our clearance rack Wes Welker - but according to this site (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/player/kevin-walterkevin-walter/140537) he's making 1.3 mil this year. So it shouldn't take more than 2-2.5 mil/yr over say, 3 yrs to sign him. Put half of that in incentives/signing bonus and leave the 3rd yr as an option yr.
Do you think he'd walk away from that offer?
Do you guys think he'll get a better deal elsewhere?

I'd like to think that he would take that offer. I would love to see him resign and IMHO, I think he's a better receiver than JJ. I think he runs better routes, has better hands, is more dependable, and I don't think that KW has off the field or maturity issues that will get in the way of football. I would like to see them both stay, but if I had to choose one, it would be KW at this time.

Big Lou
12-29-2009, 10:04 PM
Ok, before throwing stones at me the source for my question is none other than Lance Zierlein whose opinions I respect more than basically anyone when it comes to all things football in Houston. Here is a question he posed in his blog. (http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2009/12/post_132.html)



So, what say you?



Man I've been mulling a Jacoby thread since Sunday to get everyones reaction to his performance this year. He hasn't done a lot returning in the last few games, but he has been solid. Early in the season he was doing well, but a lot were called back, and of course I recall him breaking one. Anyway he has been a serious deep threat the last 3/4's of the season. Jacoby is back in my good graces.

As much as I'm warming back up to JJ, I want Walters and JJ. Hopefully Walters knows that AJ completes him, like he completes AJ. (Not that AJ needs anybody, but obviousley AJ would rather have Walters than Gaffney!)

DerekLee1
12-29-2009, 10:48 PM
Anderson is accepteable not excellent. The next level for the Texans will be on becoming dynamic forcing teams to stop what we do, he is not that level of player. Anderson is a Section 8 versus of Wes Welker.

Disagree. Anderson has the highest catch vs. thrown-to percentage of any WR in the league. He's a legit #3. JJ is the big question at the WR position, but is a lock at PR/KR. I say you sign him to keep him. And you sign KW as well, as it's an uncapped season. There's no excuse NOT to keep our entire offense intact.

HealingBullets
12-29-2009, 10:57 PM
...

The guy makes plays. You get the ball into his hands, in space, and he can break off HUGE plays. Chris Johnson is the same way--If he gets into space, he just makes defenders look silly.

You can see it in the body language of LBs and DBs when Jacoby gets the ball in space. They all slow down and try to NOT make a bad angle on him.

...

When Jacoby Jones gets the ball, he makes plays. Period.

Agreed

Ole Miss Texan
12-29-2009, 11:11 PM
Coach's decision but if it's me he's still behind AJ and Walter (I re-sign Walter). I think Jacoby still needs to progress more before we appoint him #2 and don't re-sign Walter. Maybe he shows some more improvement over the offseason and wins the job though. In anycase, he's a big threat. He's seen the field more this year and has produced for us.

I'm also a really big fan of David Anderson... but this is a business. For the Texans to be THE elite offense in the league we gotta upgrade. Enter Dexter McCluster from Ole Miss.

Anderson, through his career, has only had three games with over 50 yards receiving. And one of the games he had 1 catch for 60 yards... in the loss to Oakland. I think we can replace DA with McCluster, suddenly our yards after catch skyrocket as does our TDs/points. I'm the first to say our enterior OL is a big problem and we've got to fix our running game, but I also see a huge opportunity in continuing to upgrade our receivers.

WR - TD
A. Johnson - 9
J. Jones - 5
K. Walter - 2
D. Anderson - 0 (3 for career)

Andre, Walter, Jacoby, McCluster, Martinez/Anderson battle for 5. Davis is cut.

ArlingtonTexan
12-29-2009, 11:17 PM
Disagree. Anderson has the highest catch vs. thrown-to percentage of any WR in the league. He's a legit #3. JJ is the big question at the WR position, but is a lock at PR/KR. I say you sign him to keep him. And you sign KW as well, as it's an uncapped season. There's no excuse NOT to keep our entire offense intact.

anderson is in the bottom half and probably bottom 1/3 of #3WRs in the league. His catch percentage is high because he runs painfully short routes, and is poor at YAC. His YPC average is one of the lowest for any WR who has played any significant time. He would not be the number #3WR on any other playoff team and probably not any team we are competing for a playoff spot for. He is roster worthy and offers something but is more valuable as #4 or 5 than the usual number 3 in today's NFL. Go look at what most team's number three is doing in terms of YPC and TDs compaed to what Dancing David does.

ArlingtonTexan
12-29-2009, 11:22 PM
Coach's decision but if it's me he's still behind AJ and Walter (I re-sign Walter). I think Jacoby still needs to progress more before we appoint him #2 and don't re-sign Walter. Maybe he shows some more improvement over the offseason and wins the job though. In anycase, he's a big threat. He's seen the field more this year and has produced for us.

I'm also a really big fan of David Anderson... but this is a business. For the Texans to be THE elite offense in the league we gotta upgrade. Enter Dexter McCluster from Ole Miss.

Anderson, through his career, has only had three games with over 50 yards receiving. And one of the games he had 1 catch for 60 yards... in the loss to Oakland. I think we can replace DA with McCluster, suddenly our yards after catch skyrocket as does our TDs/points. I'm the first to say our enterior OL is a big problem and we've got to fix our running game, but I also see a huge opportunity in continuing to upgrade our receivers.

WR - TD
A. Johnson - 9
J. Jones - 5
K. Walter - 2
D. Anderson - 0 (3 for career)

Andre, Walter, Jacoby, McCluster, Martinez/Anderson battle for 5. Davis is cut.

I am always scared to assume college players will come in a perform, but you are getting the concept that Anderson =ok, but upgrade =chance at an elite offense. Good posting.

steelbtexan
12-29-2009, 11:23 PM
I like Walter but I want to spend Dunta,Walter,A.Davis and Pitts money saved by not resigning them to make a splash in FA.

Martinez or D.Jenkins and a draft pick would be my choice. (B.James FLA in the 5-6th rd would be my choice. He can play the slot, has great speed and would be an upgrade as the KR/PR.) IMO

Hamptom and R.Brown or

Mankins and R.Brown

Would be $ better spent. IMO

Brisco_County
12-30-2009, 12:52 AM
This draft will be dictated by needs instead of best player available. If we want a winning season, we'll be looking past Dez Bryant and picking up one of the many top rated DT's in the first round. The second round should provide a decent center or guard.

Jacoby is not seasoned or disciplined enough to be the #2, but he has the talent to potentially become that. I can see him emerging as our DeSean Jackson.

Walter is strong, fast, disciplined, and has good hands, which is why he remains #2, and why other teams will be offering more money to make him their #2. Technically he's the #3 if OD was healthy.

It would've been smart to pick up Quan Cosby as an UDFA last year to compete with Anderson. They're loving him up there in Cincy.

Livid13
12-30-2009, 05:19 AM
I like Jacoby's progress, but our number 2 WR needs to be able to catch balls over the middle. I still think Jacoby is too fragile for that. Keven Walter has good hands, good speed and is consistant. I rewound his missed catch as soon as it happened and while it was catchable, it was poorly thrown. Had Schaub put that ball in front of him KW would have gotten a few yards out of that play. I think slot guys historically score few times because they catch the ball in the middle in traffic. It's a good thing we have a player like AJ who can play both positions, but I like what we have right now.

Too "FRAGILE" and he returns punts ? Come on, you're joking.

DexmanC
12-30-2009, 07:12 AM
Too "FRAGILE" and he returns punts ? Come on, you're joking.


Exactly. Jacoby RARELY takes direct hits, because he's so damned fast.
He gets away with holding the ball the way he does, because there's rarely
any defender within 15 yards of him, and he NEVER gets caught from behind!

PHAROAH
12-30-2009, 07:44 AM
Jacoby is a serious threat in the passing game but he will never reach his potential on the bench and K. Walters is a #3 Wr IMO. I think Jacoby would make this offense very explosive with his deep speed on the outside and allow K. Walters to use his size & hands going across the middle in the slot, Jacoby should be the #2 wr next year.

ArlingtonTexan
12-30-2009, 09:04 AM
This draft will be dictated by needs instead of best player available. If we want a winning season, we'll be looking past Dez Bryant and picking up one of the many top rated DT's in the first round. The second round should provide a decent center or guard.

Jacoby is not seasoned or disciplined enough to be the #2, but he has the talent to potentially become that. I can see him emerging as our DeSean Jackson.

Walter is strong, fast, disciplined, and has good hands, which is why he remains #2, and why other teams will be offering more money to make him their #2. Technically he's the #3 if OD was healthy.

It would've been smart to pick up Quan Cosby as an UDFA last year to compete with Anderson. They're loving him up there in Cincy.

Is that you Rick?

Brisco_County
12-30-2009, 12:18 PM
Is that you Rick?

Seriously, if we don't pick up a DT and O-linemen, we'll be in the same situation next year that we're in now.

ObsiWan
12-30-2009, 12:32 PM
Jacoby Jones was late to a meeting, wasn't allowed to play in the Jags game, and MIGHT have made a difference for us that day. Instead, Kubiak had to inflate his artificial nuts and go "I'm A Man!" on Jacoby.

The sooner we get rid of Kubiak, the sooner this team can get a new head coach who knows how to lead men. Jacoby needs work on his character, I won't deny it, but there is more than one way ("I'm A Man!") to lead someone who is dragging his feet on complying with rules.

Gary Kubiak has shot himself in the foot with personnel decisions as it relates to playing the BEST players at critical times.

So you're saying that Parcells or Cowher or Belichick wouldn't have penalized J.J. for missing a meeting. Hell, Belichick benched benched his starting DE for being late to practice - AFTER the guy had CALLED IN.

You hate Kubiak. We get that. But benching guys who miss or are late to team mtgs isn't new territory for head coaches.

I'd bet you good money Cowher would have done the same thing. Belichick has shown he'll do the same thing. Don't act like it's unique to Kubiak.

Porky
12-30-2009, 12:44 PM
Pet Peeve alert. For the love of God, can we at least know the name of the players we are discussing. His name is Kevin Walter, not Walters. If you don't know the name of the player, I can't take your post seriousely. :voodoo:

TimeKiller
12-30-2009, 12:55 PM
As long as we have Andre guys like Walter and Anderson are going to bank. Just enough to get a little room and excellent hands, that's their game.

Jacoby is a different phenomena. He's got the "oh-****-he-was-in-front-of-me-a-second-ago-and-why-is-the-QB-airing-one-out-over-me?" type speed/juke moves.

Point I want to make is that this is a complete group, AJ, Kdub, JJ, DA all have complimentary abilities. AJ is the beast, drawing attention away from guys who fill possession receiving roles. Now you've got a monster and two minions to worry about, maybe a good defense gets the hang of them, put in another guy who D's really have to watch because the second they blink he's in the endzone. Now you can't pay attention to anyone too much, AJ gets his again and the cycle comes full circle.

disaacks3
12-30-2009, 01:16 PM
So you're saying that Parcells or Cowher or Belichick wouldn't have penalized J.J. for missing a meeting. Hell, Belichick benched benched his starting DE for being late to practice - AFTER the guy had CALLED IN.

You hate Kubiak. We get that. But benching guys who miss or are late to team mtgs isn't new territory for head coaches.

I'd bet you good money Cowher would have done the same thing. Belichick has shown he'll do the same thing. Don't act like it's unique to Kubiak. Belichick sent FOUR guys home (including Moss) from practice for being late to a meeting. He sure didn't prevent them all from playing or tell them NOT to show up at the stadium on Sunday.

Kubes told Jacoby to NOT EVEN TRAVEL to the game at ALL. If this game is about W's & L's, then you fine him, don't let him start and make the same point.

I fully understand Jacoby's "maturation issues", but when you make game-impacting decisions like this and your team LOSES, then who's the winner here? (Besides the OTHER team). There are times when the "good image" stuff can be taken too far and (IMHO) this was one of them.

infantrycak
12-30-2009, 01:24 PM
Belichick sent FOUR guys home (including Moss) from practice for being late to a meeting. He sure didn't prevent them all from playing or tell them NOT to show up at the stadium on Sunday.

Kubes told Jacoby to NOT EVEN TRAVEL to the game at ALL. If this game is about W's & L's, then you fine him, don't let him start and make the same point.

I fully understand Jacoby's "maturation issues", but when you make game-impacting decisions like this and your team LOSES, then who's the winner here? (Besides the OTHER team). There are times when the "good image" stuff can be taken too far and (IMHO) this was one of them.

How many prior occasions had Kubiak fined him? Maybe it was none and validates your point, but wasn't there a report that the team captains told Kubiak they wanted him benched? I don't think the captains would do that without prior incidents.

disaacks3
12-30-2009, 01:31 PM
How many prior occasions had Kubiak fined him? Maybe it was none and validates your point, but wasn't there a report that the team captains told Kubiak they wanted him benched? I don't think the captains would do that without prior incidents.
Point taken, but it's still KUBIAK'S call to make...unless he's started delegating all that authority to the "Team Captains" as well. I've still never heard any of those team captains step forward and proclaim that they told Kubes to "leave him in Houston". - There are 'degrees' of benching.

I'm not going to give the man all the credit for the wins and only partial credit for losses, especially when he continually keeps blaming himself in the post-game interviews.

RipTraxx
12-30-2009, 01:33 PM
Im still 50/50 about JJ. While it does take time for some recievers to mature into pros, isnt this his contract year? We all know what players do when this is the case.

HOU-TEX
12-30-2009, 01:39 PM
IMO, JJ needs better hands. KW has a very good set of hands, as does DA. Other than lingering maturity issues, he needs to buy and live with a Jugs machine set on full speed.

infantrycak
12-30-2009, 01:40 PM
Point taken, but it's still KUBIAK'S call to make...unless he's started delegating all that authority to the "Team Captains" as well. I've still never heard any of those team captains step forward and proclaim that they told Kubes to "leave him in Houston". - There are 'degrees' of benching.

I'm not going to give the man all the credit for the wins and only partial credit for losses, especially when he continually keeps blaming himself in the post-game interviews.

No doubt the buck stops with Kubiak on the call. We just don't know all the background. I certainly wouldn't cede authority on what D scheme to play to the team captains but I would listen more strongly on the discipline of players, particularly a down the depth chart player.

ObsiWan
12-30-2009, 02:25 PM
Belichick sent FOUR guys home (including Moss) from practice for being late to a meeting. He sure didn't prevent them all from playing or tell them NOT to show up at the stadium on Sunday.

Kubes told Jacoby to NOT EVEN TRAVEL to the game at ALL. If this game is about W's & L's, then you fine him, don't let him start and make the same point.

I fully understand Jacoby's "maturation issues", but when you make game-impacting decisions like this and your team LOSES, then who's the winner here? (Besides the OTHER team). There are times when the "good image" stuff can be taken too far and (IMHO) this was one of them.

This is the incident (http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/7649/report-adalius-might-be-done-for-season) I referred to...

NFL Network's Jason La Canfora, who broke the story Saturday that the New England Patriots (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=nwe) would scratch Adalius Thomas (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=2317) from Sunday's game against the Carolina Panthers (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=car), reports the outside linebacker might already have played his last game for the Patriots.


and here (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Patriots-bench-Adalius-Thomas-again-?urn=nfl,208302)...

Now, the news that Thomas, who was also a healthy scratch against the Tennessee Titans (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/ten/) in Week 6 and is often subbed out in pass-rush situations, will ride the bench (http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/12/12/pats-thomas-wont-play-vs-panthers-after-meeting-flap/) against the Panthers on Sunday

benching players for disciplinary reasons hasn't been unique to Kubiak this year or any other.

And remember, J.J. was on a "short leach" at the beginning of the year. Some folks around here wanted him dumped or at least traded because of his fumbling and immaturity. Or have y'all conveniently forgotten that.

DexmanC
12-30-2009, 02:45 PM
This is the incident (http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/7649/report-adalius-might-be-done-for-season) I referred to...


and here (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Patriots-bench-Adalius-Thomas-again-?urn=nfl,208302)...


benching players for disciplinary reasons hasn't been unique to Kubiak this year or any other.

And remember, J.J. was on a "short leach" at the beginning of the year. Some folks around here wanted him dumped or at least traded because of his fumbling and immaturity. Or have y'all conveniently forgotten that.

5 touchdowns in just 22 catches will make you forget a lot of things. The
point you're smearing over, is that Bellichick wouldn't DARE shut down one
of his MAJOR CONTRIBUTORS from helping him win. Even he knows that
WINNING is priority NUMBER ONE.

Mr teX
12-30-2009, 02:46 PM
I think so. he has clearly shown growth on the field whereas Walter has seemingly regressed. Regressed is to strong a word, i just think teams have finally figured out that they shouldn't fear KW as a deep threat b/c he's not that fast. Jacoby & his speed could bring that dynamic back to the #2 spot.

If you switch the 2, Walter could probably become more of a factor in the offense b/c the strong part of his game is working the middle of the field.

ObsiWan
12-30-2009, 02:56 PM
5 touchdowns in just 22 catches will make you forget a lot of things. The
point you're smearing over, is that Bellichick wouldn't DARE shut down one
of his MAJOR CONTRIBUTORS from helping him win. Even he knows that
WINNING is priority NUMBER ONE.


Whether Adalius Thomas is a "major contributor" is open for discussion. I'm thinking since he's the starting OLB - at least according to the Patriots' official team website - he's a "major contributor and he was benched. Twice.

So that tells me Belichick has done it.

Last time I looked J.J. isn't one of our starting 2 WRs.

TimeKiller
12-30-2009, 03:00 PM
Im still 50/50 about JJ. While it does take time for some recievers to mature into pros, isnt this his contract year? We all know what players do when this is the case.

I think it is but they've also given him more of a chance this year. He's showing that the looks his way are productive ones. I'd pay up for that, certainly has contributed as much as Anderson has.

disaacks3
12-30-2009, 03:02 PM
This is the incident (http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/7649/report-adalius-might-be-done-for-season) I referred to...


and here (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Patriots-bench-Adalius-Thomas-again-?urn=nfl,208302)...


benching players for disciplinary reasons hasn't been unique to Kubiak this year or any other.

And remember, J.J. was on a "short leach" at the beginning of the year. Some folks around here wanted him dumped or at least traded because of his fumbling and immaturity. Or have y'all conveniently forgotten that. That IS the same incident (occurred on 12/9), but Thomas openly complained to the media about it and only THEN got benched for it. In other words, it's quite possible that it wasn't Belichick's original intention to bench him until AFTER his player whined to the media. I didn't hear Jacoby do that.

I stand by my assertion that telling the man NOT to make the flight was an unneccesary overreaction that MAY have cost us a game.

Ole Miss Texan
12-30-2009, 03:02 PM
Has anyone thought that maybe the way Kubiak has been pushing and challenging Jacoby has actually helped him mature as a football player? That maybe this has helped him start to become successful? :hmmm:

disaacks3
12-30-2009, 03:10 PM
Has anyone thought that maybe the way Kubiak has been pushing and challenging Jacoby has actually helped him mature as a football player? That maybe this has helped him start to become successful? :hmmm:
No argument here, but Jacoby was already showing improvement and becoming a 'regular' contributor to the offense prior to this particular offense. (in no doubt related to earlier interventions) Like I said, there's a huge difference in not starting / playing till the 2nd half vs. being told not even to make the trip.

Hey, I too think the movie Hoosiers makes a compelling story when Hackman sits one of his 'stars' for not obeying orders and plays the remainder of the game with only 4 on the floor. But, this is the NFL and the coaches job is to win EVERY game that he can.

infantrycak
12-30-2009, 03:21 PM
Whether Adalius Thomas is a "major contributor" is open for discussion.

No it isn't. Thomas is on a $35 mil contract has been to 2 pro-bowls and was an All Pro. JJ is a few games away from many fans wanting him cut for Glenn Martinez.

I do agree with disaack that I would prefer a coach figure out a way to punish the player rather than the team as a whole.

ObsiWan
12-30-2009, 03:49 PM
No it isn't. Thomas is on a $35 mil contract has been to 2 pro-bowls and was an All Pro. JJ is a few games away from many fans wanting him cut for Glenn Martinez.

I do agree with disaack that I would prefer a coach figure out a way to punish the player rather than the team as a whole.

I understand that viewpoint. And I actually agree. Does it hurt the team more to lose a productive player for a game or a half or to blow off team discipline??

And how else do you get that discipline across? I mean, what good does it do to fine a millionaire a few thousand bucks? and besides a fine or having the guy to sit out a half or a whole game, what else is there?

How much can you overlook before you lose the team? Guys who do as they're asked will wonder why they bother when the rule-breakers get away with stuff because they are so-called "major contributors"?

I'm seeing posts saying that benching J.J. was the wrong thing to do, but I didn't see any recommendations as to what the "right" thing should have been.

ObsiWan
12-30-2009, 03:51 PM
That IS the same incident (occurred on 12/9), but Thomas openly complained to the media about it and only THEN got benched for it. In other words, it's quite possible that it wasn't Belichick's original intention to bench him until AFTER his player whined to the media. I didn't hear Jacoby do that.

I stand by my assertion that telling the man NOT to make the flight was an unneccesary overreaction that MAY have cost us a game.

true. but the Yahoo article I quoted said this was the 2nd time Thomas had been benched - a "healthy scratch" I think they said. There's more there than we'll ever know about.

alphajoker
01-03-2010, 07:11 PM
Jacoby made a nice catch in the end zone to help start the comeback in the 4th quarter today. He was a big part of that drive and I think he will definitely be the #2 WR next year. He did tip the ball for the pick six, but he made up for with that acrobatic catch for a TD. Good game Jacoby!

Norg
01-03-2010, 07:15 PM
THats what i was thinking I hope we keep both KW and JJ next year but


but all signs right now or the mode is to not Renew KW contract

PHAROAH
01-03-2010, 07:21 PM
Jacoby played well today and he proved he should be the #2 wr next year he is a break away threat.

Ndevine7
01-03-2010, 07:23 PM
Jacoby played well today and he proved he should be the #2 wr next year he is a break away threat.

On passing plays he is basically the number 2 but i dont trust him enough in the blocking game

PHAROAH
01-03-2010, 07:27 PM
On passing plays he is basically the number 2 but i dont trust him enough in the blocking game

I understand but he can get better in the off season we need that threat opposite Andre the great.

thunderkyss
01-03-2010, 07:28 PM
On passing plays he is basically the number 2 but i dont trust him enough in the blocking game

It's not that he isn't trying..... KDub is like having another tight end out there.

I don't want to see KDub go anywhere. I'd much rather see more 3 WR sets.

My wife didn't understand why Jacoby jumped into the stands after Schuab took a knee. I told her he's going to get love from his Momma.

I still don't think she knew I meant that literally.

Ndevine7
01-03-2010, 07:28 PM
I understand but he can get better in the off season we need that threat opposite Andre the great.

I agree with you that he is the 2nd wr while passing but i would also like to get a a kevin walter type player that can catch the ball over the middle

ObsiWan
01-03-2010, 08:18 PM
THats what i was thinking I hope we keep both KW and JJ next year but


but all signs right now or the mode is to not Renew KW contract

I think we should be able to afford to keep them both for next year. K.W. has earned a renewal but not an outrageous contract. I think J.J. is still under his rookie deal, isn't he?

redwhiteANDblue
01-03-2010, 08:23 PM
I agree with you that he is the 2nd wr while passing but i would also like to get a a kevin walter type player that can catch the ball over the middle

David Anderson can take care of that

GP
01-03-2010, 08:24 PM
On passing plays he is basically the number 2 but i dont trust him enough in the blocking game

Actually, I think I remember him putting up a very extended block on one of our plays in the 2nd half that broke one of our WRs or RBs for a big gain.

Jacoby Jones and Gary Kubiak need to get their fences mended over the off-season. We need NO friction between them.

He can hang as a Number 2 WR. We've seen it. He has made only two big errors this year: A bobbled fair-catch vs. Titans in first matchup, and today's alligator-arm'd tipped pass that became a pick 6.

Other than that, he's gotten behind defenses and has stretched pass plays into some pretty big YAC and/or TDs.

edo783
01-03-2010, 08:43 PM
The kid has the speed and talent to be a two, just to up and down yet. However, I have seen the hills and valleys become fewer and fewer over the last two years. This is now a passing league and we need to be going 3 wide all the time. AJ & JJ as the wideouts and KW the slot and then just move them all around to keep the defense guessing. Then have Anderson come it for the 4 WR sets. KW and DA working the short and medium middle and AJ & JJ the deeper routes. AD becomes the backup for all of them.

JWarren14
01-04-2010, 04:21 PM
Pretty solid game by JJ yesterday, I am keeping my fingers crossed he has a good off-season and comes back for TC ready to rock and roll. I have a feeling wherever Lil' Shanny goes Kevin Walter may follow, but we shall see.

Two things JJ needs to work on is attitude and holding on to the ball.

Wolf
01-10-2010, 03:42 PM
ē Look for WR Jacoby Jones to get a chance to have a major role in the Texans' offense next season. "Visiting with him in the tunnel today," head coach Gary Kubiak said at his season-ending press conference. "I told him he's got starter ability and it's time for him to think that way. All due respect to (WRs) Kevin (Walter) and Andrť (Davis) and everybody else, but he's got to think that way because he's got the ability to do it and probably this offseason will be his most important one because he's got to come back here in March, whenever we get started, and show his teammates he plans on being that type of player." Walter is slated to be an unrestricted free agent, and Davis has primarily been a kick returner, so opportunity clearly knocks for Jones.




http://www.profootballweekly.com/2010/01/10/seymour-wants-out-of-oakland

redwhiteANDblue
01-10-2010, 03:57 PM
Have a good feeling JJ will be starter next year. If he's not then that would be a questionable move by Kubiak

thunderkyss
01-10-2010, 04:03 PM
Have a good feeling JJ will be starter next year. If he's not then that would be a questionable move by Kubiak

Jacoby Jones has a lot to say about that as well. If his head get's all big, and becoming a dominate NFL receiver is not his primary goal... would you give him the job anyway?

I think JJ was the MVP of that New England game. I think he's had a great season, & I expect to see more of that JJ.

But if he goes all Jerome Mathis on us, I won't blame Kubiak.

Maddict5
01-10-2010, 04:58 PM
Have a good feeling JJ will be starter next year. If he's not then that would be a questionable move by Kubiak

kubiak wants to start him. its up to JJ to determine whether he acts & plays like a starter