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TEXANRED
12-27-2009, 06:36 PM
I know I know. You look at my soap and you say to yourself, "WTF? Make up your mind." Well, I do feel this way for the most part but hear me out.

I really don't wanna go 6-10 or worse next year. Next years schedule is going to be brutal enough with the team that we have without having to throw in a new coach and a new system and everything else that goes with change. Not only are we going to have to play our divisional schedule, but also the NFC East. And to top that if we do finish second in our division we get the 2nd place schedule.

We have improved every year under Kubiak. We are a running back and a center away from being able to compete within our division. This is the best Defense we have ever had.

I am going to agree with Bum Phillips, we are on the verge of something special and I want to see one more year.

I hate myself.

Cjeremy635
12-27-2009, 06:41 PM
I know I know. You look at my soap and you say to yourself, "WTF? Make up your mind." Well, I do feel this way for the most part but hear me out.

I really don't wanna go 6-10 or worse next year. Next years schedule is going to be brutal enough with the team that we have without having to throw in a new coach and a new system and everything else that goes with change. Not only are we going to have to play our divisional schedule, but also the NFC East. And to top that if we do finish second in our division we get the 2nd place schedule.

We have improved every year under Kubiak. We are a running back and a center away from being able to compete within our division. This is the best Defense we have ever had.

I am going to agree with Bum Phillips, we are on the verge of something special and I want to see one more year.

I hate myself.

That makes 2 of us, I hate you too.

J/K....lol.. You know where I stand, I don't have the soap. I think we are on the verge of something great too, it's just a ***** trying to get over that hill. When we do get there, it will be a sweet thing and the good thing is that we are being built to contend for a while....not a 1 and done.

TexansFanatic
12-27-2009, 06:49 PM
When we do get there, it will be a sweet thing and the good thing is that we are being built to contend for a while....not a 1 and done.

I think this is true. After another draft and a couple more free agent moves this team will have a really solid roster built for a series of playoff runs.

TEXANRED
12-27-2009, 06:51 PM
That makes 2 of us, I hate you too.

J/K....lol.. You know where I stand, I don't have the soap. I think we are on the verge of something great too, it's just a ***** trying to get over that hill. When we do get there, it will be a sweet thing and the good thing is that we are being built to contend for a while....not a 1 and done.

This hill is more like Everest but I guess its better to be almost to the top than to be under the mountain like we were at 2-14.

euro-Texan
12-27-2009, 07:00 PM
I think we're really close and I don't buy into the NFC east hype, whoever coaches this team will get us to the playoffs next year. My fear of a new coach is that this roster doesn't fit into his plan and we get a huge roster shift that is essentially starting over

Thorn
12-27-2009, 07:03 PM
Kubiak is back next year anyway, so all the hang wringing is useless. We've got one more draft and season under Kubiak and Smith, so we might as well cheer them on and hope for the best.

euro-Texan
12-27-2009, 07:07 PM
Kubiak is back next year anyway, so all the hang wringing is useless. We've got one more draft and season under Kubiak and Smith, so we might as well cheer them on and hope for the best.

Well Thorn I guess you don't see much chance of the Texans succeeding under Kubiak next year. Could be worse, you could be sporting a JETS avatar again.

Thorn
12-27-2009, 07:10 PM
Well Thorn I guess you don't see much chance of the Texans succeeding under Kubiak next year. Could be worse, you could be sporting a JETS avatar again.

You never know what the Texans are going to do. But one thing is for sure, whatever happens during the offseason and training camp, they have got to get this only playing half a game thing out of their system. If these guys could just improve to playing 3 quarters from 2, I'll bet we are in the playoffs next year.

euro-Texan
12-27-2009, 07:20 PM
You never know what the Texans are going to do. But one thing is for sure, whatever happens during the offseason and training camp, they have got to get this only playing half a game thing out of their system. If these guys could just improve to playing 3 quarters from 2, I'll bet we are in the playoffs next year.

Agreed

jaayteetx
12-27-2009, 07:23 PM
Whats all this talk about next years NFC opponents? Our achilles heel has been our division, period. Win in the south and all is good, IMHO.

TEXANRED
12-27-2009, 07:23 PM
You never know what the Texans are going to do. But one thing is for sure, whatever happens during the offseason and training camp, they have got to get this only playing half a game thing out of their system. If these guys could just improve to playing 3 quarters from 2, I'll bet we are in the playoffs next year.

I think a running game, OD being healthy, and getting Pitts back will help with that.

TEXANRED
12-27-2009, 07:36 PM
Whats all this talk about next years NFC opponents? Our achilles heel has been our division, period. Win in the south and all is good, IMHO.

Anxious on my part. I don't wanna lose to Dallas in our house, I may be going to the Philly game so if I am going to have stuff slung at my head and end up in jail I would like for us to at least win, and the Giants and Redskins are good team. That and its a tough smash mouth old school division.

For our division we need CB's and a FS to beat Indy, a DT to beat the Tits, and some luck to beat the Jags.

Edit:

Maybe Kubiak really is trying to get fired.

Next years schedule:
Home: Indianapolis, Jacksonville, Tennessee, Kansas City, San Diego, Dallas, N.Y. Giants, AFC North
Away: Indianapolis, Jacksonville, Tennessee, Denver, Oakland, Philadelphia, Washington, AFC East

AFC North will either be Pit or Baltimore and AFC East will be the Jets.

Big Lou
12-27-2009, 08:54 PM
I know there are a lot out there ready to get rid of Kubes. I just can't get over the fact that this team just seems like it is so close, this team has been in every game except the Jets game. I think that's what makes it so frustrating.

Even though the record doesn't show it (yet) but this team has gotten better each year under Kubes. The first couple of years were leaps, and the last few have been baby steps, but that's how it works in my opinion.

euro-Texan
12-27-2009, 09:05 PM
I know there are a lot out there ready to get rid of Kubes. I just can't get over the fact that this team just seems like it is so close, this team has been in every game except the Jets game. I think that's what makes it so frustrating.

Even though the record doesn't show it (yet) but this team has gotten better each year under Kubes. The first couple of years were leaps, and the last few have been baby steps, but that's how it works in my opinion.

Hell when Kubiak got here a three game winning streak was unheard of. I think the biggest step has been our legitimacy. I don't think any team faces us like the pushovers we were our first six seasons. We are routinely picked to win against contenders, even on the road. We HAVE to win more division games next year and I think that over the W/L ratio will deceide whether Kubiak returns after next year.

houstonspartan
12-27-2009, 11:10 PM
Guys, honestly, all I want is improvement in the AFC South. I don't think that's too much to ask for. We take care of our own division, and the rest will take care of itself.

Next year's schedule is going to be B-R-U-T-A-L.

Lucky
12-27-2009, 11:11 PM
Next years schedule:
Home: Indianapolis, Jacksonville, Tennessee, Oakland, San Diego, Dallas, N.Y. Giants, AFC North
Away: Indianapolis, Jacksonville, Tennessee, Denver, Kansas City, Philadelphia, Washington, AFC East

AFC North will either be Pit or Baltimore and AFC East will be the Jets.
Fixed it.

Wow. That's a tough schedule. Playing big boy football next season.

edo783
12-27-2009, 11:24 PM
To pull a wining season from that line up will be a major challenge. That is one tough line up of teams...... as we understand them this year. They may change.

Ryan
12-27-2009, 11:48 PM
Our defense early in the year nearly cost us 3 games, but now it's one of our biggest strengths i think. I can still see 10 wins in our schedule next year due to the fact that i think we can only get better by the draft and FA. We can easily win all 4 games in the NFC East cause i also don't buy into the hype. The only possible loss from that division i think is the Eagles. I think we can go either 3-3 or 4-2 in division next year since i think we'll go back to at least beating the Jaguars again, and god forbid we might actually beat the Colts once.

houstonspartan
12-27-2009, 11:55 PM
Fixed it.

Wow. That's a tough schedule. Playing big boy football next season.

Yes, we are, my friend. That's why this season was the season to shore up our issues and learn to play 60 minutes. Next year is going to be a struggle. And we know how this team does in struggles...

Still, today's win was a good one, and the first half was exciting. I'll take it.

SAMURAITEXAN
12-27-2009, 11:56 PM
We are improving every year since Kubiak became HC for the Texans. When he first arrived here, we were bad team. For last two years, we were 8-8. And this year, we may ended up having the first winning record + playoff.

Go Texans!!!

houstonspartan
12-27-2009, 11:59 PM
Our defense early in the year nearly cost us 3 games, but now it's one of our biggest strengths i think. I can still see 10 wins in our schedule next year due to the fact that i think we can only get better by the draft and FA. We can easily win all 4 games in the NFC East cause i also don't buy into the hype. The only possible loss from that division i think is the Eagles. I think we can go either 3-3 or 4-2 in division next year since i think we'll go back to at least beating the Jaguars again, and god forbid we might actually beat the Colts once.

Are you kidding me? We'll be lucky to split the division 3-3. Indy, Tenn and Jax know us backwards and forwards, as they should, since we're in the same division. The Texans, however, can't figure out how to beat teams they've faced twice a year for eight years.

And don't sleep on the NFC East. The Giants will be pissed about this year, and they will come around quick. And, I think the Redskins will have a more decent year next year than we think.

Ryan
12-28-2009, 12:09 AM
Are you kidding me? We'll be lucky to split the division 3-3. Indy, Tenn and Jax know us backwards and forwards, as they should, since we're in the same division. The Texans, however, can't figure out how to beat teams they've faced twice a year for eight years.

And don't sleep on the NFC East. The Giants will be pissed about this year, and they will come around quick. And, I think the Redskins will have a more decent year next year than we think.


Every single division game we had was close this year. It's not like any of the teams are lightyears ahead of where we are anymore, the gap has tightened. If we can just fix the obvious simple mistakes we're a very good team.

DexmanC
12-28-2009, 12:15 AM
Every single division game we had was close this year. It's not like any of the teams are lightyears ahead of where we are anymore, the gap has tightened. If we can just fix the obvious simple mistakes we're a very good team.

Our division games are ALWAYS close, it's just that we come out on the LOSING
END waaayyy more than 50% of the time. Gettin' beat is still gettin' beat, be
it by 1 point or 40.

houstonspartan
12-28-2009, 12:19 AM
Every single division game we had was close this year. It's not like any of the teams are lightyears ahead of where we are anymore, the gap has tightened. If we can just fix the obvious simple mistakes we're a very good team.

Well, sure, we were close in all of those games. And, they were pretty exciting games. But, I only saw a W after one of them. That's what matters.

I agree with you, though, that the gap has tightened. No way is Jacksonville a better team we are THIS YEAR. Jacksonville has a coach that knows how to rally the troops and get his guys playing in key moments. And, trust me, Del Rio doesn't have even a fraction of the talent Kubiak has.

Ryan
12-28-2009, 12:29 AM
Well, sure, we were close in all of those games. And, they were pretty exciting games. But, I only saw a W after one of them. That's what matters.

I agree with you, though, that the gap has tightened. No way is Jacksonville a better team we are THIS YEAR. Jacksonville has a coach that knows how to rally the troops and get his guys playing in key moments. And, trust me, Del Rio doesn't have even a fraction of the talent Kubiak has.


Which is why i still have my pink soap on...Kubiak needs to watch some gamefilm of Belichick or someone in the offseason and watch how he coaches...could probably learn a thing or two, which could help us get over the hump.

maddogmrb
12-28-2009, 12:48 AM
I don't understand you guys. We played a dominant 1st half and then were in danger of losing the game. This, most likely, will be our 3rd 8-8 season and, even if we do beat the Pats (fat chance) the Jets are in the driver's seat and we won't make the playoffs.

Even if, by a miracle, we beat the Pats and the Jets lose at home to the Gals, and we make the playoffs, we are STILL a mediocre team with a mediocre record.

So, we keep Smithiak and end up mediocre again next year, but we came close to making the playoffs with a tough schedule so let's give Smithiak another 5 years of mediocrity!

Since Smithiak took over the team there have been several other teams change coaches and already made the playoffs and one of them did it with a rookie QB.

I just don't believe Kubes is HC material at this point. He is a really good guy and obviously a good coordinator.

Smith as GM ..... well the middle of both our lines are STILL weak and, while Pollard is an excellent addition, we are weak at safety. We have potential at CB with the rookies and that's encouraging, but they're not there yet.

Oh yeah, our DE's are very inconsistent, too.

I say make the change this year or next year we're gonna be looking at 7-9 and saying that we improved as a team, just not reflected in W's.....

DexmanC
12-28-2009, 12:54 AM
Rex Ryan does in ONE year, what Kubiak couldn't in FOUR! No way they
lose to the Bengals next week, so...

Rookie Head Coach SCHOOLS Kubiak in RELIANT, and takes a ROOKIE
QB to the PLAYOFFS!!

We need another 5 years to see what this is about? We have more talent
than Tennessee, AND Jacksonville, and can work just ONE win out of those
four games? We DOMINATE the Colts for a half, and expect to win on just
that?

C'mon, son!!

michaelm
12-28-2009, 01:05 AM
Rex Ryan does in ONE year, what Kubiak couldn't in FOUR! No way they
lose to the Bengals next week, so...

Rookie Head Coach SCHOOLS Kubiak in RELIANT, and takes a ROOKIE
QB to the PLAYOFFS!!

We need another 5 years to see what this is about? We have more talent
than Tennessee, AND Jacksonville, and can work just ONE win out of those
four games? We DOMINATE the Colts for a half, and expect to win on just
that?

C'mon, son!!

Ryan inherited a team that went 9-7 last year, and they need to win next week to have a record that good this year. Kubiak inherited a 2-14 team.
Yeah, Ryan may make the playoffs with a rookie QB, but let's not paint it like he took his team from worst to first in one year... that's just not accurate. The Jets may actually end up losing one more game this year than last year... at least Kubiak never went backwards...

michaelm
12-28-2009, 01:07 AM
Ryan inherited a team that went 9-7 last year, and they need to win next week to have a record that good this year. Kubiak inherited a 2-14 team.
Yeah, Ryan may make the playoffs with a rookie QB, but let's not paint it like he took his team from worst to first in one year... that's just not accurate. The Jets may actually end up losing one more game this year than last year... at least Kubiak never went backwards...


Not only that, The Jets would probably have a losing record RIGHT NOW if the Colts hadn't forfeited today's game to them...

DexmanC
12-28-2009, 01:11 AM
Ryan inherited a team that went 9-7 last year, and they need to win next week to have a record that good this year. Kubiak inherited a 2-14 team.
Yeah, Ryan may make the playoffs with a rookie QB, but let's not paint it like he took his team from worst to first in one year... that's just not accurate. The Jets may actually end up losing one more game this year than last year... at least Kubiak never went backwards...

He inherited that team FOUR YEARS AGO!!
Last year, the Dolphins went from 1-15 to the playoffs! Even THIS year,
they had a division record of 4-2, and had MANY more crushing injuries than
we did, and STILL challenged for a playoff spot. In 2009, Kubiak was working with
a squad that went 8-8 TWO YEARS IN A ROW!! By 2009 standards, they were
at the same starting point, with Kubiak having THREE FULL SEASONS more
HEADCOACHING EXPERIENCE!

That 2-14 excuse was wore out like old turkey meat. You still makin'
sandwiches out of the "2-14" excuse.

michaelm
12-28-2009, 01:20 AM
He inherited that team FOUR YEARS AGO!!
Last year, the Dolphins went from 1-15 to the playoffs! Even THIS year,
they had a division record of 4-2, and had MANY more crushing injuries than
we did, and STILL challenged for a playoff spot. In 2009, Kubiak was working with
a squad that went 8-8 TWO YEARS IN A ROW!! By 2009 standards, they were
at the same starting point, with Kubiak having THREE FULL SEASONS more
HEADCOACHING EXPERIENCE!

That 2-14 excuse was wore out like old turkey meat. You still makin'
sandwiches out of the "2-14" excuse.

No, I'm actually not arguing FOR Kubiak at all, just pointing out the flaws in your statement.
If you would've used Miami as an example in the earlier post, I probably wouldn't have responded at all...
I think the Jets are a bad comparison, and didn't agree with your statement is all.
I'm definitely not defending Kubiak...

Also, you are pointing out the whole four year thing, so the starting point of 2-14 is relevant. If you start your statement from last year @ 8-8, then 2-14 isn't relevant.

houstonspartan
12-28-2009, 01:35 AM
He inherited that team FOUR YEARS AGO!!
Last year, the Dolphins went from 1-15 to the playoffs! Even THIS year,
they had a division record of 4-2, and had MANY more crushing injuries than
we did, and STILL challenged for a playoff spot. In 2009, Kubiak was working with
a squad that went 8-8 TWO YEARS IN A ROW!! By 2009 standards, they were
at the same starting point, with Kubiak having THREE FULL SEASONS more
HEADCOACHING EXPERIENCE!

That 2-14 excuse was wore out like old turkey meat. You still makin'
sandwiches out of the "2-14" excuse.

I agree about the "2-14 excuse." It's old.

Btw, where's your soap? Drop it?

DerekLee1
12-28-2009, 01:37 AM
Keep Kubiak. He has improved as a head coach game by game, season by season. It's not like he's making the same mistakes over and over. His players obviously like playing for him, and he always puts good coaches around him. Can you imagine how good our team would have been if Frank Bush had been our DC from his first season LIKE KUBIAK WANTED?!?

I, for one, don't want to start over with a new HC and will give Kubes at least one more season to see what he can accomplish. Here's to hoping he's another long-timer that can take this team to the playoffs year after year after year.

houstonspartan
12-28-2009, 01:44 AM
Keep Kubiak. He has improved as a head coach game by game, season by season. It's not like he's making the same mistakes over and over. His players obviously like playing for him, and he always puts good coaches around him. Can you imagine how good our team would have been if Frank Bush had been our DC from his first season LIKE KUBIAK WANTED?!?

I, for one, don't want to start over with a new HC and will give Kubes at least one more season to see what he can accomplish. Here's to hoping he's another long-timer that can take this team to the playoffs year after year after year.

Uh, he HAS been making the same mistakes over and over. You been watching this team?

I don't see how you can say he has improved game by game. Those four division losses were so embarrassing it's not even funny. And, if you don't think division games aren't important, think again. Division games are the most important games we play. They're also the most winnable, since we play these teams twice a year and should know them backwards and forwards.

So, technically, Gary's record in the division should be factored into his effectiveness as a head coach, wouldn't you agree?

Gary's AFC South record: 7-17.

That's shameful.

DerekLee1
12-28-2009, 01:48 AM
Uh, he HAS been making the same mistakes over and over. You been watching this team?

I don't see how you can say he has improved game by game. Those four division losses were so embarrassing it's not even funny. And, if you don't think division games aren't important, think again. Division games are the most important games we play. They're also the most winnable, since we play these teams twice a year and should know them backwards and forwards.

So, technically, Gary's record in the division should be factored into his effectiveness as a head coach, wouldn't you agree?

Gary's AFC South record: 7-17.

That's shameful.

Heartbreaking, yes. Embarrassing? Not even. Those are rivalry games and can ALWAYS fall either way. The cowboys' 1-15 season is a great example. Their one victory was against the rival Redskins.

The only mistake Kubiak has made regularly is giving Chris Brown the football. I still can't believe I was actually excited at one point that we signed that guy. *shudder*.

A stud RB in the first round, a C and DT in the 2nd and third, and we're an annual contender.

houstonspartan
12-28-2009, 01:58 AM
Heartbreaking, yes. Embarrassing? Not even. Those are rivalry games and can ALWAYS fall either way. The cowboys' 1-15 season is a great example. Their one victory was against the rival Redskins.

The only mistake Kubiak has made regularly is giving Chris Brown the football. I still can't believe I was actually excited at one point that we signed that guy. *shudder*.

A stud RB in the first round, a C and DT in the 2nd and third, and we're an annual contender.
You're joking, right?

Let me get this straight: The Texans had like six months to prepare for what they knew was a big game. They knew it was Monday Night. They knew it could have major implications for post season. They knew it could be a "signature" game that would announce to the world that we had arrives. They knew that it was against our BIGGEST RIVALS. They knew it would be on national television. And, a bonus: It was right after a bye week! They'd be nice and rested, no?

They knew all of this. And yet they blew the Monday night game. That was embarrassing. Period.

But that wasn't good enough. They went on to lose VERY IMPORTANT GAMES to Indy, Jax, and Indy again.

And you're telling me those losses weren't embarrassing? And who gives a f--k about the Cowboys right after Jerry Jones bought them?

You don't seem to understand the importance of division games. Those are not "rivalry" games. They are damn important games.

If we had one just TWO more of those division games we would be relaxed right now, wondering if we'd be playing the playoffs at home, or on the road.

DexmanC
12-28-2009, 02:14 AM
I agree about the "2-14 excuse." It's old.

Btw, where's your soap? Drop it?

I'm still of the same mind, it's just I have no faith in Bob Mcnair to do what's
right after today's game. Jeff Van Gundy led the Rockets to the playoffs
every year, and Les Alexander fired him because the team was getting
to the same place EVERY YEAR, and not advancing.

Lack of progress is FAILURE. I just don't think Mcnair sees it that way. Perhaps
he'll surprise me after the Superbowl.

By the way, since the tail end of the '06 season, Kubiak has coached in
55 games. His record?

28-27

Tail end of '06: 4-4
Entire 2007 season: 8-8
Entire 2008 season: 8-8
2009 season so far: 8-7
What about these 55 games haven't given you a lengthy-enough track
record to make the proper evaluation?

DerekLee1
12-28-2009, 02:17 AM
You're joking, right?

Let me get this straight: The Texans had like six months to prepare for what they knew was a big game. They knew it was Monday Night. They knew it could have major implications for post season. They knew it could be a "signature" game that would announce to the world that we had arrives. They knew that it was against our BIGGEST RIVALS. They knew it would be on national television. And, a bonus: It was right after a bye week! They'd be nice and rested, no?

They knew all of this. And yet they blew the Monday night game. That was embarrassing. Period.

But that wasn't good enough. They went on to lose VERY IMPORTANT GAMES to Indy, Jax, and Indy again.

And you're telling me those losses weren't embarrassing? And who gives a f--k about the Cowboys right after Jerry Jones bought them?

You don't seem to understand the importance of division games. Those are not "rivalry" games. They are damn important games.

If we had one just TWO more of those division games we would be relaxed right now, wondering if we'd be playing the playoffs at home, or on the road.

I'm not living in the past. I'm living for now, and Kubiak has us one victory away from a playoff berth (with a little help). And with all but one loss within 8 points, I think you give the guy one more shot before you start over.

houstonspartan
12-28-2009, 02:19 AM
I'm still of the same mind, it's just I have no faith in Bob Mcnair to do what's
right after today's game. Jeff Van Gundy led the Rockets to the playoffs
every year, and Les Alexander fired him because the team was getting
to the same place EVERY YEAR, and not advancing.

Lack of progress is FAILURE. I just don't think Mcnair sees it that way. Perhaps
he'll surprise me after the Superbowl.

After the Superbowl is too late to make a coaching decision. The game is in early Feb, and you have the combine and draft looming right after. Coaching changes must happen quickly after the season.

I agree with you about lack of progress. We think alike. Back in the 90s, the Cleveland Indians went to the World Series twice. They lost both times. The second time they lost, they fired their manager. Me and a buddy got into a heated argument. He couldn't see why they fired a coach who'd gone to the world series twice. I told him that they had to, because they were stuck in second gear and wasn't moving forward.

houstonspartan
12-28-2009, 02:21 AM
I'm not living in the past. I'm living for now, and Kubiak has us one victory away from a playoff berth (with a little help). And with all but one loss within 8 points, I think you give the guy one more shot before you start over.

You're not living in the past?

WTF?

We clearly have a mental block about the division games. CLEARLY. And those games are in our FUTURE. When we think about the division games, we have to look in the past. We have to think about division games ALL THE TIME. They should be our obsession.

Dude, never mind. You're not getting it.

beerlover
12-28-2009, 02:23 AM
its split about 50/50 who think they know now, those who know later will be even > :turtle:

bckey
12-28-2009, 08:06 AM
Keep Kubiak. He has improved as a head coach game by game, season by season. It's not like he's making the same mistakes over and over. His players obviously like playing for him, and he always puts good coaches around him. Can you imagine how good our team would have been if Frank Bush had been our DC from his first season LIKE KUBIAK WANTED?!?

I, for one, don't want to start over with a new HC and will give Kubes at least one more season to see what he can accomplish. Here's to hoping he's another long-timer that can take this team to the playoffs year after year after year.

Keeping Kubiak will just set us back a year. He hasn't improved this team. We add more talent every year but still hover around .500. This year we had a soft schedule and a well timed bye week. What did they do? Lose 4 division games in a row. They are exactly where they have been the last 2 years but the difference this year is the teams competing for the wildcard are at .500 also. So the Texans are the same old Texans. They are who we thought they were. They can't play 60 minutes of football to save their life. That my fellow fans is on the coaching staff.

mussop
12-28-2009, 08:19 AM
Keep Kubiak. He has improved as a head coach game by game, season by season. It's not like he's making the same mistakes over and over.

Really? Please explain how he has gotten better and what mistakes is he not making now? :goodluck: Im very interested in hearing this. :evil:

ObsiWan
12-28-2009, 08:31 AM
Are you kidding me? We'll be lucky to split the division 3-3. Indy, Tenn and Jax know us backwards and forwards, as they should, since we're in the same division. The Texans, however, can't figure out how to beat teams they've faced twice a year for eight years.

And don't sleep on the NFC East. The Giants will be pissed about this year, and they will come around quick. And, I think the Redskins will have a more decent year next year than we think.

What was that Osi quote about this possibly being his last game in a Giants' uni? Is he a F/A next season?

ObsiWan
12-28-2009, 08:38 AM
never mind

worldlyman
12-28-2009, 08:48 AM
Keeping Kubiak will just set us back a year. He hasn't improved this team. We add more talent every year but still hover around .500. This year we had a soft schedule and a well timed bye week. What did they do? Lose 4 division games in a row. They are exactly where they have been the last 2 years but the difference this year is the teams competing for the wildcard are at .500 also. So the Texans are the same old Texans. They are who we thought they were. They can't play 60 minutes of football to save their life. That my fellow fans is on the coaching staff.

No. You have it wrong. The Houston Texans are not "exactly" where they were last year.

This season, as opposed to past seasons:

-Kubiak had them at 5-3 at midpoint, first time ever, first time in Texans history.

-Kubiak's got a wide receiver no. 1 NFL in yards, a QB no. 1 NFL in yards, first time ever in Texans history. He had a no. 1 tight end in yards and receptions before he went down for the year.

-Kubiak's got the Texans at 8-7 at this point, STILL IN THE PLAYOFF HUNT THIS LATE IN DECEMBER, first time in franchise history.

-In the Kubiak era, the Texans defense is above 15 in NFL rank and getting more solid. This is unlike last year when the D was virtually prostrate.

At 5-3, I didn't think the Texans would beat the Colts going in, especially after losing Owen Daniels. And I felt that the other rugged AFC South teams would take advantage of the aftermath...

other than that bad 4 game stretch...this Texans team MADE HUGE STEPS THIS YEAR. 5-3 at the midpoint...and then a 3 game winning streak after that difficult Peyton Manning 2-in-3 weeks storm.

So don't put this on Kubiak. Sure, some questionable playcalling on his part but like a broken record, refraining: KUBIAK DIDN"T MISS TWO END OF GAME FIELD GOALS or DROP A GAME TYING BALL AT THE GOAL LINE IN THE WANING SECONDS.

Spelling out the real details certainly refutes the knee-jerk Kubiak detractors.

Going in to next year, there is a lot to look forward to. The Texans have exceeded statistical and closed many performance gaps even if the final scores didn't always reflect that. (And haven't the Texans had losses of no more than 8 points apart from Opening Day? Consider the last two seasons when they were blown out in quite a few losses.)

And really apart from the Colts...the Texans have pretty much split wins and losses with the other AFC South teams the last few years. (Sweeping Jags in 2006-07, splitting with Titans last two seasons, splitting with Jags prior two years...)

Man, you cynics are amazing.

DexmanC
12-28-2009, 09:18 AM
We're the best 8-8 football team 3-years-running in NFL history.

We GET it, dude!

bckey
12-28-2009, 09:21 AM
No. You have it wrong. The Houston Texans are not "exactly" where they were last year.

This season, as opposed to past seasons:

-Kubiak had them at 5-3 at midpoint, first time ever, first time in Texans history.

Softest schedule the Texans have had. And they managed to blow 4 division games in a row.

-Kubiak's got a wide receiver no. 1 NFL in yards, a QB no. 1 NFL in yards, first time ever in Texans history. He had a no. 1 tight end in yards and receptions before he went down for the year.

That is good. But that is between the 20's mostly. And usually in one half of a game.

-Kubiak's got the Texans at 8-7 at this point, STILL IN THE PLAYOFF HUNT THIS LATE IN DECEMBER, first time in franchise history..)

If you would have read my post you would have seen my explanation of that. The only reason we are still in the playoff hunt is because the other teams contending for a wildcard spot are hovering around the .500 mark. They are invading our mediocre territory.

-In the Kubiak era, the Texans defense is above 15 in NFL rank and getting more solid. This is unlike last year when the D was virtually prostrate..)

I like our defense. But that is because of Bush not Kubiak.

At 5-3, I didn't think the Texans would beat the Colts going in, especially after losing Owen Daniels. And I felt that the other rugged AFC South teams would take advantage of the aftermath...

other than that bad 4 game stretch...this Texans team MADE HUGE STEPS THIS YEAR. 5-3 at the midpoint...and then a 3 game winning streak after that difficult Peyton Manning 2-in-3 weeks storm..)

Under Kubiak the Texans have been 3-3, 1-5, 2-4 and 1-5 against the teams in our division. If we can't beat those teams (that we face twice a year) then we will never go anywhere.

So don't put this on Kubiak. Sure, some questionable playcalling on his part but like a broken record, refraining: KUBIAK DIDN"T MISS TWO END OF GAME FIELD GOALS or DROP A GAME TYING BALL AT THE GOAL LINE IN THE WANING SECONDS..)

None of those plays were for the win.

Spelling out the real details certainly refutes the knee-jerk Kubiak detractors.

Yep. Looks like you got us with those details.

Going in to next year, there is a lot to look forward to. The Texans have exceeded statistical and closed many performance gaps even if the final scores didn't always reflect that. (And haven't the Texans had losses of no more than 8 points apart from Opening Day? Consider the last two seasons when they were blown out in quite a few losses.)

Stats and close losses do nothing for us. We need wins and consistant play for 60 minutes a game for 16 games. We have the talent to beat any team in the NFL. The frustrating part is Kubiak doesn't know how to use it. The Texans are the most up and down team week to week and game half to game half in the NFL. This is a direct reflection of our hc not being able to prepare his team properly imho.

Goatcheese
12-28-2009, 09:25 AM
We're the best 8-8 football team 3-years-running in NFL history.

We GET it, dude!

We're 8-7.

DexmanC
12-28-2009, 09:33 AM
We're 8-7.

9-7, on a weak schedule, in which you UNDERACHIEVED to fall to, with no
playoffs, is no different than 8-8. If they make the playoffs, then I'll give
this coaching staff credit for saving the season. Until then, they're the same
squad they were in the second half of '06 all the way to now.

Again.

Gary Kubiak's last 55 games:

Second half of '06: 4-4
Entire '07 season : 8-8
Entire '08 season : 8-8
This season so far: 8-7

Overall Record: 28-27

So what's changed?

houstonspartan
12-28-2009, 09:33 AM
Softest schedule the Texans have had. And they managed to blow 4 division games in a row.



That is good. But that is between the 20's mostly. And usually in one half of a game.



If you would have read my post you would have seen my explanation of that. The only reason we are still in the playoff hunt is because the other teams contending for a wildcard spot are hovering around the .500 mark. They are invading our mediocre territory.



I like our defense. But that is because of Bush not Kubiak.



Under Kubiak the Texans have been 3-3, 1-5, 2-4 and 1-5 against the teams in our division. If we can't beat those teams (that we face twice a year) then we will never go anywhere.



None of those plays were for the win.



Yep. Looks like you got us with those details.



Stats and close losses do nothing for us. We need wins and consistant play for 60 minutes a game for 16 games. We have the talent to beat any team in the NFL. The frustrating part is Kubiak doesn't know how to use it. The Texans are the most up and down team week to week and game half to game half in the NFL. This is a direct reflection of our hc not being able to prepare his team properly imho.


Well said. I stopped looking at stats about 6 or so games ago. I got tired of coming into work after a big fat L bragging about our outstanding quarterback. Matt is fantastic, and has put up the numbers, but he doesn't have the W's.

houstonspartan
12-28-2009, 09:35 AM
9-7, on a weak schedule, in which you UNDERACHIEVED to fall to, with no
playoffs, is no different than 8-8. If they make the playoffs, then I'll give
this coaching staff credit for saving the season. Until then, they're the same
squad they were in the second half of '06 all the way to now.

Again.

Gary Kubiak's last 55 games:

Second half of '06: 4-4
Entire '07 season : 8-8
Entire '08 season : 8-8
This season so far: 8-7

Overall Record: 28-27

So what's changed?


Co-sign. Totally agree.

It's going to be a LONG time before we get a schedule and set up like the one we had this year.

mussop
12-28-2009, 09:55 AM
Softest schedule the Texans have had. And they managed to blow 4 division games in a row.



That is good. But that is between the 20's mostly. And usually in one half of a game.



If you would have read my post you would have seen my explanation of that. The only reason we are still in the playoff hunt is because the other teams contending for a wildcard spot are hovering around the .500 mark. They are invading our mediocre territory.



I like our defense. But that is because of Bush not Kubiak.



Under Kubiak the Texans have been 3-3, 1-5, 2-4 and 1-5 against the teams in our division. If we can't beat those teams (that we face twice a year) then we will never go anywhere.



None of those plays were for the win.



Yep. Looks like you got us with those details.



Stats and close losses do nothing for us. We need wins and consistant play for 60 minutes a game for 16 games. We have the talent to beat any team in the NFL. The frustrating part is Kubiak doesn't know how to use it. The Texans are the most up and down team week to week and game half to game half in the NFL. This is a direct reflection of our hc not being able to prepare his team properly imho.

Spelling out the real details certainly refutes the knee-jerk apologist.

TheRealJoker
12-28-2009, 10:00 AM
All signs point to Kubiak getting another year regardless which is unfortunate because I think a head coach worthy of getting a 5th year to prove himself could've gotten 10 wins (which would be enough for a wildcard) out of this team's personnel and the schedule that the Texans were given for this season.

A worthy HC would've done better than 1-5 in the division. Kubiak has consistently gone 3-1 against the NFC and does great out of our division within the conference as well. Unfortunately he's never shown he can win games within our division consistently. As long as that's the case we're always gonna need to rely on miracles to backdoor our way into the playoffs.

El Tejano
12-28-2009, 10:12 AM
As for the division, Kubiak didn't miss the FGs against Indy and Tenn. Also go and look at how the Colts won all year long and they've pretty much did to us what they've done to others. The Jville game started making me want him fired.

As for the defense getting better. Someone said that was Bush's doing not Kubiak's. However, Kubiak is the one who lobbied for this guy. He couldn't get him his first year because Az. wouldn't let him go. So in a way, Kubiak is responsible for the success of the defense.

My reason for not wanting to fire him, is because of the success of Matt Schaub. Coach to QB relationship is a big reason for many teams success. They each know what they can do and have each others confidence. We don't know if Schaub would be able to have that same success. As long as you have a good QB that truly has a handle on the system, you are going to win games.

mussop
12-28-2009, 10:13 AM
-Kubiak had them at 5-3 at midpoint, first time ever, first time in Texans history.


And yet

2007 - Week 13 - 5-7
2008 - Week 13 - 5-7
2009 - Week 13 - 5-7

Jumble the numbers anyway you want but at the end of the day we are a mediocre team team that cant play 60 minutes of good football when it matters. The Dolphins game was the perfect example of who this team is under Kubiak. We are a team that at times can look dominate and at other times looks lost. Seeing and knowing that I dont know how anyone can come to any other conclusion than the coaching is subpar.

We outplay teams in the first half an get outcoached in the second half on a regular basis.

DeMarCushPoll
12-28-2009, 10:15 AM
Anxious on my part. I don't wanna lose to Dallas in our house, I may be going to the Philly game so if I am going to have stuff slung at my head and end up in jail I would like for us to at least win, and the Giants and Redskins are good team. That and its a tough smash mouth old school division.

For our division we need CB's and a FS to beat Indy, a DT to beat the Tits, and some luck to beat the Jags.

Edit:

Maybe Kubiak really is trying to get fired.

Next years schedule:
Home: Indianapolis, Jacksonville, Tennessee, Kansas City, San Diego, Dallas, N.Y. Giants, AFC North
Away: Indianapolis, Jacksonville, Tennessee, Denver, Oakland, Philadelphia, Washington, AFC East

AFC North will either be Pit or Baltimore and AFC East will be the Jets.

A tough schedule is a good thing. I think we'll be up for those challenges and be battle tested going in to the playoffs.

houstonspartan
12-28-2009, 10:18 AM
A tough schedule is a good thing. I think we'll be up for those challenges and be battle tested going in to the playoffs.

Wow.

I like your optimism and I hope you're right, but...we don't do well when faced with challenges. We struggled with the soft schedule this year, next year is going to be uphill.

utahmark
12-28-2009, 10:21 AM
so if a couple of guys make a few plays we win at least 2 more games. all the sudden kubiak is a great coach? at least a coach worth keeping. missed field goals and guys fumbling at the one is just blind luck, or unluck.

this is a good team and they are getting better. there is only a few teams in the league that we wouldnt have a realistic shot at beating on the road or at home. we get a new coach in here no telling what will happen? i'll stick with what we got for now.

utahmark
12-28-2009, 10:32 AM
I don't understand you guys. We played a dominant 1st half and then were in danger of losing the game. This, most likely, will be our 3rd 8-8 season and, even if we do beat the Pats (fat chance) the Jets are in the driver's seat and we won't make the playoffs.

Even if, by a miracle, we beat the Pats and the Jets lose at home to the Gals, and we make the playoffs, we are STILL a mediocre team with a mediocre record.

So, we keep Smithiak and end up mediocre again next year, but we came close to making the playoffs with a tough schedule so let's give Smithiak another 5 years of mediocrity!
Since Smithiak took over the team there have been several other teams change coaches and already made the playoffs and one of them did it with a rookie QB.

I just don't believe Kubes is HC material at this point. He is a really good guy and obviously a good coordinator.

Smith as GM ..... well the middle of both our lines are STILL weak and, while Pollard is an excellent addition, we are weak at safety. We have potential at CB with the rookies and that's encouraging, but they're not there yet.

Oh yeah, our DE's are very inconsistent, too.

I say make the change this year or next year we're gonna be looking at 7-9 and saying that we improved as a team, just not reflected in W's.....

cinn would probably be our first opponent. we have already beaten them.

TheRealJoker
12-28-2009, 10:32 AM
so if a couple of guys make a few plays we win at least 2 more games. all the sudden kubiak is a great coach? at least a coach worth keeping. missed field goals and guys fumbling at the one is just blind luck, or unluck.

this is a good team and they are getting better. there is only a few teams in the league that we wouldnt have a realistic shot at beating on the road or at home. we get a new coach in here no telling what will happen? i'll stick with what we got for now.

That's the NFL for you. The margin of victory is so small... that is what makes the difference between a 1-5 division record and 5-1 :(

Fact is, every coach that is about to get fired can make similar arguments about "well if a ball just bounced our way we would've won that game". But the problem with that logic is that the final score said that coach lost at the end of the day.

DexmanC
12-28-2009, 10:33 AM
so if a couple of guys make a few plays we win at least 2 more games. all the sudden kubiak is a great coach? at least a coach worth keeping. missed field goals and guys fumbling at the one is just blind luck, or unluck.

this is a good team and they are getting better. there is only a few teams in the league that we wouldnt have a realistic shot at beating on the road or at home. we get a new coach in here no telling what will happen? i'll stick with what we got for now.


This is the kind of terminology championship teams don't use. You MAKE your luck
by playing with high, focused, intense effort for 60 MINUTES. They had
the Colts beat twice, and let them back in the game. The Colts TOOK the
game once the Texans opened the door. Miami was a couple penalties away
from taking THIS game from them. They do NOT adjust to the opponents'
adjustments at all!

I semi-joked on the gameday thread that the Texans would be hoping they'd
scored enough points in the first half to win. This coach can NOT make
second half adjustments. Once halftime hits, we just have to outlast
our opponents, because our coach does not adjust. The elite teams in this
league will beat us every time, and Kubiak has NOT shown ANYTHING in the
direction to change that trend.

This isn't the SEC or Big 12. In today's NFL, you can NOT hope to acquire
enough talent to cover your coaches glaring deficiencies, of which he's
TOO DAMNED STUBBORN to fix!

utahmark
12-28-2009, 10:39 AM
no, every coach can't make that argument. you can tell the difference from a good team that had a chance and a poorly coached team that everyone knows wont show up to play. we are playing well against good teams with chances to win. and we are mostly dominating the poor teams. bad teams get blown our by the good teams and have chance to win against the poor teams. we and improving team that was a break or two from the playoff's.

utahmark
12-28-2009, 10:41 AM
This is the kind of terminology championship teams don't use. You MAKE your luck
by playing with high, focused, intense effort for 60 MINUTES. They had
the Colts beat twice, and let them back in the game. The Colts TOOK the
game once the Texans opened the door. Miami was a couple penalties away
from taking THIS game from them. They do NOT adjust to the opponents'
adjustments at all!

I semi-joked on the gameday thread that the Texans would be hoping they'd
scored enough points in the first half to win. This coach can NOT make
second half adjustments. Once halftime hits, we just have to outlast
our opponents, because our coach does not adjust. The elite teams in this
league will beat us every time, and Kubiak has NOT shown ANYTHING in the
direction to change that trend.

This isn't the SEC or Big 12. In today's NFL, you can NOT hope to acquire
enough talent to cover your coaches glaring deficiencies, of which he's
TOO DAMNED STUBBORN to fix!

we are not a championship team. we are a young, improving, good football team. some people want to tear that up and take our chances with a new coach, some want to see where this team can go. i prefer the second option.

houstonspartan
12-28-2009, 10:48 AM
no, every coach can't make that argument. you can tell the difference from a good team that had a chance and a poorly coached team that everyone knows wont show up to play. we are playing well against good teams with chances to win. and we are mostly dominating the poor teams. bad teams get blown our by the good teams and have chance to win against the poor teams. we and improving team that was a break or two from the playoff's.

Um, no.

It's not about "chances to win." It's about winning. We had Indy. Twice. And blew it.

When your nuts are in the grinder, top shelf teams know how to stop the grinder and pull their nuts out.

utahmark
12-28-2009, 10:57 AM
Um, no.

It's not about "chances to win." It's about winning. We had Indy. Twice. And blew it.

When your nuts are in the grinder, top shelf teams know how to stop the grinder and pull their nuts out.

indy is better than we are. you want to start over because were not as good as indy this year. there isnt a coach in the world who could of made this team better than indy this year. we do have a coach already in place that might make us a better team than indy next year. there are some coaches out there that also have a good chance of getting that done. there are also some good looking coaching canadates that would actually destroy this team and everything weve built. i think our best chance at success is to keep who we got.

houstonspartan
12-28-2009, 11:01 AM
indy is better than we are. you want to start over because were not as good as indy this year. there isnt a coach in the world who could of made this team better than indy this year. we do have a coach already in place that might make us a better team than indy next year. there are some coaches out there that also have a good chance of getting that done. there are also some good looking coaching canadates that would actually destroy this team and everything weve built. i think our best chance at success is to keep who we got.

Good grief. The fear of change strikes again.

Did you see the first half of the second Indy game? We BEAT THE CRAP OUT OF THEM. Indy is beatable. We have to get away from cowering from Indy and excusing those losses. They are in our division. Those games are important.

You're cool with 8-8. That's your business. I'm not.

DexmanC
12-28-2009, 11:08 AM
Good grief. The fear of change strikes again.

Did you see the first half of the second Indy game? We BEAT THE CRAP OUT OF THEM. Indy is beatable. We have to get away from cowering from Indy and excusing those losses. They are in our division. Those games are important.

You're cool with 8-8. That's your business. I'm not.

You think Philip Rivers shakes in his boots when it's time to play the Colts?
They won AT Indy, IN THE PLAYOFFS, although they won their division at
8-8. Don't be afraid to RAISE YOUR EXPECTATIONS! I do NOT want
the Texans to be the Chicago Cubs of the NFL!

houstonspartan
12-28-2009, 11:15 AM
You think Philip Rivers shakes in his boots when it's time to play the Colts?
They won AT Indy, IN THE PLAYOFFS, although they won their division at
8-8. Don't be afraid to RAISE YOUR EXPECTATIONS! I do NOT want
the Texans to be the Chicago Cubs of the NFL!

Co-sign!

utahmark
12-28-2009, 11:32 AM
You think Philip Rivers shakes in his boots when it's time to play the Colts?
They won AT Indy, IN THE PLAYOFFS, although they won their division at
8-8. Don't be afraid to RAISE YOUR EXPECTATIONS! I do NOT want
the Texans to be the Chicago Cubs of the NFL!

just a diff in opinion. some believe a fiery coach with a great pep talk can will a kicker to make a kick. or make a guy hold on to a football. others don't believe a pre game speech can do those things.

DexmanC
12-28-2009, 11:35 AM
just a diff in opinion. some believe a fiery coach with a great pep talk can will a kicker to make a kick. or make a guy hold on to a football. others don't believe a pre game speech can do those things.

Maybe if that coach could get his team to not give up 100 yards in penalties,
they wouldn't NEED their kicker to play to TIE the game.

mussop
12-28-2009, 11:36 AM
we are not a championship team. we are a young, improving, good football team. some people want to tear that up and take our chances with a new coach, some want to see where this team can go. i prefer the second option.

That is a horrible counter to the post you responded to. He points out the coaches inabilities to make adjustments and all you have is "well were a young improving team".

Even if this team goees out and adds more talent and stays healthy next year, none of that is going make up for Kubiaks deficencies as a HC.

infantrycak
12-28-2009, 11:38 AM
Maybe if that coach could get his team to not give up 100 yards in penalties,
they wouldn't NEED their kicker to play to TIE the game.

Maybe if the kicker hadn't missed a FG earlier in the game his missed kick at the end would have been to WIN the game.

mussop
12-28-2009, 11:39 AM
just a diff in opinion. some believe a fiery coach with a great pep talk can will a kicker to make a kick. or make a guy hold on to a football. others don't believe a pre game speech can do those things.

Another weak argument. No one is saying we need a better motivator. We need a coach capable of game planning and making adjustments that give this young talented team a better chance at winning.

DexmanC
12-28-2009, 11:43 AM
Maybe if the kicker hadn't missed a FG earlier in the game his missed kick at the end would have been to WIN the game.

Had they not given up 100+ yards in undisciplined penalites, maybe they
scored on the drives that stalled because of them, or they get off the
field on those 3rd downs, instead of creating new 1st downs for their
opponents with said silly penalties.

It goes back to coaching.

nytexan
12-28-2009, 11:56 AM
You think Philip Rivers shakes in his boots when it's time to play the Colts?
They won AT Indy, IN THE PLAYOFFS, although they won their division at
8-8. Don't be afraid to RAISE YOUR EXPECTATIONS! I do NOT want
the Texans to be the Chicago Cubs of the NFL!

Are you truly going to compare the playoff tested, veteran team of the Chargers with the young Texans???? Please tell me your not that dumb.

Raise expectations???? Let's be real, the Jaguars of 2007 were 11-4 before they rested all their starters and ended up 11-5. The next year they lost 3 starters in the OL. They ended up 5-11 in 2008 and still haven't fully recovered. The Texans lost 2 starters in the OL and a pro bowl TE this year and are still competing for a playoff spot in week 17. Realistically Kubiak has done a yeoman job of keeping the team competitive while being devoid of a running game.

As for the weak schedule that everyone that wants Kubiak fired over argues, there is the real possibility after this coming week that the only 4 teams with a losing record we've played this year are Buffalo, St.Louis, Seattle and Oakland. The 3 teams with 7-8 records play Cleveland-St.Louis and Seattle their last game. So they'll all end up at 8-8. So what EASY schedule are you talking about.

As for the Colts, do you really believe we were the only team that Manning had a 4th quarter comeback on this year. If I'm not mistaken he broke the record this year with a 14-1 team that would have been 15-0 if Caldwell had kept his starters in the whole game.

Improvement from last year?? If getting blown out by almost every playoff team we played last year to being competitive with everyone this year is not an improvement, no-one will ever convince you of anything.

houstonspartan
12-28-2009, 12:00 PM
Are you truly going to compare the playoff tested, veteran team of the Chargers with the young Texans???? Please tell me your not that dumb.

Raise expectations???? Let's be real, the Jaguars of 2007 were 11-4 before they rested all their starters and ended up 11-5. The next year they lost 3 starters in the OL. They ended up 5-11 in 2008 and still haven't fully recovered. The Texans lost 2 starters in the OL and a pro bowl TE this year and are still competing for a playoff spot in week 17. Realistically Kubiak has done a yeoman job of keeping the team competitive while being devoid of a running game.

As for the weak schedule that everyone that wants Kubiak fired over argues, there is the real possibility after this coming week that the only 4 teams with a losing record we've played this year are Buffalo, St.Louis, Seattle and Oakland. The 3 teams with 7-8 records play Cleveland-St.Louis and Seattle their last game. So they'll all end up at 8-8. So what EASY schedule are you talking about.

As for the Colts, do you really believe we were the only team that Manning had a 4th quarter comeback on this year. If I'm not mistaken he broke the record this year with a 14-1 team that would have been 15-0 if Caldwell had kept his starters in the whole game.

Improvement from last year?? If getting blown out by almost every playoff team we played last year to being competitive with everyone this year is not an improvement, no-one will ever convince you of anything.

Uh, no, genius.

This team was struggling BEFORE OD went down. Playing inconsistent and sloppy. Don't pull up the OD excuse.

Who gives a **** how other teams played against Indy? The fact is, WE COULD HAVE BEAT THEM TWICE, AND DID NOT. Why is that so hard for people to believe?

If you can't look at our EASY schedule this year, you don't know much about football.

Please tell me you're not that dumb.

nytexan
12-28-2009, 12:05 PM
If you go thru each game we played and add up the records you'll see that their records at 95 wins and 85 losses. That's a .528 winning percentage. That doesn't seem easy to me but maybe you're a better genius than me??

DexmanC
12-28-2009, 12:09 PM
Are you truly going to compare the playoff tested, veteran team of the Chargers with the young Texans???? Please tell me your not that dumb.

Raise expectations???? Let's be real, the Jaguars of 2007 were 11-4 before they rested all their starters and ended up 11-5. The next year they lost 3 starters in the OL. They ended up 5-11 in 2008 and still haven't fully recovered. The Texans lost 2 starters in the OL and a pro bowl TE this year and are still competing for a playoff spot in week 17. Realistically Kubiak has done a yeoman job of keeping the team competitive while being devoid of a running game.

As for the weak schedule that everyone that wants Kubiak fired over argues, there is the real possibility after this coming week that the only 4 teams with a losing record we've played this year are Buffalo, St.Louis, Seattle and Oakland. The 3 teams with 7-8 records play Cleveland-St.Louis and Seattle their last game. So they'll all end up at 8-8. So what EASY schedule are you talking about.

As for the Colts, do you really believe we were the only team that Manning had a 4th quarter comeback on this year. If I'm not mistaken he broke the record this year with a 14-1 team that would have been 15-0 if Caldwell had kept his starters in the whole game.

Improvement from last year?? If getting blown out by almost every playoff team we played last year to being competitive with everyone this year is not an improvement, no-one will ever convince you of anything.

Getting blown out by the Jets, our DIRECT COMPETITION FOR THE PLAYOFF
SPOT, on OPENING DAY, AT HOME, DID HAPPEN!

FIVE straight DIVISION LOSSES DID HAPPEN!

Playing up for ONE HALF, and being COMPLETELY INEPT the other half of
FOURTEEN of our games DID HAPPEN!

Losing to ALL BUT ONE winning team this season DID HAPPEN

This team will always be mediocre, until it stops measuring its defeats with
EXCUSES. You have to acknowledge a problem by assessing it HONESTLY.
Once you do that, you have to power to CORRECT the flaws in your game.
Keep excusing them away, you'll continue to see the same mistakes game
in game out, season in, season out.

DexmanC
12-28-2009, 12:11 PM
If you go thru each game we played and add up the records you'll see that their records at 95 wins and 85 losses. That's a .528 winning percentage. That doesn't seem easy to me but maybe you're a better genius than me??

We contributed to their winning percentage by seven of those wins. Re-
configure those numbers MINUS the Texans, and you'll get what I'm talking
about.

gary
12-28-2009, 12:14 PM
They did not score any points in the second half and yet they are on the verge. Verge of what? Playoffs are we talking about playoffs or even keeping Gary Kubiak? Just give me a break already. Still giving the football to Chris Brown is all on Kubiak and that is beyond me. Anyone who thinks the Texans will play both halfs is nuts I have seen it too many times before and I know otherwise. And that is what they are going to have to do in order to beat a team like the Pats who are just now peeking now again just like they always do. I just don't see this team winning what has now become the biggest game in fanchise history now I understand that pharse has been tossed around the message board but I truly feel this way hands down due to the win against the Dolphins and just what is going to be at stake for the Texans this Sunday afternoon. If they do make the playoffs Gary is not the coach to take them above or beyond that point maybe he will be with some other team someday but not with the Texans. He does not have very good knowledge of the game clock and he never has. It is not all bad but it's not as great as it should be in order to take this team to the next level as they lack that certain fire that every single NFL playoff bound team has under coach Gary Kubiak. The Texans would be very lucky to scratch the sand and end up with an 8-8 record in 2011 regardless of who the HC is that would be very good. If it were not for a missed FG and a TD that was called back the Texans probably lose that game as well.

infantrycak
12-28-2009, 12:15 PM
Had they not given up 100+ yards in undisciplined penalites, maybe they
scored on the drives that stalled because of them, or they get off the
field on those 3rd downs, instead of creating new 1st downs for their
opponents with said silly penalties.

It goes back to coaching.

Yeah coaching has Barwin getting called for a phantom neutral zone infraction after an incomplete pass on 3rd and 4 or makes a franchise tagged vet like Dunta pull a jersey on an uncatchable ball. Go with that.

This team was struggling BEFORE OD went down. Playing inconsistent and sloppy. Don't pull up the OD excuse.

Inconsistent maybe but 5-3 on a three game win streak.

Who gives a **** how other teams played against Indy? The fact is, WE COULD HAVE BEAT THEM TWICE, AND DID NOT. Why is that so hard for people to believe?

The fact that you can be all emphatic about the Texans COULD HAVE BEAT THEM TWICE is proof of improvement by itself. Until the last two years the Texans were a doormat to the Colts. Now we are a team they take very seriously.

houstonspartan
12-28-2009, 12:18 PM
Getting blown out by the Jets, our DIRECT COMPETITION FOR THE PLAYOFF
SPOT, on OPENING DAY, AT HOME, DID HAPPEN!

FIVE straight DIVISION LOSSES DID HAPPEN!

Playing up for ONE HALF, and being COMPLETELY INEPT the other half of
FOURTEEN of our games DID HAPPEN!

Losing to ALL BUT ONE winning team this season DID HAPPEN

This team will always be mediocre, until it stops measuring its defeats with
EXCUSES. You have to acknowledge a problem by assessing it HONESTLY.
Once you do that, you have to power to CORRECT the flaws in your game.
Keep excusing them away, you'll continue to see the same mistakes game
in game out, season in, season out.


Dex, I was driving my car and listening to the radio when I learned that the last playoff spot could come down to us and the Jets. I nearly crashed my car.

My understanding is that if it's a tie between the Texans and the Jets, the breaker would be whomever won the game between the two.

Guess who that was?

nytexan
12-28-2009, 12:23 PM
We contributed to their winning percentage by seven of those wins. Re-
configure those numbers MINUS the Texans, and you'll get what I'm talking
about.

Actually if you also add in the 8 wins, it lowers their winning percentage, but I'm sure you already knew that. I'm not trying to make excuses, I've been trying to give you facts. Am I overjoyed with this year, no to be honest I'm a touch disappointed, but having said that anyone who's trying to fair in the Texans assessment of this year has to admit there has been progress and more than a little.

The defense is in much better shape and getting a safety and DT in the offseason won't hurt it either. They also have to address the middle of their OL and NEED a running back. Another year of experience for a young starting team won't hurt either. I'm just willing to give Kub's one more year to get it right. That's all.

utahmark
12-28-2009, 12:37 PM
We contributed to their winning percentage by seven of those wins. Re-
configure those numbers MINUS the Texans, and you'll get what I'm talking
about.


lol. you will have to do that to every other teams strength of scheadule as well. thats just crazy logic.

DexmanC
12-28-2009, 12:40 PM
lol. you will have to do that to every other teams strength of scheadule as well. thats just crazy logic.

It's just as crazy to suggest that this year's schedule is tougher than last
year's or the up coming season's schedule.

Scooter
12-28-2009, 12:43 PM
our game against new england is getting scary. with as hard as dex, mussop, and spartan have been praying for 8-8 most of the year i'm worried about the disappointment our fans will have to endure if we win. this holiday season i'm hoping for good health for all texans fans ... beating new england for our first winning season would be a real heartbreaker. we're tough in houston though, lose and all will be well ... win and we'll stick it out with something else to ***** about.

let's go ... texans?

bckey
12-28-2009, 12:48 PM
I'm so tired of hearing the excuse that we are a young team. Actually we are around the middle of the pack so please drop that excuse.

Listed from oldest to youngest

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Three of nine oldest teams in NFC West
September 7, 2009 11:07 AM
Age Rank NFL Team Average Age
1 Redskins 28.02
2 Saints 27.99
3 Cardinals 27.74
3 Patriots 27.74
5 Lions 27.62
6 49ers 27.51
7 Steelers 27.50
8 Vikings 27.48
9 Seahawks 27.41
10 Falcons 27.39
11 Titans 27.29
12 Browns 27.18
13 Jets 27.16
13 Broncos 27.16
15 Bears 27.02
16 Cowboys 26.93
17 Bills 26.93
18 Chargers 26.93
19 Texans 26.89
20 Giants 26.88
21 Ravens 26.83
22 Raiders 26.82
23 Eagles 26.81
24 Rams 26.73
25 Jaguars 26.61
26 Bengals 26.60
27 Dolphins 26.47
28 Bucs 26.46
29 Panthers 26.39
30 Chiefs 26.36
31 Colts 26.34
32 Packers 26.16
Posted by ESPN.com's Mike Sando

utahmark
12-28-2009, 12:51 PM
I'm so tired of hearing the excuse that we are a young team. Actually we are around the middle of the pack so please drop that excuse.

Listed from oldest to youngest

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Three of nine oldest teams in NFC West
September 7, 2009 11:07 AM
Age Rank NFL Team Average Age
1 Redskins 28.02
2 Saints 27.99
3 Cardinals 27.74
3 Patriots 27.74
5 Lions 27.62
6 49ers 27.51
7 Steelers 27.50
8 Vikings 27.48
9 Seahawks 27.41
10 Falcons 27.39
11 Titans 27.29
12 Browns 27.18
13 Jets 27.16
13 Broncos 27.16
15 Bears 27.02
16 Cowboys 26.93
17 Bills 26.93
18 Chargers 26.93
19 Texans 26.89
20 Giants 26.88
21 Ravens 26.83
22 Raiders 26.82
23 Eagles 26.81
24 Rams 26.73
25 Jaguars 26.61
26 Bengals 26.60
27 Dolphins 26.47
28 Bucs 26.46
29 Panthers 26.39
30 Chiefs 26.36
31 Colts 26.34
32 Packers 26.16
Posted by ESPN.com's Mike Sando

i think most people are talking about our starters. we have either the youngest or one of the youngest starting lineups in the league. some of our bench players like jeff z and our punter kind of skew that chart you just put up.

DexmanC
12-28-2009, 12:53 PM
our game against new england is getting scary. with as hard as dex, mussop, and spartan have been praying for 8-8 most of the year i'm worried about the disappointment our fans will have to endure if we win. this holiday season i'm hoping for good health for all texans fans ... beating new england for our first winning season would be a real heartbreaker. we're tough in houston though, lose and all will be well ... win and we'll stick it out with something else to ***** about.

let's go ... texans?

None of us are HOPING for 8-8. We're just disappointed that we keep
drumming up new ways to embrace 8-8'dom every year. 9-7 with
no playoffs, considering the ability of this team, is unacceptable.
They make the playoffs, I'll tone it down 'till I start seeing the same
mistakes next year.

Scooter
12-28-2009, 01:00 PM
I'm so tired of hearing the excuse that we are a young team. Actually we are around the middle of the pack so please drop that excuse.

youngest starting lineup. we dont have any starters over the age of 28 (smith, walter, johnson, schaub at 28). wilson and pitts bump the numbers when they're in (29 and 30 respectively), though the article by stephanie was written while wilson was still in i believe. you're roster numbers are also being skewed by having the oldest defensive player (zgonina at 39) and i think the oldest player (turk at 41).

utahmark
12-28-2009, 01:03 PM
None of us are HOPING for 8-8. We're just disappointed that we keep
drumming up new ways to embrace 8-8'dom every year. 9-7 with
no playoffs, considering the ability of this team, is unacceptable.
They make the playoffs, I'll tone it down 'till I start seeing the same
mistakes next year.

thats the exact point i'm trying to make. you'll be satisfied if we make the playoff's but in reality if we win there is nothing else we can do. so if we win and make the playoff's your happy. if we win and miss kubiak should go. he has no control over that. just like he had no control over a lot of **** that happened this year.

someone was talking about rex ryan earlier. if he would of played the colts when they had something to play for they would not be in the playoff race and then i guess he should be let go. since he got a lucky break and the colts laid down for them, now he's a genous and you would probably love to have him as our coach.

you have to just look for and see if we are getting better or not. if we are improving and being put in positions to win. we have something. if not then we need to look elsewhere. next year if we improve a little more some of these tight games that we barely lost wont be so close. we will be able to beat these teams comfortably and some of the teams we might get beat pretty soundly by this year(sd,new orleans, minn) we will be in dogfights with them with a chance to win next year.(thats what i'm hoping anyway.)

gary
12-28-2009, 01:04 PM
It's like going on vacation every year with this team every year it's the same crap next year it's back to Disney Land.

houstonspartan
12-28-2009, 01:11 PM
our game against new england is getting scary. with as hard as dex, mussop, and spartan have been praying for 8-8 most of the year i'm worried about the disappointment our fans will have to endure if we win. this holiday season i'm hoping for good health for all texans fans ... beating new england for our first winning season would be a real heartbreaker. we're tough in houston though, lose and all will be well ... win and we'll stick it out with something else to ***** about.

let's go ... texans?

Hoping for an 8-8 year? LMAO. I am the last person who wants another 8-8. I eventually want my investment in this team to pay off and return something to me. Five years of being a PSL HOLDER is not cheap, and takes a lot of dedication.

Yeah, I hate this team so much I got on an airplane and flew to Green Bay last year to watch them play.

Whatever, dude.

DexmanC
12-28-2009, 01:45 PM
thats the exact point i'm trying to make. you'll be satisfied if we make the playoff's but in reality if we win there is nothing else we can do. so if we win and make the playoff's your happy. if we win and miss kubiak should go. he has no control over that. just like he had no control over a lot of **** that happened this year.

Nice way to skew the argument into something none of us were talking
about. Making the playoffs is what this team was expected to do to start
the season. It's their own fault they have to cram for the final exam over
coffee and a desk lamp, instead of doing their homework throughout the
season.


someone was talking about rex ryan earlier. if he would of played the colts when they had something to play for they would not be in the playoff race and then i guess he should be let go. since he got a lucky break and the colts laid down for them, now he's a genous and you would probably love to have him as our coach.


If Rex were in his FOURTH year as head coach, in NEW YORK, and had
NEVER sniffed a season greater than 8-8, and had never sniffed postseason,
he WOULD be fired. What's your point?


you have to just look for and see if we are getting better or not. if we are improving and being put in positions to win. we have something. if not then we need to look elsewhere. next year if we improve a little more some of these tight games that we barely lost wont be so close. we will be able to beat these teams comfortably and some of the teams we might get beat pretty soundly by this year(sd,new orleans, minn) we will be in dogfights with them with a chance to win next year.(thats what i'm hoping anyway.)


Won/Loss record is the most BS-proof barometer to determine improvement.
It's easy to romanticize a situation when the unpleasant truth is staring you
right in the face. Again, what's your point? Every team ahead of us in the
wildcard chase does something the Texans have not done under four years
of Kubiak. They compete in their own divisions.

3-3, 1-5, 2-4, 1-5 for an overall record of 7-17 gets a coach fired if that
team strives for anything more than perennial mediocrity. That can't be
denied my friend. I believe this team CAN do better, and should ATTEMPT
to do better than four years of Kubiak.

nytexan
12-28-2009, 01:55 PM
It's like going on vacation every year with this team every year it's the same crap next year it's back to Disney Land.


I'm not quite sure what you're talking about here. Let's do a Kubiak year by year flashback.
2006 Carr's last year, we were lucky to win 6 and no-one really took us seriously.
2007 We won 8 but in reality Jacksonville gave us the last game of the year. No-one really took us seriously and this was Schaub's first year.
2008 Every playoff contender kicked our butts when the season really counted and it took a great late push to get to 8-8. First year you can say we were taken seriously by most teams. The Miami and Chicago games are the only what I call legitimate games we played against good teams outside the division that we played well in. After the Pittsburgh game (1st game in) I don't think anyone looked at us as serious contenders for the playoffs but we did earn respect by the end of the season because of the Chicago win.

2009 First year we are looked at as a contender in franchise history. You can moan and groan about the year but it is what it is, the best year in franchise history. Nobody took us for granted this year. We were a legitimate opponent for everyone. Nobody blew us out in any game although yes we did look like sh*t in the Jets game. Gut wrenching losses this year?? No doubt, but to say there wasn't progress, you have to be kidding me.

You have to bring the coaching staff back for at least 1 more year. They do deserve the chance to finish this up. If you want to use a comparison of some teams making it big at least 1 year, compare us to Detroit, because that's where we were when Kubiak took over. A franchise in total disarray. We are light years ahead from those dark days, and it was done the patient way, the right way getting the vast majority of our players thru the draft.

gary
12-28-2009, 02:02 PM
I'm not quite sure what you're talking about here. Let's do a Kubiak year by year flashback.
2006 Carr's last year, we were lucky to win 6 and no-one really took us seriously.
2007 We won 8 but in reality Jacksonville gave us the last game of the year. No-one really took us seriously and this was Schaub's first year.
2008 Every playoff contender kicked our butts when the season really counted and it took a great late push to get to 8-8. First year you can say we were taken seriously by most teams. The Miami and Chicago games are the only what I call legitimate games we played against good teams outside the division that we played well in. After the Pittsburgh game (1st game in) I don't think anyone looked at us as serious contenders for the playoffs but we did earn respect by the end of the season because of the Chicago win.

2009 First year we are looked at as a contender in franchise history. You can moan and groan about the year but it is what it is, the best year in franchise history. Nobody took us for granted this year. We were a legitimate opponent for everyone. Nobody blew us out in any game although yes we did look like sh*t in the Jets game. Gut wrenching losses this year?? No doubt, but to say there wasn't progress, you have to be kidding me.

You have to bring the coaching staff back for at least 1 more year. They do deserve the chance to finish this up. If you want to use a comparison of some teams making it big at least 1 year, compare us to Detroit, because that's where we were when Kubiak took over. A franchise in total disarray. We are light years ahead from those dark days.I do not reply to Gary Kubiak homers 8-8 would be just the same as the other two. I am just spilling out the truth. Who's with me?

houstonspartan
12-28-2009, 02:05 PM
I do not reply to Gary Kubiak homers 8-8 would be just the same as the other two. I am just spilling out the truth. Who's with me?

Come on, man. Let's not pile up on the guy and be rude. He's new. His opinions may be off base, but let's try and at least make him feel welcome and that we're open to disagreeing opinions.

Just a thought.

gary
12-28-2009, 02:10 PM
Come on, man. Let's not pile up on the guy and be rude. He's new. His opinions may be off base, but let's try and at least make him feel welcome and that we're open to disagreeing opinions.

Just a thought.Why is it that with my post rude is an option I just do not see things that way.

houstonspartan
12-28-2009, 02:15 PM
Why is it that with my post rude is an option I just do not see things that way.

No, I'm just saying that the whole "who'se with me?" can scare people off. I've stopped going to some message boards because they were cliquey and not very welcoming to newcomers. Any new opinion was shot down, and usually by a dozen people who had been posting for years.

That's all I'm saying.

I agree with you about Kubiak, but we should try and be open enough to let other people have their say without it turning into a war with one side packed with soldiers and the other side struggling with a few fighters.

I've shot the guy down several times in this thread, and was likely rude myself. I'll work on that as well.

gary
12-28-2009, 02:24 PM
No, I'm just saying that the whole "who'se with me?" can scare people off. I've stopped going to some message boards because they were cliquey and not very welcoming to newcomers. Any new opinion was shot down, and usually by a dozen people who had been posting for years.

That's all I'm saying.

I agree with you about Kubiak, but we should try and be open enough to let other people have their say without it turning into a war with one side packed with soldiers and the other side struggling with a few fighters.

I've shot the guy down several times in this thread, and was likely rude myself. I'll work on that as well.I won't post that question anymore. Sorry man. Rep for you agreeing with Me on Gary Kubiak though.

redwhiteANDblue
12-28-2009, 02:28 PM
If we lose against the pats I can assure you Kubes wont be here next season. 3 8-8 seasons isn't acceptable.

El Tejano
12-28-2009, 02:31 PM
If I were Mcnair, I would post an ealier quote all around the facilities:

"Great Coaches don't go 8-8 every year".

ObsiWan
12-28-2009, 02:34 PM
Uh, no, genius.

This team was struggling BEFORE OD went down. Playing inconsistent and sloppy. Don't pull up the OD excuse.


We were 5-3 and #2 in the division when O.D. went down.
How is that "struggling"?

You Soapers need to stop lying

Texan_Bill
12-28-2009, 02:39 PM
youngest starting lineup. we dont have any starters over the age of 28 (smith, walter, johnson, schaub at 28). wilson and pitts bump the numbers when they're in (29 and 30 respectively), though the article by stephanie was written while wilson was still in i believe. you're roster numbers are also being skewed by having the oldest defensive player (zgonina at 39) and i think the oldest player (turk at 41).

Correct.

Houston isn't the youngest team in the NFL Green Bay holds that distinction but the Texans have the youngest starting lineup. The average age of the Houston roster is 26.47 years, making the Texans the 15th-youngest team in the league.



Linkage: For some NFL teams, being young bodes well for the future (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/columnists/rgosselin/stories/092709dnsponflcenter.36ff722.html)

DexmanC
12-28-2009, 02:39 PM
We were 5-3 and #2 in the division when O.D. went down.
How is that "struggling"?

Our 3 losses were against the Jets, Jags, and Cardinals.

Our 5 wins were against the Titans, Raiders, Bengals, 49ers, and Bills.

The good teams punished us for playing halfassed. The mediocre/bad
teams had no response to our halfassed play. The Bengals game is
the ONLY game of the season, in which this team played all 60 minutes.

"Struggling" is relative to the competition we've played. When nutcutting
time came after the Bills game, OD was not the reason for this team losing.

gary
12-28-2009, 02:45 PM
I know all you Kubiak supporters will see the light next year but the problem is that many of us are seeing it a year ahead of time that's all.

ObsiWan
12-28-2009, 02:48 PM
Good grief. The fear of change strikes again.

Did you see the first half of the second Indy game? We BEAT THE CRAP OUT OF THEM. Indy is beatable. We have to get away from cowering from Indy and excusing those losses. They are in our division. Those games are important.

You're cool with 8-8. That's your business. I'm not.

It's not the fear of change.
It's the fear of going backwards.
If you GUARANTEE us that we finish > 10-6/11-5 and make the playoffs by firing Kubiak I'll shut up.
You can't.
Nobody can.
For every coaching change that produced a Baltimore or Miami castoff to playoff makeover you point to I can point to a KC or a Detroit or an Oakland or St. Louis coaching change that ended badly.

So until you come up with a GUARANTEE that Cowher or Fox or whoever will come in and take us to the promised land, I'll stand pat. I can see this train going in the right direction. Sorry if the train isn't moving fast enough for ya.

ObsiWan
12-28-2009, 02:54 PM
Our 3 losses were against the Jets, Jags, and Cardinals.

Our 5 wins were against the Titans, Raiders, Bengals, 49ers, and Bills.

The good teams punished us for playing halfassed. The mediocre/bad
teams had no response to our halfassed play. The Bengals game is
the ONLY game of the season, in which this team played all 60 minutes.

"Struggling" is relative to the competition we've played. When nutcutting
time came after the Bills game, OD was not the reason for this team losing.

We'll have to agree to disagree. At the time he went down O.D. was the second most productive part of our passing offense behind A.J. You can't lose that level of production and not be affected. And I know you know that. It's like saying Pittsburgh's loss of Polomalu didn't affect them. You know better.

DexmanC
12-28-2009, 02:56 PM
We'll have to agree to disagree. At the time he went down O.D. was the second most productive part of our passing offense behind A.J. You can't lose that level of production and not be affected. And I know you know that. It's like saying Pittsburgh's loss of Polomalu didn't affect them. You know better.

We still lost to the good teams: Jets, Jags, and Cardinals with OD still
in there. That's the story of the year, isn't it? Beat up on the bad
or injury-riddled teams, and lose to the real contenders.

utahmark
12-28-2009, 02:56 PM
Our 3 losses were against the Jets, Jags, and Cardinals.

Our 5 wins were against the Titans, Raiders, Bengals, 49ers, and Bills.

The good teams punished us for playing halfassed. The mediocre/bad
teams had no response to our halfassed play. The Bengals game is
the ONLY game of the season, in which this team played all 60 minutes.

"Struggling" is relative to the competition we've played. When nutcutting
time came after the Bills game, OD was not the reason for this team losing.

there is almost no diff between titans, bengals, 49ers vs the jets, jags, and cardnals. one win total diff between those teams. your really reaching.

gary
12-28-2009, 02:59 PM
You still have to find ways to win without your greatest players and the Texans just do not instead they find ways to choke up games after having big leads in many of thrm.

utahmark
12-28-2009, 02:59 PM
We still lost to the good teams: Jets, Jags, and Cardinals with OD still
in there. That's the story of the year, isn't it? Beat up on the bad
or injury-riddled teams, and lose to the real contenders.

2 of those losses came before our defense turned the corner. we played much better defense after week 3. when our defense played well and we had od in we were actually 4 and 1. just sayin!

DexmanC
12-28-2009, 03:01 PM
It's not the fear of change.
It's the fear of going backwards.
If you GUARANTEE us that we finish > 10-6/11-5 and make the playoffs by firing Kubiak I'll shut up.
You can't.
Nobody can.
For every coaching change that produced a Baltimore or Miami castoff to playoff makeover you point to I can point to a KC or a Detroit or an Oakland or St. Louis coaching change that ended badly.

So until you come up with a GUARANTEE that Cowher or Fox or whoever will come in and take us to the promised land, I'll stand pat. I can see this train going in the right direction. Sorry if the train isn't moving fast enough for ya.

No teams hires/fires a coach on a "guarantee" on the future. Any coach
who's had the time Kubiak has had here, and has accomplished as little
as he has in so much time, WOULD be fired. He already has a track record,
and perennial mediocrity, in the eyes of championship-oriented teams, is
FAILURE.

2nd half of '06: 4-4
ENTIRE '07 season: 8-8
ENTIRE '08 seaon: 8-8
CURRENT season: 8-7

Overall record during that span: 28-27

That's a HUGE 55-game sample. Take away the spin, and you have a
perfectly mediocre coach. We don't know what we'll get, but we DO
know what we have. What we have is perennial mediocrity. We
can't move forward if we continue to stand still. Fear of the future, is
NOT a reason to remain stagnant.

houstonspartan
12-28-2009, 03:01 PM
It's not the fear of change.
It's the fear of going backwards.
If you GUARANTEE us that we finish > 10-6/11-5 and make the playoffs by firing Kubiak I'll shut up.
You can't.
Nobody can.
For every coaching change that produced a Baltimore or Miami castoff to playoff makeover you point to I can point to a KC or a Detroit or an Oakland or St. Louis coaching change that ended badly.

So until you come up with a GUARANTEE that Cowher or Fox or whoever will come in and take us to the promised land, I'll stand pat. I can see this train going in the right direction. Sorry if the train isn't moving fast enough for ya.

You are joking, right?

So you're saying you can GURANTEE us that Kubiak will take us to the playoffs?

Dude, no offense, but you talk like a loser. "Oh, we can't do anything until we are SURE we can move forward."

That's loser talk.

There are no freaking guarantees in anything.

gary
12-28-2009, 03:02 PM
In the NFL you play with who you have.

TEXANRED
12-28-2009, 03:18 PM
If I were Mcnair, I would post an ealier quote all around the facilities:

"Great Coaches don't go 8-8 every year".

I agree with you but what happens to the new coach with next years schedule? 2010 will not be a good time to try and rebuild.

Next years schedule:
Home: Indianapolis, Jacksonville, Tennessee, Oakland, San Diego, Dallas, N.Y. Giants, AFC North
Away: Indianapolis, Jacksonville, Tennessee, Denver, Kansas City, Philadelphia, Washington, AFC East

AFC North will either be Pit or Baltimore and AFC East will be the Jets.

That would be like having a catagory 5 hurricane about to come down on you and deciding that the levies need to be rebuilt.

We are what we are at this point and I say let it ride through next year.

spurstexanstros
12-28-2009, 03:19 PM
It's not the fear of change.
It's the fear of going backwards.
If you GUARANTEE us that we finish > 10-6/11-5 and make the playoffs by firing Kubiak I'll shut up.
You can't.
Nobody can.
For every coaching change that produced a Baltimore or Miami castoff to playoff makeover you point to I can point to a KC or a Detroit or an Oakland or St. Louis coaching change that ended badly.

So until you come up with a GUARANTEE that Cowher or Fox or whoever will come in and take us to the promised land, I'll stand pat. I can see this train going in the right direction. Sorry if the train isn't moving fast enough for ya.

I cant rep you again but...verbal rep my friend I cant agree more.



Kubiak put players in position to win but players didnt excecute. Ill give the soapers a bit of ground...some of the play calling has perplexed me, especially around the goalline. This scenario happened on a number of occasions: #80 gets you to have first and goal and you dont throw him the ball once.....(Jax twice, Indy, st louis, tenn, Arizona) I think you throw your best player the ball. If the texans had one play to get a win and they threw it to AJ...no fan here would be pissed. that is my only reason to take Kubiak to task. Dont be cute...do what you can to win...period.

Otherwise I like where the Texans are...if KB makes some fgs...would have been better. If by a miracle all three teams loose and the Texans are in.....awesome. I will take a 9-7 or 8-8 year any day over the run-run pas days or the first and fall days of the past.

Find a coach who wont set us back by overhauling the offense and vastly improved defense....and push us over the edge....then maybe Kubiak is not the guy...until then....Kubiak = Texans rising.

gary
12-28-2009, 03:19 PM
This season is why Gary should be hot, on his hot seat.

DeMarCushPoll
12-28-2009, 03:21 PM
Wow.

I like your optimism and I hope you're right, but...we don't do well when faced with challenges. We struggled with the soft schedule this year, next year is going to be uphill.

As this team matures and grows together they will learn how to win those tough games. I wouldn't say we struggled with a soft schedule because our main struggles were within our own devision. I think we're just a few peices away from being a real powerhouse. I know everyone's worried about the NFC East, but I don't think that devision is so tough anymore.

gary
12-28-2009, 03:25 PM
I cant rep you again but...verbal rep my friend I cant agree more.



Kubiak put players in position to win but players didnt excecute. Ill give the soapers a bit of ground...some of the play calling has perplexed me, especially around the goalline. This scenario happened on a number of occasions: #80 gets you to have first and goal and you dont throw him the ball once.....(Jax twice, Indy, st louis, tenn, Arizona) I think you throw your best player the ball. If the texans had one play to get a win and they threw it to AJ...no fan here would be pissed. that is my only reason to take Kubiak to task. Dont be cute...do what you can to win...period.

Otherwise I like where the Texans are...if KB makes some fgs...would have been better. If by a miracle all three teams loose and the Texans are in.....awesome. I will take a 9-7 or 8-8 year any day over the run-run pas days or the first and fall days of the past.

Find a coach who wont set us back by overhauling the offense and vastly improved defense....and push us over the edge....then maybe Kubiak is not the guy...until then....Kubiak = Texans rising.You said rising. Is this a dead team? LOL.

Texan_Bill
12-28-2009, 03:29 PM
You said rising. Is this a dead team? LOL.

It was circa 2005.

DeMarCushPoll
12-28-2009, 03:29 PM
I'm so tired of hearing the excuse that we are a young team. Actually we are around the middle of the pack so please drop that excuse.

Listed from oldest to youngest

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Three of nine oldest teams in NFC West
September 7, 2009 11:07 AM
Age Rank NFL Team Average Age
1 Redskins 28.02
2 Saints 27.99
3 Cardinals 27.74
3 Patriots 27.74
5 Lions 27.62
6 49ers 27.51
7 Steelers 27.50
8 Vikings 27.48
9 Seahawks 27.41
10 Falcons 27.39
11 Titans 27.29
12 Browns 27.18
13 Jets 27.16
13 Broncos 27.16
15 Bears 27.02
16 Cowboys 26.93
17 Bills 26.93
18 Chargers 26.93
19 Texans 26.89
20 Giants 26.88
21 Ravens 26.83
22 Raiders 26.82
23 Eagles 26.81
24 Rams 26.73
25 Jaguars 26.61
26 Bengals 26.60
27 Dolphins 26.47
28 Bucs 26.46
29 Panthers 26.39
30 Chiefs 26.36
31 Colts 26.34
32 Packers 26.16
Posted by ESPN.com's Mike Sando


Actually if you take our punter out of the mix, we'd #2. I think he's in his 70's I'm not sure.

Goldensilence
12-28-2009, 03:30 PM
Patriots game will be interesting. If Kubiak manages to squeak out a win against the wolf in NE he can finally put a winning season on his resume.

I find the argument for and against Kubiak intriguing because well to be honest the real crux of keeping Gary is how he's turned to team into a competitive squad over time and kept us out of salary cap hell doing so. He's found what looks like to bea real capable starter in Schaub and looks like the guy he chose has helped the defense turn a corner.

Problem is on the other hand if you want to look at that progression in the wins/losses column there hasn't been any improvement save from his first season finishing 6-10. A hard pill to swallow considering he managed a 6-10 with a bad squad that had just won two games the year prior and had a terrrible QB at the helm. Just two games improvement. The best team he's fielded and an easy out of division schedule and the best he can manage at this point is a 9-7 season.

I can't help but wonder with those last two things in mind how the supporters figure that with a much tougher schedule next year he can surpass another 8-8 or maybe 9-7 season?

Just thinking out loud.

DexmanC
12-28-2009, 03:33 PM
I agree with you but what happens to the new coach with next years schedule? 2010 will not be a good time to try and rebuild.

Next years schedule:
Home: Indianapolis, Jacksonville, Tennessee, Oakland, San Diego, Dallas, N.Y. Giants, AFC North
Away: Indianapolis, Jacksonville, Tennessee, Denver, Kansas City, Philadelphia, Washington, AFC East

AFC North will either be Pit or Baltimore and AFC East will be the Jets.

That would be like having a catagory 5 hurricane about to come down on you and deciding that the levies need to be rebuilt.

We are what we are at this point and I say let it ride through next year.

This team already has a solid core. They just need a true leader to instill
some discipline. Again. We don't know what the future holds in a new
coach, only what we already have. This leadership group can't get this
squad to play 60 minutes for a full season, and they've started game one
of the last two seasons playing at preseason speed.

TheCD
12-28-2009, 03:33 PM
No teams hires/fires a coach on a "guarantee" on the future. Any coach
who's had the time Kubiak has had here, and has accomplished as little
as he has in so much time, WOULD be fired. He already has a track record,
and perennial mediocrity, in the eyes of championship-oriented teams, is
FAILURE.

2nd half of '06: 4-4
ENTIRE '07 season: 8-8
ENTIRE '08 seaon: 8-8
CURRENT season: 8-7

Overall record during that span: 28-27

That's a HUGE 55-game sample. Take away the spin, and you have a
perfectly mediocre coach. We don't know what we'll get, but we DO
know what we have. What we have is perennial mediocrity. We
can't move forward if we continue to stand still. Fear of the future, is
NOT a reason to remain stagnant.

Not really an argument about the topic at hand...but I just wanted to point out that this is driving me nuts. You're telling other people to take away the spin, but you've spun the '06 season to look mediocre, at 4-4. We were 6-10, so why not just include the whole season to bolster your point?

Kubiak's record currently is 30-33.

gary
12-28-2009, 03:38 PM
It was circa 2005.Ooo, scary a football team rising from the dead that is 52 players we're talking about I better go lock the door now what a scary thought.

DexmanC
12-28-2009, 03:39 PM
Not really an argument about the topic at hand...but I just wanted to point out that this is driving me nuts. You're telling other people to take away the spin, but you've spun the '06 season to look mediocre, at 4-4. We were 6-10, so why not just include the whole season to bolster your point?

Kubiak's record currently is 30-33.

I didn't spin the '06 season to look mediocre. The start of the '06
season was horrible. The second half of the '06 season was mediocre,
which is an improvement from terrible. However, mediocre is where we've
remained for the last 3 1/2 seasons.

The only "improvement" has been the creativity of the excuses.

Texan_Bill
12-28-2009, 03:42 PM
Ooo, scary a football team rising from the dead that is 52 players we're talking about I better go lock the door now what a scary thought.

You asked a simple question. You got a simple answer. 2-14 is almost as dead as dead can be.

houstonspartan
12-28-2009, 03:42 PM
I haven't really been on the Bill Cowher bandwagon. I like him, but not sure if he's the cure all (though I think he's better than Kubes).

ESPN is now reporting that John Fox is likely to be safe in Carolina.

If this is true, McNair needs to make a move RIGHT NOW. He needs to sit down and have a long talk with Bill Cowher. RIGHT NOW.

Texan_Bill
12-28-2009, 03:44 PM
I haven't really been on the Bill Cowher bandwagon. I like him, but not sure if he's the cure all (though I think he's better than Kubes).

ESPN is now reporting that John Fox is likely to be safe in Carolina.

If this is true, McNair needs to make a move RIGHT NOW. He needs to sit down and have a long talk with Bill Cowher. RIGHT NOW.

One of the post game shows was discussing this last night. They thought that as a combination of the no-capped season and a possible work stoppage after the 2010 season, not to mention Fox's buyout that they thought he would be safe as well.

gary
12-28-2009, 03:45 PM
You asked a simple question. You got a simple answer. 2-14 is almost as dead as dead can be.Just poking fun is all no harm.

Texan_Bill
12-28-2009, 03:46 PM
Just poking fun is all no harm.

No worries my man. You know me.

infantrycak
12-28-2009, 03:46 PM
The only "improvement" has been the creativity of the excuses.

Yeah because going from 24th D to 14th and 28th O to 5th is no improvement. Spare me the record rebuttal I full well know the record but acting like the team isn't better is asinine.

Thorn
12-28-2009, 03:49 PM
Yeah because going from 24th D to 14th and 28th O to 5th is no improvement. Spare me the record rebuttal I full well know the record but acting like the team isn't better is asinine.

One can certainly argue about Kubiak's over all win/loss record and why it is what it is, but you CAN'T argue with the fact he has greatly improved this team.

utahmark
12-28-2009, 03:49 PM
Yeah because going from 24th D to 14th and 28th O to 5th is no improvement. Spare me the record rebuttal I full well know the record but acting like the team isn't better is asinine.

exactly. we had a few bad breaks that has kept our record from showing improvement but most people can tell the improvement is there.

Texan_Bill
12-28-2009, 03:50 PM
One can certainly argue about Kubiak's over all win/loss record and why it is what it is, but you CAN'T argue with the fact he has greatly improved this team.

I might insert "considerably" for "greatly"' but Cak's and your points are very valid..

gary
12-28-2009, 03:51 PM
No worries my man. You know me.I just wanted to make sure the O line was not coming after me. Every O line in the league probably suffers from mad cow and the swine flu.

ObsiWan
12-28-2009, 03:52 PM
You are joking, right?

So you're saying you can GURANTEE us that Kubiak will take us to the playoffs?

Dude, no offense, but you talk like a loser. "Oh, we can't do anything until we are SURE we can move forward."

That's loser talk.

There are no freaking guarantees in anything.

None taken. And I knew that guarantee statement was facetious when I typed it. I expected y'all to jump all over it. I would have. :)
I just don't see anyone that could have done better with the hand we were dealt this year. I don't see anyone available that will do any better next year. I've posted time and again that I ain't impressed with Cowher. And like I said, there are probably as many misses that come with coaching changes than there are 'hits'.

One more year. That's all I'm askin'. If we don't make the playoffs next year, I'll supply the pitchforks and help you light the torches.
http://punditkitchen.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/political-pictures-rioting-crowd-torches-frankenstein.jpg (http://punditkitchen.com/2008/08/28/political-pictures-rioting-crowd-torches-frankenstein/)

Texan_Bill
12-28-2009, 03:52 PM
exactly. we had a few bad breaks that has kept our record from showing improvement but most people can tell the improvement is there.

Well if someone can't tell that the defense hasn't improved considerably, I'm not sure I would waste a lot of time debating them.

houstonspartan
12-28-2009, 03:52 PM
One can certainly argue about Kubiak's over all win/loss record and why it is what it is, but you CAN'T argue with the fact he has greatly improved this team.

Of course he has.

And you can't argue with the fact that he is a medoicre coach. That is a FACT. You're trying to put a creative spin on this w/l record, implying that it's not important.

Why do people not understand that w's and l's are important?

I'm thisclose to banging my head against a freaking wall.

Texan_Bill
12-28-2009, 03:53 PM
I just wanted to make sure the O line was not coming after me. Every O line in the league probably suffers from mad cow and the swine flu.

Winston may turn on you. Watch out!! lol

houstonspartan
12-28-2009, 03:54 PM
None taken. And I knew that guarantee statement was facetious when I typed it. I expected y'all to jump all over it. I would have. :)
I just don't see anyone that could have done better with the hand we were dealt this year. I don't see anyone available that will do any better next year. I've posted time and again that I ain't impressed with Cowher. And like I said, there are probably as many misses that come with coaching changes than there are 'hits'.

One more year. That's all I'm askin'. If we don't make the playoffs next year, I'll supply the pitchforks and help you light the torches.
http://punditkitchen.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/political-pictures-rioting-crowd-torches-frankenstein.jpg (http://punditkitchen.com/2008/08/28/political-pictures-rioting-crowd-torches-frankenstein/)


What is it you don't like about Cowher? Does his Super Bowl ring shine so bright that it blinds you and you need sunglasses?

No one could have done better with the hand we had this year? See, now I know you're joking with this one. That statement is so ridiculus it doesn't justify a response. LOL.

Texan_Bill
12-28-2009, 03:55 PM
Of course he has.

And you can't argue with the fact that he is a medoicre coach. That is a FACT. You're trying to put a creative spin on this w/l record, implying that it's not important.

Why do people not understand that w's and l's are important?

I'm thisclose to banging my head against a freaking wall.

Reading your posts, I'm already there. :brickwall:

Texan_Bill
12-28-2009, 03:55 PM
What is it you don't like about Cowher? Does his Super Bowl ring shine so bright that it blinds you and you need sunglasses?

No one could have done better with the hand we had this year? See, now I know you're joking with this one. That statement is so ridiculus it doesn't justify a response. LOL.

Yeah, that Super Bowl that took him 14 years to get? :rolleyes:

DeMarCushPoll
12-28-2009, 03:56 PM
I say we should all meet back here this time next year when the Texans are 13-2, have clinched the devision, a first round bye and home field throught the playoffs going in to the final week of the season.

houstonspartan
12-28-2009, 03:57 PM
Yeah, that Super Bowl that took him 14 years to get? :rolleyes:

LOL. No words.

Texan_Bill
12-28-2009, 03:57 PM
I say we should all meet back here this time next year when the Texans are 13-2, have clinched the devision, a first round bye and home field throught the playoffs going in to the final week of the season.

I'm buying the beer if that's the case.

ObsiWan
12-28-2009, 03:59 PM
You said rising. Is this a dead team? LOL.

It was.
You were here.
:)

Thorn
12-28-2009, 04:02 PM
And you can't argue with the fact that he is a medoicre coach. That is a FACT. You're trying to put a creative spin on this w/l record, implying that it's not important.


This is why internet debates FAIL.

I'm not putting a creative spin on anything there bub, I'm one of those calling for his head on platter. It's just I know I'm not getting that, so I go with the flow. I also give Kubes the credit he's due.

gary
12-28-2009, 04:03 PM
Winston may turn on you. Watch out!! lollol, was not just about him by any means as a matter of fact I think he is one of the members of the O line who has done a solid job this year not great but he gets the job done for the most part and still has time to iron out the kinks. IMO, he'd be better suited at RG rather than RT.

utahmark
12-28-2009, 04:05 PM
Of course he has.

And you can't argue with the fact that he is a medoicre coach. That is a FACT. You're trying to put a creative spin on this w/l record, implying that it's not important.

Why do people not understand that w's and l's are important?

I'm thisclose to banging my head against a freaking wall.

he is stating facts, not a creative spin.

houstonspartan
12-28-2009, 04:08 PM
he is stating facts, not a creative spin.

Uh, he appears to be brushing off the w/l scenario. My point is, you can NOT ignore wins and losses. I don't understand why people think you should. You can't - especially after four years.

utahmark
12-28-2009, 04:14 PM
Uh, he appears to be brushing off the w/l scenario. My point is, you can NOT ignore wins and losses. I don't understand why people think you should. You can't - especially after four years.

any one season you can't ignore wins and losses. its what makes your season. but in deciding to hire or fire a coach you have to look at the big picture. the way i see it we were not really an 8 and 8 team in 07(we overachieved). in 08 we finished about where we should have. this year we had some bad breaks and did'nt get to where we should be. i don't think one season with some bad breaks is enough to fire kubes. the 2 previous seasons we did about what we should have or better this is our first disappointing year and if you look for it you can still see plenty of improvement.

houstonspartan
12-28-2009, 04:19 PM
any one season you can't ignore wins and losses. its what makes your season. but in deciding to hire or fire a coach you have to look at the big picture. the way i see it we were not really an 8 and 8 team in 07(we overachieved). in 08 we finished about where we should have. this year we had some bad breaks and did'nt get to where we should be. i don't think one season with some bad breaks is enough to fire kubes. the 2 previous seasons we did about what we should have or better this is our first disappointing year and if you look for it you can still see plenty of improvement.

Oy!

Now you're saying that w's and l's over the long term aren't important, when they're MORE important because they are a gauge of how a team is really doing.

Dude, never mind.

DexmanC
12-28-2009, 04:22 PM
Yeah because going from 24th D to 14th and 28th O to 5th is no improvement. Spare me the record rebuttal I full well know the record but acting like the team isn't better is asinine.

I'm not asking them to scrap the TEAM. The TEAM has improved in SPITE
of its coach, Kubiak. They need to UPGRADE THE HEAD COACH SPOT if
they ever expect to be champions. Kubiak's stubborn adherence to
philosophies that get this team beat will continue to hinder the forward
progress of this squad.

We all agree this team is more talented than the '07 squad. They also
went 8-8. What held this team back from going 10-6 or 11-5? My opinion
is the COACH. You can't always blame Chris Brown for fumbling, when
it's Kubiak who puts him out there when Moats, Slaton, or Foster are
running better. You can't always blame Dreessen for dropping a touchdown,
when you have AJ, Slaton, Moats, Jones, or Walter to go to in another
play.

You can definitely blame lack of preparation for them racking up 100+ yards
in penalites against every winning team they've played this season. You
can definitely blame the coach for starting opening day the last two seasons
looking like a practice squad team.

....and many more. This team does NOT need to be overhauled after making
a changed at head coach. Please don't confuse the issue. I want this
team to succeed. I just think they'll struggle to do so with Kubiak at the
helm. You want me to omit discussing his record over the last 55 games
he's coached. It's awfully hard to do so, because the overall RESULT is
very apparent.

We can't continue to hide from wins/losses and expect to be champions
someday. Life and football don't work that way. Take responsibility, then
you'll have the power to change the results.

Texan_Bill
12-28-2009, 04:22 PM
Cheese and rice!! Do people only read what they want to read or is our collective comprehension skills at an all time low in this country?? :gun:

utahmark
12-28-2009, 04:27 PM
Oy!

Now you're saying that w's and l's over the long term aren't important, when they're MORE important because they are a gauge of how a team is really doing.

Dude, never mind.


i was talking about in any one season to get into the playoff's you have to consider wins and losses. there is other things to look at when your deciding to hire and fire a coach. considering where this team came from his overall win loss record is pretty good. if he would of taken a 10 win team and had this same win loss record that would not be as good.

you really hear what you want and dont try to figure out what is actually being said. ive got another 1 and a half hours to waist so we can keep it up if you like.:lol:

houstonspartan
12-28-2009, 04:29 PM
i was talking about in any one season to get into the playoff's you have to consider wins and losses. there is other things to look at when your deciding to hire and fire a coach. considering where this team came from his overall win loss record is pretty good. if he would of taken a 10 win team and had this same win loss record that would not be as good.

you really hear what you want and dont try to figure out what is actually being said. ive got another 1 and a half hours to waist so we can keep it up if you like.:lol:

No, I don't hear what I want. Maybe I misunderstood.

So, are you saying w's and l's are important or no?

If I misunderstood, I apologize.

DexmanC
12-28-2009, 04:29 PM
i was talking about in any one season to get into the playoff's you have to consider wins and losses. there is other things to look at when your deciding to hire and fire a coach. considering where this team came from his overall win loss record is pretty good. if he would of taken a 10 win team and had this same win loss record that would not be as good.

you really hear what you want and dont try to figure out what is actually being said. ive got another 1 and a half hours to waist so we can keep it up if you like.:lol:

It's good to pull the 2-14 card, but don't omit the fact that 2-14 happened
FOUR YEARS AGO! Talk about taking an 8-8 team, and continually have
them hovering around 8-8.

gary
12-28-2009, 04:29 PM
Cheese and rice!! Do people only read what they want to read or is our collective comprehension skills at an all time low in this country?? :gun:They are so high you just don't know. Don't you just love reruns of the same old stuff? I know I do. Popcorn coming right up.

Texan_Bill
12-28-2009, 04:31 PM
They are so high you just don't know. Don't you just love reruns of the same old stuff? I know I do. Popcorn coming right up.

:popcorn: I don't know about high, but definitely people read just want they want to read. As Thorn said, that's why internet debates FAIL.

houstonspartan
12-28-2009, 04:33 PM
:popcorn: I don't know about high, but definitely people read just want they want to read. As Thorn said, that's why internet debates FAIL.

True. People read what they want to read. And they make ridiculus assumptions. Like you bringing up Cowher taking 14 years to win a Super Bowl, as if that has anything to do with his abilities as a coach in 2009.

utahmark
12-28-2009, 04:37 PM
No, I don't hear what I want. Maybe I misunderstood.

So, are you saying w's and l's are important or no?

If I misunderstood, I apologize.

they are important. over a period of 4 or 5 years they pretty much tell the whole story. but you have to consider where this team came from and where it is headed. to me this is kubes first disapointing season. if he has another one next year its more than a fluke and i will get some soap from you. but for now i'm going to stay with him based on continued improvement from this team(even though we are not seeing it in the win/loss column).

DexmanC
12-28-2009, 04:37 PM
We're 8-8, but we have the 3rd ranked offense.
We're 8-8, but our defense went from 24th to 14th
We're 8-8, but we have the most prolific passer and
receiver combo.

We're 8-8!!!

LOL

gary
12-28-2009, 04:40 PM
:popcorn: I don't know about high, but definitely people read just want they want to read. As Thorn said, that's why internet debates FAIL.This debate is like the Shrine curcus.:clown::clown::clown:

TheCD
12-28-2009, 04:41 PM
I just wanted to post this because this thread is becoming redundant with the same comments over and over. So here's some coaches with disappointing starts:

Tom Landry:
0-11
4-9
5-8
4-10
5-8
7-7
10-3

Jeff Fisher:
7-9
8-8
8-8
8-8
13-3

Bill Belichik:
6-10 (Browns)
7-9
7-9
11-5
5-11
5-11 (Patriots)
11-5

Just some stuff to debate about whether you would have wanted these coaches to go or not.

worldlyman
12-28-2009, 04:41 PM
Softest schedule the Texans have had. And they managed to blow 4 division games in a row.



That is good. But that is between the 20's mostly. And usually in one half of a game.



If you would have read my post you would have seen my explanation of that. The only reason we are still in the playoff hunt is because the other teams contending for a wildcard spot are hovering around the .500 mark. They are invading our mediocre territory.



I like our defense. But that is because of Bush not Kubiak.



Under Kubiak the Texans have been 3-3, 1-5, 2-4 and 1-5 against the teams in our division. If we can't beat those teams (that we face twice a year) then we will never go anywhere.



None of those plays were for the win.



Yep. Looks like you got us with those details.



Stats and close losses do nothing for us. We need wins and consistant play for 60 minutes a game for 16 games. We have the talent to beat any team in the NFL. The frustrating part is Kubiak doesn't know how to use it. The Texans are the most up and down team week to week and game half to game half in the NFL. This is a direct reflection of our hc not being able to prepare his team properly imho.

Well, I'm amazed how I haven't read any rational solutions for replacing Kubiak. There are the Bill Cowher pipe dreams, surely.

The absolutists wanted their dominant team THIS SEASON while myself, I had them at 7-9 to 9-7. They had crucial question marks from last season. What really made you think this was a bonafide 12-4 or 11-5 team this year? They were a few plays from being there, for sure. Nonetheless, the Texans sure answered a lot of questions in the positive affirmative. Now, the just have to fill in some gaps and revive the running game for next season and beyond.

Facts are facts. Their overall field performance and statistical production have BEEN MEASURABLY BETTER than any past Texans season...and you knee-jerks can't deny that.

This doesn't always translate to wins but if they indeed serve as a positive springboard to next year (a term that you cynics hate but you'll all still be back then, eh?), all the better.

And the players have played HARD for Kubiak all year, even if there were some gridiron brain farts scattered about. At 5-7, they could have quit and looked forward to another coach. But Kubiak has their respect and on top of the tangible improvements, there's another reason to keep Gary.

And it's funny. You Kubiak bashers don't know what you are talking about at times, if at all.

Giving credit to exclusively to Frank Bush as such? If I'm not mistaken, Bush had been a long time Kubiak first-choice if not for stipulations preventing him from coming on board. I guess Kubiak can make some good decisions that positively affect the program after all!

The last second field goals and last TD attempt didn't have to be game winners. A shot at OT is much better than losing by a skid! Ah, the perspective here.

Don't we all want 60 minutes of dominant football? Unless it's something like the '85 Bears or '04 Patriots or '91 Redskins, you're not going to get that out of the Texans...just yet. Certainly this work in progress wouldn't have provided it this season. But, no, it's not a reason to fire Coach Kubiak.

And 60 minutes of dominant, excuse me, "consistent" football? Some games, the opposing teams actually will earn their paychecks and get off the turf and fight back.

I don't see what was so "soft" about that brutal Colts-Titans-Colts-Jags stretch. The Texans caught those teams when they were on a surge (and consider the last Jacksonville game when Schaub's temporary injury situation afforded the Jags a nice handicap!). Other than that, the Texans achieved 8-3. They took care of that side of business at least. They beat a good 5-1 Bengals team, a solidly coached 3-2 49ers team, an early season Titans team that still had its swagger and pressure to mitigate that opening day loss...

Things change. Once upon a time, the newly christened Seattle Seahawks of 1976 never defeated the San Diego Chargers for close to 5 or 6 years in the AFC West of olde. Then once the Air Coryell talent cycled out...those Seahawks started CRUSHING the Chargers ROUTINELY the next few years. Those Seahawks were a pretty good competitive team heading into the mid-1980s.

Analogy? The young Texans will continue to improve big time...and the Colts will be another year older.

And I believe the revamped Texans run defense for 2010-2011 will be much better than the one that started this season...giving Houston a more substantive chance of equalizing, if not containing, the likes of Maurice Jones-Drew and Chris Johnson. All the while, let's see the Titans, Jags and Colts stop the ever hotter Texans offense consistently, especially when the injured pieces come back!

houstonspartan
12-28-2009, 04:41 PM
they are important. over a period of 4 or 5 years they pretty much tell the whole story. but you have to consider where this team came from and where it is headed. to me this is kubes first disapointing season. if he has another one next year its more than a fluke and i will get some soap from you. but for now i'm going to stay with him based on continued improvement from this team(even though we are not seeing it in the win/loss column).

Trust me, I know what this team has been through. I've been a ticket holder for a while now, and have seen it all at Reliant.

Sure, we all know where this team has come from. But at what point do we say, "Hmm. Let's look at Gary's coaching." Never?

utahmark
12-28-2009, 04:42 PM
We're 8-8, but we have the 3rd ranked offense.
We're 8-8, but our defense went from 24th to 14th
We're 8-8, but we have the most prolific passer and
receiver combo.

We're 8-8!!!

LOL

new england missed the playoff's last year, but they went 11 and 5
new england missed the playoff's last year, but they were one of the best teams in the league.
new england missed the playoff's last year, but tom brady was hurt.

new enland still missed the playoff's last year.

houstonspartan
12-28-2009, 04:43 PM
I just wanted to post this because this thread is becoming redundant with the same comments over and over. So here's some coaches with disappointing starts:

Tom Landry:
0-11
4-9
5-8
4-10
5-8
7-7
10-3

Jeff Fisher:
7-9
8-8
8-8
8-8
13-3

Bill Belichik:
6-10 (Browns)
7-9
7-9
11-5
5-11
5-11 (Patriots)
11-5

Just some stuff to debate about whether you would have wanted these coaches to go or not.


LOL!!!! The Tom Landry argument is back! LOL!!

And, you are aware that Bellecheck was FIRED from Cleveland, and didn't become a great coach until me moved on, yes?

I agree, though, that this debate is becoming repetitive.

houstonspartan
12-28-2009, 04:45 PM
new england missed the playoff's last year, but they went 11 and 5
new england missed the playoff's last year, but they were one of the best teams in the league.
new england missed the playoff's last year, but tom brady was hurt.

new enland still missed the playoff's last year.

Now THAT was some flat out bad luck. Things didn't fall for them at all last year, and they got hosed.

As I've always said, I never demanded the playoffs this year. I just wanted some clean, consistent football with about 10 wins and improvement in the division.

I honestly don't think that's too much to ask for in year 4.

TheCD
12-28-2009, 04:46 PM
LOL!!!! The Tom Landry argument is back! LOL!!
And, you are aware that Bellecheck was FIRED from Cleveland, and didn't become a great coach until me moved on, yes?

I agree, though, that this debate is becoming repetitive.

I think you don't understand the point of the post. I'm not arguing either way...the point is this debate is becoming repetitive, so at the very least let's look at both sides with 20-20 vision and see what might have been the better option. Most all of us have a fondness for Tom Landry, but that's not to say there's no way the Cowboys couldn't have the same success with someone else after such a disappointing start.

DexmanC
12-28-2009, 04:48 PM
I just wanted to post this because this thread is becoming redundant with the same comments over and over. So here's some coaches with disappointing starts:

Tom Landry:
0-11
4-9
5-8
4-10
5-8
7-7
10-3

Jeff Fisher:
7-9
8-8
8-8
8-8
13-3

Bill Belichik:
6-10 (Browns)
7-9
7-9
11-5
5-11
5-11 (Patriots)
11-5

Just some stuff to debate about whether you would have wanted these coaches to go or not.

Get Gary a suit and top hat, and ENSHRINE HIS ASS!!

houstonspartan
12-28-2009, 04:49 PM
Well, I'm amazed how I haven't read any rational solutions for replacing Kubiak. There are the Bill Cowher pipe dreams, surely.

The absolutists wanted their dominant team THIS SEASON while myself, I had them at 7-9 to 9-7. They had question marks from last season. What really made you think this was a bonafide 12-4 or 11-5 team this year? They were a few plays from being there, for sure. Nonetheless, the Texans sure answered a lot of questions in the positive affirmative. Now, the just have to fill in some gaps and revive the running game for next season and beyond.

Facts are facts. Their overall field performance and statistical production have BEEN MEASURABLY BETTER than any past Texans season...and you knee-jerks can't deny that.

This doesn't always translate to wins but if they indeed serve as a positive springboard to next year (a term that you cynics hate but you'll all still be back then, eh?), all the better.

And the players have played HARD for Kubiak all year, even if there were some gridiron brain farts scattered about. At 5-7, they could have quit and looked forward to another coach. But Kubiak has their respect and on top of the tangible improvements, there's another reason to keep Gary.

And it's funny. You Kubiak bashers don't know what you are talking about at times, if at all.

Giving credit to exclusively to Frank Bush as such? If I'm not mistaken, Bush had been a long time Kubiak first-choice if not for stipulations preventing him from coming on board. I guess Kubiak can make some good decisions that positively affect the program after all!

The last second field goals and last TD attempt didn't have to be game winners. A shot at OT is much better than losing by a skid! Ah, the perspective here.

Things change. Once upon a time, the newly christened Seattle Seahawks of 1976 never defeated the San Diego Chargers for close to 5 or 6 years in the AFC West of olde. Then once the Air Coryell talent cycled out...those Seahawks started CRUSHING the Chargers ROUTINELY the next few years. Those Seahawks were a pretty good competitive team heading into the mid-1980s.

Analogy? The young Texans will continue to improve big time...and the Colts will be another year older.

And I believe the revamped Texans run defense for 2010-2011 will be much better than the one that started this season...giving Houston a more substantive chance of equalizing, if not containing, the likes of Maurice Jones-Drew and Chris Johnson. All the while, let's see the Titans, Jags and Colts stop the ever hotter Texans offense consistently, especially when the injured pieces come back!

Dang, man, I really wanted to give you a rep because I liked your positive attitude. But, alas, I can't.

You say that we dont' know what we're talking about. Yet you say the players have played hard for Kubiak all year. You were in the locker room and at practices?

You say facts are facts, and add that our stats have been better this year. Ok, I agree with that. Score one for you.

But, FACTS ARE FACTS: Our w and l record sucks, our divison record over the last for years sucks, or division record this year sucks.

These are facts, my friend.

Statistically, yeah, we're on fire. It's been an exciting year watching some of these guys. But I just wanted those stats to become more w's.

houstonspartan
12-28-2009, 04:50 PM
I think you don't understand the point of the post. I'm not arguing either way...the point is this debate is becoming repetitive, so at the very least let's look at both sides with 20-20 vision and see what might have been the better option. Most all of us have a fondness for Tom Landry, but that's not to say there's no way the Cowboys couldn't have the same success with someone else after such a disappointing start.

Oh ok. My bad. I did read that wrong.

Thanks for pointing it out, and, I agree with you.

ObsiWan
12-28-2009, 04:51 PM
What is it you don't like about Cowher? Does his Super Bowl ring shine so bright that it blinds you and you need sunglasses?

No one could have done better with the hand we had this year? See, now I know you're joking with this one. That statement is so ridiculus it doesn't justify a response. LOL.

Cowher was handed a team full of pro bowlers and a couple of Hall of Famers. His Steelers were in the division with the (at the time) sucky Oilers, the on-and-off Bengals, and the Browns and it STILL took him 14 years to produce that bright, shiny ring. And if the refs hadn't helped them against the Seahawks, he wouldn't have that. The very next year, they went 8-8.

Following that, instead of trying to get to the mountain top, with the team he built, one more time, he quit.

Sorry, not impressed.

gary
12-28-2009, 04:53 PM
Gary just called me and he is reading this thread as we speak cringing so he told me to start a group ownership like they have in Green Bay nothing would ever get done.

Double Barrel
12-28-2009, 04:55 PM
Cheese and rice!! Do people only read what they want to read or is our collective comprehension skills at an all time low in this country?? :gun:

Both!

I think it's such a fine line in this particular debate that a solid and dubious case can be made for both sides.

That being said, I think McNair falls on the side of giving Kubiak one more year, and I can live with that. It's safe in one way but dangerous in another.

I just wanted to see improvement year-to-year, and 9-7 would be an improvement. Beat the Patriots and meet my expectations/goal, and I will throw my hat behind Kubiak. I'm not 100% for the guy, but I am not a fan of firing a coach after a winning season (much less our first in team history). I always hated Bud for firing Bum after a winning season, so I don't want McNair following that turd's lead.

Speaking of Bum, this quote seems right for this thread: "There's two kinds of coaches, them that's fired and them that's gonna be fired." :howdy:

houstonspartan
12-28-2009, 04:56 PM
Cowher was handed a team full of pro bowlers and a couple of Hall of Famers. His Steelers were in the division with the (at the time) sucky Oilers, the on-and-off Bengals, and the Browns and it STILL took him 14 years to produce that bright, shiny ring. And if the refs hadn't helped them against the Seahawks, he wouldn't have that. The very next year, they went 8-8.

Following that, instead of trying to get to the mountain top, with the team he built, one more time, he quit.

Sorry, not impressed.

And you're impressed with Kubiak.

LOL.

Double Barrel
12-28-2009, 05:00 PM
Cowher was handed a team full of pro bowlers and a couple of Hall of Famers. His Steelers were in the division with the (at the time) sucky Oilers, the on-and-off Bengals, and the Browns and it STILL took him 14 years to produce that bright, shiny ring. And if the refs hadn't helped them against the Seahawks, he wouldn't have that. The very next year, they went 8-8.

Following that, instead of trying to get to the mountain top, with the team he built, one more time, he quit.

Sorry, not impressed.

Hey now! Cowher took the reigns in 1992, and the Oilers went 10-6 that year and 12-4 the next year. They didn't get sucky until '94. ;)

gary
12-28-2009, 05:01 PM
All this talk and now I missed the Kubiak presser today damn.

worldlyman
12-28-2009, 05:02 PM
Dang, man, I really wanted to give you a rep because I liked your positive attitude. But, alas, I can't.

You say that we dont' know what we're talking about. Yet you say the players have played hard for Kubiak all year. You were in the locker room and at practices?

You say facts are facts, and add that our stats have been better this year. Ok, I agree with that. Score one for you.

But, FACTS ARE FACTS: Our w and l record sucks, our divison record over the last for years sucks, or division record this year sucks.

These are facts, my friend.

Statistically, yeah, we're on fire. It's been an exciting year watching some of these guys. But I just wanted those stats to become more w's.

Facts are facts, my friend. Gary Kubiak has assembled things in the right direction...and he's coming back next year.

More w's will come next season. I feel it. I didn't think these Texans were 12-4 or 11-5 material just yet this year. My prediction range for this year was around 7-9 to 9-7. All I wanted to see was consolidation of this team's overall direction toward the near future. I'm not disappointed with that aspect. I love what the offense has established and what the defense has rapidly established with the additions of Pollard and Cushing.

houstonspartan
12-28-2009, 05:04 PM
I think the reason I'm so worked up is because I'm a season ticket holder, and I honestly, truly don't know what I'm going to do about next year. For the first time ever, I'm thinking of not renewing. I love this team, these players, and even the stadium.

But the thought of Kubaik returning depresses me, for some reason.

infantrycak
12-28-2009, 05:07 PM
I missed part of the segment but I thought the 610 am guys had an interesting trivia tidbit that no coach who had won a Super Bowl with one team had gone on to win one with another team.

gary
12-28-2009, 05:14 PM
I missed part of the segment but I thought the 610 am guys had an interesting trivia tidbit that no coach who had won a Super Bowl with one team had gone on to win one with another team.There have been a few who have won the Super Bowl and then had trouble getting out of the tolilet bowl.

ObsiWan
12-28-2009, 05:18 PM
Gary just called me and he is reading this thread as we speak cringing so he told me to start a group ownership like they have in Green Bay nothing would ever get done.

LOL...

Well, that's always a problem with committees.
LOL

Double Barrel
12-28-2009, 05:24 PM
I missed part of the segment but I thought the 610 am guys had an interesting trivia tidbit that no coach who had won a Super Bowl with one team had gone on to win one with another team.

I've heard that, and I find it funny. Texans fans talking about Super Bowls?!? :mcnugget:

I'd take a 11-5 Marty team that loses in the playoffs over a habitual 8-8 team, y'know?

Another stat in that regard: no team has ever won the Super Bowl that did not have a winning seasonal record. ;)

ObsiWan
12-28-2009, 05:26 PM
Facts are facts, my friend. Gary Kubiak has assembled things in the right direction...and he's coming back next year.

More w's will come next season. I feel it. I didn't think these Texans were 12-4 or 11-5 material just yet this year. My prediction range for this year was around 7-9 to 9-7. All I wanted to see was consolidation of this team's overall direction toward the near future. I'm not disappointed with that aspect. I love what the offense has established and what the defense has rapidly established with the additions of Pollard and Cushing.

I'm with you there. I let what looked like a weak schedule seduce me into thinking 10-6 was doable. But I knew we would need to be relatively injury-free in key positions and have a bit of luck. We weren't injury-free and didn't catch enough luck - like the Jets did yesterday.
So here we are.

gary
12-28-2009, 05:26 PM
LOL...

Well, that's always a problem with committees.
LOLYou'll get your one more year I'm just very depressed I miss the presser today. LOL

ObsiWan
12-28-2009, 05:28 PM
I think the reason I'm so worked up is because I'm a season ticket holder, and I honestly, truly don't know what I'm going to do about next year. For the first time ever, I'm thinking of not renewing. I love this team, these players, and even the stadium.

But the thought of Kubaik returning depresses me, for some reason.

Where are your seats?

you know, just in case....
:)

utahmark
12-28-2009, 05:30 PM
I'm with you there. I let what looked like a weak schedule seduce me into thinking 10-6 was doable. But I knew we would need to be relatively injury-free in key positions and have a bit of luck. We weren't injury-free and didn't catch enough luck - like the Jets did yesterday.
So here we are.

not me. i think this is a 10 or 11 win team that did'nt live up to its potential. i just don't entirely blame the coach. there were a lot of factors involved, luck(or lack of it) was one of them.

infantrycak
12-28-2009, 05:33 PM
not me. i think this is a 10 or 11 win team that did'nt live up to its potential. i just don't entirely blame the coach. there were a lot of factors involved, luck(or lack of it) was one of them.

That's where I am. I think this team underachieved and easily could have 2-3 more wins.

I've heard that, and I find it funny. Texans fans talking about Super Bowls?!? :mcnugget:

I'd take a 11-5 Marty team that loses in the playoffs over a habitual 8-8 team, y'know?

I hear you. I just don't think they were that far away this year.

Another stat in that regard: no team has ever won the Super Bowl that did not have a winning seasonal record. ;)

No, but the Cards got to the show last year at 9-7. I'd take that over 11-5 and losing in the playoffs.

houstonspartan
12-28-2009, 05:38 PM
Where are your seats?

you know, just in case....
:)

There are thousands of tickets available.

houstonspartan
12-28-2009, 05:39 PM
I've heard that, and I find it funny. Texans fans talking about Super Bowls?!? :mcnugget:

I'd take a 11-5 Marty team that loses in the playoffs over a habitual 8-8 team, y'know?

Another stat in that regard: no team has ever won the Super Bowl that did not have a winning seasonal record. ;)

Wow, I totally agree with this.

utahmark
12-28-2009, 05:39 PM
That's where I am. I think this team underachieved and easily could have 2-3 more wins.

honestly if i thought we were not more talanted than 8 and 8 i would be wondering what has been going on the last 4 years and why we don't have a team with more potential. my whole arguement today has been that we are better than our record.

gary
12-28-2009, 05:51 PM
Diamond Rio nailed it right on the head.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UWx-shGM0g

DexmanC
12-28-2009, 05:55 PM
Based on past history, I expect this team to play like uncoordinated
garbage in preseason. I expect them to start opening day looking like
practice squadders, and for them to make our opponent look like Superbowl
Champions.

I surely hope they surprise me. I have no lofty expectations of a Kubiak-led
team. Until they show evidence of the contrary, they will be under this
regime, a perennial 7-9 to 9-7 powerhouse. THE BEST LOOKING MEDIOCRE
TEAM IN THE NFL, DAMMIT!

TEXANRED
12-28-2009, 05:57 PM
I think the reason I'm so worked up is because I'm a season ticket holder, and I honestly, truly don't know what I'm going to do about next year. For the first time ever, I'm thinking of not renewing. I love this team, these players, and even the stadium.

But the thought of Kubaik returning depresses me, for some reason.

Where are your seats?

Double Barrel
12-28-2009, 06:02 PM
That's where I am. I think this team underachieved and easily could have 2-3 more wins.

I hear you. I just don't think they were that far away this year.


Out of all the pro-Kubiak arguments, I find this one to be the most solid. It has been the closest season yet in our short history, so it's just a matter of believing that Kubiak can learn from his mistakes to be a better head coach and that the team has collectively learned from the close wins/losses to be in better position for next year (or even this year if the wind gets in our sails).

No, but the Cards got to the show last year at 9-7. I'd take that over 11-5 and losing in the playoffs.

yep, any day of the week.

honestly if i thought we were not more talanted than 8 and 8 i would be wondering what has been going on the last 4 years and why we don't have a team with more potential. my whole arguement today has been that we are better than our record.

I tend to think in the perspective of the Bill Parcells quote ("you are what your record says you are"), but I can see your point of view in analysis. Coulda/shoulda/woulda and all that jazz, but we have been very competitive with the exception of the first game.

It really comes down to the question of Kubiak and if he can get this group of players (with some off-season upgrades) to get over that hump.

gary
12-28-2009, 06:10 PM
Please just fire the cop outside the lockeroom and the water boy already enough is enough.

Thorn
12-28-2009, 06:12 PM
It really comes down to the question of Kubiak and if he can get this group of players (with some off-season upgrades) to get over that hump.

All any of us can do right now is make a guess at it with our own preconceptions. Unless something unthinkable happens this Sunday, Kubiak will be back next year.

Double Barrel
12-28-2009, 06:16 PM
All any of us can do right now is make a guess at it with our own preconceptions. Unless something unthinkable happens this Sunday, Kubiak will be back next year.

yep, and I hope folks choose to be o.k. with that decision. I don't think I can take the next 8 months of bitchin' after McNair makes public his decision. (I honestly think McNair's decision is already made, win or lose next Sunday.)

I think 9-7 would go a long way toward putting some sugar with that medicine, though. We just need Mary Poppins to land on Reliant next Sunday and twirl her little umbrella to induce the Patriots into losing. And that's my obscure Disney movie reference showing my age. :D

Thorn
12-28-2009, 06:22 PM
yep, and I hope folks choose to be o.k. with that decision. I don't think I can take the next 8 months of bitchin' after McNair makes public his decision. (I honestly think McNair's decision is already made, win or lose next Sunday.)

I think 9-7 would go a long way toward putting some sugar with that medicine, though. We just need Mary Poppins to land on Reliant next Sunday and twirl her little umbrella to induce the Patriots into losing. And that's my obscure Disney movie reference showing my age. :D

Well, my preseason prediction was either 9-7 or 10-6, so they are right in line with that if they win. It's just I thought the route to 9-7 would be considerably different. I would have NEVER predicted they'd lose those four division games in a row.

infantrycak
12-28-2009, 06:37 PM
I tend to think in the perspective of the Bill Parcells quote ("you are what your record says you are"), but I can see your point of view in analysis. Coulda/shoulda/woulda and all that jazz, but we have been very competitive with the exception of the first game.

This is what has me on the fence. When Kubiak got here we were a doormat that even the 0-16 Lions fans would probably have been checking off as a win. Now there isn't a team in the league taking the Texans for granted. On any given Sunday isn't some pipe dream hope now. We've never been top half of the league on both sides of the ball before. I understand the concerns about not playing 60 minutes, etc. but reverse that thought for a minute - this team is competing and putting up big numbers only playing halves. Solve just that one issue and what do they do? Every year before we have been looking for some big pieces - a QB, a RB, a LT, a #2 WR, a #2 DE, a FS, an OLB, etc. Sure there are spots to improve this off-season but they are competitive now. Play whole games and they are more than competitive.

Lucky
12-28-2009, 06:45 PM
Next years schedule is going to be brutal enough with the team that we have without having to throw in a new coach and a new system and everything else that goes with change. Not only are we going to have to play our divisional schedule, but also the NFC East. And to top that if we do finish second in our division we get the 2nd place schedule.
Because the schedule is so tough next season, Gary Kubiak is the right man for the job? Despite his horrific record of 4-10 versus winning teams over the past 2 seasons? I don't follow that logic.

The Texans will lkely play 7 games versus 2009 playoff teams next year. All but 3 of their games will feature opponents with .500 records or better. I understand some are afraid of change. But, your asking Gary Kubiak to completely reverse his trend against good teams. Without change, there will be no change. A running back and center won't turn this team into a division winner. The understanding of how to win combined with the will to see it through is what will be required. Do you really believe Gary Kubiak possesses those traits? He hasn't shown them in 4 seasons.

infantrycak
12-28-2009, 06:47 PM
A running back and center won't turn this team into a division winner.

A RB who doesn't fumble and a C or let's say last year's rushing game and the Texans wouldn't have won the division this year but they would be locked into a playoff spot right now.

euro-Texan
12-28-2009, 07:01 PM
Because the schedule is so tough next season, Gary Kubiak is the right man for the job? Despite his horrific record of 4-10 versus winning teams over the past 2 seasons? I don't follow that logic.

The Texans will lkely play 7 games versus 2009 playoff teams next year. All but 3 of their games will feature opponents with .500 records or better. I understand some are afraid of change. But, your asking Gary Kubiak to completely reverse his trend against good teams. Without change, there will be no change. A running back and center won't turn this team into a division winner. The understanding of how to win combined with the will to see it through is what will be required. Do you really believe Gary Kubiak possesses those traits? He hasn't shown them in 4 seasons.

That implies he had this team for four seasons. I get the change argument. We have seen other teams make coaching changes that paid immediate dividends, such as Atlanta and Miami, but in Miami's case at least that change came through a wildcat scheme that was only effective until everyone figured it out. Now we see how effective it was in the long hall. It reminds me of Jack Pardees run and shoot. Kubiak inhearited a TURD! He hinished the first two season ahead of my expectations, played right up to expectations last year and this year has only fallen a little short.

If we do fire Kubiak this year, big name coaches will be licking their chops to take what Kubiak is building to the next level. That wasn't the case four years ago. I don't think we will regress ala the Browns, Lions or Raiders with another coaching change, but the more time this coach has to build his team the better we can expect them to be. I say one more year.

Lucky
12-28-2009, 07:19 PM
A RB who doesn't fumble and a C or let's say last year's rushing game and the Texans wouldn't have won the division this year but they would be locked into a playoff spot right now.
Forget Slaton for a moment. I'm not sure any of his numerous fumbles led directly to losses. But, wasn't it Gary Kubiak who eschewed additional RBs this offseason, because he felt the answers were in house (Brown & Moats)? Now, we can count on him getting a RB who doesn't fumble?

And how much of the Texans rushing woes are schematic, versus personnel related? The Texans have put together one season where they have finished in the top half of the league in rushing (13th). Is 2009 the aberration or was 2008 a fluke? I don't know. But, there's no reason to be confident that a couple players will turn that around. Unless one of them happens to be Adrian Peterson.

Let's pretend that the running game gets fixed in 2010. Wasn't it said that all this team needs is an average defense in order to become a playoff team? Well, the Texans defense is now 15th in yardage and 14th in points. That's average. Another leak sprung up. There's always going to be a leak. There are no perfect teams. It is how deficiencies are handled that determines success. Sometimes sheer will overcomes weakness. Gary Kubiak has proven that he cannot handle adversity. 2010 will be chock full of adversity. He's the wrong man, and the Texans will waste yet another season finding that out.

Lucky
12-28-2009, 07:23 PM
If we do fire Kubiak this year, big name coaches will be licking their chops to take what Kubiak is building to the next level.
Yes! That is exactly what I am saying!

Someone finally gets me.:flowers:

Fred
12-28-2009, 07:26 PM
Unless something unthinkable happens this Sunday, Kubiak will be back next year.

You mean like Chris Brown or Kris Brown throwing a pass?

Thorn
12-28-2009, 07:32 PM
You mean like Chris Brown or Kris Brown throwing a pass?

DON'T SAY THAT EVER AGAIN! :eek:

infantrycak
12-28-2009, 07:50 PM
Forget Slaton for a moment. I'm not sure any of his numerous fumbles led directly to losses. But, wasn't it Gary Kubiak who eschewed additional RBs this offseason, because he felt the answers were in house (Brown & Moats)? Now, we can count on him getting a RB who doesn't fumble?

Count on, no but nothing can be counted on from this or any other coach in that regard. SS didn't have a fumble problem last year and now he does. That couldn't be counted on. Neither could every other RB on the roster dropping the ball.

And how much of the Texans rushing woes are schematic, versus personnel related?

My opinion it is personnel. If Kubiak stays I would expect that to be addressed.

The Texans have put together one season where they have finished in the top half of the league in rushing (13th). Is 2009 the aberration or was 2008 a fluke? I don't know. But, there's no reason to be confident that a couple players will turn that around. Unless one of them happens to be Adrian Peterson.

I said nothing about being confident other than IF this team could run the ball they would be a playoff team. I'd like thru FA and draft pick up a C/OG and RB as high priorities. Treat SS as a bonus if he comes back.

Let's pretend that the running game gets fixed in 2010. Wasn't it said that all this team needs is an average defense in order to become a playoff team? Well, the Texans defense is now 15th in yardage and 14th in points. That's average. Another leak sprung up. There's always going to be a leak. There are no perfect teams. It is how deficiencies are handled that determines success. Sometimes sheer will overcomes weakness. Gary Kubiak has proven that he cannot handle adversity. 2010 will be chock full of adversity. He's the wrong man, and the Texans will waste yet another season finding that out.

There will always be weaker pieces to the team. There will not always be gaping holes. Nobody expected the running game to totally crater this year. You're certain on Kubiak and that's fine but I am on the fence. I just don't see the Texans as that far from post-season success.

GP
12-28-2009, 08:43 PM
A RB who doesn't fumble and a C or let's say last year's rushing game and the Texans wouldn't have won the division this year but they would be locked into a playoff spot right now.

Horse hockey!

If we didn't have a head coach who goes into a turtle shell when we have a lead, as well as getting "cute" with the playcalling in the Red Zone and during critical situations, then we are in the playoffs.

Kubiak plays Jacoby all season long, and we probably get at least one or two more wins because of the way JJ has played this year as a WR. How he has not been a bigger player in this offense is beyond my limited football mind, I suppose.

The Miami game was PROOF POSITIVE that this team is led by a coach who affects his players' mentality. It wasn't the players who went into a shell in the 2nd half. You could see it in Kubiak's body language: He was content with trying to let the clock wear down. It was a "prevent" mentality the whole way in the 2nd half.

It wasn't a player's fault that we kept Chris Brown out there and coughed up the ball...once again...in a game-sealing situation. Chris Brown has cost us games--He shouldn't even be on this roster AT ALL!!! That's a coaching problem.

Not getting Cedric Benson was a Kubiak problem. Did Kubiak really feel super-confident that Steve Slaton would make it all season without an injury? That Moats and Brown would be adequate filler material IF Steve Slaton were to get hurt? You tell Benson that Steve has in NO way earned the title of "starter" and that you feel very comfortable giving him (Benson) a great number of snaps to let him show his stuff.

I'd have loved to have Benson's rushing yardage that he's had this year.

This team's leader (Kubiak) is a real prize.

Great builder of offenses, don't get me wrong, but the gameday decisions and roster decisions are screwy.

When are we going to have unanimous agreement that Gary Kubiak can't coach a complete game?!?! He can't!

I sat at my mom and dad's house this past Sunday, during the 2nd half of the Dolphins game, and couldn't believe that we were allowing Miami to come back like we did. My dad's not even a Texans fan (says he watches a little bit of the games) and he sat there and told me exactly what I and others on here have been saying: How can the Texans play so well, and then blow the game in so many bizarre ways?

I looked at him and said "Our coach is messed up. He's in wayyy over his head. Builds a nice offense, but he has no gameday decision-making skills."

Silver Oak
12-28-2009, 09:29 PM
http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/trek_hmm.gif (http://www.threadbombing.com/details.php?image_id=4424)

Cjeremy635
12-28-2009, 09:57 PM
Forget Slaton for a moment. I'm not sure any of his numerous fumbles led directly to losses. But, wasn't it Gary Kubiak who eschewed additional RBs this offseason, because he felt the answers were in house (Brown & Moats)? Now, we can count on him getting a RB who doesn't fumble?

And how much of the Texans rushing woes are schematic, versus personnel related? The Texans have put together one season where they have finished in the top half of the league in rushing (13th). Is 2009 the aberration or was 2008 a fluke? I don't know. But, there's no reason to be confident that a couple players will turn that around. Unless one of them happens to be Adrian Peterson.

Let's pretend that the running game gets fixed in 2010. Wasn't it said that all this team needs is an average defense in order to become a playoff team? Well, the Texans defense is now 15th in yardage and 14th in points. That's average. Another leak sprung up. There's always going to be a leak. There are no perfect teams. It is how deficiencies are handled that determines success. Sometimes sheer will overcomes weakness. Gary Kubiak has proven that he cannot handle adversity. 2010 will be chock full of adversity. He's the wrong man, and the Texans will waste yet another season finding that out.


OK, but consider how they started out the season. You can not honestly say that they are playing at the same level they were the first 3 weeks....when we lost 2 of the first 3 games. This defense has improved, I can't argue with that, but it wasn't the case right out of the gate.

As far as the running game goes...who the hell would have thought that Slaton would have taken a nose dive this year? I sure as hell didn't and I did not place RB as a priority in the offseason at all. I think the loss of Pitts has really hurt the O-line as well, maybe moreso than many want to admit. I think the center play sucks and also contributes to the piss-poor run game. But, I can't argue with all of your points...there are some valid ones in there. I just think you tend to spin some of the things negatively to meet your agenda and I may tend to ignore some things to meet mine. It's really a no win situation and it's going to be a really long offseason.....:rake:

ObsiWan
12-29-2009, 01:39 AM
There are thousands of tickets available.

I get tickets from my friends whenever they can't go to a game.

ObsiWan
12-29-2009, 02:18 AM
Horse hockey!

The Miami game was PROOF POSITIVE that this team is led by a coach who affects his players' mentality. It wasn't the players who went into a shell in the 2nd half. You could see it in Kubiak's body language: He was content with trying to let the clock wear down. It was a "prevent" mentality the whole way in the 2nd half.

What about the bad pass to A.J. on our 1st possession of the 2nd half. Schaub throws a good pass to A.J. he's off to the races. Two plays later Schaub throws a pick. I guess the missed pass and the pick are on Kubiak too. They were all part of his masterplan to shut down our offense in the second half.



It wasn't a player's fault that we kept Chris Brown out there and coughed up the ball...once again...in a game-sealing situation. Chris Brown has cost us games--He shouldn't even be on this roster AT ALL!!! That's a coaching problem.

Not getting Cedric Benson was a Kubiak problem. Did Kubiak really feel super-confident that Steve Slaton would make it all season without an injury? That Moats and Brown would be adequate filler material IF Steve Slaton were to get hurt? You tell Benson that Steve has in NO way earned the title of "starter" and that you feel very comfortable giving him (Benson) a great number of snaps to let him show his stuff.

I'd have loved to have Benson's rushing yardage that he's had this year.

Again, that was Rick Smith's call. Time and again, predraft, when asked about drafting a RB, Rick's reply was, "we have a good second RB in this building..." Rick Smith, not Kubiak, decided how much to offer Benson when he was brought in for a looksee. Yet that's on Kubiak... You folks have very selected memory sometimes.

I sat at my mom and dad's house this past Sunday, during the 2nd half of the Dolphins game, and couldn't believe that we were allowing Miami to come back like we did. My dad's not even a Texans fan (says he watches a little bit of the games) and he sat there and told me exactly what I and others on here have been saying: How can the Texans play so well, and then blow the game in so many bizarre ways?

I looked at him and said "Our coach is messed up. He's in wayyy over his head. Builds a nice offense, but he has no gameday decision-making skills."

Here are our 2nd half drives...
Houston Texans at 10:03
1-10-HOU20 (10:03) M.Schaub pass short middle to A.Johnson to HST 34 for 14 yards (S.Smith).
1-10-HOU34 (9:26) M.Schaub pass short middle to K.Walter to HST 41 for 7 yards (V.Davis).
2-3-HOU 41 (8:43) A.Foster right tackle to MIA 45 for 14 yards (A.Ayodele).
1-10-MIA45 (8:05) R.Moats left guard to MIA 44 for 1 yard (K.Langford).
2-9-MIA44 (7:26) M.Schaub pass short right intended for J.Dreessen INTERCEPTED by Y.Bell (K.Langford) at MIA 38. (I won't put this totally on Schaub because the DT deflected the pass at the line - the other guys get paid to make plays too) Y.Bell to HST 33 for 29 yards (D.Anderson). MIA-Y.Bell was injured during the play.

Houston Texans at 05:52
1-10-HOU44 (5:52) A.Foster right end to HST 46 for 2 yards (V.Davis).
2-8-HOU46 (5:18) A.Foster right guard to MIA 47 for 7 yards (J.Taylor).
3-1-MIA47 (4:40) A.Foster right tackle to MIA 46 for 1 yard (K.Langford). 1st down measurement.
1-10-MIA46 (4:10) M.Schaub pass incomplete deep middle to A.Johnson (S.Smith).this is the one that A.J. probably could have taken to the house -he had a step on the CB- but Schaub underthrew it a bit and the DB got a hand on it.
2-10-MIA46 (4:01) M.Schaub pass short left to R.Moats to MIA 48 for -2 yards (A.Ayodele). Penalty on HST, Illegal Shift, declined.
3-12-MIA48 (3:34) (Shotgun) M.Schaub pass incomplete short right to C.Brown (V.Davis). Play was challenged by MIA, but play considered unreviewable. (this is the one that really should have been called a fumble)
4-12-MIA48(3:23) M.Turk punts 37 yards to MIA 11, Center-J.Dreessen, fair catch by D.Bess.

Houston Texans at 14:53
1-10-HOU10 (14:53) A.Foster left tackle to HST 16 for 6 yards (V.Davis).
2-4-HOU16 (14:16) A.Foster right guard to HST 22 for 6 yards (V.Davis).
1-10-HOU22 (13:35) A.Foster left tackle to HST 25 for 3 yards (P.Merling, J.Porter).
2-7-HOU25(12:53) M.Schaub pass short right to K.Walter to HST 31 for 6 yards (V.Davis).
3-1-HOU31(12:17) M.Schaub pass incomplete short left to D.Anderson. (this one I might put on Shanny/Kubiak - we only needed 1 yard to move the chains and the run had been working - probably should have gone back to the run. Shanny/Kubiak might have gotten too cute; especially with Schaub not as sharp as he was in the 1st half.)
4-1-HOU31 (12:12) M.Turk punts 51 yards to MIA 18, Center-J.Dreessen. D.Bess to MIA 26 for 8 yards (N.Ferguson).

Houston Texans at 09:19
1-10-HOU22 (9:19) M.Schaub pass short right to J.Dreessen to HST 26 for 4 yards (A.Ayodele, R.Starks).
2-6-HOU26 (8:40) R.Moats left tackle to HST 27 for 1 yard (P.Soliai).
3-5-HOU27 (7:59) (Shotgun) M.Schaub pass short middle to D.Anderson to HST 37 for 10 yards (N.Jones).
1-10-HOU37 (7:20) A.Foster right tackle to HST 41 for 4 yards (J.Taylor).
2-6-HOU41 (6:38) M.Schaub pass incomplete short middle to J.Jones.
3-6-HOU41 (6:33) (Shotgun) M.Schaub pass incomplete short right to A.Johnson [R.Starks].
4-6-HOU41 (6:27) M.Turk punts 43 yards to MIA 16, Center-J.Dreessen, fair catch by D.Bess.


I think you get my point here. The things that had been working in the first half, because Schaub was so sharp, stopped working - as well (we picked up at least on 1st down every possession but one) - in the second half because Schaub was off. But we were doing the same mix of run/pass that had worked in the first half. Schaub was off his game just a bit and Miami woke up offensively.

I don't know how Kubiak "shut it down" like you say. Looked to me like Miami woke up. The other guys get paid too.

mussop
12-29-2009, 02:35 AM
Yeah because going from 24th D to 14th and 28th O to 5th is no improvement. Spare me the record rebuttal I full well know the record but acting like the team isn't better is asinine.

The question is has Kubiak gotten better as a coach? And what has HE done (not the team) on any game day that makes anyone think he is capable of being the guy to eventually get us a Superbowl ring?

GP
12-29-2009, 02:36 AM
I'm calling B.S. on Rick Smith being the culprit for not getting Cedric.

If the coach wants a guy bad enough, he can make a case for the player and demand that they get him.

Kubiak is weak. He goes after Benson in a weak-minded fashion, too. You absolutely go after a guy such as Benson who needed a fresh start and had been keeping his ducks in a row after having had a fairly rough start of his career.

Nobody can defend the head coach, adequately, when it comes to his decisions to NOT get Benson and to NOT play JJ more than he has.

In addition, Kubiak is responsible for the bad roster decision of not only (a) signing Chris Brown, in the first place, but also (b) failing to learn that Chris Brown is n-e-v-e-r going to become the player Kubiak tries to will him to be.

Not only does Kubiak make a weak pursuit of Benson, but he also RETAINS Chris Brown and tries to will him to succeed. Just like he tried to will Wali Lundy to success.

I dare say that Arian Foster and Moats are much better suited to carry the ball than Chris Brown. Yet Brown is still getting plugged into the games. Why is that? You've got a young guy (Foster) and Moats. Is there really any freaking reason for Gary "The Mentalist" Kubiak to play Chris Brown unless Foster or Moats get injured during the game?

Kubiak scares the buh-jeebuh's out of me.

The Panthers went into frigid New York and pounded the Giants 41-9. That's how you step on your opponent's throat and finish the job.

The Green Bay Packers played the same Seahawks team we did, and they ended up gutting the 'Hawks to the tune of 48-10.

Us? LOL. Well, no team is ever out of the game if they play us and get into a hole. Man, there is no way that Gary Kubiak is going to evolve into the sort of coach who can put the pedal to floor and just destroy his opponent.

He likes to advance his troops and then set up an intricate trench system for a defensive maneuver. And the opposing soldiers just flank the lines and overrun us every time. This team plays ONE half of good football and turtles up in the other half (pick which half, it really doesn't matter which half you pick). Is that the players' fault? Am I to believe that 22 men can somehow manage to blow one half of football each game?

We barely beat the Dolphins after having them down BIG at halftime.

mussop
12-29-2009, 02:36 AM
Cowher was handed a team full of pro bowlers and a couple of Hall of Famers. His Steelers were in the division with the (at the time) sucky Oilers, the on-and-off Bengals, and the Browns and it STILL took him 14 years to produce that bright, shiny ring. And if the refs hadn't helped them against the Seahawks, he wouldn't have that. The very next year, they went 8-8.

Following that, instead of trying to get to the mountain top, with the team he built, one more time, he quit.

Sorry, not impressed.

You are not impressed with Cowher HC resume but you are with Kubiaks? Thats all I need to know.

mussop
12-29-2009, 02:43 AM
I'm with you there. I let what looked like a weak schedule seduce me into thinking 10-6 was doable. But I knew we would need to be relatively injury-free in key positions and have a bit of luck. We weren't injury-free and didn't catch enough luck - like the Jets did yesterday.
So here we are.

Thats it keep WISHING for an injury free season and luck. We are going to need both for a Kubiak coached team to ever have a chance to accomplish anything more than an above average season. We might even make it to the playoffs but Kubiak will get outcoached in the end like he has against ever good well coached team he has ever faced.

ObsiWan
12-29-2009, 02:51 AM
You are not impressed with Cowher HC resume but you are with Kubiaks? Thats all I need to know.

Cowher has the better resume' because he was given 14 years to compile it and better players to start with.

Cowher had, at worse, to replace a part here and a part there, not build a team from a 2-14 steaming trash heap. Show me where Cowher's done that.

let me clarify something. I actually like the brand of football the Steelers played under Cowher. Crushing defense and strong running attack. But he didn't invent that brand of Steeler, Chuck Knoll did. The Steelers had that identity when Cowher got there. The Rooneys hired him because they thought he'd keep it going - which he did.

What would Cowher have done with the steaming trash heap Kubiak inherited? We'll never know. He's never had to build a team from dregs.

mussop
12-29-2009, 02:52 AM
Out of all the pro-Kubiak arguments, I find this one to be the most solid. It has been the closest season yet in our short history, so it's just a matter of believing that Kubiak can learn from his mistakes to be a better head coach and that the team has collectively learned from the close wins/losses to be in better position for next year (or even this year if the wind gets in our sails).



yep, any day of the week.



I tend to think in the perspective of the Bill Parcells quote ("you are what your record says you are"), but I can see your point of view in analysis. Coulda/shoulda/woulda and all that jazz, but we have been very competitive with the exception of the first game.

It really comes down to the question of Kubiak and if he can get this group of players (with some off-season upgrades) to get over that hump.

Apparently there is a lot of different opinions of what getting over the HUMP is. For me over the HUMP means, a team that plays solid football for 60 minutes and not only can make the playoffs but be a team that doesnt need luck to win in the playoffs. Not a team that is just satisfied with getting to the playoffs. I cant see a Kubiak coached team getting over the hump when we will be going against teams with good HC's and equal or better talent.

GP
12-29-2009, 02:55 AM
Cowher has the better resume' because he was given 14 years to compile it and better players to start with.

Cowher had, at worse, to replace a part here and a part there, not build a team from the ashes of a 2-14 trash heap. Show me where he's done that.

Let's remove records from each coach.

Let's remove players from the equation, as well.

Let's just strip this down to the bare essentials: Cowher vs. Kubiak.

Which guy, in your estimation, is the better GAMEDAY coach and GAMEDAY tactician who can lead his team to overcome obstacles and put them in position to win?

With four years of Kubiak under our belt, I can in no shape or fashion sit here and say that I see how Gary Kubiak is as good of a coach as Bill Cowher.

When I take it down to its base elements, looking at the person's coaching DNA and what they have put out there on the field, I do NOT come away thinking that Kubiak is going to evolve into what Cowher had.

In fact, it's not even fair to Cowher to put him in the position of being held up beside Kubiak for such an evaluation, IMO.

mussop
12-29-2009, 03:03 AM
Because the schedule is so tough next season, Gary Kubiak is the right man for the job? Despite his horrific record of 4-10 versus winning teams over the past 2 seasons? I don't follow that logic.

The Texans will lkely play 7 games versus 2009 playoff teams next year. All but 3 of their games will feature opponents with .500 records or better. I understand some are afraid of change. But, your asking Gary Kubiak to completely reverse his trend against good teams. Without change, there will be no change. A running back and center won't turn this team into a division winner. The understanding of how to win combined with the will to see it through is what will be required. Do you really believe Gary Kubiak possesses those traits? He hasn't shown them in 4 seasons.

People are ignoring the Gary Kubiak as HC factor and keep pointing to offensive and defensive stats as the be all end all of the conversation. Of course this team could of won alot of the games we lost if we had gotten lucky or we had a few breaks go our way but every team can say that. In a leauge where the talent from team to team is so close having a coach that is caplable of handling tough situations and making the right choices and calls is the difference between competing in the playoffs and hoping to get lucky and make the playoffs.

For some reason beyond me people want to believe Kubiak is capable of doing this.

mussop
12-29-2009, 03:10 AM
That implies he had this team for four seasons. I get the change argument. We have seen other teams make coaching changes that paid immediate dividends, such as Atlanta and Miami, but in Miami's case at least that change came through a wildcat scheme that was only effective until everyone figured it out. Now we see how effective it was in the long hall. It reminds me of Jack Pardees run and shoot. Kubiak inhearited a TURD! He hinished the first two season ahead of my expectations, played right up to expectations last year and this year has only fallen a little short.

If we do fire Kubiak this year, big name coaches will be licking their chops to take what Kubiak is building to the next level. That wasn't the case four years ago. I don't think we will regress ala the Browns, Lions or Raiders with another coaching change, but the more time this coach has to build his team the better we can expect them to be. I say one more year.

This is exactly why we need to be letting go of an average at best coach and going after a qaulified one. This is the year to go and get a top notch coach who hs been there and knows what it takes and has what it takes as a coach to get over the hump and become a REGULAR PLAYOFF CONTENDAR. If we keep Kubiak all we'll ever be is a REGULAR PLAYOFF PRETENDAR unless the light all the sudden goes off and he figures things out.

I havent seen a single clue in his 4 years now that suggest that is going to happen anytime soon.

mussop
12-29-2009, 03:11 AM
Horse hockey!

If we didn't have a head coach who goes into a turtle shell when we have a lead, as well as getting "cute" with the playcalling in the Red Zone and during critical situations, then we are in the playoffs.

Kubiak plays Jacoby all season long, and we probably get at least one or two more wins because of the way JJ has played this year as a WR. How he has not been a bigger player in this offense is beyond my limited football mind, I suppose.

The Miami game was PROOF POSITIVE that this team is led by a coach who affects his players' mentality. It wasn't the players who went into a shell in the 2nd half. You could see it in Kubiak's body language: He was content with trying to let the clock wear down. It was a "prevent" mentality the whole way in the 2nd half.

It wasn't a player's fault that we kept Chris Brown out there and coughed up the ball...once again...in a game-sealing situation. Chris Brown has cost us games--He shouldn't even be on this roster AT ALL!!! That's a coaching problem.

Not getting Cedric Benson was a Kubiak problem. Did Kubiak really feel super-confident that Steve Slaton would make it all season without an injury? That Moats and Brown would be adequate filler material IF Steve Slaton were to get hurt? You tell Benson that Steve has in NO way earned the title of "starter" and that you feel very comfortable giving him (Benson) a great number of snaps to let him show his stuff.

I'd have loved to have Benson's rushing yardage that he's had this year.

This team's leader (Kubiak) is a real prize.

Great builder of offenses, don't get me wrong, but the gameday decisions and roster decisions are screwy.

When are we going to have unanimous agreement that Gary Kubiak can't coach a complete game?!?! He can't!

I sat at my mom and dad's house this past Sunday, during the 2nd half of the Dolphins game, and couldn't believe that we were allowing Miami to come back like we did. My dad's not even a Texans fan (says he watches a little bit of the games) and he sat there and told me exactly what I and others on here have been saying: How can the Texans play so well, and then blow the game in so many bizarre ways?

I looked at him and said "Our coach is messed up. He's in wayyy over his head. Builds a nice offense, but he has no gameday decision-making skills."

EXACTLY!!! :goodpost: :handshake: And rep for you.

mussop
12-29-2009, 03:19 AM
We were 5-3 and #2 in the division when O.D. went down.
How is that "struggling"?

You Soapers need to stop lying

No the settlers need to stop using dumb *******ing excuses.

Its just STUPID!!!!! Cmon one guy is the reason we lost 4 games in a row? If you really beleive that then I feel sorry for you.

Here is a question for you, If Kubiak is such a good coach shouldnt he be able to adjust to loosing one player?

Seriously as far as coaching goes, not what the team has ALMOST been able to accomplish this year but, how Kubiak has handled in-game coaching, you dont think we could do better? In that regard do you believe Kubiak is more than average at being a HC? :lol:

mussop
12-29-2009, 03:24 AM
Cowher has the better resume' because he was given 14 years to compile it and better players to start with.

Cowher had, at worse, to replace a part here and a part there, not build a team from a 2-14 steaming trash heap. Show me where Cowher's done that.

let me clarify something. I actually like the brand of football the Steelers played under Cowher. Crushing defense and strong running attack. But he didn't invent that brand of Steeler, Chuck Knoll did. The Steelers had that identity when Cowher got there. The Rooneys hired him because they thought he'd keep it going - which he did.

What would Cowher have done with the steaming trash heap Kubiak inherited? We'll never know. He's never had to build a team from dregs.

And he wouldnt have to here either. The talent is already here. We jsut need someone that knows how to use it.

mussop
12-29-2009, 03:29 AM
Let's remove records from each coach.

Let's remove players from the equation, as well.

Let's just strip this down to the bare essentials: Cowher vs. Kubiak.

Which guy, in your estimation, is the better GAMEDAY coach and GAMEDAY tactician who can lead his team to overcome obstacles and put them in position to win?

With four years of Kubiak under our belt, I can in no shape or fashion sit here and say that I see how Gary Kubiak is as good of a coach as Bill Cowher.

When I take it down to its base elements, looking at the person's coaching DNA and what they have put out there on the field, I do NOT come away thinking that Kubiak is going to evolve into what Cowher had.

In fact, it's not even fair to Cowher to put him in the position of being held up beside Kubiak for such an evaluation, IMO.

Get ready for the obligitory "Cowher wont come here response".

And another great post by the way. Wish I could rep you again.

ObsiWan
12-29-2009, 03:35 AM
Let's remove records from each coach.

Let's remove players from the equation, as well.

Let's just strip this down to the bare essentials: Cowher vs. Kubiak.

Which guy, in your estimation, is the better GAMEDAY coach and GAMEDAY tactician who can lead his team to overcome obstacles and put them in position to win?

With four years of Kubiak under our belt, I can in no shape or fashion sit here and say that I see how Gary Kubiak is as good of a coach as Bill Cowher.

When I take it down to its base elements, looking at the person's coaching DNA and what they have put out there on the field, I do NOT come away thinking that Kubiak is going to evolve into what Cowher had.

In fact, it's not even fair to Cowher to put him in the position of being held up beside Kubiak for such an evaluation, IMO.

GP, make up your mind; in your first two sentences you say remove the records and the players. Then you turn around and ask who would better lead his team (the players) and in the next sentence you refer to "what they have put out on the field" (team record and the players).

I'll answer it this way - because, strangely enough, I think I know where you're going.
Kubiak would put a better offense on the field and Cowher would maybe have built a better defense - of course, he had Dick LeBeau on his staff his first 5 yrs and when he won his Super Bowl. :D

There's no denying that we've become a top 5 offense under Kubiak. But he stuck with Richard Smith too long on the defensive side. No question. The defense didn't develop as fast as the Kubiak's offense. If it had, we would have made the playoffs by now.

Cowher, with LeBeau's help, kept the Steeler identity of strong, solid defense going strong the whole time he was there. No question. But he couldn't build a consistent offense to save his soul. Didn't know what to do with Cordell Stewart. Stayed with Neil O'Donnell too long. Few of his WRs worked out in the early years; even after having Swann and Stallworth to use as a blueprint.

Is that fair enough?

bckey
12-29-2009, 06:13 AM
It looks like the main Texans bb is already trying to sell Kubiak to us for next year. A big picture of Kubiak smiling as if he has accomplished something on the main page. It is titled "Riding High"

http://www.houstontexans.com/index2.html

TheCD
12-29-2009, 09:30 AM
Staying out of the argument as to whether Kubiak should stay or go, I just want to point out one thing:


For those saying that injuries don't matter, and great teams overcome them...you're neglecting the fact that this team has depth at only 3/4 positions (if that) - WR, LB and maybe DE or RB.

We have no depth at QB (obviously after Jax), perhaps maybe servicable depth at RB if you get rid of Chris Brown, no o-line depth, no DT depth (much less starting DT's), no CB depth (Bennet's a turd this year, Reeves isn't making much in the way of plays, but probably would be a better option that Dunta, and Glover and Brice are showing promise), and absolutely no depth at either S position. Bernard's our answer if we want to run with a true SS, but Eugene needs to be upgraded if we want a real FS.

DeMarCushPoll
12-29-2009, 10:01 AM
Staying out of the argument as to whether Kubiak should stay or go, I just want to point out one thing:


For those saying that injuries don't matter, and great teams overcome them...you're neglecting the fact that this team has depth at only 3/4 positions (if that) - WR, LB and maybe DE or RB.

We have no depth at QB (obviously after Jax), perhaps maybe servicable depth at RB if you get rid of Chris Brown, no o-line depth, no DT depth (much less starting DT's), no CB depth (Bennet's a turd this year, Reeves isn't making much in the way of plays, but probably would be a better option that Dunta, and Glover and Brice are showing promise), and absolutely no depth at either S position. Bernard's our answer if we want to run with a true SS, but Eugene needs to be upgraded if we want a real FS.

These are exactly the points that all the "fire Kubiak" clubers refuse to acknowledge. Well said.

mussop
12-29-2009, 10:52 AM
These are exactly the points that all the "fire Kubiak" clubers refuse to acknowledge. Well said.

Staying out of the argument as to whether Kubiak should stay or go, I just want to point out one thing:


For those saying that injuries don't matter, and great teams overcome them...you're neglecting the fact that this team has depth at only 3/4 positions (if that) - WR, LB and maybe DE or RB.

We have no depth at QB (obviously after Jax), perhaps maybe servicable depth at RB if you get rid of Chris Brown, no o-line depth, no DT depth (much less starting DT's), no CB depth (Bennet's a turd this year, Reeves isn't making much in the way of plays, but probably would be a better option that Dunta, and Glover and Brice are showing promise), and absolutely no depth at either S position. Bernard's our answer if we want to run with a true SS, but Eugene needs to be upgraded if we want a real FS.

If you pro Kubiakers are going to give Kubiak credit for building this team then dont you think he should get the blame for not addressing the depth also.

First RB. The highest pick he used on a RB is the 3rd round at that was admitedly by him for a third down back. No one outside of this coaching staff thought we had any depth at RB going into this season so thats on them. We have had many opportunities to brng in upgrades at this position and passed.

Next QB, are you serious?

Next OL. No depth here, really? Our offensve stats that your clan loves to use, shows that we are doing pretty good after loosing 2 starters, The depth must be better here than you think. Our starters arent great but our depth is on par with the rest of the NFL's depth at OL.

Now DL. Another missconception. Our DL rotation isnt as bad as people here believe. Sure we dont have a dominating T but how many teams do? All the DT's outside of Okam are decent rotation guys. They arent great but as far as depth goes they arent as bad as people beleive they are.

CB, lets see Robinson, Quin, and Reeves (one of Kubiaks big FA aqusitions) give us 3 guys capable of starting with Brice who is a capable nickle. I know they could be better but as far as depth goes that is pretty much what every team begins the year with.

And now Safety. No argument here. This regime has ignored this position since day one. We were lucky to stumble accross Pollard. I honestly dont know if this staff would know a good S it he bit them on the ass. I dont know how anyone that is a Texans fan can use the Safety position as an excuse for this staff.

This team has plenty of talent. Could it be better in certain areas? Absolutely but depth is not a good excuse for this debate.

There its been addressed now go away and dont come back until you have something real to offer to this conversation.

mussop
12-29-2009, 11:01 AM
GP, make up your mind; in your first two sentences you say remove the records and the players. Then you turn around and ask who would better lead his team (the players) and in the next sentence you refer to "what they have put out on the field" (team record and the players).

I'll answer it this way - because, strangely enough, I think I know where you're going.
Kubiak would put a better offense on the field and Cowher would maybe have built a better defense - of course, he had Dick LeBeau on his staff his first 5 yrs and when he won his Super Bowl. :D

There's no denying that we've become a top 5 offense under Kubiak. But he stuck with Richard Smith too long on the defensive side. No question. The defense didn't develop as fast as the Kubiak's offense. If it had, we would have made the playoffs by now.

Cowher, with LeBeau's help, kept the Steeler identity of strong, solid defense going strong the whole time he was there. No question. But he couldn't build a consistent offense to save his soul. Didn't know what to do with Cordell Stewart. Stayed with Neil O'Donnell too long. Few of his WRs worked out in the early years; even after having Swann and Stallworth to use as a blueprint.

Is that fair enough?

Nice word play. Now why dont you really answer the question. Its starting to like you are just argueing to argue.

Let's just strip this down to the bare essentials: Cowher vs. Kubiak.

Which guy, in your estimation, is the better GAMEDAY coach and GAMEDAY tactician who can lead his team to overcome obstacles and put them in position to win?

If you are not going to answer the question honestly then why even bother? Its a simple question, who is the better coach at making gameday decisions, Kubiak or Cowher?

And before any morons jump in and inject a "we are not getting Cowher" post, do yourselves a favor and read up on this debate from the beginning.

Mr. White
12-29-2009, 11:14 AM
It looks like the main Texans bb is already trying to sell Kubiak to us for next year. A big picture of Kubiak smiling as if he has accomplished something on the main page. It is titled "Riding High"

http://www.houstontexans.com/index2.html

Who is this guy that's smiling?

http://assets.houstontexans.com/assets/top_stories/4675.jpg

Double Barrel
12-29-2009, 11:22 AM
Apparently there is a lot of different opinions of what getting over the HUMP is. For me over the HUMP means, a team that plays solid football for 60 minutes and not only can make the playoffs but be a team that doesnt need luck to win in the playoffs. Not a team that is just satisfied with getting to the playoffs. I cant see a Kubiak coached team getting over the hump when we will be going against teams with good HC's and equal or better talent.

I'd be happy right now just making the playoffs. Let's try that for a couple of years before we knock it, o.k.? I think Super Bowl talk is a bit premature and goofy for a franchise that has yet to experience a winning record.

If we win and go 9-7, do you still want to fire Kubiak? Do you want to fire a coach after a winning season, much less our first winning season in franchise history? That kind of move reeks of Bud Adams. I want no part of that chump's decision making process.

BTW, before you try to go off on me, I'm not a pro-Kubiak fan. A couple of weeks ago - after a four game losing streak - I wanted him gone. But I cannot support a desire to fire a coach after a winning season, no matter how solid the case against him can be made. That's just how I roll.

mussop
12-29-2009, 11:22 AM
Who is this guy that's smiling?

http://assets.houstontexans.com/assets/top_stories/4675.jpg

Whats sad is that the guy really is likeable. I really want him to succeed here. He just doesnt have the ability of a good HC at this point. I know he is coming back next year I have already excepted that. And I will be as happy for him as anyone if he does figure it out. I just hate to see another year of this talent wasted hoping he can figure it out.

TheCD
12-29-2009, 11:24 AM
First of all, as I said before I'm not making an argument to either keep or fire Kubiak, so if that was directed at me, you're off-base in that regard.



If you pro Kubiakers are going to give Kubiak credit for building this team then dont you think he should get the blame for not addressing the depth also.

Do you remember how bad this team was? It's impossible to build a team from the ground up with great starters AND depth in 5 years.. At the very least, Kubiak has put good starters in place, the depth comes afterwards, and I think we're almost to the point where we can start looking at drafting for depth predominately in the next year or two (regardless of the coach that is in place)

First RB. The highest pick he used on a RB is the 3rd round at that was admitedly by him for a third down back. No one outside of this coaching staff thought we had any depth at RB going into this season so thats on them. We have had many opportunities to brng in upgrades at this position and passed.

Slaton is a good back (assuming he doesn't pull a DD/W on us), and the two guys we're rolling with now are servicable. Sometimes situations do occur where great backs (or any positions) are available in the draft but to draft them would require you to blow up your scheme or place them in a position to fail. Is that the best course of action for Kubiak to take? Maybe, maybe not. But there might be a back he sees high in this draft that he will pounce on given the chance. Maybe that wasn't the case in years past.

Next QB, are you serious?

We've got an excellent starter...but if you're even going to try to say Rex is a good backup after how he played in relief of Matt...I think you may have forgotten just how bad he was.

Next OL. No depth here, really? Our offensve stats that your clan loves to use, shows that we are doing pretty good after loosing 2 starters, The depth must be better here than you think. Our starters arent great but our depth is on par with the rest of the NFL's depth at OL.

Now DL. Another missconception. Our DL rotation isnt as bad as people here believe. Sure we dont have a dominating T but how many teams do? All the DT's outside of Okam are decent rotation guys. They arent great but as far as depth goes they arent as bad as people beleive they are.

To say we have good centers and a good right guard is to ignore the production (the lack thereof, that is) this year.

Perhaps I mis-spoke in this regard. It does seem we have good depth in most of these positions, but no real starters. Duane and Eric get the job done, and Chester isn't bad by any means...but other that than what is there? Chester might be better off as a backup than as a starter if the right guy can be found.


CB, lets see Robinson, Quin, and Reeves (one of Kubiaks big FA aqusitions) give us 3 guys capable of starting with Brice who is a capable nickle. I know they could be better but as far as depth goes that is pretty much what every team begins the year with.

We're better at CB than in years past, but I really can't say with any confidence that Dunta is worthy of anything more than a nickel position. Maybe if the opposing WR is a possession receiver Dunta can cover him, but I nearly have a heart attack any time the offense throws a deep ball for fear that Dunta is covering the receiver.


This team has plenty of talent. Could it be better in certain areas? Absolutely but depth is not a good excuse for this debate.

You're perfectly right here. This team has plenty of talent. But it seems as though our talent is geared towards the bulk of the skill positions and neglects the nitty-gritty. We're all fond of most of our players, but outside of Andre, Mario, Matt, Steve, the LB's and Bernard...is the talent we have REALLY that good? I used to think so, but as the season has worn on I have been more inclined to say it isn't.


I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong...I'm not trying to argue, I'm just trying to debate with you. You say there's plenty of talent on this team...I think there's a lot less that people think there is. Is that Kubiak's fault? Sure. Is it Kubiak's fault for having the talent that we do? Of course.

Does that mean he's the right guy for the job? Maybe...maybe not.

mussop
12-29-2009, 11:38 AM
I'd be happy right now just making the playoffs. Let's try that for a couple of years before we knock it, o.k.? I think Super Bowl talk is a bit premature and goofy for a franchise that has yet to experience a winning record.

If we win and go 9-7, do you still want to fire Kubiak? Do you want to fire a coach after a winning season, much less our first winning season in franchise history? That kind of move reeks of Bud Adams. I want no part of that chump's decision making process.

BTW, before you try to go off on me, I'm not a pro-Kubiak fan. A couple of weeks ago - after a four game losing streak - I wanted him gone. But I cannot support a desire to fire a coach after a winning season, no matter how solid the case against him can be made. That's just how I roll.

I know where you stand on this. I understand everything you are saying. And yes I want Kubiak gone even if we win this next game and go 9 and 7. I see a great core of players on this team that a better HC could build around and excell with. By excell I mean make this team a consistent playoff/ Superbowl contendar. I dont think that Kubiak has shown the coaching ability to take this team to that level.

I also dissagree that we should be content just making the playoffs for the next couple of years. If you have the right core of players and again I believe we do, then your only goal should be the Superbowl.

Let me get something straightbefore I get jumped on, I dont think we have the talent to win the Superbowl right now. I think we have a really good CORE of young talented players and think with the right additions and the right HC could be one of the teams that could be a legitamate contendar for years to come.

GP
12-29-2009, 11:55 AM
Another year is gone.

And yet another year will go by in 2010, and somehow people have convinced themselves that staying with 15 in this game of blackjack (i.e. "playing it TOO safe") is the best option.

McNair's philosophy has permeated the coaches and the players, and now it's soaking into the psyche of fans, I suppose.

I am astonished that so many fans on here have convinced themselves that this team is going to accomplish something bigger than a 3 or 4-game winning streak with Gary Kubiak as the gameday head coach.

It's as if people have become accustomed to the "next year" mantra.

The man cannot beat his divisional opponents. He can't watch critical plays. He can't let go of the playcalling duties. He turtles up when he gets a lead, and exhibits hardly what you'd call a "strategy" against each opponent to exploit their weaknesses to the fullest potential. He doesn't play the best players, and he sticks with poor players and poor coordinators too long.

This season was like a zombie season for me. I'm in a trance. I ask myself, "Is THIS all we get? THIS is what we waited for all off-season?" The only positive thing, for me, is that Frank Bush has improved this defense and Brian Cushing has helped stabilize the run defense.

The offense, admittedly, is missing Owen Daniels. But this doesn't excuse the other shortcomings such as the Kubiak-called halfback pass when you have Andre Johnson as your star WR, and...IIRC...that was done on 1st down.

To me, that single halfback pass play defines the Kubiak era: Getting away from what your team does best, as well as screwy roster decisions and stubborn decision-making during the games.

Built a great offense, but not capable of winning games that count.

Ryan
12-29-2009, 12:06 PM
I'm now starting to think that changing head coaches wouldn't be the best option for us at this moment in time. I'm not saying a new coach would take 3 to 4 years to get this team into a consistent playoff team, but it could do alot to mess with the psyche of the team if we did it already, although the team's psyche is still questionable at the moment anyway.

Thorn
12-29-2009, 12:12 PM
I'm now starting to think that changing head coaches wouldn't be the best option for us at this moment in time. I'm not saying a new coach would take 3 to 4 years to get this team into a consistent playoff team, but it could do alot to mess with the psyche of the team if we did it already, although the team's psyche is still questionable at the moment anyway.

Kubiak is back next year whether we like it or not. So, I'm going to get with the program and cheer him and his coaching staff and our team on.

So everyone cheer for the 2010 Texans, because the final "Next Year" is coming to Houston Texan fans everywhere! LOL

Mr. White
12-29-2009, 12:12 PM
I haven't been banging the drum much lately because this is a dead issue now IMO.

Pretty simple to sum up my position....

Keep him if we make the playoffs.
Fire him if we don't.

mussop
12-29-2009, 12:14 PM
First of all, as I said before I'm not making an argument to either keep or fire Kubiak, so if that was directed at me, you're off-base in that regard.

First of all I was responding to DeMarCushPall who used your post as part of his debate. I was not responding directly at you which is why I removed your name from my post. But if you would like I will gladly debate you on the subject. I dont have anything else to do for the next hour or so. :)


Do you remember how bad this team was? It's impossible to build a team from the ground up with great starters AND depth in 5 years.. At the very least, Kubiak has put good starters in place, the depth comes afterwards, and I think we're almost to the point where we can start looking at drafting for depth predominately in the next year or two (regardless of the coach that is in place)

I somewhat agree.

Slaton is a good back (assuming he doesn't pull a DD/W on us), and the two guys we're rolling with now are servicable. Sometimes situations do occur where great backs (or any positions) are available in the draft but to draft them would require you to blow up your scheme or place them in a position to fail. Is that the best course of action for Kubiak to take? Maybe, maybe not. But there might be a back he sees high in this draft that he will pounce on given the chance. Maybe that wasn't the case in years past.

There have been many situations where we could of upgraded the RB position other than high in the draft.

We've got an excellent starter...but if you're even going to try to say Rex is a good backup after how he played in relief of Matt...I think you may have forgotten just how bad he was.

How many teams have good backups? Didnt Kubiak go out and sign Dan O as a FA. Wouldnt that mean Its Kubiaks fault if the depth at QB isnt up to par.

To say we have good centers and a good right guard is to ignore the production (the lack thereof, that is) this year.

I dont believe I ever said that.

Perhaps I mis-spoke in this regard. It does seem we have good depth in most of these positions, but no real starters. Duane and Eric get the job done, and Chester isn't bad by any means...but other that than what is there? Chester might be better off as a backup than as a starter if the right guy can be found.

Ok I agree with you here.


We're better at CB than in years past, but I really can't say with any confidence that Dunta is worthy of anything more than a nickel position. Maybe if the opposing WR is a possession receiver Dunta can cover him, but I nearly have a heart attack any time the offense throws a deep ball for fear that Dunta is covering the receiver.

Dunte isnt a franchise CB for sure but he is starting on more teams than not. Our CBs look worse than they actually are because of a lack of pass rush. This doesnt really have anything to do with your previous post about depth anyway.

You're perfectly right here. This team has plenty of talent. But it seems as though our talent is geared towards the bulk of the skill positions and neglects the nitty-gritty. We're all fond of most of our players, but outside of Andre, Mario, Matt, Steve, the LB's and Bernard...is the talent we have REALLY that good? I used to think so, but as the season has worn on I have been more inclined to say it isn't.

We have as good a CORE as most teams. Its young and talented and withthe right peices put around it and the right leadership could go along way. IMO.

I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong...I'm not trying to argue, I'm just trying to debate with you. You say there's plenty of talent on this team...I think there's a lot less that people think there is. Is that Kubiak's fault? Sure. Is it Kubiak's fault for having the talent that we do? Of course.

Does that mean he's the right guy for the job? Maybe...maybe not.

IMO its maybe not. Just my opinion.

OzzO
12-29-2009, 12:25 PM
I must say - good arguements on both sides. Hopefully, the powers that be make the right decision for the team in 2010.




(.....all of this would be null if we could just take care of our divisional games, or at least show up for them.....)

Texecutioner
12-29-2009, 12:27 PM
The man cannot beat his divisional opponents. He can't watch critical plays. He can't let go of the playcalling duties. He turtles up when he gets a lead, and exhibits hardly what you'd call a "strategy" against each opponent to exploit their weaknesses to the fullest potential. He doesn't play the best players, and he sticks with poor players and poor coordinators too long.



It truly is creepy at how spot on all of this right here is ^^^^^^^

It's crazy that people think a guy with this many flaws could one day take this team to a SB or something "special." I remember last season when we started tailing off in the season and people were getting sick and tired of Kubiak's garbage and then he won those meaningless games at the end of the season and he changed a bunch of people's minds. Once I looked at the schedule after the Titans game I knew Kubes would pull out a few more at the end this season and people would jump back on the "next year Kubes train." I think you're right that it starts messing with people's pysche actually.

What's even crazier is how many times I've read this same line about the team Kubiak took over when he got here. So freaking what. That was 4 years ago. Get over it. It has nothing to do with "now." And this we're constantly improving thing is crazy to me when I'm seeing the same mistakes that I've seen in year two from Kubes when I'd see him come out with this awful game plan in a second half or something like that. That's been going on since he got here. The guy goes aggressive and then ultra conservative with the drop of a hat. It's crazy how cold this team gets all of the time. I've never seen a football team go so hot and cold in so many games like this. This season has been filled with backwards coaching all year long and yet we're still in it. I think that's even more of a sign of how good this team could really be with a real HC and a guy that knows how to win close games and make smart game day decisions. We have a ton of talent.

And you know what's going to be really bad about this is that it's been reported that Cowher is assembling a team of coaches right now so he can become a HC somewhere in 2010. He's ready to take over a team now and get it going. There is no doubt in my mind that he'd come here with what we currently have if Mcnair would pay him the money. But no, we're going to pass up on this opportunity and roll with the king of 8-8 who thinks Chris Brown is Walter Payton instead, while our fan base continues to sing songs from the "Annie" soundtrack.

DeMarCushPoll
12-29-2009, 12:31 PM
If you pro Kubiakers are going to give Kubiak credit for building this team then dont you think he should get the blame for not addressing the depth also.

*******************

I don't know if I would consider myself a pro kubiaker or not but I do feel like he has this team headed in the right direction. I'm all for what's best for the team and if that means replacing him then that's fine but at this point I just don't think he's had enough time to succeed when considering what he inherited. I can't really blame him for not addressing the depth issues when I don't feel like he's had enough time to do it. He's had three drafts and in that time the entire roster has been overhauled. That's a lot turnover in a relatively short period of time. I know we live in a time where everyone expects immediate results, but I like the way they are building this team through the draft and not bringing in a bunch of middle-aged free agents that will be over the hill in 3-5 years.