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badboy
12-18-2009, 08:38 AM
I just found following info from December 9th that running back Gerhart may have decided to enter NFL draft.

12/09/09 - Stanford running back Toby Gerhart appeared to accidentally disclose his NFL plans Tuesday, and if you’re a Stanford fan, the news wasn’t good. Here’s the chronology: During a press conference Tuesday morning to discuss the Heisman Trophy, Gerhart was asked if he had made a decision on next year. (He has the option to return to school.) His response: “Not yet. I’m soaking everything in.” Asked if winning the Heisman would affect his decision, he added: “I don’t know how much correlation there is between the Heisman and your pro potential.” But during an interview with Comcast’s Chronicle Live on Tuesday, Gerhart made a reference to training for the 40-yard dash: “I’m going to start training here shortly, get ready for the (NFL Draft) Combine.” Host Greg Papa then asked if that meant Gerhart had decided to enter the draft. Seemingly flustered — like he realized he said something he shouldn’t have — Gerhart stumbled for a second … then talked briefly about making a decision after the Sun Bowl … then added: “But it’s looking like that’s the way it’s going to go.”… And that pronouncement, unofficially official as it might have been, should come as zero surprise to anyone who has watched Gerhart play this season. His stock will never be higher — he’s projected to go in the second or third round — and his body might never be healthier. Given his physical running style and the punishment he takes every carry, entering the draft (and getting that first contract) is the smart thing to do. And when the winter quarter starts next month, he’ll only be three classes short of his degree …Papa then asked the same question Gerhart got at the morning presser: Would the Heisman voting, however it goes, affect his decision to turn pro? Gerhart, having composed himself, said: “I don’t think so. It’s going to totally depend on my evaluations by the NFL.” - John Wilner, Mercury News

link http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=65195&draftyear=2010&genpos=RB

El Tejano
12-18-2009, 08:56 AM
He'll suck.

JB
12-18-2009, 09:18 AM
He'll suck.

Can you expand on that? Why do you think he will suck? Do you think he is another Ron Dayne?

Corrosion
12-18-2009, 10:17 AM
He's a hard , downhill runner , but I think he's gonna have trouble holding onto the ball in the NFL. He's just a bit careless with the ball , many occasions I saw him holding it away from his body arms flailing around. He got away with it in college but that will be something defenses pick up on and target quickly in the NFL.

If that can be corrected he'll be a productive back .... I wouldnt want him any earlier than the 3rd. If someone else takes him earlier , fine - Lets fix the interior OL , S and CB spots.

cuppacoffee
12-18-2009, 10:48 AM
I'd love to see him in a Texan uni.

I was really impressed the few times I saw him in action.


:coffee:

beerlover
12-18-2009, 10:52 AM
He's a hard , downhill runner , but I think he's gonna have trouble holding onto the ball in the NFL. He's just a bit careless with the ball , many occasions I saw him holding it away from his body arms flailing around. He got away with it in college but that will be something defenses pick up on and target quickly in the NFL.

If that can be corrected he'll be a productive back .... I wouldnt want him any earlier than the 3rd. If someone else takes him earlier , fine - Lets fix the interior OL , S and CB spots.

I don't think he is going to have any more trouble protecting the ball than any other RB in the NFL. He is as sound as it gets carrying the football, like most great backs who refuse to go down on contact is when he can gets in uncompromising positions but I'm not changing that it's what makes him special.

Wolf6151
12-18-2009, 11:02 AM
He's a hard , downhill runner , but I think he's gonna have trouble holding onto the ball in the NFL. He's just a bit careless with the ball , many occasions I saw him holding it away from his body arms flailing around. He got away with it in college but that will be something defenses pick up on and target quickly in the NFL.

If that can be corrected he'll be a productive back .... I wouldnt want him any earlier than the 3rd. If someone else takes him earlier , fine - Lets fix the interior OL , S and CB spots.


I haven't seen any ball carrying issues with Gerhart but otherwise agree with your assessment of him. I'd take him in the 3rd round if still available but no earlier and I agree let's fix the O-line first or no RB is going anywhere. We need to fix CB and FS as well.

rmartin65
12-18-2009, 11:15 AM
This is the first I have heard of ball security issues. I watched 4 games or so, and did not see any fumbles. He protects the ball going up the middle, and switches it to the outside hand along the sidelines.

Gerhart is my favorite back in the draft, closely followed by Dwyer. They are both pounding runners, Dwyer with more speed, but I think Gerhart has the edge in agility. I have seen some surprising cutbacks from him, considering he size.

My sig is how I feel.

kastofsna
12-18-2009, 11:58 AM
He's a hard , downhill runner , but I think he's gonna have trouble holding onto the ball in the NFL. He's just a bit careless with the ball , many occasions I saw him holding it away from his body arms flailing around. He got away with it in college but that will be something defenses pick up on and target quickly in the NFL.

If that can be corrected he'll be a productive back .... I wouldnt want him any earlier than the 3rd. If someone else takes him earlier , fine - Lets fix the interior OL , S and CB spots.

this is a very correctable issue, and has nothing to do with his ability as a runningback, basically.

badboy
12-18-2009, 04:06 PM
He's a hard , downhill runner , but I think he's gonna have trouble holding onto the ball in the NFL. He's just a bit careless with the ball , many occasions I saw him holding it away from his body arms flailing around. He got away with it in college but that will be something defenses pick up on and target quickly in the NFL.
If that can be corrected he'll be a productive back .... I wouldnt want him any earlier than the 3rd. If someone else takes him earlier , fine - Lets fix the interior OL , S and CB spots.That applies to almost every Rb, WR and QB in college football. We never would have drafted Slaton. I think high school coaches and most college coaches are so happy with a guy that can gain yardage that they do not focus on ball handling. How many fumbles did Gerhart have in his career?

theanswer000
12-18-2009, 09:49 PM
He runs standing up, kind of like Chris Brown.

Stemp
12-18-2009, 10:05 PM
That applies to almost every Rb, WR and QB in college football. We never would have drafted Slaton. I think high school coaches and most college coaches are so happy with a guy that can gain yardage that they do not focus on ball handling. How many fumbles did Gerhart have in his career?

0 fumbles in 677 touches in 4 years.
http://espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=188524

That said, Slaton had 0 fumbles in his 3 years at West Virginia
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=174468

steelbtexan
12-18-2009, 10:28 PM
Gerhart needs to have great Bowl/all star games and a great combine. Or he will be drafted in the 3/4 rd. IMO

The reason for this is two fold
1. Injury issues (He's had knee surgery)
2. The dumb graduation rules, He will miss all of the OTA's due to the fact his class at Stanford doesn't graduate until after OTA's are finished. Therefore he'll be beind most of the other rookies in this class. (Remember Brandon Harrison)

Dwyer is my favorite RB in this class. Followed by Ryan Matthews (more speed) but Gerhart is in the same class as them. IMO

Hardesty is my sleeper RB in this class.

This class is a weak class overall. (No Depth) IMO

steelbtexan
12-18-2009, 10:31 PM
0 fumbles in 677 touches in 4 years.
http://espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=188524

That said, Slaton had 0 fumbles in his 3 years at West Virginia
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=174468

That is impressive considering his running style and how many hits he takes.

rmartin65
12-18-2009, 10:35 PM
Gerhart needs to have great Bowl/all star games and a great combine. Or he will be drafted in the 3/4 rd. IMO

The reason for this is two fold
1. Injury issues (He's had knee surgery)
2. The dumb graduation rules, He will miss all of the OTA's due to the fact his class at Stanford doesn't graduate until after OTA's are finished. Therefore he'll be beind most of the other rookies in this class. (Remember Brandon Harrison)

Dwyer is my favorite RB in this class. Followed by Ryan Matthews (more speed) but Gerhart is in the same class as them. IMO

Hardesty is my sleeper RB in this class.

This class is a weak class overall. (No Depth) IMO

Nope, he graduates this semester. He crammed in some hours so he could prepare for the combine. He is done with school.

rmartin65
12-18-2009, 10:36 PM
He runs standing up, kind of like Chris Brown.

Do you watch? Power backs cannot run standing up, or else they could not be great power backs. Gerhart knows how to get low to take on the hits, that is why it takes 2, 3, 4 guys to take him down.

ArlingtonTexan
12-18-2009, 10:40 PM
My guess at this point is that if Glen coffee can go before the Texans pick in the 3rd round, a player with size and dynamic production like Gerhart will go before that point. If i were to guess, i would think he between late first and mid-2nd.

theanswer000
12-18-2009, 10:40 PM
He is just like Ron Dayne. Watch videos of Ron in college and Toby they are both basically the same. It just goes to show speed kills in the NFL. Most teams have a complete runner who can run the ball in any given situation. Why would you want to take a guy out on 3rd and 1 when he is hot? Best examples of these complete backs are.

Brandon Jacobs
Steven Jackson
Brian Westbrook when he was not hurt
Adrian Peterson
and many more

I just want the Texans to get a back that can come through on any given play.

rmartin65
12-18-2009, 10:45 PM
He is just like Ron Dayne. Watch videos of Ron in college and Toby they are both basically the same. It just goes to show speed kills in the NFL. Most teams have a complete runner who can run the ball in any given situation. Why would you want to take a guy out on 3rd and 1 when he is hot? Best examples of these complete backs are.

Brandon Jacobs
Steven Jackson
Brian Westbrook when he was not hurt
Adrian Peterson
and many more

I just want the Texans to get a back that can come through on any given play.

You made my point. Brandon Jacobs ran between a 4.51 and a 4.56, well within the range Gerhart is expected to run. You dont need 4.3 speed to be a stud back. A lot of it is agility, intuition and determination.

Steven Jackson ran a 4.55, again where Gerhart is supposed to be.

ArlingtonTexan
12-18-2009, 10:49 PM
He is just like Ron Dayne. Watch videos of Ron in college and Toby they are both basically the same. It just goes to show speed kills in the NFL. Most teams have a complete runner who can run the ball in any given situation. Why would you want to take a guy out on 3rd and 1 when he is hot? Best examples of these complete backs are.

Brandon Jacobs
Steven Jackson
Brian Westbrook when he was not hurt
Adrian Peterson
and many more

I just want the Texans to get a back that can come through on any given play.


Actaully, Wisconson has a back who is almost exactly Ron Dayne by the name of John Clay. He is around 6'2 245-250 and does not run as tough as his size suggests although he is fine once he gets ahead of steam. If Clay comes out he probably is another 2nd maybe 3rd round possiblity.

bah007
12-18-2009, 11:15 PM
0 fumbles in 677 touches in 4 years.
http://espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=188524

That said, Slaton had 0 fumbles in his 3 years at West Virginia
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=174468

Those stats are wrong. ESPN hardly ever tracks fumbles for college players so I don't even know why they list it on the stats.

I don't know where you can find accurate numbers for fumbles but I know for a fact that those are wrong because Slaton had a four fumble game against Louisville his junior year.

rmartin65
12-18-2009, 11:19 PM
Those stats are wrong. ESPN hardly ever tracks fumbles for college players so I don't even know why they list it on the stats.

I don't know where you can find accurate numbers for fumbles but I know for a fact that those are wrong because Slaton had a four fumble game against Louisville his junior year.
Yep, and I think Gerhart did have a fumble against Oregon, or Oregon State, I cant remember which.

steelbtexan
12-18-2009, 11:45 PM
Nope, he graduates this semester. He crammed in some hours so he could prepare for the combine. He is done with school.

Thanks for the info. This tells me Gerhart's serious about being the best professional player he can be.

Martin who does Gerhart remind you of ?

He reminds me of a cross between Mike Alstott and a better version of Marion Barber.

You've seen Gerhart play many games, am I off base in my assesment?

I've only watched USC, Oregon and ND games.

barrett
12-19-2009, 07:09 AM
Thanks for the info. This tells me Gerhart's serious about being the best professional player he can be.

Martin who does Gerhart remind you of ?

He reminds me of a cross between Mike Alstott and a better version of Marion Barber.

You've seen Gerhart play many games, am I off base in my assesment?

I've only watched USC, Oregon and ND games.

I've often wondered if he won't end up a full back. Is he too tall?

rmartin65
12-19-2009, 08:21 AM
Thanks for the info. This tells me Gerhart's serious about being the best professional player he can be.

Martin who does Gerhart remind you of ?

He reminds me of a cross between Mike Alstott and a better version of Marion Barber.

You've seen Gerhart play many games, am I off base in my assesment?

I've only watched USC, Oregon and ND games.

The Barber comparison is really great. Everyone goes for Alstott because they are both white, but really he looks like a slightly tweaked Marion Barber. They both run hard, have good agility, and are damn near unstoppable near the goal line.

barrett: I dont think Toby ends up a fullback. He is 6'1", so he is not too tall, but I just think he has the tools needed to be a successful runningback. Maybe a switch to FB later in his career, or if he gets an injury that causes him to lose some speed.

Honoring Earl 34
12-19-2009, 09:59 AM
The Barber comparison is really great. Everyone goes for Alstott because they are both white, but really he looks like a slightly tweaked Marion Barber. They both run hard, have good agility, and are damn near unstoppable near the goal line.

barrett: I dont think Toby ends up a fullback. He is 6'1", so he is not too tall, but I just think he has the tools needed to be a successful runningback. Maybe a switch to FB later in his career, or if he gets an injury that causes him to lose some speed.

He reminds me of Craig James because of their whiteness .

How about a cross between Eddie George and Barber .

beerlover
12-19-2009, 04:14 PM
I've never seen a RB just like him. He does square his shoulders muck like Alstott/Riggins, low center of gravity w/both arms protecting the ball, very balanced weight transfer moving forward @ contact, then he becomes more dynamic adding an extra dimension. Has between tackle instict like Emmitt Smith combining power balance & spin moves via footwork/plants to drive & change direction, similar arm tackle defying spin moves then excellent vision to find crease while maintaining momentum, body lean & balance. Always looking for additional yards, knows where he needs to go for 1st down & nose in RZ for scoring points. Willing pass blocker, excellent route runner/hands in receiving game with bonus yards after catch.

so my comparision would be a combination of John Riggins/Emmitt Smith :)

Mari-OWNED!
12-19-2009, 04:20 PM
0 fumbles in 677 touches in 4 years.
http://espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=188524

That said, Slaton had 0 fumbles in his 3 years at West Virginia
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=174468

Stemp I'll tell you right now I know that is wrong. I've seen Gerhart fumble in college this year more than once.

rmartin65
12-19-2009, 04:39 PM
I've never seen a RB just like him. He does square his shoulders muck like Alstott/Riggins, low center of gravity w/both arms protecting the ball, very balanced weight transfer moving forward @ contact, then he becomes more dynamic adding an extra dimension. Has between tackle instict like Emmitt Smith combining power balance & spin moves via footwork/plants to drive & change direction, similar arm tackle defying spin moves then excellent vision to find crease while maintaining momentum, body lean & balance. Always looking for additional yards, knows where he needs to go for 1st down & nose in RZ for scoring points. Willing pass blocker, excellent route runner/hands in receiving game with bonus yards after catch.

so my comparision would be a combination of John Riggins/Emmitt Smith :)

I take it you are a fan?

thunderkyss
12-19-2009, 05:31 PM
I've got nothing against Gerhardt. He looks like a stud to me. But if we are specualating that he'll go low second, high third, he's not the guy we need.

We need a factor back. 1st rounder expected to contribute early.



If there won't be one available when we pick, we need to make what ever deal needs to happen, happen. Or we need to make a big time free agent signing, or a big time trade.

ObsiWan
12-19-2009, 05:53 PM
I've got nothing against Gerhardt. He looks like a stud to me. But if we are specualating that he'll go low second, high third, he's not the guy we need.

We need a factor back. 1st rounder expected to contribute early.



If there won't be one available when we pick, we need to make what ever deal needs to happen, happen. Or we need to make a big time free agent signing, or a big time trade.

More road-grader studs in the middle of our O-line is what we need the most. That or a speedy FS.

beerlover
12-19-2009, 06:22 PM
I take it you are a fan?

unequivocally

rmartin65
12-19-2009, 09:35 PM
I've got nothing against Gerhardt. He looks like a stud to me. But if we are specualating that he'll go low second, high third, he's not the guy we need.

We need a factor back. 1st rounder expected to contribute early.



If there won't be one available when we pick, we need to make what ever deal needs to happen, happen. Or we need to make a big time free agent signing, or a big time trade.

I have him pegged as a late first early second kind of guy. A lot depends on the 40 time, justly or not.

beerlover
12-20-2009, 01:37 AM
I have him pegged as a late first early second kind of guy. A lot depends on the 40 time, justly or not.

you know 40 times are over-rated?

red zone conversion ability is not.

Toby Gerhart won Doak Walker Award (nation’s best running back). Ironic isn't it that the Heisman went to a RB not named Toby?

mussop
12-20-2009, 03:32 AM
you know 40 times are over-rated?

red zone conversion ability is not.

Toby Gerhart won Doak Walker Award (nation’s best running back). Ironic isn't it that the Heisman went to a RB not named Toby?

40 times are over-rated and life isnt fair but thats the way it is like it or not. The only way a RB gets picked in the first round with a slow 40 time is if he has a really good 3-Cone time at the NFL Scouting Combine. I could be wrong but I just dont see Gerhart having the kind of agility needed to accomplish that.

mussop
12-20-2009, 04:14 AM
I've never seen a RB just like him. He does square his shoulders muck like Alstott/Riggins, low center of gravity w/both arms protecting the ball, very balanced weight transfer moving forward @ contact, then he becomes more dynamic adding an extra dimension. Has between tackle instict like Emmitt Smith combining power balance & spin moves via footwork/plants to drive & change direction, similar arm tackle defying spin moves then excellent vision to find crease while maintaining momentum, body lean & balance. Always looking for additional yards, knows where he needs to go for 1st down & nose in RZ for scoring points. Willing pass blocker, excellent route runner/hands in receiving game with bonus yards after catch.

so my comparision would be a combination of John Riggins/Emmitt Smith :)

:barman: I hope your drunk because if you are making that kind of statement sober then your out of your mind. I want a great white RB as much as the next black guy wants a great black QB but Toby aint the one. Watch some of his games and tell me he didnt have GREAT blocking in front of him. In all his highlight videos he is 2 or 3 yards down the feild before he ever makes contact with a defender. In fact the mor I see of him the more I wonder how good he really is. At the moment I cant give him better than a 3rd round grade. Of course I reserve the right to change that opinion after the combine. :)

rmartin65
12-20-2009, 08:33 AM
you know 40 times are over-rated?

red zone conversion ability is not.

Toby Gerhart won Doak Walker Award (nation’s best running back). Ironic isn't it that the Heisman went to a RB not named Toby?

Yep, I know that. That is why I said justly or not. 40 times are sexy. If a player runs a slower one than expected, he drops. It happens every year. Remember: I was the original Gerhart guy on the board. I think he will be a great back in the pros, exactly what the Texans need. On the right team, I see him having a 1000 yard, 15 TD rookie season.

Honoring Earl 34
12-20-2009, 10:00 AM
Yep, I know that. That is why I said justly or not. 40 times are sexy. If a player runs a slower one than expected, he drops. It happens every year. Remember: I was the original Gerhart guy on the board. I think he will be a great back in the pros, exactly what the Texans need. On the right team, I see him having a 1000 yard, 15 TD rookie season.

If the Texans don't draft him are you going to switch to the team that drafts him and call the local shows weekly ?

beerlover
12-20-2009, 10:49 AM
:barman: I hope your drunk because if you are making that kind of statement sober then your out of your mind.

:strangle:

steelbtexan
12-20-2009, 12:24 PM
After watching our RB's fumble all year I would settle for a RB that doesn't fumble and can convert 3rd and 1.

I dont think that is asking to much.

rmartin65
12-20-2009, 01:51 PM
If the Texans don't draft him are you going to switch to the team that drafts him and call the local shows weekly ?

Ha, nope. Texans fan first, always.

Corrosion
12-20-2009, 03:44 PM
After watching our RB's fumble all year I would settle for a RB that doesn't fumble and can convert 3rd and 1.

I dont think that is asking to much.

Obviously for this team it is asking too much .... ugh , makes me sick watching them - Almost reminds me of any Oilers team that was playing the Steelers .... they just found a way to screw up.

This team has a few holes to fill ... RB is a HUGE one.

mussop
12-21-2009, 01:38 AM
:strangle:

Oh yeh well :slapfight:

mussop
12-26-2009, 05:43 PM
Oh yeh well :slapfight:

Sorry there should of been a :) at the end of this post.

rmartin65
12-31-2009, 02:41 PM
This is interesting. Toby has 77 yards and a TD already. But OU has caused Toby to fumble twice. Then again, Gerhart has recovered both of them, one of them for a TD.

If the RB fumbles, recovers it and scores, is it a rushing TD or a FR TD? SI.com has it as 1 rushing and one off the fumble recovery, but the TV has it as 2 rushing.

Corrosion
12-31-2009, 02:57 PM
This is interesting. Toby has 77 yards and a TD already. But OU has caused Toby to fumble twice. Then again, Gerhart has recovered both of them, one of them for a TD.

If the RB fumbles, recovers it and scores, is it a rushing TD or a FR TD? SI.com has it as 1 rushing and one off the fumble recovery, but the TV has it as 2 rushing.

He's a hard , downhill runner , but I think he's gonna have trouble holding onto the ball in the NFL. He's just a bit careless with the ball , many occasions I saw him holding it away from his body arms flailing around. He got away with it in college but that will be something defenses pick up on and target quickly in the NFL.

If that can be corrected he'll be a productive back .... I wouldnt want him any earlier than the 3rd. If someone else takes him earlier , fine - Lets fix the interior OL , S and CB spots.


:barman:

ArlingtonTexan
12-31-2009, 03:26 PM
:barman:

Actually, i saw a guy on another board who compared Gerhart to a Houston Texans favorite :hairpull: Chris Brown. Upright running style, not a volume fumbler, but not exactly trustworthy either. Not my take but to todays game has me thinking.

stingray
12-31-2009, 04:01 PM
Actually, i saw a guy on another board who compared Gerhart to a Houston Texans favorite :hairpull: Chris Brown. Upright running style, not a volume fumbler, but not exactly trustworthy either. Not my take but to todays game has me thinking.

Chris Brown had a couple good years with the Tacks, he was just hurt too much. But yeah, he was known as a fumbler.

bah007
01-03-2010, 06:54 PM
Gerhart put up good numbers against OU (the best defense he has faced this year). But he fumbled three times. You just can't have that. He's not always gonna be lucky enough to recover all of them.

Corrosion
01-03-2010, 10:58 PM
Gerhart put up good numbers against OU (the best defense he has faced this year). But he fumbled three times. You just can't have that. He's not always gonna be lucky enough to recover all of them.

I really think his position has benifited up until this point by the level of competition he has faced in the CrAP 10. The defenses he has faced were no where near the calibur in the Big 12 or SEC or those he will face in the NFL. Oklahoma's defense is about as close as you can get to an NFL defense (sure there are a couple better) and he put the ball on the turf 3 times.

I wouldnt touch him until late in the 3rd or beyond. Turnovers kill ....

jppaul
01-06-2010, 10:02 PM
I don't see a complete back in this draft, I like a couple of backs: Spiller and Best come to mind but they are far from complete, and neither can run inside worth a lick.

So if it is a two back, I would take Gerhardt, he runs with a good pad level, and nifty feet for his size, reminds me a little bit of Bettis and Alstot. Not so sure about the Marion Barber comparison, not quite sure he runs with that kind of violence.

bah007
01-08-2010, 12:02 PM
I don't see a complete back in this draft, I like a couple of backs: Spiller and Best come to mind but they are far from complete, and neither can run inside worth a lick.

So if it is a two back, I would take Gerhardt, he runs with a good pad level, and nifty feet for his size, reminds me a little bit of Bettis and Alstot. Not so sure about the Marion Barber comparison, not quite sure he runs with that kind of violence.

I think Ryan Mathews is probably the closest thing to a complete back in this draft. I think he will end up being the best.

b0ng
01-08-2010, 06:05 PM
Can you expand on that? Why do you think he will suck? Do you think he is another Ron Dayne?

He's white.

beerlover
01-16-2010, 11:09 AM
he's in- http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d815bf6da&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

YoungTexanFan
01-16-2010, 11:23 AM
What gets people excited about Gerhart is his ability and willingness to square his pads after initial contact and then his balance. His best runs were where he kept his balance using his hands to the ground and a proper weight shift through momentum. That is a drill that I know every single running back ever has gone through since middle school. I think he will be a good RB at the next level. Production against good teams is production against good teams. He won't be an upper tier back, but he should be able to get 700-800 yards and 8-9 TD's as a rookie if he gets a split shift on the carries.

I think his ceiling is mid second round, and I think he actually goes late second.

The best comparison I can think of from the NFL is Bettis. Yeah, they have different body types but they have a similar running style and for being "bigger" RB's, they both have incredible intangible balance. Tough to bring down and they produce at the goal line.

False Start
01-16-2010, 11:25 AM
He's white.

Alrighty then.........

I really wouldn't mind if the Texans could somehow pick this kid up in the draft.

beerlover
01-16-2010, 11:31 AM
What gets people excited about Gerhart is his ability and willingness to square his pads after initial contact and then his balance. His best runs were where he kept his balance using his hands to the ground and a proper weight shift through momentum. That is a drill that I know every single running back ever has gone through since middle school. I think he will be a good RB at the next level. Production against good teams is production against good teams. He won't be an upper tier back, but he should be able to get 700-800 yards and 8-9 TD's as a rookie if he gets a split shift on the carries.

I think his ceiling is mid second round, and I think he actually goes late second.

The best comparison I can think of from the NFL is Bettis. Yeah, they have different body types but they have a similar running style and for being "bigger" RB's, they both have incredible intangible balance. Tough to bring down and they produce at the goal line.

also blocks both in pass protection & downfield, no question about smarts or character as well-

rmartin65
01-16-2010, 12:10 PM
Yep, Toby is my second round pick all the way. I would be willing to trade up for him. YTF's analysis was very good, the Bettis comparison was very apt, in my opinion.

Corrosion
01-16-2010, 12:58 PM
I cant see how everyone is so over the top for drafting this guy , he had the benifit of playing in a weak defensive conference (overall) and the non conference schedule was devoid of defensive players who who have NFL talent.
The first time he saw a defense with NFL calibur prospects he put the ball on the turf 3 times. Far too often he has the ball away from his body - only contacting the hand and forearm rather than hand forearm and body - In the NFL this is going to be a BIG DEAL especially considering the majority of his carries will come between the tackles.

If he can correct this issue I think he could be a servicable NFL back for a team that employs more of a power scheme - I do not see him fitting the Texans scheme in the least.

b0ng
01-16-2010, 01:31 PM
What I don't understand is if we're all for drafting Gerhat why weren't we all ready to throw a pick at Jacob Hester? They are practically the same player, except that Hester played in a conference with actual defenses.

mussop
01-17-2010, 12:41 PM
I cant see how everyone is so over the top for drafting this guy , he had the benifit of playing in a weak defensive conference (overall) and the non conference schedule was devoid of defensive players who who have NFL talent.
The first time he saw a defense with NFL calibur prospects he put the ball on the turf 3 times. Far too often he has the ball away from his body - only contacting the hand and forearm rather than hand forearm and body - In the NFL this is going to be a BIG DEAL especially considering the majority of his carries will come between the tackles.

If he can correct this issue I think he could be a servicable NFL back for a team that employs more of a power scheme - I do not see him fitting the Texans scheme in the least.

I think Bong hit it on the head. He's white.

I think its really hard to gauge his ability based on what he did in college. First and foremost the competition was questionable. On top of that he had a really good OL. Go watch any of his highllight videos and you will notice that he doesnt get touched most of the time until he is at the second level.

The one sure thing you can get from watching his college games is his running style. He is a bruiser that doesnt shy away from contact. If he is effective in the NFL he will take a beating and RB's like that have a short shelf life in the NFL.

I cant see any team drafting him before the third round. I cant see us drafting him before the fourth.

rmartin65
01-17-2010, 01:11 PM
Are people really trying to bring race into this? Wow.

Come on, he was statistically the best back in the nation last year. Injury concerns are crap. Any back can take a bad hit and be done for his career. AP was injury prone in college, and he has not missed much in the pros.

b0ng
01-17-2010, 01:32 PM
Are people really trying to bring race into this? Wow.

Come on, he was statistically the best back in the nation last year. Injury concerns are crap. Any back can take a bad hit and be done for his career. AP was injury prone in college, and he has not missed much in the pros.

Statistically means diddly poo in the draft. Kevin Smith almost broke Barry Sanders college record and he still got picked well after:

McFadden
Stewart
Jones
Mendenhall
Johnson
Forte
Rice

His true skills will be shown and evaluated in the combine, but my guess is that he gets selected by some team to be their FB. We already have a FB. I only said that he sucked because "He's white" as a joke because everybody knows nowdays white runningback = fullback = mike alstott.

rmartin65
01-17-2010, 02:50 PM
Statistically means diddly poo in the draft. Kevin Smith almost broke Barry Sanders college record and he still got picked well after:

McFadden
Stewart
Jones
Mendenhall
Johnson
Forte
Rice

His true skills will be shown and evaluated in the combine, but my guess is that he gets selected by some team to be their FB. We already have a FB. I only said that he sucked because "He's white" as a joke because everybody knows nowdays white runningback = fullback = mike alstott.

First, the white remark was to mussop, not you. I understood your sarcasm.

Yep, good statistics do not mean a guy will be drafted high. However, good statistics show that a player could be good. Could be, that is why people like Gerhart. He is big (power back is a need for this team. How many more wins would we have if we had someone not named Chris Brown?), agile, and has decent speed.

beerlover
01-17-2010, 03:23 PM
Great Balance, vision, leg drive & low center of gravity carrying significant weight/strength creates a premium pile-driving, red zone scoring machine.


In the Texans need department that ranks right up there :handshake:

steelbtexan
01-17-2010, 03:23 PM
rmartin 65

What do you think about LaMarcus Coker?

I read an article about him and although he got kicked out of Tennessee for smoking pot it seema as though he turned his life around.

His coach speaks highly of his character and work ethic.

I remember him at Tennesee and thought he was the real deal. He is the closest thing to Chris Johnson in this draft. At the very least he could be a great KR/PR.

He's fast and runs with power.

After doing a thourough background check, if he comes back clean I would draft him in the 5th rd.

rmartin65
01-17-2010, 04:00 PM
rmartin 65

What do you think about LaMarcus Coker?

I read an article about him and although he got kicked out of Tennessee for smoking pot it seema as though he turned his life around.

His coach speaks highly of his character and work ethic.

I remember him at Tennesee and thought he was the real deal. He is the closest thing to Chris Johnson in this draft. At the very least he could be a great KR/PR.

He's fast and runs with power.

After doing a thourough background check, if he comes back clean I would draft him in the 5th rd.

I like him. He would be a poor mans CJ, I have him pegged as a 7th rounder. The character questions and the fact that he played FCS knocks him down a bit.

badboy
01-18-2010, 01:52 PM
I cant see how everyone is so over the top for drafting this guy , he had the benifit of playing in a weak defensive conference (overall) and the non conference schedule was devoid of defensive players who who have NFL talent.
The first time he saw a defense with NFL calibur prospects he put the ball on the turf 3 times. Far too often he has the ball away from his body - only contacting the hand and forearm rather than hand forearm and body - In the NFL this is going to be a BIG DEAL especially considering the majority of his carries will come between the tackles.

If he can correct this issue I think he could be a servicable NFL back for a team that employs more of a power scheme - I do not see him fitting the Texans scheme in the least.The ZBS is to misdirect or push certain defensive players a certin direction (lane) to open running plays allowing the running back to make a "one cut and go" popping past the first line of attack. Toby Gerhart seems perfect for Texans as he has the speed and power to take the ball further downfield once past the line. Corrosion, did you ever watch the guy play?

b0ng
01-18-2010, 02:26 PM
First, the white remark was to mussop, not you. I understood your sarcasm.

Yep, good statistics do not mean a guy will be drafted high. However, good statistics show that a player could be good. Could be, that is why people like Gerhart. He is big (power back is a need for this team. How many more wins would we have if we had someone not named Chris Brown?), agile, and has decent speed.

It's the "He's big" part. You don't need to be big to be a power back, you can do it weighing in under 230 and be fine. It's all about drive, quickness and the ability to run in tight spaces.

I really want to see how he does in the combine before I give my analysis on the guy, and he could work in the 3rd round from what I've seen on film, but I think they could be better off using a 3rd round pick on a different position. I'm in the camp of if we are going to use a pick on an RB, lets make sure he's going to take over RB duties, and I don't think Gerhart is a guy you want toting the rock 20-30 times a game.

If people want to draft Gerhart I think we should hope that he falls to us in a later round (4th and beyond) so that we've already filled bigger needs on our team (DB's, OG/C, maybe even a nice DT) and he'd be a luxury and a value.

badboy
01-18-2010, 02:52 PM
It's the "He's big" part. You don't need to be big to be a power back, you can do it weighing in under 230 and be fine. It's all about drive, quickness and the ability to run in tight spaces.

I really want to see how he does in the combine before I give my analysis on the guy, and he could work in the 3rd round from what I've seen on film, but I think they could be better off using a 3rd round pick on a different position. I'm in the camp of if we are going to use a pick on an RB, lets make sure he's going to take over RB duties, and I don't think Gerhart is a guy you want toting the rock 20-30 times a game.

If people want to draft Gerhart I think we should hope that he falls to us in a later round (4th and beyond) so that we've already filled bigger needs on our team (DB's, OG/C, maybe even a nice DT) and he'd be a luxury and a value.Bong, you are missing the point. Big is just part of it. Sure some guys under 230 are great RBs, but nearly every coach wants a player that is fast/quick and big. Would you rather have a LG like Asamoah that is 6'4" 315 and 5.08 or Iupati 6'5" 335 5.28? Most take Iupati. Gerhart has the drive, quickness and ability to run in tight places. He led the nation divsion one yardage 1,871 but also had 28TDs. He won the Doak Walker for best running back in nation and was 84 votes behind Ingram for Heisman. Awards and stats mean little but they are tools that we can look at.

Gerhart probably can carry the ball 20-25 times but he will not have to. What NFL back consistently has more than 22 per game? If Slaton is healthy and with another back like Moats or Foster, we could have a very fresh strong game in 4th quarter and last half of season. He is not a one hit wonder in college bust steadily put up the numbers including average per carry.

b0ng
01-18-2010, 03:01 PM
Bong, you are missing the point. Big is just part of it. Sure some guys under 230 are great RBs, but nearly every coach wants a player that is fast/quick and big. Would you rather have a LG like Asamoah that is 6'4" 315 and 5.08 or Iupati 6'5" 335 5.28? Most take Iupati. Gerhart has the drive, quickness and ability to run in tight places. He led the nation divsion one yardage 1,871 but also had 28TDs. He won the Doak Walker for best running back in nation and was 84 votes behind Ingram for Heisman. Awards and stats mean little but they are tools that we can look at.

Gerhart probably can carry the ball 20-25 times but he will not have to. What NFL back consistently has more than 22 per game? If Slaton is healthy and with another back like Moats or Foster, we could have a very fresh stron game in 4th quarter and last half of season. He is not a one hit wonder in college bust steadily put up the numbers including average per carry.

My point is that a guy doesn't have to be big to do well in short yardage situations, and that I feel a lot of coaches know this and even tend to shy away from guys who are "too big", or they just draft em to be a FB.

Again, I don't see Gerhart as an RB1, but this opinion could change after I see him perform in individual drills. Right now, judging from his game film, I'd say he'd be a decent 3rd rounder, or a valuable 4th rounder. This could easily change as the fluidity of the draft is ever changing up until the end of April. I watch Gerhart and I see Alstott (Who was a very good player in his own, but not a guy that you want toting the rock so many times a game).

Also CJ came in a hair over 22 carries per game, but his workload was definitely increased when VY became the starter (Draw your own conclusions here). Michael Turner last year carried 23.5 times a game in 2008 and LJ carried it about 26 times a game in 2006. It happens if you are a good back and your team has no real weapons outside the RB on offense.

b0ng
01-18-2010, 10:11 PM
He won the Doak Walker for best running back in nation

I know this has absolutely no bearing on whether Gerhart will fail or flop in the NFL, but let me introduce you to:

Luke Staley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luke_Staley).

rmartin65
01-18-2010, 10:20 PM
I know this has absolutely no bearing on whether Gerhart will fail or flop in the NFL, but let me introduce you to:

Luke Staley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luke_Staley).

Injuries can happen to anyone.

Corrosion
01-19-2010, 05:24 AM
The ZBS is to misdirect or push certain defensive players a certin direction (lane) to open running plays allowing the running back to make a "one cut and go" popping past the first line of attack. Toby Gerhart seems perfect for Texans as he has the speed and power to take the ball further downfield once past the line. Corrosion, did you ever watch the guy play?

Of course I have - why do you think I made the statements about how he carry's the ball away from his body far too often. That is my main concern with him as an NFL player.

badboy
01-19-2010, 10:30 AM
Of course I have - why do you think I made the statements about how he carry's the ball away from his body far too often. That is my main concern with him as an NFL player.I thought it was possible that you read or heard someone else make a point and then voiced it. It was not an attack on you but trying to clarify why you seem to value him lower than most. I agree about his handling of the football as most RBs I've watched began their poor ball management (if that is correct terminology)in public school and were never corrected. A good running back coach should be able to fix that. I have yet to see an evaluation of Gerhart stating his fumbling is of major concern.

BigBull17
01-19-2010, 10:42 AM
Statistically means diddly poo in the draft. Kevin Smith almost broke Barry Sanders college record and he still got picked well after:

McFadden
Stewart
Jones
Mendenhall
Johnson
Forte
Rice

His true skills will be shown and evaluated in the combine, but my guess is that he gets selected by some team to be their FB. We already have a FB. I only said that he sucked because "He's white" as a joke because everybody knows nowdays white runningback = fullback = mike alstott.

I wouldn't have a problem if we got a guy who produced at the level of Mike Alstot in the mid-late 2nd round.

Corrosion
01-19-2010, 10:46 AM
I thought it was possible that you read or heard someone else make a point and then voiced it. It was not an attack on you but trying to clarify why you seem to value him lower than most. I agree about his handling of the football as most RBs I've watched began their poor ball management (if that is correct terminology)in public school and were never corrected. A good running back coach should be able to fix that. I have yet to see an evaluation of Gerhart stating his fumbling is of major concern.

Its obvious by how often the Texans RB's put the ball on the turf this season they DONT have one of those .....

As for Gerhart's ball security issues - I dont think anyone else has put it in print. Ive watched him all year and its just something I noticed - the way he carry's the ball is just asking for trouble. Much of the time he only has contact with the ball on two points. He will cover it well in heavy traffic ...

Watch some video and you'll see what I mean - I guess its not the first thing most people look for when watching a RB.

Yes, he's a tough runner with good speed but I think he has also benifited greatly from a very good OL and a very weak schedule defensively.

badboy
01-21-2010, 02:23 PM
Its obvious by how often the Texans RB's put the ball on the turf this season they DONT have one of those .....

As for Gerhart's ball security issues - I dont think anyone else has put it in print. Ive watched him all year and its just something I noticed - the way he carry's the ball is just asking for trouble. Much of the time he only has contact with the ball on two points. He will cover it well in heavy traffic ...

Watch some video and you'll see what I mean - I guess its not the first thing most people look for when watching a RB.

Yes, he's a tough runner with good speed but I think he has also benifited greatly from a very good OL and a very weak schedule defensively.In the bowl game his QB Luck did not play and his Oline seemed non-existant. He had statistically one of his worse games with 135 yards & two TDs om 38 attempts. No fumbles. If I can get this guy in 3rd great but I just think it is like believing the babe you have been eyeing will be available for the prom and when you finally call her, she accepted someone else's offer the day before. Another date may be on your arm but it just will not be the same.

Corrosion
01-21-2010, 06:02 PM
In the bowl game his QB Luck did not play and his Oline seemed non-existant. He had statistically one of his worse games with 135 yards & two TDs om 38 attempts. No fumbles. If I can get this guy in 3rd great but I just think it is like believing the babe you have been eyeing will be available for the prom and when you finally call her, she accepted someone else's offer the day before. Another date may be on your arm but it just will not be the same.

He fumbled the ball 3 times ... the team lost none of those but it does not change the fact he put the ball on the turf 3x.


Again , watch some video of him and you will see exactly why I question his ability to hold onto the ball.

Hell just watch the ESPN highlight against ND where he hurdles a guy ... on the way to the endzone .... his arms and the ball are above his shoulders , almost looked like a chicken taking flight.
With the way he runs - almost as if he's looking to blast someone - he has to fix the way he totes the ball.

badboy
01-22-2010, 01:21 PM
He fumbled the ball 3 times ... the team lost none of those but it does not change the fact he put the ball on the turf 3x.


Again , watch some video of him and you will see exactly why I question his ability to hold onto the ball.

Hell just watch the ESPN highlight against ND where he hurdles a guy ... on the way to the endzone .... his arms and the ball are above his shoulders , almost looked like a chicken taking flight.
With the way he runs - almost as if he's looking to blast someone - he has to fix the way he totes the ball.Agreed on working with him but that can be said on every player coming into the draft. So far, in the current NFL playoffs, professionals are fumbling. I just think his tangibles are amazing with only Dwyer coming close. Any idea what his fumbles to attempts were for college career? I'd like to know.

bah007
01-22-2010, 01:33 PM
I'm still not completely sold on Gerhart. Right now he is my #6 RB and I have him going in the third round. Granted, I'm no "expert" but he just doesn't do it for me. To me, he looks very similar to Ron Dayne (who was a decent NFL back, but I guarantee the Giants wish they had not used a first round pick on him).

I wouldn't be surprised if his RT (Chris Marinelli) gets picked before he does.

mussop
01-23-2010, 12:17 AM
I'm still not completely sold on Gerhart. Right now he is my #6 RB and I have him going in the third round. Granted, I'm no "expert" but he just doesn't do it for me. To me, he looks very similar to Ron Dayne (who was a decent NFL back, but I guarantee the Giants wish they had not used a first round pick on him).

I wouldn't be surprised if his RT (Chris Marinelli) gets picked before he does.

I couldnt agree more.

otisbean
01-23-2010, 06:58 AM
Statistically means diddly poo in the draft. Kevin Smith almost broke Barry Sanders college record and he still got picked well after:

McFadden
Stewart
Jones
Mendenhall
Johnson
Forte
Rice

His true skills will be shown and evaluated in the combine, but my guess is that he gets selected by some team to be their FB. We already have a FB. I only said that he sucked because "He's white" as a joke because everybody knows nowdays white runningback = fullback = mike alstott.

His true skills will be shown in the combine? No, the combine will give you some insight into his athletic ability, but his skills have been shown on the football field. The dude can play, period.

ubecool454
01-27-2010, 08:06 PM
Gerhart would be smarter to go to MLB and play.

HOU-TEX
02-22-2010, 03:08 PM
I think he'd definitely turn some heads if this ends up being the case.

Stanford RB Toby Gerhart says he is capable of running a 4.43 in the forty-yard dash.

"Once I post some good times I think things will settle out," Gerhart said of his stock. "I can't wait to go out there and turn some heads at the Combine. I want to play running back and be the feature back." Gerhart will stay at tailback if he runs in the low-4.4s on Sunday. The Doak Walker Award winner may be ticketed for fullback if he can't break 4.5 in Indianapolis.

http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/playernews.aspx?sport=NFL

Blake
02-22-2010, 03:40 PM
This just in. Toby Gerhart is white causing his draft stock to plummet.

El Tejano
02-22-2010, 03:42 PM
Has anyone ever compared this guy to Tom Rathman? The other day when I was watching NFL Network Best Ever, I saw Roger Craig and Tom Rathman at #8 Best Ever Backfield duos. When I saw Rathman and immediately thought of this Gerhart dude.

badboy
02-22-2010, 03:44 PM
I think he'd definitely turn some heads if this ends up being the case.



http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/playernews.aspx?sport=NFL
Gerhart has stated before he will turn heads at combine running the 40. We will see.

Goatcheese
02-22-2010, 03:52 PM
I think he'll run a 4.55 - 4.60 at the combine and fall to the 3-4th round. :runaway:

badboy
02-22-2010, 04:04 PM
I think he'll run a 4.55 - 4.60 at the combine and fall the the 3-4th round. :runaway:RMartin65 has him doing about that also. If he is there that late and we do not draft him I'll be even angrier than last off season.

painekiller
02-22-2010, 04:21 PM
Has anyone ever compared this guy to Tom Rathman? The other day when I was watching NFL Network Best Ever, I saw Roger Craig and Tom Rathman at #8 Best Ever Backfield duos. When I saw Rathman and immediately thought of this Gerhart dude.
reminds me more of John Riggins running the ball

Ole Miss Texan
02-22-2010, 04:49 PM
I don't think running a 4.43 vs a 4.50 will have any effect on what position he plays in the NFL.

otisbean
02-23-2010, 07:00 AM
Don't get caught up in the numbers game at the combine. There are a ton of really successful RBs that run in the 4.5s. Conversely, there are tons of unsuccessful speed demons. For example, Darren McFadden has not set the NFL on fire despite running a 4.3 at the combine, while Michael Bush has looked terrific on the same team with the same OL. Bush ran a 4.5 if I remember correctly

There are other, more important qualities, that great RBs have including, balance, vision, core strength, agility, acceleration, and toughness.

bigbrewster2000
02-23-2010, 07:38 AM
Don't get caught up in the numbers game at the combine. There are a ton of really successful RBs that run in the 4.5s. Conversely, there are tons of unsuccessful speed demons. For example, Darren McFadden has not set the NFL on fire despite running a 4.3 at the combine, while Michael Bush has looked terrific on the same team with the same OL. Bush ran a 4.5 if I remember correctly

There are other, more important qualities, that great RBs have including, balance, vision, core strength, agility, acceleration, and toughness.

Actually he never ran one because he broke his leg during his senior year of college and wasnt close to healed when the combine came around. He was still not ready when the season started his rookie year if I am not mistaken.

badboy
02-23-2010, 09:45 AM
Come on guys, speed for wide receivers, running backs and corners is one of the highest valued markers used by teams. No one is saying that a slower player can not be good or that the 40 speed is the only tool used, but it is foolish to completely disregard it. I will step on the limb and say if Gerhart runs sub 4.50 it will greatly improve his draft status. Same for Dwyer who is credited with better speed than TG.

painekiller
02-23-2010, 09:55 AM
Don't get caught up in the numbers game at the combine. There are a ton of really successful RBs that run in the 4.5s. Conversely, there are tons of unsuccessful speed demons. For example, Darren McFadden has not set the NFL on fire despite running a 4.3 at the combine, while Michael Bush has looked terrific on the same team with the same OL. Bush ran a 4.5 if I remember correctly

There are other, more important qualities, that great RBs have including, balance, vision, core strength, agility, acceleration, and toughness.

Terrill Davis ran a 4.6 IIRC.

Ole Miss Texan
02-23-2010, 11:46 AM
All else equal, of course you want the faster guy. There's a big difference between running 40 yards straight, indoors, on field turf, in gym shorts and a t-shirt vs. fully suited up in pads and having to make 1 cut and go. I prefer explosion, the first 10-20 yards vs. top end speed and the full 40. That goes for WR, RB and CB. For a WR to be truly successful, he needs to have his man beat within 10 yds the majority of the time. For a RB to be successful (esp in our system), he needs to be able to make a cut and ACCELERATE... not run full speed from the get go. For a CB to be successful, he needs to be able to close quickly and have that burst. Top end speed is severely overrated, its the burst, the explosion and the acceleration that I think is overwhelmingly important. Sometimes the two go hand in hand, sometimes they don't.

infantrycak
02-23-2010, 11:54 AM
All else equal, of course you want the faster guy. There's a big difference between running 40 yards straight, indoors, on field turf, in gym shorts and a t-shirt vs. fully suited up in pads and having to make 1 cut and go. I prefer explosion, the first 10-20 yards vs. top end speed and the full 40. That goes for WR, RB and CB. For a WR to be truly successful, he needs to have his man beat within 10 yds the majority of the time. For a RB to be successful (esp in our system), he needs to be able to make a cut and ACCELERATE... not run full speed from the get go. For a CB to be successful, he needs to be able to close quickly and have that burst. Top end speed is severely overrated, its the burst, the explosion and the acceleration that I think is overwhelmingly important. Sometimes the two go hand in hand, sometimes they don't.

Good example of what you are talking about was Domanick Davis. He was never going to bust off an 80 yd run but he had fantastic first 3 step acceleration so he rarely took a loss and could hit holes as soon as they opened.

badboy
02-23-2010, 11:56 AM
All else equal, of course you want the faster guy. There's a big difference between running 40 yards straight, indoors, on field turf, in gym shorts and a t-shirt vs. fully suited up in pads and having to make 1 cut and go. I prefer explosion, the first 10-20 yards vs. top end speed and the full 40. That goes for WR, RB and CB. For a WR to be truly successful, he needs to have his man beat within 10 yds the majority of the time. For a RB to be successful (esp in our system), he needs to be able to make a cut and ACCELERATE... not run full speed from the get go. For a CB to be successful, he needs to be able to close quickly and have that burst. Top end speed is severely overrated, its the burst, the explosion and the acceleration that I think is overwhelmingly important. Sometimes the two go hand in hand, sometimes they don't.I agree with you intial burst comment. It would be nice to have a back that can get past the line and then haul it to the end zone.

playa465
02-23-2010, 03:44 PM
All else equal, of course you want the faster guy. There's a big difference between running 40 yards straight, indoors, on field turf, in gym shorts and a t-shirt vs. fully suited up in pads and having to make 1 cut and go. I prefer explosion, the first 10-20 yards vs. top end speed and the full 40. That goes for WR, RB and CB. For a WR to be truly successful, he needs to have his man beat within 10 yds the majority of the time. For a RB to be successful (esp in our system), he needs to be able to make a cut and ACCELERATE... not run full speed from the get go. For a CB to be successful, he needs to be able to close quickly and have that burst. Top end speed is severely overrated, its the burst, the explosion and the acceleration that I think is overwhelmingly important. Sometimes the two go hand in hand, sometimes they don't.

Give this lady a prize....

HOU-TEX
02-24-2010, 09:12 AM
Give this lady a prize....

Ha, hey Ole Miss, you're being called a woman again.

playa465
02-24-2010, 02:46 PM
Ha, hey Ole Miss, you're being called a woman again.

haha...I know the moniker...I was referring to the old carnival saying when u hit the jackpot :rake:

Dutchrudder
02-26-2010, 12:33 PM
If the Texans do draft Toby Gerhart, would he be used as a running back or a full back? Vonta Leach is about 30 now, so I don't know how many more years he will be playing, but maybe Gerhart could work his way into that position over the next 2-3 years.

How is Gerhart's blocking?

HuttoKarl
02-26-2010, 12:45 PM
If the Texans do draft Toby Gerhart, would he be used as a running back or a full back? Vonta Leach is about 30 now, so I don't know how many more years he will be playing, but maybe Gerhart could work his way into that position over the next 2-3 years.

How is Gerhart's blocking?

He'll be a halfback...the "Toby is a fullback" thing is BSPN's way of saying "Toby is a white guy."

bah007
02-26-2010, 01:06 PM
He'll be a halfback...the "Toby is a fullback" thing is BSPN's way of saying "Toby is a white guy."

Agreed.

rmartin65
02-26-2010, 04:15 PM
He'll be a halfback...the "Toby is a fullback" thing is BSPN's way of saying "Toby is a white guy."

Thank you for that. Jesus people, he is not a FB!

steelbtexan
02-26-2010, 05:51 PM
thank you for that. Jesus people, he is not a fb!

lol

eriadoc
02-26-2010, 06:02 PM
Good example of what you are talking about was Domanick Davis. He was never going to bust off an 80 yd run but he had fantastic first 3 step acceleration so he rarely took a loss and could hit holes as soon as they opened.

Exactly! People always wanted a back that could go 80 yards in one play, all the while overlooking what a good back Davis was. We don't necessarily need Adrian Peterson here to be successful (although it would be nice, sans the fumbles). We need a guy that has burst and good vision.

steelbtexan
02-27-2010, 01:25 AM
Exactly! People always wanted a back that could go 80 yards in one play, all the while overlooking what a good back Davis was. We don't necessarily need Adrian Peterson here to be successful (although it would be nice, sans the fumbles). We need a guy that has burst and good vision.

What's sad is L.White ran foe an 80 yd TD against K.C.

There have been no 80 yd TD's in Texan history by anybody not named Steve Slaton.

El Tejano
02-27-2010, 01:50 AM
LaGarrett Blount has had a 69 and 72 yard TD before. I really like his balance. He doesn't go down with first hit.

When I see Gerhart, I don't see him take a hit. The NFL is going to hit this dude. I need to see what happens when someone hits him.

I'm seeing more footage of Blount and I'm sorry, that is the dude we need. Yes he's big but dude is athletic. Hurdling dudes? Running over them? Check it out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPjKLI9u8i4&NR=1

threetoedpete
02-27-2010, 02:25 PM
LaGarrett Blount has had a 69 and 72 yard TD before. I really like his balance. He doesn't go down with first hit.

When I see Gerhart, I don't see him take a hit. The NFL is going to hit this dude. I need to see what happens when someone hits him.

I'm seeing more footage of Blount and I'm sorry, that is the dude we need. Yes he's big but dude is athletic. Hurdling dudes? Running over them? Check it out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPjKLI9u8i4&NR=1

Well you can check it out if you wish. But all of the scouts and draft guru's said basically the same thing about Oklahoma's Lawrence Phillips when he came out. Sometimes too good to be true just might be a fact. I'm not against taking him by no means. Nor will I bang any club for drafting the guy. But make no mistake about it...
Legarrett is a Buyer beware guy all the way. You either get a boom or he's going to blow up in your face.

playa465
02-27-2010, 02:40 PM
Well you can check it out if you wish. But all of the scouts and draft guru's said basically the same thing about Oklahoma's Lawrence Phillips when he came out. Sometimes too good to be true just might be a fact. I'm not against taking him by no means. Nor will I bang any club for drafting the guy. But make no mistake about it...
Legarrett is a Buyer beware guy all the way. You either get a boom or he's going to blow up in your face.

Psycho Phillips played for the Cornhuskers and he had multiple troubles while he was there...I don't know but has Blount had any infractions other than the punch after the Boise St game?

The Pencil Neck
02-27-2010, 02:44 PM
Psycho Phillips played for the Cornhuskers and he had multiple troubles while he was there...I don't know but has Blount had any infractions other than the punch after the Boise St game?

He's got a history of having issues with his coach and skipping team meetings and not showing up for workouts.

So there are definitely some character flags with this guy.

krocket
02-27-2010, 02:47 PM
. . . . But make no mistake about it... Legarrett (sic) is a Buyer beware guy all the way. You either get a boom or he's going to blow up in your face.Is This based on your opinion or on fact? Are you referring to the incident (blow up) that he was benched for against Boise St. or just in general. As a matter of fact in the Boise incident the other guy started it although as usual you just see the second hit.

I watched LeGarette Blount in the Senior Bowl and IMHO he was the best back in the game. Personally, I don't mind a small mean streak in our players, as long as they don't make a habit of getting thrown out of games.

The Pencil Neck
02-28-2010, 02:28 AM
Is This based on your opinion or on fact? Are you referring to the incident (blow up) that he was benched for against Boise St. or just in general. As a matter of fact in the Boise incident the other guy started it although as usual you just see the second hit.

I watched LeGarette Blount in the Senior Bowl and IMHO he was the best back in the game. Personally, I don't mind a small mean streak in our players, as long as they don't make a habit of getting thrown out of games.

Like I posted before, he's had a history of not getting along with coaches and skipping meetings and missing workouts. And he's been suspended for these things.

For TTP and me to agree about pretty much anything is rare and I've got the same sort of Lawrence Phillips danger signals going off that TTP does. Blount might be able to pull it together and become a great back in the NFL. He's definitely got the talent to do that. But his character issues are probably going to drive him down people's draft boards and totally off some draft boards... like ours.

I would be shocked if we draft him.

bah007
02-28-2010, 03:39 AM
Psycho Phillips played for the Cornhuskers and he had multiple troubles while he was there...I don't know but has Blount had any infractions other than the punch after the Boise St game?

Blount has been a coach's nightmare going all the way back to high school. Beerlover already covered it but this guy has had disciplinary problems time and time and time again and people still keep giving him chances. You get one (two if you are lucky) chance in the NFL. Blount is a very talented football player but I am very confident in predicting that he is going to screw it all up again at some point.

steelbtexan
02-28-2010, 10:27 AM
Like I posted before, he's had a history of not getting along with coaches and skipping meetings and missing workouts. And he's been suspended for these things.

For TTP and me to agree about pretty much anything is rare and I've got the same sort of Lawrence Phillips danger signals going off that TTP does. Blount might be able to pull it together and become a great back in the NFL. He's definitely got the talent to do that. But his character issues are probably going to drive him down people's draft boards and totally off some draft boards... like ours.

I would be shocked if we draft him.

Count me in this group.

The difference is Phillips was a top 5 pick.

Blount will probably go in the 4th rd. The $ investment is less. If he fails to get with the program you can cut him with no reprecussions.

I wouldn't pick him before the 5th rd. He would be a great value there, and no the Texans wont take Blount

rmartin65
02-28-2010, 01:19 PM
Gerhart just ran an unofficial 4.53, while Dwyer ran a 4.59. For what its worth.

Ryan
02-28-2010, 01:27 PM
Definitely helped his status out.

mussop
02-28-2010, 11:47 PM
Gerhart just ran an unofficial 4.53, while Dwyer ran a 4.59. For what its worth.

Dwyer is still better. :kitten::)

rmartin65
04-15-2010, 08:29 PM
Sports Illustrated is getting on the bandwagon

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/don_banks/04/15/toby.gerhart/

eriadoc
04-15-2010, 10:07 PM
As I said elsewhere (maybe in this thread), I want Gerhart on this team. Apparently, I'm one of the few.

painekiller
04-16-2010, 01:43 AM
As I said elsewhere (maybe in this thread), I want Gerhart on this team. Apparently, I'm one of the few.

You'll like this mock then

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1407385&postcount=34

rmartin65
04-16-2010, 06:51 AM
As I said elsewhere (maybe in this thread), I want Gerhart on this team. Apparently, I'm one of the few.

There are a good amount of us that want Gerhart. We have just become less vocal, as you can only repeat the same information so many times.

I am betting on Gerhart having a top 3 career from this RB draft class.

IDEXAN
04-16-2010, 07:06 AM
There are a good amount of us that want Gerhart. We have just become less vocal, as you can only repeat the same information so many times.

I am betting on Gerhart having a top 3 career from this RB draft class.
I just wonder if the Texans are really interested in taking him ? What one would give to see their Draft board ?
If Slaton was fully healthy, wouldn't this guy seem so obvious as our "Mr. Inside" to complement SS ?
Does this guy remind anybody of Steve Owens ?

HuttoKarl
04-16-2010, 09:13 AM
I definitely wouldn't be opposed to having him on our team...I'd rather have CJ Spiller slip to us, but would "settle" for Toby or Mathews or Tate.

Still think we need to come out of the 7th round with 2 drafted RB's.

kiwitexansfan
04-16-2010, 09:17 AM
There are a good amount of us that want Gerhart. We have just become less vocal, as you can only repeat the same information so many times.

I am betting on Gerhart having a top 3 career from this RB draft class.

Who are your other two?

Spiller and Mathews?

kastofsna
04-16-2010, 10:28 AM
Gerhart is the kinda guy that everyone would love on their team

rmartin65
04-16-2010, 12:39 PM
Who are your other two?

Spiller and Mathews?

Actually, I have become less enthused with Mathews. I got caught up in the hype of the combine and such, I am getting back to watching tape.

Spiller, yes, because he can provide so many yards in so many ways.

The other back that should have a good career is Tate. While I dont think he will tear up the league, he should be a consistent 1,000 yard, 8 TD kind of player.

badboy
04-16-2010, 02:33 PM
Sports Illustrated is getting on the bandwagon

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/don_banks/04/15/toby.gerhart/Worst news I have ever heard, 65! Slow wink goes here. Right now we need GMs looking elsewhere, except for Smith. Thanks again for guiding me to TG when I was pushing Dwyer months ago.

Blake
04-16-2010, 03:35 PM
Gerhart is the kinda guy that everyone would love on their team

Yes. Just in the 3rd round.

kiwitexansfan
04-16-2010, 03:50 PM
I'm really leaning towards Gerhart and Dwyer as my preferred running backs.

I like a big, hard running back, and if Slaton is back to his previous form it would be a great complimentary pairing.

rmartin65
04-16-2010, 04:07 PM
Worst news I have ever heard, 65! Slow wink goes here. Right now we need GMs looking elsewhere, except for Smith. Thanks again for guiding me to TG when I was pushing Dwyer months ago.

Ain't that the truth. He might not be there for the Texans second round pick, and if I were a betting man I would wager quite a lot saying he won't be available at the third. If the Texans want him, they need to take him with the 2nd.

No worries, that is why I love this board. You get info on players you dont know as well, and it gives you a better look on the draft. You have done the same for me.