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badboy
12-16-2009, 09:46 AM
McNair was a leader in pushing for an uncapped year next season and I anticipate him opening his check book in free agency. What about the draft? If cap is not an issue, would it be a good deal to trade to get more picks this next draft? I have us selecting in the #15 spot which should get us another solid player. How about buying another top 12 or so pick with trade using some of our picks this year and first and second rounds the following year? If Kubes is back, there will be a lot of pressure on him to go after game changers.

nero THE zero
12-16-2009, 09:49 AM
McNair was a leader in pushing for an uncapped year next season

Says who?

GP
12-16-2009, 09:51 AM
This franchise will NEVER explore the avenues of "opening up the checkbook" as has been claimed for the past 7 years.

I've been hearing that McNair will open up his wallet every off-season, especially after we got rid of the Casserly-era dead money.

Posters galore were on here jumping for joy and imagining all sorts of HUGE deals we would pull off. The belief that mcNair will open his wallet ranks up there with Bigfoot sightings, IMO. Sounds cool, but it's not happening.

Additionally, this franchise will NEVER move up in the draft. That's also not the sort of operation McNair runs. You either stay where you are at, or you move DOWN if there's any moving to be done.

I see we're already starting the Keep Hope Alive tour around here. :heart:

Mr. White
12-16-2009, 09:57 AM
This franchise will NEVER explore the avenues of "opening up the checkbook" as has been claimed for the past 7 years.

I've been hearing that McNair will open up his wallet every off-season, especially after we got rid of the Casserly-era dead money.

Posters galore were on here jumping for joy and imagining all sorts of HUGE deals we would pull off. The belief that mcNair will open his wallet ranks up there with Bigfoot sightings, IMO. Sounds cool, but it's not happening.

Additionally, this franchise will NEVER move up in the draft. That's also not the sort of operation McNair runs. You either stay where you are at, or you move DOWN if there's any moving to be done.

I see we're already starting the Keep Hope Alive tour around here. :heart:

Well said. Like I've said before, there's no evidence that McNair will spend the money that it's gonna take to put a winner on the field.

History shows that he'd rather protect a profit.

J_R
12-16-2009, 10:04 AM
So they can go spend 9 mil on a 3rd string QB, or overpay for another DE?

(That is also why you wont see a new coach in. McNair reportedly isnt willing to spend the money for a new coach. Say 10 mil, which is reportedly what a guy like Cowher wants. I assume guys like Shanahan,etc arent far behind)

nero THE zero
12-16-2009, 10:05 AM
McNair reportedly isnt willing to spend the money for a new coach.
Reported by who?

Stemp
12-16-2009, 10:09 AM
Reported by who?

Reported by people with no inside knowledge but like to speculate anyway.

J_R
12-16-2009, 10:22 AM
You're right, I have no inside knowledge but has been said many times by McClain, Justice, and Zierlein - guys who do have inside knowledge.

I'll look to see if I can provide any links/stories. Until then, dont believe me.


Some might be disappointed that Cowher doesnt come here, and many will be disappointed that Kubiak may be back after all(even if they do go 7-9,8-8)

I don't care if the new guy is Bill Cowher, Brian Billick, or Jesus Christ himself (and to be clear, it won't be any of them or anyone in the same tax bracket),

http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2009/12/fire_kubiak_or_keep_him.php

badboy
12-16-2009, 10:25 AM
Says who?In May of 2008 all 32 owners voted to have an uncapped year. McNair had voice owner dissatisfaction with rookie contracts (getting high dollar with no NFL experience). Various sport talking head had interviewed McNair saying he was a supporter of opting out of CBA leading to an uncapped year.

DiehardChris
12-16-2009, 10:27 AM
I'm still baffled by how people think spending big free agent dollars is a good thing.

The Jets spent a mint a couple of years ago - they've been around .500. The Redskins go apeshit every offseason in free agency, and they're one of the worst teams in the league. So many people wanted the Texans to go after Albert Haynesworth - and myself and many others KNEW that fat turd wasn't worth even half of what they paid for him. That's not hindsight, either.

Last year the Texans brought in a high-priced free agent - Antonio Smith - and after a slow start, he's been very, very good.

badboy
12-16-2009, 10:29 AM
This franchise will NEVER explore the avenues of "opening up the checkbook" as has been claimed for the past 7 years.

I've been hearing that McNair will open up his wallet every off-season, especially after we got rid of the Casserly-era dead money.

Posters galore were on here jumping for joy and imagining all sorts of HUGE deals we would pull off. The belief that mcNair will open his wallet ranks up there with Bigfoot sightings, IMO. Sounds cool, but it's not happening.

Additionally, this franchise will NEVER move up in the draft. That's also not the sort of operation McNair runs. You either stay where you are at, or you move DOWN if there's any moving to be done.

I see we're already starting the Keep Hope Alive tour around here. :heart:I think McNair has open the check book with guys like Boselli, David Carr's extension, Antonio Smith, Kris Brown, Orslovski, Reeves and Schaub.

nero THE zero
12-16-2009, 10:29 AM
You're right, I have no inside knowledge but has been said many times by McClain, Justice, and Zierlein - guys who do have inside knowledge.

I'll look to see if I can provide any links/stories. Until then, dont believe me.


Some might be disappointed that Cowher doesnt come here, and many will be disappointed that Kubiak may be back after all(even if they do go 7-9,8-8)

There's a difference between "Cowher won't be coming here" and a blanket statement like "McNair isnt willing to spend the money for a new coach"

nero THE zero
12-16-2009, 10:29 AM
In May of 2008 all 32 owners voted to have an uncapped year. McNair had voice owner dissatisfaction with rookie contracts (getting high dollar with no NFL experience). Various sport talking head had interviewed McNair saying he was a supporter of opting out of CBA leading to an uncapped year.

Guess I missed that. I still don't see how that makes him a "leader" on the issue, though.

badboy
12-16-2009, 10:32 AM
I'm still baffled by how people think spending big free agent dollars is a good thing.

The Jets spent a mint a couple of years ago - they've been around .500. The Redskins go apeshit every offseason in free agency, and they're one of the worst teams in the league. So many people wanted the Texans to go after Albert Haynesworth - and myself and many others KNEW that fat turd wasn't worth even half of what they paid for him. That's not hindsight, either.

Last year the Texans brought in a high-priced free agent - Antonio Smith - and after a slow start, he's been very, very good.Supports my point that McNair will spend money even if it has not bee very effective. We hear that the way to build a team is throguh the draft. If a cap is not involved why not get another high first and go get two impacy players this year?

badboy
12-16-2009, 10:35 AM
Guess I missed that. I still don't see how that makes him a "leader" on the issue, though.Would it improve your day if I retracted "leader"? The issue is about going after more picks without the cost effecting the bottom line as it would in a normal year.

J_R
12-16-2009, 10:36 AM
There's a difference between "Cowher won't be coming here" and a blanket statement like "McNair isnt willing to spend the money for a new coach"

Edited last post - but you think McNair is going to eat ~10 mil for Kubiak and Smith and then go pay Cowher 10 mil to be GM/HC?

nero THE zero
12-16-2009, 10:39 AM
Would it improve your day if I retracted "leader"? The issue is about going after more picks without the cost effecting the bottom line as it would in a normal year.

I actually agree that McNair will/should open up his checkbook should the CBA fail. He's a "have" in the league.

People just tend to take baseless comments on here and run with them as if they're fact (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1325792&postcount=5). So, I wanted to nip that in the bud.

nero THE zero
12-16-2009, 10:40 AM
Edited last post - but you think McNair is going to eat ~10 mil for Kubiak and Smith and then go pay Cowher 10 mil to be GM/HC?

No, I don't think McNair is going to fire Kubiak.

I also don't think that decision has anything to do with money, which was the whole basis for your argument.

HOU-TEX
12-16-2009, 10:44 AM
:rolleyes: Here we go with the McNair's cheap argument again.

I'll respectfully pass this time around. :slapfight:

J_R
12-16-2009, 10:44 AM
No, I don't think McNair is going to fire Kubiak.

I also don't think that decision has anything to do with money, which was the whole basis for your argument.

Yes, I still think it is money. He isnt going to pay 10 mil for a coach, then fire Gary and have to eat whatever remains on his contract(and eat possibly Rick Smith's money too) when he feels comfortable with Gary.

But it is what it is. You have your opinion, I have mine.

Mr. White
12-16-2009, 10:47 AM
There's a difference between "Cowher won't be coming here" and a blanket statement like "McNair isnt willing to spend the money for a new coach"

It's pretty easy to connect the dots, though.

Dot 1: Kubiak has one more year on his contract.
Dot 2: Cowher wants $10 million.

Add to that McNair has no interest in paying a coach that much money. Read through LZ's Twitter page if you want a link. I can't link it because it's blocked at work.

badboy
12-16-2009, 10:50 AM
I actually agree that McNair will/should open up his checkbook should the CBA fail. He's a "have" in the league.

People just tend to take baseless comments on here and run with them as if they're fact (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1325792&postcount=5). So, I wanted to nip that in the bud.But what do you think about trying to get another high first round? Go for say Haden in 10- 13 and Thomas with our 15-17? That would help the defense.

J_R
12-16-2009, 10:53 AM
It's pretty easy to connect the dots, though.

Dot 1: Kubiak has one more year on his contract.
Dot 2: Cowher wants $10 million.

Add to that McNair has no interest in paying a coach that much money. Read through LZ's Twitter page if you want a link. I can't link it because it's blocked at work.

Thank you for explaining better than I did.

Mr. White
12-16-2009, 10:57 AM
Thank you for explaining better than I did.

I posted (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1319454&postcount=491) on it a couple of weeks ago.

It makes perfect sense to me. I don't ever expect to see a quote from McNair saying that he won't pay a coach $10 million, so these kind of accounts are as close as we'll get.

GP
12-16-2009, 10:59 AM
I think McNair has open the check book with guys like Boselli, David Carr's extension, Antonio Smith, Kris Brown, Orslovski, Reeves and Schaub.

That's an amazing list.

(chuckles to self)

GP
12-16-2009, 11:01 AM
:rolleyes: Here we go with the McNair's cheap argument again.

I'll respectfully pass this time around. :slapfight:

Ah yes, I forgot.

"We have the BOLDEST owner in the league!"

"He is dedicated to winning!"

"He brought football back to Houston!"

I think McNair became rich because he found a way to pinch pennies, not for any bold business move that involved sezing a moment.

nero THE zero
12-16-2009, 11:04 AM
But what do you think about trying to get another high first round? Go for say Haden in 10- 13 and Thomas with our 15-17? That would help the defense.

That'd be great. Don't know how we'd do that with money though.

There's speculation that RFA's will be up for sale for teams willing to pay. For exmaple, assuming a "have-not," like Buffalo, has a 4th year OG that we like a lot, we could offer a tender we're confident Buffalo could/would not match, and scoop him up.

So, that's one way to add some nice, young talent to your team if the sides don't come to an agreement.

TexCanada
12-16-2009, 11:21 AM
Hopefully we will go after a veteran DT in FA. I'd rather see us bring in the right guy rather than go spend a bunch of money on 3 or 4 new guys.

badboy
12-16-2009, 11:30 AM
That's an amazing list.

(chuckles to self)You have trouble focusing on the point? I did not say the players turned out to be successful. I am saying he paid. Don't side track the thread.

badboy
12-16-2009, 11:33 AM
Hopefully we will go after a veteran DT in FA. I'd rather see us bring in the right guy rather than go spend a bunch of money on 3 or 4 new guys.I am looking for a DT in FA also. But we have to do better with who we are signing. t least with a FA you have a history; not saying the history will continue in a positive vein.

Jackie Chiles
12-16-2009, 11:40 AM
Additionally, this franchise will NEVER move up in the draft. That's also not the sort of operation McNair runs. You either stay where you are at, or you move DOWN if there's any moving to be done.

Jason Babin says hi.

GP
12-16-2009, 11:43 AM
You have trouble focusing on the point? I did not say the players turned out to be successful. I am saying he paid. Don't side track the thread.

I'll not side-track the thread when you refrain from speculating, wishing, hoping, praying, being wildly optimistic, and act like the next eight years will be any different than the previous 8.

You're just mad because I don't agree with your opinion.

I apologize for not putting a seal of approval on your idea(s). I was thinking that what you're saying might not be rooted in reality.

And I stand by what I have said: Looks like the Keep Hope Alive! tour has begun and will run from now until the first few games of the 2010 season when Kubiak mismanages games and dusts off the "It's on me" excuses.

GP
12-16-2009, 11:47 AM
Jason Babin says hi.

I'm talking about moving to the middle or early part of round 1.

The Babin example is weak because he was a serious over-reach because they were afraid he wouldn't be around in the round he was projected for.

Instead, this thread is talking about mortgaging future years' draft picks for the chance to grab two HUGE first round picks in the middle-to-early part of round 1.

Huge difference.

This team's "extreme" chance-taking has been hilarious. Boselli, who was really put upon us by Jax because they needed to shed his salary, and then we have a stupid move-up for Babin (we traded with the Titans for THAT?!?!? LOL) and then Moulds and Ahman Green who were both past their prime and ready for retirement.

Yeah, we're verrrrry bold in the area of opening up that big, fat wallet of Bob's.

Sheesh....

GP
12-16-2009, 11:48 AM
I think this is one of those "trap" threads where the only way you can survive is if you agree with the originator of the thread.

I'm out of here.

Keep Hope Alive!

Jackie Chiles
12-16-2009, 11:56 AM
I'm talking about moving to the middle or early part of round 1.

The Babin example is weak because he was a serious over-reach because they were afraid he wouldn't be around in the round he was projected for.

Instead, this thread is talking about mortgaging future years' draft picks for the chance to grab two HUGE first round picks in the middle-to-early part of round 1.

Huge difference.

This team's "extreme" chance-taking has been hilarious. Boselli, who was really put upon us by Jax because they needed to shed his salary, and then we have a stupid move-up for Babin (we traded with the Titans for THAT?!?!? LOL) and then Moulds and Ahman Green who were both past their prime and ready for retirement.

Yeah, we're verrrrry bold in the area of opening up that big, fat wallet of Bob's.

Sheesh....

Hey, I'm not a mind reader, just responded to what you wrote.

Texecutioner
12-16-2009, 12:00 PM
McNair was a leader in pushing for an uncapped year next season

If this is true, then that is another big strike against Mcnair for me. Making the NFL uncapped will ruin it, and I've been worried about this for a while. If that happens and the NFL gets anywhere close to how the MLB or the NBA is in that regard, I won't be watching or giving a damn about it in a few years once it crawls down that path. The NFL having a salary cap is what has separated it from the NBA and the MLB and made it fair for all teams including those small market teams that can't and won't ever do jack in baseball like the Royals and a few others. If people want to see Jerry Jones and Snyder competing to see who can spend the most money year like Steinbrenner in baseball, then they can have it, but I'll most likely be wiping my hands of my favorite sport and that will suck, but it won't be the same NFL that has existed over this last decade with so much parity and different teams rising and falling from year to year. That is what keeps fans interested and hope alive. I love how in the NFL a franchise can get turned around rather quickly, and it's pretty fair for the most part for every franchise to compete equally. If they make it uncapped and keep it that way, the NFL as we know it will get ruined.

Thorn
12-16-2009, 12:05 PM
If this is true, then that is another big strike against Mcnair for me. Making the NFL uncapped will ruin it, and I've been worried about this for a while. If that happens and the NFL gets anywhere close to how the MLB or the NBA is in that regard, I won't be watching or giving a damn about it in a few years once it crawls down that path. The NFL having a salary cap is what has separated it from the NBA and the MLB and made it fair for all teams including those small market teams that can't and won't ever do jack in baseball like the Royals and a few others. If people want to see Jerry Jones and Snyder competing to see who can spend the most money year like Steinbrenner in baseball, then they can have it, but I'll most likely be wiping my hands of my favorite sport and that will suck, but it won't be the same NFL that has existed over this last decade with so much parity and different teams rising and falling from year to year. That is what keeps fans interested and hope alive. I love how in the NFL a franchise can get turned around rather quickly, and it's pretty fair for the most part for every franchise to compete equally. If they make it uncapped and keep it that way, the NFL as we know it will get ruined.

I don't think the NFL would stay uncapped if that happens next year. However, if it does, I agree with what you said. It would ruin the NFL.

Texecutioner
12-16-2009, 12:06 PM
I'm talking about moving to the middle or early part of round 1.

The Babin example is weak because he was a serious over-reach because they were afraid he wouldn't be around in the round he was projected for.

Instead, this thread is talking about mortgaging future years' draft picks for the chance to grab two HUGE first round picks in the middle-to-early part of round 1.

Huge difference.

This team's "extreme" chance-taking has been hilarious. Boselli, who was really put upon us by Jax because they needed to shed his salary, and then we have a stupid move-up for Babin (we traded with the Titans for THAT?!?!? LOL) and then Moulds and Ahman Green who were both past their prime and ready for retirement.

Yeah, we're verrrrry bold in the area of opening up that big, fat wallet of Bob's.

Sheesh....

It's amazing to me that people still think that Mcnair is going to go all out and open up the wallet in each off season when he's never done it once in the 7 off seasons that he's had.

Texecutioner
12-16-2009, 12:08 PM
I don't think the NFL would stay uncapped if that happens next year. However, if it does, I agree with what you said. It would ruin the NFL.

I just can't even believe that they would entertain this idea and allow it to be this way for even one season. The NFL has done so well with the model that is currently has. Why in god's name would you tweak that to go down a road that has caused the NBA and the MLB to fail miserably on so many levels of it's competition and run fans away from the sport. Sure the NBA and the MLB are still making money, but bloated salaries and guaranteed contracts have ruined those sports.

infantrycak
12-16-2009, 12:13 PM
It's amazing to me that people still think that Mcnair is going to go all out and open up the wallet in each off season when he's never done it once in the 7 off seasons that he's had.

What's amazing to me is people pissing and moaning about the Texans spending too much money when they don't like a FA pick-up and now acting like McNair never spends money. He spent top dollar on Gary Walker and Todd Wade. Didn't work out but he paid. Jacques Reeves got a big contract. Antoine Smith got a big contract. DD got a big contract. Dunta got franchised.

Not paying $100 mil for the most expensive FA available is not the same thing as not spending.

Texan_Bill
12-16-2009, 12:15 PM
I think McNair became rich because he found a way to pinch pennies, not for any bold business move that involved sezing a moment.

Really??!?! Selling Cogen Technologies for $1.5 billion dollars in cash and stocks to Enron, right before the industry bubble started to collapse wasn't a bold business move??? Please. :rolleyes:

badboy
12-16-2009, 12:16 PM
Hey, I'm not a mind reader, just responded to what you wrote.GP gets caught up in his opinion and attacks those who say "what if". He will make statements saying a owner will not do something despite facts showing McNair did pay for players. He is mad at Kubiac and if McNair keeps the coach GP will then be mad at McNair.

GP
12-16-2009, 12:19 PM
What's amazing to me is people pissing and moaning about the Texans spending too much money when they don't like a FA pick-up and now acting like McNair never spends money. He spent top dollar on Gary Walker and Todd Wade. Didn't work out but he paid. Jacques Reeves got a big contract. Antoine Smith got a big contract. DD got a big contract. Dunta got franchised.

Not paying $100 mil for the most expensive FA available is not the same thing as not spending.

IIRC, they paid DD when he was heading into his final off-season and looking VERY much like he was done. How smart was that? What owner signs off on the GM who wants to do that?

The vast majority of posters here, when talk began about possibly signing Todd Wade, were easily uncomfortable with the thought of spending THAT mcuh for THAT guy. It came across as a huge reach. And it was.

Gary walker might be one of the best signings when lined up against the other signings.

And to me, the only other good wheelin'-and-dealin' situation was dropping Carr and getting Schaub. Though I do wonder what we could have done with those two 2nd rounders. Schaub is an enigma to me, due to having great stats, but also trailing off on the "comeback win" category that he did an OK job of in 2008.

Throw in the Ahman Green LAUGHER of a signing, and I can't help but wonder how much blind luck this franchise is going to have to be blessed with in order to turn that magical corner we all speak of so much.

But hey: Nobody can fire the owner. It's something we just deal with.

nero THE zero
12-16-2009, 12:22 PM
What's amazing to me is people pissing and moaning about the Texans spending too much money when they don't like a FA pick-up and now acting like McNair never spends money. He spent top dollar on Gary Walker and Todd Wade. Didn't work out but he paid. Jacques Reeves got a big contract. Antoine Smith got a big contract. DD got a big contract. Dunta got franchised.

Not paying $100 mil for the most expensive FA available is not the same thing as not spending.

There's a funky line of thought here that; spending big in FA creates success, the Texans have not had success, thereofre the Texans do not spend big in FA.

Despite the fallacy in such logic, the original premise is flawed anyway. I remember four years ago, and as early as last year, when the "build through the draft" paradigm was held to such high esteem. This inability to "get over the hump" has had an odd effect on that.

badboy
12-16-2009, 12:24 PM
If this is true, then that is another big strike against Mcnair for me. Making the NFL uncapped will ruin it, and I've been worried about this for a while. If that happens and the NFL gets anywhere close to how the MLB or the NBA is in that regard, I won't be watching or giving a damn about it in a few years once it crawls down that path. The NFL having a salary cap is what has separated it from the NBA and the MLB and made it fair for all teams including those small market teams that can't and won't ever do jack in baseball like the Royals and a few others. If people want to see Jerry Jones and Snyder competing to see who can spend the most money year like Steinbrenner in baseball, then they can have it, but I'll most likely be wiping my hands of my favorite sport and that will suck, but it won't be the same NFL that has existed over this last decade with so much parity and different teams rising and falling from year to year. That is what keeps fans interested and hope alive. I love how in the NFL a franchise can get turned around rather quickly, and it's pretty fair for the most part for every franchise to compete equally. If they make it uncapped and keep it that way, the NFL as we know it will get ruined.My understanding is the vote to opt out of CBA was to put pressure on players Union to change the rookie salary, reduce the percentage of the profit the players get and to put pressure on owners that complain about being in a small market and still wanting a equal share of the profit pie. Historically, I think McNair has indicated the Buffalo owner as such.

I believe the uncapped year will be the only one and McNair could use his money to go after certain players if the cap was gone. No way do the NFL owners kill the cash cow and eliminate the cap forever. It is simplay an attention grabber. Already the new president of the union has mentioned he is open to movement on the rookie wage, I believe.

DeMarCushPoll
12-16-2009, 12:29 PM
I can't beleive I actually wasted my time reading all these ignorant posts. People commenting on this subject as if you sit down and have dinner with the man every night and have some inside knowledge. Not one of you have any idea what McNair will or will not do with his check book next year or any other year. What a ridiculous thread.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
12-16-2009, 12:29 PM
No team is just going to sell their first round pick for cash.








/End thread

mussop
12-16-2009, 12:30 PM
My understanding is the vote to opt out of CBA was to put pressure on players Union to change the rookie salary, reduce the percentage of the profit the players get and to put pressure on owners that complain about being in a small market and still wanting a equal share of the profit pie. Historically, I think McNair has indicated the Buffalo owner as such.

I believe the uncapped year will be the only one and McNair could use his money to go after certain players if the cap was gone. No way do the NFL owners kill the cash cow and eliminate the cap forever. It is simplay an attention grabber. Already the new president of the union has mentioned he is open to movement on the rookie wage, I believe.

You beat me to it.

badboy
12-16-2009, 12:30 PM
It's amazing to me that people still think that Mcnair is going to go all out and open up the wallet in each off season when he's never done it once in the 7 off seasons that he's had.Each of those 7 off seasons he had a salary cap to work under. Not this year. Also, his first GM left the team snarky with contracts leaving dead money when the player was released. This off season is probably a once in a life time chance to go get who you want and not have the salary whack you later.

badboy
12-16-2009, 12:35 PM
What's amazing to me is people pissing and moaning about the Texans spending too much money when they don't like a FA pick-up and now acting like McNair never spends money. He spent top dollar on Gary Walker and Todd Wade. Didn't work out but he paid. Jacques Reeves got a big contract. Antoine Smith got a big contract. DD got a big contract. Dunta got franchised.

Not paying $100 mil for the most expensive FA available is not the same thing as not spending.My point entirely. Facts do tend to get in some folks way. Cak would you spend the money and picks to move up this one draft? I'm not saying it should be done but for me it was an interesting idea due to lack of cap. We should get some excellent players using our current picks but if Kubes is here next season, he might want another impact player in first round.

Stemp
12-16-2009, 12:37 PM
Nobody can fire the owner. It's something you just deal with suckas.

Signed,

Bud Adams
Jerry Jones
Al Davis
Ralph Wilson

badboy
12-16-2009, 12:42 PM
No team is just going to sell their first round pick for cash.








/End threadThe money I am referring to out of McNair's check book is for the salary of the extra first round that you get by trading daft picks for.

badboy
12-16-2009, 12:47 PM
I can't beleive I actually wasted my time reading all these ignorant posts. People commenting on this subject as if you sit down and have dinner with the man every night and have some inside knowledge. Not one of you have any idea what McNair will or will not do with his check book next year or any other year. What a ridiculous thread.Based on your two posts, I can only assume that you do not realize that most of the posts on this MB are based on opinion and rumors and out right guesses. Seems like a fellow as smart as you would have stopped reading after my ignorant thread rather than reading each post as you say you did. Maybe the ignorant ain't the other posters?

badboy
12-16-2009, 12:48 PM
IIRC, they paid DD when he was heading into his final off-season and looking VERY much like he was done. How smart was that? What owner signs off on the GM who wants to do that?

The vast majority of posters here, when talk began about possibly signing Todd Wade, were easily uncomfortable with the thought of spending THAT mcuh for THAT guy. It came across as a huge reach. And it was.

Gary walker might be one of the best signings when lined up against the other signings.

And to me, the only other good wheelin'-and-dealin' situation was dropping Carr and getting Schaub. Though I do wonder what we could have done with those two 2nd rounders. Schaub is an enigma to me, due to having great stats, but also trailing off on the "comeback win" category that he did an OK job of in 2008.

Throw in the Ahman Green LAUGHER of a signing, and I can't help but wonder how much blind luck this franchise is going to have to be blessed with in order to turn that magical corner we all speak of so much.

But hey: Nobody can fire the owner. It's something we just deal with.GP, I thought you were out of here?:shades:

buddyboy
12-16-2009, 12:53 PM
I'll not side-track the thread when you refrain from speculating, wishing, hoping, praying, being wildly optimistic, and act like the next eight years will be any different than the previous 8.

You're just mad because I don't agree with your opinion.

I apologize for not putting a seal of approval on your idea(s). I was thinking that what you're saying might not be rooted in reality.

And I stand by what I have said: Looks like the Keep Hope Alive! tour has begun and will run from now until the first few games of the 2010 season when Kubiak mismanages games and dusts off the "It's on me" excuses.

Is it really that "wildly optimistic" to think that the next 8 years will be different than the previous 8? I can almost guarantee SOMETHING will be different. Whether it's for the better or for the worst, blanket statements like "everything for the next 8 years will be the same for the Texans" are foolish.

Texecutioner
12-16-2009, 01:28 PM
What's amazing to me is people pissing and moaning about the Texans spending too much money when they don't like a FA pick-up and now acting like McNair never spends money. He spent top dollar on Gary Walker and Todd Wade. Didn't work out but he paid. Jacques Reeves got a big contract. Antoine Smith got a big contract. DD got a big contract. Dunta got franchised.

I don't see one of those examples as a good signing. You could try and argue Smith right now, but I think we over paid for Smith and it was a reach. He's not a difference maker at DE at all. We've had the same poor D line that we've always had this season. The Reeves contract was terrible and I couldn't believe we did that at the time, DD was already pretty banged up, Wade was not a good player at all, and Walker had one good season for us where he made the Pro Bowl so I won't call fault on that one. I wouldn't call any of those contracts examples of Bob spending money though. None of those guys were what were considered difference makers at their positions that were available in the free agent market. We have never been aggressive in making trades either to bring in a big time player. We've simply been a pretty conservative franchise in that regard every off season.

Not paying $100 mil for the most expensive FA available is not the same thing as not spending.

This is the same thing you've thrown out every time this subject comes up. No one said that we needed to spend 100 million on a guy like Haynesworth or any other overrated contract player. It's about being aggressive and filling the holes on your team with proven players though and not simply trying to build through the draft. I hate that philosophy. Great teams do both. The free agents that we've brought in from off season to off season historically have been some really bad signings for the most part and most of them had "buyer beware" written all over them like Green, Brown, Weaver, Reeves, Buchanon, and Bradford (Resigning), and etc.

infantrycak
12-16-2009, 01:42 PM
I don't see one of those examples as a good signing.

I never said they were good signings but they are proof McNair will spend money.


This is the same thing you've thrown out every time this subject comes up. No one said that we needed to spend 100 million on a guy like Haynesworth or any other overrated contract player. It's about being aggressive and filling the holes on your team with proven players though and not simply trying to build through the draft. I hate that philosophy. Great teams do both. The free agents that we've brought in from off season to off season historically have been some really bad signings for the most part and most of them had "buyer beware" written all over them like Green, Brown, Weaver, Reeves, Buchanon, and Bradford (Resigning), and etc.

They have tried. Generally they have failed but that is a different assertion. You just listed two more - Weaver got a big contract and they traded for Buchanon.

badboy
12-16-2009, 01:46 PM
I don't see one of those examples as a good signing. You could try and argue Smith right now, but I think we over paid for Smith and it was a reach. He's not a difference maker at DE at all. We've had the same poor D line that we've always had this season. The Reeves contract was terrible and I couldn't believe we did that at the time, DD was already pretty banged up, Wade was not a good player at all, and Walker had one good season for us where he made the Pro Bowl so I won't call fault on that one. I wouldn't call any of those contracts examples of Bob spending money though. None of those guys were what were considered difference makers at their positions that were available in the free agent market. We have never been aggressive in making trades either to bring in a big time player. We've simply been a pretty conservative franchise in that regard every off season.



This is the same thing you've thrown out every time this subject comes up. No one said that we needed to spend 100 million on a guy like Haynesworth or any other overrated contract player. It's about being aggressive and filling the holes on your team with proven players though and not simply trying to build through the draft. I hate that philosophy. Great teams do both. The free agents that we've brought in from off season to off season historically have been some really bad signings for the most part and most of them had "buyer beware" written all over them like Green, Brown, Weaver, Reeves, Buchanon, and Bradford (Resigning), and etc.When you sign a free agent or select a draft pick, you have no idea how it will work out. The point we are discussing is not how effective were the players but rather did McNair pay the bucks to get them? I could counter the negative decisions you mention with players who were good pick ups. Has nothing to do with that.

ArlingtonTexan
12-16-2009, 01:58 PM
What's amazing to me is people pissing and moaning about the Texans spending too much money when they don't like a FA pick-up and now acting like McNair never spends money. He spent top dollar on Gary Walker and Todd Wade. Didn't work out but he paid. Jacques Reeves got a big contract. Antoine Smith got a big contract. DD got a big contract. Dunta got franchised.

Not paying $100 mil for the most expensive FA available is not the same thing as not spending.

Yeah, pretty people confuse not spending smartly with not spending. Two very different issues. I remember the Texans had one of top 5 paid OL in football one those years when Mittens was on his back more than standing up. What he has not done is either spend the highest contract nor attempted to sign guys with a higher previous profile. It almost seems as if he has an aversion to "name" brand players, although he will pay significant dollars to guys on speculation.

HOU-TEX
12-16-2009, 02:22 PM
I can't beleive I actually wasted my time reading all these ignorant posts. People commenting on this subject as if you sit down and have dinner with the man every night and have some inside knowledge. Not one of you have any idea what McNair will or will not do with his check book next year or any other year. What a ridiculous thread.

Based on your two posts, I can only assume that you do not realize that most of the posts on this MB are based on opinion and rumors and out right guesses. Seems like a fellow as smart as you would have stopped reading after my ignorant thread rather than reading each post as you say you did. Maybe the ignorant ain't the other posters?

I don't think he was attacking the title of the thread. I think it has more to do with the direction the thread went, which was obvious from the start.

I actually agree with his/hers overall point.

ChampionTexan
12-16-2009, 02:32 PM
In May of 2008 all 32 owners voted to have an uncapped year. McNair had voice owner dissatisfaction with rookie contracts (getting high dollar with no NFL experience). Various sport talking head had interviewed McNair saying he was a supporter of opting out of CBA leading to an uncapped year.

They voted for an early termination of the collective bargaining agreement, and with that early termination came the possibility of an uncapped year (and while it's looking likely, the uncapped year is still not a certainty).

There might be an exception or two, but I believe the vast majority who voted for termination didn't do it so they could increase what is already far and away their largest expense. Contrary to the main idea behind this thread, it was done to increase their collective bottom line, not to decrease it.

Vinny
12-16-2009, 03:41 PM
Edited last post - but you think McNair is going to eat ~10 mil for Kubiak and Smith and then go pay Cowher 10 mil to be GM/HC? Kubiak is going into the last year of his contract so he is going to have to pay someone a big money contract next season.

Vinny
12-16-2009, 03:44 PM
Ah yes, I forgot.

"We have the BOLDEST owner in the league!"

"He is dedicated to winning!"

"He brought football back to Houston!"

I think McNair became rich because he found a way to pinch pennies, not for any bold business move that involved sezing a moment.
posting out of ignorance again huh? McNair sold Cogen to Enron before they collapsed. It was the epitome of seizing the moment.

Vinny
12-16-2009, 03:46 PM
good lord, I need to start reading entire threads before I comment. I'm redundant...should have known someone posted that. :truck:

J_R
12-16-2009, 03:47 PM
Kubiak is going into the last year of his contract so he is going to have to pay someone a big money contract next season.

After next season yeah.(If they do indeed bring Kubiak back for the final year). Kubiak will then be off the "books".

Vinny
12-16-2009, 03:49 PM
After next season yeah.(If they do indeed bring Kubiak back for the final year). Kubiak will then be off the "books".who thinks Bob will let Kubiak coach without a contract? He didn't even want David Carr to go into his last year without extending him.

noxiousdog
12-16-2009, 03:56 PM
who thinks Bob will let Kubiak coach without a contract? He didn't even want David Carr to go into his last year without extending him.

I would be shocked if he extended him. I don't think the no credibility with the players argument holds. Assuming he's back, if Kubiak doesn't make the playoffs next year, he's done and no extended contract is changing that. The players, especially ones on the radio as much as ours are, know that.

J_R
12-16-2009, 03:58 PM
who thinks Bob will let Kubiak coach without a contract? He didn't even want David Carr to go into his last year without extending him.

That's true. Owners usually extend coaches going into their last year. But as noxiousdog said, it would be a little surprising to see him extend him. I however, still think Kubiak will be back, though I myself would not like to see him return.

CloakNNNdagger
12-16-2009, 04:00 PM
I'm wondering if the Players' Union is considering decertifying to avoid a "lockout" (as was being considered back in 2007)?

dalemurphy
12-16-2009, 04:11 PM
My point entirely. Facts do tend to get in some folks way. Cak would you spend the money and picks to move up this one draft? I'm not saying it should be done but for me it was an interesting idea due to lack of cap. We should get some excellent players using our current picks but if Kubes is here next season, he might want another impact player in first round.

The problem with the move up is the cost in players... look at last year!

Caldwell, Quin, B McCain in the 3rd, 4th, and 6th... all those guys are making a significant impact as rookies and have a pretty high ceiling moving forward.

by the way, our highest pick since Rick Smith got here was one of our worst: Amobi Okoye at 10.

Grid
12-16-2009, 04:18 PM
I know its the hip thing to do...blaming the owner and claiming he is a miser... but lets try to keep it logical and realistic pretty please. The dude has spent more money than you will ever see on this team.. and has given no indication that he has an issue spending money if it seems like a good investment.

Goldensilence
12-16-2009, 04:21 PM
My point entirely. Facts do tend to get in some folks way. Cak would you spend the money and picks to move up this one draft? I'm not saying it should be done but for me it was an interesting idea due to lack of cap. We should get some excellent players using our current picks but if Kubes is here next season, he might want another impact player in first round.

I think a better point would yes, they have spent money in the off-season chasing FAs. Unfortunately, someone in personnel is doing a horrid job evaluating NFL FAs and how they fit with what the team wants to do (that is even if the team is sure anymore). They don't generally go after blue chip talent like Asante Samuel, Micheal Turner, Brian Dawkins, etc.

Instead we get J. Reeves, Chris Brown, and Gary Busing.

Many fans here saw a bunch of red flags with the signing of Ahman Green. If you want a reliable running game you don't make move on an older RB coming of a recent big injury.

Sure McNair has spent money but for the most part the big "splashes" have been belly flops. Sadly the team seems to hit better on the small to medium contracts where it is less risk adverse. It needs to be the opposite. We need to nail the higher priced FAs who make a big dent on the salary cap and then if we do hit or miss on the small contracts it's not as important. It just becomes icing on the cake if we do.

CloakNNNdagger
12-16-2009, 04:35 PM
I'd have to say that McNair has already more than made his generous investment back. He can certainly find ways to reward fans for their painful loyalty.

Review this FORBES piece on McNair and the Texans financials (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/30/football-values-09_Houston-Texans_302019.html).

dalemurphy
12-16-2009, 05:05 PM
I think a better point would yes, they have spent money in the off-season chasing FAs. Unfortunately, someone in personnel is doing a horrid job evaluating NFL FAs and how they fit with what the team wants to do (that is even if the team is sure anymore). They don't generally go after blue chip talent like Asante Samuel, Micheal Turner, Brian Dawkins, etc.

Instead we get J. Reeves, Chris Brown, and Gary Busing.

Many fans here saw a bunch of red flags with the signing of Ahman Green. If you want a reliable running game you don't make move on an older RB coming of a recent big injury.

Sure McNair has spent money but for the most part the big "splashes" have been belly flops. Sadly the team seems to hit better on the small to medium contracts where it is less risk adverse. It needs to be the opposite. We need to nail the higher priced FAs who make a big dent on the salary cap and then if we do hit or miss on the small contracts it's not as important. It just becomes icing on the cake if we do.


First, Reeves was a good signing and his was a medium contract. Second, Brown and Busing were insignificant signings... neither of whom were guaranteed to even make the roster.

Third, you left off Antonio Smith. Mike Briesel, Shaun Cody, Bernard Pollard, Eugene Wilson, Tim Bulman, Andre Davis, Vonte Leach, Kevin Bentley... just to name a few off the top of my head are some pretty darn good signings. Please try and forgive Rick Smith for not paying them more money. Maybe he'll do better next year.

badboy
12-17-2009, 12:21 PM
The problem with the move up is the cost in players... look at last year!

Caldwell, Quin, B McCain in the 3rd, 4th, and 6th... all those guys are making a significant impact as rookies and have a pretty high ceiling moving forward.

by the way, our highest pick since Rick Smith got here was one of our worst: Amobi Okoye at 10.True but if I can keep my own pick and get a top 10 pick for 3rd, 4th and 6th this year it is a done deal. That is not hapening. You have to compare the offer to the team we have now not last year. i wonder if we could get a 13-14 pick for our 2nd this year and a first and 3rd next?

Double Barrel
12-17-2009, 01:12 PM
I love how in the NFL a franchise can get turned around rather quickly...

They can??? hehe, somebody tell the Texans FO! :shades:

I agree with your overall post, btw. Should the NFL go the way of MLB (which I don't think it will), I would lose interest because of the disparities and unequal playing field between teams.

Really??!?! Selling Cogen Technologies for $1.5 billion dollars in cash and stocks to Enron, right before the industry bubble started to collapse wasn't a bold business move??? Please. :rolleyes:

posting out of ignorance again huh? McNair sold Cogen to Enron before they collapsed. It was the epitome of seizing the moment.

If only McNair was as insightful about the NFL as he appears to be about the energy industry. *sigh*

p.s. No complaints about McNair, just the people he's hired to run his franchise the past eight years.

Texecutioner
12-17-2009, 01:18 PM
They can??? hehe, somebody tell the Texans FO! :shades:

I agree with your overall post, btw. Should the NFL go the way of MLB (which I don't think it will), I would lose interest because of the disparities and unequal playing field between teams.



Well I think that not having a salary cap can easily turn it into a Yankees/Red Sox type of situation where you've got the same teams in it every single season because of the players that they buy in every off season.

The thing that kills the sport even more though is guaranteed contracts which is the biggest thing that's keeping the NFL on top in my opinion. Guaranteed contracts take away all of the incentive to all of the players once they get paid enough. I think guaranteed contracts have killed the NBA with the addition to all of the dirty stuff that Stern has been involved in. Players simply don't care anymore after they're being paid enough money. Look at how many baseball players do the same thing as well and become terrible hitters after getting that huge deal or those guys that end up getting washed up that stay on a team's roster forever, simply because they can't cut them.

Double Barrel
12-17-2009, 01:28 PM
Well I think that not having a salary cap can easily turn it into a Yankees/Red Sox type of situation where you've got the same teams in it every single season because of the players that they buy in every off season.

The thing that kills the sport even more though is guaranteed contracts which is the biggest thing that's keeping the NFL on top in my opinion. Guaranteed contracts take away all of the incentive to all of the players once they get paid enough. I think guaranteed contracts have killed the NBA with the addition to all of the dirty stuff that Stern has been involved in. Players simply don't care anymore after they're being paid enough money. Look at how many baseball players do the same thing as well and become terrible hitters after getting that huge deal or those guys that end up getting washed up that stay on a team's roster forever, simply because they can't cut them.

yep. The NFL has been a model league, and with the exception of the rookie contracts, I think they have done it the right way. But I sure hope that both the owners and players do not kill the golden goose. If they choose to strike/lockout or any of that nonsense, they might just kill my passion for the spectator sport. It's hard to relate to rich owners/entertainers who enjoy the benefit of taxpayer funded facilities when you're just a working man living hand to mouth.

Goldensilence
12-17-2009, 02:26 PM
First, Reeves was a good signing and his was a medium contract. Second, Brown and Busing were insignificant signings... neither of whom were guaranteed to even make the roster.

Third, you left off Antonio Smith. Mike Briesel, Shaun Cody, Bernard Pollard, Eugene Wilson, Tim Bulman, Andre Davis, Vonte Leach, Kevin Bentley... just to name a few off the top of my head are some pretty darn good signings. Please try and forgive Rick Smith for not paying them more money. Maybe he'll do better next year.


Dale are you just obtuse? I'm not talking about the salary cap. I'm talking about talent evaluation on the field.

Reeves has been an ok signing. He's been our best CB since being signed...but that isn't saying a whole lot if we're honest with ourselves.

Brown hasn't been a big cap hit, but he started off his contract injured...again. Who was surprised? Problem is Brown has cost us games this year.

You're right Busing wasn't a big cap hit either, but it's sad that he made the roster because what they brought in for safety was even worse. He's cost us games in his "coverage".

I have to say Antonio Smith so far has been a good singing for the most part. Unfortunately Williams has struggled this year across from him.

My problem with Brisiel is I'm not sure he'd be a starter anywhere else. I guess you could call him an UDFA gem from Smith if you really want to, but that doesn't mean a whole lot to me. He's weak at the LOS and should be a backup.

Yeah Shuan Cody's been a real game changer at DT this year. I would've preffered to go after Grady Jackson. Yeah older, but he's the space eating DT that this team could benefit from.

I don't know how much I can credit Smith with Pollard considering 1.) KC was dumb enough to cut their leading tackler from last year 2.) Kubiak figured he could squeak through the year with Barber and Busing. Sure Pollard has done great while he's been here and I'm glad we signed him. It's just pathetic that it seems EVERY YEAR we have to make a mid season piuckup because they didn't address it in the off-season.

I think Eugene Wilson has done good enough to being up competent safety play. Decent signing but, for the love of beer can we actaully adress this spot with a high draft pick?

I guess for What Tim Bulman does it's a good signing. If it makes you feel better I think we could've gotten the same production out of him or Jamison that we've gotten from 2nd round fan boy super star Conor Barwin.

Davis has given us one good season then when he hit a big contract he's disapeared.

I can't complain one bit about Leach, except it would be awesome if he could transfer some of that nastiness to the OL.

Bentley has done well. I can't really complain about him, he's done well as a starter when needed and provides good depth at LB.


Problem is Dale some of these signings have been to cover bad off-season talent evaluation or roster evaluation after preseason.

BigBull17
12-17-2009, 02:40 PM
Dale are you just obtuse? I'm not talking about the salary cap. I'm talking about talent evaluation on the field.

Reeves has been an ok signing. He's been our best CB since being signed...but that isn't saying a whole lot if we're honest with ourselves.

Brown hasn't been a big cap hit, but he started off his contract injured...again. Who was surprised? Problem is Brown has cost us games this year.

You're right Busing wasn't a big cap hit either, but it's sad that he made the roster because what they brought in for safety was even worse. He's cost us games in his "coverage".

I have to say Antonio Smith so far has been a good singing for the most part. Unfortunately Williams has struggled this year across from him.

My problem with Brisiel is I'm not sure he'd be a starter anywhere else. I guess you could call him an UDFA gem from Smith if you really want to, but that doesn't mean a whole lot to me. He's weak at the LOS and should be a backup.

Yeah Shuan Cody's been a real game changer at DT this year. I would've preffered to go after Grady Jackson. Yeah older, but he's the space eating DT that this team could benefit from.

I don't know how much I can credit Smith with Pollard considering 1.) KC was dumb enough to cut their leading tackler from last year 2.) Kubiak figured he could squeak through the year with Barber and Busing. Sure Pollard has done great while he's been here and I'm glad we signed him. It's just pathetic that it seems EVERY YEAR we have to make a mid season piuckup because they didn't address it in the off-season.

I think Eugene Wilson has done good enough to being up competent safety play. Decent signing but, for the love of beer can we actaully adress this spot with a high draft pick?

I guess for What Tim Bulman does it's a good signing. If it makes you feel better I think we could've gotten the same production out of him or Jamison that we've gotten from 2nd round fan boy super star Conor Barwin.

Davis has given us one good season then when he hit a big contract he's disapeared.

I can't complain one bit about Leach, except it would be awesome if he could transfer some of that nastiness to the OL.

Bentley has done well. I can't really complain about him, he's done well as a starter when needed and provides good depth at LB.


Problem is Dale some of these signings have been to cover bad off-season talent evaluation or roster evaluation after preseason.

CB is way more pressing of a need, if you ask me. I would look Saftey in the 2-4 range of the draft, since the guy could learn from Wilson his rookie year.

badboy
12-17-2009, 03:29 PM
I think a better point would yes, they have spent money in the off-season chasing FAs. Unfortunately, someone in personnel is doing a horrid job evaluating NFL FAs and how they fit with what the team wants to do (that is even if the team is sure anymore). They don't generally go after blue chip talent like Asante Samuel, Micheal Turner, Brian Dawkins, etc.

Instead we get J. Reeves, Chris Brown, and Gary Busing.

Many fans here saw a bunch of red flags with the signing of Ahman Green. If you want a reliable running game you don't make move on an older RB coming of a recent big injury.

Sure McNair has spent money but for the most part the big "splashes" have been belly flops. Sadly the team seems to hit better on the small to medium contracts where it is less risk adverse. It needs to be the opposite. We need to nail the higher priced FAs who make a big dent on the salary cap and then if we do hit or miss on the small contracts it's not as important. It just becomes icing on the cake if we do.I think if it is an uncapped year, the restrictions on who will be a FA and that teams can only sign one if they lose one (not too clear on this yet) will greatly shrink the pool. That is another reason I am asking if picking up a second first round pick would be successful. I have us ending up at #15. I would like another in that range. say 11-14.

dalemurphy
12-17-2009, 04:50 PM
Dale are you just obtuse? I'm not talking about the salary cap. I'm talking about talent evaluation on the field.
.

I weigh about 240 lbs.... so, I guess I'm morbidly obtuse.:devilpig:

Joking aside, my point with the list of FAs is that Rick Smith has been very skillful at finding affordable and young talent. That is a special skill, particularly in the salary cap era. My point about the Chris Brown signing as well as the Busing signing is that the nature of those contracts don't prevent another/better player from assuming the roster spot. In my opinion, the blame for Chris Brown and Busing lies on the shoulders of Gary Kubiak. That being said, I would love to get my hands on the transcript to the off-season meeting where our safety situation was discussed. Who in the h*ll determined that Ferguson, D.Barber, Busing, EWilson, BHarrison would be an adequate group of safeties to bring to camp? Because that person F'ed up big time and a lot of us knew it then!

HJam72
12-17-2009, 05:26 PM
I weigh about 240 lbs.... so, I guess I'm morbidly obtuse.:devilpig:

Joking aside, my point with the list of FAs is that Rick Smith has been very skillful at finding affordable and young talent. That is a special skill, particularly in the salary cap era. My point about the Chris Brown signing as well as the Busing signing is that the nature of those contracts don't prevent another/better player from assuming the roster spot. In my opinion, the blame for Chris Brown and Busing lies on the shoulders of Gary Kubiak. That being said, I would love to get my hands on the transcript to the off-season meeting where our safety situation was discussed. Who in the h*ll determined that Ferguson, D.Barber, Busing, EWilson, BHarrison would be an adequate group of safeties to bring to camp? Because that person F'ed up big time and a lot of us knew it then!

I heard it was Peyton Manning.

Goldensilence
12-17-2009, 08:14 PM
I weigh about 240 lbs.... so, I guess I'm morbidly obtuse.:devilpig:

Joking aside, my point with the list of FAs is that Rick Smith has been very skillful at finding affordable and young talent. That is a special skill, particularly in the salary cap era. My point about the Chris Brown signing as well as the Busing signing is that the nature of those contracts don't prevent another/better player from assuming the roster spot. In my opinion, the blame for Chris Brown and Busing lies on the shoulders of Gary Kubiak. That being said, I would love to get my hands on the transcript to the off-season meeting where our safety situation was discussed. Who in the h*ll determined that Ferguson, D.Barber, Busing, EWilson, BHarrison would be an adequate group of safeties to bring to camp? Because that person F'ed up big time and a lot of us knew it then!

I agree that Smit has a done a fair job with lesser FA and hit on bigger FA this year in Antonio Smith. I genuinely have a hard time evaluating how good of job Rick does because at the same time Gary Kubiak is very involved in how the roster gets composed.

I get the impression that the idea is a bit opposite from the Casserly approach to drafting and FAs. It's ok to take risks on high draft picks because we can make up for it in the backend of the draft and value priced free agents.

The slogan might read Houston Texans: Where UDFA and low roudn draft picks can shine!

You can compose a roster that way but it sure makes it difficult to compete for a championship, especially when you have sub par coaching.