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Maddict5
12-12-2009, 08:13 PM
i just want to simply see what kind of support he has at the moment. also apologies if this has been done already. havent been on here since last sunday (thankfully by the looks of it) :) and haven't seen it if its been done

TexanBacker93
12-12-2009, 08:18 PM
I guess IF somehow all the cards fall into place, the Texans win their last 4, and the other wild card contenders lose and the Texans sneak into the playoffs I would support him coming back. I don't think it will happen, though, and while the team has improved, I don't feel that they can get the job done in crunch time.

mussop
12-12-2009, 08:24 PM
You should make the pole public so we can see who votes for who. I voted no.

thunderkyss
12-12-2009, 08:26 PM
I like the improvement I'm seeing on both sides of the ball. I think McNair is right, & we're a "player mindset" away from years of success.

mariowillshine15
12-12-2009, 08:28 PM
I like the improvement I'm seeing on both sides of the ball. I think McNair is right, & we're a "player mindset" away from years of success.

Were a "good coach" away from success.

mussop
12-12-2009, 08:33 PM
I like the improvement I'm seeing on both sides of the ball. I think McNair is right, & we're a "player mindset" away from years of success.


Be sure to leave some cookies out for Santa this Christmas. You know he appreciates em.:spin:

Maddict5
12-12-2009, 08:38 PM
You should make the pole public so we can see who votes for who. I voted no.

it is public... and i even considered letting people have multiple choices (especially for dexman);).. i dont see what anybody should be afraid of if its what they believe. i think he should def stay but can see why some would be against that

Goatcheese
12-12-2009, 08:49 PM
Since he's going to be here anyway, I'll say give him another year. That way I won't be disappointed when it happens.

houstonspartan
12-12-2009, 08:56 PM
Since he's going to be here anyway, I'll say give him another year. That way I won't be disappointed when it happens.

Thing is, you're basically wasting another year.

GP
12-12-2009, 09:29 PM
I like the improvement I'm seeing on both sides of the ball. I think McNair is right, & we're a "player mindset" away from years of success.

If it was impossible to overcome David Carr, who was a single player on the entire team, then how can this team overcome the head coach who is over the WHOLE team and has the same problem David had (hitting a ceiling, and going no further)?

Kubiak should not get another year.

The list is long. He can't even watch critical points of the game. Weak.

mussop
12-12-2009, 10:32 PM
Since he's going to be here anyway, I'll say give him another year. That way I won't be disappointed when it happens.

Hell he cant even watch important plays hows he going to handle that kind of presure next year? If we get off to a bad start he might go blind from stress.

Hervoyel
12-12-2009, 10:41 PM
I totally understand he's not going anywhere. I still voted to fire him now. That way next year I'll be well entrenched in the "I TOLD YOU SO!" crowd. Kubiak lost me this year.

thunderkyss
12-12-2009, 10:51 PM
If it was impossible to overcome David Carr, who was a single player on the entire team, then how can this team overcome the head coach who is over the WHOLE team and has the same problem David had (hitting a ceiling, and going no further)?

Kubiak should not get another year.

The list is long. He can't even watch critical points of the game. Weak.

David's problem was not "hitting a ceiling" David was snake bitten. If he would have made an effort to throw the ball down field when it was there, he would still be here. 3rd & 24, he was hitting the dump off even though he had options down the field. That's why he isn't here.

This team continues to improve every week, on the fundamentals. Look at Texans Chick post, where Football Outsiders re-assesses the team after 3/4ths of the season has gone by.

They are playing good sound football. If they keep it up, it will translate to wins.

If they continue to make the improvements that FO says they are making, we will win.

Lucky
12-12-2009, 10:57 PM
I think this poll is incomplete. Rather than just "Should Kubiak get one more year?", I think a 3rd option of "Extend Kubiak's contract" should have been included. I think it is completely unfair to Kubiak, the players, and the organization for Gary to walk the plank next season. Either he goes into the 2010 season with the complete confidence of the organization, or hire someone who will receive that confidence. What tiny speck of confidence I had in Kubiak's coaching ability was zapped in this latest 4 game nose dive.

Lucky
12-12-2009, 11:10 PM
This team continues to improve every week, on the fundamentals.
The Texans averaged 5.4 penalties/game over the 1st half of the season. The penalties ballooned to 9 per game in this 4 game skid.

If they hadn't been improving on the fundamentals every week, who knows just how high the penalty total would be?

DexmanC
12-12-2009, 11:52 PM
I held out hope for Kubes as long as I could, but I always make sure I can
back up what I believe. Kubiak has ripped the foundation from my wishes
to keep him here. So, it is what it is.

powerfuldragon
12-13-2009, 12:09 AM
not the best reason to keep him, but i don't want to go through another three year rebuilding process.

mussop
12-13-2009, 12:15 AM
not the best reason to keep him, but i don't want to go through another three year rebuilding process.

It will be 2 years of rebuilding if he comes out stinking it up and gets off to a slow start next year. :roast:

gg no re
12-13-2009, 12:25 AM
He got me a pair of 99 spd/98 acc WRs plus a 99/90 CB in one draft in Madden 05 when I hired him.

I'm all for Kubes.

For now.

GP
12-13-2009, 12:43 AM
David's problem was not "hitting a ceiling" David was snake bitten. If he would have made an effort to throw the ball down field when it was there, he would still be here. 3rd & 24, he was hitting the dump off even though he had options down the field. That's why he isn't here.

This team continues to improve every week, on the fundamentals. Look at Texans Chick post, where Football Outsiders re-assesses the team after 3/4ths of the season has gone by.

They are playing good sound football. If they keep it up, it will translate to wins.

If they continue to make the improvements that FO says they are making, we will win.

David Carr was not snake-bitten.

He was (and still is) a guy who can't make his own luck. If he were to play a very bad defense, he's obviously going to survive. But he cannot read a defense, hence the dump-off passes that he just eventually convinced himself was "the only thing there for him."

It IS the perfect example of a guy who was never going to break out from the other NFL QBs and become one of the top tier guys.

As to the last sentence of your post: I firmly believe that even in the pro league of football, a collection of players is only as good as the support team around them (the coaches). Coaches cannot play the game for them, and must therefore be the eyes and ears behind the scenes--Scouting, doing film study until their eyes bleed, and then developing a SOUND game-plan for each and every opponent each and every week.

In college, you can dominate other teams just by having won the recruiting war. By having a few more studs than your opponent. At that level, the talent can beat anybody anywhere. In the NFL, the talent pool is fairly equal. You have a standout QB or WR or RB scattered here and there, but the majority of games are won by the teams who out-coach the opponent.

Frank Bush, in just his first year as our d-coord, is out-coaching Gary Kubiak's offense when it comes down to gameday strategy AND the implementation of the strategy.

I never dreamed the defense would garner my praise, and the offense would fail me so badly. But it is what it is.

David Carr hit his ceiling once defenses knew to throw exotic blitzes and stack 10 guys in the box as if they were blitzing all 10 of them and running only one safety back to cover our 4 receivers. Result: Drop back to a zone and either pick off the pass as David stumbled over himself in the face of a phantom blitz, or watch David run out of bounds and eat a needless sack.

Kubiak is also hitting that ceiling, TK.

You can see it. You don't want to see it, but it's there.

GP
12-13-2009, 12:48 AM
BTW, as of right now...29 say "he should be gone" and only 8 say "retain him."

That's not just one or two fans who have an axe to grind with Gurry Kubiak.

It's a vast majority.

:fwiw:

Hervoyel
12-13-2009, 11:40 AM
Guys how long is a typical NFL career? I don't know the exact number of years it is and I'm sure that varies per position but Domanick Davis was here 4 years and only played 3 of them. Charles Spencer played a handful of games. These guys careers are brief to say the least. Any of them could be done in the blink of an eye.

At the same time this team makes decisions at a glacial pace. They take 5 years to decide that David Carr is as bad as everyone in human existence can see he is. Meanwhile the years go by and the players around him grow older. Andre Johnson turns 30 after next season. His career could be over in a single play. While we wait for all the stars (well behaved, god fearing respectful stars) to align the few we really have will grow old, go elsewhere, or go down.

We are too slow. Keeping Kubiak another year will be just another example of that.

Goatcheese
12-13-2009, 03:17 PM
I'm back on the fence.

http://triton85.com/Portals/2/indecision.jpg

Thorn
12-13-2009, 03:32 PM
I'd like to see a poll not of whether or not we want him back, but on if we think McNair will keep him. If the Texans do their usual thing and have a good December, I'd lay money on Kubiak being back next year.

jaayteetx
12-13-2009, 03:34 PM
Does anybody really think that if the Texans finish with a franchise best 9-7 record, Kubiak won't be our head coach next year? Really?

HJam72
12-13-2009, 03:35 PM
I'd like to see a poll not of whether or not we want him back, but on if we think McNair will keep him. If the Texans do their usual thing and have a good December, I'd lay money on Kubiak being back next year.

Me too.

I will say that Kubiak has the potential to be one SERIOUSLY good HC. I mean big time; but, it only shows when he knows the playoffs are out of reach. He needs to realize that it is HE who makes a fool of himself, because HE is soooooooo smart. :shades:

Maddict5
12-13-2009, 03:41 PM
I'd like to see a poll not of whether or not we want him back, but on if we think McNair will keep him. If the Texans do their usual thing and have a good December, I'd lay money on Kubiak being back next year.

why? even the majority of the guys that want kubiak gone will admit if we have a good december, its pretty likely mcnair keeps him. doesnt mean they agree with it though

Thorn
12-13-2009, 03:43 PM
why? even the majority of the guys that want kubiak gone will admit if we have a good december, its pretty likely mcnair keeps him. doesnt mean they agree with it though

Just curious, is all. I'm in the wanting a new HC but don't think we'll get one camp.

TexCanada
12-13-2009, 03:46 PM
Just curious, is all. I'm in the wanting a new HC but don't think we'll get one camp.

I'm in the same camp, but only if we are getting a better HC. I don't want to see change just for the sake of change.

Big Lou
12-13-2009, 03:47 PM
FIRE RICHARD SMITH!!!!!!!


Oh sorry I'm behind on posting, is it 2009 already?????????

gary
12-13-2009, 03:48 PM
I just keep thinking about the four or five games they had a chane to win and blew it that is what drives me away.

Wolf
12-13-2009, 03:50 PM
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63460&highlight=prediction


results of the preseason poll is why most want him gone

below standard

Wolf
12-13-2009, 03:51 PM
I just keep thinking about the four or five games they had a chane to win and blew it that is what drives me away.

very true, that is what is frustrating

gary
12-13-2009, 03:59 PM
very true, that is what is frustratingIMO, they have between 9 and 11 wins and right in the thick of things.

Trail.Blazr
12-14-2009, 03:53 PM
More games have been lost to his decisions than any other reason. Let him go.

TexansBlood
12-14-2009, 04:17 PM
Let him walk. Now he wants to make speeches, a little to late buddy.

Buffi2
12-14-2009, 04:22 PM
Keep him because the players want him to stay.

I don't know about football teams, but I know schools which is the same principle (pun intended). I know that when a beloved principal is changed and it isn't the principal's idea, the teachers are disgruntled to say the least. The younger the staff, the more rebellious the attitude against the new leadership.

If Mario and his "Life Problems" are an indication of the youthful mentality of this team - and they are, after all, quite young with problems of the young - then changing coaches at this point could and probably would be seriously counterproductive.

Right now we have a bunch of players who aren't playing to their capabilities for whatever reasons - coaching or their minds being elsewhere or all of the above and then some - but at least they like their coach. Add a new set of coaches into an already not so good situation and you have disaster.

While I'm not so sure Kubiak can get these "kids" over the hump of average, I for sure know that if they don't want a new coach, they ain't getting over any hump.

spurstexanstros
12-14-2009, 05:46 PM
Were a "good coach" away from success.

I think we are a Kicker and a horrible PI call against walter from being a playoff team.

Drew_Smoke
12-14-2009, 05:57 PM
Sorry I did not see this one. Thats why you mods get paid the big bucks.

I just wanted to gauge the feeling after the SEA game. Its funny that when I put up the poll a week ago it 65% - 35% in favor of dumping Kubes.

Then I see this one at almost 45 - 55.

The one from after the last game was 65% - 35% to keep him.

Sal Rosenberg
12-14-2009, 06:05 PM
Keep him.PERIOD.:texflag:

HoustonFrog
12-14-2009, 06:15 PM
If Kubes got fired would anyone else rush in to grab the guy? No. He had his 4 years.

ArlingtonTexan
12-14-2009, 06:20 PM
If Kubes got fired would anyone else rush in to grab the guy? No. He had his 4 years.

I doubt that he would get a job immediately, but he would join the list of guys who go coordinate for a few years, rehab the image and gets another shot down the road.

Thorn
12-14-2009, 06:40 PM
I doubt that he would get a job immediately, but he would join the list of guys who go coordinate for a few years, rehab the image and gets another shot down the road.

Kubiak would have no problem getting an OC job, he'd get offers for that. HC, don't know about that, but he wouldn't be unemployed for very long.

DerekLee1
12-14-2009, 07:03 PM
More games have been lost to his decisions than any other reason. Let him go.

I'd say more games have been lost to boneheaded moves by the players than by the decision-making. AJ, Schaub, Cushing, and Ryans have all said as much.

Mr. White
12-14-2009, 07:06 PM
I'd say more games have been lost to boneheaded moves by the players than by the decision-making. AJ, Schaub, Cushing, and Ryans have all said as much.

Then it must be true.... who really thinks that they'd throw their coach under the bus?

TEXANRED
12-14-2009, 07:12 PM
Guys how long is a typical NFL career? I don't know the exact number of years it is and I'm sure that varies per position but Domanick Davis was here 4 years and only played 3 of them. Charles Spencer played a handful of games. These guys careers are brief to say the least. Any of them could be done in the blink of an eye.

At the same time this team makes decisions at a glacial pace. They take 5 years to decide that David Carr is as bad as everyone in human existence can see he is. Meanwhile the years go by and the players around him grow older. Andre Johnson turns 30 after next season. His career could be over in a single play. While we wait for all the stars (well behaved, god fearing respectful stars) to align the few we really have will grow old, go elsewhere, or go down.

We are too slow. Keeping Kubiak another year will be just another example of that.

IIRC he got through the first quarter before Dayne killed his career.

HoustonFrog
12-14-2009, 07:14 PM
I doubt that he would get a job immediately, but he would join the list of guys who go coordinate for a few years, rehab the image and gets another shot down the road.

OC...yeah!I was talking HC. Definitely OC. But some guys don't get another chance...too many to mention

wagonhed
12-14-2009, 09:14 PM
The vote is pretty much tied...... are you freaking kidding me? :headhurts:

DexmanC
12-14-2009, 11:06 PM
The vote is pretty much tied...... are you freaking kidding me? :headhurts:

That Battle Red Kool-Aid is STRONG!!

http://i50.tinypic.com/vhdb0j.jpg

Pantherstang84
12-15-2009, 08:28 AM
I haven't voted because I'm back on the fence.

The win this past Sunday showed me Kubiak has not lost the team. He challenged them and they responded. Now the argument can be made it is too little too late.

However, after a day and a half of thinking the situation over I keep waffling for these reasons:

1. Offense: This side of the has been absolutely devastated by injuries. Slaton, Pitts, Briesel, Daniels, Anthony. Despite all of that, the team is still competitive. Yes they are not getting 8-9 yards a carry on the ground. However, it has been shown that with a good balance, the running game is good enough to keep defenses honest.

2. Defense: Nuff said. Much improved even from the first 3 weeks of the season.

3. Special teams: What perfect timing for your clutch kicker to get the yips. WTG KB!

Now the knock on him has been some questionable game management skills. I think he can fix a big factor in this by firing his entire instant replay staff. Those guys are the most incompetent idiots I have seen. Who here was not yelling, "Run a $#%$! play!" after the Moats fumble in Indy?
Kubiak was all the way across the field and could not see it. It is the replay guys who should have been yelling into the headset.

Still I think he could have done a better job in certain situations. However, every coach makes stupid decisions at times *cough* Bellichick 4th and 2 *cough*.

What this team lacks is maturity and seasoning in critical game situations. The players keep spazzing out when the game is on the line? As a coach how do you fix that? Have the players learned any lessons this year?

The bottom line is this Kubiak and Smith have done a great job of building this roster for the future. This team is teetering on the edge of greatness.

If Kubiak is going to succeed as a head coach, I want it to be here.

Can Kubiak push them over the edge? I really don't know and that is my dilemma.

Mr. White
12-15-2009, 08:35 AM
Just goes to show that most fans are fickle over the course of 17 games.

Fan support increases after the wins and decreases after the losses.

Pantherstang84
12-15-2009, 08:45 AM
Just goes to show that most fans are fickle over the course of 17 games.

Fan support increases after the wins and decreases after the losses.

Yeah how dare people really think things over for themselves.:rolleyes:

Yes the win over Seattle shows Kubiak has not lost the locker room. That right there is huge. The players have not packed it in, unlike Seattle those guys were ready to get on the plane after the 1st quarter.

I really thought he had lost the team after last week.

Thorn
12-15-2009, 08:50 AM
There are just to many "Ifs" and conditions I'd put on replacing Kubiak right now for me to vote.

The problem is I can see both the good and bad side to replacing him after the season. Most especially if they get it wrong again. I'd rather have Kubiak come back next year than a mistake be made in hiring the wrong person just because we want to pull the trigger on this.

JB
12-15-2009, 08:57 AM
There are just to many "Ifs" and conditions I'd put on replacing Kubiak right now for me to vote.

The problem is I can see both the good and bad side to replacing him after the season. Most especially if they get it wrong again. I'd rather have Kubiak come back next year than a mistake be made in hiring the wrong person just because we want to pull the trigger on this.

I agree

V Man
12-15-2009, 09:07 AM
I voted "No"

but heard a reporter on ESPN say that McNair likes him so chances are Kubes will be back next year. So time to be positive and list some things to look forward to:

1. Player Loyalty (don't care if the Kicker missed back to back Game winning FGs, he is my buddy)
2. Some good halves of football (one a game/only one a game)
3. A team that finishs the season strong (once we are official out of the playoff picture)

Man I am so excited I have goose-bumps............not!

HoustonFrog
12-15-2009, 09:20 AM
I voted "No"

but heard a reporter on ESPN say that McNair likes him so chances are Kubes will be back next year. So time to be positive and list some things to look forward to:

1. Player Loyalty (don't care if the Kicker missed back to back Game winning FGs, he is my buddy)
2. Some good halves of football (one a game/only one a game)
3. A team that finishs the season strong (once we are official out of the playoff picture)

Man I am so excited I have goose-bumps............not!

What a great reason by McNair to keep him.

BigBull17
12-15-2009, 09:58 AM
To many times have I seen the same mistakes. In a game we should have won 49-0, we let the Hawks hang around for to long. If they could have got any kind of momentum, they would have been right back in that game. We have a stupid fasination with the run when it does'nt work, and we abandon it when it's starting to get on track. He thinks he's the smartest guy in the NFL, and outthinks himself and his team. Same clock managment issues, promoting his buddies without even INTERVIEWING another person, sticking with players who obviously aren't getting the job done instead of trying a person off the bench, P.S( JJ, Foster, ect...). Tired of watching a 10 win team struggle to be .500. Also, YOU HAVE TO WIN MORE THAN 3 GAMES IN YOUR OWN DIVISION!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You cant be the AFC South's whipping boy.

DexmanC
12-15-2009, 10:20 AM
I haven't voted because I'm back on the fence.

The win this past Sunday showed me Kubiak has not lost the team. He challenged them and they responded. Now the argument can be made it is too little too late.

However, after a day and a half of thinking the situation over I keep waffling for these reasons:

1. Offense: This side of the has been absolutely devastated by injuries. Slaton, Pitts, Briesel, Daniels, Anthony. Despite all of that, the team is still competitive. Yes they are not getting 8-9 yards a carry on the ground. However, it has been shown that with a good balance, the running game is good enough to keep defenses honest.
(Out of all those injuries, you've named all of ONE probowler. This
team achieved 8-8 with much less talent. OD's a nice player, but hes
no Andre Johnson. They didn't even TRY to use Dreesen until the
Seahawks game. No Arian Foster 'till the Seahawks game. Refusing
to put Antoine Caldwell in until the season was over. Naming Chris
Brown as his #1 Option at Halfback. Not allowing Schaub to audible
until the Seahawks game, etc...Missing a playoff berth THIS year
is unacceptable.)

2. Defense: Nuff said. Much improved even from the first 3 weeks of the season.
(They still can't make a stop when it matters. Stats are overrated.)

3. Special teams: What perfect timing for your clutch kicker to get the yips. WTG KB!
(The offense and defense blew big opportunities throughout the games.
This team's troubles don't fall on the kicker.)

Now the knock on him has been some questionable game management skills. I think he can fix a big factor in this by firing his entire instant replay staff.
(Again. Misplacing blame. You lose a call, you make the next play.)

Those guys are the most incompetent idiots I have seen. Who here was not yelling, "Run a $#%$! play!" after the Moats fumble in Indy?

(Again. They blew many more opportunities that game than the refs could
account for. Every team ahead of them in the playoff race simply makes
more plays than the Texans.)

Kubiak was all the way across the field and could not see it.
(Why is he on the other side of the field? Most head coaches follow the
ball all the way to the endzone. I've seen every other successful coach
running with the ball, EXCEPT Kubiak. Especially in a big game like Indy was.)

It is the replay guys who should have been yelling into the headset.
(The replays didn't cost them the games. They only would have bailed
them out from screwing up somewhere else.)

Still I think he could have done a better job in certain situations. However, every coach makes stupid decisions at times *cough* Bellichick 4th and 2 *cough*. (Every coach you've tried to match Kubiak up with has achieved
more than 8 wins in LESS than four years. Compare him to someone on his
own level.)

What this team lacks is maturity and seasoning in critical game situations. The players keep spazzing out when the game is on the line? As a coach how do you fix that? Have the players learned any lessons this year?

(The Colts have lost more than half of their defensive starters on defense,
yet found a way to have the #1 scoring defense in the league. They still
make plays at nutcutting time. Most of their biggest playmakers are rookies.
Good coaching, anyone?)

The bottom line is this Kubiak and Smith have done a great job of building this roster for the future.
(Good on them.)T
his team is teetering on the edge of greatness.

If Kubiak is going to succeed as a head coach, I want it to be here.

Can Kubiak push them over the edge? I really don't know and that is my dilemma.

My comments in bold. It's no dilemma for me. If they played in any other
division than the AFC South, they'd be a perennial playoff team. However,
the flaw in their plan is that they've decided to IGNORE THEIR OWN DIVISION.
Every game that mattered this year, which is the first year they've HAD
any meaningful games, they've LOST. You can't go 7-17 in your own division,
for FOUR YEARS, and expect to keep your job.

Thanks for building the roster, but continuity only matters when you're
WINNING!

badboy
12-15-2009, 10:57 AM
I haven't voted because I'm back on the fence.

The win this past Sunday showed me Kubiak has not lost the team. He challenged them and they responded. Now the argument can be made it is too little too late.

However, after a day and a half of thinking the situation over I keep waffling for these reasons:

1. Offense: This side of the has been absolutely devastated by injuries. Slaton, Pitts, Briesel, Daniels, Anthony. Despite all of that, the team is still competitive. Yes they are not getting 8-9 yards a carry on the ground. However, it has been shown that with a good balance, the running game is good enough to keep defenses honest.

2. Defense: Nuff said. Much improved even from the first 3 weeks of the season.

3. Special teams: What perfect timing for your clutch kicker to get the yips. WTG KB!

Now the knock on him has been some questionable game management skills. I think he can fix a big factor in this by firing his entire instant replay staff. Those guys are the most incompetent idiots I have seen. Who here was not yelling, "Run a $#%$! play!" after the Moats fumble in Indy?
Kubiak was all the way across the field and could not see it. It is the replay guys who should have been yelling into the headset.

Still I think he could have done a better job in certain situations. However, every coach makes stupid decisions at times *cough* Bellichick 4th and 2 *cough*.

What this team lacks is maturity and seasoning in critical game situations. The players keep spazzing out when the game is on the line? As a coach how do you fix that? Have the players learned any lessons this year?

The bottom line is this Kubiak and Smith have done a great job of building this roster for the future. This team is teetering on the edge of greatness.

If Kubiak is going to succeed as a head coach, I want it to be here.

Can Kubiak push them over the edge? I really don't know and that is my dilemma.You mention some of the things that have me thinking also. Is it possible Pitts can return healthy and be a decent LG for a reasonable contract offer? A power back like Gerhart, Dwyer or maybe even Dixon could run behind Brown and Pitts or Caldwell and Winston. I think Pitts would strengthen Brown also. I have basically written Pitts off but maybe I moved to fast. A Haden or Kyle Wilson to replace and upgrade DR and a solid FS to eventually replace Eugen Wilson and maybe a center like Thomas Austin or the Baylor kid.

gtexan02
12-15-2009, 11:01 AM
I voted "Yes"

If we can get Cowher or someone I know will be an improvemet, then I'd change my vote to "no"

If we lose to StL, I'd change my vote to "no"

If we win out and make the playoffs, I keep my vote no matter anything else

Ranger Tom
12-15-2009, 11:14 AM
We should probably do this at least a week after the season ends, so that we can look back over all 16 games and calm down.

I voted to keep him, and here's why: Dom Capers had been in the league for a good while. From that perspective, he didn't go 2-10 after three years. He went 2-10 after many years. Kubiak is on track to go 8-8 in fourth year ever as a coach, with an offensive line that is missing both its starting guards. I have faith that he can get the job done in his fifth year.

Vinny
12-15-2009, 11:38 AM
We should probably do this at least a week after the season ends, so that we can look back over all 16 games and calm down.

I voted to keep him, and here's why: Dom Capers had been in the league for a good while. From that perspective, he didn't go 2-10 after three years. He went 2-10 after many years. Kubiak is on track to go 8-8 in fourth year ever as a coach, with an offensive line that is missing both its starting guards. I have faith that he can get the job done in his fifth year.
Capers was only here four years and Kubiak has only beaten his best yearly record by one game, with vastly superior players.

Double Barrel
12-15-2009, 11:47 AM
Capers was only here four years and Kubiak has only beaten his best yearly record by one game, with vastly superior players.

yeah, but the players did not like Capers like they like Kubiak. :worldpeace:

__________________
“The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.”
~ William Arthur Ward

infantrycak
12-15-2009, 11:57 AM
Capers was only here four years and Kubiak has only beaten his best yearly record by one game, with vastly superior players.

True, but you know that 7-9 team was a mirage. You didn't walk into the Indy game expecting to win or even play them well. You hoped they would beat the likes of Cleveland - and they failed.

disaacks3
12-15-2009, 12:06 PM
I haven't voted yet and decided to check on things after butt-whooping the chickenhawks.

Currently 51-50? - Gee, you'd almost think the board was split on this issue. :shades:

Double Barrel
12-15-2009, 12:20 PM
True, but you know that 7-9 team was a mirage. You didn't walk into the Indy game expecting to win or even play them well. You hoped they would beat the likes of Cleveland - and they failed.

Did you check the DVOA for the 2005 team that went 7-9? Divide the number by QB rating in order to calculate the square root of insanity.

__________________
“The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.”
~ William Arthur Ward

powerfuldragon
12-15-2009, 12:24 PM
wow. quite a split. and all this since the seahawks game.. before that game i think it was something like 50 - 25 in favor of dropping kubiak.

Vinny
12-15-2009, 12:29 PM
True, but you know that 7-9 team was a mirage. You didn't walk into the Indy game expecting to win or even play them well. You hoped they would beat the likes of Cleveland - and they failed.So Capers gets no credit for taking worthless players and getting a 7-9 season out of them?

Vinny
12-15-2009, 12:31 PM
wow. quite a split. and all this since the seahawks game.. before that game i think it was something like 50 - 25 in favor of dropping kubiak.Its amazing how the scales tip after beating a really awful team. Personally, I didn't change my opinion about Kubiak since I've always known his team can push around the dregs of the league. I don't know why anyone would change their mind about a coach when his team beats up the little sisters of the poor.

infantrycak
12-15-2009, 12:38 PM
So Capers gets no credit for taking worthless players and getting a 7-9 season out of them?

I truly don't know how much credit to give to Capers for that season. That team lived off of turnovers. Sure coaches can talk about those but I am not sure how much influence they really have. Dunta had 6 picks that year and has only had 7 in the five seasons since for example. DD was the entire offense. How much credit does Capers get for that? Anyway, the main point was that 7-9 team obviously was only 1 win away from equalling Kubiak's best year so far but I think this team is clearly superior. If the two were to play 16 games the current Texans beat that 7-9 team 13 or 14 times.

disaacks3
12-15-2009, 12:41 PM
Its amazing how the scales tip after beating a really awful team. Personally, I didn't change my opinion about Kubiak since I've always known his team can push around the dregs of the league. I don't know why anyone would change their mind about a coach when his team beats up the little sisters of the poor.
That was kinda how I felt as well, especially considering the "whopping" 3 pts. our offense put up in the 2nd half. The Defense played BOTH halves.

Edit: Running the ball to burn clock may be OK, but it puts extra pressure on the Defense if you keep them on the field longer (with all the three & outs). I do NOT consider that to be a good decision. That may work against the 'hawks, but NOT the Colts.

Double Barrel
12-15-2009, 12:54 PM
I truly don't know how much credit to give to Capers for that season. That team lived off of turnovers. Sure coaches can talk about those but I am not sure how much influence they really have. Dunta had 6 picks that year and has only had 7 in the five seasons since for example. DD was the entire offense. How much credit does Capers get for that? Anyway, the main point was that 7-9 team obviously was only 1 win away from equalling Kubiak's best year so far but I think this team is clearly superior. If the two were to play 16 games the current Texans beat that 7-9 team 13 or 14 times.

C'mon, now, AJ had 79 receptions for 1142 yards. That is a huge chunk of offense.

The 2004 team also had a 2-4 division record, compared with the 2009 record of 1-5.

I'm not trying to make a case of 2004 vs. 2009, but it's not like it is obviously clear that the either team is better than the other based on results and scoreboard.

While we certainly feel that the 2009 is the most talented Texans team to date, the big question is why are the results the same as any year before?


__________________
“The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.”
~ William Arthur Ward

Pantherstang84
12-15-2009, 01:01 PM
My comments in bold. It's no dilemma for me. If they played in any other
division than the AFC South, they'd be a perennial playoff team. However,
the flaw in their plan is that they've decided to IGNORE THEIR OWN DIVISION.
Every game that mattered this year, which is the first year they've HAD
any meaningful games, they've LOST. You can't go 7-17 in your own division,
for FOUR YEARS, and expect to keep your job.

Thanks for building the roster, but continuity only matters when you're
WINNING!

*sigh* I don't have time to play dissect the post, but your comment about good coaching at Indy brings to mind one comment.

Jim Caldwell is one lucky SOB. He has a QB that makes him look like a freaking genius all Caldwell has to do is stay out of the way. Defensively the Colts have a system and they can plug players right in. Houston does not have a defensive system yet.

I will say this. You are a tee totaler once you jump off the bridge you deliberately leave the parachute behind.

Vinny
12-15-2009, 01:03 PM
*sigh* I don't have time to play dissect the post, but your comment about good coaching at Indy brings to mind one comment.

Jim Caldwell is one lucky SOB. He has a QB that makes him look like a freaking genius all Caldwell has to do is stay out of the way. Defensively the Colts have a system and they can plug players right in. Houston does not have a defensive system yet.

I will say this. You are a tee totaler once you jump off the bridge you deliberately leave the parachute behind.
I've seen great coaches retire and then the next guy totally craters. Gotta give Jim Caldwell some credit. They changed their defense from the tampa2 this year as well, so it's not like they are running Dungy's defense.

Texaninlild
12-15-2009, 01:10 PM
I think Kubiak should go, but only for the right coach. I want a coach who has won a Super Bowl. I want a been there, done that guy.

1. Chin
2. Chuckie

Mr. White
12-15-2009, 01:13 PM
*sigh* I don't have time to play dissect the post, but your comment about good coaching at Indy brings to mind one comment.

Jim Caldwell is one lucky SOB. He has a QB that makes him look like a freaking genius all Caldwell has to do is stay out of the way. Defensively the Colts have a system and they can plug players right in. Houston does not have a defensive system yet.

I will say this. You are a tee totaler once you jump off the bridge you deliberately leave the parachute behind.

"Yeah how dare people really think things over for themselves."

Your words.

DD0701
12-15-2009, 01:33 PM
One more year!!

I'm just a newbie that had to register in order to vote but, I still remember all the years of no football, then the years of very ugly football. That four game skid tore my heart out every Sunday but, I can deal with one more year of 8-8 or 9-7 looking back.

Lets give a very young team and a very "young" coach one more year to take what they have been learning and apply it.

noxiousdog
12-15-2009, 01:40 PM
I've seen great coaches retire and then the next guy totally craters. Gotta give Jim Caldwell some credit. They changed their defense from the tampa2 this year as well, so it's not like they are running Dungy's defense.

And then there's Mike Tomlin. He's done great and cratered!

HoustonFrog
12-15-2009, 02:04 PM
I agree with some others. So we beat one of the worst teams I've seen in the NFL this year and all of a sudden Kubes is the man? Seriously. No reasoning about how it took him 13 games to give a rousing speech to help save his job?

infantrycak
12-15-2009, 02:04 PM
C'mon, now, AJ had 79 receptions for 1142 yards. That is a huge chunk of offense.

The 2004 team also had a 2-4 division record, compared with the 2009 record of 1-5.

I'm not trying to make a case of 2004 vs. 2009, but it's not like it is obviously clear that the either team is better than the other based on results and scoreboard.

While we certainly feel that the 2009 is the most talented Texans team to date, the big question is why are the results the same as any year before?
__________________
“The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.”
~ William Arthur Ward

I knew someone would bring up AJ when I typed that. I left him out not because he wasn't very good but because we so underutilized him. Sure HWWNBN found him a fair amount but let's face it, that offense went through DD. That isn't at all to slight AJ - it wasn't his fault. That team overall though was grossly inferior to the current product. Only one of our losses that year was by less than a TD. This year only one is by more than a TD. I know the "all that counts is the W" argument but I just don't see it that way.

Texan_Bill
12-15-2009, 02:07 PM
True, but you know that 7-9 team was a mirage. You didn't walk into the Indy game expecting to win or even play them well. You hoped they would beat the likes of Cleveland - and they failed.

Yup!! We found out the hard way in the 16th game. The 22-14 loss versus Cleveland. They came into Reliant 3-12. We were 7-8 hoping for our first non-losing season.... FAIL.

Double Barrel
12-15-2009, 02:51 PM
I knew someone would bring up AJ when I typed that. I left him out not because he wasn't very good but because we so underutilized him. Sure HWWNBN found him a fair amount but let's face it, that offense went through DD. That isn't at all to slight AJ - it wasn't his fault. That team overall though was grossly inferior to the current product. Only one of our losses that year was by less than a TD. This year only one is by more than a TD. I know the "all that counts is the W" argument but I just don't see it that way.

Interesting things to note...we had a running game with a defensive minded head coach...Capers got to 7-9 with much less talent than Kubiak, who has managed only one more win in a season.

These are not pro- or con- arguments about Kubiak as much as they are observations. While they can certainly spin in a given direction, though.

I think the "more talented 2009 Texans" both praises and hurts Kubiak. On the one hand, he has made improvement in terms of talent, but yet with more talent seems to fall short every year.

Yup!! We found out the hard way in the 16th game. The 22-14 loss versus Cleveland. They came into Reliant 3-12. We were 7-8 hoping for our first non-losing season.... FAIL.

Strange as it sounds, that inability to 'seal the deal' is what reminds me about both the 2004 and the 2009 Texans. When they really needed to win to , they both seem to come up short. We had four games in a row this season that needed to pull a single freakin' win from, but we get...FAIL.


__________________
“The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.”
[I]~ William Arthur Ward

Showtime100
12-15-2009, 02:56 PM
55-55 at the moment. I guess we are a little torn..lol. I voted no for many in-game decisions and non-decisions. [Half the House applauds, the other half is quiet as a mouse - wait - did somebody just call me a liar?]

DexmanC
12-15-2009, 03:05 PM
I'm noticing a disturbing trend coming from the "Pro-Kubiak" camp. They
constantly back up their argument to keep Kubiak here by comparing
his current regime to that of the Capers/Casserly era. Of course, if you
do that, then this regime looks like a perennial winner. However, to get
this team where it needs to go, its sights need to be set MUCH HIGHER.

Kubiak runs a fun camp. Players get days off after wins. They get plenty
of time to play Halo and Madden in the lockerroom. Players who "don't really
feel fresh" get to take full days off from practice. This is nice. This is
compassionate. However, it translates to a lack of focus and lack of
situational awareness at crucial times ON THE FIELD.

Even in the Seahawks game, we had a fumbled snap in the redzone. We also
had break down on special teams which resulted in a blocked fieldgoal. Eric
Winston false-started in the redzone again. This was a game that should
have been won my much more than 34-7, but bad teams can't make you
pay for fumbling a snap in the redzone. The good teams do, which the
Texans have all of ONE win against this season, and SEVEN out of
THIRTY TWO TRIES under Kubiak.

Who are the Texans' peers? The Colts, Jags, and Titans? Or, is it the Lions,
Rams, Bills, and Buccanneers? When Kubiak is here, it's the latter. I'd
prefer the former.

noxiousdog
12-15-2009, 03:08 PM
Interesting things to note...we had a running game with a defensive minded head coach...Capers got to 7-9 with much less talent than Kubiak, who has managed only one more win in a season.

You've got to be kidding me.

In four years Capers was 28 games under .500 with Texans. 28!

Kubiak would have to lose 23 games in a row to reach that futility.

Double Barrel
12-15-2009, 03:11 PM
You've got to be kidding me.

In four years Capers was 28 games under .500 with Texans. 28!

Kubiak would have to lose 23 games in a row to reach that futility.

o.k., so Kubiak is better than Capers....and your point?

I was comparing the 2004 Texans to the 2009 Texans, since comprehension does not seem to be an integral parting of reading skills.


__________________
“The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.”
~ William Arthur Ward

HoustonFrog
12-15-2009, 03:20 PM
I'm noticing a disturbing trend coming from the "Pro-Kubiak" camp. They
constantly back up their argument to keep Kubiak here by comparing
his current regime to that of the Capers/Casserly era. Of course, if you
do that, then this regime looks like a perennial winner. However, to get
this team where it needs to go, its sights need to be set MUCH HIGHER.



Not only that but the standard of excellence is all skewed. For many supporting him, small amounts of success, despite the record is good enough. Next step...winning record and maybe some playoff fun. Whereas most teams in the NFL are making changes, etc for one goal..post-season and a SB run. Maybe the Capers era burned too many people and therefore thinking big is a stretch but it is a poor reflection on your views if having more talent and looking good getting to .500 is worthy of praise and more time. As I've mentioned 10 times, kill the Boys and J. Jones if you will but I will never rag on the standard....playoffs and SB or bust. Thus a coach with a winning record on the hot seat. It is why many coaches don't get the leash that they have here. I remember before the season a majority of people were saying..."expectations high..playoffs." Yet now they have dumbed them down to account for.............what?

Joe Texan
12-15-2009, 03:30 PM
All you Soap carriers need to take a bath. We lost Owen and lost 4 games, We were less that a touchdown away from winning the 4 games. Would Owen have had a touchdown in those games, I say yes and then we win and are a lock in the playoffs. You fairweather Soap Stars need to really take a look in the mirror and tell yourselfs that we need our starting players to win football games. Chester was injured early and he has been a starter from day one. He is gone and the other starting guard is gone and Meyers true colors come out and our running game stinks. It really makes me wonder if you guys with the soap are reallly Texan fans or are you cowboy fans or do you just not know anything about the NFL.

MUSSOP YOUR ON TOP OF THE LIST

gwallaia
12-15-2009, 03:34 PM
Seems like all 32 teams have injury issues during the season. Hell, 12 of em make the playoffs.

JB
12-15-2009, 03:36 PM
Seems like all 32 teams have injury issues during the season. Hell, 12 of em make the playoffs.

Where do you figure they would finish if the Colts lost Clark?

mussop
12-15-2009, 03:37 PM
True, but you know that 7-9 team was a mirage. You didn't walk into the Indy game expecting to win or even play them well. You hoped they would beat the likes of Cleveland - and they failed.

Hell even when we had a 17 point lead against Indy I didnt expect this team to win. This is the most Jeckle and Hyde team I have ever seen. You litterally never know whos going to show up from half to half much less game to game. Thats what bothers me, the inconsistency.

Even though we dominated Seattle on the score board if you really look at the game we Jeckle and Hyded from one half to the next. That is a reflection of poor coaching anyway you spin it. Couple that with all the poor in game decisions and personell decisions and game management decisions Kubik has made and its crystal clear to me that this team needs a new leader.

HoustonFrog
12-15-2009, 03:37 PM
All you Soap carriers need to take a bath. We lost Owen and lost 4 games, We were less that a touchdown away from winning the 4 games. Would Owen have had a touchdown in those games, I say yes and then we win and are a lock in the playoffs. You fairweather Soap Stars need to really take a look in the mirror and tell yourselfs that we need our starting players to win football games. Chester was injured early and he has been a starter from day one. He is gone and the other starting guard is gone and Meyers true colors come out and our running game stinks. It really makes me wonder if you guys with the soap are reallly Texan fans or are you cowboy fans or do you just not know anything about the NFL.

MUSSOP YOUR ON TOP OF THE LIST

So the Texans are the only team that has to have an injury free team to do well? You know most teams lose players at some point? You really are one of the least knowledgable fans I've ever met. Your comments are just inane. I don't think, I KNOW you know nothing about the NFL. So how can you account for an undefeated team having this on defense:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/091201&sportCat=nfl

Sweet Unknowns of the Week: As Houston kicked a field goal to take a 17-0 lead over Indianapolis, Spenser, my 14-year-old, pronounced of the Texans, "They're doomed." And yea, verily, it came to pass. From that point on, the Indianapolis defense controlled the game while Peyton Manning's offense methodically ground its way forward.

With Bob Sanders and Marlin Jackson out for the season, and Dwight Freeney missing the contest with an injury, the Colts' defense started no one drafted higher than the third round. Big plays were made by Colts defensive starters Gary Brackett, Daniel Muir, Melvin Bullitt and Jacob Lacey, all of whom were undrafted free agents. Pierre Garçon, out of Division III Mount Union, caught a touchdown pass. Chad Simpson, undrafted out of Division I-AA Morgan State, scored a touchdown, breaking three tackles when Houston players tried to strip the ball. Robert Mathis, a low draft pick out of Division I-AA Alabama A&M, not only stripped Matt Schaub of the ball to set up the game-icing touchdown, he did so while being held by the Moo Cows' offensive line. I don't know what's in the water in Indiana, but it seems to turn unknowns into football players.

Didn't the Texans keep 3 TEs and guys like Casey so they could plug them in and do pretty well?

noxiousdog
12-15-2009, 03:37 PM
o.k., so Kubiak is better than Capers....and your point?

I was comparing the 2004 Texans to the 2009 Texans, since comprehension does not seem to be an integral parting of reading skills.



I certainly don't comprehend the purpose of such a meaningless comparison.

Mr. White
12-15-2009, 03:38 PM
Where do you figure they would finish if the Colts lost Clark?

He missed 4 games in 2006 and they won the Super Bowl.

noxiousdog
12-15-2009, 03:58 PM
He missed 4 games in 2006 and they won the Super Bowl.

3 of their 4 losses came when he was out. Owen Daniels is still not a good excuse for the season. I'd blame the o-line injuries and Kris Brown turning into a buffoon before Owen.

Goldensilence
12-15-2009, 04:12 PM
And then there's Mike Tomlin. He's done great and cratered!

Yeah 10-6 season and then a superbowl win gives you time to fix things. I think it's pretty obvious where the Steelers deficiencies are, OL. Tomlin has said as much that changes are coming in the off-season. I expect to see the OC and OL coach fired and them make draft moves and maybe some FA moves to resolve the line. Might even bring back Russ Grim in some capacity if possible.

They call that accountability. Some I dearly wish Kubiak would've learned with his coaching staff prior to the start of the year.

Where do you figure they would finish if the Colts lost Clark?

At worst right now? 9-4.

Ok forget the fact that this year they didn't have Marvin Harrison and Anthony Gonzalez has been out. Oh yeah Bob Sanders too. They've had two pretty much nobodies step up in Garcon and Collie and do good jobs.

Point is they draft well and have a system that's established where you can insert a player and have his strengths maximized.

I know its easy to point to Peyton, but give Caldwell some credit this team hasn't missed a beat.

JT
12-15-2009, 04:25 PM
So the Texans are the only team that has to have an injury free team to do well? You know most teams lose players at some point? You really are one of the least knowledgable fans I've ever met. Your comments are just inane. I don't think, I KNOW you know nothing about the NFL. So how can you account for an undefeated team having this on defense:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/091201&sportCat=nfl



Didn't the Texans keep 3 TEs and guys like Casey so they could plug them in and do pretty well?


Owned on all points. I think he should stick to making pinatas.

mussop
12-15-2009, 04:26 PM
All you Soap carriers need to take a bath. We lost Owen and lost 4 games, We were less that a touchdown away from winning the 4 games. Would Owen have had a touchdown in those games, I say yes and then we win and are a lock in the playoffs. You fairweather Soap Stars need to really take a look in the mirror and tell yourselfs that we need our starting players to win football games. Chester was injured early and he has been a starter from day one. He is gone and the other starting guard is gone and Meyers true colors come out and our running game stinks. It really makes me wonder if you guys with the soap are reallly Texan fans or are you cowboy fans or do you just not know anything about the NFL.

MUSSOP YOUR ON TOP OF THE LIST


Your post reflect that of a glorified cheerleader. You need to put down your pom poms if you want to be taken seriously. You bring nothing to the conversation but RA RA talk. Even when you try and put some something with substance in youre post it ends up being conjecture and fantasy followed by childish insults.

Until you actually have an intelligent well thought out football take I dont think you should be questioning anyone elses football knowledge. Even 15year olds on this board are capable of insightfull post which is more than I can say about you. Maybe you need to look in the mirror and ask yourself if you are really intellectually capable of not making yourself look like a bableing fool. My bet is no!

swtbound07
12-15-2009, 04:30 PM
I voted no. The decision making is just too painful.

Texecutioner
12-15-2009, 04:31 PM
Your post reflect that of a glorified cheerleader. You need to put down your pom poms if you want to be taken seriously. You bring nothing to the conversation but RA RA talk. Even when you try and put some something with substance in youre post it ends up being conjecture and fantasy followed by childish insults.

Until you actually have an intelligent well thought out football take I dont think you should be questioning anyone elses football knowledge. Even 15year olds on this board are capable of insightfull post which is more than I can say about you. Maybe you need to look in the mirror and ask yourself if you are really intellectually capable of not making yourself look like a bableing fool. My bet is no!

Tried to rep you but it wouldn't let me.

Any way, correct on all points.

JT
12-15-2009, 04:31 PM
Your post reflect that of a glorified cheerleader. You need to put down your pom poms if you want to be taken seriously. You bring nothing to the conversation but RA RA talk. Even when you try and put some something with substance in youre post it ends up being conjecture and fantasy followed by childish insults.

Until you actually have an intelligent well thought out football take I dont think you should be questioning anyone elses football knowledge. Even 15year olds on this board are capable of insightfull post which is more than I can say about you. Maybe you need to look in the mirror and ask yourself if you are really intellectually capable of not making yourself look like a bableing fool. My bet is no!

Its that I was here first "since the begining' therefore what I so goes or don't come to my tailgate attitude thats really wearing thin on folks here.

Texecutioner
12-15-2009, 04:36 PM
All you Soap carriers need to take a bath. We lost Owen and lost 4 games, We were less that a touchdown away from winning the 4 games. Would Owen have had a touchdown in those games, I say yes and then we win and are a lock in the playoffs. You fairweather Soap Stars need to really take a look in the mirror and tell yourselfs that we need our starting players to win football games. Chester was injured early and he has been a starter from day one. He is gone and the other starting guard is gone and Meyers true colors come out and our running game stinks. It really makes me wonder if you guys with the soap are reallly Texan fans or are you cowboy fans or do you just not know anything about the NFL.

MUSSOP YOUR ON TOP OF THE LIST

JT, this is really getting old from you now. You call yourself this "ultimate fan" of the Texans, but then constantly go out of your way to insult and flame other Texans fans. And for what? Because they are passionate and want success for their team? That's really ridiculous. That is not what an "ultimate fan" is supposed to be about or stand for. Support the coaching staff all that you want, but don't sit here and trash other people because they want to have a great team. It comes off as embarrassing for you actually.

Texan_Bill
12-15-2009, 04:41 PM
Its that I was here first "since the begining' therefore what I so goes or don't come to my tailgate attitude thats really wearing thin on folks here.

Funny thing is that Joe Texan was one of the early members on the original TexansTalk message board. He joined in 2003.

Thorn
12-15-2009, 04:42 PM
And the poll is getting tighter. I hope it ends up in a dead tie. That's when I'll be accepting bribes for my vote. :)

Texan_Bill
12-15-2009, 04:43 PM
And the poll is getting tighter. I hope it ends up in a dead tie. That's when I'll be accepting bribes for my vote. :)

Damn, you'll do anything to speed up your retirement.. :specnatz:

JT
12-15-2009, 04:46 PM
Funny thing is that Joe Texan was one of the early members on the original TexansTalk message board. He joined in 2003.

So that makes him the end all be all of Texan fan?! Yeah he can go be a fan wherever Kubiak ends up.

dalemurphy
12-15-2009, 04:47 PM
Yeah 10-6 season and then a superbowl win gives you time to fix things. I think it's pretty obvious where the Steelers deficiencies are, OL. Tomlin has said as much that changes are coming in the off-season. I expect to see the OC and OL coach fired and them make draft moves and maybe some FA moves to resolve the line. Might even bring back Russ Grim in some capacity if possible.

They call that accountability. Some I dearly wish Kubiak would've learned with his coaching staff prior to the start of the year.


At worst right now? 9-4.

Ok forget the fact that this year they didn't have Marvin Harrison and Anthony Gonzalez has been out. Oh yeah Bob Sanders too. They've had two pretty much nobodies step up in Garcon and Collie and do good jobs.

Point is they draft well and have a system that's established where you can insert a player and have his strengths maximized.

I know its easy to point to Peyton, but give Caldwell some credit this team hasn't missed a beat.


I agree that accountability is important. However, Kubiak did have Richard Smith replaced after last season. I would argue that he waited one season too long but Kubiak wanted to give Smith a chance with some talent on defense. I think Kubiak will be making upgrades on the OL just like Tomlin plans to. They spent last off-season determined to upgrade the defense. And, it worked. I'd like to see one more season from these guys.

I do agree, though, that crying about injuries is pretty silly. If we'd lost our QB, OTs, Mario, etc... then, that would be extraordinary circumstances... but, most teams have significant injuries and the Colts certainly have.

Texan_Bill
12-15-2009, 04:49 PM
So that makes him the end all be all of Texan fan?! Yeah he can go be a fan wherever Kubiak ends up.

He's a Texan fan. He just has different opinions than some other folks. Some people agree, some don't. If a certain poster's opinions irritate you, simply don't read those posts. Basic really.

dalemurphy
12-15-2009, 04:50 PM
Yeah 10-6 season and then a superbowl win gives you time to fix things..

I think some of us are being a little misunderstood. I would like to say that I'm not in the "pro Kubiak club"... I'm in the Pro Texan club. I just happen to believe that is in the Texans' best interest to keep him next year, probably... I'm not arguing that he deserves or has earned another season. Like Clint Eastwood said in Unforgiven, "Deserve has got nothing to do with it!"

Thorn
12-15-2009, 04:51 PM
Damn, you'll do anything to speed up your retirement.. :specnatz:

LOL

My problem is, I like Kubiak, it's just he hasn't been effective. Besides which, Kubes didn't fumble on the goal line or miss field goals. And yeah yeah yeah yeah, if Kubiak can get the team to actually play for two halves instead of one.....and on and on.

I see both sides and that's why it's hard for me to make up my mind.

Showtime100
12-15-2009, 04:52 PM
He's a Texan fan. He just has different opinions than some other folks. Some people agree, some don't. If a certain poster's opinions irritate you, simply don't read those posts. Basic really.

I put myself on "ignore" and I can now see clear back to the big bang. :D

Texan_Bill
12-15-2009, 04:52 PM
LOL

My problem is, I like Kubiak, it's just he hasn't been effective. Besides which, Kubes didn't fumble on the goal line or miss field goals. And yeah yeah yeah yeah, if Kubiak can get the team to actually play for two halves instead of one.....and on and on.

I see both sides and that's why it's hard for me to make up my mind.

I call BS.. You're just holding out for the best offer... lol:

mussop
12-15-2009, 04:53 PM
Funny thing is that Joe Texan was one of the early members on the original TexansTalk message board. He joined in 2003.

No the funny thing is that he has irragation listed as his occupation. He certainly is good at funneling poop to this message board.

MannyFresh
12-15-2009, 04:54 PM
I'm thinking Kubiak is in a "safe zone" sort of since there's that "he's done this for us", and "we don't want to tear everything down and rebuild" saying.
There's no telling about Kubiak status.

He's finally in that you mess up, your benched mode with the RBs by sitting Moats after his fumble and C. Brown when he wasn't producing, but why did he wait soooo long to do that instead of that first time the ball popped out of Slaton's hands against the Jets and the C. Brown fumbles? That's what frustrates folks about Kubiak, he doesn't do anything until it's too late.

Thorn
12-15-2009, 04:55 PM
I call BS.. You're just holding out for the best offer... lol:

I'll start the bidding at $20. :texflag:

Showtime100
12-15-2009, 04:58 PM
I'll start the bidding at $20. :texflag:

Deal, I take ca$h only. :firehair: (I just saw that emoticon earlier and had to use it)

Double Barrel
12-15-2009, 04:59 PM
I certainly don't comprehend the purpose of such a meaningless comparison.

Then don't quote me since the conversation is obviously over your head. :thinking:

You admittedly don't comprehend but you feel the need to spew anyway? I would type slower for you but I think your inability to understand is deeper than that. Good luck in the slow lane, dude. Infantrycak will honk as he's passing you by in his mighty SUV. [/sarcasm]

disaacks3
12-15-2009, 05:22 PM
It's a shame this issue isn't causing any division amongst the posters. :rofl:

In all honesty there really isn't a clear right / wrong answer on this one as valid / logical points exist for both possible answers. (That doesn't necessarily mean that any individual poster is basing his/her decision on logic)

At the end of the day, we're ALL fans who want to see the TEAM succeed - it's just that on this issue, we're divided as to the best way to accomplish that goal.

So...pretty, pretty please stop with the personal attacks BOTH ways. Remember that the guy you're arguing with today may be the guy you're high-fiving with after we do (eventually) make the playoffs!

Texan_Bill
12-15-2009, 05:57 PM
It's a shame this issue isn't causing any division amongst the posters. :rofl:

In all honesty there really isn't a clear right / wrong answer on this one as valid / logical points exist for both possible answers. (That doesn't necessarily mean that any individual poster is basing his/her decision on logic)

At the end of the day, we're ALL fans who want to see the TEAM succeed - it's just that on this issue, we're divided as to the best way to accomplish that goal.

So...pretty, pretty please stop with the personal attacks BOTH ways. Remember that the guy you're arguing with today may be the guy you're high-fiving with after we do (eventually) make the playoffs!

Quit hanging out with Thorn.. :whip:

WWJD
12-15-2009, 06:01 PM
I voted not to retain him.

To me the continual lack of success within the Texans own division is reason enough to release Coach Kubiak.

That's a yearly problem even if the team is improved.

Double Barrel
12-15-2009, 06:36 PM
I voted not to retain him.

To me the continual lack of success within the Texans own division is reason enough to release Coach Kubiak.

That's a yearly problem even if the team is improved.

That's a really good point. People like to rip on Capers, but in four years he won 6 divisional games. Kubiak in four years has won 7. Capers did it with an expansion team bookending the beginning and a 2-14 team the end. (Capers actually went 4-2 in our division in 2004. Kubiak's best is 3-3 - I.E. .500 *SURPRISE!* - in 2006.)

Scoreboard - the only stat that really matters - shows that Kubiak has been slightly marginal improvement over the Capers regime. I just don't see how that is tolerable four years into it, because you really have to buy into a lot of speculation, pointless stats, and a bit of fairy dust of hope to want another year of mediocrity. JMO

__________________
“The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.”
~ William Arthur Ward

Joe Texan
12-15-2009, 07:33 PM
JT, this is really getting old from you now. You call yourself this "ultimate fan" of the Texans, but then constantly go out of your way to insult and flame other Texans fans. And for what? Because they are passionate and want success for their team? That's really ridiculous. That is not what an "ultimate fan" is supposed to be about or stand for. Support the coaching staff all that you want, but don't sit here and trash other people because they want to have a great team. It comes off as embarrassing for you actually.


I aim at the soap droppers who continially Bash a coach who has never been a head coach till he came here and who has lost a serious amount of players (starters) Plus others and still keeps us within a touchdown of winning the games we lost. Every last soap dropper wants to bring in Pittifulsburg and say look at that coach when actually he inherited a superbowl team from Cower. All the soap droppers think they can pursuade Bill Cower to come here and coach when they really have no way to get the guy here in the first place. We have a Coach who wants to win, He is the coach of a young team and the team is making mistakes. When the team does not make mistakes we score high and beat teams. when the team makes mistakes we are still within a touchdown of winning. But that is a Sorry coach or at least that is what the soap is saying.

I will go personal if provoked and Frog why don't you hug up to your cowpie star. You have no Idea who I am or what I know so quit the personal attacks and stick with the why you want Kubiak to anialate the Cowgirls next year.

Second Honeymoon
12-15-2009, 07:36 PM
I aim at the soap droppers who continially Bash a coach who has never been a head coach till he came here and who has lost a serious amount of players (starters) Plus others and still keeps us within a touchdown of winning the games we lost. Every last soap dropper wants to bring in Pittifulsburg and say look at that coach when actually he inherited a superbowl team from Cower. All the soap droppers think they can pursuade Bill Cower to come here and coach when they really have no way to get the guy here in the first place. We have a Coach who wants to win, He is the coach of a young team and the team is making mistakes. When the team does not make mistakes we score high and beat teams. when the team makes mistakes we are still within a touchdown of winning. But that is a Sorry coach or at least that is what the soap is saying.

I will go personal if provoked and Frog why don't you hug up to your cowpie star. You have no Idea who I am or what I know so quit the personal attacks and stick with the why you want Kubiak to anialate the Cowgirls next year.

Pitifulsburgh? Did you come up with that all on your own? Simply brilliant.

but yeah 6 Super Bowl trophies is definitely pitiful. nice word play though, you just 'anialated' the competition.

it was a nice touch when you used the 'I aim at the soap droppers who continially Bash a coach who has never been a head coach till he came here'. So we are supposed to feel sorry for Kubiak because he had never been a coach before. Well News Flash dude, he has been a head coach for 4 years. When does that excuse run out? Does it have a statue of limitations? Is it even an excuse or is it just a perennial pity party for Kubiak? 4 years is enough time to get things turned around and he failed. But don't let me stop you from breaking out your kool aid and spiking it with ignorance. We have heard it all before.

At least Kubiak waits till the season is basically over to give his great pregame speeches. Well played Kubiak. Sorry if his speech and the win fell on deaf ears. I, like you, populate that endzone and cheer right alongside you for our home team, but after 4 years the excuses get a little old. Didn't we learn anything from the whole Carr excuse farming or are you still blaming the Offensive Line for his faleyours? He who does not learn from history is destined to rippeet it.

--Spellchecked by the Joe Texan Foundation for Fan Literacy--

Thorn
12-15-2009, 07:41 PM
Pitifulsburgh? Did you come up with that all on your own? Simply brilliant.

but yeah 6 Super Bowl trophies is definitely pitiful. nice word play though, you just 'anialated' the competition.

Maybe his point was, at this time we are a better team than the Steelers, and I would have to agree with him. Just because they have 6 trophies doesn't mean they are ALWAYS a super bowl team. They are looking pretty ragged right now.

mussop
12-15-2009, 07:53 PM
I aim at the soap droppers who continially Bash a coach who has never been a head coach till he came here and who has lost a serious amount of players (starters) Plus others and still keeps us within a touchdown of winning the games we lost. Every last soap dropper wants to bring in Pittifulsburg and say look at that coach when actually he inherited a superbowl team from Cower. All the soap droppers think they can pursuade Bill Cower to come here and coach when they really have no way to get the guy here in the first place. We have a Coach who wants to win, He is the coach of a young team and the team is making mistakes. When the team does not make mistakes we score high and beat teams. when the team makes mistakes we are still within a touchdown of winning. But that is a Sorry coach or at least that is what the soap is saying.

I will go personal if provoked and Frog why don't you hug up to your cowpie star. You have no Idea who I am or what I know so quit the personal attacks and stick with the why you want Kubiak to anialate the Cowgirls next year.

:stooges: Your the one in the middle right? :smooch:

GP
12-15-2009, 07:59 PM
I aim at the soap droppers who continially Bash a coach who has never been a head coach till he came here and who has lost a serious amount of players (starters) Plus others and still keeps us within a touchdown of winning the games we lost. Every last soap dropper wants to bring in Pittifulsburg and say look at that coach when actually he inherited a superbowl team from Cower. All the soap droppers think they can pursuade Bill Cower to come here and coach when they really have no way to get the guy here in the first place. We have a Coach who wants to win, He is the coach of a young team and the team is making mistakes. When the team does not make mistakes we score high and beat teams. when the team makes mistakes we are still within a touchdown of winning. But that is a Sorry coach or at least that is what the soap is saying.

I will go personal if provoked and Frog why don't you hug up to your cowpie star. You have no Idea who I am or what I know so quit the personal attacks and stick with the why you want Kubiak to anialate the Cowgirls next year.

Joe,

Answer this question with a reasonable answer, please:

QUESTION:How can you be in favor of retaining Kubiak when he can't beat our divisional opponents? When he can't even go .500 against them?

The Jags and the Titans are in a funk this season, and they were VERY ripe for the taking. How can you sit there and support a head coach who this season has won ONE game vs. our divisional rivals? Out of six divisional games, Kubiak's Texans have won ONE game. ONE.

Are we to believe that our players are THAT bad, Joe? Are they? Are you in the stands and really ripping our players a new a-hole because of how badly they have played? Are you as vocal towards our DUMB players as you are against us dumb old soapers?

Can you sit on your throne and honestly say that Gary Kubiak has put this team into position to win every week? Why has the defense played consistent, hard-nosed football, and put this offense into position to win while the offense has literally choked games away when it counts the most?

Couldn't it be that there is one side of the ball who has a good gameday coach and the other side of the ball is led by a man who cannot put games away? A half-back pass in the Red Zone when your bread-and-butter is Andre Freaking Johnson? Not allowing your QB to audible unless it's to a running play? Even Kris Brown has caught the bug--A direct result of knowing that it's going to always come down to HIS leg in order to win games and save the coach's ass every week.

You're mostly a great deal of fun to have around, but I can't see where you make a good case as to WHY Gary Kubiak escapes responsibility for the debacle of this season. The OWNER said he expected playoffs this season. The players said the same thing.

This team can do better. But they need a better man to help them.

I could care less if the offense racks up great stats. Ask Oilers fans what good THAT has done for the team and its fans. Right now, I'm growing in my respect of Fisher and Del Rio (which I never thought I would say) but it's true: They have a killer instinct, and Gary doesn't. And that bleeds over into the players, Joe. It really does.

So tell me why Gary Kubiak, with his track record of infertility when it comes to conceiving and birthing that big CLUTCH win, should get to come back.

GP
12-15-2009, 08:02 PM
Is Gary Kubiak possibly just a younger Jack Pardee with better hair?

Lots of similarities in their sideline demeanor, public speaking tactics and tone, and an inability to seal a game that's there for the taking.

Thorn
12-15-2009, 08:04 PM
Is Gary Kubiak possibly just a younger Jack Pardee with better hair?

Lots of similarities in their sideline demeanor, public speaking tactics and tone, and an inability to seal a game that's there for the taking.

I just HATED it when the Gamblers lost to Arizona in the playoffs.

mussop
12-15-2009, 08:15 PM
Joe,

Answer this question with a reasonable answer, please:

QUESTION:How can you be in favor of retaining Kubiak when he can't beat our divisional opponents? When he can't even go .500 against them?

The Jags and the Titans are in a funk this season, and they were VERY ripe for the taking. How can you sit there and support a head coach who this season has won ONE game vs. our divisional rivals? Out of six divisional games, Kubiak's Texans have won ONE game. ONE.

Are we to believe that our players are THAT bad, Joe? Are they? Are you in the stands and really ripping our players a new a-hole because of how badly they have played? Are you as vocal towards our DUMB players as you are against us dumb old soapers?

Can you sit on your throne and honestly say that Gary Kubiak has put this team into position to win every week? Why has the defense played consistent, hard-nosed football, and put this offense into position to win while the offense has literally choked games away when it counts the most?

Couldn't it be that there is one side of the ball who has a good gameday coach and the other side of the ball is led by a man who cannot put games away? A half-back pass in the Red Zone when your bread-and-butter is Andre Freaking Johnson? Not allowing your QB to audible unless it's to a running play? Even Kris Brown has caught the bug--A direct result of knowing that it's going to always come down to HIS leg in order to win games and save the coach's ass every week.

You're mostly a great deal of fun to have around, but I can't see where you make a good case as to WHY Gary Kubiak escapes responsibility for the debacle of this season. The OWNER said he expected playoffs this season. The players said the same thing.

This team can do better. But they need a better man to help them.

I could care less if the offense racks up great stats. Ask Oilers fans what good THAT has done for the team and its fans. Right now, I'm growing in my respect of Fisher and Del Rio (which I never thought I would say) but it's true: They have a killer instinct, and Gary doesn't. And that bleeds over into the players, Joe. It really does.

So tell me why Gary Kubiak, with his track record of infertility when it comes to conceiving and birthing that big CLUTCH win, should get to come back.

You would have a better chance at getting an intelligent answer from South Carolinas representative in the 2007 Miss Teen USA Pageant. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww)

mussop
12-15-2009, 08:19 PM
I just HATED it when the Gamblers lost to Arizona in the playoffs.

I loved that Gambler team. Talk about a fun team to watch.

HoustonFrog
12-15-2009, 09:39 PM
I aim at the soap droppers who continially Bash a coach who has never been a head coach till he came here and who has lost a serious amount of players (starters) Plus others and still keeps us within a touchdown of winning the games we lost. Every last soap dropper wants to bring in Pittifulsburg and say look at that coach when actually he inherited a superbowl team from Cower. All the soap droppers think they can pursuade Bill Cower to come here and coach when they really have no way to get the guy here in the first place. We have a Coach who wants to win, He is the coach of a young team and the team is making mistakes. When the team does not make mistakes we score high and beat teams. when the team makes mistakes we are still within a touchdown of winning. But that is a Sorry coach or at least that is what the soap is saying.

I will go personal if provoked and Frog why don't you hug up to your cowpie star. You have no Idea who I am or what I know so quit the personal attacks and stick with the why you want Kubiak to anialate the Cowgirls next year.

Come on. You have been going around for 2 weeks now putting everyone on blast and cussing and personally attacking everyone. It is a joke that you can't have a rational conversation when there are good points that many people have discussed. You attacked everyone on here who wants Kubses gone and then made an completely inane point. I countered and there is nothing you can say. It is funny that a fan of another team has been here years and can debate football more passionately and with more facts about the Texans than someone who considers themselves a true fan. I'm just tired of the hit and run slam posts you use.

Basically there is no counter to the fact that Kubes is horrible within the division. Has 26 wins with only 7 against winning teams. According to you and many others he has a) more talent; b) a better offense and c) a better defense yet he has ended up with the same record 3 years straight after 13 weeks and may do worse this season at the end of the year. This is a coach that had to pull out the pep talks of all pep talks this week to beat the Seahawks. A little late to inspire so late huh?I also have heard over and over how he is so nice and the players love the guy. Yet these players that would go to battle for Kubiak can't win important games for him and blow big games for him. This is the same coach that for 3 years has made the same mistakes and same game day preperations that has had his team lose on opening day to rookie QBs and who has come out flat in losses. They never play complete games. So tell me what makes it respectable to think that a franchise should not look for more out of a coach than one who can turn out .500 teams that allegedly are more loaded?

Joe Texan
12-15-2009, 10:13 PM
First of all I never run anywhere Frog and what is it there is not enough going on in Dallas that you come here and talk tough.

Kubiak will be here another year because he has kept the team within less than a touchdown of 90% of the games we lost, We had major injuries although the soap droppers will swear that the Pro Bowl tight End we had did not contribute enough to get us over the less than a touchdown delimma (better spell check that teach) we have been in. We have been playing second string guards and that make meyers a second string center. Gary has turned over 90% of Capers roster in 4 years and it will be more this year. We are steadily getting better at depth and the ability to stay in games but because we do not win the coach Sucks, Not. All you no patients having couch coaches need to take a deep breath and get ready to jump back on the wagon when you see us winning cause I know all of you will. As far as the division games it is like this. no matter how bad a team is in a rivalry game, They will come out to win at all costs. One win is not acceptable if we had a full team but we did not and when we have players go down it hurts us more because of the youngness of our team. All this 3 years and out is pathetic. After three years at my job I was still learning the ins and outs of how the industry worked. on to Jeff Fisher who was mentioned above. He went 8 and 8 for three years but did Bud the Dud dump him, nope and guess what, two great seasons and one Superbowl appearance. No matter how you slice it Gary Kubiak is making improvements and is going to be here next year.

Jottoz
12-15-2009, 10:34 PM
First of all I never run anywhere Frog and what is it there is not enough going on in Dallas that you come here and talk tough.

Kubiak will be here another year because he has kept the team within less than a touchdown of 90% of the games we lost, We had major injuries although the soap droppers will swear that the Pro Bowl tight End we had did not contribute enough to get us over the less than a touchdown delimma (better spell check that teach) we have been in. We have been playing second string guards and that make meyers a second string center. Gary has turned over 90% of Capers roster in 4 years and it will be more this year. We are steadily getting better at depth and the ability to stay in games but because we do not win the coach Sucks, Not. All you no patients having couch coaches need to take a deep breath and get ready to jump back on the wagon when you see us winning cause I know all of you will. As far as the division games it is like this. no matter how bad a team is in a rivalry game, They will come out to win at all costs. One win is not acceptable if we had a full team but we did not and when we have players go down it hurts us more because of the youngness of our team. All this 3 years and out is pathetic. After three years at my job I was still learning the ins and outs of how the industry worked. on to Jeff Fisher who was mentioned above. He went 8 and 8 for three years but did Bud the Dud dump him, nope and guess what, two great seasons and one Superbowl appearance. No matter how you slice it Gary Kubiak is making improvements and is going to be here next year.

Great Post Joe!

I agree we are at the front door. We just have not kicked it in!

We WILL!

Lucky
12-15-2009, 10:39 PM
Kubiak will be here another year because he has kept the team within less than a touchdown of 90% of the games we lost...
Hmmm, just doesn't compel me to switch sides. I keep thinking about these quotes and what it takes to win those games that are within a touchdown.


If it doesn't matter who wins or loses, then why do they keep score?

If you can accept losing, you can't win.

Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser.

Some of us will do our jobs well and some will not, but we will be judged by only one thing-the result.

There is no room for second place. There is only one place in my game and that is first place.

Winning is habit. Unfortunately, so is losing.

If you aren't fired with enthusiasm, you will be fired with enthusiasm.
The habit of losing must be broken. It will take a winner to break that habit. Someone that will shake this organization out of its morass and make the game of football the #1 priority. That man is not Gary Kubiak.

mussop
12-15-2009, 11:33 PM
First of all I never run anywhere Frog and what is it there is not enough going on in Dallas that you come here and talk tough.

Kubiak will be here another year because he has kept the team within less than a touchdown of 90% of the games we lost, We had major injuries although the soap droppers will swear that the Pro Bowl tight End we had did not contribute enough to get us over the less than a touchdown delimma (better spell check that teach) we have been in. We have been playing second string guards and that make meyers a second string center. Gary has turned over 90% of Capers roster in 4 years and it will be more this year. We are steadily getting better at depth and the ability to stay in games but because we do not win the coach Sucks, Not. All you no patients having couch coaches need to take a deep breath and get ready to jump back on the wagon when you see us winning cause I know all of you will. As far as the division games it is like this. no matter how bad a team is in a rivalry game, They will come out to win at all costs. One win is not acceptable if we had a full team but we did not and when we have players go down it hurts us more because of the youngness of our team. All this 3 years and out is pathetic. After three years at my job I was still learning the ins and outs of how the industry worked. on to Jeff Fisher who was mentioned above. He went 8 and 8 for three years but did Bud the Dud dump him, nope and guess what, two great seasons and one Superbowl appearance. No matter how you slice it Gary Kubiak is making improvements and is going to be here next year.

:bravo: Im impressed, you actually put some effort in this post. I mean you still dont have a good argument but hey at least you tried.

Now where to begin, hmm I dont want to throw to much at you at once so Ill start with

All this 3 years and out is pathetic. After three years at my job I was still learning the ins and outs of how the industry worked.

Kubiak has had 4 years not 3.

AND

on to Jeff Fisher who was mentioned above. He went 8 and 8 for three years but did Bud the Dud dump him, nope and guess what, two great seasons and one Superbowl appearance.

Jeff Fisher was working under some very strange conditions when he reached game 60 of his coaching career. Fisher took over the Houston Oilers in midseason, replacing a fired Jack Pardee. Fisher went 1-5 that season. The next year, 1995, the Oilers were 7-9, but the whole uproar over whether the Oilers were getting a new stadium or were departing for Nashville was already well underway. The team went 8-8 under difficult circumstances in 1996 and 8-8 in 1997 as the team practiced in Nashville and played games in Memphis.

The Tennessee Oilers were 3-3 when Fisher hit the 60-game mark in 1998. They would finish that season at 8-8, and the next year, they would go to the Super Bowl. So while it's rather nice of you to provide us idiots with those comparisons, they're not really apt comparisons.

Kubiak's not dealing with the distraction of a franchise moving to another city. And he's yet to get his team to the playoffs, and Fisher wasnt making the same bone headed mistakes over and over again. So good try but NAAAAAAAAA!

Grams
12-16-2009, 06:05 AM
:
Kubiak's not dealing with the distraction of a franchise moving to another city.

And the hurricane last year was not a distraction?

MannyFresh
12-16-2009, 06:29 AM
And the hurricane last year was not a distraction?

OMG seriously!? That's reaching...seriously!?

HoustonFrog
12-16-2009, 06:32 AM
And the hurricane last year was not a distraction?

Fisher had to have his team play at 4 stadiums in 4 years. Constantly adjusting and moving. He did this and still got to .500 with less talent than many teams. Starting one season like that isn't the same. This is also a coach who just took an 0-6 team and has them with the same record as the Texans...the team that has improved every year for 3 years....right?

JT
12-16-2009, 06:49 AM
And the hurricane last year was not a distraction?

:spit: I'm at a loss for words too right now. I doubt Saints fan would use Katrina as an excuse, totally irrelevant on the topic at hand.

Thorn
12-16-2009, 07:08 AM
Kubes has gained the lead back, he's now ahead 70-65! LOL

Second Honeymoon
12-16-2009, 08:11 AM
First of all I never run anywhere Frog and what is it there is not enough going on in Dallas that you come here and talk tough.

Kubiak will be here another year because he has kept the team within less than a touchdown of 90% of the games we lost, We had major injuries although the soap droppers will swear that the Pro Bowl tight End we had did not contribute enough to get us over the less than a touchdown delimma (better spell check that teach) we have been in. We have been playing second string guards and that make meyers a second string center. Gary has turned over 90% of Capers roster in 4 years and it will be more this year. We are steadily getting better at depth and the ability to stay in games but because we do not win the coach Sucks, Not. All you no patients having couch coaches need to take a deep breath and get ready to jump back on the wagon when you see us winning cause I know all of you will. As far as the division games it is like this. no matter how bad a team is in a rivalry game, They will come out to win at all costs. One win is not acceptable if we had a full team but we did not and when we have players go down it hurts us more because of the youngness of our team. All this 3 years and out is pathetic. After three years at my job I was still learning the ins and outs of how the industry worked. on to Jeff Fisher who was mentioned above. He went 8 and 8 for three years but did Bud the Dud dump him, nope and guess what, two great seasons and one Superbowl appearance. No matter how you slice it Gary Kubiak is making improvements and is going to be here next year.

geez, you do realize that other teams have injuries too, right? you do realize that the Texans have had far less injuries than the average NFL team? you do realize that injuries are not an excuse, right?

3 years and out? learn to count. It has been 4 years. That is one greater than 3.

staying in games and then blowing it with bad execution and bad coaching decisions isn't a positive for Kubiak. in fact, its an indictment of Kubiak and shows that we already have the talent but its just being wasted under the tutelage and 'leadership' of your boyfriend, Kubiak.

I don't know what has your coochie so warm for Kubiak, but it sure as hell isn't the results. He has a pathetic divisional record, pathetic record against winning football teams, and a pathetic record THIS year. 6-7 isn't good unless you continue to compare ourselves to the Lions and Raiders of the world.

Just grow up and realize that fans have a right to want Kubiak gone. he has been a loser for 4 years but it sounds like you want to have him re-signed and brought back at any cost to somehow prove you know what you are talking about. sorry, but you don't. your just another carebear homer for losing football that needs to get a life and stop acting like a losing record is some talisman of hope. you also need to stop making excuses for a guy who is 4 years into his job. it just falls on deaf ears and it is truly pathetic.

but continue with your whining and crying about your fellow fans and continue with your excuses and ignorant hypotheticals and comparisons. it is truly pathetic.

simply put, what has Kubiak done to show you he is worthy of keeping his job? is a losing record good enough for you? is it because he is from Houston? is it because is from College Station? is it because he is your boyfriend? we don't know but we are all wondering. it sure as hell isn't his performance or his record.

BIG TORO
12-16-2009, 08:20 AM
There are still more people supporting Kubiak than not, thats including the players, you do not want the players playing for a coach that they dont like. you guys talk about patience, you better have patience if we get a new coach cuz its going to be another few years to make some of you guys happy!

P.S. I voted YES!

Thorn
12-16-2009, 08:24 AM
There are still more people supporting Kubiak than not, thats including the players, you do not want the players playing for a coach that they dont like. you guys talk about patients, you better have patients if we get a new coach cuz its going to be another few years to make some of you guys happy!

Patients? The Texans have several on the injured list. What we need around here is more patience. LOL

Second Honeymoon
12-16-2009, 08:28 AM
Patients? The Texans have several on the injured list. What we need around here is more patience. LOL

why is it that the Kubiak supporters on this board all have the relative intellgence of a lump of coal? coincidence?

me thinks not

of course the players support Kubiak. he runs a Club Med operation and takes all the blame. they know that if another coach comes in here its gonna get a lot tougher....and you know what? It NEEDS to get a lot tougher. Kubiak is just a big softie aww shucks good ole boy loser who is, by definition, a 4 year proven loser. He IS a loser. You can not argue that. Its a fact.

Look at what happens when the guy actually tries to coach and calls out players weak effort (Mario comes to mind). The team goes out and plays well. You don't wait till the season is over to get in players faces and to get them to play up to their talent level. You do that Weeks 1-17 and into the playoffs. We cant have a coach that doesn't start coaching and doing his job until the season is over and there is nothing to play for.

Oh and excuse me if I don't start doing backflips over the Seattle win. They have been blown out on multiple occassions this year and are pretty much the Texans of the NFC. In other words, pillowy soft losers. Well I guess we should have a freaking parade because of the win. After all, its gotten us almost to the holy grail of Kubiak football. 8-8.

Kaiser Toro
12-16-2009, 08:29 AM
There are still more people supporting Kubiak than not, thats including the players, you do not want the players playing for a coach that they dont like. you guys talk about patients, you better have patients if we get a new coach cuz its going to be another few years to make some of you guys happy!

P.S. I voted YES!

We are beyond patients, we are going to need more body bags.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_femhrxbNtS0/SpZwXFWl8oI/AAAAAAAABP0/8nV_n8t4Oww/s400/Trautman.jpg

BIG TORO
12-16-2009, 08:29 AM
Patients? The Texans have several on the injured list. What we need around here is more patience. LOL

lol thanks thorn!

BIG TORO
12-16-2009, 08:29 AM
why is it that the Kubiak supporters all have the relative intellgence of a lump of coal? is it a coincidence?

me thinks not

I got your lump of coal!

Thorn
12-16-2009, 08:30 AM
why is it that the Kubiak supporters all have the relative intellgence of a lump of coal? is it a coincidence?

me thinks not

attack the post, not the poster.

It's not just a rule, it's the right thing to do.

MannyFresh
12-16-2009, 08:31 AM
why is it that the Kubiak supporters all have the relative intellgence of a lump of coal? is it a coincidence?

me thinks not

Thanks for the laugh...rep for you.

PS. I voted NO

HoustonFrog
12-16-2009, 08:37 AM
There are still more people supporting Kubiak than not, thats including the players, you do not want the players playing for a coach that they dont like. you guys talk about patience, you better have patience if we get a new coach cuz its going to be another few years to make some of you guys happy!

P.S. I voted YES!

I'm so tired of hearing this b.s. So the players have loved playing for Kubiak for 4 years and what has that gotten them? They don't seem to step up for a coach they like. You don't coach to have buddies. You coach to get respect and win. Players cussed Jimmy Johnson. Did you hear the stories about him on planes after wins?He would tear apart guys who fumbled and who made dumb mistakes. He didn't care about them liking him, just getting them in position to win. They didn't want to lose their jobs so they played hard. It doesn't take having a BFF at coach to win. See Landry, see Knoll, see Coughlin, see Belichick, etc, etc.

BIG TORO
12-16-2009, 08:44 AM
I'm so tired of hearing this b.s. So the players have loved playing for Kubiak for 4 years and what has that gotten them? They don't seem to step up for a coach they like. You don't coach to have buddies. You coach to get respect and win. Players cussed Jimmy Johnson. Did you hear the stories about him on planes after wins?He would tear apart guys who fumbled and who made dumb mistakes. He didn't care about them liking him, just getting them in position to win. They didn't want to lose their jobs so they played hard. It doesn't take having a BFF at coach to win. See Landry, see Knoll, see Coughlin, see Belichick, etc, etc.

But dont you think it helps!

HoustonFrog
12-16-2009, 08:57 AM
But dont you think it helps!

No, I think being a good coach helps and getting your team prepared to play for a full game. Making adjustments help. Having the right personnel in certain sitautions helps. Players liking a coach is nothing. Tom Coughlin almost got fired mid-season because his players thought he was an a-hole and too tough. They then won the SB. Bill Bilicheck isn't warm and fuzzy. The most successful ones are ones like Parcells. Guys that you are afraid to mess up under because you want their approval and you want to work hard to show them what you have. They know/knew how to press buttons. They also have players that would knock down a wall for them because he treats them like men, not kids or best friends. They may think Gary is a great guy but there is no accountability.

Grams
12-16-2009, 09:21 AM
No, I think being a good coach helps and getting your team prepared to play for a full game. Making adjustments help. Having the right personnel in certain sitautions helps. Players liking a coach is nothing. Tom Coughlin almost got fired mid-season because his players thought he was an a-hole and too tough. They then won the SB. Bill Bilicheck isn't warm and fuzzy. The most successful ones are ones like Parcells. Guys that you are afraid to mess up under because you want their approval and you want to work hard to show them what you have. They know/knew how to press buttons. They also have players that would knock down a wall for them because he treats them like men, not kids or best friends. They may think Gary is a great guy but there is no accountability.

Who's to say the next coach will be this guy?

Let's all agree to disagree.

The pink soapers are not going to convince the one-more-yearers and the one-more yearers are not going to convince the pink soapers. It seems that people are getting angry that the other side does not agree with them.

None of us have any control over who the coach is of the Texans or who will be the coach of the Texans next year. None of us know what kind of coach a new coach will be. They could hire a new coach that is worst than Kubiak but we won't know that till after it is done. They could also hire a coach that is fantastic and takes us to the SB. Kubiak might be the coach next year that takes us to the playoffs and SB. No one know right now what will happen next year and getting angry with those that do not agree with your point of view only creates hard feeling among us fans here.

Let's all take a chill and a deep breath and remember that not every one has the same point of view and that's ok. It would be pretty boring if everyone though exactly the same.

Sooner or later one side of this debate will be proven right.

GP
12-16-2009, 09:35 AM
A lot of people fail to see the bigger picture.

We get a win over a lousy team, and suddenly things look a lot better to people.

But the proof is in the pudding: When Kubiak faces a divisional rival, he is getting out-coached by a mile. This division's coaches have been onto Kubiak over the past 3 years, meaning he hasn't evolved as a coach.

I guess one day we're all going to wake up and this team will have magically found a way to radically reverse it's consistently charted course it's on?

The first two years, everyone wonders if a pattern continues (Could it be, we ask ourselves, that the players just are not comfortable in the system yet?).

After another two years, when the pattern continues in the same freaking fashion as the previous two years, most people reach a point where they have to confront the possibility that the coach is/isn't doing some things that is holding the team back.

At this point, as it was with the David Carr extended season (about half-way through that season), it is purely delusional for anyone to try and convince themselves that this ship's captain is going to alter his pattern.

He's trying to save his job, rather than having the mentality of a coach who is hell-bent on winning a title. That's two VERRRRY different mindsets. One mindset says "I'm going to dismantle my opponent. They won't know what hit them." The other mindset says "We're going to do what we do. And take as little chances as possible."

It's depressing to sit here and be able to remember the David Carr extended season, yet so many people don't see the direct correlation to the head coach situation we have right now.

HoustonFrog
12-16-2009, 09:36 AM
Who's to say the next coach will be this guy?

Let's all agree to disagree.

The pink soapers are not going to convince the one-more-yearers and the one-more yearers are not going to convince the pink soapers. It seems that people are getting angry that the other side does not agree with them.

None of us have any control over who the coach is of the Texans or who will be the coach of the Texans next year. None of us know what kind of coach a new coach will be. They could hire a new coach that is worst than Kubiak but we won't know that till after it is done. They could also hire a coach that is fantastic and takes us to the SB. Kubiak might be the coach next year that takes us to the playoffs and SB. No one know right now what will happen next year and getting angry with those that do not agree with your point of view only creates hard feeling among us fans here.

Let's all take a chill and a deep breath and remember that not every one has the same point of view and that's ok. It would be pretty boring if everyone though exactly the same.

Sooner or later one side of this debate will be proven right.

I'm not angry. It is just a FACT that coaches don't have to be liked to do well. It isn't a real argument. That is all. I know everyone is set in their corners. I just think this argument has no legs.

HoustonFrog
12-16-2009, 09:37 AM
A lot of people fail to see the bigger picture.

We get a win over a lousy team, and suddenly things look a lot better to people.

But the proof is in the pudding: When Kubiak faces a divisional rival, he is getting out-coached by a mile. This division's coaches have been onto Kubiak over the past 3 years, meaning he hasn't evolved as a coach.

I guess one day we're all going to wake up and this team will have magically found a way to radically reverse it's consistently charted course it's on?

The first two years, everyone wonders if a pattern continues (Could it be, we ask ourselves, that the players just are not comfortable in the system yet?).

After another two years, when the pattern continues in the same freaking fashion as the previous two years, most people reach a point where they have to confront the possibility that the coach is/isn't doing some things that is holding the team back.

At this point, as it was with the David Carr extended season (about half-way through that season), it is purely delusional for anyone to try and convince themselves that this ship's captain is going to alter his pattern.

He's trying to save his job, rather than having the mentality of a coach who is hell-bent on winning a title. That's two VERRRRY different mindsets. One mindset says "I'm going to dismantle my opponent. They won't know what hit them." The other mindset says "We're going to do what we do. And take as little chances as possible."

It's depressing to sit here and be able to remember the David Carr extended season, yet so many people don't see the direct correlation to the head coach situation we have right now.

Thus my Carr/Kubes thread. It is a nice correlation GP. I agree completely.

GP
12-16-2009, 09:42 AM
The biggest smoke-and-mirror job is that Gary Kubiak has convinced Bob McNair that the Texans exist in a vacuum.

Gary designs his offense to use scripted plays and follow the course no matter what the opposing defense is doing to counter it. It's why he doesn't allow his QBs to audible: Because the QB will call the play, and the play will work (that's the height of arrogance, IMO).

In Kubiak's world, the Texans are playing golf. In golf, you're really playing the course and not your opponent. If you can stay disciplined, and focus on what YOU can do, then things will line up very well.

Gary Kubiak does not measure his team in relation to what is going on with other teams. I don't even think he measures his team based on its record, to be honest. I think he has an image in his mind of what this team should look like, and that he is just building his team until it can run plays perfectly like a robot.

So, Bob McNair might be buying into this whole idea that nothing around us matters. The Texans have constructed their own universe in which they exist, and so the big question for Kubiak and McNair is this: Did we improve, overall, and are moving towards what we envisioned we would look like.

And the problem with that is this: That sort of outlook is very subjective, and a very persuasive coach can paint a very beautiful scene that really doesn't exist.

This owner, and this coach, IMO, is a match made in heaven for one another.

Grams
12-16-2009, 10:14 AM
I'm not angry. It is just a FACT that coaches don't have to be liked to do well. It isn't a real argument. That is all. I know everyone is set in their corners. I just think this argument has no legs.

I agree coaches do not have to be well liked. Some very successful ones were not "Mr. Personallity".

houstonspartan
12-16-2009, 10:16 AM
I'm so tired of hearing this b.s. So the players have loved playing for Kubiak for 4 years and what has that gotten them? They don't seem to step up for a coach they like. You don't coach to have buddies. You coach to get respect and win. Players cussed Jimmy Johnson. Did you hear the stories about him on planes after wins?He would tear apart guys who fumbled and who made dumb mistakes. He didn't care about them liking him, just getting them in position to win. They didn't want to lose their jobs so they played hard. It doesn't take having a BFF at coach to win. See Landry, see Knoll, see Coughlin, see Belichick, etc, etc.

Frog, I just finished reading "Boys will be boys." It's an outstanding sports book about the Cowboys dynasty of the 90s and how it fell apart. Those airplane scenes with Jimmy Johnson were in the book, and I was astonished at how he talked to players.

Jimmy did not play around. He yelled at one player for falling asleep in a meeting, even though the player fell asleep because he had a new baby and he and his wife were up all night trying to get the baby to fall asleep. Jimmy didn't care.

I can tell you right now, Jimmy would have cut Jacoby, Dunta for his pay me shenanagins, Kris Brown, Chris Brown and probably Studdard.

JB
12-16-2009, 10:18 AM
Frog, I just finished reading "Boys will be boys." It's an outstanding sports book about the Cowboys dynasty of the 90s and how it fell apart. Those airplane scenes with Jimmy Johnson were in the book, and I was astonished at how he talked to players.

Jimmy did not play around. He yelled at one player for falling asleep in a meeting, even though the player fell asleep because he had a new baby and he and his wife were up all night trying to get the baby to fall asleep. Jimmy didn't care.

I can tell you right now, Jimmy would have cut Jacoby, Dunta for his pay me shenanagins, Kris Brown, Chris Brown and probably Studdard.

Why Studdard? What did he do?

HoustonFrog
12-16-2009, 10:20 AM
Frog, I just finished reading "Boys will be boys." It's an outstanding sports book about the Cowboys dynasty of the 90s and how it fell apart. Those airplane scenes with Jimmy Johnson were in the book, and I was astonished at how he talked to players.

Jimmy did not play around. He yelled at one player for falling asleep in a meeting, even though the player fell asleep because he had a new baby and he and his wife were up all night trying to get the baby to fall asleep. Jimmy didn't care.

I can tell you right now, Jimmy would have cut Jacoby, Dunta for his pay me shenanagins, Kris Brown, Chris Brown and probably Studdard.

Yeah I had read some of it. He would drink his Heinekins on the plane and then rip players for laughing after losses....or wins, depending on how they played. In the one SB year he cut Emmitts back-up. Curvin Richards for fumbling in a meaningless Game 16.

The bolded above is so true and one I've talked about. Not many top coaches would have players willing to write on their shoes and feel safe.

houstonspartan
12-16-2009, 10:23 AM
why is it that the Kubiak supporters on this board all have the relative intellgence of a lump of coal? coincidence?

me thinks not

of course the players support Kubiak. he runs a Club Med operation and takes all the blame. they know that if another coach comes in here its gonna get a lot tougher....and you know what? It NEEDS to get a lot tougher. Kubiak is just a big softie aww shucks good ole boy loser who is, by definition, a 4 year proven loser. He IS a loser. You can not argue that. Its a fact.

Look at what happens when the guy actually tries to coach and calls out players weak effort (Mario comes to mind). The team goes out and plays well. You don't wait till the season is over to get in players faces and to get them to play up to their talent level. You do that Weeks 1-17 and into the playoffs. We cant have a coach that doesn't start coaching and doing his job until the season is over and there is nothing to play for.
Oh and excuse me if I don't start doing backflips over the Seattle win. They have been blown out on multiple occassions this year and are pretty much the Texans of the NFC. In other words, pillowy soft losers. Well I guess we should have a freaking parade because of the win. After all, its gotten us almost to the holy grail of Kubiak football. 8-8.

You are correct. Mario stated that Kubiak sat him down earlier in the week and told him point blank that he was going to have to play better.

Guess what happened? Two sacks for Mario.

Case closed.

Silver Oak
12-16-2009, 11:35 AM
why is it that the Kubiak supporters on this board all have the relative intellgence of a lump of coal? coincidence?

me thinks not



opinions differ, but seriously...why the personal attacks? feeling 4th grade-ish today?

HoustonFrog
12-16-2009, 11:35 AM
Funny, this column says some things about coaches, including Kubes...the thing on Zorn could be wriiten for Kubes and it would make no difference

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/12665936/coaching-diagnoses-survival-chances-of-eight-on-edge

Redskins have come to life -- looking the last four weeks like the team we thought they could be. They should've beaten Dallas. They should've beaten Philadelphia. They should've beaten New Orleans. But they didn't, and that's why the countdown has begun on Jim Zorn. Bad teams find ways to lose, and the Redskins blew fourth-quarter leads in all three of those games.

But give the guy this: He has his club playing hard, with Washington now a difficult out on anybody's schedule. I feel for Zorn. Good quarterback. Good man. Good assistant coach. Not so good head coach

Gary Kubiak, Houston: The Texans were supposed to be a playoff team, and they sure looked like one when they destroyed Seattle last Sunday. Only it might have been one week too late. Remember when they played Jacksonville Dec. 6? And remember what owner Bob McNair said before that game? I do. He said he considered it a "must-win" if the Texans were going to make the playoffs. He also said he "wanted to have a winning team" while pledging allegiance to Kubiak. Great. Only Houston lost the "must-win" game, and the Texans are within a loss of another non-winning season -- which would make it four straight for Kubiak.

I know they've had close calls, but they had undefeated Indianapolis down 17-0 and blew it ... at home, no less. Personally, I think that finished Kubiak. Of course, then they lost to Jacksonville, and dropping four straight within your division (they lost to Tennessee and Indianapolis earlier) is not how you restore the faith of your employer. McNair is a fair man, and Kubiak has had a fair chance. But if he can't get the Texans winning after four years, why should McNair -- or any Texans fan -- believe it can ever happen

Guess he hasn't met half the Texans fans here

Texecutioner
12-16-2009, 11:44 AM
Sooner or later one side of this debate will be proven right.

That is what people like you don't get. You've already been proven WRONG.

Joe Texan
12-16-2009, 11:44 AM
I tell you what if your panties get ruffled cause you dropped your pink soap or cause you want to drop your pink soap I cannot help you get a therapist. You carry the "pink" soap so to me it looks a little odd thats all. I would be carrying Black Soap if I was to carry a Soap bar but now I am satisfied with what Gary Kubiak has done and look foreward to the improvements he will add next year. There is not one tear from your fire Gary cry fest that would even attempt to change my views. So if you need a tissue or maybe some KY jelly (pink soap) then head to Walgreens. I will stay a Texan Fan and enjoy this season as I have done each and every season since 2002.

As far as you (pink Soap) ladies getting all bloated cause of what I said, Take a breath and see that I am only giving you my side of the argument. It is not a hair pulling eye scratching fight like I am sure yall want but it is funny to see how I am the mindless child while I am forced to read Daddies BS.

mussop
12-16-2009, 11:46 AM
Kubes has gained the lead back, he's now ahead 70-65! LOL

Its amazing what a win against a really bad team will do for this fanbase.

There are still more people supporting Kubiak than not, thats including the players, you do not want the players playing for a coach that they dont like. you guys talk about patience, you better have patience if we get a new coach cuz its going to be another few years to make some of you guys happy!
P.S. I voted YES!

I dont think so. A good coach should be able to come in here and have this team winning right away. There are many example of less talented teams performing better than we are with a first year head coach.

badboy
12-16-2009, 11:47 AM
Great Post Joe!

I agree we are at the front door. We just have not kicked it in!

We WILL!Good to hear from you Bum. Say Hey to Earl & Dan for me.

mussop
12-16-2009, 11:49 AM
I tell you what if your panties get ruffled cause you dropped your pink soap or cause you want to drop your pink soap I cannot help you get a therapist. You carry the "pink" soap so to me it looks a little odd thats all. I would be carrying Black Soap if I was to carry a Soap bar but now I am satisfied with what Gary Kubiak has done and look foreward to the improvements he will add next year. There is not one tear from your fire Gary cry fest that would even attempt to change my views. So if you need a tissue or maybe some KY jelly (pink soap) then head to Walgreens. I will stay a Texan Fan and enjoy this season as I have done each and every season since 2002.

As far as you (pink Soap) ladies getting all bloated cause of what I said, Take a breath and see that I am only giving you my side of the argument. It is not a hair pulling eye scratching fight like I am sure yall want but it is funny to see how I am the mindless child while I am forced to read Daddies BS.

Trust me Pom Poms after seeing your avatar I wouldnt drop any soap around you!

Texecutioner
12-16-2009, 11:50 AM
you guys talk about patience, you better have patience if we get a new coach cuz its going to be another few years to make some of you guys happy!



I am really sick of hearing this line of BS. It's going to take another few years if you hire a new HC. It's like some of the people that post on here and say stuff like this haven't ever watched the NFL before. There have been so many teams that got turned around within one year of a new HC being there even when their entire systems have changed. It happens all of the time, but some of you hold onto this ridiculous fear factor that a new HC means 3 years of rebuilding and restructuring an entire franchise and simply expect this disaster scenario without one valid reason for that.

GlassHalfFull
12-16-2009, 11:51 AM
Who's to say the next coach will be this guy?

Let's all agree to disagree.

The pink soapers are not going to convince the one-more-yearers and the one-more yearers are not going to convince the pink soapers. It seems that people are getting angry that the other side does not agree with them.

None of us have any control over who the coach is of the Texans or who will be the coach of the Texans next year. None of us know what kind of coach a new coach will be. They could hire a new coach that is worst than Kubiak but we won't know that till after it is done. They could also hire a coach that is fantastic and takes us to the SB. Kubiak might be the coach next year that takes us to the playoffs and SB. No one know right now what will happen next year and getting angry with those that do not agree with your point of view only creates hard feeling among us fans here.

Let's all take a chill and a deep breath and remember that not every one has the same point of view and that's ok. It would be pretty boring if everyone though exactly the same.

Sooner or later one side of this debate will be proven right.

That is what people like you don't get. You've already been proven WRONG.

I have read this thread with increasing disgust. I came across Grams post and thought that she was the only one saying what I was thinking.

Why would you pick out this one line and dump on her?

I prefer to pick out the bolded part and applaud her.

WWJD
12-16-2009, 11:52 AM
I tell you what if your panties get ruffled cause you dropped your pink soap or cause you want to drop your pink soap I cannot help you get a therapist. You carry the "pink" soap so to me it looks a little odd thats all. I would be carrying Black Soap if I was to carry a Soap bar but now I am satisfied with what Gary Kubiak has done and look foreward to the improvements he will add next year. There is not one tear from your fire Gary cry fest that would even attempt to change my views. So if you need a tissue or maybe some KY jelly (pink soap) then head to Walgreens. I will stay a Texan Fan and enjoy this season as I have done each and every season since 2002.

As far as you (pink Soap) ladies getting all bloated cause of what I said, Take a breath and see that I am only giving you my side of the argument. It is not a hair pulling eye scratching fight like I am sure yall want but it is funny to see how I am the mindless child while I am forced to read Daddies BS.

Eh Walgreens is too expensive and crowded this time of year. I do have a CVS card so think I'll head there.

houstonspartan
12-16-2009, 11:54 AM
I am really sick of hearing this line of BS. It's going to take another few years if you hire a new HC. It's like some of the people that post on here and say stuff like this haven't ever watched the NFL before. There have been so many teams that got turned around within one year of a new HC being there even when their entire systems have changed. It happens all of the time, but some of you hold onto this ridiculous fear factor that a new HC means 3 years of rebuilding and restructuring an entire franchise and simply expect this disaster scenario without one valid reason for that.

Yep. It's sad. The fear of unknown has people terrified. It's going to cripple this franchise if we let it.

Also, people forget that Gary Kubiak has never won "the big game."

EVER.

Mr. White
12-16-2009, 11:55 AM
I tell you what if your panties get ruffled cause you dropped your pink soap or cause you want to drop your pink soap I cannot help you get a therapist. You carry the "pink" soap so to me it looks a little odd thats all. I would be carrying Black Soap if I was to carry a Soap bar but now I am satisfied with what Gary Kubiak has done and look foreward to the improvements he will add next year. There is not one tear from your fire Gary cry fest that would even attempt to change my views. So if you need a tissue or maybe some KY jelly (pink soap) then head to Walgreens. I will stay a Texan Fan and enjoy this season as I have done each and every season since 2002.

As far as you (pink Soap) ladies getting all bloated cause of what I said, Take a breath and see that I am only giving you my side of the argument. It is not a hair pulling eye scratching fight like I am sure yall want but it is funny to see how I am the mindless child while I am forced to read Daddies BS.

Leave it to Troll Texan to really class up the joint.....

HoustonFrog
12-16-2009, 11:55 AM
I tell you what if your panties get ruffled cause you dropped your pink soap or cause you want to drop your pink soap I cannot help you get a therapist. You carry the "pink" soap so to me it looks a little odd thats all. I would be carrying Black Soap if I was to carry a Soap bar but now I am satisfied with what Gary Kubiak has done and look foreward to the improvements he will add next year. There is not one tear from your fire Gary cry fest that would even attempt to change my views. So if you need a tissue or maybe some KY jelly (pink soap) then head to Walgreens. I will stay a Texan Fan and enjoy this season as I have done each and every season since 2002.

As far as you (pink Soap) ladies getting all bloated cause of what I said, Take a breath and see that I am only giving you my side of the argument. It is not a hair pulling eye scratching fight like I am sure yall want but it is funny to see how I am the mindless child while I am forced to read Daddies BS.

Can I get a Joe Texan to English translator please? Classy

GP
12-16-2009, 11:56 AM
I tell you what if your panties get ruffled cause you dropped your pink soap or cause you want to drop your pink soap I cannot help you get a therapist. You carry the "pink" soap so to me it looks a little odd thats all. I would be carrying Black Soap if I was to carry a Soap bar but now I am satisfied with what Gary Kubiak has done and look foreward to the improvements he will add next year. There is not one tear from your fire Gary cry fest that would even attempt to change my views. So if you need a tissue or maybe some KY jelly (pink soap) then head to Walgreens. I will stay a Texan Fan and enjoy this season as I have done each and every season since 2002.

As far as you (pink Soap) ladies getting all bloated cause of what I said, Take a breath and see that I am only giving you my side of the argument. It is not a hair pulling eye scratching fight like I am sure yall want but it is funny to see how I am the mindless child while I am forced to read Daddies BS.

Yes, we all can't wait to see what grand things Kubiak has planned for us.

I'm sure it will be radically different than the previous 4 seasons.

Players will still be called out for not executing the brilliant gameplan of Lord Kubiak.

Kubiak will deflect blame in his press conferences, looking like such a great gentleman for assuming the proper position after somehow not sealing a game he should have won.

There will be "Win one for the Gipper!" speeches every few games.

I just can't wait until kickoff 2010. How will I sleep until then?

Thorn
12-16-2009, 11:59 AM
Leave it to Troll Texan to really class up the joint.....

There have been folks from both sides of the issue acting a tad harsh.

Actually, it's almost getting amusing now. :spin:

infantrycak
12-16-2009, 12:04 PM
Also, people forget that Gary Kubiak has never won "the big game."

EVER.

Huh? - dude is sporting three Super Bowl rings - one as QB coach and two as OC.

mussop
12-16-2009, 12:05 PM
There have been folks from both sides of the issue acting a tad harsh.

Actually, it's almost getting amusing now. :spin:

I know Im enjoying it! :ahhaha:

houstonspartan
12-16-2009, 12:05 PM
I think the unspoken issue in this debate is Gary's personality. The people who want him back love his personality, and assume that the people who do not want him back hate him personally. That's not true at all. Gary is a great guy. I would trust him with the keys to my house and my ATM pin number.

I love Kubes.

But not as my Head Football Coach.

It's like how you treat anyone else in your life. You trust certain people with certain things more so than others. Everyone has strengths and weaknesses. I would give Kubes my ATM Pin number (and, seriously, I would) but wouldn't give them to a shady cousin I have. My cousin is great in other ways, not so great in others.

Get it? No one is knocking kubiak. We are simply saying his Head Coaching abilities are limited.

GP
12-16-2009, 12:05 PM
Can I get a Joe Texan to English translator please? Classy

I tell you what if your panties get ruffled (If you are mad) cause you dropped your pink soap (we are gay for saying Kubiak should be fired) or cause you want to drop your pink soap (because you're still gay, after all) I cannot help you get a therapist (1 bottle of whiskey). You carry the "pink" soap (you be a gay boy! LOL! Gay, gay, gay!) so to me it looks a little odd thats all. I would be carrying Black Soap (because I am not gay, though I mention it all...which seems weird) if I was to carry a Soap bar but now I am satisfied with what Gary Kubiak has done and look foreward (the ward that's in front) to the improvements he will add next year. There is not one tear from your fire Gary cry fest (I wanted to say "Gay Fest" but it would look like I might be gay myself) that would even attempt to change my views. So if you need a tissue or maybe some KY jelly (pink soap) (Anal sex) then head to Walgreens. I will stay a Texan Fan and enjoy this season as I have done each and every season since 2002 (because I am a real fan, and you guys are not).

As far as you (pink Soap) ladies (Ok, now we're not gay men. We've been elevated to being called 'ladies'...) getting all bloated cause of what I said, Take a breath and see that I am only giving you my side of the argument. It is not a hair pulling eye scratching fight (like one of Joe's family reunions) like I am sure yall want but it is funny to see how I am the mindless child (reverse psychology attempt) while I am forced to read Daddies BS (I got nothin' for this one).

---------------

I think I will begin typing my posts in pink now.

mussop
12-16-2009, 12:07 PM
Huh? - dude is sporting three Super Bowl Rings - one as QB coach and two as OC.

Surely your being sarcastic? Obviously he meant as Texans HC.

houstonspartan
12-16-2009, 12:07 PM
Huh? - dude is sporting three Super Bowl Rings - one as QB coach and two as OC.

Correction: He has never won "the big game" as a head coach.

And when I say "the big game" I don't mean the Super Bowl. I mean the important, must win games that every team has every single season.

When you learn in the Spring that you have a Monday Night game, at home, against your biggest rivals, that qualifies as "the big game." When you want revenge against a team that beat you only a few weeks before, that qualifies as "the big game."

GP
12-16-2009, 12:11 PM
I think the unspoken issue in this debate is Gary's personality. The people who want him back love his personality, and assume that the people who do not want him back hate him personally. That's not true at all. Gary is a great guy. I would trust him with the keys to my house and my ATM pin number.

I love Kubes.

But not as my Head Football Coach.

It's like how you treat anyone else in your life. You trust certain people with certain things more so than others. Everyone has strengths and weaknesses. I would give Kubes my ATM Pin number (and, seriously, I would) but wouldn't give them to a shady cousin I have. My cousin is great in other ways, not so great in others.

Get it? No one is knocking kubiak. We are simply saying his Head Coaching abilities are limited.

I think a lot of it is due to how the offense has improved from when it was Dom Capers' team.

People are afraid that things might get worse if we quit on Gary now.

It's understandable. I was at that point this summer, but this season has been a revealing season for me. I think Kyle can remain as OC, Bush as DC, and just get a good HEAD COACH who knows how to scheme and strategize against every opponent on the schedule.

It's not as risky as it sounds (to replace the HC).

Thorn
12-16-2009, 12:16 PM
I think a lot of it is due to how the offense has improved from when it was Dom Capers' team.

People are afraid that things might get worse if we quit on Gary now.

It's understandable. I was at that point this summer, but this season has been a revealing season for me. I think Kyle can remain as OC, Bush as DC, and just get a good HEAD COACH who knows how to scheme and strategize against every opponent on the schedule.

It's not as risky as it sounds (to replace the HC).

Bringing in a new HC but keeping your OC and DC is something that would have to be negotiated up front with your propective HC. About the only way I see for that to happen is to hire another HC who would be another newbie HC and I don't want that. I would rather have Kubiak back next year than hire another inexperienced HC.

HoustonFrog
12-16-2009, 12:18 PM
I tell you what if your panties get ruffled (If you are mad) cause you dropped your pink soap (we are gay for saying Kubiak should be fired) or cause you want to drop your pink soap (because you're still gay, after all) I cannot help you get a therapist (1 bottle of whiskey). You carry the "pink" soap (you be a gay boy! LOL! Gay, gay, gay!) so to me it looks a little odd thats all. I would be carrying Black Soap (because I am not gay, though I mention it all...which seems weird) if I was to carry a Soap bar but now I am satisfied with what Gary Kubiak has done and look foreward (the ward that's in front) to the improvements he will add next year. There is not one tear from your fire Gary cry fest (I wanted to say "Gay Fest" but it would look like I might be gay myself) that would even attempt to change my views. So if you need a tissue or maybe some KY jelly (pink soap) (Anal sex) then head to Walgreens. I will stay a Texan Fan and enjoy this season as I have done each and every season since 2002 (because I am a real fan, and you guys are not).

As far as you (pink Soap) ladies (Ok, now we're not gay men. We've been elevated to being called 'ladies'...) getting all bloated cause of what I said, Take a breath and see that I am only giving you my side of the argument. It is not a hair pulling eye scratching fight (like one of Joe's family reunions) like I am sure yall want but it is funny to see how I am the mindless child (reverse psychology attempt) while I am forced to read Daddies BS (I got nothin' for this one).

---------------

I think I will begin typing my posts in pink now.

LOL..repped. Thanks

infantrycak
12-16-2009, 12:18 PM
Correction: He has never won "the big game" as a head coach.

And when I say "the big game" I don't mean the Super Bowl. I mean the important, must win games that every team has every single season.

When you learn in the Spring that you have a Monday Night game, at home, against your biggest rivals, that qualifies as "the big game." When you want revenge against a team that beat you only a few weeks before, that qualifies as "the big game."

Well that was the huh part, trying to understand what you meant by big game.

I think beating the Titans was a big game as well as Cinncy, but anyway.

Texecutioner
12-16-2009, 12:19 PM
I have read this thread with increasing disgust. I came across Grams post and thought that she was the only one saying what I was thinking.

Why would you pick out this one line and dump on her?

I prefer to pick out the bolded part and applaud her.

I don't see how I dumped on he/her at all. I simply responded to the statement that was made at the end because I thought it was an incorrect one that and that 4 years of going nowhere had already proven what Gary Kubiak was or wasn't. I listened to all of this same stuff last year. The same exact words from several people and it's the same ole same ole all over again after the same tired mistakes from the coaching staff. It wasn't some attack or some "dump" on the poster. If you call that "dumping" on a poster, than I must be getting dumped on in here every day when people disagree with me and quote my posts or statements, but I don't see that as the case.

HoustonFrog
12-16-2009, 12:20 PM
Bringing in a new HC but keeping your OC and DC is something that would have to be negotiated up front with your propective HC. About the only way I see for that to happen is to hire another HC who would be another newbie HC and I don't want that. I would rather have Kubiak back next year than hire another inexperienced HC.

Gruden kept Monty Kiffin when he came on in TB and it worked for that time. You can keep certain plusses and still upgrade if a new HC wanted to.

Texan_Bill
12-16-2009, 12:21 PM
I have read this thread with increasing disgust. I came across Grams post and thought that she was the only one saying what I was thinking.

Why would you pick out this one line and dump on her?

I prefer to pick out the bolded part and applaud her.

I've been disgusted with this forum (or at least a few posters) for a while now. Some of them are incapable of holding a discussion without dumping on someone who may disagree with them. I guess they think it helps get their points across. idonno:

HoustonFrog
12-16-2009, 12:26 PM
I've been disgusted with this forum (or at least a few posters) for a while now. Some of them are incapable of holding a discussion without dumping on someone who may disagree with them. I guess they think it helps get their points across. idonno:

You suck. :slapfight:

Goldensilence
12-16-2009, 12:29 PM
I think a lot of it is due to how the offense has improved from when it was Dom Capers' team.

People are afraid that things might get worse if we quit on Gary now.

It's understandable. I was at that point this summer, but this season has been a revealing season for me. I think Kyle can remain as OC, Bush as DC, and just get a good HEAD COACH who knows how to scheme and strategize against every opponent on the schedule.

It's not as risky as it sounds (to replace the HC).

I disagree about retaining Bush and Kyle. I don't think it'd work for many experienced HC. Then you have the job looking like offers from Dallas and the Raiders. I think Bush has done a decent job, but Kyle hasn't done anything to impress me that he should be an OC in this league yet.

I don't know if he's play calling or Kubiak, but either way things like picking HB throws(by Chris Brown) when you need to score doesn't strike me as something most OC would call for.

I think its also a fallacy of logic to believe that getting a new HC(especially a rookie one) means we'll have to have rookie coordinators as well.

houstonspartan
12-16-2009, 12:30 PM
Well that was the huh part, trying to understand what you meant by big game.

I think beating the Titans was a big game as well as Cinncy, but anyway.

Well, "big game" usually means some kind of high expectations beforehand. I'm not discounting the first Titan win, but I wouldn't call it a "big game." I would call it a great win that showed we had a least some energy. But let's be honest: Not many of us expected to win that game. Or at the very least we expected it to be a struggle.

The Cincy game was not a "big game." Yes, we point back to it now as the game that showed we can put together a full game of ball, but that was about it.

As I said, the second Tennesse, and both Indy games were "big games."

infantrycak
12-16-2009, 12:40 PM
The Cincy game was not a "big game." Yes, we point back to it now as the game that showed we can put together a full game of ball, but that was about it.

I consider a win over a division leader a big game, but that's me.

GlassHalfFull
12-16-2009, 12:42 PM
Who Posted?
Total Posts: 193
User Name Posts
HoustonFrog 18
mussop 15
Thorn 14
GP 10
Texan_Bill 7
Double Barrel 7
houstonspartan 7

I thought it was interesting who the top posters in this thread were. Some people have demonstrated an inability to allow others to have a difference of opinion, thoughts of their own, and insist on having the last word.

HoustonFrog
12-16-2009, 12:52 PM
Who Posted?
Total Posts: 193
User Name Posts
HoustonFrog 18
mussop 15
Thorn 14
GP 10
Texan_Bill 7
Double Barrel 7
houstonspartan 7

I thought it was interesting who the top posters in this thread were. Some people have demonstrated an inability to allow others to have a difference of opinion, thoughts of their own, and insist on having the last word.

I think that is an extremely unfair assessment. Part of debating an issue is point/counter-point. I think, besides defending myself against one attack, I've done nothing but add new material to chew on, etc. Just like the Carr debate there is going to be an even split. I realize minds won't be changed but if I feel there are point to be made or an article to share, I will. Again, a completely unfair assessment, especially considering this is the most I've posted in this forum in a bit. Again, besides one guy who attacked, my comments have stuck with the issue, not personal attacks. I'd rather debate with 20 posts than have 4 posts that tell people to shove pink soap in their orifices(orifi?).

Grams
12-16-2009, 12:54 PM
That is what people like you don't get. You've already been proven WRONG.

What? Proven wrong about what? I took no sides in that post. Neither for one side or another. Just too many posters are getting upset or angry that not everyone agrees with them.

Too many posters are starting to take this personal it seems.

Second Honeymoon
12-16-2009, 12:57 PM
But dont you think it helps!

no, to the contrary it is a hindrance. we need someone to whoop some arse around here and end the Club Med atmosphere that began back in 2002.

badboy
12-16-2009, 12:57 PM
Yep. It's sad. The fear of unknown has people terrified. It's going to cripple this franchise if we let it.

Also, people forget that Gary Kubiak has never won "the big game."

EVER.I thought Seattle was the big game?:kitten:

Texecutioner
12-16-2009, 01:05 PM
What? Proven wrong about what? I took no sides in that post. Neither for one side or another. Just too many posters are getting upset or angry that not everyone agrees with them.

I disagreed with Glass about "dumping" on you. I did however, go back and reread your post and realized that after everything you wrote that you weren't saying exactly what I got out of it at first and I probably skimmed through a few posts real quickly and got a little confused with what your entire message was, and my statement towards what you had said wasn't exactly warranted and for that I apologize for that mistake I made. After reading it again in it's entirety, you made a nice post.

Too many posters are starting to take this personal it seems.

That seems to happen sometimes in here. I'm not taking any disagreements personally unless someone makes it obvious that way, so I hope that you don't take anything I say personally in the future. Sometimes it's hard to distinguish stuff like that online though as oppose to talking to someone face to face where you can be disagreeing and even arguing but it's still very civil and healthy conversation. Sorry for the confusion on my part earlier though.

mussop
12-16-2009, 01:06 PM
Who Posted?
Total Posts: 193
User Name Posts
HoustonFrog 18
mussop 15
Thorn 14
GP 10
Texan_Bill 7
Double Barrel 7
houstonspartan 7

I thought it was interesting who the top posters in this thread were. Some people have demonstrated an inability to allow others to have a difference of opinion, thoughts of their own, and insist on having the last word.

Post count shows inability to allow others to have a difference of opinion, thoughts of their own, and insist on having the last word? Then what does that say about you and your 4,156 Total Posts since 08-19-2007?

Second Honeymoon
12-16-2009, 01:08 PM
Can I get a Joe Texan to English translator please? Classy

that post is from the same guy who thinks Kubiak is going to take us to a Super Bowl. why are you surprised, HF?

I give up trying to prove that Kubiak has been a failure. It's not even up for debate. he has failed and he has already proven that he is not a winning head coach even if we win the remaining 3 games.

opinions and excuses are subjective and open to interpretation. one thing is undeniable over a 4 year period. Kubiak is NOT a winning head coach in the NFL.

Period, Joe. Period. you can't argue that. Kubiak is not a winning head coach. it's a fact.

So please go away and stop acting like Kubiak is going to take us to the promised land. I could give a retarded monkey a frontal lobe lobotomy with a Swiss Army Knife while blindfolded and even then he would still know that Kubiak is a failure.

Failure, Joe. Not winning is failing and he has proven to not be a winner. Over a 4 year stretch.

But I guess Kubiak gets a free pass from you because he never had the job before? At what point does that excuse stop holding water? You were the same guy that wanted more of David Carr year after year...and you were proven wrong. Did you not learn then that maybe your loyalty blinds your ability to be objective regarding the Texans?

just a parade of ignorant posts 24/7.....par for the course I guess. Houston fans can be pretty good but some of our fans are amongst the most clueless in the country. It's like half of our fanbase is composed of Drayton McLane-types mired in myopia and showing no basis of reality.

also, why the fixation with prison rape and dropping soap? why ever mention KY jelly in a post? cmon now. you can talk about KY but I am going to talk about Kubiak's failed term as HC and how he is a proven loser and that is a fact that can not be denied. His best shot is a 9-7 record in 2009 which would give him a 64-64 record. Is that enough for you Joe? You make stupid jokes about the Cowboys failures and their fans but at least they can put together a winning season...and even then their fans and ownership knows that its probably going to take a new head coach to get somewhere.

but keep up the juvenile anal rape jokes and KY jelly comments and type the same 'soap dropper' joke for the millionth time...you come across as an illiterate buffoon. just an observation.

Grams
12-16-2009, 01:14 PM
That seems to happen sometimes in here. I'm not taking any disagreements personally unless someone makes it obvious that way, so I hope that you don't take anything I say personally in the future. Sometimes it's hard to distinguish stuff like that online though as oppose to talking to someone face to face where you can be disagreeing and even arguing but it's still very civil and healthy conversation. Sorry for the confusion on my part earlier though.

Not taken personally here. I was just confused.

You are correct that some posts written, as opposed to spoken, can and will be taken differently than what was intended.

houstonspartan
12-16-2009, 01:17 PM
I consider a win over a division leader a big game, but that's me.

Cincy is in the AFC South? That's news to me.

mussop
12-16-2009, 01:19 PM
There are only a few that get angry that not everyone agrees with them.
They make it personal and people pile on them deservingly so. Instead of pointing out post counts why dont you point out posts that reflect your opinion. I dont appreciate having my name thrown in there with people that do that.

houstonspartan
12-16-2009, 01:20 PM
that post is from the same guy who thinks Kubiak is going to take us to a Super Bowl. why are you surprised, HF?

I give up trying to prove that Kubiak has been a failure. It's not even up for debate. he has failed and he has already proven that he is not a winning head coach even if we win the remaining 3 games.

opinions and excuses are subjective and open to interpretation. one thing is undeniable over a 4 year period. Kubiak is NOT a winning head coach in the NFL.

Period, Joe. Period. you can't argue that. Kubiak is not a winning head coach. it's a fact.

So please go away and stop acting like Kubiak is going to take us to the promised land. I could give a retarded monkey a frontal lobe lobotomy with a Swiss Army Knife while blindfolded and even then he would still know that Kubiak is a failure.

Failure, Joe. Not winning is failing and he has proven to not be a winner. Over a 4 year stretch.

But I guess Kubiak gets a free pass from you because he never had the job before? At what point does that excuse stop holding water? You were the same guy that wanted more of David Carr year after year...and you were proven wrong. Did you not learn that maybe you don't know crap about football and are a blind homer?

just a parade of ignorant posts 24/7.....par for the course I guess. Houston fans can be pretty good but some of our fans are amongst the most clueless in the country.

also, why the fixation with prison rape and dropping soap? why ever mention KY jelly in a post? cmon now. you can talk about KY but I am going to talk about Kubiak's failed term as HC and how he is a proven loser and that is a fact that can not be denied. His best shot is a 9-7 record in 2009 which would give him a 64-64 record. Is that enough for you Joe? You make stupid jokes about the Cowboys failures but at least they can put together a winning season...and even then their fans and ownership knows that its probably going to take a new head coach to get over the hump.

but keep up the juvenile anal rape jokes and KY jelly....you come across as an illiterate buffoon.

Dude, just stop. You're wasting your time. I had the same problem last week with a few people. I pointed out that those who wanted Kubiak gone were arguing FACTS.

His response was something like, "Well, you don't know for a fact that he won't be a good coach next year."

That was all I needed to hear. You're talking to brick walls. Don't waste your breath.

Grams
12-16-2009, 01:21 PM
There are only a few that get angry that not everyone agrees with them.
They make it personal and people pile on them deservingly so. Instead of pointing out post counts why dont you point out posts that reflect your opinion. I dont appreciate having my name thrown in there with people that do that.

I don't believe that was me that did that.

mussop
12-16-2009, 01:23 PM
I don't believe that was me that did that.

My bad I that post was meant for glasshalffull.

infantrycak
12-16-2009, 01:24 PM
Cincy is in the AFC South? That's news to me.

Don't be nonsensical. I said exactly what I meant - Cincy is a division leader (and has twice beat last year's SB winner). I consider that a big game. You don't have to obviously. Big games are not restricted to division games.

Thorn
12-16-2009, 01:25 PM
Not taken personally here. I was just confused.

You are correct that some posts written, as opposed to spoken, can and will be taken differently than what was intended.

BS. Let's just say it like it should be. All of yall can kiss my butt. I'm right, and yall are ALL wrong, everyone of you. Only I'm right. That's just the way it is. :)




:lol:

Texan_Bill
12-16-2009, 01:25 PM
Who Posted?
Total Posts: 193
User Name Posts
HoustonFrog 18
mussop 15
Thorn 14
GP 10
Texan_Bill 7
Double Barrel 7
houstonspartan 7

I thought it was interesting who the top posters in this thread were. Some people have demonstrated an inability to allow others to have a difference of opinion, thoughts of their own, and insist on having the last word.


Post whores!! :runaway:

Second Honeymoon
12-16-2009, 01:27 PM
Dude, just stop. You're wasting your time. I had the same problem last week with a few people. I pointed out that those who wanted Kubiak gone were arguing FACTS.

His response was something like, "Well, you don't know for a fact that he won't be a good coach next year."

That was all I needed to hear. You're talking to brick walls. Don't waste your breath.

i know, man. i guess i am just a sucker for a good argument.

maybe i should go to the Argument Clinic instead of arguing with people who possess the intelligence of a rock.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/85/Argument_Clinic.png/300px-Argument_Clinic.png

houstonspartan
12-16-2009, 01:27 PM
Don't be nonsensical. I said exactly what I meant - Cincy is a division leader (and has twice beat last year's SB winner). I consider that a big game. You don't have to obviously. Big games are not restricted to division games.

Of course big games aren't restricted to the division. But are you telling me you were just itching for the Cincy game all year and couldn't wait to get to it?

The Cincy game was big IN HINDSIGHT because it showed that we could play for a full 60. But, prior to the game, it was just another "oh, what are the Texans going to do THIS week" kind of game.

BIG TORO
12-16-2009, 01:27 PM
Its nice to see everyones blood boiling!!!! this is fun weeeeeeeee!:spin:

Texan_Bill
12-16-2009, 01:28 PM
Post count shows inability to allow others to have a difference of opinion, thoughts of their own, and insist on having the last word? Then what does that say about you and your 4,156 Total Posts since 08-19-2007?

It says that she averages 4.89 posts per day. :kitten:

powerfuldragon
12-16-2009, 01:28 PM
the quality of the arguments in this thread warrants its placement in the no spin zone.

Texan_Bill
12-16-2009, 01:30 PM
the quality of the arguments in this thread warrants its placement in the no spin zone.

Disagree with ya PD. These folks are amateurs in comparison. :butterfly:

mussop
12-16-2009, 01:31 PM
Its nice to see everyones blood boiling!!!! this is fun weeeeeeeee!:spin:

Just think how it will be if Kubiak is here next year and we get off to a slow starts. :slapfight:

houstonspartan
12-16-2009, 01:32 PM
i know, man. i guess i am just a sucker for a good argument.

maybe i should go to the Argument Clinic instead of arguing with people with the intelligence of a rock.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/85/Argument_Clinic.png/300px-Argument_Clinic.png


Yeah.

I was talking with someone about next year's potential record if Kubiak returns. I gave them an honest assesment of what I thought would happen.

You have six division games, which means six losses right off the bat. Ok, they may pull out one win. So that's five division losses. Then, we have the NFC East coming in, which are tough teams, so that's at least another two losses.

That's seven losses.

Then, we always manage to bungle another loss or two here and there.

That's eight losses next year. At least.

My scenario is a guess, but it's an educated guess based on Kubiaks past performance. It a baseline from which to infer events.

This person's response when I said all of this: "Dude, are you even a Texans fan?"

Clueless. Sometimes, you just have to stop wasting your breath.

BIG TORO
12-16-2009, 01:33 PM
Just think how it will be if Kubiak is here next year and we get off to a slow starts. :slapfight:

Hell yea then were in for a party well have to set up a ring in the parking lot and settle it mano y mano!!!!!!!!!

mussop
12-16-2009, 01:34 PM
It says that she averages 4.89 posts per day. :kitten:

Man her inability to allow others to have a difference of opinion, thoughts of their own, and insistence on having the last word is amazing. :pop:

houstonspartan
12-16-2009, 01:34 PM
Just think how it will be if Kubiak is here next year and we get off to a slow starts. :slapfight:

On the real, if we get off to a slow start next year, I think McNair would fire Kubiak during the season. He would have no choice.

badboy
12-16-2009, 01:34 PM
that post is from the same guy who thinks Kubiak is going to take us to a Super Bowl. why are you surprised, HF?

I give up trying to prove that Kubiak has been a failure. It's not even up for debate. he has failed and he has already proven that he is not a winning head coach even if we win the remaining 3 games.

opinions and excuses are subjective and open to interpretation. one thing is undeniable over a 4 year period. Kubiak is NOT a winning head coach in the NFL.

Period, Joe. Period. you can't argue that. Kubiak is not a winning head coach. it's a fact.

So please go away and stop acting like Kubiak is going to take us to the promised land. I could give a retarded monkey a frontal lobe lobotomy with a Swiss Army Knife while blindfolded and even then he would still know that Kubiak is a failure.

Failure, Joe. Not winning is failing and he has proven to not be a winner. Over a 4 year stretch.
But I guess Kubiak gets a free pass from you because he never had the job before? At what point does that excuse stop holding water? You were the same guy that wanted more of David Carr year after year...and you were proven wrong. Did you not learn then that maybe your loyalty blinds your ability to be objective regarding the Texans?

just a parade of ignorant posts 24/7.....par for the course I guess. Houston fans can be pretty good but some of our fans are amongst the most clueless in the country. It's like half of our fanbase is composed of Drayton McLane-types mired in myopia and showing no basis of reality.

also, why the fixation with prison rape and dropping soap? why ever mention KY jelly in a post? cmon now. you can talk about KY but I am going to talk about Kubiak's failed term as HC and how he is a proven loser and that is a fact that can not be denied. His best shot is a 9-7 record in 2009 which would give him a 64-64 record. Is that enough for you Joe? You make stupid jokes about the Cowboys failures and their fans but at least they can put together a winning season...and even then their fans and ownership knows that its probably going to take a new head coach to get somewhere.

but keep up the juvenile anal rape jokes and KY jelly comments and type the same 'soap dropper' joke for the millionth time...you come across as an illiterate buffoon. just an observation.Has there ever been a coach that "failed for four years" and then did pretty well? http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/LandTo0.htm because this guy comes to mind.

houstonspartan
12-16-2009, 01:35 PM
Has there ever been a coach that "failed for four years" and then did pretty well? http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/LandTo0.htm because this guy comes to mind.

Good gobbly, are people STLL making Tom Landry references?

Wow.

Let's just give Kubiak a 30-year contract and call it a day already.

mussop
12-16-2009, 01:37 PM
On the real, if we get off to a slow start next year, I think McNair would fire Kubiak during the season. He would have no choice.

Wonder what all the people who dont want to change because of fear it will take time will think then? :pop:

Texan_Bill
12-16-2009, 01:37 PM
Hell yea then were in for a party well have to set up a ring in the parking lot and settle it mano y mano!!!!!!!!!

Ford Fairlane says: "What the **** is mano y mano?"

I'd like to see Second Honeymoon v. Joe Texan

:jk: :stirpot:

Second Honeymoon
12-16-2009, 01:39 PM
Has there ever been a coach that "failed for four years" and then did pretty well? http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/LandTo0.htm because this guy comes to mind.

dude that was almost 40 years ago and in a league of less than 20 teams and during a time where there was no Free Agency and it was not as easy to turn things around quickly.

when will people stop going to the Landry card? it is the epitome of grasping at straws.

that was 40 years ago, dude. turn the page and stop using it to support your flawed argument. and please, stop sullying Landry's good name by comparing him to a coach that has never shown anything but the ability to lose big games and is such a wuss that he can't even watch the game that he coaches. comparing Landry to Kubiak. So I guess we should have given Capers a 5th year too huh? At least Capers had an excuse. he had garbage at QB....and the same people championing Kubiak are the same people that acted like Carr was Jesus in cleats and blamed everyone but him.

Just an observation...maybe some people just are ignorant to the facts and can't see the forest through the trees.

basically when you go to the Landry card, you are saying 'Uncle' or 'Mercy'

houstonspartan
12-16-2009, 01:40 PM
Wonder what all the people who dont want to change because of fear it will take time will think then? :pop:

They'll have to deal.

Kubiak had better pray that we don't get the Dallas game early in the season next year.

noxiousdog
12-16-2009, 01:41 PM
Has there ever been a coach that "failed for four years" and then did pretty well? http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/LandTo0.htm because this guy comes to mind.

I'd dare say all of them. Still, there aren't many with a failure rate of 100% with a sample size over 4 years.

On the other hand, most people didn't look at Kubiak's year 1 and 2 as failures at the time. It's only in hindsight that they get the designation. And ironically, 10-6 was the favorite for the leading Houston based projection (Vegas set the over/under at 8-8). I'm not sure that if we get to 9-6 it can be considered super-horrendous failure if you're only 1 game off homer expectations.

Texan_Bill
12-16-2009, 01:42 PM
How about me??

Signed

7-9, 8-8, 8-8, 8-8, Jeff Fisher

BIG TORO
12-16-2009, 01:43 PM
Ford Fairlane says: "What the **** is mano y mano?"

I'd like to see Second Honeymoon v. Joe Texan

:jk: :stirpot:

You know if Texans tailgate had boxing in it, that would keep our tailgate in the #1 spot for years to come instead of Fire Kubiak soaps it would be a real texans fight club on Sunday's that would be awesome.

Texecutioner
12-16-2009, 01:44 PM
Good gobbly, are people STLL making Tom Landry references?

Wow.

Let's just give Kubiak a 30-year contract and call it a day already.

It's almost like people completely forget about the dozens of other 3,4 and 5 year failure experiments with guys like Marriuchi, Capers, Mangini, Edwards, Juaron, Campo, Turner, and so so many others who have been the major wide majority of failed tenures that ended up leaving franchises in termoil when compared to a situation like Landry and Fisher. And Landry is the most ridiculous example to try and use because that was like 30 freaking years ago in a completely different era of the NFL. It's crazy I tell ya.

Texan_Bill
12-16-2009, 01:45 PM
You know if Texans tailgate had boxing in it, that would keep our tailgate in the #1 spot for years to come instead of Fire Kubiak soaps it would be a real texans fight club on Sunday's that would be awesome.

There was a battle in Blue Crew, once.... Once. VY fan boi was left a little bloodied.

mussop
12-16-2009, 01:47 PM
Has there ever been a coach that "failed for four years" and then did pretty well? http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/LandTo0.htm because this guy comes to mind.

:choke:

Wonder if there have ever been any coaches that "failed for 4 years" and then sucked in there 5th year?

BIG TORO
12-16-2009, 01:50 PM
There was a battle in Blue Crew, once.... Once. VY fan boi was left a little bloodied.

So your saying he deserved it!:scarygirl:

mussop
12-16-2009, 01:52 PM
How about me??

Signed

7-9, 8-8, 8-8, 8-8, Jeff Fisher

Seriously Bill, serioulsy? This one has been beaten to death. There is no comparison to the situation Fisher was in to what Kubiak is in. I hope you were joking.

houstonspartan
12-16-2009, 01:52 PM
It's almost like people completely forget about the dozens of other 3,4 and 5 year failure experiments with guys like Marriuchi, Capers, Mangini, Edwards, Juaron, Campo, Turner, and so so many others who have been the major wide majority of failed tenures that ended up leaving franchises in termoil when compared to a situation like Landry and Fisher. And Landry is the most ridiculous example to try and use because that was like 30 freaking years ago in a completely different era of the NFL. It's crazy I tell ya.

Yep.

The Detroit Lions, for example, had, over a 10 year period, Steve Marriuci, Marty Morenwheig, and Rod Marinelli. Where are they now?

The Minnesota Vikings. Remember Mike Tice? I didn't think so.

Buffalo had Mike Mularkey for a few years earlier this decade. Who?

San Francisco had Dennis Erickson, that lasted for two whole years, and then Mike Nolan, that lasted for three.

And on and on. As you said, the NFL is loaded with failed two to five year experimental coaches. It happens.

Buffi2
12-16-2009, 01:52 PM
:choke:

Wonder if there have ever been any coaches that "failed for 4 years" and then sucked in there 5th year?

We just might find out.

Second Honeymoon
12-16-2009, 01:52 PM
Ford Fairlane says: "What the **** is mano y mano?"

I'd like to see Second Honeymoon v. Joe Texan

:jk: :stirpot:

ahh, if me and Joe Texan met up we would share a beer, bong, and/or beerbong and probably laugh about all of this. i will give him credit for being a loyal fan but i think we may have crossed the line between loyalty and ignorance. just my opinion.

i remember when the whole Carr Wars were going on, I openly invited people who were crusading for Carr to come sit in my section and hang out with me and my family. That offer still stands. i am sure the endzone is gonna be a bit more vacant than usual due to the fact that the season is over, so there should be room for some peeps to come down. i couldn't even give away my seats last week so there should be room.

Section 134 Row N. Nice seats and were right behind Halliburton Heroes so you get on TV if you want. Even with the newborn arriving, I hope to leave the wife and kids at home and break away for the season ending Patriots game. If you can get past the ticket lady, come on down and look for the 6'5" 280lb. white guy in the Cushing jersey. We will squash that bug and enjoy the last game of the season because its gonna be a though pill to swallow. I am seriously heartbroken that our season is about to be over. Ugh. This past offseason went pretty fast but I have a feeling this offseason is going to be a long one.

for the record, I don't think Kubiak is fired unless we lose to St.Louis or if we lose 2 of the remaning 3. sadly, I think 7-9 may even save his job. I just want McNair to try and see if Cowher is interested. Just make the call. It would be an upgrade. if he isn't and either Gruden and Schotty aren't interested, I would be willing to tempt fate and give Kubiak another year....BUT NO NEW CONTRACT. LAME DUCK ONLY.

noxiousdog
12-16-2009, 01:53 PM
How about me??

Signed

7-9, 8-8, 8-8, 8-8, Jeff Fisher

I don't know if it's a good example or not but Norv Turner has quietly turned around his career, though he will probably never get credit for it.

Coughlin went four years straight without hitting 8 wins even.

Marvin Lewis has had 9+ wins in 2 of 7 seasons.

And of course Bellichick had his first winning season in year 4, then two 5 win seasons following.

That's just current head coachs. I've been meaning to do a longer coaching project over the last two years and see what comes out of it. Maybe this will be the motivation.

badboy
12-16-2009, 01:54 PM
Good gobbly, are people STLL making Tom Landry references?

Wow.

Let's just give Kubiak a 30-year contract and call it a day already.
Yep. People will keep giving you facts that suggest a different possibility than you insist on.

mussop
12-16-2009, 01:57 PM
Yep.

The Detroit Lions, for example, had, over a 10 year period, Steve Marriuci, Marty Morenwheig, and Rod Marinelli. Where are they now?

The Minnesota Vikings. Remember Mike Tice? I didn't think so.

Buffalo had Mike Mularkey for a few years earlier this decade. Who?

San Francisco had Dennis Erickson, that lasted for two whole years, and then Mike Nolan, that lasted for three.

And on and on. As you said, the NFL is loaded with failed two to five year experimental coaches. It happens.

"There's two kinds of coaches, them that's fired and them that's gonna be fired,"

Second Honeymoon
12-16-2009, 01:58 PM
"There's two kinds of coaches, them that's fired and them that's gonna be fired,"

Bum Phillips or Carl Mauck? Bum right?

houstonspartan
12-16-2009, 02:00 PM
ahh, if me and Joe Texan met up we would share a beer, bong, and/or beerbong and probably laugh about all of this. i will give him credit for being a loyal fan but i think we may have crossed the line between loyalty and ignorance. just my opinion.

i remember when the whole Carr Wars were going on, I openly invited people who were crusading for Carr to come sit in my section and hang out with me and my family. That offer still stands. i am sure the endzone is gonna be a bit more vacant than usual due to the fact that the season is over, so there should be room for some peeps to come down. i couldn't even give away my seats last week so there should be room.

Section 134 Row N. Nice seats and were right behind Halliburton Heroes so you get on TV if you want. Even with the newborn arriving, I hope to leave the wife and kids at home and break away for the season ending Patriots game. If you can get past the ticket lady, come on down and look for the 6'5" 280lb. white guy in the Cushing jersey. We will squash that bug and enjoy the last game of the season because its gonna be a though pill to swallow. I am seriously heartbroken that our season is about to be over. Ugh. This past offseason went pretty fast but I have a feeling this offseason is going to be a long one.

for the record, I don't think Kubiak is fired unless we lose to St.Louis or if we lose 2 of the remaning 3. sadly, I think 7-9 may even save his job. I just want McNair to try and see if Cowher is interested. Just make the call. It would be an upgrade. if he isn't and either Gruden and Schotty aren't interested, I would be willing to tempt fate and give Kubiak another year....BUT NO NEW CONTRACT. LAME DUCK ONLY.


Ah, so you're a season ticket holder like I am, I see. I get why you're so angry. I feel you.

I disagree that Kubes keeps his job at 7-9. How could he? McNair has gone on record many times saying that 8-8 wasn't good enough, and that great coaches don't go 8-8.

At 7-9 he'd have to fire him.
Hell, at 8-8 he might have to as well.

Mr. White
12-16-2009, 02:05 PM
We're back to Landry and Fisher now.

This argument's gone full circle.

I guess I'm pretty close myself. Kubiak gets to keep his job if he beats the Rams. I don't like it, but 7-9 is where the bar's at this year.

mussop
12-16-2009, 02:07 PM
Yep. People will keep giving you facts that suggest a different possibility than you insist on.


Here is a fact for you.

1960 0 -11 -1
1961 4 - 9 - 1
1962 5 - 8 - 1
1963 4 - 10
1964 5 - 8 - 1
1965 7 - 7
and finally after 6 years a winning season.

1966 10 - 3 - 1

Are you suggesting we wait seven years before firing Kubiak?

Second Honeymoon
12-16-2009, 02:08 PM
Ah, so you're a season ticket holder like I am, I see. I get why you're so angry. I feel you.

I disagree that Kubes keeps his job at 7-9. How could he? McNair has gone on record many times saying that 8-8 wasn't good enough, and that great coaches don't go 8-8.

At 7-9 he'd have to fire him.
Hell, at 8-8 he might have to as well.

the last few years the only thing that has kept me on as a season ticket holder are some generous Christmas bonuses from my bosses. Without those, I would have probably had to bail in 2007. This year I should get a decent bonus again but with a newborn and a maturing 7 year old daughter, is it the right thing to do? I could spend half the money we spend on season tickets and get a huge screen TV, sunday ticket, and have Pappasito's To-Go every Sunday and still have money left over for hippie lettuce and Bud Light. What else do you need on a sunday?

i hope you are right but I don't want to fire Kubiak to somehow punish Kubiak or to punish the people still supporting him. I want an upgrade. I don't want another experiment or hotshot coordinator. I want a proven commodity that can help this team live up to expectations and play to the best of their ability.

its basically Cowher, Gruden, Schotty, or Holmgren for me. There are a few guys out there that are unproven that I wouldn't mind taking a look at, but I think we need a guy with a proven plan, good coaching connections, experience in game situations, and who has run a team before. it's a short list but why wouldn't anyone want to come here. Young team, great facilities, and one of the few local economies that aren't completely in the tank.

The only negative is we do have Peyton in our division and our OL is built a bit too much on finesse. Its already making the news that Cowher to Carolina is far from a sure thing. In fact, I don't think its a good fit. He would be setting himself up for failure. If I was Cowher, I would have either the Texans, Redskins, or Cowboys as my preferred destination. Carolina and Chicago would be much further behind.

Goldensilence
12-16-2009, 02:09 PM
We're back to Landry and Fisher now.

This argument's gone full circle.

I guess I'm pretty close myself. Kubiak gets to keep his job if he beats the Rams. I don't like it, but 7-9 is where the bar's at this year.

What?! How could you not want to keep him after big wins over the Seahawks and Rams?

:sarcasm:

HOU-TEX
12-16-2009, 02:10 PM
There was a battle in Blue Crew, once.... Once. VY fan boi was left a little bloodied.

Dadgum, I wish I would've been there.

This thread's getting a bit ridiculous, no? I think we all want what's best for the Texans and have differing opinions on what that would be. IMO, it's practically obvious Kubiak will be here next season whether we like it or not and there ain't diddly we can do about it. I can understand threads with civil discussions of what to do and why. I don't understand verbally *****-slapping each other when somebody else won't support a particular opinion that quite frankly, ain't likely going to happen either.

Just remember, we all want the same thing.

mussop
12-16-2009, 02:10 PM
I don't know if it's a good example or not but Norv Turner has quietly turned around his career, though he will probably never get credit for it.

Coughlin went four years straight without hitting 8 wins even.

Marvin Lewis has had 9+ wins in 2 of 7 seasons.

And of course Bellichick had his first winning season in year 4, then two 5 win seasons following.

That's just current head coachs. I've been meaning to do a longer coaching project over the last two years and see what comes out of it. Maybe this will be the motivation.

Are you suggesting we just ride it out with Kubiak no matter how long it takes because eventually he will become a good coach?