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View Full Version : Andre Johnson: "We Just Run What They Call"


DexmanC
12-08-2009, 05:10 PM
If you guys remember, this was the line that got Richard Smith canned when
his defensive players started using it. This is the way players express their
loss of confidence in their playcallers. If Kubiak ain't careful, he's gone.

My soap will remain up until a decision is made on him. His players verbally
express support for him, but on the field, they keep screwing up in crucial
situations.

Carr Bombed
12-08-2009, 05:25 PM
I honestly don't know why the hell Schaub isn't allowed to call audibles at the line. QBs are supposed to be a extension of their coach (especially if that coach is offensive minded) and alot of high caliber veteran QBs are given the freedom to call audibles every once in awhile. Schaub seems like a really smart guy and at this point he's a experienced veteran....I really don't understand why the man is never allowed to audible out of a play.

David freaking Carr was even allowed to audible out of plays for Christ's sake (granted he always checked down to a running play, but the man was able to change plays).

DexmanC
12-08-2009, 05:34 PM
I honestly don't know why the hell Schaub isn't allowed to call audibles at the line. QBs are supposed to be a extension of their coach (especially if that coach is offensive minded) and alot of high caliber veteran QBs are given the freedom to call audibles every once in awhile. Schaub seems like a really smart guy and at this point he's a experienced veteran....I really don't understand why the man is never allowed to audible out of a play.

David freaking Carr was even allowed to audible out of player for Christ's sake (granted he always checked down to a running play, but hte man was able to change plays).

Schaub's not allowed to audible, because Kubiak will not allow ANY decision
HE makes to be questioned. The offense is his baby, and if he signs off
on it, it's gospel. If it doesn't work, Vonta missed a block. In Kubiak's
mind, if he calls the play, it's the RIGHT play.

Imatexanfan
12-08-2009, 05:35 PM
I said this once in another thread that Kubes calls the plays, not lil shanny or even BOB....Coach freakin Kubiak thats it...what he sees goes and thats final...:dancer:

Imatexanfan
12-08-2009, 05:37 PM
Schaub's not allowed to audible, because Kubiak will not allow ANY decision
HE makes to be questioned. The offense is his baby, and if he signs off
on it, it's gospel. If it doesn't work, Vonta missed a block. In Kubiak's
mind, if he calls the play, it's the RIGHT play.

Bam! I couldn't agree more...:tiphat:

Joe Texan
12-08-2009, 05:49 PM
This has been addressed by me on the radio and Matt and Rich said they know he is able to make changes to the play but he cannot call another play which is crazy in the NFL. If your running and you got 8 in the Box wouldn't it be better to send Andre long or something. I have gone around with this but to no avail. Matt and Rich never brought it up to Kubes when it was there job to do so.

JDizzle
12-08-2009, 06:10 PM
I have heard Rich bring it up with Gary himself on his show. Kubiak says that they believe in what they have called and should be able to run it, or something like that.

Runner
12-08-2009, 06:31 PM
I have heard Rich bring it up with Gary himself on his show. Kubiak says that they believe in what they have called and should be able to run it, or something like that.

Kubes hasn't shown a lot of flexibility of thought in his tenure here.

=============

If Kubiak allows Schaub to change plays it might be successful. However, it might also be unsuccessful. I see the limitation on Schaub as further .500 thinking. It is "not playing to win" for fear of losing. As more commonly stated: playing not to lose.

============

I also think it is hard for a qb to become a leader when the coach restricts his ability to lead like this.

JDizzle
12-08-2009, 06:58 PM
Makes no sense to me either. I wonder though, how many other coaches besides Kubiak don't allow audibles to be called? I don't know of any myself but don't keep up with other teams either.

I do remember watching Mark Sanchez bark audibles in week 1 though.

Runner
12-08-2009, 07:00 PM
Makes no sense to me either. I wonder though, how many other coaches besides Kubiak don't allow audibles to be called? I don't know of any myself but don't keep up with other teams either.

I do remember watching Mark Sanchez bark audibles in week 1 though.

And I thought maybe Kubes' kidz were just too young.

Goatcheese
12-08-2009, 07:47 PM
A lot of what this offense does is to set up things they want to do later.

They hammer you on slants to set up the slant and go which has gotten us quite a few long TDs.
They run the ball whether it is working or not so they can run playaction, which had gotten us a ton of TDs.
They run a bunch of passes in a row to get teams to pin their ears back so they can set up the screen.

I would like to see Schaub have the option to audible out of a play that the defense is clearly expecting, or in good position to stop. You don't throw a bubble screen against press coverage. You don't run a bunch of deep routes against an all out blitz. etc.

He needs to atleast be able to change individual routes.

El Tejano
12-08-2009, 09:41 PM
The good teams all have an OC for a QB. I don't know why we don't get our QB to audible. Plummer used to do it in Denver.

awtysst
12-08-2009, 09:45 PM
The good teams all have an OC for a QB. I don't know why we don't get our QB to audible. Plummer used to do it in Denver.

Its more of a factor of Kubiak not really allowing Schaub to audible. I am not really sure why, he does this. Football is a game of adjustments. If the D is adjusting to you, you must adjust to them.

Silver Oak
12-08-2009, 10:11 PM
If you guys remember, this was the line that got Richard Smith canned when
his defensive players started using it. This is the way players express their
loss of confidence in their playcallers. If Kubiak ain't careful, he's gone.

My soap will remain up until a decision is made on him. His players verbally
express support for him, but on the field, they keep screwing up in crucial
situations.

your post makes zero sense.

"on the field they keep screwing up"...and yet you're unhappy with the head coach?...for what? not handling the ball correctly?

successful Brown pass=content/quiet fans
unsuccessful Brown pass=bitching and moaning on Kardashian level

l

sportfan73
12-08-2009, 10:42 PM
I love AJ, but why wont he be a diva for once and say "I'm the best WR in this league and you never throw it to me in the red zone"

DexmanC
12-08-2009, 10:50 PM
your post makes zero sense.

"on the field they keep screwing up"...and yet you're unhappy with the head coach?...for what? not handling the ball correctly?

successful Brown pass=content/quiet fans
unsuccessful Brown pass=bitching and moaning on Kardashian level

l

This team has CONSISTENTLY (over the last three seasons) found ways
to get destroyed in close games. THAT, is on coaching. It's not "occasional,"
it's CONSISTENT. Coming out FLAAAAATTTT at HOME on OPENING DAY,
and looking INEPT AS ALL HELL, falls on the coaching. The players will
go as far as the coaches lead them PERIOD, DOT.

They came out "Jets Game Style" in BACK-TO-BACK seasons.

The Saints' hurricane season was much worse than ours, and they went to the
NFC Title Game. Their leadership instilled mental toughness into THAT SQUAD.

We now have three consecutive years of losing in the division, and winning
against everybody else. So, yes. It's the coaching pal. If 2006 was such
a low-talented team, why did Kubiak post his best division record ever, 3-3,
in ONLY THAT SEASON??

When you lose five, and win five, what do you get?

.500 winning percentage

When you start 5-3, and EVERY GAME MATTERS, what did it get us?
0-4

Look past 8-8, and I'll show you a coach that gets this team to lose with
more PIZAAAAAAZZ than any coach in the NFL.

Every week, they players say the same thing:
"We lost. We just gotta look at the film, and get ready for the next game."

Every goddamned week. They're checking to tape to see how they screwed
up THIS week, and they'll find a NEW way to do it the NEXT week. They
ARE consistent, just not in the direction we need them to head in.

imatexan
12-08-2009, 11:06 PM
This thread confuses me.

Did AJ say this or do you want him to say this?

Carr Bombed
12-08-2009, 11:07 PM
successful Brown pass=content/quiet fans
unsuccessful Brown pass=bitching and moaning on Kardashian level

l

Umm, yeah......that happens when you call off the cuff trick plays. Eric Winston even said the same exact thing himself on his radio show. NOBODY would be throwing a ***** fest here if the call was a fade to Andre in the back of the end zone. Kubiak's biggest problem here is he always has to outsmart himself time and time again. He would be better served going with the K.I.S.S. play call more often :rolleyes: Excuse it any way you want, but the fact still remains.....that was a horrible call that just reeked of desperation.

Speaking of Andre, in all my years of watching pro football I have never seen a all-pro WR denied as much as he is in the red zone. Good teams find a way to get their stud playmaker the ball in the red zone and alot of times Kubiak doesn't even draw plays up for him.....it's actually embarrassing that his career high for TD receptions is 8. Seriously, the guy has arguably the best combination of size, strength, and speed at WO in the league, but for whatever reason we can't seem to get him the ball in the redzone....and Kubiak is supposed to be this "great offensive guru".

Norg
12-08-2009, 11:13 PM
AJ has his TO moment LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJD4FNpPmrk

texanhead08
12-08-2009, 11:23 PM
How many times have we seen a jumbo formation on the goal line and Andre's not even in the game. Thats what I don't get.

buddyboy
12-08-2009, 11:35 PM
Umm, yeah......that happens when you call off the cuff trick plays. Eric Winston even said the same exact thing himself on his radio show. NOBODY would be throwing a ***** fest here if the call was a fade to Andre in the back of the end zone. Kubiak's biggest problem here is he always has to outsmart himself time and time again. He would be better served going with the K.I.S.S. play call more often :rolleyes: Excuse it any way you want, but the fact still remains.....that was a horrible call that just reeked of desperation.

Speaking of Andre, in all my years of watching pro football I have never seen a all-pro WR denied as much as he is in the red zone. Good teams find a way to get their stud playmaker the ball in the red zone and alot of times Kubiak doesn't even draw plays up for him.....it's actually embarrassing that his career high for TD receptions is 8. Seriously, the guy has arguably the best combination of size, strength, and speed at WO in the league, but for whatever reason we can't seem to get him the ball in the redzone....and Kubiak is supposed to be this "great offensive guru".

I thought someone threw out a stat a while back that Andre was the most targeted WR in the red zone in the league. I don't remember who, but it surprised a lot of people.

EDIT: From the site I found (rotowire), Andre is tied for red zone targets (20) with Larry Fitzgerald for the most targeted wide reciever.

BattleRedToro
12-08-2009, 11:39 PM
I thought someone threw out a stat a while back that Andre was the most targeted WR in the red zone in the league. I don't remember who, but it surprised a lot of people

I have heard AJ is the most targeted receiver in the NFL, but that wasn't broken down into specifically the Red Zone. It could be that he is the most targeted overall but not the most targeted in the Red Zone.

buddyboy
12-09-2009, 12:02 AM
I have heard AJ is the most targeted receiver in the NFL, but that wasn't broken down into specifically the Red Zone. It could be that he is the most targeted overall but not the most targeted in the Red Zone.

He is leading the league in targets (130), that is true, but like I said above, he is also tied for first in red zone targets (20) with Fitz. Take it for what you will, but one last thing I found interesting is that inside the 10 yard line, his targets go all the way down to 4, and inside the five yard line, it goes down to two.

However, it IS interesting how many posters here blindly comment on how little AJ is targeted in the red zone, regardless of what the stats say.

Carr Bombed
12-09-2009, 12:13 AM
He is leading the league in targets (130), that is true, but like I said above, he is also tied for first in red zone targets (20) with Fitz. Take it for what you will, but one last thing I found interesting is that inside the 10 yard line, his targets go all the way down to 4, and inside the five yard line, it goes down to two.

However, it IS interesting how many posters here blindly comment on how little AJ is targeted in the red zone, regardless of what the stats say.

Well, that's what I'm talking about......at the goal line, so I'm not blindly commenting anything.

Outside of that area Aj can be just running slant routes inside the 20 and while that counts as a "red zone target". It's not a play where he'll have a high probability of scoring unless he jacks people up like he did against Arizona. Mainly those throws are just to move the ball.....NOT TO SCORE (which is why I don't need a stat telling me how many targets he has inside the 20. I watch the games for myself and can see how we're not going to him enough for real scoring opportunities). I'm talking about around the goal line where sometimes he's taken completely off the field or ignored or other targets in the endzone. Do they keep a stat of that?....most targets in the endzone

BattleRedToro
12-09-2009, 12:15 AM
He is leading the league in targets (130), that is true, but like I said above, he is also tied for first in red zone targets (20) with Fitz. Take it for what you will, but one last thing I found interesting is that inside the 10 yard line, his targets go all the way down to 4, and inside the five yard line, it goes down to two.

However, it IS interesting how many posters here blindly comment on how little AJ is targeted in the red zone, regardless of what the stats say.

Maybe the correct complaint is then:

AJ is not targeted enough in the Endzone.

buddyboy
12-09-2009, 12:17 AM
Well, that's what I'm talking about......at the goal line, so I'm not blindly commenting anything.

Outside of that area Aj can be just running slant routes inside the 20 and that not a play where he'll have a high probability of scoring unless he jacks people up like he did against Arizona. I'm talking about around the goal line where sometimes he's taken completely off the field or ignored.

Plus I don't need stats I watch the games for myself and can see how were not going to him enough down there.

I agree that inside the 5 yard line, even inside the 10 yard line, we need to do a better job of drawing up plays for our best playmaker. However, I will say, when OD wasn't injured, I don't recall us having too difficult of a time scoring near the goal line (when we were passing at least).

We should take a page from the Colt's gameplan though, in terms of goal line play calling. Granted, Schaub's no Manning, and Manning and Wayne have some amazing chemistry, but seeing Manning throw fades and quick slants to Wayne in the endzone is a thing of beauty.

Carr Bombed
12-09-2009, 12:23 AM
I agree that inside the 5 yard line, even inside the 10 yard line, we need to do a better job of drawing up plays for our best playmaker. However, I will say, when OD wasn't injured, I don't recall us having too difficult of a time scoring near the goal line (when we were passing at least).

We should take a page from the Colt's game plan though, in terms of goal line play calling. Granted, Schaub's no Manning, and Manning and Wayne have some amazing chemistry, but seeing Manning throw fades and quick slants to Wayne in the end zone is a thing of beauty.

They eat people up with that play and honestly while Schaub is no Manning, I see no reason why he wouldn't be able to make that same throw. (because I see other QBs making that throw all the time) It's all about accuracy and placement of the ball....Schaub can do that.

But yeah, you're right.....we did score down there when we had Owen Daniels, but it seems like Kubiak has made ZERO adjustments to his playcalling since Daniels went out. Which is probably why we haven't really won a game since he went out. He needs to go to his playmaker around the goal line....especially with Daniels out.

FEED ANDRE THE BALL. Nothing, but good things happen when we do that.

sportfan73
12-09-2009, 01:34 AM
He is leading the league in targets (130), that is true, but like I said above, he is also tied for first in red zone targets (20) with Fitz. Take it for what you will, but one last thing I found interesting is that inside the 10 yard line, his targets go all the way down to 4, and inside the five yard line, it goes down to two.

However, it IS interesting how many posters here blindly comment on how little AJ is targeted in the red zone, regardless of what the stats say.

targeted in the red zone and end zone are big time different, he catches a lot of WR screens and slants in the red zone, but the fact remains he's hardly thrown the rock when we're inside the 10

TimeKiller
12-09-2009, 07:34 AM
I'd love to see what Schaub could do behind the wheel and not just auto-piloting. I've heard him say the options within the plays are enough to not need audibles but getting up to the line and believing a run is going to get past 8 guys is stupid. Does that set up a playaction pass later or just a run play for 0 yards?

Mr. White
12-09-2009, 08:07 AM
This is no surprise. Just more evidence that Kubiak is a control freak.

NitroGSXR
12-09-2009, 09:04 AM
targeted in the red zone and end zone are big time different, he catches a lot of WR screens and slants in the red zone, but the fact remains he's hardly thrown the rock when we're inside the 10

I think most people run when they're inside the 10. I'm not disputing anything you're saying. Just felt that might give an excuse as to why he's not targeted as much inside the 10. We're too one dimensional. Get us a run stuffer and i bet Andre's TD output goes higher.

hollywood_texan
12-09-2009, 09:41 AM
Kubes hasn't shown a lot of flexibility of thought in his tenure here.

=============

If Kubiak allows Schaub to change plays it might be successful. However, it might also be unsuccessful. I see the limitation on Schaub as further .500 thinking. It is "not playing to win" for fear of losing. As more commonly stated: playing not to lose.

============

I also think it is hard for a qb to become a leader when the coach restricts his ability to lead like this.

And the Texans gave up 2 second round draft picks for a QB that they will not allow to audible to another play.

What is the point of that trade then?

DexmanC
12-09-2009, 09:49 AM
And the Texans gave up 2 second round draft picks for a QB that they will not allow to audible to another play.

What is the point of that trade then?

We get a quarterback with an accurate arm, who's "o.k." with doing EXACTLY
what Kubiak ORDERS him to do.

HJam72
12-09-2009, 11:06 AM
What is it with coaches thinking QBs can't be trusted to call audibles? I know you don't want them just trying to make up plays on the field, but give the man some pass AND run audibles. Otherwise, your offense is playing at a disadvantage.

Vinny
12-09-2009, 11:09 AM
What is it with coaches thinking QBs can't be trusted to call audibles? I know you don't want them just trying to make up plays on the field, but give the man some pass AND run audibles. Otherwise, your offense is playing at a disadvantage.hey, no ordering off the menu please.

HoustonFrog
12-09-2009, 11:29 AM
So AJ says this. He also says

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/6756697.html

“I've been through it before,” receiver Andre Johnson said. “This is my second head coach. It is what it is.”

You have DeMeco saying

“Man, I don't know about that one. You'd think we'd ram it in from there,” linebacker DeMeco Ryans said. “It's frustrating.”

Schaub commented that:

said he would have liked the ball in his hands so the offense could “go for the jugular.”

Then you have the Dunta show incident to start the year, guys showing up late to meetings...Jacoby, lazy play, etc

Where in all of this do I see support for a coach or a guy players really are rallying behind?

Runner
12-09-2009, 11:43 AM
Where in all of this do I see support for a coach or a guy players really are rallying behind?

That is largely a myth at this point. While it may have been true the first couple of years, I had heard before season three started that at least some players considered year three to be Kubiak's make or break year.

We "knee jerk" fans are just catching up with them after year four while others may need a year five to close the gap.

hollywood_texan
12-09-2009, 12:22 PM
That is largely a myth at this point. While it may have been true the first couple of years, I had heard before season three started that at least some players considered year three to be Kubiak's make or break year.

We "knee jerk" fans are just catching up with them after year four while others may need a year five to close the gap.

Geez, and then we have an owner that is the caboose. Nothing like bringing up the rear...

HoustonFrog
12-09-2009, 12:29 PM
That is largely a myth at this point. While it may have been true the first couple of years, I had heard before season three started that at least some players considered year three to be Kubiak's make or break year.

We "knee jerk" fans are just catching up with them after year four while others may need a year five to close the gap.

Of course if you read John McClain today or some others they constantly act like they don't uinderstand the heat on Kubiak.

Here is a snippet from a chat with JC right now. You tell me where he has been all of these years. A bunch of apologists...soft (with man teets)

http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2009/12/live_texans_chat_at_11_am.html

11:36 [Comment From Hutch Hutch : ]
Why should anyone think Kubiak will be better in year 5 when he is still making the same mistakes in year 4 that he has been the previous 3 years? Bad clock management, bad challenges, bad awareness of when a challenge might be thrown against him (team should be rushing to get a play off), and he won't give Schaub any string to do more with audibles (either lacks trust or has too much of an ego in wanting to micromanage that aspect). Also --- tell me how a 4th year coach can get COMPLETELY outcoached by a rookie head coach who is starting a rookie QB in his FIRST NFL game?? Again I ask, why is Kubiak considered a good head coach?
Wednesday December 9, 2009 11:36 Hutch

11:36 John McClain: I sure don't see the mistakes you do.

IlliniJen
12-09-2009, 12:30 PM
That is largely a myth at this point. While it may have been true the first couple of years, I had heard before season three started that at least some players considered year three to be Kubiak's make or break year.

We "knee jerk" fans are just catching up with them after year four while others may need a year five to close the gap.

I kept hearing that the players just love Kubiak, but I don't see where that shows up on the field. They certainly don't play with a "let's do it for coach" fire. Where exactly does that love show up, then?

I think it's an urban myth.

Vinny
12-09-2009, 12:32 PM
I kept hearing that the players just love Kubiak, but I don't see where that shows up on the field. They certainly don't play with a "let's do it for coach" fire. Where exactly does that love show up, then?

I think it's an urban myth.
The Texans have a very PC culture so the 'I wubs Kubiak' is comrade-speak. Remember, nobody circles the wagons like the Texans marketing department.

HoustonFrog
12-09-2009, 12:34 PM
I kept hearing that the players just love Kubiak, but I don't see where that shows up on the field. They certainly don't play with a "let's do it for coach" fire. Where exactly does that love show up, then?

I think it's an urban myth.

And why do reporters and the media assume that "insiders" or people from other teams are going to give them the truth. Do you think an ex-coach or someone with another team are going to just bust on someone in their own fraternity and say "he is way over his head, he should be fired."

GP
12-09-2009, 12:52 PM
11:36 [Comment From Hutch Hutch : ]
Why should anyone think Kubiak will be better in year 5 when he is still making the same mistakes in year 4 that he has been the previous 3 years? Bad clock management, bad challenges, bad awareness of when a challenge might be thrown against him (team should be rushing to get a play off), and he won't give Schaub any string to do more with audibles (either lacks trust or has too much of an ego in wanting to micromanage that aspect). Also --- tell me how a 4th year coach can get COMPLETELY outcoached by a rookie head coach who is starting a rookie QB in his FIRST NFL game?? Again I ask, why is Kubiak considered a good head coach?
Wednesday December 9, 2009 11:36 Hutch

11:36 John McClain: I sure don't see the mistakes you do.

Wow.

Is JC "for real" with that?

Man alive, that's downright sad if he seriously doesn't see what we see.

(Sigh)

Why does it seem that people who have no business running important things are always the ones running important things? And they have other people around them who enable them and keep them there? Prop them up in their sad state of being. Act like nothing is wrong. Shrug their shoulders. Etc.

This is the Twilight Zone. Has to be. This is not real. Is it?

(sigh)

Vinny
12-09-2009, 01:09 PM
Wow.

Is JC "for real" with that?

Man alive, that's downright sad if he seriously doesn't see what we see.

(Sigh)

Why does it seem that people who have no business running important things are always the ones running important things? And they have other people around them who enable them and keep them there? Prop them up in their sad state of being. Act like nothing is wrong. Shrug their shoulders. Etc.

This is the Twilight Zone. Has to be. This is not real. Is it?

(sigh)McClain only has an opinion when given one when it comes to the NFL. He's never really ever been an astute observer of the game. His strength is his contacts but he tries to dabble in personal observation and he has always been consistently bad. He doesn't know what he is looking at outside of the obvious stuff.