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Jackie Chiles
12-07-2009, 06:17 PM
I've been on record as saying my top two coaching candidates for next year would be Cowher followed by Frazier but what are some opinions on John Fox? The more I think about him the more I think he could be a pretty good fit here if he gets axed in Carolina (a move which could eliminate Cowher from my list).

He has head coaching experience. .548 career winning percentage. Been to a Super Bowl. Been to the playoffs 3 times. I believe he places a much higher value on size and strength on the O-line which is something a lot of people have been pining for. Not only that but he has invested in some real quality RBs and has had some fantastic ground games during his tenure in Carolina. Seems to always have a big, strong and athletic defense.

He obviously has some downfalls, most notably I would point to his teams going from 11-12 wins back to about 7 and then back to 11-12. I really believe a lot of that has to do with Jake Delhomme and how wildly inconsistent he has been. Sometimes hes great, sometimes hes terrible, lately he has been really bad.

Fox obviously isn't a perfect candidate but outside of Cowher, Holmgren and maybe Gruden his resume is equal to or superior to anyone else that might be available. Just some food for thought.

TheRealJoker
12-07-2009, 06:21 PM
I've been on record as saying my top two coaching candidates for next year would be Cowher followed by Frazier but what are some opinions on John Fox? The more I think about him the more I think he could be a pretty good fit here if he gets axed in Carolina (a move which could eliminate Cowher from my list).

He has head coaching experience. .548 career winning percentage. Been to a Super Bowl. Been to the playoffs 3 times. I believe he places a much higher value on size and strength on the O-line which is something a lot of people have been pining for. Not only that but he has invested in some real quality RBs and has had some fantastic ground games during his tenure in Carolina. Seems to always have a big, strong and athletic defense.

He obviously has some downfalls, most notably I would point to his teams going from 11-12 wins back to about 7 and then back to 11-12. I really believe a lot of that has to do with Jake Delhomme and how wildly inconsistent he has been. Sometimes hes great, sometimes hes terrible, lately he has been really bad.

Fox obviously isn't a perfect candidate but outside of Cowher, Holmgren and maybe Gruden his resume is equal to or superior to anyone else that might be available. Just some food for thought.

I'm weary of getting an HC who was just fired. Especially after seeing what's happening to the Browns.

Gonna be a tough-sell to claim that a recently fired HC is the answer... but I bet this team's stellar marketing department could pull it off unfortunately :(

Goldensilence
12-07-2009, 06:24 PM
If we do make the coaching change I think he'd be a good choice as a DC.

steelbtexan
12-07-2009, 06:28 PM
Fox is a great candidate.

He has a real rhysical team that doesn't try to get cute.

He has gone as far as he can with Delhomme.

He has a 1st rate asst coaching staff.

McNair is from NC and Fox would be the kind of coach that fits the McNair mold.

I could see this happening and wouldn't be opposed to it.

nero THE zero
12-07-2009, 06:29 PM
He also runs a ZBS, which wouldn't necessitate the schematic changes that some folks are so adverse to. He's also a defensive minded coach which I think most prefer. But, he's only had 3 winning seasons out of 8.

I'd probably prefer Cowher, Schottenheimer, Gruden, and Holmgren all over him. Though, I'd probably prefer Fox to any assistants, Shanahan, and Billick.

bckey
12-07-2009, 06:32 PM
McClain brought him up this morning on 610. I wouldn't mind having him. I think he has been handicapped by Delhome but I do wonder why there has been no plan in place to replace Delhome. I hope that is on their gm and not Fox.

I would still prefer Marty or Cowher.

steelbtexan
12-07-2009, 06:33 PM
I'm weary of getting an HC who was just fired. Especially after seeing what's happening to the Browns.

Gonna be a tough-sell to claim that a recently fired HC is the answer... but I bet this team's stellar marketing department could pull it off unfortunately :(

I'm not leary because he's gone as far as he can go with Delhomme. Which is farther than I think anybody could have reasonably expected. Delhomme stinks.

If Cowher replaces Fox at least Fox got replaced by the guy who was the no.1 on most peoples board.

nero THE zero
12-07-2009, 06:43 PM
McClain brought him up this morning on 610. I wouldn't mind having him. I think he has been handicapped by Delhome but I do wonder why there has been no plan in place to replace Delhome. I hope that is on their gm and not Fox.

I would still prefer Marty or Cowher.

He's chosen to start Delhomme despite having better options behind him. He's definitely succeptible to excessive stuborness/loyalty that's become a trademark of this team. Which means he's probably a likely candidate for us.

To make it worse, envision a scenario where Cowher goes to Carolina and we get sloppy seconds on Fox. Not only do we miss out on that big name coach, we get one that was replaced by what we so desperately need.

The more I think about it, the more John Fox has Houston Texans written all over his forehead.

Carr Bombed
12-07-2009, 07:57 PM
He's chosen to start Delhomme despite having better options behind him. He's definitely succeptible to excessive stuborness/loyalty that's become a trademark of this team. Which means he's probably a likely candidate for us.

To make it worse, envision a scenario where Cowher goes to Carolina and we get sloppy seconds on Fox. Not only do we miss out on that big name coach, we get one that was replaced by what we so desperately need.

The more I think about it, the more John Fox has Houston Texans written all over his forehead.

LOL! What "better options" did Fox have behind Delhomme? David Carr http://freesmileyface.net/smiley/Laughing/lol-030.gif (http://freesmileyface.net/Free-Laughing-Smileys.html)

Hiring John Fox would be a very smart hire for Houston if Cowher wasn't available. His teams have always been defensively sound, he runs the 4-3 so there wouldn't be any personnel problems.

....and the best thing of all, THE GUY USUALLY HAS BIG PHYSICAL OFFENSIVE LINES AND A POWER RUNNING GAME!

John Fox would be a excellent hire here.

houstonspartan
12-07-2009, 08:02 PM
LOL! What "better options" did Fox have behind Delhomme? David Carr http://freesmileyface.net/smiley/Laughing/lol-030.gif (http://freesmileyface.net/Free-Laughing-Smileys.html)

Hiring John Fox would be a very smart hire for Houston if Cowher wasn't available. His teams have always been defensively sound, he runs the 4-3 so there wouldn't be any personnel problems.

....and the best thing of all, THE GUY HAS ALWAYS HAD BIG PHYSICAL OFFENSIVE LINES AND A POWER RUNNING GAME!

John Fox would be a excellent hire here.

Wouldn't that necessitate a gutting of the O-Line? Sounds like personnel issues, to me.

I agree with you that we need fat men up front. But I have doubts about hiring someone who was recently fired.

Big Lou
12-07-2009, 08:03 PM
A defensive minded Head Coach that coached Carolina and went to the playoffs, and got fired.


Uuummmm, I think we tried that one already.

False Start
12-07-2009, 08:06 PM
A defensive minded Head Coach that coached Carolina and went to the playoffs, and got fired.


Uuummmm, I think we tried that one already.

Beat me to it.

Carr Bombed
12-07-2009, 08:08 PM
Wouldn't that necessitate a gutting of the O-Line? Sounds like personnel issues, to me.

I agree with you that we need fat men up front. But I have doubts about hiring someone who was recently fired.

:rolleyes: The oline doesn't count as personnel issues, because it doesn't matter who we hire, we have to get stronger upfront. Newsflash, the oline sucks.

As far as hiring somebody who was recently fired... You know how some people are trying to excuse Kubiak, because of multiple player mistakes? Well John Fox is going to get fired, because of one player. When you don't have a QB in this league it's tough, but players have always played tough for Fox and he's taken that team to places they never should have gone to. He's a good football coach, I wouldn't be upset at all if we hired him.

Carr Bombed
12-07-2009, 08:13 PM
A defensive minded Head Coach that coached Carolina and went to the playoffs, and got fired.


Uuummmm, I think we tried that one already.

That's not a reason not to hire somebody. The only thing Capers and Fox have in common is the fact that they were head coaches in Carolina. Two completely different coaching trees, coaching two completely different systems, and Fox has actually had a track record of success at the head coaching position.

Scratching Fox off a list just because he happened to coach the same team Capers did a decade earlier is rediculous and I hope the FO wouldn't have that kind of mindset when searching for coaching candidates.

Pantherstang84
12-07-2009, 08:17 PM
2006 = ABC (Anybody but Carr)
2009 = ABK (Anybody but Kubiak)

John Fox? Really?

Kind of getting desperate here aren't we?

houstonspartan
12-07-2009, 08:19 PM
:rolleyes: The oline doesn't count as personnel issues, because it doesn't matter who we hire, we have to get stronger upfront. Newsflash, the oline sucks.

As far as hiring somebody who was recently fired... You know how some people are trying to excuse Kubiak, because of multiple player mistakes? Well John Fox is going to get fired, because of one player. When you don't have a QB in this league it's tough, but players have always played tough for Fox and he's taken that team to places they never should have gone to. He's a good football coach, I wouldn't be upset at all if we hired him.

Hmm. You bring up good points. Word on the street was that Fox was going to get fired like three years ago. And yet he keeps motivating his players enough to grind it out and get it done.

When I heard about the Delhomee contract extension, I was driving in my car and listening to the radio. I couldn't believe what I heard. That was a mistake.

So, maybe it's possible Fox just needs a better GM?

Nawzer
12-07-2009, 08:29 PM
If John Fox was in a bigger market, he would get a whole lot more publicity than he does. He is an excellent coach who has taken his team to the playoffs and to the superbowl. I think after Cowher he would be my second choice.

Jackie Chiles
12-07-2009, 08:29 PM
2006 = ABC (Anybody but Carr)
2009 = ABK (Anybody but Kubiak)

John Fox? Really?

Kind of getting desperate here aren't we?

ABC worked out pretty well.

I don't see how John fox is getting desperate. Bill Belichick coaches don't grow on trees. We can't all have Super Bowl winning perennially fantastic coaches. Like I said earlier, give me some names of other previous head coaches or even coordinators outside of the Cowher/Holmgren types (who may not come here due to reasons beyond our control) and lets see how their resumes stack up.

DerekLee1
12-07-2009, 09:24 PM
NO. He hangs on to crappy quarterbacks too long. And he signed David Carr. Bad signs.

ArlingtonTexan
12-07-2009, 09:28 PM
John fox is not terrible, but not sure that he is a true next level coach. His offenses have been very unimaginitive, and even with a top 5-10 WR terrible as a pass offense. Also, he tends to stick by veteran players too long. Sorry, no reason that Jake D. and M. Muhhammed should still be starting. Better of defense, but is still reluntant to rotate players and from year to year that organization is pretty inconsistent. Playoffs one year, not close the next. Probably would bring more of a power zone style and more emphasis on defense, so he is good combination of defense/ and not going too far from teh Texans current style. Honestly, this is the type of hire I could see mcNair making.

bckey
12-07-2009, 09:29 PM
NO. He hangs on to crappy quarterbacks too long. And he signed David Carr. Bad signs.


Well we signed Grossman and Orlovsky.:thinking:

Carr Bombed
12-07-2009, 09:32 PM
NO. He hangs on to crappy quarterbacks too long. And he signed David Carr. Bad signs.

Since when did John Fox become the G.M. of the Panthers?

Texecutioner
12-07-2009, 10:48 PM
Fox is a great candidate.

He has a real rhysical team that doesn't try to get cute.

He has gone as far as he can with Delhomme.

He has a 1st rate asst coaching staff.

McNair is from NC and Fox would be the kind of coach that fits the McNair mold.

I could see this happening and wouldn't be opposed to it.

I like Fox myself and wouldn't be upset if that was who we ended up with. I'd much rather have Holmgren or Cowher, but I could feel pretty good about Fox. I like how the Panthers have had bad seasons but then were able to bounce right back and be a great team again. That shows me that the guy knows how to turn it around just like Cowher could when the Steelers would have a bad season here and there. And yeah, he has had to work with Delhome, who has been a pretty poor QB. Steve Smith has made Delhome look so much better than he actually is.

Norg
12-07-2009, 10:58 PM
last year werent the like the Number 1 or 2 seed in the NFC thats a dream season IMO

treduke
12-07-2009, 11:00 PM
i like fox but only as a dc i stand by my picks of cowher or frazier

Hookem Horns
12-07-2009, 11:06 PM
I wouldn't be opposed to Fox considering he came up in the Giants organization. The Giants have a good record of putting out head coaches which Fox has been for the most part.

LonerATO
12-08-2009, 04:08 AM
I wouldn't be opposed to Fox considering he came up in the Giants organization. The Giants have a good record of putting out head coaches which Fox has been for the most part.

Fox is under the Walsh tree via Jim Fassel

4Texans
12-08-2009, 07:43 AM
McNair and Jerry Richardson are real good friends. If Richardson does fire Fox, then I'm sure McNair would get the full sotry on fow from Jerry, good or bad. Fox has had some success, but they've also had some tuff years lately....

JB
12-08-2009, 08:42 AM
McNair and Jerry Richardson are real good friends. If Richardson does fire Fox, then I'm sure McNair would get the full sotry on fow from Jerry, good or bad. Fox has had some success, but they've also had some tuff years lately....


AFLAC moment?

Hookem Horns
12-08-2009, 10:08 AM
Fox is under the Walsh tree via Jim Fassel

Fox was the defensive coordinator of the Giants (under Fassel) from 97-01.

4Texans
12-08-2009, 10:27 AM
AFLAC moment?

LOL... Slightly! "story on Fox":user:

steelbtexan
12-08-2009, 11:26 AM
I like Fox myself and wouldn't be upset if that was who we ended up with. I'd much rather have Holmgren or Cowher, but I could feel pretty good about Fox. I like how the Panthers have had bad seasons but then were able to bounce right back and be a great team again. That shows me that the guy knows how to turn it around just like Cowher could when the Steelers would have a bad season here and there. And yeah, he has had to work with Delhome, who has been a pretty poor QB. Steve Smith has made Delhome look so much better than he actually is.

Agreed

AJ makes Schaub look good too.

I like the fact that Carolina plays a physical brand of football.

Fox is a good leader. Who has proven that he can rebuild on the fly and take a team to the SB with average at best QB play.

The Texans could do alot worse than hiring Fox. IMO

Texecutioner
12-08-2009, 11:54 AM
Agreed

AJ makes Schaub look good too.

I like the fact that Carolina plays a physical brand of football.

Fox is a good leader. Who has proven that he can rebuild on the fly and take a team to the SB with average at best QB play.

The Texans could do alot worse than hiring Fox. IMO

Yeah, he wouldn't be my first choice by any means, but he's certainly not a bad one. As I said before, if a coach can have a lot of success like Fox has had, and then have some adversity with a poor season where there are a lot of injuries and certain players under achieve or whatever and then bounce right back the next year or so after a few adjustments, roster shake ups, and tweaks, then that shows me something. I've watched Fisher and Cowher do that their entire careers with their teams. It's hard for any NFL team to stay on top and dominate year after year for so long. Eventually each team is going to run into some bad luck, some bad injuries, and what not where they have a disappointing season. But can they turn that team back into a winner and a successful team is the question? Can they build that confidence right back rather quickly? I think Fox has been able to do that in Carolina. He's not having the best season this year, but that's mainly because of Delhome and that was the organization's worst move. They extended Delhome last season to a big contract and right when they did that I said it was a horrible mistake. Delhome was so exposed in that Cardinals playoff game last year.

If you looked at his numbers from that SB season, his numbers have gotten worse and worse year after year. The Panthers have had a pretty dominant running game year after year as well and then Steve Smith carrying that passing game making Delhome look way better than what he's ever been. Delhome has killed their team this season. I don't see Carolina going anywhere any time soon until the get rid of Delhome. He's killing them.


If Fox is fired so they can go after Cowher, then I want Cowher as well or Holmgren, but Fox would be my third choice.

Porky
12-08-2009, 12:29 PM
John Fox is in the upper middle of my wish list. I think he brings some good things to the table, but my main concern is his offenses have been about as plain jane as you can get and this team is built for speed. This isn't a 3 yards and a cloud of dust offense. Marty would bring that same mentality, but we are much closer to Air Coryell or the Greatest Show on Turf Rams or the Manning led Colts than we are to the philosphies that Marty or Fox and even Cohwer to a lesser extent bring to the table. It might be two steps forward but one step back with this type of coach. Ideally, we need a West Coast guru to continue to build on what we have.

Texecutioner
12-08-2009, 12:36 PM
John Fox is in the upper middle of my wish list. I think he brings some good things to the table, but my main concern is his offenses have been about as plain jane as you can get and this team is built for speed. This isn't a 3 yards and a cloud of dust offense. Marty would bring that same mentality, but we are much closer to Air Coryell or the Greatest Show on Turf Rams or the Manning led Colts than we are to the philosphies that Marty or Fox and even Cohwer to a lesser extent bring to the table. It might be two steps forward but one step back with this type of coach. Ideally, we need a West Coast guru to continue to build on what we have.

All I care about at the end of the day is to get a HC that can "consistently" field winning teams and have a team with a killer instinct. That's what I've always liked about Cowher. He's always had teams with a killer instinct and his formula for winning is a pretty simple one that he's followed from year to year. I don't think that Fox is far from that when you consider his entire body of work with the Carolina Panthers and considering the fact that he's had Delhome the entire time that he's been there practically I think he's done a pretty damn good job. He went to a SB and barely lost it to the Pats who had just won their 3rd one against them and have been a dynasty this decade. They had a great team last season and Delhome completely gave that game away in the first quarter last season to the NFC team that almost won it all. He's been in the playoffs a few times now and like I said he's been able to get right back after a poor season or two. The Panthers have never been held down long since he's been there. His teams bounce back, and that's a trait that I like and admire out of a HC that I think can be a long term HC for almost any team.

4Texans
12-28-2009, 12:51 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/12/28/john-fox-and-marty-hurney-can-return-to-carolina/

After two straight convincing wins, Panthers coach John Fox is off the hot seat for now.

Tom Sorensen of the Charlotte Observer reports that Fox, G.M. Marty Hurney, and Fox's entire coaching staff will be "offered the opportunity" to return to the Panthers in 2010. Fox will not be offered a contract extension.

Fox is reportedly due $6 million in 2010, the final year of his current deal. Sorensen writes that a potential lockout after the 2010 season could be a factor in the decision to keep Fox.

The 7-8 Panthers face many big offseason questions, like at quarterback and what do do with Julius Peppers. (The most likely Peppers solution: waving goodbye.)

Left unsaid is whether Fox will definitely take the "opportunity" to return as a lame duck coach. With so much money due and no freedom to entertain job offers, we have to assume he will be back.

I see the Kubiak coming back under the same circumstances. Last year of contract, no extension, etc..... and Kubiak will take that opportunity.