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beerlover
12-07-2009, 09:36 AM
Any thoughts?

Who will win it?

Who should win it?

The announcement of invites headed to NY is today, found a nice breakdown here http://blogs.mercurynews.com/collegesports/2009/12/06/toby-gerhart-and-the-heisman-what-now/ but it sure seems wide open to me. From a pro-prospect angle Suh is ranked #1 but since when did that matter? That last pass from Colt with time running out blew it for him, IMO, Tebow has been great for the College game but really looks like he's topped out, Bradford out with shoulder, leaving three viable RB's Ingram, Spiller & Gerhart.

MojoMan
12-07-2009, 09:44 AM
It should be Ndamukong Suh, DT - Nebraska.

Here is an article on that topic:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/303688-letter-to-heisman-voters-heisman-should-go-to-nebraskas-ndamukong-suh

TD
12-07-2009, 09:45 AM
I imagine Ingram edges McCoy. Not only did Colt have a subpar statistical game Saturday, I think there's a bit of anti-Texas sentiment right now that will influence voters to punish McCoy for Texas making the Championship game.

Too bad...if either the dropped sure long touchdown reception or the fumble on what appeared to be a game clinching drive had not happened, I think Colt still wins.

Imatexanfan
12-07-2009, 09:53 AM
I imagine Ingram edges McCoy. Not only did Colt have a subpar statistical game Saturday, I think there's a bit of anti-Texas sentiment right now that will influence voters to punish McCoy for Texas making the Championship game.

Too bad...if either the dropped sure long touchdown reception or the fumble on what appeared to be a game clinching drive had not happened, I think Colt still wins.

My vote exactly...:clown:

TexansSeminole
12-07-2009, 10:09 AM
Should be Ndamukong Suh, but it won't be. I doubt he is even invited.

After Suh, Toby Gerhart. I doubt he wins either.

After Gerhart, Ingram.

MojoMan
12-07-2009, 10:15 AM
Is Barack Obama being considered for this award?

To those who would say that Obama has done nothing to justify consideration for this award, I would note that he was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize even though he had done nothing to justify receiving that award either.

Perhaps this is just the year of Barack Obama and it is his destiny to win the Heisman trophy. Go Barack!

Blake
12-07-2009, 10:25 AM
Is Barack Obama being considered for this award?

To those who would say that Obama has done nothing to justify consideration for this award, I would note that he was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize even though he had done nothing to justify receiving that award either.

Perhaps this is just the year of Barack Obama and it is his destiny to win the Heisman trophy. Go Barack!

There is a sub forum for political talk. Go argue over there about that.

Blake
12-07-2009, 10:30 AM
I think Suh, Gerhart, Ingram and McCoy will get the invite.

I hope Suh wins, but I think Gerhart or McCoy will get it.

Ingram being a sophmore hurts his case IMO.

bah007
12-07-2009, 10:43 AM
Suh should win it, but he won't.

kastofsna
12-07-2009, 10:55 AM
Is Barack Obama being considered for this award?

To those who would say that Obama has done nothing to justify consideration for this award, I would note that he was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize even though he had done nothing to justify receiving that award either.

Perhaps this is just the year of Barack Obama and it is his destiny to win the Heisman trophy. Go Barack!

thanks for explaining the joke, it was really difficult to understand with your thorough analysis!

BigBull17
12-07-2009, 10:57 AM
It should be Ndamukong Suh, DT - Nebraska.

Here is an article on that topic:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/303688-letter-to-heisman-voters-heisman-should-go-to-nebraskas-ndamukong-suh

This. It's for the best playefr in the country. Not the best player on the highest ranked team. I bet Obama shocks us in the end though.

Dan B.
12-07-2009, 11:01 AM
Who the hell cares?

The last Heisman winner to do anything worthy of lasting note in the NFL was Barry Sanders.

Like a Grammy, People's Choice Award, or NFL All Pro pick (or the Nobel Prize frankly), the Heisman means next to nothing.

You can tell who is going to be great all on your own. There's no reason to let Wendy's and ESPN make up your mind for you.

The problem with Suh btw is that he wasn't pimped from the start. Heismans are handed out for promotional efforts as much as individual talent these days. Showtime and I got into it wrt UT buying refs yesterday, but here is an area that I'm sure he and I can completely agree on. Big Schools buy the Heisman. Nebraska probably has the resources to pimp the hell out of a defender and get his face plastered on TV all year, but they didn't. The real losers in Heisman discussions are players for schools without the PR departments capable of getting their name out there. These players are relegated to regional obscurity as only alumni and reporter from their area know what they are witnessing.

kastofsna
12-07-2009, 11:02 AM
ask yourself one question: who, of all the names being mentioned, would you put on ANY team in the country, and would still look like the most dominant player in the country?

that's obviously Ndamukong Suh. he's had one of the best years ever for a defensive player, he performed at his absolute best in the biggest game he's ever played in against the best team he's faced, with one of the best o-lines in the country, despite being double-teamed all game.

he's a DT who leads his team in tackles. he's in the top 10 in the country in passes defended, and no other non-defensive back is even in the top 100. there's no doubt he's the best player in the country, and even people who won't vote for him will probably agree. but, he's not on a team that's going to the BCS, and he's not an offensive flashy player, so he won't win it.

however, he might just make it to New York. and hopefully his incredible play and glaring omission from the award will shine a light on the voting process and media and fan pressure will force voters to really start looking at defensive players in the future. people like to point to Charles Woodson as being a defensive player, but to the voters, he was more of an offensive and special teams threat on the #1 team in the country.

after Suh, CJ Spiller is probably the second best player in the country. like Suh, he had an amazing year, and stepped up when it absolutely mattered the most. he was a force in the ACC Championship.

Ingram and Gerhart are neck and neck for me, with Eric Berry close behind those guys. so, my final list is:

1. Ndamukong Suh
2. CJ Spiller
3. Mark Ingram
4. Toby Gerhart
5. Eric Berry

kastofsna
12-07-2009, 11:03 AM
Who the hell cares?

The last Heisman winner to do anything worthy of lasting note in the NFL was Barry Sanders.

the Heisman has nothing to do with the NFL.

Dan B.
12-07-2009, 11:10 AM
the Heisman has nothing to do with the NFL.

The Heisman is a popularity contest. It doesn't say a damn thing about an individual player's talent. Their general failure in the NFL is prima facie evidence of this.

rmartin65
12-07-2009, 11:10 AM
Suh
Gerhart
Ingram

Suh wont win because he plays defense.
Gerhart wont win because nobody cares about Stanford
Ingram will win because he plays in the SEC

gwallaia
12-07-2009, 11:10 AM
Suh should win it, but he won't.

I agree.

beerlover
12-07-2009, 11:12 AM
Is this strickly a media award?

some love for the defensive guys - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ES-InrEULc4

Dan B.
12-07-2009, 11:15 AM
Is this strickly a media award?

some love for the defensive guys - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ES-InrEULc4

Sort of. The media plays a huge part in it.

But I think it is about major schools wanting to stay relevant. If you can't win a NC, than getting a Heisman Winner is going to at least ensure that you continue getting top level talent. So you pour millions into promotional campaigns for a player. You mail gifts to every member of the media and every Heisman voter. Big schools have made it impossible for other players to get mentioned. They are blocking them out, same as in the BCS.

pbat488
12-07-2009, 11:24 AM
For me, it's Suh then everyone else. The guy was unbelievable the entire year.

kastofsna
12-07-2009, 11:28 AM
The Heisman is a popularity contest. It doesn't say a damn thing about an individual player's talent. Their general failure in the NFL is prima facie evidence of this.

i'm not arguing the first point. but the second point has nothing to do with it. being the best player in college football doesn't necessarily mean his abilities will translate to the NFL.

Dan B.
12-07-2009, 11:40 AM
i'm not arguing the first point. but the second point has nothing to do with it. being the best player in college football doesn't necessarily mean his abilities will translate to the NFL.

I think that is a result of the Heisman not measuring who is truly the best player than it is a result of the most talented players in college not having the skill to succeed at the next level. They are not properly evaluating who is the best.

kastofsna
12-07-2009, 11:43 AM
what i'm saying is, the "most outstanding player" in the country, regardless of whether they win the Heisman or not, isn't necessarily going to do well in the NFL. what you're insinuating is the Heisman winner SHOULD be a great NFL player. the award isn't supposed to be rewarded to the player with the most pro potential.

HOU-TEX
12-07-2009, 11:45 AM
Suh should win it, but he won't.

Agreed, the dude's a beast. After Suh it should be Gerhart.

Dan B.
12-07-2009, 11:52 AM
what i'm saying is, the "most outstanding player" in the country, regardless of whether they win the Heisman or not, isn't necessarily going to do well in the NFL. what you're insinuating is the Heisman winner SHOULD be a great NFL player. the award isn't supposed to be rewarded to the player with the most pro potential.

I know what you're saying. I don't agree with that. I do think that the most outstanding football player in college should go on to be an outstanding NFL athlete barring injury. They may not win as much, but as you pointed out individual talent is not measured by team wins. They may not be in a proper system to maximize their skills, but I don't believe that the Heisman should reward a system either.

I agree that the Heisman should not be about measuring pro potential. I don't think it is. But if the Heisman actually went to the most talented player it would be a much more accurate gauge of how that player fared afterwards. As is it's damn near a Madden curse.

kastofsna
12-07-2009, 01:03 PM
they're only "system" players if comparing to the NFL's playbooks. they're two completely different things. that's silly.

MeLoveTexans
12-07-2009, 01:19 PM
Who the hell cares?

The last Heisman winner to do anything worthy of lasting note in the NFL was Barry Sanders.

Like a Grammy, People's Choice Award, or NFL All Pro pick (or the Nobel Prize frankly), the Heisman means next to nothing.

You can tell who is going to be great all on your own. There's no reason to let Wendy's and ESPN make up your mind for you.

The problem with Suh btw is that he wasn't pimped from the start. Heismans are handed out for promotional efforts as much as individual talent these days. Showtime and I got into it wrt UT buying refs yesterday, but here is an area that I'm sure he and I can completely agree on. Big Schools buy the Heisman. Nebraska probably has the resources to pimp the hell out of a defender and get his face plastered on TV all year, but they didn't. The real losers in Heisman discussions are players for schools without the PR departments capable of getting their name out there. These players are relegated to regional obscurity as only alumni and reporter from their area know what they are witnessing.

Because we all know Charles Woodson is a huge bust

nunusguy
12-07-2009, 01:47 PM
I dunno, anybody else know when the deadline is for submitting votes ?

TD
12-07-2009, 01:52 PM
Because we all know Charles Woodson is a huge bust

A little closer to home...Eddie George...Ricky Williams. Especially Ricky, if he could of laid off the pot. Shoot he'll most likely still finish his career with > 10k yards.

kastofsna
12-07-2009, 01:56 PM
Carson Palmer is good.

Kaiser Toro
12-07-2009, 01:57 PM
I believe it will be:
Ingram
McCoy
Gerhart
Suh
Tebow

As a UT fan, I hope McCoy does not win.

TD
12-07-2009, 02:15 PM
I believe it will be:
Ingram
McCoy
Gerhart
Suh
Tebow

As a UT fan, I hope McCoy does not win.

As much as I'd like to see Colt win, a repeat of 2005 would definitely be better.

kastofsna
12-07-2009, 02:18 PM
if i were a fan of Texas, i'd like McCoy to win. also, i'd like Texas to win the national championship.

eriadoc
12-07-2009, 02:37 PM
I'd like them to redefine the Heisman to just the best offensive skill position player on a big name team. Because that's all it is, really.

If you want the best individual player in the country, I agree, it's Suh. If you want the best individual QB, I think it's Keenum. Give Keenum Texas' defense and he'd do great. If you want RB, I think it's probably Gerhart, but I can't argue too much against Ingram.

Suh ought to win it, but he won't. The Heisman, like the BCS, is a joke.

badboy
12-07-2009, 02:40 PM
Is Barack Obama being considered for this award?

To those who would say that Obama has done nothing to justify consideration for this award, I would note that he was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize even though he had done nothing to justify receiving that award either.

Perhaps this is just the year of Barack Obama and it is his destiny to win the Heisman trophy. Go Barack!Did he play for Denver? Maybe we can get him in free agency this off season.

bah007
12-07-2009, 05:30 PM
I believe it will be:
Ingram
McCoy
Gerhart
Suh
Tebow

As a UT fan, I hope McCoy does not win.

Same here. I don't think Colt deserves it.

I thought Colt should have won it last year, but it's not like Bradford was undeserving. The only reason McCoy and Tebow are even in the running is because they started the season as the favorites.

Silver Oak
12-07-2009, 05:40 PM
http://www.stiffarmtrophy.com/


The Heisman Trophy Trust would go a long way to regaining legitimacy if Suh would win, but he won't. McCoy...no thanks, we need someone who can tell time. Spiller had an outstanding season. Ingram is your probable winner, and a pretty good one at that.

kastofsna
12-07-2009, 06:10 PM
it's been announced.

Gerhart
Suh
McCoy
Ingram
Tebow

Suh made it! :)

WesmanTexanfan
12-07-2009, 06:32 PM
It should be Ndamukong Suh, DT - Nebraska.

Here is an article on that topic:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/303688-letter-to-heisman-voters-heisman-should-go-to-nebraskas-ndamukong-suh

If they want to give it to the best college player then its him, no doubt. I really hope they dont get caught up in resumes....

MojoMan
12-07-2009, 06:42 PM
If they want to give it to the best college player then its him, no doubt. I really hope they dont get caught up in resumes....

Suh's resume looks a lot better than Mark Ingram's. The main strikes against Suh is that he 1) is not an offensive skill player and 2) he does not play for a team ranked in the top 5.

beerlover
12-07-2009, 07:36 PM
it's been announced.

Gerhart
Suh
McCoy
Ingram
Tebow

Suh made it! :)

now I'm actually excited about something :doot:

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=ap-heismantrophy-finalists&prov=ap&type=lgns

mexican_texan
12-07-2009, 11:54 PM
Ingram reminds me of Clinton Portis. My question here is, what makes Suh different from Glenn Dorsey?

kastofsna
12-08-2009, 12:56 AM
My question here is, what makes Suh different from Glenn Dorsey?

he's 10 times the prospect Dorsey was? he dominates games much more than Dorsey ever did? he has no injury concerns, unlike Dorsey?

there's really no comparison.

Corrosion
12-08-2009, 03:47 AM
For me - I have to go off of the body of work of each player

McCoy has to be at the top of the list - better than 70% completion for his career (An NCAA Record), and has won more games than any QB college football history. His last game might not have been his best BUT he found a way to WIN. 45-6. Probably would have won it last year if not for one Michael Crabtree TD .....

Suh
Tebow
Gerhart
Ingram

nunusguy
12-08-2009, 06:29 AM
The BCS just gave the Longhorns the biggest Christmas gift they could ever expect to receive with another play after double zeros on the clock Saturday in Arlington, so I can't believe the Heisman voters would do it again
by rewarding the Heisman to the guy who really should have be the biggest goat in college football history ? That would be too scandalous after what's happened already over the weekend.
I'm thinking they surprise us by giving the award to the years best football player Suh, who's also got to be a big sentimental favorite after the BCS shafted him and his whole team over the weekend.

TD
12-08-2009, 07:57 AM
The BCS just gave the Longhorns the biggest Christmas gift they could ever expect to receive with another play after double zeros on the clock Saturday in Arlington.....

BS argument. What exactly is the cutoff for correcting a clock operator's error? 2 seconds? 3 seconds? 10 seconds? Either fixing an error is right or it isn't and this was a CRYSTAL CLEAR error of the clock. The "gift" would have been to Nebraska had it not been corrected.

kastofsna
12-08-2009, 08:30 AM
For me - I have to go off of the body of work of each player

it's not a career award, sorry

Kaiser Toro
12-08-2009, 08:35 AM
it's not a career award, sorry

Nor is it based on any criteria other than the whim of lazy voters.

bah007
12-08-2009, 09:18 AM
Nor is it based on any criteria other than the whim of lazy voters.

True. But looking at the other candidates, I don't really see an argument for Colt winning it.

Kaiser Toro
12-08-2009, 09:20 AM
True. But looking at the other candidates, I don't really see an argument for Colt winning it.

Nor do I.

kastofsna
12-08-2009, 09:20 AM
Nor is it based on any criteria other than the whim of lazy voters.

no doubt. apparently 10% of the voters actually submitted their vote before the conference championships. unless you think the player who deserves it the most isn't playing, why would one do that?

Goatcheese
12-08-2009, 09:47 AM
I don't see how they can give it to anyone other than Suh. He's maybe the most dominant college defensive player in NCAA history. The offensive players aren't doing anything that we don't see every other year. They're good players, but clearly not the most outstanding players in college football. None of the offensive performances would even be good enough for consideration for the heisman last year.

TD
12-08-2009, 10:54 AM
no doubt. apparently 10% of the voters actually submitted their vote before the conference championships. unless you think the player who deserves it the most isn't playing, why would one do that?

Because its a "regular season" award. Bowl games don't count because not everybody plays in one....is the same not true of the conference championship?

kastofsna
12-08-2009, 11:06 AM
Because its a "regular season" award. Bowl games don't count because not everybody plays in one....is the same not true of the conference championship?

bowl games don't count because they're the postseason. the championship game is considered the regular season since major bowl matchups are not determined until after they're played, and the final BCS standings is immediately after them.

TD
12-08-2009, 11:14 AM
bowl games don't count because they're the postseason. the championship game is considered the regular season since major bowl matchups are not determined until after they're played, and the final BCS standings is immediately after them.

I get what you are saying, but I disagree. Regular season games are scheduled...post season games are earned. THAT is the differentiator.

For all the talk of the BCS mattering, the reality is that it is still a mythical award. There is no NCAA postseason other than the conference championships. That the bowl invites come after is irrelevant....they are not NCAA games.

kastofsna
12-08-2009, 12:54 PM
you EARN your way into a conference championship.

you get INVITED to a bowl game.

they're very different.

TD
12-08-2009, 01:06 PM
you EARN your way into a conference championship.

you get INVITED to a bowl game.

they're very different.

lol...for BCS games you have to use the most liberal interpretation of the word "invite". The title game and hosts of the other bowl games are mandated based on conference standings and the polls. OSU and Oregon to Rose - mandated; GA Tech to Orange - Mandated;Texas vs Alabama - Mandated. Sounds earned to me.

Anyway, invited vs earned is irrelevant. Simply put, to punish or reward a Heisman candidate because his team got (or was excluded from) an EXTRA game (Earned OR Invited) is unfair. The playing field is uneven enough with piling on that added element.

mexican_texan
12-08-2009, 08:30 PM
True. But looking at the other candidates, I don't really see an argument for Colt winning it.
Voters who sent in their ballot after the A&M game could propel Colt to the top.

rmartin65
12-08-2009, 09:04 PM
If someone other than Suh or Gerhart win, this trophy is hollow. They were the best players on the field when they played. I know, alot of people would rather see Ingram win it, but statistically there is no comparison.

bah007
12-08-2009, 10:33 PM
Voters who sent in their ballot after the A&M game could propel Colt to the top.

There will be some that did that, there that won't be so many that it will cause McCoy to win.

If he wins, it will be because a lot of people voted for him, not just the people who voted early.

kastofsna
12-11-2009, 12:26 AM
Suh has more tackles for loss, sacks, quarterback hurries, broken up passes, forced fumbles and blocked kicks than Alabama's entire defensive line this season

bah007
12-11-2009, 03:36 AM
Ingram was the only Heisman finalist to leave the awards presentation empty handed so he is probably a sure bet to win the Heisman.

theanswer000
12-11-2009, 03:47 AM
suh or mccoy will win.

beerlover
12-11-2009, 05:11 AM
If someone other than Suh or Gerhart win, this trophy is hollow. They were the best players on the field when they played. I know, alot of people would rather see Ingram win it, but statistically there is no comparison.

I heard it from the grapevine, Ingram is running away with it :peek:

Kaiser Toro
12-11-2009, 06:49 AM
Because its a "regular season" award. Bowl games don't count because not everybody plays in one....is the same not true of the conference championship?

The "regular" season is not over. Army/Navy is this weekend.

Mr. White
12-11-2009, 08:53 AM
Ingram was the only Heisman finalist to leave the awards presentation empty handed so he is probably a sure bet to win the Heisman.

I never heard about this theory before this morning. The Walter Camp or Davey O'Brien award winner never is the kiss of death for a Heisman candidate. At least that's how I heard it.

I heard it from the grapevine, Ingram is running away with it :peek:

I actually hope Colt doesn't win the Heisman. Seems like the Heisman winner's team usually loses whenever they play for the NC.

If Colt loses the Heisman, the the Horns will come in with a bigger chip on their shoulder then they already have. And they need all the help they can get against Bama.

kastofsna
12-11-2009, 10:05 AM
Ingram will win, that's obvious

BigBull17
12-11-2009, 10:53 AM
I heard it from the grapevine, Ingram is running away with it :peek:

Then people neeed to lose their vote. Suh not winning it makes it pointless. He is far and away the best player in the country.

Goatcheese
12-11-2009, 11:35 AM
Ingram will win, that's obvious

Yet another generic offensive skill position player, having a generic season, putting up generic numbers, running through holes 10 yards wide, that a quadriplegic midget with down syndrome could average 5 ypc running through.

Ingram isn't even top 10 in rushing. You could spot him 1,000 yards and 10 touchdowns, and his year would still be less impressive than Suh's.

badboy
12-11-2009, 11:40 AM
Yet another generic offensive skill position player, having a generic season, putting up generic numbers, running through holes 10 yards wide, that a quadriplegic midget with down syndrome could average 5 ypc running through.

Ingram isn't even top 10 in rushing. You could spot him 1,000 yards and 10 touchdowns, and his year would still be less impressive than Suh's.Wow, if he were eligible the Texans should draft him!

kastofsna
12-11-2009, 12:16 PM
Yet another generic offensive skill position player, having a generic season, putting up generic numbers, running through holes 10 yards wide, that a quadriplegic midget with down syndrome could average 5 ypc running through.

Ingram isn't even top 10 in rushing. You could spot him 1,000 yards and 10 touchdowns, and his year would still be less impressive than Suh's.

yup. he's not even the best at his position in the conference. Dixon at MSU is a better player.

Suh on Washington State will still be the best player in the country and the number one pick. Ingram on Washington State is...nobody.

Mr. White
12-11-2009, 12:23 PM
Somebody help me out here.

What's the correlation between a guy not winning Davey O'Brien and Walter Camp and that same guy winning the Heisman?

Why is it that Ingram not winning any awards makes for the assumption that he'll win the Heisman?

rmartin65
12-11-2009, 12:42 PM
Somebody help me out here.

What's the correlation between a guy not winning Davey O'Brien and Walter Camp and that same guy winning the Heisman?

Why is it that Ingram not winning any awards makes for the assumption that he'll win the Heisman?

That is what I am thinking. He won no RB awards, so they are going to say he is the most outstanding player? He was not even the most outstanding RB in the SEC.

Blake
12-11-2009, 12:44 PM
Somebody help me out here.

What's the correlation between a guy not winning Davey O'Brien and Walter Camp and that same guy winning the Heisman?

Why is it that Ingram not winning any awards makes for the assumption that he'll win the Heisman?

Not sayin, just sayin.

Troy Smith
2006 Walter Camp Award
2006 Davey O'Brien Award
2006 Heisman Trophy

Tim Tebow
2007 Davey O'Brien Award winner
2007 Heisman Trophy winner

Sam Bradford
2008 Davey O'Brien Award winner
2008 Heisman Trophy winner

Colt McCoy
2009 Davey O'Brien Award winner
Heisman? TBD.

bah007
12-11-2009, 12:50 PM
Y'all need to check out this website:

http://stiffarmtrophy.com/

They have correctly predicted the winner seven years in a row. They will be making their final prediction later today. Expect it to be Ingram.

bah007
12-11-2009, 12:53 PM
Somebody help me out here.

What's the correlation between a guy not winning Davey O'Brien and Walter Camp and that same guy winning the Heisman?

Why is it that Ingram not winning any awards makes for the assumption that he'll win the Heisman?

This theory hasn't held true in recent years. But in the past, when the Heisman race was close the "other guys" would be sent home with the majority of the college football awards so they wouldn't feel cheated when they didn't win the Heisman. They would at least win something.

beerlover
12-12-2009, 10:24 AM
I think the late season push of both Gerhart & Ndamukong Suh cancel each other out while Ingram sneaks underneath the pile for http://jcrue.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/heisman-trophy.jpg

eriadoc
12-12-2009, 12:30 PM
Ten SI writers voted in the Heisman, and six of them voted Suh first. Two more voted him second, and one imbecile didn't even have Suh on his ballot.

LINK (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/football/ncaa/12/09/heisman/index.html#?eref=sihp)

kastofsna
12-12-2009, 01:27 PM
Ten SI writers voted in the Heisman, and six of them voted Suh first. Two more voted him second, and one imbecile didn't even have Suh on his ballot.

LINK (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/football/ncaa/12/09/heisman/index.html#?eref=sihp)

and he's the only guy to have Tebow on his list.

mexican_texan
12-12-2009, 02:42 PM
Y'all need to check out this website:

http://stiffarmtrophy.com/

They have correctly predicted the winner seven years in a row. They will be making their final prediction later today. Expect it to be Ingram.
M Ingram 48.1%
T Gerhart 44.7%
N Suh 42.8%
C McCoy 33.8%
T Tebow 10.6%

rmartin65
12-12-2009, 06:59 PM
Ceremony on ESPN right now.

bah007
12-12-2009, 07:39 PM
Why is Tebow even there?

I thought they only invited guys who had a legitimate shot at winning?...

Wolf
12-12-2009, 07:55 PM
mark ingram wins

rmartin65
12-12-2009, 07:55 PM
BS. Should have been Suh or Gerhart.

treduke
12-12-2009, 07:56 PM
the guys at siffarm did it again!

GuerillaBlack
12-12-2009, 07:57 PM
Ingram was good though.

Wolf
12-12-2009, 08:01 PM
Toby finished 2nd by 28 points

rmartin65
12-12-2009, 08:03 PM
Ingram was good though.

Yes, he was good. But the Heisman does not go to a good player, it is supposed to go to the most outstanding. Eh.

TheRealJoker
12-12-2009, 08:03 PM
So much for "most outstanding player in college football" the Heisman cannot even get the most outstanding player in an offensive skill position right!!!

treduke
12-12-2009, 08:07 PM
really thought gerhart was going to when
congrats to ingram first player in the history of alabama to win the award
hard to believe

Goldensilence
12-12-2009, 10:05 PM
Have to say overall I'm unimpressed despite such a close vote.

Should've been Gerhart or Suh. Gerhart was stepped up when his team needed him in big upsets in the PAC 10 and put Stanford back on map as a program.

Suh. All I gotta say is when you are a DL and you lead your team in tackles and passes defensed you're damn good. Kid domianted the LOS.

It was a joke to have Tebow invited as well.

bah007
12-12-2009, 10:42 PM
Ingram is deserving, but he isn't the most deserving (if that makes any sense).

McCoy is more valuable to his team, Gerhart has better stats, and Suh is the most talented. Probably the main reason why the Heisman is flawed is because they change the criteria for it every year without ever really defining what they are anyway.

SAMURAITEXAN
12-12-2009, 11:07 PM
For DT to be noticed is so difficult. But to me, Suh is most deserving.

JB
12-13-2009, 09:55 AM
For Ingram to win this is a total joke. Thiss appears to be no more than a sympathy vote for Alabama...gee were sorry you have never won a Heisman before and even though Ingram is not the best RB in FBS, or even in his own conference, we are giving you this as a reward for going undefeated and owning Florida.

Come on please... this trophy has now lost all credibility as an indicator of the most outstanding player award.

LonerATO
12-13-2009, 10:42 AM
For Ingram to win this is a total joke. Thiss appears to be no more than a sympathy vote for Alabama...gee were sorry you have never won a Heisman before and even though Ingram is not the best RB in FBS, or even in his own conference, we are giving you this as a reward for going undefeated and owning Florida.

Come on please... this trophy has now lost all credibility as an indicator of the most outstanding player award.

How did you not know this was a bunk award a few years ago. I had some hope that Suh could win after all the hype he got after the Big 12 Championship. I was kind of pissed about some of the voters and how many cast their ballot before the championships games. This voter is a prime example of bad voting

http://campuscorner.kansascity.com/node/525

treduke
12-13-2009, 11:17 AM
For Ingram to win this is a total joke. Thiss appears to be no more than a sympathy vote for Alabama...gee were sorry you have never won a Heisman before and even though Ingram is not the best RB in FBS, or even in his own conference, we are giving you this as a reward for going undefeated and owning Florida.

Come on please... this trophy has now lost all credibility as an indicator of the most outstanding player award.

the heisman lost credibility with me years ago. it's become nothing more than a popularity contest! i personally put more stock in the walker and camp and maxwell awards, because the people behind those awards dont have a hidden agenda. no way espn was gonna let gerhart or mccoy win the heisman because they've probably already did the E:60 story on ingram

JB
12-13-2009, 11:18 AM
How did you not know this was a bunk award a few years ago. I had some hope that Suh could win after all the hype he got after the Big 12 Championship. I was kind of pissed about some of the voters and how many cast their ballot before the championships games. This voter is a prime example of bad voting

http://campuscorner.kansascity.com/node/525

my god that's terrible! That guy should lose his right to cast a ballot. Tebow 1st?

BigBull17
12-14-2009, 08:19 AM
For Ingram to win this is a total joke. Thiss appears to be no more than a sympathy vote for Alabama...gee were sorry you have never won a Heisman before and even though Ingram is not the best RB in FBS, or even in his own conference, we are giving you this as a reward for going undefeated and owning Florida.

Come on please... this trophy has now lost all credibility as an indicator of the most outstanding player award.

Suh 4th? Complete joke.

JB
12-14-2009, 11:07 AM
Suh 4th? Complete joke.

Absolutely!

badboy
12-14-2009, 11:16 AM
Excellent ending and why I think so.

Tebow: had his shot at glory already and will probably be drafted first round.
Suh: I can't cry for him. He will be top 3 if not first pick.
McCoy: Heisman would not effect his draft slot or his ability to be NFL QB. UT may used as incentative against Alabama.
Ingram: if he goes pro, trophy may help him be selected high and allow my guy Gerhart to drop to Texans.

Gerhart: okay so I'm selfish. I know what he can do and I want him to do it in Houston. After he does well at combine, I am hoping out of sight, out of mind and he falls to round three. I do not think Smith will select a back in first two rounds. With everybyd loving the Slaton & Chris Johnson type back, I'm hoping a few of those go before Toby. Brighten up RMartin65, this could have been the best thing for us.

rmartin65
12-14-2009, 11:24 AM
Excellent ending and why I think so.

Tebow: had his shot at glory already and will probably be drafted first round.
Suh: I can't cry for him. He will be top 3 if not first pick.
McCoy: Heisman would not effect his draft slot or his ability to be NFL QB. UT may used as incentative against Alabama.
Ingram: if he goes pro, trophy may help him be selected high and allow my guy Gerhart to drop to Texans.

Gerhart: okay so I'm selfish. I know what he can do and I want him to do it in Houston. After he does well at combine, I am hoping out of sight, out of mind and he falls to round three. I do not think Smith will select a back in first two rounds. With everybyd loving the Slaton & Chris Johnson type back, I'm hoping a few of those go before Toby. Brighten up RMartin65, this could have been the best thing for us.

Haha, looking at the brightside of things, I like it. I would be more than willing to accept this outcome, if the Texans draft Gerhart.

Draft Toby Gerhart 2010!

badboy
12-14-2009, 11:37 AM
Haha, looking at the brightside of things, I like it. I would be more than willing to accept this outcome, if the Texans draft Gerhart.

Draft Toby Gerhart 2010!On another thread, I posted a link from Walters rating RBs in Oct and our guy was ranked #7. I sure hope so. I enjoyed watching him on the Heisman show. He looked very humble and real to me.

TD
12-14-2009, 11:40 AM
Jilted Texas quarterback takes on Heisman winning running back for BCS national championship. I swear I have seen this movie before.

beerlover
12-14-2009, 11:42 AM
c'mon guys Gerhart will be gone by the Texans 2nd rd. pick stop fooling yourself w/3rd rd. illusions.

they could just take Toby in 1st maybe trade down & pick up another pick in the process or take C.J. Spiller, Clemson he reminds me alot of Chris Johnson :shades:

TexansSeminole
12-14-2009, 11:48 AM
c'mon guys Gerhart will be gone by the Texans 2nd rd. pick stop fooling yourself w/3rd rd. illusions.

they could just take Toby in 1st maybe trade down & pick up another pick in the process or take C.J. Spiller, Clemson he reminds me alot of Chris Johnson :shades:


Spiller reminds me of Darren McFadden.

beerlover
12-14-2009, 11:52 AM
Spiller reminds me of Darren McFadden.

I don't get that. McFadden is much taller & runs upright. CJ is only 5-11 maybe & 195. Chris Johnson was also 5-11 197 coming out of E. Carolina.

rmartin65
12-14-2009, 11:59 AM
c'mon guys Gerhart will be gone by the Texans 2nd rd. pick stop fooling yourself w/3rd rd. illusions.

they could just take Toby in 1st maybe trade down & pick up another pick in the process or take C.J. Spiller, Clemson he reminds me alot of Chris Johnson :shades:

Yep, I am down with this. Late 1st early second is where I have him pegged, but a guy can dream no? I stand by what I have said earlier, I would pick Gerhart with any pick after 22. I believe he is that good. If our pick rolls around (around 15), and Haden and Thomas are gone, I would trade back to 26 or so, pick up a 3rd (similar to the Brown trade) and draft Gerhart in the first.

I agree with the Spiller assessment. I see him as a Johnson type player, probably not as good. But he can return kicks, which is a great benefit.

bah007
12-14-2009, 12:06 PM
Excellent ending and why I think so.

Tebow: had his shot at glory already and will probably be drafted first round.
Suh: I can't cry for him. He will be top 3 if not first pick.
McCoy: Heisman would not effect his draft slot or his ability to be NFL QB. UT may used as incentative against Alabama.
Ingram: if he goes pro, trophy may help him be selected high and allow my guy Gerhart to drop to Texans.

Gerhart: okay so I'm selfish. I know what he can do and I want him to do it in Houston. After he does well at combine, I am hoping out of sight, out of mind and he falls to round three. I do not think Smith will select a back in first two rounds. With everybyd loving the Slaton & Chris Johnson type back, I'm hoping a few of those go before Toby. Brighten up RMartin65, this could have been the best thing for us.

Ingram is a true sophomore so he can't go pro. And a guy isn't going to get drafted higher just because he won the Heisman trophy. Scouts know what they see and they have the same opinions about all these guys as they did before the award was handed out.

badboy
12-14-2009, 12:09 PM
Ingram is a true sophomore so he can't go pro. And a guy isn't going to get drafted higher just because he won the Heisman trophy. Scouts know what they see and they have the same opinions about all these guys as they did before the award was handed out.My bad thanks. I kept reminding myself, he a soph but went DODO.

badboy
12-14-2009, 12:11 PM
Yep, I am down with this. Late 1st early second is where I have him pegged, but a guy can dream no? I stand by what I have said earlier, I would pick Gerhart with any pick after 22. I believe he is that good. If our pick rolls around (around 15), and Haden and Thomas are gone, I would trade back to 26 or so, pick up a 3rd (similar to the Brown trade) and draft Gerhart in the first.

I agree with the Spiller assessment. I see him as a Johnson type player, probably not as good. But he can return kicks, which is a great benefit.A trade down scenario if Haden is gone (Thomas may return to school) would be great. I am going to be focusing on Mike Johnson OG when Alabama plays Texas.

BigBull17
12-14-2009, 01:36 PM
Jilted Texas quarterback takes on Heisman winning running back for BCS national championship. I swear I have seen this movie before.

Oh God. He'll kill Bama, UT fan's will raid the boards with the Draft McCoy or bust attitude, he'll go to Jville and people will say "All he does is win baby"...

Goldensilence
12-14-2009, 01:59 PM
Excellent ending and why I think so.

Tebow: had his shot at glory already and will probably be drafted first round.
Suh: I can't cry for him. He will be top 3 if not first pick.
McCoy: Heisman would not effect his draft slot or his ability to be NFL QB. UT may used as incentative against Alabama.
Ingram: if he goes pro, trophy may help him be selected high and allow my guy Gerhart to drop to Texans.

Gerhart: okay so I'm selfish. I know what he can do and I want him to do it in Houston. After he does well at combine, I am hoping out of sight, out of mind and he falls to round three. I do not think Smith will select a back in first two rounds. With everybyd loving the Slaton & Chris Johnson type back, I'm hoping a few of those go before Toby. Brighten up RMartin65, this could have been the best thing for us.

Who the hell will draft Tebow in the first? I think the earliest he goes is the second round.

I don't think Toby is going to blow people away at the combine. I think he'll do well enough to put himself in the second round.

LonerATO
12-14-2009, 02:15 PM
Who the hell will draft Tebow in the first? I think the earliest he goes is the second round.

I don't think Toby is going to blow people away at the combine. I think he'll do well enough to put himself in the second round.

Jacksonville in the 1st so they can put people in the stadium

bah007
12-14-2009, 02:34 PM
Oh God. He'll kill Bama, UT fan's will raid the boards with the Draft McCoy or bust attitude, he'll go to Jville and people will say "All he does is win baby"...

You won't see this Texas fan saying that. I love Colt for all that he has done at UT, but I want no part of him on the Texans. I don't think he projects very well to the next level.

Most of the UT fans that frequent this board can separate college from the pros. Unfortunately, not all of us can be that rational.

Goldensilence
12-14-2009, 02:46 PM
Jacksonville in the 1st so they can put people in the stadium

What would he do? I don't think Garrard is all-pro but, he's good enough to start and does well with what Jacksonville does. Add that onto the recent contract he signed.

I just don't think Tebow translates well to the next level as a pro style QB.

If Jax really does want him he'll be available in the second and possibly third round.

TexansSeminole
12-14-2009, 02:55 PM
I don't get that. McFadden is much taller & runs upright. CJ is only 5-11 maybe & 195. Chris Johnson was also 5-11 197 coming out of E. Carolina.

Spiller runs upright as well. Both have questionable leg power. Both have blazing speed. Both struggle to run inside.

Seems like a good comparison to me.

Spiller is pretty much useless running inside. He is also injured constantly. I don't know if I would trust Spiller with a 1st round pick. I would probably be hesistant in the second as well.

BigBull17
12-14-2009, 03:14 PM
You won't see this Texas fan saying that. I love Colt for all that he has done at UT, but I want no part of him on the Texans. I don't think he projects very well to the next level.

Most of the UT fans that frequent this board can separate college from the pros. Unfortunately, not all of us can be that rational.

It would be the influzz who came in here right befor the draft. You remember 06.

badboy
12-14-2009, 03:14 PM
Who the hell will draft Tebow in the first? I think the earliest he goes is the second round. I don't think Toby is going to blow people away at the combine. I think he'll do well enough to put himself in the second round.Walterfootball.com has Jacksonville projected taking Tebow #21 http://walterfootball.com/draft2010_1.php

Tim Tebow is a PR baby and I would not be shocked if drafted in first or if he falls. Matters little to me except for him taking a spot to allow my picks to fall the way I want.

Another link; http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2449566/where_will_tim_tebow_be_drafted_in_pg2.html?cat=14

Peter King http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/11/29/king-two-coaches-say-tebow-wont-get-past-them-in-round-one/

Goldensilence
12-14-2009, 03:44 PM
Walterfootball.com has Jacksonville projected taking Tebow #21 http://walterfootball.com/draft2010_1.php

Tim Tebow is a PR baby and I would not be shocked if drafted in first or if he falls. Matters little to me except for him taking a spot to allow my picks to fall the way I want.

Another link; http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2449566/where_will_tim_tebow_be_drafted_in_pg2.html?cat=14

Peter King http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/11/29/king-two-coaches-say-tebow-wont-get-past-them-in-round-one/

Ultimately I don't care where Tebow goes, because he's not going to land here.

I just think it's conveinent and lazy to project Tebow to Jags in the first round. Sure he could be a PR boon for a city that is struggling to support the team, but honestly where could he fit on the team?

At best he'd be competing with Luke McCown for the second spot as a QB. McCown isn't all that, but he's probably more technically sound at this point.

I would think they learned about trying to take a former QB and make him a WR with a first round pick.

Pretty good at RB right now.

If I'm Del Rio I use my first round pick at a better spot like help at LBer.Besides who else in the first round would take a serious look at Tebow? Or hell going into the second round? If he's there in the second I think its possible Jax takes him there.

He's just a pretty big project at QB right now.

LonerATO
12-14-2009, 04:03 PM
Ultimately I don't care where Tebow goes, because he's not going to land here.

I just think it's conveinent and lazy to project Tebow to Jags in the first round. Sure he could be a PR boon for a city that is struggling to support the team, but honestly where could he fit on the team?

At best he'd be competing with Luke McCown for the second spot as a QB. McCown isn't all that, but he's probably more technically sound at this point.

I would think they learned about trying to take a former QB and make him a WR with a first round pick.

Pretty good at RB right now.

If I'm Del Rio I use my first round pick at a better spot like help at LBer.Besides who else in the first round would take a serious look at Tebow? Or hell going into the second round? If he's there in the second I think its possible Jax takes him there.

He's just a pretty big project at QB right now.

Weaver is losing so much money that even when they have been to the playoffs that stadium is close to empty. Hell people in jacksonville cant even watch the team on TV in their own city, because they cant sell enough ticktes. Weaver would grab Tebow just to put people in the stands. Tebow doesnt have to be stelar he just has to play and Jags can do the same thing with Tebow that Philly have done with Vick this year.

badboy
12-14-2009, 04:12 PM
Ultimately I don't care where Tebow goes, because he's not going to land here.

I just think it's conveinent and lazy to project Tebow to Jags in the first round. Sure he could be a PR boon for a city that is struggling to support the team, but honestly where could he fit on the team?

At best he'd be competing with Luke McCown for the second spot as a QB. McCown isn't all that, but he's probably more technically sound at this point.

I would think they learned about trying to take a former QB and make him a WR with a first round pick.

Pretty good at RB right now.

If I'm Del Rio I use my first round pick at a better spot like help at LBer.Besides who else in the first round would take a serious look at Tebow? Or hell going into the second round? If he's there in the second I think its possible Jax takes him there.

He's just a pretty big project at QB right now.Please know that I do not disagree with your evaluation of Tebow but will be surprised if he drops out of first.

kastofsna
12-14-2009, 05:24 PM
Tebow to Jags is the sexy pick that everyone is pumping up because they assume they'll so desperately want to sell jerseys and fill seats that they'll draft a player who won't be ready to see the field for several yearss, and when he does probably won't be very good.

it just doesn't make any sense.

beerlover
12-17-2009, 05:28 AM
Tebow to Minnesota, kinda a luxury pick but Brett can't play forever. Sage & Tarvaris are nothing special. Who knows Brett might actually groom him for when he does retire? Then there is the Percy Harvin reunion, seemed to work out pretty well for them in Florida :twocents:

BattleRedToro
12-17-2009, 06:25 AM
I would think they learned about trying to take a former QB and make him a WR with a first round pick.

Yeah, because everyone knows that if you take a QB in the 1st Round and then switch him to WR he will surely violate the league's substance abuse policy. :sarcasm:

Do you know how stupid you sound making a statement like that?

Matt Jones was not a failure on the football field. He was a failure off the field.

The Jags may have been burned by the experience of drafting Matt Jones, but I doubt that would turn them off of trying to convert College QB's picked in the 1st Round into NFL WR's.

More than likely it resulted in them asking themselves if they had done enough due diligence in researching Matt Jones' personal life and for that matter in researching every player's background.

Now I don't know how Tebow will perform at the next level nor at what position he will play, but I would be really surpised if he got suspended for being involved with recreational drugs.

kastofsna
12-22-2009, 12:22 PM
Ndamukong Suh won the AP Player of the Year, the first defensive player to ever win the award.

Goldensilence
12-23-2009, 02:00 PM
Yeah, because everyone knows that if you take a QB in the 1st Round and then switch him to WR he will surely violate the league's substance abuse policy. :sarcasm:

Do you know how stupid you sound making a statement like that?

Matt Jones was not a failure on the football field. He was a failure off the field.

The Jags may have been burned by the experience of drafting Matt Jones, but I doubt that would turn them off of trying to convert College QB's picked in the 1st Round into NFL WR's.

More than likely it resulted in them asking themselves if they had done enough due diligence in researching Matt Jones' personal life and for that matter in researching every player's background.

Now I don't know how Tebow will perform at the next level nor at what position he will play, but I would be really surpised if he got suspended for being involved with recreational drugs.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?playerId=8436

Wow you're right he certainly wasn't a failure on the field. He really lit the league on fire.

I didn't think I needed to but, I suppose I should've added the sarcasm smiley for the completely dense.

I didn't mean to insult the Matt Jones fans out there who are disappointed in him.

beerlover
12-23-2009, 02:24 PM
Ndamukong Suh won the AP Player of the Year, the first defensive player to ever win the award.

One second is all that seperates Ndamukong Suh from Heisman :hurryup: