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View Full Version : Why the optimist is done with this coaching staff!


dalemurphy
12-06-2009, 11:53 PM
Their self-evaluation is horrid! Here's about a dozen examples:

1. In the off-season, they inexplicably don't address the safety position. So, they are content with Barber, Wilson, and Ferguson as primary backup. We had cap room and also players like Sean Jones available for almost nothing.

2. RB: Guys like Rashod Jennings, Javon Ringer, Gatrell Johnson... were available in the last couple rounds of the draft. They didn't address it in the draft or in FA.

3. Also, regarding RB, they come out of the bye with the idea that Chris Brown is their best option at HB... Moats looked great at Indy and today yet he couldn't get touches even with Slaton sidelined.

4. Busing!: I told Barrett early in the first quarter today, that they can't win with this guy at safety. For some reason, he played the entire first half and was responsible for almost every big play.

5. Deljuan Robinson: can't see the field, even though he's our best DT.

6. Chris White: he sucks and he isn't any more disciplined or reliable than Caldwell. There is no way he should be playing ahead of Caldwell!

7. Duane Brown!!: love him, but clearly he was hurt and ineffective today. Butler, who I have a lot of faith in, should've had the start at LT.

8. They still haven't figured out that our current group of OLmen can't run the zone scheme every freakin' play!

9. 2 weeks late pulling Fred Bennett out of the lineup!... oh yeah, what a contribution he made today on special teams.

10. Winston should've been slid into guard with Butler moved to RT... Winston isn't a very good edge pass blocker and with the injuries at guard, it's amazing to me that this hasn't even been a consideration!

11. Give Schaub some freedom to audible at the LOS!!!!!!!!.. Why on earth is Kyle Shanahan more qualified to call plays than Matt Schaub? Schaub's intelligent and knows what he's doing. Instead, they continue to handcuff him.

12. Richard Smith lasted 3 seasons! that's too long. If you're working with a guy every day for years, it shouldn't take 3 years to realize he's a moron!

stingray
12-07-2009, 12:02 AM
Great Post... I stayed behind Gary, but his stubborness has worn thin on me.

GNTLEWOLF
12-07-2009, 12:04 AM
Wow Dale! It is official, this Coaching Staff needs to go. The sky IS falling!. For the record, many of us believed this for a long time. As for your post..... the only problem I have is that Butler can't play both tackle spots at the same time. He either needs to relieve Brown or play RT so Winston can slide to RG but not both.

Jackie Chiles
12-07-2009, 12:12 AM
Fred Bennett is bitter about his benching and has decided to take out his frustration by blatantly holding people on just about every return.

Norg
12-07-2009, 12:14 AM
lets just face it we suck at all 3 phases of the game


and Some of our starters suck and some of our backups suck


we JUST SUCK !!!! LOL

DexmanC
12-07-2009, 12:39 AM
I took some heat from a couple of guys for breaking open my bar
of pink soap, but I was THE "Gary-will-turn-it-around" optimist. Today,
he removed ALL reasonable doubt by allowing Matt Schaub to hear this
play being called in his headset:

http://i47.tinypic.com/2dgu9w2.jpg

DexmanC
12-07-2009, 12:49 AM
We seem to have very few players, and now more apparently coaches, with
little to no SITUATIONAL AWARENESS!!! I watched Robert Meachum of
the Saints, A WIDE RECEIVER, shed blockers on an interception Drew Brees
threw, and STRIP THE BALL from a defender, and took it all the way for
A TOUCHDOWN.

When I look at Chris Brown attempt to throw that ball, I can't help but believe
Joseph Addai would have eaten it, but Peyton would NEVER allow that call
in that SITUATION. Other teams just seem to have more "heady" players
than us.

1st and goal, at the 5, 12+ minutes left in the FOURTH QUARTER, DOWN by ELEVEN.
It's just a horrible decision coming in from the sidelines, in that situation, multiplied
by the other dumb decision to throw the ball. Brown shouldn't have been put in that
situation by our "smart" coaches. Moats was running the ball, far better than Brown,
yet he struggles to get ANY meaningful carries on that drive. I didn't want to be done
with Kubiak, but I am. If he's around to start next season, then you'll know the Texans
have the best marketing team in the world.

DexmanC
12-07-2009, 01:13 AM
Just watched NFL Gameday Final

Deion Sanders regarding the HB Pass:
"Whoever called that play, should be terminated on the spot."

Hard to disagree with that.

Jackie Chiles
12-07-2009, 01:16 AM
Just watched NFL Gameday Final

Deion Sanders regarding the HB Pass:
"Whoever called that play, should be terminated on the spot."

Hard to disagree with that.

How great would it be if that would actually happen? We all wake up and find out the news, there would be dancing in the streets after this latest debacle. I think I'll go to bed now and dream it happens. Hopefully i don't dream that I am Gary Kubiak and I have to explain that call to Mr. McNair, that would probably be a nightmare.

Come on Bob, let em hang and shock everyone.

mariowillshine15
12-07-2009, 01:19 AM
How great would it be if that would actually happen? We all wake up and find out the news, there would be dancing in the streets after this latest debacle. I think I'll go to bed now and dream it happens. Hopefully i don't dream that I am Gary Kubiak and I have to explain that call to Mr. McNair, that would probably be a nightmare.

Come on Bob, let em hang and shock everyone.

I could imagine how that goes

Kubiak: Bob its all on me.

McNair: Shut up you bafoon! Its been your fault since i hired your dumbass its time to put a stop to it.

McNair(in his best Vince Mcmahon voice): YOUUURR FIIRREEDD!!

steelbtexan
12-07-2009, 01:24 AM
Dale and Dex

I'm glad to see that y'all got on board the it's time train.

All Aboard

Corrosion
12-07-2009, 03:30 AM
Count me in .... I might even trade in my "we're screwed" for some pink soap.

TexanBacker93
12-07-2009, 05:38 AM
How great would it be if that would actually happen? We all wake up and find out the news, there would be dancing in the streets after this latest debacle. I think I'll go to bed now and dream it happens. Hopefully i don't dream that I am Gary Kubiak and I have to explain that call to Mr. McNair, that would probably be a nightmare.

Come on Bob, let em hang and shock everyone.

I'm at the point now where I'd rather McNair fire him on Christmas. He deserves it.

dalemurphy
12-07-2009, 05:56 AM
I'm at the point now where I'd rather McNair fire him on Christmas. He deserves it.

I'm not angry like I was in 2005. I really like Kubiak and I think he's done a lot to turn this organization around. So, I don't wish him ill and I won't look at his firing, if it happens, as a good day. I just think it is neccessary at this point if McNair can bring in a better head coach.

Runner
12-07-2009, 06:17 AM
Their self-evaluation is horrid! Here's about a dozen examples:

1. In the off-season, they inexplicably don't address the safety position. So, they are content with Barber, Wilson, and Ferguson as primary backup. We had cap room and also players like Sean Jones available for almost nothing.

2. RB: Guys like Rashod Jennings, Javon Ringer, Gatrell Johnson... were available in the last couple rounds of the draft. They didn't address it in the draft or in FA.

3. Also, regarding RB, they come out of the bye with the idea that Chris Brown is their best option at HB... Moats looked great at Indy and today yet he couldn't get touches even with Slaton sidelined.

4. Busing!: I told Barrett early in the first quarter today, that they can't win with this guy at safety. For some reason, he played the entire first half and was responsible for almost every big play.

5. Deljuan Robinson: can't see the field, even though he's our best DT.

6. Chris White: he sucks and he isn't any more disciplined or reliable than Caldwell. There is no way he should be playing ahead of Caldwell!

7. Duane Brown!!: love him, but clearly he was hurt and ineffective today. Butler, who I have a lot of faith in, should've had the start at LT.

8. They still haven't figured out that our current group of OLmen can't run the zone scheme every freakin' play!

9. 2 weeks late pulling Fred Bennett out of the lineup!... oh yeah, what a contribution he made today on special teams.

10. Winston should've been slid into guard with Butler moved to RT... Winston isn't a very good edge pass blocker and with the injuries at guard, it's amazing to me that this hasn't even been a consideration!

11. Give Schaub some freedom to audible at the LOS!!!!!!!!.. Why on earth is Kyle Shanahan more qualified to call plays than Matt Schaub? Schaub's intelligent and knows what he's doing. Instead, they continue to handcuff him.

12. Richard Smith lasted 3 seasons! that's too long. If you're working with a guy every day for years, it shouldn't take 3 years to realize he's a moron!

C'mon man, you've been ignoring lists of opinions, facts, and evidence like this since last off-season. Why get frustrated with Kubes now? Just say, "4-0" and continue being exasperated with those that don't see the clarity of your vision of Smithiak and "the right way" of building a team.

:)

dalemurphy
12-07-2009, 06:32 AM
C'mon man, you've been ignoring lists of opinions, facts, and evidence like this since last off-season. Why get frustrated with Kubes now? Just say, "4-0" and continue being exasperated with those that don't see the clarity of your vision of Smithiak and "the right way" of building a team.

:)

I think they've done a very good job of building this team. I also think Kubiak certainly deserved an opportunity to prove his philosophy/style of coaching could win. I've had concerns about some of these things and expressed them often on these boards. I've been livid about how they handled the safety position this off-season as well as this love affair that Kubiak has had with Kasey Studdard. I've also been very frustrated with the lack of imagination and playcalls in the run game and have urged posers to read Jeremy Rice stuff on that at Chron.com.

But yes, I've been irritated with pessimistic and whiny fans who have been screaming for a coaching change and predicting gloom all season. I'm not inclined to give pessimists a ton of credit for predicting failure. That's what pessimists do.

FirstTexansFan
12-07-2009, 07:10 AM
Well, I'm afraid McNair won't pull the trigger on this, and imo, it should be done immediately, giving us an opportunity for every head coach interested in the position. I just don't believe it's necessary to let this continue just to maintain a pseudo classy reputation with the league and fans. I don't hate Gary, and I truly feel he's made strides with our personnel, but, this staff has failed to recognize where they are in their progress, and they don't comprehend what it takes to get the players to the next step in that progression. I hope to hear something good today from the Texans front office, but, I fear we're just due for more of the same.

Runner
12-07-2009, 07:29 AM
C'mon man, you've been ignoring lists of opinions, facts, and evidence like this since last off-season. Why get frustrated with Kubes now? Just say, "4-0" and continue being exasperated with those that don't see the clarity of your vision of Smithiak and "the right way" of building a team.

:)

I think they've done a very good job of building this team. I also think Kubiak certainly deserved an opportunity to prove his philosophy/style of coaching could win. I've had concerns about some of these things and expressed them often on these boards. I've been livid about how they handled the safety position this off-season as well as this love affair that Kubiak has had with Kasey Studdard. I've also been very frustrated with the lack of imagination and playcalls in the run game and have urged posers to read Jeremy Rice stuff on that at Chron.com.

But yes, I've been irritated with pessimistic and whiny fans who have been screaming for a coaching change and predicting gloom all season. I'm not inclined to give pessimists a ton of credit for predicting failure. That's what pessimists do.

In not sure pessimists and optimists are the right words.

1) The "pessimists" thought the Texans should post a strong winning record.

The "optimists" argued that 8-8 might be all the Texans could manage, and that an improved 8-8 would be all right, because that would be the best any team in the the Texans situation could possibly manage. That sounds like defeatism, not optimism.

2) Are you a pessimist now, just doing what pessimists do and therefore not deserving "a ton of credit" for your thoughts? Alternately, are you a realist now that you have seen enough to think Kubiak might not be the answer?

I always thought I was being a realist last summer, since I was basing my thoughts on Kubiak and the team's performance to date and a reasonable evaluation of the team's off-season changes. The term pessimist was applied though, because on this black and white board one is either a Panglossian optimist or horrible pessimist.

FirstTexansFan
12-07-2009, 07:35 AM
[QUOTE] The term pessimist was applied though, because on this black and white board one is either a Panglossian optimist or horrible pessimist.

Way to make me feel stupid lol



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

JB
12-07-2009, 07:35 AM
OK How do I get the soap?

Honoring Earl 34
12-07-2009, 07:56 AM
Their self-evaluation is horrid! Here's about a dozen examples:

1. In the off-season, they inexplicably don't address the safety position. So, they are content with Barber, Wilson, and Ferguson as primary backup. We had cap room and also players like Sean Jones available for almost nothing.

This guy is way over rated by the staff . He can't outrun our LBs .

2. RB: Guys like Rashod Jennings, Javon Ringer, Gatrell Johnson... were available in the last couple rounds of the draft. They didn't address it in the draft or in FA.

Should have never signed Chris Brown and then when you had a chance to cut your losses , they empowered him even more .

3. Also, regarding RB, they come out of the bye with the idea that Chris Brown is their best option at HB... Moats looked great at Indy and today yet he couldn't get touches even with Slaton sidelined.

I despise coaching like this , the kind that refuses to go with the hot hand because it messes up their routine . If I was coaching basketball and I had a guy come off the bench and hit 14 out of 18 shots , I'm not going to bench him the next game .

4. Busing!: I told Barrett early in the first quarter today, that they can't win with this guy at safety. For some reason, he played the entire first half and was responsible for almost every big play.

Same player as Barber .

5. Deljuan Robinson: can't see the field, even though he's our best DT.

After seeing Okoye thrashed around on short yardage plays , I couldn't agree more .

6. Chris White: he sucks and he isn't any more disciplined or reliable than Caldwell. There is no way he should be playing ahead of Caldwell!

No way White would play on any other team but the Texans . I guess you could say he shouldn't be playing for the Texans .

7. Duane Brown!!: love him, but clearly he was hurt and ineffective today. Butler, who I have a lot of faith in, should've had the start at LT.

8. They still haven't figured out that our current group of OLmen can't run the zone scheme every freakin' play!

It's not their fault the Jags have to DTs that weigh 335 lbs .

9. 2 weeks late pulling Fred Bennett out of the lineup!... oh yeah, what a contribution he made today on special teams.

10. Winston should've been slid into guard with Butler moved to RT... Winston isn't a very good edge pass blocker and with the injuries at guard, it's amazing to me that this hasn't even been a consideration!

11. Give Schaub some freedom to audible at the LOS!!!!!!!!.. Why on earth is Kyle Shanahan more qualified to call plays than Matt Schaub? Schaub's intelligent and knows what he's doing. Instead, they continue to handcuff him.

I guess they think it's Madden .

12. Richard Smith lasted 3 seasons! that's too long. If you're working with a guy every day for years, it shouldn't take 3 years to realize he's a moron!You wonder if everyone else turned him down .





Having said all this , let's look at the Jags .

They start two rookie OTs , a rookie CB , and a rookie DT who weighs 335 lb out of Temple . The things we say we need to do ... they did .

Scooter
12-07-2009, 08:11 AM
12 points that i have absolutely no arguement against, and why i cant fault any of the pink soap club. we've flawed too many decisions for it to go unnoticed. if kubiak was fired tomorrow it'd be justified. every time i think about it though, i cant join in because of where we are, where we're missing, and where we could be by staying the course. excuses to come ...

0-4 since owen daniels went down and a complete inability to find the middle of the field. obviously we knew how much daniels does for this offense, but we wildly overestimated what this offense would be without him. the rest of the tightends on our roster barely combine for the season what daniels would've done in 2 of his missed 4 games. the closest presence we have is 3rd down anderson who relies on especially creative route design to open him up.

what happened to schaub's accuracy? good decisions and timely throws are still there more often than not, but schaub's staple has been his accuracy which has gone down the tubes - or down to the dirt where most passes recently have ended up. this is an area where kubiak's effect should be seen - getting schaub back into rhythem and righting the minor mechanics that have gone off course.

running game ... nonexistant at the beginning of the season but has shown some flashes of improvement during the year. that improvement's been slow and hasnt manifested into more however by the loss of both starting guards (one being the most experienced player on the roster at 30yrs old) and a fumbling problem by our entire backfield. slaton's sophmore slump and added weight (and recent injury) has taken what was supposed to be the answer to our offensive balance and made it our biggest weakness. kubiak brought in joe gibbs and bruce mathews ... no, wait ... KUBIAK BROUGHT IN JOE GIBBS AND BRUCE MATTHEWS. this is what you have with a 4 year old line + pitts (and minus my hall of famer spencer).

penalties ... defense, special teams, backups, and blown calls. as much as we want to put those on kubiak, and arguably should, these belong to the players and their coaches. kevin walter's are just plain fluke, if he has more than 2 for the rest of his career it'd be a suprise. dunta robinson had i think his first penalty free game - but being his contract and talent and possible trade benefits, the handcuffs are on. fred bennett holding goes up the chain from himself to marciano - not down from kubiak. an arguement can be given that chris white shouldnt be given an opportunity to false start, and i agree that caldwell should be getting most of the snaps, but i'm not attending practices. regardless, all 53 players have to be trusted to do their job.

false expectations ... last season we had a wholly healthy offense minus schaub for a few games, who was backed up by someone with MORE experience. that's far from the case this season as young players are being replaced by younger players (pitts having as much experience as our starting line combined) - seeing the very epitome of inconsistancy. that inconsistancy showing as 3 of our standout 5 defensive players are in their first year, 2 of which are rookies ... mario, demeco, CUSHING, POLLARD, QUIN.

missed opportunities ... calling your best plays only to have missed fieldgoals and being stoned by the cardinals defense and your heaviest runningback fumble a moment before crossing the endzone. dunta winning the superbowl on a 3 yard tackle and not having the players back in position is a lack of veteran leadership on the field (of which he should actually be that guy), not from the sidelines. again, these work up the chain through the players to position coaches as failing their assignments, not down. design the play, run it over and over in practice, call your winner when it matters - those are the coach's jobs. "executing" is something for the millionares on the field to do (yeah that word makes me cringe too, but it has to be applied). the response here is "well then, fire them" ... them is gibbs, shanahan, matthews, and bush. all but one being in their first season at the position with the texans, and the one (gibbs) if he sticks around next season will quite possibly be the angriest man on the planet during the offseason.

despite these things, we came into yesterday's game with the 6th ranked offense. because of these things however, our options have significantly diminished. while there's no excuse for ever letting chris brown throw a pass, the result of missing players and innefficent results on what is supposed to be our most reliable is forcing playcalling. asking casey to block on the end, hoping to lean on dreessen diagnosing zones mid route, having the option of youth or inexperience or playing a new position on the line, forcing screens, not having the option of a draw, and many more are the reality of what we as fans are expecting to squeeze diamonds out of. given the chance to continue what we have or take the 50/50 hope that someone else can improve, i'm in favor of staying the course. continuing to draft extremely well, continuing to build respectible depth, continuing to bring in character.

again, the pink soap club gets no hate from me - but until i see an option that gives me more hope than where i see the texans in the next several seasons, i cant in good faith join in. i see kubiak's failures, but i'm not going to give him a failing grade as a coach until he's given a chance to finish what he started.

HOU-TEX
12-07-2009, 09:48 AM
As most already know, I've been on Kubiaks side for the most part. I really don't know why either. Maybe I just kept telling myself he was finally going to bring success to this team after his first couple seasons.

After the titan game I poured all the Kool-aid out and pissed on it. I then realized that Kubiaks coaching has actually regressed the past season or two, rather than improving.

BUT, we'll now go on our meaningless run to finish the season. Which will probably save Kubiaks job. We'll make a few off-season moves and get all giddy again for the new season. Then we go 8-8 again.

It's like freakin Groundhog Day around here!! :gun:

GP
12-07-2009, 09:56 AM
In not sure pessimists and optimists are the right words.

1) The "pessimists" thought the Texans should post a strong winning record.

The "optimists" argued that 8-8 might be all the Texans could manage, and that an improved 8-8 would be all right, because that would be the best any team in the the Texans situation could possibly manage. That sounds like defeatism, not optimism.

2) Are you a pessimist now, just doing what pessimists do and therefore not deserving "a ton of credit" for your thoughts? Alternately, are you a realist now that you have seen enough to think Kubiak might not be the answer?

I always thought I was being a realist last summer, since I was basing my thoughts on Kubiak and the team's performance to date and a reasonable evaluation of the team's off-season changes. The term pessimist was applied though, because on this black and white board one is either a Panglossian optimist or horrible pessimist.

I think it's odd when someone automatically casts their vote and says that we're going to suck. To me, that sort of person is invested in seeing to it that we DO indeed end up sucking and therefore can never take full joy in seeing any successes that might end up countering the pessimistic viewpoint laid out well before the season even began.

I stuck with "hoping for the best" during Carr's last season. Then, it was obvious that he had to go. There was zero doubt. Zilch.

I think this season, for Kubiak, is eerily similar to Carr's last season here. Carr couldn't get over the hump, and had to go. This season has proven (beyond any doubt) that Gary can not get over the hump. Both persons should be let go, so they can try and do something elsewhere, and therefore ALSO allow the Texans to rescue the whole team and place it in other hands.

You think you were right in how you viewed the season (before it even began, I might add). And some of us here think that we were right in how we viewed the season (before it even began).

In the end, it doesn't matter who is right or wrong. Unless someone gets off on it, I suppose.

houstonspartan
12-07-2009, 10:32 AM
As most already know, I've been on Kubiaks side for the most part. I really don't know why either. Maybe I just kept telling myself he was finally going to bring success to this team after his first couple seasons.

After the titan game I poured all the Kool-aid out and pissed on it. I then realized that Kubiaks coaching has actually regressed the past season or two, rather than improving.

BUT, we'll now go on our meaningless run to finish the season. Which will probably save Kubiaks job. We'll make a few off-season moves and get all giddy again for the new season. Then we go 8-8 again.

It's like freakin Groundhog Day around here!! :gun:


Yeah, but the season ticket holders are tired of this repeat and are ready to pull the plug on this movie.

Runner
12-07-2009, 10:42 AM
I think it's odd when someone automatically casts their vote and says that we're going to suck. To me, that sort of person is invested in seeing to it that we DO indeed end up sucking and therefore can never take full joy in seeing any successes that might end up countering the pessimistic viewpoint laid out well before the season even began.

I stuck with "hoping for the best" during Carr's last season. Then, it was obvious that he had to go. There was zero doubt. Zilch.

I think this season, for Kubiak, is eerily similar to Carr's last season here. Carr couldn't get over the hump, and had to go. This season has proven (beyond any doubt) that Gary can not get over the hump. Both persons should be let go, so they can try and do something elsewhere, and therefore ALSO allow the Texans to rescue the whole team and place it in other hands.

You think you were right in how you viewed the season (before it even began, I might add). And some of us here think that we were right in how we viewed the season (before it even began).

In the end, it doesn't matter who is right or wrong. Unless someone gets off on it, I suppose.

Why would I be invested in seeing the team lose just because I considered another 8-8 season a failure?

This off-season, we were discussing the team's future. We were using our foresight in discussing what we thought the future held. The posters that had the opposite opinion was also using their foresight based upon their interpretation. That's what the discussion was about.

Now however, others have changed their minds because they waited for evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. It also might be said that they've changed their conclusions based on hindsight, much like in the Carr example.

It seems some are making the point that we are somehow "bad guys" for not waiting as long as them for figuring out Kubiak wasn't the guy, and 8-8 or there abouts isn't good enough. It seems like misplaced resentment of the team's performance. After all, others are judging next year's season under Kubiak "before it even begins" right now. Is that ok?

Last summer we were discussing the future of the team. I hope the people in charge start using a little foresight rather than waiting for hindsight to guide their path.

Buffi2
12-07-2009, 10:44 AM
I was on the fence about Kubiak even after MNF-willing to give him the benefit of a lot of doubt. But yesterday's game sent me over to the pink soap side. That HB call was an insult to every fan and player, to say nothing of absolutely, positively stupid.

I don't want to hear Kubiak's explanation of that low single digit IQ call, I want him out of here. I have a feeling the team even wants him out of here - if they aren't rushing to their agents asking them to find a trade somewhere.

For sure, Schaub should have the opportunity to change a playcall. I fear once I heard that HB fiasco over the headset - I would have changed it anyway - consequences be da**ed.

I wonder if the captains can tell Kubiak to stay home Sunday.......

Texecutioner
12-07-2009, 11:25 AM
But yes, I've been irritated with pessimistic and whiny fans who have been screaming for a coaching change and predicting gloom all season. I'm not inclined to give pessimists a ton of credit for predicting failure. That's what pessimists do.

Give me a break Dale. Still trying to call people out on being pessimistic? No, it's just certain fans didn't automatically assume that the "Smithiak" regime was going to be this great regime "just because." Many people saw certain flaws in Kubiak as a HC early on and weren't near as confident in the guy and didn't like his straight "Denver South" style and certain things Kubes did reminded them of the old Capers regime. All of us weren't so quick to gulp the Kool Aid of a new regime that hadn't proven anything and weren't trying to simply justify why Kubes and Smith were this great tandem just because they looked better when compared to Capers and Casserly. That's not doom and gloom partner. That's noticing inconsistencies and a pattern of stubbornness that brought out inefficiencies that existed since Kubes first got here. Some fans simply didn't over look it. Some fans predicted failure, because that's what they honestly saw happening with the way that this staff ran this team and they were obviously right. Runner has held the same opinion for like two seasons now and he wasn't being "pessimistic." He saw the writing on the wall much earlier than most and was dead on.

GP
12-07-2009, 11:34 AM
Why would I be invested in seeing the team lose just because I considered another 8-8 season a failure?

This off-season, we were discussing the team's future. We were using our foresight in discussing what we thought the future held. The posters that had the opposite opinion was also using their foresight based upon their interpretation. That's what the discussion was about.

Now however, others have changed their minds because they waited for evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. It also might be said that they've changed their conclusions based on hindsight, much like in the Carr example.

It seems some are making the point that we are somehow "bad guys" for not waiting as long as them for figuring out Kubiak wasn't the guy, and 8-8 or there abouts isn't good enough. It seems like misplaced resentment of the team's performance. After all, others are judging next year's season under Kubiak "before it even begins" right now. Is that ok?

Last summer we were discussing the future of the team. I hope the people in charge start using a little foresight rather than waiting for hindsight to guide their path.

My opinion is that those who projected failure and doom, over the summer, were jumping too soon. It was possible that this season could be the magical year where things clicked for both coaches AND players.

Each of us, to an extent, does this. I did it with Schaub, and then he bounced back rather nicely and proved me wrong. Or...he's reverting back to what I had described him as being: Prone to injury, slow, and merely "adequate" as has been tossed around in another thread.

This season had some nice surprises, such as the defense seemingly finding a bit of a groove that it never had under Kubiak until this season.

But has featured a number of injuries on the offense, and fumbling problems by 2 out of 3 running backs which have cost us games. Bad kicks by Kris Brown, costing us games. Poorly timed interceptions and pick 6's by Schaub, costing us games. While these are not the fault of a coach, the coach has to answer for it. The coaches have cost us the MNF game, failing to shut down VY like they knew they should have (and could have) and failing to call higher-percentage playcalls (such as this Jags game, and in other similar spots over the past four seasons).

Nobody here could have predicted how this season was going to turn out. It had to be played in order to see. But having seen how Kubiak has responded, by yanking back control of the playcalling AND by burying himself in the minutea of the gameday experience (when the reports over the summer were that Kubiak would be a much better gameday coach this year) is the final proof that was needed in order to hand down a fair verdict on him.

I think life on a message board is funny, because nobody is right 100% of the time. But in the times we are right, we act like everyone who disagreed was dumb and we were brilliant for having been "right." I stand guilty of that, as does a lot of other people. If we solve that problem, we can save the world.

Ckw
12-07-2009, 11:38 AM
Give me a break Dale. Still trying to call people out on being pessimistic? No, it's just certain fans didn't automatically assume that the "Smithiak" regime was going to be this great regime "just because." Many people saw certain flaws in Kubiak as a HC early on and weren't near as confident in the guy and didn't like his straight "Denver South" style and certain things Kubes did reminded them of the old Capers regime. All of us weren't so quick to gulp the Kool Aid of a new regime that hadn't proven anything and weren't trying to simply justify why Kubes and Smith were this great tandem just because they looked better when compared to Capers and Casserly. That's not doom and gloom partner. That's noticing inconsistencies and a pattern of stubbornness that brought out inefficiencies that existed since Kubes first got here. Some fans simply didn't over look it. Some fans predicted failure, because that's what they honestly saw happening with the way that this staff ran this team and they were obviously right. Runner has held the same opinion for like two seasons now and he wasn't being "pessimistic." He saw the writing on the wall much earlier than most and was dead on.

Call it pessimism, call it optimism, call it whatever you want. The fact is none of us could have accurately predicted what would happen with this regime. At the end of last season, this team really seemed to be headed in the right direction. The "optimists" were justified in their belief that things were good in Texans land, and the offense and defense would both be improved upon and an 8-8 could very realistically become a 10-6 team. At the same time, the "pessimists" were justified in questioning Kubiak's abilities as a head coach due to poor clock management, "cute" playcalling, and a sense that Kubiak lacked the confidence to take a team of "losers" and make them believe they are "winners". Regardless, none of us really "knew" what would happen.

Personally, I had my doubts about Kubiak but really believed if he could just pull out a few wins in a row and gain some confidence, this team could succeed. Instead, the team appears to have regressed. The thing with Gary is he will give you just enough to have hope, but never enough to truly accomplish something great. He simply isn't the leader this team needs right now.

Vinny
12-07-2009, 12:28 PM
But yes, I've been irritated with pessimistic and whiny fans who have been screaming for a coaching change and predicting gloom all season. I'm not inclined to give pessimists a ton of credit for predicting failure. That's what pessimists do.or perhaps they weren't sunshine pumpers like you and could see weakness before it is just incredibly obvious?

GP
12-07-2009, 12:42 PM
What if......

McNair sees how much better the defense got, under Frank Bush, that he fires Kubiak and appoints Frank Bush as head coach?

It would be an in-house move, which could spare McNair the worrisome "risks with making a big change" that he suffers from.

Oh man, I can easily see McNair thinking that Frank Bush could translate his rapid change of the defense's mentality (harder-hitting, more consistent) into a better overall team.

The defense is playing pretty good for Bush. That goal line stand was something I have not seen a Texans defense do in years. Usually, it's a token 6 points for the other team. Especially THAT close to the end zone.

I'm not saying that this IS the right thing to do. It would be just another experiment, which I know none of us want right now.

I'm just saying that there are SOME aspects that make Frank Bush a potential candidate that nobody here is really thinking about. I could see McNair being intrigued with the in-house promotion, trying to make the offense take on a tougher mentality, while sparing him the ulcers of making a big-time switch at head coach (which risks losing what he slowly gained over the past four seasons).

Jackie Chiles
12-07-2009, 12:48 PM
The defense is playing pretty good for Bush. That goal line stand was something I have not seen a Texans defense do in years. Usually, it's a token 6 points for the other team. Especially THAT close to the end zone.

Still cannot believe they didn't QB sneak there. Don't get me wrong, that was an all-time Texans goal line stop but Garrard getting the ball that close to the goal line.... Who can stop that play? Giving the ball to MJD isn't exactly a HB pass but I didn't think it was their best option.

GP
12-07-2009, 12:53 PM
Still cannot believe they didn't QB sneak there. Don't get me wrong, that was an all-time Texans goal line stop but Garrard getting the ball that close to the goal line.... Who can stop that play? Giving the ball to MJD isn't exactly a HB pass but I didn't think it was their best option.

I think THAT play is sticking in the head of Bob McNair. It has stuck in mine.

One side of the ball (offense) is regressing, and the other side of the ball (our defense) is looking like it's trying to peak. We were also very ready for the Garrard Qb keeper when they were about 5 or 7 yards out from the EZ...and we sniffed it out and shut it down.

Except for the VY debacle, and the MJD debacle at the end of the game, the defense hasn't had too many brain-farts like they normally have.

It has been the OFFENSE trying to not lose the game, instead of the old days when the offense had to rescue the defense's poor efforts.

If we're talking about "gameday coaching" here, it would be hard for a guy like McNair, who likes the safe bet, to not at least consider appointing the d-coord as head coach. One year to Bush gives McNair one more year to see what other potential HC's become available if he doesn't see anything he likes this off-season.

devo-x
12-07-2009, 01:02 PM
Why isn't Caldwell starting ahead of White on at RG? :thinking:

dalemurphy
12-07-2009, 01:06 PM
or perhaps they weren't sunshine pumpers like you and could see weakness before it is just incredibly obvious?

Sure. I'd rather err on that side of things. By the way, I had plenty of conversations on these boards and many other places about concerns I had with the coaching staff and decision-making. The difference is that I still gave Kubiak and company the benefit of the doubt. I'm not sure why that is a bad thing around here.

Goldensilence
12-07-2009, 01:11 PM
What if......

McNair sees how much better the defense got, under Frank Bush, that he fires Kubiak and appoints Frank Bush as head coach?

It would be an in-house move, which could spare McNair the worrisome "risks with making a big change" that he suffers from.

Oh man, I can easily see McNair thinking that Frank Bush could translate his rapid change of the defense's mentality (harder-hitting, more consistent) into a better overall team.

The defense is playing pretty good for Bush. That goal line stand was something I have not seen a Texans defense do in years. Usually, it's a token 6 points for the other team. Especially THAT close to the end zone.

I'm not saying that this IS the right thing to do. It would be just another experiment, which I know none of us want right now.

I'm just saying that there are SOME aspects that make Frank Bush a potential candidate that nobody here is really thinking about. I could see McNair being intrigued with the in-house promotion, trying to make the offense take on a tougher mentality, while sparing him the ulcers of making a big-time switch at head coach (which risks losing what he slowly gained over the past four seasons).

Ok I'm going to throw this out there.

Maybe the defense is playing better under Frank Bush or, what I think is the addition of Cushingand Pollard has changed the attitude of the defense.

I just can't shake that the defense improved the same time Cushing was getting 100% healthy and getting game experience. Not saying Pollard is all world but, it makes a big difference when you at least have someone who is competant and talented enough to play SS.

BTW if Frank Bush got the nod if we we replace Kubiak....well I just don't want to think about that scenario. I think evne McNair would know well enough the fans would jump ship....though they'd stick around for tailgating.

Vinny
12-07-2009, 01:13 PM
Sure. I'd rather err on that side of things. By the way, I had plenty of conversations on these boards and many other places about concerns I had with the coaching staff and decision-making. The difference is that I still gave Kubiak and company the benefit of the doubt. I'm not sure why that is a bad thing around here.

nobody said it was a bad thing but when you go out of your way to admonish people with a more realistic view of what is going on...you can fill in that blank.

dalemurphy
12-07-2009, 01:30 PM
nobody said it was a bad thing but when you go out of your way to admonish people with a more realistic view of what is going on...you can fill in that blank.

Well, I think fans screaming about the Frank Bush hire after two games showed a lack of perspective. And, when fans act like chicken little when the Texans lose a close game at Arizona or at Indy, I think the same thing. Or, when the organization gets attacked for a draft pick before the player has played one down of football, I tend to react unfavorably to that.

I don't think being hopeful makes someone a less "realistic" fan. The only thing that surprised me about yesterday's game was the HB pass. I told Barrett before the game that I was terrified of the combination of Quin and EWilson not being in the game. I also was very disappointed that Duane Brown started. I thought they should've played Butler and given Brown one week to recover from his knee sprain. I certainly thought Moats should've gotten more snaps. Everyone on these boards know how I feel about Kasey Studdard, Chris White, Amobi Okoye, Fred Bennett... all of those guys had a big impact on yesterday's loss. I don't know, but it seems like I'm myred in realism.

dalemurphy
12-07-2009, 06:03 PM
Okay, I'm back off the pink soap wagon. I got rid of my Pink Soap and want Kubiak back next year. I don't know that I believe in what he's doing but I have enough doubt and I like him enough that I'd like to risk one more year with the guy. Other than Alex Gibbs, I think I'd like to see this staff stay intact next year.

Runner
12-07-2009, 06:09 PM
Okay, I'm back off the pink soap wagon. I got rid of my Pink Soap and want Kubiak back next year. I don't know that I believe in what he's doing but I have enough doubt and I like him enough that I'd like to risk one more year with the guy. Other than Alex Gibbs, I think I'd like to see this staff stay intact next year.

Good for you. Things are back in balance, even if you are teetering some.

fwiw, I think it is just as likely that Kubiak stays as it is that he goes.

dalemurphy
12-07-2009, 06:13 PM
Good for you. Things are back in balance, even if you are teetering some.

fwiw, I think it is just as likely that Kubiak stays as it is that he goes.

Yeah, I'm very unstable right now. Even when it was 17-0 headed towards halftime, I still thought this team would be 8-6 going to Miami... Now, I'm realizing that it MAY not happen that way.:thinking:

Double Barrel
12-07-2009, 06:15 PM
So, Dale, how many more losses before you renew your membership to the Fire Kubiak Club? Would you feel the same way if we end up 5-11 or 6-10?

dalemurphy
12-07-2009, 06:16 PM
So, Dale, how many more losses before you renew your membership to the Fire Kubiak Club? Would you feel the same way if we end up 5-11 or 6-10?

DB, I'm not sure how I'm going to feel in 10 minutes!

Double Barrel
12-07-2009, 06:19 PM
DB, I'm not sure how I'm going to feel in 10 minutes!

lol! I hear ya', man. It's tough to be an optimistic Texans fan these days. :)

I'm still dazed that this season is all but over. I really and truly thought that we would be in a playoff hunt until the end. It is very disappointing to be feeling this way for another year. The off-season gets longer every year it seems.

*sigh*

dalemurphy
12-07-2009, 06:25 PM
lol! I hear ya', man. It's tough to be an optimistic Texans fan these days. :)

I'm still dazed that this season is all but over. I really and truly thought that we would be in a playoff hunt until the end. It is very disappointing to be feeling this way for another year. The off-season gets longer every year it seems.

*sigh*

This is the best 5- 7 team I've ever rooted for though. I look around the NFL and see the Steelers have lost 4 games in a row and NE is tanking as well. There is no doubt that those coaches have proven successful and Kubiak has not. However, if I look at the decisions made this year or by the performance and clutch performances of our team next to NE and Pittsburgh, I'm not seeing better coached teams over there. Pitt just lost a must win game to Oakland at home and NE has blown second half leads in four of their five losses.

As someone mentioned earlier, the Colts called a ridiculous WR pass on us that got picked off by Pollard in a tight game late... and, they had a healthy Peyton Manning at QB with Addai at RB... Yesterday, we had Chris Brown, Ryan Moats, and Matt Schaub with a sling around his shoulder.

DexmanC
12-07-2009, 07:05 PM
We haven't had a winning record in our division, EVER. Kubiak, with arguably
the worst talent he's ever had, 2006, went 3-3 in the division. Since then
we've finished 1-5 TWICE, and 2-4 once in 2007. This is just freaking
unacceptable. I've seen us finish as the lauging stock of our division for
four consecutive years. Where's the improvement?
My eyes are open, now.

Hell, since Kubes has been here, we're 7-17 in the division,
and 17-9 against everyone else. What does that get ya??


8-8

GP
12-07-2009, 07:26 PM
BTW if Frank Bush got the nod if we we replace Kubiak....well I just don't want to think about that scenario. I think evne McNair would know well enough the fans would jump ship....though they'd stick around for tailgating.

The short of it is this: McNair likes safety and security at ALL costs.

I am very concerned that he will try and rally the players by keeping "one of the guys" who has shown that his (Bush's) defensive squad has improved in a season when things have not gone well for the head coach.

It just screams "Bobby McNair placing half his money on red and the other half on black at the roulette wheel." He's going to win, in his mind, despite the fact that he never really gambled at all.

The guy does not have the stones to go after Cowher because he would have had to fire Kubiak last week in order to get Cowher here. There will be NO play for The Chin. None. I'm convinced of it.

Frank Bush is the stealth candidate, IMO.

Jackie Chiles
12-07-2009, 09:03 PM
It just screams "Bobby McNair placing half his money on red and the other half on black at the roulette wheel." He's going to win, in his mind, despite the fact that he never really gambled at all.

Too bad it keeps landing on green.