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Wolf
12-06-2009, 07:04 PM
TCU and Boise state fiesta bowl

they need to take that blonde off of the TV, I don't even know what he is saying

Ducks and Buckeyes in the rose

kastofsna
12-06-2009, 07:04 PM
Fiesta: Boise State vs TCU

awesome. the BCS ensures that no mid-major team gets the chance to upset one of their precious big schools. **** the BCS

kastofsna
12-06-2009, 07:05 PM
delete my thread.

**** the BCS. absolute nonsense

Wolf
12-06-2009, 07:06 PM
Oklahoma state and ole miss in the cotton

Dan B.
12-06-2009, 07:06 PM
Should be a fun Fiesta Bowl. The winner should be second in the final poll. I don't see Cincy winning myself, whoever they play.

rmartin65
12-06-2009, 07:07 PM
Thats ****ing bull shit!!! Those schools deserve to play BCS schools to see how they stack up. Those teams got shafted by the bowls, I ****ing hate the BCS.

Seriously, this is crap. It is the bowls covering their collective asses, this way no BCS school loses not a non-BCS school. TCU or Boise State wont be able to say "hey, we beat a big guy, why dont we get a chance?". I love college football, but I hate this point. Hate hate hate hate hate.

treduke
12-06-2009, 07:07 PM
awful choice i would have loved to see tcu whoop up on tebow in the sugar bowl

Dan B.
12-06-2009, 07:08 PM
awful choice i would have loved to see tcu whoop up on tebow in the sugar bowl

Yeah but then you'd end up with multiple undefeated teams. I like the fact that two unbeaten teams are going head to head in two different games.

Dan B.
12-06-2009, 07:09 PM
Thats ****ing bull shit!!! Those schools deserve to play BCS schools to see how they stack up. Those teams got shafted by the bowls, I ****ing hate the BCS.

Seriously, this is crap. It is the bowls covering their collective asses, this way no BCS school loses not a non-BCS school. TCU or Boise State wont be able to say "hey, we beat a big guy, why dont we get a chance?". I love college football, but I hate this point. Hate hate hate hate hate.

Whoever wins will finish ahead of the 1-2 loss major schools anyway.

kastofsna
12-06-2009, 07:09 PM
Whoever wins will finish ahead of the 1-2 loss major schools anyway.

which will mean absolutely nothing.

Dan B.
12-06-2009, 07:10 PM
which will mean absolutely nothing.

It'll mean second in the country. They'll jump the 'Bama/UT loser as well.

kastofsna
12-06-2009, 07:10 PM
Yeah but then you'd end up with multiple undefeated teams. I like the fact that two unbeaten teams are going head to head in two different games.

then put Boise St or TCU against Cincinnati

kastofsna
12-06-2009, 07:10 PM
which will mean absolutely nothing.

mariowillshine15
12-06-2009, 07:11 PM
Yeah but then you'd end up with multiple undefeated teams. I like the fact that two unbeaten teams are going head to head in two different games.

I like the matchup but it doesnt help TCU or Boise State prove they can play with the big boys.

They cant get in the Title Game because of their conference and schedules yet when they are good enough to get into the big game and play those big guys they match them up instead?

They cant get respect if theyre not given those matchups.

Dan B.
12-06-2009, 07:12 PM
then put Boise St or TCU against Cincinnati

Well there are 5 unbeatens. Someone is getting left out.

Wolf
12-06-2009, 07:12 PM
Cincy and Florida in the Sugar

treduke
12-06-2009, 07:13 PM
cincy vs gators in sugar bowl will the gators suffer from sec champ game hangover like the tide last year?
this might be kellys last game as coach of the bearcats

kastofsna
12-06-2009, 07:13 PM
Well there are 5 unbeatens. Someone is getting left out.

good. i'd rather two mid-majors go up against two BCS teams than two mid-majors play each other. horrible, horrible, retarded dumbass idea, and the BCS is loving it sooo much. **** them.

Dan B.
12-06-2009, 07:13 PM
I like the matchup but it doesnt help TCU or Boise State prove they can play with the big boys.

Neither does their schedule

They cant get in the Title Game because of their conference and schedules yet when they are good enough to get into the big game and play those big guys they match them up instead?

They cant get respect if theyre not given those matchups.

The winner will be ranked ahead of all of those teams. The fact that they are ranked higher might indicate that they are respected.

mariowillshine15
12-06-2009, 07:14 PM
Whats interesting is that Cincinatti is #3 in the BCS. They would of been in the title game not TCU if Texas would of lost.

Wolf
12-06-2009, 07:14 PM
Iowa and Georgia Tech in the Orange

ArlingtonTexan
12-06-2009, 07:15 PM
I don't know the priority of selections, but from a business/regional standpoint I can see why the fiesta would go this route. Outside of that i would rather see TCU beat on the overrated Big Ten or ACC.

mariowillshine15
12-06-2009, 07:15 PM
Iowa and Georgia Tech in the Orange

The Orange Bowl always sucks. Maybe this game will be better.

treduke
12-06-2009, 07:16 PM
Iowa and Georgia Tech in the Orange

yellow jackets will pound the hawkeyes

Dan B.
12-06-2009, 07:17 PM
which will mean absolutely nothing.

Why would it mean anything if TCU beat Oregon and ended up fourth?

Or Boise State beat Oklahoma to finish sixth?

At least this way TCU and Boise are playing a legit opponent with something on the line.

kastofsna
12-06-2009, 07:19 PM
Why would it mean anything if TCU beat Oregon and ended up fourth?

Or Boise State beat Oklahoma to finish sixth?

it would mean they beat highly ranked BCS schools, which means much more than anything else, obviously. NO ONE cares about the final rankings, except for who is #1.

Dan B.
12-06-2009, 07:22 PM
it would mean they beat highly ranked BCS schools, which means much more than anything else, obviously. NO ONE cares about the final rankings, except for who is #1.

Umm if Cincy wins than whoever wins the Fiesta Bowl will have beaten a higher ranked BCS school than any of the teams you would prefer they face.

Wolf
12-06-2009, 07:22 PM
true.. only game really means anything in the grand scheme of things is the championship game

I hate the BSCS also

I can't imagine that the revenue wouldn't be a lot more if it were a playoff system like pretty much all of college sports except the football

makes no sense to me also

kastofsna
12-06-2009, 07:23 PM
Umm if Cincy wins than whoever wins the Fiesta Bowl will have beaten a higher ranked BCS school than any of the teams you would prefer they face.

cincy is a BCS school.

Wolf
12-06-2009, 07:24 PM
I think the powers to be .loves the controversy with a NC and other teams that are still undefeated ... keeps the college talk going for a while

TheRealJoker
12-06-2009, 07:25 PM
Go Hawkeyes!!!

They should have Ricky Stanzi back and ready to lead them to another come from behind victory!!!

Dan B.
12-06-2009, 07:27 PM
cincy is a BCS school.

Which is why I said IF they win. If Florida wins than Florida would have beaten a higher ranked opponent than TCU/BSU, since Cincinnati is probably going to be the highest ranked of the three.

The point is this. The top 5 teams are going to be Alabama, UT, Cincinnati, TCU, and BSU. There is no way that any of them could gain credibility from beating a team ranked below these teams.

kastofsna
12-06-2009, 07:28 PM
Which is why I said they have to win. If Florida wins than Florida would have beaten a higher ranked opponent than TCU/BSU, since Cincinnati is probably going to be the highest ranked of the three.

The point is this. The top 5 teams are going to be Alabama, UT, Cincinnati, TCU, and BSU. There is no way that any of them could gain credibility from beating a team ranked below these teams.

you don't get college football. that's fine.

Dan B.
12-06-2009, 07:30 PM
you don't get college football. that's fine.

I get math. I understand that beating #4 or #6 means more than beating a team ranked 11th.

I like when highly ranked teams play each other. You'd prefer they don't. That's fine.

gwallaia
12-06-2009, 08:12 PM
Well, Coogs back to the Armed Forces Bowl against Air Force for the second straight year.

Had a good time last year and will go again. Wish we were going to Memphis instead.

treduke
12-06-2009, 08:23 PM
Well, Coogs back to the Armed Forces Bowl against Air Force for the second straight year.

Had a good time last year and will go again. Wish we were going to Memphis instead.

yeah memphis is sweet! good music & good food

Hookem Horns
12-06-2009, 11:04 PM
Whats interesting is that Cincinatti is #3 in the BCS. They would of been in the title game not TCU if Texas would of lost.

That is what I was just thinking. Thank gawd the Horns pulled it off last night because if Texas would have lost the consolation for me would have been seeing TCU play in the Championship game. However that wouldn't have happened either.

Showtime100
12-06-2009, 11:19 PM
TCU and Boise state fiesta bowl

Everything else is just boring.

Dan B.
12-06-2009, 11:31 PM
Everything else is just boring.

I completely agree that the Fiesta Bowl will be way more exciting to watch than any of the other bowl games. I know I'm going to watch it.

What if the Fiesta Bowl gets equal ratings to the NC Game?

How could the BCS say that undefeated midmajor teams don't have drawing power if that happens?

bah007
12-06-2009, 11:37 PM
I completely agree that the Fiesta Bowl will be way more exciting to watch than any of the other bowl games. I know I'm going to watch it.

What if the Fiesta Bowl gets equal ratings to the NC Game?

How could the BCS say that undefeated midmajor teams don't have drawing power if that happens?

The NC game will always outdraw all the others just because of what is on the line.

Hookem Horns
12-06-2009, 11:38 PM
I completely agree that the Fiesta Bowl will be way more exciting to watch than any of the other bowl games. I know I'm going to watch it.

What if the Fiesta Bowl gets equal ratings to the NC Game?

How could the BCS say that undefeated midmajor teams don't have drawing power if that happens?

That won't happen.

I honestly can't get very excited about that Fiesta Bowl game. I would have rather seen TCU play Florida. For some reason I just can't take a team seriously that plays on blue turf.

bah007
12-06-2009, 11:42 PM
That won't happen.

I honestly can't get very excited about that Fiesta Bowl game. I would have rather seen TCU play Florida. For some reason I just can't take a team seriously that plays on blue turf.

I think TCU and Florida are very similar to each other. I think they would give us a great defensive battle.

I also think that Boise St and Cincinnati are very similar. I think they would give us a great wide open shootout.

TCU-Boise St will be a great game but it's demeaning to all non-BCS schools that this has to happen. It's a no win situation for whoever wins the game because all they did was beat an "overrated team from a weak conference".

Dan B.
12-06-2009, 11:44 PM
The NC game will always outdraw all the others just because of what is on the line.

I don't think it can outdraw the game, and yeah, I think pretty much anyone watching the Fiesta Bowl is going to watch the BCS Championship as well. There just doesn't seem to be a lot of excitement over either of the teams in the big game.

Still if the Fiesta Bowl beats the Rose Bowl, the Orange Bowl, and the Sugar, then the midmajor teams would have some powerful ammo. People love an underdog. Any defense of overlooking an undefeated team in favor of a mediocre major conference champion would ring hollow.

Dan B.
12-06-2009, 11:48 PM
I think TCU and Florida are very similar to each other. I think they would give us a great defensive battle.

I also think that Boise St and Cincinnati are very similar. I think they would give us a great wide open shootout.

TCU-Boise St will be a great game but it's demeaning to all non-BCS schools that this has to happen. It's a no win situation for whoever wins the game because all they did was beat an "overrated team from a weak conference".

They would be second or third in the country. The loser would still be a top 6 team. Neither one loses any credibility by losing, and they gain more from facing each other than they would any other team save Cincy and MAYBE Florida. I don't think it's demeaning to non BCS schools to have 2 teams in the top 6 . I would have preferred TCU vs Cincy (I think BSU is all offense and expect TCU to win the game), but it would be more demeaning if they all were forced to play different crappy midlevel teams that won their conference and all finished undefeated. This way we know who's better.

bah007
12-06-2009, 11:55 PM
They would be second or third in the country. The loser would still be a top 6 team. Neither one loses any credibility by losing, and they gain more from facing each other than they would any other team save Cincy and MAYBE Florida. I don't think it's demeaning to non BCS schools to have 2 teams in the top 6 . I would have preferred TCU vs Cincy (I think BSU is all offense and expect TCU to win the game), but it would be more demeaning if they all were forced to play different crappy midlevel teams that won their conference and all finished undefeated. This way we know who's better.

We know who the better non-BCS team is. But if gives us no indication of how they would stack up against Florida or any of the other BCS schools. I do see the appeal of the game, but I also think it was set up this way so that the powers that be could protect their BCS schools from potentially losing to a team from a weaker conference.

Dan B.
12-07-2009, 12:00 AM
We know who the better non-BCS team is. But if gives us no indication of how they would stack up against Florida or any of the other BCS schools. I do see the appeal of the game, but I also think it was set up this way so that the powers that be could protect their BCS schools from potentially losing to a team from a weaker conference.

I think it makes sense from the Fiesta Bowl's standpoint and can see why they would pick those teams. Phoenix is a relatively easy trip from Dallas and Boise, they are two well respected top ranked teams that knowledgeable college fans are familiar with, they know each other (familiarity breeds contempt?), and they play exciting football. Most importantly, neither one has lost. They are certainly going to be primed to play each other. The ingredients are perfect for a great game.

bah007
12-07-2009, 12:04 AM
I think it makes sense from the Fiesta Bowl's standpoint. Phoenix is a relatively easy trip from Dallas and Boise, they are two well respected top ranked teams that knowledgeable college fans are familiar with, they know each other (familiarity breeds contempt?), and they play exciting football.

If one of these teams was playing Florida in the Sugar Bowl they would be a 10 point underdog or worse because the bias is still out there that they are inferior programs. With this bowl setup, they don't even get the opportunity to challenge that bias.

Most importantly, neither one has lost. They are certainly going to be primed to play each other. The ingredients are perfect for a great game.

I do think it will be a fantastic game. Kellen Moore will want revenge for the worst performance of his career and TCU is trying to prove that they belong in the same sentence as Alabama, Texas, and Florida.

kastofsna
12-07-2009, 12:40 AM
the Fiesta won't outdraw the others because people want to see mid-majors face big teams. they don't want to see them face each other.

steelbtexan
12-07-2009, 01:47 AM
the Fiesta won't outdraw the others because people want to see mid-majors face big teams. they don't want to see them face each other.

True

That's why the bowl matchups were set up this way.

So the non BCS schools dont get a chance to prove their mettle against the big boys.

It's just another way the BCS schools rig it to keep thw status quo.

BTW didn't TCU and Boise St play against each other in a bowl game last year?

Dan B.
12-07-2009, 01:48 AM
True

That's why the bowl matchups were set up this way.

So the non BCS schools dont get a chance to prove their mettle against the big boys.

It's just another way the BCS schools rig it to keep thw status quo.

BTW didn't TCU and Boise St play against each other in a bowl game last year?

Yes.

TCU handed Boise its only loss in the last two years.

Think Boise remembers?

Blake
12-07-2009, 08:14 AM
then put Boise St or TCU against Cincinnati

Im not 100% sure how all the BCS pairings work, but if it worked out to where Cincy played lets say TCU, then who would Boise play? They would still have to play a 1 or 2 loss team, and in the end would them winning mean anything for you?

As an undefeated TCU or Boise who doesnt get into the title game, wouldnt you rather go against an undefeated team and give them their first loss while proving you are better, or would you rather go against Iowa or Georgia Tech and tack on a 3rd loss to their record?

kastofsna
12-07-2009, 08:54 AM
As an undefeated TCU or Boise who doesnt get into the title game, wouldnt you rather go against an undefeated team and give them their first loss while proving you are better, or would you rather go against Iowa or Georgia Tech and tack on a 3rd loss to their record?

they'd rather beat a team from a big BCS conference ranked in the top 10.

remember, these two already played last year in a bowl game. TCU beat the undefeated Boise St then. they don't really have to prove that they can do that.

Imatexanfan
12-07-2009, 08:54 AM
Yes.

TCU handed Boise its only loss in the last two years.

Think Boise remembers?

Holy crap I forgot about that, this is going to be a great game.:turtle:

Dan B.
12-08-2009, 01:02 PM
I'm still trying to wrap my head around how it means absolutely nothing that the winner of the Fiesta Bowl will likely finish at worst third in the country. I know it means nothing to kast (and yet I'M the one who doesn't know college football :headhurts:), but I'm thinking it might mean something to prospective recruits. It might mean something when the rankings are released next year -- which you may have noticed tends to affect where a team finishes as long as they win their games.

They are two of the top 6 teams in the country. How can any true fan of college football prefer a game between unevenly matched opponents? I know, I know. They already played each other last year (odd how this doesn't seem to affect the status of Florida/Georgia, Alabama/Auburn, Michigan/Ohio State etc. etc. etc.). Umm Florida and Alabama played each other last year in the SEC Championship. Is that a reason to force a lower ranked team into the game this year? Sometimes it's actually exciting to see two teams with a history of animosity play each other in a rematch, especially when the game involves two coaches as innovative as Patterson and Petersen.

I am not defending the BCS. I would definitely prefer a playoff (I'd prefer eliminating the neutral bowl sites at least early on, because I think teams are built for their environment. I want to see Florida drop Ohio State in the Horseshoe in December before I pronounce them unequivocally better). I don't think it's going to happen because the major schools want to keep the lion's share of the revenue for themselves. Also you can't possibly get 68 teams into a playoff (there are currently 34 bowl games IIRC).

With our imperfect system unlikely to change in the near future, be happy that the top 6 teams in the country are all playing each other. That's about as good as it's going to get.

Dan B.
12-08-2009, 01:18 PM
A hypothetical: Let's assume that Alabama lost to Auburn and Tennessee and that Florida lost to Arkansas prior to last week's SEC Championship (the teams would have been the same as LSU finished with 3 conference losses). TCU would have been third behind UT and a 1 loss Florida, with Cincy and BSU at 4th/5th. Then assume the SEC Championship goes the same way it did, but Texas loses to Nebraska in the Big 12 Championship and Cincy loses in overtime.

Five games all decided by one play. If five plays had gone differently this season TCU and Boise would be ranked 1/2 in the country. Would that hypothetical rematch be boring as hell? Would each have more to prove by playing Iowa or Oregon?

kastofsna
12-08-2009, 02:10 PM
nope, still don't get it.

also, the vast majority of fans of TCU and Boise State do not like the game at all and would rather play a BCS school. with good reason.

and to potential recruits, beating a top 10 BCS school is going to look far more impressive than beating another mid-major.

ah yes, let's compare the historic rivalry of TCU and Boise State to Michigan and Ohio State. fantastic argument.

the BCS made this game happen because two mid-majors playing each other does nothing to hurt the big schools' credibility. it's a win-win; they look good for allowing mid-majors in, but they don't have to suffer the embarrassment of one of their beloved big schools getting beat by one of them.

and again, the final rankings mean nothing aside from who is #1. i'm sure most college football fans can't name anyone ranked outside of #1 each offseason. because...it means nothing.
Five games all decided by one play. If five plays had gone differently this season TCU and Boise would be ranked 1/2 in the country. Would that hypothetical rematch be boring as hell? Would each have more to prove by playing Iowa or Oregon?
....

Dan B.
12-08-2009, 02:19 PM
nope, still don't get it.

also, the vast majority of fans of TCU and Boise State do not like the game at all and would rather play a BCS school. with good reason.

and to potential recruits, beating a top 10 BCS school is going to look far more impressive than beating another mid-major.

ah yes, let's compare the historic rivalry of TCU and Boise State to Michigan and Ohio State. fantastic argument.

the BCS made this game happen because two mid-majors playing each other does nothing to hurt the big schools' credibility. it's a win-win; they look good for allowing mid-majors in, but they don't have to suffer the embarrassment of one of their beloved big schools getting beat by one of them.

and again, the final rankings mean nothing aside from who is #1. i'm sure most college football fans can't name anyone ranked outside of #1 each offseason. because...it means nothing.

....

The BCS schools have more to gain by letting the lower ranked schools play their mid major qualifiers, for the same reason BSU has more to gain by playing USC than Nevada. At least then they have a chance to jump the higher ranked team in the rankings (despite how you insist they don't matter at all, they are used to determine quite a few things in college football. Like who plays in a BCS game in the first place). As it is the bad teams like Oregon and Iowa are guaranteed to finish in a bad spot. The midmajor schools have more to lose by playing teams ranked outside the top 5 than teams in it. What part of "Top 6 = respect" don't you get?

Do you honestly think that Georgia Tech and TCU would be a better game? I can understand preferring Cincinnati got the bid, but seriously? You thumb your nose at two of the elite teams in the country facing off head to head? You would prefer a team that got trounced in the last week of their season be served up as a sacrificial lamb?

Sounds like a helluva yawner to me. It also sounds like you are the one thumbing your nose at midmajor teams, not me. Why would you advocate that the Fiesta Bowl should reduce themselves to an irrelevant status between mismatched teams when they can feature the second most important game that year?

And the point wrt Michigan Ohio State was that it doesn't always hurt when teams face off in consecutive seasons. Take another example: Florida played Alabama for the second consecutive year this year in the SEC Championship. They also faced each other for three consecutive years from 1992-95 as well as in 1997 and 99 (Arkansas beat out Alabama in 96 and 1998 was an abberation). Oddly enough, the games were unpredictable and entertaining -- and the lower ranked team won the majority of the time, including the last two years consecutively.

And how can you question others college football credibility when you don't care about the final result?

beerlover
12-08-2009, 02:21 PM
this can never be made right until they use these bowl games in some type of playoff structure. Those reaping big payoffs now are just too scared to allow free market forces play :chef:

bah007
12-08-2009, 04:20 PM
The BCS schools have more to gain by letting the lower ranked schools play their mid major qualifiers, for the same reason BSU has more to gain by playing USC than Nevada. At least then they have a chance to jump the higher ranked team in the rankings (despite how you insist they don't matter at all, they are used to determine quite a few things in college football. Like who plays in a BCS game in the first place). As it is the bad teams like Oregon and Iowa are guaranteed to finish in a bad spot. The midmajor schools have more to lose by playing teams ranked outside the top 5 than teams in it. What part of "Top 6 = respect" don't you get?

Do you honestly think that Georgia Tech and TCU would be a better game? I can understand preferring Cincinnati got the bid, but seriously? You thumb your nose at two of the elite teams in the country facing off head to head? You would prefer a team that got trounced in the last week of their season be served up as a sacrificial lamb?

Sounds like a helluva yawner to me. It also sounds like you are the one thumbing your nose at midmajor teams, not me. Why would you advocate that the Fiesta Bowl should reduce themselves to an irrelevant status between mismatched teams when they can feature the second most important game that year?

And the point wrt Michigan Ohio State was that it doesn't always hurt when teams face off in consecutive seasons. Take another example: Florida played Alabama for the second consecutive year this year in the SEC Championship. They also faced each other for three consecutive years from 1992-95 as well as in 1997 and 99 (Arkansas beat out Alabama in 96 and 1998 was an abberation). Oddly enough, the games were unpredictable and entertaining -- and the lower ranked team won the majority of the time, including the last two years consecutively.

And how can you question others college football credibility when you don't care about the final result?

You are not following Kast's argument at all. He, like all knowledgeable fans, has no problem with TCU and Boise St.

The problem is that the average fan is stupid. And the average fan won't believe that TCU has proved anything by beating Boise St. They need to defeat an upper class team from a power conference to gain respect. They can't do that by playing each other.

The average fan really does believe that TCU and Boise St are inferior programs because of the conferences they play in. These programs cannot fight that bias unless they are given the opportunity.

Dan B.
12-09-2009, 12:15 AM
You are not following Kast's argument at all. He, like all knowledgeable fans, has no problem with TCU and Boise St.

good. i'd rather two mid-majors go up against two BCS teams than two mid-majors play each other. horrible, horrible, retarded dumbass idea, and the BCS is loving it sooo much. **** them.

it would mean they beat highly ranked BCS schools, which means much more than anything else, obviously. NO ONE cares about the final rankings, except for who is #1.

you were saying? He obviously has a problem with the two playing each other. He has stated more than once that it will be a bad game, that they already played each other one time before anyway, and that they should be playing bad teams from other conferences instead of each other. How does he NOT have a problem with the game?

He keeps insisting that the BCS conferences don't want to suffer the embarassment of losing to these schools. They already did. They aren't even able to get into the same level of Bowl Game. Because they aren't as good. And lost out. To TCU. And Boise.

The problem is that the average fan is stupid. And the average fan won't believe that TCU has proved anything by beating Boise St. They need to defeat an upper class team from a power conference to gain respect. They can't do that by playing each other.

The average fan really does believe that TCU and Boise St are inferior programs because of the conferences they play in. These programs cannot fight that bias unless they are given the opportunity.

They are ranked above those teams that are supposedly superior to them and are guaranteed to stay there. By not playing them, no one can jump them. What more respect could they possibly need?

Never before have 2 non BCS schools been ranked in the top 6. This is a unique situation. If TCU were 3rd and Boise 12th (but automatically qualifying) and the Fiesta still made the same choice, then I would be pissed. But they didn't. The Fiesta (NOT the BCS. The Fiesta picked their own teams for their own bowl, and they managed to pick the best game all bowl season. What doofuses) picked the best two teams by ranking and by record to play each other. What's the problem?

The BCS conferences have already lost the argument. In years past Boise and TCU would both be undefeated but ranked in the teens. We are now at a point where a major BCS game that WILL affect the final rankings from the very top can occur without any of the big money schools having a damn thing to do with it. Where multiple schools from small conferences can wreak utter havoc and take over half of the elite spots in the rankings. This is progress.

kastofsna
12-09-2009, 12:29 AM
bah is right.

Dan B.
12-09-2009, 12:29 AM
bah is right.

If you don't have a problem with them why would you prefer they not play each other? You are sayng two elite teams should not play each other because of their conference affiliation, not their records or quality of play.

A simple question. What matchup do you feel will produce a more exciting game than TCU vs Boise?

kastofsna
12-09-2009, 12:32 AM
the matchup is a drop in the water compared to the big picture.

Dan B.
12-09-2009, 12:34 AM
the matchup is a drop in the water compared to the big picture.

The matchup IS the big picture. You are missing the big picture due to your Big School BCS conspiracy blinders.

The big picture is that for the first time in the history of college football two teams from minor conferences have both made it to this level. Why would you take that from them and force them into pathetic consolation games instead? Would you force Florida to play another big school with an abysmal ranking and prove their worth if they were ranked #4 as well? I wonder why it's only small schools that have to play bad teams from big conferences over good teams from lesser known ones.

Do you really believe that the Fiesta Bowl was not able to choose their own competitors and that the big schools forced them to overlook them? Why is it so hard to believe that the Fiesta Bowl organizers actually wanted this matchup and weren't roped into it?

The Fiesta had first dibs. They took TCU over every other BCS eligible team. The Sugar Bowl took Florida next (SEC), and the Fiesta took Boise to complete their game. As I said upthread I would have preferred Cincy to Boise myself, but still, the Fiesta had the chance and passed over everyone else to make this game happen. Was this a conspiracy? Or did they actually willingly choose the Boise State Broncos over Georgia Tech and Iowa? Considering the travel issues involved with the lone remaining undefeated team (I doubt Cincy's fan base is much larger than Boise's and Phoenix is a lot further from Ohio than Idaho) can you really not see why they might prefer an undefeated, exciting, and higher ranked team from their own region to these also rans?

Both of these schools are quickly becoming legitimate football powers. Neither is a flash in the pan. Both have been extremely successful at all levels for several years, and have continued to recruit and reload on a consistent basis. They have already forced their way onto the big stage. That's kind of what the Fiesta Bowl is. It's only a matter of time before one goes from the second biggest game to the biggest one. But can't you at least admit that two midmajor schools playing in the second biggest game of the year is better than them playing in the 25th of 34 Bowl games and that it is preferable to foisting another listless Bama/Utah matchup on us again? We already know they can beat big teams with bad records. They both did so this season in order to get where they are now. They shouldn't have to do it yet again.

Dan B.
12-09-2009, 01:06 AM
Fiesta Bowl ranks second in ESPN.com's bowl rankings



ESPN.com’s own Mark Schlabach ranked all 34 bowls on Tuesday and he thinks the Tostitos Fiesta Bowl, that many are up in arms about, is actually the second-best bowl game of the season.

I don’t disagree.

TCU and Boise State might be the most intriguing game to watch, outside of the national championship, because the two teams are so similar statistically. Yeah, we all wanted to see Boise State and TCU match up with the “big boys” but what if TCU and Boise State are the big boys? Or at least TCU at No. 4 in the country. The Horned Frogs were a second away from possibly playing for a national title. Perhaps we’re not giving TCU and Boise State enough credit for the seasons they’ve accomplished this year?

http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/post/_/id/15505/fiesta-bowl-ranks-second-in-espn-coms-bowl-rankings

The important Bowl Game* is not the Rose Bowl or Orange Bowl. No one cares about Ohio State or Oregon. They are irrelevant while TCU and Boise still matter.

THIS is the big picture.

* -- (the National Championship Game is not a Bowl Game. It's a Title Game, played this year at the Rose Bowl. The Rose Bowl is played on New Year's Day)

Blake
12-09-2009, 08:04 AM
I dont have a problem with the bowl selections.

But if I had my way it would be:

Bama vs. Texas

Florida vs. TCU

Boise vs. Cincy *Fiesta still gets its undefeated vs. undefeated, plus mid major vs bcs school.

Ohio State vs. Oregon *Cant change*

Iowa vs. Georgia Tech *Cant change*

bah007
12-09-2009, 11:01 AM
The matchup IS the big picture. You are missing the big picture due to your Big School BCS conspiracy blinders.

The big picture is that for the first time in the history of college football two teams from minor conferences have both made it to this level. Why would you take that from them and force them into pathetic consolation games instead? Would you force Florida to play another big school with an abysmal ranking and prove their worth if they were ranked #4 as well? I wonder why it's only small schools that have to play bad teams from big conferences over good teams from lesser known ones.

Do you really believe that the Fiesta Bowl was not able to choose their own competitors and that the big schools forced them to overlook them? Why is it so hard to believe that the Fiesta Bowl organizers actually wanted this matchup and weren't roped into it?

The Fiesta had first dibs. They took TCU over every other BCS eligible team. The Sugar Bowl took Florida next (SEC), and the Fiesta took Boise to complete their game. As I said upthread I would have preferred Cincy to Boise myself, but still, the Fiesta had the chance and passed over everyone else to make this game happen. Was this a conspiracy? Or did they actually willingly choose the Boise State Broncos over Georgia Tech and Iowa? Considering the travel issues involved with the lone remaining undefeated team (I doubt Cincy's fan base is much larger than Boise's and Phoenix is a lot further from Ohio than Idaho) can you really not see why they might prefer an undefeated, exciting, and higher ranked team from their own region to these also rans?

Both of these schools are quickly becoming legitimate football powers. Neither is a flash in the pan. Both have been extremely successful at all levels for several years, and have continued to recruit and reload on a consistent basis. They have already forced their way onto the big stage. That's kind of what the Fiesta Bowl is. It's only a matter of time before one goes from the second biggest game to the biggest one. But can't you at least admit that two midmajor schools playing in the second biggest game of the year is better than them playing in the 25th of 34 Bowl games and that it is preferable to foisting another listless Bama/Utah matchup on us again? We already know they can beat big teams with bad records. They both did so this season in order to get where they are now. They shouldn't have to do it yet again.

Look, I feel the exact same way you do.

The problem I have with the match up is that the majority of college football fans will not buy into TCU as a real program just because they beat Boise St.

Like it or not, probably close to 99% of college football fans think the SEC is the best conference in the nation and I would guess that more than half think the #2 team in that conference would destroy anyone from the lowly MWC or WAC.

There is a bias against these schools. They can't fight it by playing each other.

I'm glad your all gung ho about it. Personally, this is my favorite match up of the bowl season outside of the title game. I think it is going to be a fantastic game.

kastofsna
12-09-2009, 12:53 PM
and i don't really think it'll be that good of a game, frankly. TCU will probably destroy them, and Alabama will probably destroy Texas.

Dan B.
12-09-2009, 03:38 PM
and i don't really think it'll be that good of a game, frankly. TCU will probably destroy them, and Alabama will probably destroy Texas.

Which BCS game do you think will be the most exciting to watch?

Personally I think that the Sugar is most likely to be a rout, unless Florida just doesn't care at all. I suspect that Tebow, for all the criticism he gets, is not going to let his team go out and play a flat game in his last collegiate matchup. The Orange Bowl could be competitive, but both teams faded significantly down the stretch. I think the Rose is likely to be a blowout as well.

I think Bama and TCU both win, but I'm not so sure either game is a rout. In the NC Game I think the first quarter is going to dictate the game. Alabama is far more balanced than Texas on offense, and if they can get an early lead and take Texas out of running situations it could be a long night for McCoy. OTOH if Texas can eliminate Igram by forcing turnovers and getting up early they can take away a huge part of Alabama's offense. The biggest reason they are so balanced IMO is that defenses are forced to respect Ingram. A lead would also allow Greg Davis and Muschamp to do what they do best. Davis can curl up like an armadillo and play dead, and Muschamp can go crazy with attacking schemes that keep the offense off balance.

Goldensilence
12-09-2009, 04:17 PM
Which BCS game do you think will be the most exciting to watch?

Personally I think that the Sugar is most likely to be a rout, unless Florida just doesn't care at all. I suspect that Tebow, for all the criticism he gets, is not going to let his team go out and play a flat game in his last collegiate matchup. The Orange Bowl could be competitive, but both teams faded significantly down the stretch. I think the Rose is likely to be a blowout as well.

I think Bama and TCU both win, but I'm not so sure either game is a rout. In the NC Game I think the first quarter is going to dictate the game. Alabama is far more balanced than Texas on offense, and if they can get an early lead and take Texas out of running situations it could be a long night for McCoy. OTOH if Texas can eliminate Igram by forcing turnovers and getting up early they can take away a huge part of Alabama's offense. The biggest reason they are so balanced IMO is that defenses are forced to respect Ingram. A lead would also allow Greg Davis and Muschamp to do what they do best. Davis can curl up like an armadillo and play dead, and Muschamp can go crazy with attacking schemes that keep the offense off balance.

I disagree about Ingram. I think McElroy late success in the season allows Bama to be balanced. He reminds of Chad Pennington in a way, not the greatest athlete, doesn't have a cannon arm, but goes out and competes by making smart plays. Really helps to have an explosive receiver like Julio Jones.

I think the UT defense is every bit as good as Alabama's and that's what's going to keep this game closer then people think. UT has struggled to run this year, and that worries me, but then again not a lot of teams have had large amounts of success running against Bama anyway.

Offensively the game is on all on McCoy. Him and the receivers need to be in sync and find space to make catches. They need to watch a game tapes of the Auburn and Tennessee game.

LonerATO
12-09-2009, 04:52 PM
I dont want to see another Boise State v TCU and if I did I would have just watched the Poinsettia Bowl from last year.

kastofsna
12-09-2009, 08:15 PM
Which BCS game do you think will be the most exciting to watch?

none of them interest me. maybe UF/Cincinnati

playa465
12-09-2009, 10:23 PM
I think there are a few points missing here:

1) You will NEVER satisfy everyone.

2) These are college kids who are not professionals being paid. Any type of playoffs that would extend their season is not fair to them.

3) Unless the game is the National Championship Game. The BCS does not choose the teams. The Bowls choose from a pool of automatic qualifiers and at large teams. The Fiesta had 1st pick because its "contractual team" comes from the Big 12...Texas, the Big 12 rep, is playing for the national championship so they (Fiesta Bowl) chose whatever teams they wanted that are not aligned to another bowl. The BCS did not align teams to Bowls, this was done long before BCS.

We as fans would like to see 1 definitive champion, however this isn't FCS or Div 3, etc...The bowl games would have to be in the playoff mix, this is not just a couple of millions we are talking about. This is a billion dollar industry...the TV deals, the hoopla in the cities where the games take place, street vendors, bars, etc is hella revenue. Business will trump emotions everytime and this is business.

LonerATO
12-09-2009, 10:42 PM
I think there are a few points missing here:

1) You will NEVER satisfy everyone.

2) These are college kids who are not professionals being paid. Any type of playoffs that would extend their season is not fair to them.

3) Unless the game is the National Championship Game. The BCS does not choose the teams. The Bowls choose from a pool of automatic qualifiers and at large teams. The Fiesta had 1st pick because its "contractual team" comes from the Big 12...Texas, the Big 12 rep, is playing for the national championship so they (Fiesta Bowl) chose whatever teams they wanted that are not aligned to another bowl. The BCS did not align teams to Bowls, this was done long before BCS.

We as fans would like to see 1 definitive champion, however this isn't FCS or Div 3, etc...The bowl games would have to be in the playoff mix, this is not just a couple of millions we are talking about. This is a billion dollar industry...the TV deals, the hoopla in the cities where the games take place, street vendors, bars, etc is hella revenue. Business will trump emotions everytime and this is business.

What do you mean playoffs are unfair? 1-AA has playoffs also and the players still manage to make it to class and pass.

bah007
12-10-2009, 12:30 AM
Technically the Sugar Bowl had the first selection, not the Fiesta Bowl.

playa465
12-10-2009, 02:59 AM
What do you mean playoffs are unfair? 1-AA has playoffs also and the players still manage to make it to class and pass.

I said any playoffs that would EXTEND the season would be unfair. 1 AA (FCS) starts their playoffs at the end of Nov and is concluded a lil past the halfway point of Dec. Most bowl games start near or after Christmas.

Technically the Sugar Bowl had the first selection, not the Fiesta Bowl.

You are correct. Alabama is ranked #1 so the Sugar Bowl did get 1st pick. Thanks for the correction

kastofsna
12-10-2009, 11:52 AM
four groups of four teams play for the right to get to the one of the four BCS games. that's sixteen teams. the higher ranked teams in each group play at home the week after the conference championships, before meeting up at the bowl games, the same time they usually are played (jan 1st-ish). the winners of the bowl games play in the Final Four at a different site.

the teams in the groups will be selected by the bowls themselves. what this would do is ensure that the bowls have a HUGE say in the matter, and the BCS bowl games themselves are still very important and on a big stage, but also have a playoff as well.

the "Groups" will be 4 teams split up by ranking, something like:

Group A: teams ranked 1-4
Group B: teams ranked 5-8
Group C: teams ranked 9-12
Group D: teams ranked 13-16

the Rose Bowl picks one team from A, then the Orange Bowl picks from A, etc. snake the "draft" order around so it's somewhat fair. this rotates each year.

playa465
12-10-2009, 05:02 PM
four groups of four teams play for the right to get to the one of the four BCS games. that's sixteen teams. the higher ranked teams in each group play at home the week after the conference championships, before meeting up at the bowl games, the same time they usually are played (jan 1st-ish). the winners of the bowl games play in the Final Four at a different site.

the teams in the groups will be selected by the bowls themselves. what this would do is ensure that the bowls have a HUGE say in the matter, and the BCS bowl games themselves are still very important and on a big stage, but also have a playoff as well.

the "Groups" will be 4 teams split up by ranking, something like:

Group A: teams ranked 1-4
Group B: teams ranked 5-8
Group C: teams ranked 9-12
Group D: teams ranked 13-16

the Rose Bowl picks one team from A, then the Orange Bowl picks from A, etc. snake the "draft" order around so it's somewhat fair. this rotates each year.

This is a start but why would a team ranked #4 go on the road to play a game when a team ranked #9 would have a home game...teams ranked in the top 16 who do not play for a conference championship would have extra rest...plus I'm not fond of the season being extended by the number of games nor time. Your format potentially adds 3 games overall for the final 2 teams (not counting the bowl game). The reason I'm against adding games or extending the season time wise is because these student athletes already take an injury risk just by playing. To increase that risk by adding a longer season decreases their potential to become NFL players. Also during the weeks before bowl games players are catching up on their end of semester course work while practicing for games...to add games may put them further behind. Major college football teams won't go for a final four weekend like someone else had mentioned and if you go 2 weeks beyond the bowl games you may have a TV conflict with the NFL playoffs....With your plan, maybe shortened the overall season to 9/10 games, eliminate the conference championships, and have this all wrapped up between 5-10 Jan and it could possibly work. I would align ur groups like this:

Group A: #1 vs #16; #5 vs #12
Group B: #2 vs #15; #6 vs #11
Group C: #3 vs #14; #7 vs #10
Group D: #4 vs #13; #8 vs #9

With the higher ranked team getting home field advantage. There is potential for David to meet Goliath and while having quality games.