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View Full Version : No OD, No wins.


jaayteetx
12-06-2009, 03:24 PM
Heres hoping his rehab goes well!

m5kwatts
12-06-2009, 03:43 PM
Can he call plays?

Spled
12-06-2009, 03:47 PM
He's all pro caliber.

Marcus
12-06-2009, 03:48 PM
Yeah, say what you want about one certain player not making a difference, but the fact remains . . .

. . the offense hasn't been the same since Daniels got hurt. He was THAT important.

LonerATO
12-06-2009, 03:49 PM
Yeah, say what you want about one certain player not making a difference, but the fact remains . . .

. . the offense hasn't been the same since Daniels got hurt. He was THAT important.

I agree

mariowillshine15
12-06-2009, 03:49 PM
Yeah, say what you want about one certain player not making a difference, but the fact remains . . .

. . the offense hasn't been the same since Daniels got hurt. He was THAT important.

You just made Owen Daniels contract negotiation for him.

TheCD
12-06-2009, 03:50 PM
Yeah, say what you want about one certain player not making a difference, but the fact remains . . .

. . the offense hasn't been the same since Daniels got hurt. He was THAT important.

Agreed. We'd better not let him go if he comes back healthy.

phantom17
12-06-2009, 03:54 PM
Hahaha! I don't think OD would have call that stupid HB pass, even the announcers were shocked!!!! JUST PLAIN STUPID FOOTBALL WEEK IN WEEK OUT!!!!! The fans should bring their torches & pitchforks to McNair's house & demand GOOD & COMPETENT FOOTBALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Marcus
12-06-2009, 03:54 PM
You just made Owen Daniels contract negotiation for him.

That's fine. Pay the man. Better than that POS Dunta, I know that much.

Dishman
12-06-2009, 03:55 PM
You just made Owen Daniels contract negotiation for him.

In a weird way to me this means Kubiak does not come back next year. How much of it was OD missing (and I'd say there's a definite impact) and how much of of the last 4 games have really been on the coaching. I know Dreesen and Casey are not Pro-bowl material today, but the Texans seemed damned with or without OD. It's sad really. The man was poised to have a huge year. I feel like at the same time the team would still find a way to be almost where they are at today.

mariowillshine15
12-06-2009, 03:55 PM
That's fine. Pay the man. Better than that POS Dunta, I know that much.

Agreed. Maybe he wil send you some of his signing bonus.

ATXtexanfan
12-06-2009, 04:05 PM
Yeah, say what you want about one certain player not making a difference, but the fact remains . . .

. . the offense hasn't been the same since Daniels got hurt. He was THAT important.
Wow marcus, I love your opinions but to say OD is the key to the team doesn't make sense. I agree we haven't won but OD is just a pass catching TE. This team isn't complete and didn't reach unreal expectations. We are what we are. I love OD but he isn't the missing link to the playoffs.

gtexan02
12-07-2009, 11:07 AM
5-3 with OD, 0-4 without. Pretty easy math there

HoustonFrog
12-07-2009, 11:11 AM
I think the argument is being simplified. Does he make a difference?Yes. No doubt. Has it made such a difference that 0-4 is because of it? Not even close. The offense moved the ball many times yesterday. Walters has taken an OD like role and has gotten more involved. They just shot themselves in the foot. It has happened many games. Look at the first half vs the Colts. I see coaching and adjustments as more of the factor than just OD.

TimeKiller
12-07-2009, 11:11 AM
I don't believe we've scored over 20 without him either.

You can easily say we haven't won without him but what you can't say is whether or not we would've won with him.

Marcus
12-07-2009, 01:19 PM
I think the argument is being simplified. Does he make a difference?Yes. No doubt. Has it made such a difference that 0-4 is because of it? Not even close. The offense moved the ball many times yesterday. Walters has taken an OD like role and has gotten more involved. They just shot themselves in the foot. It has happened many games. Look at the first half vs the Colts. I see coaching and adjustments as more of the factor than just OD.

Coaching and adjustments were just as big a factor in the games when OD played, as when he wasn't. They haven't scored more than 20 points a game since OD went down. The matchup problem that OD gave the opposing defense cannot be overstated.

Even though we lost the last four games, they were all very close games. I say that if OD had played in those 4 games, and performed just as well in those four games like he did before he went down, there wouldn't be all this gargling on the 'pink soap'.

Vinny
12-07-2009, 02:07 PM
Coaching and adjustments were just as big a factor in the games when OD played, as when he wasn't. They haven't scored more than 20 points a game since OD went down. The matchup problem that OD gave the opposing defense cannot be overstated.

Even though we lost the last four games, they were all very close games. I say that if OD had played in those 4 games, and performed just as well in those four games like he did before he went down, there wouldn't be all this gargling on the 'pink soap'.each team has 22 starting players. Hell the Colts lose 2 all pros and a couple more players and they manage to play at a high level. Losing one guy and trying to tie all your wins and losses around that guy is ridiculous. Hell the Oilers beat the Chargers in the playoffs without Earl Campbell and Dan Pastorini...those guys were pretty good. Losing one guy ain't gonna kill a team sport where you have 22 starting players in a team game.

Scooter
12-07-2009, 02:14 PM
You just made Owen Daniels contract negotiation for him.

owen daniels is probably making more money by missing games this season than his previous performances. like i said elsewhere, we all knew how much owen meant to our offense, what we didnt know was how much trouble we were in without him.

I think the argument is being simplified. Does he make a difference?Yes. No doubt. Has it made such a difference that 0-4 is because of it? Not even close. The offense moved the ball many times yesterday. Walters has taken an OD like role and has gotten more involved. They just shot themselves in the foot. It has happened many games. Look at the first half vs the Colts. I see coaching and adjustments as more of the factor than just OD.

moving the ball has happened several times with some success since daniels went down, it hasnt happened in the middle of the field with anything resembling consistancy however. the only quarterback without a TE crutch is brady, but with faulk and welker and a spread offense he can do without. those yards as texans fans are all too familiar with dont mean points, which have taken a dramatic downturn in the past 4 weeks. it also limited our playcalling with TE screens and bootleg TE release plays and our old reliable play action 15 yard cross that we've leaned on - not to mention getting weird when we near the goalline. outside of arguably one redzone pass today, what routes has walter made completions on in those games that replace daniels? if anything anderson's done more, but that's his role anyways to take advantage of what owen and andre clear out. with owen on the field our lowest point total was 21 - good enough to win 2 of our 4 games since. by the numbers daniels put up during his games (subtracted by the few results by his replacements), our average would win all 4 games.

rjg2319
12-07-2009, 02:21 PM
Stats tell the tale:

Tight End Production

With OD: Wk 1-8:
40 rec, 519 yards, 5TD

After OD injury, (J. Casey, A. Hill, J. Dresseen): Wk 8-13
12 rec, 133 yards, 0TD (combined)

Don't forget that opponents also roll their coverage to AJ now
-notice the increase in thrown to, but without more catches.
Yesterday, 17 thrown to, 7 catches.

HoustonFrog
12-07-2009, 02:23 PM
each team has 22 starting players. Hell the Colts lose 2 all pros and a couple more players and they manage to play at a high level. Losing one guy and trying to tie all your wins and losses around that guy is ridiculous. Hell the Oilers beat the Chargers in the playoffs without Earl Campbell and Dan Pastorini...those guys were pretty good. Losing one guy ain't gonna kill a team sport where you have 22 starting players in a team game.

This

I mean the Colts lost Sanders and half their defense and won. I'm not sure if anyone here saw this but I posted this last week

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/091201&sportCat=nfl

With Bob Sanders and Marlin Jackson out for the season, and Dwight Freeney missing the contest with an injury, the Colts' defense started no one drafted higher than the third round. Big plays were made by Colts defensive starters Gary Brackett, Daniel Muir, Melvin Bullitt and Jacob Lacey, all of whom were undrafted free agents. Pierre Garçon, out of Division III Mount Union, caught a touchdown pass. Chad Simpson, undrafted out of Division I-AA Morgan State, scored a touchdown, breaking three tackles when Houston players tried to strip the ball. Robert Mathis, a low draft pick out of Division I-AA Alabama A&M, not only stripped Matt Schaub of the ball to set up the game-icing touchdown, he did so while being held by the Moo Cows' offensive line. I don't know what's in the water in Indiana, but it seems to turn unknowns into football players.

Teams all year have lost players to injury. OD was one component. The Texans scored 20 first half points last week and then got shut out. WR and the offense was suppsoed to be the strong point and where depth was with Casey and guys picking up slack. Now I see excuses again.

El Tejano
12-07-2009, 02:30 PM
I don't believe we've scored over 20 without him either.

You can easily say we haven't won without him but what you can't say is whether or not we would've won with him.

23 against Indy at home.

Texecutioner
12-07-2009, 02:43 PM
Coaching and adjustments were just as big a factor in the games when OD played, as when he wasn't. They haven't scored more than 20 points a game since OD went down. The matchup problem that OD gave the opposing defense cannot be overstated.

Even though we lost the last four games, they were all very close games. I say that if OD had played in those 4 games, and performed just as well in those four games like he did before he went down, there wouldn't be all this gargling on the 'pink soap'.

OD is a great TE, but you've got to be kidding me. We've been right there in several of those losses and a freaking kicker blew to of them, and Kubes had other monumental mistakes that killed us. We've had other people step up in the passing game. Being without OD has not even been a huge factor actually. OD's was taking a lot of catches away from Walter and now Walter's more involved again. We've been losing these games for the same reason we lost plenty of games last season. Poor clock management, bad calls, a lack luster effort at crunch time, critical mistakes, missed FG's, and etc. Not having OD is a major excuse.

Texecutioner
12-07-2009, 02:45 PM
each team has 22 starting players. Hell the Colts lose 2 all pros and a couple more players and they manage to play at a high level. Losing one guy and trying to tie all your wins and losses around that guy is ridiculous. Hell the Oilers beat the Chargers in the playoffs without Earl Campbell and Dan Pastorini...those guys were pretty good. Losing one guy ain't gonna kill a team sport where you have 22 starting players in a team game.

Exactly. Tried to rep you but I could not. Instead it went to Frog.

HoustonFrog
12-07-2009, 02:57 PM
Exactly. Tried to rep you but I could not. Instead it went to Frog.

I got him :)

TheRealJoker
12-07-2009, 03:56 PM
A bad redzone offense got worse when the all pro TE went down...

ZBS doesn't allow you to run well when the field gets small. Our personnel on the OL cant push the pile. Now we lose the TE who helped us pass in the redzone, we used to be better at getting tds in redzone situations (not that we will ever be worldbeaters with this coaching philosophy) and now we settle for FGs all too-often. I wonder if they'd run Chris Brown on 3rd and 3 inside the 10 if OD were in the lineup...

Texecutioner
12-07-2009, 04:02 PM
I wonder if they'd run Chris Brown on 3rd and 3 inside the 10 if OD were in the lineup...

That is pretty much a rhetorical question after Kubes let him run it at the end when he fumbled it and then the game where he got stuffed twice and then let him try and pass it. I don't think there is anything that Brown could do at this point that would kill the confidence Kubes has in that guy.

sportfan73
12-07-2009, 04:15 PM
we're avg. like 3 points less a game w/o him against stiffer comp.

TheRealJoker
12-07-2009, 05:51 PM
That is pretty much a rhetorical question after Kubes let him run it at the end when he fumbled it and then the game where he got stuffed twice and then let him try and pass it. I don't think there is anything that Brown could do at this point that would kill the confidence Kubes has in that guy.

A Texans fan can dream that the coaches want to get the ball in the hands of their playmakers during key plays of the game cant he?

TheRealJoker
12-07-2009, 05:54 PM
we're avg. like 3 points less a game w/o him against stiffer comp.

27 point game skews the average. We put up 17, 17, and 18 points in 3 other games. Only game we scored 21 points with OD was the Jets opening game disaster.

But lets say its not a big deal at all... I can think of at least 2 games offhand where if we got 3 extra points we wouldn't have had to find out Kris Brown was gonna choke until overtime... :(

NitroGSXR
12-15-2009, 05:47 PM
Owen Daniels has missed almost 6 games now (injured in first quarter of Buffalo game). He's still the #2 leader in receiving yards and TDs on the team. It's stunning to recognized just how much we relied on him. He was a true gem and we miss him terribly.

mussop
12-15-2009, 06:46 PM
This is just another example of Kubiak not being able to make the proper adjustments neccessary for a team to succeed in todays NFL.

Tailgate
12-15-2009, 07:11 PM
Since 2005, the Colts are 4-4 when Dallas Clark does not play. Not saying losing OD is the whole reason why we have fallen.... but I certainly think its a huge blow to this team and didnt help one bit.

JB
12-15-2009, 08:57 PM
Since 2005, the Colts are 4-4 when Dallas Clark does not play. Not saying losing OD is the whole reason why we have fallen.... but I certainly think its a huge blow to this team and didnt help one bit.

I agree. Schaub just does not have the same confidence in Dreesen...much less Casey. Then again, maybe Shanny does not have the same confidence. I think they are getting open, but it does not seem that many plays are called their way.

Joe Texan
12-15-2009, 09:48 PM
You naysayers are just flapping your gums together now. It is all layed out and you still try to sugar coat it with he was not that good, not to mention Schaub has had to rely on second string guards to guard against 1st string tackles and nose guards. Your gum flapping is laughable and I will be laughing all the way through the playoff run next year behind Kubiak.

worldlyman
12-16-2009, 09:00 AM
Owen Daniels is THE prime sled dog of the Houston Texans offense. If Schaub is the musher, then Daniels is the lead Malamute that keeps the freight moving through the difficult snow.

Sure, Andre is the flashy long range equalizer but having that safety valve tight end to keep the chains moving is nothing to sneeze at.

When the running game is non-existent, like Indy's, look how many times Manning gets it to Dallas Clark to keep the chains moving.

Even when a good running team like the Cowboys gets their rushing stuffed, like their most recent loss at the Giants, the tight end position becomes crucial. How many yards did Jason Witten get that day? Like over 150? If not for the special teams and defensive meltdowns, then that's a Cowboy victory.

I can't imagine the Colts being undefeated without Dallas Clark. When the Colts defense couldn't get off the field against the Dolphins earlier this year, didn't Peyton Manning use a great tight end to move the chains at crucial moments to the tune of 180 plus yards in victory?

So let us not underestimate the crucial import of Owen Daniels to the dynamics of the Texans offense. 5-3 with him, 1-4 without.

And it also helps that the Colts and Cowboys simply have a excellent defensive lines that excels which pressures the quarterback more so than the Texans.

HoustonFrog
12-16-2009, 09:19 AM
Owen Daniels is THE prime sled dog of the Houston Texans offense. If Schaub is the musher, then Daniels is the lead Malamute that keeps the freight moving through the difficult snow.

Sure, Andre is the flashy long range equalizer but having that safety valve tight end to keep the chains moving is nothing to sneeze at.

When the running game is non-existent, like Indy's, look how many times Manning gets it to Dallas Clark to keep the chains moving.

Even when a good running team like the Cowboys gets their rushing stuffed, like their most recent loss at the Giants, the tight end position becomes crucial. How many yards did Jason Witten get that day? Like over 150? If not for the special teams and defensive meltdowns, then that's a Cowboy victory.

I can't imagine the Colts being undefeated without Dallas Clark. When the Colts defense couldn't get off the field against the Dolphins earlier this year, didn't Peyton Manning use a great tight end to move the chains at crucial moments to the tune of 180 plus yards in victory?

So let us not underestimate the crucial import of Owen Daniels to the dynamics of the Texans offense. 5-3 with him, 1-4 without.

And it also helps that the Colts and Cowboys simply have a excellent defensive lines that excels which pressures the quarterback more so than the Texans.

Witten has had very few big games this year and there are still wins to show. In fact his biggest games have been losses. Yes he is important but a TE isn't the end all, be all. The Colts played us with 3 of their top playmakers on D gone and no one above a 3rd round pick playing and they are undefeated.

Also, you can't say that the Cowboys have D meltdowns and then say the Cowboys D-line is always getting pressure, etc. The D-line hasn't gotten enough pressure in games and they aren't too good at forcing turnovers so far.

Anyways, OD is important but that is why you have a vet like Dreissen and why you drafted the Rice kid. The offense has still clicked plenty. Everyone deals with injuries.

JB
12-16-2009, 09:36 AM
The Texans are who we thought they were.

It just makes me laugh when the Texans hype machine comes around. This could be "the year" guys. But then reality sinks in and expectations become fighting for a wild card and another 8-8 season.

One last thing, Brandon Marshall > Andre Johnson. The NFL record books agree, I mean how many times has he played the Colts? 10-12. But leave it to Marshall to show how it should be done......

Go Away Troll

Tailgate
12-16-2009, 01:05 PM
Witten has had very few big games this year and there are still wins to show. In fact his biggest games have been losses. Yes he is important but a TE isn't the end all, be all. The Colts played us with 3 of their top playmakers on D gone and no one above a 3rd round pick playing and they are undefeated.

Also, you can't say that the Cowboys have D meltdowns and then say the Cowboys D-line is always getting pressure, etc. The D-line hasn't gotten enough pressure in games and they aren't too good at forcing turnovers so far.

Anyways, OD is important but that is why you have a vet like Dreissen and why you drafted the Rice kid. The offense has still clicked plenty. Everyone deals with injuries.


However, the Cowgirls have a much more competent running game. We dont. We were able to survive much easier on offense with OD despite the lack of running game.

Texan_Bill
12-16-2009, 02:14 PM
Witten has had very few big games this year and there are still wins to show. In fact his biggest games have been losses. Yes he is important but a TE isn't the end all, be all. The Colts played us with 3 of their top playmakers on D gone and no one above a 3rd round pick playing and they are undefeated.

The tight end in this offense is extremely important (see Shannon Sharpe in Denver). BTW, you can try and downplay Witten's season but he's on pace for about 95 receptions this year.

Another huge difference when comparing the impportance of both tight ends to an offense; is that OD was on pace to score 10 TD's, Witten on the other hand is on pace for 1.2 TD's. I would say for red zone offense OD is extremely valuable.


Anyways, OD is important but that is why you have a vet like Dreissen and why you drafted the Rice kid. The offense has still clicked plenty. Everyone deals with injuries.

Pittsburgh dealt with Palomalu's injury very well. But then again that's why they have a veteran like Tyrone Carter, huh?

I'm not one to claim injuries as an excuse, but to deny OD's absence hasn't made a huge impact, is myopic at best.

Texecutioner
12-16-2009, 02:34 PM
I've never heard so many people act like losing a TE for the season is such a season ending tragedy for an entire team especially when that team has threats in the passing game like AJ, Walter, Jones, and Anderson and some pretty decent TE options as far as blocking. I've watched Dallas Clark get hurt for the Colts before and it didn't make that much of a difference neither did it for Chargers when Gates went down for a while. We drafted two TE's fairly early in the draft as well and that was supposed to be for a reason. It's not like rookie TE's aren't able to come into the NFL and be productive right away if used properly and they have the talent.

And then what really gets me is the people that use this as an excuse for losing games aren't clammoring and going nuts trying to figure out why the Texans management hasn't extended Daniels contract yet if they think he is that important to us winning games.

Texan_Bill
12-16-2009, 02:40 PM
Lets see. A pro-bowl TE that had 40 receptions, 519 yards and 5 TD's in less than half a season. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight!! There won't be any drop off, especially in the Red Zone when there's no running game to speak of... :ok:

AGAIN, I don't use injuries as an excuse but it's flat out myopic for anyone to deny that his absence has had an impact..

spurstexanstros
12-16-2009, 05:26 PM
Bottom line to this thread....sign OD now sign him sign him sign him.

Wins are nice but I just want My "Open" Daniels jersey that I have been begging the Texans to sell and which they dont until final year of his contract.

Oh yeah OD is the best Tightend in the AFC..you may want to lock that up because imagine him in a Titans uniform........eeeeeeewwwww

Texan_Bill
12-16-2009, 05:30 PM
imagine him in a Titans uniform........eeeeeeewwwww

:thinking:

I just threw up in my mouth a little.

Goldensilence
12-16-2009, 11:29 PM
Yep I'm sure right now there's a lot of Steelers fans saying No Polamalu = no winning season right now too.

:pop:

Texan_Bill
12-17-2009, 08:58 AM
Yep I'm sure right now there's a lot of Steelers fans saying No Polamalu = no winning season right now too.

:pop:

Have you read their boards? Probably not, because a lot of them are saying that. The others are blaming their skid on Tomlin and even comparing him to Switzer.

Mike Tomlin = Barry Switzer? (http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?t=44140)

On another note, it's nice to know that our fanbase isn't the only one that goes crazy, stupid, nuts.

infantrycak
12-17-2009, 09:14 AM
Have you read their boards? Probably not, because a lot of them are saying that. The others are blaming their skid on Tomlin and even comparing him to Switzer.

Mike Tomlin = Barry Switzer? (http://forums.steelersfever.com/showthread.php?t=44140)

On another note, it's nice to know that our fanbase isn't the only one that goes crazy, stupid, nuts.

Yup, I have several Steelers fans as friends. Funny how much the comments sound the same. Tomlin shows no passion on the sideline. He and the OC calling bad games. Parker goes down with a pinkie push. Big Ben is holding the ball too long and not showing good pocket presence, staring down receivers, etc.

Texan_Bill
12-17-2009, 09:17 AM
Yup, I have several Steelers fans as friends. Funny how much the comments sound the same. Tomlin shows no passion on the sideline. He and the OC calling bad games. Parker goes down with a pinkie push. Big Ben is holding the ball too long and not showing good pocket presence, staring down receivers, etc.

:clap:

Exactly. Same crap, different stink.