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badboy
12-04-2009, 01:49 PM
After much research and careful plotting er thinking I do the following this off season regardless of play or record.

Dunta Robinson, thanks for the minimal memories and frequent "ahs" over your hitting and groans at your lack of coverage skills. You are gone.

OD: I like your play despite your disagreement with $ offered. If you heal enough that I think you can play (see DR two years ago) I will again offer you a very lucrative deal with emphasis on incentatives first year and back loaded to protect team in case you lose your edge. A pretty healthy bonus which you earned by your pro bowl play before your injury. If you hesitate, you get the tag. Injuries go either way and I can't wait two seasons for you to ramp up ala DR. Let's make this work.

Glover Quin: You are now my starting FS. Shut up Gary & play the kid. When you drafted him for CB he was rated as nation's 7th best FS by NFL Draft Scout.

DTackle: I think we will be ok with what we have but will sign a FA.

Drafting at #15

1. CB Joe Haden starts day one & replaces DR. May be gone, if so I select U.T. free safety Thomas who will be insane to remain for senior. I move Quinn to CB. If no Thomas, Wilson is starting FS, I make the fans mad by moving Asamoah up and picking CB Perrish Cox in 2nd.

2. LG Jon Asamoah replaces Studdard and with Brown secures left side for years.

3. RB Toby Gerhart does not get invite to Heisman and as months have passed since his last game, he drops. Combine pushes him up briefly, but he falls in draft. Gary, the old any back can get a 1,000 does not fly and Slaton's 08 season was an aberration as he should not be the featured back. Let him have a lengthy career doing what he was drafted for. He will make you some money.

4. CB Kyle Wilson this speedster 4.42 should win starting role over Quin if we did not get Haden, moving Glover to FS. As a punt return man, Wilson led nation on TD returns. Jacoby concentrates on WR. Even if we have Haden or Cox, Wilson is our nickle.

5. C/G/T Thomas Austin drops because of other guards and centers taken ahead of him. Those teams are wrong. Better prospect than Caldwell was and should replace Myers as soon as Kube's feels ok with his play calling. Myers and Brisiel are back ups and Pitts is a goner. Mel Kiper rates Wilson as best 2010 center in draft.

6A. ILB Von Miller yeah locals know him but few others. 17 QB sacks 43 tackles (2009) 6'3" 240. Even if he goes higher, no loss and I like Baylor's OLB Joe Pawelek. Only 2.5 sacks but 109 tackles and 1 INT. I am okay with our current LBs but these are quality buys here. If I get Miller, I might just take Joe P. with 2nd sixth (Travis Johnson is crapping all over a move up to 5th with 9 tackles so far) anyways 'cause I'm greedy.
6B if necessary FS/CB Robert Johnson Utah 6'2" 4.52 2008 4 INTS 2009 5 INTS
7. BPA

The above is based on a 4-3 and Kubes coaching. If NE swaps and gives a 2nd or two seconds for our first: Asamoah, Gerhart, Perrish Cox and follow with Morgan Burnett FS in 3rd.

rmartin65
12-04-2009, 03:59 PM
I could go on board with this. If Gerhart makes it to the third, I think its chancy right now. Depends on the combine, pro days, and the all-star games, but I would be ecstatic if he dropped that far. Your guys are good though, this would get an A+ from me. I like the Austin pick, he is my second center after Walton from Baylor.

Wolf6151
12-04-2009, 06:09 PM
I really like this draft, it mirrors one I've been working on pretty closely, with the exception of Kyle Wilson. I really like Wilson, he'll be a steal in the 3rd or later, but I don't think he'll be available in the 4th round, he'll most likely go in the 2nd or early 3rd.

mussop
12-04-2009, 10:59 PM
:clap: Nice mock.

LonerATO
12-04-2009, 11:58 PM
After much research and careful plotting er thinking I do the following this off season regardless of play or record.

Dunta Robinson, thanks for the minimal memories and frequent "ahs" over your hitting and groans at your lack of coverage skills. You are gone.

OD: I like your play despite your disagreement with $ offered. If you heal enough that I think you can play (see DR two years ago) I will again offer you a very lucrative deal with emphasis on incentatives first year and back loaded to protect team in case you lose your edge. A pretty healthy bonus which you earned by your pro bowl play before your injury. If you hesitate, you get the tag. Injuries go either way and I can't wait two seasons for you to ramp up ala DR. Let's make this work.

Glover Quin: You are now my starting FS. Shut up Gary & play the kid. When you drafted him for CB he was rated as nation's 7th best FS by NFL Draft Scout.

DTackle: I think we will be ok with what we have but will sign a FA.

Drafting at #15

1. CB Joe Haden starts day one & replaces DR. May be gone, if so I select U.T. free safety Thomas who will be insane to remain for senior. I move Quinn to CB. If no Thomas, Wilson is starting FS, I make the fans mad by moving Asamoah up and picking CB Perrish Cox in 2nd.

2. LG Jon Asamoah replaces Studdard and with Brown secures left side for years.

3. RB Toby Gerhart does not get invite to Heisman and as months have passed since his last game, he drops. Combine pushes him up briefly, but he falls in draft. Gary, the old any back can get a 1,000 does not fly and Slaton's 08 season was an aberration as he should not be the featured back. Let him have a lengthy career doing what he was drafted for. He will make you some money.

4. CB Kyle Wilson this speedster 4.42 should win starting role over Quin if we did not get Haden, moving Glover to FS. As a punt return man, Wilson led nation on TD returns. Jacoby concentrates on WR. Even if we have Haden or Cox, Wilson is our nickle.

5. C/G/T Thomas Austin drops because of other guards and centers taken ahead of him. Those teams are wrong. Better prospect than Caldwell was and should replace Myers as soon as Kube's feels ok with his play calling. Myers and Brisiel are back ups and Pitts is a goner. Mel Kiper rates Wilson as best 2010 center in draft.

6A. ILB Von Miller yeah locals know him but few others. 17 QB sacks 43 tackles (2009) 6'3" 240. Even if he goes higher, no loss and I like Baylor's OLB Joe Pawelek. Only 2.5 sacks but 109 tackles and 1 INT. I am okay with our current LBs but these are quality buys here. If I get Miller, I might just take Joe P. with 2nd sixth (Travis Johnson is crapping all over a move up to 5th with 9 tackles so far) anyways 'cause I'm greedy.
6B if necessary FS/CB Robert Johnson Utah 6'2" 4.52 2008 4 INTS 2009 5 INTS
7. BPA

The above is based on a 4-3 and Kubes coaching. If NE swaps and gives a 2nd or two seconds for our first: Asamoah, Gerhart, Perrish Cox and follow with Morgan Burnett FS in 3rd.

I have been talking up Wilson this whole year and think that the Texans can get him in the 2nd - 3rd, but as far as Earl Thomas he has said he is staying. I dont see Von Mille going passed the 2nd round, as he will be one of the top DE/OLB guys on the board and there are a lot more 3-4 teams this year. I like your 2nd round pick at OG and 5th round picking being BPA DT/OL. I dont see NE going back into the 1st round for the a 2nd first round pick. Hell NE has made a living off trading into the 2nd round to get great talent at a lesser price.

beerlover
12-05-2009, 09:03 AM
great mock if it happens, but honestly not realistic & paints best possible scenero every round, it is fun to dream however :snowday:

mussop
12-05-2009, 10:42 AM
Im not sure I would draft a Guard in the second round. It seems like the guard positoin has become a position that can be filled later. Sergio Rendar is the only guy that I have seen so far that I would consider taking befor the 3rd round. The 2009 Draft was complete lunacy when it came down to the OG position. Guys like Duke Robinson, the best OG on most boards, and Herman Johnson weren't drafted until well into Round 5. While big guys arent wanted
at the position in our current scheme it still looks like there will be talent available with quickness and strength at the position late in the draft. At any event, the top talent at the guard position should be even better for 2010's draft.

steelbtexan
12-05-2009, 10:50 AM
great mock if it happens, but honestly not realistic & paints best possible scenero every round, it is fun to dream however :snowday:

Yep

Let him dream,

Dreaming cant hurt

Honoring Earl 34
12-05-2009, 10:56 AM
Let's see what the old Draft Tek says .

http://www.drafttek.com/round12010.asp

awtysst
12-05-2009, 11:13 AM
Let's see what the old Draft Tek says .

http://www.drafttek.com/round12010.asp

The first two rounds they have us taking Bandon Spikes ILB, FLorida and Trevard Lindley CB, Kentucky. This would be the kind of move you would make if you were switching to a 3-4. Spikes would be a good compliment to Meco in the middle and Cush and Barwin would be your OLBs. Mario would shift to LE. Of course with a 3-4 you would need to have a big NT (like a Casey Hampton) and may need to slide Smith to RE or find a journeyman RE to compliment.

Lindley is a bump and run man to man corner. He would be horrible in Zone. So, he could be a DR replacement.

mussop
12-05-2009, 12:49 PM
Lindley is a bump and run man to man corner. He would be horrible in Zone. So, he could be a DR replacement.

Just curious, where do you come up with these conclusions? Do you watch these players and decide on your own or do you just regurgitate what you have read elsewhere? Not being a smart ass just wondering. I just dont know how you can say he would be horrible in a zone just by watching him a few times a year on TV.

rmartin65
12-05-2009, 01:25 PM
Just curious, where do you come up with these conclusions? Do you watch these players and decide on your own or do you just regurgitate what you have read elsewhere? Not being a smart ass just wondering. I just dont know how you can say he would be horrible in a zone just by watching him a few times a year on TV.

I cant speak for him or anyone else, but I normally watch 3 to 4 games as well as read up about players. To put it simply, I dont have enough time to watch every player every game. As it is, I watch more football than I probably should. But I feel that by watching a decent amount and reading multiple sources I get a fairly accurate opinion.

treduke
12-05-2009, 01:27 PM
mocks are fun but at the end of the day they are based on opinion
an example is i like the nose tackle cody from alabama a lot people dont so my mock would reflect my opinion that cody is a good nt

awtysst
12-05-2009, 02:08 PM
Just curious, where do you come up with these conclusions? Do you watch these players and decide on your own or do you just regurgitate what you have read elsewhere? Not being a smart ass just wondering. I just dont know how you can say he would be horrible in a zone just by watching him a few times a year on TV.

At the beginning of each college football season, I zero in on a group of prospects that I think are worth watching. I then figure out the teams they play for, the teams they play against and make sure I watch them in at least 3 games each. In addition I do a lot of research on 40 times and the ol football smell test.

The nice thing about watching major conference play is you get to see multiple prospects in a game. Take a Bama-Florida game. Think how many players you will get to see there. So, really if you do your homework and plan ahead of time, you can see all the players you want without a ton of investment time. Also the Texas-nebraska game tonight. You have Suh on the Dline against Utolski on the OT. You can also see Asante(CB), Sergio kindle, Earl Thomas, Thenarse, Houston, etc. Lots of quality players with little real investment. Just grab a pad of paper, note the players you are looking at and sit back and enjoy. Planning is the name of the game and it helps me tremendously.

The reason I say he can be bad in zone is because I see the way he plays. He bumps and run as a man corner. In a Zone scheme you need to get into your zone on the field and then quickly make a break for the ball. Linds ran a poor 40 time at his Kentucky Pro day last year(4.53). This suggests to me that he cannot make up ground very easily. He needs to push and pull the receiver at the LOS because his recovery speed is not the best. So, asking him to go to a zone on the field, asking him to read the coverage, and then breaking back towards the ball does not seem to play to his strengths.

Therefore, my assessment of him was that he would not be a good zone corner and a much better man corner.

I understand that there are a lot of people that simply base their opinions on what others say. But you should know that the Draft Guru, would never do this!

WolverineFan
12-06-2009, 03:16 PM
A couple things . . .

Earl Thomas is just a (RS) Sophomore and it is very likely that he will return for his Junior year at Texas. I'd say 60-40 odds he goes back. I'd take Joe Haden in a heartbeat though if he's available.

Toby Gerhart will not last till the 3rd round.

Kyle Wilson is purely a speed guy. He is overrated at his position because he is faster than the guys he plays against. He will not have that speed advantage in the NFL and he does not have that good of actual cover skills. He is a gifted kick returner, that's about it.

We run a 4-3 and Von Miller is not a DE or an OLB. Where does he fit in? His only position at the next level is as a 3-4 rush LB.

pbat488
12-07-2009, 08:54 AM
Like the draft; but hopefully Von stays for his final year, he is one of the only bright spots on our D..

On a side note, Von is freaking hilarious off the field, as soon as he's done on the field he should be a color commentator for any network in the country.

kastofsna
12-07-2009, 09:09 AM
yet another Gerhart to Houston mock ;)

this is definitely a very very hopeful mock draft. i'm not sure Haden lasts that long (looks like a sure top 10 guy) and i doubt Gerhart does as well.

badboy
12-07-2009, 10:57 AM
I have been talking up Wilson this whole year and think that the Texans can get him in the 2nd - 3rd, but as far as Earl Thomas he has said he is staying. I dont see Von Mille going passed the 2nd round, as he will be one of the top DE/OLB guys on the board and there are a lot more 3-4 teams this year. I like your 2nd round pick at OG and 5th round picking being BPA DT/OL. I dont see NE going back into the 1st round for the a 2nd first round pick. Hell NE has made a living off trading into the 2nd round to get great talent at a lesser price.
I am in agreement on the trade down with Pats as they had a similar situation last draft and did not trade up. I only included as on another thread someone had discussed the possibility. I think if we draft high enough Wilson may get pushed down to us. Maybe some teams will be leery of Boise' record. If we get Haden and Wilson not there, I'd still like another CB. Fortunately the draft is fairly deep.

badboy
12-07-2009, 11:40 AM
great mock if it happens, but honestly not realistic & paints best possible scenero every round, it is fun to dream however :snowday:Beerlover for once we disagree. I think it is very possible that each player will be available. These picks as stated are at #15. i will not do an NFL round one mock until probably well after February, Haden could drop. Remember that Macolm Jenkins was rated #1 CB for two staright years and went back to school the first and then was drafted just before Texans at # 14 by Saints. This imo is very realistic pick. Same with Asamoah and my scenario with Gerhart may also realistically happen. Many are just now hearing about this RB and talking him up for Heisman. As other have pointed out each season 2-3 running backs have great productivity and are raved about only to drop in draft. Rashad Jennings is an example. Wilson is where I am may be dreaming but due to numerous CBs with similar skills it comes down to who the teams see fitting their needs. Thanks for your input as always. Steve

badboy
12-07-2009, 11:55 AM
Im not sure I would draft a Guard in the second round. It seems like the guard positoin has become a position that can be filled later. Sergio Rendar is the only guy that I have seen so far that I would consider taking befor the 3rd round. The 2009 Draft was complete lunacy when it came down to the OG position. Guys like Duke Robinson, the best OG on most boards, and Herman Johnson weren't drafted until well into Round 5. While big guys arent wanted
at the position in our current scheme it still looks like there will be talent available with quickness and strength at the position late in the draft. At any event, the top talent at the guard position should be even better for 2010's draft.These were my thoughts until the season progressed. My earlier mocks had Thomas Austin LG/C/T and another guard in 4th and 5th. My thinking was Kubes liked Studdard and the kid did have a mean streak. However, he just doesn't have the skills to be a starter. I think CHris WHite is not even a back up. I will be stunned if Pitts is offered a new contract and we have no way of knowing if Bisiel will return healthy. Most of us have been upset with the running games especially in the Red Zone (see Kube's half back pass into end zone against Jags) I do think a back like Gerhart would do well behind the current line. Why not solidify the offense with Asamoah who plays in a ZBS that lead his school to the cenference passing lead in 08? At 315 he is at the upper limits for ZBS and is known for his bull rushes that knock the D back. He can finesse or forward block.

In my mind if we had the exact same line up we used Sunday and had Asamaoah blocking for Gerhart, we easily win and probably would have beat Tennessee and the Colts twice.

badboy
12-07-2009, 12:04 PM
Let's see what the old Draft Tek says .

http://www.drafttek.com/round12010.asp i started pulling my pant legs up when I saw Colt McCoy at #10. I think McCoy lost the Heisman against Nebraska, but if he gets it that only increase the $ a tram would have to give him. Sikes is a good LB but not on our list of priorities especialy after DIles stepped up. Lindley is good but I also have a ? how h would do in our defense. Maybe if we draft Haden in first and Lindley were to replace Reeves...

badboy
12-07-2009, 12:06 PM
mocks are fun but at the end of the day they are based on opinion
an example is i like the nose tackle cody from alabama a lot people dont so my mock would reflect my opinion that cody is a good ntEven after his play Saturday?

badboy
12-07-2009, 12:13 PM
At the beginning of each college football season, I zero in on a group of prospects that I think are worth watching. I then figure out the teams they play for, the teams they play against and make sure I watch them in at least 3 games each. In addition I do a lot of research on 40 times and the ol football smell test.

The nice thing about watching major conference play is you get to see multiple prospects in a game. Take a Bama-Florida game. Think how many players you will get to see there. So, really if you do your homework and plan ahead of time, you can see all the players you want without a ton of investment time. Also the Texas-nebraska game tonight. You have Suh on the Dline against Utolski on the OT. You can also see Asante(CB), Sergio kindle, Earl Thomas, Thenarse, Houston, etc. Lots of quality players with little real investment. Just grab a pad of paper, note the players you are looking at and sit back and enjoy. Planning is the name of the game and it helps me tremendously.

The reason I say he can be bad in zone is because I see the way he plays. He bumps and run as a man corner. In a Zone scheme you need to get into your zone on the field and then quickly make a break for the ball. Linds ran a poor 40 time at his Kentucky Pro day last year(4.53). This suggests to me that he cannot make up ground very easily. He needs to push and pull the receiver at the LOS because his recovery speed is not the best. So, asking him to go to a zone on the field, asking him to read the coverage, and then breaking back towards the ball does not seem to play to his strengths.

Therefore, my assessment of him was that he would not be a good zone corner and a much better man corner.

I understand that there are a lot of people that simply base their opinions on what others say. But you should know that the Draft Guru, would never do this!:goodpost: This past weekend was a good day for draftnicks and I was able to see what all the hub bub was about on Suh (he is great though he was neutralized a lot also) and to confirm my opinion on Cody (not interested). I may do a thread on my observations on the guys I watched play later as that would really stir some of you up.

rmartin65
12-07-2009, 12:48 PM
Another thing to consider is the ZBS might not be here next year. Lets face it, its been a failure this year. With Kubes (most likely) on his way out, I dont see any reason for Gibbs to stay. Asamoah and my favorite OG in the draft, Iupati, would be great guards in other schemes. I think this team can easily turn into a power run game, we only need two pieces.

LT- Brown is good. He is strong, agile and quick, he is a keeper.
LG- Pitts could play the power scheme, he could stay for a while.
OC- Need someone. But we would need somebody anyway without a switch.
RG- Brisiel I really dont know enough about. But I think Caldwell would be a pretty good power guard.
RT- Winston is a great fit here.

So there we go, a center and a guard need to be drafted. And I think most people would agree that we need those anyway.

beerlover
12-07-2009, 01:17 PM
Another thing to consider is the ZBS might not be here next year. Lets face it, its been a failure this year. With Kubes (most likely) on his way out, I dont see any reason for Gibbs to stay. Asamoah and my favorite OG in the draft, Iupati, would be great guards in other schemes. I think this team can easily turn into a power run game, we only need two pieces.

LT- Brown is good. He is strong, agile and quick, he is a keeper.
LG- Pitts could play the power scheme, he could stay for a while.
OC- Need someone. But we would need somebody anyway without a switch.
RG- Brisiel I really dont know enough about. But I think Caldwell would be a pretty good power guard.
RT- Winston is a great fit here.

So there we go, a center and a guard need to be drafted. And I think most people would agree that we need those anyway.

yes

how much do we know about Caldwell, that would be my question?

badboy
12-07-2009, 01:35 PM
A couple things . . .

Earl Thomas is just a (RS) Sophomore and it is very likely that he will return for his Junior year at Texas. I'd say 60-40 odds he goes back. I'd take Joe Haden in a heartbeat though if he's available.

Toby Gerhart will not last till the 3rd round.

Kyle Wilson is purely a speed guy. He is overrated at his position because he is faster than the guys he plays against. He will not have that speed advantage in the NFL and he does not have that good of actual cover skills. He is a gifted kick returner, that's about it.

We run a 4-3 and Von Miller is not a DE or an OLB. Where does he fit in? His only position at the next level is as a 3-4 rush LB.I'll stand by by post that Thomas would be insane to remain another year but I'll not be shocked if he does. He will be a high first round and remaining a year does nothing for him. There are some guys from last season who should be kicking themselves for not coming out in last draft. McCoy, I can understand because he had the Vince thing going and so many early comments about his skills. Even Brown signed another QB just in case. Thomas needs to get under NFL coaching and start cashing some large checks.

Gerhart, you could be correct and I have moved him all over my mocks since RMartin 65 introduced him to me. Find another mock prior to his 205 yards two Saturday's ago with him higher than 3rd. My comments in thread gives my position. Do not be surprised as we get closer to draft that I move him up.

Kyle Wilson, I think you are wrong on Wilson but hope 31 general managers agree with you. He has had 8 INTS in 2 years. Remember, if my draft goes my way, we have Haden starting with Wilson replacing Jacoby "just call me Junior High"Jones. Kyle's coverage skills will only improve and NFL WR will be fast but 4.42 is fast. Just ask DR who has made quite a few millions as a not so fast, not so good coverage guy playing as our #1 CB. WIlson would be our nickle replacing Quin who I move to FS and would not be going up against ones and twos

badboy
12-07-2009, 01:39 PM
Like the draft; but hopefully Von stays for his final year, he is one of the only bright spots on our D..
On a side note, Von is freaking hilarious off the field, as soon as he's done on the field he should be a color commentator for any network in the country.Great for fans but not for him. He could just as easily revert to previous years. He could be a boom or bust guy and is well worth a later day pick. I could see him being talked into "showing the world you are now a premier sack guy one more year." What is your take on your competitor Joe Pawelek from Baylor?

badboy
12-07-2009, 01:40 PM
yet another Gerhart to Houston mock ;)

this is definitely a very very hopeful mock draft. i'm not sure Haden lasts that long (looks like a sure top 10 guy) and i doubt Gerhart does as well.Malcom Jenkins does not effect your thinking? He should.

Vinny
12-07-2009, 01:43 PM
I don't think I'll be able to get into the draft as much this year. It's no longer "the bright spot" of our season as I don't see this team as an expansion team....just a loser at this point. I'm sure I'll get excited about some new players around APRIL next year, but I guess when your team never improves it just gets old.

badboy
12-07-2009, 01:45 PM
A couple things . . .

Earl Thomas is just a (RS) Sophomore and it is very likely that he will return for his Junior year at Texas. I'd say 60-40 odds he goes back. I'd take Joe Haden in a heartbeat though if he's available.

Toby Gerhart will not last till the 3rd round.

Kyle Wilson is purely a speed guy. He is overrated at his position because he is faster than the guys he plays against. He will not have that speed advantage in the NFL and he does not have that good of actual cover skills. He is a gifted kick returner, that's about it.

We run a 4-3 and Von Miller is not a DE or an OLB. Where does he fit in? His only position at the next level is as a 3-4 rush LB.I'd used him similar to Conner Barwin. You find a place for those skills and if only a 6th you can school him up for an entire contract and cost you little. He is 6'3" and 240 and could spot replace either Diles or Cush.

badboy
12-07-2009, 03:31 PM
I don't think I'll be able to get into the draft as much this year. It's no longer "the bright spot" of our season as I don't see this team as an expansion team....just a loser at this point. I'm sure I'll get excited about some new players around APRIL next year, but I guess when your team never improves it just gets old.You are just dealing with depression, Vinny. Replace Studdard with Asamoah, Caldwell for Briesel (or which is better) and add a power back and the entire O is way more productive. Could keep D off the field about 30% more, also. Haden is the real deal and Quinn can play FS. NFLdraftscout ranked him #7 FS in nation when he came out. What is "glass 1/2 full" for me is the teams we could have beat with the players we have. Add quality guys in draft and we could have a darn good team. I just think Kubes is not the guy.

pbat488
12-07-2009, 06:44 PM
Great for fans but not for him. He could just as easily revert to previous years. He could be a boom or bust guy and is well worth a later day pick. I could see him being talked into "showing the world you are now a premier sack guy one more year." What is your take on your competitor Joe Pawelek from Baylor?

I hope he stays not just for the good of the team, but for himself as well. He is truly a tweener who is hard to project at the NFL level because his combination of athleticism and size is good in college football but is somewhat average in the NFL, however he has been a very good pass rusher this year so there will always be a place for him. Hopefully he stays to refine his technique and pick up new moves before he enters the draft.

As for Pawelek, to be honest, I've watched probably the same amount on him as you and he's never really stood out to me. I can't even remember if he played at the A&M-Baylor game this year; I think he did but his supporting cast is so weak that it really didn't help him standout.

ArlingtonTexan
12-08-2009, 12:49 AM
You are just dealing with depression, Vinny. Replace Studdard with Asamoah, Caldwell for Briesel (or which is better) and add a power back and the entire O is way more productive. Could keep D off the field about 30% more, also. Haden is the real deal and Quinn can play FS. NFLdraftscout ranked him #7 FS in nation when he came out. What is "glass 1/2 full" for me is the teams we could have beat with the players we have. Add quality guys in draft and we could have a darn good team. I just think Kubes is not the guy.

He is not dealing with depression as much as he like I have been following when Joel Bushbaum was alive and when you called Mel Kiper you got him or his wife on the phone line to take your order. We know the realities of the draft, essentailly a few things happen

1) your team will not draft the players you fall in love with
2) those players you fall in love and are "better" than the the guys already on you team will suck as NLFers.
3) Especially when you are dealing with guys this early , players who are thought of a 1st rounder may not even get drafted and guys none of you are discussing right now are going to go in the first/second round ancd actually will be good.

The draft was a lot more fun when it was an activity we nerds spent a couple months on it versus people who seem to care more about it than the actual games that are played. If you are making a mock before the season ends and all the players are announced for the draft you have your priorities screwed up.

The best thing to do is to learn about as many players generally as you can and the needs/philosophy of as many teams as possible. Some of us who watch a ton of college football, the combine, and everything else will be lucky as hell to get 2 out 7/8 picks right for our teams when the actual event happens.

Sorry, you got a rant that has been building up since I saw the first mock draft/wish list somewhere around Labor Day. Watch college football and enjoy it with the hope the team drafts one player that you give damn about before he is on the Texans.

Honoring Earl 34
12-08-2009, 07:16 AM
He is not dealing with depression as much as he like I have been following when Joel Bushbaum was alive and when you called Mel Kiper you got him or his wife on the phone line to take your order. We know the realities of the draft, essentailly a few things happen

1) your team will not draft the players you fall in love with
2) those players you fall in love and are "better" than the the guys already on you team will suck as NLFers.
3) Especially when you are dealing with guys this early , players who are thought of a 1st rounder may not even get drafted and guys none of you are discussing right now are going to go in the first/second round ancd actually will be good.

The draft was a lot more fun when it was an activity we nerds spent a couple months on it versus people who seem to care more about it than the actual games that are played. If you are making a mock before the season ends and all the players are announced for the draft you have your priorities screwed up.

The best thing to do is to learn about as many players generally as you can and the needs/philosophy of as many teams as possible. Some of us who watch a ton of college football, the combine, and everything else will be lucky as hell to get 2 out 7/8 picks right for our teams when the actual event happens.

Sorry, you got a rant that has been building up since I saw the first mock draft/wish list somewhere around Labor Day. Watch college football and enjoy it with the hope the team drafts one player that you give damn about before he is on the Texans.

Is this like not playing Christmas music until after Thanksgiving ?

I see it as identifying what you percieve the Texans needs . The players don't really matter at this point .

badboy
12-08-2009, 12:08 PM
He is not dealing with depression as much as he like I have been following when Joel Bushbaum was alive and when you called Mel Kiper you got him or his wife on the phone line to take your order. We know the realities of the draft, essentailly a few things happen

1) your team will not draft the players you fall in love with
2) those players you fall in love and are "better" than the the guys already on you team will suck as NLFers.
3) Especially when you are dealing with guys this early , players who are thought of a 1st rounder may not even get drafted and guys none of you are discussing right now are going to go in the first/second round ancd actually will be good.

The draft was a lot more fun when it was an activity we nerds spent a couple months on it versus people who seem to care more about it than the actual games that are played. If you are making a mock before the season ends and all the players are announced for the draft you have your priorities screwed up.

The best thing to do is to learn about as many players generally as you can and the needs/philosophy of as many teams as possible. Some of us who watch a ton of college football, the combine, and everything else will be lucky as hell to get 2 out 7/8 picks right for our teams when the actual event happens.

Sorry, you got a rant that has been building up since I saw the first mock draft/wish list somewhere around Labor Day. Watch college football and enjoy it with the hope the team drafts one player that you give damn about before he is on the Texans.Well thanks for the insults and it really sucks to be you.

WHen I purchase a new automobile, I don't wait until the car is in the show room. In 2005, I found out Pontiac was testing a new roadster to compete with Porsche. When I slid into the show room car in late 2006, I was prepared for what to look for. Many of the original problems had been worked out and I was able to decide on the Solstice rather than the Sebring, Cougar, Boxster or wait for the Sky. Even if I had not purchased (drafted) the car (player) I wanted, it was fun for me to do. FYI, I have purchased a 2006, 2007 and am driving the 2008.
I spoke to Joel B two years prior to his death and his info was a constant source to me for my boards.

I am surprised that such a puritan as you even read the thread. Fans like you who pat themselves on their NFL regulation jersey or wave your season ticket at me because I choose to watch game on TV, make me snicker. You may have noticed I do post occasionally in the football forum. You have fun your way and allow the rest of us and there are a few, to seek our enjoyment where we choose.

Bye now.

rmartin65
12-08-2009, 12:12 PM
Well thanks for the insults and it really sucks to be you.

WHen I purchase a new automobile, I don't wait until the car is in the show room. In 2005, I found out Pontiac was testing a new roadster to compete with Porsche. When I slid into the show room car in late 2006, I was prepared for what to look for. Many of the original problems had been worked out and I was able to decide on the Solstice rather than the Sebring, Cougar, Boxster or wait for the Sky. Even if I had not purchased (drafted) the car (player) I wanted, it was fun for me to do. FYI, I have purchased a 2006, 2007 and am driving the 2008.
I spoke to Joel B two years prior to his death and his info was a constant source to me for my boards.

I am surprised that such a puritan as you even read the thread. Fans like you who pat themselves on their NFL regulation jersey or wave your season ticket at me because I choose to watch game on TV, make me snicker. You may have noticed I do post occasionally in the football forum. You have fun your way and allow the rest of us and there are a few, to seek our enjoyment where we choose.

Bye now.

Must spread rep.

Different people enjoy different things. The Texans are my team. I love watching them on TV. I dont live near Houston, so I rarely do, so it is very valuable for me.

However, I love the draft. I love the not knowing of what is going to happen. I love trying to figure out teams weaknesses, strengths, etc. The draft accompanies the actual games, not takes the place of.

badboy
12-08-2009, 12:30 PM
Must spread rep.

Different people enjoy different things. The Texans are my team. I love watching them on TV. I dont live near Houston, so I rarely do, so it is very valuable for me.

However, I love the draft. I love the not knowing of what is going to happen. I love trying to figure out teams weaknesses, strengths, etc. The draft accompanies the actual games, not takes the place of.Agreed, my friend. The difference is we don't try to put down other posters for their threads. I we don't like the topic, we simply move on.

Did you get a chance to watch any of the games last Saturday? Haden and Ingram really impressed me and Mike Johnson G looked steady if not spectacular.

beerlover
12-08-2009, 12:57 PM
Sad indictment as any :hairpull: that our senior mod has lost the joy of his team & very building blocks of its formation, choosing to neglect draft activities :yawn: I'm sure someday the same fate awaits all of us but at least for now, "not so fast" :jogger:

badboy
12-08-2009, 01:03 PM
Sad indictment as any :hairpull: that our senior mod has lost the joy of his team & very building blocks of its formation, choosing to neglect draft activities :yawn: I'm sure someday the same fate awaits all of us but at least for now, "not so fast" :jogger:I am after a guard to replace Studdard. I am assuming you watched the Alabama/Florida game? How did you evaluate Mike Johnson? SOme others have said he was bascially worthless, but I think he held his own.

Vinny
12-08-2009, 01:12 PM
Sad indictment as any :hairpull: that our senior mod has lost the joy of his team & very building blocks of its formation, choosing to neglect draft activities :yawn: I'm sure someday the same fate awaits all of us but at least for now, "not so fast" :jogger:

the joy from the team comes from a credible product, but I'm a bigger fan of the NFL than perhaps the Texans...so I do enjoy going to NFL games each Sunday either way. What I have lost most of my interest in is the draft in December. It used to be something to look forward to as a fan of an expansion franchise but this is no longer an expansion franchise. I'll get excited about the draft around the combine, but it doesn't matter who you draft if the team never ever wins more games than it loses in nearly a decade of drafting. Go ahead and enjoy the endless speculation, but I'll enjoy the games where teams are fighting for something. I enjoy the game, the strategy, the fight, and the intensity of the NFL playoffs and the games determining the last playoff slots without the Texans in the mix once again. I just can't get excited about the draft in week 14 of the NFL season since there are 8 weeks of football left. The draft will be there when April arrives.

beerlover
12-08-2009, 01:29 PM
I am after a guard to replace Studdard. I am assuming you watched the Alabama/Florida game? How did you evaluate Mike Johnson? SOme others have said he was bascially worthless, but I think he held his own.

He is a quality 3rd rd. prospect. Like Caldwell may take time to develop & Kubiak/Smith don't have that luxury this year. I think we need to focus on impact players who can immediately start & clear upgrades. With Texans draft slot higher than expected Kubiak/Smith need those first three picks to stand out like Cushing, no developmental picks early. Right now I really like Haden in first as the best option to upgrade CB/Dunta, then Gerhart in 2nd. to establish a legit running attack. Third round is tough to project it just depends who's left, remember thinking starter, I would be more inclined to hope that Justin Walton the very fine Center from Baylor is still available cause I think he would come in & start from day one :worldpeace:

rmartin65
12-08-2009, 02:16 PM
Did you get a chance to watch any of the games last Saturday? Haden and Ingram really impressed me and Mike Johnson G looked steady if not spectacular.

Yep, I watched the UC-Pitt game, the Florida-Bama game, and the UT-Nebraska game. Not all of each game of course, but a decent amount of each.

Haden was the 2nd best player playing on Saturday. He could start at corner for just about any team on day one.

Suh was THE best player on Saturday. The man is a monster, nough said.

Ingram looked ok. I really dont see what everyone loves about him. Good player, but I am not enamored. Plus he wont come out this year, so I have another season to scout him more closely.

Speaking of Ingram, it was Johnson that helped paved the way for him. Behind just an average line, Ingram is just an average back.

TexansSeminole
12-08-2009, 02:34 PM
Yep, I watched the UC-Pitt game, the Florida-Bama game, and the UT-Nebraska game. Not all of each game of course, but a decent amount of each.

Haden was the 2nd best player playing on Saturday. He could start at corner for just about any team on day one.

Suh was THE best player on Saturday. The man is a monster, nough said.

Ingram looked ok. I really dont see what everyone loves about him. Good player, but I am not enamored. Plus he wont come out this year, so I have another season to scout him more closely.

Speaking of Ingram, it was Johnson that helped paved the way for him. Behind just an average line, Ingram is just an average back.

Yards after contact, my friend. Ingram had like 80 yards after contact.

rmartin65
12-08-2009, 03:15 PM
Yards after contact, my friend. Ingram had like 80 yards after contact.

I love yards after contact, but for some reason I just wasnt seeing it. It could be my bad. I will pay more attention in the National Championship game, and the next season.

ArlingtonTexan
12-08-2009, 03:18 PM
Is this like not playing Christmas music until after Thanksgiving ?
I see it as identifying what you percieve the Texans needs . The players don't really matter at this point .

Just the same it is overall harmless and if someone enjoys it, the music or here the mock draft can be avoided for the most part.

Probably, too late, reading too many finals, and too many Jack and cokes, but I did enjoy ranting on the draft and I can now see where it looked more personal than I was thinking about while typing. I am still a draft nerd, just waiting a month or two longer to go into the same mode.

badboy
12-08-2009, 03:48 PM
the joy from the team comes from a credible product, but I'm a bigger fan of the NFL than perhaps the Texans...so I do enjoy going to NFL games each Sunday either way. What I have lost most of my interest in is the draft in December. It used to be something to look forward to as a fan of an expansion franchise but this is no longer an expansion franchise. I'll get excited about the draft around the combine, but it doesn't matter who you draft if the team never ever wins more games than it loses in nearly a decade of drafting. Go ahead and enjoy the endless speculation, but I'll enjoy the games where teams are fighting for something. I enjoy the game, the strategy, the fight, and the intensity of the NFL playoffs and the games determining the last playoff slots without the Texans in the mix once again. I just can't get excited about the draft in week 14 of the NFL season since there are 8 weeks of football left. The draft will be there when April arrives.I understand what you are saying Vinny, but I still get excited about comparing notes with others on MB. Reading two guys opinions that Mike Johnson was not a very good guard then focusing in on his game to see if I agree. When I did my final first round mock before the last draft, I did not think I would get any correct but I remember the thrill when Oakland took the WR I had mocked. Then I had Jenkins for Texans and everyone crushed me saying no way. He went #14. Cheap thrills but ...

badboy
12-08-2009, 03:58 PM
He is a quality 3rd rd. prospect. Like Caldwell may take time to develop & Kubiak/Smith don't have that luxury this year. I think we need to focus on impact players who can immediately start & clear upgrades. With Texans draft slot higher than expected Kubiak/Smith need those first three picks to stand out like Cushing, no developmental picks early. Right now I really like Haden in first as the best option to upgrade CB/Dunta, then Gerhart in 2nd. to establish a legit running attack. Third round is tough to project it just depends who's left, remember thinking starter, I would be more inclined to hope that Justin Walton the very fine Center from Baylor is still available cause I think he would come in & start from day one :worldpeace:I agree but was hoping to land a LG to upgrade Studdard and give QB and RB help. That is why I took Asamoah at #2but I too run into problems at #3. The only way I see getting my top needs are either going with a Dixon in 3rd after Haden and my LG or 1) Gerhart [a reach but guarantees me the back I want] 2) Asamoah 3) best coverage CB available and hope he is really good or Quin can be the starter.

badboy
12-08-2009, 04:06 PM
Yep, I watched the UC-Pitt game, the Florida-Bama game, and the UT-Nebraska game. Not all of each game of course, but a decent amount of each.

Haden was the 2nd best player playing on Saturday. He could start at corner for just about any team on day one.

Suh was THE best player on Saturday. The man is a monster, nough said.

Ingram looked ok. I really dont see what everyone loves about him. Good player, but I am not enamored. Plus he wont come out this year, so I have another season to scout him more closely.

Speaking of Ingram, it was Johnson that helped paved the way for him. Behind just an average line, Ingram is just an average back.I saw what you did & SUh was going against a good offensive line and a mobile QB. I don't think Ingram is an avg back but I hear you. I am really focusing on Haden at our first pick because I want DR gone. I do think If we could get Johnson in 3rd to block for Gerhart (2nd) and put Haden on other side of ball, it would be a very sweet draft. I think fast backs like Spiller may be the special for the day but Toby may end up a first.

badboy
12-10-2009, 11:47 AM
Anyone surprised that Gerhart made the five for the Heisman?

rmartin65
12-10-2009, 11:53 AM
I saw what you did & SUh was going against a good offensive line and a mobile QB. I don't think Ingram is an avg back but I hear you. I am really focusing on Haden at our first pick because I want DR gone. I do think If we could get Johnson in 3rd to block for Gerhart (2nd) and put Haden on other side of ball, it would be a very sweet draft. I think fast backs like Spiller may be the special for the day but Toby may end up a first.

Oh, I did not say Ingram was average. I just dont think he is the next great back. He will be good, but not great.

I love your draft, it would be sick as hell. If Haden is gone, I am thinking Iupati-Gerhart- and a corner. We would switch to a power run game.

Anyone surprised that Gerhart made the five for the Heisman?

Haha, nope.

badboy
12-11-2009, 09:00 AM
Oh, I did not say Ingram was average. I just dont think he is the next great back. He will be good, but not great.

I love your draft, it would be sick as hell. If Haden is gone, I am thinking Iupati-Gerhart- and a corner. We would switch to a power run game.



Haha, nope.I can not get a grip on this Kubiac thing. Radio talk shows seem to be running about 70-30 to fire him. If he leaves, you & I are on same page. I would probably panic and select Gerhart too early to avoid missing him. I am not usually a BPA guy but draft to fill need especially for priority. We have got to have a power back.

Matt McGuire for WalterFootball.com does two rounds:updated December 4th
Texans #17 Earl Thomas FS #49 (2nd) Jonathan Dwyer

Walt does three rounds:updated December 10th
Texans #13 Thomas F.S. #44 (2nd) Mike Iupati OG #74 Gerhart
I could live with that draft. I'd feel better with Thomas supporting Quin; but would like another CB. I have Kyle Wilson in 4th but many think he will be in 2nd round with Perrish Cox ahead of him. I am going to start looking for another CB in case.

rmartin65
12-11-2009, 09:48 AM
I can not get a grip on this Kubiac thing. Radio talk shows seem to be running about 70-30 to fire him. If he leaves, you & I are on same page. I would probably panic and select Gerhart too early to avoid missing him. I am not usually a BPA guy but draft to fill need especially for priority. We have got to have a power back.

Matt McGuire for WalterFootball.com does two rounds:updated December 4th
Texans #17 Earl Thomas FS #49 (2nd) Jonathan Dwyer

Walt does three rounds:updated December 10th
Texans #13 Thomas F.S. #44 (2nd) Mike Iupati OG #74 Gerhart
I could live with that draft. I'd feel better with Thomas supporting Quin; but would like another CB. I have Kyle Wilson in 4th but many think he will be in 2nd round with Perrish Cox ahead of him. I am going to start looking for another CB in case.

The thing is, you really cant take a guy to early, if you have him as the player you want. Everyone made fun of the Titans when they drafted Chris Johnson, saying they picked him too early, but look who is laughing now. Good teams dont let other teams opinions influence their draft.

As the Texans keep losing, it looks more likely the Texans will be in a position to draft Haden, and get Gerhart in the 2nd. I highly doubt Gerhart runs slow enough to drop him to the third, he is the best power back (maybe second best, but I bumped him over Dwyer) in the draft. The third round pick should probably be an interior lineman.

badboy
12-11-2009, 11:06 AM
The thing is, you really cant take a guy to early, if you have him as the player you want. Everyone made fun of the Titans when they drafted Chris Johnson, saying they picked him too early, but look who is laughing now. Good teams dont let other teams opinions influence their draft.

As the Texans keep losing, it looks more likely the Texans will be in a position to draft Haden, and get Gerhart in the 2nd. I highly doubt Gerhart runs slow enough to drop him to the third, he is the best power back (maybe second best, but I bumped him over Dwyer) in the draft. The third round pick should probably be an interior lineman.Good points. If you have a need and that guy is there pick him. To many worry about other saying he would have been there (later round). Maybe yes and maybe no. You are right on target about Chris Johnson and I think this philosophy may have impacted us not getting an Rb last draft. If we go to a power blocking O next year, I am not sure if Mike Johnson would start over Studdard or Brisiel if Caldwell moved to LG.

beerlover
12-11-2009, 01:35 PM
Maybe this offseason Rick Smith can get real proactive & trade players (Dunta Robinson, Amobi Okoye, Andre Davis, Xavier Adibi - you have to give up value to get value) then trade down if Hayden is off the board in first. This has been the Patriots style, the difference being they got too aggressive when still in contention while its clear the Texans have yet to be in contention.

Imagine a draft with a couple picks in every round, oh the things we could do :specnatz:

1st - CB/OL
2nd - RB/DL
3rd - OL/DB
4th - OLB/LB
5th - RB/WR
6th - PK/QB
7th - CB/P

JB
12-11-2009, 02:17 PM
Maybe this offseason Rick Smith can get real proactive & trade players (Dunta Robinson, Amobi Okoye, Andre Davis, Xavier Adibi - you have to give up value to get value) then trade down if Hayden is off the board in first. This has been the Patriots style, the difference being they got too aggressive when still in contention while its clear the Texans have yet to be in contention.

Imagine a draft with a couple picks in every round, oh the things we could do :specnatz:

1st - CB/OL
2nd - RB/DL
3rd - OL/DB
4th - OLB/LB
5th - RB/WR
6th - PK/QB
7th - CB/P


Yes... wouldn't it be loverly?!:turtle:

badboy
12-11-2009, 02:32 PM
Maybe this offseason Rick Smith can get real proactive & trade players (Dunta Robinson, Amobi Okoye, Andre Davis, Xavier Adibi - you have to give up value to get value) then trade down if Hayden is off the board in first. This has been the Patriots style, the difference being they got too aggressive when still in contention while its clear the Texans have yet to be in contention.

Imagine a draft with a couple picks in every round, oh the things we could do :specnatz:

1st - CB/OL
2nd - RB/DL
3rd - OL/DB
4th - OLB/LB
5th - RB/WR
6th - PK/QB
7th - CB/PI used to encourage this years ago until tired of being laughed off the board, I gave up. Why couldn't we have gotten at least a third for Dunta? I think the last trade up to get back into the first ended poorly and McNair issued a memorandum to knock it off. I would gladly take a 2nd for Jacoby Jones.

Vinny
12-11-2009, 03:01 PM
I used to encourage this years ago until tired of being laughed off the board, I gave up. Why couldn't we have gotten at least a third for Dunta? I think the last trade up to get back into the first ended poorly and McNair issued a memorandum to knock it off. I would gladly take a 2nd for Jacoby Jones.salary cap stuff mostly. In order to get a 3rd for Dunta you would have had to have him agree to a huge contract with his new team and he proved why he wasn't worth doing that this last season. Nobody would give up a 3rd with the player leaving for FA. Who in their right mind would give a 2nd for Jacoby (I don't start) Jones? You can get a dedicated kick returner on the second day of any draft.

beerlover
12-11-2009, 03:04 PM
salary cap stuff mostly. In order to get a 3rd for Dunta you would have had to have him agree to a huge contract with his new team and he proved why he wasn't worth doing that this last season. Nobody would give up a 3rd with the player leaving for FA. Who in their right mind would give a 2nd for Jacoby (I don't start) Jones? You can get a dedicated kick returner on the second day of any draft.

sometimes your such a debbie downer :scarygirl: J/K

Vinny
12-11-2009, 03:06 PM
sometimes your such a debbie downer :scarygirl: J/Kyeah, but that's why we have you here. Your good nature keeps this place hoppin' :barman:

badboy
12-11-2009, 03:12 PM
salary cap stuff mostly. In order to get a 3rd for Dunta you would have had to have him agree to a huge contract with his new team and he proved why he wasn't worth doing that this last season. Nobody would give up a 3rd with the player leaving for FA. Who in their right mind would give a 2nd for Jacoby (I don't start) Jones? You can get a dedicated kick returner on the second day of any draft.The trade I have discussed before was DR and others(Okoye, Okam & another I think) to Oakland for Aso and a nose tackle. Davis would get a younger CB for less $ and Okam to replace the aging NT and Okoye to add a possible lineman on the up. In that trade, DR would get most of his money and agree to the deal. Having said that, DR might be worth a 3rd to Raiders. JJ has shown recently to be more than a return guy. He has done well as a WR. What he can not do is get to work on time. And by the way didn't we give a 2nd for him? How many KR do have we had on this team who did little for us?

Goatcheese
12-11-2009, 03:19 PM
The trade I have discussed before was DR and others(Okoye, Okam & another I think) to Oakland for Aso and a nose tackle. Davis would get a younger CB for less $ and Okam to replace the aging NT and Okoye to add a possible lineman on the up. In that trade, DR would get most of his money and agree to the deal. Having said that, DR might be worth a 3rd to Raiders. JJ has shown recently to be more than a return guy. He has done well as a WR. What he can not do is get to work on time. And by the way didn't we give a 2nd for him? How many KR do have we had on this team who did little for us?

Rick Smith - Hey yo Al! I would like to trade you my pile of turds for your diamonds!

Al - Hey yo Rick! I know you crazy, and I'ma let you finish, but that would be the worst trade of all time!

Vinny
12-11-2009, 03:19 PM
salary cap still. Teams trading their players have to accelerate the cost of the contract bonus pay into the trade year.

No way the Raiders touch Dunta...they like elite speed and really, they have the best CB in the NFL right now. They don't need a slot CB for elite money.

Jones can't even get more time than David Anderson. You are way overvaluing your talent. Ok0ye has no trade value and 0kman has less.

Vinny
12-11-2009, 03:20 PM
Rick Smith - Hey yo Al! I would like to trade you my pile of turds for your diamonds!

Al - Hey yo Rick! I know you crazy, and I'ma let you finish, but that would be the worst trade of all time!

lol :spit:

badboy
12-11-2009, 03:24 PM
Rick Smith - Hey yo Al! I would like to trade you my pile of turds for your diamonds!

Al - Hey yo Rick! I know you crazy, and I'ma let you finish, but that would be the worst trade of all time!This was suggested after it was noted that Davis had said he had a small select group (unidentified) he would offer up for bid. Remember your "turds" are starting and /or playing a lot of plays.

Vinny
12-11-2009, 03:33 PM
This was suggested after it was noted that Davis had said he had a small select group (unidentified) he would offer up for bid. Remember your "turds" are starting and /or playing a lot of plays.
hence the 5-7 record

badboy
12-11-2009, 03:33 PM
salary cap still. Teams trading their players have to accelerate the cost of the contract bonus pay into the trade year.

No way the Raiders touch Dunta...they like elite speed and really, they have the best CB in the NFL right now. They don't need a slot CB for elite money.

Jones can't even get more time than David Anderson. You are way overvaluing your talent. Ok0ye has no trade value and 0kman has less.until JJ missed the meeting and told to stay home he was much more effective than Anderson. JJ had two TDs I think as a WR + his returns that Davis does not. You might like Davis better but I don't. Not arguing about DR versus Asomugha. The proposal I made was several weeks ago and the idea was set forth by a Raider fan that Davis was willing to cut loose almost anyone. As you recall back then the MB was roiling with pro cons on how good DR was.

Back to the point I agree that we might be able to trade some players for draft picks. Do you agree?

Vinny
12-11-2009, 03:36 PM
until JJ missed the meeting and told to stay home he was much more effective than Anderson. JJ had two TDs I think as a WR + his returns that Davis does not. You might like Davis better but I don't. Not arguing about DR versus Asomugha. The proposal I made was several weeks ago and the idea was set forth by a Raider fan that Davis was willing to cut loose almost anyone. As you recall back then the MB was roiling with pro cons on how good DR was.

Back to the point I agree that we might be able to trade some players for draft picks. Do you agree?
Neither Davis or JJ have any trade value, but obviously Al didn't have a garage sale and I'm sure if he did, he wouldn't trade for guys like Davis (not with a team when we signed him) when he could just sign a guy like him in the off season. Davis and JJ are just role players...return men. Neither have proven they can start in the league.

badboy
12-11-2009, 03:37 PM
hence the 5-7 recordReally? How many TDs has Dunta given up? Damn, I hate to be defending the guy. Okoye is part of a Dline that has greatly reduced the run. Don't start talking about whether he has been a bust, I am just talking about this season after Bush seemingly turned the D around. I don't know how much Okoye had to do with it but I don't remember many long runs against him. Maybe Jones in Jags game but I don't remember.

badboy
12-11-2009, 03:38 PM
Neither Davis or JJ have any trade value, but obviously Al didn't have a garage sale and I'm sure if he did, he wouldn't trade for guys like Davis (not with a team when we signed him) when he could just sign a guy like him in the off season. Davis and JJ are just role players...return men. Neither have proven they can start in the league.You don't have to be a starter to be worth a draft pick.

Vinny
12-11-2009, 03:49 PM
Really? How many TDs has Dunta given up? Damn, I hate to be defending the guy. Okoye is part of a Dline that has greatly reduced the run. Don't start talking about whether he has been a bust, I am just talking about this season after Bush seemingly turned the D around. I don't know how much Okoye had to do with it but I don't remember many long runs against him. Maybe Jones in Jags game but I don't remember.
you totally overvalue ok0ye. He has zero trade worth....if you get anything it would be a TJ like haul.

beerlover
12-11-2009, 03:49 PM
Rick Smith - Hey yo Al! I would like to trade you my pile of turds for your diamonds!

Al - Hey yo Rick! I know you crazy, and I'ma let you finish, but that would be the worst trade of all time!

speaking of "pile of turds" who was it that struck the deal which brought P-Burn to Houston & what about those turds we could have drafted instead? :chef:

In 05 Oakland used the 2nd (#47) in another trade. Dan Cody who the Texans picked up in free agency was selected #53.

Moats was selected by Philly one pick before Houston/Oakland in 3rd. #77 while Vernand Morency (pick aquired via Dallas for Drew Henson) left town for Wisconsin never to be heard from again after some short lived success.

don't know what I'm trying to say but in around about way Texans wound up with something similar despite the trade so you just never know :butterfly:

Vinny
12-11-2009, 03:50 PM
You don't have to be a starter to be worth a draft pick.
You sound like those kids who play madden all the time.

badboy
12-11-2009, 03:58 PM
You sound like those kids who play madden all the time.And you sound like a guy so down on his team, you exaggerate the negatives. And thanks for comparing me to a kid. I like that.:smiliedance:

Vinny
12-11-2009, 03:59 PM
And you sound like a guy so down on his team, you exaggerate the negatives. And thanks for comparing me to a kid. I like that.:smiliedance:
hey, if the shoe fits. :clown:

badboy
12-11-2009, 04:00 PM
hey, if the shoe fits. :clown:I try to go barefoot at work but the co-workers keep complaining.

LonerATO
12-11-2009, 04:12 PM
On a side note can anyone tell me what happened to most of Denvers O-line? I was trying to see who maybe the Texans could try and get off their squad, but almost every OL on there has only been on the team this year. I would also like to see what Brett Helms and Foster have to offer since Kubiak is getting another year.

Goatcheese
12-11-2009, 08:57 PM
Really? How many TDs has Dunta given up? Damn, I hate to be defending the guy.

3 TDs