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View Full Version : "Putting the team in a position to win"


Mr. White
12-03-2009, 02:12 PM
There seems to be a debate over what this means.

Kubiak "homers" say that he does it. Kubes "haters" say he doesn't.

What does this footballspeak mean to you? If you think he does, then feel free to explain. By the same token, feel free to explain if you think he doesn't.

Goatcheese
12-03-2009, 02:16 PM
His play calling has put the Texans in position to tie the game 4 times this season, and the players came up short.

Brown's fumble on the goal line
Schaub's overthrow on 3rd down
The lines failure to get any push on the following 4th down run
back to back Kris miss kicks.

Those are failures by the players to execute.

You could also argue that if he had come into those games with a better game plan they don't have to make those plays to tie. It could go either way.

eriadoc
12-03-2009, 02:22 PM
Sometimes he does. He makes good play calls and the players just screw it up. Most of the time when we've lost a game, it's been a direct result of a play by a player. Indirectly, Kubiak has often done something to lead to that situation, however. Like at the end of the first Indy game,there was a time out left with time enough to run one more play that might improve the odds of a successful FG. Instead of even trying to get a few yards, he directs Schaub to dive to the middle of the field to set up a 49-yd. FG. His clock management at the end of halves is terrible at times, and he forfeits opportunities to go after points.

HJam72
12-03-2009, 02:24 PM
At some point a HC has to be held accountable for too many players having epic failures at the most inopportune times. It's his team. He had a lot to do with choosing those players, he had even more to do with choosing their other coaches, and he is supposed to motivate them to succeed and put them in position to do it.

#1 thing I like about Kubiak is that he goes for it more often on 4th and 2 yds. or less than most HCs.

However, he forces the run when it ain't working, he forgets to run when it is, he calls QB rollouts with the QB rolling out in our own endzone, his clock management sucks, his replay flag throwing sux, etc....and, oh by the way, that going for it on 4 and 1 that I give him so much credit for would probably be more logical with a POWER running game.

Goatcheese
12-03-2009, 02:33 PM
Sometimes he does. He makes good play calls and the players just screw it up. Most of the time when we've lost a game, it's been a direct result of a play by a player. Indirectly, Kubiak has often done something to lead to that situation, however. Like at the end of the first Indy game,there was a time out left with time enough to run one more play that might improve the odds of a successful FG. Instead of even trying to get a few yards, he directs Schaub to dive to the middle of the field to set up a 49-yd. FG. His clock management at the end of halves is terrible at times, and he forfeits opportunities to go after points.

That was actually in the Tenn game where he centered the kick. He probably wanted to center it since Brown had missed just left to lose the Indy game from the left hash. Of course he went and shanked it wide left anyways.

eriadoc
12-03-2009, 02:36 PM
That was actually in the Tenn game where he centered the kick. He probably wanted to center it since Brown had missed just left to lose the Indy game from the left hash. Of course he went and shanked it wide left anyways.

Sorry, yeah that's the one I meant. It was a rather weak call.

Corrosion
12-03-2009, 02:39 PM
His play calling has put the Texans in position to tie the game 4 times this season, and the players came up short.

Brown's fumble on the goal line
Schaub's overthrow on 3rd down
The lines failure to get any push on the following 4th down run
back to back Kris miss kicks.

Those are failures by the players to execute.

You could also argue that if he had come into those games with a better game plan they don't have to make those plays to tie. It could go either way.

Jacksonville - fumble on the 1

Arizona - Fumble into the endzone - Arizona - Pick Six by Schaub

Dolts game 1 - Missed FG

Titans - 2 missed FG's

Dolts game 2 - 2 INT's by Schaub - one a pick six

All these games were winnable - all of them have one thing in common - player failure.

I'll go out on a limb here - IF Kubiak is fired - It wont matter of Scooby Doo coaches this team next season - he will look like a genius if they catch some breaks instead of having every important play go against them.

HoustonFrog
12-03-2009, 02:47 PM
To me it means that you have them prepared for what the other team is going to do and mentally have them focused. I think he has failed at times.

People are going to blame Chris Brown but who puts him in the game to be the goal line back?That's right, coach. Who keeps playing him now until another mistake happens?Coach.

Runner
12-03-2009, 02:56 PM
I'd like to see the team more often be in "a position to win" by building and maintaining a lead, and then protecting it to win.

Last minute drives to tie, setting up long field goals in the waning seconds, etc leaves the team vulnerable to a single player mistake costing the game. That may be a position to win, but living on the edge often means dying on the edge.

Double Barrel
12-03-2009, 03:20 PM
It's a niiiiiiiiice catch phrase, but the truth is, the coaching staff's lack of ability to make halftime adjustments that actually work (when they do adjust), the lack of audibles available to Schaub, and the unimaginative playcalling only puts them in position to be in a close game at the end. That is a world of difference from "putting the team in a position to win". JMO

Kubiak admits that the losses are HIS FAULT, so it does not matter beyond that. He is asking to be held accountable, and everything after that is just excuses why they FAIL.

buddyboy
12-03-2009, 03:23 PM
To me it means that you have them prepared for what the other team is going to do and mentally have them focused. I think he has failed at times.

People are going to blame Chris Brown but who puts him in the game to be the goal line back?That's right, coach. Who keeps playing him now until another mistake happens?Coach.

I don't have a problem with putting Chris Brown in, nor do I blame him for not being able to punch it in. He is not a goal line back, but he's the closest thing we have.

That was on the O-line not getting an inch of push.

HJam72
12-03-2009, 03:27 PM
It's a niiiiiiiiice catch phrase, but the truth is, the coaching staff's lack of ability to make halftime adjustments that actually work (when they do adjust), the lack of audibles available to Schaub, and the unimaginative playcalling only puts them in position to be in a close game at the end. That is a world of difference from "putting the team in a position to win". JMO

Kubiak admits that the losses are HIS FAULT, so it does not matter beyond that. He is asking to be held accountable, and everything after that is just excuses why they FAIL.

Glad to see somebody else saying this. Good post, too.

HJam72
12-03-2009, 03:29 PM
I don't have a problem with putting Chris Brown in, nor do I blame him for not being able to punch it in. He is not a goal line back, but he's the closest thing we have.


Probably Kubiak's fault.

That was on the O-line not getting an inch of push.

Bound to be Kubiak's fault.

Hervoyel
12-03-2009, 03:32 PM
I don't think that being "in a position to win" at the end of ballgames is really supposed to be the goal. I thought "winning" was the goal and if you beat the other team steadily for four quarters nobody questions whether or not you were "in a position to win" at the end.

It's a combination of things really though. Yes, all the things Goatcheese lists were indeed player snafu's and the argument is perfectly valid that Gary Kubiak doesn't fumble the ball, throw the interception, or miss the kick. The second part of that same (excellent) post though is where I feel like the rubber meets the road. This team appears geared toward playing to a damn tie most of the time and then living or dying by last second desperation drives.

I'm not angry that we lost a game on the final play of the final drive of a game. I'm angry because game after game comes down to the final play of the final drive. I'm angry because I'm tired of watching them shut down when they get 14-20 points up on other teams. This happens even in wins. Alex Smith didn't lose to the Texans, he just ran out of time. We pummeled the 49er's in the first half and then sleep walked through the second. We won the game but I was just as frustrated walking out of that one as I was leaving the Colts game this past week. The only difference between the two is that Peyton Manning doesn't need nearly as much time to come back and beat you as Alex Smith does.

This mentality, these mistakes, the sudden shifts from focused and dominant to "So, what are we doing after the game? BBQ sound good to you guys?" are on Gary Kubiak and his coaching staff in my opinion.

It's either that or the Texans have managed to draft every talented goof-off for the last three years. In that case it's Rick Smith and Gary Kubiak who went out and found all these ADD football players. I just can't accept that. I can't imagine a good coach would be incapable of getting these men ready to play and keeping them that way in an intense ballgame.

Corrosion
12-03-2009, 04:22 PM
To me it means that you have them prepared for what the other team is going to do and mentally have them focused. I think he has failed at times.

People are going to blame Chris Brown but who puts him in the game to be the goal line back?That's right, coach. Who keeps playing him now until another mistake happens?Coach.

When a player fumbles we are all bitching about him being held accountable .... Unless they need an excuse for a loss. Then we want him put back in even tho he has more fumbles than anyone in the NFL not named Matt Cassel. :rake:

Yes , some of Kubiaks calls are questionable but most of the Texans problems have been caused by the players themselves ...... and dont forget , the other team gets paid too.

Mr. White
12-03-2009, 04:27 PM
I guess the cliche means whatever what you want it to mean.

When Kris Brown lines up to kick a field goal nowadays, is that "putting the team in a position to win?"

houstonspartan
12-04-2009, 02:19 AM
This thread is dumb.

There is only one answer: 5-6.

Carr Bombed
12-04-2009, 03:01 AM
That pass play on 3rd and 1 last week (when they were ramming the ball down the Colts throats everytime they handed the ball off) was absolutely horrendous and one of the worst calls of the year.

THAT was not putting the team in the "best position to win"....it was another "I'm smarter than you" call, that Kubiak ended up looking like a dumbass on.....again. :rolleyes:

HoustonFrog
12-04-2009, 08:18 AM
When a player fumbles we are all bitching about him being held accountable .... Unless they need an excuse for a loss. Then we want him put back in even tho he has more fumbles than anyone in the NFL not named Matt Cassel. :rake:

Yes , some of Kubiaks calls are questionable but most of the Texans problems have been caused by the players themselves ...... and dont forget , the other team gets paid too.

Respectfully, I still stand by my thoughts. Look at the games now. Chris Brown is averaging 14 touches a game. He isn't fast and he isn't exactly moving piles. What happened to Moats?To me that is a coaching decision that I don't get. My point above is that players are molded by their coaches. Then they are situationally put into the game by coaches. So to take anything a player does out of a coaches hands makes no sense. Discipline, holding onto the ball, execution...all things that can be coached, taught and instilled. So when you see it happen once or twice you think the player has a problem. But when you see the same things over and over during a long period, then you know that they aren't being taught or coached up right. JMO.

HJam72
12-04-2009, 09:59 AM
Rumor is Moats isn't playing because he can't pass block.

HoustonFrog
12-04-2009, 10:46 AM
Rumor is Moats isn't playing because he can't pass block.

They won when he played though and it isn't like Schaub isn't getting hit with him out.

eriadoc
12-04-2009, 01:11 PM
Respectfully, I still stand by my thoughts. Look at the games now. Chris Brown is averaging 14 touches a game. He isn't fast and he isn't exactly moving piles. What happened to Moats?To me that is a coaching decision that I don't get. My point above is that players are molded by their coaches. Then they are situationally put into the game by coaches. So to take anything a player does out of a coaches hands makes no sense. Discipline, holding onto the ball, execution...all things that can be coached, taught and instilled. So when you see it happen once or twice you think the player has a problem. But when you see the same things over and over during a long period, then you know that they aren't being taught or coached up right. JMO.

I disagree slightly. What can the coach do to stop fumbling aside from the things that we all know Kubiak has done to Slaton? Bench him for good is about it, but when you have a guy like Slaton, and no one behind him really, you have to keep playing him and risk the fumbles. Kubiak has been telling Slaton how to carry the ball all season. It wasn't until Slaton sat on the bench for an entire game watching Moats carry the ball that he made a conscious effort to override his natural ball carrying style.

I think people pin too much on the coaches. There are plenty of things to go after Kubiak about, but the turnovers aren't really one of them, for the most part. This team doesn't have the depth to start benching people, and when Schaub throws a dumb INT (as opposed to the "stuff happens" category), what are you going to do? Eventually, you stop trusting him in key situations, and then you make ultra-conservative calls that come back to bite you. At some point, the players just have to stop making stupid mistakes.

Double Barrel
12-04-2009, 01:44 PM
Fumble drills for the RBs and more audibles for the QB to react to what the defense is showing on the field are two definite coaching strategies that seem to be lost on this staff. Although Slaton does appear to be protecting the ball better now, so they may have actually done something positive in that regard.

mootini
12-04-2009, 01:50 PM
Please run Chris Brown again at the goal line!:backsout:

Goatcheese
12-04-2009, 02:04 PM
Please run Chris Brown again at the goal line!:backsout:

We don't run the ball anymore. Schaub is going to drop back and throw it 50 times.

:bender:

HJam72
12-04-2009, 02:11 PM
We don't run the ball anymore. Schaub is going to drop back and throw it 50 times.

:bender:

We'll run against Jax all day, because it won't work.

silvrhand
12-04-2009, 02:39 PM
In my opinion, cause it's very hard to pull stats on this, history has shown in the NFL that some coaches even though they put their players in the right positions can't seem to get their players to be winners. It's the intangibles of team chemistry, everyone has labelled this team as soft and when it comes down to it the head coach sets the tempo/mood of his team.

And that reflects on us in the W/L column.

Runner
12-04-2009, 02:50 PM
We don't run the ball anymore. Schaub is going to drop back and throw it 50 times.

:bender:

We'll run against Jax all day, because it won't work.

Yeah, but they won't be expecting it.

Carr Bombed
12-06-2009, 04:36 PM
BUMP!


LMAO!!! Definition of NOT PUTTING YOUR TEAM IN THE BEST POSITION TO WIN.....Gary Kubiak and Chris Brown.

DerekLee1
12-06-2009, 04:38 PM
Fumble drills for the RBs and more audibles for the QB to react to what the defense is showing on the field are two definite coaching strategies that seem to be lost on this staff. Although Slaton does appear to be protecting the ball better now, so they may have actually done something positive in that regard.

MORE audibles?!? How about ANY audibles?

Wolf
12-06-2009, 04:42 PM
I am honestly tired of "putting the team in a position to JUST win"

I want use to be in a position to put our foot on the opponents throat, so to speak.

reminds me of going to college and just trying to get by and get a passing grade to graduate . It leaves no room for error.

Wolf
12-06-2009, 04:43 PM
MORE audibles?!? How about ANY audibles?

hell I would welcome the Texans to pull a manning and hurry up on offense after the defense makes a play on us and is in the middle of celebrating