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View Full Version : If This Team Doesn't Quit On Kubiak, Bring Him Back!


DexmanC
12-03-2009, 01:36 PM
I was just as pissed as everyone here Sunday afternoon, but I chose not
to open my bar of pink soap just yet. Hear me out. This team finished 8-8
over the last two season, but in a lot of their losses prior to this season,
they were blown off the field. This year, they seem like a team that's
fumbling for a winning formula, but have yet to strike 'Eureka!'

In spite of having a rookie OC, and a rookie DC, this team looks like
it has the ability to whip any team on their schedule. Before this season,
we were hoping they could just 'hang with' the big boys. This is the first
time they've proven to themselves they really could play with ANYBODY.

The next five games will show if they will fold under the adversity they're
facing, or if they will rise above it and BECOME the juggernaut they now
know they can be. The margin of victory in the NFL is VERY slight. Only
the teams that are good at the FINEST of details become elite. I'd rather
have Kubiak get another year to take the squad he's built to the next
level, rather than see a "Gruden Situation" where we get one year out
of what Kubes has put together, before it goes to shit with the new coach.

Capers was fired when the team quit on him. It has yet to happen to Kubiak.
Dick Jauron was fired because his team quit on him. It has yet to happen
to Kubiak. Putting 17 unanswered points up on the Colts TWICE in the
SAME season doesn't happen by mistake. I think they'll finish better than
8-8, but unless they start getting blowing out, bring Kubiak back. I'm
confident in Kubiak/Smith's ability to draft for their needs. They'll improve
the interiors of our offensive and defensive lines, and our team will go
from just 'good' to dominant.

Jim Mora's famous speech about "PLAYOFFS!??" was about a young
quarterback who threw four interceptions including a PICK-6. Mora
said his team played like "diddly poo" that day with FIVE turnovers.
"Don't talk to me about playoffs! I just hope we can win a GAME!!"

That young team became the class of the AFC, with their erratic quarterback
becoming the best to have ever played the game. His name is Peyton
Manning.

Just sayin...

Mr. White
12-03-2009, 01:38 PM
Funny that you bring up Jim Mora. They had to replace him to get to the playoffs.

GuerillaBlack
12-03-2009, 01:39 PM
Which is what we need to do, unless we finish 10-6.

nunusguy
12-03-2009, 01:47 PM
I dunno if that's enough ? Their final 2009 record is gonna count more than anything for his retension by McNair I'd think ?

Goatcheese
12-03-2009, 02:15 PM
I need to see 3 things for me to stay on Kubes bandwagon:

1. His players have to kill themselves for him, and fight every single play for the win. If they quit, he has to go.
2. They need to finish at least 8-8, and score more points than they give up for the first time in franchise history.
3. He has to force Bush to prepare for a running QB against the Jags. If we come out woefully unprepared for a running QB the way we have in the past I'm going to get mad. I mean plum mad dog mean.

Silver Oak
12-03-2009, 02:33 PM
3. He has to force Bush to prepare for a running QB against the Jags. If we come out woefully unprepared for a running QB the way we have in the past I'm going to get mad. I mean plum mad dog mean.

Garrard didn't really kill us with his running the last game, and really MJD didn't either...except for that one long run. :brickwall:

I haven't really stayed up with Jags football this season, so I don't really know what to expect from them. I would hope Joe Marciano has his guys ready for what seems to be the annual onside kick, or fake punt by Del Rio.

Texecutioner
12-03-2009, 02:37 PM
I was just as pissed as everyone here Sunday afternoon, but I chose not
to open my bar of pink soap just yet. Hear me out. This team finished 8-8
over the last two season, but in a lot of their losses prior to this season,
they were blown off the field. This year, they seem like a team that's
fumbling for a winning formula, but have yet to strike 'Eureka!'

In spite of having a rookie OC, and a rookie DC, this team looks like
it has the ability to whip any team on their schedule. Before this season,
we were hoping they could just 'hang with' the big boys. This is the first
time they've proven to themselves they really could play with ANYBODY.

The next five games will show if they will fold under the adversity they're
facing, or if they will rise above it and BECOME the juggernaut they now
know they can be. The margin of victory in the NFL is VERY slight. Only
the teams that are good at the FINEST of details become elite. I'd rather
have Kubiak get another year to take the squad he's built to the next
level, rather than see a "Gruden Situation" where we get one year out
of what Kubes has put together, before it goes to shit with the new coach.

Capers was fired when the team quit on him. It has yet to happen to Kubiak.
Dick Jauron was fired because his team quit on him. It has yet to happen
to Kubiak. Putting 17 unanswered points up on the Colts TWICE in the
SAME season doesn't happen by mistake. I think they'll finish better than
8-8, but unless they start getting blowing out, bring Kubiak back. I'm
confident in Kubiak/Smith's ability to draft for their needs. They'll improve
the interiors of our offensive and defensive lines, and our team will go
from just 'good' to dominant.

Jim Mora's famous speech about "PLAYOFFS!??" was about a young
quarterback who threw four interceptions including a PICK-6. Mora
said his team played like "diddly poo" that day with FIVE turnovers.
"Don't talk to me about playoffs! I just hope we can win a GAME!!"

That young team became the class of the AFC, with their erratic quarterback
becoming the best to have ever played the game. His name is Peyton
Manning.

Just sayin...

YOu been saying this stuff all season long. This message has gotten old. Kubes has failed his supporters. It doesn't matter whether his tam quits on him or not, he doesn't have a clue how to put them in position and is stubborn and doesn't know how to close games and this has been the case for over two years now. Nothing has changed, it's just the same mistakes. Kubes will be gone, and if he isn't the Texans will be set up for another disappointing season next year where a lot of fans stop caring and we'll eventually start having blackouts.

Goatcheese
12-03-2009, 02:44 PM
Garrard didn't really kill us with his running the last game, and really MJD didn't either...except for that one long run. :brickwall:

I haven't really stayed up with Jags football this season, so I don't really know what to expect from them. I would hope Joe Marciano has his guys ready for what seems to be the annual onside kick, or fake punt by Del Rio.

He rushed for a couple of first downs and a TD, like he does every time he faces the Texans, because we never defend his legs.

DexmanC
12-03-2009, 02:48 PM
YOu been saying this stuff all season long. This message has gotten old. Kubes has failed his supporters. It doesn't matter whether his tam quits on him or not, he doesn't have a clue how to put them in position and is stubborn and doesn't know how to close games and this has been the case for over two years now. Nothing has changed, it's just the same mistakes. Kubes will be gone, and if he isn't the Texans will be set up for another disappointing season next year where a lot of fans stop caring and we'll eventually start having blackouts.

Yes, I HAVE been saying this all season. This team is VERY close. They're
at the proverbial "fork in the road." It's the reason I started this post with
the word "IF." There are 5 games left, and they MUST go AT LEAST 4-1 to
maintain the support of this fanbase. The fans at Reliant Stadium have
a lot of sway when it comes to whether Bob makes a change or not.
I remember the constant booing of David Carr forcing his hand in 2006.
So, 5 games to go, and a lot still to play for.

HJam72
12-03-2009, 02:52 PM
I'm with you until we have 5 divisional losses (which could happen in 3 days) or 8 total losses. Then, I am all about pink, soapy avatars.

HJam72
12-03-2009, 02:55 PM
I know of at least one game where they quit on him, because it just happened last weekend. Of course, it would help if Kubone-head would run more than 5 times in the 2nd half when he has a lead on the Colts and a 5+ yd. rushing avg. in the game. Pft.

DexmanC
12-03-2009, 03:03 PM
I know of at least one game where they quit on him, because it just happened last weekend. Of course, it would help if Kubone-head would run more than 5 times in the 2nd half when he has a lead on the Colts and a 5+ yd. rushing avg. in the game. Pft.

I didn't see them quittin.' I saw them playing like dummies, but the
effort WAS there. That's what's so frustrating. They play hard, but
get a little stupid too often.

SICLICK
12-03-2009, 03:05 PM
Eff all that ...He has to go...Hes a horrible head coach.

BigBull17
12-03-2009, 03:09 PM
He rushed for a couple of first downs and a TD, like he does every time he faces the Texans, because we never defend his legs.

Hmm, sounds like a trend with running QB's in our division..

HJam72
12-03-2009, 03:09 PM
Eff all that ...He has to go...Hes a horrible head coach.

Now tell us what you really think, LOL. :ahhaha:

HJam72
12-03-2009, 03:12 PM
Hmm, sounds like a trend with running QB's in our division..

Yeah, that's because right after our DEs make a wide circle around and behind the QB, our DTs make a wide circle around and behind the QB. They think their the Inside Defensive Ends. :breakdance:

DexmanC
12-03-2009, 03:25 PM
Eff all that ...He has to go...Hes a horrible head coach.

This was your sixth post in two years of being a member here? You must
REALLY feel strongly about this.
:foottap:

HJam72
12-03-2009, 03:27 PM
This was your sixth post in two years of being a member here? You must
REALLY feel strongly about this.
:foottap:

I say we all give 'im rep. :)

markn
12-03-2009, 03:47 PM
I was just as pissed as everyone here Sunday afternoon, but I chose not
to open my bar of pink soap just yet. Hear me out. This team finished 8-8
over the last two season, but in a lot of their losses prior to this season,
they were blown off the field. This year, they seem like a team that's
fumbling for a winning formula, but have yet to strike 'Eureka!'

In spite of having a rookie OC, and a rookie DC, this team looks like
it has the ability to whip any team on their schedule. Before this season,
we were hoping they could just 'hang with' the big boys. This is the first
time they've proven to themselves they really could play with ANYBODY.

The next five games will show if they will fold under the adversity they're
facing, or if they will rise above it and BECOME the juggernaut they now
know they can be. The margin of victory in the NFL is VERY slight. Only
the teams that are good at the FINEST of details become elite. I'd rather
have Kubiak get another year to take the squad he's built to the next
level, rather than see a "Gruden Situation" where we get one year out
of what Kubes has put together, before it goes to shit with the new coach.

Capers was fired when the team quit on him. It has yet to happen to Kubiak.
Dick Jauron was fired because his team quit on him. It has yet to happen
to Kubiak. Putting 17 unanswered points up on the Colts TWICE in the
SAME season doesn't happen by mistake. I think they'll finish better than
8-8, but unless they start getting blowing out, bring Kubiak back. I'm
confident in Kubiak/Smith's ability to draft for their needs. They'll improve
the interiors of our offensive and defensive lines, and our team will go
from just 'good' to dominant.

Jim Mora's famous speech about "PLAYOFFS!??" was about a young
quarterback who threw four interceptions including a PICK-6. Mora
said his team played like "diddly poo" that day with FIVE turnovers.
"Don't talk to me about playoffs! I just hope we can win a GAME!!"

That young team became the class of the AFC, with their erratic quarterback
becoming the best to have ever played the game. His name is Peyton
Manning.

Just sayin...

I'm pretty much on the same side of the fence, however, the last part about mora/manning/playoffs is inaccurate. The colts reached the playoffs with Manning in a 10-6 season prior to that year.

That aside, I still feel Kubiak's Texans are so close to being a good team that we should persevere with him. If we limp across the finish line with a series of lame performances and another non-winning season, then it's time to go. 9-7 or better just about gives him another year for me. This is the youngest team in the NFL in terms of personel. The squad is mature enough for us to determine their talent level (good) but not mature enough yet for us to make definitive statements about their capacity to avoid implosions - mental strength if you like. Clearly that's sub-par at the moment, but there's plenty of growth opportunity in a group so young. I'd hate to rip things up right now because if this team does learn to win, then they're in a position to be successful for a sustained period.

HoustonFrog
12-03-2009, 03:56 PM
I didn't see them quittin.' I saw them playing like dummies, but the
effort WAS there. That's what's so frustrating. They play hard, but
get a little stupid too often.

That is called coaching. That is the problem.

Hookem Horns
12-03-2009, 03:56 PM
Funny that you bring up Jim Mora. They had to replace him to get to the playoffs.

LOL, that is what I was thinking. Bringing up Jim Mora is actually making a case to get rid of Kubiak and bring in a coach that can get them over the hump.

Silver Oak
12-03-2009, 04:04 PM
He rushed for a couple of first downs and a TD, like he does every time he faces the Texans, because we never defend his legs.

I know, but his td was a short run (under 10 yds right?), and his total rushing was under 50 yds. I can live with that...that close in the RZ, they're gonna get 6 a high percentage of the time anyways. I think we did worse against Garrard last season.

Texecutioner
12-03-2009, 04:12 PM
That is called coaching. That is the problem.

This right here. ^^^

When they're almost there and have the capabilities of being there, but can't stop making critical mistakes, then it's only common sense where the problem lies.

Double Barrel
12-03-2009, 04:41 PM
Good post, Dexman, and I can understand your perspective.

My concern is that Kubiak has Jack Pardee eyes right now. Sort of a dazed and confused look that he's not quite sure why things are going wrong and is slowly losing his grip. Perhaps I'm wrong, but he stares that the Denny's menu like Jack used to have that unplugged headset on.

TexCanada
12-03-2009, 07:09 PM
My biggest concern is that we play smart football the rest of the way. The penalties we take are stupid and are unbelievably frustrating. We take 3 or 4 false start penalties a game even when we are at home. This NEEDS to change. We need to cut out these stupid brain farts that give away yards for free.

As for game-planning against running QBs, I think the problem is that we just don't have a DT that can be very disruptive in the passing game. On almost every passing play, the field is so wide open in front of the QB that he can easily step up and relieve the pressure being applied by the DE's. From there they either have a much easier pass, or they have at least a 5 yard run with no defenders in sight.

This team needs to fix personnel issues at O-line and DT more-so than at coach. But if Kubes can't get this team to take less then 100 penalty yards per game, then he should be out the door too.

houstonspartan
12-03-2009, 10:13 PM
We can't win in the division, which means we are not winning the games we are supposed to win. Gary didn't win a challenge until THIS YEAR, his fourth. He doesn't know when to call a time out. He can't manage the clock worth s--t.

Should I keep going?

I used to LOVE me some Kubes, but this has gotten out of control.

Goldensilence
12-03-2009, 10:44 PM
My biggest concern is that we play smart football the rest of the way. The penalties we take are stupid and are unbelievably frustrating. We take 3 or 4 false start penalties a game even when we are at home. This NEEDS to change. We need to cut out these stupid brain farts that give away yards for free.

As for game-planning against running QBs, I think the problem is that we just don't have a DT that can be very disruptive in the passing game. On almost every passing play, the field is so wide open in front of the QB that he can easily step up and relieve the pressure being applied by the DE's. From there they either have a much easier pass, or they have at least a 5 yard run with no defenders in sight.

This team needs to fix personnel issues at O-line and DT more-so than at coach. But if Kubes can't get this team to take less then 100 penalty yards per game, then he should be out the door too.

Ok this is his 4th year. He has the orginal DC he wanted, thought it took him 3 years to realize Richard Smith was clueless. He's got the OL guru that built his line in Denver, and we're treading water with them.

Honestly, I'm tired of this. These are HIS guys up and down the lines and on the staff.

Andrew6
12-03-2009, 11:09 PM
I agree with Dex. Barring some horrible rest of the season, I say kube's stays. To bring in another coach right now or end of season is a bad idea. These guys have really built something special in a very short amount of time. They went from being a laughing stock to damn who is this team. They're improving in every facet of the game every year. Some quicker than others. I am going to wait out the rest of the season and see what happens before I start jumping on any fire kubiak and bring in the quivering chin band wagon.

GP
12-04-2009, 12:16 AM
I was just as pissed as everyone here Sunday afternoon, but I chose not
to open my bar of pink soap just yet. Hear me out. This team finished 8-8
over the last two season, but in a lot of their losses prior to this season,
they were blown off the field. This year, they seem like a team that's
fumbling for a winning formula, but have yet to strike 'Eureka!'

In spite of having a rookie OC, and a rookie DC, this team looks like
it has the ability to whip any team on their schedule. Before this season,
we were hoping they could just 'hang with' the big boys. This is the first
time they've proven to themselves they really could play with ANYBODY.

The next five games will show if they will fold under the adversity they're
facing, or if they will rise above it and BECOME the juggernaut they now
know they can be. The margin of victory in the NFL is VERY slight. Only
the teams that are good at the FINEST of details become elite. I'd rather
have Kubiak get another year to take the squad he's built to the next
level, rather than see a "Gruden Situation" where we get one year out
of what Kubes has put together, before it goes to shit with the new coach.

Capers was fired when the team quit on him. It has yet to happen to Kubiak.
Dick Jauron was fired because his team quit on him. It has yet to happen
to Kubiak. Putting 17 unanswered points up on the Colts TWICE in the
SAME season doesn't happen by mistake. I think they'll finish better than
8-8, but unless they start getting blowing out, bring Kubiak back. I'm
confident in Kubiak/Smith's ability to draft for their needs. They'll improve
the interiors of our offensive and defensive lines, and our team will go
from just 'good' to dominant.

Jim Mora's famous speech about "PLAYOFFS!??" was about a young
quarterback who threw four interceptions including a PICK-6. Mora
said his team played like "diddly poo" that day with FIVE turnovers.
"Don't talk to me about playoffs! I just hope we can win a GAME!!"

That young team became the class of the AFC, with their erratic quarterback
becoming the best to have ever played the game. His name is Peyton
Manning.

Just sayin...

I love your posts. But this....

This is...

You are outside your mind, Dex.

Go get me Peyton Manning's rickety old knees up in here and place him in a Texans jersey, and I'll buy what you're selling. Until then, you can't begin to place Matt "Come eat steaks at my house" Schaub in the same category.

Matt Schaub can NOT put Kubiak or any other team member on his back. He does not have game like Manning has game. Schaub's best day can't beat Manning's worst day. It's a deal of Manning being a cold-blooded killer. A guy who bitches at his offense when they're up 35-3 in the 4th quarter and have to punt at mid-field instead of driving down for another TD.

I support your enthusiasm. You've found a way to be positive.

But we just might need to play the Colts and Titans another 4 or 5 times under Kubiak for you to see what most of us here are saying: Gurry Kubiak is as done as a Christmas goose cooked in a crematory on New Year's Eve.

Texaninlild
12-04-2009, 12:49 AM
10-6 saves his job because McNair is a big softie like that. I must say after the last two weeks my eyes have begun to wander, looking for another coach to take us to the promise land. I would love to see our team turn into the piss and vinegar teams Cowher coached. I think Shanahan is much the same that we have. Chuckie might be interesting. I would actually hate to lose what Bush is working on.
Things we all think.

Defense:
A healthier and more talented secondary would be most helpful. Pollard was a diamond in the rough. Wilson was very solid until he joined the many on IR. We all salivate at a Grade A safety in the draft.

Offense:
We have said it all year, up the middle needs help on the line. The middle 3 make or break our running game. Right now we have 2 of the 3 on IR. Unfortunately it wasn't the one right up the middle.

In short we are all sick of coming up short. We watch games waiting for the other shoe to drop. No matter how sweet we might look, we find a way to lose. I think a change is in order. :fans:

Goldensilence
12-04-2009, 01:35 AM
10-6 saves his job because McNair is a big softie like that. I must say after the last two weeks my eyes have begun to wander, looking for another coach to take us to the promise land. I would love to see our team turn into the piss and vinegar teams Cowher coached. I think Shanahan is much the same that we have. Chuckie might be interesting. I would actually hate to lose what Bush is working on.
Things we all think.

Defense:
A healthier and more talented secondary would be most helpful. Pollard was a diamond in the rough. Wilson was very solid until he joined the many on IR. We all salivate at a Grade A safety in the draft.

Offense:
We have said it all year, up the middle needs help on the line. The middle 3 make or break our running game. Right now we have 2 of the 3 on IR. Unfortunately it wasn't the one right up the middle.

In short we are all sick of coming up short. We watch games waiting for the other shoe to drop. No matter how sweet we might look, we find a way to lose. I think a change is in order. :fans:

Chuckie ain't going to any team after extending his tenure for MNF. Overrated IMO, but that's just me.

We agree on Shanahan.

Defense: Under Kubiak they have never properly addressed Safety and it's killed the secondary. Wilson has been adequate. We got lucky as hell Pollard was cut by the Chefs, because Kubiak or Bush or whomever had the great idea that they could go through a season with Busing and Barber at SS.

I think Bush has done a decent job (Not sure how you can say with a straight face you'd hate to see Bush leave what he's working on), but I look over to N.O. and see how Greg Williams and Darren Sharper (who should get an MVP nod) have transformed the defense. I get sick to my stomach a little.

Offense: Hate to say it again but those are Kubiak's boys on the interior of the OL and I can't figure out for the life of me how we have Alex Gibbs and a turrible run game. I'm starting to think he Bob McNair'd Gibbs saying Myers, Brisiel and Studdard stay. On the flip side, instead of picking Shonn Greene in the second we get Connor Barwin. Awesome.

I'm starting to see why Lucky calls Kubiak Teflon man.

houstonspartan
12-04-2009, 02:39 AM
I love your posts. But this....

This is...

You are outside your mind, Dex.

Go get me Peyton Manning's rickety old knees up in here and place him in a Texans jersey, and I'll buy what you're selling. Until then, you can't begin to place Matt "Come eat steaks at my house" Schaub in the same category.

Matt Schaub can NOT put Kubiak or any other team member on his back. He does not have game like Manning has game. Schaub's best day can't beat Manning's worst day. It's a deal of Manning being a cold-blooded killer. A guy who bitches at his offense when they're up 35-3 in the 4th quarter and have to punt at mid-field instead of driving down for another TD.

I support your enthusiasm. You've found a way to be positive.

But we just might need to play the Colts and Titans another 4 or 5 times under Kubiak for you to see what most of us here are saying: Gurry Kubiak is as done as a Christmas goose cooked in a crematory on New Year's Eve.

Comparing Matt Schaub to Peyton Manning is ridiculus anyway. Stat-wise, sure, Matt is hanging in there, but in terms of experience and influence, there is no comparison.

Carr Bombed
12-04-2009, 02:41 AM
They went from being a laughing stock to damn who is this team?

Yeah, but the proplem is the home fans still don't even know who this team is. http://freesmileyface.net/smiley/Laughing/lol-030.gif (http://freesmileyface.net/Free-Laughing-Smileys.html)....and that's not a good thing.

4 years in and this team still has NO IDENTITY. The coach says he wants to run the ball, but can't and even in the few games that he can he drifts away from his own supposed "philosophy" and gets pass happy again, which tells me that HE doesn't even know the identity he wants for his own team. 4 years in and we have the most inconsistent football team in the entire country. That's nothing to be excited about.

So far Gary Kubiak is Norv Turner 2.0...whoopty do :rolleyes:

houstonspartan
12-04-2009, 03:14 AM
Chuckie ain't going to any team after extending his tenure for MNF. Overrated IMO, but that's just me.

We agree on Shanahan.

Defense: Under Kubiak they have never properly addressed Safety and it's killed the secondary. Wilson has been adequate. We got lucky as hell Pollard was cut by the Chefs, because Kubiak or Bush or whomever had the great idea that they could go through a season with Busing and Barber at SS.

I think Bush has done a decent job (Not sure how you can say with a straight face you'd hate to see Bush leave what he's working on), but I look over to N.O. and see how Greg Williams and Darren Sharper (who should get an MVP nod) have transformed the defense. I get sick to my stomach a little.

Offense: Hate to say it again but those are Kubiak's boys on the interior of the OL and I can't figure out for the life of me how we have Alex Gibbs and a turrible run game. I'm starting to think he Bob McNair'd Gibbs saying Myers, Brisiel and Studdard stay. On the flip side, instead of picking Shonn Greene in the second we get Connor Barwin. Awesome.

I'm starting to see why Lucky calls Kubiak Teflon man.

No, it's not just you. Gruden is easily the most overrated coach in the last 15 years. People like him because he's young and good looking and can scrunch up his face and make people laugh.

He's a fraud.

Corrosion
12-04-2009, 03:32 AM
LOL, that is what I was thinking. Bringing up Jim Mora is actually making a case to get rid of Kubiak and bring in a coach that can get them over the hump.

Mora's gone - and who's that other guy who won a superbowl - He's on ESPN now ? - with some no name lookin like a genius winning his first 11 games as a head coach ? with that other guy's team ....

Carr Bombed
12-04-2009, 03:47 AM
LMAO....

Gruden is NOT overrated, if anything he's underappreciated. If it wasn't for one of the worst calls in NFL history he would've most likely coached two seperate franchises to the Super bowl. (a fact ignorant people love to ignore when they just throw out the "he won with someone else's team" crap.) In 11 seasons as a head coach he only had 3 losing seasons and was the last man to ever have any prolonged success with that trainwreck of a franchise up in Oakland. He got fired after coaching a team to a 9-7 record (a mark that Kubiak has never reached as a head coach) and one year later that same team is now 1-10, one of the worst teams in the entire league, and certainly worse off without him.

Jon Gruden is a good head coach.......sorry folks. The "most overrated coach" of this decade was hands down, Herman Edwards.

krocket
12-04-2009, 04:30 AM
..... and they MUST go AT LEAST 4-1 to maintain the support of this fanbase. The fans at Reliant Stadium have a lot of sway when it comes to whether Bob makes a change or not. I remember the constant booing of David Carr forcing his hand in 2006. So, 5 games to go, and a lot still to play for.

Does the fans starting to walk out of the stadium in the 4th quarter count as losing the fanbase ? I think it has already happened. So, I guess we can stop right here and say Kubiak needs to go.

PHAROAH
12-04-2009, 08:04 AM
If Kubes can't turn it around then we should move forward without him because we are losing games that we should win no more excuses.

Goatcheese
12-04-2009, 09:11 AM
I think Bush has done a decent job (Not sure how you can say with a straight face you'd hate to see Bush leave what he's working on), but I look over to N.O. and see how Greg Williams and Darren Sharper (who should get an MVP nod) have transformed the defense. I get sick to my stomach a little.


Pretty much the only thing they do a lot better than the Texans is get interceptions, and that's more of a player issue.

Total
NO 16th
HOU 17th
Points/Game
NO 15th
HOU 18th
Passing
NO 18th
HOU 14th
Rushing
NO 20th
HOU 22nd

Comparing Matt Schaub to Peyton Manning is ridiculus anyway. Stat-wise, sure, Matt is hanging in there, but in terms of experience and influence, there is no comparison.

Comparing anyone to quite possibly the greatest QB to ever take the field is completely unfair. Especially not a 3rd year starter against a 12th year, multiple MVP, super bowl winning, Hall of Fame QB.

If Peyton Manning is the yard stick you have to exceed to be considered a good QB, every QB falls short.

HOU-TEX
12-04-2009, 11:04 AM
First let me say, I think Kubiak will likely be back next season. I've been supportive of Kubiak in the past, but my problem is this:

In Kubiaks first 3 seasons we've gone a combined 11-19 through the first 10 games of each season. We went a combined 11-7 in the final 6 games of each season. This season we went 5-5 through the first ten.

The point is, we don't win games that matter. We've won games when playoff aspirations have been extinguished and we're playing for draft position. This season we started the best we ever have, but began to lose when the games got bigger and meaningful. Now that the playoffs are almost out of reach they'll probably go on a winning spree.

Does the team play more relaxed when the game doesn't matter? Do they play to have fun when the playoffs are out of reach? I don't know, but it's Kubiaks job to find out why and get the team to play that way from September to January.

houstonspartan
12-04-2009, 11:36 AM
LMAO....

Gruden is NOT overrated, if anything he's underappreciated. If it wasn't for one of the worst calls in NFL history he would've most likely coached two seperate franchises to the Super bowl. (a fact ignorant people love to ignore when they just throw out the "he won with someone else's team" crap.) In 11 seasons as a head coach he only had 3 losing seasons and was the last man to ever have any prolonged success with that trainwreck of a franchise up in Oakland. He got fired after coaching a team to a 9-7 record (a mark that Kubiak has never reached as a head coach) and one year later that same team is now 1-10, one of the worst teams in the entire league, and certainly worse off without him.

Jon Gruden is a good head coach.......sorry folks. The "most overrated coach" of this decade was hands down, Herman Edwards.

I don't remember any hype surrounding Herm Edwards. He was a disaster. Everybody knows that.

Gruden is a joke, and if we hire him, I swear, I will not renew my season tickets. I've said that before, jokingly about other issues with this team, but Gruden is a JOKE.

He did nothing with with Tampa after that Super Bowl (and, yes, it WAS with someone else's team) and had 20 quarterbacks he couldnt' decide what to do with. The players HATED him. HATED. Why do you think he got fired? The owners wondered why the franchise was mired in medioctriy and checked with the players. Turns out the coach was an ass.

If Gruden comes, I go.

Period.

DexmanC
12-04-2009, 12:38 PM
Kubiak haters can't deny that we've had the best four drafts in team history
under his watch. Of all the players Kubiak got rid of when he took the team
over, how many of them remained in the league? I remember Antwan Peek,
David Carr, Travis Johnson, C.C. Brown, THAT'S IT!!! In his first two seasons, this team
had NO TALENT!!! The young talent he DRAFTED FOR are BARELY beginning
THEIR PRIMES! Last year, through the first ten, the Texans started 3-7. This
year, they started 5-5.

This is the first year, in Texans history, this team has had the ability to go
TOE-TO-TOE with ANYBODY. To blow this team up now, especially the
front office, would be the dumbest thing we could do. You get your new
coach, to lead us to one or two playoff seasons, but you bring in a GM who
thinks he's the smartest man on the planet and can't draft as well as Smithiak
has.

That is the "Gruden Syndrome" I mentioned. Keep this squad together for
another season. This team ain't going 8-8 in '09. From what I've seen,
they know what they are capable of, and are working hard to fix it. The
Steelers are only 1 game better than us, and they were SWEPT by the
BENGALS!!! THEY have ALSO lost 3-in-a-row, including a game to THE
FREAKING CHIEFS!!!

A little perspective here. We lost TWICE to the undefeated Colts, and once
to the undefeated "VY Titans." Mistakes happen with young teams. You
don't give them the death penalty midseason. Stand back, look at the big
picture, and consider our draft record. If we continue to draft well, winning
will be inevitable. You switch things up, you may spend more time at the
bottom of the NFL like the Browns, Chiefs, and Raiders, looking for the next
great talent evaluators. We have a young head coach, and a young GM,
and a young OC, and a young DC. Let them grow up a little bit.

SHEESH!!!

Goldensilence
12-04-2009, 12:46 PM
LMAO....

Gruden is NOT overrated, if anything he's underappreciated. If it wasn't for one of the worst calls in NFL history he would've most likely coached two seperate franchises to the Super bowl. (a fact ignorant people love to ignore when they just throw out the "he won with someone else's team" crap.) In 11 seasons as a head coach he only had 3 losing seasons and was the last man to ever have any prolonged success with that trainwreck of a franchise up in Oakland. He got fired after coaching a team to a 9-7 record (a mark that Kubiak has never reached as a head coach) and one year later that same team is now 1-10, one of the worst teams in the entire league, and certainly worse off without him.

Jon Gruden is a good head coach.......sorry folks. The "most overrated coach" of this decade was hands down, Herman Edwards.

Dunno if I would call it one of the worst...I'd call is quite possibly THE worst call.

I love how people want to point out how bad off Tampa is without Gruden without giving him credit for assemlbing the sqaud everyone is looking at. Gruden was collecting QBs in Tampa because he was looking for another Rcih Gannon, and it puzzled me that when he found someone similar in Jeff Garcia he couldn't commit.

Doesn't help that Tampa also inserted a rookie HC whom I don't think has even been a coordinator. Not to mention they lost Monte Kiffin to U Tenn.

Looking at the Drafts he had maybe it was just that his first round picks unexpectedly turned out to be busts.

houstonspartan
12-04-2009, 12:52 PM
Kubiak haters can't deny that we've had the best four drafts in team history
under his watch. Of all the players Kubiak got rid of when he took the team
over, how many of them remained in the league? I remember Antwan Peek,
David Carr, Travis Johnson, C.C. Brown, THAT'S IT!!! In his first two seasons, this team
had NO TALENT!!! The young talent he DRAFTED FOR are BARELY beginning
THEIR PRIMES! Last year, through the first ten, the Texans started 3-7. This
year, they started 5-5.

This is the first year, in Texans history, this team has had the ability to go
TOE-TO-TOE with ANYBODY. To blow this team up now, especially the
front office, would be the dumbest thing we could do. You get your new
coach, to lead us to one or two playoff seasons, but you bring in a GM who
thinks he's the smartest man on the planet and can't draft as well as Smithiak
has.

That is the "Gruden Syndrome" I mentioned. Keep this squad together for
another season. This team ain't going 8-8 in '09. From what I've seen,
they know what they are capable of, and are working hard to fix it. The
Steelers are only 1 game better than us, and they were SWEPT by the
BENGALS!!! THEY have ALSO lost 3-in-a-row, including a game to THE
FREAKING CHIEFS!!!

A little perspective here. We lost TWICE to the undefeated Colts, and once
to the undefeated "VY Titans." Mistakes happen with young teams. You
don't give them the death penalty midseason. Stand back, look at the big
picture, and consider our draft record. If we continue to draft well, winning
will be inevitable. You switch things up, you may spend more time at the
bottom of the NFL like the Browns, Chiefs, and Raiders, looking for the next
great talent evaluators. We have a young head coach, and a young GM,
and a young OC, and a young DC. Let them grow up a little bit.

SHEESH!!!

Dude, we see your point. Honestly.

But you're missing ours: We are 5-6.

We have massively - MASSIVELY - underachieved this year.

DexmanC
12-04-2009, 01:04 PM
Dude, we see your point. Honestly.

But you're missing ours: We are 5-6.

We have massively - MASSIVELY - underachieved this year.

I understand that, but you don't blow up the youngest starting squad
in the NFL over it. You see if they have what it takes to fight OUT
of it, first. They have too much going right for them, in spite of the
high expectations to start the season. 5-6 is bad, but it's still the best
start to any season in this franchise's history. They are improving, just
not at the rate we all thought. They still ain't the Raiders, Chief's or
Browns.

My mind may change at the end of the '09 season, but for now, I'd say
keep the team together for another year.

HOU-TEX
12-04-2009, 01:10 PM
Kubiak haters can't deny that we've had the best four drafts in team history
under his watch. Of all the players Kubiak got rid of when he took the team
over, how many of them remained in the league? I remember Antwan Peek,
David Carr, Travis Johnson, C.C. Brown, THAT'S IT!!! In his first two seasons, this team
had NO TALENT!!! The young talent he DRAFTED FOR are BARELY beginning
THEIR PRIMES! Last year, through the first ten, the Texans started 3-7. This
year, they started 5-5.

This is the first year, in Texans history, this team has had the ability to go
TOE-TO-TOE with ANYBODY. To blow this team up now, especially the
front office, would be the dumbest thing we could do. You get your new
coach, to lead us to one or two playoff seasons, but you bring in a GM who
thinks he's the smartest man on the planet and can't draft as well as Smithiak
has.

That is the "Gruden Syndrome" I mentioned. Keep this squad together for
another season. This team ain't going 8-8 in '09. From what I've seen,
they know what they are capable of, and are working hard to fix it. The
Steelers are only 1 game better than us, and they were SWEPT by the
BENGALS!!! THEY have ALSO lost 3-in-a-row, including a game to THE
FREAKING CHIEFS!!!

A little perspective here. We lost TWICE to the undefeated Colts, and once
to the undefeated "VY Titans." Mistakes happen with young teams. You
don't give them the death penalty midseason. Stand back, look at the big
picture, and consider our draft record. If we continue to draft well, winning
will be inevitable. You switch things up, you may spend more time at the
bottom of the NFL like the Browns, Chiefs, and Raiders, looking for the next
great talent evaluators. We have a young head coach, and a young GM,
and a young OC, and a young DC. Let them grow up a little bit.

SHEESH!!!

You keep speaking of all this talent that Kubiak has brought in, and if that is the case, it's more of a reflection of poor coaching. If Kubiak is bringing in all this talent each year, why is it not translating to the field?

DexmanC
12-04-2009, 01:14 PM
You keep speaking of all this talent that Kubiak has brought in, and if that is the case, it's more of a reflection of poor coaching. If Kubiak is bringing in all this talent each year, why is it not translating to the field?

This is a question better asked AFTER the completion of the '09 season. They
still have a shot at finishing 10-6. In case you've forgotten, we've lost
two starters on our interior o-line, AND the best tightend in the AFC.

No running game, no making teams pay for doubling Dre. Yet they are about
to go 6-6 on Sunday. They were 4-7 at this time last year, and are 5-6
now. So, to say improvement isn't translating to the field when they have
a shot to go 10-6 is inaccurate.

Goldensilence
12-04-2009, 01:30 PM
This is a question better asked AFTER the completion of the '09 season. They
still have a shot at finishing 10-6. In case you've forgotten, we've lost
two starters on our interior o-line, AND the best tightend in the AFC.

No running game, no making teams pay for doubling Dre. Yet they are about
to go 6-6 on Sunday. They were 4-7 at this time last year, and are 5-6
now. So, to say improvement isn't translating to the field when they have
a shot to go 10-6 is inaccurate.

Nice hyperbole. They still have a SHOT at 10-6 so theorhetically they can still improve!

For what it's worth the two starters we lost one was definitely good while the other...not so much, we were still stuck with the leftover choices that Kubiak decided to keep in the interior. I can't argue about losing OD, he was burning defenses bad when he got injured.

You know it sucks that this franchise started the way it did because some fans will have skewed views. People thought Sage Rosenfels was an alright QB mostly because the "best" they had seen prior to him was David Carr. Gray Kubiak looks like he can field a good squad because the "best" we've seen is Dom "Gap Mouthed" Capers. Rick Smith gets a free pass as a GM because of Charlie Casserly.

I'm not saying that Rick and Gary haven't composed a competitive roster, problem is we have to ask ourselves is it championship caliber? Honestly It's pieces away, but I don't have confidence they can identify those pieces.

I don't see how you can count us at 6-6 already. It's a meaningful game. Gary can't possibly have his team ready for it, it's his signature.

The other thing that bothers me Dex is your insistance that if we go with a different coach we're going to have to blow up the team. what makes you assume this is the case?

houstonspartan
12-04-2009, 01:33 PM
I understand that, but you don't blow up the youngest starting squad
in the NFL over it. You see if they have what it takes to fight OUT
of it, first. They have too much going right for them, in spite of the
high expectations to start the season. 5-6 is bad, but it's still the best
start to any season in this franchise's history. They are improving, just
not at the rate we all thought. They still ain't the Raiders, Chief's or
Browns.
My mind may change at the end of the '09 season, but for now, I'd say
keep the team together for another year.


I'm sick of hearing this. Houston isn't Bagdad, either, but that doesn't mean this city doesn't have problems with crime.

Geez. Enough with that argument.

houstonspartan
12-04-2009, 01:35 PM
This is a question better asked AFTER the completion of the '09 season. They
still have a shot at finishing 10-6. In case you've forgotten, we've lost
two starters on our interior o-line, AND the best tightend in the AFC.

No running game, no making teams pay for doubling Dre. Yet they are about
to go 6-6 on Sunday. They were 4-7 at this time last year, and are 5-6
now. So, to say improvement isn't translating to the field when they have
a shot to go 10-6 is inaccurate.

For the 200th time: We are not winning games that are important.

Do a Bart Simpson and write it on a blackboard 100 times: We are not winning games that are important.

10-6 would be nice, and, yes, it would be our first winning season. But - all together now - WE ARE NOT WINNING GAMES THAT ARE IMPORTANT.

HOU-TEX
12-04-2009, 01:35 PM
This is a question better asked AFTER the completion of the '09 season. They
still have a shot at finishing 10-6. In case you've forgotten, we've lost
two starters on our interior o-line, AND the best tightend in the AFC.

No running game, no making teams pay for doubling Dre. Yet they are about
to go 6-6 on Sunday. They were 4-7 at this time last year, and are 5-6
now. So, to say improvement isn't translating to the field when they have
a shot to go 10-6 is inaccurate.

A 1 game improvement from the previous year? Going by that logic we might have a shot at the playoffs in a couple years.

I'm sure we will go on a run similar to last season now that our playoff hope is basically over. If you're happy with winning games when they don't mean a darn, so be it. Talk to me when they win the big games that matter. Like the 2 Colts games and especially the titans game.

houstonspartan
12-04-2009, 01:37 PM
Also, your entire argument contradicts itself: Yes, we have the youngest team in the NFL. But, guess what? It's going to take an EXPERIENCED coach to motivate them to their full potential.

It's going to take an experienced, WINNING coach to get these young guys going.

DexmanC
12-04-2009, 02:23 PM
Also, your entire argument contradicts itself: Yes, we have the youngest team in the NFL. But, guess what? It's going to take an EXPERIENCED coach to motivate them to their full potential.

It's going to take an experienced, WINNING coach to get these young guys going.

... and our young coach is GAINING experience, and WILL start winning.
You guys keep screaming for Cowher, when the Steelers gave him a
5-year extension the year he went 6-10!!! Kubes is getting better, and
his best coaching years are ahead of him. I'd rather US get the benefit of
that, than hire a mercenary coach who only cares about his HUGE payday!!

houstonspartan
12-04-2009, 03:09 PM
... and our young coach is GAINING experience, and WILL start winning.
You guys keep screaming for Cowher, when the Steelers gave him a
5-year extension the year he went 6-10!!! Kubes is getting better, and
his best coaching years are ahead of him. I'd rather US get the benefit of
that, than hire a mercenary coach who only cares about his HUGE payday!!

I'm not clamoring for Cowher necessarily. I just think we should take a hard look at our head coach.

If Kubiak leaves and is successful elsewhere, good for him. Belecheck and Dungy were successful after they were fired.

You want to settle for average because you're afraid of the unknown. It's quite possible that another coach could take what Kubiak built and take it even further. But you're too afraid to even consider it.

You're a c student.
That's cool.
I'm not.

gary
12-04-2009, 06:59 PM
This back and fourth is quite absured. WINNING is all that matters and they aren't doing so. That is why Gary the HC to WIN not to just place his team on the verge of WINNIG but to just do it and quite frankly he hasn't done anything but FAIL at it. THAT'S ALL. I'm going to be honest here, I think this team is in danger of going 5-11 or 6-10. Most of the games remaining are agains teams who have something to play the Texans lose on Sunday and do NOT and piss off AJ even more by the way. No Steve for more than one game and might get UGLY as if they aren't already. They are now losing key players with five games left. Can you say MESS all around. I can. That is all this team is right now. The fact is before the began all of were saying playoffs or bust and a loss on Sunday and that would be true I am sick of it. We'll all be sitting here next offseason saying the samething once again. Every year it isn't anything but the same old crapola. This like say if the Texans lose the rest of their games by one point Gary should get to stay give me a break they still wouldn't be doing what they get PAID to do and that's WIN FOOTBALL GAMES bottom line. All this crap does not matter one bit but some has to give SOONER or later.

Maddict5
12-04-2009, 07:15 PM
You keep speaking of all this talent that Kubiak has brought in, and if that is the case, it's more of a reflection of poor coaching. If Kubiak is bringing in all this talent each year, why is it not translating to the field?

because we have the youngest team in the nfl and young teams in any sport, no matter how talented, are consistantly inconsistant

for the record, i think firing kubiak at this stage would be a huge mistake. for the past 3.5 years he's been building something really good that has constantly shown improvements on the field if not on the w-l column for above reason and imo hes not done yet. look at last sunday- crushing loss but look at how the newest wave affected the game- cushing with the int and overall beast, barwin getting to manning, mccain and quin made some nice plays. they're just going to keep improving and based on kubiak's history, more talented players will come in and as they start maturing we'll have a pretty special team in the next few years that should be able to compete year in and year out because of kubiak's dedication to building the team the right way

gary
12-04-2009, 07:25 PM
All that is keeping them from becoming a winning football team is a HC who controls the game clock better and cut down on silly mistakes to close out games.

DexmanC
12-04-2009, 08:07 PM
because we have the youngest team in the nfl and young teams in any sport, no matter how talented, are consistantly inconsistant

for the record, i think firing kubiak at this stage would be a huge mistake. for the past 3.5 years he's been building something really good that has constantly shown improvements on the field if not on the w-l column for above reason and imo hes not done yet. look at last sunday- crushing loss but look at how the newest wave affected the game- cushing with the int and overall beast, barwin getting to manning, mccain and quin made some nice plays. they're just going to keep improving and based on kubiak's history, more talented players will come in and as they start maturing we'll have a pretty special team in the next few years that should be able to compete year in and year out because of kubiak's dedication to building the team the right way

This simply where I stand. New Orleans endured over 30 years of SUCKITUDE,
before they've FINALLY achieved some model of recent success. You young
pups don't KNOW SUCKITUDE to the point of qualify as "LONG SUFFERING"

Pre Kubiak, this team played NOTHING like an NFL squad. It was the most
attrocious thing on television, to the point of EMBARRASSMENT.
This team has consistently improved, but the way they've been built
has forced them to go through trial-by-fire. Should we have signed a
"Brian Dawkins" in the offseason? Maybe. But we got a 4-year talented
player by the name of Bernard Pollard instead. I'm more interested in
how they finish their next 5 games.

Hey, the AFC South is the toughest division in football, and the AFC is
by far the best conference in the game. I went into the season with
tempered expectations, because although our starters are the youngest
in the NFL, our backups are EVEN YOUNGER!! It's not like Casserly/Capers
left Kubiak/Smith with a boatload of talent on their way out of the door.
Like it or not, this team didn't enter the season with the depth of a team
that's been around for 8 years, because the previous regime SUCKED ROYALLY
at drafting.

Face reality. This team ain't bad. This team ain't a juggernaut. It's an
average team on the verge. They have no where to go from here but up.
We don't have a knee-jerk owner. He's patient man, who's finally assembled
a young, talented staff. Mr. Mcnair will allow the group to gain experience.

You kneejerkers, and you know who you are, will be back.

HJam72
12-04-2009, 08:15 PM
Hurray! We are an average team for 4 years straight! Hurray for averageness!!! :fans::fans:

:pop:

gary
12-04-2009, 08:18 PM
It took NO thirty years to get good players and the corret HC for the job let's model our franchise after as we shall do the same that's the way to go.

HJam72
12-04-2009, 08:23 PM
It is awefully tough playing 6 games a year against the Colts, Titans, and Jags. :bender:

One day we'll probably dominate and the AFC South will be pathetic. That's when we'll lose the SB to the L.A. Lions or something.

DexmanC
12-04-2009, 08:25 PM
It took NO thirty years to get good players and the corret HC for the job let's model our franchise after as we shall do the same that's the way to go.

It's obvious you didn't read my post. I stated that the Texans struck
"talent-evaluating gold" with the Kubiak Smith regime. They took us
from ATTROCIOUS, and had to build the team, starters and depth alike,
over the 4 years they've been here. This team won't remain average
too long, and they haven't been attrocious since those two came here.

I was stating that our rate of improvement has been far greater than
that of New Orleans. Look at the track records of franchises that constantly
change their front offices like draws. Over the long haul, they stink. Once
you get a good group together, you leave them there. The way they are
now, is not they way they will ALWAYS be. They'll get better, as that's
what training does to you. You improve.

gary
12-04-2009, 08:37 PM
It is clear as the sun is bright that Gary must go one more season is not going to place the Texans over the hump is my point.

gary
12-04-2009, 08:44 PM
There are much more proven coaches out there who's track record does not even compare with Gary's even though Gary has only been at the helm for four seasons.

DexmanC
12-04-2009, 08:44 PM
It is clear as the sun is bright that Gary must go one more season is not going to place the Texans over the hump is my point.

The Texans weren't going to the playoffs unless they got extremely lucky
on the injury front. Most of our starters are Kubiak draftees, and ALL
of our backups are. We lost two-thirds of our interior o-line and our
yard-munching, touchdown-producing tightend. Not to mention our #2
wide receiver has been bothered with a bad hamstring all year. DEPTH,
my friend, DEPTH. This regime hasn't been around long enough to build it,
and they've proven they can draft well. Time is all they need. We ain't
5-11, 6-10, 2-14.

DexmanC
12-04-2009, 08:48 PM
There are much more proven coaches out there who's track record does not even compare with Gary's even though Gary has only been at the helm for four seasons.

Name some of those coaches, and I'll guarantee you they've had good front
office in place for more than 3 years.

gary
12-04-2009, 08:50 PM
The Texans weren't going to the playoffs unless they got extremely lucky
on the injury front. Most of our starters are Kubiak draftees, and ALL
of our backups are. We lost two-thirds of our interior o-line and our
yard-munching, touchdown-producing tightend. Not to mention our #2
wide receiver has been bothered with a bad hamstring all year. DEPTH,
my friend, DEPTH. This regime hasn't been around long enough to build it,
and they've proven they can draft well. Time is all they need. We ain't
5-11, 6-10, 2-14.You say all of this but they had the LEAD in at least three of these games probably even more and LOST every one of them.

DexmanC
12-04-2009, 08:53 PM
You say all of this but they had the LEAD in at least three of these games probably even more and LOST every one of them.

Proof positive of my central point. This team has GREATLY improved under
this regime. These were teams that BLEW THEM OFF THE FREAKING FIELD
routinely!!! Now, they are playing like a TALENTED, but YOUNG team!!
What do talented and young teams do? THEY MATURE!! You want to
burn the field before the sprouts can bloom! What botanist would do such
a thing??

Relax!

Goatcheese
12-04-2009, 08:54 PM
You say all of this but they had the LEAD in at least three of these games probably even more and LOST every one of them.

So you're saying they're a talented team that can beat anybody, including themselves? :texflag:

DexmanC
12-04-2009, 09:01 PM
So you're saying they're a talented team that can beat anybody, including themselves? :texflag:

Yes. That's what they do when they're young and inexperienced. You only
get experience from playing the games. I know this squad hasn't played
its best ball yet. They almost beat the Colts and Titans on barely a HALF
of play. Who can beat them when they finally learn to play a FULL GAME!!

Our baby is taking its first steps, people! Goochie goochie gooo!!!

lol.

gary
12-04-2009, 09:08 PM
Proof positive of my central point. This team has GREATLY improved under
this regime. These were teams that BLEW THEM OFF THE FREAKING FIELD
routinely!!! Now, they are playing like a TALENTED, but YOUNG team!!
What do talented and young teams do? THEY MATURE!! You want to
burn the field before the sprouts can bloom! What botanist would do such
a thing??

Relax!Many of those games were lost due to Gary being out freaking coached and using timeoutes at the wrong time. Just lack of control of the game overall. Ryan Moats, Chris Brown are young? A fumble should be dealt with but I'm sure they were but there are some players who are not that young along with KW and AJ even Matt. Those are vets and Matt should step up and be more of leader but they should be winning more of these tight games by now bottom line.

DexmanC
12-04-2009, 09:18 PM
Many of those games were lost due to Gary being out freaking coached and using timeoutes at the wrong time. Just lack of control of the game overall. Ryan Moats, Chris Brown are young? A fumble should be dealt with but I'm sure they were but there are some players who are not that young along with KW and AJ even Matt. Those are vets and Matt should step up and be more of leader but they should be winning more of these tight games by now bottom line.

None of those "vets" have ever won anything. They will struggle until it
"clicks." You can't become champions without going through a period
of struggle. That's where this team is now. Let's see if they have
the character to come out of it.

gary
12-04-2009, 09:26 PM
With a coach like Mike H. they probably would. Gary as head coach they players come out with their mind wondering elsewhere and then they get their heads back in game later on another HC would not contend with mess like that. I am done with this debate.

Texecutioner
12-04-2009, 09:46 PM
Proof positive of my central point. This team has GREATLY improved under
this regime.

Boy you post some false logic on the regular on this issue. What has this team improved on this year? Offense? Their running game has gotten far worse. The O line has gotten much worse than it was last season in run blocking and the RB's have not gotten better especially when the stubborn HC consistently plays a terrible RB in Brown even over a Moats who has played much better than him. Everyone acted like Gary Kubiak was going to turn the Texans into a running power house when he got here all because he came from Denver and brought in Gibbs, and we've had one good running season out FOUR. That's pathetic. And the guys that Gary brought in to become the work horses for the team were Amaan Green and Chris Brown. Slaton was only drafted with the thinking that he would be a 3rd down change of pace back. Kubes has been horrible at his decisions regarding our running game. It's been inexcusable.

Then there is the WR game that seemed to improve a ton early on in the season, and then in this 2nd half of this season has regressed once again and became very inconsistent.

And as far as record, the Texans had the same freaking record two years in a row at 8-8, and guys like you went on and on over last season trying to "spin" it as a much better 8-8 as if something like that can even really exist. It's a sad excuse to spin as improvement really.

The defense has been so up and down in the last 3 years. The D line still hasn't gotten any better. Mario has gotten worse this season, Okoye still sucks since last year and Antonio Smith has probably been our best D Lineman which is really sad.

Oh and once again, we're looking at another 8-8 season most likely and even if they go 9-7, that will be basically the same thing.

These were teams that BLEW THEM OFF THE FREAKING FIELD
routinely!!! Now, they are playing like a TALENTED, but YOUNG team!!

That could have won a few more games thus far if they would have had a better coach that knew which players to play at the right times of close games and would have made better management calls. You keep mentioning talent, but then somehow don't seem to understand that teams win with "talent." You're not supposed to keep under achieving if you still have talent.



What do talented and young teams do? THEY MATURE!! You want to
burn the field before the sprouts can bloom! What botanist would do such
a thing??

Relax!

You've been towing this line all season and talking about how many games we were going to win and how great of a coach Kubes was, and time and time again have been proven wrong about how he has turned this team around. He hasn't turned anything around. He's merely kept them average.

GP
12-04-2009, 09:53 PM
Dex:

A wise man once said: "When you find yourself in a deep hole, stop digging."

You're not going to rally the troops on this one.

Not gunna' happen.

gary
12-04-2009, 09:53 PM
Boy you post some false logic on the regular on this issue. What has this team improved on this year? Offense? Their running game has gotten far worse. The O line has gotten much worse than it was last season in run blocking and the RB's have not gotten better especially when the stubborn HC consistently plays a terrible RB in Brown even over a Moats who has played much better than him. Everyone acted like Gary Kubiak was going to turn the Texans into a running power house when he got here all because he came from Denver and brought in Gibbs, and we've had one good running season out FOUR. That's pathetic. And the guys that Gary brought in to become the work horses for the team were Amaan Green and Chris Brown. Slaton was only drafted with the thinking that he would be a 3rd down change of pace back. Kubes has been horrible at his decisions regarding our running game. It's been inexcusable.

Then there is the WR game that seemed to improve a ton early on in the season, and then in this 2nd half of this season has regressed once again and became very inconsistent.

And as far as record, the Texans had the same freaking record two years in a row at 8-8, and guys like you went on and on over last season trying to "spin" it as a much better 8-8 as if something like that can even really exist. It's a sad excuse to spin as improvement really.

The defense has been so up and down in the last 3 years. The D line still hasn't gotten any better. Mario has gotten worse this season, Okoye still sucks since last year and Antonio Smith has probably been our best D Lineman which is really sad.

Oh and once again, we're looking at another 8-8 season most likely and even if they go 9-7, that will be basically the same thing.



That could have won a few more games thus far if they would have had a better coach that knew which players to play at the right times of close games and would have made better management calls. You keep mentioning talent, but then somehow don't seem to understand that teams win with "talent." You're not supposed to keep under achieving if you still have talent.





You've been towing this line all season and talking about how many games we were going to win and how great of a coach Kubes was, and time and time again have been proven wrong about how he has turned this team around. he hasn't turned anything around. He's merely kept them average.I am done with him Tex he is ok with the Texans being .500 team so we shall allow him to have fun doing so.

DexmanC
12-04-2009, 11:19 PM
All that matters, is that Grandpa Bob agrees with me after his postseason
evaluation.

Carr Bombed
12-04-2009, 11:49 PM
All that matters, is that Grandpa Bob agrees with me after his postseason
evaluation.

And given "Grandpa Bob's" track record to date, that wouldn't be saying much.

Norg
12-05-2009, 12:15 AM
Its all about Wins and losses

THe team can love him all they want


but depending on what the record is at the end of the year will decided Kubes job mcnair already said

houstonspartan
12-05-2009, 12:43 AM
This simply where I stand. New Orleans endured over 30 years of SUCKITUDE,
before they've FINALLY achieved some model of recent success. You young
pups don't KNOW SUCKITUDE to the point of qualify as "LONG SUFFERING"

Pre Kubiak, this team played NOTHING like an NFL squad. It was the most
attrocious thing on television, to the point of EMBARRASSMENT.
This team has consistently improved, but the way they've been built
has forced them to go through trial-by-fire. Should we have signed a
"Brian Dawkins" in the offseason? Maybe. But we got a 4-year talented
player by the name of Bernard Pollard instead. I'm more interested in
how they finish their next 5 games.

Hey, the AFC South is the toughest division in football, and the AFC is
by far the best conference in the game. I went into the season with
tempered expectations, because although our starters are the youngest
in the NFL, our backups are EVEN YOUNGER!! It's not like Casserly/Capers
left Kubiak/Smith with a boatload of talent on their way out of the door.
Like it or not, this team didn't enter the season with the depth of a team
that's been around for 8 years, because the previous regime SUCKED ROYALLY
at drafting.

Face reality. This team ain't bad. This team ain't a juggernaut. It's an
average team on the verge. They have no where to go from here but up.
We don't have a knee-jerk owner. He's patient man, who's finally assembled
a young, talented staff. Mr. Mcnair will allow the group to gain experience.

You kneejerkers, and you know who you are, will be back.

BS. You have bad analogies. Earlier, you said we should be happy because we're not St. Louis, KC or Oakland. As if that was relevant. Who cares about those teams?

Now you're comparing us to New Orleans, which is even worse. Basically, you're saying that we have to wait 30 years for the Texans to improve. Bull-s---!!! The NFL is structured totally different than it was back then.

Dude, you like average and that's cool. But the rest of us don't.

houstonspartan
12-05-2009, 12:44 AM
All that matters, is that Grandpa Bob agrees with me after his postseason
evaluation.

LOL!

Are you a PSL holder?

I am. I pay the bills up in this mofo.

Grandpa Bob, as you call him, better listen to MY ass.

Trust me, PSL holders are not playing around this year.

steelbtexan
12-05-2009, 12:49 AM
Hey Dex 8 yrs of watching crappy football isn't knee jerk.

steelbtexan
12-05-2009, 12:51 AM
LOL!

Are you a PSL holder?

I am. I pay the bills up in this mofo.

Grandpa Bob, as you call him, better listen to MY ass.

Trust me, PSL holders are not playing around this year.

You're right

Schaub would call us fair wethered fans but after 8 yrs I have yet to see the fair weather.

DexmanC
12-05-2009, 03:18 AM
Hey Dex 8 yrs of watching crappy football isn't knee jerk.

You've watched FOUR years of crappy ball.

And 3+ years of exciting, yet sometimes disappointing ball.

Get it right!

:splits:

DexmanC
12-05-2009, 03:42 AM
Hey Kubes. What about these PSL holders who think you've done NOTHING
to take this team past the Capers era?

http://i45.tinypic.com/116p6o9.jpg

I agree, Kubes. I agree.

houstonspartan
12-05-2009, 03:44 AM
Hey Kubes. What about these PSL holders who think you've done NOTHING
to take this team past the Capers era?

http://i45.tinypic.com/116p6o9.jpg

I agree, Kubes. I agree.

You're full of crap. I never said he's done nothing for us. I'm saying he's taken us as far as he could.

In your words: "Get it right!"

houstonspartan
12-05-2009, 03:48 AM
And: PSL holders are the LAST fans Kubes would flip off.

He knows who breads his butter.

Carr Bombed
12-05-2009, 04:43 AM
And 3+ years of exciting, yet sometimes disappointing ball.

Get it right!

:splits:

3+ years of heartbreaking football full of emotional letdowns, but whatever. If barely losing, but still losing is exciting to you whatever.


So far like I said ealier....Kubiak has been nothing but Norv Turner 2.0 (though even Norv Turner has done a better coaching job over the last 2 1/2 seasons).

Goatcheese
12-05-2009, 06:49 AM
3+ years of heartbreaking football full of emotional letdowns, but whatever. If barely losing, but still losing is exciting to you whatever.


So far like I said ealier....Kubiak has been nothing but Norv Turner 2.0 (though even Norv Turner has done a better coaching job over the last 2 1/2 seasons).

Norv turner took over the most talented team in the NFL, and has taken them backwards.

Kubiak took over the least talented team in the NFL. Absolute dead last, with a whole 3 players he felt worthy of keeping on the roster, and a horrible salary cap situation. He had to find 20 new starters, plus a punter and depth in 4 off seasons. 4 years is simply not enough time to replace 50 players with quality NFL talent. You're asking him to add 7-8 quality backups, and 5 NFL caliber starters every year.

Nobody can do that. 2006 was one of the best offseasons that any team has had in recent history, and it only netted us 5 NFL level starters. DeMeco Ryans, Mario Williams, Eric Winston, Owen Daniels and Kevin Walter. You can't reasonably expect them to bring in that kind of haul every year.

Add in that he's lost an All Pro TE, fringe Pro Bowl LG, and his starters at RG and FS to injury and it only gets harder.

Despite that mountain he's had to climb, this team has shown clear improvement this season over past years. They have only been 'beaten' once in 11 games. Every other game was competitive and exciting, with a chance for them to pull out a win. They've scored more points than they've surrendered for the first time in franchise history. The defense is no longer the worst in NFL history. The offense has been good despite the running game struggling this year; a problem you can realistically expect to be solved given this coaching staff's past success.

Personally I'm 50/50 on Kubes. He has been brilliant at times, and left me full on double facepalm at others. I think he's improved the team every year, and at this point, should get the final year of his contract to see if he can finish the 5 year plan. Maybe I'm being too patient, but I think a rookie head coach starting a team basically with AJ, and Pitts can't be expected to be a serious playoff contender(especially in the AFC South) after 4 years.

McNair understands the enormity of the task Kubiak has undertaken, and I can't see him throwing him under the bus without a serious collapse, and loss of confidence from the players.

Grams
12-05-2009, 09:28 AM
Norv turner took over the most talented team in the NFL, and has taken them backwards.

Kubiak took over the least talented team in the NFL. Absolute dead last, with a whole 3 players he felt worthy of keeping on the roster, and a horrible salary cap situation. He had to find 20 new starters, plus a punter and depth in 4 off seasons. 4 years is simply not enough time to replace 50 players with quality NFL talent. You're asking him to add 7-8 quality backups, and 5 NFL caliber starters every year.

Nobody can do that. 2006 was one of the best offseasons that any team has had in recent history, and it only netted us 5 NFL level starters. DeMeco Ryans, Mario Williams, Eric Winston, Owen Daniels and Kevin Walter. You can't reasonably expect them to bring in that kind of haul every year.

Add in that he's lost an All Pro TE, fringe Pro Bowl LG, and his starters at RG and FS to injury and it only gets harder.

Despite that mountain he's had to climb, this team has shown clear improvement this season over past years. They have only been 'beaten' once in 11 games. Every other game was competitive and exciting, with a chance for them to pull out a win. They've scored more points than they've surrendered for the first time in franchise history. The defense is no longer the worst in NFL history. The offense has been good despite the running game struggling this year; a problem you can realistically expect to be solved given this coaching staff's past success.

Personally I'm 50/50 on Kubes. He has been brilliant at times, and left me full on double facepalm at others. I think he's improved the team every year, and at this point, should get the final year of his contract to see if he can finish the 5 year plan. Maybe I'm being too patient, but I think a rookie head coach starting a team basically with AJ, and Pitts can't be expected to be a serious playoff contender(especially in the AFC South) after 4 years.

McNair understands the enormity of the task Kubiak has undertaken, and I can't see him throwing him under the bus without a serious collapse, and loss of confidence from the players.

I think you are correct - we have come a long way from where we were. I have seen improvement every year. Each year we get closer and closer and pick up more pieces of the puzzle. We are still missing a few pieces. Which ones exactly I do not know. But we have not gotten back into salary-cap hell.

Some teams are only a few players away when they change coaches so the change is fast. We were a whole team away and it has taken longer. A lot longer than what most fans want and expect.

I think most fans expected this year to be the year. We have been closer and a lot more competitive. But we seem to play half of the game really well and have brain farts the other half - by both coaches and players. And some really horrible penalties that were not penalties thrown in on top of that.

I do not want to see a new coach come in and start over again. Change the defense/offense and wait another couple of years to get the right personnel for their scheme. But I am beginning to have some doubts that Kubiak can get more out of the players than he has already.

HJam72
12-05-2009, 09:45 AM
Honestly, after 4 seasons with him as HC, I'm more prone to believe that Kubiak has an excellent influence on draft selection than that he is actually a good coach. Casserly was horrible and yet we have the 2006 draft with Kubiak and Casserly. Every draft since Kubiak came to the Texans seems to have been better than before. Maybe we should Fire Smith, promote Kubiak to GM, and hire a new HC, LOL.

DexmanC
12-05-2009, 11:49 AM
3+ years of heartbreaking football full of emotional letdowns, but whatever. If barely losing, but still losing is exciting to you whatever.


So far like I said ealier....Kubiak has been nothing but Norv Turner 2.0 (though even Norv Turner has done a better coaching job over the last 2 1/2 seasons).

In previous years, we'd know they'd lost it at kickoff! So, that's an
improvement. The fact we could lose Chester Pitts, Owen Daniels, AND
Eugene Wilson, and still have the ability to beat the Colts, shows a marked
improvement in our depth. The fact still remains this team wasn't going
far without its starters being healthy for the whole season. We just aren't
yet deep enough. We've only had a good front office in place for less than
four years,and Kubiak is a HUGE part of it.

gary
12-05-2009, 11:50 AM
Maybe the third time is the charm for Grampa Bob because the first two were not.

houstonspartan
12-05-2009, 01:16 PM
In previous years, we'd know they'd lost it at kickoff! So, that's an
improvement. The fact we could lose Chester Pitts, Owen Daniels, AND
Eugene Wilson, and still have the ability to beat the Colts, shows a marked
improvement in our depth. The fact still remains this team wasn't going
far without its starters being healthy for the whole season. We just aren't
yet deep enough. We've only had a good front office in place for less than
four years,and Kubiak is a HUGE part of it.

So where are the W's, genius?

datchapin
12-05-2009, 02:03 PM
I don't get it. The main argument for keeping Kubiak is that he's assembled a good squad.

That doesn't have anything to do with the coaching aspect. He's still making the same mistakes he was making his rookie yr. here. The challenge flag he threw during the Colts game was ridicolous. He's always getting away from the running game this yr. He rarely has his guys ready to play. Yes, talents been brought in, but the question is can he coach well enough to keep that talent here. Demeco and Owen saw other players get contracts during the yr. Our FO isn't doing anything until after the season. At that time there's no guarantee that they'll want to stay here. Kubiak hasn't shown hes got what it takes.

DexmanC
12-05-2009, 03:24 PM
So where are the W's, genius?

Ask this question at the conclusion of the '09 season.
Next question.

Texecutioner
12-05-2009, 03:29 PM
Ask this question at the conclusion of the '09 season.
Next question.

You would be perfect as a Lions fan with your low expectations and comfort with mediocraty.

DexmanC
12-05-2009, 03:33 PM
I don't get it. The main argument for keeping Kubiak is that he's assembled a good squad.

That doesn't have anything to do with the coaching aspect. He's still making the same mistakes he was making his rookie yr. here. The challenge flag he threw during the Colts game was ridicolous. He's always getting away from the running game this yr. He rarely has his guys ready to play. Yes, talents been brought in, but the question is can he coach well enough to keep that talent here. Demeco and Owen saw other players get contracts during the yr. Our FO isn't doing anything until after the season. At that time there's no guarantee that they'll want to stay here. Kubiak hasn't shown hes got what it takes.

He lost 2/3 of the INTERIOR of the offensive line. Where's the running game?
The offense is predicated on playaction, and we can't run. STILL, the
team remains competitive in spite of losing so much of our o-line. Teams
that lose offensive linemen left and right struggle. This is the first season
in which we've been bit by the injury bug, and still were not blown off
the field.

You also need a little luck to win. The Texans have got NO BREAKS all
year! The margin for error is SMALL in the NFL. EVERY team makes mistakes,
and this team's a lucky bounce or two away from a couple more wins. Yeah,
it sucks, but you don't blow up the whole team over it. You take the team,
and the circumstances they've faced, in its entirety. Whether you like it
or not, this is a good team. Both on the field, and in the front office. It
will be a lot clearer once you've backed off the ledge, and the '09 season
has ended.

Calling for the destruction of this team is WAYYYY premature. Sit back,
grab a pizza, and root for your team on Sunday. Jacksonville is in the same
boat as us, yet THEIR home fans will be blacked out. When you want to
talk about "8 years," LEAVE KUBIAK OUT OF IT. We've had the best
3+ years under his regime, and they have NOT topped out yet!

houstonspartan
12-05-2009, 03:34 PM
You would be perfect as a Lions fan with your low expectations and comfort with mediocraty.

That's funny, because I grew up in Michigan and this was the exact same attitude among Lions fans growing up. Every single year it was the same thing: Maybe next year. Maybe next year.

The result?

0-16.

Goldensilence
12-05-2009, 04:36 PM
I think you are correct - we have come a long way from where we were. I have seen improvement every year. Each year we get closer and closer and pick up more pieces of the puzzle. We are still missing a few pieces. Which ones exactly I do not know. But we have not gotten back into salary-cap hell.

Some teams are only a few players away when they change coaches so the change is fast. We were a whole team away and it has taken longer. A lot longer than what most fans want and expect.

I think most fans expected this year to be the year. We have been closer and a lot more competitive. But we seem to play half of the game really well and have brain farts the other half - by both coaches and players. And some really horrible penalties that were not penalties thrown in on top of that.

I do not want to see a new coach come in and start over again. Change the defense/offense and wait another couple of years to get the right personnel for their scheme. But I am beginning to have some doubts that Kubiak can get more out of the players than he has already.

First bolded part. This is what bothers me. Most fans on this board can point out those pieces, yet the staff can't seem to identify them. Kubiak's personnel decision making is just about like the team record the past two years .500.

Yet to full on address RB unless you want to point to Ahman Green and Chris Brown. I think Slaton was a bit like DD in the sense he was originally drafted as a third down back and had to turn into more because lack of talent at the spot. Had a good chance to pick up Shonn Greene in the second round this year or LeSean McCoy. Not saying either is all-world at this point but both would've been a clear upgrade to our RB depth chart, instead we get Connor Barwin. Also missed out on Jennings in 7th.

This team has yet to show an interest in the safety position especially FS. Look I dunno about you but, thinking we could run Barber and Busing out as our starting SS and be ok is outright stupid. We got lucky that KC was dumb enough to cut their leading tackler last year so we could wait two games into the season to sign Pollard.

The interior of the OL is all Kubiak's guys, with the exception of Pitts. Max Unger of Andy Levitre would've made excellent choices in the second as well to shore that spot up. To be honest I'm a bit puzzled about Caldwell, they picked him and I thought he had al lthe right tools, but the OL staff seems to think he's not right for what they're looking for yet. To me looks like there was a disconnect somewhere with scouting.

The staff has still yet to figure out what to do with DT. I think we had hopes for Okam but, it's seeming to fade fast. Could've had a shot at old Grady Jackson (who signed with Detroit) ironically we took another Detroit DT in Cody.

Second bolded part. Look, I'm tired of the insinuation that if we fire Kubiak we have to go in and implode the squad. There's plenty of WC offense style coaches and coordinators. Defensively we aren't that bad off on making a switch of a 3-4 I think. Not sure how I'd feel about it but it wouldn't be the terrible ordeal I think people are making it out to be. We've got the best depth on defense at LB and Williams Smith would make good 3-4 DEs. Just have to find a cheeseburger gobbling NT.

IF Bob decided to make the change at HC, which I hope he does, I don't believe that we'd have to remake the entire team. Ya'll keep saying that this team isn't far away, but have it in your head making a change at coach would be a monumental step backwards. Sadly I think that's probably the best argument Kubiak supporters have. A straw-man.

GP
12-05-2009, 05:34 PM
Hey Kubes. What about these PSL holders who think you've done NOTHING
to take this team past the Capers era?

http://i45.tinypic.com/116p6o9.jpg

I agree, Kubes. I agree.

This is the perfect gif animation that portrays Kubiak's season(s):

Railing against a ref's call, and unable to make his own luck.

An inability to get the team over the hump, or past the ref's calls.

Frustration.

Misplaced anger.

Suckage.

HJam72
12-05-2009, 05:42 PM
This is the perfect gif animation that portrays Kubiak's season(s):

Railing against a ref's call, and unable to make his own luck.

An inability to get the team over the hump, or past the ref's calls.

Frustration.

Misplaced anger.

Suckage.

Wow, man, that's really deep.

I just thought it was cool cuz he cussed on TV. :photos:

Runner
12-05-2009, 08:00 PM
I don't get it. The main argument for keeping Kubiak is that he's assembled a good squad.


Unless you are reading the argument that he doesn't win because the players aren't good enough. Or old enough. Or vocal enough. Or smart enough.

datchapin
12-05-2009, 08:05 PM
He lost 2/3 of the INTERIOR of the offensive line. Where's the running game?
The offense is predicated on playaction, and we can't run. STILL, the
team remains competitive in spite of losing so much of our o-line. Teams
that lose offensive linemen left and right struggle. This is the first season
in which we've been bit by the injury bug, and still were not blown off
the field.

You also need a little luck to win. The Texans have got NO BREAKS all
year! The margin for error is SMALL in the NFL. EVERY team makes mistakes,
and this team's a lucky bounce or two away from a couple more wins. Yeah,
it sucks, but you don't blow up the whole team over it. You take the team,
and the circumstances they've faced, in its entirety. Whether you like it
or not, this is a good team. Both on the field, and in the front office. It
will be a lot clearer once you've backed off the ledge, and the '09 season
has ended.

Calling for the destruction of this team is WAYYYY premature. Sit back,
grab a pizza, and root for your team on Sunday. Jacksonville is in the same
boat as us, yet THEIR home fans will be blacked out. When you want to
talk about "8 years," LEAVE KUBIAK OUT OF IT. We've had the best
3+ years under his regime, and they have NOT topped out yet!

Look, I'm not sure how this is responding to my post. I didn't say anything about the running game or injuries. I was pointing out that Kubiak gets away from it too much. Against the Colts we were having a good rushing performance and then in the second half we hardly ran it. Throughout his time here Kubiak has admitted as much, but continues to get away from it. This in spite of how important he stresses it is.

Yeah, luck has alot to do with it. However successful clock and time out management as well as choosing when to challenge also have alot to do with it. Our first game against the Colts we got screwed on the call at the two minute warning. However most teams try pulling off the play before the warning. We didn't that gave the Colts a chance to review the play. We've wasted time outs in situations where we were simply unprepared. Time outs that could have made a difference later in the game. I ask you how does it make sense to take a time out with one second on the clock in the 1st quarter (maybe third, can't remember) but it was a horrible time out to burn. I can't remember what game it was, but it was a 4th and something and our ST are out there when the other team was gonna go for it. That is simply horrible coaching, how can you not take a time out to get your proper personnel on the field. We got burned on that possession and all because our head coach wasn't paying attention to what was happening on the field. Again I bring up the Colts challenge on Johnsons TD. I was there, I saw the replay on the big screen as well as live and it was clear he lost control on the way to the ground. Me a spectator identified that, but somehow Kubiak who's paid to do so saw the same thing and challenged it? I didn't see it on TV and I don't have DVR, so I ask. In what way shape or form can that challenge be justified?

I'm not saying I want to blow up the team. I think we have a solid foundation. Of course I'll be rooting for them to win tomorrow same as I was last week and the week before that. However looking at the coaching staff I just think this is as far as they'll take us.

I don't just blame Kubiak, blame should also go to the coaches he's brought in. Bush, his defense at the beginning of the yr. was attrocious. No discipline, blown assigments. We went through a nice stretch, but now your seeing them struggle again. Bill Kollar, he's always favored smaller high motor speed guys. His lines have never been stout against the run. You see Mario getting pushed out of plays, because hes always trying to beat his guy to the outside. Gibbs Jr. our secondary is good for PI or IC penalties every game. Shanny Jr. Our offense may move the chains, but they can't score when they need to. Harris the RB coach couldn't solve Slatons fumbling issues. It's not just Kubiak it's the entire coaching staff. Kubiak was given the chance to upgrade his coaching staff and has failed to bring in coaches that would make the necessary improvements.

I'm not panicking, I'm making observations. I'm not saying we should blow up the team. Teams make coaching changes all the time and somehow survive. I feel Kubiak was given a fair shot here. He's a good guy and I wish him the best, but I think it's time someone else was given a chance here. I don't want a coach who brings in his friends to help run things even if they haven't proven themselves. I want a coach that'll bring in people that can win. Sure I would love to see us win out, but Kubiak is under a ton of pressure right now. I just don't think he's gonna perform in this situation. I hope I'm wrong, but that's just how I see it.

Goatcheese
12-05-2009, 08:12 PM
It wasn't Kubiak who called a time out with 1 second left in the first quarter. It was the Titans. :lol:

datchapin
12-05-2009, 08:19 PM
It wasn't Kubiak who called a time out with 1 second left in the first quarter. It was the Titans. :lol:

That's it? I can live with that. I said I couldn't really remember so you got me. My bad.

Lucky
12-05-2009, 10:40 PM
You also need a little luck to win. The Texans have got NO BREAKS all
year...this team's a lucky bounce or two away from a couple more wins.
http://cdn.bleacherreport.com/images_root/image_pictures/0680/9305/102694_feature.jpg

Everyone likes to point out how close the Texans are to becoming a winner. Here's a lucky break that allowed the Texans to ice their first win of the year. They could easily be 4-7, right now.

The Texans are not 4-7. Or 9-2. They are a well-earned 5-6. It's very likely that even if the Texans win out, they're out of the playoffs. Which makes the month of December garbage time. Where wannabe teams build up meaningless wins that make their final record look respectable. Even though they were never in the playoff hunt.

Gary Kubiak's teams are 13-5 in the month of December. Sounds great. What a closer! That would be outstanding, if his teams didn't go 17-27 during the months prior to December. Did I mention that Kubiak is 7-16 vs. the AFC South? Or 7-22 against teams with winning records?

It doesn't matter what happens in December. These games have been rendered meaningless. This team is not getting better. Or getting worse. It's mired in mediocrity. Gary Kubiak is now a proven head coach. As proven as Bruce Coslet, Ray Rhodes, Dick Jauron, Wade Phillips, Norv Turner, Dave Wannstedt, and all of the other good NFL coordinators who couldn't cut it as NFL head coaches. We know what we have in Kubiak. And it's not good enough.

DexmanC
12-06-2009, 12:00 PM
http://cdn.bleacherreport.com/images_root/image_pictures/0680/9305/102694_feature.jpg

Everyone likes to point out how close the Texans are to becoming a winner. Here's a lucky break that allowed the Texans to ice their first win of the year. They could easily be 4-7, right now.

The Texans are not 4-7. Or 9-2. They are a well-earned 5-6. It's very likely that even if the Texans win out, they're out of the playoffs. Which makes the month of December garbage time. Where wannabe teams build up meaningless wins that make their final record look respectable. Even though they were never in the playoff hunt.

Gary Kubiak's teams are 13-5 in the month of December. Sounds great. What a closer! That would be outstanding, if his teams didn't go 17-27 during the months prior to December. Did I mention that Kubiak is 7-16 vs. the AFC South? Or 7-22 against teams with winning records?

It doesn't matter what happens in December. These games have been rendered meaningless. This team is not getting better. Or getting worse. It's mired in mediocrity. Gary Kubiak is now a proven head coach. As proven as Bruce Coslet, Ray Rhodes, Dick Jauron, Wade Phillips, Norv Turner, Dave Wannstedt, and all of the other good NFL coordinators who couldn't cut it as NFL head coaches. We know what we have in Kubiak. And it's not good enough.

The games haven't become meaningless, until they've earned their seventh
loss, or another team clinches the wild card. Neither has happened yet.

New_Texans
12-06-2009, 12:32 PM
Kubiak isnt the coach thats gonna lead us to the playoffs. Accept that.

houstonspartan
12-06-2009, 05:42 PM
So let me get this straight: You suddenly have "Fire Kubiak" soap as your avatar?

Give me a f-----g break, hypocrite. You live with Kubes, you die with Kubes.

Carr Bombed
12-06-2009, 05:44 PM
So I guess everybody is ready to turn on Norv Turner 2.0 then huh? :pop:

DexmanC
12-06-2009, 05:45 PM
I gave the guy 'till the end of the season. Then, he removed all doubt at
his ineptitude. I can't blame this game on the defense. I can't blame this
game on Schaub. I can't even blame this game on Chris Brown. Kubiak
allowed this play to enter into Schaub's headset:

http://i47.tinypic.com/51udeg.jpg

I'm honest. I really wanted to hold my bar of soap 'till the offseason, but
damn. The offense was clicking on ALL CYLINDERS, and our coaches let
the team down. So, close. Yet, so far away. So, I've unwrapped my bar
of soap.

houstonspartan
12-06-2009, 05:49 PM
I gave the guy 'till the end of the season. Then, he removed all doubt at
his ineptitude. I can't blame this game on the defense. I can't blame this
game on Schaub. I can't even blame this game on Chris Brown. Kubiak
allowed this play to enter into Schaub's headset:

http://i47.tinypic.com/51udeg.jpg

I'm honest. I really wanted to hold my bar of soap 'till the offseason, but
damn. The offense was clicking on ALL CYLINDERS, and our coaches let
the team down. So, close. Yet, so far away. So, I've unwrapped my bar
of soap.

You're full of s--t. What about the games we have left? Can't we still win ALL of those? According to you, we can. What did you see today that you haven't seen before?

Give me a break.

Mr. White
12-06-2009, 05:49 PM
Welcome to the Dark Side, Dex.

:hothboy:

Rep for the C. Brown gif.

Pantherstang84
12-06-2009, 05:50 PM
I learned I should go with my instincts and not waffle on decisions.

DexmanC
12-06-2009, 05:51 PM
You're full of s--t. What about the games we have left? Can't we still win ALL of those? According to you, we can. What did you see today that you haven't seen before?

Give me a break.

I was wrong. What do you expect me to say? I'm man enough to admit it.
I just needed a huge amount of evidence to see it, but I see clearly now.

houstonspartan
12-06-2009, 05:52 PM
I was wrong. What do you expect me to say? I'm man enough to admit it.
I just needed a huge amount of evidence to see it, but I see clearly now.

Ok, I respect that.

But, again: What changed your mind? Details.

disaacks3
12-06-2009, 05:52 PM
So let me get this straight: You suddenly have "Fire Kubiak" soap as your avatar?

Give me a f-----g break, hypocrite. You live with Kubes, you die with Kubes.

Got a question for ya... Where's this "living" you speak of? 8-8 isn't living. (and that's the BEST we've seen thus far)

houstonspartan
12-06-2009, 05:53 PM
Got a question for ya... Where's this "living" you speak of? 8-8 isn't living. (and that's the BEST we've seen thus far)

Very true. Good point.

DexmanC
12-06-2009, 06:00 PM
Ok, I respect that.

But, again: What changed your mind? Details.

The drive on which this play happened changed my mind.

http://i47.tinypic.com/51udeg.jpg

Matt Schaub comes out of the locker room, with ONE ARM, and was driving
the team from deep in their own territory to the 10-yardline. Ryan Moats
was moving the chains. Schaub was completing passes on 3rd and long,
Walter and Johnson were involved. Then, when we need a play for 6, the
coaches allow that play to be called.

To make a long story short...
The defense made stops when we needed them to. Schaub was leading
the offense to score, and converted several huge 1st downs, and everyone
was doing their job except the coach. This was a must win game, because
a loss puts us at 1-5 in the division, swept by Jacksonville, and have no
shot to win any tiebreakers. The lack of discipline on key plays is also
apparent. Schaub had to scream at "veteran" Chris White for false-starting
on 3rd and 5 inside the 10-yardline. Jacoby Jones, one of our biggest
playmakers, consistently misses meetings. This was one game we couldn't
afford to not have him in there.

I don't know how much clearer I can make it. I even gave you a picture,
which is worth than any thousand words I can say. I'm disappointed, and
I'm sure Grandpa Bob will make a change.

Hervoyel
12-06-2009, 06:10 PM
Norv turner took over the most talented team in the NFL, and has taken them backwards.

Kubiak took over the least talented team in the NFL. Absolute dead last, with a whole 3 players he felt worthy of keeping on the roster, and a horrible salary cap situation. He had to find 20 new starters, plus a punter and depth in 4 off seasons. 4 years is simply not enough time to replace 50 players with quality NFL talent. You're asking him to add 7-8 quality backups, and 5 NFL caliber starters every year.

Nobody can do that. 2006 was one of the best offseasons that any team has had in recent history, and it only netted us 5 NFL level starters. DeMeco Ryans, Mario Williams, Eric Winston, Owen Daniels and Kevin Walter. You can't reasonably expect them to bring in that kind of haul every year.

Add in that he's lost an All Pro TE, fringe Pro Bowl LG, and his starters at RG and FS to injury and it only gets harder.

Despite that mountain he's had to climb, this team has shown clear improvement this season over past years. They have only been 'beaten' once in 11 games. Every other game was competitive and exciting, with a chance for them to pull out a win. They've scored more points than they've surrendered for the first time in franchise history. The defense is no longer the worst in NFL history. The offense has been good despite the running game struggling this year; a problem you can realistically expect to be solved given this coaching staff's past success.

Personally I'm 50/50 on Kubes. He has been brilliant at times, and left me full on double facepalm at others. I think he's improved the team every year, and at this point, should get the final year of his contract to see if he can finish the 5 year plan. Maybe I'm being too patient, but I think a rookie head coach starting a team basically with AJ, and Pitts can't be expected to be a serious playoff contender(especially in the AFC South) after 4 years.

McNair understands the enormity of the task Kubiak has undertaken, and I can't see him throwing him under the bus without a serious collapse, and loss of confidence from the players.

Just something I've been thinking about today and this part of your post brought it back to the front of my mind.

Kubiak inherited a 2-14 team correct?

He basically took that team, added that talented bunch of 2006 rookies and got them to 6-10. That was with David Carr at QB. Starting rookies from 2006 were Mario (who had a very sub par season thanks to his foot), DeMeco Ryans (great rookie year), Owen Daniels who started 12 games, Wali Lundy who almost averaged 4 yards a carry but scared nobody), and Eric Winston. I'd count Charles Spencer but we all know how that turned out.

So we started 5 rookies for much of the year, two on defense. The rest of the team was all those guys who needed to be replaced and presumably have been. I'm totally with you here on this. That was a lousy team.

6-10 though. That's two games worse than we've been holding at for the last two years and presumably will finish in the same neighborhood again this season. I always kind of consider a three game "spread" when predicting a win/loss record. I've always done that. I think the Texans will be, say "10-6" but I always feel like that's 9-7 if they don't get more of the calls and 11-5 if they get some breaks go their way.

It's subjective but the difference between 9-7 and 11-5 isn't anything really. It's a penalty here, a fumble there. I think a 9-7 team is just as good probably as an 11-5 team on average.

So I also think a 6-10 team is likely not all that much worse than an 8-8 team. The difference between the two is just a few plays. A season like the 2-14 disaster we lived through in 2005 is an aberration for the most part. It's a case of the losing taking on a life of its own. I don't think most 2-14 teams are really "2-14 bad" That same team was 7-9 the year before so other than the one terrible season this team has been hovering in that .500ish zone since 2004.

I find myself wondering what has Kubiak really accomplished in his four years here. Sure, the talent level is better but how much? How much of that 2 game improvement comes from simply having a decent QB as opposed to David Carr? Carr was a real train wreck I believe and so I find myself believing that if you took that 2006 team and just changed out David Carr for Matt Schaub you would more than likely find yourself around .500

I'm not trying to say that they're were good (back in 2006) or that we haven't gotten better. I'm trying to say that this coaching staff and in particular Gary are going to give you about a .500 record whether you give them chicken shit or chicken salad to work with. I think you could hand the 2009 New Orleans Saints over to Gary Kubiak & Co. and by the time they were done (about three years) the Saints would be inconsistent and turning in 8-8 and 9-7 seasons.

It's either that or these better players we're all excited about are just as bad as the bunch that these coaches inherited. I can't bring myself to believe that. I truly think that Gary's going to get you about .500 no matter what you give him.

IlliniJen
12-06-2009, 06:13 PM
Kubiak displayed the SAME DAMN CHARACTERISTICS last year as he's doing this year and NOW people want him gone.

He's a bad decision maker. He's horrible prepping his team. He lacks fire, and that bleeds over to his players. He puts key plays in the hands of CHRIS BROWN, who is a nobody in this league. This guy is a doofus play waiting to be called.

DerekLee1
12-06-2009, 06:21 PM
On the halfback pass play call (as quoted by Lopez and Kalu on 610)

Andre Johnson: of course I want the ball in that situation. We should have run something different.

Eric Winston: You either look like a genius or you look like an *****

Add that to Schaub's WTF look as he walked off the field, and I think you can see the team losing confidence in their coach. You do NOT make that call with the game on the line. I like the play, but it's something you try early on in a game when the outcome isn't necessarily at risk.

beerlover
12-06-2009, 06:23 PM
thats a thoughtful post one that certainly has its merit, but I think in these diasapointing times we forget the big picture. that of having an NFL team which has to compete against the best other cities around these United States has to offer, everybody is trying to win. the difference this season is we have the ability to do so much better but haven't yet figured out how to win & lose in the most inexplicable ways possible. players still make plays, yes the coaches assume the responsiblity but they don't score touchdowns or turnover the ball thats the players responsibility.

what I'm most excited about is #1 our fanbase passion for its team, the Texans. #2 our young players drafted by excellent scouting staff & in tune with coaching staff to address needs. #3 our younger coaches like Shanahan & Gibbs. the future is bright, sometimes there is no rhyme or reason for what happens but one more solid draft & resigning key players should put us over the top. :specnatz:

hradhak
12-06-2009, 06:36 PM
I was coming into this game thinking that Kubiak should probably keep his job for one more year. After seeing this game I think that the team has not really made the progress I expected. We had a schedule that could have easily gotten us to 10-6. We've had several huge setbacks this year, Owen Daniels, our old reliable kicker blowing 2 games, Chester Pitts going down, Slaton having a crappy sophmore season, etc. My feeling on all that, though, is that every team has setbacks, and they play through them.

I can't justify keeping Kubiak on as a coach for next season. I think he has the offensive knowledge to put together a good team, but he can't make decisive calls when they are needed. I think he'll go and have a good career as an offensive coordinator or even a head coach somewhere else. Right now, though, we need a coach who is going to light a fire under this team, be a leader that we badly need, and actually prepare the team to play every week.

Texecutioner
12-06-2009, 06:49 PM
I gave the guy 'till the end of the season. Then, he removed all doubt at
his ineptitude. I can't blame this game on the defense. I can't blame this
game on Schaub. I can't even blame this game on Chris Brown. Kubiak
allowed this play to enter into Schaub's headset:

http://i47.tinypic.com/51udeg.jpg

I'm honest. I really wanted to hold my bar of soap 'till the offseason, but
damn. The offense was clicking on ALL CYLINDERS, and our coaches let
the team down. So, close. Yet, so far away. So, I've unwrapped my bar
of soap.

So you were that gung ho all year and even just yesterday about what a great coach Kubes was and will continue to be and how we were all wrong about him, but then after one game now, he's nothing of what you thought he was???? Wow. I'll take a nice hand full of salt on my way out.

DexmanC
12-06-2009, 07:11 PM
So you were that gung ho all year and even just yesterday about what a great coach Kubes was and will continue to be and how we were all wrong about him, but then after one game now, he's nothing of what you thought he was???? Wow. I'll take a nice hand full of salt on my way out.

It's not just one game. I figured he'd learn from his boneheaded decisions,
and coach properly. Running that play, in that situation, with EVERYTHING
on the line, did it for me. The Texans losing today's game effectively ended
their season. The coaches didn't put the game into the hands of its players,
they lost it for them.

Go ahead, type the magic words (I told ya so), and feel good about yourself.
The mature posters on this board know where I'm coming from. I'm man
enough to admit I was wrong. I just hate that Kubiak had to hit me upside
the head with the evidence.

houstonspartan
12-06-2009, 07:17 PM
It's not just one game. I figured he'd learn from his boneheaded decisions,
and coach properly. Running that play, in that situation, with EVERYTHING
on the line, did it for me. The Texans losing today's game effectively ended
their season. The coaches didn't put the game into the hands of its players,
they lost it for them.

Go ahead, type the magic words (I told ya so), and feel good about yourself.
The mature posters on this board know where I'm coming from. I'm man
enough to admit I was wrong. I just hate that Kubiak had to hit me upside
the head with the evidence.

Give me a break with your "the mature posters" bull---t. You have been arrogant and conceited with your defense of Kubiak, to the point where you didn't even listen to anyone else.

You even had the nerve to say that the only thing that mattered was that "Uncle Bob" listened to you. How arrogant is that? And, how MATURE is that?

I am all about admitting when you were wrong, which you did, but spare me the "mature posters" crap. Not only were you wrong, but you changed your avatar in 2 seconds flat.

houstonspartan
12-06-2009, 07:18 PM
So you were that gung ho all year and even just yesterday about what a great coach Kubes was and will continue to be and how we were all wrong about him, but then after one game now, he's nothing of what you thought he was???? Wow. I'll take a nice hand full of salt on my way out.

Exactly. And, he had the nerve to change his avatar to Fire Kubiak soap.

LOL.

Texecutioner
12-06-2009, 07:33 PM
Give me a break with your "the mature posters" bull---t. You have been arrogant and conceited with your defense of Kubiak, to the point where you didn't even listen to anyone else.

You even had the nerve to say that the only thing that mattered was that "Uncle Bob" listened to you. How arrogant is that? And, how MATURE is that?

I am all about admitting when you were wrong, which you did, but spare me the "mature posters" crap. Not only were you wrong, but you changed your avatar in 2 seconds flat.

I expected that kind of response from him. The people that lash out at others for not drinking the homerish Kool Aid usually come with something like that when there false expectations have been crushed. I'm sure that next he'll tell us that we aren't real fans since or some shit like that. :turtle:

Texecutioner
12-06-2009, 07:45 PM
Exactly. And, he had the nerve to change his avatar to Fire Kubiak soap.

LOL.

Yes, the irony of it all is quite humerous. I'll just keep those grains of salt around next week when that avatar is gone and he's telling us about how Kubiak just needs more time.

GP
12-06-2009, 07:45 PM
It's not just one game. I figured he'd learn from his boneheaded decisions,
and coach properly. Running that play, in that situation, with EVERYTHING
on the line, did it for me. The Texans losing today's game effectively ended
their season. The coaches didn't put the game into the hands of its players,
they lost it for them.

Go ahead, type the magic words (I told ya so), and feel good about yourself.
The mature posters on this board know where I'm coming from. I'm man
enough to admit I was wrong. I just hate that Kubiak had to hit me upside
the head with the evidence.

I still think well of you.

You tried to remain optimistic. No harm in that, man.

Glad to have you aboard the U.S.S. Pink Soap.

It's just the natural progression of things. The guy has done a really god job of moving the Texans up the ladder, in terms of offensive production. But his ability as a gameday manager and tactician is spotty.

It's a fine line in this league.

gary
12-06-2009, 07:57 PM
Maybe I should just get my Pink soap. Where might I get that?

PHAROAH
12-06-2009, 08:09 PM
They should fire Kubiak now there is no reason to wait until of the season to do it, we can replace with one of the other senior coaches on the staff the way that we are losing games is sad.

Carr Bombed
12-06-2009, 08:15 PM
Maybe I should just get my Pink soap. Where might I get that?

Just right click on somebody's avatar and then save picture.....then upload the file under your avatar options.

beerlover
12-06-2009, 10:26 PM
The players did not quit on Kubiak, they hung in there & made the best out of a bad situation. I had a really bad feeling going into this game, just didn't want to interject more negativity but Texans needed Steve Slaton. He makes that throw & breaks other runs for extra yards, that comibned with our LT Duane Brown trying to play hurt & TE's just unable to fill Owen Daniels shoes.

The problem this year has been Texans lack of depth. Kubiak & Smith need at least one more year to develop experienced NFL continuity, lets be fair :handshake:

Runner
12-06-2009, 10:34 PM
The players did not quit on Kubiak, they hung in there & made the best out of a bad situation. I had a really bad feeling going into this game, just didn't want to interject more negativity but Texans needed Steve Slaton. He makes that throw & breaks other runs for extra yards, that comibned with our LT Duane Brown trying to play hurt & TE's just unable to fill Owen Daniels shoes.


Yes, they need Slaton. They needed him when he was healthy and benched too.

During camp the board was electric with the opinion that Daniels is easy to replace - he's just a tight end after all. This season smacked the fan base in the face with that theory.

Wolf
12-06-2009, 10:34 PM
replace sales with talent
replace profit with coaching

http://www.sigmapiconsulting.com/Sales%20vs%20Profit.JPG

worldlyman
12-07-2009, 06:45 AM
Gary Kubiak DID HAVE the Texans at 5-3 just before the Indy 2-in-the-next-3 Gauntlet, did he not?

How soon we forget that. Just BEFORE that Gauntlet of Games, the Texans lost the BEST performing tight end at that point in time!

When a team is struggling with the run, relying on the passing game which had been effective in a big way...losing a top tier tight end certainly affects the on-field dynamics. While the Texans still compile nice yards, they are not the timely yards that we had with Owen Daniels catching everything in between.

And just so it happened, the loss of Daniels came before the first Colts game.

Losses of the premier tight end and two quality OL-men...not Gary Kubiak, are the main factors in the recent struggles. If we still had those two quality EXPERIENCED linemen, who's to say that the running game would not have turned itself around?

All through this year, it's not Kubiak that coached two crucial field goal misses, a goal line fumble and such. Winning is not easy in the NFL and if players don't make the plays at the end of close games, as Bob McNair correctly asserted, winning is all that more difficult.

The Jags game was already distorted having Schaub out for a spell, then being down 17; it's still a credit that the Texans got to 18-23 with 4:00 left (the Titans got their a--es handed on a platter in that same stadium). It was just an uphill battle against a decent Jags team that fell short. This is a game where the lack of Steve Slaton's open field services hurt, on top of not having Owen Daniels, Chester Pitts and Mike Briesel.

The Texans defense is currently one to run interference conditional to a HEALTHY offense dominating things. And clearly the Texans offense is NOT healthy. In fact I give credit to Kubiak for having the Texans offense still moving the ball enough even if they're not at full capacity to beat the Colts, Titans and Jags tough defenses.

Here Texans fans get mad when Kubiak insists on punching it in with Chris Brown...yet when he deems to do something different with Brown (at least), to change things up...there's this "FIRE KUBIAK," or "WHERE'S THAT SOAP" nonsense over one such play that did not work out? Amazing.

Let's not forget these Texans are still young. They don't yet have the veteran moxy to overcome that bad of a start (ala the Colts). But it will come, even with Kubiak at the helm!

Sure, that was a very questionable HB pass with 12:00 left, but do you use that one play to fire Gary Kubiak? No, I wouldn't.

Like I've said, it's adversity that shows what a team is all about down the road. All I know FOR FACT is that Gary Kubiak had the Houston Texans at 5-3 just before a difficult stretch of games with the Indianapolis Colts (and a bonus roadblock called the Titans). The Texans had never been 5-3 before. Curse the schedule makers for not giving us the Seahawks, Rams and Dolphins after that start instead of Indy TWICE in the next three games then.

These Texans simply were not ready to beat a prime time team like the Indy Colts in any capacity. We can talk out-coached, out-smoached all we want. But the fact is that the Texans still gave a good account of themselves against the Colts. I credit the players' young talent as well as the coaching to keep them motivated for that. The Colts at this point are STILL BETTER. SIMPLY BETTER. PERIOD.

When we saw Owen Daniels go down, the realistic fans knew that development could be a REAL ROADBLOCK to this team's further progress this season. He was a through-the-air bulldozer that kept drives alive and opened up the field BIG TIME.

Hypothetically, how well can the Colts offense perform at PEAK LEVEL for a STRETCH of games WITHOUT Dallas Clark considering their non-existent running game? How well do the Cowboys do without Jason Witten when the run game is struggling? Did you see the Cowboys-Giants today? The Cowboys couldn't run squat so Witten wound up catching over 150 yards. A passing team sans a running game DEFINITELY needs a productive tight end.

So no, I don't blame Gary Kubiak as the main reason for the bad second half of this season. I see the Texans players still playing hard to come back despite being short-handed on offense. Sure, there's boneheaded plays called...but what team out there really doesn't make boneheaded plays (ala Joseph Addai's similar pass attempt)?

Thank goodness they don't let angry short-sighted, instant-gratification fans (who can't seem to correctly take in all the factors) make personnel decisions with pro sports teams.

dalemurphy
12-07-2009, 07:19 AM
Gary Kubiak DID HAVE the Texans at 5-3 just before the Indy 2-in-the-next-3 Gauntlet, did he not?

How soon we forget that. Just BEFORE that Gauntlet of Games, the Texans lost the BEST performing tight end at that point in time!

When a team is struggling with the run, relying on the passing game which had been effective in a big way...losing a top tier tight end certainly affects the on-field dynamics. While the Texans still compile nice yards, they are not the timely yards that we had with Owen Daniels catching everything in between.

And just so it happened, the loss of Daniels came before the first Colts game.

Losses of the premier tight end and two quality OL-men...not Gary Kubiak, are the main factors in the recent struggles. If we still had those two quality EXPERIENCED linemen, who's to say that the running game would not have turned itself around?

All through this year, it's not Kubiak that coached two crucial field goal misses, a goal line fumble and such. Winning is not easy in the NFL and if players don't make the plays at the end of close games, as Bob McNair correctly asserted, winning is all that more difficult.

The Jags game was already distorted having Schaub out for a spell, then being down 17; it's still a credit that the Texans got to 18-23 with 4:00 left (the Titans got their a--es handed on a platter in that same stadium). It was just an uphill battle against a decent Jags team that fell short. This is a game where the lack of Steve Slaton's open field services hurt, on top of not having Owen Daniels, Chester Pitts and Mike Briesel.

The Texans defense is currently one to run interference conditional to a HEALTHY offense dominating things. And clearly the Texans offense is NOT healthy. In fact I give credit to Kubiak for having the Texans offense still moving the ball enough even if they're not at full capacity to beat the Colts, Titans and Jags tough defenses.

Here Texans fans get mad when Kubiak insists on punching it in with Chris Brown...yet when he deems to do something different with Brown (at least), to change things up...there's this "FIRE KUBIAK," or "WHERE'S THAT SOAP" nonsense over one such play that did not work out? Amazing.

Let's not forget these Texans are still young. They don't yet have the veteran moxy to overcome that bad of a start (ala the Colts). But it will come, even with Kubiak at the helm!

Sure, that was a very questionable HB pass with 12:00 left, but do you use that one play to fire Gary Kubiak? No, I wouldn't.

Like I've said, it's adversity that shows what a team is all about down the road. All I know FOR FACT is that Gary Kubiak had the Houston Texans at 5-3 just before a difficult stretch of games with the Indianapolis Colts (and a bonus roadblock called the Titans). The Texans had never been 5-3 before. Curse the schedule makers for not giving us the Seahawks, Rams and Dolphins after that start instead of Indy TWICE in the next three games then.

These Texans simply were not ready to beat a prime time team like the Indy Colts in any capacity. We can talk out-coached, out-smoached all we want. But the fact is that the Texans still gave a good account of themselves against the Colts. I credit the players' young talent as well as the coaching to keep them motivated for that. The Colts at this point are STILL BETTER. SIMPLY BETTER. PERIOD.

When we saw Owen Daniels go down, the realistic fans knew that development could be a REAL ROADBLOCK to this team's further progress this season. He was a through-the-air bulldozer that kept drives alive and opened up the field BIG TIME.

Hypothetically, how well can the Colts offense perform at PEAK LEVEL for a STRETCH of games WITHOUT Dallas Clark considering their non-existent running game? How well do the Cowboys do without Jason Witten when the run game is struggling? Did you see the Cowboys-Giants today? The Cowboys couldn't run squat so Witten wound up catching over 150 yards. A passing team sans a running game DEFINITELY needs a productive tight end.

So no, I don't blame Gary Kubiak as the main reason for the bad second half of this season. I see the Texans players still playing hard to come back despite being short-handed on offense. Sure, there's boneheaded plays called...but what team out there really doesn't make boneheaded plays (ala Joseph Addai's similar pass attempt)?

Thank goodness they don't let angry short-sighted, instant-gratification fans (who can't seem to correctly take in all the factors) make personnel decisions with pro sports teams.

I really do appreciate your perspective and I actually agree with you that it's silly to fire a coach over one play call. I also think the injuries to the interior Oline and to OD has derailed this team. And, I also hate it when fans start screaming to fire someone mainly because they are just disappointed in an outcome. However, here is where I disagree with you:

1. Injuries are no longer an excuse. Indy lost their entire secondary and a starting WR for the season and yet they are 12-0. Not only that, but they came back to beat us in a game where they didn't even have Dwight Freeney. The Saints lost their entire secondary the past couple weeks and just destroyed the Pats and are still undefeated. Injuries happen and must be overcome. If Schaub had gone down for the year along with AJ, Ryans, and Mario... then my perception would be different. But, everyone has to deal with injuries. Also, I think the Eugene Wilson injury really affected them yesterday. However, instead of giving the coaching staff a pass, I see it as another illustration of their incompetence: starting Busing! He's been hideous and been making the same mistakes that have cost this team all season. Furthermore, when I think that the coaches were content to start this season with the group of safeties it had (and no Pollard!), then I know they don't know what they are doing.

2. The Chris Brown playcall is symptomatic of a larger issue. It says more about confidence. Tony Dungy said at the beginning of the year that all this team needs to be a contender is confidence. Well, that is still the case and that call in that situation is an illustration of Kubiak's lack of confidence in his team and inability to instill it into his players and his QB... not to mention the fact that he can't even watch the play when it happens. In my mind, the only time you make a ballsy call like that is : 1. out of desperations or 2. when you are supremely confident in it's effectiveness. Well, I'm not sure why they would be desperate on 1st and goal at the 6 and clearly Kubiak wasn't confident in the playcall since he couldn't watch the play!

worldlyman
12-07-2009, 08:07 AM
I really do appreciate your perspective and I actually agree with you that it's silly to fire a coach over one play call. I also think the injuries to the interior Oline and to OD has derailed this team. And, I also hate it when fans start screaming to fire someone mainly because they are just disappointed in an outcome. However, here is where I disagree with you:

1. Injuries are no longer an excuse. Indy lost their entire secondary and a starting WR for the season and yet they are 12-0. Not only that, but they came back to beat us in a game where they didn't even have Dwight Freeney. The Saints lost their entire secondary the past couple weeks and just destroyed the Pats and are still undefeated. Injuries happen and must be overcome. If Schaub had gone down for the year along with AJ, Ryans, and Mario... then my perception would be different. But, everyone has to deal with injuries. Also, I think the Eugene Wilson injury really affected them yesterday. However, instead of giving the coaching staff a pass, I see it as another illustration of their incompetence: starting Busing! He's been hideous and been making the same mistakes that have cost this team all season. Furthermore, when I think that the coaches were content to start this season with the group of safeties it had (and no Pollard!), then I know they don't know what they are doing.

2. The Chris Brown playcall is symptomatic of a larger issue. It says more about confidence. Tony Dungy said at the beginning of the year that all this team needs to be a contender is confidence. Well, that is still the case and that call in that situation is an illustration of Kubiak's lack of confidence in his team and inability to instill it into his players and his QB... not to mention the fact that he can't even watch the play when it happens. In my mind, the only time you make a ballsy call like that is : 1. out of desperations or 2. when you are supremely confident in it's effectiveness. Well, I'm not sure why they would be desperate on 1st and goal at the 6 and clearly Kubiak wasn't confident in the playcall since he couldn't watch the play!


You're right about that but the Colts especially are a veteran team. They just have that moxy...but Peyton Manning is still THE key to that Colts team. Schaub is becoming excellent but he's not there yet. Indy's bread and butter at the end of the day is still offense. Their sharp offense is what won them difficult games like at Miami when Indy's defense could never get off the field. Imagine the Colts going without a clutch component like Dallas Clark for a good stretch of games. The Cowboys HAD to rely on their premier tight end Jason Witten when their running game was squat in NY. And they would have beaten the Giants with that type of ball control had it not been for the defensive and special teams breakdowns.

Losing Owen Daniels (as well as Mike Briesel and Chester Pitts) simply hurts more than we let on. The Texans rely on offense to win, not defense. The defense has improved to middle of the pack but it's not the pillar. At least not yet. I credit Gary Kubiak for getting the defense better than it has been the past couple of years and with getting more playmakers. And yes, they need to get more on that end.

There are simply factors like key injuries that can keep a team from winning that go beyond coaching or some coaching decisions. The Texans still play hard for Kubiak and that is the key thing right there.

The Saints simply have a swagger that the young Texans don't at this point. Sometimes a team that's really good, especially on the offensive end, like the Saints just have the ball literally going their way. I can't compare the Texans to them just yet.

The fact is, the Texans sans Zgonina and Turk, are the youngest NFL team just about. They don't have the experience to overcome adversity. But at this stage, it's about how they deal with it down the road. That's what interests me. Do they still play hard? They do.

I still maintain, it's not coaching that missed two game-closing field goals, an end zone fumble and necessarily a four-and-out at the red zone goal line (where Schaub barely missed Dreesen in the end zone).

Taking chances once in a awhile is what it's all about in the NFL. It's not always about desperation. It can be about throwing off balance or such. Bill Belichick tried it. Joseph Addai tried it. Kubiak tried it with Chris Brown and that HB option thing. Like other Texans fans, I don't agree with that call at all but I'm not going to want to fire Kubiak because of it.

The Jags game had so many bad elements going against us, that it didn't really matter. They still got that TD with 4:00 left to get to 18-23...and if only the defense could've stopped Jones-Drew in the crucial moments at the end. Who's to say? Jax players made the clutch plays at the right moments and at the end. But it's not like the Texans quit...such as the Titans when they got blown out there 30-13. Or the Jags themselves got blown out 40 to 17 at Tenn.

Kubiak had the Texans at 5-3 and they simply had a bad stretch against a Colts team that is just simply better. But I want Kubiak to fix that running game for next year and keep adding pieces to the defense. I know he will do that. Losing Briesel and Pitts, who's to say that there wouldn't have been a rushing game turnaround if they stayed healthy? He did manage a very good rushing game last year, so there's no reason to believe he won't rebuild that.

DexmanC
12-07-2009, 08:12 AM
Gary Kubiak DID HAVE the Texans at 5-3 just before the Indy 2-in-the-next-3 Gauntlet, did he not?

How soon we forget that. Just BEFORE that Gauntlet of Games, the Texans lost the BEST performing tight end at that point in time!

When a team is struggling with the run, relying on the passing game which had been effective in a big way...losing a top tier tight end certainly affects the on-field dynamics. While the Texans still compile nice yards, they are not the timely yards that we had with Owen Daniels catching everything in between.

And just so it happened, the loss of Daniels came before the first Colts game.

Losses of the premier tight end and two quality OL-men...not Gary Kubiak, are the main factors in the recent struggles. If we still had those two quality EXPERIENCED linemen, who's to say that the running game would not have turned itself around?

All through this year, it's not Kubiak that coached two crucial field goal misses, a goal line fumble and such. Winning is not easy in the NFL and if players don't make the plays at the end of close games, as Bob McNair correctly asserted, winning is all that more difficult.

The Jags game was already distorted having Schaub out for a spell, then being down 17; it's still a credit that the Texans got to 18-23 with 4:00 left (the Titans got their a--es handed on a platter in that same stadium). It was just an uphill battle against a decent Jags team that fell short. This is a game where the lack of Steve Slaton's open field services hurt, on top of not having Owen Daniels, Chester Pitts and Mike Briesel.

The Texans defense is currently one to run interference conditional to a HEALTHY offense dominating things. And clearly the Texans offense is NOT healthy. In fact I give credit to Kubiak for having the Texans offense still moving the ball enough even if they're not at full capacity to beat the Colts, Titans and Jags tough defenses.

Here Texans fans get mad when Kubiak insists on punching it in with Chris Brown...yet when he deems to do something different with Brown (at least), to change things up...there's this "FIRE KUBIAK," or "WHERE'S THAT SOAP" nonsense over one such play that did not work out? Amazing.

Let's not forget these Texans are still young. They don't yet have the veteran moxy to overcome that bad of a start (ala the Colts). But it will come, even with Kubiak at the helm!

Sure, that was a very questionable HB pass with 12:00 left, but do you use that one play to fire Gary Kubiak? No, I wouldn't.

Like I've said, it's adversity that shows what a team is all about down the road. All I know FOR FACT is that Gary Kubiak had the Houston Texans at 5-3 just before a difficult stretch of games with the Indianapolis Colts (and a bonus roadblock called the Titans). The Texans had never been 5-3 before. Curse the schedule makers for not giving us the Seahawks, Rams and Dolphins after that start instead of Indy TWICE in the next three games then.

These Texans simply were not ready to beat a prime time team like the Indy Colts in any capacity. We can talk out-coached, out-smoached all we want. But the fact is that the Texans still gave a good account of themselves against the Colts. I credit the players' young talent as well as the coaching to keep them motivated for that. The Colts at this point are STILL BETTER. SIMPLY BETTER. PERIOD.

When we saw Owen Daniels go down, the realistic fans knew that development could be a REAL ROADBLOCK to this team's further progress this season. He was a through-the-air bulldozer that kept drives alive and opened up the field BIG TIME.

Hypothetically, how well can the Colts offense perform at PEAK LEVEL for a STRETCH of games WITHOUT Dallas Clark considering their non-existent running game? How well do the Cowboys do without Jason Witten when the run game is struggling? Did you see the Cowboys-Giants today? The Cowboys couldn't run squat so Witten wound up catching over 150 yards. A passing team sans a running game DEFINITELY needs a productive tight end.

So no, I don't blame Gary Kubiak as the main reason for the bad second half of this season. I see the Texans players still playing hard to come back despite being short-handed on offense. Sure, there's boneheaded plays called...but what team out there really doesn't make boneheaded plays (ala Joseph Addai's similar pass attempt)?

Thank goodness they don't let angry short-sighted, instant-gratification fans (who can't seem to correctly take in all the factors) make personnel decisions with pro sports teams.

I was in the same boat as you before yesterday's game, but that game
illustrated everything a lot of anti-Kubiak posters were screaming at
me. I was just too blind to see it. Gary Kubiak went against his own
philosophy with the HB Pass. This is the same guy, when asked about
lining up Casey in the Wildcat, said "We have to worry about OUR cat, before
the wildcat."

Kubiak is ALSO the same guy who REFUSES to allow Marciano to call a
fake, although Joe is one of the best special teams coaches in the game.
Also, calling that play, in that SITUATION (1st and goal at the 5, down
by ELEVEN, with a quarterback who had lead his team a good 60 yards
to be in that position.) You take the ball, and game, out of the hands
of your quarterback, and place it into the hands of your THIRD STRING
runningback, who ALREADY cost you two games with his legs at the
1-yardline!!

dalemurphy
12-07-2009, 08:18 AM
I was in the same boat as you before yesterday's game, but that game
illustrated everything a lot of anti-Kubiak posters were screaming at
me. I was just too blind to see it. Gary Kubiak went against his own
philosophy with the HB Pass. This is the same guy, when asked about
lining up Casey in the Wildcat, said "We have to worry about OUR cat, before
the wildcat."

Kubiak is ALSO the same guy who REFUSES to allow Marciano to call a
fake, although Joe is one of the best special teams coaches in the game.
Also, calling that play, in that SITUATION (1st and goal at the 5, down
by ELEVEN, with a quarterback who had lead his team a good 60 yards
to be in that position.) You take the ball, and game, out of the hands
of your quarterback, and place it into the hands of your THIRD STRING
runningback, who ALREADY cost you two games with his legs at the
1-yardline!!


Unfortunately, Chris Brown has become our 1st String RB. That may say more about the coaching than that playcall does! They still think he's our best short yardage option... That is truly disturbing!

He's our best short yardage option on 1st down.. that is true.

worldlyman
12-07-2009, 08:27 AM
I was in the same boat as you before yesterday's game, but that game
illustrated everything a lot of anti-Kubiak posters were screaming at
me. I was just too blind to see it. Gary Kubiak went against his own
philosophy with the HB Pass. This is the same guy, when asked about
lining up Casey in the Wildcat, said "We have to worry about OUR cat, before
the wildcat."

Kubiak is ALSO the same guy who REFUSES to allow Marciano to call a
fake, although Joe is one of the best special teams coaches in the game.
Also, calling that play, in that SITUATION (1st and goal at the 5, down
by ELEVEN, with a quarterback who had lead his team a good 60 yards
to be in that position.) You take the ball, and game, out of the hands
of your quarterback, and place it into the hands of your THIRD STRING
runningback, who ALREADY cost you two games with his legs at the
1-yardline!!

That game was already an uphill climb when Schaub was out for a spell and the score read 0-17.

Yeah, the HB thing was bad. You are correct that the Texans should have used something more reliable, like a throw to AJ or another RB punch-in like in the first half. I don't agree with the HB pass at all. But I'm not going to call for Kubiak's head for it considering all that's gone.

But my basic assertion is not about one game or one play. I'm talking about the body of this season.

Kubiak had them at 5-3 before going up against an Indy team that nobody else has beaten...and with the loss of a CRUCIAL offensive piece like Owen Daniels just before that gauntlet. Sometimes for a young team like the Texans, the snowball just gets larger.

But they fought hard against those Colts. They showed they had the weapons to fight Indy for a good stretch but in the end, the Colts are just better at this time. Out-coached, out-smoached. As long as we see that it's not like 2005 or 2007 when the Colts had their way. The Texans fought hard, gave them a load even if there was a bad call here or dumb play there.

The Texans should fix their running game...and get some guys that can get after the QB more consistently. I don't blame Kubiak per se for the bad second half of the 2009 season. They need to grow from it and give him his last year. They are finally showing signs of becoming a very, very good team for awhile...but there are always the bitter waters before the sweet for some teams.

Kubiak should stay for his last year.

1. He got the the Texans to 5-3 first time ever before the Indy barrier.
2. The defense has shown consistent life after the first few difficult weeks.
3. He's had the 3 key Texans offensive players in the top 5 stats, first time in Texans history, I believe.

It has gotten better than last year, as these developments prove. One bad stretch against an insurmountable team that pretty much got a snowball rolling against them doesn't tarnish the tangible positives of this year. These Texans even with one win against Indy are not a contender just yet anyway.

The Houston Texans are being built for a good stretch period and not some one or one and a half year wonder like some other teams.

DexmanC
12-07-2009, 08:33 AM
That game was already an uphill climb when Schaub was out for a spell and the score read 0-17.

Yeah, the HB thing was bad. You are correct that the Texans should have used something more reliable, like a throw to AJ or another RB punch-in like in the first half. I don't agree with the HB pass at all. But I'm not going to call for Kubiak's head for it considering all that's gone.

But my basic assertion is not about one game or one play. I'm talking about the body of this season.

Kubiak had them at 5-3 before going up against an Indy team that nobody else has beaten...and with the loss of a CRUCIAL offensive piece like Owen Daniels just before that gauntlet. Sometimes for a young team like the Texans, the snowball just gets larger.

The Texans should fix their running game...and get some guys that can get after the QB more consistently. I don't blame Kubiak per se for the bad second half of the 2009 season. They need to grow from it and give him his last year. They are finally showing signs of becoming a very, very good team for awhile...but there are always the bitter waters before the sweet for some teams.

1. He got the the Texans to 5-3 first time ever before the Indy barrier.
2. The defense has shown consistent life after the first few difficult weeks.
3. He's had the 3 key Texans offensive players in the top 5 stats, first time in Texans history, I believe.

It has gotten better than last year, as these developments prove. One bad stretch against an insurmountable team that pretty much got a snowball rolling against them doesn't tarnish the tangible positives of this year. These Texans even with one win against Indy are not a contender just yet anyway.

The Houston Texans are being built for a good stretch period and not some one or one and a half year wonder like some other teams.

The coach's job is to put the players in the best situation to win the game.
The players had PLAYED THEMSELVES TO A CHANCE to lessen the deficit
by 6-8 points. They would have been down 5, or three with over
TWELVE MINUTES left in the game! The coaching staff RIPPED THE
OPPORTUNITY away from the players, to lose the game FOR THEM. It's
inexcusable. Momentum does play a role in football games. It's an emotional
sport. The coach stole the momentum from the Texans and handed to the
Jags with THAT call, in THAT situation. It's not the first time it's happened
to this team this season, but I can't defend the guy who stuck it to his
team again.

I swear. Worldly man sounds like I did just last week. I gave Kubiak till the end of the season,
which unfortunately ended yesterday.

DexmanC
12-07-2009, 08:41 AM
You know what, Worldlyman, you're right. Kubiak made the right call.
It's Vonta Leach's fault for missing the block on that cornerback who
fired thru to tackle Brown. If Leach makes that block, then the call doesn't
seem so stupid!

:sarcasm:

http://i47.tinypic.com/2dgu9w2.jpg

Runner
12-07-2009, 08:43 AM
... Chris Brown ...

He's our best short yardage option on 1st down.. that is true.

Now that is funny.