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scourge
12-01-2009, 08:02 PM
"Right now I have a coach"

Linky (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/6747936.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+houstonchronicle%2Ftopheadlin es+%28chron.com+-+Top+Stories%29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher)

valleytexfan
12-01-2009, 08:09 PM
Beat me to it... ;)

Vinny
12-01-2009, 08:11 PM
The Texans’ performance in their last five games will determine the fate of coach Gary Kubiak and his assistants. We heard this before. I think that was the "Leave Carr Alone!" catch phrase once we fell out of contention (on queue of course).

GuerillaBlack
12-01-2009, 08:14 PM
Seems like he's content...

Second Honeymoon
12-01-2009, 08:14 PM
"Right now I have a coach"

Linky (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/6747936.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+houstonchronicle%2Ftopheadlin es+%28chron.com+-+Top+Stories%29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher)

wow. 'right now' i have a coach. that was what they call a shot across the broadsides. Hopefully its purpose will be to let the team and coaching staff know that they are all playing for their jobs. Even mentioning 10-6 shows that it might be win out and try and sneak in playoffs at 10-6 or that Kubiak may not be his coach 'right then'.

You can kind of see it both ways but the whole 10-6 thing means he may be at wits end with Kubiak. He is a fan too and he has seen the same football we have seen. I am sure he is thinking about making a move. He is not at the point of actually doing it but its gotta be in his mind.

The problem is to make a move that would actually improve things its going to take either risking 3 or 4 years with another unproven head coach or that McNair is going to have to pony up the big money and bring in a guy like Cowher/Holmgren/Shott. Those guys all have a proven track record of success and stability. I don't think its going to cost 10$million for Cowher though. He will have to be the highest paid coach but he is arguably the highest qualified coach out there available so you get what you pay for. I bet 7million gets it done. That is more than Spurrier stole from the Skins but not quite the Holmgren GM/Head Coach salary that he got from Paul Allen of the Seahawks.

Vinny
12-01-2009, 08:18 PM
McNair said a big part of the blame should be placed on players who continue to make mistakes that cost them games rather than making plays that pull out victories.

“The coaches responsibility is to get the players ready,” McNair said. “I think they’ve done that. Opposing teams haven’t been doing things we haven’t prepared for. There haven’t been surprises.

“The players have to perform on the field. They have to develop that consistency. The coaches can’t run, catch, throw and tackle. They’re not in the huddle. That’s on the players. Players know that.

“When the coaches don’t put the players in the best position, they tell the players that one was on me, and it won’t happen again.” This is a quote from Bob McNair....sooooooo, Kubiak has said it was 'on him' about 700 times this year, or so. More or less.

phantom17
12-01-2009, 08:22 PM
Seems like he's content...

Then he is content with another year of "sucky" football in Htown! McNair needs to grow a "pair" & get a PROVEN head coach! It's this kind of talk from our boss that I wish we had an owner like.....GASP, YIKES......Jerry Jones! :roast:

scourge
12-01-2009, 08:22 PM
This is a quote from Bob McNair....sooooooo, Kubiak has said it was 'on him' about 700 times this year, or so. More or less.

Sounds about right to me. No wonder they are inconsistent. They aren't held accountable if it is always on him.

TheRealJoker
12-01-2009, 08:23 PM
"“We’re starting to develop leadership on the team, but we’re not there yet,” he said. “They need to step up and take charge when they’re on the field and not let these mental lapses occur. Maybe we need to bring in more players to develop more leadership. We’ll have to see how we do in these last five games."

I found this snippet very interesting. It seems like Mcnair feels the same way I feel regarding the veteran leadership (or lack of) on this team. What that quote tells me is that even if Kubiak wins out and we somehow sneak into the playoffs because the teams in front of us collapse, Mcnair will not tolerate going another year without any quality vets in the starting lineup to hold the young players together during crunch time.

Buffi2
12-01-2009, 08:23 PM
Seems to me we have a bigger problem than I originally thought. The players are blaming the fans, the fans are blaming the coach, the owner is blaming the players and the coach says it is all on him.

McNair said a big part of the blame should be placed on players who continue to make mistakes that cost them games rather than making plays that pull out victories.

I don't know, but it sounds to me that Kubiak stays unless we lose the rest of the games.

GuerillaBlack
12-01-2009, 08:23 PM
Then he is content with another year of "sucky" football in Htown! McNair needs to grow a "pair" & get a PROVEN head coach! It's this kind of talk from our boss that I wish we had an owner like.....GASP, YIKES......Jerry Jones! :roast:

But we're classy!

TheRealJoker
12-01-2009, 08:25 PM
He will have to be the highest paid coach but he is arguably the highest qualified coach out there available so you get what you pay for. I bet 7million gets it done. That is more than Spurrier stole from the Skins but not quite the Holmgren GM/Head Coach salary that he got from Paul Allen of the Seahawks.

We are paying Dunta 9 million to get pass interference calls every game...

I'd gladly pay a high quality HOF caliber HC like Cowher 10 million. He'd be worth every penny compared to the typical "big name FA" signing or our "franchise CB"

Second Honeymoon
12-01-2009, 08:26 PM
Reading through it a second time, its not quite as bad. The 'right now' comment is still pretty brutal but he holds the players feet to the fire as much as kubiak and the coaching staff. the whole '10-6' though....

....what has Bob been smoking? I would love to see it happen but that ain't happenin'. no way no how.

Just bring Dan Reeves in to tell you whatever you want to hear, Bob. It worked so well the first time.

nunusguy
12-01-2009, 08:26 PM
“This is a critical time,” McNair said. “My true feeling is we have our best chance of developing a winning team with Gary as opposed to someone else, at this point in time. Making a change is very disruptive.
**
“Even though you’re very sound and have a good relationship with the players, you still have to get them to perform. If we win the next five games, we’d be 10-6 and in the playoff race. That would be an outstanding performance. If we lose the next five, well, we’re in trouble.”
***************************************
Clearly McNairs inclination and desire is to retain Kubiak, so the job would appear to be the current HCs to lose ? But lose it he can depending on how he does in the remaining 5 games.

Buffi2
12-01-2009, 08:26 PM
But we're classy!

There is a lot to be said for that. The key is to be classy and win - we haven't got the latter down yet.

hollywood_texan
12-01-2009, 08:27 PM
Seems to me we have a bigger problem than I originally thought. The players are blaming the fans, the fans are blaming the coach, the owner is blaming the players and the coach says it is all on him.


Excellent analysis and provided me a great laugh!!!

thunderkyss
12-01-2009, 08:28 PM
The Texans’ performance in their last five games will determine the fate of coach Gary Kubiak and his assistants.
We heard this before. I think that was the "Leave Carr Alone!" catch phrase once we fell out of contention (on queue of course).

I just want to make sure it's clear, for those who don't take the time to go & read the whole link... which they should, I can't remember McNair saying so much at one time, but those are John McClain's words, not McNair's.

McNair said a big part of the blame should be placed on players who continue to make mistakes that cost them games rather than making plays that pull out victories.

“The coaches responsibility is to get the players ready,” McNair said. “I think they’ve done that. Opposing teams haven’t been doing things we haven’t prepared for. There haven’t been surprises.

“The players have to perform on the field. They have to develop that consistency. The coaches can’t run, catch, throw and tackle. They’re not in the huddle. That’s on the players. Players know that.

“When the coaches don’t put the players in the best position, they tell the players that one was on me, and it won’t happen again.”

McNair said leadership among the players is of the utmost importance.

“We’re starting to develop leadership on the team, but we’re not there yet,” he said. “They need to step up and take charge when they’re on the field and not let these mental lapses occur. Maybe we need to bring in more players to develop more leadership. We’ll have to see how we do in these last five games.

“I think the coaches have done a good job. We don’t have the record I hoped we’d have, and that’s disappointing. I know Gary’s disappointed, too. The key is for us to focus on going to Jacksonville and trying to win this game. If we keep it at six losses, we’re still in the hunt.”

These are McNair's words.... at least some of them, & it seems he's very happy with what the coaches have done. He's dissappointed with the development with the players as leaders, & seems to have a very good understanding of the game.

Try to think about the strongest on the field leader who will be available in FA... & that's probably who we'll add to this team.

Not a Cedric Benson, Haynesworth, Larry Johnson or anything like that.

Maybe a Ladanian Tomlinson.. Ed Reed or something like that.

Runner
12-01-2009, 08:29 PM
This is a quote from Bob McNair....sooooooo, Kubiak has said it was 'on him' about 700 times this year, or so. More or less.

I was just going to post that excerpt. I don't know how he figures the team is so well prepared to play; they sure don't look it at times. It looks like McNair is absolving Kubiak and blaming the players. I don't buy it; even ignoring the question of who picked the players.

How can the players be so well prepared if they make mistakes game after game? It's not just one or two players either; it's many players or even whole units. Someone is always screwing up - where do all of these someones converge?

Vinny
12-01-2009, 08:30 PM
Seems to me we have a bigger problem than I originally thought. The players are blaming the fans, the fans are blaming the coach, the owner is blaming the players and the coach says it is all on him.



I don't know, but it sounds to me that Kubiak stays unless we lose the rest of the games.
Sounds like nobody knows what the hell they are looking at over there off Fannin. You know McNair is gonna do the same thing he did with Carr. Kubiak's teams will beat Seattle and the Rams since nothing is on the line and they will blame the lack of winning a few more games on injuries as if the Colts totally collapsed once Freeney, Sanders and Marlin Jackson went down.

Carr Bombed
12-01-2009, 08:31 PM
Crap, now I have to hope Houston loses to Jacksonville. Even McNair can't "chicken salad" 4 straight divisional losses right in the middle of a playoff race.

(oh and before anybody says I'm "not a true fan" shove it......don't even go there.)


and all of this right after I was giving McNair the benefit of the doubt in another thread...

Vinny
12-01-2009, 08:31 PM
I was just going to post that excerpt. I don't know how he figures the team is so well prepared to play; they sure don't look it at times. It looks like McNair is absolving Kubiak and blaming the players. I don't buy it; even ignoring the question of who picked the players.

How can the players be so well prepared if they make mistakes game after game? It's not just one or two players either; it's many players or even whole units. Someone is always screwing up - where do all of these someones converge?
They look sloppy constantly....it's like watching Fox News when you hear Texan Management speak nowdays. I bet they change the crowd shot next.

Mr. White
12-01-2009, 08:35 PM
We heard this before. I think that was the "Leave Carr Alone!" catch phrase once we fell out of contention (on queue of course).

This is what I go back to. Carr got the same vote of confidence toward the end of the season in 2006. Didn't take too long before he was out on his ass.

Mr. White
12-01-2009, 08:36 PM
BTW...

Does anyone remember if Capers also got the "vote of confidence" in 2005?

Thorn
12-01-2009, 08:40 PM
This is disappointing, but certainly not unexpected.

Runner
12-01-2009, 08:41 PM
I was just going to post that excerpt. I don't know how he figures the team is so well prepared to play; they sure don't look it at times. It looks like McNair is absolving Kubiak and blaming the players. I don't buy it; even ignoring the question of who picked the players.

How can the players be so well prepared if they make mistakes game after game? It's not just one or two players either; it's many players or even whole units. Someone is always screwing up - where do all of these someones converge?
They look sloppy constantly....it's like watching Fox News when you hear Texan Management speak nowdays. I bet they change the crowd shot next.

This is just super. The players know what's what. They know when they aren't being coached well, they know when the coaches aren't prepared, they damn well know when the coach isn't putting the best players on the field.

Having the owner then throw them under the bus while pumping up the coaching staff...this may be interesting to watch.

Second Honeymoon
12-01-2009, 08:41 PM
We are paying Dunta 9 million to get pass interference calls every game...

I'd gladly pay a high quality HOF caliber HC like Cowher 10 million. He'd be worth every penny compared to the typical "big name FA" signing or our "franchise CB"

head coach doesn't count against the salary cap. its where you can really help your team without worry. I would be OK with paying Cowher $10million but I am not quite sure that McNair would be. I am not even sure Kubiak makes over $2 million. That is a big step up in coaching salary, not to mention he is going to want big $$ to bring his coaches in.

I want change to happen and it actually could be a good business move in the end for McNair's Texans. Cowher would FULLY energize and legitimize this team. We would definitely get more national exposure for sure and probably an extra nationally televised game or even two more. If you add a Cowher and a nice offseason in the draft and FA we could TRULY be a force to be reckoned with.

Tell you what Bob. Sign Bill Cowher and pass the cost down to the consumer. Your already charging me $7.25 for a beer, why not keep the .75 and make it an even $8. Use the extra 'surcharge' to subsidize signing Cowher. Increase parking lot costs $2.50 a game. Make it cost like $4 or 5 on average more per fan to go to the game and get a coach that will actually send people home happy and with a big win. That would generate between 2 or 3 million more annually.

SAMURAITEXAN
12-01-2009, 08:44 PM
From our experience of how Carr was handle by McNair, I don't think McNair gonna come out saying Kubiak this and that to stir things up. Like how Carr was to McNair, Kubiak is to McNair. It is Kubiak to lose his job not McNair to fire.

I see McNair letting Kubiak to be HC for at least one more year.

Go Texans!!!

thunderkyss
12-01-2009, 08:45 PM
Then he is content with another year of "sucky" football in Htown! McNair needs to grow a "pair" & get a PROVEN head coach! It's this kind of talk from our boss that I wish we had an owner like.....GASP, YIKES......Jerry Jones! :roast:

Other than the Jets game, I don't remember much sucky football this year.

They've all been really good games.

Buffi2
12-01-2009, 08:45 PM
BTW...

Does anyone remember if Capers also got the "vote of confidence" in 2005?

I don't think he did. If I remember correctly, everyone including Capers knew he was history. But, if anything was said, it wasn't this more or less ringing endorsement.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
12-01-2009, 08:48 PM
Other than the Jets game, I don't remember much sucky football this year.

They've all been really good games.



You must only watch one half every week.

thunderkyss
12-01-2009, 08:54 PM
Crap, now I have to hope Houston loses to Jacksonville. Even McNair can't "chicken salad" 4 straight divisional losses right in the middle of a playoff race.

(oh and before anybody says I'm "not a true fan" shove it......don't even go there.)


and all of this right after I was giving McNair the benefit of the doubt in another thread...

If all that matters, is that we make the play-offs, then why would you want us to lose another game?

Now isn't the time to give up... we're one game away from that.

Let Kubiak do what he do.

I don't understand anyone thinking right now, that we are playing for nothing. Every game from here until our next loss means more than any game we ever played.

Everything is on the line, now.

Mr. White
12-01-2009, 09:02 PM
If this is how he really feels, then the emperor has no clothes. And the fans are getting ready to jump.

You guys say what you want about Bud Adams, but at least he knew when to drop the hammer on someone (except for Bum.) We all knew that Jerry Glanville wasn't going to get us past the wild card game and it was time for a change.

This is the Ed Biles/Chuck Studley era of the Texans.

Thorn
12-01-2009, 09:06 PM
This is the Ed Biles/Chuck Studley era of the Texans.

We aren't that bad. As fans, we might be just as upset as fans were then, but the team certainly isn't as bad as those were.

Vinny
12-01-2009, 09:07 PM
Let Kubiak do what he do.

I don't understand anyone thinking right now, that we are playing for nothing. Every game from here until our next loss means more than any game we ever played.

Everything is on the line, now.everything was on the line the last two weeks. This team will step up once ousted...that's how we have done it in the Kubiak era and he has given us no reason to believe otherwise.

Mr. White
12-01-2009, 09:08 PM
We aren't that bad. As fans, we might be just as upset as fans were then, but the team certainly isn't as bad as those were.

Okay....Hugh Campbell era.

Thorn
12-01-2009, 09:10 PM
Okay....Hugh Campbell era.

Damn you! I'm gonna have nightmares tonight now! LOL

Runner
12-01-2009, 09:16 PM
The problem is, once Kubes finishes out at 3-2 to reach 8-8 how does this team get spun as an improvement? Last year it was all Sage and Richard Smith's fault. Apparently they've been replaced by a team full of screw-ups.

The Texans are in real danger of not building the right way!

:sarcasm:

gary
12-01-2009, 09:17 PM
I still don't what he says behind closed doors and I am not sure he'd call out Gary in the paper.

Hookem Horns
12-01-2009, 09:26 PM
This kinda reminds me of "we have our quarterback" when McNair and Casserly were be questioned about them drafting Vince Young.

utahmark
12-01-2009, 09:29 PM
This is just super. The players know what's what. They know when they aren't being coached well, they know when the coaches aren't prepared, they damn well know when the coach isn't putting the best players on the field.
Having the owner then throw them under the bus while pumping up the coaching staff...this may be interesting to watch.

i think we will find out over the last 5 games how the players feel about there coaches.

bckey
12-01-2009, 09:37 PM
If this plays out like it did with David Carr then McNair will keep Kubiak for another year no matter what. And it will turn out to be a year too long once again. Sometimes you can have too much patience for your own good.

I wonder if McNair noticed how many seats in sold out Reliant were filled with Colts fans because Texan fans sold their tickets? It was disgusting. Open your eyes!

steelbtexan
12-01-2009, 09:45 PM
If all that matters, is that we make the play-offs, then why would you want us to lose another game?

Now isn't the time to give up... we're one game away from that.

Let Kubiak do what he do.

I don't understand anyone thinking right now, that we are playing for nothing. Every game from here until our next loss means more than any game we ever played.

Everything is on the line, now.

I'm going to speak for CB. He's tired of seeing the SOS.

If it takes a loss to the Jags to affect change then so be it.

Not that I feel this way.

After reading this thread Kubes will be back unless the team falls on its collective faces.

If Bob wanted to make a differece on this teams record this year he should have been on board with signing LJ. Who ran for over 100 yds. BTW

Keep on fooling the masses Bob and keep on cashing those checks.

Chior boys and the NFL dont mix.

houstonspartan
12-02-2009, 12:06 AM
I'm laughing my ass off at this thread. Do you guys not really see what Bob McNair is trying to say here?


Read between the lines. If I were Gary, I'd call my realtor and put my house up for sale. The odds of him being employed in a few months are slim.

McNair has had enough.

GP
12-02-2009, 12:59 AM
McNair said a big part of the blame should be placed on players who continue to make mistakes that cost them games rather than making plays that pull out victories.

“The coaches responsibility is to get the players ready,” McNair said. “I think they’ve done that. Opposing teams haven’t been doing things we haven’t prepared for. There haven’t been surprises.

“The players have to perform on the field. They have to develop that consistency. The coaches can’t run, catch, throw and tackle. They’re not in the huddle. That’s on the players. Players know that.

“When the coaches don’t put the players in the best position, they tell the players that one was on me, and it won’t happen again.”

WHAT?!?!?

We had two weeks to prepare for Vince Young and the option. As coach, I would have had one of my quickest scrubs out there as VY (during practice) running the option to Arian Foster or Moats. And that's ALL I would have been doing. For two weeks. Nothing else. Just that.

And when that option was called during the MNF game, my defense would have played it perfectly and would have nailed it from the very get-go. And it would have flustered VY and the Titans.

But instead, we looked lost and were trying to just hang on as best we could. The Titans got back to doing what VY does best: Using him as a running threat, and pairing him with CJ on the option run play.

If our coaches couldn't prepare the players any better than what I saw on MNF, then how can McNair say all this crap?

He's as full of crap as his past two coaches have been.

I didn't think I could be any more red-ass'd than I was earlier today, but this little gem just takes the cake.

Go Texans...

houstonspartan
12-02-2009, 01:24 AM
WHAT?!?!?

We had two weeks to prepare for Vince Young and the option. As coach, I would have had one of my quickest scrubs out there as VY (during practice) running the option to Arian Foster or Moats. And that's ALL I would have been doing. For two weeks. Nothing else. Just that.

And when that option was called during the MNF game, my defense would have played it perfectly and would have nailed it from the very get-go. And it would have flustered VY and the Titans.

But instead, we looked lost and were trying to just hang on as best we could. The Titans got back to doing what VY does best: Using him as a running threat, and pairing him with CJ on the option run play.

If our coaches couldn't prepare the players any better than what I saw on MNF, then how can McNair say all this crap?

He's as full of crap as his past two coaches have been.

I didn't think I could be any more red-ass'd than I was earlier today, but this little gem just takes the cake.

Go Texans...

Ok, no joke. I see what you mean about the MNF game. I'm still pissed off about it, and can't understand why we were not prepared.

But, reading the entire story, I read McNair's comments differently. I think he's done with Kubiak. I read it as: "Gary, if you don't win the rest of these games, your ass is grass. And, your ass might me grass anyway."

McNair is not playing around.

GNTLEWOLF
12-02-2009, 02:50 AM
Well, based on McNair's comments, I'd like to take a crack at predicting how next season will go.... Texans start off the season with high hopes all around until they drop their first two or three games. As the faithful begin to cry for "No" Clubiak's head, the Texans pull out two sloppy wins in a row against teams they should have demolished. The Kubiak Koolaide club begins to start with the "reasons" why we need to keep him and why he is the only coach who can take this team to the next level. They also begin to enumerate all the excuses why the Texans haven't won in the past and say this year will be different, "just look at the winning streak we are on." Suddenly, the team goes into a five game nose dive. But wait! we are still in it don't lose hope! The team bounces back and wins three more. At 5-7 anything could happen now. maybe this is the year. The team wins another two games. The Kubiak crowd is relieved! Whoo back to good old 500 ball. That was close. And they show it. With nothing left to win the team splits the last two and all the Kub fans are happy and are screaming for a contract extension. The cries of one more year go up and McNair joyfully renews his guy. The rest of us wonder what calamity has to hit before something new happens. Oh Well, we just fall back on the Texans motto "Wait Till next year!"

Malloy
12-02-2009, 04:49 AM
If this plays out like it did with David Carr then McNair will keep Kubiak for another year no matter what. And it will turn out to be a year too long once again. Sometimes you can have too much patience for your own good.

I wonder if McNair noticed how many seats in sold out Reliant were filled with Colts fans because Texan fans sold their tickets? It was disgusting. Open your eyes!

How about we start blaming the fans first for selling their tickets?

bckey
12-02-2009, 06:56 AM
How about we start blaming the fans first for selling their tickets?


After the monday night game against the Titans who could blame them. The Texans had 2 weeks to prepare. When the pressure is on they crumble. And for icing on the cake now all the VY nut huggers are back out of their closets.

GP
12-02-2009, 07:25 AM
Ok, no joke. I see what you mean about the MNF game. I'm still pissed off about it, and can't understand why we were not prepared.

But, reading the entire story, I read McNair's comments differently. I think he's done with Kubiak. I read it as: "Gary, if you don't win the rest of these games, your ass is grass. And, your ass might me grass anyway."

McNair is not playing around.

OK, after I took two chill pills (and read your post, then re-read the bolded part of McNair's statement) I think what McNair MIGHT be saying is this:

"Our coaches didn't prepare the team. It's not like our opponents threw in some secret gadget plays that we didn't know about. We faced opponents who did things that we could have stopped. But we didn't. And, players were not doing even the basic things out there...like tackling."

I think the part about McNair saying "...and coaches say 'that's on me'...." might be McNair admitting that you can only say "it's on me" so many times before it isn't a smart answer anymore.

I don't know that he has to win every single game left on the schedule in order to remain here. I don't get that vibe. I think he has to have a tremendous collapse and finish 8-8 or worse. 9-7, though, might not cut the cake if McNair doesn't like how the 7th loss went down.

PHAROAH
12-02-2009, 07:58 AM
Show of confidence for now and if they don't make the playoffs he will be fired.

BigBull17
12-02-2009, 08:24 AM
Other than the Jets game, I don't remember much sucky football this year.

They've all been really good games.

We've lost 6 games, are below .500, and can't hold leads. That = sucky football. You can't consistantly be a punching bag for your divisional opponents. That's exactly what we are. If you can beat the Colts up 17 with them missing Freeney, Jackson, and Sanders, when are you gonna beat them? Seriously.

TimeKiller
12-02-2009, 08:29 AM
“When the coaches don’t put the players in the best position, they tell the players that one was on me, and it won’t happen again.”
Jacoby Jones best position certainly is NOT the bench, watching David Anderson run "really good routes". Tim Bulman too. Dunta can't cover that well but he's put on an island all game. Andre Johnson isn't being targeted 15 times a game because he's not one of the most prolific WR of today's NFL.

McNair said leadership among the players is of the utmost importance.
For real now....who is a leader on this team? Not just amongst the players, I mean to the media and the fans?
AJ might fill the team's need but not the media's. Schaub is quiet until he rips the fans. No one wants to hear from Slaton. Drob isn't a leader and if he is it explains a lot. Mario is no leader. Demeco tries but doesn't seem to have much support. Who is it? KUBIAK?!? No, not Mr. Blame-me

HTown2ATX
12-02-2009, 08:39 AM
Jacoby Jones best position certainly is NOT the bench, watching David Anderson run "really good routes". Tim Bulman too. Dunta can't cover that well but he's put on an island all game. Andre Johnson isn't being targeted 15 times a game because he's not one of the most prolific WR of today's NFL.
For real now....who is a leader on this team? Not just amongst the players, I mean to the media and the fans?
AJ might fill the team's need but not the media's. Schaub is quiet until he rips the fans. No one wants to hear from Slaton. Drob isn't a leader and if he is it explains a lot. Mario is no leader. Demeco tries but doesn't seem to have much support. Who is it? KUBIAK?!? No, not Mr. Blame-me

???

:headhurts:

Sarcasm that I missed maybe??????

dalemurphy
12-02-2009, 08:51 AM
Then he is content with another year of "sucky" football in Htown! McNair needs to grow a "pair" & get a PROVEN head coach! It's this kind of talk from our boss that I wish we had an owner like.....GASP, YIKES......Jerry Jones! :roast:

I get that some of you want Kubiak gone. Possibly that is the best thing for the team. But, just as the article states, a regime change is very disruptive for a football team. Clearly, McNair's primary concern is the football organization. And, thank God, he believes in stability over disruption. Stephanie (Texan Chick) has a nice little blog about that on Chron.com... This isn't a situation like in 2005 when the team was directionless. There is a lot of young talent on this team and many of the pieces are playing well and improving. Can't the "Fire Kubiak Club" at least understand that McNair may want to keep Kubiak, not because of loyalty, but because he thinks it's the best way to move the team forward next year?

Jerry Jones' team has won nothing in 15 years since he blew up his first staff. I'm not sure why you want McNair to follow that model.

dalemurphy
12-02-2009, 08:55 AM
We've lost 6 games, are below .500, and can't hold leads. That = sucky football. You can't consistantly be a punching bag for your divisional opponents. That's exactly what we are. If you can beat the Colts up 17 with them missing Freeney, Jackson, and Sanders, when are you gonna beat them? Seriously.

most teams have those lists at this point in the season:

OD, Pitts, Briesel, Eugene Wilson...

The Texans absolutely choked that game away. No doubt! But, I've been watching teams like NE, Pittsburgh, Tennessee, NYGiants, Philadelphia choke away games all season as well. If those kinds of losses are a measuring stick for the health of a coaching staff/ organization, then what do you make of all those teams? should they clean house too?

HoustonFrog
12-02-2009, 09:09 AM
I get that some of you want Kubiak gone. Possibly that is the best thing for the team. But, just as the article states, a regime change is very disruptive for a football team. Clearly, McNair's primary concern is the football organization. And, thank God, he believes in stability over disruption. Stephanie (Texan Chick) has a nice little blog about that on Chron.com... This isn't a situation like in 2005 when the team was directionless. There is a lot of young talent on this team and many of the pieces are playing well and improving. Can't the "Fire Kubiak Club" at least understand that McNair may want to keep Kubiak, not because of loyalty, but because he thinks it's the best way to move the team forward next year?

Jerry Jones' team has won nothing in 15 years since he blew up his first staff. I'm not sure why you want McNair to follow that model.

And this model is working and showing incredible results?

To me McClain's words were laying the groundwork for another wuss out where even if they compete in a few games he will keep Kubes under the yearly mantra of "did you see them fight those last few games?" I, personally, think the guy isn't sure what to do about football ops and that he will need another helping hand like Reeves to evaluate things. Hell, he is probably calling Charlie.

most teams have those lists at this point in the season:

OD, Pitts, Briesel, Eugene Wilson...

The Texans absolutely choked that game away. No doubt! But, I've been watching teams like NE, Pittsburgh, Tennessee, NYGiants, Philadelphia choke away games all season as well. If those kinds of losses are a measuring stick for the health of a coaching staff/ organization, then what do you make of all those teams? should they clean house too?

Apples and oranges. All of those teams have been wildly successful for years. The Texans have never been successful. You are reaching with your Go-Go Gadet arm here.

Ryan
12-02-2009, 09:23 AM
???

:headhurts:

Sarcasm that I missed maybe??????

idk either. :confused:

dalemurphy
12-02-2009, 09:44 AM
And this model is working and showing incredible results?

To me McClain's words were laying the groundwork for another wuss out where even if they compete in a few games he will keep Kubes under the yearly mantra of "did you see them fight those last few games?" I, personally, think the guy isn't sure what to do about football ops and that he will need another helping hand like Reeves to evaluate things. Hell, he is probably calling Charlie.



Apples and oranges. All of those teams have bene wildly successful for years. The Texans have never been successful. You are reaching with your Go-Go Gadet arm here.


Right. And one of the staples to their success is their stability. Committment in the light of adversity is a key to any successful organization. McNair has to honestly evaluate Kubiak without allowing the recent disappointment to weigh too heavily on his decision. If his evaluation before this season about Kubiak was sound, he has to assess if anything has changed. One disappointing season in which many areas of the team improved, shouldn't be enough to dismiss a coach he had believed in up until this point. The surest way to remain an organization without a winning history is to hit the restart button every few years.

No More 8-8's
12-02-2009, 09:50 AM
Bob McNair really has nothing to complain about.


His team is very profitable. As an owner thats a very important thing. I used to work in the sports industry in the pro level, and believe me, behind the scenes its just like any other business. How much can we bring in this year? As long as the Texans stay profitable, than why rock the boat.

Kaiser Toro
12-02-2009, 09:50 AM
Capers was here one year too long. Carr was here one year too long (actually 5 years too long). Kubiak needs to go, McNair owes it to the majority of his stakeholders.

nero THE zero
12-02-2009, 09:52 AM
Right. And one of the staples to their success is their stability.

Chicken and egg argument.

Are the successful because they're stable or stable because they're successful? If they'd not had a winning season in four seasons I'd bet top dollar they'd blow things up. You know how I know that? Because, we're the only team in the NFL that hasn't either been to the playoffs or changed coaches since 2006.

Runner
12-02-2009, 10:10 AM
Can't the "Fire Kubiak Club" at least understand that McNair may want to keep Kubiak, not because of loyalty, but because he thinks it's the best way to move the team forward next year?


Can't the Kubiak myrmidons at least understand that the trade-off for stability may be continued mediocrity?

I know many people during the offseason tried to convince others, as they themselves were already convinced, that even another 8-8 season would be acceptable if the team showed improvement. Even an improved team with a losing record was touted as acceptable and proof of "doing things the right way" progress.

If this season is an improvement, it is certainly small and probably due to spin as much as anything else. They got rid of Sage and the anchor at defensive coordinator AND added a healthy Schaub. To this point, the team is still mired around .500. Where is the improvement? I know some always predict a 6-0 finish, then a 5-0 finish, etc, and a playoff run next year. These same people can't understand why others don't jump on board with that thinking, even though it has repeatedly and always been proven wrong. Why is Kubiak going to finally get over the hump if he gets one more year? I haven't seen the "In Kubes We Trust" signatures for quite a while, but at this point such hopes rely on belief more than evidence.

I understand that a change in coaching staff involves some risk. However, taking a risk is many times what separates the winners from the losers (sorry, non-winners). Would I risk another average season of the Texans being non-losers for them to be winners? Yes.

There is also a non-zero risk that the team regresses under Kubiak. If that happens people will lament that a change wasn't made earlier. If the decision makers wait for the certainty that comes with hindsight, it is too late.

Texan_Bill
12-02-2009, 10:12 AM
Can't the Kubiak myrmidons at least understand that the trade-off for stability may be continued mediocrity?


:hmmm:

Mr. White
12-02-2009, 10:16 AM
I don't get it. Anybody that tries to make a case for Kubiak to stay has to make excuses for him. I've seen a ton of them this week.

Seems like people are missing the obvious.

The team is no longer improving. When that happens, it's time for a change.

dalemurphy
12-02-2009, 10:20 AM
Chicken and egg argument.

Are the successful because they're stable or stable because they're successful? If they'd not had a winning season in four seasons I'd bet top dollar they'd blow things up. You know how I know that? Because, we're the only team in the NFL that hasn't either been to the playoffs or changed coaches since 2006.

How long was Jeff Fisher with the Oilers/Titans before they made the playoffs?

The Texans were one of the least talented teams I've ever seen back in '06 when Kubiak took over. And, that first season will be his only losing season in his tenure after they win their next three football games. While that isn't the most impressive resume' I've ever seen, I'd say he's been far from a failure of a head coach. We have the youngest team in the NFL and are now one of the more talented ones. We play in a brutal division and still will win at least 9 games this year despite some very difficult losses. If two of those 5 losses had gone the other way, there wouldn't be any pink soap right now. I'm not sure how much blame Kubiak deserves for a few missed FGs and a few ill-timed fumbles.

In 2005, I was actively booing the Texan product in week 2 and calling for Capers' removal. I was ready to replace Richard Smith in '07. In this instance, I think it is way premature to want Kubiak displaced. Good teams have disappointing seasons all the time, it's happening in NE, Pittsburgh, NY this year. I think the Saints had back to back 8 win seasons the past two seasons. I just don't think blowing this thing up is a good idea. I'm all for expressing disappointment and frustration. I'm hugely disappointed. I was expecting 11 wins this year and now I'm praying for 10 and expecting 9. That sucks! But disappointment isn't a reason to remove a coach. That's an emotional reaction. The only way Kubiak should be removed is if a reasoned assessment concludes that a replacement makes this team better than it would be if the staff stayed intact next season. So, if McNair thinks a change makes sense, he'd better have the person in place and not simply fire Kubiak because he's mad we didn't win more games this year.

HoustonFrog
12-02-2009, 10:33 AM
Right. And one of the staples to their success is their stability. Committment in the light of adversity is a key to any successful organization. McNair has to honestly evaluate Kubiak without allowing the recent disappointment to weigh too heavily on his decision. If his evaluation before this season about Kubiak was sound, he has to assess if anything has changed. One disappointing season in which many areas of the team improved, shouldn't be enough to dismiss a coach he had believed in up until this point. The surest way to remain an organization without a winning history is to hit the restart button every few years.

ONE disappointing season. The mantra of "next year is playoffs or bust" has been going on for multiple years. Yet .500 is good enough for some of you. I've seen your Fisher comparison and AGAIN, apples to oranges. You had a team on the move, one that went from Houston, to playing a college stadium, to where they are now.

Also, I'm not getting the string of excuses for Kubiak. You blame the players but he puts the players in there. Chris Brown fumbles on the goal line or can't get in. Well guess what, maybe Chris Brown shouldn't have been the goal line back. Wasted timeouts, playing 2/3 quarters of football, coming out unprepared...all the while having the Ground Hog Day press conference of "it's all on me." Sorry, after awhile, you have to move on. People talk about making strides with the talent. Well most I've heard nationally seem to think that the talent should be farther ahead and there is something missing.

Bill Maas was on 1560 the other day and he said he was with the Chiefs in 1986 or whatever. They had these same issues and then they brought in Marty and they realized that there was discipline in areas that they never even thought about before. I think they are missing that discipline. The scary part is that they may win 2-3, get to .500 and then say they need one more year...and get it. And you'll see the same losses because the accountability isn't there.

Mr. White
12-02-2009, 10:39 AM
The only way Kubiak should be removed is if a reasoned assessment concludes that a replacement makes this team better than it would be if the staff stayed intact next season. So, if McNair thinks a change makes sense, he'd better have the person in place and not simply fire Kubiak because he's mad we didn't win more games this year.

That's exactly the way they've been doing things too. McNair runs this team like a corporation more than a football team when it comes to making changes.

Everyone's been holding up the Patriots as an example lately when defending Kubiak, so I'll use them as an example too. Pete Carroll got 2 years before he got booted.

I'll admit that this was a pretty quick turn, but my point is that successful owners know when to pull the trigger. Stability is for corporations, not football teams.

chicagotexan2
12-02-2009, 10:43 AM
It's time for Mr. McNair to walk up to coach Kubiak and say "You have to answer for Santino, Carlo. Ahh, that little farce you played with my sister. You thought that could fool a McNair? Don't be afraid. No you're out of the family business."

GP
12-02-2009, 10:53 AM
The scary part is that they may win 2-3, get to .500 and then say they need one more year...and get it. And you'll see the same losses because the accountability isn't there.

To me, I have a feeling that this is what's going to happen.

One more season for Gurry Kubiak and the gang.

Fantastic. :truck:

dalemurphy
12-02-2009, 10:56 AM
ONE disappointing season. The mantra of "next year is playoffs or bust" has been going on for multiple years. Yet .500 is good enough for some of you. I've seen your Fisher comparison and AGAIN, apples to oranges. You had a team on the move, one that went from Houston, to playing a college stadium, to where they are now.

Also, I'm not getting the string of excuses for Kubiak. You blame the players but he puts the players in there. Chris Brown fumbles on the goal line or can't get in. Well guess what, maybe Chris Brown shouldn't have been the goal line back. Wasted timeouts, playing 2/3 quarters of football, coming out unprepared...all the while having the Ground Hog Day press conference of "it's all on me." Sorry, after awhile, you have to move on. People talk about making strides with the talent. Well most I've heard nationally seem to think that the talent should be farther ahead and there is something missing.

Bill Maas was on 1560 the other day and he said he was with the Chiefs in 1986 or whatever. They had these same issues and then they brought in Marty and they realized that there was discipline in areas that they never even thought about before. I think they are missing that discipline. The scary part is that they may win 2-3, get to .500 and then say they need one more year...and get it. And you'll see the same losses because the accountability isn't there.


I'm not sure who's mantra you are referring to. This is the first season that we had anything more than the 4th most talented team in the division. So, while I was definitely disappointed with last season's results, it was foolish to expect more than 8 wins for that team. Certainly the 8 wins in '07 was a very impressive coaching job. That was not a talented team. Many of the players on that squad aren't even playing football for the NFL anymore: Vonta Leach, D. Faggins, Greenwood, Weaver, G.Earl, CC Brown, Sage, E Salaam, Flanagan, Bruener, R.Dayne.... Not to mention the fact that AJ was injured for most of the season. If you are going to complain that the coaching staff has underachieved this season, then you need to credit them for that job they did in '07!

By the way, we are one game back in the wild card race. This season isn't over. If they lay an egg at Jacksonville then we can start talking. However, I'm thinking we are three weeks away from talking about a huge matchup in Miami to try and go to 9-6... Remember, we were 5-3 before we just lost three tough games against really good teams. Let's see what happens at Jacksonville, huh?

Hervoyel
12-02-2009, 10:58 AM
And this model is working and showing incredible results?

To me McClain's words were laying the groundwork for another wuss out where even if they compete in a few games he will keep Kubes under the yearly mantra of "did you see them fight those last few games?" I, personally, think the guy isn't sure what to do about football ops and that he will need another helping hand like Reeves to evaluate things. Hell, he is probably calling Charlie.



Apples and oranges. All of those teams have been wildly successful for years. The Texans have never been successful. You are reaching with your Go-Go Gadet arm here.

I'm afraid I agree with Herr Frog on this one. Any team anywhere can choke in a game. The Texans are in the process of trying to choke on them all. Those teams have won, we haven't.

As for Jerry Jones blowing up the Cowboys back in the day I can only say this. Gary Kubiak is no Jimmy Johnson and since the Texans entered the league in 2002 the Cowboys have posted 5 seasons above .500 and will make it 6 with another win this year.

Maybe they haven't been back to the Super Bowl since Switzer took Jimmy's old team there in 1995 but for most of the Texans existence Cowboys fans have had one thing we haven't even sniffed yet. That would be real justified "hope". I'd trade their last 8 seasons for ours in a heartbeat.

HoustonFrog
12-02-2009, 11:06 AM
I'm afraid I agree with Herr Frog on this one. Any team anywhere can choke in a game. The Texans are in the process of trying to choke on them all. Those teams have won, we haven't.

As for Jerry Jones blowing up the Cowboys back in the day I can only say this. Gary Kubiak is no Jimmy Johnson and since the Texans entered the league in 2002 the Cowboys have posted 5 seasons above .500 and will make it 6 with another win this year.

Maybe they haven't been back to the Super Bowl since Switzer took Jimmy's old team there in 1995 but for most of the Texans existence Cowboys fans have had one thing we haven't even sniffed yet. That would be real justified "hope". I'd trade their last 8 seasons for ours in a heartbeat.

Well said Herv.

Right. I'm severely disappointed with JJ in areas of the team and I can see the writing on the wall some seasons but there has been hope and a 13-3 record and some winning. Just not where I was used to growing up and in the early to mid 90s.

Back on the Texans, I would be more patient with a team if I didn't see the same mistakes over and over. It is Carr Part Dos to me. How many times did you have to watch a guy stare down receivers or turtle shell or not be able to just throw it out of bounds before you were like "hey, he doesn't get it." Well how many times do you have to see Gary mismanage a clock or be too conservative, or have guys in the wrong place at the wrong time before you have to say.."maybe he just doesn't get the HC thing."

TimeKiller
12-02-2009, 11:08 AM
???

:headhurts:

Sarcasm that I missed maybe??????
Sarcasm that you totally picked up?

Andre Johnson is, in fact, one of the most talented WRs to play in this decade. Why he gets called to run a quick slant, something completely unstoppable and usually gains 7 yards, once every 4 games is something I will NEVER understand. 4 receptions for Andre Johnson is a joke, for him, for the offense, the team, the coaches and the fans. Get the MAN the ball. Count on the Rainmaker.

disaacks3
12-02-2009, 11:14 AM
Everyone else has taken their stab at this, here's my take...


McNair would really like to keep Kubiak, as he loves stability
Despite massive improvements to "talent", still finding ways to lose games
McNair seeing what fans see, a team that can't play 2 halves of football.
If team plays 2 halves of football the rest of the way and still loses - Kubiak stays.
If team gets up again big and loses due to shoddy 2nd half performance, Kubes is gone.
Kubes not guaranteed returning unless 9-7 or better finish.
.

nero THE zero
12-02-2009, 11:15 AM
Bill Maas was on 1560 the other day and he said he was with the Chiefs in 1986 or whatever. They had these same issues and then they brought in Marty and they realized that there was discipline in areas that they never even thought about before. I think they are missing that discipline. The scary part is that they may win 2-3, get to .500 and then say they need one more year...and get it. And you'll see the same losses because the accountability isn't there.

Yep, I heard that interview as well. It's all I can think about when I hear the players talk about how it's mostly them not executing.

I also heard a guy call into 790 who had just moved here from Indy, and he said this team reminded him of Indy's team the year Mora was fired. I don't know how apt the comparison is, but it's just another instance where a new coach comes in and flips the record. I think a new coach would have the same Schottenheimer/Dungy/Gruden effect here.

houstonspartan
12-02-2009, 11:31 AM
Bob McNair really has nothing to complain about.


His team is very profitable. As an owner thats a very important thing. I used to work in the sports industry in the pro level, and believe me, behind the scenes its just like any other business. How much can we bring in this year? As long as the Texans stay profitable, than why rock the boat.

I'm going to pretend I didn't read this.

Too late. I did.

Newsflash: If the team becomes a powerhouse winner, guess what will happen to profits?

As angry as I was that McNair raised ticket prices this year, I also said that if the Texans hit the playoffs, I'd be willing to accept a moderate increase this year.

Get it?

Second Honeymoon
12-02-2009, 11:38 AM
I don't know how to read McNair's statement but I think the fact that there was a statement was a statement in itself. If he didn't really care or was just going to stay status quo, he wouldn't have said anything.

The fact that Cowher has had some very calculated wording lately regarding his status as a candidate makes me feel pretty good. He may just use Houston to increase his preferred offer from Carolina though so we need to make sure he is committed if interest is confirmed. The problem is that Cowher has class and isn't going to campaign for jobs while other people have them. That is being a scab and is intolerable.

All we have to do is send an informal feeler to him to basically ask him if the job became available would he be interested. That is it. If he is, you gotta consider dropping Kubes for Cowher even if we reach the vaunted 8-8 pinnacle. It's not like bringing in Cowher is going to bring in all this instability. To the contrary, its going to put everyone on notice that there is a new sheriff in town and its time to start making plays or losing jobs.

Maybe their common Carolina roots may help bring Bill here. Fox is probably gone but does Cowher want to go to the Panthers with their current team? They got the RB position taken care of but no QB, subpar OL, aging or ineffective WR corps and did I mention no QB. The Texans have young starters, no huge cap issues due to RFA options in uncapped year, and a full allotment of draft picks.

He could put his stamp on this city but only if he wants the challenge 100%. Same effort and dedication he showed with the Steelers. I don't want a kinder and gentler Bill...and something tells me I wouldn't be disappointed. Other positive attractive things for Cowher are no state tax, a decent economy, great housing prices, decent climate especially during football season and lots of quality schools for his kids if he would move them here.

houstonspartan
12-02-2009, 11:45 AM
I don't know how to read McNair's statement but I think the fact that there was a statement was a statement in itself. If he didn't really care or was just going to stay status quo, he wouldn't have said anything.

The fact that Cowher has had some very calculated wording lately regarding his status as a candidate makes me feel pretty good. He may just use Houston to increase his preferred offer from Carolina though so we need to make sure he is committed if interest is confirmed. The problem is that Cowher has class and isn't going to campaign for jobs while other people have them. That is being a scab and is intolerable.

All we have to do is send an informal feeler to him to basically ask him if the job became available would he be interested. That is it. If he is, you gotta consider dropping Kubes for Cowher even if we reach the vaunted 8-8 pinnacle. It's not like bringing in Cowher is going to bring in all this instability. To the contrary, its going to put everyone on notice that there is a new sheriff in town and its time to start making plays or losing jobs.

Maybe their common Carolina roots may help bring Bill here. Fox is probably gone but does Cowher want to go to the Panthers with their current team? They got the RB position taken care of but no QB, subpar OL, aging or ineffective WR corps and did I mention no QB. The Texans have young starters, no huge cap issues due to RFA options in uncapped year, and a full allotment of draft picks.

He could put his stamp on this city but only if he wants the challenge 100%. Same effort and dedication he showed with the Steelers. I don't want a kinder and gentler Bill...and something tells me I wouldn't be disappointed. Other positive attractive things for Cowher are no state tax, a decent economy, great housing prices, decent climate especially during football season and lots of quality schools for his kids if he would move them here.


You know that old saying about how most business deals are done on the golf course? It's true. Not necessarily golf courses, per se, but most deals get done behind closed doors. I am willing to bet you that the Texans will reach out to Cowher and have a chat. We probably won't know about it, because it will be kept an extreme secret.

Double Barrel
12-02-2009, 11:49 AM
I'm giving up hope on Cowher coming here. That would require a bold decision, and Bob McNair has shown that he is a play-it-safe owner. Capers, HWSNBN, Casserly, Richard Smith: all names of former Texans employees that should have been let go at least a year earlier than they were. And most likely Kubiak's name will be added to that list in the future when McNair finally realizes that some coaches are better suited for coordinator roles than head coaching roles.

None of us can really read McNair's mind, but honestly, I will be shocked if he lets Kubiak go this year. I honestly think McNair believes it's on the players, and we are just a couple of leaders away from turning the corner. Maybe he's right. We'll have the 2010 season to find out. JMO

Second Honeymoon
12-02-2009, 12:17 PM
I'm giving up hope on Cowher coming here. That would require a bold decision, and Bob McNair has shown that he is a play-it-safe owner. Capers, HWSNBN, Casserly, Richard Smith: all names of former Texans employees that should have been let go at least a year earlier than they were. And most likely Kubiak's name will be added to that list in the future when McNair finally realizes that some coaches are better suited for coordinator roles than head coaching roles.

None of us can really read McNair's mind, but honestly, I will be shocked if he lets Kubiak go this year. I honestly think McNair believes it's on the players, and we are just a couple of leaders away from turning the corner. Maybe he's right. We'll have the 2010 season to find out. JMO

Wierd. NFL Network just mentioned the McNair statement on its NFLN Now Update. An Omen?

If he thinks we need leaders then why doesn't he do something about it and bring some in...starting with the Head Coach. Rogers, Sharper, Haynesworth, Ray Lewis, amongst others were out there available to help our team. Instead, we overpay Antonio Smith who although he hasn't played poorly of late he has been unprofessional and has made some huge penalties. That sure isn't leadership.

Just bring more people in that cant stand losing like Cushing, Pollard, Ryans, Winston, Wilson, and of course AJ. Cushing is going to have be the leader of this team along with Ryans, Pollard, and hopefully one day Mario.

houstonspartan
12-02-2009, 12:55 PM
I'm giving up hope on Cowher coming here. That would require a bold decision, and Bob McNair has shown that he is a play-it-safe owner. Capers, HWSNBN, Casserly, Richard Smith: all names of former Texans employees that should have been let go at least a year earlier than they were. And most likely Kubiak's name will be added to that list in the future when McNair finally realizes that some coaches are better suited for coordinator roles than head coaching roles.

None of us can really read McNair's mind, but honestly, I will be shocked if he lets Kubiak go this year. I honestly think McNair believes it's on the players, and we are just a couple of leaders away from turning the corner. Maybe he's right. We'll have the 2010 season to find out. JMO


My concern about getting Cowher isn't about McNair. I think he has the guts to pull the trigger and go after him.

My concern is regarding his potential price tag. Call me nuts, but $10 million per year for a coach just seems like too much money.

Second Honeymoon
12-02-2009, 01:01 PM
My concern about getting Cowher isn't about McNair. I think he has the guts to pull the trigger and go after him.

My concern is regarding his potential price tag. Call me nuts, but $10 million per year for a coach just seems like too much money.

its a lot of money but we have paid Carr piles of money to not play for us, we just paid Cunnta err Dunta around $10million to play like crap, we paid Boselli a bunch of money to not play for us. Why not pay someone who can actually effect change in this organization. Kubiak has been alright but he just isn't a playoff caliber coach. Its pretty obvious after nearly 4 years. Now if they win 5 in a row, that shows that maybe there is hope, but it aint gonna happen.

We need change.

Mr. White
12-02-2009, 01:03 PM
My concern about getting Cowher isn't about McNair. I think he has the guts to pull the trigger and go after him.

My concern is regarding his potential price tag. Call me nuts, but $10 million per year for a coach just seems like too much money.

That aspect doesn't bother me one bit.

Bob's sold enough PSLs, tickets, parking passes, overpriced crappy food and flat beer to deliver a winner.

I'm sure he's got it in the bank.

houstonspartan
12-02-2009, 01:07 PM
That aspect doesn't bother me one bit.

Bob's sold enough PSLs, tickets, parking passes, overpriced crappy food and flat beer to deliver a winner.

I'm sure he's got it in the bank.

True. I'm a PSL holder, and I have spent a TON of money on this team.

And, I have a parking pass, and let me tell you, the parking passes are nice, but they are a huge rip off. The price went up like 25 percent this year.

Double Barrel
12-02-2009, 01:28 PM
My concern about getting Cowher isn't about McNair. I think he has the guts to pull the trigger and go after him.

My concern is regarding his potential price tag. Call me nuts, but $10 million per year for a coach just seems like too much money.

yeah, it is a lot of money, but the excitement about Cowher would put fans in those sold-out seats, and fans actually in attendance spend money.

I just don't think it's McNair's M.O. when you look at his history the past 8 years. I hope I'm wrong, but I fear that I'm right.

dalemurphy
12-02-2009, 02:00 PM
Here's the real question, I think. And, it's one that I really don't know the answer to:

Do we doubt Kubiak because he's not a good coach or simply because we haven't experienced success and therefore he is guilty by association?... Now, I don't mean that he's not responsible as the head coach for the product on the field. However, let's talk about what we think he lacks to be a successful head coach, because this is the first season that this team has underachieved.

1. Time/game management. It's been a problem from time to time. I think he's been much better this year, though. Every fan of every great coach has questioned the decision-making of their head coach. Obviously, look at Belichek a couple weeks ago. I have Steeler fans that were furious with Tomlin's decisions and Cowher's before that, until they won Superbowls.

2. Inability to Finish: Maybe there is something here but I just don't know. I find it endearing that he struggles to watch game-deciding field goals. I do as well. However, possibly that is an issue or represents an issue that is a weakness for him. I don't know.

3. Preparation?/ Team Readiness: I don't really think this is a problem. This team has seemed fairly prepared and ready to play every week. All teams have weeks when they come out flat. NO almost lost to St. Louis a couple weeks ago. Phillie lost to Oakland. So, I don't think he's weak in this area.

4. Scheme/ Philosophy: Jeremy Rice and others have made some strong arguments about his insistence and stubborness with the ZBS, but I think most NFL people have a great deal of respect for his offensive mind and he seems to have made a solid choice for DC.

5. W/L results- We are about where the Giants were in '07 when they won their Superbowl. The season isn't over yet and there is a reality to deal with that we are in a very difficult division. I would argue that the team overachieved in W/L in both '06 and '07 and met expectations last season.


If you watch enough NFL, you see a lot of stupid coaching decisions... often by winning coaches. I've seen guys like Holmgren and Belichek make some of the most bone-headed decisions... It's possible that Kubiak is on the verge of turning this team into something special. If he's not the right man for the job and he's left to coach them into mediocrity next season, that would be ashame. However, if he is the right man and he's removed one season prematurely, that would be pretty bad as well. I think, as fans, we are letting years of disappointment cloud our judgement right now. I'm not saying he's not at fault or that he should stay, but I think we need to see how the last month plays out and understand that good coaches have disappointing seasons sometimes.

Second Honeymoon
12-02-2009, 02:21 PM
everyone makes mistakes. its not the mistakes, its just the same mistakes over and over

the same failures over and over and nothing has changed. in fact its gotten worse this year.

also how can someone overachieve at 7-9 in 2006 or 8-8 in 2007 and then meet expectations at 8-8 in 2008? what is the difference?

dalemurphy
12-02-2009, 02:32 PM
everyone makes mistakes. its not the mistakes, its just the same mistakes over and over

the same failures over and over and nothing has changed. in fact its gotten worse this year.

also how can someone overachieve at 7-9 in 2006 or 8-8 in 2007 and then meet expectations at 8-8 in 2008? what is the difference?

Talent!

The '06 team was almost talentless, except for the crop of rookies that Kubiak played a huge part in drafting and developing. The '07 team wasn't very talented either and was decimated with injuries yet still won 8 games with guys like Faggins and V.Hutchins starting at CB, Sage starting at QB and AJ on the bench with an injury... Oh yeah, and with Ron Dayne starting at RB with guys like Flanagan, E. Salaam blocking for him.

The team Kubiak inherited after '05 had about the same amount of talent as the Detroit Lion team that Caldwell inherited this year.

disaacks3
12-02-2009, 02:43 PM
3. Preparation?/ Team Readiness: I don't really think this is a problem. This team has seemed fairly prepared and ready to play every week. All teams have weeks when they come out flat. NO almost lost to St. Louis a couple weeks ago. Phillie lost to Oakland. So, I don't think he's weak in this area.

5. W/L results- We are about where the Giants were in '07 when they won their Superbowl. The season isn't over yet and there is a reality to deal with that we are in a very difficult division. I would argue that the team overachieved in W/L in both '06 and '07 and met expectations last season. These are the two I disagree with.

Prep - This team has come out FLAT Offensively most games this year. We can't seem to get a FULL game out of these guys, except maybe the 3 quarters we got vs. the Bengals. If you aren't ready to play BOTH halves, it's still a critical coaching failure in my book.

W/L - We're UNDER .500 with exactly one win over a division opponent. coulda-woulda-shoulda doesn't cut it (usually) at the NFL HC level. I'm a HUGE fan of Gary Kubiak, but if he keeps saying "that's on me", then he might just get called on that claim by the time this season is out.

steelbtexan
12-02-2009, 02:49 PM
Spot On

If Kubes stays I'm O.K. with it.

If Kubes is fired I'm O.K. with it

steelbtexan
12-02-2009, 02:53 PM
Dale I think you mean Schwartz.

He's the Lions HC

Second Honeymoon
12-02-2009, 02:59 PM
Talent!

The '06 team was almost talentless, except for the crop of rookies that Kubiak played a huge part in drafting and developing. The '07 team wasn't very talented either and was decimated with injuries yet still won 8 games with guys like Faggins and V.Hutchins starting at CB, Sage starting at QB and AJ on the bench with an injury... Oh yeah, and with Ron Dayne starting at RB with guys like Flanagan, E. Salaam blocking for him.

The team Kubiak inherited after '05 had about the same amount of talent as the Detroit Lion team that Caldwell inherited this year.

every team has talent. in 2006 we had Carr so 7 wins WAS overachieving but to say that 8-8 is overachieving in 2007 or that 8-8 in 2008 was meeting expectations is just ridiculous. Just like 5-6 isn't meeting expectations this year. Beating the Rams and the Raiders and the Bills is one thing, but how about we beat a decent team for once. The Bengals game was great and showed that the talent is there. Kubiak just can't get the people to play up to their talent.

Screw it, Kubiak just sucks as a Head Coach. There, I said it.

Maddict5
12-02-2009, 03:05 PM
Reading through it a second time, its not quite as bad. The 'right now' comment is still pretty brutal but he holds the players feet to the fire as much as kubiak and the coaching staff. the whole '10-6' though....

....what has Bob been smoking? I would love to see it happen but that ain't happenin'. no way no how.

Just bring Dan Reeves in to tell you whatever you want to hear, Bob. It worked so well the first time.

. and why the hell do people keep saying this is so impossible? we've gone toe to toe with every good team we've played this year- including blowing two games against a 10-0 team.

the jags game is a big one but they're not great either and mathis is missing. after that we have two of the easiest games of the year in st louis & seatlle. we win those and we're a confident 8-6 team facing into a miami team that just lost to buffalo ie winnable. then we have the pats, who may or may not be resting players. either way, we gave the colts a good game and they beat the pats so i wont be in fear of them at all.

i find it incredible how the majority of fans have quit on this team & coach already. the last 3 games have sucked no doubt but nobody ever said growing pains were fun. i still pretty confident this team will go on a run like last year and finish with a winning record. if that makes me a shiny happy fan then so be it but we'll see come january who was foolish.

thunderkyss
12-02-2009, 03:10 PM
everything was on the line the last two weeks. This team will step up once ousted...that's how we have done it in the Kubiak era and he has given us no reason to believe otherwise.

I understand that, but we haven't been ousted yet.

Every game this month will mean something, until we lose another one. Every game we're still fighting for something. These aren't meaningless games yet.

If we are 9-6 when we play the Patriots, that will be the most meaningful game we've ever played that late in the season. That game may have play-off implications for us.

It may be a if we win we are in game.

It may be we're in if we win & Jacksonville loses.

It may be a we're in if we win & Jacksonvilee, Baltimore, Tennessee & Denver loses.

But it would still be a meaningful game.

I understand we lost three games that would have been really, really nice for us to have won, but we didn't.

That just makes the next 6 games even more important.

HJam72
12-02-2009, 03:22 PM
You guys are starting to talk and complain about seasons and records that occurred before Kubiak was coaching this team. That is part of why I'm still (barely) defending him. We're tired of going 7-9, etc! 8 seasons and no playoffs! People, you can't blame Kubiak for the Capers era.

We can't expect Kubiak to have this team better than the undefeated Colts or undefeated-when-VY-starts Titans yet. Before we played 3 games against those teams, he had us at 5-3. He just might have us at 9-6 when we play the Patriots. I wouldn't bet money on it, but it is possible.

TexCanada
12-02-2009, 03:23 PM
I understand that, but we haven't been ousted yet.

Every game this month will mean something, until we lose another one. Every game we're still fighting for something. These aren't meaningless games yet.

This is exactly it. I think Kubiak's job is on the line in Jax this weekend, as are our playoff hopes.

GuerillaBlack
12-02-2009, 03:24 PM
every team has talent. in 2006 we had Carr so 7 wins WAS overachieving but to say that 8-8 is overachieving in 2007 or that 8-8 in 2008 was meeting expectations is just ridiculous. Just like 5-6 isn't meeting expectations this year. Beating the Rams and the Raiders and the Bills is one thing, but how about we beat a decent team for once. The Bengals game was great and showed that the talent is there. Kubiak just can't get the people to play up to their talent.

Screw it, Kubiak just sucks as a Head Coach. There, I said it.

We went 6-10 in 2006, winning our last game against the Browns I think. Then we started off 2-0 in 2007 and went to 8-8. Started of 0-4 in 2008, and went on to 8-8. I'd say last season was a failure (though Ike played a BIG part), but THIS season is a true failure. Kubiak sucks.

Honoring Earl 34
12-02-2009, 03:27 PM
I understand that, but we haven't been ousted yet.

Every game this month will mean something, until we lose another one. Every game we're still fighting for something. These aren't meaningless games yet.

If we are 9-6 when we play the Patriots, that will be the most meaningful game we've ever played that late in the season. That game may have play-off implications for us.

It may be a if we win we are in game.

It may be we're in if we win & Jacksonville loses.

It may be a we're in if we win & Jacksonvilee, Baltimore, Tennessee & Denver loses.

But it would still be a meaningful game.

I understand we lost three games that would have been really, really nice for us to have won, but we didn't.

That just makes the next 6 games even more important.

I don't put much stock in the last 5 games because they play two bad teams and NE may throw out the scrubs . They spit the bit in the big games this year so if they finish 9-7 ... it's like drinking near beer .

Runner
12-02-2009, 03:39 PM
. and why the hell do people keep saying this is so impossible?


Mainly because the past is a better predictor of the future than hopes and dreams.


i find it incredible how the majority of fans have quit on this team & coach already.

Being realistic about the team's chances isn't the same as quitting on it.

Scooter
12-02-2009, 03:43 PM
Wierd. NFL Network just mentioned the McNair statement on its NFLN Now Update. An Omen?

If he thinks we need leaders then why doesn't he do something about it and bring some in...starting with the Head Coach. Rogers, Sharper, Haynesworth, Ray Lewis, amongst others were out there available to help our team. Instead, we overpay Antonio Smith who although he hasn't played poorly of late he has been unprofessional and has made some huge penalties. That sure isn't leadership.

Just bring more people in that cant stand losing like Cushing, Pollard, Ryans, Winston, Wilson, and of course AJ. Cushing is going to have be the leader of this team along with Ryans, Pollard, and hopefully one day Mario.

this is what i'd like to see addressed as much or more than anything. i've been a heavy supporter of kubiak's but i think i'll just keep my mouth shut on that for a while, because i do see the same flaws that the pink soap club does. what i'm disliking however is our key offseason signings being second tier stars like antonio smith, anthony weaver, jacques reeves, ahman green, etc etc who are brought in for too much and provide predictable results.

what this team needs is leadership as mcnair mentioned, but a lot of it needs to be between the lines - that need cant be provided by rookie brian cushing or speak softly andre johnson or try hard veteran jeff zgonina or still learning mario williams. we need proven probowl veterans who own their area on the field and own the lookerroom and make everyone else around them better. tony gonzales, ray lewis, casey hampton, jeff saturday and such are who we need to target as an elite player who provides age, experience, leadership, and talent - we dont have a player on the roster with every quality.

if we're not going to bring in a player of that magnitude, and build exclusively through the draft and young "potential" second tier free agents, we're going to have these unpredictable games and unpredictable seasons. i have no problem with that route because when you look at the roster we've built we have a very bright future if we stay the course. staying the course however means exactly what we have now - lots of frustration and almosts and "coulda, shoulda, woulda" as our home grown players like demeco and mario and owen daniels and the rest mature into their roles and everything clicks into place. this is where the decision to kubiak needs to be more than a knee-jerk decision ... are these young players we've built our entire roster around going to be better or worse off by bringing in a new coach and system?

Maddict5
12-02-2009, 03:47 PM
Mainly because the past is a better predictor of the future than hopes and dreams.


right. didnt this team go 5-1 to finish last year? is it totally outlandish to think this texans team can beat the jags, rams, hawks & fins to set up a huge showdown week 17?

TexCanada
12-02-2009, 03:50 PM
this is what i'd like to see addressed as much or more than anything. i've been a heavy supporter of kubiak's but i think i'll just keep my mouth shut on that for a while, because i do see the same flaws that the pink soap club does. what i'm disliking however is our key offseason signings being second tier stars like antonio smith, anthony weaver, jacques reeves, ahman green, etc etc who are brought in for too much and provide predictable results.

what this team needs is leadership as mcnair mentioned, but a lot of it needs to be between the lines - that need cant be provided by rookie brian cushing or speak softly andre johnson or try hard veteran jeff zgonina or still learning mario williams. we need proven probowl veterans who own their area on the field and own the lookerroom and make everyone else around them better. tony gonzales, ray lewis, casey hampton, jeff saturday and such are who we need to target as an elite player who provides age, experience, leadership, and talent - we dont have a player on the roster with every quality.

if we're not going to bring in a player of that magnitude, and build exclusively through the draft and young "potential" second tier free agents, we're going to have these unpredictable games and unpredictable seasons. i have no problem with that route because when you look at the roster we've built we have a very bright future if we stay the course. staying the course however means exactly what we have now - lots of frustration and almosts and "coulda, shoulda, woulda" as our home grown players like demeco and mario and owen daniels and the rest mature into their roles and everything clicks into place. this is where the decision to kubiak needs to be more than a knee-jerk decision ... are these young players we've built our entire roster around going to be better or worse off by bringing in a new coach and system?


I agree. I said in an earlier post that we would probably be better off signing a leader like Denver did with Dawkins. A leader at FS for our defense, and C for our offense would make a huge difference for this team.

Pantherstang84
12-02-2009, 03:59 PM
I agree. I said in an earlier post that we would probably be better off signing a leader like Denver did with Dawkins. A leader at FS for our defense, and C for our offense would make a huge difference for this team.

I'm on board with this. I think veteran player leadership is something this team desperately needs. Someone who will grab a teammate by the face mask and tell them, "Look Dog. You can't do that no more. You've got to nut up and get it done."

Runner
12-02-2009, 04:03 PM
Mainly because the past is a better predictor of the future than hopes and dreams.


right. didnt this team go 5-1 to finish last year? is it totally outlandish to think this texans team can beat the jags, rams, hawks & fins to set up a huge showdown week 17?

It's far less outlandish to think the Texans will have a defeat within the last five games, especially if their playoff hopes remain alive. How many times have the Texans gone 5-0? How many times have they beat four teams "they should win against" without blowing one? How many times have they lost "the most important game in franchise history"? At some point this type of run and big wins will happen. I doubt it will be now.

=================

Does the team even think they can do it? After many game Kubiak admits he didn't have the team prepared or got away from what they need to do to win. McNair has told everyone the players lack the leadership to succeed and quite often mess up Kubiak's best laid plans.

None of this inspires confidence in me.

TexCanada
12-02-2009, 04:05 PM
I'm on board with this. I think veteran player leadership is something this team desperately needs. Someone who will grab a teammate by the face mask and tell them, "Look Dog. You can't do that no more. You've got to nut up and get it done."

Exactly. I think we have a lot of players on our team with the ability to "nut up and get it done", they just need a friendly reminder and some confidence in their own game.

We need a vet who cares more about winning than personal achievements (D-Rob).

badboy
12-02-2009, 04:09 PM
I don't put much stock in the last 5 games because they play two bad teams and NE may throw out the scrubs . They spit the bit in the big games this year so if they finish 9-7 ... it's like drinking near beer .Why would NE give us a W? They seem to have played hard each game historically. e may beat them but I don't think they will pull the starters unless they are way ahead.

Double Barrel
12-02-2009, 04:33 PM
You guys are starting to talk and complain about seasons and records that occurred before Kubiak was coaching this team. That is part of why I'm still (barely) defending him. We're tired of going 7-9, etc! 8 seasons and no playoffs! People, you can't blame Kubiak for the Capers era.

The history of this franchise is relevant simply because this team needs a head coach that has the will and experience to fight against the losing / choking atmosphere that seems to permeate 1 Reliant Park.

While the first four seasons is certainly not the fault of Kubiak - and I have yet to see anyone try to blame him for those years - the past four seasons of Kubiak are revealing of what kind of HC he is and what he can and cannot do.

It is obvious that he can install a 'finesse' offense that is great between the 20s. But it is also obvious that he feels fine about hiring inexperienced people as GM, OC, DC, and certain positions on the team. He also seems unable to inspire the team for big games and seems incapable of managing four solid quarters of football.

While the players do share the blame since they actually play the game, you can still trace the origin of those player to Houston via Kubiak.

The point is that 4-12+6-10+7-9+2-14+6-10+8-8+8-8+5-6 = something, mainly a history of subpar football and no winning record. Kubiak is now just as much a part of that as Capers at this point.

We can't expect Kubiak to have this team better than the undefeated Colts or undefeated-when-VY-starts Titans yet. Before we played 3 games against those teams, he had us at 5-3. He just might have us at 9-6 when we play the Patriots. I wouldn't bet money on it, but it is possible.

What I get from your statement is to lower our expectations so our disappointment is that much less.

Why can't we expect them to beat the Colts or Titans??? That's just a statement of Kubiak Koolaide there, man, because before this season the overwhelming majority of fans were screaming playoffs or bust. Well guess what? We are looking like bust right now.

thunderkyss
12-02-2009, 05:11 PM
if we're not going to bring in a player of that magnitude, and build exclusively through the draft and young "potential" second tier free agents, we're going to have these unpredictable games and unpredictable seasons. i have no problem with that route because when you look at the roster we've built we have a very bright future if we stay the course. staying the course however means exactly what we have now - lots of frustration and almosts and "coulda, shoulda, woulda" as our home grown players like demeco and mario and owen daniels and the rest mature into their roles and everything clicks into place. this is where the decision to kubiak needs to be more than a knee-jerk decision ... are these young players we've built our entire roster around going to be better or worse off by bringing in a new coach and system?

Good point.

If this is what Kubiak sat down with McNair & laid out as our blueprint over the next 4 years, when he was hired, then sat with him after the 2006 season to explain where we were on track, where we were off track, then again after 2007 & 2008... I can't see McNair getting rid of him now.

& McNair's comments, addressing the players responsibility & lack of leadership developing among that group makes me believe he understands exactly what he's got.

Expecting to be in the play-offs this season, not withstanding. Had Mario, Schaub, Andre, Slaton, Okoye, Demeco, OD developed true leadership among the team, we'd be in the play-offs easily.

thunderkyss
12-02-2009, 05:19 PM
Does the team even think they can do it? After many game Kubiak admits he didn't have the team prepared or got away from what they need to do to win.

I've always thought the coaches tell the media one thing, & the players something else. That's the way it should be. Sure, we'd like to know what's going on in the locker room.... But it's really none of our business.
McNair talks about accountability in the media, I can't imagine he isn't tearing into some butt in the locker room, & we really don't need to know that.

McNair has told everyone the players lack the leadership to succeed and quite often mess up Kubiak's best laid plans.

None of this inspires confidence in me.

you never know what it's going to take to inspire confidence. Maybe our guys thought McNair had their backs..... maybe they thought they were putting out enough... maybe they thought they were meeting the bar.. Now they know. It would be nice to see how they react.

I also feel that McNair shouldn't have said as much as he did..... but I understand the media blitz. They ask you one question, and you're picking your words so that you don't get boxed into one corner, & next thing you know, you're boxed in another corner all together.

Mr. White
12-03-2009, 08:10 AM
No link.

I just heard it LZ address this on 1560 this morning.

Mike Lombardi told Lance that he talked to someone close to Bob McNair. He said that it would take a huge collapse in order for him to make a change.

He said that Bob would put up with another 8-8 season just because he doesn't like to make changes.

Kaiser Toro
12-03-2009, 09:16 AM
No link.

I just heard it LZ address this on 1560 this morning.

Mike Lombardi told Lance that he talked to someone close to Bob McNair. He said that it would take a huge collapse in order for him to make a change.

He said that Bob would put up with another 8-8 season just because he doesn't like to make changes.

Thanks for sharing, but in my opinion there needs to be a whisper campaign for the players and coaches, and vendors for the remaining two home games.

If McNair does not like change then I will stop wasting my time with surveys.

Mr. White
12-03-2009, 09:36 AM
Thanks for sharing, but in my opinion there needs to be a whisper campaign for the players and coaches, and vendors for the remaining two home games.

If McNair does not like change then I will stop wasting my time with surveys.

This just tells me that the guy is risk-averse. While that philosophy works in running a public corporation with stockholders, it doesn't work in running a business where his fans are his stockholders.

Who's to blame again? The players or the coaches?

I'll go with the owner.

The coaches and the players are working for a corporate philosophy of stability instead of a boss that holds people accountable.

GuerillaBlack
12-03-2009, 09:47 AM
No link.

I just heard it LZ address this on 1560 this morning.

Mike Lombardi told Lance that he talked to someone close to Bob McNair. He said that it would take a huge collapse in order for him to make a change.

He said that Bob would put up with another 8-8 season just because he doesn't like to make changes.

I hope this isn't true. McNair is too passive.

Mr. White
12-03-2009, 09:55 AM
I hope this isn't true. McNair is too passive.

And it explains a lot.

They say that an organization takes on the personality of it's leader. I thought that was Kubiak's personality we've been seeing on the field.

Looks like it goes higher up than that.

infantrycak
12-03-2009, 10:39 AM
And it explains a lot.

They say that an organization takes on the personality of it's leader. I thought that was Kubiak's personality we've been seeing on the field.

Looks like it goes higher up than that.

Then I guess the Redskins have won several Super Bowls under Dan Snyder - oops, no they haven't.

houstonspartan
12-03-2009, 10:47 AM
No link.

I just heard it LZ address this on 1560 this morning.

Mike Lombardi told Lance that he talked to someone close to Bob McNair. He said that it would take a huge collapse in order for him to make a change.

He said that Bob would put up with another 8-8 season just because he doesn't like to make changes.

I'm not doubting that's what you heard on the radio. But, I am doubting the sourcing. That person close to McNair may be wrong. It's possible that that person may assume that McNair won't make a change unless there's a collapse because maybe McNair has seemed careful in his other business dealings.

Seriously, to me, his comments to the Chronicle were to the point. In my opinion, he clearly put Kubiak on notice.

From a business standpoint, McNair can't afford any more mediocrity. The fanbase is getting restless, especially those of us with season tix.

Double Barrel
12-03-2009, 10:52 AM
No link.

I just heard it LZ address this on 1560 this morning.

Mike Lombardi told Lance that he talked to someone close to Bob McNair. He said that it would take a huge collapse in order for him to make a change.

He said that Bob would put up with another 8-8 season just because he doesn't like to make changes.

This does not surprise me at all. It is actually what I have expected, and barring an 8 game losing streak to end the season, Kubiak will be our HC next season.

McNair clearly believes that the coaching staff is putting the players in position to win and it's on the players for not performing on the field. A solid case can be made for that perspective, although I tend to think the overall team attitude (or lack of) reflects on the coaching staff.

Kubiak will be back next year, so we might as well get used to that fact and accept that our owner chooses mediocrity over disruption and change everytime he arrives at that crossroads.

Mr. White
12-03-2009, 10:59 AM
Then I guess the Redskins have won several Super Bowls under Dan Snyder - oops, no they haven't.

No but the Patriots have been to several Super Bowls under Bob Kraft. They even won a few.

It took him 3 years to pull the plug on Pete Carroll and he had better records than we've ever had.

How many years does it take to determine that we're stuck with a guy that can't get us over the hump?

infantrycak
12-03-2009, 11:15 AM
No but the Patriots have been to several Super Bowls under Bob Kraft. They even won a few.

It took him 3 years to pull the plug on Pete Carroll and he had better records than we've ever had.

How many years does it take to determine that we're stuck with a guy that can't get us over the hump?

Poor example. Carroll took over an 11-5 team and every year their record got worse.

houstonspartan
12-03-2009, 11:17 AM
For the Tennessee game, McNair had Bum Phillips and other football greats and executives in attendance.

The result? His team embarrassed him.

For the Indy game, he had George Bush Sr. in his suite during the game.

The result? His team embarrassed him.

When I saw Peyton Manning say, after the game on Sunday, that he "spotted us" 17 points, I was so embarrassed I think my face turned red.

I know that if I, as a season ticket holder, was embarrassed to be a fan, I'm sure that McNair must have been downright humiliated.

I just don't think it's as simple as "McNair will bring Kubiak back." I think McNair has put Gary on notice, and may fire him regardless of this season's outcome.

GP
12-03-2009, 11:24 AM
This does not surprise me at all. It is actually what I have expected, and barring an 8 game losing streak to end the season, Kubiak will be our HC next season.

McNair clearly believes that the coaching staff is putting the players in position to win and it's on the players for not performing on the field. A solid case can be made for that perspective, although I tend to think the overall team attitude (or lack of) reflects on the coaching staff.

Kubiak will be back next year, so we might as well get used to that fact and accept that our owner chooses mediocrity over disruption and change everytime he arrives at that crossroads.

Yes, and then we also know what will happen at the end of 2010:

McNair will fire Kubiak and proclaim that he can't continue to let the fans go another day without trying a different approach.

When, in reality, all McNair is doing is prolonging the inevitable.

It's borderline intellectual shallowness, IMO, for McNair to act like he couldn't have possibly foreseen a similar outcome in 2010 to that which we have seen the previous seasons.

Hence, my BIG question: "Are we an NFL team pursuing excellence and cutting losses no matter what, or are we a charitable FOR-PROFIT organization that marginalizes excellence and cutting losses no matter what?"

The owner, at least in his current state of mind, is as much of a part of the problem as anyone else is.

I'm so disconnected from this team right now. I'm that old place again, the place of anger and frustration and hopelessness. But, I've done it to myself. I've believed and have believed on a grand scale that things "look" better and therefore should end up "being" better.

Time to temper my outloook on this team. Again.

Mr. White
12-03-2009, 11:42 AM
Poor example. Carroll took over an 11-5 team and every year their record got worse.

The example is the owner. He saw a guy that wasn't getting the job done and he dropped him before he could do too much damage.

Then he took a chance on another guy and he ended up taking them to 4 Super Bowls. If Belichick turned out to be a bum, then it wouldn't have taken Kraft more than 4 years to figure it out.

Kubiak isn't showing improvement as a coach the same way that Carr didn't show improvement as a QB. The problem is that we have an owner that values business ethics than he values his own judgment.

gtexan02
12-03-2009, 11:56 AM
The example is the owner. He saw a guy that wasn't getting the job done and he dropped him before he could do too much damage.

Then he took a chance on another guy and he ended up taking them to 4 Super Bowls. If Belichick turned out to be a bum, then it wouldn't have taken Kraft more than 4 years to figure it out.

Kubiak isn't showing improvement as a coach the same way that Carr didn't show improvement as a QB. The problem is that we have an owner that values business ethics than he values his own judgment.

You don't think this team is significantly better than last years? I certainly do

Mr. White
12-03-2009, 12:03 PM
You don't think this team is significantly better than last years? I certainly do

Maybe from a talent standpoint, but that doesn't mean jack if the record doesn't doesn't show it.

GuerillaBlack
12-03-2009, 12:04 PM
You don't think this team is significantly better than last years? I certainly do

The records aren't showing me that.

Runner
12-03-2009, 12:06 PM
You don't think this team is significantly better than last years?

Significantly? Absolutely not.

I'd characterize it as better in some areas and worse in others. I could see arguments made for a small net gain or a small net loss, but certainly not a significant move in either direction.

houstonspartan
12-03-2009, 12:13 PM
You don't think this team is significantly better than last years? I certainly do

Matt is better, obviously, but I think overall our offense has regressed a bit from last year.

GP
12-03-2009, 12:17 PM
You don't think this team is significantly better than last years? I certainly do

I don't think the offense is better.

The defense is, but not by much.

Overall, this team has slid back down to their normal status: Average, at best.

If this isn't on the coaches, then what IS on the coaches?

BigBull17
12-03-2009, 12:41 PM
You don't think this team is significantly better than last years? I certainly do

8-8 is 8-8. If Kuniak can't beat the Colts at home with a roaring crowd up 17-0, when the **** is he ever going to? 2 times we had 4th quarter leads with the ball, and lost. We let the Tits hang around, and lost in the end. To quote John Lopez, who I dislike, they win when it doesn't matter.

houstonspartan
12-03-2009, 01:56 PM
8-8 is 8-8. If Kuniak can't beat the Colts at home with a roaring crowd up 17-0, when the **** is he ever going to? 2 times we had 4th quarter leads with the ball, and lost. We let the Tits hang around, and lost in the end. To quote John Lopez, who I dislike, they win when it doesn't matter.

Very good point.

The Texans have had a lot in their favor this year. They have just not capitalized at all on anything.

Runner
12-06-2009, 08:28 PM
This is just super. The players know what's what. They know when they aren't being coached well, they know when the coaches aren't prepared, they damn well know when the coach isn't putting the best players on the field.

Having the owner then throw them under the bus while pumping up the coaching staff...this may be interesting to watch.

From another thread:

Actually, the callers on 610 are giving the entire team a pass, with the
exception of Kubiak. Schaub and Dre are extremely pissed the coaches
decided to go with a halfback option pass on 1st down at the 10, instead
of giving the ball to their playmakers. The coaches snatched the game from
Schaub and the offense, and handed it to the Jags.

The players are saying that? Funny how that happens after McNair says the coaches are doing a good job and the players are screwing up. The lack of leadership on this team goes a heck of a lot higher than the players on the field.

steelbtexan
12-06-2009, 09:13 PM
From another thread:



The players are saying that? Funny how that happens after McNair says the coaches are doing a good job and the players are screwing up. The lack of leadership on this team goes a heck of a lot higher than the players on the field.

Makes you wonder what the future holds for the Texans.

Due to the lack of leadership at the top of the organization.

CloakNNNdagger
12-06-2009, 10:46 PM
From another thread:



The players are saying that? Funny how that happens after McNair says the coaches are doing a good job and the players are screwing up. The lack of leadership on this team goes a heck of a lot higher than the players on the field.

Mr. McNair: "Right now I have a coach"

Mr. Kubiak: "Right now I have a team"

Mr. Shannahan: "Right now I have an offense"

Mr. Bush: Right now I have a defense"

Mr. CND: "Right now I have a headache":rake: