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DerekLee1
11-30-2009, 01:36 PM
I wonder - at what point(s) of the game does Kubiak take over and call plays for Lil' Shanny? He says he lets Shanny call "most" of the game. Is Shanny the one that is getting us downfield, and then Kubes taking over and screwing it up? Or is it the other way around? Maybe Shanny is the one that got us up 17-0 yesterday and then Kubes took over and screwed it up? It just doesn't make sense how different one half is from another this season when the opposing defenses aren't changing up a whole lot from half to half. Anyone have insight into this?

Imatexanfan
11-30-2009, 01:39 PM
No I figured Kubes would call the plays considering he is "offensive minded" and plus Lil Shanny is his puppet anyways...:peek:

Hervoyel
11-30-2009, 02:10 PM
We will never know the answer to that question Derek but consider this. Regardless of what it is Gary Kubiak is the problem.

If he's calling the plays in whole or in part and Shanahan is just a glorified assistant with a OC title then we see problems with what the Texans are doing. They shut down at the half or take a half to wake up before playing, change their strategy when successful or frequently stick with a flawed strategy too long. Gary will tell you every Monday that they should have done "something" more or less. He knows what they should be doing, he just doesn't do it in-game when it's taking place.

If Shanahan is responsible for all of this because he's calling the plays then why is Kubiak allowing this guy to basically cost us games?

I want to know who's doing what as well but no matter what's happening this comes back to the same man.

thunderkyss
11-30-2009, 02:51 PM
Play calling has been a big part of the problem for most of our games, even the games we won.

But I can't say I've got a problem with the play-calling Sunday. It was a balanced attack, and we were doing a pretty good job moving the ball. The problems were penalties.

Take the drive that ended in our first field goal for instance.
# Houston Texans at 14:49
# 1-10-IND 40 (14:49) 8-M.Schaub pass short left to 20-S.Slaton to IND 33 for 7 yards (25-J.Powers).
# 2-3-IND 33 (14:10) 20-S.Slaton right tackle to IND 29 for 4 yards (90-D.Muir).
# 1-10-IND 29 (13:30) 8-M.Schaub pass incomplete deep left to 80-A.Johnson (25-J.Powers). Houston challenged the incomplete pass ruling, and the play was Upheld. (Timeout #1.)
# 2-10-IND 29 (13:21) 8-M.Schaub pass short middle to 20-S.Slaton to IND 17 for 12 yards (27-J.Lacey).
# 1-10-IND 17 (12:42) 22-C.Brown up the middle to IND 14 for 3 yards (55-C.Session, 33-M.Bullitt).
# 2-7-IND 14 (12:02) 22-C.Brown up the middle to IND 12 for 2 yards (58-G.Brackett).
# 3-5-IND 12 (11:22) (Shotgun) PENALTY on HST-76-D.Brown, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at IND 12 - No Play.
# 3-10-IND 17 (11:00) (Shotgun) 8-M.Schaub pass incomplete deep left to 80-A.Johnson.
# 4-10-IND 17 (10:54) 3-K.Brown 35 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-85-J.Dreessen, Holder-1-M.Turk.

3rd & 5 isn't a bad place to be, and we've got a ton of plays to go to for that situation. But the false start puts us in an obvious passing situation. & the deeper the throw, the lower the probability for success.

I do agree, that we are probably predictably passing the ball on third downs regardless of the situation, & that might have something to do with our lack of success later in games..... but you know, it is what it is.

We gave up 102 yards in penalties. That's kind of hard to overcome with play-calling.

thunderkyss
11-30-2009, 02:53 PM
Some of those penalties..... the big PI by Reeves, & the roughing the passer on Smith are more than just questionable IMHO, but still counted against us in a bad way.

Vinny
11-30-2009, 02:56 PM
We will never know the answer to that question Derek but consider this. Regardless of what it is Gary Kubiak is the problem.

If he's calling the plays in whole or in part and Shanahan is just a glorified assistant with a OC title then we see problems with what the Texans are doing. They shut down at the half or take a half to wake up before playing, change their strategy when successful or frequently stick with a flawed strategy too long. Gary will tell you every Monday that they should have done "something" more or less. He knows what they should be doing, he just doesn't do it in-game when it's taking place.

If Shanahan is responsible for all of this because he's calling the plays then why is Kubiak allowing this guy to basically cost us games?

I want to know who's doing what as well but no matter what's happening this comes back to the same man.
our first time Head Coach and our first time Offensive Coordinator say it's on them. The first time General Manager and first time Defensive Coordinator give their sympathy.

Texan_Bill
11-30-2009, 02:57 PM
We gave up 102 yards in penalties. That's kind of hard to overcome with play-calling.

To emphasize your point here, nfl.com has Penalties (Number-Yards) 10 - 129 Which I posted as one of my key stats earlier this morning.

badboy
11-30-2009, 04:14 PM
Some of those penalties..... the big PI by Reeves, & the roughing the passer on Smith are more than just questionable IMHO, but still counted against us in a bad way.Reeves pulled the right arm down of the receiver. Whether it is usually called or not is like complaining because I got a ticket for running the red light but you did not. It was a penalty and Reeves got caught. Smith went to the QBs head. Enough said IMO. What is interesting is how our Oline got false starts in our stadium.

badboy
11-30-2009, 04:16 PM
our first time Head Coach and our first time Offensive Coordinator say it's on them. The first time General Manager and first time Defensive Coordinator give their sympathy."and the beat goes on... drums keep pounding a rhythm to my brain". Sorry had flashback to Sonny and Cher.

DerekLee1
12-01-2009, 12:39 AM
Reeves pulled the right arm down of the receiver. Whether it is usually called or not is like complaining because I got a ticket for running the red light but you did not. It was a penalty and Reeves got caught. Smith went to the QBs head. Enough said IMO. What is interesting is how our Oline got false starts in our stadium.

Reeves had more of a play on that ball - which was uncatchable by either - than Garcon, who also didn't have his head turned. Who pulled whose arm? Looked to me like it could have been offensive PI with Garcon blocking Reeves' arm. You can't throw a flag on that play. And yes, it was game-changing.

But back to my original post. At the beginning of the season, Kubiak said he was turning play-calling duties over to Lil' Shanny. But at numerous points, he's said that he will call plays in "certain situations". So is Lil' Shanny calling the bad halves, or is Kubiak? Seems to me that Kubiak needs to either give him playcalling duties or keep them to himself. Mixing it up doesn't seem to work. I understand certain situations like "go for it on 4th" or "center the ball for the field goal try", or "blitz heavily on this down", a HC should step in. But calling the actual play should go to THE playcaller, period - whether that's the HC or the coordinator.