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Drew_Smoke
11-30-2009, 12:57 PM
I know the debate is raging. I'd like to see how he does in this here poll....

I think continuity is what we need. Kubes' boys play hard for him and haven't quit.

And when I can say.."We need help at OL, DL, the Secondary and at RB"...what did we expect?

I said 10-6 if they're lucky but my guess was 9-7.

BattleRedToro
11-30-2009, 01:02 PM
I know the debate is raging. I'd liek to see how he does in this here poll..

Your poll is somewhat incomplete. You should have included the option of Fire Kubiak Now!

MannyFresh
11-30-2009, 01:02 PM
I'm waiting to hear what garbage BS they're going to say at today's conference...if Kubiak says the same ole crap...I'm wearing a paperbag at the last remaining home games.

I'm waiting, no I'm PRAYING for a newsflash/sports update that Kubiak is gone.

TimeKiller
11-30-2009, 01:04 PM
I've been behind Kubiak way too long. The team is stalling out with what seems to be a ton of talented players. I'll appreciate Kubiak's hard work in turning the franchise around anyday but it's time to move forward. Either with Kubiak or without him. Playoffs or bust.

Texecutioner
11-30-2009, 01:09 PM
Not!

Drew_Smoke
11-30-2009, 01:12 PM
Your poll is somewhat incomplete. You should have included the option of Fire Kubiak Now!

We all know that won't happen.

But McNair will say.."Ok...let Gary go and get....?"

You have to have an option. Cowher ain't coming here. Y'all have him as a savior because he went out on top. Him commenting on an opening that doesn't exist was kinda busch league.

PHAROAH
11-30-2009, 01:14 PM
It's time for chnage but I would recommend that we keep the offensive coordinator & OLine coach but it is time for kubiak to go bottom line.

Norg
11-30-2009, 01:16 PM
i want Shanhann or kubes


really kubes only had 3 years to work with here his first year he had carr has QB

give him 4 years with his boy Matty

Second Honeymoon
11-30-2009, 01:20 PM
No brainer for me right now.

I will say that things could change if somehow the Texans were to actually put together an actual winning streak like 4 or 5 games.

10-6 finish
(new contract)

9-7 finish
(no contract but you get next year to prove yourself)

8-8 finish
(no contract and you call Cowher/Holmgren/Gruden to see if interested. If not, extend a very short leash next year for Kubiak with possibly Lil'Shanny getting an audition for rest of season if Kubiak fails)

7-9 or worse
(go away Gary. You aren't wanted around here anymore)

Sounds convoluted but its pretty fair and would allow you to possibly give a young HC candidate like Lil'Shanny a good amount of a season to prove his mettle next year if Kubiak is lameduck and fails next year. Then you go into the following offseason looking for another top candidate and hire the best guy available or keep Lil'Shanny if he did a good job after Kubiak was canned.

Double Barrel
11-30-2009, 01:22 PM
I'm a believer!! When Kubiak says it's his fault, I believe it!

Second Honeymoon
11-30-2009, 01:26 PM
i want Shanhann or kubes


really kubes only had 3 years to work with here his first year he had carr has QB

give him 4 years with his boy Matty

so he would come back as lame duck coach or would you give him an extension first? and what if they finish 7-9?

chicagotexan2
11-30-2009, 01:28 PM
I like Gary the offensive coordinator. I do not like Gary the Head Coach. Sorry Kubes, but I can no longer back him. I will always back my one and only NFL team(no matter who we pick or not pick no matter the record, win or lose), but we need a change.

HJam72
11-30-2009, 01:33 PM
No brainer for me right now.

I will say that things could change if somehow the Texans were to actually put together an actual winning streak like 4 or 5 games.

10-6 finish
(new contract)

9-7 finish
(no contract but you get next year to prove yourself)

8-8 finish
(no contract and you call Cowher/Holmgren/Gruden to see if interested. If not, extend a very short leash next year for Kubiak with possibly Lil'Shanny getting an audition for rest of season if Kubiak fails)

7-9 or worse
(go away Gary. You aren't wanted around here anymore)

Sounds convoluted but its pretty fair and would allow you to possibly give a young HC candidate like Lil'Shanny a good amount of a season to prove his mettle next year if Kubiak is lameduck and fails next year. Then you go into the following offseason looking for another top candidate and hire the best guy available or keep Lil'Shanny if he did a good job after Kubiak was canned.

I don't know yet, but I pretty much agree with the quoted.

MFG16
11-30-2009, 01:36 PM
If we fire kubes we have to get shanahan or hire from the inside(the other shanahan?). what people do NOT realize is this team is built for kubes system. if we fire him and hire anybody else we basically have to rebuild. The new HC would want HIS players! that means new QB(maybe), RB, Oline, and Defensive players. that, IMO, would take longer and would lead to even more impatience. So if we do fire him go get shanahan. its basically the same system and all our players fit it.

Second Honeymoon
11-30-2009, 01:36 PM
I don't know yet, but I pretty much agree with the quoted.

its all about how they finish. if they can get to 9-7 I will listen but 8-8 the best Kubiak can hope for is a lame duck season. Just make the call to Bill Cowher and see if he is interested. Gary can't be pissed if we are looking to improve after an 8-8 season and calling someone with the credentials of Cowher.

the thing that sucks the most about yesterday was that if the Texans had won, we would have been looking good record-wise in the playoff race. A lot of teams lost that needed to lose. We just lost too. Treading water. A staple of Kubiak.

Blake
11-30-2009, 01:38 PM
You had your 4 years to get into the playoffs and failed. What more is there to say? Time for round 3...

brakos82
11-30-2009, 01:38 PM
I don't know yet, but I pretty much agree with the quoted.

I think I'd still have the 1-year for a 10-6... but other than that, yeah. :handshake:

DerekLee1
11-30-2009, 01:44 PM
I know the debate is raging. I'd like to see how he does in this here poll....

I think continuity is what we need. Kubes' boys play hard for him and haven't quit.

And when I can say.."We need help at OL, DL, the Secondary and at RB"...what did we expect?

I said 10-6 if they're lucky but my guess was 9-7.

I'm with you here. The reason franchises like Denver and Pittsburgh (and Dallas up until the Jerrah era) have been so successful over the ages is continuity. Even in down years, sometimes you have to stick with what you have. If you have a revolving door at HC and/or GM, it's difficult to have consistency.

This team is a few plays away from a 10-1 record. THAT'S the difference in the season. You can't blame Kubiak alone for Schaub's pick-6's against Arizona and Indy. Or Chris Brown's fumble against Jax. Or all of Slaton's fumbles. The OL needs help (it's no coincidence the running game is suffering BADLY without 3 blocking starters), we still need a safety (Busing and Wilson aren't going to get it done), and we still need a shutdown CB.

I say UNLESS Cowher says, "I WANT TO COACH IN HOUSTON", then there is no other coach available out there that will do a better job with this team than Kubiak. Jimmy Johnson, Holmgren, Shanahan - psshht, please. They'll all want total personnel control, and McNair (wisely) won't allow it. So give Kubiak a short leash and one more year. Maybe this team will make those 10 plays.

Hervoyel
11-30-2009, 01:55 PM
I always see the comment that Kubiak's first year somehow doesn't count because he had Carr as his QB and to that I say that he accepted Carr as his QB. He said he could win with David Carr as his QB and to my mind that means he doesn't get a pass. Sure guys, he inherited a team that had been 2-14 the previous year BUT....

They were 7-9 the season prior to that. He got them to 6-10 the season after. Since then we've been steadily 8-8. From what I can tell he took a completely middle of the pack team coming off of a very bad season, willingly signed off on a lousy QB, and then promptly rebuilt this middle of the pack team INTO ANOTHER (admittedly more exciting to watch on offense) MIDDLE OF THE PACK TEAM?

That about cover it?

No passes for Gary on the first year with Carr. He signed up for a year with Carr and then made it more or less impossible for the team to draft local hero and divine being Vince Young first overall in 2006 (thus ensuring two brutal ass beatings a year until Vince retires apparently) Then he uses a pair of 2's that we desperately need to speed along our rebuilding back to mediocrity to get Schaub who we wouldnt' have needed if he'd just taken Vince and ditched Carr.

No passes. His record is what it is.

Second Honeymoon
11-30-2009, 01:55 PM
I'm with you here. The reason franchises like Denver and Pittsburgh (and Dallas up until the Jerrah era) have been so successful over the ages is continuity. Even in down years, sometimes you have to stick with what you have. If you have a revolving door at HC and/or GM, it's difficult to have consistency.

This team is a few plays away from a 10-1 record. THAT'S the difference in the season. You can't blame Kubiak alone for Schaub's pick-6's against Arizona and Indy. Or Chris Brown's fumble against Jax. Or all of Slaton's fumbles. The OL needs help (it's no coincidence the running game is suffering BADLY without 3 blocking starters), we still need a safety (Busing and Wilson aren't going to get it done), and we still need a shutdown CB.

I say UNLESS Cowher says, "I WANT TO COACH IN HOUSTON", then there is no other coach available out there that will do a better job with this team than Kubiak. Jimmy Johnson, Holmgren, Shanahan - psshht, please. They'll all want total personnel control, and McNair (wisely) won't allow it. So give Kubiak a short leash and one more year. Maybe this team will make those 10 plays.

So you want Cowher but only if he openly courts the job? You think he is going to court someone else's job? Seriously?

Back to reality, Cowher may relish the opportunity to put a stamp on a franchise uniquely his own. The Texans have no tradition, no history, just a bunch of losing seasons. Cowher may want the challenge and opportunity to turn this whole thing around and start winning some damn football games for once. I say you give him a call if we go 8-8 or worse. A casual little feeler to see if he is indeed interested. He isn't going to call us. That is just not done by a coach against a coach.

BattleRedToro
11-30-2009, 01:57 PM
We all know that won't happen.

But McNair will say.."Ok...let Gary go and get....?"

You have to have an option. Cowher ain't coming here. Y'all have him as a savior because he went out on top. Him commenting on an opening that doesn't exist was kinda busch league.

While I wouldn't be in any way disappointed if the Texans hired Cowher, if you had read any of my posts instead of jumping to conclusions, then you would know that I have been calling for the hiring of Schottenheimer.

Goatcheese
11-30-2009, 02:38 PM
It depends on how they finish. If his players rally around him, and are willing to play balls to the wall to save his job, then I think you have to keep him for the final year of his contract. If they give up and just start going through the motions, then he has to go.

Double Barrel
11-30-2009, 02:48 PM
This team is a few plays away from a 10-1 record. THAT'S the difference in the season.

We are also a few plays away from being 1-10. That road goes both ways for every NFL team.

You and I both know that the ONLY thing that matters at the end of the season is scoreboard, not some delusional "what ifs and buts".

You can't blame Kubiak alone for Schaub's pick-6's against Arizona and Indy. Or Chris Brown's fumble against Jax. Or all of Slaton's fumbles. The OL needs help (it's no coincidence the running game is suffering BADLY without 3 blocking starters), we still need a safety (Busing and Wilson aren't going to get it done), and we still need a shutdown CB.


What do Schaub, Brown, and Slaton all have in common?

Players are indicative of coaching decisions off the field. HC's live and die by the results of the players that they and their staff choose. No matter how you trace that pattern, it still points to Kubiak.

bckey
11-30-2009, 02:53 PM
Get rid of Kubiak already. He is looking and acting like a defeated man who knows he is done in Houston. I'm just as tired of listening to and looking at him on the sidelines as I was Capers and dare I say Pardee.

m5kwatts
11-30-2009, 03:11 PM
I keep reading that Cowher says he won't talk to any teams with head coaches in place....

Which begs the question...

How long should the Texans give Kubiak? TIl the end of the season? If we wait that long we could miss out on Cowher... the Bears have interest in him too and I'm sure others could be in it like the Panthers and so on.

FirstTexansFan
11-30-2009, 03:12 PM
Your poll is somewhat incomplete. You should have included the option of Fire Kubiak Now!

Bingo!!

utahmark
11-30-2009, 03:17 PM
No brainer for me right now.

I will say that things could change if somehow the Texans were to actually put together an actual winning streak like 4 or 5 games.

10-6 finish
(new contract)

9-7 finish
(no contract but you get next year to prove yourself)

8-8 finish
(no contract and you call Cowher/Holmgren/Gruden to see if interested. If not, extend a very short leash next year for Kubiak with possibly Lil'Shanny getting an audition for rest of season if Kubiak fails)

7-9 or worse
(go away Gary. You aren't wanted around here anymore)

Sounds convoluted but its pretty fair and would allow you to possibly give a young HC candidate like Lil'Shanny a good amount of a season to prove his mettle next year if Kubiak is lameduck and fails next year. Then you go into the following offseason looking for another top candidate and hire the best guy available or keep Lil'Shanny if he did a good job after Kubiak was canned.

this sounds good to me. except i might take holmgren/gruden off that list and add a couple different ones.

Mailman
11-30-2009, 03:19 PM
I refuse to vote in this poll right now because I'm too emotionally invested in the Texans' success or lack thereof to make an intelligent decision.

Everything hinges on the remaining five games. If the Texans can pull a rabbit out of their miracle hat and sweep all five, I say bring him back. Anything else and he's probably on my shitcan list.

datchapin
11-30-2009, 04:04 PM
Kubiak needs to go regardless of how the season finishes.

The first poster said we still need help here, here, and here. I'm sorry dude if we need pro-bowlers at every level to succeed then we're really not getting it done. Kubiak has a lot to do with the guys we bring in. I remember when we drafted Okoye I was happy. Then Smith dropped a comment about how none of their draft boards had him falling that far. Does that mean our front office didn't do their due diligence in scouting him? Anyways, we've been saying we need secondary, offensive and defensive line help since Kubiak freakin' got here!! So what's gonna change if he stays here?

Another dude was talking about how these guys are Kubiak system fits. Well you know what Kubiak's system isn't working. Our running game has been crap! He hired the guy who invented the dang thing. Who had a history of top rushing O's in Denver and ATL yet here we suck. I saw it work last yr. I dunno what happened this yr. but obviously Kubiak is the one who installed what he wanted and it hasn't worked. Other coaches have shown that a quick turnaround is possible. Four yrs. into this regime and we still haven't had a winning season.

The last thing was about continuity. No, I refuse to keep supporting a coaching staff that is continually failing to have our guys prepared. Each yr. we've ended strong and started the next season sucking. Something has to change.

sometexansfan
11-30-2009, 04:10 PM
No brainer for me right now.

I will say that things could change if somehow the Texans were to actually put together an actual winning streak like 4 or 5 games.

10-6 finish with playoffs
(new contract)

10-6 finish with no playoffs/9-7 finish
(no contract but you get next year to prove yourself)

8-8 finish
(no contract and you call Cowher/Holmgren/Gruden to see if interested. If not, extend a very short leash next year for Kubiak with possibly Lil'Shanny getting an audition for rest of season if Kubiak fails)

7-9 or worse
(go away Gary. You aren't wanted around here anymore)

Sounds convoluted but its pretty fair and would allow you to possibly give a young HC candidate like Lil'Shanny a good amount of a season to prove his mettle next year if Kubiak is lameduck and fails next year. Then you go into the following offseason looking for another top candidate and hire the best guy available or keep Lil'Shanny if he did a good job after Kubiak was canned.

That's better.

Texecutioner
11-30-2009, 05:16 PM
I refuse to vote in this poll right now because I'm too emotionally invested in the Texans' success or lack thereof to make an intelligent decision.

Everything hinges on the remaining five games. If the Texans can pull a rabbit out of their miracle hat and sweep all five, I say bring him back. Anything else and he's probably on my shitcan list.

I don't understand why some of you would allow yourselves to get fooled again by Kubiak's late season wins that become meaningless games once the post season is already out of the picture. What difference does it make if we were to win the rest of the games? Our team is talented enough to do that. WOuld any of that change all of the blunders, poor management decisions during games, and his stubborn behavior that has caused so many other losses this season and last season as well? I refuse to get succered into thinking Gary can turn it around just because he could possibly have a few wins at the end of the year. We need a guy who can actually coach a 16 game season. People forget that we had a cup cake schedule this year as well.

thunderkyss
11-30-2009, 05:23 PM
I say give the man another year.

He was handicapped that first year, with Caserly, Carr, & Sherman.

The team is finally playing his brand of football, we're young, & they're gaining confidence.

This team is going to be a monster team next year, regardless who is coaching.

& think about it.

One more Kubiak draft....

thunderkyss
11-30-2009, 05:26 PM
I don't understand why some of you would allow yourselves to get fooled again by Kubiak's late season wins that become meaningless games once the post season is already out of the picture. What difference does it make if we were to win the rest of the games?

Because it's a marathon. The last 6 count just as much, if not more than the first 6.

We are not out of anything yet.

10-6 can get us in, but we'll need help.

Every game matters, until we lose another one.

With 7 loses, there's no way, but with 6, there is still a chance.

Double Barrel
11-30-2009, 05:29 PM
Has this franchise EVER won 5 games in a row? :um:

Mr. White
11-30-2009, 05:31 PM
Has this franchise EVER won 5 games in a row? :um:

I give 'em a chance if those games come in December and they're mathematically out of the playoffs.

eriadoc
11-30-2009, 06:14 PM
I voted to replace him, but not for the knee jerk reasons most are, and I'm not on the Cowher bandwagon, either. I just think that in four years, you should be able to produce a winning season, especially if you have as much input into player acquisition as Kubiak has. Now, given the crap that he inherited, there wasn't a lot of margin for error on those four years, but still ....

The last three losses are devastating in how they lost, not that they lost. I think most people had the Colts games as losses in their heads, with some hope that we'd pull one out. I think now, we all know that we can outplay the Colts (or anyone), but we haven't put together a 60-minute ballgame all year.

United Way needs to start a "Play60" campaign aimed at the Texans instead of kids.

Big Lou
11-30-2009, 06:18 PM
The only way I would say dump him is if we got Cowher or Marty S.

I would rather give him one more year than start the Cleveland revolving door routine.

houstonspartan
11-30-2009, 06:29 PM
The only way I would say dump him is if we got Cowher or Marty S.

I would rather give him one more year than start the Cleveland revolving door routine.

Come on. He have had only ONE other head coach in our existence. In addition, we have a MUCH better foundation than Cleveland. Romeo Crennel left that place in a bit of a mess. Then, the owners knee-jerked and hired Mangini almost on the spot.

Why do you think coaches are probably salivating to get here? It's because they look at us and see that we only need a few tweaks to get to the upper levels. Bill Cowher can likely go to any team he wants, and he mentions the Texans? Why?

Because of what Gary has built. It's sad, but Gary won't be around to see the fruits of his labor. Then again, one could also easily question whether or not the fruit would have fully ripened under Gary or not.

PapaL
11-30-2009, 06:44 PM
I vote for...my vote doesn't matter. No one in the FO is sitting there watching this thread for any great ideas. If they are - then they should all be fired.

Lack of testicular fortitude.

HJam72
11-30-2009, 06:45 PM
In all fairness, how many teams would beat the Titans or Colts right now and can we expect to be that good at this juncture? The Colts are undefeated and the Titans just steamrolled the Cardinals. I have not made a decision yet, but it's just something to think about. Our dreams of consecutive playoff appearances not happening may be more a result of our division holding up better than we thought. Flip side of that coin is that Kubiak seems to have built a team that is good, but built just right to be a doormat for its division foes. Seems that Jax is the least scary of them right now and we are about to play them. That game will tell me a lot. The biggest reason Jax has passed us is probably a better division record, thanx in part to a win over us early this season. I think Kubiak better have this team ready to beat Jax on the road or else. We could lose to them and still pull off a 9 win season, but 4 division losses in a row?!?! He needs to prove we can at least beat Jax on the road and then finish with 9 wins. I'd say 8 is enough again, but....well, there's all those reasons to can him.

houstonspartan
11-30-2009, 06:51 PM
In all fairness, how many teams would beat the Titans or Colts right now and can we expect to be that good at this juncture? The Colts are undefeated and the Titans just steamrolled the Cardinals. I have not made a decision yet, but it's just something to think about. Our dreams of consecutive playoff appearances not happening may be more a result of our division holding up better than we thought. Flip side of that coin is that Kubiak seems to have built a team that is good, but built just right to be a doormat for its division foes. Seems that Jax is the least scary of them right now and we are about to play them. That game will tell me a lot. The biggest reason Jax has passed us is probably a better division record, thanx in part to a win over us early this season. I think Kubiak better have this team ready to beat Jax on the road or else. We could lose to them and still pull off a 9 win season, but 4 division losses in a row?!?! He needs to prove we can at least beat Jax on the road and then finish with 9 wins. I'd say 8 is enough again, but....well, there's all those reasons to can him.


1) We almost beat Indy TWICE.

2) We had a jump on our division this year. Jax came out weak, and Tennessee came out 0-6. That was our chance. We had a nice 2nd place spot for a while. As of today, we are in fourth place - again.

3) The Jax game won't tell us anything. The challenges come with beating the big boys like Indy.

4) Tennessee had to replace their aging qb. They went with a young qb who has had some...mental issues. Are you telling me we couldn't have taken advantage of that? Matt Schaub is TEN TIMES the qb Vince Young is.

Sorry, man, but there were a lot of things in our favor this year. We didn't capitalize.

Big Lou
11-30-2009, 06:52 PM
Come on. He have had only ONE other head coach in our existence. In addition, we have a MUCH better foundation than Cleveland. Romeo Crennel left that place in a bit of a mess. Then, the owners knee-jerked and hired Mangini almost on the spot.

Why do you think coaches are probably salivating to get here? It's because they look at us and see that we only need a few tweaks to get to the upper levels. Bill Cowher can likely go to any team he wants, and he mentions the Texans? Why?

Because of what Gary has built. It's sad, but Gary won't be around to see the fruits of his labor. Then again, one could also easily question whether or not the fruit would have fully ripened under Gary or not.

I agree with everything you have said. My point was that I want the next coach to be here a while. Some say that McNair is too nice a guy, but I think he has some smarts. You have to give coachs time to build period, even if after two years you think you have the wrong guy, otherwise you end up with the revolving door.

TheRealJoker
11-30-2009, 07:43 PM
its all about how they finish. if they can get to 9-7 I will listen but 8-8 the best Kubiak can hope for is a lame duck season. Just make the call to Bill Cowher and see if he is interested. Gary can't be pissed if we are looking to improve after an 8-8 season and calling someone with the credentials of Cowher.

the thing that sucks the most about yesterday was that if the Texans had won, we would have been looking good record-wise in the playoff race. A lot of teams lost that needed to lose. We just lost too. Treading water. A staple of Kubiak.

This was Kubiak's year to make the playoffs plain and simple:

1) Titans started off 0-6, we should've pulled away to take 2nd place and get set for a wild card run after we upset them in Tenn but we drop one to the Jags at home. Now instead of separating ourselves from a key division foe we dropped our last 3 and evened our records including a loss on MNF at home to the Titans!!!

2) Steelers, Ravens, Jags are all 6-5. We should've passed them up if we had won 2 of our 3 losses, all of which were winnable for a playoff contender... and now we're on the outside looking in. Even if we run the table we will have gone 2-4 in the division, I am pretty sure that's not gonna win us any tiebreakers.

While teams in the hunt are losing winnable games: Pittsburgh loses 2 in a row, Miami drops one to Buffalo, and Jax drops one to San Fran...we decide to do them better and drop 3 in a row setting us back further than when we were feeling good about ourselves at 5-3.

Broncos are 7-4, then there are 3 teams at 6-5 in the hunt. We are now 5-6 and need Pittsburgh, Baltimore, and Jacksonville to collapse as well as us doing something we've never done before and the teams ahead of us have all done (win games when they matter...not when we're out of the hunt).

HJam72
11-30-2009, 08:00 PM
1) We almost beat Indy TWICE.

2) We had a jump on our division this year. Jax came out weak, and Tennessee came out 0-6. That was our chance. We had a nice 2nd place spot for a while. As of today, we are in fourth place - again.

3) The Jax game won't tell us anything. The challenges come with beating the big boys like Indy.

4) Tennessee had to replace their aging qb. They went with a young qb who has had some...mental issues. Are you telling me we couldn't have taken advantage of that? Matt Schaub is TEN TIMES the qb Vince Young is.

Sorry, man, but there were a lot of things in our favor this year. We didn't capitalize.

IF, we win 4 of the next 5 games, including at Jax, and finish with 9 wins, I still think you gotta give Kubiak one more year to make the playoffs. It's not like their guaranteed to manage that anyway. I wouldn't be so sure about VY. He just lit up Arizona for 387 yards and 0 interceptions. Regardless, CJ is a Hell of a challenge and you know VY can run for first downs. NOBODY is beating those 2 teams right now. It's not just us that can't. Yes, there were a lot of things in our favor, except that all 3 of our division rivals are better than expected, except for Tenn. through the first 6 games. I'm extremely unhappy with Kubiak right now, too, but you just don't normally fire a HC on a young, 9-7 team.

Our D didn't let VY torch us for almost 400 yds. and the team that did IS a playoff contender. Indy is undefeated.

If I had to choose right now and the season only lasted 11 games, I'd fire Gary Kubiak....but it's not over yet. Let's see what he does against teams that aren't embarrassing everyone in the league.

HJam72
11-30-2009, 08:23 PM
Let's see. We've lost 6 games.

1. We lost to the Jets and that D that NOBODY knew how to deal with at the beginning of the year.

2. Then we lost to a Jags team that is 6-5 right now. OK, we shoulda had that one.

3. We barely lost to the Cardinals who are 7-4 right now....and that's after VY torched them for nearly 400 yards.

4. We barely lose to an undefeated Colts team on the road.

5. We barely lose to a VY-led Titans team in a game that was in the middle of their 5-game winning streak and who just beat the 7-3 Cardinals.

6. We lose to an undefeated Colts team again.

I know that our wins pretty much can be dismissed as coming against lesser teams as well, but I don't think this team can be expected to win most of those 6 games right now anyway, with the one exception of the Jax game.

Our schedule may have looked easy when the season started, but up to this point I really don't think it has been.

HJam72
11-30-2009, 08:26 PM
Having said all of that, if we lose to Jax OR lose 2 more games total, I will break out the pink soap. It's getting really close.

bckey
11-30-2009, 08:26 PM
Do we Texan fans ever stop making excuses for our team losing year after year?

HJam72
11-30-2009, 08:54 PM
Do we Texan fans ever stop making excuses for our team losing year after year?

Kubiak has gone 6-10, 8-8, and 8-8 after taking over a team that was 2-14. Our record for this year has not been decided yet. I'm not making excuses for Capers and Casserly. Like I said, Kubiak's Texans better get it in gear or I'll be on your side very soon.

thunderkyss
11-30-2009, 08:56 PM
In all fairness, how many teams would beat the Titans or Colts right now and can we expect to be that good at this juncture? The Colts are undefeated and the Titans just steamrolled the Cardinals.

I can see both sides of the argument here.

In all fairness, " they are who we thought they were, & we let them off the hook." For real.

We knew what they were going to do, we stopped them to varying degrees over the last three games, & we were able to do what we wanted to do. The last three games were ours to win, and we stopped ourselves from winning.

Whether it was the play calling, or promoting our 3rd string back to starter, or making dumb unforced turnovers (I'm talking about Matt's two INTs) we shot ourselves in the foot again.

& it's not like this is anything new. We've been doing it for years. We've been doing it all year.

It would be nice, if our coach could say to himself, "you know G.. " he just looks like the kind of guy who calls himself G.. but he'll say, "you know G.. now is about the time these guys need a little settling down. Let me call a time out here, or call Matt.. Demeco.. Slaton, or whoever it is at that moment over to the sideline & tell him he's doing a good job. Tell him to breath. Tell him I've got faith in him."

or the whole team at certain times.. between possessions, or something.

"Guys, you're playing a great game... let's finish this right here. "

HJam72
11-30-2009, 09:02 PM
What if we need that timeout later, lol?

I wouldn't hesitate to replace him with certain other HCs right now, but otherwise I don't think he's quite lost his job yet (if it were even up to me).

thunderkyss
11-30-2009, 09:13 PM
Having said all of that, if we lose to Jax OR lose 2 more games total, I will break out the pink soap. It's getting really close.

That's fair.

Second Honeymoon
11-30-2009, 10:01 PM
While I wouldn't be in any way disappointed if the Texans hired Cowher, if you had read any of my posts instead of jumping to conclusions, then you would know that I have been calling for the hiring of Schottenheimer.

If you can't get a Cowher to come here, Marty would be a shrewd hire in that you would probably be able to get his son from the Jets and cherrypick some Schotty guys from around the league.

The coaching staff is the key and I believe that Marty would put together a top coaching staff with his contacts around the league.

I just want some proven leadership in there that has actually won before.

GNTLEWOLF
11-30-2009, 10:09 PM
Replace him. And I don't want Shannahan. he is just more of the same as what we have now.

New_Texans
11-30-2009, 10:29 PM
Kubiak cant get this team to win close games, he needs to go. his time is up here...he has no trust in his players.

Norg
11-30-2009, 11:58 PM
so he would come back as lame duck coach or would you give him an extension first? and what if they finish 7-9?

Iam all for shanhann or keep Kubes for 2 more years

Norg
12-01-2009, 12:03 AM
I don't understand why some of you would allow yourselves to get fooled again by Kubiak's late season wins that become meaningless games once the post season is already out of the picture. What difference does it make if we were to win the rest of the games? Our team is talented enough to do that. WOuld any of that change all of the blunders, poor management decisions during games, and his stubborn behavior that has caused so many other losses this season and last season as well? I refuse to get succered into thinking Gary can turn it around just because he could possibly have a few wins at the end of the year. We need a guy who can actually coach a 16 game season. People forget that we had a cup cake schedule this year as well.

It wasent Meaningless to Chicago win and they were in the playoffs

how about the colts We beat them and forced them into a WC game with KC in the wildcard PS round

DerekLee1
12-01-2009, 12:25 AM
I wonder how many cowgirl fans wanted Jimmy Johnson fired after the Herschel Walker deal and 1-15. Or Patriots fans with Bill Bellichick after his 5-11 season (following Pete Carroll's 9-7 season). Or Bill Cowher (so frequently mentioned on this board) after his 1997-1999 seasons (7-9, 6-10, 9-7) that followed 6 playoff seasons. Progress in the NFL, especially in the salary cap era, is SLOW. But if you do it the right way, you can build a dynasty.

Please, do NOT let this franchise have a revolving door at the HC position. Look what it's done to the Jets. And the Dolphins since Shula's retirement. And the Browns. And the 49ers. The cowgirls since JJ. Teams like the Eagles, the Steelers, the Patriots, the Colts, the Titans have won by toughing it out through the bad years. Yeah, it's been 8 years for us. But look at the Saints now. What did it take them, 35 years? I'm not really a Saints fan, but imagine how elated they are now. Maybe it's worth it?

houstonspartan
12-01-2009, 12:38 AM
I wonder how many cowgirl fans wanted Jimmy Johnson fired after the Herschel Walker deal and 1-15. Or Patriots fans with Bill Bellichick after his 5-11 season (following Pete Carroll's 9-7 season). Or Bill Cowher (so frequently mentioned on this board) after his 1997-1999 seasons (7-9, 6-10, 9-7) that followed 6 playoff seasons. Progress in the NFL, especially in the salary cap era, is SLOW. But if you do it the right way, you can build a dynasty.

Please, do NOT let this franchise have a revolving door at the HC position. Look what it's done to the Jets. And the Dolphins since Shula's retirement. And the Browns. And the 49ers. The cowgirls since JJ. Teams like the Eagles, the Steelers, the Patriots, the Colts, the Titans have won by toughing it out through the bad years. Yeah, it's been 8 years for us. But look at the Saints now. What did it take them, 35 years? I'm not really a Saints fan, but imagine how elated they are now. Maybe it's worth it?


Danger, Will Robinson!!! DANGER!!!!

You've got to be kidding me. We have had one coach in 8 years. And both coaches have been given a good amount of time - and money - to produce.

Also, our team is much more stable than those other teams. Taking over this team is not as big of a rebuilding process.

The Saints? Seriously? Yeah, the story is great, but 35 years? I'm supposed to wait 35 years in a league built that allows everyone to win.

You sound exactly like the Lions fans I saw growing up. They waited it out, and ended up with 0-16, and they're still a good 10 years behind the curve.

awtysst
12-01-2009, 12:48 AM
I wonder how many cowgirl fans wanted Jimmy Johnson fired after the Herschel Walker deal and 1-15. Or Patriots fans with Bill Bellichick after his 5-11 season (following Pete Carroll's 9-7 season). Or Bill Cowher (so frequently mentioned on this board) after his 1997-1999 seasons (7-9, 6-10, 9-7) that followed 6 playoff seasons. Progress in the NFL, especially in the salary cap era, is SLOW. But if you do it the right way, you can build a dynasty.

Please, do NOT let this franchise have a revolving door at the HC position. Look what it's done to the Jets. And the Dolphins since Shula's retirement. And the Browns. And the 49ers. The cowgirls since JJ. Teams like the Eagles, the Steelers, the Patriots, the Colts, the Titans have won by toughing it out through the bad years. Yeah, it's been 8 years for us. But look at the Saints now. What did it take them, 35 years? I'm not really a Saints fan, but imagine how elated they are now. Maybe it's worth it?


All your points are valid. But,
1) Jimmy Johnson won a Natl Championship in miami before coming to Dallas. He had Dallas at 11-5 in his 3rd season.

2) Cowher took the Steelers to the playoffs his first 6 years. So, when his team was down he had already shown himself to be a winner and was given time to right the ship.

3) Billichik's team was 11-5 in his 2nd year in NE. He also managed to get the Browns to 11-5 in his 4th year.

Kubes has never won a Natl Championship, never taken his team to the playoffs, and has never had a winning record. He has not shown he has the mettle to be a head coach.

TexanBacker93
12-01-2009, 01:03 AM
I keep hearing how Kubiak's greatest strength is his ability to get the team to bounce back from a loss. Well, we're sitting at 3 in a row right now. When do we bounce back?

TexanBacker93
12-01-2009, 01:05 AM
Kubiak cant get this team to win close games, he needs to go. his time is up here...he has no trust in his players.

The solution is to start winning by 14 each week.

silvrhand
12-01-2009, 01:27 AM
I know the debate is raging. I'd like to see how he does in this here poll....

I think continuity is what we need. Kubes' boys play hard for him and haven't quit.

And when I can say.."We need help at OL, DL, the Secondary and at RB"...what did we expect?

I said 10-6 if they're lucky but my guess was 9-7.

The texans quit after the pick fumble on defense, when Home Simpson ran it in you could tell that last fumble and they had to get back on the field they were done. This is the first time I've seen them lay down, cause there is no way Simpson the 3rd string running back breaks 4-5 tackles and goes in.

Last fumble broke the back of the defense.

Dread-Head
12-01-2009, 01:31 AM
To quote an episode of Family Guy and it's "Black to the Future" sketch.

"Oh you outta tiiiiime baby!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5asSxSauOYU

DerekLee1
12-01-2009, 01:33 AM
The texans quit after the pick fumble on defense, when Home Simpson ran it in you could tell that last fumble and they had to get back on the field they were done. This is the first time I've seen them lay down, cause there is no way Simpson the 3rd string running back breaks 4-5 tackles and goes in.

Last fumble broke the back of the defense.

Two things about that play:

1. The defense was trying to strip the ball, not tackle the runner.

2. If they don't score there, they run down the clock and kick a game-clinching FG.

It wasn't laying down, it was desperation.

silvrhand
12-01-2009, 01:55 AM
Two things about that play:

1. The defense was trying to strip the ball, not tackle the runner.

2. If they don't score there, they run down the clock and kick a game-clinching FG.

It wasn't laying down, it was desperation.

I'm sitting right there, there wasn't much stripping going on, so I looked at the replay, and Diles was the only strip attempt, and basically kicked him out of the way of everyone else.

C Madd
12-01-2009, 01:09 PM
The solution is to start winning by 14 each week.

Would be nice if we could keep a lead that large.

50boys
12-01-2009, 01:12 PM
I like Kubiak, I just think it's time for a change. I think he's taking us as far as he can.

Blake
12-01-2009, 01:14 PM
To quote an episode of Family Guy and it's "Black to the Future" sketch.

"Oh you outta tiiiiime baby!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5asSxSauOYU

I didnt need the youtube clip to hear/see Peter say that in my head. Too Funny!!!

Double Barrel
12-01-2009, 01:42 PM
How long is the learning curve for a first time GM, HC, OC, or DC?

How long is the learning curve for a franchise that has never experienced a winning record and has a first time GM, HC, OC, and DC?

How much patience does this franchise want from fans to allow the kind of time required for all four of these key positions to learn on the job?

This is the crossroads. Personally, I'm tired losing year after year and I do not see the kind of improvement that warrants infinite patience from us as fans. Sure, they've done some things right, but collectively, they have not done enough to bring any measure of true success to this franchise. We are still floundering around .500, cannot play four quarters of solid football, have no killer instinct to control a game when we have a two score or more lead, and cannot simply close out games.

I think the writing is on the wall. Now it's just a matter of our owner reading that writing, or waiting to read it in a future season. My gut feeling is that the results will be the same if he decides to give this regime another year or more.

WWJD
12-01-2009, 01:45 PM
Probably time to move on.

HJam72
12-01-2009, 04:03 PM
I keep hearing how Kubiak's greatest strength is his ability to get the team to bounce back from a loss. Well, we're sitting at 3 in a row right now. When do we bounce back?

After Jax, because that is our last division game. :gun:

thunderkyss
12-01-2009, 05:05 PM
What if we need that timeout later, lol?


With this team, you can't worry about later.

PHAROAH
12-01-2009, 05:12 PM
If he can go at least 9-7 I'd say give him one more season but don't extend his contract until after the the 2010 season if he can turn it around but he has to go at least 9-7 to keep his job this season. I am leaning with the coaching change and is in favor of keeping the offensive coordinator and offensive line coach.

Goatcheese
12-01-2009, 06:28 PM
At this point I think the head hunters are going to be disappointed.

If McNair were going to part ways with Kubiak he would have brought in an adviser to tell him what's what, because he knows less than nothing about football operations.

Start preparing yourself for Kubes to be the coach going into a new decade. That way you won't be disappointed when it happens.

Double Barrel
12-01-2009, 07:13 PM
I agree with Goatcheese. I think that looking at what we know about McNair's M.O. up to this point, Kubiak is here next season barring a 6-10 record this season. McNair tends to give people the benefit of the doubt and keeps them longer than he should. HWNSNBM, Casserly, and Richard Smith immediately come to mind as former Texans employees that stayed a year longer than they should have. It's just how Bob rolls.

Goldensilence
12-01-2009, 07:21 PM
I agree with Goatcheese. I think that looking at what we know about McNair's M.O. up to this point, Kubiak is here next season barring a 6-10 record this season. McNair tends to give people the benefit of the doubt and keeps them longer than he should. HWNSNBM, Casserly, and Richard Smith immediately come to mind as former Texans employees that stayed a year longer than they should have. It's just how Bob rolls.

I have no qualms with placing Carr on McNair's hands or Casserly, but how much of keeping Dick Smith goes on Kubiak?

steelbtexan
12-01-2009, 07:39 PM
I wouldn't have said this at the begining of the year,I was a big Kubes supporter.

It's time

Carr Bombed
12-01-2009, 07:49 PM
I agree with Goatcheese. I think that looking at what we know about McNair's M.O. up to this point, Kubiak is here next season barring a 6-10 record this season. McNair tends to give people the benefit of the doubt and keeps them longer than he should. HWNSNBM, Casserly, and Richard Smith immediately come to mind as former Texans employees that stayed a year longer than they should have. It's just how Bob rolls.

I don't know about that...

As soon as Capers took a step back he was gone. You can say whatever about Capers' career here, but 4-12 < 5-11 < 7-9 was improvement every year and then the > 2-12....fired

Another 8-8 record with this team while being the same record as last year, is clearly a step back (and McNair has even mentioned as much) and I think Kubiak will be gone.....not even sure a 9-7 record will save him at this point, McNair has been looking pretty pissed lately. People like to bag on the owner like he doesn't care about winning, but if people don't think he's just as or even more frustrated than every other fan in this city they're fooling themselves. McNair wants to win just as much as everyone on this board, you can see it in his face when he's standing on the sidelines. Sadly we've just had to put up with McNair's learning curve also, but to also act like the man hasn't learned anything about football in the past 8 years is also pretty ignorant (not directing that at you just speaking towards the rest of the board). The biggest problem McNair has had is he's a hands off owner and while that's one of the perfect owners to have when you have the right people in place.........problem is, we haven't gotten the right people in place yet.

steelbtexan
12-01-2009, 07:55 PM
I don't know about that...

As soon as Capers took a step back he was gone. You can say whatever about Capers career here, but 4-12 < 5-11 < 7-9 was improvement every year and then the > 2-12....fired

Another 8-8 record with this team while being the same record as last year, is clearly a step back (and McNair has even mentioned as much) and I think Kubiak will be gone.....not even sure a 9-7 record will save him at this point, McNair has been looking pretty pissed lately. People like to bag on the owner like he doesn't care about winning, but if people don't think he's just as or even more frustrated than every other fan in this city they're fooling themselves. McNair wants to win just as much as everyone on this board, you can see it in his face when he's standing on the sidelines. Sadly we've just had to put up with McNair's learning curve also.

I hope you're right but an 8 yr learning curve?

Surely Bob McNair didn't take the short bus to school. He's a billionaire right?

devo-x
12-01-2009, 07:59 PM
There's still 5 games left in the season - It's not over yet

I would welcome our first winning season at 9-7 along with a coaching change

Carr Bombed
12-01-2009, 08:05 PM
I hope you're right but an 8 yr learning curve?

Surely Bob McNair didn't take the short bus to school. He's a billionaire right?

It's not a 8 year learning curve.... I said he's a smarter man now then he was 8 years ago.

There's lots of owners in this league that would've given a coach a 4th season after his first 3 years were 6-10, 8-8, and 8-8 (which while being the same record as the year before, many were in agreement the team was better and headed in the right direction)......especially if that said team was a new franchise coming off of a complete roster purge after a 2-14 season.

The watermark is this year... If he gives Kubiak another season after this year then we can all question whether or not he has learned a damn thing during his time as owner, but if he recognizes it's time to move on RIGHT NOW and not go with the status quo then we'll all know McNair is starting to "get it". I expect him to make just that decision this offseason.

thunderkyss
12-01-2009, 08:16 PM
I agree with Goatcheese. I think that looking at what we know about McNair's M.O. up to this point, Kubiak is here next season barring a 6-10 record this season. McNair tends to give people the benefit of the doubt and keeps them longer than he should. HWNSNBM, Casserly, and Richard Smith immediately come to mind as former Texans employees that stayed a year longer than they should have. It's just how Bob rolls.

In my opinion, McNair wants to build a family based organization. Not a cut throat, win at all cost, care only about the money corporation.

I don't know if that's true or not, but I like to think that is why he kept Casserly, Carr, & offered Dunta more money than he deserved.

I think that's admirable.

Kubiak has had his hand in so much of this organization that I don't think McNair would even consider moving Kubiak at this point of our organizations history.



Another 8-8 record with this team while being the same record as last year, is clearly a step back (and McNair has even mentioned as much)

The success of this organization is not going to be judged on our record alone.

We're developing players, coaches, scouts.. everything. When we start winning, it will be for a long, long, long time.

Carr Bombed
12-01-2009, 08:29 PM
The success of this organization is not going to be judged on our record alone.

We're developing players, coaches, scouts.. everything. When we start winning, it will be for a long, long, long time.

Yeah, but in the true words of Parcells........you are what your record says you are.

You can only be the "best 8-8 team in the history on the NFL" for so long before a move HAS to be made.

Carr Bombed
12-01-2009, 08:35 PM
forget everything I said about McNair, If he truely believes what he said in that article in the other thread, then we're worse off than I thought.

A simple "I have a coach right now and there's still alot of games to be played. Every position from players on up will be evaluated at the end of the season" would of sufficed. THAT'S what good owners do.....they squash the midseason coach talk till the end of the season, while putting their coaches and players feet to the fire.

TexCanada
12-02-2009, 12:19 AM
I keep going back and forth on my opinion of keeping Kubes or not. I think it really all depends on how we bounce back and play the remaining games. We might be better off trying to bring in some veteran leadership guys, like Denver did with Dawkins. If we could add a heady vet at FS and at C, that might solve our issues better then trying a new head coach would.

I still think that the main problem with this team is the O-line. They are not consistent enough, and we don't have any confidence whatsoever with running the ball when we need to kill time.

So for today I'm thinking adding in a leader to our D, and re-vamping our O-line will be our best option. Although my opinion could very well change with a loss to Jax.

GP
12-02-2009, 01:18 AM
I wouldn't have said this at the begining of the year,I was a big Kubes supporter.

It's time

Same here.

I was a sunshine club member and probably on the board of directors.

Not planning for VY and his typical college "option-based" run plays on MNF was the last straw for me. They started doing that crap early enough the previous few games for us to have (a) seen it and to have (b) worked for two straight weeks with our defense on how to read and react to it with 100% efficiency and effectiveness.

Instead, they looked lost out there. Lost and scared.

Anyways, I'm done with Kubiak and almost done with Schaub. I started out really high on them, then down on them, and I'm back to being very uninspired by them again.

A leap forward was made by Kubiak, but I think he's hit his ceiling.

Dread-Head
12-02-2009, 01:26 AM
This pretty much sums up how many of us feel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaG2Acg8n60

houstonspartan
12-02-2009, 02:32 AM
forget everything I said about McNair, If he truely believes what he said in that article in the other thread, then we're worse off than I thought.

A simple "I have a coach right now and there's still alot of games to be played. Every position from players on up will be evaluated at the end of the season" would of sufficed. THAT'S what good owners do.....they squash the midseason coach talk till the end of the season, while putting their coaches and players feet to the fire.

Man, NO! Don't go back on what you said about McNair before. I read your earlier post and was going to respond to that one, but I just saw this one.

McNair gets it. He is not joking around. Read between the lines of that Chron article. It's all smoke and mirrors. He's putting on a public face. He clearly is not happy with Kubiak.

As you said in your earlier post, anyone who doesn't think McNair isn't happy is kidding themselves. I was convinced when I saw his face three days ago on CBS after the game. He was looking downright EVIL.

McNair is not pleased.

Seriously, read that Chron story carefully. It's not what you think it is.

GNTLEWOLF
12-02-2009, 07:03 AM
Man, NO! Don't go back on what you said about McNair before. I read your earlier post and was going to respond to that one, but I just saw this one.

McNair gets it. He is not joking around. Read between the lines of that Chron article. It's all smoke and mirrors. He's putting on a public face. He clearly is not happy with Kubiak.

As you said in your earlier post, anyone who doesn't think McNair isn't happy is kidding themselves. I was convinced when I saw his face three days ago on CBS after the game. He was looking downright EVIL.

McNair is not pleased.

Seriously, read that Chron story carefully. It's not what you think it is.

I don't know....the more I read it, the more convinced I am that this team is going to have to suffer Kubiak one more year.

Thorn
12-02-2009, 07:30 AM
What is said for public consumption and what is actually meant is often two different things, which is why interpreting what McNair said is difficult. All I can say is, I'm no longer attending the Sunshine Club meetings. I'm getting tired of waiting until next year.

My reaction to all this is actually funny. Before the season started I predicted a 9-7 (or 10-6) year, with Kubiak being back for the 2010 season. Which is what is probably going to happen. It's just before the season started I supported Kubiak, now I'm getting tired of him.

I'm still a fan, but I guess I've changed my mind on a few things during the season. Wouldn't suprise me a bit if I changed my mind on a few more things as time goes on.

BigBull17
12-03-2009, 01:50 PM
If we fire kubes we have to get shanahan or hire from the inside(the other shanahan?). what people do NOT realize is this team is built for kubes system. if we fire him and hire anybody else we basically have to rebuild. The new HC would want HIS players! that means new QB(maybe), RB, Oline, and Defensive players. that, IMO, would take longer and would lead to even more impatience. So if we do fire him go get shanahan. its basically the same system and all our players fit it.

The myth that you can't win in year one with a new coach are just that, a myth. Too many times we see awful teams get a new coach and be good. Why does it only take us 4 years?

Goldensilence
12-03-2009, 06:30 PM
The myth that you can't win in year one with a new coach are just that, a myth. Too many times we see awful teams get a new coach and be good. Why does it only take us 4 years?

Best example is the train wreck that used to be the Atlanta Falcons after Mike Vick and Bobby Petrino left.

Next is Parcells and Sprano overhauling the Phins. If Brown gets back healthy next year him and Henne make for good building blocks.

I just don't think it'll be the huge overhaul that some people are making it out to be as an excuse to keep Kubiak around and play safe. We'll have more cap room after dumping Dunta's inflated contract and ego to build defensively and I don't think we'll need a huge overhaul of the line. I think Caldwell can play in a power system as a center. We just need new guards.

Thorn
12-03-2009, 06:35 PM
Best example is the train wreck that used to be the Atlanta Falcons after Mike Vick and Bobby Petrino left.

Atlanta is 6-5 right now, and may not even make the playoffs this year. They had a good start with a new coach, but their success is not carrying forward that well.

Goldensilence
12-03-2009, 06:49 PM
Atlanta is 6-5 right now, and may not even make the playoffs this year. They had a good start with a new coach, but their success is not carrying forward that well.

Big game this coming weekend with Philly for sure. I still don't see them doing worse than 8-8 unless they drop games with Buffalo and TB. They should also have a healthy Mike Turner for the stretch run, big plus. They do need to get Ryan healthy ASAP though.

Still stands though I thought that team would take several years to deal with the turmoil, but they turned it around pretty quickly.

I'm just tired of seeing if we brought X coach in we'd have to wait for this massive roster turnover to be competitive again. I might be critical of the job that Kubiak and Smith have done but, they've assembled a decent roster, not the complete cluster**** that Capers and Casserly left.

Thorn
12-03-2009, 07:08 PM
I'm just tired of seeing if we brought X coach in we'd have to wait for this massive roster turnover to be competitive again. I might be critical of the job that Kubiak and Smith have done but, they've assembled a decent roster, not the complete cluster**** that Capers and Casserly left.

Quite true. Kubiak and Smith have had some hits and misses both, but over all this team after four years is a much better team than the one Casserly and Capers had after four years.