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View Full Version : Richie Justice says go with an NFL DC when looking for Kubiaks Replacement


nunusguy
11-30-2009, 12:53 PM
I'm not for hiring Bill Cowher, Mike Shanahan or Mike Holmgren. I'd hire Tony Dungy in a heartbeat, but he doesn't seem inclined to coach again. I'm for getting the next great thing.
If the Ravens and Falcons can get it right with unknown coaches, the Texans should be able to get it right, too. I think the Falcons got it right, too. If I'm in charge, I'm looking closely at the NFL's top 10 defensive coordinators. I'd go defense because those guys seem to be better at clock management and understanding the larger picture instead of just drawing up more exotic pass routes.Nor do I want some guy from television or a college program. I want a successful defensive coordinator, a guy that has been around winning teams, has directed winning defenses and been in big, important games.
Back in 2005, the Texans are light years from being any good. That's not true now. I'm not sure that'll make this latest loss go down any easier, but it's all I've got.
http://blogs.chron.com/sportsjustice/archives/2009/11/when_mcnair_sta.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+houstonchronicle%2Fsportsjust ice+%28SportsJustice%29

Norg
11-30-2009, 12:55 PM
Dick lambo LOL

badboy
11-30-2009, 01:01 PM
Just off the top of my head, I disagree with hiring a DC for Texans head coach. Our D seems to have gotten it together for most part & adding a CB (replace DR) and a FS and we should be good to go. I want more focus on the O. We seemed to be clicking pretty well despite losing two starting guards and a pro bowl TE. Slaton was not drafted to be the guy but when he was forced into the role, he exploded. Things have caught up with him and Kubes made the error of thinking "well we got yards with him last season, let's sit tight and get a washed up power back back there and we will be ok." Our OC is part of the problem. We need a head coach with strong offensive skills and leadership.

HoustonFrog
11-30-2009, 01:03 PM
I responded to his piece and have said it here in 2 separate HC Threads....if I did hire a DC it would be Mike Zimmer

MannyFresh
11-30-2009, 01:05 PM
I responded to his piece and have said it here in 2 separate HC Threads....if I did hire a DC it would be Mike Zimmer

Why not Wade Phillips for DC, surely Jerry is going to let him go.

HOU-TEX
11-30-2009, 01:05 PM
If Dick says it......don't do it.

Who cares what this ****stick says? I mean, seriously? I'd rather suck a fart from a dead chickens ass.

Pantherstang84
11-30-2009, 01:05 PM
Just off the top of my head, I disagree with hiring a DC for Texans head coach. Our D seems to have gotten it together for most part & adding a CB (replace DR) and a FS and we should be good to go. I want more focus on the O. We seemed to be clicking pretty well despite losing two starting guards and a pro bowl TE. Slaton was not drafted to be the guy but when he was forced into the role, he exploded. Things have caught up with him and Kubes made the error of thinking "well we got yards with him last season, let's sit tight and get a washed up power back back there and we will be ok." Our OC is part of the problem. We need a head coach with strong offensive skills and leadership.

You can't get a better offensive mind than Kubiak. Look not all coordinators (offensive or defensive) make good head coaches. End of discussion.

What Dickie is saying is that he wants to experiment again. Sorry. No Sale. We need a proven, winning, experienced coach. By Dickie's logic, we need to call up Mike Nolan in Denver. Yeah that worked out great in San Francisco.

blitz90
11-30-2009, 01:07 PM
I kind of agree with D-bag Dick on this one.

houstonspartan
11-30-2009, 01:10 PM
You can't get a better offensive mind than Kubiak. Look not all coordinators (offensive or defensive) make good head coaches. End of discussion.

What Dickie is saying is that he wants to experiment again. Sorry. No Sale. We need a proven, winning, experienced coach. By Dickie's logic, we need to call up Mike Nolan in Denver. Yeah that worked out great in San Francisco.

Agree 1000 percent with you. On all counts.

Kubiak=offensive genius.

And, no more rookie head coaches. NO MORE.

HoustonFrog
11-30-2009, 01:12 PM
Why not Wade Phillips for DC, surely Jerry is going to let him go.

I mean a DC as head coach..grab Zimmer if that is the case

Texan_Bill
11-30-2009, 01:12 PM
If Dick says it......don't do it.

Who cares what this ****stick says? I mean, seriously? I'd rather suck a fart from a dead chickens ass.

I was going to say if Dick says it, go for a Special Teams Coordinator.

:spit: Suck a what through a who???

Second Honeymoon
11-30-2009, 01:16 PM
Why not Wade Phillips for DC, surely Jerry is going to let him go.

Pokes are 8-3. Not too shabby especially considering Romo has had more than a few struggles and that their secondary has been a sivve at times.

I don't want a rookie head coach or the next big thing. I want someone who has already done it and can demand attention and respect throughout the organization and help energize the franchise and fanbase.

Guys like Cowher and Holmgren and yup, I am going to say it, Jimmy Johnson are guys that would come in and instantly change the whole mindset and perception of the franchise. Jimmy is too fond of Coronas and yachts to come back, but Cowher and Holmgren are both available.

We gotta jump on Cowher before Carolina comes calling. Carolina is the natural fit for him. Maybe McNair can use his Carolina connections to send a feeler out after the season if we fail to reach that testament to mediocrity 8-8.

Double Barrel
11-30-2009, 01:21 PM
I'm not for hiring Bill Cowher...

That's all I needed to know about Dick. Reading anything else from this turd just drops my own I.Q. level, which doesn't need to take any more hits.

nunusguy
11-30-2009, 01:26 PM
Looks like Richie is as popular as ever in these parts ?
I dunno but I'm guessing he has in mind a Bill Parcells clone, that is a clone of the guy at that age when he was selected to coach the Giants back in the Day.
But can you imagine Parcells being too nervous to watch FG attempts by his own kicker during a game ? No, Kubiak just doesn't seem to have the steel in his balls or the quick wits to make the right moves when he's under the gun on Sunday afternoons.

Hervoyel
11-30-2009, 01:39 PM
I'd like to chime in on this thread and state why I disagree with Richard Justice here.

First ask yourselves why we're firing Gary Kubiak. What is he missing that we're trying to find in a replacement coach? We've watched him coach for coming up on four years now and we know his team can play inspired football at times. We know he's imaginative and dedicated and capable of installing and running a powerful offense. What our team lacks is intensity, focus, direction, consistency, basically "leadership". Gary doesn't know how to get there. That's just "can't miss seeing it" at this point.

If you go get another coordinator you're bringing another man in who may or may not ever be able to provide that missing ingredient. We're all instantly on that guys bandwagon because Texans fans are desperate to see the corner turned. There are no ironclad guarantees however.

Who's coaching Pittsburgh right now? Who's coaching Indianapolis? The names of the predecessors are well known to me and yeah, I know the current coaches names but I didn't when they were hired to replace Dungy and Cowher.

Both of those men consistently won and established a winning tradition and mindset before leaving. The Belichick coaching tree, the Parcells coaching tree, there are reasons why people go back to these guys time and time again. No, not everybody that follows these coaches gets it right. That's true but the two men who followed Cowher and Dungy inherited a team that already knew everything it took to win. They inherited a system and a core set of beliefs that made their jobs much easier than that. Would you want to hire either of these guys away from Pittsburgh or Indianapolis if you could? Probably.

So why would anyone hesitate to hire one of the men who built the foundation that one of these guys succeeds on? If Dungy were available he'd be snapped up a moment and rightfully so. Cowher has a .623 winning percentage and a pair of Super Bowl trips. Dungy has a .668 winning percentage and a single Super Bowl trip. Both have rings.

Cowher won for 15 years. He knows how to win. If he stays 5 years here and is given the freedom to do what he needs to then there's no reason not to expect him to right this ship. More than that it's likely that if he does succeed our next head coach following Cowher's departure would come from inside our own organization. Instead of taking a chance on whether or not somebody elses coordinator is ready to step up why not hire a known quality head coach who will more than likely groom his own successor?

nunusguy
11-30-2009, 01:46 PM
FWIW, Gary Kubiak was a product of the Mike Shanahan winning tradition in Denver.

Second Honeymoon
11-30-2009, 01:48 PM
Cowher won for 15 years. He knows how to win. If he stays 5 years here and is given the freedom to do what he needs to then there's no reason not to expect him to right this ship. More than that it's likely that if he does succeed our next head coach following Cowher's departure would come from inside our own organization. Instead of taking a chance on whether or not somebody elses coordinator is ready to step up why not hire a known quality head coach who will more than likely groom his own successor?

Great point Herv. Cowher could go that far towards solidifying and legitimizing our franchise. You hire from within when you have success not when its convenient or cheap like hiring Bush from within. Bush has been OK but don't tell me Gregg Williams wouldn't have turned things around more. he would have like he did with a far worse defensive outfit in the Saints.

Another side note is that the offense is generally looked at as something that Kubiak has improved. Without a doubt, but Lil'Shanny has had a part in it too and he may not be part of Kubiak's staff next year if his dad gets a job and I am sure he will. That means we get a new OC next year either way or Kubiak has to focus more on that when he is already deficient as a Head Coach at game management, clock management, replay/review decisions, and at ingame/halftime adjustments.

And it is nice to not hear the 3-4 to 4-3 argument. Its football. 3-4 teams need to add a few true NTs and a few OLBs to go from a 4-3 to a 3-4. Smith and Mario could play DE in the scheme and could be better suited. It could force Mario to use more moves and handwork than just bullrushing or running yourself out of the play.

I don't read RJ because, even to me, his manboy love with VY is too much. Not an Astros fan either..so no RJ

and now that I read that he doesn't think the Texans should hire Cowher....I am glad I don't read him. Hearing him on 1560 tell tired old baseball stories about Baltimore Orioles players is enough RJ for me.

ArlingtonTexan
11-30-2009, 01:58 PM
Until Bob McNair makes a splashy hire, I am going to believe that the next hire (assuming that Kubiak is actually fired), will be a different version of the Caper/Kubiak solid man with good football experience. Not that Cowher is not that type of guy, but the at every turn, the Texans have almost shown an aversion making the highest of profile maneuver.

Hervoyel
11-30-2009, 02:02 PM
FWIW, Gary Kubiak was a product of the Mike Shanahan winning tradition in Denver.

Yes he was but as I said not every coach coming up from a successful tree is going to be capable of continuing that succeess.

We're not talking about hiring another assistant though. We're talking about hiring a guy who essentially "founded" on those successful coaching trees.

I don't understand why anyone would hesitate to do that. When you've never won anything at all how can there be resistance to a coach who wins consistently. He won with Bubby frigging Brister for crying out loud. He won with Kordell Stewart. Generally speaking he finds a way to win and all we do is find a way to lose.

HoustonFrog
11-30-2009, 02:06 PM
FWIW, Gary Kubiak was a product of the Mike Shanahan winning tradition in Denver.

The Elway tradition of winning

m5kwatts
11-30-2009, 02:10 PM
If it was up to Justice we'd hire the athletic director for the Longhorns for head coach and Earl Campbell to be his OC

nunusguy
11-30-2009, 02:19 PM
The Elway tradition of winning
O yea ! But when you say Jon Elway Froggy, in my case you're preaching to the choir, because I think he's the greatest QB ever, maybe the NFLs greatest offensive player ever.
And I would say the same thing about Indy - "The Manning tradition of winning". I dunno, but for all we know Dungy is just an average coach without Peyton. I mean from the looks of things they don't miss Dungy much at all there this year ?

Hervoyel
11-30-2009, 02:23 PM
O yea ! But when you say Jon Elway Froggy, in my case you're preaching to the choir, because I think he's the greatest QB ever, maybe the NFLs greatest offensive player ever.
And I would say the same thing about Indy - "The Manning tradition of winning". I dunno, but for all we know Dungy is just an average coach without Peyton. I mean from the looks of things they don't miss Dungy much at all there this year ?

Manning is a huge factor in Dungy's history but he won consistently in Tampa bay as well. Dungy is far from an average coach without Manning. Jon Gruden took Dungy's team to the Super Bowl. They should have sent Tony Dungy a ring for that one.

And Shanahan did win a great deal without Elway. He just didn't win anymore titles but who's to say he wouldn't have made it back there eventually.

(I dont' begrudge Gruden that win though, the team on the other side was his that somebody else took to the game as well so in my mind it all mostly works out).

TheRealJoker
11-30-2009, 02:31 PM
I am against hiring another hot shot coordinator because this city needs a big splash and the players (AJ) need a good-faith effort from the owner that we are taking the necessary steps to become a contender.

What better way to do that than to go after a coach with a track record of success AS A HEAD COACH?

I am frightened by the thought of AJ leaving town if he doesn't feel like things are gonna change AND SOON. But I think his uncle coming out and saying that is the best thing for the Texans to force a move that has a higher likelihood of success than "more of the same" (I.E. hiring someone who has never been a HC).

Capers was one of the top DCs in the league before we gave him a second chance to be a HC. He's better as a DC. Kubiak was one of the top OCs in the NFL for about a decade before we promoted him. He's better as a OC. Lets not make the same mistake three times.

Get Cowher (my preference), Holmgren, Marty, anybody with a proven track record. Hell, i'm not even above trading draft picks to take someone's HC like the Bucs did to get Gruden if that's what it takes to get a proven commodity that can get these players believing they just might be a part of a winner.

TEXANS84
11-30-2009, 02:33 PM
We should hire the defensive coordinator of the Packers.

Hagar
11-30-2009, 02:40 PM
If I'm in charge, I'm looking closely at the NFL's top 10 defensive coordinators. I'd go defense because those guys seem to be better at clock management and understanding the larger picture instead of just drawing up more exotic pass routesJust curious, what does he thing Cowher did before he became the Steelers head coach?

Cowher began his coaching career in 1985 at age 28 under Marty Schottenheimer with the Cleveland Browns. He was the Browns' special teams coach in 198586 and secondary coach in 198788 before following Schottenheimer to the Kansas City Chiefs in 1989 as defensive coordinator.

m5kwatts
11-30-2009, 02:42 PM
We should hire the defensive coordinator of the Packers.

I see what you did here..

Vinny
11-30-2009, 02:45 PM
why is anyone listening to Dick Justice?

HoustonFrog
11-30-2009, 02:49 PM
O yea ! But when you say Jon Elway Froggy, in my case you're preaching to the choir, because I think he's the greatest QB ever, maybe the NFLs greatest offensive player ever.
And I would say the same thing about Indy - "The Manning tradition of winning". I dunno, but for all we know Dungy is just an average coach without Peyton. I mean from the looks of things they don't miss Dungy much at all there this year ?

I like Shanahan alot. I am just wondering what happened the last 4 years or so when they collapsed late. Maybe his style just wore off. He did have a little run of 10-6, 10-6, 13-3..they just couldn't get it done and Pitt took them. Elway and TD helped his start alot though and he helped them.

why is anyone listening to Dick Justice?

I read this article but for the most part run away from RJ. Can't stand him. When he and Sean on 1560 had their TCU debate I wrote Sean commending him on his TCU stance and told him their station would be even better sans RJ. When I have heard him speak he really has limited knowledge on many subjects and he basically tells the same group fo stories. I think he write whatever to get a rise.

Second Honeymoon
11-30-2009, 02:51 PM
The Elway tradition of winning

dude, that was funny.

mussop
11-30-2009, 02:54 PM
Yeh Richard lets go out and hire Dom Capers. That one worked out for us huh?

Brisco_County
11-30-2009, 02:56 PM
I prefer Cowher because he focuses on fundamentals and physicality, but I'm afraid that he'll put us through a rebuilding year. Would he preserve the offense in its current form? Would he stick with the current 4-3? Doubt it.

It has taken Schaub two years to fluently execute this offensive scheme, and it's taken three years to build a decent defense. Conventional wisdom says to keep offensive and defensive schemes intact and build our lines. If Cowher's not willing to do that, then no deal.

The other option is Mike Shanahan, but I don't value him as highly after seeing what McDaniels was able to do with that team after Mike left.

Second Honeymoon
11-30-2009, 03:00 PM
I like Shanahan alot. I am just wondering what happened the last 4 years or so when they collapsed late. Maybe his style just wore off. He did have a little run of 10-6, 10-6, 13-3..they just couldn't get it done and Pitt took them. Elway and TD helped his start alot though and he helped them.



I read this article but for the most part run away from RJ. Can't stand him. When he and Sean on 1560 had their 1560 debate I wrote Sean commending him on his TCU stance and told him their station would be even better sans RJ. When I have heard him speak he really has limited knowledge on many subjects and he basically tells the same group fo stories. I think he write whatever to get a rise.

QB problems. Killer of many a fine coach, perhaps even our own Capers.

Once Plummer was gone, they didn't have a plan at QB. They never got a legit potential solution until Jay Cutler and then he came with his own problems and deficiencies as well. Shanahan didn't figure into the owner's plans because Jay was still making stupid plays and choking so he was fired and Jay was traded. Cutler was definitely better under Shanahan than he has been with Chicago so Shanny was coaching Jay up, it just wasn't up to the owner's standards and Shanahan had made some questionable draft picks.

Even with Cowher. He didn't win the SB until he got Big Ben. He got there once with Neil O'Donnell but we all know what happened then. If you don't have a QB you will look bad. Give Cowher and the coaching staff in that they will bring our talent on offense and we will lose nothing. We may even actually be able to run the ball on short yardage. Lord knows this ZBS (emphasize the BS) scheme that we run can't do it.

Cowher would come in and get stuff fixed real quick.

Texecutioner
11-30-2009, 03:16 PM
The Elway tradition of winning

Exactly. That was a lot more of Elway than it ever was of Shanny or Kubes. Elway made all of his coaches look good, just like Manning does now.

drewmar74
11-30-2009, 03:20 PM
I prefer Cowher because he focuses on fundamentals and physicality, but I'm afraid that he'll put us through a rebuilding year.

I could sooooo live through a rebuilding year if there was a light at the end of the tunnel.

Right now, all we're looking at is a tradition of 8-8. I'd gladly take one step back to take a bunch of steps forward. Right now we're not going anywhere.

badboy
11-30-2009, 03:39 PM
You can't get a better offensive mind than Kubiak. Look not all coordinators (offensive or defensive) make good head coaches. End of discussion.

What Dickie is saying is that he wants to experiment again. Sorry. No Sale. We need a proven, winning, experienced coach. By Dickie's logic, we need to call up Mike Nolan in Denver. Yeah that worked out great in San Francisco.So if one offensive guru can't cut it, you automatically pick the D guy? Not hardly. Your statement that not all Cs make good head coaches is right on and makes my point. Our defensive side of the ball is doing well and should be excellent with another piece or two in later rounds and removal of Dunta. The DC is making his side work, so you hire an offensive minded head coach. How much of our problem is Shannahan and how much is Kubes is not known. I do know if Kubes is covering for his coaches like Dom Capers did, he too may end up again as a coordinator.

badboy
11-30-2009, 03:49 PM
If it was up to Justice we'd hire the athletic director for the Longhorns for head coach and Earl Campbell to be his OC
At least that OC (Campbell) would understand need for a power back.

silvrhand
11-30-2009, 04:22 PM
Who cares what this ****stick says? I mean, seriously? I'd rather suck a fart from a dead chickens ass.

ROFL, repped for finding a new creative adjective to describe something you don't want to see happen. I needed that laugh.

silvrhand
11-30-2009, 04:26 PM
I am against hiring another hot shot coordinator because this city needs a big splash and the players (AJ) need a good-faith effort from the owner that we are taking the necessary steps to become a contender.

What better way to do that than to go after a coach with a track record of success AS A HEAD COACH?

Get Cowher (my preference), Holmgren, Marty, anybody with a proven track record. Hell, i'm not even above trading draft picks to take someone's HC like the Bucs did to get Gruden if that's what it takes to get a proven commodity that can get these players believing they just might be a part of a winner.

Do you draft a OL and try to make him a QB, or do you draft a QB? Honestly why go pick a risk, go with a known winner, bring us a WINNER McNair, this one is purely on you. Take Dunta's 9 million a year, fire him, and give it to Cowher/Holmgren.. and then when that's not enough cut out some piece of texas and make it CowerVille or osmething and build him a mountain.. whatever it takes to get a quality coach, just do it. NOONE will fault you for going for a WINNER! There is just too much coaching talent ready for a job right now.. Take advantage of the situation.