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eriadoc
11-29-2009, 04:23 PM
OK, first off, go ahead and fire Kubiak. I don't really care. His record deserves it, and he's a big boy, so he knew what was on the line.

Now that we have that out of the way, why the hell are so many of you giving the players a free pass? All season long, you ***** about individual players like Chris Myers, Chris Brown, Kris Brown, Antonio Weaver, Dunta Robinson, Amobi Okoye, John Busing, and even Mario Williams. Yet when we lose a game, it's all on the coaches? The players are the ones out there trying to execute the plan. Hell, Eric Winston addressed this on the radio saying he doesn't know where the hell y'all are coming from. He says they're as prepared as anyone, and then they go out and fail.

And I'm pretty sure it's not in the playcall for Schaub to make bad reads on the defense and throw pick sixes. In fact, I'm damn certain of it. I'm also sure the coaches didn't call for Slaton to fumble away the first half of the season. And some of you were bitching at Kubiak for not putting him back out there to fumble some more!! I'm pretty sure it's not in the playcall to carry the ball down low where the DL can swipe it out of your hands, especially when the same play was on film from Rosenfels last year.

Bottom line - you can fire the coaches all you want (and they will be fired, I'm sure, and deservedly so), but you're still going to be stuck with Schaub at QB, who looks great until it matters. You're still going to be stuck with an OL that looks good one quarter and plays like crap the next. You're still going to have a secondary that isn't up to par.

And the only reason we're even that good is because of Kubiak and the rest of the coaches. Oh, I know, Rick Smith is a god, blah blah blah. Kubiak hired Rick Smith, not the other way around.

Pantherstang84
11-29-2009, 04:25 PM
OK, first off, go ahead and fire Kubiak. I don't really care. His record deserves it, and he's a big boy, so he knew what was on the line.

Now that we have that out of the way, why the hell are so many of you giving the players a free pass? All season long, you ***** about individual players like Chris Myers, Chris Brown, Kris Brown, Antonio Weaver, Dunta Robinson, Amobi Okoye, John Busing, and even Mario Williams. Yet when we lose a game, it's all on the coaches? The players are the ones out there trying to execute the plan. Hell, Eric Winston addressed this on the radio saying he doesn't know where the hell y'all are coming from. He says they're as prepared as anyone, and then they go out and fail.

And I'm pretty sure it's not in the playcall for Schaub to make bad reads on the defense and throw pick sixes. In fact, I'm damn certain of it. I'm also sure the coaches didn't call for Slaton to fumble away the first half of the season. And some of you were bitching at Kubiak for not putting him back out there to fumble some more!! I'm pretty sure it's not in the playcall to carry the ball down low where the DL can swipe it out of your hands, especially when the same play was on film from Rosenfels last year.

Bottom line - you can fire the coaches all you want (and they will be fired, I'm sure, and deservedly so), but you're still going to be stuck with Schaub at QB, who looks great until it matters. You're still going to be stuck with an OL that looks good one quarter and plays like crap the next. You're still going to have a secondary that isn't up to par.

And the only reason we're even that good is because of Kubiak and the rest of the coaches. Oh, I know, Rick Smith is a god, blah blah blah. Kubiak hired Rick Smith, not the other way around.

Why are so sure that the new coaching staff will not make changes in the offseason on the roster?

Carr Bombed
11-29-2009, 04:29 PM
OK, first off, go ahead and fire Kubiak. I don't really care. His record deserves it, and he's a big boy, so he knew what was on the line.

Now that we have that out of the way, why the hell are so many of you giving the players a free pass? All season long, you ***** about individual players like Chris Myers, Chris Brown, Kris Brown, Antonio Weaver, Dunta Robinson, Amobi Okoye, John Busing, and even Mario Williams. Yet when we lose a game, it's all on the coaches? The players are the ones out there trying to execute the plan. Hell, Eric Winston addressed this on the radio saying he doesn't know where the hell y'all are coming from. He says they're as prepared as anyone, and then they go out and fail.

And I'm pretty sure it's not in the playcall for Schaub to make bad reads on the defense and throw pick sixes. In fact, I'm damn certain of it. I'm also sure the coaches didn't call for Slaton to fumble away the first half of the season. And some of you were bitching at Kubiak for not putting him back out there to fumble some more!! I'm pretty sure it's not in the playcall to carry the ball down low where the DL can swipe it out of your hands, especially when the same play was on film from Rosenfels last year.

Bottom line - you can fire the coaches all you want (and they will be fired, I'm sure, and deservedly so), but you're still going to be stuck with Schaub at QB, who looks great until it matters. You're still going to be stuck with an OL that looks good one quarter and plays like crap the next. You're still going to have a secondary that isn't up to par.

And the only reason we're even that good is because of Kubiak and the rest of the coaches. Oh, I know, Rick Smith is a god, blah blah blah. Kubiak hired Rick Smith, not the other way around.

:rolleyes:

Kubiak is the one sticking all those players out there regardless if we know and everybody else in the NFL knows that they suck.

Kubiak is the reason why Myers is our starting center.... Kubiak is the reason why Dunta hasn't been benched yet despite the fact that he picks up a PI call in just about every game. Kubiak is the one who brought this PANSY ASS offensive line scheme that has cost us so many games and Kubiak is the one who brought the outdated ZBS w/ Alex Gibbs and the philosophy that you don't need to make a big investment to get a big time RB......which has cost us even more games. The inconsistent running game has killed this team and has been his biggest black eye throughout his 4 year span here.


Kubiak can kick rocks for all I care and all the excuse making for him is getting old....when you get down to it, He simply is NOT A HEAD COACH. He never has been....he mentioned the flaws since day one and just prayed he could grow into the position, but he hasn't been able to do it.

eriadoc
11-29-2009, 04:32 PM
Why are so sure that the new coaching staff will not make changes in the offseason on the roster?

I hope like hell they will, just like Kubiak has done every season he's been here. Turning over an entire roster takes time, unless you have an owner who just starts to shell out stupid money like Dan Snyder.

:rolleyes:

Kubiak is the one sticking all those players out there regardless if we know and everybody else in the NFL knows that they suck.

Kubiak is the reason why Myers is our starting center.... Kubiak is the reason why Dunta hasn't been benched yet despite the fact that he picks up a PI call in just about every game. Kubiak is the one who brought this PANSY ASS offensive line scheme that has cost us so many games and Kubiak is the one who brought the outdated ZBS and the philosiphy that you don't need to make a big investment to get a big time RB......which has cost us even more games.

Kubiak can kick rocks for all I care and all the excuse making for him is getting old.

First off, you're right about Kubiak putting them out there. So he will get fired, as I said.

Now, separately (try and develop a parallel thought process), the players play like crap. It doesn't matter who put them on the field for the 60 minutes during a game. That evaluation takes place in the offseason. The players are not getting the job done, and all the excuse making for them is getting old.

mussop
11-29-2009, 04:52 PM
Well the good thing is if Kubiak gets fired then most likely the new coach will clean house of the players that arent getting it done.

Carr Bombed
11-29-2009, 05:06 PM
I hope like hell they will, just like Kubiak has done every season he's been here. Turning over an entire roster takes time, unless you have an owner who just starts to shell out stupid money like Dan Snyder.



First off, you're right about Kubiak putting them out there. So he will get fired, as I said.

Now, separately (try and develop a parallel thought process), the players play like crap. It doesn't matter who put them on the field for the 60 minutes during a game. That evaluation takes place in the offseason. The players are not getting the job done, and all the excuse making for them is getting old.

I don't really see people making excuses for them. I've stated for a couple of years that Myers sucks ass, that Slaton will have a off year this season, and that Dunta needs to go and he's our worst corner.

People are making excuses for Schaub, but maybe it's just obvious that Schuab isn't a QB who you can solely put the game on his arm and he needs a good running game.

A part of good coaching is putting players in best position to succeed.

Making Dunta who's can no longer start in this league start every week....is not good coaching and all you're doing is setting him up for failure.

Making Myers your starting center when it's obvious he physically isn't strong enough is just setting him up for failure also.

Asking Schaub to pass nearly every damn down is setting him up for failure also.....that and sticking him behind the softest offensive line.

Not getting your breakout receiver and this year's best playmaker on the field more often is not putting your players in position to succeed either......but if by some miracle Kubes gets another year I'm sure we'll hear the famous quote "Well I should've gotten him on the field more often" :rolleyes: like we heard with Kevin Walter.

The guy simply sits on his hands and takes too long to make the moves that NEED TO BE MADE and moves that most successful head coaches routinely make on the fly.

Vinny has been right since day 1.......this team moves at a glacial pace.

Imatexanfan
11-29-2009, 05:09 PM
Well the good thing is if Kubiak gets fired then most likely the new coach will clean house of the players that arent getting it done.

Exactly, but we will be back to square one...:brando:

Carr Bombed
11-29-2009, 05:22 PM
Exactly, but we will be back to square one...:brando:

If square one is 8-8... we're at square one right now.

This team has too much talent to take a complete nose dive....even with a new coach. We hire the right coach and we should be competing for a playoff spot. ala Falcons and Ravens '08

Honoring Earl 34
11-29-2009, 05:24 PM
The Texans have that it factor . The problem is , there's a sh in front of it .

Carr Bombed
11-29-2009, 05:28 PM
The Texans have that it factor . The problem is , there's a sh in front of it .

LMAO.....sad, but true.

brakos82
11-29-2009, 05:29 PM
The Texans have that it factor . The problem is , there's a sh in front of it .
You're lucky I was in between beers, or else :spit:.

Goatcheese
11-29-2009, 05:48 PM
Yes, lets have some accountability.

Andre Johnson is near the top of the league in drops. I think only TO has more.
Steve Slaton can't hold onto the football, or see a running lane to save his life.
Schaub has 2 complete WTF moments every damn game, even if they don't show up on the stat sheet.
The O-line stinks. Nothing more needs to be said.
Brown is the worst "power back" EVER.
Our D-Line doesn't provide consistent pressure, and other than a 4-5 game stretch has sucked something fierce against the run.
Smith sucks against the run. Yes, he warrants special notice.
After a promising start to the season Okoye is fading.
Ryans can't cover.
Cushing can't cover, but atleast he makes big plays to make up for it.
Diles has been getting worse against the run as the season has gone on.
Pollard can't cover.
Wilson can't stay healthy. Not his fault, but damn.
Our backups in the secondary stink.
D-Rob needs to keep his hands to himself in coverage, and learn how to form tackle.
Kubiak has no killer instinct, coaches scared, sucks at challenges, and has made terrible personnel decisions.
Bush is back to being a bad DC.
We have what, 5 O-Line coaches, and they can't produce a decent line? Srsly?
Rick Smith has been here for 3 years now, and Cushing is probably going to be his only probowler.

and so on.

Maddict5
11-29-2009, 05:52 PM
Yes, lets have some accountability.

Andre Johnson is near the top of the league in drops. I think only TO has more.
Steve Slaton can't hold onto the football, or see a running lane to save his life.
Schaub has 2 complete WTF moments every damn game, even if they don't show up on the stat sheet.
The O-line stinks. Nothing more needs to be said.
Brown is the worst "power back" EVER.
Our D-Line doesn't provide consistent pressure, and other than a 4-5 game stretch has sucked something fierce against the run.
Smith sucks against the run. Yes, he warrants special notice.
After a promising start to the season Okoye is fading.
Ryans can't cover.
Cushing can't cover, but atleast he makes big plays to make up for it.
Diles has been getting worse against the run as the season has gone on.
Pollard can't cover.
Wilson can't stay healthy. Not his fault, but damn.
Our backups in the secondary stink.
D-Rob needs to keep his hands to himself in coverage, and learn how to form tackle.
Kubiak has no killer instinct, coaches scared, sucks at challenges, and has made terrible personnel decisions.
Bush is back to being a bad DC.
We have what, 5 O-Line coaches, and they can't produce a decent line? Srsly?
Rick Smith has been here for 3 years now, and Cushing is probably going to be his only probowler.

and so on.

:rolleyes:

geez kubiak should be coach of the year for even managing to win 1 game this year with all the crap players on this team. did i mention :rolleyes:?

Goatcheese
11-29-2009, 05:54 PM
:rolleyes:

geez kubiak should be coach of the year for even managing to win 1 game this year with all the crap players on this team. did i mention :rolleyes:?

The thread is about accountability. Just because a player is good doesn't mean they don't do things wrong.

If you don't want to read about players being held accountable, then... don't read a thread titled "Accountability". It's just that simple.

jerek
11-29-2009, 05:57 PM
Great coaches put players in a position to win the game.

So say Kubiak isn't a great coach, call him average even.

Looked like the players didn't hold up their end of the bargain.

Norg
11-29-2009, 06:32 PM
Fire coaches and players 2002

They suck


Get new ones 2003

they suck

Fire them get new ones 2004

THey suck

Fire them get new ones 2007

They suck

Fire them 2009

get new ones 2010 ???????????????????????????


Its a vicious cycle

HJam72
11-29-2009, 07:22 PM
Fire coaches and players 2002

They suck


Get new ones 2003

they suck

Fire them get new ones 2004

THey suck

Fire them get new ones 2007

They suck

Fire them 2009

get new ones 2010 ???????????????????????????


Its a vicious cycle

Yes, it is. We need to stop it! Fire everyone and start over!

Livid13
11-29-2009, 07:46 PM
Forget the , "FIRE EVERYONE" mentality for just a second. I know you all are just as mad, disgusted and shell schocked as I am. Here's my question. WHO DO YOU HAVE TO ****, IN ORDER TO GET 60 MINUTES OF NFL FOOTBALL ?

Carr Bombed
11-29-2009, 07:55 PM
Fire coaches and players 2002

They suck


Get new ones 2003

they suck

Fire them get new ones 2004

THey suck

Fire them get new ones 2007

They suck

Fire them 2009

get new ones 2010 ???????????????????????????


Its a vicious cycle


LMAO......we've only cleaned house one time. You're making up cycles to make some case that isn't even there. LOL, who the hell did we "fire" in 2002?

eriadoc
11-29-2009, 08:49 PM
Yes, lets have some accountability.

Andre Johnson is near the top of the league in drops. I think only TO has more.
Steve Slaton can't hold onto the football, or see a running lane to save his life.
Schaub has 2 complete WTF moments every damn game, even if they don't show up on the stat sheet.
The O-line stinks. Nothing more needs to be said.
Brown is the worst "power back" EVER.
Our D-Line doesn't provide consistent pressure, and other than a 4-5 game stretch has sucked something fierce against the run.
Smith sucks against the run. Yes, he warrants special notice.
After a promising start to the season Okoye is fading.
Ryans can't cover.
Cushing can't cover, but atleast he makes big plays to make up for it.
Diles has been getting worse against the run as the season has gone on.
Pollard can't cover.
Wilson can't stay healthy. Not his fault, but damn.
Our backups in the secondary stink.
D-Rob needs to keep his hands to himself in coverage, and learn how to form tackle.
Kubiak has no killer instinct, coaches scared, sucks at challenges, and has made terrible personnel decisions.
Bush is back to being a bad DC.
We have what, 5 O-Line coaches, and they can't produce a decent line? Srsly?
Rick Smith has been here for 3 years now, and Cushing is probably going to be his only probowler.

and so on.

Rep.

Great coaches put players in a position to win the game.

So say Kubiak isn't a great coach, call him average even.

Looked like the players didn't hold up their end of the bargain.

That's it. The coaches haven't done their job as well as a championship staff should, but I think people are deluding themselves into believing that firing Kubiak is going to solve this team's problems.

This team still has holes. That's just a reality spawned from the garbage that Kubiak inherited. Sure, he's gotten almost all the players currently on the roster, but you really think John Busing would be on alf the NFL's rosters? Think Zac Diles would be a starter? Shaun Cody shouldn't be a starter. Studdard, Brisiel, and Myers shouldn't be starting. Some of our backups might not make a good team's roster. So you can say that Kubiak got them, so it's his fault, but look at who else he has gotten. There are only so many draft picks to go around, and this regime hasn't done too shabby, all things considered. They've missed on a few, but other teams have missed more.

That doesn't excuse Kubiak's game management at all, but it does illustrate that we still have a talent gap to overcome, mostly in the trenches.

Vinny
11-29-2009, 09:02 PM
Rep.



That's it. The coaches haven't done their job as well as a championship staff should, but I think people are deluding themselves into believing that firing Kubiak is going to solve this team's problems.

This team still has holes.
all teams have holes and this current team is good enough to make the playoffs if coached well, but since we are 5-6 and not gonna win any tiebreakers the team is set up to be the best team in the league when nothing is on the line again. Watching Kubiak coach this team is like watching Colonel Klink, and Sergeant "Rick" Schultz manage their concentration camp with all the control and efficiency of a Gary Kubiak managed game plan.

Hervoyel
11-29-2009, 09:06 PM
OK, first off, go ahead and fire Kubiak. I don't really care. His record deserves it, and he's a big boy, so he knew what was on the line.

Now that we have that out of the way, why the hell are so many of you giving the players a free pass? All season long, you ***** about individual players like Chris Myers, Chris Brown, Kris Brown, Antonio Weaver, Dunta Robinson, Amobi Okoye, John Busing, and even Mario Williams. Yet when we lose a game, it's all on the coaches? The players are the ones out there trying to execute the plan. Hell, Eric Winston addressed this on the radio saying he doesn't know where the hell y'all are coming from. He says they're as prepared as anyone, and then they go out and fail.

And I'm pretty sure it's not in the playcall for Schaub to make bad reads on the defense and throw pick sixes. In fact, I'm damn certain of it. I'm also sure the coaches didn't call for Slaton to fumble away the first half of the season. And some of you were bitching at Kubiak for not putting him back out there to fumble some more!! I'm pretty sure it's not in the playcall to carry the ball down low where the DL can swipe it out of your hands, especially when the same play was on film from Rosenfels last year.

Bottom line - you can fire the coaches all you want (and they will be fired, I'm sure, and deservedly so), but you're still going to be stuck with Schaub at QB, who looks great until it matters. You're still going to be stuck with an OL that looks good one quarter and plays like crap the next. You're still going to have a secondary that isn't up to par.

And the only reason we're even that good is because of Kubiak and the rest of the coaches. Oh, I know, Rick Smith is a god, blah blah blah. Kubiak hired Rick Smith, not the other way around.

I see plenty of accountability directed at players. I see people upset at Kris Brown for the past couple of weeks and I see people today talking about Schaub and Dunta and their "contributions" to this loss.

If one or two players had come out for the second half in a stupor that would be one thing. If the team had come out for the second half sleepwalking for the first time this season that would be one thing. Instead the entire team, for the umpteenth time this season came out of the locker room like they thought the game was over and stumbled around the field playing mistake filled football until they'd squandered their lead and lost the game. This is every damned week with these players.

That's on the coaches. Getting the team ready to play is on these coaches. Getting them back on focus after a disasterous first half is on the coaches. Now Eric Winston may say that the coaches have them ready to play every week and that they just don't do what they're supposed to but how many people go on record calling their boss out publicly in this world?

What Eric Winston says in an interview on the radio about the job any of his coaches is doing I take with a 10 lb salt lick. I don't have a doubt in my mind that they all like Gary Kubiak. Pretty much all of us like Gary Kubiak. I'd invite the son of a ***** to have Thanksgiving dinner with my family. I'm sure he's a wonderful person but he's not getting this team ready to play week in and week out, hell he can't even keep them focused from one half to another. He's a terrible game manager, lousy at clock management, and routinely calls plays that have his best players on the sideline at important points in the game. I sat with Vinny and Double Barrel today watching this debacle and I lost count of how many times I saw AJ come out when we needed a first down. Our best player and he's coming out in favor of David Anderson and Kevin Walter?

Nope, sorry. This one's on "Super Genius" over there in the corner thinking he's smarter than everybody else around him. I'm glad Kubiak didn't get the job when he originally interviewed for it back in the beginning. Can you imagine this guy and Casserly coexisting? They both think they're smarter than everybody else in the room. Houston couldn't have taken such a meeting of the minds.

New_Texans
11-29-2009, 09:09 PM
Kubiak needs to go.

eriadoc
11-29-2009, 09:23 PM
I see plenty of accountability directed at players. I see people upset at Kris Brown for the past couple of weeks and I see people today talking about Schaub and Dunta and their "contributions" to this loss.

In today's gameday thread, the minute Schaub threw the INT, people started calling for Kubiak's head. I don't disagree that Kuiak ought to be fired. I agree with Vinny's take just about 100%. But you don't watch Matt Schaub throw an ill-advised INT and start blaming Kubiak. It's pretty ridiculous. There are reasons to fire Kubiak, but Schaubterceptions (to steal your word) shouldn't be one. Having four "tacklers" bounce off a no-name RB on his way to the end zone has nothing to do with Kubiak (or Bush, for that matter).

For those of you who keep the Kubiak conversation rational, this thread isn't really directed at you.

Hervoyel
11-29-2009, 09:37 PM
I get what you're saying. I was annoyed at the game that we took the shot downfield in the first place. I thought we were trying to put together long, clock eating drives to keep jugghead on the sideline and then all of a sudden we're trying to drive a dagger home that we don't even have in our hands.

Kimmy
11-29-2009, 09:50 PM
If we fire Kubiak and a new coach comes in, changes players and schemes ... are we all willing to wait at least another three years for a playoff birth?

I'm waffling right now ... I could go either way

Hervoyel
11-29-2009, 09:56 PM
If we fire Kubiak and a new coach comes in, changes players and schemes ... are we all willing to wait at least another three years for a playoff birth?

I'm waffling right now ... I could go either way

I don't believe that would be necessary at all. The pantry isn't bare like it was when Kubiak arrived. There is talent here on both sides of the ball. We have a defense that can play at a very high level as long as they aren't asked to stay out there almost an entire half by an offense that has shut down for the day. We have an offense that is in theory capable of hanging 30-35 points on anybody if they can be coaxed into playing both halves of a football game.

Now maybe some pieces aren't as good a fit as others but for the most part we should be competitive rather quickly.

Jackie Chiles
11-29-2009, 09:59 PM
I don't believe that would be necessary at all. The pantry isn't bare like it was when Kubiak arrived. There is talent here on both sides of the ball. We have a defense that can play at a very high level as long as they aren't asked to stay out there almost an entire half by an offense that has shut down for the day. We have an offense that is in theory capable of hanging 30-35 points on anybody if they can be coaxed into playing both halves of a football game.

Now maybe some pieces aren't as good a fit as others but for the most part we should be competitive rather quickly.

Not only do we have some good players in place but we should have a decent amount of cash to spend, especially once we unload the 10 mil Dunta is making.

Honoring Earl 34
11-29-2009, 10:07 PM
We made SI .

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/don_banks/11/29/week12.snaps/index.html?eref=sihp

You have to wonder what more Texans owner Bob McNair needs to see? Gary Kubiak's team can't finish, and because of it, he should be finished after this, his fourth season in Houston. Despite being a trendy pick to make the playoffs, the Texans will only wind up reinforcing the trend they've followed all eight years of their existence and miss the postseason. Houston is now a mind-boggling 1-15 against the Colts, who are still the class of its division.

Norg
11-30-2009, 12:10 AM
LMAO......we've only cleaned house one time. You're making up cycles to make some case that isn't even there. LOL, who the hell did we "fire" in 2002?


iam talking about sub coaches and players

teams get rid of players and sub coaches almost every year

If we switch coaches yeah we have talent but still coaches sometimes new coaches want to bring in some of there boys change schems and maybe to a 3-4 these things take time deping on how quickly the franchise adjusts