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m5kwatts
11-29-2009, 02:56 PM
Don't blame Schaub for what happened today or for the Texans' seasonal collapse. First off, you're not going to find an upgrade to him in the offseason. Free agency or draft does not provide franchise QBs over night especially not an upgrade to what we already have.

Secondly, it wasn't Schaub calling naked bootleg rollouts to start the 2nd half. It wasn't him continuing to call naked bootleg rollouts after the Colts scored. Why weren't we running it? Can we please manage a game correctly and play the clock? UGH. The coaching was AWFUL today. Abysmal. The staff lost the game today.

DexmanC
11-29-2009, 02:57 PM
Gotta co-sign this. I'm sure Mr. Mcnair feels the same way.

Porky
11-29-2009, 03:03 PM
Schaub had an A grade in half 1 and a F grade in half two. How can you leave him blameless? Schaub was HORRIBLE in the 2nd half. HORRRIBLE. He choked. The staff choked. The D choked. The freaking water boy choked. This is the not ready for prime time players.

I do agree in keeping Schaub at this point, but we need a coaching staff that can actually coach. This staff sucks.

wagonhed
11-29-2009, 03:06 PM
Schaub is a very good quarterback. He threw as many ints as Manning did today. It's really hard to put blame for the 2nd half on Schaub when the playcalling and coaching was as terrible as it was.

m5kwatts
11-29-2009, 03:08 PM
Schaub had an A grade in half 1 and a F grade in half two. How can you leave him blameless? Schaub was HORRIBLE in the 2nd half. HORRRIBLE. He choked. The staff choked. The D choked. The freaking water boy choked. This is the not ready for prime time players.

I do agree in keeping Schaub at this point, but we need a coaching staff that can actually coach. This staff sucks.

Schaub's just running the plays that are called. He isn't given permission to audible. I remember 2 naked rollouts where the end met Schaub before he could even turn around. That is DUMB playcalling. Schaub should atleast be able to look at the defense and audible out of garbage like that. We should have gone into protect mode and ran the friggin ball in the 2nd half. That would've helped Schaub immensely.

Dread-Head
11-29-2009, 03:08 PM
won't putt it ALL on him...but won' call him BLAMELESS either.

bah007
11-29-2009, 03:08 PM
I don't put the loss on Schaub's shoulders but there is certainly a lot of blame that should be directed at him. The dude was absolutely terrible in the second half. He is far from the only one, but let's not pretend like he didn't contribute to the problem with his play in the second half.

Esoom
11-29-2009, 03:10 PM
Schaub did make quite a few ugly passes in the second half, but the playcalling was overwhelmingly awful.

checo446
11-29-2009, 03:10 PM
I don't put the loss on Schaub's shoulders but there is certainly a lot of blame that should be directed at him. The dude was absolutely terrible in the second half. He is far from the only one, but let's not pretend like he didn't contribute to the problem with his play in the second half.


Exactly.

m5kwatts
11-29-2009, 03:11 PM
Schaub deserves blame but he doesn't deserve "lets replace him now" kind of blame like the coaching staff deserves.

Malloy
11-29-2009, 03:13 PM
Horrible dumbass playcalling coming out in the second half, why not stick to running the ball and the occational play action, we had the Colts in the bag in the first half doing this, why stop when we're sitting on the game?

I am 100% sure that our playcalling, yet again, killed the game for us, are we getting rid of Shanny junior or is it Kubiak calling it?

eriadoc
11-29-2009, 03:15 PM
I call BS. Schaub played like ass in the second half. He made stupid throws, bad throws, and that fumble was 100% on him. You don't hold the ball out there like that and expect anything less. And the fact that we can't get an upgrade to him immediately doesn't mean you hold him blameless.

The coaches deserve their share of the blame, and they'll get it by losing their jobs. What do the players get? A free pass from many of you, and millions of dollars along the way.

TexansBlood
11-29-2009, 03:15 PM
It was'nt all his fault but him and AJ were'nt in the same page in some routes.. False starts playing at home is embarrasing, AJ dropped that catch and it hurt us, Antonio Smith with those 15 yd penalties, Dunta could have done better, not playing Jacoby Jones till the last 2 mins of the game. I blame Gary Kubiak for this loss and season!

fikster
11-29-2009, 03:19 PM
[QUOTE=m5kwatts;1310784]Don't blame Schaub for what happened today or for the Texans' seasonal collapse. First off, you're not going to find an upgrade to him in the offseason. Free agency or draft does not provide franchise QBs over night especially not an upgrade to what we already have.

Secondly, it wasn't Schaub calling naked bootleg rollouts to start the 2nd half. It wasn't him continuing to call naked bootleg rollouts after the Colts scored. Why weren't we running it? Can we please manage a game correctly and play the clock? UGH. The coaching was AWFUL today. Abysmal. The staff lost the game today.[/QUOT

Schaub is responsible for this too. Along with the staff. Didn't we trade for him in an offseason when there wasn't much in free agency or the draft? Why can't we trade again, since you say the offseason looks bleak.

m5kwatts
11-29-2009, 03:20 PM
I call BS. Schaub played like ass in the second half. He made stupid throws, bad throws, and that fumble was 100% on him. You don't hold the ball out there like that and expect anything less. And the fact that we can't get an upgrade to him immediately doesn't mean you hold him blameless.

The coaches deserve their share of the blame, and they'll get it by losing their jobs. What do the players get? A free pass from many of you, and millions of dollars along the way.

Did you miss the first half? We have the players in place to make plays. Our QB was on fire. Then our coaching reared its ugly head and managed the game horribly. The fumble was in Schaub's blind side completely, he can't account for guys he can't see. The pick 6 was Schaub's fault, he didn't account for Brackett sitting on that route. But come on, Schaub's poor second half performance is way more than just him turning $ucky in a matter of minutes. How does a QB go from looking awesome to awful from one half to the next? It SHOULDNT HAPPEN. I wanna think its Schaub but he shows his upside. The staff does not do him any favors.

m5kwatts
11-29-2009, 03:21 PM
[QUOTE=m5kwatts;1310784]Don't blame Schaub for what happened today or for the Texans' seasonal collapse. First off, you're not going to find an upgrade to him in the offseason. Free agency or draft does not provide franchise QBs over night especially not an upgrade to what we already have.

Secondly, it wasn't Schaub calling naked bootleg rollouts to start the 2nd half. It wasn't him continuing to call naked bootleg rollouts after the Colts scored. Why weren't we running it? Can we please manage a game correctly and play the clock? UGH. The coaching was AWFUL today. Abysmal. The staff lost the game today.[/QUOT

Schaub is responsible for this too. Along with the staff. Didn't we trade for him in an offseason when there wasn't much in free agency or the draft? Why can't we trade again, since you say the offseason looks bleak.

Schaub is going to make the pro bowl this year. Do you see any possible pro bowlers serving as backup QBs to go get in a trade? And do you really wanna give up 1st or 2nd round picks when we already gave up 2 2nd rounders for Schaub just 3 years ago? Thats not smart.

Esoom
11-29-2009, 03:23 PM
[QUOTE=m5kwatts;1310784]Don't blame Schaub for what happened today or for the Texans' seasonal collapse. First off, you're not going to find an upgrade to him in the offseason. Free agency or draft does not provide franchise QBs over night especially not an upgrade to what we already have.

Secondly, it wasn't Schaub calling naked bootleg rollouts to start the 2nd half. It wasn't him continuing to call naked bootleg rollouts after the Colts scored. Why weren't we running it? Can we please manage a game correctly and play the clock? UGH. The coaching was AWFUL today. Abysmal. The staff lost the game today.[/QUOT

Schaub is responsible for this too. Along with the staff. Didn't we trade for him in an offseason when there wasn't much in free agency or the draft? Why can't we trade again, since you say the offseason looks bleak.

Are you serious? This is the only game all year where he played poorly, and it was only for a half and you want to trade for a new QB in the offseason. He is one of the best Quarterbacks in the league.

wagonhed
11-29-2009, 03:26 PM
Yeah, some posts in this thread are a freaking joke. You're talking about replacing one of the best players on our team? Brilliant.

sometexansfan
11-29-2009, 03:26 PM
Schaub's a pretty good QB, but he still has those WTF moments. I don't blame him entirely for the loss, but he sure didn't help too much in the second half. I know the play calling was poor, but that pass to Session, come on man. Come on.

eriadoc
11-29-2009, 03:27 PM
Did you miss the first half?

Did you miss the second half? Those same players choked when it was on the line. The coaches didn't call a play that consists of having four defenders bounce off of Chad Simpson, or Tad Simpson, or whoever the **** that was. The coaches didn't call a play that involved Matt Schaub making a bad read and throwing that out pattern that the DB was sitting on. The coaches didn't call a play that involved Matt Schaub holding the ball down low so the DL could swipe at it.

That shit was on the players. Sure, the coaches could have called different plays; maybe they could have been more aggressive at times. But what makes you think those same players that showed up in the second half and played like crap would all of a sudden play differently? The players have been consistent in one ting all season - showing up for half a football game. Coaches make calls, players make plays (well, not our players).

And I'm not advocating canning Schaub, either. But when he plays like shit, I'm not going to blame the coaches for it. Schaub played like shit for half a game today. It's just that simple, but everyone is looking for someone else to blame.

m5kwatts
11-29-2009, 03:28 PM
Schaub's a pretty good QB, but he still has those WTF moments. I don't blame him entirely for the loss, but he sure didn't help too much in the second half. I know the play calling was poor, but that pass to Session, come on man. Come on.

Manning had 2 WTF moments today. No QB is perfect.

Goatcheese
11-29-2009, 03:29 PM
The two INTs were all on him and were just flat out ugly, but there's nothing he could do about the fumble. That's on Brown for getting destroyed. He has to atleast yell a warning or something that he just polymorphed into a turnstile.

It was also his 1st lost fumble of the season.

Esoom
11-29-2009, 03:31 PM
Did you miss the second half? Those same players choked when it was on the line. The coaches didn't call a play that consists of having four defenders bounce off of Chad Simpson, or Tad Simpson, or whoever the **** that was. The coaches didn't call a play that involved Matt Schaub making a bad read and throwing that out pattern that the DB was sitting on. The coaches didn't call a play that involved Matt Schaub holding the ball down low so the DL could swipe at it.

That shit was on the players. Sure, the coaches could have called different plays; maybe they could have been more aggressive at times. But what makes you think those same players that showed up in the second half and played like crap would all of a sudden play differently? The players have been consistent in one ting all season - showing up for half a football game. Coaches make calls, players make plays (well, not our players).

Yeah it would be great to have players that never made mistakes and always made the tackle. I'm sure every team in the league wishes they could say that, but we've got the players that we've got. The players can only execute to the best of their ability the plays that are run. If those plays suck, the players look terrible by association.

m5kwatts
11-29-2009, 03:32 PM
Did you miss the second half? Those same players choked when it was on the line. The coaches didn't call a play that consists of having four defenders bounce off of Chad Simpson, or Tad Simpson, or whoever the **** that was. The coaches didn't call a play that involved Matt Schaub making a bad read and throwing that out pattern that the DB was sitting on. The coaches didn't call a play that involved Matt Schaub holding the ball down low so the DL could swipe at it.

That shit was on the players. Sure, the coaches could have called different plays; maybe they could have been more aggressive at times. But what makes you think those same players that showed up in the second half and played like crap would all of a sudden play differently? The players have been consistent in one ting all season - showing up for half a football game. Coaches make calls, players make plays (well, not our players).

So what was Schaub supposed to do when we called naked play-action rollout 10 yards away from a safety and a defensive end is right in his face? Thats called putting your players in a poor position to succeed. Whats amazing is after this happend they STILL kept calling naked rollouts and the Colts' ends were right on it. That is DUMB and a fireable offense. Run the ball when you have a lead especially against Manning. Its that simple. Did you see how exhausted our defense was all 2nd half? Thats because the offense was running stupid pass plays that stopped the clock and gave the Colts the ball back immediately. The players were put in AWFUL positions to succeed.

sometexansfan
11-29-2009, 03:33 PM
Manning had 2 WTF moments today. No QB is perfect.

Never said he was perfect. People make mistakes I understand that. Schaub has become a good QB for us, I don't want to get rid of him. But you're down 1 point and you throw right to the linebacker who has a clear path to the endzone? You just can't do that.

Wolf
11-29-2009, 03:33 PM
Schaub is part of the team.. he had two INT's and a fumble in the 2nd half. I am not one to say he needs to be replaced but he is part of that offense that shot blanks until very late in the 4th

eriadoc
11-29-2009, 03:36 PM
Never said he was perfect. People make mistakes I understand that. Schaub has become a good QB for us, I don't want to get rid of him. But you're down 1 point and you throw right to the linebacker who has a clear path to the endzone? You just can't do that.

Schaub is part of the team.. he had two INT's and a fumble in the 2nd half. I am not one to say he needs to be replaced but he is part of that offense that shot blanks until very late in the 4th

And that's it, really. It's that simple. Stop making excuses for the players. They're big boys and they make a ton of money. When the coach is bad, the coach gets fired. When the players are bad, the coach gets fired. So that part doesn't matter. The coach is going to be fired anyway. What about the players? They still suck? (well, intermittently)

TexansBlood
11-29-2009, 03:37 PM
How about blaming the defense, 28 unanswered points!!

sometexansfan
11-29-2009, 03:39 PM
How about blaming the defense, 28 unanswered points!!

There's plenty of blame to go around for everyone.

Dan B.
11-29-2009, 03:39 PM
Still, let's remember that Cowher turned Tommy Maddox and Kordell Stewart into winning QB's. He won with a constantly revolving door of QB's that were a lot worse, in or out of the clutch, than Schaub.

Some coaches can win with mediocre talent.

HJam72
11-29-2009, 03:42 PM
As long as we're talking about "firing" people, I want to see that ref who called the first, long interference penalty living in a cardboard box by mid-December. That was bullcrap....it was obvious Manning jock lust....and it has a serious effect on the opposing team's moral, especially the D. THAT call is when I knew we would lose this game.

We should keep in mind that nobody else has beaten Manning and his referees this year either and the Titans are on a serious roll with that RB of theirs. The last three games have been tough and I'm not ready to just replace Kubiak with anybody, but I am ready to start throwing (McNair's) money at Cowher...

PS-Message to all the refs in the NFL: I think if you give Manning an interference call on every pass play that doesn't result in a TD, he might let all you guys suck his &*(^.

TheIronDuke
11-29-2009, 03:44 PM
Still, let's remember that Cowher turned Tommy Maddox and Kordell Stewart into winning QB's. He won with a constantly revolving door of QB's that were a lot worse, in or out of the clutch, than Schaub.

Some coaches can win with mediocre talent.

Yeah, but he had a smash-mouth defense and badass OL and RB's too. This team is too soft/finesse on both sides of the ball for Cowher to take over and make it into the kind of team he wants right off the bat.

Hervoyel
11-29-2009, 03:46 PM
I don't feel like the lousy decision to suddenly abandon what we had been doing (and what had been coincidentally "working") was Schaub's fault but the pick 6 was all on him. I swear sometimes that guy makes some of the most unbelievably stupid decisions. It drives me nuts.

This loss however was all on Gary. He is not the answer at HC. There's no debating that at this point. The man is in far over his head. Now we just have to wait and see how long our slow-motion owner takes to realize this. 2009 is done people. We're finishing in the basement again once we lose to the Jaguars and the Titans pass us by. This is for 2010 and frankly I hope the Texans don't win another game this year. It's probably the only way Kubiak doesn't get another season to prove the last three years weren't the best he can do.

Hint: This is the best he can do.

eriadoc
11-29-2009, 03:47 PM
Two things I'd do - fire Kubiak and draft Case Keenum. The first is obvious, and the second for two reasons. First, it serves as a reminder to Schaub that this is the Not For Long league. Second, Case can be had late in the draft, and he's clutch. Clutch just can't be taught, and I'm tired of knowing that the players are going to choke.

Big Lou
11-29-2009, 03:49 PM
Shaub pulled a Rosenshaub today..... Or would it be Shaubenfels?

Pantherstang84
11-29-2009, 03:49 PM
I don't feel like the lousy decision to suddenly abandon what we had been doing (and what had been coincidentally "working") was Schaub's fault but the pick 6 was all on him. I swear sometimes that guy makes some of the most unbelievably stupid decisions. It drives me nuts.

This loss however was all on Gary. He is not the answer at HC. There's no debating that at this point. The man is in far over his head. Now we just have to wait and see how long our slow-motion owner takes to realize this. 2009 is done people. We're finishing in the basement again once we lose to the Jaguars and the Titans pass us by. This is for 2010 and frankly I hope the Texans don't win another game this year. It's probably the only way Kubiak doesn't get another season to prove the last three years weren't the best he can do.

Hint: This is the best he can do.

I don't know Herv. That look on McNair's face after the last 2 games tells a thousand tales. He looks genuinely pissed. Even during the first half, he had a scowl on his face that would scare Freddy Krueger.

Dan B.
11-29-2009, 03:50 PM
Yeah, but he had a smash-mouth defense and badass OL and RB's too. This team is too soft/finesse on both sides of the ball for Cowher to take over and make it into the kind of team he wants right off the bat.

I think we've got a pretty solid core of LB's in place, which is really what Cowher needs. We need a NT if we're going to go 3-4, but we need one anyway. I agree we need at least a top guard and pounding RB (assuming Caldwell can play C when our Guards are healthy), but the cupboard is hardly bare here. It's probably better here than in other potential alternatives. Cowher has to bring in new pieces wherever he goes. I'd say he would need fewer here than elsewhere, and thus could start winning sooner.

Hervoyel
11-29-2009, 03:54 PM
Yeah, but he had a smash-mouth defense and badass OL and RB's too. This team is too soft/finesse on both sides of the ball for Cowher to take over and make it into the kind of team he wants right off the bat.

This team is a direct reflection of the man who built it and leads it. Nothing says they stay that way when the HC changes. Gary Kubiak is a great offensive coordinator and he's complete shit as a head coach. Of course his players like him. Hell I like him. Most of us like him. That doesn't mean he can coach a football team. It's time for Bob McNair to bring a proven winning head coach in here. If I were McNair I'd have had Cowher on the phone before the start of the fourth quarter. There are excellent players on this team who have a limited amount of time to play in this league. That time is being wasted by this experiment. Pull the plug Bob. Send Gary packing with your thanks for all his hard work. Accept his explanation and put it all on him. That's where the problem is primarily.

Big Lou
11-29-2009, 03:54 PM
I don't know Herv. That look on McNair's face after the last 2 games tells a thousand tales. He looks genuinely pissed. Even during the first half, he had a scowl on his face that would scare Freddy Krueger.

McNair did look pretty pissed. He looked like he was gonna knock the piss out someone!!!

Although I thought Kubiak would get a 5th year for sure, I would say he has about a 25% chance of bieng the HC next year after several heartbreaking losses, or meltdowns as they are known.

ATXtexanfan
11-29-2009, 03:55 PM
Schaub is the leader of the worst O in terms of 4th qtr pts. Don't put it on him but he is the posterboy.

Pantherstang84
11-29-2009, 03:57 PM
McNair did look pretty pissed. He looked like he was gonna knock the piss out someone!!!

Although I thought Kubiak would get a 5th year for sure, I would say he has about a 25% chance of bieng the HC next year after several heartbreaking losses, or meltdowns as they are known.

I just wonder if he will wait until the end of the season. I mean he looked that mad!

Hervoyel
11-29-2009, 03:58 PM
Shaub pulled a Rosenshaub today..... Or would it be Shaubenfels?

I've decided that his penchant for throwing ill-timed pick-6's is now...


The Schaubterception

As in "We were up by 3 and then Matt threw the Schaubterception and then we were down by 4".

Hervoyel
11-29-2009, 04:00 PM
I just wonder if he will wait until the end of the season. I mean he looked that mad!

I can only pray that he will move that quickly. I'd fire him today or first thing Monday morning and then get Rhodes (if he will and is capable) or Bush to take the interim position. I'd be on the phone with Cowher tonight and I'd take out the big tooled leather, gold-embossed check book for this one.

Silver Oak
11-29-2009, 04:01 PM
over/under on games coached by Cowher before same posters start having pink soap for Cowher?

I'll open the line at 8 games.

just a core element of posters who call themselves "fans", who will never be happy.

Hervoyel
11-29-2009, 04:04 PM
Ahhh, Kubiak's "white knight" arrives right on schedule to chastise those "fans" again for their lack of acceptable fanliness.

It's year four and this team has gone as far as Gary Kubiak can take them. Now you might be interested in a Cincinnati-esq 7 year run of .505 like Marvin Lewis has going up there but the clock is ticking and by the time this head coach figures out how to coach at this level half of our stars will be in decline or on other teams.

Big Lou
11-29-2009, 04:05 PM
over/under on games coached by Cowher before same posters start having pink soap for Cowher?

I'll open the line at 8 games.

just a core element of posters who call themselves "fans", who will never be happy.

I got in the shower after the game and started wondering that very thing. Maybe I'm just a softee like McNair, but I would be half tempted to give Kubes one more draft, and one more year of his system bieng installed. However if he's gone and we get Cowher I would be pretty happy.

Dan B.
11-29-2009, 04:07 PM
Ahhh, Kubiak's "white knight" arrives right on schedule to chastise those "fans" again for their lack of acceptable fanliness.

It's year four and this team has gone as far as Gary Kubiak can take them. Now you might be interested in a Cincinnati-esq 7 year run of .505 like Marvin Lewis has going up there but the clock is ticking and by the time this head coach figures out how to coach at this level half of our stars will be in decline or on other teams.

Well, we're nearly halfway there.

edo783
11-29-2009, 04:11 PM
I can only pray that he will move that quickly. I'd fire him today or first thing Monday morning and then get Rhodes (if he will and is capable) or Bush to take the interim position. I'd be on the phone with Cowher tonight and I'd take out the big tooled leather, gold-embossed check book for this one.

You absolutely do NOT do that. You come out and say "Things haven't went exactly as we have wanted, but Gary has the team moving and doing good things and I'm sure we are in for better things the rest of the season". You keep saying that the rest of the season, but negotiate with Cowher on the QT. Then at the end of the season, you march on with the new guy. To fire an NFL HC mid season is not something that works well when the guy coming in is just a place holder. You will do better with continuity and then make the change. After the lose last week I really didn't think Bob would make a change, but now with 3 consecutive loses to in division rivals that pretty much boil down to just not being a tough closing team and I think he will pull the trigger, but not till the season is done.

TheRealJoker
11-29-2009, 04:16 PM
Schaub shoulders a fair share of the blame this week but there's a major difference between him and Kubiak:

Schaub has made steady progress in his position while Kubiak has not. Schaub can be a top-tier QB as soon as he takes the next step in his development and eliminates the one or two WTF throws he makes each game. Kubiak has not shown he can get this team ready to play for 4 quarters every game and he failed to get them ready for game 1 and coming off the bye week.

Schaub has a future as a Texan, Kubiak does not.

Its more than fair to call Schaub out for his atrocious second half. Him and AJ should never be off key like they were on the potential TD drive where we had to settle for the FG and his first INT. Schaub should've identified the LB in coverage and gone somewhere else with the ball on the pick 6. Schaub should've known where Mathis was at all times before the snap and adjusted accordingly so as not to be stripped.

But Schaub has shown he can fix most of his flaws...once he gets over the hump of his worst flaw which is the one or two WTF decisions per game he'll be a top tier QB.

HJam72
11-29-2009, 04:25 PM
If Schaub would just change his last name to Manning, that long interception would've been a pass interference against the nearest defender to the "near"est receiver.

silvrhand
11-29-2009, 04:30 PM
Schaub shoulders a fair share of the blame this week but there's a major difference between him and Kubiak:

Schaub has made steady progress in his position while Kubiak has not. Schaub can be a top-tier QB as soon as he takes the next step in his development and eliminates the one or two WTF throws he makes each game. Kubiak has not shown he can get this team ready to play for 4 quarters every game and he failed to get them ready for game 1 and coming off the bye week.

Schaub has a future as a Texan, Kubiak does not.

Its more than fair to call Schaub out for his atrocious second half. Him and AJ should never be off key like they were on the potential TD drive where we had to settle for the FG and his first INT. Schaub should've identified the LB in coverage and gone somewhere else with the ball on the pick 6. Schaub should've known where Mathis was at all times before the snap and adjusted accordingly so as not to be stripped.

But Schaub has shown he can fix most of his flaws...once he gets over the hump of his worst flaw which is the one or two WTF decisions per game he'll be a top tier QB.

I'm sure the statmasters will throw out the 300 yard game last week but Schaub is choking week after week on the big games.. He then gets on Sports 610 radio and says that they didn't "blow it" but let one slip away from them.

He didn't even sound upset, sorry put me a winner in at QB please, one that at least knows they blew the biggest game in franchise history on MNF @home in front of the biggest pre game bash I've ever seen..

Wolf
11-29-2009, 04:33 PM
over/under on games coached by Cowher before same posters start having pink soap for Cowher?

I'll open the line at 8 games.

just a core element of posters who call themselves "fans", who will never be happy.

I don't know, we know some won't be happy. watching the game today, I had no confidence in this team at half time. On defense my mindset isn't that we make a big play, it was more that I hoped the Colts would mess up.


while I think it is admirable for Kubiak to say "It's on me". I feel that time is over. I think off the field, the players like that in the coach that will admit mistakes, but on the field I feel the "It's on me" (being said over and over throughout the year) is playing in the back of the players mind when a play is called, hence they play with hesitation and without the confidence needed to make THE PLAY

When kubiak started, I feel the coaching surpassed the talent and now I feel the talent has surpassed the coaching

Ryan
11-29-2009, 04:34 PM
won't putt it ALL on him...but won' call him BLAMELESS either.

This.

Hervoyel
11-29-2009, 04:42 PM
I don't know, we know some won't be happy. watching the game today, I had no confidence in this team at half time. On defense my mindset isn't that we make a big play, it was more that I hoped the Colts would mess up.


while I think it is admirable for Kubiak to say "It's on me". I feel that time is over. I think off the field, the players like that in the coach that will admit mistakes, but on the field I feel the "It's on me" (being said over and over throughout the year) is playing in the back of the players mind when a play is called, hence they play with hesitation and without the confidence needed to make THE PLAY

When kubiak started, I feel the coaching surpassed the talent and now I feel the talent has surpassed the coaching

This. Are we better? Of course we are. Are we still getting better? No, we seem to be regressing in my eyes.

disaacks3
11-29-2009, 05:23 PM
I don't put the loss on Schaub's shoulders but there is certainly a lot of blame that should be directed at him. The dude was absolutely terrible in the second half. He is far from the only one, but let's not pretend like he didn't contribute to the problem with his play in the second half.

Schaub deserves blame but he doesn't deserve "lets replace him now" kind of blame like the coaching staff deserves.

Those two quotes summarize today's game quite well.

The first half of this game illustrates one thing VERY Clearly...

The Houston Texans CAN play and beat any team in the league. The talent gap isn't gone, but it's narrowed to the point that we can shut down anybody and can score on anybody if we've got our "A" game going. The reason this team can't do it for TWO halves of the same game is where the coaching comes in.

Forget the Texans last score - the all-mascot team could've scored against that defense. We were shut down in the second half due to the inability of our coaching staff to keep the chains moving. Do the players have to make the plays? Absolutely! If they have the talent , but AREN'T getting it done, it's on the coaches...that's what McNair pays them for.

Norg
11-29-2009, 05:28 PM
yeah its not his fault



BUT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


he one of the reasons we lost today

just a peice in the puzzle on why we lost

and u know what we do to Peices that suck we trim that fat

WHo knows maybe Matt has a meltdown

I seen Rex on the sideline with his helmet in his hand ????

Esoom
11-29-2009, 06:17 PM
I'm sure the statmasters will throw out the 300 yard game last week but Schaub is choking week after week on the big games.. He then gets on Sports 610 radio and says that they didn't "blow it" but let one slip away from them.

He didn't even sound upset, sorry put me a winner in at QB please, one that at least knows they blew the biggest game in franchise history on MNF @home in front of the biggest pre game bash I've ever seen..

Schaub has been choking?! Schaub?! I forgot it was Schaub that kicks our field goals and plays defense. He's the one that couldn't tackle anybody or cover Kenny Britt on Monday. And he's the one that gave up so many consecutive points today. Great, I've been playing it on the wrong people this whole time.

You've got to be kidding me. The team has been choking. Schaub has been playing out of his mind all season, with the exception of the second half today and the Jets game.

CloakNNNdagger
11-29-2009, 06:39 PM
I call BS. Schaub played like ass in the second half. He made stupid throws, bad throws, and that fumble was 100% on him. You don't hold the ball out there like that and expect anything less. And the fact that we can't get an upgrade to him immediately doesn't mean you hold him blameless.



The coaches deserve their share of the blame, and they'll get it by losing their jobs. What do the players get? A free pass from many of you, and millions of dollars along the way.



On many of his sacks, he has no idea a D man is converging on him. He does not seem to the "awareness" factor, nor does his peripheral vision lend me to believe that he is not wearing horse blinders.

silvrhand
11-29-2009, 10:41 PM
Schaub has been choking?! Schaub?! I forgot it was Schaub that kicks our field goals and plays defense. He's the one that couldn't tackle anybody or cover Kenny Britt on Monday. And he's the one that gave up so many consecutive points today. Great, I've been playing it on the wrong people this whole time.

You've got to be kidding me. The team has been choking. Schaub has been playing out of his mind all season, with the exception of the second half today and the Jets game.

Go back to the titans game and look at all the passes, yah they were completions but everyone of them was near the ankles and the receivers had to wait. He's SLOW on his read progression, but hey he puts up 300 yards right? Missed opportunities are there, you just have to look past the #'s and look at it closely.

edo783
11-29-2009, 10:55 PM
He was in the process of a throw when a guy came from the blind/backside and knocks it out of his hand. That's not an awareness issue, he was getting rid of it and the LT let his man get to him quicker than he should have. Could he have reloaded and stepped up.....MAYBE, but then the play dynamic changes for who he was trying to hit and likely winds up in a sack, because he would wind up holding the ball too long.

Norg
11-29-2009, 11:26 PM
i blame the forced fumble on Matt 100% on the Left tackle

leebigeztx
11-30-2009, 09:14 AM
They should take the out toute out the book for shaub. Evereytime he throws it seems like its almost picked off. I dunno whats going on, but he's having trouble driving the ball on that play. The colts don't need any help scoring and you cant give them a pick 6.

leebigeztx
11-30-2009, 09:16 AM
i blame the forced fumble on Matt 100% on the Left tackle

That was shaub fault. Brown pushed him past the qb and all matt had to do was step up vs having one hand low on the ball. Winston talked about that wednesday o. sirius that they always want to make freeney and mathis take the long way to the qb.

Second Honeymoon
11-30-2009, 09:18 AM
I have been a big homer and a big fan of Schaub since he got here..and he has done a pretty good job, but he needs to learn how to finish and how to make plays late in games.

That Pick6 was inexcusable and his lack of finishing ability has really made me wonder about Schaub for the first time. I can give someone a few chances especially with him being only a 3rd year starter, but after a while if it looks like a pattern of bad things, you have to look at the common denominator.

Schaub has got to get it together and let me say that Andre didn't look happy AT ALL yesterday. I think that whole Uncle Trade Me story may end up coming out after all this offseason. We won't trade him but I think its gonna put the pressure on the organization to get some new leadership at HC and perhaps even GM. Rick has done a pretty good job but he may be a little too close to Kubiak to keep his job if Gary is fired.

I like Matt but he has to become tougher and he has to make more plays when it counts and not turtle like they do when they get a lead.

Goatcheese
11-30-2009, 09:20 AM
That was shaub fault. Brown pushed him past the qb and all matt had to do was step up vs having one hand low on the ball. Winston talked about that wednesday o. sirius that they always want to make freeney and mathis take the long way to the qb.

He wasn't holding the ball low, he was rearing back to throw. On that play brown might as well have just taken a break and left an orange cone for Mathis to run around. If Brown did anything on the play, even just nudged him to slow his passrush by a tenth of a second, the pass is out, no fumble.

leebigeztx
11-30-2009, 09:30 AM
He wasn't holding the ball low, he was rearing back to throw. On that play brown might as well have just taken a break and left an orange cone for Mathis to run around. If Brown did anything on the play, even just nudged him to slow his passrush by a tenth of a second, the pass is out, no fumble.

He pushed him past the qb. Pocket presence shouldtold matt to hold the ball high with 2 hands or step up in the pocket. That was the protection and he didn't do his job ball security. You never see peyton getting stripped like that do you? Its a feel in the pocket and i like shaub, but too many times his pocket presence or feel has betrayed him. Some of the sacks he's taken has been because he's just holding the ball like its 7 on 7.

beerlover
11-30-2009, 09:41 AM
He pushed him past the qb. Pocket presence shouldtold matt to hold the ball high with 2 hands or step up in the pocket. That was the protection and he didn't do his job ball security. You never see peyton getting stripped like that do you? Its a feel in the pocket and i like shaub, but too many times his pocket presence or feel has betrayed him. Some of the sacks he's taken has been because he's just holding the ball like its 7 on 7.

agreed, he's got to learn to stay above that garbage. if he hasn't by now he probably never will :foottap:

TimeKiller
11-30-2009, 09:49 AM
Hot potato.

Texan_Bill
11-30-2009, 09:54 AM
This was a team FAIL.

My key stat: 10 penalties for 129. That's poor.

GP
11-30-2009, 09:55 AM
On many of his sacks, he has no idea a D man is converging on him. He does not seem to the "awareness" factor, nor does his peripheral vision lend me to believe that he is not wearing horse blinders.

This is true.

He doesn't see things from the side, or he thinks he can squeeze out one more 10th-of-a-second to let the routes develop better.

His footwork in the pocket is bad. Last year's Green Bay game was very unlike Matt--He was bouncing around and side-stepping the blitzers, completing clutch passes and just trouncing the Packers.

This year, he seems to have a lack of peripheral vision/awareness. And his feet look slow, even when setting his feet to make a throw. The delivery is slow. The WRs are having to slow down and make adjustments to compensate for all of this, or having to reach behind them or at their ankles to grab his passes.

We can pass the ball between the 20s, but that darn red zone is killing this team. That's why he has great passing stats but not enough wins.

leebigeztx
11-30-2009, 10:01 AM
This is true.

He doesn't see things from the side, or he thinks he can squeeze out one more 10th-of-a-second to let the routes develop better.

His footwork in the pocket is bad. Last year's Green Bay game was very unlike Matt--He was bouncing around and side-stepping the blitzers, completing clutch passes and just trouncing the Packers.

This year, he seems to have a lack of peripheral vision/awareness. And his feet look slow, even when setting his feet to make a throw. The delivery is slow. The WRs are having to slow down and make adjustments to compensate for all of this, or having to reach behind them or at their ankles to grab his passes.

We can pass the ball between the 20s, but that darn red zone is killing this team. That's why he has great passing stats but not enough wins.

I've heard dan marino talk about how tennis really helped him stay on the balls of his feet. When you look at schaub, you see a guy standing flat foot. Go look at the pcs of the strip and you will see a guy flat foot,ball on his side, not ready to unload the ball. Again, i think schaub has done a good job, but his pockets awerness and feel has to get better.

infantrycak
11-30-2009, 10:03 AM
I have been a big homer and a big fan of Schaub since he got here..and he has done a pretty good job, but he needs to learn how to finish and how to make plays late in games.

That Pick6 was inexcusable and his lack of finishing ability has really made me wonder about Schaub for the first time.

The pick was bad, but this really is a team sport. It's like the Texans each contribute one bad play a game to contrive a loss. For example, the play before Leach is wide open and hit in the hands for at least 8 and possibly a 1st down but just drops the ball. Make that catch and the play call is different. Leach threw down his "here is my bad play" card and then Schaub followed it up with his. Dunta threw his down with his totally unnecessary shirt pull for a flag on an overthrown ball.

Goatcheese
11-30-2009, 10:03 AM
He pushed him past the qb. Pocket presence shouldtold matt to hold the ball high with 2 hands or step up in the pocket. That was the protection and he didn't do his job ball security. You never see peyton getting stripped like that do you? Its a feel in the pocket and i like shaub, but too many times his pocket presence or feel has betrayed him. Some of the sacks he's taken has been because he's just holding the ball like its 7 on 7.

He didn't push him anywhere. He ran to a spot, then turned and attacked the ball as Matt reared back to throw it. It was an absolutely horrendous blocking effort. Brown might as well have been a little orange practice cone.

Yes, manning has been stripped when he's reared back to throw the ball. Every QB in the NFL has it happen at some point. There's a reason it's called the blind side.

HoustonFrog
11-30-2009, 10:11 AM
Everyone is to blame. Schaub did some bad stuff. the D did some bad stuff. the coach was horrible. Team game. Team loss. Team blew it

With that said I have always been a Schaub fan. Plays well in the system. However, that is what has been raising my eyebrows lately. He fits this system. When all players are healthy and things are good he hits the open man, works efficiently and is a top QB. However when things beak down and you get defenses getting him out of his comfort zone his game goes south fast. Of course that has been said about many QBs early on. Just an obvious observation that makes me wonder if he is the type of QB that teams start to figure out....ala Delhomme.

silvrhand
11-30-2009, 10:17 AM
The pick was bad, but this really is a team sport. It's like the Texans each contribute one bad play a game to contrive a loss. For example, the play before Leach is wide open and hit in the hands for at least 8 and possibly a 1st down but just drops the ball. Make that catch and the play call is different. Leach threw down his "here is my bad play" card and then Schaub followed it up with his. Dunta threw his down with his totally unnecessary shirt pull for a flag on an overthrown ball.

Is it me or did that pass seem like it was thrown like a bullet to his FB, don't get me wrong Leech probably should have had it but it seem to eat him up. I had a pretty good vantage point on it @the game but didn't have a chance to see it on video yet.

leebigeztx
11-30-2009, 10:19 AM
If you go to the pics, 4th qt dsc1117 and you can see the pocket pretty good. It was i think a 5 step drop and in the protection from what winston said on wednesday was they make freeney and mathis take the long rush. They set so they wont get bull rushed. If you watch the play even on video, you will see mathis is past schaub and he reaches back and strips the ball. Had matt been on his balls with the ball higher and tighter, he couldve stepped up in the pocket and delivered the pass. There is a reason why schaub and sage were always getting stripped of the ball. Both are very limited in pocket presence and they kinda wind up. That fumble was all schaub.

Goatcheese
11-30-2009, 10:34 AM
If you go to the pics, 4th qt dsc1117 and you can see the pocket pretty good. It was i think a 5 step drop and in the protection from what winston said on wednesday was they make freeney and mathis take the long rush. They set so they wont get bull rushed. If you watch the play even on video, you will see mathis is past schaub and he reaches back and strips the ball. Had matt been on his balls with the ball higher and tighter, he couldve stepped up in the pocket and delivered the pass. There is a reason why schaub and sage were always getting stripped of the ball. Both are very limited in pocket presence and they kinda wind up. That fumble was all schaub.

The ball is up under his chin until he pulls his arm back to throw. What more do you want?

Notice how Winston pushed his guy 4 yards behind Schaub? That's what Winston means by pushing them past the QB. If Brown had done his job the way Winston did, the pass is out. Brown didn't do his job. He made a poor play.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i174/SchoonPK/SchaubFumble.jpg

ObsiWan
11-30-2009, 10:55 AM
Schaub deserves blame but he doesn't deserve "lets replace him now" kind of blame like the coaching staff deserves.

The only reason I'll agree with you is because there isn't anyone out there that's an obvious upgrade.

But I'll be straight with you guys, I'm ready to start Rex.
Seriously.
How many pick-sixes does Schaub get away with before you guys see he's not playoff ready???
He's Brad Johnson in Steel Blue. But without a Bucc defense to make up for his errors. And he's almost as mobile too.

Double Barrel
11-30-2009, 11:05 AM
over/under on games coached by Cowher before same posters start having pink soap for Cowher?

I'll open the line at 8 games.

just a core element of posters who call themselves "fans", who will never be happy.

Why the quote around the word fans? Do you have to be a blinder-wearing myopic Koolaide drinker to be a fan now?

Just because someone does not accept a mediocre product for eight seasons does not make them any lesser or greater of a fan than you or anyone else.

This franchise is working toward a decade of suck. It does not make a person less of a fan to recognize that very simple and understandable fact.

Texecutioner
11-30-2009, 11:08 AM
The only reason I'll agree with you is because there isn't anyone out there that's an obvious upgrade.

But I'll be straight with you guys, I'm ready to start Rex.
Seriously.
How many pick-sixes does Schaub get away with before you guys see he's not playoff ready???
He's Brad Johnson in Steel Blue. But without a Bucc defense to make up for his errors. And he's almost as mobile too.

I disagree. A lot of people seem to forget that Schaub brought the Texans down the field in several of these losses where he put our team in position to tie or take the lead at the end of the game. He's improved a lot in the red zone this year as well. Look at those two games where Chris Brown got stuffed and the one where he fumbled the ball. Then you had the two games where the other Kris Brown missed those two kicks where Schaub got us down the field. I think he has improved a lot this season actually and had he ended up winning those games, many people would be singing a different tune.

El Tejano
11-30-2009, 11:13 AM
One thing I would like to see is Schaub go ahead and run on some of those roll outs. Looks like he could pick up more yards than when he just goes to the check down. Its those kind of yards that help our rushing stats, and keeps our offense on the field. If you go back and look at the WCO offense, it is most dangerous when you have a QB that can run the ball.

datchapin
11-30-2009, 11:14 AM
The ball is up under his chin until he pulls his arm back to throw. What more do you want?

Notice how Winston pushed his guy 4 yards behind Schaub? That's what Winston means by pushing them past the QB. If Brown had done his job the way Winston did, the pass is out. Brown didn't do his job. He made a poor play.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i174/SchoonPK/SchaubFumble.jpg

It's about mechanics right there and Schaub looks like he's about to launch a long ball. The wind up should be on the shoulder not the arm the body torque provides more power than pulling the ball back like Schaub's doing. Yeah, Brown could have done a better job. So could Schaub. You're not gonna get perfect protection every time. Matt has to do things to help his team as well.

SICLICK
11-30-2009, 11:25 AM
Schaub is garbage...he needs to go ...along with kubiak and shenanighan

Pantherstang84
11-30-2009, 11:28 AM
Schaub is garbage...he needs to go ...along with kubiak and shenanighan

So are you going to come up with something more original or are you going to post this comment in every thread Schaub's name is mentioned?

Enquiring minds need to know so Ignore lists can get updated.

Yeah Schaub screwed the pooch yesterday. We get it. Heard you the first time.

Norg
11-30-2009, 11:35 AM
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i174/SchoonPK/SchaubFumble.jpg

yeah look at that picture Winston did his job Browns guy should be at the same point he did good from the start but then just go beat at the end at least push his arms down do something

Finishing Matt should know it

Finishing Brown should know it

leebigeztx
11-30-2009, 02:24 PM
The ball is up under his chin until he pulls his arm back to throw. What more do you want?

Notice how Winston pushed his guy 4 yards behind Schaub? That's what Winston means by pushing them past the QB. If Brown had done his job the way Winston did, the pass is out. Brown didn't do his job. He made a poor play.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i174/SchoonPK/SchaubFumble.jpg

Look at the pocket. Matt should be at least a yard up because there is no one even close in his face. Instead, he's flat foot in harms way. It would be different if haynesworth was pushing the middle of the pocket, but he has plenty of room. Its called pocket presence and if you give that kind of pocket to a good qb, he will step up and fire a strike.

Goatcheese
11-30-2009, 02:35 PM
It's about mechanics right there and Schaub looks like he's about to launch a long ball. The wind up should be on the shoulder not the arm the body torque provides more power than pulling the ball back like Schaub's doing. Yeah, Brown could have done a better job. So could Schaub. You're not gonna get perfect protection every time. Matt has to do things to help his team as well.

His mechanics are fine. He needs to not have blindside passrushers swatting at the ball 2 seconds after the snap.

Look at the pocket. Matt should be at least a yard up because there is no one even close in his face. Instead, he's flat foot in harms way. It would be different if haynesworth was pushing the middle of the pocket, but he has plenty of room. Its called pocket presence and if you give that kind of pocket to a good qb, he will step up and fire a strike.

It's 2 seconds after the snap. It's not like he's standing around for 5 seconds waiting for things to develop. He reaches the top of his drop, finds his target and steps forward to throw, then is stripped as he pulls his arm back.

datchapin
11-30-2009, 02:44 PM
His mechanics are fine. He needs to not have blindside passrushers swatting at the ball 2 seconds after the snap.



It's 2 seconds after the snap. It's not like he's standing around for 5 seconds waiting for things to develop. He reaches the top of his drop, finds his target and steps forward to throw, then is stripped as he pulls his arm back.

So are you saying that his mechanics can't use improvements? That that windup where his arm is so far from his body is acceptable? I'm not saying that Schaub is trash or anything, but he could improve his mechanics.

I'm also not here saying that Brown doesn't deserve some fault on this play. He does because he got beat and they should have called a holding.

Bottom line is both of them could have done better.

GuerillaBlack
11-30-2009, 02:56 PM
Schaub is Drew Bledsoe. A QB that will put up monster stats, but is a statue. I really wish that Schaub had some quicker feet...

Goatcheese
11-30-2009, 02:58 PM
So are you saying that his mechanics can't use improvements? That that windup where his arm is so far from his body is acceptable? I'm not saying that Schaub is trash or anything, but he could improve his mechanics.

I'm also not here saying that Brown doesn't deserve some fault on this play. He does because he got beat and they should have called a holding.

Bottom line is both of them could have done better.

His arm is only that far back because it's being hit. At the point of contact he has the ball just bellow shoulder height, and less than a foot from his body.

GuerillaBlack
11-30-2009, 03:00 PM
Two things I'd do - fire Kubiak and draft Case Keenum. The first is obvious, and the second for two reasons. First, it serves as a reminder to Schaub that this is the Not For Long league. Second, Case can be had late in the draft, and he's clutch. Clutch just can't be taught, and I'm tired of knowing that the players are going to choke.

Hell no. If anything, we would draft Tim Tebow. Case isn't even coming out this year. Tim Tebow is like a lighter version of Vince Young.

GP
11-30-2009, 03:02 PM
Schaub is Drew Bledsoe. A QB that will put up monster stats, but is a statue. I really wish that Schaub had some quicker feet...

You and I are on the same page on this issue.

Great passing stats, but becomes a liability in terms of winning the game or coming through at crucial times.

The line between the Schaubs and the Bledsoes vs. the Peyton Mannings and the Tom Bradys of the NFL is, IMO, a thin one. Good passers, but one group is not pushing their profession to the upper limits of their full potential.

Is that a mental thing? Is it physical? I don't know. Maybe a little of both.

I just wonder what happens at the end of this season, and if this team stays together or we see some turnover in a lot of areas.

silvrhand
11-30-2009, 03:06 PM
You and I are on the same page on this issue.

Great passing stats, but becomes a liability in terms of winning the game or coming through at crucial times.

The line between the Schaubs and the Bledsoes vs. the Peyton Mannings and the Tom Bradys of the NFL is, IMO, a thin one. Good passers, but one group is not pushing their profession to the upper limits of their full potential.

Is that a mental thing? Is it physical? I don't know. Maybe a little of both.

I just wonder what happens at the end of this season, and if this team stays together or we see some turnover in a lot of areas.

aka the intangibles, the swagger, the put your team on your back and carry them.

datchapin
11-30-2009, 03:09 PM
His arm is only that far back because it's being hit. At the point of contact he has the ball just bellow shoulder height, and less than a foot from his body.

Dang dude, you're stubborn. Fine Schaub is perfect. It's everything around him thas screwed up. You can't even agree that he could improve fine. I'm done.

silvrhand
11-30-2009, 03:30 PM
His arm is only that far back because it's being hit. At the point of contact he has the ball just bellow shoulder height, and less than a foot from his body.

Goatcheese, man we all have an opinion but man I am going to have to agree to disagree, you are backing two players that's making a lot of money and not performing.

Hervoyel
11-30-2009, 03:43 PM
You just don't know what a zone defense looks like man. Don't get upset.

Goatcheese
11-30-2009, 04:52 PM
Dang dude, you're stubborn. Fine Schaub is perfect. It's everything around him thas screwed up. You can't even agree that he could improve fine. I'm done.

I'm not saying that he's flawless, or can't improve, but he did nothing wrong on this play, yet people are saying he did, complaining about his throwing motion, bitching about stepping up in the pocket, etc, etc.

***** about players when they screw up, not just for the sake of bitching.

Goatcheese, man we all have an opinion but man I am going to have to agree to disagree, you are backing two players that's making a lot of money and not performing.

Schaub is not performing?

Yeah, we'll have to agree to disagree.

leebigeztx
11-30-2009, 04:55 PM
His arm is only that far back because it's being hit. At the point of contact he has the ball just bellow shoulder height, and less than a foot from his body.

We're not going to agree and i'm not blaming matt for the loss, but the guy makes some of the worse to's at the worse times. The pick 6 in both this game and the cardinals game. That pocket was clean and he's standing flat foot which means he's set. He shouldve stepped up or slid with the outside rush because the guy was by his original drop. Now you can grab a stopwatch and time it and it wasn't 2 seconds. If it was 2 seconds, he would still be moving backwards. I think schaub is a good qb, but he just seems to make mistakes at bad times.

Esoom
11-30-2009, 05:00 PM
Goatcheese, man we all have an opinion but man I am going to have to agree to disagree, you are backing two players that's making a lot of money and not performing.

Explain to me how Schaub is not performing. The man is putting up ridiculous stats, and has put us in position to win nearly every game. Unfortunately the majority of them were screwed up by two players with the last name Brown.

Texan_Bill
11-30-2009, 05:05 PM
As has been the theme of posts today. Schaub is to blame. His pick 6 was costly. That said, he's no more to blame than anyone else.

It was a Team FAIL

eriadoc
11-30-2009, 05:09 PM
Explain to me how Schaub is not performing. The man is putting up ridiculous stats, and has put us in position to win nearly every game. Unfortunately the majority of them were screwed up by two players with the last name Brown.

For starters, Schaub has thrown the game-winning TD in at least two games this season. He threw the game-winner for the Cardinals and this week he threw the game-winner to Clint Sessions.

Neither won the game for the Texans.

76Texan
11-30-2009, 05:12 PM
As has been the theme of posts today. Schaub is to blame. His pick 6 was costly. That said, he's no more to blame than anyone else.

It was a Team FAIL

It was a team fail! The loss, yes!

But this particular play, the fumble was all on Schaub.

Goatcheese
11-30-2009, 05:12 PM
We're not going to agree and i'm not blaming matt for the loss, but the guy makes some of the worse to's at the worse times. The pick 6 in both this game and the cardinals game. That pocket was clean and he's standing flat foot which means he's set. He shouldve stepped up or slid with the outside rush because the guy was by his original drop. Now you can grab a stopwatch and time it and it wasn't 2 seconds. If it was 2 seconds, he would still be moving backwards. I think schaub is a good qb, but he just seems to make mistakes at bad times.

I already said his 2 picks were 100% his fault. I didn't give him a pass at all for those mistakes.

This play he did nothing wrong.

And yes, it was 2 seconds from snap to fumble.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i174/SchoonPK/twoseconds.jpg

Texan_Bill
11-30-2009, 05:13 PM
It was a team fail! The loss, yes!

But this particular play, the fumble was all on Schaub.

Are you intentionally trying to ignore my posts??

And no the fumble was not ALL on Schaub. See D Brown.

76Texan
11-30-2009, 05:14 PM
I already said his 2 picks were 100% his fault. I didn't give him a pass at all for those mistakes.

This play he did nothing wrong.

And yes, it was 2 seconds from snap to fumble.


Mathis was between 9 to 10 yards beyond the LOS.
It was a shotgun snap. 2 secs is a lot of time.

If not for the long wind-up by Schaub and his not-greatest-of footwork, Mathis would never had a chance on the ball.

Texan_Bill
11-30-2009, 05:15 PM
I already said his 2 picks were 100% his fault. I didn't give him a pass at all for those mistakes.

This play he did nothing wrong.

And yes, it was 2 seconds from snap to fumble.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i174/SchoonPK/twoseconds.jpg

76 sometimes types faster than he comprehends. ;)

eriadoc
11-30-2009, 05:18 PM
You want these pics to mean anything? Give me a frame-by-frame of Schaub's wind-up next to Byron Leftwich's wind-up. That would be enlightening.

76Texan
11-30-2009, 05:19 PM
Are you intentionally trying to ignore my posts??

And no the fumble was not ALL on Schaub. See D Brown.
If you watch the Steelers/Ravens game, you can see one fumble by Flacco but his arm was higher.

If Schaub had done the same thing, I would agree that the tackle was also at fault. But he (Schaub) didn't.

There was another time when the DE got close to Flacco, but as his arm was higher, the DE wasn't able to get at the ball.

HJam72
11-30-2009, 05:19 PM
Honestly, everytime anyone commits a turnover, it's going to seem like the worst possible time. That's the way it is when your overall talent level (including coaches, depth, everything) is good, but not great.

76Texan
11-30-2009, 05:21 PM
76 sometimes types faster than he comprehends. ;)

Look at the pix again.
Mathis was between 9-10 yards beyond the LOS.
(And this particular pix doesn't even show Mathis at his deepest point beyond the LOS.)

leebigeztx
11-30-2009, 05:31 PM
Look at the pix again.
Mathis was between 9-10 yards beyond the LOS.
(And this particular pix doesn't even show Mathis at his deepest point beyond the LOS.)

Thats what i'm trying to say to goatcheese. The los is the 46 and schaub is set at the 38. Thats 8 yards with a wide,looping rush. In situations like that, you're in the shotgun to see the field and get more time, not set up in the line of fire. He had a clear lane to step up in the pocket. Goatcheese, have you seen pressure come quick on the really good qb's and they have 2 hands on the ball,move their shoulders to get out the way, reset, and fire. I know i have and i saw it alot with manning sunday. Thats what qb's do, they slide, they don't have to run.

Texan_Bill
11-30-2009, 05:31 PM
If you watch the Steelers/Ravens game, you can see one fumble by Flacco but his arm was higher.

If Schaub had done the same thing, I would agree that the tackle was also at fault. But he (Schaub) didn't.

There was another time when the DE got close to Flacco, but as his arm was higher, the DE wasn't able to get at the ball.

I am NOT going to get into it with you. Whether Schaub's delivery is long or not, it does not dismiss Duane Brown from being blown up. Play left tackle for a down and you will see that Brown is as eually at fault on that particular play. You can NOT allow a defenseman get to an equal level or slightly beyond the QB level and then come inside. Pass protection 101. That said, the QB coach should show this play to Schaub on film.

Winston ran his man ~ 5 yards beyond Schaub. Brown about a yard before his guy came inside. That = FAIL.

Schaub and Flacco are different players. There are probably not 2 quarterbacks in the league that have the same throwing motion, so please spare me the comparisons.

SO back to my original premise. Equal fault all the way around for players and coaches. Not only for that particular play, but yesterday and the last three weeks.

PS. Let's quit acting like this was the sole play that lost the game. How about the defense act like they've hit someone before and not celebrate Dunta's hit and get back to the line of scrimmage for the next play?

maddogmrb
11-30-2009, 05:32 PM
I call BS. Schaub played like ass in the second half. He made stupid throws, bad throws, and that fumble was 100% on him. You don't hold the ball out there like that and expect anything less. And the fact that we can't get an upgrade to him immediately doesn't mean you hold him blameless.

The coaches deserve their share of the blame, and they'll get it by losing their jobs. What do the players get? A free pass from many of you, and millions of dollars along the way.

Agreed. If Sage had Matt's 2nd half y'all would've burned him at the stake before he got off the field. Why Matt gets such a pass is beyond me. It's not like he's ever been a winner anywhere????

Goatcheese
11-30-2009, 05:46 PM
Thats what i'm trying to say to goatcheese. The los is the 46 and schaub is set at the 38. Thats 8 yards with a wide,looping rush. In situations like that, you're in the shotgun to see the field and get more time, not set up in the line of fire. He had a clear lane to step up in the pocket. Goatcheese, have you seen pressure come quick on the really good qb's and they have 2 hands on the ball,move their shoulders to get out the way, reset, and fire. I know i have and i saw it alot with manning sunday. Thats what qb's do, they slide, they don't have to run.

He reaches the top of his drop, slides forward a step, then throws.

Where in there does he need, or even have time to step up?

It's not like he's surveying the field waiting for routes to develop for 5 seconds, and needs to slide up in the pocket to buy time.

If Brown does even a halfass job there is no fumble. But he didn't even manage to do a halfassed job. Mathis might as well have been unblocked.

Why are people going out of their way to forgive Brown for getting destroyed in 2 seconds?

Texan_Bill
11-30-2009, 05:49 PM
Why are people going out of their way to forgive Brown for getting destroyed in 2 seconds?

I'm not, read my posts..

By excusing Brown, people would rather Schaub change his mechanics?? What?? In what universe does that make sense??

76Texan
11-30-2009, 05:51 PM
Thats what i'm trying to say to goatcheese. The los is the 46 and schaub is set at the 38. Thats 8 yards with a wide,looping rush. In situations like that, you're in the shotgun to see the field and get more time, not set up in the line of fire. He had a clear lane to step up in the pocket. Goatcheese, have you seen pressure come quick on the really good qb's and they have 2 hands on the ball,move their shoulders to get out the way, reset, and fire. I know i have and i saw it alot with manning sunday. Thats what qb's do, they slide, they don't have to run.

I got it when I read your many posts!

T.B. - I'm not acting like this play represented the whole game. I've already stated as such. I don't even feel like harping on Schaub anymore. LOL, that was in part why I've not been posting the last two weeks.

I just want to speak my mind once on this particular play and that's it.
As Leebigeztx said, I think the situation could have been avoided by the QB.

It's OK that we see things differently.
I'm going into hiding now! http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon9.gif

Texan_Bill
11-30-2009, 05:54 PM
T.B. - I'm not acting like this play represented the whole game. I've already stated as such. I don't even feel like harping on Schaub anymore. LOL, that was in part why I've not been posting the last two weeks.


It comes across as though you would rather change Schaub's mechanics over fixing the real problem on that play - Brown being beat.

No worries though.

TheRealJoker
11-30-2009, 06:33 PM
I think we can all agree on this:

1) If Brown doesn't get destroyed at the snap by Mathis, Schaub may not have been stripped.

2) If Schaub had stepped up into the pocket, he may not have been stripped.

Personally, I think # 1 was the main problem on the play but that doesn't mean Schaub shouldn't correct his own mistakes when things go bad.

Buffi2
11-30-2009, 06:59 PM
Speaking of Schaub - Bob Allen just said that Schaub criticized the fans who left the game early this AM on his radio show. Did anyone happen to hear exactly what he said?

Esoom
11-30-2009, 07:02 PM
For starters, Schaub has thrown the game-winning TD in at least two games this season. He threw the game-winner for the Cardinals and this week he threw the game-winner to Clint Sessions.

Neither won the game for the Texans.

And yet, despite his mistake against the Cardinals he had us right back on the 1 with a chance to tie. I'm sure no other elite QB has ever thrown an interception at an inopportune time. Clearly he shouldn't throw those interceptions. Everyone knows that. It's not like he's Jake Delhomme though.

HJam72
11-30-2009, 07:11 PM
I think we can all agree on this:

1) If Brown doesn't get destroyed at the snap by Mathis, Schaub may not have been stripped.

2) If Schaub had stepped up into the pocket, he may not have been stripped.

Personally, I think # 1 was the main problem on the play but that doesn't mean Schaub shouldn't correct his own mistakes when things go bad.

I don't agree with any of that. He still coulda been stripped by another player, or just dropped the ball. Besides, he could've thrown a pick 6.

Sorry, I'm just feeling argumentative. :)

Sal Rosenberg
11-30-2009, 07:14 PM
I was told that after Andre dropped a pass in the endzone that Schuab threw it away the play after when he could have easily walked for a first down.He was all smiles and content with being up on the Colts.How do we get this guy to get fired up or quit being a nice guy for 4 quarters????:fans:

silvrhand
11-30-2009, 08:43 PM
And yet, despite his mistake against the Cardinals he had us right back on the 1 with a chance to tie. I'm sure no other elite QB has ever thrown an interception at an inopportune time. Clearly he shouldn't throw those interceptions. Everyone knows that. It's not like he's Jake Delhomme though.

Winners don't put your team in position to win, they win the game for you, winners don't want to set you up for a field goal they want to ram the ball down your throat in the endzone dancing on your nuts all the way.

Winners want to stuff it down your )(@*$(@* throat.

Show me a winner besides Andre Johnson on our offensive side of the ball?

Esoom
11-30-2009, 08:58 PM
Winners don't put your team in position to win, they win the game for you, winners don't want to set you up for a field goal they want to ram the ball down your throat in the endzone dancing on your nuts all the way.

Winners want to stuff it down your )(@*$(@* throat.

Show me a winner besides Andre Johnson on our offensive side of the ball?

Oh right, I forgot that Brady never needed Vinatieri to win games.

infantrycak
11-30-2009, 09:09 PM
Winners don't put your team in position to win, they win the game for you, winners don't want to set you up for a field goal they want to ram the ball down your throat in the endzone dancing on your nuts all the way.

Winners want to stuff it down your )(@*$(@* throat.

Show me a winner besides Andre Johnson on our offensive side of the ball?

Oh look, it is platitudes day.

Oh right, I forgot that Brady never needed Vinatieri to win games.

Exactly.

silvrhand
11-30-2009, 09:26 PM
Oh right, I forgot that Brady never needed Vinatieri to win games.

We don't have one of those we have Kris Brown.

Go back at the last two games and look at all the missed opportunities that Matt has lost. Then tell me what you think. There were so many missed throws or off throws that the receivers caught below the knees or had to stop and wait for the ball. The biggest games we have had in the history of this franchise, and they blew it, but according to Matt we "let it slip away". Apparently he didn't realize that the hype before the game was real for the fans and we are still a footnote on broadcast, heck the ESPN notes on our game.

Peyton does it again against the texans..

silvrhand
11-30-2009, 09:27 PM
Oh look, it is platitudes day.

Exactly.

Of course it's been said before, because it's true.

Esoom
11-30-2009, 10:01 PM
We don't have one of those we have Kris Brown.

Go back at the last two games and look at all the missed opportunities that Matt has lost. Then tell me what you think. There were so many missed throws or off throws that the receivers caught below the knees or had to stop and wait for the ball. The biggest games we have had in the history of this franchise, and they blew it, but according to Matt we "let it slip away". Apparently he didn't realize that the hype before the game was real for the fans and we are still a footnote on broadcast, heck the ESPN notes on our game.

Peyton does it again against the texans..

How is it Matt Schaub's fault that Kris Brown sucks? Sure he made some bad throws, just like every other QB in the league. And yet at the end of every game except this one and the Jets game we've gone on a final drive that puts us in a position to win or tie. If you want to talk about people that have blown our biggest games, go have a chat with the Defense. They're the ones that can't stop Chris Johnson or Vince Young or anybody on the Colts, and probably won't stop MJD on Sunday. Or talk to the Offensive Line that can't push a line of 6 year olds far enough to open a hole for our running game. Or talk to Kris Brown/Chris Brown who can't do the one thing they're paid to do to win/send the game to over time.

Point being, there are a hell of a lot of people on this team that you can blame for our mediocrity, but Matt Schaub is not one of them.

TexansBlood
11-30-2009, 11:09 PM
Shaub thinks it's the fans fault!!!

silvrhand
11-30-2009, 11:12 PM
How is it Matt Schaub's fault that Kris Brown sucks?

If Matt actually hits the receiver in stride.. then he actually keeps going into the endzone and then we don't have to bring KB on the field for anything other than a field goal.

Again another stat that isn't looked at publically, missed opportunities..

76Texan
12-01-2009, 10:47 AM
It comes across as though you would rather change Schaub's mechanics over fixing the real problem on that play - Brown being beat.

No worries though.Yeah I do want him to change his mechanics.
If Phil Simms admitted to it and changed it for the better late in his career, so can Schaub. Not only that, he needs to learn to improve his pocket awareness as well.

I'm not going to join in the Fire Matt Schaub or MS calling out people threads, but I just want to let you know that I found like 8 plays in the first half alone where the Texans could have forced a fumble on Manning if he was MS.

Here they are for your displeasures:

Barwin sack.
Manning stepped up the pocket but knew he couldn't get away so he took the sack.


1-10-IND 17 (2:01) (Shotgun) P.Manning pass short middle to P.Garcon to IND 31 for 14 yards (B.Pollard).
At 1.5 secs, Okoye was already past the LT to the inside and was right in Manning's face.
But he simply side-stepped to the outside.

1-20-IND 43 (15:00) (Shotgun) P.Manning pass short right intended for R.Wayne INTERCEPTED by B.Cushing at IND 45.
The LT got beat quicker than Brown, even with help from the RB.
Antonio Smith fell down, but got back up.
It was 2.7 secs when Smith finally got to Manning's arm.
Manning got intercepted trying to make a play, but this one was on him, just like the fumble was on Schaub.
(- This play is only to show that I put the accountability on the QB even though the O-lineman got beat worse than Brown.)

2-5-HST 10 (6:38) (Shotgun) P.Manning pass short right to P.Garcon to HST 9 for 1 yard.
At 1.7 secs, Cushing was in Manning's face;
Also, Barwin came in on the same side as Mathis (he would have been there sooner than Mathis did.)
Ball was gone.


3-4-HST 9 (6:38) (Shotgun) P.Manning pass short middle to P.Garcon for 9 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
At 2 secs, Mario had done beating the RT soundly and was ready for a free shot on Manning,
but again the ball was gone.


1-10-IND 19 (:51) (Shotgun) P.Manning pass short left to A.Collie to IND 30 for 11 yards (Du.Robinson).
At 1.15 secs, Mario was less than 9 yds beyond the LOS, with arm extending out just like Mathis and on the same side.
Manning (who was also in the shotgun) had stepped up a couple.
He was only 5-6 yds from the LOS, stepping into his throw.
Mario was in a better position than Mathis and he was there a whole lot sooner.


1-10-IND 30 (:29) (Shotgun) P.Manning pass short middle to D.Brown to IND 37 for 7 yards (B.Cushing).
At 2.1 secs, Mario was only between 7-8 yds beyond the LOS finding Nemo;
but Manning already stepped a couple of yards further up in the pocket.
Also, Manning was a couple yards closer to the LOS than Schaub was.
Granted, he did have one more yard leeway over Schaub with the interior linemen,
but both had enough rooms to step up.


1-10-IND 45 (:17) (Shotgun) P.Manning pass deep middle intended for R.Wayne INTERCEPTED by B.McCain at HST 35.
B.McCain to HST 35 for no gain (R.Wayne).
Manning avoided the "fumble" here but gave up the INT.
But with some 12 secs left and the team out of FG range like in this situation,
I wouldn't mind if Schaub tried to make that play.
As long as it's an INT downfield to the opponent's 35-yd line, not an easy pick-six.

At 1 sec, Mario was already in better position than Mathis.
At 1.5 sec, Mario had fully completed the looping around (much much better than Mathis)
and had both arms around Manning, who slithered away.
If Manning had stayed there (around 5 yds from the LOS) and extended his arm like Schaub,
that ball would been swiped away cleanly.
Mario could have had that ball as easily as you can get two hands on a rebound of a basketball.

76Texan
12-01-2009, 03:29 PM
I'm pulling this quote from the other thread since I didn't want to mess that one up.

You don't think his first pick, thrown 15 yards away from the nearest Texan, was his fault?

The pick 6 was a bad read, but that one was pure "WTF".
That one, I think, is unfortunate.

Schaub and AJ just weren't on the same page.

It looks to me like AJ was supposed to run a post route, but he saw the coverage and changed it to an out route.

I'm pretty sure AJ wouldn't have changed his route unless he and Schaub (and the coaches) had agreed that when the D wanted to take away certain route, then the QB and the WR can go to the next thing.

The Colts brought Bullitt up and sliced Bethea over to bait Schaub.
We had Pollard spying on Manning for an INT the previous game, so this was pay-back time.
The Colts was much more obvious with Bullitt than we were with Wilson though.

Schaub should have seen it; Manning would be more likely to catch this one.
But personally, I don't expect Schaub to be an elite QB to recognize it.
For the QB that Schaub is (IMO - a pretty good one, but not a great one), I don't blame neither him nor AJ for this INT.

Esoom
12-01-2009, 08:11 PM
If Matt actually hits the receiver in stride.. then he actually keeps going into the endzone and then we don't have to bring KB on the field for anything other than a field goal.

Again another stat that isn't looked at publically, missed opportunities..

You're being a little unreasonable and idealistic here. It would be great if our QB could drive us down the field for a TD every time, but that is never going to happen. Not if you have Drew Brees. Not if you have Tom Brady. Not if you have Peyton Manning. You have to have other players do their job to win. Fact of the matter is that Schaub put us in position to win, even though he wasn't able to seal the deal himself. He set someone else up to do it.

silvrhand
12-01-2009, 08:43 PM
You're being a little unreasonable and idealistic here. It would be great if our QB could drive us down the field for a TD every time, but that is never going to happen. Not if you have Drew Brees. Not if you have Tom Brady. Not if you have Peyton Manning. You have to have other players do their job to win. Fact of the matter is that Schaub put us in position to win, even though he wasn't able to seal the deal himself. He set someone else up to do it.

- Ben Rothlisberger
- Vince Young (god that hurts to type)
- Peyton Manning
- Tom Brady
- Drew Brees
- Aaron Rodgers
- Brett Farve
- Phillip Rivers
- Donovan Mcnabb

That's about 30% of the NFL teams that all have QB's that can put their team on their shoulders and carry them when they need to pull out the big win. I don't think I'm being idealistic, Matt just reminds me of Tony Promo in some aspects.

It's not a secret I don't like Schaub, and I'm being a bit hard on him but QB to me is the #1 position on the team, that gives it swagger, confidence, and leadership. I just don't see Matt Schaub as that kind of guy, and it's hard to be successful in the NFL without it. Do teams do it, yah they do but not often.

Vinny
12-01-2009, 08:59 PM
How is it Matt Schaub's fault that Kris Brown sucks? Sure he made some bad throws, just like every other QB in the league. And yet at the end of every game except this one and the Jets game we've gone on a final drive that puts us in a position to win or tie. If you want to talk about people that have blown our biggest games, go have a chat with the Defense. They're the ones that can't stop Chris Johnson or Vince Young or anybody on the Colts, and probably won't stop MJD on Sunday. Or talk to the Offensive Line that can't push a line of 6 year olds far enough to open a hole for our running game. Or talk to Kris Brown/Chris Brown who can't do the one thing they're paid to do to win/send the game to over time.

Point being, there are a hell of a lot of people on this team that you can blame for our mediocrity, but Matt Schaub is not one of them.
50 yard kicks aren't gimmies. Schaub deserves some blame too, but it's not like the years when all we could do is score one TD a game in garbage time and throw dozens of passes for no gain or a 4 yard gain.

silvrhand
12-01-2009, 10:47 PM
50 yard kicks aren't gimmies. Schaub deserves some blame too, but it's not like the years when all we could do is score one TD a game in garbage time and throw dozens of passes for no gain or a 4 yard gain.

Although it's starting to look like it with the 1-3 yard out patterns.. whoever is calling that play needs to rip it out of their playbook..

texanhead08
12-01-2009, 10:54 PM
I'm pulling this quote from the other thread since I didn't want to mess that one up.


That one, I think, is unfortunate.

Schaub and AJ just weren't on the same page.

It looks to me like AJ was supposed to run a post route, but he saw the coverage and changed it to an out route.

I'm pretty sure AJ wouldn't have changed his route unless he and Schaub (and the coaches) had agreed that when the D wanted to take away certain route, then the QB and the WR can go to the next thing.

The Colts brought Bullitt up and sliced Bethea over to bait Schaub.
We had Pollard spying on Manning for an INT the previous game, so this was pay-back time.
The Colts was much more obvious with Bullitt than we were with Wilson though.

Schaub should have seen it; Manning would be more likely to catch this one.
But personally, I don't expect Schaub to be an elite QB to recognize it.
For the QB that Schaub is (IMO - a pretty good one, but not a great one), I don't blame neither him nor AJ for this INT.



I thought it should have been a post when it happened as well thats the only explanation to where he put that ball. I can't see a NFL QB whether you think he is good or bad missing a wr that bad.

Esoom
12-02-2009, 01:47 AM
50 yard kicks aren't gimmies. Schaub deserves some blame too, but it's not like the years when all we could do is score one TD a game in garbage time and throw dozens of passes for no gain or a 4 yard gain.

Oh believe me, I'm far from saying that Schaub is perfect and doesn't deserve any blame at all, but people are calling for REX GROSSMAN for God's sake.

50 yard kicks are make-able by most kickers in the league most of the time however. And in 2 of the games we were on the 1 YARD LINE.



- Ben Rothlisberger
- Vince Young (god that hurts to type)
- Peyton Manning
- Tom Brady
- Drew Brees
- Aaron Rodgers
- Brett Farve
- Phillip Rivers
- Donovan Mcnabb

That's about 30% of the NFL teams that all have QB's that can put their team on their shoulders and carry them when they need to pull out the big win. I don't think I'm being idealistic, Matt just reminds me of Tony Promo in some aspects.

It's not a secret I don't like Schaub, and I'm being a bit hard on him but QB to me is the #1 position on the team, that gives it swagger, confidence, and leadership. I just don't see Matt Schaub as that kind of guy, and it's hard to be successful in the NFL without it. Do teams do it, yah they do but not often.


Once again, you have unreasonable and impossible expectations from the Quarterback position. Like it or not, Football is a team game. Every player has to execute effectively in order to win. For the majority of the season, barring a few borderline retarded plays, Schaub has done above and beyond what is required of him. If those QB's can carry a team so well, why don't they just save cap room and roster space and fire their kickers and goal line backs? Oh, right, because those players actually contribute on good teams.

Tell me again, who was it that won quite a few playoff games and Super Bowls with the Patriots a few years ago? Tom Brady? Nope. He just put his kicker (Adam Vinatieri) in position to hit a game winning field goal. That's all that you can reasonably ask of your Quarterback. To put his team in position to win the game.

GNTLEWOLF
12-02-2009, 01:58 AM
Oh believe me, I'm far from saying that Schaub is perfect and doesn't deserve any blame at all, but people are calling for REX GROSSMAN for God's sake.

50 yard kicks are make-able by most kickers in the league most of the time however. And in 2 of the games we were on the 1 YARD LINE.




Once again, you have unreasonable and impossible expectations from the Quarterback position. Like it or not, Football is a team game. Every player has to execute effectively in order to win. For the majority of the season, barring a few borderline retarded plays, Schaub has done above and beyond what is required of him. If those QB's can carry a team so well, why don't they just save cap room and roster space and fire their kickers and goal line backs? Oh, right, because those players actually contribute on good teams.

Tell me again, who was it that won quite a few playoff games and Super Bowls with the Patriots a few years ago? Tom Brady? Nope. He just put his kicker (Adam Vinatieri) in position to hit a game winning field goal. That's all that you can reasonably ask of your Quarterback. To put his team in position to win the game.

Huh???!!!! :mcnugget:I want to see the stats on that. I have been watching pro football for a lot of years and I haven't seen that many 50+ yarders.

Esoom
12-02-2009, 04:42 AM
Huh???!!!! :mcnugget:I want to see the stats on that. I have been watching pro football for a lot of years and I haven't seen that many 50+ yarders.

The league average on kicks of 50+ yards this year is 37/63 or ~58%.

Out of the top 10 kickers in the league in terms of total points scored, 7 of them make at least half of their attempts over 50 yards, with 2 kickers having 0 attempts.

Out of the top 20 kickers in the league in terms of total points scored, 15 kickers make at least half of their attempts over 50 yards, with 3 having 0 attempts.

Just for reference, Kris Brown is currently 17th on that list and is 2/2 on 50+ yard field goal attempts.

The results for 40-49 yards are even better. 116/167 for a 69% success rate.

Got my information from NFL (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/sortableStats?div=NFL&stable=kicking&stat=kick50&dir=descending)

GNTLEWOLF
12-02-2009, 04:49 AM
The league average on kicks of 50+ yards this year is 37/63 or ~58%.

Got my information from NFL (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/sortableStats?div=NFL&stable=kicking&stat=kick50&dir=descending)

So 63 kicks at 50+ yards have been attempted and 37 have been made. That is a lot more than I thought. Do you have a link to sight where I can get that information? I would be interested to see the break down of who attempted and who made the kicks. Nevermind..I see the link...Thanks