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View Full Version : This is why we HAVE to win on Sunday vs. the Colts..


Imatexanfan
11-28-2009, 05:35 PM
No team in football this season has endured the heartbreak that the Houston Texans have. Teams have had tough losses, but none rival the amount the 5-5 Texans have had. During Monday night's 20-17 loss against Tennessee, Houston kicker Kris Brown missed two 49-yard field goals, including one on the last play of the game. In Week 9 at Indianapolis, Brown missed a 42-yard field goal that would have tied the game and sent it to overtime. Then the Texans had a bye to stew about that tough loss before returning for the Monday night heartbreak.:gun:

Earlier this season, Texans running back Chris Brown fumbled just before he would have scored what would have been a game-winning touchdown against Jacksonville. And Brown also failed to get 1 yard on a fourth-and-goal play from the 1-yard line against Arizona, a play that could have sent the game to overtime. The Texans just as easily could be 9-1 as they are 5-5, but they have failed to convert in the red zone or in the clutch. Now they get a chance to redeem themselves Sunday versus the unbeaten Colts. It will not be easy. But none of the Texans' losses this season has been. :foottap:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=schefter_adam&id=4689690

Corrosion
11-28-2009, 05:44 PM
The Texans just as easily could be 9-1 as they are 5-5

yep - a couple plays away in each of those games.

brakos82
11-28-2009, 05:46 PM
Dangerously close to 3-7 don't forget, but yeah...

sometexansfan
11-28-2009, 05:46 PM
Brown's TD against Jacksonville would've tied it, not won it. Still need to win though.

Imatexanfan
11-28-2009, 05:53 PM
Dangerously close to 3-7 don't forget, but yeah...

Exactly but looking at the BIGGER picture here, but yea could've been easily in a bracket w/ the Browns and the Bucs this season...nah:texflag:

TheRealJoker
11-28-2009, 06:09 PM
Its now or never time for Kubiak. He loses here, playoffs are pretty much out of the question which means he should be fired imo for not getting to the playoffs after 4 years as our HC. This season's theme has been missed opportunities with the Texans having the same problems they've had since the franchise's inception which is coming up with the plays at the end of games to get the win.

dalemurphy
11-28-2009, 06:55 PM
Its now or never time for Kubiak. He loses here, playoffs are pretty much out of the question which means he should be fired imo for not getting to the playoffs after 4 years as our HC. This season's theme has been missed opportunities with the Texans having the same problems they've had since the franchise's inception which is coming up with the plays at the end of games to get the win.

Let's get beyond the standard lines like, "coaches are measured by wins and losses" or "you are what your record is", etc... All of those statements have an element of truth in them when applied to the proper context. I am very frustrated right now that this team is no better than 5-5. But, I am very excited that this team has the ability to finish 11-5. Rick Smith, together with Kubiak and his staff, have developed a highly competitive and talented team. The ability displayed on the field goes beyond the player assessment and to player development. I don't think a reasonable owner can blow up a coaching staff/organization that has put together this talented and young of a team, developed them, and has the team playing hard for them.... particularly a year in front of a possible work stoppage. I don't expect nor would I agree with a regime change unless the team quits in December. While I share everyone's frustration to this point and disappointment if this team doesn't reach 10 wins, I just don't see that it is time to panic, despite of the weaknesses illustrated by Kubiak and staff to this point.

DexmanC
11-28-2009, 07:03 PM
If the Texans don't win Sunday, they can forget about the playoffs.
They are currently 1-3 in the division, and if they lose to Indy OR Jacksonville,
then they lose ALL possible tiebreakers to them. It would be even worse,
should the Titans beat Indy and Jacksonville and finish 3-3 in the division.

Either way, the Texans MUST win Sunday, and if they do, Jacksonville
will be ANOTHER "must win." So, in summary...

If the Texans lose to the Colts OR Jags, it's goodbye 2009 playoffs.

thunderkyss
11-28-2009, 07:20 PM
[B]During Monday night's 20-17 loss against Tennessee, Houston kicker Kris Brown missed two 49-yard field goals, including one on the last play of the game.

What? he missed 2 field goals in that same game?

But I thought it wasn't his fault that we lost the game.

I mean all things being equal.... if he had made the first filed goal... the score would have been 20 to 20.

& if he made that last field goal.. the score would have been.. this is too hard for me.

But I am certain, we did not lose that game because of anything Kris Brown did or did not do.


Twice.

houstonspartan
11-28-2009, 10:37 PM
Let's get beyond the standard lines like, "coaches are measured by wins and losses" or "you are what your record is", etc... All of those statements have an element of truth in them when applied to the proper context. I am very frustrated right now that this team is no better than 5-5. But, I am very excited that this team has the ability to finish 11-5. Rick Smith, together with Kubiak and his staff, have developed a highly competitive and talented team. The ability displayed on the field goes beyond the player assessment and to player development. I don't think a reasonable owner can blow up a coaching staff/organization that has put together this talented and young of a team, developed them, and has the team playing hard for them.... particularly a year in front of a possible work stoppage. I don't expect nor would I agree with a regime change unless the team quits in December. While I share everyone's frustration to this point and disappointment if this team doesn't reach 10 wins, I just don't see that it is time to panic, despite of the weaknesses illustrated by Kubiak and staff to this point.

But, our record is what it is. We are 5-5.

We can't ignore that.

I had several people calling me this week. One was a sportswriter I'm good friends with. This person is very knowledgable about sports, and I trust their opinoin. This person's comment was: "You guys have a Super Bowl Quarterback."

And, my dad - who lives 1000 miles away - watched the game and called me. The first words out of his mouth were about our QB.

My point: Are we better than 5-5? Yes. We have a TOP SHELF QB who is ready to roll.

But, at the end of the day, our top shelf qb is 5-5.

That, unfortunately, is all that matters.

Norg
11-28-2009, 10:40 PM
Bassicaly

WIn and we can move on


Lose and well i guess we can start talking about the NFL draft LOL

Yankee_In_TX
11-28-2009, 10:40 PM
...so we don't fall below .500

/thread :)

Texan4Ever
11-28-2009, 10:44 PM
Dwight Freeney will sit Sunday VS the Texans so thats one more reason for us to hope we can pull off an upset!

:snowday: - "All I want for X-Mas is to see the Texans in the playoffs, is that too much to ask?"

eriadoc
11-28-2009, 11:54 PM
Let's get beyond the standard lines like, "coaches are measured by wins and losses" or "you are what your record is", etc... All of those statements have an element of truth in them when applied to the proper context. I am very frustrated right now that this team is no better than 5-5. But, I am very excited that this team has the ability to finish 11-5. Rick Smith, together with Kubiak and his staff, have developed a highly competitive and talented team. The ability displayed on the field goes beyond the player assessment and to player development. I don't think a reasonable owner can blow up a coaching staff/organization that has put together this talented and young of a team, developed them, and has the team playing hard for them.... particularly a year in front of a possible work stoppage. I don't expect nor would I agree with a regime change unless the team quits in December. While I share everyone's frustration to this point and disappointment if this team doesn't reach 10 wins, I just don't see that it is time to panic, despite of the weaknesses illustrated by Kubiak and staff to this point.

This team has shown me nothing to make me believe that they can rip off a six game winning streak. They have a chance to win any game they play now, which is a huge improvement over past seasons. They don't shoot themselves in the foot quite as often as they did last year. But they still don't score enough points, they still don't covert key 3rd downs, and they still find a way to lose. They are a 5-5 team.

dalemurphy
11-29-2009, 12:10 AM
But, our record is what it is. We are 5-5.

We can't ignore that.

I had several people calling me this week. One was a sportswriter I'm good friends with. This person is very knowledgable about sports, and I trust their opinoin. This person's comment was: "You guys have a Super Bowl Quarterback."

And, my dad - who lives 1000 miles away - watched the game and called me. The first words out of his mouth were about our QB.

My point: Are we better than 5-5? Yes. We have a TOP SHELF QB who is ready to roll.

But, at the end of the day, our top shelf qb is 5-5.

That, unfortunately, is all that matters.

It is all that matters in regards to this season's playoff race. But, if you are assessing the future course of the team, you had better factor in other things besides just the win - loss record... and, that's my point. This season can be a disappointment without it meaning the removal of those ultimately responsible for the disappointment.

dalemurphy
11-29-2009, 12:13 AM
This team has shown me nothing to make me believe that they can rip off a six game winning streak. They have a chance to win any game they play now, which is a huge improvement over past seasons. They don't shoot themselves in the foot quite as often as they did last year. But they still don't score enough points, they still don't covert key 3rd downs, and they still find a way to lose. They are a 5-5 team.

They haven't been outmatched since week one. That, to me, points to the potential of a very strong finish. Believe me, I'm not guaranteeing one, but I am not writing the season off before it happens... and, not just because of some silly fan loyalty but because this team is good enough to beat anybody and to dominate a few as well... St Louis and Seattle are wins in the bag. If we win the next two, we are sitting at 9-5. I'll mourn the season if that fails to happen. But, not yet!

houstonspartan
11-29-2009, 12:29 AM
It is all that matters in regards to this season's playoff race. But, if you are assessing the future course of the team, you had better factor in other things besides just the win - loss record... and, that's my point. This season can be a disappointment without it meaning the removal of those ultimately responsible for the disappointment.

WTF?????

Are you kidding me with this?

How many disappointments do we need? What will be this year's excuse. Last year, I reluctantly accepted 8-8 because, as was conventional wisdom, it was a "better" 8-8 than the 8-8 the year before. Last year, I ignored the win-loss record.

But, this year, the stars have aligned perfectly. There are no excuses for an 8-8 this year.

Again: We have a TOP NOTCH QB and a TOP NOTCH WR. Yet, we are 5-5.

That.Is.A.Problem.

TheRealJoker
11-29-2009, 12:34 AM
They haven't been outmatched since week one. That, to me, points to the potential of a very strong finish. Believe me, I'm not guaranteeing one, but I am not writing the season off before it happens... and, not just because of some silly fan loyalty but because this team is good enough to beat anybody and to dominate a few as well... St Louis and Seattle are wins in the bag. If we win the next two, we are sitting at 9-5. I'll mourn the season if that fails to happen. But, not yet!

There is no such thing as "wins in the bag" for this team. If we can somehow beat both Indy and the Jags you better believe there's a high possibility that the Rams game is a trap game after all the effort the Texans will have expended to defeat two division rivals.

Plus, lets not forget that the Seahawks beat the Jags 41-0!!! I do not want to take a team that is capable of doing something like that to a team that beat us in our house very lightly and count them as a "win in the bag".

ObsiWan
11-29-2009, 12:44 AM
They haven't been outmatched since week one. That, to me, points to the potential of a very strong finish. Believe me, I'm not guaranteeing one, but I am not writing the season off before it happens... and, not just because of some silly fan loyalty but because this team is good enough to beat anybody and to dominate a few as well... St Louis and Seattle are wins in the bag. If we win the next two, we are sitting at 9-5. I'll mourn the season if that fails to happen. But, not yet!

Then you have to ask yourself why are we looking up at Jacksonville and Indy? Why do we have a team that was 0-6 breathing down our necks?

Something's missing.

Personally, I think that something is up front in the offensive line. I don't think a coaching change is in order. The plays they've called in the aforementioned "heart-breaking situs would have worked with more push up front. I think upgrades in the middle of the O-line are in order.
With a better line, Chris Brown makes it into the endzone against AZ.
...and against Jacksonville
...Maybe Moats has a clear lane to run into the endzone against the Colts.
...Maybe Steve Slaton isn't suffering what seems to be the feared "sophomore slump".

Then again, maybe we are who our record says we are. The "almost there" guys. With a better O-line maybe we get over that "almost there' crap.

I sure would like to find out.

houstonspartan
11-29-2009, 12:48 AM
Then you have to ask yourself why are we looking up at Jacksonville and Indy? Why do we have a team that was 0-6 breathing down our necks?

Something's missing.

Personally, I think that something is up front in the offensive line. I don't think a coaching change is in order. The plays they've called in the aforementioned "heart-breaking situs would have worked with more push up front. I think upgrades in the middle of the O-line are in order.
With a better line, Chris Brown makes it into the endzone against AZ.
...and against Jacksonville
...Maybe Moats has a clear lane to run into the endzone against the Colts.
...Maybe Steve Slaton isn't suffering what seems to be the feared "sophomore slump".

Then again, maybe we are who our record says we are. The "almost there" guys. With a better O-line maybe we get over that "almost there' crap.

I sure would like to find out.


Exactly. We had a nice little 2nd place spot, but the Jags (a team that SUCKS with a coach that should have been fired two years ago) passed us. And, the Titans (a team that started 0-6) are on our asses like white on rice.

utahmark
11-29-2009, 01:10 AM
This team has shown me nothing to make me believe that they can rip off a six game winning streak. They have a chance to win any game they play now, which is a huge improvement over past seasons. They don't shoot themselves in the foot quite as often as they did last year. But they still don't score enough points, they still don't covert key 3rd downs, and they still find a way to lose. They are a 5-5 team.

so the team is better, they are improving, yet we fire the people responsible for that improvement.

Vinny
11-29-2009, 01:12 AM
so the team is better, they are improving, yet we fire the people responsible for that improvement.
yeah, thank goodness we have the only coach in the league capable of taking this team to .500

utahmark
11-29-2009, 01:14 AM
yeah, thank goodness we have the only coach in the league capable of taking this team to .500

we have had worse.

houstonspartan
11-29-2009, 01:15 AM
yeah, thank goodness we have the only coach in the league capable of taking this team to .500

Exactly. It's not as simple as "we can't fire the people who helped us improve."

I like Kubes, but I'm not willing to give him a 50 year contract like some people.

houstonspartan
11-29-2009, 01:16 AM
we have had worse.


Seriously, dude, that's no argument. Ok, we've had worse. So?

We give Kubes a lifetime contract because he's not Dom Capers?

utahmark
11-29-2009, 01:22 AM
Seriously, dude, that's no argument. Ok, we've had worse. So?

We give Kubes a lifetime contract because he's not Dom Capers?

i personally would'nt do anything more than a year. depending of course on what happens the rest of the season. just don't think you fire a coach that keeps putting a better team on the field year after year. i know, we are still a 500 club, but if you don't think this team right now is the best most competitive team we have had then i'm not sure what to say to that.

houstonspartan
11-29-2009, 01:33 AM
i personally would'nt do anything more than a year. depending of course on what happens the rest of the season. just don't think you fire a coach that keeps putting a better team on the field year after year. i know, we are still a 500 club, but if you don't think this team right now is the best most competitive team we have had then i'm not sure what to say to that.

Yes, it is the best team we've ever had. I'm not saying point blank fire Kubes. I'm saying we need to really think about our coaching staff.

Remember when the NFL schedule was announced last summer? Texans fans were like kids on Christmas morning? Why? Because we had a favorable schedule. Even Kubiak said so.

That favorable schedule combined with everyone returning healthy had everyone fired up.

But then, there was another issue to deal with: Matt Schaub. Would he play to his potential this year?

Not only has he played to his potential, but, as I said, a lot of experts think he can take us to the Super Bowl.

So: Everyone returns healthy. We shored up the D line. Cushing is bringing his A game. Pollard is a beast. Andre is Andre (meaning excellent). Schaub is Mr. Pro Bowl. The schedule favors us. We get a late bye week. Jacksonville stumbles out the gate. Tennessee goes 0-6.

Given all of that, why are we 5-5?

utahmark
11-29-2009, 02:06 AM
Yes, it is the best team we've ever had. I'm not saying point blank fire Kubes. I'm saying we need to really think about our coaching staff.

Remember when the NFL schedule was announced last summer? Texans fans were like kids on Christmas morning? Why? Because we had a favorable schedule. Even Kubiak said so.

That favorable schedule combined with everyone returning healthy had everyone fired up.

But then, there was another issue to deal with: Matt Schaub. Would he play to his potential this year?

Not only has he played to his potential, but, as I said, a lot of experts think he can take us to the Super Bowl.

So: Everyone returns healthy. We shored up the D line. Cushing is bringing his A game. Pollard is a beast. Andre is Andre (meaning excellent). Schaub is Mr. Pro Bowl. The schedule favors us. We get a late bye week. Jacksonville stumbles out the gate. Tennessee goes 0-6.

Given all of that, why are we 5-5?

good points. and i'm not saying he stays no matter what. i would keep him if the season ended today, but maybe not tomorrow.

the scheadule may have looked good before the season but it's not like we have lost to bad teams, and we played a couple of teams at the worst possible time. you do have to overcome that to be a playoff team though. and to some extent we have.

we played good football against some good teams, the breaks just have'nt went our way. jeff fisher for example; one throwback pass does'nt happen. he's never accomplished much of anything, with no real playoff run's. he's probably not even coaching in tenn. anymore. instead people think he's one of the best. all a coach can do is put a good team out there and hopefully get some breaks and win. kubes has done everything but get the right breaks. either that or he's just such a bad "gameday" coach that he will never get enough breaks to compensate.

MannyFresh
11-29-2009, 02:34 AM
Jeez what if this scenario last second epic fail happens again?

Carr Bombed
11-29-2009, 02:49 AM
Correction....

"WE" don't have to win this game.....Kubiak does and that goes for the majority of the games left on the schedule if he wants to save his job this season.

People who act like his seat shouldn't be extremely hot right now need to wake up and smell the horrible steaming pile of mediocrity. (which in some cases can be worse than just flat out sucking, because you end up spending many wasted seasons waiting for the "next step" that just never comes :rolleyes:). So far Kubiak has shown to be nothing more than a .500 coach who'll never get over that hump. The guy coaches not to lose and he may be one of the worst game managers I've ever seen in the NFL. Then when you throw in the fact that he coaches a finesse (which is just a nice way of saying soft) system, it's no wonder we lose the majority of the close games that we're in.

StevieWonder
11-29-2009, 03:05 AM
Jeez what if this scenario last second epic fail happens again?

If we don't get blown out then I expect this to happen again.

Carr Bombed
11-29-2009, 03:11 AM
i personally would'nt do anything more than a year. depending of course on what happens the rest of the season. just don't think you fire a coach that keeps putting a better team on the field year after year. i know, we are still a 500 club, but if you don't think this team right now is the best most competitive team we have had then i'm not sure what to say to that.

The Kubiak era Houston Texans....

YEAR IN AND YEAR OUT, THE BEST DOGGUM 8-8 TEAM IN THE HISTORY OF THE NFL. :rolleyes:

This team is flat out underachieving and there's no way around that. That "improved talent" you speak of is eventually going to get Kubiak fired, because with "improved talent" comes "raised expectations" and Kubiak is failing to be able to meet them.

Lucky
11-29-2009, 05:50 AM
yeah, thank goodness we have the only coach in the league capable of taking this team to .500

we have had worse.

We can have better.

either that or he's just such a bad "gameday" coach that he will never get enough breaks to compensate.
Is there really any question that Kubiak is a poor gameday coach?

This is really the same discussion from the offseason. What do the Texans have to do for Gary Kubiak to keep his job? There were fans who suggested that the Texans needed to make the playoffs. Others felt a winning record was required. There was a strong contingent that believed the Texans would just need to display another year of "improvement" that didn't necessarily have to be reflected in the win-loss columns. And some that were sure that Kubiak was a lock for 2010, barring a 2-14esqe meltdown.

Many of the same fans are sticking with their arguments. For which I complement them. So, I'll stick with mine:

2010 will be the Texans head coach's 5th season, and last on his current contract. The question in the thread starter was what has to happen for the head coach to get an extension (after the 2009 season).

The reasoning is that few owners put their head coach in a position to be a lame duck, by coaching on the final year of a contract. Which is why some (like myself) believe that the Texans have to win (and the coach is extended) or he is terminated with 1 year left on his contract.


I've seen enough over the course of 3 seasons to believe that Gary Kubiak is not the coach to lead the Houston Texans to a championship. But, I very, very, very much want to be proven wrong. I don't think I will be.

Well, it's 10/16ths into year 4, and I still don't see Gary Kubiak leading this franchise to a championship. I do believe the Texans are capable of winning any their final 6 games. Winning all six would require the type of overachievment I have yet to see the Texans display under Kubiak. I don't think it will happen. But, I want to be proven wrong.

Thorn
11-29-2009, 06:03 AM
Well, it's 10/16ths into year 4, and I still don't see Gary Kubiak leading this franchise to a championship. I do believe the Texans are capable of winning any their final 6 games. Winning all six would require the type of overachievment I have yet to see the Texans display under Kubiak. I don't think it will happen. But, I want to be proven wrong.

The Texans will not go 11-5 this year, they have neither the offensive line, a RB, or a defensive secondary that can do the job consistently.


For the billionth time, and we are ALL tired of the same ole same ole, but the best we can hope for is simply a winning season and more patching of holes during the off season. If we don't get a franchise RB and a good CB and/or safety this offseason, we'll be saying the same thing this time next year too.

Kubiak and Smith have taken the team from being a typical bottom feeder to a typical middle of the road team. They haven't done what needs to be done to take this team past mediocre to a playoff team yet.

HJam72
11-29-2009, 07:52 AM
9-7. I want this team to make the playoffs really bad, just like the rest of you, and I know that won't cut it, but I think 9 wins should keep him his job--even though it will drive us crazy. :hairpull:

Looking at the schedule the other day, I came up with 9 wins, including losses in I believe our next 2 games (Colts & Jax), which will have us infuriated, but that's life. Anyway, that's what I'm expecting to happen and anything worse is unacceptable. Anything better is great.

PS-Just remembered I came up with 8 OR 9 wins the other day. I do agree that it's time to discuss Kubiak's future. Things are getting tight.

Imatexanfan
11-29-2009, 07:59 AM
9-7. I want this team to make the playoffs really bad, just like the rest of you, and I know that won't cut it, but I think 9 wins should keep him his job--even though it will drive us crazy. :hairpull:

Looking at the schedule the other day, I came up with 9 wins, including losses in I believe our next 2 games (Colts & Jax), which will have us infuriated, but that's life. Anyway, that's what I'm expecting to happen and anything worse is unacceptable. Anything better is great.

I agree with you on the fact that we should keep him. It's just the fact we expect so much more out of them and yet they fail to win. I just hate going season after season thinking we have a greater chance of making the playoffs when in all reality we don't or can't. But that is the part of being a fan, so if we don't make the playoffs, yes I will ***** n moan but hell I'll still pull for the Texans regardless.:texflag:

Scooter
11-29-2009, 08:16 AM
the thing that i keep coming back to with these kubiak discussions is that the NFL stands for Not For Long. in all but the most important way, this is true ... what matters however is that I will be a texans fan for a long time. because of my fandom tomorrow and in april and in 2013 and for as long as i'm here, i'd like to see kubiak continue on as our coach for atleast another season. even if we could see the future and know that kubiak couldnt coach the team to a championship in the next couple of years, i'll accept that if it means we continue to build our roster and teach our young players as well as we have under kubiak. with what he's done with 4 drafts and 3 free agencies (most forget that he was handcuffed with sherman), i'm just plain excited to see who our next mario or owen daniels or brian cushing or duane brown or demeco ryans or ... i think you get the point. if we could also (finally) land that perfect free agent at the perfect position (casey hampton?), i think we could very well have a gary kubiak day in houston.

if it takes someone else to coach the finished product to the promised land in a couple of years and continue what we've got, awesome. i'm not excited however about the prospect of a "belichick disciple" or another coach hired based on potential coming in and blowing up where we're heading.

Vinny
11-29-2009, 08:26 AM
the thing that i keep coming back to with these kubiak discussions is that the NFL stands for Not For Long...

... i think we could very well have a gary kubiak day in houston.


lol at Gary Kubiak day. Only here in Houston I guess.

My biggest problem with the team is how glacier slow they make decisions in a league of lightning quick evaluations and 12 min half time game adjustments. I fully expect to see Kubiak and his Bubba Gump Head Coaching skills next year....his team will look much like it has the first 48 games. .500 and optimistic about how they are "on the verge" as Andre Johnson enters his 8th season, one year removed from 30 years old. pathetic.

These Texans would have taken 6 years to build a team around Earl Campbell when he only had 5 years of premier level play to give. At least the Oilers knew how to gear up for a playoff run. It never friggin' worked out (winning it all) but they sure did know how to get invited to the dance. Bud never sat on stupid near as long as these guys do.

CloakNNNdagger
11-29-2009, 08:44 AM
yeah, thank goodness we have the only coach in the league capable of taking this team to .500

Yeh, we have a pattern of being told we are being served fillet mignon while in actuality we are eating high grade turd..........an acquired taste, you know.

infantrycak
11-29-2009, 08:48 AM
I wanted Capers gone because he never attended to what was supposed to be his expertise - defense. That cannot be said of Kubiak. He has built an offense other teams respect. I'm not inclined to change just for change's sake. I'd want to know for next to certain before firing Kubiak I was getting someone better. Narrowing that even further is not changing everything the team is built for. So hypothetically Fisher comes available - are we going to rebuild to our weakness instead of our strength and Eddie George our way down the field? If you're firing someone because you are impatient to wait a year, shouldn't the replacement be someone whose system changes aren't going to take a couple years of drafts to implement? This team is built for passing. Schaub has under 250 yds in passing in 2 games this year - 1 because the OL decided not to play and 1 because they were dominating the game. That's the problem I see with bringing in a Shottenheimer or Cowher. And I don't see where the significant upgrade is in Holmgren or Shanahan. It isn't good enough to just identify a problem, you have to also provide a solution.

Scooter
11-29-2009, 08:57 AM
lol at Gary Kubiak day. Only here in Houston I guess.

My biggest problem with the team is how glacier slow they make decisions in a league of lightning quick evaluations and 12 min half time game adjustments. I fully expect to see Kubiak and his Bubba Gump Head Coaching skills next year....his team will look much like it has the first 48 games. .500 and optimistic about how they are "on the verge" as Andre Johnson enters his 8th season, one year removed from 30 years old. pathetic.

These Texans would have taken 6 years to build a team around Earl Campbell when he only had 5 years of premier level play to give. At least the Oilers knew how to gear up for a playoff run. It never friggin' worked out (winning it all) but they sure did know how to get invited to the dance. Bud never sat on stupid near as long as these guys do.

i was being facetious with the "gary kubiak day", i figured that would've been obvious lol. we are moving at a snail's pace, and maybe i'm stuck in the "expansion team" mode. i just see the arguements for brand new coaches and so many comparrisons trying to be made for these texans and what a new coach COULD do that dont really compare at all. all i see is a grass is greener mentality while ignoring the flops - a potential mangenius scares the crap out of me. situations like with miami and atlanta and arizona and new orleans dont relate to the texans. the closest matches are cleveland and carolina if i remember right as them being the latest expansions. even these teams had a legitimate base to get started from ... the texans started with next to nothing and went backwards in 4 years. from absolute zero to where we are now, in my mind is very impressive and i think there's a whole lot more to come.

we're not plugging earl campbell into a team and adding key pieces to support him, we're plugging in everybody and adding everybody to support them. if the comparrison works, we had andre johnson on offense and added kevin walter opposite, owen daniels at tightend, traded picks to bring in matt schaub, upgraded all but 1 offensive line position (including depth), and we got THE biggest name in offensive line coaches all in a span of 3 seasons ... where did we miss? i tend to be a homer to a fault, but from that perspective i've got time to see it through.

utahmark
11-29-2009, 09:13 AM
lol at Gary Kubiak day. Only here in Houston I guess.

My biggest problem with the team is how glacier slow they make decisions in a league of lightning quick evaluations and 12 min half time game adjustments. I fully expect to see Kubiak and his Bubba Gump Head Coaching skills next year....his team will look much like it has the first 48 games. .500 and optimistic about how they are "on the verge" as Andre Johnson enters his 8th season, one year removed from 30 years old. pathetic.

These Texans would have taken 6 years to build a team around Earl Campbell when he only had 5 years of premier level play to give. At least the Oilers knew how to gear up for a playoff run. It never friggin' worked out (winning it all) but they sure did know how to get invited to the dance. Bud never sat on stupid near as long as these guys do.

and they were horrible for the next 6 years after that. i did'nt keep up with football close enough back then to know what really happened(i was 10) but i'm guessing they gave away their future for 1 big shot. what kubes is trying to do with this houston team will be better if it works. they want a team that will compete every year, more like the 90 oilers(who did struggle a couple of years before they finally got it right).

Scooter
11-29-2009, 09:28 AM
.500 and optimistic about how they are "on the verge" as Andre Johnson enters his 8th season, one year removed from 30 years old. pathetic.

it's obvious i've had my bourbons, i'm being arguementative ... but this is 100% my point. andre johnson, our old man, our seasoned home grown veteran, our team leader, the best player on our team, IT, everything on offense, the most feared texan. IS 29 YEARS OLD!

when AJ's in hines ward territory (35 and elite despite andre's talents), then we might have something of a problem ... but as i've said repeatedly, at that point our current roster will be 25-29 years old and in their prime. andre johnson and chester pitts and dunta robinson are the home grown veterans kubiak has to work with ... yes, that's all of them.

Vinny
11-29-2009, 09:42 AM
and they were horrible for the next 6 years after that. i did'nt keep up with football close enough back then to know what really happened(i was 10) but i'm guessing they gave away their future for 1 big shot. what kubes is trying to do with this houston team will be better if it works. they want a team that will compete every year, more like the 90 oilers(who did struggle a couple of years before they finally got it right).After Bum, the Oilers were never down long because they had Mike Holovak who was one of the best personnel guys in the league. Earl was with the team till 84 and he was in full decline by then and then came the Warren Moon years right behind him in 84. Those old Oilers rebuilt quickly and didn't stay a team that didn't matter for long. They had the second best team in the NFL with Earl then they rebuilt for a couple of years with Glanville and were a playoff team for seven consecutive seasons.

utahmark
11-29-2009, 10:15 AM
After Bum, the Oilers were never down long because they had Mike Holovak who was one of the best personnel guys in the league. Earl was with the team till 84 and he was in full decline by then and then came the Warren Moon years right behind him in 84. Those old Oilers rebuilt quickly and didn't stay a team that didn't matter for long. They had the second best team in the NFL with Earl then they rebuilt for a couple of years with Glanville and were a playoff team for seven consecutive seasons.

6 years of losing football from 81 to 86. after 81 they didnt win more than 5 games till 87. they made the playoffs in 87, 4 years after going 2 and 14. but they were not really a team that had any real shot at winning a super bowl untill the early 90's, ten years after the glory days.

maybe these texans just miss the playoff's instead of barely squeeking in like those oilers of the late 80's. does'nt really matter much they were not a factor once they got there. what does matter is that we are seeing the same type of improvement with our football team today. and just maybe these early defeats and almost wins will better prepare us for when it really matters a year or two from now.

don't get me wrong i would much rather see our team make the playoff's. but in the big picture whether we just miss the playoff's or whether we do get in doesnt matter as much as if we keep getting better.(don't really think we have the talent to win the super bowl this year, although we are closer than some think)

as long as i feel this team is improving i think we should stay the course. the second they show a downward slide i will be right there with anyone who wants kubes gone.

DexmanC
11-29-2009, 10:29 AM
If Kubiak's team plays with the fire and guts it has over the last 9 games,
win or lose, Kubiak stays. Capers was fired, because his team FLAT OUT
QUIT.

awtysst
11-29-2009, 10:32 AM
No team in football this season has endured the heartbreak that the Houston Texans have. Teams have had tough losses, but none rival the amount the 5-5 Texans have had. During Monday night's 20-17 loss against Tennessee, Houston kicker Kris Brown missed two 49-yard field goals, including one on the last play of the game. In Week 9 at Indianapolis, Brown missed a 42-yard field goal that would have tied the game and sent it to overtime. Then the Texans had a bye to stew about that tough loss before returning for the Monday night heartbreak.:gun:

Earlier this season, Texans running back Chris Brown fumbled just before he would have scored what would have been a game-winning touchdown against Jacksonville. And Brown also failed to get 1 yard on a fourth-and-goal play from the 1-yard line against Arizona, a play that could have sent the game to overtime.The Texans just as easily could be 9-1 as they are 5-5, but they have failed to convert in the red zone or in the clutch. Now they get a chance to redeem themselves Sunday versus the unbeaten Colts. It will not be easy. But none of the Texans' losses this season has been. :foottap:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=schefter_adam&id=4689690


As a fanbase, we need to be more honest with ourselves
and not buy into revisionist history. When Brown fumbled against the Jags in week 3 the score was 31-24, a 7 point deficit. So, the td that Brown may have gotten would have TIED the game, not won it. The game would have gone into OT and who knows what may have happened.

Secondly, I don't buy into the whole we could easily be 9-1 BS. right now we are 5-5. Lets looks at the 5 losses:
1. Jets: we lost 24-7.
2. Jags: lost 31-24. As stated earlier, we would have TIED the game and not won it. In OT, they may have won the toss, and driven down for a score. So, there is no way you can say we would have won this game if Brown holds onto the ball.
3. Cardinals: lost 28-21.: See Jags game. Basically the same situation. No guarantee you win if you get to OT.
4. Colts: lost 20-17. : Are you sensing a pattern yet? A Brown kick gets you to OT. How many times have the Colts won the toss and then Manning has led them to a game winning score? Too many to remember.
5. Titans: lost 20-17. Again, a kick does not WIN anything it gets you to OT.

So, there you have it. It is silly to say we are a play or two from 9-1, we are what we are an average team. Had we gotten the score we were trying for, we would have merely gotten to OT and not gotten a W.

As a fan base we need to take our blinders off, stop sipping our Koolaid, and recognize the team that we have and not the team we all want.

utahmark
11-29-2009, 10:42 AM
As a fanbase, we need to be more honest with ourselves
and not buy into revisionist history. When Brown fumbled against the Jags in week 3 the score was 31-24, a 7 point deficit. So, the td that Brown may have gotten would have TIED the game, not won it. The game would have gone into OT and who knows what may have happened.

Secondly, I don't buy into the whole we could easily be 9-1 BS. right now we are 5-5. Lets looks at the 5 losses:
1. Jets: we lost 24-7.
2. Jags: lost 31-24. As stated earlier, we would have TIED the game and not won it. In OT, they may have won the toss, and driven down for a score. So, there is no way you can say we would have won this game if Brown holds onto the ball.
3. Cardinals: lost 28-21.: See Jags game. Basically the same situation. No guarantee you win if you get to OT.
4. Colts: lost 20-17. : Are you sensing a pattern yet? A Brown kick gets you to OT. How many times have the Colts won the toss and then Manning has led them to a game winning score? Too many to remember.
5. Titans: lost 20-17. Again, a kick does not WIN anything it gets you to OT.

So, there you have it. It is silly to say we are a play or two from 9-1, we are what we are an average team. Had we gotten the score we were trying for, we would have merely gotten to OT and not gotten a W.

As a fan base we need to take our blinders off, stop sipping our Koolaid, and recognize the team that we have and not the team we all want.

we are just 4 plays away from being 7 and 3.:wacko:

DexmanC
11-29-2009, 10:47 AM
As a fanbase, we need to be more honest with ourselves
and not buy into revisionist history. When Brown fumbled against the Jags in week 3 the score was 31-24, a 7 point deficit. So, the td that Brown may have gotten would have TIED the game, not won it. The game would have gone into OT and who knows what may have happened.

Secondly, I don't buy into the whole we could easily be 9-1 BS. right now we are 5-5. Lets looks at the 5 losses:
1. Jets: we lost 24-7.
2. Jags: lost 31-24. As stated earlier, we would have TIED the game and not won it. In OT, they may have won the toss, and driven down for a score. So, there is no way you can say we would have won this game if Brown holds onto the ball.
3. Cardinals: lost 28-21.: See Jags game. Basically the same situation. No guarantee you win if you get to OT.
4. Colts: lost 20-17. : Are you sensing a pattern yet? A Brown kick gets you to OT. How many times have the Colts won the toss and then Manning has led them to a game winning score? Too many to remember.
5. Titans: lost 20-17. Again, a kick does not WIN anything it gets you to OT.

So, there you have it. It is silly to say we are a play or two from 9-1, we are what we are an average team. Had we gotten the score we were trying for, we would have merely gotten to OT and not gotten a W.

As a fan base we need to take our blinders off, stop sipping our Koolaid, and recognize the team that we have and not the team we all want.

I see another pattern

Cardinals: Spotted them a 21-0 lead, also giving up two of those
touchdowns in LESS than two minutes, tied the score in the 3rd quarter,
but didn't put the game away in the 4th quarter

Colts: Spotted them a 13-0 lead, came back late to take the lead, only
to have a D-lineman blow a tackle when he came free to the runner, and
lost it. We didn't score any points in the 4th quarter to put the game
away.

Tennessee: actually went up 7-0 in this game, but didn't make the final
play to put the game away.

The Texans have the fewest 4th quarter points I've ever seen them have
under Kubiak. This team has consistently given up an early lead, only to
have no scoring at all, save for the Buffalo game, on the back end.

If they expect to win, they have to correct that. Hold your opponent early,
and score late.

houstonspartan
11-29-2009, 11:13 AM
As a fanbase, we need to be more honest with ourselves
and not buy into revisionist history. When Brown fumbled against the Jags in week 3 the score was 31-24, a 7 point deficit. So, the td that Brown may have gotten would have TIED the game, not won it. The game would have gone into OT and who knows what may have happened.

Secondly, I don't buy into the whole we could easily be 9-1 BS. right now we are 5-5. Lets looks at the 5 losses:
1. Jets: we lost 24-7.
2. Jags: lost 31-24. As stated earlier, we would have TIED the game and not won it. In OT, they may have won the toss, and driven down for a score. So, there is no way you can say we would have won this game if Brown holds onto the ball.
3. Cardinals: lost 28-21.: See Jags game. Basically the same situation. No guarantee you win if you get to OT.
4. Colts: lost 20-17. : Are you sensing a pattern yet? A Brown kick gets you to OT. How many times have the Colts won the toss and then Manning has led them to a game winning score? Too many to remember.
5. Titans: lost 20-17. Again, a kick does not WIN anything it gets you to OT.

So, there you have it. It is silly to say we are a play or two from 9-1, we are what we are an average team. Had we gotten the score we were trying for, we would have merely gotten to OT and not gotten a W.

As a fan base we need to take our blinders off, stop sipping our Koolaid, and recognize the team that we have and not the team we all want.

Amen. Realistically, the colts game and the titans game would have been ties with the chance to win. Both games would have come down to the coin flip.

Imatexanfan
11-29-2009, 02:48 PM
Its 35-10 2mins in 4th, Colts good game Texans:foottap:

I really thought we could have won this one.

Imatexanfan
11-29-2009, 02:55 PM
I mean 35-27:fans:

utahmark
11-30-2009, 10:24 AM
like i said. as long as this team is improving i will stick with the current staff................ that game yesterday was not improvement.

HoustonFrog
11-30-2009, 10:31 AM
If Kubiak's team plays with the fire and guts it has over the last 9 games,
win or lose, Kubiak stays. Capers was fired, because his team FLAT OUT
QUIT.

What does fire and guts mean when the coach makes boneheaded moves to counter the fire and guts?

GP
11-30-2009, 10:48 AM
What does fire and guts mean when the coach makes boneheaded moves to counter the fire and guts?

Because our owner desires to give people 2nd chances, 3rd chances, and 24th chances, etc.

He doesn't have the ability to let go.

Kubiak should have been fired yesterday afternoon. Period.

There will always be pockets of time when the players rally around an embattled coach. They'll pull off a win or two, maybe even three-in-a-row, and it gives off the appearance that the tide is turning.

But ultimately, we have to look at the bigger picture. His divisional record, IIRC, is worse than Capers' was when he coached here. The Jags are beatable. The Titans are always a coin flip, with our losses coming due to bizarre events that confound all of us, and the Colts are understandable losses because of who they are right now.

I would have fired the guy, promoted Frank Bush to interim head coach, and Bill Cowher would be in Houston this week to talk about what he wants in order to be the next coach of the Texans.

Sometimes, I don't think the Texans understand that the pace of the NFL is as fast as it is. It's a blur. More teams are going to be dumping their head coaches soon, which means more bidders for Cowher.

McNair is shooting himself in the foot by refusing to act in an urgent manner. All he's doing is prolonging the inevitable. He's making life miserable for everyone. Not even winning the remaining games can undo what has been lost this season thus far.

GP
11-30-2009, 10:53 AM
Plus, I don't think Rick Smith would have to leave just because Cowher becomes the HC.

Rick has proven (to me, at least) that he can decipher player value, contract value, and look at the big picture. There has been some questioning of the Dunta, DeMeco, and OD situations. Rick Smith wisely withheld OD's contract adjustment and look what happened: OD has a season-ending injury. It sucks, but it's business. That's his job.

There has been a leap forward by Kubiak and Smith, I'll admit that. Anybody can check my post history on this: I have always said that Rick Smith will remain even if Kubiak doesn't. The guy is doing a good job at what he was hired to do, IMO.

I think Cowher and Smith could easily coexist.