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View Full Version : Chrons Solomon wonders: Was Kubiak coaching poorly or coaching scared ?


nunusguy
11-28-2009, 08:50 AM
When Matt Schaub crawled to his right to center the ball in the final seconds against the Titans on Monday night, most were stunned. That's not how any coach with sense plays that. Not from that far out. Field goals from 49 yards aren't gimmies.
Not to mention that earlier this month, Kubiak said his kicker doesn't need the ball centered because “he's pretty good from everywhere.”
**
Don't you find it curious that in what some of you thought were the two “most important games in franchise history,” Kubiak made choices he had never made before in the final seconds?
Coaching scared.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/6742424.html

Pollardized
11-28-2009, 09:14 AM
When Matt Schaub crawled to his right to center the ball in the final seconds against the Titans on Monday night, most were stunned. That's not how any coach with sense plays that. Not from that far out. Field goals from 49 yards aren't gimmies.
Not to mention that earlier this month, Kubiak said his kicker doesn't need the ball centered because “he's pretty good from everywhere.”
**
Don't you find it curious that in what some of you thought were the two “most important games in franchise history,” Kubiak made choices he had never made before in the final seconds?
Coaching scared.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/6742424.html

As much as I like Kubiak, that's why I say we need a coach with cojones.

axman40
11-28-2009, 09:23 AM
Coaching with head up his anal orifice is my vote.
:pirate:

dalemurphy
11-28-2009, 09:48 AM
As much as I like Kubiak, that's why I say we need a coach with cojones.

If he would've just sent Brown out there with 8 seconds to go, we wouldn't be having this conversation. A lot of coaches would have simply done that. Brown has plenty of leg. There was no issue with a 49 yarder. That being said, I think Kubiak still struggles a little bit managing the clock. But, I just don't see a problem with what he did there.

What if they threw a slant to Walter for 8 yards and he got down with 3-4 seconds left.... but, the Titans swarmed around him but didn't touch him, waiting for the clock to run out. This isn't college and the play isn't over just because the player is on the ground.

bckey
11-28-2009, 10:00 AM
We had one timeout left and the Titans just can't restrain thereselves from hitting a Texan. It just wouldn't happen that way.

Dishman
11-28-2009, 02:28 PM
Texans clock management is unacceptably poor.

Corrosion
11-28-2009, 03:33 PM
If he would've just sent Brown out there with 8 seconds to go, we wouldn't be having this conversation. A lot of coaches would have simply done that. Brown has plenty of leg. There was no issue with a 49 yarder. That being said, I think Kubiak still struggles a little bit managing the clock. But, I just don't see a problem with what he did there.

What if they threw a slant to Walter for 8 yards and he got down with 3-4 seconds left.... but, the Titans swarmed around him but didn't touch him, waiting for the clock to run out. This isn't college and the play isn't over just because the player is on the ground.

You mean what happened to Slaton to end the first half ?

The Third Man
11-28-2009, 03:41 PM
Kubiak got Brown into a position where he could succeed. Considering the Texans offensive line, there was no good reason to be more aggressive in that situation. Second guessing Kubiak is fine, but not in this instance.

Corrosion
11-28-2009, 03:47 PM
Kubiak got Brown into a position where he could succeed. Considering the Texans offensive line, there was no good reason to be more aggressive in that situation. Second guessing Kubiak is fine, but not in this instance.

I have to agree - Take a sack in that situation and you are out of FG range -

Slaton has been putting the ball on the ground - Brown fumbled in the endzone earlier in the season.

Two weeks in a row the offense has put the team in position to take a game to OT only to miss FG's. I dont think its time to blow this team up. They just need to learn to make those 1-2 plays a game that make the difference between a W and an L. Considering they are one of (if not the) youngest teams in the NFL - Experience may be the best teacher ....

TheRealJoker
11-28-2009, 03:51 PM
I have to agree - Take a sack in that situation and you are out of FG range -

Slaton has been putting the ball on the ground - Brown fumbled in the endzone earlier in the season.

Two weeks in a row the offense has put the team in position to take a game to OT only to miss FG's. I dont think its time to blow this team up. They just need to learn to make those 1-2 plays a game that make the difference between a W and an L. Considering they are one of (if not the) youngest teams in the NFL - Experience may be the best teacher ....

IF the team is too young to make these types of plays that the coaches/FOs fault. Kubiak has been here for 4 years, this is his personnel. If he needs veteran leadership on the field in crucial situations (I think he does) he should've told Rick Smith to find some in FA.

axman40
11-28-2009, 04:24 PM
Kubiak got Brown into a position where he could succeed. Considering the Texans offensive line, there was no good reason to be more aggressive in that situation. Second guessing Kubiak is fine, but not in this instance.
Unless of course you want a chance to win in regulation time.
:kitten:

Wolf
11-28-2009, 04:32 PM
Brown make the field goal and we tie it up. got to OT and we win, everyone says YEAH.. if we lost in OT, we'd second guess something else. just human nature.

I think that he did the right thing, center the ball and let brown kick it.


I don't know what has gotten into the texans ST this year.


we are 11-17 this season.


I don't know how many of his kicks were blocked

I do know in the first colts game he a 50 yarder blocked earlier in the game only to get nullified by a time out by the Colts, then he made it

Corrosion
11-28-2009, 06:41 PM
IF the team is too young to make these types of plays that the coaches/FOs fault. Kubiak has been here for 4 years, this is his personnel. If he needs veteran leadership on the field in crucial situations (I think he does) he should've told Rick Smith to find some in FA.


We have seen improvement from this team each year - If this young team is allowed to learn these lessons on the field - and kept together - there is the potential for long term success. They could (should) become contenders for the next 6-7 years.


You dont build a winning orginization overnight nor by having a revolving door for coaches or players.

TheRealJoker
11-28-2009, 07:18 PM
We have seen improvement from this team each year - If this young team is allowed to learn these lessons on the field - and kept together - there is the potential for long term success. They could (should) become contenders for the next 6-7 years.


You dont build a winning orginization overnight nor by having a revolving door for coaches or players.

We went 8-8 back to back...that's not an improvement where it counts.

Does it take half a decade to turn a team into a contender? Kubiak has had 4 years and has his personnel on the field. Its his fault if his players are too young to know how to win a football game in crunch time, he should've added veteran leadership that could hold the youngster's hands while they play. If Kubiak can get this team to the playoffs I am all for him staying, but after 4 years and the only result is the team improving from terrible to average....there needs to be a change at the top.

Cardinals' HC Ken Whisenhunt (another first time HC...there goes that excuse Kubiak) has been to a SB and he inherited one of football's worst all time franchises AFTER Kubiak became HC for the Texans.

Sparano, Smith, and Harbaugh took their teams to the playoffs their first year on the job as an HC. If Kubiak has had 4 years and still no playoffs I dont care how much "closer" the losses are...we still haven't improved as much as we needed to in order to get to the playoffs which means we need to make a change at the top.

Pantherstang84
11-28-2009, 07:41 PM
We went 8-8 back to back...that's not an improvement where it counts.

Does it take half a decade to turn a team into a contender? Kubiak has had 4 years and has his personnel on the field. Its his fault if his players are too young to know how to win a football game in crunch time, he should've added veteran leadership that could hold the youngster's hands while they play. If Kubiak can get this team to the playoffs I am all for him staying, but after 4 years and the only result is the team improving from terrible to average....there needs to be a change at the top.

Cardinals' HC Ken Whisenhunt (another first time HC...there goes that excuse Kubiak) has been to a SB and he inherited one of football's worst all time franchises AFTER Kubiak became HC for the Texans.

Sparano, Smith, and Harbaugh took their teams to the playoffs their first year on the job as an HC. If Kubiak has had 4 years and still no playoffs I dont care how much "closer" the losses are...we still haven't improved as much as we needed to in order to get to the playoffs which means we need to make a change at the top.

This sounds like the ramblings of a sexually starved man. j/k :kingkong:

dalemurphy
11-28-2009, 08:00 PM
We went 8-8 back to back...that's not an improvement where it counts.

Does it take half a decade to turn a team into a contender? Kubiak has had 4 years and has his personnel on the field. Its his fault if his players are too young to know how to win a football game in crunch time, he should've added veteran leadership that could hold the youngster's hands while they play. If Kubiak can get this team to the playoffs I am all for him staying, but after 4 years and the only result is the team improving from terrible to average....there needs to be a change at the top.

Cardinals' HC Ken Whisenhunt (another first time HC...there goes that excuse Kubiak) has been to a SB and he inherited one of football's worst all time franchises AFTER Kubiak became HC for the Texans.
Sparano, Smith, and Harbaugh took their teams to the playoffs their first year on the job as an HC. If Kubiak has had 4 years and still no playoffs I dont care how much "closer" the losses are...we still haven't improved as much as we needed to in order to get to the playoffs which means we need to make a change at the top.


1. The Texans might reach the superbowl if they were in the NFC, particularly in the NFC West.

2. And, perhaps the Texans win the division if Peyton Manning goes down in week one with a torn ACL, like Brady did.

thunderkyss
11-28-2009, 08:01 PM
I have to agree - Take a sack in that situation and you are out of FG range -

Slaton has been putting the ball on the ground - Brown fumbled in the endzone earlier in the season.

Two weeks in a row the offense has put the team in position to take a game to OT only to miss FG's. I dont think its time to blow this team up. They just need to learn to make those 1-2 plays a game that make the difference between a W and an L. Considering they are one of (if not the) youngest teams in the NFL - Experience may be the best teacher ....

I agree with your take. But I don't agree with supporting Kubiak's decision.

I think one of the biggest problems HWSNBN had with his development , was that he was being taught not to to be stupid, instead of being taught how to succeed.

Same thing with our defense. We are now allowing our guys to play the game, & make plays, instead of playing not to lose.

I think we've played better to close out the last two seasons, because we had nothing to lose. Now that the games mean something... Kubiak is going to have to make these kind of decisions more often.

He's in a no win situation, because if we miss that field goal, or fumble the ball on the one, he'll be crucified.

But he can't stop putting our guys in position to win. We can't start playing not to lose.

I'm fine with a field goal, but if we finished the game with a time-out left, I can't agree with "centering" the ball. We'd have been better off getting the ball down the field.

thunderkyss
11-28-2009, 08:12 PM
We went 8-8 back to back...that's not an improvement where it counts.

Does it take half a decade to turn a team into a contender? Kubiak has had 4 years and has his personnel on the field.

This is year 4. Kubiak has had 3 years, and 5/8ths of a season. We are 5-5 with a manageable schedule and this team is playing very well overall.

Hervoyel
11-28-2009, 08:23 PM
Gary's just not the guy. I'm sorry because I like him, believe absolutely that he's trying as hard as he can, and really wanted the man to succeed. He's an excellent offensive coordinator but I haven't seen nearly enough growth as a head coach in him to make me think we'll be better off keeping him.

He's a white, offensive minded version of the Bengals Marvin Lewis and if you keep him for 7 years like the Bengals have kept Lewis he'll reward you with something very much like Lewis's career .505 record.

This is where an aggressive owner would come in handy. This is when said aggressive owner would be talking behind the scenes with someone like Bill Cowher right now and be prepared to cut the kind of check it would take it bring him here. We know though that Bob McNair is so "honorable" that he wouldn't dare move that fast. That's why I'm ready for Kubiak in 2010.

DocBar
11-29-2009, 01:34 AM
I really don't care if Kubes was coaching poorly or scared. I care about W's. This is a pretty damned good football team that's taken some tough losses. There's not a single poster on this board or a single Texans fan that takes a loss harder than I do. IMHO, I'd like to see Kubes back next year. That way we can avoid all the 1st year coach, those are Kubiaks players not "pick a HC's" guys, et al ad nauseum BS. The Texans are on the cusp of being a great football team. We've had some bad plays called, bad fumbles, bad calls and bad luck go against us. Shit happens in the NFL. Kubiak is no Belichick, but Belichick wasn't Belichick before the NE stint. He was 36-44 as the HC of Cleveland. I say we stay the course with Kubes for at least another year. I bet Cleveland wishes they still had Belichick. I know he resigned as HC and wasn't fired, so don't get all crazy about that.

houstonspartan
11-29-2009, 01:57 AM
I really don't care if Kubes was coaching poorly or scared. I care about W's. This is a pretty damned good football team that's taken some tough losses. There's not a single poster on this board or a single Texans fan that takes a loss harder than I do. IMHO, I'd like to see Kubes back next year. That way we can avoid all the 1st year coach, those are Kubiaks players not "pick a HC's" guys, et al ad nauseum BS. The Texans are on the cusp of being a great football team. We've had some bad plays called, bad fumbles, bad calls and bad luck go against us. Shit happens in the NFL. Kubiak is no Belichick, but Belichick wasn't Belichick before the NE stint. He was 36-44 as the HC of Cleveland. I say we stay the course with Kubes for at least another year. I bet Cleveland wishes they still had Belichick. I know he resigned as HC and wasn't fired, so don't get all crazy about that.

Sorry, bro, but I reject that line of thinking. It's like people who say that the Astros should have kept Brad Lidge because he would have won us a ring like he did in Philly.

It's specious logic. It looks good on the surface, but at the core it doesn't make sense. Bellicheck became Bellicheck AFTER he left Cleveland. It happened for a reason, and he likely would have been fired anyway. Sometimes, change is what what it takes. There are no guarantees that Bellicheck would have had the same success in Cleveland that he has had in Boston. To assume so is faulty thinking (and irrelevant).

I'm not necessarily advocating firing Gary. But what I am saying is that we have a top notch qb, and something is missing. We need to look at all aspects of the organization - including the coaching staff.

DocBar
11-29-2009, 02:31 AM
Sorry, bro, but I reject that line of thinking. It's like people who say that the Astros should have kept Brad Lidge because he would have won us a ring like he did in Philly.

It's specious logic. It looks good on the surface, but at the core it doesn't make sense. Bellicheck became Bellicheck AFTER he left Cleveland. It happened for a reason, and he likely would have been fired anyway. Sometimes, change is what what it takes. There are no guarantees that Bellicheck would have had the same success in Cleveland that he has had in Boston. To assume so is faulty thinking (and irrelevant).

I'm not necessarily advocating firing Gary. But what I am saying is that we have a top notch qb, and something is missing. We need to look at all aspects of the organization - including the coaching staff.So an MLB closer who can't get Pujols out equates to an NFL head coach who has had his share of bad calls(by him) and just plain bad luck? Talk about specious logic. I'm not on the "put Kubiak in the HOF" bandwagon, I just think the team we see (mostly) blossoming before us would be better served by keeping the coaching staff intact rather than starting over with a new HC. We have a good team that could be great. Coaching changes, by their very nature, are very disruptive to the team. Why not stick with Kubes one more year. Not changing coaches every five minutes has served the best teams in this league very well. The perennial cellar dwellers change coaches like underwear. Is that specious logic? Ask the Bills, Fins, Browns, Chiefs, Raiders, Rams, Bucs,'Skins, Cowboys, Jets and Lions fans. Then go ask the Steelers fans. The Steelers pick a coach and stand by him through thick and thin, believing they picked the right guy for the job. I think Kubiak deserves one more year to put us ovewr the top. Of course, that all could change with a dismal showing today against the Colts. :)

houstonspartan
11-29-2009, 12:30 PM
So an MLB closer who can't get Pujols out equates to an NFL head coach who has had his share of bad calls(by him) and just plain bad luck? Talk about specious logic. I'm not on the "put Kubiak in the HOF" bandwagon, I just think the team we see (mostly) blossoming before us would be better served by keeping the coaching staff intact rather than starting over with a new HC. We have a good team that could be great. Coaching changes, by their very nature, are very disruptive to the team. Why not stick with Kubes one more year. Not changing coaches every five minutes has served the best teams in this league very well. The perennial cellar dwellers change coaches like underwear. Is that specious logic? Ask the Bills, Fins, Browns, Chiefs, Raiders, Rams, Bucs,'Skins, Cowboys, Jets and Lions fans. Then go ask the Steelers fans. The Steelers pick a coach and stand by him through thick and thin, believing they picked the right guy for the job. I think Kubiak deserves one more year to put us ovewr the top. Of course, that all could change with a dismal showing today against the Colts. :)

Yes, my Brad Lidge analogy was appropriate. After Philly won the World Series, Astros fans were saying we should have kept him because he would have won us one. Quite a bit of people have said we shouldn't get rid of Kubiak because he might go on and be a great coach and win a ring someplace else. It's ridiculus.

I agree with you, though, that disrupting the staff could be a problem. That's where I'm torn. A new coach could disrupt the Matt/Andre/OD chemistry we have going.

Texecutioner
11-29-2009, 01:19 PM
So an MLB closer who can't get Pujols out equates to an NFL head coach who has had his share of bad calls(by him) and just plain bad luck? Talk about specious logic. I'm not on the "put Kubiak in the HOF" bandwagon, I just think the team we see (mostly) blossoming before us would be better served by keeping the coaching staff intact rather than starting over with a new HC. We have a good team that could be great. Coaching changes, by their very nature, are very disruptive to the team. Why not stick with Kubes one more year. Not changing coaches every five minutes has served the best teams in this league very well. The perennial cellar dwellers change coaches like underwear. Is that specious logic? Ask the Bills, Fins, Browns, Chiefs, Raiders, Rams, Bucs,'Skins, Cowboys, Jets and Lions fans. Then go ask the Steelers fans. The Steelers pick a coach and stand by him through thick and thin, believing they picked the right guy for the job. I think Kubiak deserves one more year to put us ovewr the top. Of course, that all could change with a dismal showing today against the Colts. :)

Gary Kubiak is an average HC. He still struggles with the same types of game management mistakes that he did in year one. He is way to stubborn for his own good and in year 4 he still doesn't know how to get his players fired up and playing with passion that I see even some losing teams play with.

I'm sick of mediocraty personally. That's all Kubes has proven that he can bring in 4 years. A team that has a ton of talent and can play well through stints, but then can have epic melt downs and loses a lot more close games than we win in crunch time situations. Good head coaches find ways to win those games more often than not. Another thing to mention is that Kubes was supposed to bring this great running game to Houston and we've had one good running team out of 4 years which was last season. Our defense has been total crap since he's been here including this year even though we have improved over the last few weeks. I don't see this team improving past 9-7 this year. That will be pretty much going 8-8 once again, while the Jags have made it to the playoffs during Kubiak's tenure with a team that didn't even really have that much talent and now they're 6-4 with a team that has a lot less talent than the Texans do in my opinion.

Mcnair should be all over Cowher and Holmgren right now.

houstonspartan
11-29-2009, 02:11 PM
Gary Kubiak is an average HC. He still struggles with the same types of game management mistakes that he did in year one. He is way to stubborn for his own good and in year 4 he still doesn't know how to get his players fired up and playing with passion that I see even some losing teams play with.

I'm sick of mediocraty personally. That's all Kubes has proven that he can bring in 4 years. A team that has a ton of talent and can play well through stints, but then can have epic melt downs and loses a lot more close games than we win in crunch time situations. Good head coaches find ways to win those games more often than not. Another thing to mention is that Kubes was supposed to bring this great running game to Houston and we've had one good running team out of 4 years which was last season. Our defense has been total crap since he's been here including this year even though we have improved over the last few weeks. I don't see this team improving past 9-7 this year. That will be pretty much going 8-8 once again, while the Jags have made it to the playoffs during Kubiak's tenure with a team that didn't even really have that much talent and now they're 6-4 with a team that has a lot less talent than the Texans do in my opinion.

Mcnair should be all over Cowher and Holmgren right now.


It's not just your opinion. It's almost a fact. Jacksonville doesn't have nearly the amount of talent we do. Somehow, though, they were able to sneak up on us and claim 2nd place. Ridiculus.

houstonspartan
11-29-2009, 02:19 PM
Uh, they just showed McNair in his suite. He was there with Prez Bush I, and everyone was laughing and smiling.

McNair was not. His arms were folded, and he was intense.

Anyone who thinks that Gary will automatically get another year is fooling themselves. McNair is not playing around.

Dread-Head
11-29-2009, 04:16 PM
Vugg it. Let him coach NOTHING. Fire his @$$!